
This is the big test. Right here. This is the test to see if you will stick with me even when you know everything. There is lameness about me. Not the lameness commenters point out. Not like, I don't know anything about graduate school. Or I'm not fair to David Dellifield. No. It's more fundamental than that.
I want you to recall that when I was growing up, the police came to our house pretty frequently. (And, in fact, to our hotel rooms. And you might be interested to know that when rich people trash a hotel room they do not get thrown out of the hotel. But rather, the kids get their own hotel room.) Every time, my dad would tell them that I was fine, that it was only a spanking, that I was exaggerating. He would tell them I have a behavioral problem.
He wasn't covering anything up as much as expressing how my parents were actually convinced that I was a psychopath. I was the one who went to a psychiatrist my whole childhood. They even had me tested at Northwestern's neurology lab. But at the same time, my parents were doing things like getting angry enough to leave me as in Arlington Heights, alone on a street corner, while they drove back to Wilmette. (Google Map that: Not good parenting. Probably illegal today.)
Okay. So fast forward to my marriage now, to the Farmer. The odds are that I would be with a man who treats me like my dad did, right? So it should not surprise you that the Farmer pushed me so hard that I fell on the floor. In front of my six-year-old son.
The Farmer would tell you why it's my fault, and how I deserve it, and that I made him do it. If there were a neurology lab in rural Wisconsin he'd probably send me there because he has told me numerous times, most recently right after he apologized for pushing me, again, that I am emotionally abusive to him.
Two nights ago, I got really scared. He had already pushed me and shoved me and grabbed me and crushed my foot in a door. He would say that I deserved it. That I say crazy things to him. That I never leave him alone. That I am an awful person to live with. For the record.
He had me in a corner, and I was crying and I was scared, and he was telling me how I am a terrible mom, he was saying my youngest son is going to grow up and hit me. So I dialed a number that I thought was a friend, but it was my stepmom, the woman married to my dad
She is totally cool. My dad has very good taste and I really like this stepmom. And she was great to talk to. I can't complain about one thing she said.
She says, of course, that I am a good mom. And of course, I do not believe her. Someone raised by abusive parents never feels secure in their parenting because they don't understand what makes kids love parents. So that's my weak spot. Even if I were a great parent, I'd never believe it.
And of course, she said I need to leave.
I was silent.
Then she suggests sending my dad to come see me. For support. I say okay. Because I can't say no to support. And, you know what? I can't say no to my dad. I just want to be loved. He tries really hard. I forgive every transgression, even as his transgressions are huge. Just go read that post. I can't even bear to write about them again. I can't because I want to have a dad who loves me in a real way.
I want to have a dad who comes and rescues me when I have a husband who is physically violent.
So my dad drives two hours to see me. He gets here for dinner. I told him not to come any earlier because it's Sunday, the day my Ex comes to hang out at the house with my sons, and it's the only day all week that I don't have kids, so I have to work that day.
Our dinner features my act of childish passive-aggressiveness: I make sure there is no meat in the meal because the Farmer really wants meat in the meal every time.
Maybe that is what he means when he tells me I'm emotionally abusive.
I am alone in the kitchen getting dinner ready. I tell myself not to feel sorry for myself. I tell myself it gets me nowhere. I tell myself that I if I can fix this situation, I will be really good at helping other people to fix their lives.
My dad comes up to me in the kitchen. I am startled.
I tell him I really appreciate that he came, that it makes me feel less alone.
He tells me he wants to help. He tells me he researched women's shelters in my area.
"Dad. Women's shelter? Did you say women's shelter?"
"Yes. I was thinking you could go to one."
"I can't go to a women's shelter, Dad. It's rural America. A women's shelter, here?"
I am speechless. I am trying to figure out something to say to him about why I cannot show up to one of those, kids in tow.
"Dad. I'm famous. I've signed autographs in grocery stores."
He said, "Oh. You are?"
I decide we are done. I fluff the bean salad and tell myself he is trying to be helpful.
The Farmer says grace. He needs to thank God before every meal. He wanted to say Jesus also, but we compromised with just God. So he says that. And as he thanks God for this meal, I put my head down and wonder if not allowing him to thank Jesus is emotionally abusive.
The kids eat and run.
And there I am, alone. With the three men in my life.
My dad talks about his stamp collection. There was an auction in Iowa. He was thinking of going, but all the stamps he wanted were too expensive.
The Ex says he had a stamp collection, too. His parents just sent it to him. They are cleaning out their closets.
The Farmer says he had a stamp collection too.
We talk about plate blocks, post card values, and pros and cons of hinges. The hinges are difficult. You never know if it's better to attach the stamps for security, or if the attachment is so damaging that you risk losing the stamp.




I'm sorry things are so bad. Take care of yourself and your sons.
Posted by jim on September 27, 2011 at 11:39 am | permalink |
We all have lameness — huge things we hide about our lives that we're afraid of others knowing. It's not lame to be a victim — it's the perpetrator's fault, not yours. You need to start over somewhere new, somewhere safe. Go. Take care of yourself and your boys.
Posted by Ann on September 27, 2011 at 11:49 am | permalink |
Penelope:
I have never commented on your blog but this post finally got me to break the silence to say something that many more people will say to you, I'm sure:
He has already shoved you, pushed you, grabbed you and crushed your foot in the door and he has been throwing verbal/emotional abuse at you. And he will keep doing it – the violence will keep escalating.
I know it is easier said than done because it is never easy to leave. Deep down inside, we always tell ourselves that things will get better, that it's just a problem that can be worked through etc.
The reality is: the abuse is not going to stop.
Please please please get out and accept help before it is too late.
If not for your sake, then for the sake of your sons.
Posted by A Concerned Reader on September 27, 2011 at 11:52 am | permalink |
I'd like to echo the above post.
Do what you usually do: read up on things. Read about how abusive people brain wash their victims by taking small steps at a time, convincing the victim that it's their own fault all the time. Read about how the violence escalates and how the victim adjusts into thinking that it's normal. Once you've come that far in the story, there's usually two versions: the "happy" ending where the victim takes her (it's usually a her, but sometimes it's a he) stuff and leaves. The other ending is where the victim eventually dies.
Posted by Sam on September 27, 2011 at 12:37 pm | permalink |
Penelope, I know that the two comments above may sound simplistic, but they do contain an important truth. I was in an emotionally abusive relationship for three years, and it is only now, after 2 years of no contact that I can see how much I let my ex "inside my head" and how deluded my optimism that things would get better really was. That really is the problem here: when you are in these situations, you cannot see clearly. Getting away temporarily (staying with a friend) can only give you clarity if you cut off contact with the Farmer and use the time to really honor YOU, that is, the you before the Farmer.
I can't help but think that you at least subconsciously knew that posting this would yield hundreds of "Leave right now" comments. It seems as though you know what you need to do, but don't want to face it, because it involves uprooting your kids again and dealing with another ex-partner.
All I can say is that ending things with the Farmer and moving on does not make you a failure. A failure rationalizes their mistakes and lives out a miserable life, telling herself that it is ok, because the kids like him, or she likes the farm, or she just doesn't want to be alone. Sounds a lot like the deluded thinking of graduate students, in my humble opinion.
Posted by Nicole on September 28, 2011 at 8:14 pm | permalink |
I hope you're ok now. I hope you're going to be ok.
Posted by J on September 27, 2011 at 11:53 am | permalink |
You are not Alone Penelope. I'll stick with you.
Great to see you!
Posted by Bill on September 27, 2011 at 11:53 am | permalink |
I won't tell you what to do. I will only tell you that no matter how hard you are to live with, no one can "make" someone else hurt them. He is an adult with control over and responsibility for his actions (same reasoning: you can't beat your kids no matter how annoying they are).
More importantly, no matter how imperfect, you are a "good enough" mom, like every other mom I know. You love them, you hug them, you read to them. The rest is ok. No matter what, we all end up in therapy, so just cover the essentials. Taking good care of *yourself* is one of the essentials.
Wishing I lived close enough to meet you for tea.
Sending you good wishes/vibes/prayers.
Posted by brooklynchick on September 27, 2011 at 11:56 am | permalink |
Penelope, I'll stick with you. I wish you hadn't called your dad–from what you say, he is in no way qualified to be supportive; counterproductive it would seem. Isn't there anyone else? And I'm not qualified to send advice, but I do send you a big hug and I'm rooting for you.
Posted by Sally on September 27, 2011 at 11:57 am | permalink |
So, Penelope, what are you going to do? Talking about stamps, or anything else for that matter, is not 'doing'. What are you really going to 'do'?
Posted by Alex Dogliotti on September 27, 2011 at 11:57 am | permalink |
The stamps are an analogy.
Posted by Cathy0 on September 28, 2011 at 12:46 am | permalink |
I couldn't make it through all of the comments, but these are my thoughts. Some people like misery in their life and even though they are capable of leaving, avoiding , changing, and all together not having drama and problems in their life, they don't choose that. Maybe they like the attention, maybe they find a drama free life boring, maybe they don't know they have the ability to stop it if they wanted to. I don't know why but I see this trend over and over and it is usually women who have this problem. Secondly, as a Wisconsinite, I am offended that Penolope feels a Wisconsin women's shelter wouldn't be good enough for her and her problems. WI is not some dark, backwards place that won't understand an ex-New Yorker or Chicagoian who has signed autographs in a grocery store and if she can drive hours round trip for music lessons for her son, she surely can make it to a larger city and seek some councel or respite. I used to read this blog for it's career advise, now I think I might get hooked as a replacement for All My Children.
Posted by Go Pack Go on October 1, 2011 at 10:46 pm | permalink |
It is better to be on your own than with a person who does not treat you well.
You need to get out there!
Posted by Burcu on September 27, 2011 at 12:04 pm | permalink |
Just wanted to say that I'm thinking about you.
Posted by thirsty robot on September 27, 2011 at 12:05 pm | permalink |
This post makes me cry. Because I am the parent of a child with Aspergers. And he is abusive to me. Every. Single. Day. Verbally. Mentally. And sometimes physically. He exhausts me. I believe he would say the same things about me that you said of your parents. And sometimes I really, really want to leave him on a corner somewhere.
I worry that he will grow up and push someone just enough that they will want to shove him into a corner, too. Because I don't think you realize just how you guys come across to people…even to people who love you more than anybody else in the whole wide world. And how we keep forgiving you over and over…because we love you more than anybody else in the whole wide world. And how much we wonder why you treat us that way when we love you so much. And how much we put up with on a daily, sometimes hourly basis when we could run away and live in peace and quiet. But of course, it's because we love you more than anybody else in the whole wide world.
That doesn't make what we do any more right or okay. And I also realize that few will understand or offer sympathy to us…because nobody would believe what we live with on a daily basis. It's beyond most people's comprehension.
This post makes me cry. I feel so bad for you. I feel so bad for your husband. And I feel so bad for your children. Your brilliance – your Asperger's – makes you a very special and unique individual with so much to offer the world in so many ways. Just like my son. But it can also be so debilitating. And now, I have to wipe my eyes.. go wake up Boy Genius.. and start my groundhog day. Maybe we'll get through the morning with no arguments.
Posted by A sad mom this morning on September 27, 2011 at 12:05 pm | permalink |
I think this is the most valuable post so far. Every adult relationship has two persons with responsibility. A person with Asperger's obviously either doesn't know where the line is (which should not be crossed) or they deliberately push across it just to test the love of their partner or because they're unaware of it, or for some other reason. Based on earlier posts, it seems that Penelope and the Farmer need to learn to fight fair, perhaps agree on certain things which can never be said in anger, etc. and live by that agreement. No, the farmer can't hit, push, shove, etc. But Penelope isn't allowed to violate his space or say whatever she wants to sayâespecially if she knows it inflames the situation. Getting in someone's face, crowding their space in angerâthese are as agressive as pushing someone away to get them out of your space. Just because she didn't throw a punch doesn't mean she isn't as responsible. Both grownups have to be adults and responsible for their behaviors and language.
The only victims here are the kids because they don't have the resources/ability to take themselves out of the situation. Both Penelope and the Farmer can disengage. In fact, it seems that's what the Farmer tries to do to avoid the passion/anger. When you know that your partner is only abusive when pushed too far (as is everyoneâit's called self-defense), then you must acknowledge those limits and either accept and live with them or not. It's only abuse when the limits are not defined and physical agression occurs at any point of conflict. When agression only occurs after a certain point (certain language, certain physical violations, etc.), then it's not abuseâit's a consequence. There's a difference. The adults have choices (how to behave, whether to stay, etc.) The kids, unfortunately, are along for the ride.
The adults need to get themselves in line in order to protect the children. Disrupting these boys' lives (again) may or may not be the answer. Repeating this conflict cycle of angerâagressionâabuse is definitely unacceptable. Leaving the relationship doesn't necessarily end the cycle; it just ends it with this partner. Learning to end it for good would be an optimal achievement for Penelope, her sons and with whomever they share their lives.
Posted by Musikpro59 on September 27, 2011 at 1:22 pm | permalink |
This is so smart and wise, it makes me tear up. Blessings upon you. Always.
I was raised by people so crazy…
As an adult in therapy, in my 30's, I had to ask my therapist how I could tell when someone was being emotionally abusive. I got a list. Posted it to my frig.
I learned how to hit back physically. That came a lot faster than learning how to deal with emotional abuse. Good experiences learning martial arts, too.
At 64, I STILL don't know how to choose people who will not abuse me emotionally. I am a hermit, therefore.
I DO know how to hit back. For a long while, I even had the phone number of the person I punched in the balls, to validate my threat. I threatened people. Worked a charm for physical abuse. We were both so messed up we stayed with each other even after he messed with me physically three times and I hit him once. I was a LOT younger then.
Learning to fight fair AND getting someone who will learn with you sounds like a huge order. Particularly with Penelope's autism/Aspergers.
Penelope, honey, if/since you are reading this, backing someone into a corner when they are furiously angry is a BAD IDEA and sure to get you hit. One of the martial arts I learned emphasized "get out of the way", I learned it really well.
Since you write so well, have you tried writing to each other instead of talking/yelling when you are angry? Does it work?
There are things said that wound you emotionally. Yes? Do you know which things wound him emotionally? Do you know how to back off saying those things? Men, even large, strong men, get their feelings hurt, too, by the people they are close to.
Perhaps all your skill with words, not feelings, will help you figure out how to use those words to get to some kind of resolutions of those issues that hurt you both. This will improve your life all out of recognition. Not to mention possibly earn you a lot of money once you copyright it.
This is your task. If you choose to accept it and learn to do this, and your adorable boys observe and learn it, too, all of your lives will be improved now and in the future.
Get cracking, Pen!
Be sure to post your progress as you make it. We all want to learn, too.
Posted by Evy on September 27, 2011 at 5:05 pm | permalink |
What the……? "When aggression only occurs after a certain point, then it's not abuse — it's a consequence." Holy crap. Thousands of abused women would vehemently disagree with you here. I don't care if the woman is being "difficult" by the man's definition — a physically violent response is WRONG and is NOT HER FAULT. What year is this? My God.
Posted by Claudia on September 28, 2011 at 4:20 pm | permalink |
I agree. Physical abuse is physical abuse the who what and why doesn't matter. When people suffer from abuse they need to leave. If a person can be so affected by anothers words or actions that they have to resort to a physical response then it's over. The abuse began verbally and has escalated to physical. Run Penelope…..
Posted by Daisy on September 28, 2011 at 4:51 pm | permalink |
It has to do with power. The person in a violent* confrontation who has more power is the one who could be described as an abuser. Someone who has less power, but does the same things, may actually be fighting back in self defense, rather than abusing. It's honestly hard to tell from reading one side of the story where the power is. We tend to assume that men have more power than the women they are married to, because in general men are larger, heavier, stronger, and more powerful in society as well. And that may actually be the case in this situation. It seems more likely than the alternative, but it's hard to tell. Power is a funny thing. It has many aspects.
*Violence can come in many forms, too — including passive-aggressive.
Posted by Akw on September 28, 2011 at 6:56 pm | permalink |
We don't know anything about the context. Suppose someone is someone screaming in your face for an extended period, blocking your attempts to leave the room. Wouldn't almost anyone in that situation eventually be provoked into a shove? And if so, does that mean most people are abusers?
Posted by Brad on September 28, 2011 at 5:29 pm | permalink |
You never lay your hands on another human in violence to control them. You can always walk away or jump out a window or lock yourself in the bathroom or closet, or just sit there quietly ignoring them, because eventuallly, they will stop screaming at you. You never hit somebody.
And Brad, if the irrational person in your face yelling was a guy twice your size, you would find a way to run. You wouldn't hit the dude because he would beat your ass.
Posted by CSreport on September 29, 2011 at 2:22 pm | permalink |
I agree with this the correct, rational response. Probably the only response with any hope of defusing the confrontation. But in a highly charged emotional situation, it's a choice many, many people fail to make correctly. Does that make those people irredeemable and unworthy of staying with, no matter what?
Posted by Guest on September 29, 2011 at 6:57 pm | permalink |
Way to twist my point. First, I said shove, not hit. Even Penelope didn't say hit.
And I said the screamer is blocking me from leaving the room, or following me around the house. My choices are to run from my own house, or just sit and take it because eventually she will get tired? How many hours in an "eventually"?
But you've convinced me. The only worthy partners are those who submit. Penelope just hasn't yet found that special milquetoast.
Posted by Brad on September 30, 2011 at 7:48 am | permalink |
I don't consider understanding people and knowing how to appropriately react to diffuse a situation to be submissive behavior. Having innate wisdom does not make someone boring. If you're looking for interesting and exciting, I would hope the only place to find it wouldn't be in your next argument or fight.
Posted by CSreport on October 1, 2011 at 7:36 pm | permalink |
Well, if PT is screaming at the Farmer, chasing him around, why doesn't He just tell her to get out?
Posted by Killerwhale681 on October 3, 2011 at 1:38 pm | permalink |
I think this is the most valuable post so far. Every adult relationship has two persons with responsibility. A person with Asperger's obviously either doesn't know where the line is (which should not be crossed) or they deliberately push across it just to test the love of their partner or because they're unaware of it, or for some other reason. Based on earlier posts, it seems that Penelope and the Farmer need to learn to fight fair, perhaps agree on certain things which can never be said in anger, etc. and live by that agreement. No, the farmer can't hit, push, shove, etc. But Penelope isn't allowed to violate his space or say whatever she wants to sayâespecially if she knows it inflames the situation. Getting in someone's face, crowding their space in angerâthese are as agressive as pushing someone away to get them out of your space. Just because she didn't throw a punch doesn't mean she isn't as responsible. Both grownups have to be adults and responsible for their behaviors and language.
The only victims here are the kids because they don't have the resources/ability to take themselves out of the situation. Both Penelope and the Farmer can disengage. In fact, it seems that's what the Farmer tries to do to avoid the passion/anger. When you know that your partner is only abusive when pushed too far (as is everyoneâit's called self-defense), then you must acknowledge those limits and either accept and live with them or not. It's only abuse when the limits are not defined and physical agression occurs at any point of conflict. When agression only occurs after a certain point (certain language, certain physical violations, etc.), then it's not abuseâit's a consequence. There's a difference. The adults have choices (how to behave, whether to stay, etc.) The kids, unfortunately, are along for the ride.
The adults need to get themselves in line in order to protect the children. Disrupting these boys' lives (again) may or may not be the answer. Repeating this conflict cycle of angerâagressionâabuse is definitely unacceptable. Leaving the relationship doesn't necessarily end the cycle; it just ends it with this partner. Learning to end it for good would be an optimal achievement for Penelope, her sons and with whomever they share their lives.
Posted by Musikpro59 on September 27, 2011 at 1:22 pm | permalink |
Your post says so much. Take care and God be with you.
Posted by DL on September 27, 2011 at 3:38 pm | permalink |
Although I can empathize with many of the experiences this poster and others are talking about with regards to the difficulty of dealing with someone with Aspergers, I am also a little horrified.
First of all, every person is different. There is a spectrum. And Penelope is not the same person as anyone's son. We don't really know many details of Penelope's personality or what it's like to live with her, or how reasonable or unreasonable she is in context, in reality, at any given time. It's dangerous to generalize her with someone else just because they share a diagnosis.
And secondly, I can only hope that people are not realizing that the things they are writing sound they way they do. Are people really condoning domestic violence? It sounds like they are. What is the message here? The farmer loves her, and she's difficult to live with, so it's okay if maybe he hits her tomorrow? Because he loves her so much? Because he puts up with her?
What are we saying? Penelope, you do not deserve to be physically abused. I don't know why so many of your commenters seem to be saying otherwise. And never ever ever is someone's being difficult sufficient justification to shove them, corner them, and threaten them with further violence. Are we even talking about the same thing, here?
What he has done is not okay. How are there even so many women in these comments effectively condoning domestic violence?
Penelope, get out! You deserve better, no matter how imperfect you are. And your kids desperately need better modeling.
Posted by Inomhe on September 28, 2011 at 4:25 am | permalink |
Would you be willing to be more specific about what in these comments seems to be condoning domestic violence? I have read all the comments. I've read several comments in which readers shared their experiences with domestic violence, both as perpetrators and victims, but none that I interpreted as condoning it. I think it would help me to know which specific words and phrases seem that way to you.
Posted by Guest on September 28, 2011 at 4:39 am | permalink |
How about this quote from Joseann above: "Can you recall how you are with the farmer before he pushes you? How you
are before your "Asperger-preteen" throws a fit? You might realize that
they all go nuts because you are not there, YOU, yes. You are lost in
your mind reading comments and writing stories. You are abusing all of
them and their behaviour is a wake up call, for you, not to leave, but
to finally move in and straighten things out. If it was only the farmer,
I wouldn't care, but you have kids." I think this is unbelievably harsh and has the implications that Inomhe has alluding to. There are others above too.
Posted by Claudia on September 28, 2011 at 4:16 pm | permalink |
Claudia, I agree that the comment you're referencing could have the implications that Inomhe alluded to. It's pretty upsetting to read some of the derision that is being heaped on Penelope here.
Posted by Guest on September 29, 2011 at 6:50 pm | permalink |
Oh, there must be at least a hundred examples. Just to name one… the multiple people who have talked about how the farmer won't want to stay with her or shouldn't have to stay with her now that she has done something as unforgivable as going public with the information that he pushed her to the ground.
Where are our priorities? How is the unforgivable part refusing to keep the dirty secret of an abusive husband? These are not secrets that should be kept! I wish more women were strong enough to break the silence surrounding domestic violence, but I can see why they don't, when so many people will respond in such a twisted, damaging, screwed up way.
Horrifying. Horrifying. I would quote you more examples, provide whole huge lists, but I felt physically sick reading through comments yesterday, and I don't want to go back there. I can't emphasize enough how screwed up it is that so many people react to something like this the way they do. Stop blaming the victim, people. Domestic violence is wrong, end stop. No qualifications, no excuses. And please, no further battering of battered women. Penelope's a person, believe it or not, even though she's on the internet. Some of the things people are writing are insanely cruel.
Posted by Sasha on September 29, 2011 at 4:11 am | permalink |
I agree that is very important that people not be afraid to talk about domestic violence. It's really important that we not create an environment where we are blaming any victim of abuse; that we're not implying that he or she asked for it.
I do think that part of creating that safe space to talk is not automatically demonizing the person who was physically violent, and not automatically excusing the adult who is reporting it from any emotional violence, verbal violence, or even physical violence that he or she might have contributed to the situation.
How are we creating an environment for women to speak if we are ignoring the things they feel and know are part of the situation? How are we creating that environment if we are threatening to ostracize their loved one, and them, should they refuse to shun that person? How are we creating that environment if we refuse to see the difference between a person who has been pushed past his or her capacity to handle a stressful home situation and a habitually brutal abuser?
Acknowledging that both adults could have contributed to the situation, and could have chosen to do something different, is not the same as condoning violence. I'm definitely not saying that victims always have this part in escalating things. I'm not saying that Penelope did. I think we really can't say after reading a blog post. But those of us who have been there know that there is often nuance to the situation. Discussing that nuance is not the same thing as condoning violence.
Posted by Guest on September 29, 2011 at 6:36 pm | permalink |
I agree that is very important that people not be afraid to talk about domestic violence. It's really important that we not create an environment where we are blaming any victim of abuse; that we're not implying that he or she asked for it.
I do think that part of creating that safe space to talk is not automatically demonizing the person who was physically violent, and not automatically excusing the adult who is reporting it from any emotional violence, verbal violence, or even physical violence that he or she might have contributed to the situation.
How are we creating an environment for women to speak if we are ignoring the things they feel and know are part of the situation? How are we creating that environment if we are threatening to ostracize their loved one, and them, should they refuse to shun that person? How are we creating that environment if we refuse to see the difference between a person who has been pushed past his or her capacity to handle a stressful home situation and a habitually brutal abuser?
Acknowledging that both adults could have contributed to the situation, and could have chosen to do something different, is not the same as condoning violence. I'm definitely not saying that victims always have this part in escalating things. I'm not saying that Penelope did. I think we really can't say after reading a blog post. But those of us who have been there know that there is often nuance to the situation. Discussing that nuance is not the same thing as condoning violence.
Posted by Guest on September 29, 2011 at 6:36 pm | permalink |
Sad Mom, you allude to the movie Groundhog Day. That movie is about listening to what life is trying to teach you. Life will give you the opportunity to learn what you need to learn in order to move forward, and it will keep providing you opportunity after opportunity until you do learn what you need to learn. And either you learn or you stay stuck!
The question on a day-to-day basis is this: What is life trying to teach me?
When you keep getting into relationships that go wrong, what is it that life is trying to teach you?
Some of us just aren't cut out to meet the demands of husband/wife relationships. Is that wrong? Is that bad? To some extent the answers are all subjective: All real estate is local.
But if you refuse to accept life's lessons, if you refuse to listen to life and integrate and accept the knowledge life is trying to pound into your thick skull…you will wake up to the same day, day after day after day.
Posted by RC on September 28, 2011 at 1:48 pm | permalink |
Sad Mom, you allude to the movie Groundhog Day. That movie is about listening to what life is trying to teach you. Life will give you the opportunity to learn what you need to learn in order to move forward, and it will keep providing you opportunity after opportunity until you do learn what you need to learn. And either you learn or you stay stuck!
The question on a day-to-day basis is this: What is life trying to teach me?
When you keep getting into relationships that go wrong, what is it that life is trying to teach you?
Some of us just aren't cut out to meet the demands of husband/wife relationships. Is that wrong? Is that bad? To some extent the answers are all subjective: All real estate is local.
But if you refuse to accept life's lessons, if you refuse to listen to life and integrate and accept the knowledge life is trying to pound into your thick skull…you will wake up to the same day, day after day after day.
Posted by RC on September 28, 2011 at 1:48 pm | permalink |
Do you beat your child and sexually abuse him and break bones? Because that is what Penelope has said about her parents and if your child would say the same things about you… for god's sake please for the love of god tell people about it – something has to be done – because as horrible as facilities are for children taken from their parents it is much better than extreme physical and sexual abuse. Maybe you can visit him very often but if you are abusing him as a coping mechanism someone else needs to be taking care of him on a day to day basis.
Posted by Victoria on September 30, 2011 at 5:03 pm | permalink |
I'm sticking with you too. I was once with a partner who started to act violently towards me, and I left the first chance I had. It was one of the BEST decisions I ever made for myself. Just go. You will still be a famous talented writer and a wonderful, loved mom.
Posted by Ji Eun (Jamie) Lee on September 27, 2011 at 12:06 pm | permalink |
Dear Penelope
You've got real guts writing so openly. You'll make it.
The world can be a shitty place. Shitty things happen. My only daughter has a chromosome disorder which means we'll be taking care of her for the rest of our lives… and then what?
The less shitty people (that's YOU) need to stick together and help each other. If the farmer is in total denial that he has a problem then it odds are WAY against it. Let someone help.
warm regards
Mitch
Posted by Mitch on September 27, 2011 at 12:06 pm | permalink |
Penelope I feel for you and I can identify with your troubles.
Please be so good to yourself as to do the things that make you feel calm and sane and comfortable in your own skin. Please take your shit to people who can handle it and please let your children go to school for a while so you can get some space and please take some time out away from the farmer so that your head can have some space too. Old patterns may influence your thinking but that doesn't mean they are effective or right in the current situation.
"There are content days, and there are sad days. Each person is a master of his silence." – P217 ~ Ines of my Soul by Isabel Allende
Posted by Abi on September 27, 2011 at 12:09 pm | permalink |
Penelope I feel for you and I can identify with your troubles.
Please be so good to yourself as to do the things that make you feel calm and sane and comfortable in your own skin. Please take your shit to people who can handle it and please let your children go to school for a while so you can get some space and please take some time out away from the farmer so that your head can have some space too. Old patterns may influence your thinking but that doesn't mean they are effective or right in the current situation.
"There are content days, and there are sad days. Each person is a master of his silence." – P217 ~ Ines of my Soul by Isabel Allende
Posted by Abi on September 27, 2011 at 12:09 pm | permalink |
Penelope, this is my first comment on your blog but it has helped me a lot, so thanks for writing it. You are not "lame" for being in an abusive relationship. You don't deserve to be abused by your husband and there is nothing you could do to deserve it. A women's shelter for a short time on your way to a new apartment or staying with a friend could be ok. I volunteer at one in the rural south and it's very different than you'd expect, with privacy for each family staying there, a nice playroom for the kids. Regardless, your husband's treatment of you is going to get worse. You've done a really good thing by trying to stick it out, go to counseling, and make it work, but if your husband is being abusive, you're fighting that battle alone–he is only going to continue to use the relationship to exert power and control over you. You DESERVE to live in an environment where you feel safe, and you are an amazing, capable woman who I know can come up with a brilliant plan to get there. Hang in there. Sending love.
Posted by andrea on September 27, 2011 at 12:10 pm | permalink |
Penelope, this is my first comment on your blog but it has helped me a lot, so thanks for writing it. You are not "lame" for being in an abusive relationship. You don't deserve to be abused by your husband and there is nothing you could do to deserve it. A women's shelter for a short time on your way to a new apartment or staying with a friend could be ok. I volunteer at one in the rural south and it's very different than you'd expect, with privacy for each family staying there, a nice playroom for the kids. Regardless, your husband's treatment of you is going to get worse. You've done a really good thing by trying to stick it out, go to counseling, and make it work, but if your husband is being abusive, you're fighting that battle alone–he is only going to continue to use the relationship to exert power and control over you. You DESERVE to live in an environment where you feel safe, and you are an amazing, capable woman who I know can come up with a brilliant plan to get there. Hang in there. Sending love.
Posted by andrea on September 27, 2011 at 12:10 pm | permalink |
P, I'm reading your post and tears are running down my face. Just want to send big hugs to you. And a reminder that one of your many strengths is to find a way out and land on your feet. And there are a lot of people who care about you and who want to see you succeed. Now go visualize the future you want – for you and your children. And visualize what you need to do to get to that place.
And remember, no matter what "you may do to deserve it", it's never, ever, EVER ok to physically or verbally abuse another person.
P, get yourself out of that situation right now. Find a location with a good public school system that can provide your children with the help they need and resume blogging away. And then use your experiences as a lesson in resilience to us.
{{{HUGS}}}
Posted by Woodsedge on September 27, 2011 at 12:12 pm | permalink |
P, I'm reading your post and tears are running down my face. Just want to send big hugs to you. And a reminder that one of your many strengths is to find a way out and land on your feet. And there are a lot of people who care about you and who want to see you succeed. Now go visualize the future you want – for you and your children. And visualize what you need to do to get to that place.
And remember, no matter what "you may do to deserve it", it's never, ever, EVER ok to physically or verbally abuse another person.
P, get yourself out of that situation right now. Find a location with a good public school system that can provide your children with the help they need and resume blogging away. And then use your experiences as a lesson in resilience to us.
{{{HUGS}}}
Posted by Woodsedge on September 27, 2011 at 12:12 pm | permalink |
I have been reading your blog for quite some time now, but posting a comment for the first time. Couple of thoughts I wanted to share. One statement of fact before that, I am a 33 year old man, from India, married out of love, 11 years in marriage with one 4 year old daughter. I too had an abusive childhood â owing to my father who is schizophrenic whom my mother is married to for 40 years. I started reading your blog because I think I have Asperger's (never diagnosed or did anything, but just thought what you were describing was me).
- I had hit my wife day before yesterday, in front of our child. I am terribly ashamed about it. We had a very bad fight â started in the morning, then we made up, went out to a theme park, incidently has Happy in its name, had great fun, just before returning we fought again over something I thought was very silly. We kept up the verbal fight, silly issues kept multiplying and both of us were beyond rational limits. I vowed afterwards of never ever doing it.
- Reason why recounted above is â I love my wife, I know she loves me. We both love our daughter to bits. We inevitably make up â we did this time also, through IM. We are very happy together for 99% of the time. We both have our problems and we both know it. We both work on adjusting even after 11 years of marriage. We married early â we change as people as we grow up, our needs change, but both of us have problems with accepting that. We know all this.
- In India, especially where I am, divorce rate is probably less than 5%. We marry one person in our lifetime (trends are changing though). We stay for the sake of our kids. Some of above would have easily resulted in a divorce â that is the easy way out. I know it will be disaster for our child. We learn to adjust to each other more since we take out the other option altogether. It doesn't mean someone needs to tolerate abuse or write off their life since they made a mistake in marriage etc. But all the reason for above story is â if you are happy for 90% of the time and you know there is love on both sides, work out your problems between you. Make the effort for your children. Change if you have to.
I just wanted to say â I absolutely love your blog and want to see you happy. Hope everything works out for better.
Posted by Anon on September 27, 2011 at 12:17 pm | permalink |
I have been reading your blog for quite some time now, but posting a comment for the first time. Couple of thoughts I wanted to share. One statement of fact before that, I am a 33 year old man, from India, married out of love, 11 years in marriage with one 4 year old daughter. I too had an abusive childhood â owing to my father who is schizophrenic whom my mother is married to for 40 years. I started reading your blog because I think I have Asperger's (never diagnosed or did anything, but just thought what you were describing was me).
- I had hit my wife day before yesterday, in front of our child. I am terribly ashamed about it. We had a very bad fight â started in the morning, then we made up, went out to a theme park, incidently has Happy in its name, had great fun, just before returning we fought again over something I thought was very silly. We kept up the verbal fight, silly issues kept multiplying and both of us were beyond rational limits. I vowed afterwards of never ever doing it.
- Reason why recounted above is â I love my wife, I know she loves me. We both love our daughter to bits. We inevitably make up â we did this time also, through IM. We are very happy together for 99% of the time. We both have our problems and we both know it. We both work on adjusting even after 11 years of marriage. We married early â we change as people as we grow up, our needs change, but both of us have problems with accepting that. We know all this.
- In India, especially where I am, divorce rate is probably less than 5%. We marry one person in our lifetime (trends are changing though). We stay for the sake of our kids. Some of above would have easily resulted in a divorce â that is the easy way out. I know it will be disaster for our child. We learn to adjust to each other more since we take out the other option altogether. It doesn't mean someone needs to tolerate abuse or write off their life since they made a mistake in marriage etc. But all the reason for above story is â if you are happy for 90% of the time and you know there is love on both sides, work out your problems between you. Make the effort for your children. Change if you have to.
I just wanted to say â I absolutely love your blog and want to see you happy. Hope everything works out for better.
Posted by Anon on September 27, 2011 at 12:17 pm | permalink |
I wonder how your wife feels about the hitting. And what are you going to do when your daughter dates/marries a person that hits her as well..
But things are ok 90% of the time.. It's just that 10% that can kill you. Literally.
Because you're not stating that you're going to therapy or getting any help to stop hitting your wife. You're ashamed but you're not stopping.
BTW – PHYSICAL ABUSE ISN'T OK. EVER.
Posted by Evebad on September 27, 2011 at 12:31 pm | permalink |
Wait a second, he said he did it once. You don't know what he's doing to change.
"You're ashamed but you're not stopping."
Absolutely presumptive, especially for a comment from someone pouring his heart out.
Posted by Jed on September 27, 2011 at 5:07 pm | permalink |
I don't think I've ever read or even HEARD the side of the story when the spouse hits the other. I think we'd get a lot further if we did. Thanks for sharing.
Posted by Karelys Beltran on September 27, 2011 at 7:42 pm | permalink |
So what specific action is Anon willing to take to ACT ON his being ashamed to make sure that he never hits again? A responsible person will realize he needs to learn new skills to ensure that this never happens again. What if next time you feel the anger, you forget you are ashamed, and since you never learned new communication skills from a professional, it happens again? Anon, you seem like you want to do the right thing. I hope you take action instead of just hoping.
Posted by Jane BB on September 28, 2011 at 5:05 pm | permalink |
Jesus Christ. He crushed your foot in the door? Leave. This post has disturbed me. As someone who grew up with my mother's abusive boyfriends, this has really touched a nerve. Kids don't forget stuff like that. Especially when it happens to them, instead of the mother.
Posted by Kirsten on September 27, 2011 at 12:19 pm | permalink |
Jesus Christ. He crushed your foot in the door? Leave. This post has disturbed me. As someone who grew up with my mother's abusive boyfriends, this has really touched a nerve. Kids don't forget stuff like that. Especially when it happens to them, instead of the mother.
Posted by Kirsten on September 27, 2011 at 12:19 pm | permalink |
What Would Penelope Do? She'd advise that your situation is a calculation. You have the power to pay the price for this relationship, try an unconventional arrangement such as full days of avoiding each other or leaving. You're very smart: analyze & act. Trust your judgment. We do.
Posted by Lee on September 27, 2011 at 12:20 pm | permalink |
What Would Penelope Do? She'd advise that your situation is a calculation. You have the power to pay the price for this relationship, try an unconventional arrangement such as full days of avoiding each other or leaving. You're very smart: analyze & act. Trust your judgment. We do.
Posted by Lee on September 27, 2011 at 12:20 pm | permalink |
Hanging with you. What to do is up to you. You will most likely survive. The critical thing is that your boys are watching to see how you handle someone's treating you this way.
Posted by Zellie on September 27, 2011 at 12:21 pm | permalink |
Hanging with you. What to do is up to you. You will most likely survive. The critical thing is that your boys are watching to see how you handle someone's treating you this way.
Posted by Zellie on September 27, 2011 at 12:21 pm | permalink |
Only you can decide when enough is enough. I truly hope you decide before the choice is taken away from you. If you stay, he will continue to abuse you, in front of your children. Is this the life you believe you deserve? I don't believe it is.
Posted by Michele on September 27, 2011 at 12:22 pm | permalink |
Only you can decide when enough is enough. I truly hope you decide before the choice is taken away from you. If you stay, he will continue to abuse you, in front of your children. Is this the life you believe you deserve? I don't believe it is.
Posted by Michele on September 27, 2011 at 12:22 pm | permalink |
I do want to clarify – in case you read all your comments…no matter what you did…you are not a parent and your husband is not your child. I can't leave my child, no matter what he does to me. If your husband is scaring you and attacking you…you need to take your children and get out. Period.
Posted by A sad mom this morning on September 27, 2011 at 12:25 pm | permalink |
I do want to clarify – in case you read all your comments…no matter what you did…you are not a parent and your husband is not your child. I can't leave my child, no matter what he does to me. If your husband is scaring you and attacking you…you need to take your children and get out. Period.
Posted by A sad mom this morning on September 27, 2011 at 12:25 pm | permalink |
I'm sorry you're going through this. I agree with the commenter who said to stop home schooling your kids. They need a break from this and so do you. Whatever your feelings about the benefits of home schooling, the benefits of not being always in this environment will be greater.
I don't mean this next thing to sound harsh but you have a big platform here to tell others how to live. Has it occurred to you that some of your advice is so controversial because it's rooted in a wrong way of looking at the world? And that you can't see that because of the sorts of issues you describe here? I do think you're doing your readers a disservice with some of your advice to them. Perhaps just write about your life and stop advising? You are lacking the most fundamental credentials to do so, which are happiness and good choices in your own life and I fear that you are spreading advice that will not make others happy either and it's clear why. I say that with love and support.
Posted by Me on September 27, 2011 at 12:27 pm | permalink |
What way of looking at the world do you mean?
Posted by Sarah Nguyen on September 27, 2011 at 1:02 pm | permalink |
The way that Penelope looks at the world is not wrong, it's different. I'm going to try to resist crawling on top of a soapbox here with the Asperger's thing vs. neurotypical thing and just say that Penelope looks at the world with a very different perspective which is uncomfortable to people who do not look at the world with that perspective. It is very difficult to go out into a world with your unique perspective and say it out loud when deep inside of you you have always been told that it is wrong and that somehow becomes that you are wrong. I'm sorry you are uncomfortable with Penelope's perspective, but I hope that you don't contribute to the already jeering cacaphony in her head that tells her to just be a good quiet autistic girl. Penelope, keep at it. Yell as loud as you need to.
Posted by Katey Jane on September 27, 2011 at 1:21 pm | permalink |
The way that Penelope looks at the world is not wrong, it's different. I'm going to try to resist crawling on top of a soapbox here with the Asperger's thing vs. neurotypical thing and just say that Penelope looks at the world with a very different perspective which is uncomfortable to people who do not look at the world with that perspective. It is very difficult to go out into a world with your unique perspective and say it out loud when deep inside of you you have always been told that it is wrong and that somehow becomes that you are wrong. I'm sorry you are uncomfortable with Penelope's perspective, but I hope that you don't contribute to the already jeering cacaphony in her head that tells her to just be a good quiet autistic girl. Penelope, keep at it. Yell as loud as you need to.
Posted by Katey Jane on September 27, 2011 at 1:21 pm | permalink |
I'm not talking about her Aspergers. I'm talking about the fact that she doesn't know how to make herself happy, that she's in a relationship that sounds like it's emotionally abusive on both sides and physically abusive on one, that she doesn't know how to get out of situations that are bad for her and her husband and her boys, that she doesn't know how to handle conflict productively. She is great at many things but she's not someone who should be advising others on how to make good choices in their lives. Not right now, not while she's still dealing with the aftermath of an abusive childhood that has left her with a messed up worldview (which it has). Maybe later when she heals, but not now.
Posted by Me on September 27, 2011 at 2:19 pm | permalink |
I don't think anyone has suffered a disseervice from the advice in this blog. We all receive advice on how best to live our lives from multiple sources everyday. Everyone has to sort through that advice to determine how they want to live their life. Having a different, even controversial, perspective added to that mix is not detrimental–it is thought-provoking. She isn't making any decisions for anyone. Her advice can always be ignored or rejected.
Posted by Jennifer on September 27, 2011 at 3:14 pm | permalink |
I am surprised that of all the things you could say to someone in a horrible situation, THIS is what you thought she needed to hear today. Really? This? You are some friend. Let's just dismantle everything poor Penelope feels good about or clings to for stability. Penelope, stop reading these comments! Go talk to a professional and a good friend!
Posted by Claudia on September 28, 2011 at 4:41 pm | permalink |
I am surprised that of all the things you could say to someone in a horrible situation, THIS is what you thought she needed to hear today. Really? This? You are some friend. Let's just dismantle everything poor Penelope feels good about or clings to for stability. Penelope, stop reading these comments! Go talk to a professional and a good friend!
Posted by Claudia on September 28, 2011 at 4:41 pm | permalink |
I am surprised that of all the things you could say to someone in a horrible situation, THIS is what you thought she needed to hear today. Really? This? You are some friend. Let's just dismantle everything poor Penelope feels good about or clings to for stability. Penelope, stop reading these comments! Go talk to a professional and a good friend!
Posted by Claudia on September 28, 2011 at 4:41 pm | permalink |
pen doesn't tell people how to live. she shares a lot of fascinating research along with her own really distinctive take. she makes people think and re-think. they get to decide what they'll do with what she's shared.
Posted by Lori on September 28, 2011 at 8:38 pm | permalink |
Please leave now for your sake and for your kids. You are way too smart and talented to be in a situation like that. I have been reading your posts for years and this is the saddest one yet. I hope things get better for you. Woodsedge is right- it is never okay to physically or verbally abuse someone else.
Posted by CalJ on September 27, 2011 at 12:29 pm | permalink |
This is for the record.
I will stick with you for all the good things that you do and have done. That should come with no surprise to you. No matter how famous or well-known. The number one priority right now is to take care of yourself and your sons. However you decide to do it. That's my advice.
Posted by Mark Wiehenstroer on September 27, 2011 at 12:33 pm | permalink |
Penelope, you intrigue me. So I know you know that you cannot write a post like that and not be flooded with comments advising you about the dangers of an abusive relationship. The comments are sure to fill up with "take care of yourself" and "you need to get out" and "this is not healthy." Those statements, of course, are all well-intentioned and true, but I'm not sure they are what you are looking for. What are you looking for?
Posted by Amy Lynn Andrews on September 27, 2011 at 12:38 pm | permalink |
This is a good question – what am I looking for.
