This is the new, reliable me

Welcome to the world-famous board meeting for Brazen Careerist.

For those of you who have not been to a board meeting since I had a miscarriage in the board meeting, let me tell you, this one will not be so interesting. At least at a biological level.

What's interesting, maybe, is that there is always tension in the board meeting because who knows what I'll do next?

But I am trying to be on good behavior. I am trying to be a more reliable person. Not so much of a wild card. I just read this study that the five most career-limiting habits of smart people are:

1. Unreliable

2. “It’s not my job”

3. Procrastination

4. Resistance to change

5. Negative attitude

I think we each must know what ours is, because I knew right away that mine is unreliability. I have been sort of telling myself that I am so clever, bright, and witty that unreliable doesn't matter. But it does. I feel bad that so many people are reliably there for me and I'm a wild card. So I decide I'm starting to be reliable today. I am going to be dependable and well behaved in the meeting.

I can't sit still. Some people have to rock back and forth or use a squeeze thing. I have to think about something else and write it.

We review how our ideas at Brazen Careerist were too early and now the world is catching up. I think about how I am too far ahead about goats. Goat will be the new beef. Forget cheese. The melting pot of America will be filled with goat meat.

Ed says some very interesting things. I want to tell him, “I am listening! I think you're interesting!” But I know he sees that my notes cannot be anything related to what's going on in the room. Which is true.

I am writing a history of my life. I discover that I can chart the last ten years in interesting ways. For example, a bar chart of how many times I have moved each year shows two times every year for almost each of the last 20 years.

I write a note to myself to thank the Farmer for giving me and the kids a stable home. I love when the kids ask me if we have to move again and I say no.

Then I try writing the big thing that happened every year for the last 20 years. I see a pattern. Things get quiet and then I shake things up. I do startups that go great in LA, then I move to NYC where I have no life. I get a life then I have kids and have a nervous breakdown trying to be a stay-at-home mom. I pull things together in Madison and then I get a startup and a divorce. I get calmness at the farm and now . ..

And now what? I am trying to shake things up again, but I think I waver. I'm not sure how much I want to shake. I know I will end up shaking a lot, though, because I already did something that is definitely a sign of a crazy entrepreneur: I spent camp money for my son on cheese inventory.

Ed says that startups are not small companies, they are experiments. You ask questions and try to find answers and as you know more you pivot more until you are asking and answering such sharp questions that you do begin to have a little company. That is the time when you grow so fast, or sell, and then you're no longer a startup.

So I think I need a new experiment. I get antsy when I am not asking questions. And the only question I'm asking now is, “How is Ryan Healy so good at startup life that he is running my company?” Really, he is such a hard worker and so reliable and smart that all I can think of is that someone better give me a lot of credit for knowing to pluck him out of IBM when he was 23.

Now Ed is talking about chairmanship. He wants someone to be chairman. Right now, Ed is everything: CEO, key investor, Chairman of the Board, career counselor to Penelope. He has a lot going on. But really he just doesn't want to be sued. I think that is what the problem is here. It's unclear, because Ed and Ryan and Erik are talking in some sort of nuanced, corporate speak, and I don't follow. I need things to be more direct.

Sometimes when the board meeting gets to this point, I get very distracted. Last time this happened, I made a chain of 50 paper airplanes. It was actually really lovely. I left it in Erik's conference room. He threw it away.

I don't do that anymore. I'm on good behavior since I'm not the CEO anymore. I think they can just get rid of me if I'm not useful.

Wait. This is a moment when I can be useful. They want me around to get you guys to use Brazen Careerist. But I think, right now, I have readers who are waiting to hear if Cullen and Melissa had sex yet—I'm not sure you care about Network Roulette.

But maybe I don't give you guys enough credit, so here's my pitch. Click here. To Brazen Careerist. And read about the New Lost Generation. And for every click from this page, Ed, Erik and Ryan will put up with one more paper airplane on the string. Also, here's a quote from Melissa, “Wow. There's a new site at Brazen Careerist, and it finally looks like a place people would want to go.”


