Divorce is immature and selfish. Don’t do it.
Divorce is always on my mind because I got a divorce four years ago. Not that I wanted to. In fact, when I thought we were going to a couples therapist we were actually going to a divorce mediator. And then, when it was clear that we were going to have to get a divorce, and I had all the money to fund it, my lawyer finally said to me, “If you drag your feet any longer, you’re going to have to get a new lawyer because I’m retiring.”
So we got a divorce. I hated it. (And of course, I blogged about it the whole time.) Subsequently I have become a vocal critic of divorce. I think it’s an incredibly lame and selfish route to take. Here are five reasons why:
1. Divorce is a cliche among people in denial.
I see divorce in every story. For example, as soon as I heard about the school shootings in Chardon, OH, I got stuck on the fact that the kid’s parents had just gotten a divorce and left him with his grandparents. I blame the parents.
Heather Armstrong is a great blogger who I have followed for years. But I’m really stuck on the news that she just announced a separation from her husband.
Armstrong supports her family with her blog, dooce.com, which is about herself, so of course, I watch her really closely. In her post announcing that she had asked her husband to leave, she said the two common, and delusional things we hear from divorced parents all the time:
“I can’t be a good parent if I’m not happy and I’ll never be happy in this marriage.”
and
“The kids are doing so well. Kids are really resilient.”
I’ve heard those things so many times. From parents who are getting a divorce who are full of shit.
The dad who tells everyone he got a divorce because his wife is crazy and then leaves his kids with the mom. Newsflash: if your wife is really crazy, then you are crazy for leaving your kids alone with her. In fact, you are not crazy, you’re willfully negligent. And if your wife is not really crazy then get your butt back to the house and raise your kids like an adult.
The mom who says the kids are fine. What does that mean? Do you know that if you ask kids who are living with a crack addict mom if they are fine, they’ll say yes. They’ll say they want to stay. Because kids are trying to survive.
2. Divorce is nearly always terrible for kids. Your case is not the exception.
Kids do not break down during a divorce because they see their parents breaking down. The kids see that one parent just abandoned them. Of course the kid is not going to have a compete fit and push another parent away in anger. Read The Unexpected Legacy of Divorce, which is Judith Wallerstein’s 25-year study of children of divorce. It’s the only study that covers such a long period of time, and she concludes that divorce is absolutely terrible for kids over the long-term. And a wide range of studies have concurred.
It’s completely obvious how Wallerstein gets to her conclusion. Think of it this way: Two parents decide they don’t like living together and they want to start over. They can’t meet their needs by simply living together and making the best of it. They want a new chance, in a new household.
Where does this leave the kids? They don’t get a new chance until they grow up. So now they have to shuttle back and forth between two homes so that their parents can get another chance. Meanwhile, the kids don’t get a second chance at their childhood. And the most damaging thing about divorce is that the kids don’t have a home; to say a kid has two homes is the same as saying the kid has no home. Because a home is your basecamp. If you have two basecamps you don’t have a home.
And anyway, if having two homes really worked, then the parents who are so upset about living together can each have a different home during the day, while the kids are at school, and then come back to their other home. But no one would do that, right? Because having two homes sucks.
3. Divorce is for dumb people.
In case you are thinking that divorce is normal among smart, educated parents, you would be wrong. The divorce rate is plummeting among educated women. For example, among Asian women with a college degree the divorce rate is one percent. Divorce is for people who can’t think ahead enough to realize that the cost to the kids is so high that it’s not worth the benefits the parents get.
4. Divorce reflects mental illness.
I have been reading tons of books about borderline personality disorder and parenting, and I’m surprised that no one has pointed out that the decision to divorce is similar to the decision making process that you get with borderline personality disorder.
For example, a parent with BPD is often unable to separate their own wellbeing from their child’s. The person with BPD is afraid of not being loved and makes all their decisions based on that fear.
So, the person decides they are not receiving proper love in their marriage and then decides that the children would be better off if the marriage were over. The marriage being over is not good for the children. But that is not the issue.
Why do we treat people with BPD as mentally ill and people getting a divorce as adults making adult decisions?
5. Divorce is often a career issue. I can help with that.
So many times I have been coaching someone who thought they need a divorce, but really, the marriage has a career issue. So, look, when there are no kids, I don’t think there’s a lot of collateral damage when two people want a divorce. But maybe I can save a few children’s childhoods by telling you some common problems and how to solve them:
The woman is pissed that her husband hasn’t gotten a good paying job in years.
This type of woman feels overly responsible for taking care of the family. And she feels taken advantage of by the guy because she thinks he could get a job if he wanted to. (This is probably where Heather is coming from since her husband, who has been working on her blog for years, announced he is looking for a job.)
The problem, though, is that the woman married a guy who doesn’t want to have a big career. She knew this before they got married, but she chose to ignore it. There was probably something she liked about him, something she needed from him, that he provided. Now she wants something different.
The solution is to stop being angry at the guy for not getting a job. Remember that the kids love him and remind yourself the reasons you loved him when you married him. Those things are still there. If you get a divorce you are not going to be able to miraculously stop working. So bite the bullet and accept where you are and finish raising the kids.
Bonus: If you start loving your husband again you will probably love your job again because you’ll feel good that the job allows you to create a happy family.