I write my life because I'm a writer. It's just what I do. I've been writing my life since before I could write — I would dictate stories of my life to my dad and he'd write them.
So I would write this down somewhere, even if I didn't have a blog. It's nice to have a blog though. I learn so much from my blog.
Some people say, in the comments section, that they're not sure if I read all the comments. I do. I adore the comments. I feel so lucky that people are willing to talk about what I want to talk about.
From yesterday's post, I learned the concept of visual literacy. Now that I know that term I will think better about how to steer my career. Today I will learn something about domestic violence. I will see it from other peoples' eyes. And from those comments I'll will make better decisions about how to steer my own life.
I hope that the comments help you guys in a similar way. I like to think we all learn together.
Penelope
Posted by Anonymous on September 27, 2011 at 2:15 pm | permalink |
My thoughts were very similar to Amy Lynn's. For most people, I'd say get out. But for you, I suspect you are emotionally abusive, and I suspect since you love your father you want to create that relationship again where ever you go. Maybe you should still leave. But most of all you should find some way not to love the men who hit you.
Posted by Amid Privilege on September 27, 2011 at 3:03 pm | permalink |
I agree with Lisa and have a couple thoughts to add. Too me abuse is abuse, be it emotional or physical. You're both emotionally abusive and physically violent — he pushed and shoved, you busted a lamp over your head. If you escalate negative interactions to the point where no response is acceptable but 100% agreement with your position/complaint, you've given the Farmer no options but to a) submit, b) engage with further anger/abuse or c) disengage.You don't like it when the Farmer walks away and you don't like it when he engages with more anger and emotional/physical abuse so that leaves submission. It's not going to work to abuse the Farmer into submission or for the Farmer to abuse you into submission. Neither of you will accept that outcome, and you know option b will destroy your family, so that leaves c. When interactions start to escalate, find a way to disengage. From what I've read here, this will work because if you walk away, the Farmer won't come after you. You're the one who actively tries to prevent disengagement.
Posted by Susan Tiner on September 27, 2011 at 5:05 pm | permalink |
it's like a think tank for feelings.
Posted by Lisarichmon on September 27, 2011 at 3:28 pm | permalink |
Under the assumption that you didn't fake this or have chosen this situation deliberately in order to have something sensational to write about, I suggest you take a different approach. Domestic violence doesn't exist, there is only violence. All violence comes from the mind, and a writer spends a lot of his/her lifetime in close relationship with the mind (Virginia Wolff was drowned by her mind…). The mind has to sort anything in to good or bad, or black and white for that matter, in your case it seems the black has fallen onto the poor farmer. We get a partner to make visible for us the bullshit our mind is doing to us, if we haven't done our homework and cleaned it up beforehand. I recommend, you become a team, the farmer and you. Give your collective mind a name, "Voldemort would do, you might as well tell his name, he will attempt to kill you either way", find the Horkruxes and get rid of them. The easiest way to do this would be: ask smart questions, right? Unless you want to keep the problem, of course. For example: How does it get any better than this? And then just shut up, will you, for a moment and wait what happens? I am sure you find more good questions, right? After all you are an expert on this (or is it only about sorting out stupid questions from other people?). The shutting up might be a problem, though, but without, it doesn't work
(not saying, don't write posts any more, just shut up for some time after asking a good question and let something new into your life). And stop blaming the guys, will you? I am so tired of that. Men take their orders from women, always have. It is your attic that is giving the orders, so clean it up, will you? It is your choice what kind of example you give to your kids.
Posted by Joseann on September 27, 2011 at 4:53 pm | permalink |
Penelope, I think you can crowdsource when it comes to concepts like visual literacy, but not something like how to deal with domestic abuse. This isn't an intellectual matter; it's an emotional one.
Take to heart the words of people who advise you to look after your emotional state, and that of your children. I liked the suggestion that both you and the Farmer sit the boys down to tell them that what's been happening isn't the healthy way to go about things.
Afterward, no matter what decision you make about the Farmer, I recommend finding a good psychologist, someone who won't let you intellectualize too much and can reflect everything you say back to you without any kind of agenda. I think this is especially important if you have Asperger's, since you likely are highly emotionally sensitive to what happens around you, but are also disconnected from knowing why you are or what causes those reactions — you'll need someone who can help you clearly figure out what emotional motivations you have, and what those indicators are, and do so in a supportive, non-volatile environment. I know you've mentioned you've been to therapy before, but I wonder if you had the right kind of match-up with your therapist.
Try to not get lost in the details: you wouldn't have written this post if you had merely wanted to know/debate if you were in abusive situation. I think you want lots of love and support, and unfortunately, you won't get them if you pick apart the scenario intellectually. It'll just buy you time to avoid making any hard decisions about what's best for you and the boys. And to a degree, the Farmer.
Posted by Sabby on September 27, 2011 at 10:11 pm | permalink |
Penelope, I think you can crowdsource when it comes to concepts like visual literacy, but not something like how to deal with domestic abuse. This isn't an intellectual matter; it's an emotional one.
Take to heart the words of people who advise you to look after your emotional state, and that of your children. I liked the suggestion that both you and the Farmer sit the boys down to tell them that what's been happening isn't the healthy way to go about things.
Afterward, no matter what decision you make about the Farmer, I recommend finding a good psychologist, someone who won't let you intellectualize too much and can reflect everything you say back to you without any kind of agenda. I think this is especially important if you have Asperger's, since you likely are highly emotionally sensitive to what happens around you, but are also disconnected from knowing why you are or what causes those reactions — you'll need someone who can help you clearly figure out what emotional motivations you have, and what those indicators are, and do so in a supportive, non-volatile environment. I know you've mentioned you've been to therapy before, but I wonder if you had the right kind of match-up with your therapist.
Try to not get lost in the details: you wouldn't have written this post if you had merely wanted to know/debate if you were in abusive situation. I think you want lots of love and support, and unfortunately, you won't get them if you pick apart the scenario intellectually. It'll just buy you time to avoid making any hard decisions about what's best for you and the boys. And to a degree, the Farmer.
Posted by Sabby on September 27, 2011 at 10:11 pm | permalink |
OK this is more like it! Listen to Sabby and stop getting lost in the other comments.
Posted by Claudia on September 28, 2011 at 4:24 pm | permalink |
If you are having these emotional problems, why turn to three men who you've had issues with? And who all want to avoid talking about anything emotional, from the sound of it?
Stay or go, you need a better support group than this.
If the farmer has a history of being rough with you, then I'd say go. It's not going to get better. If this is new, perhaps you are just driving each other insane. He can't see staying with you for the rest of his life, so he's going into these rages. He has left you more than once, and demanded that you leave not too long ago.
You do these passive-aggressive things like cooking a meal you know he won't like, and write with a certain amount of contempt for his values. You've also badmouthed the whole community off and on, which also reflects some contempt.
Can you really see yourself living there another 10 years?
Posted by Anonymous on September 27, 2011 at 12:38 pm | permalink |
Dear Penelope,
This makes me so sad. You are wonderful and brilliant. You are a great writer. I bet you are a great mother too. You will be okay and so will your boys but you need to get out of there. Don't buy the "it's your fault" bullshit. I'm so afraid you will start believing it. You could really get hurt. Leave for yourself and leave so your boys don't see that kind of behavior. You don't want them to grow up and act like the farmer.
Penelope, you deserve to be safe, and to have a happy life. And your boys deserve to see you treated with love and respect.
I know you'll figure out a way. Just go. And keep us posted.
Michele
Posted by Michele on September 27, 2011 at 12:39 pm | permalink |
I'll stick with you.
Posted by MHF on September 27, 2011 at 12:40 pm | permalink |
There is nothing, nothing, nothing, that justifies his abuse.
I am so worried about your kids. You are so clear on the effects of divorce, and the effects of schools. Please think about the effects of witnessing abuse.
I know you can find the courage to do what you need to do.
Posted by Lindsay on September 27, 2011 at 12:41 pm | permalink |
First off- completely agree with you on each point: Nothing justifies this. She is perfectly capable of making the tough choice to leave. There is cause for worry. You're right on the money with all these statements.
"You are so clear on the effects of divorce, and the effects of schools. Please think about the effects of witnessing abuse." Well said.
But I'm going to point this out, in case she reads this and actually hears it, and I'm pointing this out as someone who has been there: she is not understanding the effects of witnessing abuse because she has not dealt with the effects of having been abused.
That is not her fault- it's not your fault, Penelope- but it is very important you start to do so before things get worse.
Until she deals, she will not understand how bad this is. I bet she has articles bookmarked on the effects of witnessing abuse. I bet she has dozens.
She knows it's bad, but it's been "justifiably bad" for a while now. She justifies it by calling it out in her head and in front of all of us. "I know why I'm messed up. I know why I do this stuff. Here are some stats. Here are all the gory details. See, I'm confronting it. I'm dealing. I know exactly why I'm this screwed up. I'm sorry."
But here's the thing: Knowing isn't change. Change is change. She can't come at this through stats and articles and in-depth psychology knowledge. I know, I'm a fact person too. I love facts. It's scary to let them go and see what's going on inside, without making it sound good in front of an audience. It's one thing to be bluntly honest to a group of strangers- it's exciting, it's an adrenaline rush, it makes you feel big- and it's another to be bluntly honest with yourself- it's not exciting, you feel guilty and scared, you feel small.
Until she learns the difference, she's not going to heal her own wounds, and she's going to continue the violent cycle in front of her kids.
I think if she ever does start truly fixing things we won't hear from her for a long time. Until then the blog is a sad substitute for real-life confrontation. This is still a performance for our benefit, and she needs to be thinking for her, and only for her, and trusting herself, and not a blog forum, and having real friends, and not readers.
She actually doesn't really give a crap what any of us think. Because look: she is afraid of her neighbors knowing what's going on. But we don't count. We're internet-people. If she didn't care about people knowing- if the "brazen" online persona wasn't mostly an act, then she wouldn't give a damn about her rural neighbors, either. But there's still some level of separation. It's a way to hide. I hope she disappears (from the blog) and goes to figure things out.
Posted by Valerie on September 28, 2011 at 3:09 am | permalink |
"Cut yourself some slack if you're in a bad situation and not getting out. But get out. Research shows that people have a proclivity to stay in a bad situation, but you can be an overachiever. Force yourself to change before things get ugly." Penelope Trunk. I think you need to take your own advice.
Posted by Charles on September 27, 2011 at 12:42 pm | permalink |
This is a slightly odd post, I do like the ending, but am not sure you meant it as I see it. I do think you need someone to talk to, as you do seem to be spiraling a bit.
I will do a bit of advice – get the farmer to comment on this, perhaps just where you can see it, but written when you aren't present. I could do a whole essay on your posts, but it's not really one for online. Short version – you might be very annoying in person but if he hit you leave.
Posted by John L on September 27, 2011 at 12:44 pm | permalink |
Penelope:
I am so sorry for your heartache. And the Farmer's. I will pray for you both. Something tells me you are not big on prayer. No worries. You don't need to be big on it for it to work.
Amy Parmenter
The ParmFarm
Posted by Amy Parmenter on September 27, 2011 at 12:45 pm | permalink |
This post is about the scariness of ordinary life. Most of the time, we're just trying to survive. It's heartbreaking to read about it, because most of the time, people don't talk about it.
I live in a household with an Asperger teen, and I can't tell you how frustrating it is. I used to go to a shrink when he was a toddler, and she told me I was abusive to him. Asperger Syndrome hadn't been invented yet, so she assumed all the problems were with me. I used to lock him in his room and leave him in there screaming, just so I wouldn't kill him. It seemed like the best option at the time. Now, with him as a teen, I go for a lot of long walks. I've taken up running and biking. I'm 110 pounds and look pretty darn good. I've given up trying to be a good mom and just focus on getting through each day.
What I'm saying is that the Farmer is a human being too. What he's calling emotional abuse is probably just the slow shredding of his life caused by dealing with chronic inflexibility, intemperate behaviour, and extremes. I can attest to how much it destroys.
Sad to say that leaving a husband doesn't necessarily make life better. Look up the research on that. There is no good life. There's just life.
Posted by Nancy on September 27, 2011 at 12:46 pm | permalink |
Rachel, what you say is so poignant and meaningful. You help the rest of us understand life in a better way.
Posted by DL on September 27, 2011 at 3:34 pm | permalink |
Nancy. This comment kills me. I'm the mom in your story — because I have a pre-teen with Aspergers and parenting him is nearly impossible. But I'm also the one with Aspergers — the one who is chronically inflexible and intemperate. Your comment, more than any other comment here, makes me think we need huge intervention in our household.
I am surprised. This is not what I expected to learn from writing this post.
Penelope
Posted by Penelope Trunk on September 28, 2011 at 11:12 am | permalink |
I want to make you aware of neurofeedback. Check out neurofeedback and asperger's.
Blood-flow exercises for the pre-frontal cortex can improve executive function (primarily "putting on the brakes") which is in charge of things like inhibiting impulses, decision-making and even mood. EEG training can help areas of the brain to begin performing and also build connections between areas of the brain.
When too much slow brain activity is present in an area of the brain, it may not be "turning on" to do it's job, like attention or inhibition. When too much fast brain activity is present, it can contribute to anxiety, anger.
It's not a replacement for other kinds of help your family may need, but when awareness and control are developed it can be life-altering.
Posted by Zellie on September 28, 2011 at 11:42 am | permalink |
Neurofeedback has been a lifesaver in this house. We ended up buying the equipment and learning to do it ourselves at home. We do a tune-up every three months or so. It's, as you say, life-altering.
Posted by Nancy on September 28, 2011 at 4:07 pm | permalink |
I'm glad you saw that. As the mother of a teenage daughter with Asperger's and the ex of a man with it, I related to your post and this comment. In a volatile escalation like the one you described, perspective can get hopelessly lost. Everyone needs guidance and skills to navigate all of the obstacles you're facing. My daughter and I have repeatedly sought out professional help and it has repeatedly done wonders. Take care. xo
Posted by Shanon on September 28, 2011 at 3:30 pm | permalink |
I'm glad you saw that. As the mother of a teenage daughter with Asperger's and the ex of a man with it, I related to your post and this comment. In a volatile escalation like the one you described, perspective can get hopelessly lost. Everyone needs guidance and skills to navigate all of the obstacles you're facing. My daughter and I have repeatedly sought out professional help and it has repeatedly done wonders. Take care. xo
Posted by Shanon on September 28, 2011 at 3:30 pm | permalink |
You need help. This is all one big cry for help and I wish I could. I'm a working dad with two small kids and no Aspergers or Autisim and it's still FREAKING HARD. You know what helped turn some sanity back on in our house? My wife leaving a teaching job she loved in a tough Oakland neighborhood so she could stay home with the kids who now both go to public school. She's a regular room parent with no job. I know it's a big hit on her ego and we get questions like, "well, what does she do all day?"
My answer is "she keeps me and the kids from going insane." I feel guilty every day about not being the best dad I can be. But you can't give it all to your kids. You sound pretty isolated. Talking to professionals is one thing, but you need real, meat-space friends that you can go to. Ones that truly care about you. They have flashlights and cliff bars stashed away just for the occasion. You know the answers are within yourself but they seem to violate all these rules you've already set up. Our big rule was "both parents must work". Turns out, that rule would have ended our marriage.
Posted by CaptFuzz on September 28, 2011 at 4:25 pm | permalink |
Hi
When you write a post you cannot "expect already specifically what to learn". you learn what comes of it what people write…those are to be taken as objective comments. If someone is hitting you, there is NO reason to stay with them. Are you dependent on them financially? Move out, find a shelter. big deal if you were "famous". I have read yahoo finance for years now and dont remember your name or face there, no offense to that.. Safety is more important. That said.. if someone wants meat in their foods and you go to extra lengths to make sure it is not there, it means both of you are playing an ego game now.. You should just not make any food for this 'farmer' etc..
Posted by Anonymous on November 22, 2011 at 8:11 am | permalink |
I don't understand this sentence: "This post is about the scariness of ordinary life. Most of the time, we're just trying to survive." In my opinion this post is absolutely not about "ordinary life" or are you saying ordinary life in the States looks like this?? It is not ordinary to be pushed around by your husband and an ordinary life is not about "trying to survive". An ordinary life is about living. I wish you would understand that this is "traumatized" life with people who don't realize that they have been traumatized and who try to manage this by themselves? Obviously this condition is so wide spread over there that people think this is "ordinary"? Gruesome. And no, there is good life, but even if you would meet with it, you would probably find it boring. There seems to be a strong addiction in American women with drama, struggle for money, men, space and pretty much everything, stress, panic, you name it. Absolutely scary the degree of insanity in your country, if any of what I read here is representative. I really feel sorry for the kids, I probably would start screaming, too, if I was in their place. How does it get any better than this?
Posted by Joseann on September 28, 2011 at 2:04 pm | permalink |
Yeah Joseann, it is ordinary life for most people in the US and they don't know any different and they think you're a total freak for refusing to play along. It's not just women though, don't be a jerk. The women shatter first.
Posted by Karen on September 28, 2011 at 3:56 pm | permalink |
Wow. That might just be one of the most negative things I've read in a long time. Don't you think you and Joseann are generalizing just a tad about life in America? You're taking a rather bad, yet unique, situation and extrapolating it to be the norm.
Posted by Nick on September 28, 2011 at 5:08 pm | permalink |
Well, I didn't call what PT described
in her post "ordinary", Nancy did, didn't she? She
extrapolated it into something ordinary. It's not the only blog I
browse and there is other sources as well that suggest the US does
have a number of problems. I actually wrote because I think it is
dangerous when people start to think that something really sick is
"ordinary". How will it ever improve? I wanted to point out
that it is paramount to do exactly the opposite. Get clear about the
fact that this is NOT ordinary and never should be. If you know that
this is not ordinary, it should get you going to ask: now, what then
could I change to make it better=ordinary in a positive way? I am
100% negative about letting things become accepted as ordinary that
are not supposed to be ordinary. May be you reread the post?
Posted by Joseann on September 28, 2011 at 9:05 pm | permalink |
I wouldn't try to judge the entire US by reading several blogs written by Americans
Posted by RL on September 30, 2011 at 2:02 pm | permalink |
I wouldn't try to judge the entire US by reading several blogs written by Americans
Posted by RL on September 30, 2011 at 2:02 pm | permalink |
I wouldn't try to judge the entire US by reading several blogs written by Americans
Posted by RL on September 30, 2011 at 2:02 pm | permalink |
It's what ordinary life can be like for those of us with a history of past abuse, learning disorders, or autism. As with other disabilities, life can be more difficult on ourselves and our families than average.
Posted by RL on September 30, 2011 at 2:01 pm | permalink |
The hinges are difficult. You never know if it's better to attach the stamps for security, or if the attachment is so damaging that you risk losing the stamp.
Wow. Serious analogy here. Did you catch that?
Amy
Posted by Amy Parmenter on September 27, 2011 at 12:48 pm | permalink |
duh
Posted by sorry, but come on on September 28, 2011 at 8:39 pm | permalink |
You are worth taking care of yourself. You are a good parent and you have the people around you to support you to do what you need to do to take care of yourself and your kids.
Everyone is annoying. No one ever should be pushed or shoved or hurt in any way in reaction to anything they say or do. That is abuse. No matter what.
Saying your __________ (fill in the blank) is the farmer's excuse that he needs for himself so he doesn't have to deal with the fact that he abused you.
He needs help.
You need help.
Different kinds of help/support.
You are an amazing person–if you can't believe that yourself right now, hold on to that others believe that of you, even people who haven't met you. You are strong. You are resilient and you know what's best for you and best for your kids.
Maybe its an ultimatum for him.
Maybe its leaving.
Love yourself and love your kids and get the people that know you personally to hold you tight and tell you your worth it and help you do what you decide to do.
Posted by Aimee Sterk on September 27, 2011 at 12:54 pm | permalink |
I actually don't doubt that you're emotionally abusive to him: writing this and posting it qualifies, in my opinion. It is an incredible and insensitive violation of his privacy that is no doubt going to damage him enormously in ways that are impossible to predict. But he is still responsible for his own actions, just like all of us. You may emotionally abuse him, but it doesn't give him the right to physically hurt you.
If he's allowing himself to be pushed to the point where he's making such crappy decisions, it's his mistake and his problem and he needs to take action to change his situation. He needs to take ownership of his choices, and frankly, he should be asking you to leave before he hurts you. And if you refuse, he should be getting legal advice and calling the police to get you out before he touches you. I'm not going to give you false sympathy: you're a smart person, capable of making good decisions and taking ownership of your life. I suspect he is, too. I hope so anyway, because while the situation is ugly for you, it sounds as if it's pretty ugly for him, too.
Posted by Anonymous on September 27, 2011 at 12:57 pm | permalink |
Penelope,
You are a writer, supposed to be making a living from it. Why do you have to depend on a man to support you and your kids? If you really love the Farmer, why don't you get a place of your own and have a relationship with him while you are standing on your own ground? That you would juxtapose all of your seemingly innocent remarks and passive agression in a blog doesn't bode well for a mature and respectful relationship. Maybe you need to pay your own rent and stop using this man and your kids for sympathy and blog fodder. You are supposed to know about career advice. Personally, all I have seen from you is irrelavant BS that appeals to kids who know no work ethic. The world is a hostile employment environment because people tried to live and work in the soap opera world you hype. Wash your dishes, take care of your kids, pay your rent and quit using these people to boslter your make believe psycho drama.
Posted by Virginia on September 27, 2011 at 4:59 pm | permalink |
You aren't, by chance, one of The Farmer's sisters, are you?
Posted by Heather on September 27, 2011 at 9:01 pm | permalink |
I am everybody's sister, even Penelope's.
Posted by Virginia on September 28, 2011 at 3:44 am | permalink |
Your kidding right? As if a professional blogger wasn't going to write about something like this? And what would you have had her do, try to convince him to get counseling?
This what is frightening about a situation like this. Once something hits the web, it's there forever. And being pegged as an abusive person is just a few notches up from being pegged as a child molester. So if he wasn't capable of thinking clearly enough to stop himself before, what's he likely going to do now? I doubt if he and Penelope are laying in bed reading these comments and laughing about the traffic the post generated.
My take is, this is Penelope's way of forcing herself to leave a situation she really doesn't want to leave. It's not exactly like leaving a failed start-up.
Posted by Anonymous on September 28, 2011 at 12:25 am | permalink |
There are so many comments here. Thank you. Everyone. I don't know how to respond. I just keep reading.
I am responding to this one because it's about my options. What can I do. I think I can do a lot. It's not so easy to leave. Someone here, somewhere in 250 comments, wrote about how when she worked at a womens shelter the women left eight times before they really left. I couldn't do that to the kids. But I do it in my head. It's how I know how hard it is for me to leave.
It's easier to sort through what I should be doing when there are so many people tossing out ideas.
I think I wrote this post, maybe, because if the problem isn't private then it's harder for me to hide it from myself, and if the solutions are in public then it's harder to say I don't see them.
Penelope
Posted by Penelope Trunk on September 28, 2011 at 11:07 am | permalink |
"I think I wrote this post, maybe, because if the problem isn't private
then it's harder for me to hide it from myself, and if the solutions
are in public then it's harder to say I don't see them."
Honestly, I think this is bullshit. You are hiding in the public, from your life. If you couldn't, you would have to deal with what is happening in your life, but it is just so much nicer to read comments from irrelevant people, instead of sitting down and asking yourself some serious questions. Your problem is that you are getting attention for the wrong stuff. What kind of a consultant are you? Can you be present every minute of your day in your real life and just watch, how you are doing your life? Without judgement, panic or drama? Can you recall how you are with the farmer before he pushes you? How you are before your "Asperger-preteen" throws a fit? You might realize that they all go nuts because you are not there, YOU, yes. You are lost in your mind reading comments and writing stories. You are abusing all of them and their behaviour is a wake up call, for you, not to leave, but to finally move in and straighten things out. If it was only the farmer, I wouldn't care, but you have kids. It really sucks. "But I do it in my head. It's how I know how hard it is for me to leave." It is because you do it in your head that it is hard, because in your head resides the pattern that makes it hard for you. GET OUT OF YOUR HEAD. If you are not willing to do that, stop whining about your kids. You don't give a damn shit about them, that's what I get from this post.Nevermind.
Posted by Joseann on September 28, 2011 at 2:26 pm | permalink |
Some of this makes sense, but some of it just seems kind of mean.
Posted by Claudia on September 28, 2011 at 4:13 pm | permalink |
I think the poster is saying that Penelope is hiding behind her intellect, hiding in her headspace, hiding from being truly present in her life. She is using "thinking" and "writing" as an escape and distraction from the full catastrophe of life, the day to day of living.
I know someone who may (or may not) have AS. He thrives on believing he's the smartest person in the room and mostly he is. He demands attention RIGHT NOW whenever he wants to express whatever, anger, rage, hurt, fear, joy. Telling him "no" or "later" is like a knife through his heart and he will tantrum to get his way. He can't wrap his head around empathy. He lives in the past and the future, but never in the now. And even when he is pretending to be in in the now, he's 20 seconds ahead because he's cuts people off and talks over them. Yet he can be charming and funny. When he's actually interested in something, he can be the most amazing friend.
I read PT's blog because it feels really familiar. But invited folks like this to sit still, detach from their thoughts, and just be, is like offering them a plate of broken glass to swill.
Posted by Jennifer Winegardner on September 28, 2011 at 8:35 pm | permalink |
Hi Jennifer, I appreciate your attempt to explain my post, it gives me an idea where I am unclear. I am using your words to make it even more precise, hopefully: PT is not only hiding behind her intellect, she is held hostage by her headspace if she can't turn it off at will. Her mind distracts her from her life which is why her day to day life is a catastrophe.
The person you describe is pretty much the same, kind of final state of mind hostage. The mind is a crazy machine, you better get that soon, and the mind cannot wrap anything around empathy because empathy resides in the heart. The person you describe is in "old word terms" an "abandoned child" that has never learnt anything about what it means to be human, others call it "spoiled brat" or "egomanic", but I don't like that term. About the broken glass to swill: If you want to ever meet them as the person they truly are, you have to find a way how to get them into the body and out of the mind. That is hard to do when the mother herself is lost in her mind. It will feel like swallowing broken glass for the mind if you do, but honestly, is it fun to be treated by their mind the way you describe it?
Posted by Joseann on September 28, 2011 at 9:35 pm | permalink |
I wonder Joseann, have you read the other posts she links to in this one? I think that no matter what, we should respect her for talking about her life and opening it up to comments from others. No one can ever put themselves in someone else's shoes. Giving advice is good, and I realize that you're trying to give advice in your own way, but I think that we need to be, above all, respectful and supportive. PT, the majority of us read your blog and comment on it because we're here for you and we're paying attention. There's a lot of advice being given in these comments, probably overwhelmingly so, and none of us can say whose is better or who knows better. But don't stop talking, and don't feel like you're ever alone. We're here for you.
Posted by Rachel Stratemeier on October 7, 2011 at 6:26 am | permalink |
SHUT UP!!! You have no idea what you are even trying to say!!!
Posted by Alicia on November 12, 2011 at 9:41 am | permalink |
And it is obvious by you having to explain yourself that no one else does either!
Posted by Alicia on November 12, 2011 at 9:42 am | permalink |
Yes, it seems mean to all those who are identified with their mind and that is exactly why things don't change. The mind, the meanest participant in this whole story, will consider it to be mean when it is dragged out of it's hiding position and called out for the bullshit it produces in order to do only one thing: continue to abuse all those involved in the situation. All I can see is a woman who allows her mind to do that and she even is looking for applause from her all too willing audience here. As long as it is only you, that's your choice. But when there is kids involved, things change, at least for me. Take it as an act of generosity, I am very clear about my mind. When it produces bullshit, I tell it to shut up. But you can only tell bullshit from truth when you have disidentified from your mind and found truth (hint: it is not located in the mind). You still prefer to kiss "Voldemorts" feet, congratulations. I don't buy her mind's bullshit. There is no "Asperger-preteen", but even if there should be, does this classification help your child to feel better?
Posted by Joseann on September 28, 2011 at 8:55 pm | permalink |
I honestly think you are trying to give yourself a pat on the back. I think YOU are looking for confirmation from these readers. There is not an ounce of constructive criticism in your long winded post. You are just comparing yourself and your life situations and how you deal with them to someone elses that happens to be on the complete opposite end of the spectrum. You have posted so much on this comment board I think you just like what you have to say and writing hurtful comments makes you feel like your doing something right in your own life. You are the type of person who depends on other peoples weaknesses to make yourself feel better. I can tell by the credit you give yourself in your comments. It's like the old saying "go pick on someone your own size." If you can't have respect for different life styles then there is not an ounce of credibility in the advice you dish out. So what if she is a phony. Does it really effect you? You are more focused on calling her out then you are on the subject matter which is abuse (emotional, verbal, and physical) that happens to effect thousands/millions of people everyday. She is not the only one. It is comments like yours that are nonconstructive that allows for things like this to continue. Comments like yours place insecurity in people. People with comments like yours are just trying to rid themselves of their own insecurities by placing them on others. Talk about bullshit. If it smells like bullshit, looks likes bullshit, then it is bullshit. Your comments have two of the two traits of bullshit.
People, let's give this women the kind of comments we would want if we where dealing with this kind of situation or a situation of our own. I mean I want people to sympathize with me when I have to many dishes. I can't imagine what it would feel like in her situation. Would we want people telling us our problems are petty and a desperate cry for help? If you don't believe in her cause then move on and find one you do believe in and make a difference. You aren't going to make a difference by chastising or negative comments.
Posted by Alicia on November 12, 2011 at 9:40 am | permalink |
Like an earlier poster, some of what you say makes sense. GET OUT OF YOUR HEAD and get out of that relationship are both good advice. Even if she does not meet his expectations, not matter what they are, no one deserves to be abused – physically or emotionally. The thing that keeps her there is fear. Fear of the unknown, Fear of everything. But staying in that relationshp is toxic to her boys but especially to Penelope for the damage it does to her soul. Someone who pushes you down and then blames you for it is twisted. Plain and simple. They are responsible for their behavior. I bet these sentiments have been repeated here many time. Penelope, please get some professional help. Call a battered women's center in your area and talk to someone. Please. You deserve it.
Posted by Rita on October 3, 2011 at 8:52 pm | permalink |
What do you really know about the situation besides what is here? Even her post rings of a mocking really ugly undertone and she is probably putting on a good front here. Imagine the actual emotional abuse the guy must be under when a man who isn't abusive is forced to clear his space even when he asked her for room. She needs to look in the mirror and wonder how she got where she is. She is the common denominator in all 3 of her failed relationships with the men mentioned in these posts…
Posted by MTK on October 5, 2011 at 7:31 pm | permalink |
Well put, Stevedisq. Speaking as someone who tried to leave about four times before it happened, I can vouch for the fact that if you make it public, even as ill-advised as a blog would seem to be for such a thing, you suddenly cannot avoid the issue any longer. I didn't tell my friends and family the full extent of what was happening for a long time because I knew once I did, I'd have to face the facts and make a hard decision.
Hang in there, Penelope. You'll figure it out. Hopefully sooner rather than later, but your instincts /are/ telling you where you need to go and what to do.
Posted by Sabby on September 28, 2011 at 5:37 pm | permalink |
If you love someone enough to marry them, you have to be able to forgive.
It also helps to avoid escalating bad situations, avoiding triggers, and compromising.
If you love the farmer, and he loves you, then you'll be fine.
Posted by drunicus on September 29, 2011 at 8:13 pm | permalink |
@drunicus – are you serious? Love will find a way? I don't think so.
Posted by Rita on October 3, 2011 at 8:57 pm | permalink |
Penelope… thank you for being so real. Your blog has so many times given me (and many others) a sense of, "hey i'm not the only one".
I'm an INTJ and my 11 year old son has been suggested to be aspergers and tourettes, with high intelligence (4 years accelerated at school) that often leads to both of us in tears, even though there are so many brilliant moments too. I was also a teen mum having fallen pregnant at 16 and have happily proceeded to defy many of the stereotypes cast since then.
Having not read every single post, I'm not sure if these have already been suggested, however I would seriously consider them as essential resources for your situation and know that they have been a huge help for having me get a greater understanding of how to deal with these strange things called humans.
Books by Dr John Gottman, specifically:
'The 7 principles for making a marriage work' – He can predict with 91% accuracy whether couples will stay together based on a few key things he outlines in the book. And a couple that fights a lot is not one of them. It's how you fight. There's a lot of 'workshopy' style stuff in there, but when you get to the core pieces it's essentially a recipe for how to have a relationship that works. (Which for INTJ and aspergers people is a godsend)
Books by Harville Hendrix, specifically:
'Giving the love that heals' – This is based on the Imago approach of how our parents impact our relationships, and this book specifically is about how to parent effectively and become more aware of how we can heal those hurts from the way we grew up and stop the cycle of pain.
Books by Patricia Evans, specifically:
'The Verbally Abusive Relationship' and 'Controlling People' – these books, and her whole series are extremely helpful for how to become more aware of the specific language and actions used in abusive and controlling relationships. We all do these things some of the time, but it's about recognising the patterns that indicate when something needs to change. you'd be surprised by how many language patterns we see as normal, are actually indicative of verbally abusive patterns.
I'm not sure which one of her books has the step by step actions for how to leave a relationship effectively, but they will support you in making the decisions that you need to make. I credit her books for helping me to 'finally' leave an on/off abusive relationship with a successful public speaker who had a whole another side appear when the audience wasn't watching.
These 3 authors and their resources I hope will provide you with a way forward. Sometimes it's best to 'lay low' for a little while, play the happy 'yes wife' role, whilst regaining your strength to make the decisions from a strong place.
Oh, and also the Sedona method can be great for easing the mind chatter about what to do
Posted by Katerina on October 6, 2011 at 10:28 am | permalink |
Penelope… thank you for being so real. Your blog has so many times given me (and many others) a sense of, "hey i'm not the only one".
I'm an INTJ and my 11 year old son has been suggested to be aspergers and tourettes, with high intelligence (4 years accelerated at school) that often leads to both of us in tears, even though there are so many brilliant moments too. I was also a teen mum having fallen pregnant at 16 and have happily proceeded to defy many of the stereotypes cast since then.
Having not read every single post, I'm not sure if these have already been suggested, however I would seriously consider them as essential resources for your situation and know that they have been a huge help for having me get a greater understanding of how to deal with these strange things called humans.
Books by Dr John Gottman, specifically:
'The 7 principles for making a marriage work' – He can predict with 91% accuracy whether couples will stay together based on a few key things he outlines in the book. And a couple that fights a lot is not one of them. It's how you fight. There's a lot of 'workshopy' style stuff in there, but when you get to the core pieces it's essentially a recipe for how to have a relationship that works. (Which for INTJ and aspergers people is a godsend)
Books by Harville Hendrix, specifically:
'Giving the love that heals' – This is based on the Imago approach of how our parents impact our relationships, and this book specifically is about how to parent effectively and become more aware of how we can heal those hurts from the way we grew up and stop the cycle of pain.
Books by Patricia Evans, specifically:
'The Verbally Abusive Relationship' and 'Controlling People' – these books, and her whole series are extremely helpful for how to become more aware of the specific language and actions used in abusive and controlling relationships. We all do these things some of the time, but it's about recognising the patterns that indicate when something needs to change. you'd be surprised by how many language patterns we see as normal, are actually indicative of verbally abusive patterns.
I'm not sure which one of her books has the step by step actions for how to leave a relationship effectively, but they will support you in making the decisions that you need to make. I credit her books for helping me to 'finally' leave an on/off abusive relationship with a successful public speaker who had a whole another side appear when the audience wasn't watching.
These 3 authors and their resources I hope will provide you with a way forward. Sometimes it's best to 'lay low' for a little while, play the happy 'yes wife' role, whilst regaining your strength to make the decisions from a strong place.
Oh, and also the Sedona method can be great for easing the mind chatter about what to do
Posted by Katerina on October 6, 2011 at 10:28 am | permalink |
He's the one who should leave you, Penelope.
Posted by Scott on November 23, 2011 at 9:25 pm | permalink |
He's the one who should leave you, Penelope.
Posted by Scott on November 23, 2011 at 9:25 pm | permalink |
My Mother had a similar affliction. This was back in the mid-50's to the 80's. When she would get started up on my Father, she simply didn't have an off switch. The most awful, hurtful things I ever heard, and she would pursue him if he tried to avoid the conflict. BTW, she was and still is a Jehovah's Witness. I now realize she suffers from AS, or something similar. My brother and I ended up hating her for all the whack things she did. Yes, He would smack her to get her off of him, and that clearly wasn't right, but it was under extremely difficult circumstances, and frankly, I don't know what else could have been done. She ruined our family, and everyone knew it. She was an extremely intelligent woman, think electical engineer in the 50's who was impossible to deal with. Even now, as I think about what happened back then, I realize that my Father was emotionally traumatized, and was ashamed of her, but he wouldn't divorce her. She eventually left, and he really never recovered.
Nowdays, I really feel she would have been institutionalized, and put on something….But the worst part of this was the fact that my brother and I never got over that. I eventually married a woman who had some of the same problems my mother had, and, consequently, I had to divorce her. Yeah, she was a rabid Jehovah's witness also. The point of all this is that emotional abuse and trauma can break ANYONE. And when the abuser gets the upper hand, and hey, oftentimes it's the woman, well, sick things happen. I always figured my Father was going to snap and kill her, but he didn't.
So, we are estranged, and I simply CANNOT afford such aberrant behavior in my life. And that's really sad, but all the tears in the world can't change that. I'll say this…Penelopes sons are already ruined…..any hopes of them having a natural relationship with a woman are really doubtful, IMO. Young boys are molded by the "adult" behavior around them, and the smarter they are, the more severe the affects. There really isn't any free ride, and from what I've read, and I've spent a good amount of time on this blog….Penelope is a very intelligent woman in the same mold as my mother…..and she'll probably end up the same way as my mother has….alone, because of her mental condition. Yeah, I know, that's not PC, but reality isn't PC either.
So, what about the Farmer? You see, Penelope apparently doesn't understand what she has done to this guy. And what about her Father? Just who is telling the truth? The real price to be paid is already at her sons feet. Words won't cure that.
Posted by Killerwhale681 on October 4, 2011 at 1:27 am | permalink |
My Mother had a similar affliction. This was back in the mid-50's to the 80's. When she would get started up on my Father, she simply didn't have an off switch. The most awful, hurtful things I ever heard, and she would pursue him if he tried to avoid the conflict. BTW, she was and still is a Jehovah's Witness. I now realize she suffers from AS, or something similar. My brother and I ended up hating her for all the whack things she did. Yes, He would smack her to get her off of him, and that clearly wasn't right, but it was under extremely difficult circumstances, and frankly, I don't know what else could have been done. She ruined our family, and everyone knew it. She was an extremely intelligent woman, think electical engineer in the 50's who was impossible to deal with. Even now, as I think about what happened back then, I realize that my Father was emotionally traumatized, and was ashamed of her, but he wouldn't divorce her. She eventually left, and he really never recovered.
Nowdays, I really feel she would have been institutionalized, and put on something….But the worst part of this was the fact that my brother and I never got over that. I eventually married a woman who had some of the same problems my mother had, and, consequently, I had to divorce her. Yeah, she was a rabid Jehovah's witness also. The point of all this is that emotional abuse and trauma can break ANYONE. And when the abuser gets the upper hand, and hey, oftentimes it's the woman, well, sick things happen. I always figured my Father was going to snap and kill her, but he didn't.
So, we are estranged, and I simply CANNOT afford such aberrant behavior in my life. And that's really sad, but all the tears in the world can't change that. I'll say this…Penelopes sons are already ruined…..any hopes of them having a natural relationship with a woman are really doubtful, IMO. Young boys are molded by the "adult" behavior around them, and the smarter they are, the more severe the affects. There really isn't any free ride, and from what I've read, and I've spent a good amount of time on this blog….Penelope is a very intelligent woman in the same mold as my mother…..and she'll probably end up the same way as my mother has….alone, because of her mental condition. Yeah, I know, that's not PC, but reality isn't PC either.
So, what about the Farmer? You see, Penelope apparently doesn't understand what she has done to this guy. And what about her Father? Just who is telling the truth? The real price to be paid is already at her sons feet. Words won't cure that.
Posted by Killerwhale681 on October 4, 2011 at 1:27 am | permalink |
Seriously?
Posted by Richard Gay on September 27, 2011 at 12:58 pm | permalink |
Dear Penelope… as someone who has exchanged emails with you and feels he knows you "virtually" I hope you find the emotional strength – sending you my good wishes – and hope that things will work out whichever way they are meant to be…
Posted by Gautam Ghosh on September 27, 2011 at 12:59 pm | permalink |
Dear Penelope… as someone who has exchanged emails with you and feels he knows you "virtually" I hope you find the emotional strength – sending you my good wishes – and hope that things will work out whichever way they are meant to be…
Posted by Gautam Ghosh on September 27, 2011 at 12:59 pm | permalink |
Dear Penelope,
Interesting the way you start your post is wanting for us to prove our "love" to
you. You want to make sure that no matter what you say we will still
be there/here. Because…
"I can't say no to my dad. I just want to be loved."
And you finish with..
"You never know if it's better to attach the stamps for security, or if
the attachment is so damaging that you risk losing the stamp."
Are you the stamp? All three men collected you at one point in their lives. And here you're not wanting to remove the attachment (get help) because you're famous? But you're being damaged.
You tell us a story, get us engaged, emotional, sad, irrational.. but you don't tell us if you're going to do anything about it. Leave us hanging for the next installment of physical/emotional abuse. (first it was the many, many break ups, then the lamp, then the tractor, and now this) or for us to read in the news that you're another statistic. I guess you're ok with the kids growing up with their father if something, God forbid (I didn't say Jesus), happens to you. Or is your blog enough evidence for the authorities to do something? Because they clearly didn't do much in the past besides sending you to your grandmother's house.
What do you want to do?
I don't know who said this quote, but here it is.
"What you want is revealed by what you do, not by what you say."
Ohh so many questions. And I'm not a therapist this is just my opinion.
Sending you clarity and "cojones" to do what you need to do.
Evelyn
Posted by Evebad on September 27, 2011 at 1:01 pm | permalink |
as a writer, absolutely brilliant last two lines. shot through me like fire, because…
as a person abused and neglected as a child, as a mom, as a homeschooler who struggles daily, as a working person who struggles with the loss of that "identity" in the world, as a person who witnessed violent domestic abuse in all of her formative years, as a person who is perfectionistic and remarkably flawed, codependent as all hell and fighting like a mother, as a person who would have called her father (even though he was also her abuser)…there is SO much here that resonates with me, layer by painful layer.
GET OUT. You are worth more, your kids will remember more than you know, and PHYSICAL ABUSE IS NEVER EXCUSABLE. It will not go away. So you must, with your precious kids, and protect all of you. As weak as you may feel, you are stronger than anyone could EVER know. Survival.
i only just got here…i'm sticking around because you are, quixotically, real. (everything in me hopes this is fiction, but i get the feeling it's not.)
Posted by dv on September 27, 2011 at 1:07 pm | permalink |
I'm sorry but you need to get out of this. You are still being disrespected by your husband and father if they are putting up with actual physical violence, let alone emotional violence toward you and NOT taking you out of it or helping. Sometimes we can't do it for ourselves, we ask and need other people to take us away from it. You wouldn't be alone or the first to do it that way is that is what exactly you are in essence asking for. Do it for yourself. It's a hard thing to do, especially with children and being a single income earner etc but… keeping secrets is just as bad as normalising behaviour which ENCOURAGES people to keep secrets (or act as if those secrets are normal life and fine to live with). Staying in this sort of environment is teaching you and your kids that this sort of violence toward any of you is normal, something to be put up with and in actual fact what you deserve. None of that is true. ALL of it is wrong. All of it is worth trying to find some other way to live.
Good luck Penelope. I really hope you get some help getting out of this. You might think you deserve this but you don't.
Posted by Erin on September 27, 2011 at 1:11 pm | permalink |
Penelope, I was in an abusive relationship for nearly nine years. It starts with yelling, then every time you forgive him, it's like permission for him to raise the bar even higher, to the point of violence. I moved out in 2hrs with a 1.5yr old in tow.. After the first physical violence towards me (there had been violence to objects and verbal/emotional/mental abuse) it took four months to finally realize that I couldn't excuse him, that there was no forgiveness, and that I was worthy of being happy…. and now I am. You know what you need to do.
Posted by Emily Dietle on September 27, 2011 at 1:11 pm | permalink |
If I lived next door to you, and knew this was happening, and knew you were staying in this abusive relationship with your kids, I'd be calling child services. You do not seem in a place to get help for yourself. Your kids need to get help if they are in an abusive family. If you can't get help for yourself, do it for them.
