5 Myths about going to law school
By Stephen Seckler, Managing Director, Boston Office, BCG Attorney Search and author of the blog Counsel to Counsel.
The cost of a legal education is now reaching stratospheric proportions. Anyone contemplating this enormous investment of time and money should think long and hard before applying.
Here are five common myths about what law school will do for you:
Myth 1: I’ll be able to use the law degree in whatever career I decide to choose.
Go to law school if you want to be a lawyer. But don’t go if you believe it will “open doors” for you. It won’t. By the end of law school you may still have no idea what you “want” from your career; only now you are likely to limited by huge law school debt.
Myth 2: I’ll get a job when I graduate law school.
If you graduate near the top of your class from a top school, then your job prospects are likely to be strong. But if you have an average performance from a second-tier school, finding your first job may be a big challenge.
Myth 3: I’ll get to be in court and try cases.
Most lawyers never see the inside of a courtroom. About 95% of all civil law suits that are filed are settled before trial. Much of the work of a “litigator” involves reviewing documents, preparing court filings and negotiating with the lawyer from the other side of the case.
Myth 4: I’ll be able to advocate for the little guy.
If you are independently wealthy, you can advocate for the poor, fight for environmental justice, defend civil rights, etc. But if you are like the typical law school graduate today, you will finish with substantial debt. Public interest jobs are too low paying to accommodate a heavy debt burden. Some law schools have a debt-forgiveness program for people going into public interest jobs, but the salaries are so low that they are often hard to manage even in light of debt forgiveness.
Myth 5: I’ll have intellectually challenging work.
Early in your career, you will probably spend a lot of time reviewing documents all day rather than tackling great intellectual issues. Even litigators – many of whom go into law to argue exciting, constitutional issues — will spend most of their time researching mundane procedural issues at the beginning of their career.
If you’re thinking of going to law school, make sure you have a clear plan for how you will make that degree useful (and essential) when you graduate. Find some practicing lawyers and spend time with them to find out what they really do for a living.
If you are already in law school and reading this, don’t panic. Rather, start doing some of the harder thinking that you put off and figure out how you want to make the best use of your degree when you do graduate. The work you do now will surely pay off in the long run.
I graduated in 2008 with a degree in mechanical engineering (Summa Cum). I will easily clear 80K this yr (2010). However, I am strongly considering going back to school so that I can practice IP/Patent law. Does anyone have a good reason why I shouldn’t?
This article is right on the mark.
I’ll add one thing, I’ve been a litigator for 20 years and have been to court a pile of times. Perhaps that’s the venue I live in, but I do see a lot of court time.
It’s awful. A person who wants court time has to be an idiot. It’s stressful beyond belief, and nothing about it is satisfying.
I believed that “you can do a lot of things with a law degree” bunk going into law school. Well, with a law degree you can do exactly one thing, practice law. That’s it. And once you are a lawyer, it’s very difficult to get out. People don’t like lawyers, and they don’t trust anyone who wants to get out of what they believe, from the outside, is an easy job with huge pay.
The only reason to go to law school is because you want to be a lawyer. And being a lawyer isn’t all that lucrative, the hours are very long, the clients are very needy, and the work extremely stressful.
I’ve been an insurance defense lawyer for 20 or so years; not because I wanted to, but because that’s where I started out, and that’s where I got pigeonholed. I graduated from an okay law school with okay grades, and I got the first (and only) job offered, so that’s where I am.
I’m sure there are plenty of folks who are happy to be lawyers, but I’ve met precious few of them. I work with lawyers, my friends from school are lawyers, and just about all of them would NOT do it over again if they had the chance. Even my friends who are top attorneys getting big bucks at big firms.
Most lawyers I know wish they were doing something else, and many attempt it. Few succeed.
Sorry to be a downer here but this is reality for myself and most of the laywers I know. Let’s face it there’s a reason for the myth that “with a law degree you can do anything”…Its because deep down most folks would rather “do anything” than be a lawyer.
Wow, Adam’s views are so close to my own, and his experience is so identical, that I actually had to read it a couple of times to make sure I wasn’t reading my own post.
The law is a lousy way to make a living. I would never repeat it.
This is invaluable cautionary advice for anyone considering law school. I was a lawyer for 6 years and I cannot describe how deeply I regretted my choice of profession. I took out a massive amount of debt to finance my education at a top ten law school. I entered law school under many of the same illusions Seckler mentions but soon discovered how brutal and unfulfilling the profession really is. Although landing a law firm job was easy (at least it was back then), I spent every moment of my career wishing I could do something else and counting down the years until my debt was manageable enough to leave. In the end, I essentially broke even and there’s no doubt I would have been better off financially (and probably would have been happier in the process) if I had spent those 6 years working in a gas station. The real life of a lawyer is a far cry from the glamour portrayed on TV.
Careared, so what did you when you got out of law?
i’ll be a first generation lawyer from a largely blue collar irish/italian family and i’m grateful for the opportunity to study law every single day.
i love law school, i love my work, (3L, T4, state college, public interest law) and i wouldn’t trade it for anything. people are always so worried about money and prestige that they lose sight of what the practice of law was all about in the first place. just because you go to a top ten school right out of college doesn’t mean you’ll have a) a resume; b) life experience; or c) any other marketable skills to speak of once you get your J.D. people who are passionate about the profession will be successful. monetarily? who knows. if you measure success by money, then perhaps not.
i suggest unhappy lawyers and law students take some time to study the life and works of abraham lincoln. if that doesn’t inspire you? leave the profession to those who truly care.
as a side note, incorporating yoga into my legal practice has been an invaluable tool. i would recommend it to anyone regardless of their current physical abilities.
think positively, care about your neighbors, and god will smile upon you.
namaste,
ashley
p.s. equaljusticeworks.org. check it out. the times, they are a’changin’.
Wow, this was a truely inspiring and honest take on law. I am so glad to have stumbled upon this message out of the many that seem to crush the profession altogether. I think we should seriously consider this perspective and take into consideration the real reason why we go into a profession. I feel like prestige and money all come about accidently, when you are caught up in being passionate about what you do and are busy trying to achieve those authentic goals. Thank you ashley, I will pass this message on.
to all others, a positive or negative perspective shouldn’t mean the explanation of law in a nutshell. it is just one perspective, so take it in its entirety.
-sam
Of course, you may also want to weigh that this honest and inspiring look at the law came from a law student, not a lawyer.
When the students are enthused with the profession, and the practitioners are not, that’s probably telling you something in and of itself.
Wow. It’s truly uninspiring to see that people smart enough to attend law school will continue to ignore information freely offered, no matter how enormous the supply, no matter how diverse a field of people with industry experience agree.
Granted some on this blog have offered a different view, but how beligerantly was it delivered – would you trust them as a cheerleader?
It’s just a legitmate discussion of percentages – would George Clooney bemoan the choice of actor as a profession? Is it because the rest of the actors are too lazy to “act” harder?