The guy who thinks his wife is holding back his career.
Oh, god, I hear this so many times. The guy is not where he wants to be in his career. He has so many ideas, so many dreams, and he is really unhappy where his is.
The answer here is: tough shit. You had kids before you fulfilled all your career dreams. Unless you are independently wealthy, you have to scale back your dreams when you have kids because you can’t take wild financial risks with your family’s wellbeing.
So you have kids and a wife, and you have to get a reality check that you are not going to be Mark Zuckerberg. It’s okay. Just focus on being a good father and a good husband and stay with your wife and kids.
It is incredibly selfish and immature to decide your kids should have to shuttle between two families so you can take another swing at a home run. It’s time for you to be a good dad. That’s your job now. You owe it to your kids.
Bonus: Once you start taking pride in being a good parent and a good husband, you will have better self-esteem and your career will get better as a result of that.
The person who is bored and wants out.
So many people get divorced because they are bored. This blows my mind. Your kids are not bored with your marriage. Your kids need boring at home in order to have the necessary foundation to fly outside the home. If your kids are focused on creating their own stability bouncing between two parents then the kids can’t focus on figuring out who they are while they grow up. They have to spend their time figuring out who their family is. And that’s not fair to your kids.
A job absolutely 100% cannot make you happy. A happy family can make you happy and it’s possible that nothing else really even comes close to making a person happy.
So instead of messing up your family in order to make yourself happy, keep your family together and use your job to address your boredom problem. A fun job can make your life more interesting. Your spouse is not in your life to make you feel interesting. Your spouse is there to love you and raise your kids with you. Don’t ask for anything else.
If you want to feel more interesting then go do something more interesting. And come home for dinner.
The person who says they are a victim of violence.
Two-thirds of divorces take place in low-conflict homes, and in those cases, the kids are much better off if the parent just stick it out.
So let’s look at high-conflict homes: It takes two people to fight. And there’s great research to show that if you picked an asshole the first time, you’ll pick the same type of asshole the second time. (Which is why divorce rates for second marriages are so much higher than first marriages.) So instead of getting rid of your kids’ parent, figure out why you picked a person like this, and then get good at drawing boundaries.
Really, good boundaries can save even the worse marriages. Taking care of your own contribution to the mess can single-handedly stop the mess.
This is especially true of violence. At this point in the history, where women have so much earning power, women are equally as responsible for men for the violence in a household. In fact, the US Centers for Disease Control reports that most domestic violence today is a 50/50 thing. Both parties are responsible. Which means that even if you have one of the worst marriages, you have the power to fix it.
And if you don’t use that power—if you don’t fundamentally change how you are in the marriage in order to stop the craziness, then you will not only recreate it in your next relationship, but you will continue to model it for your kids.
So look, I don’t see any reason left that makes divorce ok when there are kids. Personal responsibility always trumps running away. And yes, here are the links to my own marital violence and my decison to stay and fix it. I’m practicing what I preach. I’m working really hard at keeping my own marriage together. It’s a cold, lonely place to be in life. But it’s better than the alternative.
Because divorce is the ultimate example of just running away. And, while your kids probably will not pull out a gun in the school cafeteria, long-term sadness and a lingering inability to connect to other people is an irrefutable result of divorce. It’s something that you can prevent.
Well it’s clear that the writer has never lived with a physically & mentally abusive alcoholic gambler.
How would you feel if someone took your advice and then ended up dead by staying in a violent relationship? You probably wouldn’t feel a thing after 5 minutes. Very sad.
I’ve read your blog for years and never disagreed or agreed with something you’ve said so strongly that I felt the need to comment- until now. While I do believe there are certain instances where infidelity or abuse should result in the end of a marriage, I think far too many marriages end for the other reasons you describe.
I came across a quote I liked recently that went something like this, “The grass isn’t greener on the other side. The grass is greener where you water it.”
Lady, the grass is also greener where someone hasn’t purposely spilled bleach and other toxins. And the grass is greener where it hasn’t been pulled out. And the grass is greener where two hands are growing it together. blah blah blah. We can argue quotes all day, but at the end, no blanket statement covers every circumstance.
That’s true. One blanket statement does not cover all situations- and I believe I stated that in my comment. There are situations that arise in a marriage that should end in divorce. But for those claiming “boredom” or “love vs being IN love”- it’s hard for you to win me over in those cases.
You forgot another reason why people divorce, Penelope. Some people divorce when one parent is bad for the children. I think your mother would have done you a favor by leaving the father who beat and sexually abused you. Actually, I think she had a moral obligation to you to divorce.
I actually wish I could retract this. I still think divorce can be a moral obligation, but I shouldn’t have used any particular person’s situation that wasn’t my own. Next time, it will be my neck that I stick out.
I think I figured it out. Penelope sold this site to the Onion, and they just haven’t changed the branding yet.
That’s the only rational explanation for a post that advocates staying in an abusive relationship, “you know, for the kids!”
My mother divorced my father. She had been cheating on him for years and was very abusive to my siblings and myself.
My father thought he should stick it out no matter what, but he thought about leaving many times. He thought that maybe leaving us with my mother would somehow be better for us. Fortunately that was not the course of action he chose.
I was 16 when the divorce was finalized. I spent over a year being homeless in the traditional sense of the word. It was the best year of my childhood.