I've only been reading your posts for a few months and I feel like I watching a train wreck in the making. Please take care of your beautiful kids, or get someone else to, if you cannot.
Posted by Julie on September 27, 2011 at 1:13 pm | permalink |
Penelope, I so relate to this blog today. Especially this difficult balancing act of relationships that you have with the men in your life. Most significantly your dad. It is very daunting to parent a child on the spectrum, most especially a girl. I live in this same bizarre boat with my dad. I try to forgive him all of the parenting transgressions, but I still want him to love me and support me. The problem becomes that my dad feels he can love me and support me without actually accepting me the way that I am. (He is still, even after 42 years, waiting for me to wake up and be normal.) I don't know how you can love and support someone without accepting them.
Let me say here, that I'm pretty impressed with your allowing your ex to be in your house. I don't know who has the bigger concession to make there, but at my house it would be me. I don't allow my husband's exs in my house, one I am okay with and the other I can't stand. But my ex, I don't even actually want in the same country and I thank god he lives in a completely different state every day. I thank god my son is an adult and I don't have to deal with his father's stunning degree of asshatness every day.
Now, the most important thing about this blog today, is you. I know, in some weird AS way, it is always us, but today it really is about you. You need to start thinking about what is happening in your own brain with this situation. You can separate this in the logical sense and your logical brain tells you that this situation is sometimes unsafe and you are both volatile people and you need to get rid of this insane need to stay on something to the point where the farmer understands that the only thing that you understand is when he physically pushes you rather than emotionally pushes you. We all know that you don't get that at all.
The other part of this is the part that is happening in your little girl brain with needing to be understood and growing up in this volatile, abusive way that taught you that you can't be understood and if you are put away, then everything will be better. So, as an adult, you know that you need to go away until you can have a grip on your feelings and can actually handle them again. But….there's this other part of you that knows that you have communication skills and that you are very good at communicating in every other aspect of your life, just not that part that requires you to actually have more than a 5 minute continuous relationship with someone. So, your instinct is to yell louder because obviously the farmer is stupid and can't hear what you are trying to say. The farmer, however, just wants you to shut up, because he knows that once your emotions are a little more in perspective, you won't need to yell at him to be understood because you will be able to look at it in that objective way that you approach everything else because it is so difficult to form a relationship with anyone.
So, you have different needs. I understand this awful way of balancing relationships so well, that it is terrifying to watch someone doing it so badly. I will just tell you what worked for me. I finally realised that I cannot control myself when I am very upset about something that is happening with my husband. So, I tell him that I am going to go and have a crockery moment or he tells me that I need to have a crockery moment. It's been many years since I've actually thrown crockery in our house, but sometimes I need to go into the kitchen and contemplate it and commune with the idea while I yell about what ever problem it is that we are having at the top of my lungs. My husband usually just stands back or in another room, sometimes in the car or another house entirely and lets this happen. And then he tries to come at me again in his logical non-threatening daddy way which usually results in a death threat. By this time, I am usually crying and much more approachable because I am portraying that I don't want to be approached even though for some reason that one thing that I really want is for him to let me curl up on his lap and cry and scream and for him to say "It's okay, baby". He has learned to weather the storm until I get here to this point of wanting but not wanting to be comforted.
I'm sure that I piss him off plenty and he usually walks away from me because he is the saner of the two of us, by far. It is a very difficult dance. But once we learned this dance of bobbing and weaving and sometimes someone even says they are sorry for being the big giant butthead that he is, then life at our house got less volatile.
We still have moments, but I don't think he's felt like hitting me for awhile (he never did, but I think he probably considered it a time or two), and I certainly haven't had a gigantic blow up directed entirely at him for awhile. I am learning to not bottle this frustration that I feel with people in general, up inside of me. He is learning that I can't be like everyone else and that is why he loves me, not hates me. You have to remember this sometimes. We are infuriating people to live with.
Overall, I learned that my anger at him is usually when I get that daddy feeling. That feeling that he doesn't accept me for who and what I am so how can he love me and support me? When the little warning light goes off in my head that I am about to step into "play back the really bad emotional experiences" tape, I just try to stop and remember that that is the garbage I brought into the relationship, not his.
Wow, this almost turned into its own little blog, and in fact, I'm considering copying and pasting it into my blog. But I will send it to you first. Just remember that I am not a shrink, I just spent way too much time with them as a kid, like you did. I'm just another lost little autistic girl trying to navigate this universe in a fog. Like you.
Posted by Katey Jane on September 27, 2011 at 1:16 pm | permalink |
Penelope, I so relate to this blog today. Especially this difficult balancing act of relationships that you have with the men in your life. Most significantly your dad. It is very daunting to parent a child on the spectrum, most especially a girl. I live in this same bizarre boat with my dad. I try to forgive him all of the parenting transgressions, but I still want him to love me and support me. The problem becomes that my dad feels he can love me and support me without actually accepting me the way that I am. (He is still, even after 42 years, waiting for me to wake up and be normal.) I don't know how you can love and support someone without accepting them.
Let me say here, that I'm pretty impressed with your allowing your ex to be in your house. I don't know who has the bigger concession to make there, but at my house it would be me. I don't allow my husband's exs in my house, one I am okay with and the other I can't stand. But my ex, I don't even actually want in the same country and I thank god he lives in a completely different state every day. I thank god my son is an adult and I don't have to deal with his father's stunning degree of asshatness every day.
Now, the most important thing about this blog today, is you. I know, in some weird AS way, it is always us, but today it really is about you. You need to start thinking about what is happening in your own brain with this situation. You can separate this in the logical sense and your logical brain tells you that this situation is sometimes unsafe and you are both volatile people and you need to get rid of this insane need to stay on something to the point where the farmer understands that the only thing that you understand is when he physically pushes you rather than emotionally pushes you. We all know that you don't get that at all.
The other part of this is the part that is happening in your little girl brain with needing to be understood and growing up in this volatile, abusive way that taught you that you can't be understood and if you are put away, then everything will be better. So, as an adult, you know that you need to go away until you can have a grip on your feelings and can actually handle them again. But….there's this other part of you that knows that you have communication skills and that you are very good at communicating in every other aspect of your life, just not that part that requires you to actually have more than a 5 minute continuous relationship with someone. So, your instinct is to yell louder because obviously the farmer is stupid and can't hear what you are trying to say. The farmer, however, just wants you to shut up, because he knows that once your emotions are a little more in perspective, you won't need to yell at him to be understood because you will be able to look at it in that objective way that you approach everything else because it is so difficult to form a relationship with anyone.
So, you have different needs. I understand this awful way of balancing relationships so well, that it is terrifying to watch someone doing it so badly. I will just tell you what worked for me. I finally realised that I cannot control myself when I am very upset about something that is happening with my husband. So, I tell him that I am going to go and have a crockery moment or he tells me that I need to have a crockery moment. It's been many years since I've actually thrown crockery in our house, but sometimes I need to go into the kitchen and contemplate it and commune with the idea while I yell about what ever problem it is that we are having at the top of my lungs. My husband usually just stands back or in another room, sometimes in the car or another house entirely and lets this happen. And then he tries to come at me again in his logical non-threatening daddy way which usually results in a death threat. By this time, I am usually crying and much more approachable because I am portraying that I don't want to be approached even though for some reason that one thing that I really want is for him to let me curl up on his lap and cry and scream and for him to say "It's okay, baby". He has learned to weather the storm until I get here to this point of wanting but not wanting to be comforted.
I'm sure that I piss him off plenty and he usually walks away from me because he is the saner of the two of us, by far. It is a very difficult dance. But once we learned this dance of bobbing and weaving and sometimes someone even says they are sorry for being the big giant butthead that he is, then life at our house got less volatile.
We still have moments, but I don't think he's felt like hitting me for awhile (he never did, but I think he probably considered it a time or two), and I certainly haven't had a gigantic blow up directed entirely at him for awhile. I am learning to not bottle this frustration that I feel with people in general, up inside of me. He is learning that I can't be like everyone else and that is why he loves me, not hates me. You have to remember this sometimes. We are infuriating people to live with.
Overall, I learned that my anger at him is usually when I get that daddy feeling. That feeling that he doesn't accept me for who and what I am so how can he love me and support me? When the little warning light goes off in my head that I am about to step into "play back the really bad emotional experiences" tape, I just try to stop and remember that that is the garbage I brought into the relationship, not his.
Wow, this almost turned into its own little blog, and in fact, I'm considering copying and pasting it into my blog. But I will send it to you first. Just remember that I am not a shrink, I just spent way too much time with them as a kid, like you did. I'm just another lost little autistic girl trying to navigate this universe in a fog. Like you.
Posted by Katey Jane on September 27, 2011 at 1:16 pm | permalink |
Penelope, I so relate to this blog today. Especially this difficult balancing act of relationships that you have with the men in your life. Most significantly your dad. It is very daunting to parent a child on the spectrum, most especially a girl. I live in this same bizarre boat with my dad. I try to forgive him all of the parenting transgressions, but I still want him to love me and support me. The problem becomes that my dad feels he can love me and support me without actually accepting me the way that I am. (He is still, even after 42 years, waiting for me to wake up and be normal.) I don't know how you can love and support someone without accepting them.
Let me say here, that I'm pretty impressed with your allowing your ex to be in your house. I don't know who has the bigger concession to make there, but at my house it would be me. I don't allow my husband's exs in my house, one I am okay with and the other I can't stand. But my ex, I don't even actually want in the same country and I thank god he lives in a completely different state every day. I thank god my son is an adult and I don't have to deal with his father's stunning degree of asshatness every day.
Now, the most important thing about this blog today, is you. I know, in some weird AS way, it is always us, but today it really is about you. You need to start thinking about what is happening in your own brain with this situation. You can separate this in the logical sense and your logical brain tells you that this situation is sometimes unsafe and you are both volatile people and you need to get rid of this insane need to stay on something to the point where the farmer understands that the only thing that you understand is when he physically pushes you rather than emotionally pushes you. We all know that you don't get that at all.
The other part of this is the part that is happening in your little girl brain with needing to be understood and growing up in this volatile, abusive way that taught you that you can't be understood and if you are put away, then everything will be better. So, as an adult, you know that you need to go away until you can have a grip on your feelings and can actually handle them again. But….there's this other part of you that knows that you have communication skills and that you are very good at communicating in every other aspect of your life, just not that part that requires you to actually have more than a 5 minute continuous relationship with someone. So, your instinct is to yell louder because obviously the farmer is stupid and can't hear what you are trying to say. The farmer, however, just wants you to shut up, because he knows that once your emotions are a little more in perspective, you won't need to yell at him to be understood because you will be able to look at it in that objective way that you approach everything else because it is so difficult to form a relationship with anyone.
So, you have different needs. I understand this awful way of balancing relationships so well, that it is terrifying to watch someone doing it so badly. I will just tell you what worked for me. I finally realised that I cannot control myself when I am very upset about something that is happening with my husband. So, I tell him that I am going to go and have a crockery moment or he tells me that I need to have a crockery moment. It's been many years since I've actually thrown crockery in our house, but sometimes I need to go into the kitchen and contemplate it and commune with the idea while I yell about what ever problem it is that we are having at the top of my lungs. My husband usually just stands back or in another room, sometimes in the car or another house entirely and lets this happen. And then he tries to come at me again in his logical non-threatening daddy way which usually results in a death threat. By this time, I am usually crying and much more approachable because I am portraying that I don't want to be approached even though for some reason that one thing that I really want is for him to let me curl up on his lap and cry and scream and for him to say "It's okay, baby". He has learned to weather the storm until I get here to this point of wanting but not wanting to be comforted.
I'm sure that I piss him off plenty and he usually walks away from me because he is the saner of the two of us, by far. It is a very difficult dance. But once we learned this dance of bobbing and weaving and sometimes someone even says they are sorry for being the big giant butthead that he is, then life at our house got less volatile.
We still have moments, but I don't think he's felt like hitting me for awhile (he never did, but I think he probably considered it a time or two), and I certainly haven't had a gigantic blow up directed entirely at him for awhile. I am learning to not bottle this frustration that I feel with people in general, up inside of me. He is learning that I can't be like everyone else and that is why he loves me, not hates me. You have to remember this sometimes. We are infuriating people to live with.
Overall, I learned that my anger at him is usually when I get that daddy feeling. That feeling that he doesn't accept me for who and what I am so how can he love me and support me? When the little warning light goes off in my head that I am about to step into "play back the really bad emotional experiences" tape, I just try to stop and remember that that is the garbage I brought into the relationship, not his.
Wow, this almost turned into its own little blog, and in fact, I'm considering copying and pasting it into my blog. But I will send it to you first. Just remember that I am not a shrink, I just spent way too much time with them as a kid, like you did. I'm just another lost little autistic girl trying to navigate this universe in a fog. Like you.
Posted by Katey Jane on September 27, 2011 at 1:16 pm | permalink |
Hi, there!
Where is your blog? You smart woman, you! Smart and wise.
I don't think I am autistic, but I certainly have PTSD and clinical depression. I am learning a lot from Penelope and would like the opportunity to learn from you.
How do I find your blog?
Hugs, if you want them,
Posted by Evy on September 27, 2011 at 5:27 pm | permalink |
Hi, there!
Where is your blog? You smart woman, you! Smart and wise.
I don't think I am autistic, but I certainly have PTSD and clinical depression. I am learning a lot from Penelope and would like the opportunity to learn from you.
How do I find your blog?
Hugs, if you want them,
Posted by Evy on September 27, 2011 at 5:27 pm | permalink |
you can leave, you can walk away, you can let the farmer walk away. (which, i am going to guess he was trying to do when he crushed your foot – you put your foot in front of the door to keep him from leaving. right?) You have already repeated this cycle 3 times yet you say your therapist is fantastic. I am thinking, maybe not so much? What does your therapist think of this situation?
you are my sister (only our parents were saints, comparatively) i understand your point of view 100% and why you stay. (not that i think you should, but if i write all that this post will be far too long)
i wish i could hug you and listen to you talk (or IM) about it for hours while you hash it out in your head. you need hours. try to write and, as someone said, research it to death. you cope by analyzing things to the point of unemotional as a coping mechanism. write about it in perhaps a new section. share what you learn and help others like you are doing with the homeschooling section. maybe you will accidentally help yourself along the way (it worked for your career)
Posted by Kate Goodyear on September 27, 2011 at 1:16 pm | permalink |
you can leave, you can walk away, you can let the farmer walk away. (which, i am going to guess he was trying to do when he crushed your foot – you put your foot in front of the door to keep him from leaving. right?) You have already repeated this cycle 3 times yet you say your therapist is fantastic. I am thinking, maybe not so much? What does your therapist think of this situation?
you are my sister (only our parents were saints, comparatively) i understand your point of view 100% and why you stay. (not that i think you should, but if i write all that this post will be far too long)
i wish i could hug you and listen to you talk (or IM) about it for hours while you hash it out in your head. you need hours. try to write and, as someone said, research it to death. you cope by analyzing things to the point of unemotional as a coping mechanism. write about it in perhaps a new section. share what you learn and help others like you are doing with the homeschooling section. maybe you will accidentally help yourself along the way (it worked for your career)
Posted by Kate Goodyear on September 27, 2011 at 1:16 pm | permalink |
you can leave, you can walk away, you can let the farmer walk away. (which, i am going to guess he was trying to do when he crushed your foot – you put your foot in front of the door to keep him from leaving. right?) You have already repeated this cycle 3 times yet you say your therapist is fantastic. I am thinking, maybe not so much? What does your therapist think of this situation?
you are my sister (only our parents were saints, comparatively) i understand your point of view 100% and why you stay. (not that i think you should, but if i write all that this post will be far too long)
i wish i could hug you and listen to you talk (or IM) about it for hours while you hash it out in your head. you need hours. try to write and, as someone said, research it to death. you cope by analyzing things to the point of unemotional as a coping mechanism. write about it in perhaps a new section. share what you learn and help others like you are doing with the homeschooling section. maybe you will accidentally help yourself along the way (it worked for your career)
Posted by Kate Goodyear on September 27, 2011 at 1:16 pm | permalink |
Your dad really, truly sucks. Women's shelter? What kind of parent doesn't offer to take his kid in during a crisis, no matter how crazy he believes her to be.
No advice, because I doubt you will leave. Prove me (one of your snarkiest jackass readers) wrong.
Posted by Brad on September 27, 2011 at 1:21 pm | permalink |
Given the history, why would Penelope WANT to stay with her father?
Here's what I don't understand: you can't go to a shelter because you're famous? What does that have to do with your well-being and that of your children?
Throughout this post you describe highly dysfunctional relationships, but you seem MOST worried about your public and their opinion of you. That does not seem like an appropriate priority under the circumstances.
Everything you do teaches your children. (You know this. It's why you decided to home school them.) What are they learning from this?
They are learning about conflict, andâin my opinionâthey are learning really unhealthy ways of dealing with anger and disagreement and emotional hurt. The commenter above who said that you and the Farmer need to learn how to "fight fair" is absolutely right.
If the two of you cannot learn how to resolve conflict without cruelty and violence, you shouldn't stay together. It's bad for you, and bad for your children. If you think there's little prospect of learning those skills and putting them into practice, or if you even suspect that the physical violence is going to escalate, you need to leave right now.
Worrying about your image and your audience can and should wait.
Posted by Anonymous on September 27, 2011 at 5:02 pm | permalink |
She brought up being famous to mask how hurt she was he didn't fly to her rescue. Read it again really carefully. We went from vulnerability to narcissism in 30 seconds. What happened in between? Gut-wrenching pain at daddy's continued lack of interest in her.
Posted by Valerie on September 28, 2011 at 3:24 am | permalink |
Your dad really, truly sucks. Women's shelter? What kind of parent doesn't offer to take his kid in during a crisis, no matter how crazy he believes her to be.
No advice, because I doubt you will leave. Prove me (one of your snarkiest jackass readers) wrong.
Posted by Brad on September 27, 2011 at 1:21 pm | permalink |
Penelope, you're getting lots of comments, directives, and advice about your relationship. Reading your blog over time, I've come to understand that you can and will sort yourself out on that front.
I want to comment about exposing yourself in this way. Your fear of being a fraud, and the concomitant need to out yourself to see how others will react.
A bit more than 10 years ago, I spent a good chunk of time in the Middle East. All over. Lebanon, Israel, Turkey, Palestine, Jordan. All of it. Even lived through a couple of large earthquakes there.
When I came home, I was broken. The work I'd been doing was for an international NGO, and it was draining work in an even more draining environment. The Middle East is a hard place to Be … much less to live.
Anyway, I owed the NGO one last article (kind of pre-blogging) to distribute to their donor base to show the goodness/power of the work they were doing.
The article was about my brokenness. About my desolation. About the fact that I'd been writing for this audience for years as a strong, informed, and talented young woman and that, in truth, I was none of those.
The editor freaked out. He didn't want to publish it. He said that it would expose me too much to people. I told him to publish it anyway. He did.
It was honesty in the middle of fluff.
That's what you've done here today. Thank you for doing it, whatever may come.
Posted by christy on September 27, 2011 at 1:21 pm | permalink |
Penelope, you're getting lots of comments, directives, and advice about your relationship. Reading your blog over time, I've come to understand that you can and will sort yourself out on that front.
I want to comment about exposing yourself in this way. Your fear of being a fraud, and the concomitant need to out yourself to see how others will react.
A bit more than 10 years ago, I spent a good chunk of time in the Middle East. All over. Lebanon, Israel, Turkey, Palestine, Jordan. All of it. Even lived through a couple of large earthquakes there.
When I came home, I was broken. The work I'd been doing was for an international NGO, and it was draining work in an even more draining environment. The Middle East is a hard place to Be … much less to live.
Anyway, I owed the NGO one last article (kind of pre-blogging) to distribute to their donor base to show the goodness/power of the work they were doing.
The article was about my brokenness. About my desolation. About the fact that I'd been writing for this audience for years as a strong, informed, and talented young woman and that, in truth, I was none of those.
The editor freaked out. He didn't want to publish it. He said that it would expose me too much to people. I told him to publish it anyway. He did.
It was honesty in the middle of fluff.
That's what you've done here today. Thank you for doing it, whatever may come.
Posted by christy on September 27, 2011 at 1:21 pm | permalink |
Penelope: You have kids. You have strength. Model wisely.
Posted by Su T Fitterman on September 27, 2011 at 1:25 pm | permalink |
Penelope…I'm not going to say anything you don't already know (you need to leave, etc…). My heart breaks for you. Maybe you are emotionally abusive – I don't know, I don't live with you. But even if you are, a marriage shouldn't be "An eye for an eye" arrangement. No real man would ever push a woman.
I really think you need to look to other people for support and emotional help, though. Not the man who did you wrong first, paving the way for how you feel about yourself deep down.
Posted by Lindsay | The Daily Awe on September 27, 2011 at 1:27 pm | permalink |
I don't even know what to say anymore. It is too much. You need to do something. But I wouldn't know what to tell you. I wish you the best though, in trying to figure this all out.
I have been telling you for a while now that you DO NOT belong out in rural America. It is not good for you. I was there once. It was bad in all ways except the garden.
You don't have to go back to NY City. There are other places besides NY. A happy medium between the horrors of rural living (yes I said horrors) and the scariness of living at ground zero. Maybe here in Boston, or San Francisco.
Leave that place already!!!!!!!!!!! There I said it.
Posted by Roberta on September 27, 2011 at 1:28 pm | permalink |
Thank you for your honesty. You have taken a quantum leap in disengaging yourself from the Nightmare Your Father started…. Oprah says; "Once We Accept We Never Had a Family Is when We Start to Own ourselves and Leave the Abuse Behind"..
Oprah did it with her Family… It was all too much a nightmare memory.. She detached and found her self and family that is Much More Her…and of course GREW immensely finding her Truth which enabled her to have extreme success.. she earned.. and in the end was reunited with her family but on HER TERMS…. ( your father is not aware of who you really are and never will be. Just like your ex and now husband never will as this is how abusers behave.. They CANNOT see You.. Only Themselves)
It is time to stop gumbytizing Yourself to the Initial Pattern of Abuse that created Your Hell in first Place.. Last Sunday meal was a good requiem in leaving your past behind… Your father, Your Ex and Your now husband…You are going to have to move out of the farmers House… as to stay, all you are doing is ignoring and defending his behavior which will never add up to the fantasy you want…
The only Good Thing about this… A better situation awaits You…
Where You have all you want in Reality not the fantasy you keep trying to contort the Farmer into and your son's father into… and Especially this " Dad" into.Yes You can forgive… but you cannot keep these people attached in your life.. It does not matter that your father has a great wife now… and has been in therapy.. Walking away from those who abused you… and accepting YOU NEVER HAD FAMILY.. as none of these people behaved with LOVE…towards You… Acceptance… etc… YOU ARE NOT THE PROBLEM..It is you just keep surrounding yourself with People who cannot comprehend You…
The Farmer needs treatment.. He is extremely immature.. It is not funny anymore.. If he wants to be in your life.. He needs therapy to find himself.. and this is not going to happen with the dynamics of you living there with him… Why people go into rehab.. to block out others from their lives.. etc.. to get clear… YOU ARE NOT THE PROBLEM..THE FARMER IS..Please call Dr. Susan Weitzman 312.444.1777 She is in Chicago and returns calls herself.
She will know places and situations you can go to.. Madison is also very resourceful in educating about Domestic Violence.. Sure there are areas in University dealing with as it . As Domestic Violence is a Mental Health crisis now as behind every addiction, depression, acting out is a History of person being abused… It is the reality…It is BEHAVIORS that have to be addressed.. and you can no longer live with the Behaviors of these men in your life.Making excuses for them as You LOVE Them ??? Great but they do NOT KNOW WHAT LOVE is.. to return it to you.
http://www.theweitzmancenter.org/ She is author of Not to People Like Us – Hidden Abuse in Upscale Marriageswww.nottopeoplelikeus.com/
In her book, Not to People Like Us, Dr. Susan Weitzman explores a heretofore overlooked population of battered wives–the highly-educated and upper-income …It would be great if you and Dr Weitzman can team up to educate on this epidemic.. that effects 99% of woman and children as non of us have the $$'s to live.. and the males who control the $$'s have not have grown up and found themselves use that to control those around them… Here is a whole new platform of writing that will make you much more money !! Amplify the message and of course give you many more topics to write about.. As your readership is not going to accept the Farmer Battering you as this is living with Ignorance and Stupidity… I was a Target who walked away from a lifetime of abuse via family.. which made me only find abusers in my personal life as it is the only world I knew. There is NOTHING LIKE REAL FREEDOM… You and Your sons deserve of dignitygracewithbeauty that is OUR RIGHT as Humans..We are witnessing this Domestic Violence on Wall Street now and witnessed in WI this past year in Madison… It is being exposed now for what it is.. and It is running everyones lives and it is very wrong.. The only way to STOP it is to protest.. and it will be worth every second in leaving this wonderful home you created at the Farmers to STAND Up for Your gorgeous Beauty and the LIFE YOU DESERVE…. and Have the Right to… You OWE nothing to the Farmer, to your EX or to your Family.. Time to take yourselves and your son's to life the feeds you, nurtures you, loves you.. Not drains You and castrates you..Sacrificing a Dream with Farmer that was NOT REAL to begin with as he is stuck in ignorance..will be Well Worth all you reap in the future, personally, mentally, spiritually, financially from leaving the Fantasy behind for Real Life… You do not have to SEARCH for the nuggets in people.. There are tons of people out there once you push Abuse out of your life that live in the giving of NUGGETS of Joy and Life 24/7 as they surrendered to selves, evolved and live in the PRESENT MOMENT with LOVE.
Posted by Cas Rose on September 27, 2011 at 1:31 pm | permalink |
Penelope, This is the first time I've ever commented on a blog or post from someone I didn't know personally. This post really got to me for several reasons. First, I really like you. You're smart and gutsy and loyal all wrapped up in one. I've wondered about some of the posts about the farmer because they cut close to home for me. I was smart enought to tell my ex-husband when we started dating that if he ever hit me, it would be over. I wasn't smart enough to add verbal and emotional abuse to that statement. Penelope, a lot of what you write shows the farmer being both emotionally and verbally abusive to you. So many people find physical abuse so appalling that they don't see the damage emotional and verbal abuse causes. I don't see both sides, obviously, but I relate to what I read you've done as how I would have reacted to my ex. I see you as a smart, competent woman. And I guess the only thing I want to get across to you is that you are worth it. You are worthy of love and respect. You have made a life on your own before and you can do it again. You are worthy of happiness and joy and peace. My thoughts are with you. ~j
Posted by Jana on September 27, 2011 at 1:32 pm | permalink |
Hey Penelope,
I wish we could sit down and talk, instead of me trying to type out something meaningful in a blog comment. Our mutual friend Tina Su first introduced me to you & the blog, and I've really enjoyed your writing. I'm a family practice physician, and I've had both friends and patients with Aspergers, as well as friends and patients who have struggled with challenging relationships. I'm going to resist giving you advice, because I realize I don't know your situation well enough to summarily dispense what will surely work for you. We humans are a curious lot: we have great capacity to love & to hurt, both intentionally and unintentionally. Perhaps I can best offer a simple affirmation: you ARE a wonderful person, even with all the things you'd like to change about yourself, you DO make a tremendous positive impact on many, many people (including me), even when you doubt that you can't do anything right, and you WILL find the right path in this difficult situation. Thank you again so much for being YOU.
Posted by John on September 27, 2011 at 1:32 pm | permalink |
Trying to figure out how these three guys can have dinner with you given all the things past and present and that they turn out to all have had stamp collections. What are the odds. Not sure I understand what imposter syndrome is but I can tell this from the post, this is not a good circumstance. You have described so many ordeals in your life, none of which I have ever had, I just don't know what to say. Your kids seem great, your posts tell me you are dynamic, talented, and savvy. You have to consider changing your circumstance. Surprised you called your dad. You need to try and find some tranquility somewhere. I find myself after reading this giving thanks for my family and my peaceful life. Know you are loved by readers, your kids, God and I am sure others. Find peace in loving others and yourself. And consider living in a place where no one pushes you around.
Posted by Don on September 27, 2011 at 1:34 pm | permalink |
Oh and PS. If you don't get out for yourself, then do it for your children.
Posted by Roberta on September 27, 2011 at 1:34 pm | permalink |
Penelope, what do you want from the Farmer? Do you want him to completely snap and lose it? Or do you expect endless calm and patience? Do you want a dramatic rollercoaster of a relationship or would you be content with peace and plodding along? While the Farmer of course has to take responsibility for how he handles his frustrations, you also have to acknowledge that your actions have consequences. You are both to blame and both victims. People won't leave you because your situation is all too common but this doesn't make it okay. Please stop hurting each other. And remember, psychological abuse can be just as damaging as physical abuse.
Posted by Nat on September 27, 2011 at 1:37 pm | permalink |
Occasionally, someone will link to your blog, and I will read it. You are a very good writer, congratulations for making money with your writing.
However, every time I read one of your posts, I come away thinking that you all have one f++ked up family. The tension in your home must be palpable.
People really should not be taking your advice, because you are too screwed up in how you are living.
This is the worst post I've read yet. What kind of masochist are you? You know you should get out – the Farmer will be livid that you have divulged this and could very well be more abusive.
You are fooling yourself. I'll say a prayer, yes to Jesus, for your safety.
Posted by Beth Donovan on September 27, 2011 at 1:41 pm | permalink |
OMG … You said this perfectly!!! THANK YOU
Posted by Mrs.SD on September 27, 2011 at 11:54 pm | permalink |
* correction* I meant my comment for Beth… Perfectly said Beth!
Posted by Mrs.SD on September 27, 2011 at 11:57 pm | permalink |
Occasionally, someone will link to your blog, and I will read it. You are a very good writer, congratulations for making money with your writing.
However, every time I read one of your posts, I come away thinking that you all have one f++ked up family. The tension in your home must be palpable.
People really should not be taking your advice, because you are too screwed up in how you are living.
This is the worst post I've read yet. What kind of masochist are you? You know you should get out – the Farmer will be livid that you have divulged this and could very well be more abusive.
You are fooling yourself. I'll say a prayer, yes to Jesus, for your safety.
Posted by Beth Donovan on September 27, 2011 at 1:41 pm | permalink |
Sometimes the zipper breaks. It's easy to freak out because you think "HEY! This zipper isn't supposed to break! What the hell!? I promised people this was a good zipper." But then you fix the zipper, it costs five bucks and all is well. Or, worse case, you just get a whole new bag and once again, all is well. I know you'll find your solution. Keep looking for it.
Posted by Alesya on September 27, 2011 at 1:43 pm | permalink |
You may feel like you can't (or don't need to) go to a shelter, but I'm betting they have a hotline you can call, to talk with trained counselors. And they'll have other services too, that aren't just for the women living in the shelter. Start w/ http://www.abuseintervention.org/help.html or http://www.familyadv.org/.
I'm sorry this has happened.
Posted by Anonymous on September 27, 2011 at 1:45 pm | permalink |
You may feel like you can't (or don't need to) go to a shelter, but I'm betting they have a hotline you can call, to talk with trained counselors. And they'll have other services too, that aren't just for the women living in the shelter. Start w/ http://www.abuseintervention.org/help.html or http://www.familyadv.org/.
I'm sorry this has happened.
Posted by Anonymous on September 27, 2011 at 1:45 pm | permalink |
Penelope, you are a talented writer and observer of life.When you stop observing and needing the love of people who seem as though they don't have it to give,what is it that you would really like to do next? Where do you want to go next? Who do you want to be next? And, what's with the testing of your readers? Haven't you had just about enough of testing in your own life?
Love ya
marie
Posted by Marie Taylor on September 27, 2011 at 1:53 pm | permalink |
try alanon.
Posted by emily on September 27, 2011 at 4:32 pm | permalink |
Two things:
Any physical abuse in front of a child, as you describe, is intolerable. It will escalate. Get out!
I hope you don't have any firearms in your home. Anyone who has read your blog since you have married the farmer knows that this is headed in a dreadful direction. Get out!
Posted by SuzyMcq on September 27, 2011 at 1:59 pm | permalink |
If you won't leave because you don't think it's "that bad" and because you love him, please think about your kids. Almost all adults who are abusive have been abused as children or witnessed violence in their home. Is this the future that you want for them?
I worked in a domestic abuse shelter. The women, on average, went back to their husbands 8 times before they left for good. By the time they come to the shelter for good, their kids are either really, really quiet and timid about talking to adults or really unruly because they'll be punished either way. They expect adults to scream and/or hit them. If you won't leave because you love the Farmer, have your kids live with your ex. They don't need to witness physical abuse.
Nobody ever deserves physical abuse.
Posted by Carioegypt1234 on September 27, 2011 at 2:00 pm | permalink |
Please wake up.
Posted by Michelle on September 27, 2011 at 2:10 pm | permalink |
You are a very good woman. You need to be with a man who has enough sense and room to retreat into when things get difficult for him or you. His job is to love you and to support you and your boys. Obviously, that means backing off when things get difficult. You deserve a better deal than this; the farmer has to retreat instead of confronting you. I don't know what you should do. If you can't leave, try to structure some sort of timeout places for both of you, like neutral corners for boxers in the ring. Again, you are a very good woman, but making a relationship with you and your boys work requires unconventional skills. I never had a stamp collection, and never will.
Posted by Eric F. Carlson on September 27, 2011 at 2:12 pm | permalink |
Peace to you.
Posted by Anon on September 27, 2011 at 2:18 pm | permalink |
Penelope, I think you and the farmer need a timeout.
You have Aspergers. Maybe you need some kind of treatment or help so that you can have better interactions with the farmer. Maybe you don't realize when he is pissed, or that you do things — not on purpose– that piss him off.
Maybe you need some time away from the farmer to think about things like this.
Posted by guest on September 27, 2011 at 2:28 pm | permalink |
Why does being famous mean you can't go to a shelter? Was it just because you expected him to set you up with something fancier, or invite you and the kids to stay with him?
No real advice, except, pay attention to your thoughts, but don't believe everything you think.
Posted by Midianite Manna on September 27, 2011 at 2:36 pm | permalink |
Also, check your Twitter messages.
Posted by Midianite Manna on September 27, 2011 at 2:40 pm | permalink |
Sydnew is exactly right. You are emotionally abusive to him. You have cited many examples in your own blog. But that gives him no right to hit you (or shout and break things as you have written about before). One of you needs to leave before something really bad happens. In front of your kids.
Posted by 1134tf on September 27, 2011 at 2:39 pm | permalink |
I get it. I really really get it. Because my dad used to beat me up; broken bones, concussions & the whole 9 yards. I dodged the sexual abuse bullet by a thread and STILL in my adulthood I took my dad into my appartement when he needed it. I still talked to him after he stole thousands of dollars from me.
The bottom of the barrel for me was when he called my sister, drunk, and left this message on her awnswering machine: "F*** YOU!" And hung up. My sister who's been looking for his attention all these years while I was making sure all his attention was focused on me and not her for her own safety.
Took me 33 years to figure out that even though it's not fair and that you love someone, it's still not up to you to fix someone who doesn't give a rat's ass about you except for the power they get from you. For the record, and because I wish someone had told ME way earlier: this isn't the way people who love each other really behave. Really.
Best of luck and don't get sucked into the "honeymoon phase" from after a fight.
Posted by Marie on September 27, 2011 at 2:40 pm | permalink |
Maybe you think it's not that bad because it is better than your childhood.
Maybe you feel that something is wrong if there's not an incredible intensity between you and the farmer.
Posted by guest on September 27, 2011 at 2:42 pm | permalink |
I have an idea – you wrote a post about having too many decisions to make, and I am feeling like for whatever reason (ie. your asperger's, your past abuse, whatever) you are not feeling capable of making the right decisions here. How about if you let a trusted friend make some decisions for you for a little while with regards to the farmer and your living situation. I know it sounds crazy, but I'm serious. Consider it – a true "personal" assistant. If it's a trusted friend, you can feel confident and certain they will do what's best for you.
Of course you should leave, but you know that. I beg you to leave for the chidren if you don't do it for yourself. A child should feel safe in his own home. Your children are probably so afraid for you right now, they're already being damaged. The neurological make-up of their brain is already being changed by the abuse they've witnessed. My father wasn't abusive, but my parents argued a lot and I'll never forget the day he threatened my mother. Just the reminder of my fear that ONE day practically gives me a panic attack this very minute. I can't imagine what it's like for a child to be on constant high alert from such fear for years. My partner was in an abusive home for the first 10 or so years of his life. He's still very angry at times out of proportion to what a situation calls for. He's quick-tempered, has an aggressive nature (easily defensive, road rage), and doesn't realize there's anything wrong with the fact he used to get into fist fights constantly as a young man/young adult. It won't take much for your kids to be damaged. And you certainly don't want to wait until the farmer starts abusing the children too. Don't justify keeping your children in this situation by saying that you survived abuse in your childhood and turned out all right – because you're not. And just because you survived, doesn't mean your children should have to deal with it too. Please, please, please get them out of that house. I don't just mean send them to school. They should literally not be living there.
One last thought. The principal of your child's former school reads your blog. Don't be surprised if social services is given a heads-up to the abuse in your home. You're famous. They will get serious heat for not stepping in if/when it becomes appropriate. They will be on alert (as perhaps they should be). I would be so afraid they would take my kids away or afraid of just the mere threat of the possiblity. I know that doesn't scare you because you don't believe it would happen. I wish it did scare you just a little to give you something bigger than yourself to consider – your children. Hell, I think the embarrassment alone of my community knowing I'm abused and still living there would be enough to send me packing.
How about if you go buy yourself a small little farmhouse somewhere. You don't have to work an actual farm (there are plenty of old farm houses in Wisconsin where the old barn has already been torn down). If you can afford it, hire one person (a tutor, nanny, whatever) to engage, tutor, hang out with your kids part-time during the week so you have a little time to get yourself back on your feet in a new home for you and your boys. I know if it were me, I would not want to put them back in school, even if just for a short while, but if you must, then consider it just temporary. Try to stay relatively close to their biological dad if that is feasible (I can't remember/don't know how his relationship is with his boys – would it be good for them to be closer to their dad?) If you put them in school for a little while, I assure you you can get them caught up when they start homeschooling again a few years down the road. ANY action that you take RIGHT NOW towards getting yourself and your precious boys out of that house is the right step to take. Once you do that, the details will work themselves out. You're a survivor. Don't just survive abuse – THRIVE in a life that you and your boys deserve. All you have to do is walk out that door.
I really do mean to sign off, but I have another idea. If you won't leave for yourself – leave for the sake of using this as material for your business. Research the hell out of abuse. Lead by example so you can tell your story about how you got out. Break down the barriers to leaving an abuser in your blog so other abused men/women can read and be convinced they don't have to be afraid of leaving – there are options, there are choices, and they WILL survive on your promise. Too naive? Maybe, but I don't think so. You have an opportunity to reach a lot of people with a message like this. Maybe not all the abused read your blog, but maybe they have a friend, co-worker, or someone else in their life who does and will give them a link. So, this can be another reason for you to go. I'll keep thinking up new ones if you need more than just yourself as reason good enough – which you are. You place so much importance on career sucess, but I don't think you realize that sucess in one's personal life is so very much more important in life and necessary for true happiness. And that's life-changing information.
Here's another – the flip side. If you don't leave the farmer, I think you surely will lose some readers. For some reason, some people can't stand to be around people who are abused and who refuse to leave. They can't stand to see the pain. I would have never believed it until I knew someone who literally walked away from a friend who was being abused but refused to leave. The person I know literally told her friend, if you can't leave, I can't stand to sit by and watch, and just like that they were no longer friends. I couldn't believe she had the gall to do that - turn her back on a friend who needed her. So, I guess, when people feel helpless, they have to just walk away from the pain they can't to see. Your readers who can't stand to read your pain will have to leave.
Something else – you staying in an abusive home may very well be something that causes you to lose credibility with your readers. One person in this comment thread already questioned your credibility in giving advice about life when you can't even leave an abusive relationship and questioned your judgment coming from an abusive past.
Isn't it true that you and the farmer are not legally married? I thought I read that you had an unofficial ceremony but you didn't legally get married for financial and family reasons. If that's truly the case, then you can feel free to leave that farm and never have to look back - even during the 6-month waiting period it takes to get a divorce in Wisconsin. You can tell the boys you're leaving because it is never acceptable to hit another person. They'll get it.
Posted by guest on September 27, 2011 at 2:45 pm | permalink |
This commenter is correct. Some of your readers will leave because they cannot respect an abused person who will not help themselves. I've prosecuted hundreds of domestic violence cases from push & shoves up to attempted murder. I know about the cycle of power and control that is a dynamic in so many of these relationships. But I eventually had to change assignments because I simply couldn't respect the majority of the victims. They recanted in case after case; returning to their abusers as bruises esclatated into broken bones. Too many times I had to incur wrath and hatred to do what they wouldn't do for themselves by ensuring that the abuser was incapcitated by jail or prison. It was a hard, bitter lesson to learn that if a person doesn't want to help him or herself, no one else can.
I hope P beats the odds; but absent a change in trajectory, I wouldn't bet on it.
Posted by Maus on September 27, 2011 at 9:06 pm | permalink |
Penelope, you were sexually abused by the father you 'love', and guess what, your kids are now being abused, by you. You are building the foundation for their future ability to have relationships, and they will not be able to have future relationship,s and of course, neither will their children. Yup, it is a circle. I broke the chain in my life. Having AS, I know I cannot have relationships. Save your kids. Too late for no damage at all, but it will help a small bit.
Posted by Vicky on September 28, 2011 at 4:15 am | permalink |
speaking of which â what does melissa say?
can you take a partial step away and leave the immediate situation, separate, and figure things out where you're physically safe? but then i imagine you are thinking you want to save the boys from a back and forth scenario.
one problem is, i think, that you imagine there is a line in the sand but then you cross that line and think, well, that wasn't SO bad, and you find a way to rationalize it, and you redraw the line further out.
i know you've invested a lot in this relationship, this house, and this country life for the boys with a new father. but those are sunk costs. i am imagining you weighing the trouble of relocating and setting up a new life, new schedule, new routines, new home, etc., and then just accepting the status quo. i hope you don't. i hope you redraw that line that says you won't stay if you get physically abused and stick to it.
Posted by Lori on September 28, 2011 at 8:34 pm | permalink |
another thought â
when you've experienced abuse as a child, it resets your boundaries. i mean, compared to what you're familiar with, being shoved across the kitchen might not feel like that big of a deal. everything's relative. in your mind, you're thinking â that's not right. that's physical abuse. but that old saying is true: what doesn't kill you makes you stronger. and if you're stronger in the broken places, then when the next guy just pushes you, you don't just crumple.
Posted by Lori on September 28, 2011 at 8:46 pm | permalink |
The problem is that her boys have already been seriously affected by their mother. You see, the smarter the boy, the plainer it is to him just how whack his mother is. Why is she hiding up on a farm?
Posted by Killerwhale681 on October 4, 2011 at 1:42 am | permalink |
"Someone raised by abusive parents never feels secure in their parenting because they don't understand what makes kids love parents. So that's my weak spot. Even if I were a great parent, I'd never believe it."
How did I never know this before? This makes so much sense.
Thank you.
Posted by Cassieboorn on September 27, 2011 at 2:46 pm | permalink |
Don't think about what you need to do to fix the situation for you or the Farmer. Think about what you need to do to fix the situation for your kids. That means leaving. Or they leave to stay with your ex-husband while you get this sorted. There's nothing that makes pushing you down onto the ground in front of your child okay. And you're complicit in the abuse if you allow them to stay in that home with or without you. See it from a 6-year-old's perspective. See it from his size and your size at that age. It was too scary seeing my dad try to throw my mom out of a window even though he didn't do it to me directly.
You can't fix what your dad did to you. But you can fix what the Farmer is doing to your kids. And you can do it with your dad's help. That's as close to fixing what your dad did as you're ever going to get.
When you ignore doing the obvious because it's obvious–like leaving a physically abusive and emotionally withholding man–that's all the more reason to do it. Do the obvious, Penelope.
Posted by Joselle Palacios on September 27, 2011 at 2:53 pm | permalink |
The Farmer is F**KED UP. It's not you. It's him. He's a loser, a jerk, an asshole, a bastard, a prick, a puke, a pariah. Farmer – if you're reading this then YOU need to go jump off a silo or a bridge, or into the path of a tractor or bus, or speeding train. Sorry P, but abusers never get better, they just get smarter at finding ways to hurt people. He's not a Christian. He's a demon pretending to be a Christian. Big diff.
As the child of a father who abused me, beat me bloody and bruised I know one thing, that you did NOTHING to deserve this. As a former police officer I know that you HAVE to leave. In almost 100% of the cases of domestic abuse ONE or BOTH partners eventually DIE. Yeah. No joke, DIE. And those numbers almost always involve the woman's death.