67 replies
  1. M Green
    M Green says:

    You know, I find your blog very interesting, simply because you have found a way to make money but I really have no real sense of what it is that you do. I totally understand the notion of selling the sizzle and not the steak, but I’m not sure what the steak would be. But really I’m just jealous.

    • Teri Litorco
      Teri Litorco says:

      She gives advice. The wisdom she passes out (particularly wisdom that is either had through living or through the many studies she cites) is totally steak. To me, at least.

      • Irving Podolsky
        Irving Podolsky says:

        I don’t care WHAT Penelope does, as long as she continues the Cullen/Melissa saga. So DID they have sex? Was it in the barn? ‘Cause like, you’re now a pioneer Jewish mom living on a for-real farm, so you can now scribe a hide-in-the-hay story without making it up.

        Be sure to include your goat theme. And don’t forget the pictures.

        Your pal, Irv

      • vicky
        vicky says:

        Well who cares. Sex is sex. I think neurotypicals are interested in the ‘who/what/where/ of this because it gives them conversation ideas. I guess. I dunno tho.

      • chris Keller
        chris Keller says:

        Trivial factoid: The average # of times a college guy thinks of sex per day is 18. But there is some guy out there who thinks about sex 388 times a day (from the public radio show, What Do You Know, the Michael Feldman show, earlier today, May 28th) . . . Is that you, Irv? How do you get anything done?

      • vicky
        vicky says:

        quote: “But there is some guy out there… Is that you, Irv?”

        He is probably not so excited about the idea of the sex act happening somewhere, sometime, with some people, but just the idea of something that he can make a conversation about, with others…i.e. ‘small talk’. Could be the funny hat someone wore, the ‘strange’ hair style, what some movie star did/said, which movie star is pregnant/fat/unfashionable…the kind of stuff written about, to sell magazines at the check out counter. Meaningless, but it sells.

  2. Peter Raeth
    Peter Raeth says:

    You can achieve considerable success in your career. It is possible to overcome what most people call discrimination, accidents of birth, and late blooming as you continue down the path you prefer. But, you will find that it is not something to be done casually. There are no get-rich-quick schemes, no 90-day wonders, and no labor-free approaches to a successful career. If you want success, you have to reach for it. That reaching takes time and effort: a continuous cycle of studying, learning, working, and producing. In this personal enterprise, you will find great joy and solid employment opportunities. The CareerMentor website offers insights from a 35-year industrial career. You are welcome to make use of its free content (

  3. Lori
    Lori says:

    If they’re so great, why aren’t they using you and your talents in a strategic way? I’m clicking over…

  4. Elaine
    Elaine says:

    Do you think you are hesitant to shake things up because your kids are older now and more settled in school etc? I just wonder if you have any sense of what is giving you pause on this upswing (or downswing I suppose) of the cycle.

  5. Whitney Parker
    Whitney Parker says:

    Hey Penelope, thanks for the shout-out today. I personally wish we could find 20 more writers and influencers of your caliber — I am in such awe of what you’ve been able to do! =) Looking forward to following the story of your new goat cheese empire… sounds like such a fun and energizing project!

    • Penelope Trunk
      Penelope Trunk says:

      I disagree. I think most people who market themselves as career coaches are doing it from home. I mean, why would they work in an office outside the home when they have total control over their hours and they work via phone and email?

      Also, I am not impressed with the idea that you are either a stay at homer or a working person. I think the line is murky. I wrote about that here:


      • Erica Peters
        Erica Peters says:

        >>I am not impressed with the idea that you are either a stay at homer or a working person. I think the line is murky>>


  6. Bianca
    Bianca says:

    Goto the goat lady dairy farm website. They are great people who have walked the sustainable farm path. They have good stories, and do a great dinner on the farm a couple times a year. Maybe worth taking a look at how they have grown.
    Reading your blog always gives me hope about starting the “next” thing. Which i have several. The goat thing will be successful and you should get tons of credit for plucking him from IBM! Kudos! Putting people in place is the biggest challenge.