Divorce is a good thing when it removes the abuser from the home. Otherwise, we probably need to take a deep breath and work through our shit.
In my honest opinion, I think that divorce can be a great thing for some families, but not for others. If the situation is simple, they should not try to cover up their problems by getting a divorce. It will not help their problems but make them worse for their family members. But if the situation is bad, they should be able to get a divorce to get out of that terrible situation whatever it may be.
I don’t agree with your argument, not one point of it. Sure, people get divorced frivolously- but forcing children to live amidst an unhappy or dead marriage is not in any way good modeling, or healthy – and in a case where violence (verbal/physical : spousal/child abuse)can be extremely damaging. Sure, you should try to work out your problems to the fullest extent – but sometimes issues can’t be resolved and you should never stay in a marriage at the expense of your happiness and well-being. Not if you want happy, healthy children, and not if you want to be a happy health person yourself. This has been both my personal experience as a child growing up with parents who were very unhappily married yet stayed together until we were grown, and as a single parent with a healthy and well adjusted teenager. I think you’re trying to “talk your walk” here, and I just can’t buy it.
this is a great topic – it does leave me with one question. My son has Aspergers (which is why I follow your blog – I love the insight into his mind you provide). My husband and my son do not get along – at all. My husband was mr. popularity in high school. His son is the typical aspie social outcast. My husband cannot understand his son and makes to attempt to. He does not attend his therpy sessions. He does not get involved in school meetings. Most conversations in our home end with my husband losing his patience and leaving. Our marriage is great. My husband does not like his kid. I am thinking of leaving to bring a level of calm to our son he does not have when his dad is around. Do you think your rules above apply to kids that do not fall in the normal social world?
Nancy, this is a great question, and it’s a perfect example of what I’m talking about, with divorce.
The boy’s dad does not like him whether or not you guys are married. It’s not like divorcing his dad makes his dad like him.
What divorcing his dad does do is mean that he has to go to another house, with another set of rules and routines if he wants to see his dad.
This is really really hard for someone with Aspergers. Difficult social situation are hard enough – but to be in a new routine as well means that the person with Aspergers has to start checking out in order to cope. Not checking out totally. But a little. To manage all the new inputs.
So the interactions with the dad will become more stressful, not less stressful.
Other factors: Aspergers is very expensive to deal with because the more one-on-one help you get the higher functioning the person will be. (This does not end in adulthood, by the way. The majority of my money goes to paying people to help me do normal, every day things that are very hard for me, like, calling the car mechanic to set up a time to change my tires.) If you divorce, there will be less money to help your son because there will be two households to run. Also, you will have less emotional support from your husband and so you will have a harder time coping with your son’s special needs.
Finally, mothers are nearly always the primary parent for a child with special needs. The male/female gulf in parenting duties is always there, but it becomes absolutely enormous once a kid has special needs, in all marriages. I have never seen an exception. This is why 90% of marriages where there is an autistic child end in divorce.
So there are exceptions. But my point is that you are coping with what most mothers of special needs kids cope with: you are alone and you are scared for your kid and your marriage is not as important to you as your kid is.
But for your kids’ sake, staying in that marriage is a good thing.
Penelope
Penelope, she is already a single mother. Married but doing everything herself.
Excellent post. I’ll share an experience of mine.
A very dear workfriend divorced her husband. He was always an egocentric jerk and apparently screwed around on my friend, which is inexplicable because she was an absolutely fantastic sex partner.
She’s on the rebound, trying the rebuild her self-esteem, so being a very good friend I take care of the rebound boyfriend job. She has a daughter, about 5 years old. I keep the daughter out of the picture (friend and I only hook up when daughter is visiting her daddy).
The girl and I *do* know each other, though, because I’m friends with her mom. One day we’re playing dolls or something and this 5 year old girl looks at me with incredible pain and blurts out,
“My daddy doesn’t love me.”
Of all the horrible stuff I’ve seen in my life, including taking coroner’s photos of car fatalities, this was the worst I’ve ever experienced.
I got right in her face and told her, “No, no, no . . . All daddies love their daughters more than anything in the world!” I carried on with more lecturing but there was no consoling this girl. She just shut me down with,
“Then why doesn’t he come home?”
I definitely understood how my workfriend would want to get away from the jerk she married too young. But I couldn’t forgive her for breaking up her daughter’s home.
We adults have the luxury of choices, some good, many bad. The bad ones, EVERY time, are based on some form of selfishness. The little humans we incubate DON’T have choices. They’re stuck with the ones their parents make.
So, in essence, children are the constant reminder to stop wallowing in our selfishness. A lifelong lesson in themselves. We (selfishly) think we’re their teachers, but they are the teachers. Because as we learn to recognize our selfishness, we become better at making GOOD choices — in everything.
To put it another way — the amount of difficulty in parenting is directly related to our personal level of selfishness.
Or, as I infuriatingly tell my wife . . .
Don’t Do the Crime, If You Can’t Do the Time
Anyway, if you’re still reading this comment, move on to the ones who are deriding Pen’s post and as you measure their worth, LOOK for THE SELFISHNESS. It’s the test you can use to find what’s wrong and right in all parts of life.