He's a freak. An ABSOLUTE FREAK. The bond between you is strong, but cut it. Leave. If you can't do it for you, do it for your children.
Posted by beckyblanton on September 27, 2011 at 2:56 pm | permalink |
Ramblings of a crazy woman. First, the use of ALL CAPS shows a SMOLDERING RAGE that is just under the surface.
Furthermore, you're so far off with your unsubstantiated "In almost 100% of the cases of domestic abuse ONE or BOTH partners eventually DIE." Please, Matilda.
The number is in single digits. The number I've heard from professionals is 1-3%. I used to volunteer in a woman's shelter, I did it for almost 18 years. I'll agree that the number of women who do (or should) seek medical treatment is very high.. but death? No way. Not trivializing the terrible nature of physical abuse. But you do so much damage by spewing hyperbole in the manner of a 3rd-grader.
There are many sites which have information & statistics on domestic violence & associated crimes. Just one example is: http://www.aardvarc.org/dv/statistics.shtml
So Ms. Blanton, please leave the lies, sensationalism and drama to the Hollywood script writers. I'm sorry to hear you're so emotionally invested in spreading mis-information. Maybe you need counseling.
Posted by Carla P. on September 27, 2011 at 4:29 pm | permalink |
Hi Carla : )
It's kind of tempting to respond to your post in an equally heartless manner. Yet, I've been reading all of these comments, looking over the rest of the site, and honestly trying to get a handle on the story here – it's my first time to this blog.
It seems like everyone is hoping Penelope is safe and gets help (if she wants it or can access some). That's a good thing, and she seems to have a lot of online "friends" unlike a lot of women who are isolated when dealing with abuse.
Attacking Ms. Blanton's comment (1-3% is still one too many – and no one deserves to die like that) took me by surprise. We all have been through something, we all are suppose to help one another – not add to the hurt. Thank you for volunteering in a woman's shelter – we need more folks to do that, and show up for those of us who have been abused. As a survivor, I thought Ms. Blanton's post was an honest attempt to encourage Penelope to know she may be in danger, people care and she can leave.
Leaving is sometimes the one thing we aren't sure we can do – even if we have a place to go.
Thanks for the link as well.
I'm guessing you won't care what I have to say, and that's alright, too. Just from this side of the screen, I read your response and thought, "Ouch – you really worked in a shelter? Then why would you throw hurtful words at someone who just publicly admitted they suffered abuse at a child?" I just didn't get it, but that's okay, too.
Penelope: I think you are brave to post your truth, brave to allow people to hurl their ideas at you, and it looks like (based on your site here) you are pretty well connected. I read your about page, old posts and more and it seems to me if you posted "I need a police car, a hotel to stay in anonymously and a lead on a relocation for me and my children" hundreds of people would rush in to help you – I hope you let them. . .soon.
Posted by Fizgiggy on September 29, 2011 at 5:28 am | permalink |
Oh goodness…I'm so sorry. If you are asking for advice…..No more men until the kiddos are out of the house.
jana
Posted by Jana Bedley Miller on September 27, 2011 at 2:56 pm | permalink |
Long ago, while I was recounting some ugly stuff going on in my life to a friend, she told me in a bored way (she was tired of hearing me go on and on about the same old situation over and over again) that we love drama in our lives, no matter how horrible the drama, because it is how we know we are alive.
Reading this post reminded me of that truth. Why else would a person continue to promote a relationship with a man who dumped her 15 times? Why pursue that relationship after the second dumpage? Well, really, after the first time? And after 15 times of being dumped, during which time there were fights, arguments, battles, and armed conflict, why would a person then marry this man? Triumph of hope over experience?
None of this situation is surprising, given that the writer has told us often that she prefers 'interesting' over 'happy'. Well, that situation sure is interesting. Never a dull and all that.
It will all be OK. Provoking someone into physical action instead of using one's intelligence to make a situation truly workable and pleasant is a search for drama, not for solutions. It will all be OK.
Posted by Mzmarti on September 27, 2011 at 2:56 pm | permalink |
How about this – fix your life, focus on your life, and keep it out of the blog. I realize that "come read about my train wreck" is a very popular blog theme, but it isn't a healthy one, and readers will "you go girl!" you regardless of the wisdom of any of your choices, because it's so much fun to "you go girl" someone else's risky moves.
Stop the trainwreck, take care of your life, leave it out of the blog.
Posted by MJ on September 27, 2011 at 3:01 pm | permalink |
Life is short. There are no do-overs – that i'm aware of anyway. I believe you know in your heart what you should do. Making the decision and taking the first steps are the hardest part. I recently made the decision after almost 35 years of marriage It was probably the hardest thing i've ever done. I don't look at who was at fault, whether i wasted years staying when i knew i should leave, i focus on today and the possibilities for the future. I have so many thoughts on this post and what you describe – too much to write about in a comment. I think you know you're not alone, you have a lot of support. No matter how much advice you receive here and from others, only you can decide on where you go from here and that's the way it should be. I wish you the best.
Oh – and i do have to comment on the post about there being no good life, just life. I think there are many people out there without legs to run with, or who have suffered the loss of a child who would gladly trade places with her and consider hers a very good life. It's all in how you look at it. Be grateful every day.
Posted by Red on September 27, 2011 at 3:01 pm | permalink |
Penelope,
Tons of advice here. I am not wise enough to add to the wisdom already in the comments. Two things I have learned:
We are all alone and no one can save us.
We are what we do.
Posted by Chris Ward on September 27, 2011 at 3:01 pm | permalink |
I like the hinges analogy!
Posted by Anonymous on September 27, 2011 at 3:03 pm | permalink |
Penelope, you already know you need to live. And BECAUSE you're famous and have signed autographs. You and your life serve as a role model – not just to your kids, but to all of us. You having the strength to leave will hopefully give another person in the same situation the same courage. Also think about what kind of environment you grew up in, your kids are in, and see that you need to leave for them. Please leave safely and let us know.
Posted by annie on September 27, 2011 at 3:04 pm | permalink |
Who cares that your are "famous", write a blog, give advice…life is too short to be pushed around…get real for your kids sake.
Posted by Mtart on September 27, 2011 at 3:06 pm | permalink |
I don't think you should leave the Farmer, because I don't think he's abusive. Abusive people push down repeatedly over time, because he hits you one time does not mean that he's abusive. Creative people are wild but being wild does not mean abusive (abusers can smile and never touch you too). His anger may have come out physically but he is a physical person and he's also having his negative energy increased/supported by you. Perhaps the Farmer is not for you, I don't know but leaving this man does not mean that you will leave "this man". The story will play over again and again until you get the message. I'm a Jungian, I look for what's underneath and from your posts I do not see a man who is hindering growth. You're aging and part of this means dealing with your past, your soul is trying to get you to deal with it and the farmer is picking up this invisible energy because that's what he does-he makes things grow. You need to own how you are damaging yourself and also need to the steps to remedy it. Back track and look at how you have helped create an environment in which your positive masculine image hit you and you ran to your negative masculine image. The soul is showing you that your energy is still going to that unhealthy place. You're an adult now and you're a mother, raising two young men, own your weakness but also own your power. Good Luck
Posted by Christina Frasher on September 27, 2011 at 3:08 pm | permalink |
It's kind of bad taste to argue semantics when a couple of little boys are watching their mother get physically abused by a what, "one time abuser"? Regardless of what you want to call him, he is unable to help her because he is resorting to violence to deal with whatever "invisible energy" she's throwing at him. Nice textbook analysis, terrible life-advice.
Posted by Valerie on September 28, 2011 at 3:20 am | permalink |
I had an ex husband like that…being emotionally (mostly) abuse and a few physical altercations. Saying it was my fault, that I drove him to it. And by the way, I didn't leave him, he left me (though I journaled about doing so and planned to do so even getting a safe house lined up. I did finally get that NO it wasn't my fault, that this was clearly a person with poor boundaries, impulse control and definitely no understanding that adults take responsibility for their own actions.
Wish I could say I finally "GOT IT" and I am don't have to worry about that stuff again. But no, ended up with current boyfriend, who early in our relationships, used to say very mean things (ok lets call it what it is…verbal abuse) and said it was my fault. This time however I didn't believe it, let him know it was him…and to his credit, then and now acknowledges that these are his problems, I didn't/don't deserve it etc…The good news is he owns…the bad news is that he does relapse into that behavior and I am still here betting in the end, he will learn to manage his own behavior to the extent that these incidents dwindle to nil.
Saying all this to say, "yes patterns such as these get formed early and mine like yours were established in my family of origin" but that narrative doesn't have to continually define us and given "forever after" life. Understanding what got you here, you can now work very hard on not getting stuck here (which I think many of your post-narratives do rather than helping you grow and become healthy).
In the end, it's your choice. Your call. Just like it is for me. Good luck and may your outside circumstances start reflecting all the goodness you (and your children) deserve.
PS After this post, I really don't like the Farmer. OK, I acknowledge that like the rest of us, he has his strengths (the 4H/county fair post) and stuff he has to work on.
Posted by Gayle on September 27, 2011 at 3:10 pm | permalink |
I have been reading this blog for a couple of years. The posts on your family are always vulnerable.
This is what I remember from your previous posts: you went through sexual abuse, physical abuse, and emotional abuse. The authorities were at your house numerous times, and the only way you escaped was because your mother finally told the cops it would be the best thing for you. You stayed with your grandmother. You went through a string of bad relationships. You developed eating disorders and tried to kill yourself. You have reinvented yourself a few times. Decided NYC was not the right place for you. Then you and your husband moved, had some amazing boys. One of your amazing boys has autism. One of your amazing boys is a musician. You have self-diagnosed yourself with Aspergers. You are divorced. Now remarried. You are in another bad relationship.
A lot of stuff happened in between. Good and bad. I believe sometime soon, if you do not get out of this relationship: You will echo your mother's words. You have written this, and someone from your town will read this. And if they have any shred of a soul or humanity they will called Child Protective Services. And you may lose your amazing children.You have always landed on your feet. You are resiliant. You are eccentric and beautiful and special in the way that everyone is special. You will manage to take your next breath and survive. But what will you survive? You will either survive losing your husband or losing your kids.
I will pray for you. I will hope for you.
I pray that you can give yourself the love you seek. I hope you leave before you lose your kids.
Posted by JunePearl on September 27, 2011 at 3:11 pm | permalink |
Yes, I'll stick with you. Keep writing.
Posted by Sosympl on September 27, 2011 at 3:12 pm | permalink |
Here's what I'd say if I could come to your house and take you by the shoulders, looking you in the eye –
You and the Farmer are crushing each other's spirits. What else has to happen before you cut that last sinew that keeps your marriage together and move forward?
What is the best thing in your life, the piece that brings you the most joy? What would the Farmer say is his? Obviously it's not each other. I pray that for both of you the answer now is your boys.
Stop. Breathe. Pivot.
Both of you must turn your full attention to the boys' emotional needs. You are breaking them in the same ways you've been broken. Is that what you promised them when they were born and you marveled at how pure and perfect they were? No. You drank in their sweetness and leaned into the responsibility, and promised yourself that you would do better. That you'd love them in ways you had never experienced even though you deserved to.
Don't abandon that. It will teach you to care for yourself again.
Posted by Vanessa in NC on September 27, 2011 at 3:24 pm | permalink |
Hello again, Penelope,
I know a couple who are constantly at war, physically and mentally. And now that I having been following your posts for over two years, I asked "C" if "J" has Aspergers Syndrome. C said, yes. J had been diagnosed just last year. J had already left the party when I asked that question. He can't tolerate crowds. This was a tip off to me.
Anyway, C and J have been together many years having the battles like the ones you have described. And yet, they are still together. Why? They have the means to separate, and did for four years, and then J moved back in. Why?
You and the Farmer merged with eyes wide open, and both of you sacrificed huge parts of your freedom to put yourselves into this ring of fire. Why?
The easy answer is LOVE and ACCEPTANCE and VALIDATION. But your could have gotten those affirmations from other people. And so could the Farmer. Yet, you both CHOSE to come together to do battle, and in between, share love and fear.
I am no psychologist, and you have had many sessions with professionals, and what I am about to say is probably no new news to you. But as I think about it, it's news to me.
You and the Farmer are opposite sides of the same Soul. You materialize all his internal conflicts he needs to resolve. And he does that to you. You couldn't choose a better soul mate to address all your hurdles. They stare you in the face everyday and beg you to make peace with them. And for the Farmer, YOU are his mirror as well. This is why you don't leave and he has yet to make you leave. This is why he DID leave his family to join you in your heart.
Still, your journey together is a rough ride for your boys. You have to protect them while you and your soul mate learn through combat. Your children have to understand why this is happening, and within the eye of the storm, they must know that you and the Farmer DO love each other, NEED each other, WANT each other. And you both must love them, as I think you do.
Be careful with their young souls. They are fragile.
With love,
Irv
Posted by Irving Podolsky on September 27, 2011 at 3:24 pm | permalink |
I think this is the kind of adolescent thinking that is tempting to embrace but really holds people back: "You and the Farmer are opposite sides of the same Soul." Dude! Parents cannot be taken in by shit like this! Do what is right for your kids!
Posted by Claudia on September 28, 2011 at 5:19 pm | permalink |
Your reply to this foolishness is especially funny because I believe "Irving Podolsky" is the character that the real man behind that comment likes to pretend to be on the internet. He's like some poorly written, digital Peter Pan. "Irv" is a 15-year old boy, no? Something like that? "Adolescent thinking". Ha.
It's always fun when people claiming to be sensitive, romantic souls argue to keep children in abusive households for the purposes of LOVE and ACCEPTANCE and VALIDATION.
Posted by Valerie on September 28, 2011 at 6:59 pm | permalink |
Oh, come on. It may sound a bit cheesy but it may not be foolish–it really depends on the situation. One way to look at the relationships we create is that we do so in order to externally recreate internal patterns we wish to heal. So if Penelope leaves him without understanding and removing the emotional charge off the old pattern in her psyche that has her attracting men like this, she may turn around and create an abusive situation with someone (or something) else. "Soulmate" could just be a romantic way of naming people our wounds are attracted to because the other will bring them to the surface–as an opportunity to heal them.
Although I agree that being in the body is just as or more important than being in the head, head people have an advantage in that their intelligence and creativity can allow them to discover new pathways and means to evolve. My dad used to hit my mom, me, and my sisters, but he did stop, and although it did do a lot of bad things to my psyche, it would have really really really sucked if they'd divorced. Even in an abusive situation, I did have stability. So, if there are other ways to improve the situation, the answer isn't always to leave.
Posted by Colleen on September 29, 2011 at 12:32 am | permalink |
I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with you, only because I think we walked away from similar situations with entirely different perspectives. I never felt like the stability of a two-parent household justified remaining in an abusive relationship. I feel like people can provide great stability while divorced (funnily enough, Penelope's Ex and her seem to do a great job at this).
Also, I believe we see things differently because your situation seems to have de-escalated while mine did the opposite. My parents were still fighting violently with my siblings well into their young adulthood (and only not with me because I left town). So I also see that pattern of escalation here with Penelope's stories of abuse, and I think it is best she leave before things get worse. I think she is one of those people who hops from relationship to relationship without working on themselves, and while you can work on yourself within a relationship, her current marriage seems similar enough to her abusive childhood that she is merely re-living it and not growing. I think you have some valid points about not leaving without understanding the underlying pattern.
Oh, and that's why I think little Irv's comments are remarkably adolescent. It's pretty obvious she's been using males to rescue her from herself and from them her entire life; the Farmer is no different. Painting it all as some romantic journey of self-discovery while her children have no idea what's happening seems, sorry, Irv, childish. It allows the rationalization that it will be better for everyone in the long term, while in reality the short term "battle" results in untold amounts of damage. Her children are too young not to know this isn't normal, and that's incredibly bad for them.
Posted by Valerie on September 29, 2011 at 2:04 pm | permalink |
I love Irv.
Posted by Amy Parmenter on September 28, 2011 at 8:55 pm | permalink |
Penelope, thank you for writing from such a brutally honest place and not pretending to have all of the answers. I'm sorry for what you're going through and I truly hope you find the help that you need. I think some of the commenters are not distinguishing between violence and abuse. Abuse is a pattern of behaviors used by one person to establish power and control over another. I wouldn't begin to know the complexity of your situation and try to name it. What I will say is that you can be rich, famous, successful…and still experience abuse. Shelter may in fact be an option for you, and if you are truly afraid for your safety and that of your children then absolutely you could go that route. But that has to be your decision, and shouldn't be based on what your father, your ex, or any of your commenters say. You know your situation best, and you are the best predictor of your husband's behavior. You are an incredibly strong person as evidenced by how much you have lived through and survived. I am confident you will get through this too and continue to educate us all. Best of luck.
Posted by Kim on September 27, 2011 at 3:25 pm | permalink |
It sounds like he doesn't like who he is when he's with you, and he's tried to leave. Let him.
Posted by Picotera7 on September 27, 2011 at 3:29 pm | permalink |
At your behest: It's me again, thinking (knowing) you need a hug.
I grew up in the opposite family from yours. So I had many emotional advantages. I think you should give yourself a pat on the back for all you've accomplished as a mother, as a careerwoman, as a human both locally and globally.
I do imagine you might be a little difficult to live with.
(Not that the Farmer isn't. I'm in a relationship with a lifelong bachelor, age 55, and there are things he just doesn't "get" at all. He can't help it. He tries. I get the sense that the Farmer is trying…and just as frustrated as you are.)
Let's face it, there's nothing more difficult than human relations…and that's ALL WE'VE GOT.
Have you considered marital counseling? (Forgive me if I've missed that detail in one of your posts. My retention isn't what it used to be.) It may be time to stop crowd-sourcing this type of advice. I'm not passing judgment (I admire your blog and your bravery in all things) and I'm not being a smartass. I just think you may have reached the limits of what your readers can do and that it may be *counterproductive* to reveal these details.
Anyway, just wanted you to know I wish you well and am thinking good thoughts for you today. Sorry I couldn't bring myself to put this in the comments.
Wishing you clarity and peace. xox
Posted by Guest on September 27, 2011 at 3:33 pm | permalink |
Seriously… I am not sure what you are trying to get at with this post.
Im sorry you are going through this but you don't seem like "that woman" who wants people to feel sorry for her while she stays in an abusive relationship while never doing anything about it. It doesnt seem like you or…
Are you? If so then my perspective on you has totally changed.
Posted by MrsMV on September 27, 2011 at 3:37 pm | permalink |
Penelope,
Some of your other blogs have alluded to stresses in your marriage — this is the first one that's come out with a description of violence. I'm so sorry; you may well need to leave.
That said, you and the Farmer need to be in couples counseling, starting tomorrow, to see if there are underlying patterns leading to violence that you can break out of. The post doesn't tell us enough about the hours leading to the violence; none of us can "judge" whether you in any way "incited" violence (and that still wouldn't excuse it!!), and no one can tell from hearing only your side whether or not you're abusive.
My son is a really smart Aspie. I have Aspie traits, but not to his level and I suspect not to yours. The Farmer needs to read the stories of other partners-and-caregivers-of-Asperger's-People and see if they resonate, and needs to share ideas and solutions with others in this boat. Because you don't get to be violent with people just because they make you crazy; if he can't control it he needs to get out of the house until the crazy has faded. Or, you, same thing. Also, if he's getting crazy he may just plain not understand your needs and not understand when you're having a really bad day or a bout of depression.
Posted by Phil Sevetson on September 27, 2011 at 3:47 pm | permalink |
So, you abuse him and he abuses you. Is he wrong? Sure, and so are you. Is he the bad guy? Yes, and so are you. Could he every have a relationship with someone without being abusive? Maybe. Could you? I doubt it.
Posted by Donkey on September 27, 2011 at 4:04 pm | permalink |
Penelope pushes people's buttons. She does it to her readers on this blog. She does it to the people in her life. She pushes and waits for a reaction. It sounds like she's addicted to the rush of adrenaline, which is why no matter who she is with, no matter where she goes or what she does, these problems will follow her.
If she wants to get better and have a calm life, which I doubt she does, then she would have to kick her addiction to that rush of excitement she feels when she gets a reaction from people. She would have to desire a more quiet life first, then research on what a quiet life is really like, and wean herself off of pushing people's buttons and try to actually live a peaceful existence.
Penelope, you are awesome, engaging, brilliant, and a captivating writer. It is possible to live a peaceful life and still be all those things if you really want to.
Posted by CSreport on September 27, 2011 at 4:16 pm | permalink |
…by the way, I used to be addicted to the chaos until I realized how draining and psychotic it was making me. I spent the last 10 years reprogramming myself and figuring things out. The mind is an amazing thing.
I recently re-watched "A Beautiful Mind" with Russell Crow. Penelope, you should watch that if you haven't seen it yet….very inspiring.
Posted by CSreport on September 27, 2011 at 4:53 pm | permalink |
I agree, and I'm concerned that, instead of dealing with these very serious issues, she is getting this adrenaline rush from our very comments right now — comments which are having a BIZARRE way of scolding her by way of 500 lashes. People who are experts in these issues do no prescribe 500 blog comments to dissect you and scold you for ways you may be contributing to a horrible situation which is largely not your fault. Penelope, you are smart enough to know that this situation is not totally unique and there are experts who know what to do. I hope you go find one and do not consider blog-brain your expert. I hope I'm wrong and she can be bloggy and take responsible action at the same time.
Posted by Claudia on September 28, 2011 at 4:38 pm | permalink |
I agree, and I'm concerned that, instead of dealing with these very serious issues, she is getting this adrenaline rush from our very comments right now — comments which are having a BIZARRE way of scolding her by way of 500 lashes. People who are experts in these issues do no prescribe 500 blog comments to dissect you and scold you for ways you may be contributing to a horrible situation which is largely not your fault. Penelope, you are smart enough to know that this situation is not totally unique and there are experts who know what to do. I hope you go find one and do not consider blog-brain your expert. I hope I'm wrong and she can be bloggy and take responsible action at the same time.
Posted by Claudia on September 28, 2011 at 4:38 pm | permalink |
I agree, and I'm concerned that, instead of dealing with these very serious issues, she is getting this adrenaline rush from our very comments right now — comments which are having a BIZARRE way of scolding her by way of 500 lashes. People who are experts in these issues do no prescribe 500 blog comments to dissect you and scold you for ways you may be contributing to a horrible situation which is largely not your fault. Penelope, you are smart enough to know that this situation is not totally unique and there are experts who know what to do. I hope you go find one and do not consider blog-brain your expert. I hope I'm wrong and she can be bloggy and take responsible action at the same time.
Posted by Claudia on September 28, 2011 at 4:38 pm | permalink |
Well, he did try to run you over with a tractor.
I said it before and I'll say it again, perhaps with a bit more emphasis;
Get the fuck out.
Posted by satchmo on September 27, 2011 at 4:17 pm | permalink |
Your sons see this, and they learn from both of you that this is how you treat women. They learn that women will accept it. You are part of that lesson. Please be the part that shows them what you won't accept.
But protect yourself, because leaving is the most dangerous part of the process. That doesn't mean you shouldn't leave. It means make sure you know what your resources are, and be careful.
I assume by now you're familiar with Gavin de Becker and his work. You might want to check out this part of his site: https://www.mosaicmethod.com/
Posted by Anonymous on September 27, 2011 at 4:24 pm | permalink |
this site has a car chase in the banner ad on top = farcical
Posted by emily on September 27, 2011 at 5:51 pm | permalink |
That's not a banner ad, and it's not farcical–de Becker is a security and protection expert. If you haven't read his book "The Gift of Fear," I'd recommend it.
Posted by Anonymous on September 27, 2011 at 6:16 pm | permalink |
That's not a banner ad, and it's not farcical–de Becker is a security and protection expert. If you haven't read his book "The Gift of Fear," I'd recommend it.
Posted by Anonymous on September 27, 2011 at 6:16 pm | permalink |
So what if you are an alleged psychopath? I don't think people come to this blog for moral or ethical guidance so you are OK.
I don't see the point of this post. We are not your psychologist. If you are still tormented by your childhood, go seek the help of one. There is a reason they exist. I'm suggesting honest options for you.
I get that you are writer, so does that mean you have to write about when you take a shit?
You are smart and have shown independence . You are acting like a victim and enjoying the role of the helpless woman.
So you are not a child anymore. Adults behave differently. There is an age where you stop blaming your parents and you reached that age a long time ago.
Posted by JF on September 27, 2011 at 4:27 pm | permalink |
Appears to me your struggling with your own truth. Problem is that no one is bright enough to see the emotion they are fighting when they are within in it, its spiritually impossible to be beside your self when in an emotion. And your not happy not knowing. Take faith or drive yourself nuts babe, but do understand you must chose of your own free will or else.
Posted by Haven on September 27, 2011 at 4:40 pm | permalink |
What are you still doing there? I don't mean it in a mean way, just that: you've gone trough so much aready, why are you letting yourself suffer again? And even if you believe you're emotionally abusive to the farmer – so what, you still don't deserve to be physically abused, and in front of your son, to boot. You've written about how unhappy you are, and I wonder: What holds you there?
Posted by Belly on September 27, 2011 at 4:47 pm | permalink |
I've realised that we put ourselves in the same situations time and again because we have yet to learn from them. Learning to leave, learning to think your worth it to leave, is tough. It sounds like you're still struggling with this. Whether it is your father or your husband.
Maybe you won't learn this in this life time. Which would suck. I hope you do.
If you take ownership of this situation, as I think you're doing in this post since you can see the connection to your relationship with your father, you are one step closer to leaving. If you stay and take no action, maybe you are getting something out of the relationship. Anger is a very strong emotion. When someone expresses it at you, and you're suffering from low self-esteem or a lot of insecurity, you can mistake it as a validation that they care. That someone, anyone, cares about you.
Propping you up is a blog with a lot of traffic and comments. If you don't have the self-confidence internally, and you need something external to give it to you, just look at all the nice comments on your blog. The ones that tell you how you make people think differently. How you inspired them to leave shitty jobs. Then pack your stuff, grab your kids and leave.
Or stay if that is what you still need. But maybe send your kids elsewhere to live as you need to end the cycle, and you can't do that for them if they're living with parents that are abusive towards each other.
Posted by Katy on September 27, 2011 at 4:47 pm | permalink |
Wow. Life under glass. Love and furry and grief and confusion and, in the midst of it all, the banality of stamp collecting. As someone who writes, especially when I find myself in a dark corner, I thank you for sharing. It is brave to lay yourself bare. Your willingness to expose the ugly underbelly of your life is a gift to us all.
Your circumstances, as presented here, are heartbreaking. When put in black and white or shared with an ally or displayed under the harsh lights of a witness stand, the nuisances, mutual responsibility and mushy complexities are lost. Life and human being are just too complicated for any of us to judge. Even YOU don't really know what the real truth is because you're only live one piece of it.
So, I will refrain from offering advice. With 110 comments and counting, you are being well tended. The only phrase that keeps reverberating in my head, so I will share it is, "You take yourself with you".
My heart goes out to you and the millions of others who are ensnared by the complexities of the human experience. My alcoholic, OCD, phobic Mom died a few months ago so I have a front row seat to the twists of turns of feelings.
You will know what to do when you know what to do…and not before.
Posted by Cathy2010 on September 27, 2011 at 4:51 pm | permalink |
You wrote awhile back that the Farmer was an ISTP and I was surprised you hadn't considered this fact when you got involved with him. I believe David Keirsey, in Please Understand Me II, says the best type for an ENTJ is an INTP. With your quest for learning, you need to consider paying more attention to these things. I should have written to you sooner about it, but I thought it was too impertinent. Another book you should consider, especially since it is a short one, is The Five Love Languages by Dr. Gary Chapman. You can take the test here: http://www.5lovelanguages.com/assessments/love/ Everyone should know their personality type and love language before entering into any relationship because these are the basic building blocks to a meaningful relationship.
I apologize for not responding when you first wrote about the Farmer's type. You are strong enough to do the best thing for you and your children.
P.S. You still write like I'm sitting at your kitchen table.
Posted by Byron on September 27, 2011 at 5:09 pm | permalink |
You wrote awhile back that the Farmer was an ISTP and I was surprised you hadn't considered this fact when you got involved with him. I believe David Keirsey, in Please Understand Me II, says the best type for an ENTJ is an INTP. With your quest for learning, you need to consider paying more attention to these things. I should have written to you sooner about it, but I thought it was too impertinent. Another book you should consider, especially since it is a short one, is The Five Love Languages by Dr. Gary Chapman. You can take the test here: http://www.5lovelanguages.com/assessments/love/ Everyone should know their personality type and love language before entering into any relationship because these are the basic building blocks to a meaningful relationship.
I apologize for not responding when you first wrote about the Farmer's type. You are strong enough to do the best thing for you and your children.
P.S. You still write like I'm sitting at your kitchen table.
Posted by Byron on September 27, 2011 at 5:09 pm | permalink |
I put the wrong type in. Keirsey says INFP is the best type for an ENTJ, not INTP. My apologies to David Keirsey.
Posted by Byron on September 27, 2011 at 5:12 pm | permalink |
I put the wrong type in. Keirsey says INFP is the best type for an ENTJ, not INTP. My apologies to David Keirsey.
Posted by Byron on September 27, 2011 at 5:12 pm | permalink |
Penelope,
I might be the hundredth person saying it but: No one deserves to be abused. Ever.
There might be things you've done that you're not proud of, that you wish you hadn't done. But no matter what they are, it doesn't give anyone permission to abuse you.
It might be hard to access shelters, but hotlines are anonymous. You can call the National Domestic Violence Hotline at 1â800â799âSAFE (7233) to talk about your safety, get emotional support or get resources.Nobody knows the best thing for you to do in your situation but you, because no one is living your life but you. Maybe its best to get out, maybe its best to push back and renegotiate boundaries & relationship rules. Maybe its something else. If you need a neutral springboard, maybe call a number like the one above to figure it out. Be safe.D
Posted by [dave] on September 27, 2011 at 5:13 pm | permalink |
Penelope,
I might be the hundredth person saying it but: No one deserves to be abused. Ever.
There might be things you've done that you're not proud of, that you wish you hadn't done. But no matter what they are, it doesn't give anyone permission to abuse you.
It might be hard to access shelters, but hotlines are anonymous. You can call the National Domestic Violence Hotline at 1â800â799âSAFE (7233) to talk about your safety, get emotional support or get resources.Nobody knows the best thing for you to do in your situation but you, because no one is living your life but you. Maybe its best to get out, maybe its best to push back and renegotiate boundaries & relationship rules. Maybe its something else. If you need a neutral springboard, maybe call a number like the one above to figure it out. Be safe.D
Posted by [dave] on September 27, 2011 at 5:13 pm | permalink |
Why are you staying in this toxic relationship? What deep-seeded need is it satisfying for you? Because let's face it, you are only there because you are getting something from it. I know I stay because I can't afford to leave, what's your excuse?
Posted by Anon on September 27, 2011 at 5:24 pm | permalink |
Why are you staying in this toxic relationship? What deep-seeded need is it satisfying for you? Because let's face it, you are only there because you are getting something from it. I know I stay because I can't afford to leave, what's your excuse?
Posted by Anon on September 27, 2011 at 5:24 pm | permalink |
I have been following your blog for some time now, and I have always been a silent watcher from the sidelines. Today is different. I have to speak. As a child that grew up in a household where the adults were abusive to one another, I always see these situations from the vantage point of the child. I was the same age as your son, the first time that I witnessed my father punch my mother in the stomach when she was pregnant with my sister. 30 years later, and I still cannot erase that single image from my mind. I hurt for you, and your children. We all have our faults, and while no one is innocent in the situation, physical violence, especially exhibited in front of children, cannot, and should not be tolerated. Children learn how to love by watching how we love. We cannot teach them these lessons until we learn how to do it ourselves. You have to learn to love yourself first, trust in yourself enough to know what we all see in your blogs daily – you are a loving mother, an amazing, strong, resilient woman. The key is, you have to believe it – only then will you be confident enough to make the decision that you know is right for you.
Posted by Guest on September 27, 2011 at 5:24 pm | permalink |
I have been following your blog for some time now, and I have always been a silent watcher from the sidelines. Today is different. I have to speak. As a child that grew up in a household where the adults were abusive to one another, I always see these situations from the vantage point of the child. I was the same age as your son, the first time that I witnessed my father punch my mother in the stomach when she was pregnant with my sister. 30 years later, and I still cannot erase that single image from my mind. I hurt for you, and your children. We all have our faults, and while no one is innocent in the situation, physical violence, especially exhibited in front of children, cannot, and should not be tolerated. Children learn how to love by watching how we love. We cannot teach them these lessons until we learn how to do it ourselves. You have to learn to love yourself first, trust in yourself enough to know what we all see in your blogs daily – you are a loving mother, an amazing, strong, resilient woman. The key is, you have to believe it – only then will you be confident enough to make the decision that you know is right for you.
Posted by Guest on September 27, 2011 at 5:24 pm | permalink |
I don't see what you are complaining about, that is just the way things are done on a farm.
Can't think up any way in the world to give a pet special food? Then just kill it. There are so many animals and so much to do on a farm so that's just the way it is.
Got an annoying wife? Just push around some. That's just the way things are done on a farm.
People who don't live on farms won't understand this.
Posted by Anonymous on September 27, 2011 at 5:36 pm | permalink |
Stay or go. You're a big girl now and you've choices, a luxury most women walking the planet do not have.
But what does a post like this, on a highly visible blog, do to your young children? Or doesn't that matter?
This smells to me much like a meatless dinner…
Posted by JennyBBones on September 27, 2011 at 5:37 pm | permalink |
Stay or go. You're a big girl now and you've choices, a luxury most women walking the planet do not have.
But what does a post like this, on a highly visible blog, do to your young children? Or doesn't that matter?
This smells to me much like a meatless dinner…
Posted by JennyBBones on September 27, 2011 at 5:37 pm | permalink |
Hurting her kids hurts her, too. It's a way to punish herself for her bad behavior. It's less a meatless dinner and more a lamp-over-the-head. People who are in the self-harm blackhole as deep as she is tend to punish themselves emotionally for their perceived transgressions. This blog is a form of self-flagellation.
Posted by Valerie on September 28, 2011 at 3:16 am | permalink |
Valerie, I totally get it. And I've even been there. So I do get it.
I read this post first thing this morning and all I could think about were those poor kids. Actually, they're all I still care about as far as this situation is concerned. But my reaction/comment earlier may have been more self-defensive than compassionate and that's never a good space to come from.
Thank you for waking me up a bit.
Posted by JennyBBones on September 28, 2011 at 3:45 am | permalink |
Hi Jenny! I wasn't trying to come down hard on you at all. 90% of the reason I'm commenting all over this blog with these blunt statements is because I hope she- Penelope- does read all the comments, and takes something away from them.
I don't think she realizes that this blog is not a substitute for talking to real people, that this public flogging of herself is not equivalent to real penitent action, or that until she starts dealing with people she has to look in the eyes when speaking, she's not making progress. Telling us about what a bad mom she is functions as just another way to hurt herself, which then spirals into the abuse-chasing behavior that comes up repeatedly in her posts. Again, I'm sort of pointing this out for her benefit, not yours.
And I'm not claiming to have all the answers or be some kind of psychologically perfect person- it's just really easy for me to see this blog is not helping right now, having grown up with the same personality type for a mom with many of the same traits. It's not helping. It's hurting. Please stop, Penelope.
Posted by Valerie on September 28, 2011 at 1:02 pm | permalink |
I am so sad for you, truly. I have no idea what the cure is for 'Imposter Syndrome' or any clear idea what it even 'is' but it sounds awful. Is this a recommended cure? I think (I hope) that you are doing what is best for you. I am British, and as much as I have had my moments of sharing my life, I am not totally convinced there's conclusive evidence that it helps to put your private life out for all the world. You will work it out,
Posted by Anonymous on September 27, 2011 at 5:42 pm | permalink |
I am so sad for you, truly. I have no idea what the cure is for 'Imposter Syndrome' or any clear idea what it even 'is' but it sounds awful. Is this a recommended cure? I think (I hope) that you are doing what is best for you. I am British, and as much as I have had my moments of sharing my life, I am not totally convinced there's conclusive evidence that it helps to put your private life out for all the world. You will work it out,
Posted by Anonymous on September 27, 2011 at 5:42 pm | permalink |
Penelope – why are you doing so many dishes? I think this was the beginning of what became a bad day for you.
Posted by Rachel on September 27, 2011 at 5:49 pm | permalink |
If she's like me, she does the dishes only when she runs out of clean ones.
Posted by Anonymous on September 27, 2011 at 11:21 pm | permalink |
If she's like me, she does the dishes only when she runs out of clean ones.
Posted by Anonymous on September 27, 2011 at 11:21 pm | permalink |
Penelope
I will accept you in whatever form you decide to share yourself. I've been through some things in my time as well, and mostly, sociiety doesnt want you to talk about it because honestly it alarms plenty, and they dont want to have to think about how difficult something may have been or how a family's fabric shredded and leaves behind a person trying to understand how to live their life.
I love that you are brave enough to share the good, the bad, and sometimes the ugly. Honestly, I think thats courageous. social normals are sometimes just bullshit – truth is truth. Never be afraid to say what is your truth: to do otherwise, I think, is to ingore who you are at this time.
That things have come to a physical point, is not safe. I liked the idea someone had about you and the farmer living in separate places. IF there is still love between you then this makes sense. Some people just cannot live together as their boundaries are just not flexible enough to share. Ultimately, what you choose is your right – though I would definitely toss a red flag on the field and say, "it is true, what your kids see is what they will believe is a loving relationship." If you dont want them to recreate the same situations throughout their life in their attempt to understand themselves, then you will need to do something so that they do not see their mother being physically harmed. If the farmer has gotten to this extend: he must know he has lost control of his own copability.
We have all seen the tv scene a million times: someone gets shoved because of a heat of the moment arguement, but this time they dont get up: because they suffered a brain hemorage and died. Another scene Im sure you dont want your kids to ever live through.
LIfe is an experience and journey. Sometimes something that sounds good, doesnt always work out to be liveable.
You are a survivor. Keeping going forward.
Posted by Lynny on September 27, 2011 at 5:50 pm | permalink |
Penelope, I will share a bit about two of my relationships:
#1 – He was emotionally abusive, and I became physically abusive in response. Someone posted here about the options to escalate, submit, or disengage. I think that does boil it down to the essentials. Neither of us could disengage, and neither would submit.
So we went to counseling. We were able to learn how to defuse. One technique we used is that one of us would leave, but it was for a set amount of time. In an hour, we would be back. And I learned that, even as a woman, if I was hitting, I was an abuser. I had to regard violence as simply off limits. Nothing was worth me viewing myself as an abuser.
Ultimately we split up because I wanted to move away and have a different kind of life than he wanted, and we are now good friends.
#2 – In my current relationship, we are having serious issues right now, and a big contributor is his passive aggression. From what I'm reading online, it is considered a form of emotional abuse.
I talk about everything, and I describe every feeling, and I overwhelm him. So then he withholds. Sex, daily chit chat, everything. It progressed slowly, I didn't realize this was what was going on, that he was that angry with me, until he started taking his complaints, and eventually his affections, to a female coworker instead of to me. Then I looked it up. Apparently, along with passive aggression comes "triangulation."
Here's the most helpful link I've found about passive aggression. http://thecouplestoolkit.com/2010/09/21/the-passive-aggressive-punch-the-silent-code-of-anger-in-the-coupledom/
It's surprising to me the crappy quality of psychology info on the web. If you have any recommendations for better sites, maybe let me know.
Do you think counseling would be an option for you two? Would the Farmer be open to it if it was agreed that it would only be a set number of sessions, maybe two or three?
Posted by Kaycee on September 27, 2011 at 5:56 pm | permalink |
Penelope – you forgot to tell us how we'll know if we pass the test. In sticking with you – by which I presume you to mean staying subscribed to your blog – do we pass or fail the test?
Or is it a test for you, and we are to be your examiners?
Perhaps how you answer my first question is a test. If you suggest that we fail by sticking around, that does suggest that you hold a certain view of yourself, does it not?
Posted by cornwalker on September 27, 2011 at 5:59 pm | permalink |
I am very glad you are a writer. I can get the benefit of your great insight without having to know you personally. You don't have to have everything together in all areas of your life to be a good role model in one or two. But that said, I cannot tolerate in my life the kind of disrespect that I see on both sides of your relationship. I honestly can't see how you can. I mean, I guess I can understand it is a coping strategy. It is a deeply rooted impulse to find the feelings of love or at least importance that you need as a person in ways that have worked for you before, that come out without your fully-conscious decision. Likely there are hormonal aspects that put you off balance too, by skewing your emotional perception. But by the way that you pragmatically analyze the world of careers, the way you can take the data and extract relevant lessons, it seems odd to me that you have so much trouble looking at your personal life in the same terms, taking your goals for yourself and your relationship and analytically adding up what is required to achieve them.
This has been a rough week for me because a younger adult friend of mine is in the middle of dealing with a seriously controlling and essentially abusive situation with her Dad, that has come down to the point of her moving out of his house (to mine) and his threats to me, my partner, and her boss who have all thwarted his attempts to keep her isolated and dependent. But she didn't grow up with him, and although it has been hard, she has a really good intuition or understanding of what she is and is not willing to put up with. Therefore, she has to make a break, even if only temporary. It would be nice to be able to have it both ways, a great bond with her dad, and being able to live a productive life on her own terms. But the way to determine what you can and cannot control in life is simple. You can control yourself and your own actions. You cannot control ANYTHING else. Her dad is not willing to cooperate in order for her to get what she needs. She is therefore on her own in that pursuit.
You can take action to get what you want too, but you have to be realistic about it. You can't game the system when it comes to interpersonal relations. You have to do all the negotiating up front, explicitly and honestly. If there are supposed to be rules as to how you are to be treated, there must be rules as to how you treat others. You cannot make those rules at a certain point, or change them, but only take them or leave them. Little passive aggressive violations just show bad faith, and while the rise you get may be reassuring to you, it just erodes the ability to trust and communicate, which is really your only chance at working together. Imagine a business partnership where neither person trusted anything the other said. It would be pointless, or at the very least extremely risky and only worth approaching if the potential payoff was very high. Perhaps you are upping the stakes of your relationship in order to feel justified in the payoff you hope to get. Maybe you are looking for the dip? But what could the potential payoff be in a personal relationship, where you have sacrificed the very tools you need to achieve success? What do you want? You may want to make sure that your model of success is realistic, because you cannot have everything.
Also, maybe your perceptions are misleading you. You might try to find some method of feedback in order to train yourself to experience things outside of the emotional context that you grew up with. Maybe some of the things you think of as bad, are not really bad, and vice versa, but because you have arranged your conceptual furniture in a certain way for so long, you don't see where things could be changed for a better flow. Maybe just pick one small area where you are challenged and try to figure out the underlying assumptions that you are relying on. Examine them closely and try to figure out where they came from. How could you explain things differently in your past experience if you inverted them or changed them. There is progress throughout history as humans have refined our models of how things work. The old models worked ok for a long time, but when inconsistencies arose, sometimes we have to throw out what always worked and find something better. Isn't that what your career advice is all about? Finding a better model?
I don't think you are ready to give up on the farmer, and I don't think either of you have malicious intentions, but you might need some space to work things out, especially as you have trained eachother to understand one another's actions with trepidation and distrust and perhaps desperation. You have resources. An apartment in town can not be too much of a hardship for a month or two and a retreat might be something both of you could appreciate, which does not preclude eating dinner together every night or spending time together. It just might make both of you feel a bit more secure to be able to plan and predict your interactions. Both of you might be able to feel more able to work sincerely on improving your relationship if there was an opportunity to to know that you could relax without being vulnerable in weak moments. And if in the course of the hard work it will take to make things better, you find out that your goals and visions for the future are not compatible, then that is a step forward, not back. Although, maybe you will be able to move forward past the trouble you have gotten into and reach a mutually desirable future.
Finally. Our backgrounds shape us, but do not define us. My partner grew up in a really bad situation with a lot of stress and dysfunction, but he is one of the calmest, most generous and reasonable people I have ever met. Your sons will have to live their own lives and they will have the opportunity to transcend their challenges like you have. Do your best for them and they will have as much as anyone can ever expect in this world. The best modeling you can do for them is to address your own needs and challenges honestly and fiercely, as you seem always to do.
Posted by Lestamore on September 27, 2011 at 6:07 pm | permalink |
Where is the line that cannot be crossed?
Posted by Joannie on September 27, 2011 at 6:12 pm | permalink |
Where is the line that cannot be crossed?
Posted by Joannie on September 27, 2011 at 6:12 pm | permalink |
I think the theme of this post is to figure out if someone with a difficult personality can ever have a good relationship with the men in her life. Because, usually, men only enter a woman's life if he has a special interest in her (Dad, husband) as opposed to women who have less attached relationships (friendships). Is this pattern doomed to repeat itself, or can this be fixed?