  7. Ciara Byrne
    Ciara Byrne says:

    Shaking things up is an essential part of who you are and what makes us all read you time after time and that will not change fundamentally. But that doesn’t mean that some part of your life can’t be stable. Decide that the farmer and the farm are the rocks on which you build your church (so to speak) and that will allow you to be even more radical in every other aspect of your life.

  8. Suzy McQ
    Suzy McQ says:

    I’ll be Chairman. As for believing that goat meat can be the old beef, forget it. Goats are small and cute and adorable……hmmmm sounds like veal. If the popularity of veal is increasing you may have a chance, but I think I’m like most people who don’t eat veal. We want to be humanely conscious, but love beef, so we ease our guilt by not eating veal and giving the cattle more time on this Earth before we eat them. Stick with the cheese……

    • Penelope Trunk
      Penelope Trunk says:

      Well, I’m sticking with cheese for now. But click the links about goat meat. It’s fascinating. Goat meat is not veal. Veal is baby goat, killed very early. Goat meat is from a more mature animal, and it’s the most widely eaten meat in the world. In most of the world, outside the US, people think beef has no taste compared to goat. And the US immigrant population drives huge demand for goat. So as immigrants increase, goat meat consumption will increase.


      • Brianna Chambers
        Brianna Chambers says:

        Awesome link on goat meat, Penelope! We are currently trying our hand at raising Boer goats. We are hoping the market trend stays the same. Right now we have put money in without seeing much in returns, but at the moment “The Sundry Homestead” IS a little farm with big DREAMS building on it.
        No – I haven’t eaten goat yet. We were going to try it recently, but the market for goats is pretty hot and we sold all of the goats quickly (everyone except our Boer breeding stock)and didn’t save one for us (don’t ask me why). My husband and neighbors like it though.
        I started reading your blog for career advice for my engineering day job and now I am loving the blogs about farming. You are an inspiration!

  9. Lynette Jensen
    Lynette Jensen says:

    Hello Penelope,
    I already joined Brazen Careerist because of your blog a while ago, and I’m sure very many of your readers have done the same thing. I clicked on the link though.

  10. Mark W.
    Mark W. says:

    I think this post should be listed under the ‘Asperger Syndrome’ headline (right-hand column) as something like ‘Why I have difficulties in meetings’. You give a good account of your experience here in this board meeting.

  11. Pete Michaud
    Pete Michaud says:

    I humored you, and I clicked, and I agree with Mel that the site looks better. But I still have no idea what it is. IS it LinkedIn for cool kids? That’s the best guess I could come up with, other than a glorified job board. I have no idea why I would sign up for BC or what it would do for me.

    • Brian Brandes
      Brian Brandes says:

      Yeah, I’m in the same boat as you. Brazen careerist is weird, I never got it, and never bothered to learn, although I signed up. To be honest, I found the process to go something like this:

      I register
      they instantly push me to do this network roulette thing
      I have no idea what I’m supposed to be doing in it
      I quit

      So, it’s like, unless you’ve already got an idea in your head that you want to pull on other people to do, I don’t see the point.

      • Megan Atkinson
        Megan Atkinson says:

        I joined Brazen Careerist a while back… maybe a year ago? I forget. Either way, it’s a fantastic resource. I would equate it to Facebook for smart people who have worthwhile stuff to say. People share ideas, share feedback, ask questions, and everyone is always adding value.

        I’ve made so many great contacts along the way. In fact, Network Roulette pretty much changed my life forever – as cheesy as that may sound, it’s true.

  12. Peter
    Peter says:

    It’s annoying when you use “interesting” as an all-purpose adjective so many times that it has no meaning.

  13. Tina Winslow Hudson
    Tina Winslow Hudson says:


    Longtime reader, sometimes commenter.
    I joined Brazen Careerist based on your blog originally.