Penelope, although you make many good points, you oversimiplify the huge, complicated issue of divorce- perhaps to justify your own personal marital/family decisions. That said, I love your career advice and look forward to seeing more of that.
I can only assume that this whole post is a joke. If it’s not, then all I can say is that sometimes it’s a lot easier to stay in a difficult situation than admitting you made a mistake and getting out. I’m glad my parents got divorced. It was the best decision for EVERYONE involved.
Maybe marriage is immature and selfish in the first place – it’s something makes people think they are entitled to love.
As well as having kids – kids are extensions of one’s genes.
It’s true marriage provides a good lesson, however one chooses to tackle it and whatever they choose to learn out of it.
This was a very thought provoking post. I am left with a question: What is your opinion on ending a marriage where the abuse is focused on the children, as opposed to the two adults (which is what I believe you were eluding to)? For example, would you invoke the “no divorce” rule when there is a discovery of child physical, emotional, or sexual abuse?
This post is really sad — my (healthy, compassionate) children are adults now — 27, 29 and 32 — with spouses and children of their own. I divorced their father when they were babies (2,4, and 6) They would tell you how grateful they are that they didn’t grow up with their father in the household. He became a heavy drug user, and we never would have had a chance at a stable life if I hadn’t had the strength and courage to get out — with the loving support of my own siblings and mother. You are just completely wrong. I am so disappointed in you.
I knew a man who smoked 3 packs of cigarettes a day, and lived to be 95.
Does that mean I should “be so disappointed” in those who state smoking is bad you, your family the community and society at large?
Your individual case does not reflect the holocaust sweeping our families, communities, and society by divorce.
Her comments about domestic violence are dangerous and wrong. The article she links to does NOT say that domestic violence is caused equally by both partners in a relationship. It says that both men and women perpetrate abuse.
If you are in a violent relationship, make a safe exit plan and get out of there. Having been through it myself, trust me: your violent spouse WILL NOT CHANGE. The rate of recidivism by perpetrators even after counseling is staggeringly high.
Domestic violence is not about failing to compromise or have healthy conflict. It is about one partner using power and control over the other. Once a spouse experiences the trauma of domestic violence, the entire dynamic of the relationship is forever altered.
Her comments also reflect the fact that she, herself, is in this type of relationship (at least according to a previous blog post I read). It’s very difficult to accept the truth about someone who is supposed to love, honor and cherish you. Believe me, I understand 100 percent.
Penelope, I hope one day you can get out of your marriage safely and seek the therapy you need. That goes for others reading this who are in domestic violence situations. There is help available, and more importantly, there is hope to regain your life.
Fact: 50% of ALL IPV, INTIMATE PARTNER VIOLENCE is committed by WOMEN.
And guess which relationships have the most IPV?
Men-Women? NO
Men-Men? NO
Women-Women? YES.
What I am wondering is if you’re couching this post as a divorce post when really it is a post about Borderline Personality Disorder.
BPD would be a tough disorder to live with. And so would Narcissistic Personality Disorder. And they typically go hand-in-hand. And what if both parents have BPD or NPD. Who is left to make the really good boundaries? The children? How can two parents with personality disorders make good decisions about anything? And how can they suddenly realize that they need treatment?
And I am also curious if you’re reading these books because you think that you’re BPD and want to know what it means for your kids. Or if you think that your mother was BPD.
Either way, I would like to see a post about what you’ve found about that topic. Because personality disorders are much more interesting than divorce.
Your post hits me at a time when I am reading a ton about BPD/NPD as well.
I am also thinking that I was much much much much nicer and kinder and gentler to the children when their father was here. (Of course I was walking on eggshells with him)
But really, your post confused me and I felt angry about that. I have some really important decisions to make and I’ve tried the staying together and setting boundaries, but I still am sitting here without my husband.
I can see both sides of this issue and one reason why I’ve stayed. My children love their father, even if I don’t.
The comments added to the confusion I had, partly because some contradicted you but also had valid points as well. The comments you chose to respond to seemed to be unrelated to the topic. as if you set this ball in motion but really didn’t want to play the game.
So, do you really want to talk about BPD and just decided to post about divorce, because really this is about your divorce from the children’s father and has nothing to do with the farmer, per se.
Oh, hell now I’ve added to my own confusion and I need to go see if those BDP books are at the library because I certainly can’t spend any money on books at the moment.
you’ll leave when you decide living your own life is more important living for someone else’s (husband’s). It’s not noble; just something you (as was i) taught to do. Very well. You can’t create good boundaries with someone who is npd or bpd. they can’t comprehend.
People who aren’t good at having strong familial relationships for whatever reason, are likely not also going to make the best parents. We can point to divorce as the problem for kids, but I think it is really a symptom.
I don’t think it is the divorce that is bad for kids. It is the kinds of parents that most frequently get divorces that are bad for kids.
People who are selfish, unwilling to communicate, not loving, argumentative, aren’t any better with their kids. I know parents will say that their kids change them and they would never treat their kids the way they treat their spouse. Were your parents always the perfect parent to their kids regardless of how they communicated with other adult humans? I bet they weren’t, because we’re all human and we all have certain tendencies.
I posit that parents who have bad relationships with each other are often just as likely to have bad relationships with their kids. I bet if we could isolate divorce as a symptom instead of a cause we would see that it is really the parent’s poor relationship skills that are the problem, not the actual act of divorcing.