Posted by Whitney on September 27, 2011 at 6:15 pm | permalink |
I think the theme of this post is to figure out if someone with a difficult personality can ever have a good relationship with the men in her life. Because, usually, men only enter a woman's life if he has a special interest in her (Dad, husband) as opposed to women who have less attached relationships (friendships). Is this pattern doomed to repeat itself, or can this be fixed?
Posted by Whitney on September 27, 2011 at 6:15 pm | permalink |
Penny,
Reading this hurts more than I can tell you. All that I can say is get real help now.
Posted by Dale on September 27, 2011 at 6:18 pm | permalink |
Penny,
Reading this hurts more than I can tell you. All that I can say is get real help now.
Posted by Dale on September 27, 2011 at 6:18 pm | permalink |
Penelope – you worry about what example is set for your boys when they see the farmer pushing you.
I really don't think anybody here is realizing the magnitude of how difficult you can be. Abuse is abuse.
And that's what the boys see. Your craziness. All the time.
The farmer incidents, when he's pushed beyond his limits, those seem like less than 1%
But the boys also see your many wonderful strengths too- your writing, community building, thoughtfulness about career and purpose…
How you act now is (and has been) creating the foundation of how your boys perceive and interact with females. Think about that.
In one way or another, the chances are very good that their perception of you will determine the choices they make about women in the future, throughout their lives.
If you want that to be a more balanced influence, maybe you just shouldn't be in a relationship.
Look, I think you're almost brilliant, and I'll continue to look forward to your posts. You've got a helluva lot of strengths Penelope. They'll get you through this tough stuff.
Posted by Garrett on September 27, 2011 at 6:20 pm | permalink |
Penelope – you worry about what example is set for your boys when they see the farmer pushing you.
I really don't think anybody here is realizing the magnitude of how difficult you can be. Abuse is abuse.
And that's what the boys see. Your craziness. All the time.
The farmer incidents, when he's pushed beyond his limits, those seem like less than 1%
But the boys also see your many wonderful strengths too- your writing, community building, thoughtfulness about career and purpose…
How you act now is (and has been) creating the foundation of how your boys perceive and interact with females. Think about that.
In one way or another, the chances are very good that their perception of you will determine the choices they make about women in the future, throughout their lives.
If you want that to be a more balanced influence, maybe you just shouldn't be in a relationship.
Look, I think you're almost brilliant, and I'll continue to look forward to your posts. You've got a helluva lot of strengths Penelope. They'll get you through this tough stuff.
Posted by Garrett on September 27, 2011 at 6:20 pm | permalink |
Hi Penelope,
Thank you for being brave enough to write this post. There is no justification for physical violence no matter how little meat you serve him or how much the compromise on religion. You need to seize control of your situation. If you feel the inclination to move to the Bay Area, or just stay here for a little while to get a breather, I am totally willing to host you.
Jade
Posted by Jade Q Wang on September 27, 2011 at 6:46 pm | permalink |
I think that's really nice of you to do for a stranger, kudos.
But here's the deal- she knows those aren't the reasons he claims she emotionally abuses him. She's throwing those out there to paint herself as a victim. You know why her foot got crushed in the door? Because she stuck it in there to keep him from slamming it. I would love for her to respond to this and confirm that as fact. She probably won't, but who knows. Penelope? Foot in the door because he was shutting you out, right?
It's pretty obvious to anyone who grew up with someone like her or who is kind of like her. She acts like my mother did all through my childhood, provoking my father into fistfights. And I act like her now, sometimes. The week Penelope was throwing herself in front of a tractor, I was body slamming the living room door my boyfriend had blockaded with a couch. Until he came out and threw me into the wall. Between the two of us the right side of my body was a bruise.
Because you can scream at us and you can hit us, but we will not be ignored. Right, Penelope?
It's pretty obvious she spins this to get sympathy. It's almost kind of noble, to say how she knows she should get help, but she doesn't want to, and it's because of all these men who hurt her, and yadda yadda yadda. It would be less noble to detail how she was screaming in her husband's face. Or to mention, you know, her foot was crushed in the door because she stuck it in there. She has a really insidious way of attributing blame through the things she doesn't say.
So there's not a snowball's chance in hell she's going to take you up on your offer, in other words. Because while I am thoroughly ashamed of my behavior and I actually do realize that it is all.on.me. to change it and that whole episode was a major wakeup call for me, she still plays the pity game and lives in a good deal of denial about just how much damage she's doing to her boys. They won't grow up hitting women- they'll end up self-abusive like she is. Practically guaranteed, if nothing changes for them.
Still, that's really nice of you to offer. Sincerely, really sweet.
Posted by Valerie on September 27, 2011 at 7:56 pm | permalink |
Hi Valerie. You're more than entitled to justify your own abusive relationship, but that doesn't mean Penelope should.
The Farmer, like Penelope, is free to dissolve the relationship and make a better situation for himself. That's usually the case in abusive relationships between adults: for different reasons, neither party is especially motivated or equipped (emotionally or otherwise) to leave the horrible situation and create a better life for themselves. The Farmer is choosing to not do different/better.
Of course we know the Farmer has the means to put an end to the situation and do better for himself, just as much – arguably more so – as Penelope (she and her boys stand to suffer a far greater upheaval in their lives by leaving than the Farmer does in kicking them out). I'll say it again: The Farmer is choosing to not do different/better.
And maybe it's just me, but I think pretty much anything has to be better than knowing you've pushed the woman you supposedly "love" to the ground – regardless of what you think she did to "provoke" the attack. People who wind up harming (or killing) others in self defense often lead tortured, ruinous lives after the fact. Even though they know they were placed in an impossible situation, they feel remorse. Penelope has yet to share any inkling of the Farmer's remorse with us; even if he feels she "pushed" him to his limit (which I still think if a total B.S. argument), shouldn't he feel bad for inflicting harm, period? That would at least demonstrate a willingness to address his contribution to this toxic situation.
Abusers generally don't assume any responsibility for the situation. Penelope does nothing BUT blame herself. The Farmer has maintained, based on what Penelope shares – both in good times and bad – that he is blameless and it is all her fault. See the difference?
Even *if* you want to make the argument that Penelope is exagerrating the situation for the purposes of drumming up sympathy on her blog, I don't see what she stands to gain that could possibly make her day-to-day reality suck any less, or how that makes the farmer's actions any less "wrong".
The Farmer may not have an audience of blog readers to support him, but by not challenging the status quo and continuing to perpetuate an abusive situation, he's complicit.
I think Jade's expression of concern and hospitality was spot-on.
Posted by Courtzilla on September 27, 2011 at 8:34 pm | permalink |
No, I agree. Jade was being really nice. I wasn't being sarcastic when I said it was a sweet gesture. I just don't think Penelope is going to take her- or anyone else- up on an offer of true support. From the cues I'm getting in her posts, she isn't there yet.
I'm not really sure where I justified an abusive relationship- I just said I'm more than aware that my behavior is unacceptable, and while I can't do anything to change anyone else, I can take responsibility for my own actions. Whether that means leaving the relationship or not is an entirely different issue. And I believe that taking responsibility for my own actions in no way justifies somebody else's violent behavior. It's not either/or.
My point was that Penelope has a very clever way of victimizing herself with a sort of up-front mea culpa attitude but hasn't, as far as I'm aware, ever vocalized any kind of desire to change her behavior or circumstances. I'm not saying she isn't a victim. Again, I never said the Farmer is blameless or anything of the kind. I just wasn't talking about him since he's not the one writing. Clearly if she is the subject of abusive, physical or otherwise, she is a victim.
Her post, however, points to everyone but her as the root of her problems. While there is a very obvious cause/effect between her experiences as a child and her behavior now, she doesn't seem ready to take steps towards healthy adult behavior. This is not the first self-harm post (or self-harm like badgering someone until they hurt you, which she has done in other posts like the tractor one). Granted I can only respond to what she posts, which is hardly a full picture of her life, but from what she posts, I've only seen a glorification of behavior like self-harm, purposeful provocation of violent behavior in her spouse, and an obsession with bulimia.
Did anyone else see the tweet about popping a Xanax pre-couple's therapy to make her husband look like the crazy one? That's the behavior of someone who would rather be right than happy. I am slowly becoming not-that-person and hopefully someday she can too. I know from experience that it's a lot easier to be glamorously unglamorous, to be defiantly, unabashedly screwed up, and fly your freak flag, scars and all, than it is to admit you are normal and need help like any other person.
To reiterate- I'm in no way excusing anyone's violent behavior towards anyone, ever. I'm NOT saying that she deserves what she's getting. I would never say that about anyone who is being abused. That would be despicable. I was pointing out that from what I'm reading between the lines here, we have someone who is in pretty deep denial about their circumstances, how much control they have over their own lives, and that I don't think she is going to willingly accept help from anyone.
It seems like she wants attention and pity from this forum, but doing the kind of soul-searching that leads to real change is a long way off. I'm not judging, just observing. None of these comments are any different from the ones eight months ago or however long it was when she was posting about hurting herself during an argument to make a point.
This is especially worrisome as she has two young children who are now growing up with this kind of domestic violence- the breaking lamps over your own head kind- as normal life. Of course not everyone turns out the same, but from her blog, her and the Farmer are a very familiar picture. I have younger siblings and I've seen what it did to them to grow up in that environment. They're doing great now, but it hasn't been easy.
Posted by Valerie on September 28, 2011 at 2:29 am | permalink |
Wow…everything I'd been thinking but unable to articulate. Incredibly insightful words from someone who was once abused and became the abuser, just as I did. Never ever was I physical but emotionally abusive? definitely. And would have sworn blind I wasn't. T
'that's the behavior of someone who would rather be right than happy.' never a truer word spoken. Seek first to understand. Both sides. That's the cure. Don't make the Farmer the demon so you can believe yourself the saint. You're both human and both perhaps damaged and you need to help each other.
Posted by Meg on September 29, 2011 at 1:08 pm | permalink |
"Seek first to understand. Both sides. That's the cure."
Good advice. One thing that was really huge for me to realize is that I don't have to be right to be worth acknowledging.
This has changed my attitude. I used to be the best arguer in the world, because I was so afraid to be wrong. If I was wrong, no one had to listen to me or care what I had to say. So I needed to be right.
From what she writes, Penelope is exactly like that too. She will hurt herself to get attention, and she will provoke other people into hurting her so she can be right, because it's not enough to just feel the way she feels. But that's not true. Letting go of being right is the best thing in the world, because it comes with the realization that people will hear you anyway, and love you anyway, and being right is not so important after all.
Posted by Valerie on September 29, 2011 at 2:15 pm | permalink |
Wow…everything I'd been thinking but unable to articulate. Incredibly insightful words from someone who was once abused and became the abuser, just as I did. Never ever was I physical but emotionally abusive? definitely. And would have sworn blind I wasn't. T
'that's the behavior of someone who would rather be right than happy.' never a truer word spoken. Seek first to understand. Both sides. That's the cure. Don't make the Farmer the demon so you can believe yourself the saint. You're both human and both perhaps damaged and you need to help each other.
Posted by Meg on September 29, 2011 at 1:08 pm | permalink |
This is so right on. Usually these situations involve one partner who lacks boundaries and is unable to take responsibility for their emotions and actions (the Farmer). The other person lacks boundaries and thinks they responsible for everything, including the mental/emotional state and actions of another sovereign being (Penelope). Case in point, Penelope says, in this very post, "I tell myself that I if I can fix this situation, I will be really good at helping other people to fix their lives."
Penelope, there is nothing for you to fix here– you're not the one lashing out with physical abuse. Refusing to serve meat, etc. is not emotional abuse, and even if you were really being emotionally abusive to the Farmer, it would be incumbent on the Farmer to leave or otherwise address it in a way that does not involve more abuse.
It sounds like this relationship is not working right now, and the parties involved lack insight and awareness into how they are contributing to the problems. I encourage you to separate soon (a real separation where contact is limited only to truly essential matters). Counseling can come later, but it will not work unless you both come into it with the right attitude, having done the hard work of understanding your contribution to this mess.
Posted by Nicole on September 28, 2011 at 8:35 pm | permalink |
Wow, look at all the NTs bagging on their resident Aspies, desperate for sympathy because they're such martyrs. Have you people any idea how much suffering Aspies endure on a daily basis?! Have you ANY concept at all of how much ASPIES change/adjust/forgive for you and everyone around them too?! Have you any idea that knowing they have Asperger's Syndrome, knowing that they're different enough to be so disliked that their own families clearly don't like them (like a mother in this comments thread – her disgust for her son is tangible and disgusting), and knowing that they KNOW they will likely never change or improve makes them want to DIE!? Poor you, non-Aspies, for putting up with Aspies, you are so brave, blah blah blah: well I say Poor Aspies for having no choice but to put up with self-indulgent martyrs who want praise for their sainthood.
Aspies are NOT TO BLAME for their condition, just as you are not to blame for being non-Aspie. Aspies make allowances for non-Aspies every single minute of the day, Aspies are abused by non-Aspies all the time, but I don't see posts here about what martyrs Aspies are for tolerating non-Aspies soooo bravely …
HOWEVER, Aspies are easily victims of emotional abuse – and it's very, very easy for manipulative abusers to wrangle their conditions and blame them for all the crap they deliberately throw at them. The Farmer knows exactly what he's doing – he knows his wife better than any of us, and EVEN IF she was abusive like he says, he has NO RIGHT whatsoever to not only lay a finger on her, but also to treat her like he doesn't know she's different. The Farmer needs to manage his expectations of his wife – or split up!
And Penelope: first he tried to run you over with a tractor, and now this … you will find other men. You can support your kids and make a nice home without a man who seems to think it's okay to physically hurt you. He knew you were an Aspie when he got together with you.
Posted by IliveinatardisREMOVETHIS on September 27, 2011 at 6:55 pm | permalink |
Your writing always makes me think. I think what really matters to you is relevance. It's not that you are the best at life advice or even that your writing helps people…it's that you matter. The story you blogged is not a story of how you battle impostor syndrome; the writing of it is itself the battle. When you are there at the end of the story, in the endgame that sounds so typical and so tragically normal–they are chatting about stamps and you're worried about…everything–you can stare at the table in front of you and begin to feel that awful sin of lameness crushing down all around you. You fear that it's not a temporary down, a momentary dip–but that you've been fooling yourself all along and this is really what you deserve. You see nothing for a minute. And then you write. And then it begins to be better again.
That's what I see anyway. I don't know what to tell you about getting pushed around. I think you find the strength to act on that after you blow the cobwebs of self-doubt away. Just because you have to do that a lot doesn't mean the dark place is where you deserve to be…it's just where you always find the writing again and know that is who you are.
Posted by Anonymous on September 27, 2011 at 7:08 pm | permalink |
What the fuck is wrong with you? You endured the childhood you did and you don't realize yet that this is NOT ABOUT YOU? What is wrong with you that you think it is okay for a 6-year old boy to see his parents fight physically? What is wrong with your sons' father that he lets them stay? You and the Farmer are not involved in some romantic, epic dance of tortured souls trying to make their way in the world. You are two emotionally damaged people who should not be together. And your first priority should be the boys.
Posted by Kdolan on September 27, 2011 at 7:11 pm | permalink |
Seconded. What goes on between you and the farmer is between you and the farmer, but you have no right to inflict this nonsense on your kids. Where the hell is their dad and why hasn't he stepped up to remove them from your custody?
Posted by Anonymous on September 27, 2011 at 7:33 pm | permalink |
Yeah…the father really does need to step it up. Coming over on Sundays to mooch dinner doesn't cut it. If I was in that situation, I'd be asking for more help from the dad. You are under a lot of stress. Hugs.
Posted by Mel on September 29, 2011 at 4:38 pm | permalink |
This is not a post about Asperger's. This is a post about someone who has Borderline Personality Disorder. (hint: it's not the farmer)
Posted by f.c. on September 27, 2011 at 7:15 pm | permalink |
Spot on
Posted by Ktheerm on September 30, 2011 at 1:57 pm | permalink |
Spot on
Posted by Ktheerm on September 30, 2011 at 1:57 pm | permalink |
Yeah, I can see that….What I'm wondering is, does the Farmer even know the smack she's unloading on him? You know….so that he could defend himself….make no mistake, she's fucking his life over, and is really doing a job on her sons while she's at it.
Posted by Killerwhale681 on October 4, 2011 at 1:50 am | permalink |
Exactly.
Posted by Scott on November 23, 2011 at 9:35 pm | permalink |
Wow, look at all the NTs bagging on their resident Aspies, desperate for
sympathy because they're such martyrs. Have you people any idea how
much suffering Aspies endure on a daily basis?! Have you ANY concept at
all of how much ASPIES change/adjust/forgive for you and everyone around
them too?! Have you any idea that knowing they have Asperger's
Syndrome, knowing that they're different enough to be so disliked that
their own families clearly don't like them (like a mother in this
comments thread – her disgust for her son is tangible and disgusting),
and knowing that they KNOW they will likely never change or improve
makes them want to DIE!? Poor you, non-Aspies, for putting up with
Aspies, you are so brave, blah blah blah: well I say Poor Aspies for
having no choice but to put up with self-indulgent martyrs who want
praise for their sainthood.
Aspies are NOT TO BLAME for their condition, just as you are not to
blame for being non-Aspie. Aspies make allowances for non-Aspies every
single minute of the day, Aspies are abused by non-Aspies all the time,
but I don't see posts here about what martyrs Aspies are for tolerating
non-Aspies soooo bravely …
HOWEVER, Aspies are easily victims of emotional abuse – and it's very,
very easy for manipulative abusers to wrangle their conditions and blame
them for all the crap they deliberately throw at them. The Farmer knows
exactly what he's doing – he knows his wife better than any of us, and
EVEN IF she was abusive like he says, he has NO RIGHT whatsoever to not
only lay a finger on her, but also to treat her like he doesn't know
she's different. The Farmer needs to manage his expectations of his wife
– or split up!
And Penelope: first he tried to run you over with a tractor, and now
this … you will find other men. You can support your kids and make a
nice home without a man who seems to think it's okay to physically hurt
you. He knew you were an Aspie when he got together with you.
Posted by IliveinatardisREMOVETHIS on September 27, 2011 at 7:27 pm | permalink |
OK, I'm going to take the troll bait:
Rabid dogs aren't responsible for their condition either, but we don't allow them to roam freely and bite at will. It seems to me that society has vastly improved how it treats those with congential maladaptations. When I was a child, in the 60s, most were institutionalized so as to be out of sight and out of mind. But the price for mainstreaming those with Aspergers is the frustration born of inevitable social friction in homes, schools, and workplaces. That frustration NEVER justifies physical abuse, but no one should be made to feel guilty for what they feel in response to the frustration. Sorrow and anger are appropriate emotional responses to the frustration aroused by some Aspie behavior. It is what it is.
Posted by Maus on September 27, 2011 at 9:36 pm | permalink |
OK, I'm going to take the troll bait:
Rabid dogs aren't responsible for their condition either, but we don't allow them to roam freely and bite at will. It seems to me that society has vastly improved how it treats those with congential maladaptations. When I was a child, in the 60s, most were institutionalized so as to be out of sight and out of mind. But the price for mainstreaming those with Aspergers is the frustration born of inevitable social friction in homes, schools, and workplaces. That frustration NEVER justifies physical abuse, but no one should be made to feel guilty for what they feel in response to the frustration. Sorrow and anger are appropriate emotional responses to the frustration aroused by some Aspie behavior. It is what it is.
Posted by Maus on September 27, 2011 at 9:36 pm | permalink |
double post. apologies. can't find a delete function.
Posted by IliveinatardisREMOVETHIS on September 27, 2011 at 7:30 pm | permalink |
So I'm bring up Penelope, and get the latest scoop on goat cheese start ups, sending kids to home schooling and…. what the hell? ……. farmer… crushed foot… scared … women's shelter? I check the web page again just to make sure I am in the right place. I have never written to you or wrote a comment. Didn't see the need. Why now? Because the answer woman looks like she has questions.
First off thank you for sharing. Sharing alone makes it likely that you will deal with this situation better than most persons in your situation. By sharing you put the brakes on a lot of stuff. I grew up in a situation where people shoved each other and worse. Something like that depends of silence and sweeping it under the rug until its too late.
I can understand why you would call your dad. It was still not the best decision, but I understand why you did it. You are in a situation that people can find themselves in. Much like unemployment or career stagnation. It seems all of a sudden, but really its been happening for sometime… u just didn't know what it was. You have seemed so happy in your relocation. This comes as a bit of a slap in the face.But that's ok. Life does that.
I have never been more convinced that you are a real person with real problems. I imagine this is very much like so many other problems you have faced in your life. Transition from Pro Volleyball Player to Millionaire to Serial entrepreneur to Advice Columnist. Survivor of 9/11, divorcee, poster child for miscarriages, gen x, y and z, and we wont even get into your childhood challenges. Its easy enough to forget, that each of these were really scary when they were happening. Its so easy to look back at these hard decisions and to think you handled it with as much effort as it takes to read about it. Its easy to think of life as 1000 word essay in a blog. Its nice and neat. You made those decisions. You will make this one.
I don't know the Farmer and I don't know you. But from what i have read – this is a situation with a solution. like most of our problems. It will probably be simple, but not easy. You will cry no matter what you do. You will lose something as you get to the other side. You will survive.
Cry as much as you need to. Then get up and make some choices. For me – today, you did what you always do. Framed your life in such a way that I come away knowing what to do about my own tangled mess. Good luck.
One thing is for sure, things will not be same… and I suppose you finally get to choose. Do you want a happy life… or an interesting one?
Posted by Twan on September 27, 2011 at 7:42 pm | permalink |
I'm sticking with you.
You are not an imposter.
You are, for a variety of reasons — many of which make perfect sense from an emotional standpoint, choosing to stay with someone who does not understand or fully accept you – and who we now know abuses you in the most literal sense of the word.
There are, albeit few, instances in life where the situation is exactly as it seems: bad and unsustainable. No addendums, no social context to figure out. I am a regular reader. I know only what you share. And based on that information, I feel very strongly that you are in such an situation.
This is your choice to make. You're not the first woman to make it; maybe one of few women who speak openly about it, but this choice is made all the time — in situations of great suffering. It pains me that so many of us can relate; that this is part of our social fabric.
I'm sticking with you.
Posted by Courtzilla on September 27, 2011 at 7:44 pm | permalink |
Driving long distances to cello lessons and homeschooling are great. But they are fluff – a crumb – compared to emotional support, stability, and observing/being involved in healthy relationships. That stuff is at the very core of developing into a capable, well-adjusted, healthy adult.
Cancel cello lessons right now. Use that time and money for therapy for your kids and yourself and, if he'll go, the farmer. This isn't just about you, it's about your children, too, and about what they are learning right now about relationships and love and respect (for self and others). You need help figuring out what's best for them, and you need it now, and you need and deserve to be free from violence while you get it all sorted out.
Posted by EC on September 27, 2011 at 7:45 pm | permalink |
"Lame" isn't the right word to describe yourself- it's too judgmental. I haven't read your blog in three years and apparently much changed in the content. Frankly, I am quite surprised and a bit shocked, my first thought when I started reading was, "this must be some crazy metaphor for the work environment". But no, it's your life – out there – in public view. The best word I can think of is "mess'- that you are a "mess" and the blog seems to be your tool for figuring out the messiness that is your life. I think the impact for me is a loss of credibility on the subject of providing career advice. However, judging by the concerned and passionate responses from readers, this seems to be a good place for blog therapy.
Posted by TF on September 27, 2011 at 7:46 pm | permalink |
Leave. Him. Now.
This is not how you raise children. Living in a relationship where everything is so damn hard. You are abused by The Farmer. You abuse your son with the cello lesson marathons. Your house is a mess, because you have too many messes. You are better off alone, sharing parenting with the kids father. You want to be right about marrying the farmer, but it sure looks like you were wrong.
Posted by Desert Girl on September 27, 2011 at 7:51 pm | permalink |
Penelope, I have to agree with your dad. And while only you can make a decision about whether to stay or to go, there are local resources. You can look at the Domestic Abuse Intervention Services website here (http://www.abuseintervention.org/help.html), or call their toll-free number 24-hours a day.
Given that I live 20 minutes down the road from you, I know that Madison is an hour away. I urge you to reach out for help. For your boys' sake, if not yours.
Posted by Sarah P. Miller on September 27, 2011 at 7:56 pm | permalink |
Also - making sure the meal doesn't have meat when meat is what the Farmer really wants in every meal strikes me as a textbook move on the part of a battered wife. After reading this – and other - posts regarding your relationship with the Farmer, that's the word that comes to mind: Battered. Beaten down. Questioning your worth, your contributions, your deserving-ness of being pushed to the ground. Just please think about that. Not serving meat is not emotionally abusive; it's signs of life, of hope – maybe it's the remaining fragments of a woman who knows *exactly* how f'd up this situation is shining through.
I so badly want to make everything OK for you. Be safe.
Posted by Courtzilla on September 27, 2011 at 7:59 pm | permalink |
Penelope, I will share a bit about two of my relationships:
#1 – He was emotionally abusive, and I became physically abusive in response. Someone posted here about the options to escalate, submit, or disengage. I think that does boil it down to the essentials. Neither of us could disengage, and neither would submit.
So we went to counseling. We were able to learn how to defuse. One technique we used is that one of us would leave, but it was for a set amount of time. In an hour, we would be back. And I learned that, even as a woman, if I was hitting, I was an abuser. I had to regard violence as simply off limits. Nothing was worth me viewing myself as an abuser.
Ultimately we split up because I wanted to move away and have a different kind of life than he wanted, and we are now good friends.
#2 – In my current relationship, we are having serious issues right now, and a big contributor is his passive aggression. From what I'm reading online, it is considered a form of emotional abuse.
I talk about everything, and I describe every feeling, and I overwhelm him. So then he withholds. Sex, daily chit chat, everything. It progressed slowly, I didn't realize this was what was going on, that he was that angry with me, until he started taking his complaints, and eventually his affections, to a female coworker instead of to me. Then I looked it up. Apparently, along with passive aggression comes "triangulation."
Here's the most helpful link I've found about passive aggression. http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2011/09/27/this-is-me-battling-impostor-syndrome/
It's surprising to me the crappy quality of psychology info on the web. If you have any recommendations for better sites, maybe let me know.
Do you think counseling would be an option for you two? Would the Farmer be open to it if it was agreed that it would only be a set number of sessions, maybe two or three?
Posted by Guest on September 27, 2011 at 8:08 pm | permalink |
I gave the wrong link. Here's the right one: http://thecouplestoolkit.com/2010/09/21/the-passive-aggressive-punch-the-silent-code-of-anger-in-the-coupledom/
Posted by Guest on September 27, 2011 at 8:09 pm | permalink |
Thanks so much for that link.
Posted by Shandra on September 28, 2011 at 2:21 am | permalink |
Thanks so much for that link.
Posted by Shandra on September 28, 2011 at 2:21 am | permalink |
You might have Aspergers, but you're relatively high functioning, which means you know how to identify a problem that lies within you, and only you. Had you truly wanted this relationship to work, you would have fully accepted responsibility for what destruction you bring to it, and sought out somebody who was professionally able to help you process what you do and why you do it.
What you're effectively doing, by posting this on your blog, is forcing the "Farmer" to throw you out. Because from what you write, you haven't been truly happy in this relationship in a while. You know you're emotionally abusive – it's evident in your writing, yet at no point have I seen a post wherein you get counseling for what you know to be a problem. But you don't want to be the one who walks out the door. You "need" him to throw you out, because that's validation for all the crap you think about yourself.
I'm not justifying what he did, but you're both at fault. If you really want any kind of a chance at happiness, you'll delete this post, go to him and express to him how his actions made you feel, apologize for your role in creating the frustration he so clearly felt, and then advise him that you're going to counseling. That's holding up your end.
And in the interests of your children, you'll explain to him that you and he are going to sit down with your children and explain that what you've both done is very, very wrong. And that people should not allow other people to abuse them, no matter what. And then explain that if either you or he act so inappropriately again, you won't be able to live together anymore. But …. you're both going to do everything in your power to act kindly and responsibly to each other. And that you both love the children, and you want to create a happy home for them, but you're both extremely broken works in progress.
Posted by Sienna on September 27, 2011 at 8:19 pm | permalink |
Sienna sounds like a .. a…. a GROWN-UP. woah.
Posted by Claudia on September 28, 2011 at 4:54 pm | permalink |
quote: "…are going to sit down with your children and explain that what you've both done is very, very wrong…people should not allow other people to abuse them…then explain that if either you or he act so inappropriately again, you won't be able to live together anymore."
The kids are not stupid. I think they know the parents are screwed up, they DO allow the partner to abuse them, and they are NOT going to leave if it happens again. Why tell them lies?
Posted by Vicky on September 30, 2011 at 1:40 am | permalink |
i wish i had something deep and insightful to say about domestic violence but i don't. what i do have to say though, is that i admire your honesty. it's raw, it's genuine, it's rare. and for that, i deeply commend you
Posted by Kola on September 27, 2011 at 8:26 pm | permalink |
A few random comments and observations.
First, you are a very talented writer.
One in six Americans suffers from a mental condition. If you are in this group (the Aspergers) then you should get professional support.
If you were considered crazy as a kid then this is something that will likely always be part of your personality. And very hard to change,
It is very abusive and dismissive to refer to your husband as "the Farmer." My initial reaction to this was "this relationship won't last long."
I would love to hear your husband's side of the drama in your life. All your readers get is your version of things.
Your kids need to be in a regular school and away from this crazy lifestyle or it will be passed on to yet another generation.
While I don't condone abuse, I can understand how a mentally unstable person can push a person to the point of shoving another to get their attention. I think you were probably embellishing the story about your husband trying to run you over with a tractor.
If your husband has not given full permission to write these things about him, it is seriously wrong. If he has, then perhaps both of you need mental help support.
If your lifelong behavior isn't a symptom of your mental illness, then you likely have a narcissistic personality that demands constant attention. It seems a more extreme version of the "drama queen" or "high maintenance" person. Some people are attracted (like a moth to a flame) to these people. The smart people run as far and as fast as possible away.
You are really not in an authoritative position to be advising anyone about how to run their life, other than as an example of how not to run your life.
In my opinion, running off to live in rural Wisconsin with a farmer was simply an escape. Sadly, your husband is just a temporary crutch.
You will probably always leave a wake of destruction in your path until you find a way to cope with your demons.
You and your husband seem so different that I wonder why either of you ever got married. What did you each need in each other…or that you thought you would get?
When I saw a video of you for the first time my reaction was "this person is kind of whacked out."
If you haven't already, I suggest trying some things to calm your mind…cognitive therapy, yoga, meditation, etc. Perhaps that will help some. You need more than writing as your therapy.
The other people who commented on this post often reflect their own personality disorders or past problems in relationships, many that seem to be a result of having dysfunctional parents. You need to be sure that YOU aren't the dysfunctional parent to your children.
People who show you blind devotion, without trying to help or commenting on what you need help with, are doing you a disservice.
These are my stream-of-consciousness thoughts. I hope they help you.
Posted by Ericcharleswentworth on September 27, 2011 at 8:54 pm | permalink |
Perfectly said!
This is the first comment (or blog post) that has any real value.
I read because her life is a train wreck and I keep hoping it will get better for her boys. The ex needs to step In and up for them.
Posted by Veteran homeschooler on September 28, 2011 at 12:48 am | permalink |
If your husband has not given full permission to write these things about him, it is seriously wrong. If he has, then perhaps both of you need mental help support.
Nobody needs permission from their abuser to speak about the abuse.
Posted by pluma on October 1, 2011 at 4:56 am | permalink |
Have you ever had to deal with a seriously crazy person? Someone who will get worked up over something and the PURSUE you all over the house? If you read what PT has said, the Farmer was trying to get away from her. She put her foot in the door so he couldn't shut it. PC be damned, crazy people, and my mother is certainly one, are extremely difficult to deal with. If PT is Borderline, or just a severe narcissist, then the Farmer should kick her out, and be done with it. I finally just had to give up on my mother, and that's sad.
Posted by Killerwhale681 on October 14, 2011 at 2:44 am | permalink |
I love your blog. I'm sorry for your situation..some things suck. I'm sure you've got lots of friends for support, but if you need another one you can email me. I think we have some things in common on the home front.
Posted by Sister Sister on September 27, 2011 at 9:21 pm | permalink |
You need a dishwasher more than a new man !!!!! now!!!!
Posted by maria on September 27, 2011 at 9:22 pm | permalink |
Penelope, I will not try to tell you what you have to do but please take this from me as a sincere and heartfelt warning:
I was an extremely handsome and bright child, very talented in many ways. When I watched my father abuse my mom for the first time it tore me apart and I cried in a way that felt like dying, like everything was going down the drain and the harder I tried to hold on to it the harder I had to cry.
Since then I got different friends, I started to withdraw, I started to automutilate, I was put on medication, I was sexually abused because I became so vulnerable, I think it is the reason I started using drugs, I became homeless. Slowly I'm getting my life back. And I try to forgive everyone in my life, but forgiving my father is so damn hard. Please don't do this to your kids.
Maybe in some ways it is hard to imagine the ways in which a child can be affected by his or her environment, but you have to understand that adults have much clearer boundaries than kids, there's a world 'out there' and a world 'in here', but when there's no rationale or other way to escape from the things you see hear and feel happening between the two people in your life that probably are the ones that are the closest to your heart, two people that mean so much to you.. It's not healthy Penelope.. and there's no excuse.
Posted by Sylvain on September 27, 2011 at 9:24 pm | permalink |
ok P you know i love you and admire you and respect you … now i went and read that post again just to be sure – the childhood one … now set some boundaries dear one … for your dad – he doesn't offer you support – only a window back into that time …. you just don't need his love that much – you are a great person despite all you have been thru – or because of …. seeing your dad as support is like see crack as the answer – destructive – as you can see i hold to the notion of forgiving but never forgeting …
Now the pumpkins … we can't have the boys in this situtaion – you and the farmer need to make some choices – he should write a list of the last week of episodes where you have been abusive towards him – you need to study the list and choose – if you want – to modify your behaviour. true responsibility is the ability to choose your response – you are both being slack in this regard.
I worked in domestic violence prevention for a nano second – it was when my boys were about 1 and 3 yrs old. I had to quit. Once I saw the stats and the science and the real cost to the women and theior kids I just died inside and kept seeing my boys as potential abusers …. this was not working for me as a mother. should your boys begin to see this as the norm there is little chance they won't copy the behaviour as the grow into young men.
After I left my first husband i realsied there was stacks of emotional abuse from him – it began subtly and built up to quite massive proportions but by then i was desensitised and it felt quite normal. lets not do the same to your lads.
I know I am lecturing but accept it for what it is – i care from afar what happens to you and the wee lads, the farmer less. maybe you might benefit from a trip away – put things in perspective – come stay – we have a spare room – best le xox
Posted by Le@third on September 27, 2011 at 9:43 pm | permalink |
Oh Pen —I get it all. It was my life. I took the pushing and the rest. Verrry slowly there was a slight escalation in frequency and intensity. I moved to a magical land and became Rumplestilskin, and started spinning to convince myself it wasn't so bad. Until the physical abuse happened in front of my child. I took a whole day to decide that I could take it, and then I finally realized that I couldn't take it for her. Shouting is not the same as angry touching.
You can leave. You stay because it's familiar and comfortable. It must be you, because your whole life it's been you, and you have Asperger's. So you're different. So what? Who's not? Dinner and stamp talk were spinning, like Rumplestilskin. Things are not fine. Magical thinking is just that: Magic, not real. You're the one with Asperger's, not him. And he is not your child, he is an adult.
Posted by RI on September 27, 2011 at 9:49 pm | permalink |
I'm with you, P. My dad recently gave me his multi-faceted stamp collection to sell. I should've gone to a dealer and flogged it as a job lot. But my obsessive compulsiveness has me selling them in ones, threes, sixes and nines. I'm faffing with 99-cent eBay sales when I could (should!) be pulling $120 an hour as a copywriter. I know this is crazy. Humans are crazy. What can you do? With best regards for the happiness and welfare of you and yours. P.
Posted by Paul Hassing on September 27, 2011 at 9:54 pm | permalink |
The dangerous thing about physical abuse isn't so much the shoving itself, it's that accidents can happen. I got shoved pretty hard once and wound up landing on a coffee table, a friend of mine got dragged up a flight of stairs by her hair, her wrist got jammed in the banister and it broke.
When things are heated, and the farmer (or you) are physically not in control, accidents can happen, and it is dangerous to both of you (and the kids, the pets, the furniture ect). The very FIRST thing the farmer has to realize is that physically, he has to stay in control.
That being said, there are probably legitimate reasons why he's going ballistic, so the SECOND thing you guys need to do is work on the issues you have, and get better strategies for coping with each other when things start to look like they are getting out of control.
The THIRD thing would be to make sure the kids are insulated from your arguments. I remember as a kid being in the basement, trying to soothe my dog who was shivering with fear because my parents were screaming and smashing things, like somehow, if I could get my dog calmed down, everything would be okay. I would go to school the next day shaken and needy, and make up stories about how my grama had died (for like the 5th time) so I could get soothing comfort from others.If you can't get yourselves under control in front of the kids you might want to send them back to school so then you and the farmer can fight while they aren't there, or at the very least, your kids can build constructive relationships to support them when you do fight.
HA. Ironically, just at this moment, I got informed I'm sleeping on the couch tonight. Yaaaay dysfunctional relationships!
The final thing I was going to say would be that you should spend time building a relationship with your dad during un-emotionally charged moments. My relationship with my father is VASTLY different from yours, so take this with a grain of salt, but we used to not be able to be in the same room for a day without a shouting match, now I call him almost every day.Relationships take work, at the end of the day it's up to each of us to decide whether we are willing (or able) to put that work in.
Posted by TwisterB on September 27, 2011 at 9:54 pm | permalink |
I see you categorized this post as "Knowing Yourself". With all due respect, this is not about who you are but about your father and the farmer and their impact on you and the kids. Don't repeat the cycle with your own kids. Either the farmer commits (and does) stop the violence or you go. I don't see how you can be so careful not to subject your kids to what you see as the idiocy of the public schools but allow them to bear witness to an abusive relationship. Surely the latter will have a more lasting and negative impact than insipid math worksheets. You can recognize how you may contribute to the anger of the farmer (and formerly in your father) but as everyone else has said, there really isn't any excuse for physical abuse. I vote for one last chance only if you think you can reach a real understanding and acknowledgement that it is wrong and can't happen again.
Good luck.
Posted by Guest on September 27, 2011 at 10:31 pm | permalink |
I see you categorized this post as "Knowing Yourself". With all due respect, this is not about who you are but about your father and the farmer and their impact on you and the kids. Don't repeat the cycle with your own kids. Either the farmer commits (and does) stop the violence or you go. I don't see how you can be so careful not to subject your kids to what you see as the idiocy of the public schools but allow them to bear witness to an abusive relationship. Surely the latter will have a more lasting and negative impact than insipid math worksheets. You can recognize how you may contribute to the anger of the farmer (and formerly in your father) but as everyone else has said, there really isn't any excuse for physical abuse. I vote for one last chance only if you think you can reach a real understanding and acknowledgement that it is wrong and can't happen again.
Good luck.
Posted by Guest on September 27, 2011 at 10:31 pm | permalink |
this is the kind of crap my long-ago ex used to do to me. hold me down on the ground. choke me. i wanted everyone to see him for who he is. the pinnacle of the abuse is always the "you're a psycho b**ch" remarks blaming you for all of it. the mind games will drive a person crazier than anything.
there will come a day when you're done.
Posted by down from the ledge on September 27, 2011 at 10:35 pm | permalink |
What you're describing is just life. Sure, written up it sounds pretty dramatic, pretty abusive, pretty "interesting", but really, really it's just a day in a life.
There are probably very few women in America who couldn't write something similar about a few days, one day, some day, some event in their own lives. None of what you've described about your life, or your argument with "the farmer" is really that different, that unique. You just have a talent for writing and you choose to share those days and those events with everyone. Then the few people out there who don't have those experiences think you're crazy or think you're brilliant and those who have had those experiences think they should give you advice.
You shouldn't fight like that in front of your kids. But you're 40-something, and you know that.
Posted by Amy on September 27, 2011 at 10:36 pm | permalink |
Yes, I thought my life was normal too. For almost a dozen years. Then I realized not everyone put up with the level of stress and trauma — because it is traumatic to live under constant emotional abuse. Took me a long time to admit to this and take steps to change my life. Because it is possible to live without abuse and to not consider it normal.
Posted by beenthere on September 28, 2011 at 7:26 pm | permalink |
There are a lot of woman who can't write something similar. I've not only never had anyone commit any type of physical violence towards me I've never been involved with a man for whom physical violence was an urge when upset or angry. The men I've known closely have never had the idea or urge to shove their romantic partner enter their heads let alone given into it.
Posted by Anon on September 29, 2011 at 6:19 pm | permalink |
You're right that there have to be plenty of women who haven't had this, but it depends a lot on the temperament of both people. The majority of women probably have the ability to have screaming, throwing-things anger, and the majority of men probably have the ability to become furious to the point of wanting to act on it. Mostly people try to control themselves, and any mature man knows when to walk away before he does something dangerous.
There are controller-abusers and there are people provoked into abuse, and the line where one ends and the other begins may not be distinct .
You never know what you're capable of until you're there, but since we're all human, we've probably all felt anger and are probably all capable of violence.
Posted by Zellie on September 30, 2011 at 2:02 pm | permalink |
You're right that there have to be plenty of women who haven't had this, but it depends a lot on the temperament of both people. The majority of women probably have the ability to have screaming, throwing-things anger, and the majority of men probably have the ability to become furious to the point of wanting to act on it. Mostly people try to control themselves, and any mature man knows when to walk away before he does something dangerous.
There are controller-abusers and there are people provoked into abuse, and the line where one ends and the other begins may not be distinct .
You never know what you're capable of until you're there, but since we're all human, we've probably all felt anger and are probably all capable of violence.
Posted by Zellie on September 30, 2011 at 2:02 pm | permalink |
You're right that there have to be plenty of women who haven't had this, but it depends a lot on the temperament of both people. The majority of women probably have the ability to have screaming, throwing-things anger, and the majority of men probably have the ability to become furious to the point of wanting to act on it. Mostly people try to control themselves, and any mature man knows when to walk away before he does something dangerous.
There are controller-abusers and there are people provoked into abuse, and the line where one ends and the other begins may not be distinct .
You never know what you're capable of until you're there, but since we're all human, we've probably all felt anger and are probably all capable of violence.
Posted by Zellie on September 30, 2011 at 2:02 pm | permalink |
I had to stop reading the comments, because they make me sick.
I've been a victim of emotional and verbal abuse. Not cooking someone meat for dinner, even to punish them, is not emotional abuse. Forcing your partner to talk to you is not emotional abuse.
Making another person feel worthless is emotional abuse. Twisting situations and playing the victim is emotional abuse.
The farmer is emotionally abusive to you. And when that stops working, he's physically abusive.
I'm sorry your dad didn't offer to take you home with him. Shelters are for people without families to help. What a horrible message for your dad to send.
Posted by Brigitte on September 27, 2011 at 10:41 pm | permalink |
"I'm sorry your dad didn't offer to take you home with him. Shelters are
for people without families to help. What a horrible message for your
dad to send."
You might want to read a bit more of what she's written about her dad.
Posted by Anonymous on September 28, 2011 at 5:04 pm | permalink |
I have. Just because your parent can't/won't give you what you need, doesn't mean you stop wanting them to support you.
Posted by Brigitte on September 29, 2011 at 10:27 pm | permalink |
I'm not sure about the dilemmas you wrote about. Actually I have an opinion about those too. But I wanted to tell you that you committed great literature in this column.
Posted by Thesamerivertwice on September 27, 2011 at 10:59 pm | permalink |
I worked at a DV agency for the past year and grew up in an abusive home. I landed myself in an emotionally abusive relationship and still went to work in the morning. I was an imposter too. The only redeeming quality of this experience was that ended quickly and I didn't put up with it. I left when I realized it wasn't going change. And I also left my job.
It's amazing how we so rarely take our own advice.
Reading this blog has been a source of strength and full of great advice- take a risk, follow your heart, do what you are. P you've been with me through graduation, a first long bout of unemployment, a move to another city, and now a second move. It's power to have so much influence on strangers. The reason you have this power is because you have been real. You talk about things that no one else will.
But it's not brave for you to be real, it's what you do.
I am writing this, and I hope you don't read it. I am a stranger. You can be vulnerable because I can't hurt you. Not in the same way that people who are very close to you can.
You don't have to wonder if the readers will stay. You are undermining your own talent and value. I cherish your advice and your insight, especially when, in my own family, I am not able to get the same kind of guidance.