    I am just a touch older than the target market that Brazen Careerist is going for. And I know Gen Y and the Lost Gen are hitting the job market and career issues that I recognize but I don’t see a way to interact with them in a way that will be helpful on the site.

    I like your writing cause you cut to the issue. And I think Brazen Careerist was/is helping those generations navigate in the market place better.

    What I would love is a way to share parts of the journey with those younger in a mentoring way. For example, I loved your post on having no money in a start up. It was the first time ANYONE that I had read, said “you can be professional, talk about money and the stressors of start-up life” and still have a good product/successful company.” Before that it seemed like if you admitted anything you were in the minor leagues.

    I guess this is me wishing there was an area on Brazen Careerist like “ask an old Gen Xer” about business where we could mentor up the youngins a bit. Some of the things in business are impassable and some are just roadblocks, others are even movable but knowing the difference has helped. I think it would broaden the base of Brazen Careerist cause you could pull in us older Gen Xers and get more chit chat going in a community-based way.

    Just a thought. Have a goat-filled day and keep kickin ass.


    • Megan Atkinson
      Megan Atkinson says:


      BC users can create new groups themselves. Although many members are Gen Yers, there are lots of people in other generational groups that are extremely present in the feeds. I can only speak for myself, but I think an “Ask an old Gen Xer” group would be a very welcomed addition!

    • Prime
      Prime says:

      Hi Tina, i agree with you on that. That’s why im a bit hesitant to join BC because it’s a Gen Y thing. I’m a gen-Xer so unless Gen Yers need some advice from the more, ah, “senior” generation, I don’t think I can contribute much to the discussion

  14. Jana
    Jana says:

    I think we all have a bit of this genius in our life. How dull and boring life would be without it. I love reading your blog.

  15. lb
    lb says:

    So glad your comments are set off by italics AND color again (the blue was prettier, though).

    I always skip past the random natterings directly to Penelope’s genius comments.


  16. LIsa Chandler
    LIsa Chandler says:

    Hi Penelope-
    When you had the book giveaway, you said you would send me one for my baby that was not yet born (she is now 3 months old). And you did send the book. It took a while. I figured…hmmm..Penelope isn’t going to follow through and I am going to lose a little respect for her but sure enough one day I came home and found an envelope with “Duck at the Door”. I wrote a post about it:
    The book was even wrapped in a yellow ribbon. See. You are more reliable than you think.

    • Penelope Trunk
      Penelope Trunk says:

      Oh. That means a lot to me, LIsa. And I can’t believe I missed seeing your post! I like to think that I obsessively track mentions of my own name in other peoples’ blogs.

      Anyway, the book giveaway thing was really hard for me. I was so upset with myself for taking so long. But it felt really good to send the books. I loved doing it.

      Also, this seems like a good time to say that I got some totally adorable thank you notes from the girls I sent books to. It made me love the world, and it made me more diligent about having my own kids write thank you notes.


  17. Paul Hassing
    Paul Hassing says:

    I think you’d get a lot more action if you appended a photo(and perhaps a schematic, plus folding instructions) of one of your paper planes. That’d certainly do it for me. :)

    There are several designs around and I can’t visualise which sort you make. How fun if it went viral and planes began to be made in board rooms across the world! :)

  18. vicky
    vicky says:

    I’m confused about the baby goat thing. Goat dairies kill the male goats, cause they aren’t worth anything. So your new business is: picking up baby goats, keeping them for awhile, and THEN killing them. Not that I disagree, but is that it?

    • Brad
      Brad says:

      Sadly, “goat sanctuary” rarely appears in the same sentence as “business model”.

      • Penelope Trunk
        Penelope Trunk says:

        I’m still thinking about what I’m doing. But here’s the problem. People who eat meat generally do not think it’s inhumane to kill animals to eat. People who eat meat think it’s inhumane to treat animals inhumanely.

        For example, there are lots of standards for how to raise cattle and how to kill them. Temple Grandin has devoted her life to figuring out how to kill cattle in ways that do not scare or torture them. The idea that animals should have good lives before they die is a pretty universal idea. And the idea that it’s okay to kill animals for food is a universal idea among people who eat animals.