Really fantastic point. Well said.
Divorce worked out for the old man. His 1st wife initiated the divorce, but his 2nd wife never left. It’s unlikely people who initiate the divorce ever succeed in a long term marriage. Whatever their 1st decision to get married was based on is what every later decision is based on. Humans can’t overcome their nature. They either have to accept what their nature gives them or give up.
This wasn’t a post on divorce. It was a post on whether people with children should ever get a divorce.
What about divorce AFTER the children are grown? Is it ever not a stupid, selfish idea?
I have often thought that some people (often women) get a divorce because they need a project. They get their head around the idea and start thinking about how they can reinvent themselves, and then they start to build up a case against their clueless or careless spouse, citing how horrible they are (not horrible enough to not marry them in the first place though). Someone told me that her parents divorced when she was 4. I immediately started to tear up, to my embarrassment, because i thought of my own small children, how they don’t deserve to be put through that. Most kids want their parents to be together and they want to know where home is. If you have ever seen “where the wild things are” it’s a great kids-eye view of the complete upheaval divorce causes. I think in the extreme cases where people are abusive, beyond-help types and lets say they didn’t know better or were forced into marriage it would be hard to not have sympathy but for those who know what they get into and do it anyway? I would have to agree with a lot of the above. Hey–how about DON’T get married if you can’t accept that things may be shitty a lot of the time. Don’t expect your spouse to be all things. And maybe keep the door closed when you pee.
“there’s great research to show that if you picked an asshole the first time, you’ll pick the same type of asshole the second time. (Which is why divorce rates for second marriages are so much higher than first marriages.)”
That’s so true for women in their 30’s.
Your ability to speak the truth is a gift and I know this post just saved someone’s marriage.
I stayed with an abuser for thirty-six years, because I was afraid of being alone; I grew up never knowing my father and with an abusive mother. We tend to marry someone like a parent and try to fix the past.
The Verbally Abusive Relationship by Patricia Evans saved my life and millions of other women. I wrote about my life and won a scholarship. I am a Freshman at age 65. We cannot fix anyone. Most abusers do not ever change. I am also the moderator of an abused survivors’ group. Am working on my BS in social work, then my Master’s in counseling.
I don’t think there is anyone on the planet who knows more about abuse than I do. I grew up with it, researched it and help others because of my experience and research. 1 in 3 women are living in silence, fear and shame behind closed doors because of violence…..that is over 52 million women in the U.S. This is a global pandemic.
Everyone has an opinion. It doesn’t mean it is valid.
“Everyone has an opinion. It doesn’t mean it is valid.”
YOURS INCLUDED.
50% of all Domestic Violence is committed by WOMEN.
The vast majority of child abuse comes at the hand of WOMEN.
The vast majority of women who divorce do so out of unhappiness, with NO ABUSE.
As regarding opinions….I should have been clearer. My statistics are not opinions (or anyone’s opinions), they are they are cold hard facts…taken from the “Surgeon Geneal of the United States Report.” “Domestic Violence is the leading cause of injury to women–more than car accidents, muggings and rapes…combined…”Every 9 seconds in the U.S. a woman is assaulted or beaten.” I could go on, as I have written extensively on the subject of verbal and physical abuse.
Violence towards women and children…a global pandemic.
I am the moderator of an abused survivors’ group.
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/raising-happiness/201203/is-divorce-immature-and-selfish
And penelope remains silent as usual ,when she is WRONG !!!!!
Thank you for sharing that article. It’s so obvious to me that my sisters, brothers, and I suffer to this day not because my parents finally divorced, but because they stayed together for so long.
Watching my father belittle and insult my mother for years did a huge amount of harm to all of us. We, the children, were begging my mother to divorce my father at the end while she said things like “but I am a fat pig”.
It’s nearly impossible for someone with no self esteem to leave a marriage — it took a tremendous amount of courage. I think I’ll go thank her again right now!
P.S. Abuse is a CHOICE. No matter what good boundaries we have, if we live with an abuser, they choose to abuse…..50/50? No…1 in 3 women are living with abuse on the planet…Again, that is over 52 million in the U.S….not to mention the children living in abusive homes who take that to school and the result can be bullying (verbal abuse) and sometimes those children commit suicide. Abusers RARELY change. I have been working with abused women for over 10 years; I have written papers, I am a member of the American Counseling Association. Except for 3 years in the army I lived with abuse. I get it.I believe your statistics are skewed. Do you know how many women are murdered every year by an abuser? Do you know how many children are hospitalized because of living in an abusive household? Do you know that there are more women living with abuse than with rapes, muggings and cancer COMBINED??!! Do you know that over 90% of men incarcerated grew up in abusive homes? I;ve written a 27 page paper on the subject. Do you know that it is usually always a mistake to get into counseling with an abuser? Abusers are about one thing and one thing only; CONTROL; they are excruciatingly insecure and will do anything to keep their victim under their control. This is a subject I am passionate about; as a matter of fact, I just made a video on the subject. We must as a society become educated. This recursive cycle of violence will continue until we become educated. We have a world awash in violence. It took ALL of my courage to leave after 36 years of violence.