You already know what you need to do. But also, please do your job (and it's not to drive traffic to this blog, but to deliver crisp observation like the post on design, one of your absolute gems).
Posted by Liz on September 27, 2011 at 11:30 pm | permalink |
this is the smartest comment to your post. I hope you read and re-read it. Print it out and put it in your wallet or purse. I too have been in your situation in your marriage and childhood. I swore I would never allow anyone to emotionally or physically abuse me and that I would leave any such situation immediately. I was also the primary breadwinner, with 2 kids. Took me 10 years to recognize I was in such a situation and to leave. The pain of staying – knowing what my son was seeing and having to live with that — became greater than the fear of leaving and the complete unknown.
Posted by Cohenassets on September 28, 2011 at 1:35 pm | permalink |
Ok Penelope please read this.
I know know why it didnt feel good when you tried to dish out advise on how to be a woman
Posted by Laura on September 27, 2011 at 11:35 pm | permalink |
Ok Penelope please read this.
I know know why it didnt feel good when you tried to dish out advise on how to be a woman
Posted by Laura on September 27, 2011 at 11:35 pm | permalink |
Well, here's what scares me: There is a chance that the farmer thought you would never talk about this because you would be too ashamed or embarrassed. On the other hand, he would have to be a fool to think that you wouldn't blog about something that has such a big effect on your life, somehow or another. So someone who would abuse you, in front of your kid, knowing that you might tell like, a million readers, there is no telling what someone who do that is capable of. But I would venture a guess, and it isn't very pretty. And maybe he is just really, really stupid. But farmers are just not stupid people in general.
So now you have outed him as a wife beater. I know it doesn't sound nice and he hasn't sent you to the emergency room…yet. But most of the people here will scream at you that it is just a matter of time. Wife beaters all start small and work their way up the scale. Somehow I would never have pegged you as suffering from the "Prisoner of War" syndrome, but if you stick around, that's what you are suffering from. And if you were abused as a child, it's highly likely. Staying there is not a healthy way to live, nice farm environment or not. You can't keep bringing friends on board to live there hoping it will make it better, and your kids, well, they deserve better, even if it's liviing in a car. They'll respect you more for that.
Posted by StephenC on September 28, 2011 at 12:05 am | permalink |
Penelope,
First of all I am sending you some love and light right now.
You need to read the article below and share it on your Twitter and Facebook. Its time that something changed in this world. A woman just got punished by lashing for driving a car in Saudi Arabia. Why this is not front page news around the world astounds me. The fact we all turn a blind eye to these atrocities on a consistent basis is why women like yourself then have to endure situations like the one you are in. http://thecurrentconscience.com/blog/2011/09/12/a-message-to-women-from-a-man-you-are-not-"crazy"/I am still with you. Even though at the time, I was highly offended when you dished out your sexist advice on how to be a woman; I understand now where it was coming from. Because I know that as a woman trying to living your life within a restrictive patriarchal, capitalistic paradigm DOES NOT make a happy life for smart, intelligent women. I hope you know that now too.If women could sleep their way to the top of companies, they would have already. If being the perfect wife, mother, daughter, etc would stop men abusing women and girls then their would be little to no violence. No matter how much we bend, change, compromise, forgive, etc, etc nothing will change until we start uniting. This also includes uniting with the men that understand women are EQUAL to men. It shouldn't take a man to tell us we are not crazy. As a woman I know you are not crazy. Its the fucked up system that is crazy. Penelope you are an extremely gifted intellectual that has the capacity to change the world. Get the hell out of there and wake up to the reality that you need to help start the next revolution towards greater equality between men and women. Enough with telling women to stop reporting sexual harassment. Stand up for yourself and help millions of other women stand up for themselves too!Also stop doubting and blaming yourself. You are stronger than that and do not need male validation in order to be happy. Thank you for your amazing courage and honesty and thank you for telling your story.
Posted by Laura on September 28, 2011 at 12:05 am | permalink |
Something happened to my comment? Where did it go?
Posted by Laura on September 28, 2011 at 12:07 am | permalink |
Ok trying again to comment -
You need to find and read the article below and share it on your Twitter and Facebook. Its time that something changed in this world. (A woman just got punished by lashing for driving a car in Saudi Arabia. Why this is not front page news around the world astounds me)
The fact we all turn a blind eye to these atrocities on a consistent basis is why women like yourself then have to endure situations like the one you are in.
Go to thecurrentconscience.com/blog and find the post – "A message to a woman from a man – You are not crazy"
I am still with you. Even though at the time, I was highly offended when you dished out your sexist advice on how to be a woman; I now understand where it was coming from.
Because I know that as a woman trying to living your life within a restrictive patriarchal, capitalistic paradigm DOES NOT make a happy life for smart, intelligent women. If women could sleep their way to the top of companies they would have already. If being the perfect wife, mother, daughter, etc would stop men abusing women and girls then their would be no violence.
No matter how much we bend, change, compromise, forgive, nothing will change until we start uniting. This also includes uniting with the men that understand women are EQUAL to men.
It shouldn't take a man to tell us we are not crazy. As a woman I know you are not crazy. Its the system that is crazy and un fair. Penelope, you are an extremely gifted intellectual that has the capacity to change the world.
Get the hell out of there and wake up to the reality that you need to help start the next revolution towards greater equality between men and women.
Enough with telling women to stop reporting sexual harassment. Stand up for yourself and help millions of other women stand up for themselves too!
Also stop doubting and blaming yourself. You are stronger than that and do not need male validation in order to be happy.
Thank you for your amazing courage and honesty and thank you for telling your story.
Posted by Laura on September 28, 2011 at 12:15 am | permalink |
Damn stamp collectors
Posted by Sherian31 on September 28, 2011 at 12:17 am | permalink |
You're Kidding right? Sorry about the poor grammar.
Posted by Anonymous on September 28, 2011 at 12:29 am | permalink |
Abusive people tell their victims all sorts of things to make them feel bad about themselves, sometimes even things that are a little bit true. In fact, the things that are a little bit true are the most powerful because we can make them into bigger things in our heads. Don't listen to the farmer when he tells you you're emotionally abusive–even if you are, you don't deserve to be abused. His telling you that is just part of the cycle of abuse.
Penelope, my heart goes out to you. I won't tell you to leave. I was once in an abusive relationship. I knew everyone was saying, "Why doesn't she just leave?" I knew they thought I was stupid. He told me I was stupid. It was a little bit true. I knew I was stupid to stay. Cycle of abuse.
Do what you need to do to take care of yourself and your sons.
Posted by Carla Ganiel on September 28, 2011 at 12:34 am | permalink |
Penelope,
Thanks for being honest. These stories about your life are beautiful, but their truth is painful. It saddens me deeply to think of what you're going through.
I'm not going to purport to know what you should do next. Ultimately, that's something only you can decide.
What I do know is that despite your amazing career success, in many ways your personal life is broken and has been for a while. And although I can't sympathize, I know you're hurting.
So instead of telling you what I think you should do, I'll tell you something that may drive you up a wall – I'll be praying for you. To Jesus.
It truly pains me so much to read about your home situation, Penelope. But I don't think it's without hope.
So whether you like it or not, I'll be praying.
-Will
Posted by Will Laohoo on September 28, 2011 at 12:39 am | permalink |
"he was saying my youngest son is going to grow up and hit me" – what is this about?
Posted by Jennifer on September 28, 2011 at 12:41 am | permalink |
Yeah, I wish there was more here, too. Because if the youngest son was there and heard that, you can bet your life he will never, ever forget it.
I don't care how crazy the Farmer thinks Penelope is, there's no possible justification for the Farmer to say that in front of a child. Or lay hands on her, in front of a child. He should probably go back to being a bachelor; his step-kids are going to have blurry memories of pig contests and sharp ones of the time he threw their mom around.
Posted by Valerie on September 28, 2011 at 7:04 pm | permalink |
I applaud your candor, and your honesty, and strength. Thank you for doing what you do! People can debate if you are right or wrong but that would imply there are rules for us all to follow and I don't think life is that simple most of the time. Sure, don't kill people or w/e, but even that gets iffy. See capital punishment arguments. In any case, we all know what we can and can't handle. Abuse, emotional or physical, we know are bad for us, but so is smoking, driving, sugar, and a lot of other things we all do. My heart aches for those who are abused and have no escape…but there I think there is a new beginning if one can overcome their fear of change/loneliness.
Posted by MMD on September 28, 2011 at 12:42 am | permalink |
Penelope, when I read your blog I am struck by our similarities every time. In fact, I re-took the Myers Briggs test recently because I wondered if we would have the same results. I am an INTJ, however. I also had to look up the symptoms of Asbergers because I worried I had it. Again, close, but not quite.
My point is, you may be different than the majority of your readers, but you are not less deserving of respect. That includes respect from your readers.
I cannot believe the shit that people say to you in the comments. The Farmer knew who you were when he married you. He is likely expressing dissatisfaction with you now for the same reasons he was attracted to you in the beginning. You're unpredictable, emotional. You have no filter. You speak what you think in the same way you think it. You are ambitious, passionate. All those great personality traits can backfire too. If the Farmer didn't know this when he married you, he Isn't as smart as we all hoped.
As for you writing about this on your blog…. Seriously? He didn't know that would happen either? That's like marrying an air traffic controller and claiming you didn't know how stressed he would be.
I'm not saying you aren't a pain in the ass to live with. But nobody deserves to be physically pushed around by their husband OR THEIR READERS.
Your posts like this one are about real life. You say much of what people think but are too ashamed to admit. Don't you dare apologize for that.
My husband and I know exactly how to abuse each other too. After plenty of fights where i surprised myself with how much i wanted to literally beat the crap out of him, we are now seeing a therapist to learn how to fight fair and not tear each other apart. It's hard to go to those appointments. I struggle to keep my composure while we sit there and some stranger tells me how to fight. I've been pretty successful fighting my own way my whole life. Until now. But I want to stay married. So I go and I tell myself that it's possible that I can still me, my INTJ, slightly Asperger driven self and still be good to this man. And I have to trust that he will still love me when he sees how crazy I really am.
Posted by Penny Rene on September 28, 2011 at 12:43 am | permalink |
It is time to leave. The kids need t go stay with their dad, you need to exit the house, get set up in madison and then re-establish the family. break the cycle. my history is close enough to yours to understand where you are and i chose to not have kids to make sure i didn't screw up – you went with kids – you owe them the best you can do – which i know is better than what you had (which may have been the best they could do), screwing up at work is different than this – the consequences are worse at home
Posted by sak on September 28, 2011 at 12:50 am | permalink |
Regardless of your long-term solution, I think your short-term solution ought to be to find another place for you and the boys to stay for a while. Possibly separately. Without knowing your ex, I'm wondering if it would be sensible to send them to stay with him for a couple of weeks. Maybe you could go visit Melissa.
In my experience, decisions made under duress don't tend to be very good ones. Put the problem down for a bit, find safety for yourself and your boys, and come back to the problem when you can see it clearly. From the outside it looks like you should probably separate, and ditto to all the comments about it not being good for your children to grow up around this, but you'll know better when you're outside it.
Posted by Erin McJ on September 28, 2011 at 12:50 am | permalink |
I know that there are abusive situations in which one person is completely the victim and the other person is completely the perpetrator. All child-abuse situations, right? But here is the logic I see so often: any violence means that your beloved is a monstrous abuser + abusers will never change and deserve no chance to try = the only self-respecting response is to leave your beloved.
Resorting to violence is a common human weakness. It does no good to dehumanize people who have made this mistake. How many families would be destroyed unnecessarily by an absolute adherence to this logic? I know it can get chronic, and sadistic, and all of that. But most people are not monstrous in that way. I don't think the simplistic PSA campaigns about domestic violence have done any favors for our critical thinking skills in regards to this issue. How can people be expected to ask for help when they will be demonized?Violence is an unacceptable response in an argument. But so are emotionally abusive words and actions. To say that the physical actions are the only ones that count is to completely invalidate your beloved's pain, and to hide from the hurtful fighting habits that you need to address.
Posted by Guest on September 28, 2011 at 12:54 am | permalink |
Let me get the facts straight.
You gave up city life and moved to the farm. You aren't well liked or accepted in BFE-town. You feel like you don't fit in. Farmer's family doesn't like you and his parents have disowned him because of you. The schools aren't good enough so you're going to home school but you'd really like to find more time to spend pursuing you're career and writing. You drive 8 hours round trip for "really good" music lessons for your son. Your parents were really abusive. Farmer is abusive.
You have no clue what your priorities are. You are chaos. I adore farmer. I wish you could make it work. It's possible you two aren't right for each other but I don't really see you working very hard to fit in with his life. Mostly it seems like you expect him to change everything to suit you.
If he's abusive then leave.
You're childhood sucked, majorly. It seems to me it's going to dominate/ruin the rest of your life if you let it. Farmer has given up everything for you. I can't even imagine how stressful this has been for him. Yet it never seems like enough. Are you pushing him to see if he'll react? Is this a test that you've set up for him? Do you want him to fail?
In a happy marriage, you bring out the best in each other. You have each other's back. You are sweet to each other and genuinely concerned about the others' well being. You each look out for the kids regardless of whose DNA they have.
I like you Penelope, I really do. I also like farmer and really wish you two could make it work. He's special. You are a mess but you have potential.
I hope you guys can pull out of this tailspin.
Posted by Mwreese on September 28, 2011 at 1:00 am | permalink |
even if you are well known, why do you believe you can't go to a women's shelter?
Do you really want help for your children? Who do you believe has the most experience helping children through these rough experiences?
Please seek those people out for your children even if you aren't ready to seek help for yourself.
Posted by st.louismom on September 28, 2011 at 1:20 am | permalink |
even if you are well known, why do you believe you can't go to a women's shelter?
Do you really want help for your children? Who do you believe has the most experience helping children through these rough experiences?
Please seek those people out for your children even if you aren't ready to seek help for yourself.
Posted by st.louismom on September 28, 2011 at 1:20 am | permalink |
I'm going through a bad patch too, and I guess what I love about your blog is reading about the surprising and creative solutions you come up with to deal with your problems, while acknowledging the pain and discomfort at the same time. I want to shut out the whole world and take privacy above friendship right now, you keep on baring your soul.
I love the way your mind works, and how motivated and committed you are as a mother, a wife a writer and a woman.
Posted by Rita on September 28, 2011 at 1:36 am | permalink |
Penelope â we can't choose who our parents are, and we can't choose who our kids are, but we do choose our partners. We
also choose who to keep in our lives. There was only one man at the
dinner table that you have to maintain a relationship with, and that's
the father of your children. Abuse and violence are not okay and, at
this point, it doesn't matter who is to blame. Are you paralysed from
making a decision because you're trying to figure out who is wrong and
who is right? It honestly doesn't matter. What matters is
that somebody changes this situation. Save the analysis for when you're
at a safe distance. You'll never see the picture clearly when it's
jammed up in your face.
Posted by Rach on September 28, 2011 at 1:42 am | permalink |
Urgh, apologies for the formatting woes.
Posted by Rach on September 28, 2011 at 1:44 am | permalink |
Penelope
I am sorry your life feels so hard and that you struggle with feeling worthless. I don't think it's at all surprising given your childhood.
As a long-time reader and someone who would like things to work out for you, here are some of my thoughts/questions for you to read/ignore/consider:
- it does seem that there is an element of needing 'drama' in your life. Do you think this is part of what's happening?
- you seem to be struggling with the idea of whether these happenings are your 'fault', or his 'fault'. I suggest that focusing on whose 'fault' it is, is not going to move you forward in a healing way
- do you really think homeschooling is the best option for your kids – or for you – right now? Perhaps you could send them back to school and reconsider homeschooling next year, or the year after…
- how does the farmer make you 'feel'? Does he make you feel happy, secure, loved and valued?
- you spoke to your stepmom, and she was really cool. You can't complain about a thing she said. Well I can. She said your dad should come over for support. Do you think this was really the best advice? Do you think your dad can provide the support you need? Do you think maybe your stepmom in living in fantasy denial-land about what type of person your dad is?
- might your life be simpler, and happier, without a man in it for a while?
- do you really feel comfortable having your boys in that highly charged environment? Or do you feel they are sheltered from it somehow?
A theme running through your posts is that secrets bring nothing good with them – which has really resonated with my own life. I agree, secrets breed nasty things.
I would like you to be happy.
Good luck.
Posted by Cathy0 on September 28, 2011 at 1:44 am | permalink |
Oh Penelope, I am really hating this new commenting system.
It really sucks because it seems if you get in first that is how your comment gets rated and then stays at the top so more people rate it and therefore the other comments probably don't even get read.
Im really annoyed because that dumb comment by sydnew is up the top just because he got in first.
Not letting the farmer thank Jesus is NOT a form of emotional abuse. What utter crap. Seriously. What world are we living in here?
You have been "gaslighted" by your parents and the farmer. Its a form of control. Please read the article written by a man about it. http://bit.ly/rm0ess
I repeat. You are not crazy.
Posted by Laura on September 28, 2011 at 1:51 am | permalink |
Your description of events does not indicate that self defense motivated your husband's resort to violence; therefore, it does not seem smart to tolerate his behavior by returning to his parents' farm.
Incidentally, this is the second husband who has accused you emotional abuse. In this post and others, you acknowledge that some of your behavior is inappropriate. I would not be surprised if the altercations were largely your fault. Still, none of that justifies the second husband's violence.
Regardless of who is to blame, the chance for a healthy long-term relationship in the wake of the interactions you describe is slim to none.
Posted by Frank on September 28, 2011 at 2:08 am | permalink |
Your description of events does not indicate that self defense motivated your husband's resort to violence; therefore, it does not seem smart to tolerate his behavior by returning to his parents' farm.
Incidentally, this is the second husband who has accused you emotional abuse. In this post and others, you acknowledge that some of your behavior is inappropriate. I would not be surprised if the altercations were largely your fault. Still, none of that justifies the second husband's violence.
Regardless of who is to blame, the chance for a healthy long-term relationship in the wake of the interactions you describe is slim to none.
Posted by Frank on September 28, 2011 at 2:08 am | permalink |
Cognitive behavior counseling for both of you pronto. If that counselor doesn't work after 3 sessions, get new one.
You two adults need to skill up.
You both are going to have bigger problems than each other one day and you are going to need to be able to handle and model for your kids how to handle.
This is not rocket science – so many people have gone through this
already and you can benefit from all that counselors know already. The solutions are available and doable.
The solution will come faster if you get couples counseling. Or you can take years of pain to try to figure it out yourself.
Posted by Wickergarden on September 28, 2011 at 2:23 am | permalink |
Hey Penelope,
I'm not neurotypical either (I have PTSD and although I kind of disagree with the way the label works, DID). I've been married for 17 years. I (we) have at times been infuriating. Absolutely infuriating. My husband has never shoved or hit me or slammed the door on my foot. He's also never made *me* the problem. He has talked about problems I have, or problems that I have created. He doesn't let me off the hook.
But his respect for me as a person remains intact (and mine for him).
I can believe that there are really difficult things in your personality and in your relationship that could anger the Farmer, and vice versa. But he chooses to be in the relationship and so do you. Is there a core respect there or not? I have no idea, but I would start there. If so, then get help, yeah. If not, leave. It doesn't matter if you're famous. Famous people leave all the time.
Regardless of anything, I do think you need help. I don't know what prompted the Farmer to talk about your parenting, but it all sounds really worrisome. I would start with parenting help, and maybe reconsider the homeschooling. It's a lot to take on right now. A year will not make the critical difference in your kids' education if you go back to it – but it could make the critical difference about your next steps.
A while ago I said in a comment that when you have that feeling that you Have To Discuss something Right Now, it's not real relationship stuff talking, it's drama. Getting shoved around at all, and especially in front of your child is the opposite. It's really a problem.
Posted by Shandra on September 28, 2011 at 2:33 am | permalink |
Upset. Unsettled. Anxious. Sad -Those are some of my feelings after reading this. Especially the ending, it was particularly haunting. If I feel like that how must you feel?
My childhood was rough, not nearly as rough as yours but I too had abusive relationships and I played my part. Alternative energy therapies helped me, perhaps they could help you: Family constellation work. EFT, TAT, TFT. If you're interested in recommendations for good people I can give you some. Some of the work can be done via phone, Skype. Others you'd have to take a trip. Perhaps there are good ppl doing the work where you take your son for music lessons.
Take care of yourself. Take care of your kids. My sons were the motivation for me to get help.
Posted by Cherry on September 28, 2011 at 2:45 am | permalink |
Upset. Unsettled. Anxious. Sad -Those are some of my feelings after reading this. Especially the ending, it was particularly haunting. If I feel like that how must you feel?
My childhood was rough, not nearly as rough as yours but I too had abusive relationships and I played my part. Alternative energy therapies helped me, perhaps they could help you: Family constellation work. EFT, TAT, TFT. If you're interested in recommendations for good people I can give you some. Some of the work can be done via phone, Skype. Others you'd have to take a trip. Perhaps there are good ppl doing the work where you take your son for music lessons.
Take care of yourself. Take care of your kids. My sons were the motivation for me to get help.
Posted by Cherry on September 28, 2011 at 2:45 am | permalink |
I'm sorry your life is in this place right now. I wish things were better and if there's anything I can do to make things better, please say so.
It's hard to change what we believe about ourselves, and I know that for my, my beliefs about myself, right or wrong, control most of my actions.
I'm not sure what to say, but I wish the best for you and your boys.
Posted by Jill on September 28, 2011 at 3:15 am | permalink |
I am hoping and praying that you will get out of there. You're an adult, and regardless of how far out in the country you are, you get to choose. Your kids don't, and there's not a chance in hell that this isn't having a significant negative impact on them. They deserve a safe home, and even though they haven't been on the receiving end of the physical abuse, this is NOT a safe home for them.
I'm sure your husband is struggling with his own demons, as well as whatever he perceives as emotional abuse. But there's never an excuse to assault another person. I've said (and done) some crazy sh*t in my time, but not one of the men in my life have resorted to putting his hands on me. It only takes one time for it to go too far and end in something tragic.
Praying for safety and security for all of you.
Posted by Candice L Davis on September 28, 2011 at 3:50 am | permalink |
Wow. I read
Posted by Spyros Heniadis on September 28, 2011 at 4:27 am | permalink |
Life sure is messy, the amazing thing is that we persist, that things like this happen, and then we talk about stamps.
But learning from these situations, for all of us, is the real power of life, and I'm constantly impressed by what you share and what I learn from you Penelope.
Posted by Spyros Heniadis on September 28, 2011 at 4:32 am | permalink |
Penelope
â for yourself, you need to leave him.
For your kids, you need to leave him.
For your career, even, you need to leave him. Once you get to the learned helplessness
stage, you can only do listless, stymied, uncreative work.
Posted by A.L. on September 28, 2011 at 5:19 am | permalink |
Penelope,
you are braver and bolder than most women.
Writing something like this is not what most women do when faced with
domestic violence. And in reading some
of your readers' comments it is not difficult to understand one of the reasons
women are unwilling or afraid to speak out or to seek help when they are being
abused by the men they love.
I am
ashamed to see what some people have been saying to you. The best excuse I can come up with in their
defense is that for every little bit that they can blame you and dismiss this
issue, they get to feel a little safer.
Bad things only happen to bad people, right? I try to think of them more charitably,
understanding that they are protecting themselves psychologically, and that through
what they are saying they get to feel a little safer, but it's just too selfish
and the consequences are too far-reaching.
We are all to blame
for their attitudes, because we have created and perpetuated a society where
there is a higher than zero-tolerance policy for things like domestic violence. As a society, our responses to abused women
are usually horrible. We ignore it. It's not our problem. She's crazy; she's impossible to live with. We suspect her of lying, or exaggerating. And some
of us, maybe most harmfully of all, tell her to try being nicer to him, that
she just needs to be better and then he'll stop hurting her. No one should ever be encouraged to feel
responsible for being abused by someone they love.
We have created a
society where often even women look at an abusive situation and sympathize with
the abuser. We are nurturing a society where
women are afraid or embarrassed to tell their friends and family if they are
being abused, where the financial and social costs of escape are too high,
where the danger is too real and the help always, always too meager. We don't take this seriously. We ignore it, and we ignore them, and we
don't educate ourselves, and we don't educate our children.
It's sad to hear
you wondering about letting him say Jesus, or whether the dinners you cook
might be part of the problem. I hear women
wondering these sorts of things so often.
In a society where everyone feels more comfortable when we can suspect
the victim of having deserved it, even the women who's getting pushed to the
floor finds herself searching for excuses for the man who crossed a line for
which there are absolutely no excuses.
We need to be treating
domestic violence like a serious problem, one that destroys families, results
in injuries, deaths, and lasting psychological damage. It's a problem that is clearly
self-perpetuating as so many abusers grew up witnessing or suffering
abuse. What we as individuals can do is
be horrified. Act horrified. Be unambiguous in our assignments of
blame. Violence is not an understandable
response to a difficult spouse. Violence
stands alone, and nothing justifies it.
However difficult or annoying or unreasonable either partner might be has
nothing at all to do with violence. Violence
is separate and inexcusable, so let's all stop making excuses.
What we need to do
instead is to spread the attitude that violence â and especially domestic
violence â is horrifying. And if a
friend (or a blogger) ever confides in us that she is being abused, we must
never let her walk away believing she is in any way responsible for the
violence or able to prevent it through changing herself (and therefore feel
obligated to stay in the relationship and keep trying).
We live in a
society that is as fast or faster to condemn victims as it is to condemn
abusers. How could we have let it get
this way? What are we going to do to
change it?
There will always
be bad, violent people. We can't fix
that. But we can fix our attitudes, and
the way our attitudes are increasing and prolonging the damage done by domestic
violence. Violence is not something we
can do away with. But our willingness to
tolerate it is.
Posted by Sasha on September 28, 2011 at 5:50 am | permalink |
I don't think any commenter disagrees with what you say.
Posted by HH on September 28, 2011 at 2:06 pm | permalink |
Dear Penelope,
I only recently discovered your blog, and I instantly fell in love with it. And with you. Not in a romantic way, I should clarify, but simply as a fellow human being. Obviously, I have not read all of your posts; I do not know everything about your life story (and even if I had this doesn't mean I would know everything, of course). But I have buried my lead: I think you are a marvel! You are so amazingly talented in ways that so few people are, yet you also face so many challenges in areas most people take for granted…and you have the courage to tell the truth about ALL of it, from your savant-like success spotting trends and dispensing sage advice to your tearful trips around the corner because of the right/left thing. My experience with Asperger's is limited to a former neighbor, but my sense is that when one has Asperger's one can process matters of the mind much more easily than matters of the heart (in fact, I would wager that you probably even dislike the phrase "matters of the heart")? I did not write to give you advice, as I am not qualified, you did not ask for it, and it is none of my business. I hope you will not be offended, however, if I suggest taking the intellectual approach and seeking to answer the following two questions to your own satisfaction: 1.) If a grown man in a free country feels emotionally abused by his wife (whether or not his wife is verbally abusive is not relevant for the intellectual consideration of this question, simply that the man feels his wife is verbally abusive) is it acceptable or even effective recourse to respond by physically abusing her? 2.) The Farmer said your son would grow up to hit you. Why? What prompts little boys to grow up and hit their mothers? (And just as an aside, this statement sounds like verbal abuse to me). As I said, my intent was not to dole out unsolicited advice. Really I just wanted to tell you that you are worthy of love, and to send you love and support however you decide to handle this challenge! I do hope you will keep writing and share with the many readers who care about you how you are doing. Be well, Penelope.
Posted by Dee on September 28, 2011 at 6:14 am | permalink |
Would you ever consider watching and listening to a NON-religious YouTube video of a song of hope accompanying a slide show of kitchen sinks?
It is the introduction to the FlyLady system (Finally Loving Yourself) and it starts with the sink and ends up changing people's lives. She has almost one million followers.
I emailed you last week. This time I will include the link.
http://flylady.net/pages/jumpcut_video1.asp
The pattern you have followed is to get feedback through your blog, right? Always through the writing on the screen.
If you watch the slide show and listen to the music and then subscribe to her podcasts (aural) and watch her other videos (moving pictures), then maybe something will change. Because you are getting information in a new method.
Posted by Guest on September 28, 2011 at 6:19 am | permalink |
that first sentence encapsulates the beauty of the internet.
Posted by Lori on September 28, 2011 at 8:42 pm | permalink |
Why don't you let him thank Jesus? That seems weird to me.
Posted by HW on September 28, 2011 at 7:19 am | permalink |
Because she doesn't believe in jesus. P is Jewish.
Posted by Beth on September 28, 2011 at 9:51 pm | permalink |
So Penelope is right and the farmer is wrong? Why can't he have his beliefs and she hers. Afterall, noone knows for sure which religion got it right or if they're all wrong.
But it's not about religion. It's about respect for your partners individuality, likes, dislikes and beliefs. Completely lacking in this relationship which is why it's doomed unless things change soon.
Posted by Meg on September 29, 2011 at 2:16 pm | permalink |
It's a family prayer. We say a prayer together before each meal. The Farmer can pray alone and say whatever he wants. Of course. But when it's a family prayer, since the kids and I are Jewish, we do not talk about Jesus.
This, by the way, is one of those things that gives me hope. That the Farmer and I have largely shared values — that prayer is important, that family is more important than religion, that respecting each others' religion is important. This stuff seems big, and shared.
Penelope
Posted by Anonymous on October 1, 2011 at 9:31 pm | permalink |
Why did your subconscious dial your father's number when you were scared, distressed and upset? Your abusive childhood has left you in an emotionally needy state, and your subconscious will continue to reconstruct your childhood dramas in it's attempt to "make it come out right this time". The emotionally under-developed and needy child inside is still trying to get the love and affection, stability and security that she needs and deserves. The problem is that anyone that you can manipulate and coerce into recreating your childhood scenarios will have issues of their own and be in no position to meet your needs and make the ending come out differently. Intellectually you are so smart, but your subconscious is even smarter and sneakier with it! You will keep picking partners with emotionally complementary dysfunctions to your own (aren't the Farmer's parental/family dynamics verbally and emotionally abusive, distant, withdrawing, manipulative, and passive-aggressive?) until you become healthy and able to meet your own emotional needs, or in other words, until you learn to re-parent yourself. You know the power of re-framing and telling a new story with a different outcome, you write about and do it all the time. Re-parenting is a similar concept. You hate secrets, so don't let your subconscious carry secrets of your emotional neediness any longer when it keeps sabotaging all your adult relationships. Your post is amazing really. You feel like an imposter and you just want to be loved, but you're afraid that your readers (your external validators?) will leave you. And it took "engineering" this violent incident with the Farmer to force all this stuff out. Obviously you managed to trigger and recreate the childhood feelings of worthlessness and insecurity and fear of emotional abandonment so successfully that you immediately turned to your primary and original abuser, who (yet again) failed to meet your needs as you perceived them. Are you really surprised? But you can't force the Farmer to meet those needs either. That is your job. And he's as needy in his own way as you are. So learn to meet your own needs, by becoming the good parent to yourself that you need and deserve. Only when you know what your needs are and how to meet them for yourself in healthy ways can you come into a relationship whole and healthy and able to break the cycle and dysfunctions of abuse. Perhaps it is a journey you and the Farmer can make together, perhaps not. If you can't recognize, look after and get the appropriate professional care for yourself as an extremely intelligent adult, how can you expect to parent your boys appropriately and show them the right way to parent. Because your life and example will become a lie of do as I say, not as I do. You owe it to your sons to seek your own emotional wellness. If the Farmer can't take the journey with you and seek his own wellness, then he is probably not the step-father that your boys deserve and need. Screw the top-class music lessons, that's intellectual snobbery to make you feel good about yourself as a parent because you feel inadequate emotionally, and concentrate on your own emotional health instead. It will pay much higher dividends for you, your sons, and your future relationships. It won't be an emotionally "happy" experience for you, but it sure as hell will be interesting…right up your street in fact.
Posted by Wellwisher on September 28, 2011 at 7:24 am | permalink |
Shit, girl. You go deep.
Posted by Clara Myers on September 28, 2011 at 7:41 am | permalink |
Shit, girl. You go deep.
Posted by Clara Myers on September 28, 2011 at 7:41 am | permalink |
P, what is your personal truth at this point? What are the things that you know for sure?
Posted by Deborah Hymes on September 28, 2011 at 10:01 am | permalink |
I read the blog. have for a few months now. maybe close to a year. But I read it via my google reader. so i don't see the comments.
the majority of these comments makes me sick.
i'm a 29 yr woman who is bipolar.
i've been both emotionally abusive to past partners and physically abused by a past partner.
it's never a good idea to stay. but i stayed with that guy for a good 2 years after he threw me down a long flight of stairs. but we lived in different states. it took another year or so to stop talking to him for good.
at my brother's wedding, a guest was being beaten up by her husband for "having too much fun" while he was stuck putting the kids to bed. She went back to him too. I just hope she's still alive.
it comes down to self esteem.
you *are* a good mother. you worry about your kids more than some i've seen in real life. you're concerned about their life experiences. To paraphrase beowulf "you are a good mother."
but, you won't believe that just yet. it takes years to leave sometimes. and then you might not emotionally/mentally leave for a while after that. it's a long process.
i learned that even though i am bipolar and "act crazy," that does not mean i'm not worthy of someone who can forgive me if i'm not stable all the time. being bipolar doesn't mean i'm not worthy of being loved by someone. being bipolar does not mean i am not worthy of being in a safe place.
same with any other disorder.
you deserve happiness (everyone does)
you deserve to be happy with yourself (everyone does but this is the oh so very hard part)
goodluck.
Posted by Kelly Spoer on September 28, 2011 at 10:11 am | permalink |
There's a little too much "me me me" there. You forgot the part about how P. has to (and you have to) learn to stop being emotionally abusive, since that's just as bad as pushing someone. So, I agree with everything you say, but want to point out that it goes equally in the other direction.
If it doesn't, then, um, no – one is _not_ really "worthy" of the love, devotion, etc., of an emotionally healthy person. One wouldn't be able to be in a long-standing relationship with such a person; one would wreck it, sooner or later.
Posted by Ossicle on September 28, 2011 at 2:35 pm | permalink |
*nods*
Healing one's self is part of the process… but (and i should have stated this in my original comment) having self esteem helps with the self healing and stops the emotional abuse. We push because we think we don't deserve it. or we just don't know any better. it's hard. i'm still working on it every day of my life and i found some one who is kind and loving to me without aggression.
thank you for point out my neglect.
Posted by Kelly Spoer on September 28, 2011 at 9:52 pm | permalink |
*nods*
Healing one's self is part of the process… but (and i should have stated this in my original comment) having self esteem helps with the self healing and stops the emotional abuse. We push because we think we don't deserve it. or we just don't know any better. it's hard. i'm still working on it every day of my life and i found some one who is kind and loving to me without aggression.
thank you for point out my neglect.
Posted by Kelly Spoer on September 28, 2011 at 9:52 pm | permalink |
I read this then some of the comments and thought, you set up a camera or had someone capture the perfect illustration? Why?
Posted by Carl on September 28, 2011 at 10:21 am | permalink |
Look, P
Posted by Abthinks on September 28, 2011 at 12:49 pm | permalink |
Look,
Penelope, I'm a great fan of your writing, and I hesitated to post
here because I simply can't write anything that is remotely supportive or
understanding at this point.
You said on Twitter, "Research
shows that good-looking kids get treated better by
adults http://bit.ly/bzHWM5 so
I buy my boys expensive clothes at Bloomingdales.", and I read here on your blog that you drive hours to take one of your kids to violine lessons.
I truly want to believe that you don't even remotely think those things can replace living in a stable, loving household where physical or psychological violence has no place. I don't think either you or The Farmer want this for your kids, so my question is, what are you going to do to stop this destructive cycle once and for all?
If I have to read one more post in which you describe your children being exposed to this sort of abuse (even if they are not receiving it directly) I'll have to sadly remove your blog from my reading list. I suppose I can continue to read you in other venues where you will not be talking about this sort of very disturbing family situations.
Best of luck to you, from a faithful reader.
Posted by A. B. on September 28, 2011 at 1:01 pm | permalink |
I'd never presume to tell you how to run your life. I will say this is a very brave post (as per your usual style) and your professional accomplishments are all the more impressive given all the turmoil and sadness in your personal life.
Personal life. That term suddenly feels dated, doesn't it?
Posted by Matt Tillotson on September 28, 2011 at 1:31 pm | permalink |
I'd never presume to tell you how to run your life. I will say this is a very brave post (as per your usual style) and your professional accomplishments are all the more impressive given all the turmoil and sadness in your personal life.
Personal life. That term suddenly feels dated, doesn't it?
Posted by Matt Tillotson on September 28, 2011 at 1:31 pm | permalink |
I'd never presume to tell you how to run your life. I will say this is a very brave post (as per your usual style) and your professional accomplishments are all the more impressive given all the turmoil and sadness in your personal life.
Personal life. That term suddenly feels dated, doesn't it?
Posted by Matt Tillotson on September 28, 2011 at 1:31 pm | permalink |
Been reading you for years. Never commented. Love your voice. You have made me look at things in different ways though I don't always agree (hell, usually disagree!) with you.
This post…sigh………damn, Penelope….my heart hurts for you…..
STICKING WITH YOU. Stop pretending. Do it for those boys of yours. Your real tribe will march along with you. Sending you much love and compassion.
Posted by Stacey on September 28, 2011 at 2:32 pm | permalink |
I've followed along for awhile now as the drama and abuse you two inflict on each other has
escalated. If you were my friend in real life I would tell you:
It's time to leave. If you don't leave he should force you out before one of you ends up dead.
An otherwise ordinary calm man has reached the point where he feels his only choice
is to hurt you.
It's enough. You are used to equating love with abuse even though you know intellectually it is anything but love.
You invited your abuser to your home to somehow help you??? You complimented his taste in women. He must have good taste in women if he chose to rape you as a child? His wife
must be cool if she chose to marry a child abuser right?
Take some time off from men and marriage to finally resolve ALL of your demons.
Hire a nanny, go to work, (the place you always feel successful) put your kids in good schools and one that specializes in Asperger Syndrome so you will have one less thing to obsess over. Get back to what you do best.
Stop trying to be the perfect mom. There is a reason the majority
of parents will NEVER home school. We would lose our freaking minds! With or without
Asperger's and all of the other baggage you have to cope with.
You have cut yourself off from everything to try and create the perfect childhood for your kids and it has become hell for all of you.
Most of all, learn to accept failure, you can't be perfect at everything and continuing to try is the surest path right back to the mental ward.
`
Posted by Lisa on September 28, 2011 at 3:16 pm | permalink |
Wow! Lisa said everything I would have.
There is no excuse for the Farmer's physical abuse. None. You may be everything he accuses you of being. I'm pretty sure you are emotionally abusive. But you know what? He has choices. Just as you do. Pushing, shoving, and acting out physically are bad choices. And saying it's your fault is a failure to own his choices.
I think you both need a break from each other. And you both need counseling to explore your demons. Maybe you can be together someday with a lot of work. But not now. And then , as others have pointed out, you have two children. They need better role models than both of you. So, please get help for theirl sake and your own.
Posted by AnonymousIsAWoman on September 29, 2011 at 12:21 am | permalink |
"An otherwise ordinary calm man has reached the point where he feels his only choiceis to hurt you."
Blaming Penelope for the Farmer's inability to control his rage, temper, & abuse is not constructive. He is responsible for his behavior. Regardless of the patterns & habits they have created in their relationship – the only person to blame for the Farmer's physical abuse is the Farmer. No one deserves to be hit, hurt, or intimidated, period.
Posted by Lynn on September 29, 2011 at 11:54 pm | permalink |
I would NEVER blame her. I am simply saying he has no history of domestic violence if this is what it has come to, they need to separate. If he can no longer deal with their problems without becoming physical one of them needs to put distance between them.
There is a huge difference between someone who has a history of beating women and a couple who are spiraling out of control. She has admitted many times that she will hound him endlessly to talk it out. That sort of behavior in such a volatile situation can lead to tragedy. EVERYONE has a breaking point. I think space would help everyone in this situation. And blaming him for reaching the end of his rope or accusing her of being emotionally abusive isn't much help. It's not about casting blame it's about
taking responsibility for your life and making a change.
Posted by Lisa on September 30, 2011 at 3:46 pm | permalink |
You've obviously never been in a relationship with a Penelope.
Posted by Scott on November 23, 2011 at 8:08 pm | permalink |
"An otherwise ordinary calm man has reached the point where he feels his only choiceis to hurt you."
Blaming Penelope for the Farmer's inability to control his rage, temper, & abuse is not constructive. He is responsible for his behavior. Regardless of the patterns & habits they have created in their relationship – the only person to blame for the Farmer's physical abuse is the Farmer. No one deserves to be hit, hurt, or intimidated, period.
Posted by Lynn on September 29, 2011 at 11:54 pm | permalink |
Get out. You deserve better than this. Take the kids and run. Now.
Posted by Lisaajb on September 28, 2011 at 4:41 pm | permalink |
Get out. You deserve better than this. Take the kids and run. Now.
Posted by Lisaajb on September 28, 2011 at 4:41 pm | permalink |
Get out. You deserve better than this. Take the kids and run. Now.
Posted by Lisaajb on September 28, 2011 at 4:41 pm | permalink |
http://pervocracy.blogspot.com/2011/07/why-does-she-stay-with-that-jerk.html
Posted by Nin on September 28, 2011 at 4:49 pm | permalink |
http://pervocracy.blogspot.com/2011/07/why-does-she-stay-with-that-jerk.html
Posted by Nin on September 28, 2011 at 4:49 pm | permalink |
http://pervocracy.blogspot.com/2011/07/why-does-she-stay-with-that-jerk.html
Posted by Nin on September 28, 2011 at 4:49 pm | permalink |
Well I feel like crap now since you have been so helpful for me and sending me all this advice. Here is my advice for you. When faced with denial. When faced with enabling. RUN. As fast as you can. As far away as you can. If you are trying to talk this into being your fault that is denial. If you are staying and giving him a victim, that is enabling. RUN. And run to someone that cares. I always said that the saddest day would not be the day I went to my mom expecting her to be there how I want her to be there and being disappointed.. its the day I stop going to her. And your day has come. Find someone that can ACTUALLY help you. You need to take the boys and go. Before you talk yourself into something else.
Posted by Laura on September 28, 2011 at 4:58 pm | permalink |
He is enmeshed with his parents. They have given him a choice between his family, heritage, and life's work or YOU. This will take him a long time to work out and if he picks you he will have to break off all contact with his family. It is all or nothing and they are all he has ever known. We are bred to trust our parents. It takes a lot to break that. Moms burn kids with cigarettes and the kids beg to go back them. It is human nature. It is heartbreaking that his parents are willing to destroy him because they are narcissists. Oh well. I just don't know if you can back off and give him the time and space to accept what their actions mean. If you push, he will blame you. I don't know if you are capable of understanding that he can't just move on. No where worse to be than stuck between wife and family. Also, I don't think he can stay with you after you published that he pushed you. Seems pretty unforgivable, like what his parents have done to him.
Posted by Megoconnor on September 28, 2011 at 5:06 pm | permalink |
The same loving mother who wants her children to be homeschooled for all the reasons you do, can be the same loving mother who doesn't expose her children to an unsafe home environment.
I send you lots of clear thinking and well being.
Posted by Car on September 28, 2011 at 5:24 pm | permalink |
If you don't leave, your boys will marry women and abuse them.
Posted by terri on September 28, 2011 at 5:39 pm | permalink |
I want to thank you for being so honest with us, your readers, about what is going on in your life. I don't read your posts and think – like some do – that you need to leave your husband or you need to get your life together or that you need a sanity check. I read it and think wow, there is someone that is really, really honest about their life.
I think there is an overall expectation that if you are putting things out in the world for all to see that it should be the good stuff, not the bad and I disagree: I think that we are all struggling with the bad stuff and one of the reasons it becomes so bad is that we fail to realize that there are others struggling with the same things we are. Day to day, it is the bad stuff that gives us pause and is where we learn the most. My therapist would tell you that pain is the great motivator; people don't learn much when your day-to-day is all puppies and flowers.
I was really moved by what you wrote in the post about your dad because I think it adds a lot of context to this post: So today, when I have a natural instinct to keep something a secret, I
think to myself, "Why? Why don't I want people to know?" Because if I
am living an honest life, and my eyes are open, and I'm trying my
hardest to be good and kind, then anything I'm doing is fine to tell
people.
That's why I can write about what I write about on this blog.
And when you think you cannot tell someone something about yourself, ask yourself, "Really, why not?"
Thank you for being who you are…every time I get a blog post, I feel like I get a little present in my inbox.
Posted by Krispy71 on September 28, 2011 at 6:19 pm | permalink |
I want to thank you for being so honest with us, your readers, about what is going on in your life. I don't read your posts and think – like some do – that you need to leave your husband or you need to get your life together or that you need a sanity check. I read it and think wow, there is someone that is really, really honest about their life.