Many people choose based incorrectly on “that won’t be me.” If there are 100 spots, and 10,000 graduates, well the math is obvious. If the premise on this blog is wrong, please offer some facts. I would like to go to law school. You know how many PhDs didn’t find out until too late that there are no jobs in academia waiting for them? So they just should have been smarter than the departments that “sold” them on getting that PhD? As kids? Is law in this same state? If you disagree, again, I would like to join you, please offer some facts, besides “it’s working for me so far, so you must be an idiot or lazy.” That’s a whole lot of smart people you’re calling lazy idiots.
Ashley, with all due respect, you are a law student. I loved law school. And I’m also a first generation lawyer from an Irish American family. If practicing law was anything even remotely like studying law I’d love it. It isn’t.
Problem is, practicing law has only a little to do with studying it.
And, to add, I’m in the majority of lawyers who’d love to leave the law to the 25% or so “who really care”. Heck, I’d be happy to just leave the law, and I don’t care if its left to people who care or not. Problem is that a persons options aren’t unlimited, and a law degree qualifies you to do just one thing, be a lawyer. Finding a job outside of the law is very difficult for anyone who has a few years under their belt. People hate lawyers, and it isn’t as if they’re going to welcome one who wants out with open arms. Far from it.
i actually work for the homicide division of a very large public defender’s office three times a week and will have my “711” license very shortly. (this will allow me to practice in my state while still in law school.)
i say this humbly and with respect, but i totally disagree with you. i know exactly what my practice will be like.
however, this is my story. i know my story is a lot different and more specialized than most others. i left a very successful career in opera/classical piano to study criminal law and subsequently came to law school with a crystal clear idea of what i wanted to get out of it.
what i’m saying? is what many of the other people are saying on this board. DON’T go to law school to make money. don’t go to law school to get laid. don’t go because your parents wanted you to, because you didn’t know what else to do after college, or because you think it will open magical doors for you.
go because you have a true calling for it; a passion, so to speak. wait a few years after undergrad to decide whether it’s truly the right decision for you. experience life.
i feel like many people refrain from posting positive messages on these boards because they fear “ad hominem” attacks from embittered people who seem to thrive on their own unhappiness. it’s a pure example of the phrase “misery loves company.”
but to all of the people out there like me? i just want to say don’t listen to all of the people who continually put you and the profession down. if your heart is in it, TRULY in it, then nothing can stop you.
“Discourage litigation. Persuade your neighbors to compromise whenever you can. As a peacemaker the lawyer has superior opportunity of being a good man. There will still be business enough.”
Again, with all due respect, you do not know what your practice area will be like, assuming you even get into it. One thing you presently have no idea of is what it is like to be the lawyer carrying the burden of other people’s hopes, dreams, fears, and freedom. You may think you do, but you do not.
Once you do, at least by my observation, a lot changes. Start taking calls on weekends and at night from desperate people who are pinning all their hopes on you, and you start carrying that burden, and the fun of it all goes out the window pretty quickly. Trial work is crushing in terms of that burden and fairly soon any sense of glamor or nobility in the process is gone. Start loosing a few you think you should have won and you can add guilt to the mix.
You may be correct, of course, that those who love the practice do not post on these boards. But, as a two decade long practitioner, there’s plenty who do not meet that description.
I have to support Yeoman – it seems strange to me that the people here who “know so much,” seem completely unaware how much this blog is a reflection of the sense that is out there offline. I could agree with those pointing out that cranks rally together around subjects on the internet, except I came to internet blogs to find a positive rebuttal to what I was finding out from lawyers offline, when I was thinking about law school. I found only validation online of what I was being told; I can’t imagine that the pollyannas have not encountered this as I found it so ubiquitous I wondered why the law schools were still teaming with applicants.
On first hand validation, I’d note that an outside observation of the profession shows pretty rapidly that there’s a major problem with the legal profession as an occupation. Whole books have been written on the topic. Career dissatisfaction rates, published by the ABA, show that even the legal professions’ cheer leading bodies have to admit that the internal discontent is enormous.
First hand, I generally find that lawyers are very quick to disdain their profession amongst themselves, but of course are less willing to admit it to outsiders, as that would impair their ability to earn a living. Of the lawyers I practice with day to day, at least 60% of them, within the firm, openly regret entering the field or hope that their children do not.
This is pretty fair advice. Unless your parents or parents friends have a sweet law firm, you will be treated like an enlisted soldier and paid like one.
If your parents are not successful lawyers, visit some firms, courts, police stations, and corporations and see what its about first.
Next, choose a school wisely. If you want to compete in an elite market, an elite school will be required.
Some of the wealthiest lawyers in the country have stated they make all their money in real estate not law. And we all know where the real estate market is.
I’m a third year law student in Puerto Rico, I just read this article and I’m freaking out because lately I’ve been feeling a little frustrated with my career choice. In Puerto Rico the practice of law is a bit different than in the states, law firms are small or mid sized and most lawyers work independently. Like in the states connections are very important, I have a couple but I don’t really like the idea of calling people out of the blue and asking for a job. I’m thinking of finishing an M.B.A in Finance or accounting to make my resume more appealing but I don’t know how much that would really help. If someone could give me some honest advice I would really appreciate it.
(Please excuse any grammatical mistake English is my second language).
I have some good news for you amigo. On the plus side, being in Puerto Rico you are not competing with most of the rest of the US law school population. So the PR legal market is much more insolated and less cutthroat than in the rest of the nation. Also, because most firms are small to medium size (and because of the more laid-back culture of the island) you might find yourself working fewer intense hours than say in New York City, DC, Chicago, etc.
Having a real degree – which finance and accounting are (PoliSci, Gay & Lesbian Studies, Art History are NOT) can be an enormous boost. Many of the people who I know that have gotten quality legal jobs, often at higher salaries at places other than law firms, had economics, accounting, and finance backgrounds. I do not know what your financial situation is like however. Are you in debt? The money you have or will be spending is really critical in making the final decision.
Well, despite what I’ve written here – if the law is what you really want to do then don’t let anyone talk you out of it. And it is still a lot better than other roads you might have taken. You might re-read what’s here and the links to find your answer. I know biz school is similar to law in that you want to go to a top school to get the brand recognition, on-campus recruiting, alumni network, etc. But be careful about spending the money and postponing your career otherwise. You need to match your school choice to where you want to be, you want to stay local? Maybe your local school is the best place to get networked. You want to be Gordon Gekko, go where you need to go for that. As expensive as all schools are these days, you may as well go to the best one you can possibly get in to.
A two-fisted law/finance gentleman might like investment banking, and there's money in that. I know for instance even schools not normally thought of for investment banking, like in USC or UCLA, are on the recruitment schedule for visiting investment banks. Maybe boutique investment bank operations, and things are always subject to change, especially now-a-days, but you get the idea, check it out.