Hi Penelope,
Your pain from your divorce is obviously still very strong and very real and I sympathize with that.
But I would strongly recommend that you read one more book before closing the gate on this subject.
“Love without Hurt” by Steven Stosny PhD.
This book is about healing abusive relationships and healing from abusive relationships.
As a child the author was raised in abusive household for the first 11 years of his life and he tells of the damage it does to children.
The book includes a ‘Bootcamp” for abusers. He has had many turn their abusive behavior into compassion. But he does stress the need for divorce if abusers won’t stop for everybody in the family’s sake.
This article will obviously generate more heat than light am afraid.
The truth of this matter however is in the pain of broken homes, estranged family connections and forgettable memories that forever become part of the lives of those involved. It was never meant to be that way.
The fact that some will learn to cope and even proceed to have a measurably better quality of life after a divorce does not take away from the truth that pain will be felt, and it will result in patterns of life that can only cultivate more pain into generations of a family.
Divorce in itself (not the parties contemplating or having settled on the notion) is the most SELFISH event due to the pain, scars and impact it will have on individuals and the societies they will later belong to for years to come.
It is IMMATURE to underestimate the impact of divorce.
The most difficult part of this is when one party commits to a marriage, and all of it’s values, at a deep soul level, while the other does not. Then 7 years later, the truth come out that one of them was quite dishonest, and should not have taken the vows.
You are an ignorant asshole. Marriage is a choice, and people make mistakes,
Reading the comments is truly enlightening.
What Penelope is doing is just stating her opinion. I don’t understand why some people get so heated.
Although I am not with Penelope when it comes to this – I believe that most of the time, divorce is something courageous, I do love reading someone else comments.
I think the problem that most people have is this utter inability to view things from a different point of view. The beauty of human existence lie in the fact that all of us have different ways of interpreting something.
Take some time to checkout the most mind-blowing book you have read on Amazon. Read the critical reviews. You will realize the diversity of human opinions.
It’s good that you’re reading about BPD – I hope you recognise yourself and get the hlep you need. For your kids’ sake, if not your own. If your post reflects anything, it’s that you recognise that children are victims of their parents’ choices. Physician, heal thyself.
Next thing I know, you’ll reveal that Phyllis Schlafly is your cousin…
Seriously though, I think the problem with this fuzzy thinking in this article is that you are trying very hard to justify why you are sticking it out this time. (Although that is NOT going to last – you read it here first.) You know very well that, again, you married the wrong guy, and are desperately trying to avoid to get divorced this time around, and therefore, everybody else should tough it out too.
A lot of sensible things have been written in these comments about this already, so I am not going to waste my time, but really – is being opinionated and divisive all it takes these days to be widely read? I guess that says more about us, your readership, than about you.
I am disappointed in you.
I was in a marriage with an emotionally and verbally abusive woman. One day she hit me and I dialed 911. Now she’s paying me child support and out on the street.
We are all much happier to be rid of our stinking abuser.
You should at least quote Heather accurately. She did NOT say, “I can’t be a good parent if I’m not happy and I’ll never be happy in this marriage.” And please, if not for your sake, then for your kids’ sake, get some help.
Amazing. A truth teller in a world of lies. Please spread the word to your feminist sisters. Remember women seek divorce twice as often as men. Want to save 700,000 families PER YEAR? Crash the divorce cycle, and save our homes, communities, and country? Get women to understand your article.
Good Luck!!
This woman is an idiot. How dare she condemn anyone who has made the heartbreaking decision to get a divorce. I am in the process of getting a divorce right now. My son is 7 years old and my daughter is 3. My husband is an emotionally abusive (to me, not the kids), financially irresponsible person. Yes, I chose him. Yes, I chose to have kids with him. I put up with way too much for way too long. This is not about me wanting someone else. I am not bored, immature, selfish, or uneducated. Of course I worry about how my kids will adjust to this and how it will change the course of their lives. ( I worry about every decision I make for them!) But I believe that our kids learn by watching us. They learn how to treat others and how they should be expected to be treated. I fear that they would be far more emotionally damaged growing up in a home where they do not see both parents treating each other with respect and love. I want them to grow up in a loving, peaceful home. If I have to do it alone, so be it. I am hopeful that my soon to be ex-husband can do it alone as well.
Think ya need to swallow your pride and not worry about winning and not losing face. Remember he is responsible for the household I stay away from chicks like you that think there better than their mate. To honor your husband was that not in your vows. Not givve him grief. Nothing worse than a girl trying to be a man. That article was spot on your just kidding yourself.
Kathleen,
You are lying. “Emotionally Abusive” means, you just don’t like him any more and are “bored” (as Penelope so correctly pointed out).
You are screwing your kids and your kids will never forgive you. Good luck with that.
Hooray for the person who stated that “’emotionally abusive’ means you just don’t like him any more and are ‘bored'”. It must be so nice to know what ever single person in this situation is feeling. Tell me how one goes about obtaining knowledge of what EVERY SINGLE EMOTIONALLY ABUSED PERSON is going through. I need a bottle of that.
But I’ll grant that you are somewhat correct: When I say my ex was emotionally abusive, it’s true that I “just didn’t like him”. His fkn cruelty had much to do with that.