        So, this leaves us with the question of what is humane treatment. I think we can all agree that it is inhumane to have a whole industry — goat cheese — that considers 1/2 of all animals in the industry to be waste byproduct. That is simply not a humane way to live on earth. And I think we can all agree that drowning a baby animal or banging on the head with a hammer till the skull breaks is also not a humane way to treat animals. Especially if you are not planning to eat the animal.

        This is actually all stuff I graple with. And I’ve been waiting to write a post about it. But the comments always feel safer. Like, I can try this idea out on the group of you who reads the comments carefully and see what you think…


      • Tzipporah
        Tzipporah says:

        I think the goat cheese thing has a lot of potential. It targets the same audience that stopped eat non-organic grapes because they were concerned about how pesticides affected the workers and their children, rather than how they affected consumers.

  19. Jennifer
    Jennifer says:

    Goat meat could be the new great thing! I saw a story about a restaurant in Chicago, “Girl & the Goat,” that is apparently doing fabulous business. I’ve never had goat meat, but I guess people love it!

  20. Jessica
    Jessica says:

    It’s interesting how much our perspectives change when we’re in different roles. I took the StrengthsFinder test two years ago when I was in a difficult work environment, dealing with managers who weren’t thrilled to have me, and then again last month as part of a full-time MBA leadership class. Some of the results were the same, but the ones that weren’t were clearly driven by the change in my environment.

    On to my main point: I’ve looked at Brazen Careerist a few times over the years. When I was in my previous role I thought of myself as a young career professional and needed to find new opportunity; I thought Brazen Careerist was a great idea, and something I’d join once I figured out what I wanted to do. (I realize now that participating would probably have helped me figure out a new direction, but that’s another story.) I clicked through again yesterday at your request, tried to browse around, but just thought… eh. I know you’re not a fan of MBA programs, but I’m at a top-tier school with truly amazing networking/job opportunity and I don’t need a resource like BC. I probably never will again – instead, I truly think that most of my career shifts/advancements/transitions/etc. will come about due to the network I’ll building now and will in the future as a result of this stepping stone.

    So I’m wondering who your target market is for Brazen Careerist. My guess is young people 2-3 years out of undergrad who are building a professional reputation and figuring out what they want to do. Maybe also slightly older professionals with 3-5 years of work experience who are trying to figure out what they want to do next. But I don’t think it would be helpful for anyone beyond that stage of their professional life. What do you think?

    Oh, and here’s an article I thought you might find interesting. The part that interested me most was the role of “outlaws” in an organization.

  21. chris Keller
    chris Keller says:

    Penelope, I have been pondering the notion of shaking things up v reliability for ages. I know so many people who need to shake things up, especially the person in my mirror.

    I think those of us who find ourselves shaking things up and not embracing the status quo (stability) are the people who are moving the world/our world forward. We cannot stand still. We become bored. We love novelty. We are restless and longing types. No shame in any of this. I like myself (and you) the way we are.

    To me you are like Lady Gaga, who is naturally outrageous, and true-blue at the same time. Gaga is always coming up with a new song/entrance/outfit/look.

    Why should you become more “reliable”? The only reason to do so is as you say: the kids. Also, you are now in an agricultural mode. Reading the Curious Farmer blog, I see once again (I married into a farming family way back, too) that you are tied to the land, patient because growth happens slowly. And the routines are everything. All you do, really, is tweak the routines according to the weather and the cycles of planting this or that and harvesting. When you are NOT stirring things up, you are at peace with slow-growth . . .

  22. yallafinance
    yallafinance says:

    ASSAD THREATENS QATARI INVESTMENTS IN SYRIA-There is no such things that might happen if you know what you are doing. Threatens will not affect you if you already completely plan what you want to do and how it will help the country you are handling with.