Be honest, if money is the point, then go where the money is, investment banking or management consulting or finance dept of big corporation in a big city, the same places big law operates. Or if you know where you want to go geographically then just stick the schools and networks that matter in that region and don't worry about the big competitive schools and save some money. I just read an article about a guy who when to school in Michigan, I think, came out to Portland, Oregon for Lewis & Clark law school, and stayed in Portland to do investment banking and was hugely successful. Portland is not a place I would have guessed that that was possible, and the schools he went to are not exactly the schools you would associate with that story.
And I think that is really the point of this blog. It's not that you couldn't do it, and do it anywhere, but make sure you know what you are getting into, because what people used to like about the law, that it makes them wealthy and respectable, is making about the same amount of people wealthy and respectable as it ever did, but the numbers coming out of law school are far far more than that, so you have to wonder what they're all doing and what are odds of ending up like them, or will you still be happy in the law.
Like PhDs or even video game programmers – there's a limit to what the market can bear, and when you are young and figuring out who you are and where you're going, people help you along the way, but now you've got far more PhDs with no hope of a teaching position afterwards, and maybe they're 30 with no real experience – harsh, who was guiding them along the way? How did they end up there? Gaming is tough to get into because it is so popular, and so is the law, and you have to really work at getting straight information about the rate a profession is growing, how many slots there will be versus number of candidates. Don't trust the anecdotal stuff. Some of the comments on this blog try to point to stats and facts. For PhDs, their professors may not know the state of their discipline or the economy, or they may be under pressure to keep up interest in their department, keeping their funding, etc. Law schools, all schools have that element. Some well ranked schools can have terrible placement offices, something you might want to know before you go there.
People here, I think, are just trying to level the outlook on the law, from the ideal that keeps drawing record numbers of smart people into law school. Just need an accurate view of a profession or industry, and then, good or bad, if you still want to do it, you're good. Look up the economist Dambisa Moyo, she wrote Dead Aid, it's about humanitarian aid to Africa – a BA in chemistry, then MBA in finance from American University (not the highest ranked school, no offense to anyone), but then an MPA from Harvard Gov school in Finance/International Development, and then a PhD from Oxford in Economics. She obviously took some time to figure it out, maybe she didn't know right away or was just following where it took her. That's part of the fun right? The adventure.
Really, whether it is law or business or whatever, you are going to have to pick the crowd you want to run with, and network (in an authentic kind of way). Where do you find those people? Intellectuals, do-gooders, conservatives or liberals, I mean whatever you think you want to be, and line yourself up in that direction of where you find that/them, and then take whatever things come up as you move in that direction.
So they say – the hardest thing for anyone, for everyone, is knowing what you want. Those who know are lucky. Those who know when they're young are the luckiest folks on the planet. But it's not just luck right? They knew, and moved in that direction.
I’m currently a 2L at a tier 2 and I have few moments where I’m not stressed. I did poorly (2.61) my 1L year, can’t find a summer internship, and question my decision to go to law school almost daily. Problem? I have an undergrad degree in Political Science and absolutely no idea what I would do if I dropped out. It is killing me right now. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Good news is I’m only (sigh) $20k in debt because the tuition here is relatively low.
This is the big problem – a lot of people say law school is a scam, not worth it, etc. Yet the fact is, once most people chose PoliSci, English, LGBT Studies, Art, etc. as a major, they basically forced themselves into a position where law school became the only realistic option if they wanted to be anything in life but a barrista at Starbucks.
First, I would talk with your career advisor at law school – even though they might convince you to stay, be firm and ask what are the consequences of dropping out. Also, are you on any law journal? If you get really good grades and get published, you can push your GPA back into 3’s territory.
Second, what do you want to do? If you really truly want to be a lawyer, then that is your calling and you should probably stick with it. If not, what were you thinking when you became a PoliSci major? This is a serious question because it would help you out and it would help out the commentators in thinking about how to help/advise you. Do you have any campaign experience? Connections? College-era internships? If so, you could try and work as a legislative assistant or staff assistant at a congressional office.
Third, have you ever considered military service? I sometimes find it amazing that tens if not hundreds of thousands of young people would rather sink themselves into major amounts of law school debt, after making a horrible decision for an undergrad major, rather than serve their country for a couple of years and gain some real skills.
Well, you’ve succeeded in making me even more depressed. I was thinking when I majored in Political Science that Law School was the thing for me. I guess I wasn’t thinking hard enough.
I have no campaign experience, no connections, and no internships in college. I’m screwed.
I never seriously considered military service. Not sure how that would work for me.
Stressed – it really is not my intention to depress you. I am just being honest and trying to think what your options are. Fact is, being depressed at this point won’t do you any good, and it was brash decisions (being a PoliSci major, going to law school, etc.) that has put you into this position in the first place, so don’t make any more brash decisions! Think very, very, very carefully. I don’t mean to make you feel bad, I’m genuinely trying to help.
Stressed, a couple of things.
1. Did you go into Poly Sci as you felt called to the law, or did you feel you should go into Poly Sci as you wanted to be a lawyer.
I have a degree in one of the sciences, and started pondering the law as an undergrad, not knowing what it would be like. But, having said that, maybe you’d be one of those folks who really like the law. May not, of course. I only note that as we can’t assume you’d be miserable yet, even if many of us are. And we don’t really know why you looked at the law in the first place.
2. FWIW, in my view, degrees like Poly Sci are a bad idea for many people who are headed into the law, as they don’t have a lot of application, as far as I know, into anything else. A word to those pondering their college degrees. In retrospect, I’d be in favor of getting a “real” undergrad degree so you can fall back on it. I still sort of kind of hope to fall back on mine, maybe, if I get the chance. But that might not help you yet here.
3. What about a teaching degree? There’s all sorts of complaining from the teachers camp about how hard that is, but an uncle of mine who was a lawyer, and who had been a teacher, went right back to being a college prof and notes that it’s darned near the most perfect job ever. Whining aside, in terms of stability, pay, and time off, it’s not bad, and Poly Sci might slide into that.
4. Why not start over. Right now, it seems to you that you’ve been in school forever, but you haven’t. I’ve stuck with the law for 20 years under that mistaken assumption. If you bail now, you can still major in something you might like better, if the law isn’t really your thing.
On my first item, I should note that what I meant was did you go into Poly Sci for its own sake, or as a “pre law” course of study.
If you entered it for its own sake, perhaps it has some other application, although I’d think it limited (but I don’t know). Education seems a possibility, or perhaps working in politics. You’re still young, and you have time to adjust.
If you entered it as pre law, what I noted above still applies. I’d merely note that there’s no point, in my view, in taking “pre law” anything. Take something more useful, or at least interesting, in case the law doesn’t pan out. That’d be my advice for others.
As for you, we don’t know you, so you might like law. Or you might not. But you can still bail out if you care too. Where you are right now it doesn’t seem possible, but it is. Whether that’s where you want to go, or should go, of course, we can’t tell you, as we really don’t know you.
