You are probably wondering if I think about Melissa having an affair with the Farmer.
I do. I think about it all the time.
As a preventive measure I tell the farmer that if he cheats on me, I'll stay with him. Forever. I'll never leave him. He'll be stuck on the farm with me, in misery. I try to create a scene in his head like a Beckett play: Two characters isolated from the world, in a room, making each other miserable.
Melissa and the Farmer always assure me that they will never do that.
One night, in bed alone, I ask the Farmer: "Do you think about having sex with Melissa?"
He says, "Well, I notice her body. But I don't think about having sex with her."
I say, "Of course you notice her body. She has a size 00 waist and a size C bra cup."
"Well, okay. Then stop talking to me all the time about having sex with her and then I'll be less likely to think about it."
When I ask Melissa if she is going to cheat, she is horrified. Probably because it would ruin everything we have here. Also, though, I don't think she's attracted to him.
The problem is that I think she is getting more attracted to him. Which gets me thinking about how you can tell if someone will cheat.
1. Cheating is a lot about proximity.
We are most attracted to the people we see most often. I have read this in a lot of places. Most notably, a co-worker is more apt to like you if you work in the same office, as opposed to telecommuting, or working in another field office.
But the proximity research works for families, as well. A psychologist I interviewed, around the time that the Farmer was dumping me because his parents hated me, told me that if I were living on the farm, his parents would start to like me more because proximity leads to affinity.
This never happened, by the way. The Farmer's parents hate me more than ever and they disinherited the Farmer from their land even though he is still the only one of their kids farming on the land.
What it shows me is that you have to be open to affinity in order for proximity to enhance it.
I think a man is always open to affinity when it comes to a woman half his age.
And check this out: 70% of married investment bankers have cheated on their spouses. This doesn't surprise me as much as the fact that they are most likely to cheat on a business trip, with whoever is near them at the time.
Also, the reason half of Enron was indicted is probably because we become like the people we work with. (The people least likely to believe this, by the way, are law students who take on tons of debt and say they will join a big law firm, not get addicted to power and money, and when their loans are paid they'll join a nonprofit.) So cheaters foster cheaters.
Location location location.
2. You can estimate the verity of someone's response to: will you cheat?
Melissa's horses arrived.


In order to get the Farmer to agree to horses, Melissa told us, over and over again, how great she is with horses.
I believed her.
The Farmer says that a lot of people say they are good with horses, when really, they know nothing.
Melissa told the Farmer about how her parents home schooled her so she could spend all of her adolescence at a stable, helping the trainer with the horses.
The Farmer said, "Okay. Get horses." But he knows absolutely nothing about training horses and he can't help her at all. So she cannot ask him for help—he doesn't even like horses.
The horses got here and they were supposed to come already accustomed to having a saddle on them. Instead, they reared up like in a Lone Ranger movie when we tried to ride them.
So Melissa left the horses in the stall, sort of ignoring them.
After a few days, the Farmer said, "Something's wrong. She is not doing anything with the horses."
It turns out that Melissa had no idea how to get them to lunge longe without a pen. I don't even know what the word lunge longe means, actually. But the farmer went out and helped her. And it turns out the farmer is great with horses. It turns out that he knows how to get the horses to lunge and Melissa was not so confident.

This scenario makes sense to me because people's ability to self assess is generally constant.
For example, the Farmer generally underestimates himself, and Melissa generally overestimates herself. If you can get a read on how someone estimates himself in one scenario, then you can apply it to other scenarios.
All that makes me think that the Farmer is a little less likely to cheat than he tells me, and Melissa is a little more likely to cheat than she tells me. And the farmer loves the horse more than he admits.

3. Assuming everyone is honest is a better way to live.
It's hard to be trusting. But I'm not sure I have another choice. People who trust those around them are happier, more successful people. I want to be that.
And I'm struck how all the same things we do to build trust at work are the same things we do to build trust at home. So the more trusting you are the more trusting you get.
4. Being able to identify cheaters is a useless skill, even if you could do it.
Melissa sent this link from The New Inquiry to me about spotting liars. It's an interview with a college professor who talks about how he sniffs out plagiarism. When he describes the signs, they make sense, but I might have missed them myself. For example, he says, "The correct use of a semi-colon is a red flag to me," because most college kids don't use semi-colons at all, let alone correctly, when writing their papers.
The interviewer, who is someone who writes college papers for a pay, suggests that maybe so many kids plagiarize because the ability to come up with the stuff on their own isn't that useful when it's right there on the Internet. And maybe the kids just don't value a college education.
Hm. First of all, I think that probably is true. And a Stanford study shows that writing for social media is more educational than writing for class anyway.
So what is the point of the guy being able to identify plagiarizers? Sixteen percent of the students plagiarized. He needs to realize that he has more problems than he does cheaters. For starters, he has the problem that kids obviously don't see value in what he is teaching.