I think there is an overall expectation that if you are putting things out in the world for all to see that it should be the good stuff, not the bad and I disagree: I think that we are all struggling with the bad stuff and one of the reasons it becomes so bad is that we fail to realize that there are others struggling with the same things we are. Day to day, it is the bad stuff that gives us pause and is where we learn the most. My therapist would tell you that pain is the great motivator; people don't learn much when your day-to-day is all puppies and flowers.
I was really moved by what you wrote in the post about your dad because I think it adds a lot of context to this post: So today, when I have a natural instinct to keep something a secret, I
think to myself, "Why? Why don't I want people to know?" Because if I
am living an honest life, and my eyes are open, and I'm trying my
hardest to be good and kind, then anything I'm doing is fine to tell
people.
That's why I can write about what I write about on this blog.
And when you think you cannot tell someone something about yourself, ask yourself, "Really, why not?"
Thank you for being who you are…every time I get a blog post, I feel like I get a little present in my inbox.
Posted by Krispy71 on September 28, 2011 at 6:19 pm | permalink |
I want to thank you for being so honest with us, your readers, about what is going on in your life. I don't read your posts and think – like some do – that you need to leave your husband or you need to get your life together or that you need a sanity check. I read it and think wow, there is someone that is really, really honest about their life.
I think there is an overall expectation that if you are putting things out in the world for all to see that it should be the good stuff, not the bad and I disagree: I think that we are all struggling with the bad stuff and one of the reasons it becomes so bad is that we fail to realize that there are others struggling with the same things we are. Day to day, it is the bad stuff that gives us pause and is where we learn the most. My therapist would tell you that pain is the great motivator; people don't learn much when your day-to-day is all puppies and flowers.
I was really moved by what you wrote in the post about your dad because I think it adds a lot of context to this post: So today, when I have a natural instinct to keep something a secret, I
think to myself, "Why? Why don't I want people to know?" Because if I
am living an honest life, and my eyes are open, and I'm trying my
hardest to be good and kind, then anything I'm doing is fine to tell
people.
That's why I can write about what I write about on this blog.
And when you think you cannot tell someone something about yourself, ask yourself, "Really, why not?"
Thank you for being who you are…every time I get a blog post, I feel like I get a little present in my inbox.
Posted by Krispy71 on September 28, 2011 at 6:19 pm | permalink |
I want to thank you for being so honest with us, your readers, about what is going on in your life. I don't read your posts and think – like some do – that you need to leave your husband or you need to get your life together or that you need a sanity check. I read it and think wow, there is someone that is really, really honest about their life.
I think there is an overall expectation that if you are putting things out in the world for all to see that it should be the good stuff, not the bad and I disagree: I think that we are all struggling with the bad stuff and one of the reasons it becomes so bad is that we fail to realize that there are others struggling with the same things we are. Day to day, it is the bad stuff that gives us pause and is where we learn the most. My therapist would tell you that pain is the great motivator; people don't learn much when your day-to-day is all puppies and flowers.
I was really moved by what you wrote in the post about your dad because I think it adds a lot of context to this post: So today, when I have a natural instinct to keep something a secret, I
think to myself, "Why? Why don't I want people to know?" Because if I
am living an honest life, and my eyes are open, and I'm trying my
hardest to be good and kind, then anything I'm doing is fine to tell
people.
That's why I can write about what I write about on this blog.
And when you think you cannot tell someone something about yourself, ask yourself, "Really, why not?"
Thank you for being who you are…every time I get a blog post, I feel like I get a little present in my inbox.
Posted by Krispy71 on September 28, 2011 at 6:19 pm | permalink |
I want to thank you for being so honest with us, your readers, about what is going on in your life. I don't read your posts and think – like some do – that you need to leave your husband or you need to get your life together or that you need a sanity check. I read it and think wow, there is someone that is really, really honest about their life.
I think there is an overall expectation that if you are putting things out in the world for all to see that it should be the good stuff, not the bad and I disagree: I think that we are all struggling with the bad stuff and one of the reasons it becomes so bad is that we fail to realize that there are others struggling with the same things we are. Day to day, it is the bad stuff that gives us pause and is where we learn the most. My therapist would tell you that pain is the great motivator; people don't learn much when your day-to-day is all puppies and flowers.
I was really moved by what you wrote in the post about your dad because I think it adds a lot of context to this post: So today, when I have a natural instinct to keep something a secret, I
think to myself, "Why? Why don't I want people to know?" Because if I
am living an honest life, and my eyes are open, and I'm trying my
hardest to be good and kind, then anything I'm doing is fine to tell
people.
That's why I can write about what I write about on this blog.
And when you think you cannot tell someone something about yourself, ask yourself, "Really, why not?"
Thank you for being who you are…every time I get a blog post, I feel like I get a little present in my inbox.
Posted by Krispy71 on September 28, 2011 at 6:19 pm | permalink |
I want to thank you for being so honest with us, your readers, about what is going on in your life. I don't read your posts and think – like some do – that you need to leave your husband or you need to get your life together or that you need a sanity check. I read it and think wow, there is someone that is really, really honest about their life.
I think there is an overall expectation that if you are putting things out in the world for all to see that it should be the good stuff, not the bad and I disagree: I think that we are all struggling with the bad stuff and one of the reasons it becomes so bad is that we fail to realize that there are others struggling with the same things we are. Day to day, it is the bad stuff that gives us pause and is where we learn the most. My therapist would tell you that pain is the great motivator; people don't learn much when your day-to-day is all puppies and flowers.
I was really moved by what you wrote in the post about your dad because I think it adds a lot of context to this post: So today, when I have a natural instinct to keep something a secret, I
think to myself, "Why? Why don't I want people to know?" Because if I
am living an honest life, and my eyes are open, and I'm trying my
hardest to be good and kind, then anything I'm doing is fine to tell
people.
That's why I can write about what I write about on this blog.
And when you think you cannot tell someone something about yourself, ask yourself, "Really, why not?"
Thank you for being who you are…every time I get a blog post, I feel like I get a little present in my inbox.
Posted by Krispy71 on September 28, 2011 at 6:19 pm | permalink |
I want to thank you for being so honest with us, your readers, about what is going on in your life. I don't read your posts and think – like some do – that you need to leave your husband or you need to get your life together or that you need a sanity check. I read it and think wow, there is someone that is really, really honest about their life.
I think there is an overall expectation that if you are putting things out in the world for all to see that it should be the good stuff, not the bad and I disagree: I think that we are all struggling with the bad stuff and one of the reasons it becomes so bad is that we fail to realize that there are others struggling with the same things we are. Day to day, it is the bad stuff that gives us pause and is where we learn the most. My therapist would tell you that pain is the great motivator; people don't learn much when your day-to-day is all puppies and flowers.
I was really moved by what you wrote in the post about your dad because I think it adds a lot of context to this post: So today, when I have a natural instinct to keep something a secret, I
think to myself, "Why? Why don't I want people to know?" Because if I
am living an honest life, and my eyes are open, and I'm trying my
hardest to be good and kind, then anything I'm doing is fine to tell
people.
That's why I can write about what I write about on this blog.
And when you think you cannot tell someone something about yourself, ask yourself, "Really, why not?"
Thank you for being who you are…every time I get a blog post, I feel like I get a little present in my inbox.
Posted by Krispy71 on September 28, 2011 at 6:19 pm | permalink |
I'm concerned that in the two replies she has made Penelope has not acknowledged that she realizes she needs to get the boys out of there. This is not about sifting and winnowing choices. This is about getting the boys out of a terrible situation and protecting them at all costs. Someone local to her should call the authorities.
Posted by Kd on September 28, 2011 at 6:22 pm | permalink |
I predicted this. It was bound to fail, but it's failing faster than I thought. One or the other is going to get served with restraining orders soon, and I don't think it's gonna be the Farmer. Looks like Penelope will get her wish to relocate back to New York sooner rather than later.
Posted by Awiz8 on September 28, 2011 at 6:36 pm | permalink |
I didn't see you asking for advice from the peanut gallery, so for a comment I will just say that is one of the most poignant blog posts ever written. What you do is your business (either suck it up/do dishes or move on). What you write is your brilliance. Thanks for writing.
Posted by kmhurley on September 28, 2011 at 7:02 pm | permalink |
Penelope:As a public figure are you factoring in how this post opens you up to all sorts of intervention and unwanted attention? From CPS to police.
This post may be a Pandora's box with many unintended consequences for you and your children. Be careful.
I understand the impetus to not keep secrets, however, sometimes things
aren't secret, but rather simply private and not for the world wide web.
It is also possible to be brutally honest after the fact, which I hope is what has happened here.
M
Posted by Michelle McCleod on September 28, 2011 at 7:12 pm | permalink |
This post makes me cry. It could have been written by me.
Posted by PR on September 28, 2011 at 7:58 pm | permalink |
Getout get out get out of the relationship. You do not deserve this. You are a great mother. You deserve a better support system than your dad can provide. Having am abusive parent be your crutch for an abusive husband is not an answer. Getting away from abusive parents/spouses is. I know it's not easy, but it's the only way.
Posted by sarah on September 28, 2011 at 8:00 pm | permalink |
At some point both you and the Farmer have to be responsible adults and parents. Please get help. Your episodes with are not healthy for the both of you and the children in the long term.
Posted by Kenosi on September 28, 2011 at 8:02 pm | permalink |
Is this fact or fiction? Assuming it is fact: I am a homeschooler too. But, I have a safe place at home. If you are not going to leave for yourself then you should for your kids. Staying and homeschooling will only teach them how accept abuse and they will likely grow up as victims… I wish I had a place for you to go but it sounds like your father has some ideas. There is a saying that I always tell myself when times are tough. "This too, shall pass." It means what it says. Soon this will only be a memory.
Posted by Krista Geisel Belk on September 28, 2011 at 8:43 pm | permalink |
That's exactly what I thought when a read the post yesterday, that you were making this public to force yourself out. I'm curious about where are you now, are you at the farm? Did you get away? I can't imagine your situation right now…
I lived with a crazy mother for 24 years and now I have a happy calm life with a patience man. My mother deserved a slap in the face from time to time, but my father never abused her. And I'm glad he didn't – not exactly for her, but for me- otherwise I could have had a totally different situation here right now.
So, battering is not the solution. I wonder, if you are at the farm, does the farmer allow himself to look you at the face? Does he beg your pardon? As I said, I can't imagine the situation…
What are you doing in a farm anyway, with a man that doesn`t love you at all? You've said before you were not happy there… And I guess your children aren't happy there either…
Posted by Karla on September 28, 2011 at 8:50 pm | permalink |
I think I can grasp the conundrum here. Penelope would like to leave as she realizes this is no way to live her life, but she feels that by leaving, she is not doing right by the kids. She feels that the farmer is a good parent to them, and that they have safety and security for the first time (my assumption is that the violence does not extend to the kids). So, once again, the choice is choosing the kids welfare or her own. Only Penelope can judge how damaging witnessing the violence towards her by the farmer is for the kids. Life is not as black and white as we wish, no matter how much we want it to be. I think Penelope will know the right time to leave this situation, but she is unsure that the time is now. I feel that there will be a straw that breaks her back, and I just hope that its not too horrible. Just keep listening to that quiet voice inside you Pen, it will tell you what you should do for you and your kids. Do not listen to anyone but yourself, only you can decide what is right.
Posted by Helen on September 28, 2011 at 8:56 pm | permalink |
Really? Do you think the kids are not being damaged by witnessing the violence towards their mother? I only witnessed slight violence toward my brothers as a kid, from my father, and I can tell you, I had a lot of damage to deal with. Can only imagine what I'd be gone through if it was my mother going through that.
Posted by Chris Monerat on September 28, 2011 at 10:02 pm | permalink |
Really? Do you think the kids are not being damaged by witnessing the violence towards their mother? I only witnessed slight violence toward my brothers as a kid, from my father, and I can tell you, I had a lot of damage to deal with. Can only imagine what I'd be gone through if it was my mother going through that.
Posted by Chris Monerat on September 28, 2011 at 10:02 pm | permalink |
She has to feel ready to leave. I don`t disagree with you but there is obviously some good things she feels are there for her kids or she would have left by now. I definitely get the sense from her previous posts that she feels this is a good place for them, and is now trying to see where the tipping point lies, where the bad outweighs the good in this situation. I`ve been in a similar situation and there are NO easy answers I`m afraid. I stayed for my son`s sake, and it ended up working out. I was lucky in that my husband truly wanted to change and did (he`s not perfect, but the physical violence stopped after I threatened to leave and take my son far away, lucky for me he truly listened and always knew I totally meant it, and wanted to change. The difference here is that my husband is my son`t actual father). Do I believe my son is better off having stayed in the marriage? Yes, I do. But, had that violence continued, I would have left. This family needs help, and that`s exactly what I sought out for all of us when we went through this period. I believe what Penelope is trying to determine is weather they can make this all work out, because its obviously not all bad, all the time. Really, I know what I say here is not the most popular opinion around, but I have some experience and I`m telling you, there is nothing in life that is black and white and no sure path how to do right by everyone, including yourself. It takes alot of careful thought, listening to your instincts, talking it out with hopefully a therapist who can guide you with decision making and not make the decisions for you.
Posted by Helen on September 29, 2011 at 3:41 pm | permalink |
So what are you going to do about it? If you're terrified of being a bad parent, then what are you going to DO instead of just writing about it?
Untangle your identity with the Farm and your goat cheese business and look at your life.
Posted by Susan on September 28, 2011 at 9:20 pm | permalink |
What would the first-rate version of Penelope do in this situation? How would Ideal Penelope frame the core problem if she was on the outside looking in? What kinds of actionable steps would she expect? What are the non-negotiables she would demand for her children?
The only difference between the first-rate version of Penelope and yourself is that you've maladapted. In unhealthy situations healthy people adapt and become unhealthy.
Write down the ideal Penelope's expectations. Read them over and over again until your heart hears them. Then turn off your brain and your heart and execute the action. This is not complicated. It's only complicated because (i.) your heart strings are being pulled and (ii.) because you're overthinking everything–because it's the last terrain where you feel safe, competent and comfortable.
There's no reason to think anymore. Write down what the best version of Penelope would do to make it REAL, and then execute the action.
Posted by Alison on September 28, 2011 at 9:43 pm | permalink |
I love this comment; thank you.
Posted by Sasha on September 29, 2011 at 3:51 am | permalink |
Leave. There is no way to break the vicious cycle. You push and push and push until the farmer feels incapable of finding a way to react and pushes back in the one way he knows how to push back and get out of the helpless feeling of not seeing a way out. At which point you do not see a way out. And on and on and on. Every three weeks you write a blog post with the same content, the same cycle. Each time it gets a little more cruel, a little further, a little more aggressive and violent. If you go to the breaking point, you will not recover, nor will your kids, or the farmer. And there will be no warning – things will snap and then it is too late.
Posted by redrock on September 28, 2011 at 9:55 pm | permalink |
Leave. There is no way to break the vicious cycle. You push and push and push until the farmer feels incapable of finding a way to react and pushes back in the one way he knows how to push back and get out of the helpless feeling of not seeing a way out. At which point you do not see a way out. And on and on and on. Every three weeks you write a blog post with the same content, the same cycle. Each time it gets a little more cruel, a little further, a little more aggressive and violent. If you go to the breaking point, you will not recover, nor will your kids, or the farmer. And there will be no warning – things will snap and then it is too late.
Posted by redrock on September 28, 2011 at 9:55 pm | permalink |
Dearest Penelope,
I came very close to losing my life to an abusive relationship, I was hospitalized many times once with second degree burns when my ex poured an entire pot of boiling stew on me and threw me out of the house at knifepoint for screaming too loud.
In shock I made it to the corner and called my parents who came to pick me up and took me to the hospital where I was hospitalized for shock and burns.
I went back, it took me several years after that to break free of the abuse. See the abuser always seems to have convincing (to us) reasons for their behavior. I spent a lot of times in shelters as well. It took me many tries to get out finally.
After getting out I tried to figure out why I kept going back over and over again, I am a smart person, I am loving, I'm cute. Why was I so drawn to this relationship? What was so appealing about it?
One day I read about Stockholm syndrome and the description of what happens to people psychologically in abusive situations like kidnappings perfectly mirrors what happens to people in domestic violence situations. The strength of the bond between abuser and victim is difficult for people to understand. After all it's perfectly obvious that you "should" leave, except maybe for now it's impossible for you.
I'm here to say that it's ok for you not to leave, and it's not ok for the farmer to hit you for any reason. There is no excuse. Until you can make your own path to the exit, I support you and care about you for no other reason than I've been there and know how hard it is.
One other thing I learned later on that helped me a lot, was that it's ok to love people that hurt you, it's just better to love them from a far, with no contact. Contact with some people is not safe for me emotionally. I had the idea that I had to hate people who hurt me. I don't have to hate them, I can love them, but I have to love myself too and keep myself safe. That is my job.
In any case I've been down this path and it's not one I would wish on anyone. My thoughts are with you in this difficult time
Posted by Rachelle on September 28, 2011 at 10:01 pm | permalink |
Oh, please!
"I'm here to say that it's ok for you not to leave"Did you read this part of Penelope's article?"So it should not surprise you that the Farmer pushed me so hard that I fell on the floor. In front of my six-year-old son."
If Penelope wants to stay, unless she can make sure to avoid pushing the Farmer's buttons, she must at least send her kids to someplace else where they don't have to witness this. Child exposure to domestic violence is NOT OK, ever.
The consequences are serious, and may include fear, distress, self-blame, guilt, anger, etc. Why would you say it's OK to do that to a child?
Posted by Chris Monerat on September 29, 2011 at 12:42 am | permalink |
"The consequences are serious, and may include fear, distress, self-blame, guilt, anger, etc. Why would you say it's OK to do that to a child?"
Because leaving may result in the loss of her life and possibly even her kids' life.
Just sending the kids away isn't the answer… Leaving when it is SAFE to do so is the answer. This shit is always going to be far more complicated than we imagine it to be.
Posted by Chris on September 29, 2011 at 4:37 am | permalink |
Actually, it is okay for people to shove or perhaps lightly hit each other, every once in a while under extreme circumstances. It can be a healthy part of human anger. But no, anything more than that is abuse. The farmer has so far not crossed the line (unless this mysterious "crushed foot" is something really awful) — not that you're necessarily saying it is, I don't know.
Posted by Ossicle on September 29, 2011 at 8:12 pm | permalink |
No it's not ok… and it's a sign of loss of control.
Posted by Rachelle on September 29, 2011 at 8:56 pm | permalink |
Dearest Penelope,
I came very close to losing my life to an abusive relationship, I was hospitalized many times once with second degree burns when my ex poured an entire pot of boiling stew on me and threw me out of the house at knifepoint for screaming too loud.
In shock I made it to the corner and called my parents who came to pick me up and took me to the hospital where I was hospitalized for shock and burns.
I went back, it took me several years after that to break free of the abuse. See the abuser always seems to have convincing (to us) reasons for their behavior. I spent a lot of times in shelters as well. It took me many tries to get out finally.
After getting out I tried to figure out why I kept going back over and over again, I am a smart person, I am loving, I'm cute. Why was I so drawn to this relationship? What was so appealing about it?
One day I read about Stockholm syndrome and the description of what happens to people psychologically in abusive situations like kidnappings perfectly mirrors what happens to people in domestic violence situations. The strength of the bond between abuser and victim is difficult for people to understand. After all it's perfectly obvious that you "should" leave, except maybe for now it's impossible for you.
I'm here to say that it's ok for you not to leave, and it's not ok for the farmer to hit you for any reason. There is no excuse. Until you can make your own path to the exit, I support you and care about you for no other reason than I've been there and know how hard it is.
One other thing I learned later on that helped me a lot, was that it's ok to love people that hurt you, it's just better to love them from a far, with no contact. Contact with some people is not safe for me emotionally. I had the idea that I had to hate people who hurt me. I don't have to hate them, I can love them, but I have to love myself too and keep myself safe. That is my job.
In any case I've been down this path and it's not one I would wish on anyone. My thoughts are with you in this difficult time
Posted by Rachelle on September 28, 2011 at 10:01 pm | permalink |
Get through today. Get comments. Breathe. DO something about it.
Think about your sons. You always talk about how you've needed someone to help you read emotional and social cues because you don't pick them up with Aspergers. What social and emotional cues are your sons getting from the Farmer? What are they learning about how to treat women and the people they love? This is a cycle that you have the power and savvy to break…you are strong and smart and you can figure this out P. As an admirer, I want you around, I want you to tell me grad school sucks and I want you to tell me that I can advance my career, overcome barriers, be sexually harassed, and feel okay when you admit to feeling like you are being a shitty mother too. I will be here, but I want YOU to be. The Penelope that knows this has to stop this now.
Posted by Beth on September 28, 2011 at 10:01 pm | permalink |
Get through today. Get comments. Breathe. DO something about it.
Think about your sons. You always talk about how you've needed someone to help you read emotional and social cues because you don't pick them up with Aspergers. What social and emotional cues are your sons getting from the Farmer? What are they learning about how to treat women and the people they love? This is a cycle that you have the power and savvy to break…you are strong and smart and you can figure this out P. As an admirer, I want you around, I want you to tell me grad school sucks and I want you to tell me that I can advance my career, overcome barriers, be sexually harassed, and feel okay when you admit to feeling like you are being a shitty mother too. I will be here, but I want YOU to be. The Penelope that knows this has to stop this now.
Posted by Beth on September 28, 2011 at 10:01 pm | permalink |
Dear,sweet Penelope,dear girl,
You are asking for help,confused,sad,disoriented as you are,and rightly so.You turn to your dad and to your readers for help.Usually a father figure represents God in our subconscious and your readers,of course,represent society and other fellow human beings in general.
You turn to God and to other people for help,asking,in a way imploring,to be heard,to be helped.Instead,your dad offers vague,lukewarm,ineffective advice- and as for your readers,we confuse you more and make you sink deeper into this with our cruel,indifferent or overly sentimental nonsense.
You need help,you get intellectual arguements or rantings or random nonsense or at best useless sympathy instead.Trully,opinions are like as#holes.Everyone has one and they all stink.
In moments of crisis like this,I pray to God:
"Dear God,I know you are somewhere.I know you wonna help.But only if I ask you to,because you're too much into non-interventionist stuff,respecting my free will and the like.Well,here I am,officially asking for help and intervention.I just can't do this on my own.So help.I also know that you always send help through another fellow human being,because all us human beings are manifestations of You.So please pick out the right human being/manifestation of You and send them to me for help.Please make it just one person,because it gets too confusing with more than one.Please send them in the physical,online communication sucks.Please help me trust completely that person so that I know that it is You speaking through them.Please let that one person help me/lead me back to myself,where I can find all the answers and practical solutions that I am seeking.And please God,I need practical help,not just answers and peace of mind,alright?And make it soon 'cause it's urgent."
Love,peace and hugs
Posted by Eirini on September 28, 2011 at 10:49 pm | permalink |
I haven't read all the comments, but please get out of there for the sake of your kids. If they see that sort of behavior, they're likely to grow up to be abusers themselves. I can't believe your ex-husband lets them stay there after he reads this (assuming he didn't know about the situation before this). You are strong. You can handle this.
Posted by jj on September 28, 2011 at 11:17 pm | permalink |
I haven't read all the comments, but please get out of there for the sake of your kids. If they see that sort of behavior, they're likely to grow up to be abusers themselves. I can't believe your ex-husband lets them stay there after he reads this (assuming he didn't know about the situation before this). You are strong. You can handle this.
Posted by jj on September 28, 2011 at 11:17 pm | permalink |
I haven't read all the comments, but please get out of there for the sake of your kids. If they see that sort of behavior, they're likely to grow up to be abusers themselves. I can't believe your ex-husband lets them stay there after he reads this (assuming he didn't know about the situation before this). You are strong. You can handle this.
Posted by jj on September 28, 2011 at 11:17 pm | permalink |
You have a great opportunity here.
The Farmer is your Imago. Your Dad. You've partnered with him to recreate one of the most influential relationships in your childhood. Perfect. Just want you wanted, on some level. Own it.
Next, take advantage of this opportunity to heal from the past. If the Farmer is committed to personal growth, partner with him to create what you've always wanted in the relationship with your Father.
The first step is to end the violence. Pronto. Allow him to disengage when he's losing control. Don't worry. He'll return. You're also his imago. You're not the only one who wants to heal from their past. He needs your help, as much as you need his.
Perhaps, you could partner with an Imago Therapist to help you both.
Posted by Stepmom In Training on September 28, 2011 at 11:38 pm | permalink |
You are brilliant, in spite of what is going on at home. Just as you tackle that pile of dishes, tackle the thing within that ties you to the cycle of drama in your life. I respect you completely because you are not afraid to reveal yourself….which is a character trait few of us possess.
Posted by Shawn on September 29, 2011 at 12:25 am | permalink |
Hi Penelope,
First of all, I want to say how much I enjoy reading most of your blog posts. Your in-depth research and interesting viewpoints have introduced me to all sorts of new ideas, and you discuss topics, like miscarriage and abortion, that we shouldn't be afraid to talk about. I think a lot of your career advice is useful, and the stuff I didn't find useful certainly didn't harm me to read.
I am pretty worried for you and your family right now though, and I hope you're planning to take some real action to improve your situation. You have written about your lack of interpersonal skills, and I have some idea of how hard Asperger's Syndrome can be after volunteering for four years with an autistic teenager with AS or something similar. But you have some skills that you can use to help improve your situation too.
I've also gotten out of a shitty relationship with an alcoholic that made me feel lousy, anxious and occasionally scared . . . and act in ways that I'm not proud of. By using my strengths – networking and researching – I was able to get help from friends and attend two kind of counselling (one free and government funded) which helped me decide what to do next. First I made him get his own place after he wouldn't sober up, then I slowly stopped putting up with his unreasonable behaviour and improved the way I acted until that strain broke the relationship. If he had been willing to get help and put in some effort, it might be a different story . . . but he wasn't, and he kept crossing the line into uncool behaviour, and I couldn't let myself stay around for that. I had to decide where to draw the line when he wasn't treating me well, and learn how to make it stick or get out of the situation.
You've got great research skills, some good friends, and the ability to make money. You were helpless when you were abused as a minor, but you've got a lot more going for you now, a LOT more. Don't let yourself get too overwhelmed by how crappy and low relationship fights can make you feel. Even if you're not strong on the interpersonal relationship side, your other abilities can help you improve your situation more than you might expect. Use your business ability to organize a plan of attack. Use your research skills to look for solutions. Use your blog and other networking methods to ask questions on relevant options.
You know you've got a problem, and there are lots of resources to help you solve it: you just have to find them and ask for some assistance. There are studies on new methods of mental health treatment and assistance (Cognitive Based Therapy appears to be a winner, as other commenters have mentioned. There's even do-it-yourself workbooks for it). Do you know that there are even consumer satisfaction reports on different kinds of counselling and treatment services? That's genius, in my mind.
As you go along, things might not be easy and perhaps The Farmer might not be on board with your plan of action, but if you share some of your research with him and make a good pitch for, say, the kind of counselling that looks most promising, you might be able to agree on a course of action and start working like a team. If he won't work with you, don't let it stop YOU from getting some help. Improving your emotional and mental health and your communication skills will make you better off either way – in and out of the relationship, and when you parent.
Mental health and good relationship communication are two areas that we should ALL be more educated about. I hope you find some great resources and throw yourself into them like the champ researcher and focused overachiever that you are. And I bet that, if you do, your readers can look forward to some surprising and informative blog posts. Though don't be afraid to keep some parts private from us – to quote Neil Gaiman, "the author does not work for you." and your story is always more yours than ours.
PS – Kids in all schools get good teachers and bad teachers, just like in life we get good bosses/coworkers and bad bosses/coworkers that we'll have to deal with. After-school enrichment can do a lot, even if it's just some stimulating conversation over the dinner table with interested and well-read parents. And you'll probably be more stimulating and interested if you're not dead tired from child-rearing 24/7.
Posted by Linzhill on September 29, 2011 at 12:53 am | permalink |
You know this post sort of pisses me off.
You could listen to Valerie, but I agree, I doubt that you will. I remind myself after reading all the posts, that you're not my friend. Even though I thoroughly enjoy reading your blog and sometimes feel close to you because of that, I am not close to you and likely the other 300 odd posters here aren't likely close to you either. Some are full of advice. Some are just saddened.
But I'm pissed off because I really can't do anything about this at all. If you were a buddy, and you called me then I could listen. If I had a friendship with you then I might know more of the subtleties but I don't. If you were my friend, I could read this as an email then call you.
But I can only post a comment and that is very limiting. And this is what pisses me off. You're telling us some serious info and it really doesn't matter. Not like we can suggest a curriculum or a good recipe or something. You know what to do, and involving us just leaves us powerless. And I, for one, do not like that feeling.
Posted by Lakshmi on September 29, 2011 at 1:08 am | permalink |
Wow, there are a lot of comments here. Normally I like to read them all but it's simply taking too long.
It's people who are chronically sick who tend to make the best healers, as they devote their lives to seeking wellness. It's the search that makes the wisdom, not the instant attainment. So your willingness to share your troubles in your typically powerful prose, and then listen to feedback, makes you not only completely qualified to advise people about how to find career success and happiness, but make me an even bigger fan of your authenticity and willingness to be a mirror for your readers. That's the opposite of being an impostor.
I suspect that we don't have anywhere near the full story on your relationship with the Farmer, so our reactions are colored by what we fill into the blanks, as well as what could be an incendiary presentation of events. I wonder how you would advise someone in your situation, if it weren't you?
Posted by Colleen on September 29, 2011 at 1:14 am | permalink |
I find some familiarity here in your situation. When you grow up in a family who violates boundaries you have no idea how to draw them. It is difficult to recognize what is reasonable and what is not. You need to sit down and think about what is acceptable for you. I hope you have a trusted friend you can talk to that can tell you what is reasonable and what is not. I can tell you right now that pushing you is in no way reasonable. The most important thing to think about is what you are modeling for your boys. Take charge and get whatever help you need
Nichole
nichole@afterthealimony.com
Posted by Nichole on September 29, 2011 at 2:31 am | permalink |
Did you take your top off? That would keep me from hitting you!
Posted by Sergius on September 29, 2011 at 2:32 am | permalink |
I'm bummed because I think that the commenters who are saying someone is going to call CPS and you're going to lose your children over this are probably right. And that totally sucks for them, I feel WAY more for them because they are innocent bystanders.
Posted by Jennifer on September 29, 2011 at 3:01 am | permalink |
A thousand things are going through my mind. I've been reading your blog for years. I was so happy when you found the farmer. Now, like so many others here, I am alarmed. I don't think there are any easy or simple answers. If not to save yourself, then for your children, figure this one out.
My sister lived with an abuser. He would beat her, leave death threats at her job, and she should leave every year. Then she would go back. This went on for years and then she married him. A few years later he tried to murder her. My mother needed to believe that her daughter was okay so she convinced herself that my sister's husband was different even though there had been no "Come to Jesus moment." One day my mom needed to go out of town and she needed someone to watch my brother who was a pre-teen at the time. I offered, but she said that my sister and her husband could do it. I argued that he was an abuser. My mom said that he'd changed. My brother stayed with them for about four days. He returned home and all seemed fine. Ten years later (YES, ten years later) he broke down and told my mom that he was there when my sister's husband had been abusive to her. He felt like less than a man because he was too afraid to help his sister. It haunted him in ways that he could hardly articulate. Do I think you need to divorce the Farmer, not necessarily. I know that Oprah and half the world says that if a man ever hits you then you leave. But people DO change and there can be redemption. The bottom line is that you all need help. Get help or get out. If he was beating your children I'm sure you would leave. Watching him harm you may be even more damaging to them than if he was tossing them to the floor. You are very articulate. You probably win every fight with your words. He wants to win a few too. He's not the devil. He's the man you love. There is hope, but only if you take action. What I cherish about you is that you're an escape artist, Penelope. No matter who you've ticked off or how you've completely ruined something, you always find your way out. So, Penelope, it's time to saddle up. Put your coalminer's hat on and start digging. You must, you must save your children from this and only you can do that. Let this be as bad as it ever gets. Get help or get the hell out. But settle for nothing less. And commit to yourself that you'll always be honest with us, because we'll hold you to your promises.
Posted by Johnson Yvette on September 29, 2011 at 3:45 am | permalink |
There are some people that change …. And some people that don't.
Do you know which one you are.
Remember, you want happiness. If something in your life isn't getting you there-then make the change. If it isn't helping you accomplish yournpersonal goals, is it really worth your time??
Posted by Liza on September 29, 2011 at 3:52 am | permalink |
Penelope, I hope you're strong enough right now to ignore the nasties who have posted here. Certainly, THEY would never be in your situation or make any of the choices you've made. If someone is being honest on her blog, it's for the traffic. Leaving multiple nasty comments on a blog isn't emotional abuse.While I don't know very much about your situation, I bet this has little to do with Asperger's. I have bipolar disorder and have had symptoms of it my whole life, and my parents never abused me, never left me on a corner, never treated me like a psychopath — even when I was so upset I was hyperventilating on my bedroom floor. There are plenty of conditions that make relationships hard. It's always the jerk's choice to be a jerk, no matter what circumstances the jerk finds himself in.I don't know the details and can't say what you should do, but I think the right thing(s) will probably take a lot of courage. Is that the hardest part of life? Sometimes it seems like it is.
Posted by Esther on September 29, 2011 at 4:43 am | permalink |
The farmer issue I understand, men and women might view it differently, but you need to tell him calmly that if he loves you he can't do that even if he is frustrated, because that behavior is poisonous. You literally have to tell him that-he needs to hear that in words. I don't think he is trying to hurt you, but he is hurting your relationship.
Your father is different. Whatever your past with him, you still choose to have a relationship with him. That's your choice, but to mix the farmer with your father is going to mess with your head in a serious way. The farmer is not your father.
We are with you because of who you are, and worry about you like a friend, because we feel like you are.
Scot
Posted by Phelps Scot on September 29, 2011 at 8:11 am | permalink |
The farmer issue I understand, men and women might view it differently, but you need to tell him calmly that if he loves you he can't do that even if he is frustrated, because that behavior is poisonous. You literally have to tell him that-he needs to hear that in words. I don't think he is trying to hurt you, but he is hurting your relationship.
Your father is different. Whatever your past with him, you still choose to have a relationship with him. That's your choice, but to mix the farmer with your father is going to mess with your head in a serious way. The farmer is not your father.
We are with you because of who you are, and worry about you like a friend, because we feel like you are.
Scot
Posted by Phelps Scot on September 29, 2011 at 8:11 am | permalink |
Your post made me realize for the first time the similarity of the sounds of the words "farmer" and "father."
HMMMM…. (75% joking)
Posted by Ossicle on September 29, 2011 at 7:56 pm | permalink |
Kids love parents because they are their parents, despite all our transgressions, no matter how unhinged we are. There is no lame bit here P:) Just growth, resolve and strength.
Posted by Annabel, Get In The Hot Spot on September 29, 2011 at 11:39 am | permalink |
BTW – Where is Melissa when you need her most? Did she know what was going on or did it start happening after she left?
Posted by Laura on September 29, 2011 at 1:10 pm | permalink |
Working with battered women. I noticed a trend. If a battered woman ever managed to get away from her abuser, she would soon manage to find (and attach herself ) to another abuser.
Just my anecdotal observation!
"If your only tool is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail!" The Farmer may lack any way of handling anger and frustration except violence.
I hit my late wife once, 35 years ago. I felt really bad about it, never did it again. I eventually worked my way through passive agressiveness, indifference, ridicule, and then easy humor. When she passed away, her last words to me were "Thank You," We were married 32 years and raised 4 children.
I am a 63YO retired soldier (Military Police) with an MA in IT and an MBA, who managed to retire an eighty grand student loan debt.
I suspect I have Aspergers, as I have always been overly sensitive to sounds and lights. I have always had the reputation of "not suffering fools gladly!"
In my life I managed to piss off many people with my acerbic comments, until I learned that some things are best kept to one's self!
Stay or leave, what is the difference? You seem to have 3 abusers in your life, if you leave The Farmer, odds are that you will end up with number 4!
Good luck!
Posted by MikeS on September 29, 2011 at 1:53 pm | permalink |
This post makes me so angry, and
makes me think I probably will stop reading your blog. You call this
'the truth' and insist that writing 'the truth' helps you deal with it.
This post is very far from the truth, you know it and we know it. What
happened in the run up to the farmer pushing you over Penelope? Or
shutting your foot in a door? I notice you're surprisingly reticent on
those details, I suspect because they wouldn't reflect on you so well
and you're enjoying the self pity. I don't think you want
genuine grown up solutions at all.
I am not by any stretch suggesting the farmer was right to do those
things, but if you're going to expose his actions publicly in so brutal
a way, you should also expose your own – and you never do. This isn't
honesty, and it is abusive.
The only genuine victims in this
entire situation are those poor wee boys – and now they don't even have
school to escape to. And in years to come when they are adults
themselves, they'll be able to relive this horror by reading all about
it on the internet, as will their friends. I'm truly disgusted – you're
abusing him, he's abusing you, and you're both abusing them.
Posted by Sarah on September 29, 2011 at 3:08 pm | permalink |
So, I've read the post several times, and most of the comments, and what stands out to me is this: "I want to have a dad who comes and rescues me when I have a husband who is physically violent."
Obviously the plan your dad came up with was not what you were hoping for. So my question is this: in an ideal world, what would a good dad have done to rescue you? Once you know that, can you do that yourself? Do you know someone (or a group of people) who would do that for you?
Posted by ama on September 29, 2011 at 3:55 pm | permalink |
I emailed you a few nights ago and asked you about my personal life with my husband who repeatedly has tried to kick me out of our home even though I am from another country and at one point was completely undocumented. Surprisingly, you answered and your advice to me was this :
"Move out. Its absolutely ridiculous that youre staying with him. He owns everything and he doesnt love you. You have no choice but to start over. Get a bad apartment and a bad commute– youll be happier."
Your advice stunned me. Partly because its exactly what i know i should do and because I have been reading your ups and downs with the farmer and i think this is the complete opposite of what you do when the farmer pushes you away… my point is, I appreciated your frank advice, and it is ALWAYS harder to do the thing you know you should do in a messy situation and much easier to commentate from the sidelines.
Ignore the mean comments, you ALREADY know what you SHOULD do. Whether you do it or not is on your own volition and we both know that ppl's comments here will not make a difference for what you already know you are going to do- only you guys are privy to the nuances of your relationship. But it is still important for you to HEAR and SEE the responses regarding your relationship and what it looks like from the outside.
We are often misguided by our fears, insecurities and general lack of perspective from being surrounded by our own BS— You have Asbergers, but you are a grown-up, unlike ur kids.YOU put your life on a blog, now absorb what it really looks like to everyone that is observing it and do the thing you know you need to do for yourself, the farmer and the kids.
Good luck to you and your beautiful boys…
Posted by Tiffany on September 29, 2011 at 5:24 pm | permalink |
Hi P,
The farmer is emotionally abused by his family. Keep this in mind. He is not the voice of reason or authority. Only you know whether this is two abused people fighting during the adjustment period of establishing a home and family or if The Farmer has become a menacing abuser. Don't run away if you guys can discuss things and he acknowledges and understands what is happening. You will end up in another situation like this. It is terrible about what you kids are going through but if you and The Farmer can deescalate and continue to work on your issue and improve, you will teach them a valuable lesson for their lives. All is not lost.
Posted by Kusandra on September 29, 2011 at 5:31 pm | permalink |
I've been following your blog for quite a while now but this is my first comment.
Having read the above, I am left with an impression you want US to decide for you when you already know what to do – leave the man! What do you have in common? Sex, I think. Despite what you say, he is not good for you or your kids. Just leave.
By the way, I am male and I think I can see he had his fill of you sexually. You are intellectually far superior to him and he can't deal with it. But you also "abuse" him by writing about your issues this way. The male ego is very, very frail … Get out before they come to carry you out – feet first!
Posted by a critical admirer on September 29, 2011 at 6:38 pm | permalink |
I've been following your blog for quite a while now but this is my first comment.
Having read the above, I am left with an impression you want US to decide for you when you already know what to do – leave the man! What do you have in common? Sex, I think. Despite what you say, he is not good for you or your kids. Just leave.
By the way, I am male and I think I can see he had his fill of you sexually. You are intellectually far superior to him and he can't deal with it. But you also "abuse" him by writing about your issues this way. The male ego is very, very frail … Get out before they come to carry you out – feet first!
Posted by a critical admirer on September 29, 2011 at 6:38 pm | permalink |
It's tough to read this sad post. I want to help in some way, but I don't know how. I know both of you struggle to make the relationship work. It's hard enough caring for ourselves and our own happiness, let alone a partner and kids. Sometimes I feel so awful that I turn up the music and dance with my family. This emotional release reminds me that movement is vital to connecting.
I'm not sure what all that means or if it even helps, but I do feel for your situation. I hope that you can work out a compromise that makes everyone happy.
One suggestion I do have is let the farmer say Jesus in his prayer. You can't control how he feels about his connection with God, but you can let him release these emotions as he sees fit.
Posted by Karl Staib - Work Happy Now on September 29, 2011 at 8:37 pm | permalink |
Wow, this is very moving stuff. I have been a reader of your blog for some time, and I really hope everything works out well for you. Stay strong!
Posted by Colleen Shumway on September 29, 2011 at 9:22 pm | permalink |
While physical abuse is NEVER ok, our lives are not black and white. And against conventional wisdom, I believe there are areas of grey when it comes to abuse. This situation is scary and the farmer has betryed Penelope. He has crossed the line. But I want to ask, is it a regular occurance? Has the farmer been physically abusing you since the beginning of the relationship? If he thinks the abuse is deserved, then he is sick, regardless of what has led up to it. But is there a chance he can get better?
This is a question that must be explored in safety. Does the marriage need to be written off? Who knows. No commenter here has the perspective to determine this. But does Penelope need to be protected? Yes. Do both Penelope and the Farmer need to get outside help? Yes. Regardless of what happens to the marriage. Do they love each other? I'm sure they do, very much.
Penelope, make no decisions now, remain in communication with the Farmer (if he is willing), but get yourself and your sons to a safe place. Accidents can happen and you don't want your life in danger.
One more thing…you are a writer and this blog forum presents you with your own family of sorts.
If you had to give up your blog to save your marriage, would you?
God is with you. Cry out to God.
Posted by Grace on September 29, 2011 at 11:40 pm | permalink |
Penelope, I love your blog. I'm 21 and I relate to so much of what you write, even this. I've been in relationships where it escalated to hitting and abuse. He hit me, and said I deserved it, and I believed him.
I think it's BS when someone says they have to hit you, that you deserve being hit, for any reason. The only time you should ever hit someone is to stop them from physically hurting someone else. It doesn't matter if he thinks you're mean to him, he does not have the right to hit you.
I am so sad that your son had to witness the Farmer abusing you. That's going to scar him so much, it will give him the same issues about relationships that you admit to having. He's going to think, even if just subconsciously, that it's ok to hit people so they feel on the outside what you feel on the inside. Seeing his parental figures acting that way will turn your son into a mini-version of the Farmer.
I don't know if anyone can heal a relationship that has turned so sour. But my advice to you – as someone who was recently a kid watching domestic abuse unfold – is to GET. OUT. At least for now.
Don't force your children to watch it. I have nightmares literally every night, often of the abuse I saw my mom take. When I was a kid, I would pray that my parents would divorce so they wouldn't fight any more. I bet your son has that prayer, too. That's no way for a kid to live.
Posted by Andi on September 30, 2011 at 2:03 am | permalink |
Meanwhile, in Twitter…
penelopetrunk Penelope Trunk @horatiolikestoy I'm contacting you for my 9 yr old son. He wants v trainer electronic battle arena. Can you tell me how to get one?12 hours ago
Posted by I give up on September 30, 2011 at 3:08 am | permalink |
Where do you think this is leading?
What do you think is at the end of this path?
And where do you think it can possibly go?
These are not theoretical questions. You still have choices. Where do you think this is all going to end up– and how do you think that staying along that path is going to prevent it from getting there?
This is like a highway– a dark speeding highway tossing and turning late and night wrenched behind the wheel like a no holds barred down freight way speed train. Tossing and turning just past the miles and miles and the slabs and the stone and the concrete turned past the exit tilted towards tilt path till there is no more exit and there is no more highway and there is no more road block and then it's all over and it's all gone just toward past the concrete.
If you keep going on this past at some point its going to become to late to get off.
You still have exits– an exit– but at the stakes keep rising and the fights keep getting worse its going to become harder and harder till your going to either run out of time or reach past some point of no return.