Ack, I hate that we’re taking over this blog, but people coming here for advice need to know: DON’T be depressed – it is your chance to know something before you waste anymore time, the point is to be happy. This lament isn’t just about the law; it is just the most emphatic example of a modern issue that people are trying to solve for themselves by going to law school, and other people are trying to catch you while you can still make a lot of other choices because they were once where you were at and can give you the kind of information that is helpful.
Medicine is better protected, but can be just as distasteful if not worse and is also feeling the effects. Professors' careers are dependent on where they went to school, if you went to U of Idaho law school, likely you'll never teach at higher tier school, whether law school or even teaching undergrad, there's just that few spots, it's competitive, and more PhDs being produced than there are positions. Not impossible, the film director Michael Hoffman went to Boise State U and got a Fulbright scholarship, went to oxford, now he's a filmmaker – –
– but there are only so many spots in any given field, and many more bright, college educated people being produced these days – even in the 60’s something like only 18% of the population were college grads and a liberal arts education was still considered an education. Not that many generations ago things would be the same for a hundred or hundreds of years, now times change with each generation and what was once true suddenly isn't, and even without all that, the fact that there seems to always be more law students than lawyers – the mere fact of everyone running in that direction is going to change it.
BUT, for instance, I recently discovered how emerging a field called “informatics” is – that works for me, it is where a particular subject and people and information technology intersect – hard to explain briefly but the point is, it is a bridge between something I’ve been doing, Inf Tech, and something I’d like to be doing. It could be bioinformatics or there is informatics for the arts, it is the future, it is practical, and connected to what you are interested it. There are such bridges, whether it is a dual degree, or simply just applying your degree in an industry you like – nonprofit, entertainment, management consulting, investment banking. You just need to know and love what you are doing.
Point is, take the time to figure it out now and you’ll have your life. It is harder later. It's ok to meander; you just don't want to have to go backwards. Do it now so you're not doing it later. Imagine what you think is the best version of a human being, and yourself, and that can be a superficial thing if it is honest, what makes you feel most right, doesn’t half to fit neatly into a career definition, just figure it out, hold onto it, and move in that direction. Despite law school being for producing lawyers and not for anything else – you just have to know that that isn't a given, but can be true, and combined with something else, think what a stand out you'll be with a law degree. Or real estate lawyers get rich in real estate, not their law practice, or movie producers that come from entertainment law, I know it was just a movie, but Jerry Maguire was a sports agent with a law degree in that field.
Go ahead and let yourself be mad or depressed or whatever, have it, own it, get it out of your system and maybe get your life back and try and try to plot your course from where you are.
Look at all the people talking about how great the law is on this blog, and probably what they all have in common is a strength in, or knowledge or, or belief in networking. But that doesn't have to be a bad word. Simply make a lot of friends doing the activities that you like, and in the fields you are interested in, and as you move in that direction and make friends – yeah that is a better way to have a life and success, than trying to look good on paper.
Unfortunately, just like anything else competitive, the opportunities go to the more gifted, so people who are gifted in that way don't realize that it is a skill like anything else, and not everyone is so skilled, so it is frustrating for them, they think it is easy and everyone should just do this easy thing like they did. For others it is as natural is trying to be a salesman when you are not. But if you make friends like you, join groups that people like you join, etc., etc., then you are doing it, and it isn't phony or difficult, it's fun, it's life.
I am glad to see that people are still posting on this page after 3 years. It is probably because this issue is a very serious one, I am a 1L at a T4 school and about every 2 weeks or so I go through a period of profound doubt as to why I chose to go to Law school. Like many people here I went to Law school because I didn’t know what else to do. I come from a rather high achieving family and got used to having a father who made 200k+ a year (not a lawyer, he’s a veternarian). When I was in High School I did a bunch of drugs, got expelled from school, in college I was arrested twice for smoking pot. I think I wanted to prove to everyone that I really did have what it takes to succeed and to prove that I was not a loser. Also I did not want to go down the economic ladder. I was a psych/history major and didn’t think it was worth it to pursue either as a profession. As I am now a few months into Lawschool I can say that I do not have a passion for law like I did for history or psych. I thought I could defend criminals from the system and still make money. Any altruistic notions of defending and helping people have been shattered when I realized that defense lawyers are just enabling our flawed criminal system to stay in place. I am beginning to realize that for most of society’s ills lawyers are the problem, not the solution, and by becoming one I could actually be becoming what I sought to end.
I am disgusted by big law culture and it is truly obscene how much law professors make when compared to “real” academics, especially while so many law graduates can’t even find jobs. This year more people have enrolled in law school than ever before, which means when I graduate I will be competing with more law graduates than ever before. I can’t help but do math problems in my head, if I drop out now, I’m only 7,500 in debt, if I wait til spring its 15,000 in debt, next year….(I have a scholarship that pays for half my tuition if I stay in top half)
I should have known something was up when I heard so many lawyers saying not to enter law. Now I feel like if I drop out then I am letting down myself and my family, who I have already let down so many times before. The worst part is that I really have no idea what else I would be doing if I wasn’t in law. It makes me wonder if this whole thing was a fear based decision. Instead of chasing my dreams I’m running from my nightmares. I don’t know what to do and the stress of law school makes it worse. I just sooth myself with a little booze and pot at the end of the day, but I don’t want this to be my life. I know that I can always change my plans after law school, but do I really want to waste 3 years of time and money on something I might never use? It sucks, I wish I wasn’t in this position, but I’m stuck. I guess I will just soldier on for now, but its hard when there’s a side of me that truly believes I am just wasting my life in glorified servitude.
mmmph. Despite what I’ve said on here, I think you can still be encouraged. I’m mostly railing on the dishonesty; the wrong people should be discouraged, and the right people encouraged – by the truth. It’s too big a decision and become too big of a problem.
Like I said, I read a newspaper article of a guy that came here to Portland from U Michigan and went to Lewis & Clark Law (not the highest ranking school), stayed here and got into Investment Banking and did very well. A story i would not have guessed could actually happen, investment banking in Portland? coming from law school? from Lewis and Clark?
Dambisa Moyo, she wrote Dead Aid, a BS in Chemistry, and MBA in Finance from American U in DC (ok but not so high ranking), then a MPA from Harvard Gov, and then a PhD from Oxford in Econ. She took her time and meandered a bit.
Really, anymore, just like you can’t graduate from high school get a manufacturing job and raise a family – no matter what you decide to do, the new normal is just building on like-minded people and groups. Even if you volunteer only a couple of hours a week somewhere. doesn’t have to be a do-gooder thing. volunteer at a management consultancy, a radio station, a college art department, I don’t know, whatever is in the direction you want to go. You just start heading in the direction of people and groups that you like or are like you.