Also, did you know that the biggest problem with theft at Barnes & Noble is employee theft? They spend a lot of money to guard against internal pilfering. It seems like it'd be more effective to spend the money on making people happy at work.
5. Distractions are the best antidote to obsessive worry about cheats.
I did some research about cheaters. And it turns out that people who are likely to cheat have a ring finger that is longer than their index finger. I got this from Dr. Phil via Perez Hilton. But before you bitch about my sources, it does turn out that a longer ring finger is a sign of higher rates of testosterone in utero.
But I don't know how useful this will be to me. Because I have a longer ring finger. And I have never cheated on a boyfriend, or in a 15 year marriage. But I think that testosterone thing does make a difference in work. I think I'm better, more able to compete in a man's world, because of my extra testosterone.
So maybe I've been no use to you as to how to tell if someone is cheating, but you can tell if a woman will fit into an all-male office by looking at her ring finger. Really.




My ADHD brain loves how you jump from one thing to the next; I see the connections and do the same thing. But I'm not as good a writer, so you don't need to worry that I'll start a better blog.
The farmer is cute. I'm happy for you.
Posted by Samantha on June 27, 2011 at 12:02 am | permalink |
Penelope, most men have longer ring fingers than index fingers. So effectively he's saying is men are more likely to cheat.
Posted by Mishigas on June 27, 2011 at 12:07 am | permalink |
Three things: I have AS, therefore I do not cheat. And, my ring finger is longer than my index finger.
2nd thing: I don't know if bicycle helmets are majorly different than riding helmets, but Melissa is wearing a bicycle helmet. Also, her leg position is not good, meaning she will not be secure if she tries to ride.
And, the farmer has honest, not 'planning on cheating' eyes. Of course, men can always be conned, fwtiw.
Posted by vicky on June 27, 2011 at 12:14 am | permalink |
I'd bang Melissa in a heartbeat, if that helps.
Posted by Matt Delaney on June 27, 2011 at 12:24 am | permalink |
And the flip side to that: the farmer would have to have a *really* great personality for me to want to bang him. REALLY great.
So if Matt Delaney and I were your husband and your best friend, respectively, it'd be pretty much a wash.
Posted by -k- on June 27, 2011 at 11:19 am | permalink |
don't get this but want to. Explain please?
Posted by karelysbeltran on June 27, 2011 at 8:54 pm | permalink |
You're funny Penelope. No, the thought that Mel would cheat with him never crossed my mind for a moment.
Maybe since you're so hung up about it you should arrange for them to have sex (maybe while you watch), just to get it out of your system. That way you can move on from the thought and get back to having a strange marriage with him and a strange friendship with her, haha.
Posted by Pete Michaud on June 27, 2011 at 12:55 am | permalink |
'We covet what we see every day [Clarice].'
Youbeaut horsie tips @ http://goodmorgans.wordpress.com/
Posted by Paul Hassing on June 27, 2011 at 1:13 am | permalink |
Absolutely true. Proximity is dangerous. Get rid of Melissa, the sooner the better. Put her on a plane/train/automobile to Woodstock, NY. It's very country-ish. She will be able to take lots and lots of pictures and, more importantly, she will be half a continent away from The Farmer. Her pictures are pretty, but they're not THAT pretty. Goodbye, Melissa! Trust me on this.
Been there. Done that. Got the T-shirt.
Posted by Kay Lorraine on June 29, 2011 at 6:16 pm | permalink |
All my fingers are exactly the same length, including my thumb…and toes. And I STILL agree with Matt. Not that I would actually DO it. I'd back away and SAY I did. Is that REVERSE CHEATING? Or just high school mentality?
I'm so confused. Or is it acute self assessment? Or is it lack of trust. I don't trust TRUST, that's what it is. And I blame it all on my parents. There! I said it! Can I have a horse?
Irv
Posted by Irving Podolsky on June 27, 2011 at 1:16 am | permalink |
I also noticed she's not wearing a horse riding helmet. If the horse is untrained she should really be wearing a horse riding helmet because they are designed for falls from a higher distance/have padding in different places. Expect to fall off untrained horses a lot.
Don't let your kids ride a horse, even calm ones, in a bike helmet.
Also, the farmer looks like a man who is good with creatures who are easily spooked…and horses
Posted by Twister on June 27, 2011 at 2:01 am | permalink |
so if you let your friend share the farmer, it wouldn't be cheating…and the farmer would be much happier…
(i'm just sayin')
Posted by scot on June 27, 2011 at 2:09 am | permalink |
Spoken like a true man.
Posted by Kay Lorraine on June 29, 2011 at 6:19 pm | permalink |
Weirdly, the last bit made sense. In my 8 yrs plus of working as a manager, I have never, ever, ever had a female colleague. OK, maybe once, for 5 months, in a parallel department.
As for cheating – well, if you worry about it, it will happen! Stop putting notions in others' heads.