People snap. It's awewfull and it's horrible but its the God's truth and it shouldn't happen but sometimes it does anyway. It only takes one second for these kind of things to escalate but when it (and they do) escalate it– they happens and it only takes one second and it happens fast.
Leaving might be hard now– but right now you still have a choice to leave. It is much harder to leave with a broken leg or foot. Much harder to call for help with a cracked rib. Much harder to speak with a broken jaw.
Leave. Pick up and run like hell while you still can. The relationship issues, the grayscale, the whitewash, the back talk, the he said/she said endlessly ruminating ruminated scale circle surface circus of it as well as any Asperger's issues are not reasons to allow this sort of behavior.
The bloggers who use Asperger's as an excuse for the Farmer behavior should be ashamed.
Posted by Guest on September 30, 2011 at 3:48 am | permalink |
I love this site! It's like watching a train wreck in slow motion.
Posted by Gail on September 30, 2011 at 4:25 am | permalink |
Well, there comes a time when someone has followed you around the house pushing every button, throwing every mean thing into your face, then you go outside to get away from it and she follows you out there demanding you listen to her vile spewage and you get on your tractor to try to keep the situation from escalating and she runs out in the field in front of you and when you try to ignore her and keep on plowing she throws herself on the front of the tractor….
I'm not a man but at this point I jump off the tractor and pummell the shit out of her and let her know on no uncertain terms if you don't get out of my face I will bloody your nose.
There are some people who will only back off when it starts to hurt. I don't have those around me but if I ever got caught out where there was someone who wouldn't back off of my personal space, I pick up a 2×4 and start swinging out a boundry. And I take full responsibility for this behavior because with some people its the only thing that works. And it works really good.
Posted by Virginia on September 30, 2011 at 6:22 am | permalink |
You put it in a way that makes me feel sorry for the Farmer. Though I still don't think it justifies hitting a woman in front of her kids, and I am a guy.
Posted by Yuse L. on September 30, 2011 at 4:21 pm | permalink |
I don't like hitting anyone in front of anyones kids but I also don't like being abused. If the perpetrator won't get out of my face, I will get them out of my face. Violence is not my first resort, it is the last but if thats what it takes, it takes what it takes.
Posted by Virginia on September 30, 2011 at 11:18 pm | permalink |
I
see everyone saying "Its time to end this relationship and leave"! And
you might get into another relationship down the road and you might have
two EX visiting your house to spend time with their children. And you
will sit for dinner with 4 Men who are part of your life. And does this
go on? I wonder why people are so frivolous towards relationships. A
dress does not suit you, change it and a relationship does not work,
change it?? The after effects of such switching relationships and
marriage are always passed on to the poor kids and it affects their
behavior and personality and the cycle just goes on. With a generation
passing on the ill of their behavior to the next generation.
Ever wondered why you have longer friendships despite having so many
differences and shorter marriages? Why and how do you treat your friends
different? There might be an answer in there.
Posted by Joe on September 30, 2011 at 8:27 am | permalink |
I am shocked, saddened, and alarmed by the number of people here giving you terrible advice. This is NOT about Aspergers, whether or not you are emotionally abusive, how difficult you are to live with, the farmer's relationship to his parents, or even your relationship to your father. Those are all peripheral issues which you should examine and address at some point, but right now, the only thing that matters is this:
He has physically harmed you, more than once, and in front of your kids. IT DOESN'T MATTER WHY. You must leave. If you choose not to leave (you are an adult and this is your choice), your children must leave – immediately. If you're going to take your time making this decision, or wait to see if there's another violent episode, go ahead and send the children to their father's house NOW. You are abusing them by keeping them in this situation for even a minute longer. You're hurting yourself by staying as well, but you are an adult with the autonomy to choose – they are not. Please leave. Please get help. Either way, please send the boys somewhere safe and healthy, immediately.
Posted by Sarah on September 30, 2011 at 1:01 pm | permalink |
You painted such a nice picture of the farmer that I have been determined to believe maybe your actions do cause emotional abuse. That maybe you really are the reason for your suffering. But after reading through this post again and several others from the past (and looking at the women in my life), I've realized no matter how many times you have/tried to get under the Farmer's skin, it still is no reason for him to call you out in front of the kids or physically hurt you. There is no excuse for that. He didn't want to hold your hand at the fair because it makes him look "whipped," yet here he is pushing you to the floor. Doesn't he know that makes him look like a wimp?
Pen, you've come off as a strong woman. There are so many strong women in this world who raise amazing children as single moms (Obama raised by his granny). I'm glad you are trying to give your boys a perfect childhood, but perfection is often the perfect recipe for disaster. I also came from a broken home, but appreciate my mom so much more by choosing to focus on me rather than remarry, even though she was asked many times. Don't think your boys need the so-called father figure in their life to grow up normal. Besides, the Farmer's actions make him the worst kind of role model for the boys.
I hate to say this, but F the farm; F homeschooling; and F the Farmer. The great thing about being a writer is that you can do it anywhere in the world. You don't need any man in your life, not anymore. Not with two boys to look after, and who will look after you once they come to appreciate what you've done for them.
We will all miss the farm, but we all miss your career advice even more.
Posted by Yuse L. on September 30, 2011 at 3:35 pm | permalink |
That's it!
A brilliant idea!
A new genre – Reality Blog.
Reading about someone success is not nearly as entertaining as observing misery in action.
Any mediocrity could feel better: "At least my hubby does not crash my foot in a door. And he is a banker, not a farmer."
I wonder how your traffic changes with this new plot. It is great topic for a PhD thesis: "Misery driven SEO and blog revenue".
Keep up the good work.
I bet you and farmer a laughing now.
Would you let your readers vote and contribute to the plot?
Posted by Peace_and_love on September 30, 2011 at 4:26 pm | permalink |
I really wish folks would be more honest on these posts. I agree wholeheartedly with Lisa. And, I also agree that the Farmer has no excuse to hurt you. But you need to take accountability for what YOU do. You are an intelligent woman. Take ownership. Personally, I know that I could not handle your outbursts, your selfish need to communicate when you want to communicate, not when both of you are at a rationally sound mind.
Look at your patterns. Who is the common denominator in your marriage/relationships? I am sad that your father abused you, but you need to work through these issues that it has caused. You can't say you found the perfect person in the Farmer who balances you, even though there were red flags that your relationship was tumultuous from the start, and then when it escalates to this very damaging area, point the finger at him and imply that you were the victim b/c you picked these people since you were abused.
Be accountable. If those issues are still with you, it's not time for you to be in a relationship. When you were fighting about money, the house, getting married, breaking vases on your head…you should have been the adult to either leave or seek counseling but not ignore it and put your kids or yourself back into that situation.
You have choices. What you do now is your own. But know that first and foremost, your kids are your responsibility. If you choose to stay in this relationship, then it is your responsibility to make sure they are not expose to this unhealthy behavior. Your kids are at a very young age where these behaviors make a long lasting impact on them.
I say this because my brother watched fights between my mother and father when he was young. My brother abused me to no end as he grew up, then he abused his girlfriends, and his wife. My sister abuses all of her boyfriends. After a lot of counseling, my brother stopped abusing his wife, although, it requires a lot of work on his end and a lot of fear that she will take the kids and leave. My sister on the other hand, is still working through it WITHOUT being in a relationship.
I really do wish you all the best, and hope you find what you need or are able to work it out.
Good luck to you.
Posted by NM on September 30, 2011 at 4:50 pm | permalink |
And this jerk is supposed to be what again, the "world's most influential guidance counselor"? No – you are a charlatan, a fraud, and yes an imposter (and no you don't get pathos points for admitting it).
I can't even read your insane, incoherent bullshit. This is the second post I've tried to read – the first was a terribly inaccurate piece on employment opportunities for college grads.
This is obviously a site for unstable lunatics trying to rationalize their weakness and reaching out to each other for pity. What a joke.
Posted by Mshook12 on September 30, 2011 at 6:11 pm | permalink |
Its interesting to hear all of the females on this site pointing the finger at the Farmer. Not ONCE does anyone ask what Penelope did to incite his anger…and before you all,go "THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR HIM TO PUSH HER"…..stop and THINK a little. I'm a Man with a temper…I've been married twice…I've never struck a woman…but I AM well acquainted with exactly how women pull the strings to enrage a Man. Every wife, girlfriend, mother, stepmother grandmother, and friend's mother I have even been around knew EXACTLY how to do this…Its a time honored skill that all women possess.
I'm not making an excuse for the Farmer…but let's not begin to assume he "pushed" her because he had a bad day on the tractor…
Posted by Johngalt2k on September 30, 2011 at 8:39 pm | permalink |
Its interesting to hear all of the females on this site pointing the finger at the Farmer. Not ONCE does anyone ask what Penelope did to incite his anger…and before you all,go "THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR HIM TO PUSH HER"…..stop and THINK a little. I'm a Man with a temper…I've been married twice…I've never struck a woman…but I AM well acquainted with exactly how women pull the strings to enrage a Man. Every wife, girlfriend, mother, stepmother grandmother, and friend's mother I have even been around knew EXACTLY how to do this…Its a time honored skill that all women possess.
I'm not making an excuse for the Farmer…but let's not begin to assume he "pushed" her because he had a bad day on the tractor…
Posted by Johngalt2k on September 30, 2011 at 8:39 pm | permalink |
Having been through abusive relationships, begining with my father, i can tell you that the only way I ever knew for sure that the guy was the problem was to clean up my own act.
If you can find a place of clarity where you know that you did not do anything that provokes someone else to violenece, then you know that their actions are theirs.
This is not to say that violence is ever acceptible. If the farmer or your father or anyone else is violent to you, take your children and leave.
When I met my husband, I realized after awhile that my actions were causing him great stress as he struggled not to act out physically in response to my lunacy. I did not want to loose him… so I got help, resolved to change and worked at it for a couple of very uncertain, difficult years… things are good now….
My hope for you is that you find your path to a gentler life…
Posted by kindred spirit on September 30, 2011 at 8:46 pm | permalink |
Having been through abusive relationships, begining with my father, i can tell you that the only way I ever knew for sure that the guy was the problem was to clean up my own act.
If you can find a place of clarity where you know that you did not do anything that provokes someone else to violenece, then you know that their actions are theirs.
This is not to say that violence is ever acceptible. If the farmer or your father or anyone else is violent to you, take your children and leave.
When I met my husband, I realized after awhile that my actions were causing him great stress as he struggled not to act out physically in response to my lunacy. I did not want to loose him… so I got help, resolved to change and worked at it for a couple of very uncertain, difficult years… things are good now….
My hope for you is that you find your path to a gentler life…
Posted by kindred spirit on September 30, 2011 at 8:46 pm | permalink |
I have worked in the criminal justice field with victims of domestic abuse for 16 years. This post and the majority of the comments highlight the ignorance most people have of the dynamics of domestic violence. First, telling a woman to leave her abusive relationship is just not good practice: 1) it almost NEVER works; and 2) it is the wrong response. Women (or men) in abusive relationships have many, many valid reasons for staying (love, children, resources, sex, companionship, "he's not that way ALL of the time," believing it will get better, just wanting the abuse to stop). Women (I'm just going to use women because they are by far the vast majority of victims) often have little power in abusive relationships and may try to exert it where they can- like in doing the opposite of what everyone else tells them they should. What we do in the field of DV (domestic violence) is to try to meet the victim where they are, reality checking (i.e. counteracting "He pushed me down but I provoked it by having another guy's # on my phone;" "He only did it because he was drunk,' "All couples 'argue'."etc.), and work with them on safety planning. Very few women will leave their partner after one act of violence. Or two, or three (And don't be so sure that you, Gentle Reader, would be any different unless you have been in that situation yourself. There is a reason prosecutors don't want many women on their DV juries: they all think that it could never be them sitting in that witness box.). If the woman wants to leave: great. If not, what can we do to make her safer in the relationship? What we do in the criminal justice field is to HOLD THE OFFENDER ACCOUNTABLE. The question is not "Why does she stay?" it is "Why does he abuse?" If Penelope was chasing the Farmer from room to room, he couldn't have gotten into his car and gone for a drive or stayed in a motel for the night? If Penelope stood in front of the door, he couldn't have called the police? His only remedy was to tower over her, shove her, push her, and slam her foot in the door? I tell the women I work with that even if your partner walks in on you banging his best friend, there is NEVER a justification for physical aggression. Conflict and anger is to be expected in any intimate relationship; violence is not. No one can be "provoked" into violence, it is always a choice (Even "self-defense" is a choice – a necessary one, perhaps, but still a choice. And a physical response to words, screaming, and name calling is just not commensurate.)
That said, just as there are different kinds of abuse, there are different kinds of abusers. There is the batterer who systematically uses power, violence, and threats in order to control his partner. There is also the abuser whose behavior is truly a one-time incident brought on by stress and / or chemical use. The bottom line is that some kind of intervention is always best practice. The abuser needs to understand that his violent behavior is never acceptable – at least in the eyes of society, if not the victim. Especially if the couple stays together, the abuser should enroll himself (or have the court do it for him) in an intensive DV program (and not diffuse "anger management," unless he is using physical intimidation with the barber and bank teller too). Couple's counseling is not even advised until the abuser has successfully completed the DV program. If the woman wants to get counseling on her own to deal with her own issues, fine (and there lots of great programs for women in these situations too that address the woman's role in the relationship dynamic), but DV is not a "communication," "relationship," or "anger" problem – it is the choice to use physical or emotional violence and it is the responsibility of the abuser to manage. What actually concerned me most in Penelope's post is that the Farmer would say – even in apologizing to her (which is actually no apology at all) – that whatever he did was her fault. This is in the top 5 on every list you will find detailing the "warning signs" of DV: every abuser blames his victim. Abusers cannot take responsibility for their choices until someone shows them how to. (And if she's such a bitch, why doesn't HE leave the relationship? Why keep punishing himself and the rest of them by staying with this tyrant?)
To be sure, women often have a different source of power in many abusive relationships: emotional power. Because women are generally socialized to be more in touch with the emotional aspect of relationships (intimate or otherwise), more in touch with the LANGUAGE of emotions, abusive men oftentimes find themselves feeling a power imbalance in emotionally charged situations and resort to the power they can exert: brutal insults, threats, and physical intimidation.
It is very hard to tell from Penelope's post if any of these dynamics are at play. It clearly sounds like she and the Farmer both need individualized therapy and eventually couple's therapy to address what each of them brings to the relationship separately (and then how these styles interact with each other) if they are to stay together. Both of them need to learn how to manage conflict: it is not that a couple argues that determines the success of the relationship, it is HOW they argue. If the Farmer realizes that he is not willing or capable of making concessions to Penelope's emotional style/ shortcomings (due to Asperger's or otherwise), then he has just as much an obligation to leave the unhealthy relationship as does Penelope if she realizes she cannot successfully manage conflict with the Farmer's emotional style/ shortcomings (well . . . having the ultimate responsibility for the children at risk of witnessing further abuse, I would say she has more of the responsibility to leave). Both of the adults made terrible choices, the worst of which was to exhibit their violence – verbal, emotional, and physical- in front of the children. I sincerely hope the boys are given the opportunity to talk about what they saw, how it made them feel, and to be told, above all, that it was unacceptable, and not their fault.
Lastly, I want to congratulate and thank Penelope for sharing this story. DV casts a shadow of incredible shame over victims. It is this shame that often prevents them from getting help until it is too late. Commenters have at once condemned Penelope for airing the Farmer's dirty laundry, and in the same breath told her to leave. How shameful a woman would feel if she didn't follow that direction at this very moment.
If you or someone you know if suffering from intimate partner abuse, there is help: 1â800â799âSAFE(7233) orTTY 1â800â787â3224
http://www.thehotline.org/
Posted by Mjjaaska on October 1, 2011 at 1:39 am | permalink |
I have worked in the criminal justice field with victims of domestic abuse for 16 years. This post and the majority of the comments highlight the ignorance most people have of the dynamics of domestic violence. First, telling a woman to leave her abusive relationship is just not good practice: 1) it almost NEVER works; and 2) it is the wrong response. Women (or men) in abusive relationships have many, many valid reasons for staying (love, children, resources, sex, companionship, "he's not that way ALL of the time," believing it will get better, just wanting the abuse to stop). Women (I'm just going to use women because they are by far the vast majority of victims) often have little power in abusive relationships and may try to exert it where they can- like in doing the opposite of what everyone else tells them they should. What we do in the field of DV (domestic violence) is to try to meet the victim where they are, reality checking (i.e. counteracting "He pushed me down but I provoked it by having another guy's # on my phone;" "He only did it because he was drunk,' "All couples 'argue'."etc.), and work with them on safety planning. Very few women will leave their partner after one act of violence. Or two, or three (And don't be so sure that you, Gentle Reader, would be any different unless you have been in that situation yourself. There is a reason prosecutors don't want many women on their DV juries: they all think that it could never be them sitting in that witness box.). If the woman wants to leave: great. If not, what can we do to make her safer in the relationship? What we do in the criminal justice field is to HOLD THE OFFENDER ACCOUNTABLE. The question is not "Why does she stay?" it is "Why does he abuse?" If Penelope was chasing the Farmer from room to room, he couldn't have gotten into his car and gone for a drive or stayed in a motel for the night? If Penelope stood in front of the door, he couldn't have called the police? His only remedy was to tower over her, shove her, push her, and slam her foot in the door? I tell the women I work with that even if your partner walks in on you banging his best friend, there is NEVER a justification for physical aggression. Conflict and anger is to be expected in any intimate relationship; violence is not. No one can be "provoked" into violence, it is always a choice (Even "self-defense" is a choice – a necessary one, perhaps, but still a choice. And a physical response to words, screaming, and name calling is just not commensurate.)
That said, just as there are different kinds of abuse, there are different kinds of abusers. There is the batterer who systematically uses power, violence, and threats in order to control his partner. There is also the abuser whose behavior is truly a one-time incident brought on by stress and / or chemical use. The bottom line is that some kind of intervention is always best practice. The abuser needs to understand that his violent behavior is never acceptable – at least in the eyes of society, if not the victim. Especially if the couple stays together, the abuser should enroll himself (or have the court do it for him) in an intensive DV program (and not diffuse "anger management," unless he is using physical intimidation with the barber and bank teller too). Couple's counseling is not even advised until the abuser has successfully completed the DV program. If the woman wants to get counseling on her own to deal with her own issues, fine (and there lots of great programs for women in these situations too that address the woman's role in the relationship dynamic), but DV is not a "communication," "relationship," or "anger" problem – it is the choice to use physical or emotional violence and it is the responsibility of the abuser to manage. What actually concerned me most in Penelope's post is that the Farmer would say – even in apologizing to her (which is actually no apology at all) – that whatever he did was her fault. This is in the top 5 on every list you will find detailing the "warning signs" of DV: every abuser blames his victim. Abusers cannot take responsibility for their choices until someone shows them how to. (And if she's such a bitch, why doesn't HE leave the relationship? Why keep punishing himself and the rest of them by staying with this tyrant?)
To be sure, women often have a different source of power in many abusive relationships: emotional power. Because women are generally socialized to be more in touch with the emotional aspect of relationships (intimate or otherwise), more in touch with the LANGUAGE of emotions, abusive men oftentimes find themselves feeling a power imbalance in emotionally charged situations and resort to the power they can exert: brutal insults, threats, and physical intimidation.
It is very hard to tell from Penelope's post if any of these dynamics are at play. It clearly sounds like she and the Farmer both need individualized therapy and eventually couple's therapy to address what each of them brings to the relationship separately (and then how these styles interact with each other) if they are to stay together. Both of them need to learn how to manage conflict: it is not that a couple argues that determines the success of the relationship, it is HOW they argue. If the Farmer realizes that he is not willing or capable of making concessions to Penelope's emotional style/ shortcomings (due to Asperger's or otherwise), then he has just as much an obligation to leave the unhealthy relationship as does Penelope if she realizes she cannot successfully manage conflict with the Farmer's emotional style/ shortcomings (well . . . having the ultimate responsibility for the children at risk of witnessing further abuse, I would say she has more of the responsibility to leave). Both of the adults made terrible choices, the worst of which was to exhibit their violence – verbal, emotional, and physical- in front of the children. I sincerely hope the boys are given the opportunity to talk about what they saw, how it made them feel, and to be told, above all, that it was unacceptable, and not their fault.
Lastly, I want to congratulate and thank Penelope for sharing this story. DV casts a shadow of incredible shame over victims. It is this shame that often prevents them from getting help until it is too late. Commenters have at once condemned Penelope for airing the Farmer's dirty laundry, and in the same breath told her to leave. How shameful a woman would feel if she didn't follow that direction at this very moment.
If you or someone you know if suffering from intimate partner abuse, there is help: 1â800â799âSAFE(7233) orTTY 1â800â787â3224
http://www.thehotline.org/
Posted by Mjjaaska on October 1, 2011 at 1:39 am | permalink |
Penelope, this story scares me. I have Aspergers. I was a difficult child. I am now getting married and am unbelievably happy. But I don't know how to deal with an Asperger child. But I want children. What to do??
Posted by Thomasrippel on October 1, 2011 at 7:43 am | permalink |
I have Aspergers. I am married, and crazy happy. My eldest son has Aspergers. We're having a fine time. We've coloured our life calm. It's nice. You'll be fine. It doesn't have to look like Crazytown.
Posted by Katy on October 12, 2011 at 11:04 am | permalink |
I don't know if you have time to read all comments but I'll take a chance because somehow your post made it through to me. I congratulate you for your honesty, I hope to be at least a little as brave as you are doing that with my blog too.
So just to say, I've known abuse from parents too. I know how we juggle with our desires to be loved and to be secure. Looking back I should have leave them sooner. I still love them and cultivate our relationships, I even forgive them, but I don't forget. And when I'm facing a though time, I appreciate their support but put it in contrast with what happened. I have my own family and kids now and our rule is no violence. That's were my support comes really nowadays.
I believe you are at a crossroad. You have to reframe as they say in social service (my specialty with sociology). You can try to work it out with your Farmer, but it seems there's no love anymore in hurting someone. When you love someone, you do for their best, what you'd like they do unto you. So the best thing I would do is leave with your kids. Build a life on your own and resolve all your problems with help, a professionnal your respect and true friends. Set values and don't let any come close to you if they don't respect it. So far as your kids, I don't know you personnally, but I know too that always being with them is a though job, I believe we do the best we can at the time so if you love them and offer them the best like it seems you do you're automatically a good mom.
If you need someone to talk you can reach me via behappyanddowhatyoulove.com. Hang in there! Kind regards,
Marie-Eve
Posted by Anonymous on October 1, 2011 at 11:20 am | permalink |
What are to writing about? That you wouldn't pick a man that treated you similarly as your father????
That is EXACTLY the type of man you would be attracted to. That "feels right" and/or "animal attraction" feeling will only be for that type of man.
That is why parents must create stable happy families for their children to the extent of their power and talents.
The childhood trauma morphs into what one becomes attracted to later in life. A wise grown-up abused child will consciously choose healthy though boring situations and people. The exciting/ interesting choices are recipes for the replay of the childhood abuse.
Posted by Howard Roark on October 2, 2011 at 12:59 am | permalink |
I am a domestic violence/sexual assault prosecutor who also prosecutes child abuse and neglect. I am sickened that someone as intelligent as you and with as many resources as you have are allowing your precious children to be exposed to violence. Your selfishness is astounding. My heart breaks for you that you are once again being abused, but you are a mother, and if you don't have the maturity and strength to put your children's needs above your own messed-up cravings for the drama of a timultuous relationship, then you do not deserve to be their custodial parent.
I believe from the information on this blog that you live in Lafeyette County, Wisconsin. I will be contacting Lafeyette County's CPS, and I urge anyone with specific information on where Ms. Trunk lives to do the same so that these children can get some much needed intervention.
LAFAYETTE COUNTY HUMAN SERVICES 627 Main Street, Box 206 Darlington, WI 53530
Office Hours: 608-776-4800 After Hours: 608-776-4848
FAX: 608-776-4914
http://dcf.wisconsin.gov/Children/CPS/ctyinfo/lafyt.HTM
Posted by guest on October 2, 2011 at 3:45 pm | permalink |
You are a lovely woman. I can understand what you're going through. I have my own small blog where I type up little things about my life, and sometimes I think, "Why am I writing this? No one wants to hear this silly word vomit. No one cares how I feel," but I type up the posts and then I delete them so no one sees whatever pain I am feeling in that moment, but I mainly use the writing as therapy. It feels good, seeing the words march across the page and all the emotions pour out, public or not. Therefore, I cannot judge you. I hope you figure everything out.
Posted by Brittany Watkins on October 2, 2011 at 3:56 pm | permalink |
Concentrate on the good things in your life only. Make an environment for yourself where you feel safe and secure. Provide for yourself by living on your own terms and according to your own values, and set yourself up for success by uncluttering your real or imaginary attachments. I found that removing other permanent love interests was a good first step, along with removing those that didn't work, permanently, as well. I also found that concentrating on leading a 'normal' life (whatever that means is entirely up to each of us) helped greatly also. Kids respond amazingly to structure and routine, as well as having parents who are centered, understanding and listen. Keeping things as normal as possible – normal school, normal routines, normal everything – as YOU define it, not in compromised format, means they will be happy, and in turn you will feel like you're accomplishing the amazing feat of growing real people. Then you won't have to wonder if you're a good parent. You will know. I know this.
You're in the very enviable position of not having to put up with a situaiton that doesn't work, city gal. Breathe deeply. Stare at your kids. A lot.
Posted by ChrisH on October 2, 2011 at 11:04 pm | permalink |
I am married to a wonderful woman who used to hound me endlessly to talk it out, and seemed to be always dissatisfied and justified. She pushed me figuratively until I pushed her literally. That's the abbreviated version of the first 8 years. We separated, took apart the relationship, put it back together again, but different. She and I each come by it honestly (who doesn't?) – parents with abandonment and abuse, each in their own way perpetuating it with their children.
I see in my own spouse and in myself a combination of genetics and upbringing. We have 1 separation, 3 marriage counselors, and almost 20 years under our belt. To modify our behavior, we've both modified our diets, seek help from friends and professionals, and I from time to time take medication, over the counter or prescription, as needed, for my own benefit. As we age might be a time when I ask my spouse to do that as well. I've noticed that older people tend to get inflexible and irritable, and I'm not sure that there's merit to leaving that be.
I live in an area with a lot of old people, and also a lot of brilliant people on the Asperger – Autism spectrum. My close friends are people who, like myself, were parented by people
with serious issues. We're all tenacious, bright, determined, and
unusually direct and unflinching, for women. One of my family members is an educator who coaches college students on the spectrum. I am known for working unusually well with people known for being inflexible, demanding, and brilliant.
I wouldn't wish my background or upbringing on anyone. I do however value my tenacity, courage and creativity. I have seen the pain and frustration – and loneliness, and self-defeating aspects – of people who are so inflexible and exacting that it is nearly impossible for others to save them from themselves. I have tremendous empathy for the frustration and pain. And I have the humility of having learned from personal experience that desperate people take desperate measures.
You're fighting the good fight. Asking the right questions. Noticing the things that count. Remember what you said in the post, My plan to stop second guessing myself: "when you do something you don't really know how to do in a game
situation, you do it worse than you would do it if you were in a
practice situation." Marriage can feel like it's always game time. Even when you're on the right path, it can take awhile before the moves feel fluid and have flawless follow through.
You mentioned that almost one million people have read this blog post. Millions of people need to know how to get through this, what it looks like, what it takes – how ugly it may look, how shitty it may feel, even what life is like in moments of disassociation, or incoherent rage, or the meltdown. Words that may be a bridge for those of us who love or work with people who have Alzheimer's, or explosive rage disorder, or are on the spectrum, or working to create and root a new normal that will not be overshadowed by an abusive past.
Posted by Michelle on October 3, 2011 at 12:29 am | permalink |
You need to clear all your childhood issues by tapping on the chakras with Margaret Lynch. You can do teleclasses online, and you would hurt a lot less.
And I think you are a wonderful wonderful person. Really.
Posted by Onewestend on October 3, 2011 at 5:25 pm | permalink |
Dear Penelope,
I read this post and I'm blown away. You don't deserve abuse. Nobody does. My late mother used to say, "I didn't bring my kids in the world so that other people could make them suffer."
It all begins with you realizing that you don't deserve this. Once you realize that, the courage to leave will take hold. My mother was a domestic abuse survivor, and it was only the grace of God and a good judge threatening jail time that made my father straighten up his act. He still remained verbally abusive. I'm convinced he suffers from borderline personality disorder.
Please realize that you don't deserve abuse and you don't have to accept it. Your spouse should be your safe harbor from the world. A loving relationship should feel good and be respectful. You may not get what you deserve in this life, but you'll absolutely get what you settle for.
If I stick WITH you, will you stick up FOR you?
I'll be praying for you because it's all I can do.
Posted by Concerned on October 4, 2011 at 7:47 am | permalink |
I agree with one of the commenters that it is time for you to research the hell out of abuse. I learned so many skills to improve my own parenting and relationship with my husband when I worked as a social worker in a military mental health clinic. The most powerful lesson I learned is that people can change and families can be held together even after violence (although not sexual). I learned to appreciate clinical social workers ability above psychologists to get their hands dirty in the grit of every day life. I recommend seeking help from professionals who are experienced with families with dynamics like yours. Look up Power and Control Wheels as a start. Books and therapy are useful but I found that watching clinical videos and role playing classes were the most powerful.
Being a social worker blew my mind. I probably learned faster because I had to absorb the material and turn around and teach it to others. Up until that point, my husband and I did not fight fair. He never laid a hand on me but once he did corner me and scream in my face and I was very scared. I used to do things like jump on the bed to try to keep him talking to me late in the night when he was trying to go to sleep. Once I sprayed a spray bottle of water in his face to get him to focus on me. These are just a few examples that I thought were harmless until I learned about emotional abuse. To try to make a long story short, I am so proud to say that in about a year, I was able to completly erradicate these behaviors in myself and my husband and I learned to fight fair. We also became better parents in the process. Our life is more chaotic than ever, (house is always a mess, daughter with medical conditions, contemplating homeschool, always trying to stay proffessionally viable while my career takes a backseat to active duty spouse, trying to rapidly figure out college for eldest son who I had when I was 16 and will graduate when he's 17) but the thing I am absolutely most proud of in life is that my husband and I broke old family habits and live in an abuse-free home. IT'S NEVER TOO LATE, Penelope.
BTW, I absolutely adore you and what you write about.
Posted by Georgia on October 4, 2011 at 1:29 pm | permalink |
"She says, of course, that I am a good mom. And of course, I do not
believe her. Someone raised by abusive parents never feels secure in
their parenting because they don't understand what makes kids love
parents. So that's my weak spot. Even if I were a great parent, I'd
never believe it"
This passage resonated very deeply with me. Thank you for being able to articulate why I am regularly stumped, and even a little guilty-feeling when my children tell me that they love me.
Posted by VioletteCrumble on October 4, 2011 at 8:00 pm | permalink |
"She says, of course, that I am a good mom. And of course, I do not
believe her. Someone raised by abusive parents never feels secure in
their parenting because they don't understand what makes kids love
parents. So that's my weak spot. Even if I were a great parent, I'd
never believe it"
This passage resonated very deeply with me. Thank you for being able to articulate why I am regularly stumped, and even a little guilty-feeling when my children tell me that they love me.
Posted by VioletteCrumble on October 4, 2011 at 8:00 pm | permalink |
I've only read this last post but have been in an abusive marriage with a woman whom I am sure is antisocial personality disorder. And she was very abusive emotionally and physically and mentally and spiritually. I'm sorry but the stuff I read sounds just like her. She would do these horrible things too me and our child and turn around and cry wolf and would play the victim after she beat the hell out of me. Later pressing false charges and paying nasty games. She is still abusive and in need of help. What I read doesn't sound like AS it sounds like ASPD.
Posted by Onefactionist on October 5, 2011 at 1:01 am | permalink |
I am certain we must have the same father.
Posted by Isabella on October 5, 2011 at 8:46 pm | permalink |
I keep thinking I am going to come back here and read all the comments. Then I realised that 400 different people had found 400 different 'truths' in your attempt not to be phoney and I thought that was quite a good enough conclusion. The important thing is that your husband has not taken this as a calumny, because even I don't care particularly what 400 random strangers think. Well, it would be interesting. Any chance of a spreadsheet? some statistics? oh, I am imagining some kind of graphical cloud representation along two axes gauging different attitudes and the strength of feeling. Possibly, 'should leave' V 'should work it out' and maybe 'abusive farmer' V 'abusive Penelope'. Life is definitely a learning curve. Thank you for putting yourself out there, we can all find our own truth in what other people write, but first it has to be written. Best wishes.
Posted by Anonymous on October 9, 2011 at 8:41 am | permalink |
I am touched by your story as it has echos of my own, but from the point of view of a child with parents like this, and subsequently I am your husband…
My mum and dad fought since I can remember, there were times when as a kid I came downstairs in the morning and mum would have a black eye, or the video cupboard door would be kicked in, all explained away, all accidents.
I can tell you, hand on heart that until I hit my teens I believed all of it, never questioned what had happened and carried on regardless.
I don't come from a broken home, my parents are still together (37 years going strong), I went to a good (private) school and my brother and I are both graduated (sorry) professionals. I have a two and a half year old son and live in the same town as my parents, my mum is my sons "other mother" during the week for childcare as I still work full time.
My parents still fight.
Here's the tricky bit: the blame. My mother is awkward, really really awkward, she never listens, pushes buttons resorts to emotional blackmail can make you SOOO mad you want to punch something, she used to hit me as a child, smacking, hard (cold water shower when I was crying, broken wooden spoons on me). I don't mind, still love her, still think she is fantastic with my boy. I have never seen her be angry with him, or my brother for that matter like she was with me.
My dad is emotionally prickly, he lost his own mum young to cancer, his father was a hard man, working class, told him every day how he would amount to nothing. Dad is a fighter. A good debater, great to talk to if you want good advice, and kind, kind to everyone (most of the time)
My dad is clever, he pushed and pushed to go to university, grtaduate, do post grad and fought and fouhgt to have a really good life now, retired early, lots of holidays. My mums only wish was to have a family, to stay at home and look after that family and make them perfect. She didn't even finish high school.
I don't think the outcome was ever going to be other than what everyone saw coming.
What do you do? They still go in circles, they are older now, I am older, the arguments are less frantic, less often, maybe twice a year, there is far less violence.
Now a new problem arises, I have hit my partner twice in anger, I push him out the door I scream, I can't handle my own emotions (I am getting help) whenever we argue. Sometimes I worry I might not be able to handle my son either when he grows up.
No family is perfect, from the outside though we are, happy family, nice big family home, 2.4 kids, SAHM, big earning dad, well educated kids, eat dinner together every night (until I left home).
My son, beautiful, my job good, my partners even better. No one knows do they? unless you are as brutally honest about it as you are.
So, what have I learn't. Pressure makes some of us weak, we can't see past what is being done to us and so we lash out, I don't know how to handle myself when I get cross, just want the other person to go away as so frustrated I want to hurt (myself) but that means hurt another sometimes.
It can be fixed for some, for others it can't. No blame lies with one person, the situation is bad though and no one should have to live through such pain if they have options.
The next steps aren't one size fits all, you have to do what you FEEL is right.
No advice here, just a story to tell you that you aren't alone, there are people out here on both sides.
Posted by Anon17 on October 10, 2011 at 3:14 pm | permalink |
I am touched by your story as it has echos of my own, but from the point of view of a child with parents like this, and subsequently I am your husband…
My mum and dad fought since I can remember, there were times when as a kid I came downstairs in the morning and mum would have a black eye, or the video cupboard door would be kicked in, all explained away, all accidents.
I can tell you, hand on heart that until I hit my teens I believed all of it, never questioned what had happened and carried on regardless.
I don't come from a broken home, my parents are still together (37 years going strong), I went to a good (private) school and my brother and I are both graduated (sorry) professionals. I have a two and a half year old son and live in the same town as my parents, my mum is my sons "other mother" during the week for childcare as I still work full time.
My parents still fight.
Here's the tricky bit: the blame. My mother is awkward, really really awkward, she never listens, pushes buttons resorts to emotional blackmail can make you SOOO mad you want to punch something, she used to hit me as a child, smacking, hard (cold water shower when I was crying, broken wooden spoons on me). I don't mind, still love her, still think she is fantastic with my boy. I have never seen her be angry with him, or my brother for that matter like she was with me.
My dad is emotionally prickly, he lost his own mum young to cancer, his father was a hard man, working class, told him every day how he would amount to nothing. Dad is a fighter. A good debater, great to talk to if you want good advice, and kind, kind to everyone (most of the time)
My dad is clever, he pushed and pushed to go to university, grtaduate, do post grad and fought and fouhgt to have a really good life now, retired early, lots of holidays. My mums only wish was to have a family, to stay at home and look after that family and make them perfect. She didn't even finish high school.
I don't think the outcome was ever going to be other than what everyone saw coming.
What do you do? They still go in circles, they are older now, I am older, the arguments are less frantic, less often, maybe twice a year, there is far less violence.
Now a new problem arises, I have hit my partner twice in anger, I push him out the door I scream, I can't handle my own emotions (I am getting help) whenever we argue. Sometimes I worry I might not be able to handle my son either when he grows up.
No family is perfect, from the outside though we are, happy family, nice big family home, 2.4 kids, SAHM, big earning dad, well educated kids, eat dinner together every night (until I left home).
My son, beautiful, my job good, my partners even better. No one knows do they? unless you are as brutally honest about it as you are.
So, what have I learn't. Pressure makes some of us weak, we can't see past what is being done to us and so we lash out, I don't know how to handle myself when I get cross, just want the other person to go away as so frustrated I want to hurt (myself) but that means hurt another sometimes.
It can be fixed for some, for others it can't. No blame lies with one person, the situation is bad though and no one should have to live through such pain if they have options.
The next steps aren't one size fits all, you have to do what you FEEL is right.
No advice here, just a story to tell you that you aren't alone, there are people out here on both sides.
Posted by Anon17 on October 10, 2011 at 3:14 pm | permalink |
Infuriating. How does a modern day American woman not recognize patterns of abuse in her life, you know here in the third world where Im in , we tell women not to tolerate violence no matter what religion or culture says. We may not be winning but we are aware of what not to put up with.
At the dinner table, did you notice what was common among the 3 men (besides having turbulent relationships with you), surely you must have noticed some trait. I am saying this because it might help you understand a little bit more.
You mentioned somewhere about the women leaving shelter homes after 8 attempts. So how many attempts did they make before leaving their own abusive homes. Thats a bigger question.
The tragedy is that children or people who experience abuse are likely to experience it over & over again in their course of life. Its not because they are prone to it, its because they dont recognize it as abuse. They see it as a way of life, that something they had coming or that they are being strong.
It is so important to have one decent strong male role model in your life. From our mothers we learn affection, but self esteem, trust, confidence, ambition come from fathers. And oh how they disappoint us.
The only question for you really is: do your kids have a decent male role model in their lives? If yes, then they don't really need to see their mother being pushed around. A 6 yr old will not forget that incident ever. If the answer is no, then you need to stop hoping that any of the 3 men will somehow become one.
You probably are emotionally abusive. The best way of dealing with emotionally abusive is to cut them out of your life. Your kids are going to figure this out eventually when they grow up. Its not like a person is emotionally abusive to some people only. So really work it now, it shouldn't be too hard, you are a self- improvement guru.
The Farmer is a moron of the highest order. He can pray all he want but he's gonna rot in hell. And he's not your legal husband.
Posted by Sadya on October 11, 2011 at 3:30 am | permalink |
Infuriating. How does a modern day American woman not recognize patterns of abuse in her life, you know here in the third world where Im in , we tell women not to tolerate violence no matter what religion or culture says. We may not be winning but we are aware of what not to put up with.
At the dinner table, did you notice what was common among the 3 men (besides having turbulent relationships with you), surely you must have noticed some trait. I am saying this because it might help you understand a little bit more.
You mentioned somewhere about the women leaving shelter homes after 8 attempts. So how many attempts did they make before leaving their own abusive homes. Thats a bigger question.
The tragedy is that children or people who experience abuse are likely to experience it over & over again in their course of life. Its not because they are prone to it, its because they dont recognize it as abuse. They see it as a way of life, that something they had coming or that they are being strong.
It is so important to have one decent strong male role model in your life. From our mothers we learn affection, but self esteem, trust, confidence, ambition come from fathers. And oh how they disappoint us.
The only question for you really is: do your kids have a decent male role model in their lives? If yes, then they don't really need to see their mother being pushed around. A 6 yr old will not forget that incident ever. If the answer is no, then you need to stop hoping that any of the 3 men will somehow become one.
You probably are emotionally abusive. The best way of dealing with emotionally abusive is to cut them out of your life. Your kids are going to figure this out eventually when they grow up. Its not like a person is emotionally abusive to some people only. So really work it now, it shouldn't be too hard, you are a self- improvement guru.
The Farmer is a moron of the highest order. He can pray all he want but he's gonna rot in hell. And he's not your legal husband.
Posted by Sadya on October 11, 2011 at 3:30 am | permalink |
I have a bracelet that I had made. It says "there are no victims, only volunteers". Think about it.
Posted by San D on October 13, 2011 at 6:05 pm | permalink |
Patricia Evans' book 'Controlling People' gives a surprising insight into abuse. For help, it needs a wise therapist, and a recognition that something is very wrong. My theory (you can make what you will of it): it's possible that some people who abuse have a certain type of brain difference, or dysfunction if you prefer. Thus abuse is less to do with temper, or 'being pushed to breaking point', an excuse that is often made – but a distinct issue with their own personality. Moreover, it may be unrelated to learned behaviour, early experiences or anything of that nature, but something that is present from day one. It shows itself in a wish to control and change other people within a close relationship, in a way which gradually increases over the timespan of the relationship.Perhaps people with/around AS understand people with that kind of personality? So they tend to be drawn to each other, and indeed to fire off each other. It's certainly something I've witnessed. Though that's no more than an anecdote, and I have no research evidence for you.Regardless of all this, please take care of yourself and your children. I'm not trying to apportion blame but to say there may be an unrecognised problem here, and it is not all your fault – or your job to fix it.
Posted by Alex on October 15, 2011 at 11:16 pm | permalink |
{{{{{{{hugs}}}}}} from Oklahoma
Posted by jennifer on October 19, 2011 at 5:21 pm | permalink |
My sister told me to read this blog because she was stunned and knew I would be. I started reading all the comments, then realized I didn't have time to read all of them.I think there were some interesting points brought up, not that I agreed with all. But enough of that. I want to say to you Penelope: Get out. You must leave this situation. Your children must not see anymore abusive behavior.It is fear that is holding you back. I believe that every decision we make is either based on love or fear. You have a lot of both going on. But the love for yourself and your family has to guide you on this one. Do not let fear hold you back. You are strong enough to take care of this. Take the first action toward leaving, and then the next action, and the next. Don't worry about what will happen later. Take care of right now. Right now you need to protect yourself and show your children how to take care of unhappy things that happen in life. This is not the way to live a happy life. You deserve, as do your children, a happy life.
Posted by Diana on October 28, 2011 at 10:20 am | permalink |
Hi Penelope,
Well you are my teacher and inspiration. I used to work and slog in a company, I read your blog posts about start ups and started my own company http://www.right-click.in. Your blog posts are my daily mind exercises which help me through my life. You are the reason somewhere my life has changed. Your blog has been instrumental in changing my career. Penelope i am proud of what u have done and achieved. I have high regards for you and that will always be there. Don't worry you will pass through this phase also. Rise up and show us how can a person get up from the worst situations. I will be waiting for your next blog post which will inspire me how you changed the situation.
Posted by Dhaval Pancholi on December 29, 2011 at 12:07 am | permalink |
You keep saying you talk too much and you were the one who had to go to a neurologist and a shrink when you were a kid. What does that have to do with your husband beating you up? Because he will – this is the beginning. Wow. not even an apology? Not even attempting to fake that he's sorry? Usually wife beaters say sorry the first time – maybe even twice. I should know – been there. Penelope, GET OUT. People are telling you that because it WONT GET ANY BETTER. It will get worse – never mind that your sons are watching this and learning how to treat their future gfs and wives. The farmer is a loser.
Posted by lisa on January 6, 2012 at 12:11 pm | permalink |
I didn't realize you had these experiences when I sought you out for career advice.
Posted by Lauren on February 1, 2012 at 1:57 am | permalink |
Wow….last time I really caught up with your blog you were just getting married. Why did I think then that the writing was on the wall and something like this would happen? You were ambivalent about the marriage and so was he…for good reason apparently. I wish you the best
Posted by nancy on February 6, 2012 at 4:52 am | permalink |
I am open to debate at my FB.
Link is http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1408792759
Fuck you whore. Die in an orphanage like you should have you drip baby.
Posted by Zak Ellefson on January 1, 2012 at 4:27 am | permalink |