Emotional abusive = someone is being mean = I don’t like that shit = I’m out = that’s what works for me but if you like to stay with someone who hurts you on purpose with malicious glee then, hey, whatever floats your boat = Blanket statements are signs of lazy intellect.
This is probably the dumbest thing I have ever read – stop putting guilt on others because you didn’t want to get divorced. you got divorced, deal with it
Good article you must grow up and work out your differences. Boys don’t get pulled into an argument.
Girls honor your husband. Remember harsh words stir up anger but a soft answer turns away wrath.
A way in which divorce could be avoided is that if people actually got to know each other properly first before deciding on marriage or children.
Explore each other to find out historys, families, goals, likes, disklikes.
The signs are all there at the beginning. be sure to read them.
AMEN. My father walked out on us when I was a few weeks old, leaving me with my absolutely insane mother. HELLO, @$$hole, if she’s bad enough for you to leave one morning and never come back, then you’re an absolute bastard for leaving your newborn kid with her.
If you’re not in it for the long haul, don’t get married. Just don’t. If you’re not willing to experience personal discomfort in order to raise your kids well, don’t have kids. Period. End of story.
Why are all of these points kid-related? Many of us, like myself, divorce without children. Well … unless you’re counting my ex as a child.
We divorced yesterday and I’m done with the roller coaster. I chased him in desperation for a year after he said he wanted to end it … I stood by and hoped he’d stop an affair, instead he fell in love with her. Then he left me. Then we divorced. One day later he regrets it all.
The sad thing is, I don’t have any children and I probably lost that window thanks to him.
What can you do. Face forward and keep moving.
One of my thoughts too.
My wife’s first husband was emotionally abusive, and she left without children and with limited assets.
It’s not always so complicated, sometimes we get married for the wrong reasons and better off without the spouses we choose for bad reasons.
Penelope, this article is the clearest summary of the state of our divorce-poisoned society I’ve ever read.
As the child of divorced parents, I can chart with perfect clarity the damage (massive) it does. Bascically I lost 10 years and a college degree… and even then, I had to work like a demon, even to salvage what I did.
Both my parents were smart, successful, and supportive, until they divorced. Then they simply lose interest. I was thrown into the street to scrape out a living with zero support. While my non-divorced peers zoomed ahead with big degrees and successful careers, I was working in a factory to pay the bills.
That is the legacy of selfish parents.
And worst of all, the thing that literally drives me to rage, is that to this day, both parents completely deny everything. They act as if nothing happened, as if my plummeting socioeconomic status, which they triggered, was somehow my fault, or not real. Somehow, they believe that, at age 15 I was supposed to land on my feet and do it all myself. I could make my own money, pay for my own college bills, provide all the encouragement and career guidance…myself. They were off the hook. That’s what their divorce meant.
Both parents are now rich, they happily trot around the globe on eco-tours, while I and their grandchildren literally fight every day to avoid losing our home.
I know that people reading this will find all kinds of ways to deny it. They will call my parents narcissists, damaged, or whatever. They’ll deny it by calling me “bitter” or “a whiner”.
But the reality is, my story is not unusual, in fact, it is the norm. Most divorced families end up exactly like mine. Most kids are devastated. Every study has shown this.
My parents evaded this by simply lying. Now, 30 years later, those lies are so automatic that they literally can’t remember anything else. When I read the other comments on various blogs, in which newly-divorced parents says “Oh no, my kids are doing great” I always think to my self “oh, you are lying.”
Parents who divorce their kids are liars. That’s the essence and the necessity of divorce.
But ultimately, the kids know it’s a lie. They are never fooled, because unlike their parents, they must live the consequences of the divorce.
Some day, I hope there is a social movement to hold these selfish parents accountable for their abuse of their children. I will join that movement with pleasure.
Oh, and Penelope,
It’s funny to see so many commenters repeating (AGAIN!!) the Two Most Common Delusional Things:
“I can’t be a good parent if I’m not happy and I’ll never be happy in this marriage.”
and
“The kids are doing so well. Kids are really resilient.”
There are now tens of millions of people who have screwed their kids, and are wallowing in the guilt deep in their hearts, and keep repeating these delusional phrases, like a mantra to stave off the horror of what they’ve done to their own children.
Those children might forgive…if the parents would stop lying about it. But otherwise, that guilt will never abate. That guilt will be the last thing they remember, when they are on their deathbed.
Penelope divorced her first husband, and now her second husband is beating her.
That right there is the best reason not to get divorced.
And by the way, the second husband is much, much more likely to beat/sexually abuse the children too. And the real father of the children will have no legal means to prevent this.
The rise in child abuse in the US is primarily caused by the rise in divorce. This is something the pro-divorce crowd somehow manage to gloss over.
If anyone is interested in my paper, Society’s Hidden Pandemic, Verbal Abuse, Precursor to Physical Violence and a Form of Biochemical Assault….
Over 52 million women in the U.S., are living in silence, fear and shame because of abuse and verbal abuse is the precursor to physical violence….
Our whole world is awash in violence, and it all begins at home. Without education, the recursive cycle will continue.
I got out of a verbally and physically violent “marriage” after 31 years; it took finding the book (which I believe should be required reading for every one on the planet: The Verbally Abusive Relationship by Patricia Evans
One Ph.D. said about it: “It is the cornerstone of civilization.”