  23. davednh
    davednh says:

    Careerist is much better – clear and seems to have a point. In the past it was a bit unfocused and hard to picture how to monetize it. You should probably write a guest blog from time to time as you do with others.

  24. Eric
    Eric says:

    Some people simply have an innate need for “drama” in their life. They can’t stand boredom. It seems to be worse for ADD prone people. It can cause a lot of personal distress but seems to feed creativity too. Kind of a mixed “blessing.”

    • Viviann
      Viviann says:

      Regarding the comment about ADD prone people needing more drama in their lives, my question is, do THEY perceive of it as drama like you do?

  25. Laura-F
    Laura-F says:

    Well, I joined Brazen Careerist because of reading this blog, and I keep reading this blog, even though I doubt I’m the market since I’ve been unemployed for the two years since I left university and nobody could call me a young professional; I don’t have a job and feel like nobody will ever give me a chance now, and money is getting desperate. I read the blog because it feels like something that helps me see my way a little in the midst of being very, very lost, and I read Brazen Careerist because it’s really interesting seeing how other people are doing things, and you never know; I might get the chance to put some of it into practice someday. Call it research.

    • Viviann
      Viviann says:

      Back in the early 1970s when I was in my first year of university in Canada the employment situation in was horrible. Even as a high school student the best I could find was washing dishes in a senior rest home, babysit, do sewing machine demos in stores and play my very poor performances on an organ in church once a month. I had to live at home and just counted the days when I could leave. I earned enough money (About $400) to buy a one way ticket to France on a charter flight. I was employed as an au pair girl for 13 mos.
      With internet, our opportunities have increased in a very great way. Be patient. have confidence in learning what YOU are about and don’t let anyone get in your way of self-discovery.
      You have only x amount of time here. This is YOUR time. don’t let others steal it from you. Figure out what it is you need to do to not let yourself get down. :) Viviann

  26. Jani
    Jani says:

    You could turn yourself into a modern day, more colorful and outrageous, goat-focused version of Julia Child by getting into the goat meat industry while simultaneously blogging different goat meat recipes and/or cooking experiments.

  27. Tzipporah
    Tzipporah says:

    I think I’m too old for Brazen Careerist. I clicked over and read a few pieces, but they seem, very, well, young. And “OMG things you thought are actually false.” But they’re things that everyone (?) already knows are false.

    Maybe they just need better content.

  28. Davers 6
    Davers 6 says:

    You’ve made a MAJOR assumption about “immigrants eating goat meat”.

    Have you any actual data to support that assumption? MOST of America’s ‘immigrants’ are undocumented Mexicans and other Latinos, who have LONGED for beef and once here they can get LOTS of it.

    Goat-eating immigrants tend to be Arab and Mediteranean (Sicily; Greece; etc.) where large acreage of grazing land is quite rare, so the beef is mostly imported and very costly. But the NUMBER of immigrants from these places dwarfs the numbers of Mexicans and other Latinos. By the way, all SECOND generation immigrants are VERY Americanized, so buh-bye goats with the kids of these recent arrivals!

    Not to be impertinent, but how many first generation immigrants who have been here for LESS than 10 years do YOU actually know well? How long and deep was the last conversation YOU had with a first generation immigrant who has been here less than 10 years?

    Please forgive my bluntness (you clearly have ADHD; I have bluntness syndrome) but …you exhibit a common J.A.P. assumption of “all knowingness” on this goat thing. Maybe get out in the world beyond Madison and conduct 25 one-on-one conversations with recently arrived first generation immigrants – and of necessity, these ‘conversations’ MUST be in THEIR native tongue so they can be very textured and granular in their dialogue. I think you’ll be quite shocked by what your assumed target (= immigrants) tell you versus your current assumptions.

    I’ve posted this NOT to offend, but to save you a great deal of time and possibly money as well, because:

    a) IF there really are lots of goat-loving immigrants, then …

    b) Why haven’t THEY become goat moguls in America ALREADY? Maybe it’s because they are sooooo grateful to be in the land of beef after all those years!