So despite this truism: “The foolish man seeks happiness in the distance, the wise grows it under his feet.” –J. Robert Oppenheimer. Whether or not you go to law school may be beside the point. If you can see that it will help you as you network with people and groups, then you’re golden. I would only drop out if it will really hinder what you like. Do you like sports, how about a sports agent, law degree helps. If you are sure it hinders you or in no way will help you, then you have to drop it. Look at Lt Gov Gavin Newsom’s wife. MBA from Standford and she becomes an actress? and now runs her own production company. I’d say spend the other 7,500 and do some soul searching, networking. Leverage that 1L into some kind of summer work that you don’t want to leave to go back to law school. There are a ton of people who are more successful than most with just a BA/BS.
Hey BigMoe, Care to leave your real name, state of practice (or intended practice), and bar number if you’ve got one and aren’t a student? I’ll gladly send out resumes for you, along with a copy of your post on here sent to the hr department. Pst, we know sh*theads like you are out there. God knows I’ve run into them several times. But the general rule is, you don’t say crap like that. If you’re really as hot headed as your post, you’d better watch what you let slip or it will catch up with you sometime. Oh, and fyi, my spelling sucks. That’s what spell check is for. But do I proofread? Yeah. I can easily handle the big picture AND the details. Seen plenty of male lawyers who can’t, however. Especially when I clerked. Had one guy who thought the most effective way to respond to a brief was paragraph by paragraph. I couldn’t fathom what he was trying to say. The best lawyer I saw was a female lawyer who beat out a plaintiff (a male attorney representing himself). She knew he was going for blood, so she had everything all laid out in binders–very organized, very well researched. I wrote a 30 page decision which pretty much let the guy know he had violated the rules of ethics so bad if he could forget about winning his case and best count his lucky stars he wasn’t disbarred. I know. You just wanted to start trouble. And there’s no real point in responding. But it is trash like you that makes it so hard for women out there to stay in the profession. Getting a break anywhere is tough. We don’t need your ignorant butt making it any worse.
Never let anyone discourage you from doing what you want. Law is a great career, as many professions. Well worth the effort and dedication. Go out there and make yourself, but don’t give up mid way. Be sure of what you want and do whatever it takes.
With all due respect, Paul’s advice is to shallow to be followed.
Should you allow somebody to discourage you from doing what you want? Perhaps you should, if what you want will be a disaster for you.
But a better way, you have to make your own decisions. But disregarding the opinions of the experienced in favor of your own perception might not be a good idea. It might be. But at the end of the day, what people here are saying is “think”.
“Law is a great career, as many professions. Well worth the effort and dedication.” This statement means nothing, as you could say it about anything. “Bank robbing is a great career”. Sound false? Well, it is.
Being a lawyer may or may not be a great career for you. And there really is no such career as “law”. There’s a bunch of fields within the law, and all a person can do is to tell what their own field, and experience is like. Clearly, many real life lawyers here, including myself, feel that law is not a great career. It does require great effort and dedication, and that never ceases. After 21 years in, I still work about ten hours every week day and typically work at least six days per week. It’s all stress in my field, and it is not well worth teh effort and dedication, you simply have no choice.
Maybe for you it would be worth teh effort and dedication. But in that instance, you should read this:
http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/12/18/bad-career-advice-do-what-you-love/#comment-242372
The author of this blog counsels that you should “do what you are”. That’s solid advice.
Many people will note that you should “do what you love”. She comments on that. FWIW, I don’t know anyone who loves the law, and if they did, they’d probably be better suited being a law professor rather than a real lawyer (and they are not the same), as only law professors get to deal with the abstract notion of “the law”.
Some people, however “are” lawyers. Unfortunately, I’m often told that I am, which distresses me. But perhaps for some, they are that, and they’d be happy in their careers for that reason.
Again, at the end of the day, the advice is think and know what you are doing.
Well said. See that’s the kind of verbal precision you get from a lawyer and is needed on this super long article.
For my son, law school was “something to do.” After he took a hard look at lawyers and the profession from the inside, he decided “anything is better than law.” Law school was a wrong turn, but at least the baristas in the bar where he works are impressed with his LLB.
The baristas are impressed with his LLB.
A lot of lawyers are impressed with the fact that he is employed, while they are not.
Law school has too many Type-A gunner personalities. If you want to do “public interest” there are far better options for that… and they do not require a law degree. The reality for that is most people who end up doing it, are burnt out lawyers that worked at a big firm for awhile, or rich kids who their parents are funding them to do so. For the struggling student for a low income or low middle class family, basically, no support whatsoever, trying to do that would be a HUGE mistake in modern times.
The might be one of the dumbest things i have ever read on the internet. To say that by going to law school you wont have doors open for you is a joke. Lawyers have a different perspective on the business world and that is a valuable asset to any company. So, who really cares if you don’t know what you want to be, with a law degree you can do anything you want, and you will likely look better than a lot of the other applicants.
If you want to be a lawyer who goes to court and tries cases, then go be that lawyer. Just because 95% of civil cases dont go to trial doesnt mean you wont get to go to trial. Why dont you go be a public defender? They spend their whole day in trial. That also busts your little “myth” about defending the little guy because that is about as little as you can get.
Being a lawyer is also far more intellectually challenging then a lot of other boring office jobs. It may be tedious and monotonous work, but it is still more challenging than pushing papers all day.
Stepen Steckler, you are a joke.
“The might be one of the dumbest things i have ever read on the internet. To say that by going to law school you wont have doors open for you is a joke. Lawyers have a different perspective on the business world and that is a valuable asset to any company.”
Boldy spoken, but without citation to any real world examples.
It’s an easy thing to say that lawyers have a different prospective that would be a valuable asset to any company, it’s another thing entirely to show that companies values those assets, or that they are even real.
By and large, except for large companies, hiring a lawyer to work in any capacity other than law is a bad bet, and it’s far cheaper just to hire a lawyer as needed. Most companies do not need, or want, a lawyer on staff. Lawyers are regarded as a hindrance to getting things done, are generally only consulted when really needed, which is often after they should be.
To think, at any rate, that a law degree is an open door to a career in a career in anything else is engaging in some incomplete thinking. Why would anyone want to hire a lawyer to occupy any position other than a legal one? Would you hire a physician to do anything other than practice medicine? Probably not. And you’d generally regard a physician applying for some other type of job as a bit unhinged. That’s the way many lawyers are looked at if they’re applying outside of a legal position.
You cannot do anything that you want with a law degree. You can be a lawyer with a law degree. People don’t want to hire lawyer to do anything other than practice law. Why should they believe otherwise?