I am the moderator of an abused survivors’ group……..
Why?
Verbal abuse is already as up defined as possible, or are you now making it a slippery slope?
Careful now, look into what happened in France when they tried that….guess who was being hauled off to jail….the perpetrators of verbal abuse were, the masters of psychological torture were, the controlling and manipulative verbal abusers were….and they were mostly women!
But, but , but, whaaaaa, thats not what we meant whaaaaa.
Thems the facts mam.
Losing an argument, where you nagged and bitched for days and he blows up and insults you to tears wont cut it anymore for verbal abuse. sorry
Divorce is such a personal thing to make such general judgements about. It takes 2 to create and keep a marriage union healthy. You are correct in saying that divorce is caused by immaturity and selfishness, but unless BOTH parties in the union are willing to work it through, there isn’t much chance for success or existence.
Couples can even go through the motions of counseling and such and still sabotage the healing process, while appearing to put up a facade of sincere effort.
Yes, couples can heal from abuse, addictions, and infidelities, but it takes a LOT of work and can be very discouraging. Many do quit. It is a tragedy when they do.
I am grateful for my first marriage and divorce to and alcoholic sociopath. I am more grateful for my healthy marriage to a real and mature man. We are both flawed, but the difference is, we are patient with the efforts we each make to support one another.
Peace and happiness was impossible in my first marriage. I even went to marriage counseling alone, believing I could fix it by myself, since he refused to go or do anything to save it. The physical, emotional, and verbal abuse was a horrible example for my teenagers. I didn’t want my son to think it was OK to treat his spouse this way and I didn’t want my daughter to think that this was just what women had to put up with.
At his request, I moved in with my parents and suggested that he decide what he wanted in regards to our future. He didn’t lift a finger for a year. I got the papers together, asked him to sign them, paid the court fee and it was done.
My divorce was for the health and well being of my children, not selfishness. I have no regrets here.
I wish you the best in your healing process. May you say more supportive words to one another than criticisms. (At least by 5:1.) Love and cherish each other. It sounds sappy, but it is the consistent formula for success. Good luck.
Yep, that physical emotional and verbal abuse is bad news
The only thing I disagree with here is that you value marriage with children more than marriage without children. I get the point initially, but if we treat any marriage that way then we treat all marriages that way and it’s disrespectful and it hurts two humans who go on hurting others etc. A husband and wife make up a family all their own and join two extended families together. Kids don’t make a family, a family.
Significantly, it is not necessarily the divorce event itself that can negatively impact the children, but rather the way that parents relate to each other and their children during this often tumultuous period. This blog also omits the compelling findings that show that children of parents in emotionally or physically abusive relationships are far more likely to become either victims of domestic violence or abusers themselves. Essentially, therefore, children will benefit when parents are both emotionally and physically attentive to their children’s needs whether they remain married or not.
i am a child of a “divorce is selfish” parents myself. My parents were completely incompatible, but never got divorced coz of their only child, an unspoken assumption which everybdy knew. But how I wish they had…and found more suitable partners for themselves to make them happy. My entire childhood was spent in a tense sitution..where the very unhappy adults didnt talk to eachother and I, the child somehow became their messenger, their chess piece, their confidante, their cheerleader, and their mediator. It taught me all wrong lessons about relationships which im still paying for as an adult. I know nothing about happy relationship with boundaries. I would’ve much prefered they got divorced, found compatible partners and been happy and set me a better example. So if you are staying in an unhappy marriage pls do it for your sake..not for the sake of the kids…coz they might not want it either.
Glad to see someone show this side of the story too.
Penelope’s analysis hurts because I feel called out; I blamed my ex-wife for sabotaging my career because she wouldn’t move where my career would take us. I felt shortchanged on the loving intimacy I craved and instead of fighting for what I needed and dealing with the conflict, I had affairs with people who supposedly understood me better. In effect I ran away from dealing with her. I contemplated suicide just to stop the pain. And I contemplated just getting in my car and driving into the sunset. And now the guilt is constant. I hate that something I felt I had to do so impacted my three children; One now hates me and blames me for everything, and the other two seem to struggle with the two base camps lifestyle. I feel terribly guilty all the time. I worry about the impact on my children regarding my decision to have yet another affair that, when discovered, was the final launching point for the end of our marriage. And it’s only gotten worse as she now uses the children as weapons against me for blowing up her comfortable world despite our lack of emotional connectivity. At the time I felt righteous and justified (not in the affair) in ending the marriage so I could survive. I used the argument that the children would be better off but I have my doubts. What seemed so clear to me that I would cease to exist and would hate my life so much if I stayed in the marriage just for the kids is now clouded by all the conflict between she and I in a three-year post-divorced life.
I cannot undo what has been done. The truth is that I am in a much better place inside my head now and with a much better partner than I had in my marriage. Yet the impact on the children is noticeable and sad. I regret their pain and sadness. Every time I congratulate myself for being authentic and brave, I am reminded of the shit they are going through in their childhoods. I have no doubt that I have tainted their childhoods forever and affected their ability to navigate life as they move forward. I alone am not to blame yet as I develop a more enlightened sense of awareness–that I believe my ex does not possess–I feel responsible for their hardship. I fear I will carry it with me forever regardless of how well my life and theirs turn out.