    You’ll never know until you ask them, instead of assuming it.

    • vicky
      vicky says:

      I agree with the jist of your post, but…sadly, in the part of the world I am in (east of Vancouver, BC, Canada) some people buy (or steal) baby goats, and kill them in their back yard, with neighbours listening. This is very near a city, or maybe in the city. It is ‘blamed’ on culture, or religion, or whatever.

  29. Virginia
    Virginia says:

    Goat meat is the most widely consumed meat protein in the world. Lots of Mexicans and other latin americans love goat meat, they are the largest buyers in the US. Asians, mid easterns as well as east europeans all come in after them in consumption. I have been working with goats for 40 years. I’m a white american (descended from the revolution) and we bbq’d a goat for my wedding back in 1978. Hamburger doesn’t come from McDonalds and goats are not eaten only by mid easterners. I have lived all over the world and worked in agrarian environments and cities. Everyone likes goats for fiber, milk and meat.

    I am a fibre goat herder and just moved back to the US from living in New Zealand/Australia for 15 years. They eat lots of goats and lambs down there, in Australia too. I was an immigrant while living there. What does being an immigrant have to do with goat meat? Are you stereotyping or working on facts? By the way, most farmers/ranchers are not moguls. Do you read newspapers or current events? Farmers are barely getting by, mostly by borrowing against their property for operating capital, only to pay back their profits as interest and borrow for the next year. Its always been like that. Subsidies and real estate made a few people rich but that’s politics.

    All you have to do is google it and you can find the statistics. Why does a person have to be called ADHD just because they know about goat meat? You don’t have bluntness syndrome, you are ignorent. Look it up.

    • Virginia
      Virginia says:

      Let me restate that last comment.

      Veal is the meat of calves who are not yet weaned ie: still drinking milk.


  30. Sasana
    Sasana says:

    I’d like to join Brazen Careerist, but it says it’s for ambitious young professionals, and I am 40. Am I too old?

  31. My-Tien
    My-Tien says:

    definitely self improvement never hurts especially other areas of our life is benefiting from it. Ditto on #3 and #4 for me.

  32. Joselle Palacios
    Joselle Palacios says:

    To the commenter that said they stick with cheese and steak and eschew veal for ethical reasons: if you eat dairy, you make the veal industry possible. The veal industry is simply a by-product of the dairy industry. Veal is an afterthought, a waste product, if you will. The dairy industry has no use for male calves so they become veal. Female calves become dairy cows. When they are done being impregnated, having babies, having their babies taken away and then done producing milk, dairy cows are killed. There’s no such thing as humane cheese or milk and I’d like to see you try, Penelope. What are you going to do with the babies you don’t need? How will you have room on the farm? Or will you just outsource the slaughter? If so, how can you ensure that they won’t be killed with hammers to the head? What will you do with the female goats when they are done producing milk, which won’t take much longer than a few years? Do you keep them? Or do they get slaughtered elsewhere and how do you ensure their treatment at that point?

    It’s actually much more humane to eat steak than to eat cheese. Cattle’s lives are better than the lives of dairy cows. No farmed animals suffer quite as much as dairy cows and goats and sheep used for milk production.

    I know there are parts of the world that are inhospitable to plant-based agriculture and I don’t expect the whole world to be vegan. But given these facts about both small-scale and factory farming, the deeply fulfilling relationship I’ve had with animals in my life, the fact that I have thrived for years without eating any animals or their secretions, and that I am privileged to live in the US and have access to a variety of nutritious plant-based foods, I choose to be vegan. It helps me to avoid the mental gymnastics one must go through to eat “humanely.” I respect people who just don’t care and eat factory farmed meat more than the humane police who break their arms patting themselves on the back for purchasing $50 per pound grass fed beef at Whole Foods!

  33. Sue
    Sue says:

    Goat meat is not to everyone’s liking but it is certainly healthier for you then cattle meat. I like it. It has to be cooked correctly to hind the taste which is different and takes getting use to.

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