I went to law school in the mid west in 2007 (from NYC) to my first choice, a Top 100 school. I was unprepared for the academic program involved and began experiencing severe anxiety towards the end of my first semester due to the pressure of family obligations 2000 miles away and returning to school at a fairly advanced age (39). I was given the bad advice by a teaching assistant to proceed with my finals because “no one gets below a ‘C’ with the curve;” my grades were: B, D-, and an F. I took a medical leave of absence to have the symptoms of anxiety and depression I was experiencing evaluated and treated by university medical professionals. I returned the following Fall semester to repeat the classes, and found myself unable to balance work, and school, and still a little bit rattled by having receiving the poorest grades of my lifetime in my first semester. With the loneliness I was feeling, symptoms of depression, and concern about not being able to work as a part-time student in the prime earning years of my life, I withdrew from school. Two months later, I immediately regretted the decision, and was re-admitted for the third time to retake the first semester already $30,000.00 in debt. My third semester was somewhat of a success however I made two critical mistakes: I did NOT take practice exams in preparation for two finals, and handed a paper that represented 60% of my grade late by twelve hours; I ended up with a B-, C, and C this time around. The anxiety of being on academic probation and having little margin for error eventually resulted in more severe health problems for myself, an inability to concentrate, pressure from my family and friends, a decreased and weakened confidence in myself, and I eventually withdrew from law school altogether, $79,000.00 in debt. I will always regret having quit, even with the mounting debt, and not securing the J.D., and not having found a way to enhance my mental fortitude, find the right help and resources and the right mindset and support system to get the job done. I am now faced with trying to explain to my family and friends what went wrong, address psychological issues I never experienced before attending law school, and returning to a career I have been absent from for three years without being able to explain why I went to law school and did not work for three years and do not have a law degree to show for it. If I had to do it all over again, I would have went to a Tier Three school and a little more relaxed environment for someone my age – the first year is the toughest and if I was successful I could transfer; otherwise I could remain in the Third Tier School and earn one of the most coveted of graduate degrees: a J.D. Think carefully about yourself, especially if you have been out of school for sometime, about what you are capable of, and what this degree might mean to you. I now dread turning 55 without a professional degree, and not a minute goes by that I do not wish I knew in 2007 what I know now; as of today, the law school experience, while providing some of the fondest memories of my life, has in many ways ruined my life. A law school curriculum, particularly for non-conventional students, should be designed to give such students every possible chance for success (e.g., three exams per class in the first semester, not one final and an automatic dismissal for students with a G.P.A. of 2.20 or less).
It is truly amazing to read the negativity given to the subject. As with most things in life, you get what you put in. It’s that simple. Preparation is key.
You want to graduate top of your class, study hard! Deny yourself the luxuries that others enjoy and maximize your time and be as efficient as possible with it. You don’t want to be saddled with $100k debt right out of law school, choose smartly! Shop around to see what school is right for you and won’t charge you an arm or a leg for the education. There are a few top tier schools that have reasonable tutition. You may have to move or relocate but is it not worth it? Top Tier School+Low Tuition= Excellent prospects. You want a $200k salary, work hard! Yes your time will be consumed, yes you will miss out on some important family functions, yes you may start to grow gray hair, and yes your spouse and possibly kids will start to wonder if you are even part of the family, however, time management is essential.
All things are possible but there must be a plan in place. Especially for law school and from what I gather on here, most negative posts seem to come from student’s or people who easily give in when the going gets tough. Bite down and move forward! Nothing comes easy for most of us in this life so don’t live with that expectation. Oh, and just in case I did mispell something, please don’t mark me down for that. I truly need this class.
Hello Mr. Stephen Seckler,
If I may, I would like to ask you a question. For the future I am considering to work in the legislation industry, such as on Capitol Hill and perspectively one day run for office in my local district or city. To me common sense speaks that law school is a crucial step for aspiring public officials, especially if their jobs are in the legislation industry.
Your reply and guidance would be very much appreciated.
Nearly all of this has been geared towards BIG LAW. What about those of us who want to open a solo?
Are the prospects as bad?
Here’s an amusing, and realistic, look at trial practice. This guy likes it, but that’s due to the character traits he notes at the end.
http://www.americanbar.org/content/dam/aba/multimedia/migrated/litigation/podcast/10_curmudgeon.authcheckdam.mp3
Wow. Interesting topic. I couldn’t make it through the bottom of the comments. My two bob’s worth is as follows: most people I know wish they had not studied law. Most commercial work is depressing work. It is stressful. It is boring. The people you work with are almost not human. Your joy of life is sucked out of you day by day. You are trained to see the negative in everything. You can become arrogant. You make people cry. In short, you become the person you despise, day by day. And the money? Most never get it. Some do. I just am now. There is always luck in it. Hard work? Yeah, sure. But everyone works hard. What makes you special? Think of the matrix. You think you’re “The One”, but your the 20th One I’ve seen. It pretty well always ends the same way. PART 1
Wow. Interesting topic. I couldn’t make it through the bottom of the comments. My two bob’s worth is as follows: most people I know wish they had not studied law. Most commercial work is depressing work. It is stressful. It is boring. The people you work with are almost not human. Your joy of life is sucked out of you day by day. You are trained to see the negative in everything. You can become arrogant. You make people cry. In short, you become the person you despise, day by day. And the money? Most never get it. Some do. I just am now. There is always luck in it. Hard work? Yeah, sure. But everyone works hard. What makes you special? Think of the matrix. You think you’re “The One”, but your the 20th One I’ve seen. It pretty well always ends the same way. PART 1
PART II OF II (follows from Part 1) I’ve been admitted as a lawyer for over a decade. I only know two people who have become partners from my peer group. Me and one other. He earns about 290k, salaried. I earn more than that (over twice, but had to buy in). The money is the only good thing, if you get there – almost everyone does not. You are no different. All that cool stuff you’ve done. Forget it. Everyone has done it. Yeah, you’re the “one”, in your own matrix head. But to us partners, you are just fighting a battle that was set up before you even decided to study law. The result is almost all the same. Be it two years, 5 or 10. You’ll be broken. Crushed. Depressed. Suicidal even. You’ll drink to much. Bore women with your bullshit. Scare your mother with your negativity. You’ll get older, and wonder what could have been. You’ll spend too much on your lifestyle. You’ll get trapped. There is no escape. But little true wealth. It is a slog. Some people do it really hard. I don’t recommend people study law.
PART II OF II (follows from Part 1) I’ve been admitted as a lawyer for over a decade. I only know two people who have become partners from my peer group. Me and one other. He earns about 290k, salaried. I earn more than that (over twice, but had to buy in). The money is the only good thing, if you get there – almost everyone does not. You are no different. All that cool stuff you’ve done. Forget it. Everyone has done it. Yeah, you’re the “one”, in your own matrix head. But to us partners, you are just fighting a battle that was set up before you even decided to study law. The result is almost all the same. Be it two years, 5 or 10. You’ll be broken. Crushed. Depressed. Suicidal even. You’ll drink to much. Bore women with your bullshit. Scare your mother with your negativity. You’ll get older, and wonder what could have been. You’ll spend too much on your lifestyle. You’ll get trapped. There is no escape. But little true wealth. It is a slog. Some people do it really hard. I don’t recommend people study law.
First of all, a lot of credibility is lost due to errors, but i will focus on facts asserted with which I disagree.
The costs, however, are not exaggerated. There are very, very few scholarships and even less financial aid for law school. You are not allowed to work, even part time, your first year. The cheapest in-state tuition I’ve found is about 10,000 per semester.
As to the second point, it’s very ignorant. Check the employment statistics of the school you are interested in. Also, the tier does not really impact your job prospects. In fact, it’s best to somewhere you would like to work and make connections in the area than to go far away even if the school has good name. Plus, it may be easier to be at the top of your class in a smaller group than end up at the bottom at a top school. Obviously.
Myth 3 says most lawsuits never make it trial. True, but most lawyers aren’t trial lawyers. There are a lot of areas- Tort, Criminal, family, and Contract law-that can bring lawyers to the court room and plenty of areas that do not. Law school will provide exposure to different settings so you know if you even really want to go there.
ALL lawyers have to do pro bono work, so yes. This point is invalid.
The last “myth” is subjective. It depends on the person. For many, it is.
> ALL lawyers have to do pro bono work, so yes. This point is invalid.
Not true. The rules vary based on where you are licensed.
Partner says that law is a rat race that is hard to escape. This may be true, but even the rat race beats not being in the running because you can’t find employment.
how unmotivating…. seems like you see the glass half empty:(
how unmotivating…. seems like you see the glass half empty:(
This is very true. As the devoted wife of a lawyer, who was also his devoted wife through law school, my husband would agree with all of this. He did go to a top tier school with great grades and had good job prospects. BUT, so much of where you get a job offer depends on where you get a summer internship. THAT interview process can often involve a lottery. The law school told my husband where he would be interviewing for his summer internships. He ended up accepting an offer from the place where he interned and hated the place. Fortunately, he was headhunted and left to go to a much better place as a first year. He was lucky.
We also had no idea how difficult becoming a partner would be. Many jobs promite people who deserve it and over time, if you prove yourself, you will get there. Not so much in this profession. It is VERY political and has little to do with your actual qualifications. My husband it approaching his time of eligibility and is sweating bullets about all of the unknown, uncontrollable factors.
I guess, if you are thinking about this as a career, ask people who are in the business before you commit. They may be able to share tidbits like my comments above that will convince you to change your mind.
You people are so bitter. It’s almost comical. That includes Stephen Seckler. Hahaha! So sad.
why do you advise people if they should go to law school when you never went to law school yourself? As an actual law student, I can say that almost all of your advice on this topic is wrong. Waste of $$.
I agree with the author and other commentators to some degree. Don’t go to law school if you are aiming to become rich (500K+). Very little percentage of law graduates actually achieves this level of income. Don’t go to law school if you have no idea what you want to do with the degree. You will most likely end up incurring a big debt that haunt you for the rest of your life. Don’t go to law school if you are in it for the prestige. A law degree may not get you much attention on dating websites! (Congratulations to those who do…) HOWEVER, as a public interest lawyer myself working in NYC, I love my job. It is intellectually challenging, and I am helping people who cannot stand up for themselves otherwise. I actually practice law: motion practices, oral arguments at lower courts and appellate courts, trials, politics involvements, etc. The myth that public interest lawyers are low-quality is simply untrue. We have people from all tiers of law school, including schools like Harvard and Yale. Many of us are good lawyers! I myself got two awards at graduation, with one of them comes with actual money! As for the compensation, it is really not that bad, at least when compared to the starting salary of some small law firms. Moreover, some nonprofit organizations have unions. This is why organizations like ours offer relatively good benefits. (i.e., PPO within a good healthcare network). Most importantly, I get to enjoy my life outside of work. It is a give-and-take: you make less money, but you are not working 80+ hours a week. Sure, on occasions, you work more, but it is not the norm. I understand not everyone can afford to work in the public interest field, but I think it is something a potential law student should consider.
I went to a Tier 4 school and my GPA is 3.0. I could have attended a better school with a 164 LSAT (but not a top 14), but chose a University close to home.
With that said, I never went to law school intending on working for someone else. My passion is with family law and I opened my own practice. I began practicing when I was 52, so new clients assumed I had been an attorney for a long time. To my own accord, I had studied family law on my own for about 15 years before I went to law school. Once in school, I spent many hours in the courtroom just observing, and my experience wasn’t much different than I had reading case law, statute law, actual litigant’s experience and typical outcomes.
At 57, I have more clients than I can handle. I’ve gained a great reputation of being fair, negotiable, yet out to serve my client and often his/her children.
My point is that if you know exactly what type of law you want to practice and are willing to work hard, success is challenging, but not all that difficult.
My only advice is that if you plan to open your own practice, don’t worry about what school you attend. Your goal is to get the license to practice.
In retrospect, if I had been able to skip law school altogether and just take a class to study for the Bar, I would be in the same place I am now. The school was merely a means to an end. But then, being older, I had 35 years of work experience under my belt in several fields (law enforcement, business owner and mental health professional), so I was well “seasoned” before ever attending law school.
I was a police officer before law school and I had served in the Army. The problem with law students is the most come from priveleged backgrounds and are not familiar with hard work and no getting undergraduate degree is not hard work.
Life is hard get use to it and the law is the only thing that keeps society in control, go to Mexico or some other third world country where guns rule
“I was a police officer before law school and I had served in the Army. The problem with law students is the most come from priveleged backgrounds and are not familiar with hard work and no getting undergraduate degree is not hard work.”
I’m always amazed that lawyers think law school is hard work. It isn’t. Lots of undergraduate degrees are much harder. Law school is actually extremely easy, and about any person of average to slightly lower than average intelligence can get through law school. I do agree many law students do not realize that, but that’s because they had extraordinarily easy undergraduate degrees. I wish that the “pre law” curriculum would be done away with entirely for that reason, as its worthless.
What’s hard is actually practicing law. Law school does not tend to actually prepare anyone to practice law, and the nature of law school attracts people who often not suited to practice law (probably about 40% are unsuited for it).
I was a police officer before law school and I had served in the Army. The problem with law students is the most come from priveleged backgrounds and are not familiar with hard work and no getting undergraduate degree is not hard work.
Life is hard get use to it and the law is the only thing that keeps society in control, go to Mexico or some other third world country where guns rule
I’m a twenty-five year old disabled senior at a major university with my own prospective on law school. My major right now is political science without any minor causing of thinking that minors are worthless for wha I want to do with my degre. This would be your first mistake if your going to law school with my experience with Harvard professors like othe Ivy league profs out here at my university with or without law school j.d degres can teach you that if you don’t know what your doing law school isn’t for you. Get a nitch in your under graduate by doing tons of research online on market trends don’t go in blindly in anything let alone law school. Another thing that I learned is that college is pointless if your gpa is under 3.00 for the most part in any field especially law.
Secondly, many of you had good points to consider even for me cause at one ti I thought about being a lawyer. I’ll tell you guys that I’m convinced that law school isn’t worth the hassle of this untraditional working class blind college student for many reasons. Some people mentioned a passion for your field that is true for me to a limited extent but only up to the point of not surpassing practicality like my under graduate degree isn’t a career track field. Look at all things like variables in a formula in cost-benefit analyst prospectives with what you know and what your willing to give up for that high paying field that gives up much security in the meanwhile. Do you want to RISK 200k roughly in debt for a chance to compete with others and the inflatted market for your skill area with or witohut your expertese or interest in the compatable marketplace? Think about that most importantly in the Market Place not statements of opinion or belief because this is Serious lifelong decision of investment like most education is more than self-enrichment due to the nature of law in general and the market for that skill.
Thirdly, I’d like to mention that do your own research if you don’t believe anyone on these posts before making a lifelong decision. Interview and job shadow lawyers in your proposed field before even doing the LSTAT test. I’ll tell you that many college student now days have no idea what so ever with what they want to do post-college years including me to a limited extent. This includes honors students to the low graded level students. May I also say that th also pertains to peopole with internships and even part-time experience causee it isn’t all rosey flowers out here. Also, look inside of yourself for the answers cause these posts mean nothing to those with the know how to do it unlike me. I’ll be the first to tell you that I’m legal material just not lawyer material it turns out that way tha hobbies are hobbies and professions are professions.
Finally, I hope that my post will at least give the prospective law student a second glance before deciding a terminal degre of any variety including law. I’m thinking of something in education or foreign analyst work/statistical research for the Census. Also, look at yourself ten or twenty years not now with immediate benefits (e.g. material goods, etc for your young age cause not all things in life are about money. I’m going into a field that is moderately competative and not that high in demand cause of limited abilities of visio that prohibit me from entering a variety of professions that I’d have considered otherwise. Perhaps think like me to sell less to be practical till such a time for either a leisurely study or to quit the idea entirely like my idea of physics or astronomy. Also, ask your family/friends what they think about what skill or trade best fits your personality type. Take some personality quizes or the Miers Brigg test and see a Career Counseler on campus or out of campus. The final point is that Life isn’t wht you so much make of it as much as your willing to adapt to life that counts to be as much satisified with what you have and to pursue realistic dreams withousacrificing practicality in the process. Maybe just maybe we will get through to a few people here that law like most things are hyped up beyond expectations and you will earn every penny in the process of any field.
People that likes to pick on people’s grammar and spelling are just trying to make themselves feel better. Why pick on every little detail when you don’t even read about what the person is trying to say? You’re just acting an elementary school kid that goes alallalalalal I can’t hear you!
I’ve been 2nd questioning myself about law school and might talk to an advior before I graduate! I just decided that I didn’t know enough till I see a lawyer myself to get real advice from. I’d suggest others to do the same and realize that its never too late to try! Maybe just maybe there is something to this law business worth going into.
Anyone know anything about going to law school to get your JD then becoming a patent attorney. I’m currently getting my Chemical Engineering degree but have always been interested in going to law school so when I did research and found a patent attorney combines those two careers I felt like that’s what I needed to pursue. However, all this talk about law school not being worth it has me intimidated. However, unlike the first myth I do have an an idea of how I wish to use my law degree and if not I will have my ChemE degree to fall back on I suppose.
While it would no doubt help, you do not need a law degree to take the patent bar. And just having a law degree does not qualify you to take the patent bar. Certain technical requirements exist, which you probably have given your engineering degree.
Absolutely correct, Penelope!
Not only cannot not find work in the legal field, my law degree closes doors to other careers- “overqualified.” Eleven years later, I am still paying the loans. I made more money my first year working as a nurse than I did in three years working as an attorney.
do you have to be a lawyer first if want to be a judge ?
Of course. Justices of the Peace in some localities do not, but in this day and age with a lawyer surplus, planning on being a judge of any kind, without a law degree, would be rather wishful thinking.
Wow. Stumbled on this After googling older law students. The reason I was searching for info on older law students is that when I was 40 — 8 years ago– my most beloved pet was the victim of veterinary malpractice. This got me interested in animal law, and for years at m own expense I have been attending animal law conferences. The people I have met who work in animal law are amazing, inspirational people doing what I believe is the most important work on the planet right now. I am sure most of them did no choose to focus on this area of law because they like to win — the deck is always stacked against them, they almost always lose, and this makes each precious victory even more rewarding. Surely they are not in it for the money — there is no money in it, and if you get a job with a major advocacy organization it will be at public interest salaries. So by all means, if your motive for going into law is wealth, there certainly seem to be innumerable better paths to that end — become a real estate agent, buy a franchise, a car dealership. If it’s security you want and just a decent wage and a virtual guarantee of a job, go into software work as I did or become a health worker. But if you are not seeking riches, can afford to just get by, and think that a law degree will give you a chance to do work you will find rewarding and valuable, why not go for it? I haven’t yet and if I’d done so when I initially had the inclination I’d be done by now. You will still be however old you are going to be whether you do it or not.
So, don’t go to law school unless you’re willing to suck the man’s dick? I can do that for free but I’d rather do it wearing a custom Armani suit, law school here I come, baby!!
LOL. Definitely the most entertaining debate on commentary I’ve read in a looooong time.
I personally think it is the terrible economy and the amount of money it costs to go to school these days that is taking its toll on the career of lawyering.
I think the best advice for anyone is to do your research before you spend a lot of money to go to college for a degree. Make sure the job market is there and the career you choose pays well. It is a simple concept called Return On Investment, and this research can be done by simply googling “Top Ten Careers” and reading the Business Weekly, Forbes, etc. articles that come up. For example, I did the research before deciding to go to P.A. school (instead of medicine because the ROI is lower) and who would know but I found out that being an actuary pays very well, the hours are manageable, and job stress is low? Who would’ve even thought of that as a profession?
If you are passionate about becoming a lawyer, then do what it takes to end well. It is pretty clear how to get there. Get into a top school, be a top student and network, network, network. None of this is easy and only you know if you have what it takes to make it.
I used to do paralegal temp work at a law firm with mass tort cases. 15% of the work was interesting and it did not pay well. I was temping with several disgruntled lawyers. It was similar to working at a call center, combined with a mail service. That was all I needed that convince me that a law school degree was not for me. (I was thinking about it…)
People can also go into advocacy work, go into politics or lobby instead if you really care about bringing about justice or changing the world. Those jobs do not pay well if you are interested in addressing social issues, but make sure you don’t get this field mixed up with lawyering.
Every school has forgiveness because it is a Federal program with Federal loans.
I need representation in a no trespass case, I’m looking for pro-bono help from an attorney.
Are Law School graduates more likely to take cases involving their schools or are they more cautious to take those cases for fear of some sort of peer disapproval ?
Regarding Tony’s comment above, law is a tough business and lawyers need to eat like every one else. Asking your question is no different from asking if a graduate from your high school who is a barber will give you a free haircut, or if a local grocery store will give you free groceries, or a local realtor a free house. In other words, you shouldn’t ask that question. You should pay for what you receive.