Posted by Dips on June 27, 2011 at 2:19 am | permalink |
Penelope, I think our AS makes us naturally distrustful of the motives of others. My husband says I don't trust him because he's actually fairly trustworthy and I trusted my ex even though I knew that he was lying because his mouth was moving. The reality is that I never trusted my ex and he cheated constantly
I do trust my husband now but I trust him with big picture things like paying the bills and keeping his hands to himself. These are things I know I couldn't trust my ex to do. The other part of this is that we tend to over think everything because our brains don't know any other way to cope.
Posted by Autie Zombie Girl on June 27, 2011 at 3:31 am | permalink |
Hi, Penelope — Thank you for mentioning trust. That trust issue (point #3 above) has been huge for me this year — so often, I've been operating waaaay outside my comfort zone, so much that it's beyond fish out of water, more like fish on another planet!
Then something shifted around March. Since then, I've noticed that when I approach others from a point of directness and transparency (willing to be more vulnerable, rather than withholding or accusatory), I tend to get that energy in return. And here's the surprising part: I respect myself a whole lot more too.
Long story, short version: My life has been moving a lot faster lately, yet I feel a lot more grounded. And I hope that happens for you too. I really do.
Posted by Bill on June 27, 2011 at 4:10 am | permalink |
Analysis: you subconsciously created this situation so that 1) you could punish yourself for finally being happy and stable (repetition compulsion) 2) you could have an excuse to leave the boring isolated farm. Why do this to yourself?
Posted by justathought on June 27, 2011 at 4:12 am | permalink |
I love your Blog Penelope; not sure if you're seriously asking advice or indulging your creative writing skills.
I do believe horses are great teachers and good character judges. (Check out some stories @ http://goodmorgans.wordpress.com/ )
We can learn a lot from watching herd behaviour.
An Alpha mare wouldn't allow the stallion to have quality time with another mare. She'd send her from the herd.
Regardless of finger length or tendency to cheat, testosterone encourages mating. Show the farmer you have leadership skills and evict Melissa.
Instead of helping her with her horse your Farmer can take you out to lunch or get on with his farming.
You might wonder what my qualifications are to give this advice. I'm a 62 year old Grandmother seven years into my third marriage. The first husband of 17 years enjoyed the company of my girlfriends until he found one more exciting than me. The second nine year marriage involved alcohol and violence.
Experience is a great teacher if we're willing to learn. My farmer husband and I have a wonderful collaborative alliance.
Just as I wouldn't wait until a horse was bolting to ask it to slow down, I wouldn't wait until my husband and girlfriend were trying not to think about each other to remove the temptation. Far better to have them annoyed at you for a while than live with wishing you'd done something to prevent a disaster.
A North American Indian said âInside of me there are two dogs. One of the dogs is mean and evil. The other dog is good. The mean dog fights the good dog, all of the time.' When asked which dog wins, he reflected for a moment and replied âThe one I feed the most.'
Cheers,
Judy O
Posted by Judy on June 27, 2011 at 4:15 am | permalink |
As the wife of a recovering alcoholic, I recognize the parable about the dogs from a Father Martin lecture:) Nice reference.
Posted by AP on June 27, 2011 at 12:44 pm | permalink |
Don't go down this path of wondering about Melissa's intentions because you'll lose her friendship. In fact, I'm surprised she's not already insulted that you don't trust her. I've been in Melissa's postiion…
My former best friend of 15 years used to make the odd comment here and there about her husband and me. You see, I arrived at their house one time and had to pee really bad and I thought her husband was blowdrying his hair in the bathroom. I said "Is G in there because I have to pee bad?" Meaning..I could ask him to step out while I used the only toilet in the house. Apparently he was in the shower and this was wildly misinterpreed as me thinking it was ok to go in there and pee w/ him in there. Ha. Ha. Big joke.
Then, about 14 years into our friendship, she made the statement: "The only friends I don't trust around G is T and you." My mouth dropped. Why? B/c this other lifelong friend, T, did really try and get it on with her husband. I couldn't believe that she was comparing me to this other friend and the depth of her mistrust. I can't even describe how much that "joking" statement ruined our friendship. A year later, I broke off our friendship. There were other reasons but that was the big one.
Take a page out of my life and learn from it because I'm sure Melissa thinks you don't trust her and isn't trust in a friendship pretty major? Yes. It is.
Katherine
Posted by Katherine on June 27, 2011 at 4:56 am | permalink |
My mouth dropped open when I read the first line of this post. Oy, I think this plays into Penelope trying to "start stuff" with her hubby because she's trying to shake things up & change things. Pre-suspecting him of wanting an affair is one way to piss off a lesser man, but like she says, the Farmer is not a typical fella.
Penelope, we're on to you and the Farmer is too.
Jane
Posted by Jane on June 27, 2011 at 5:58 am | permalink |
For some reason I did find this blog a bit disturbing.
You think about your friend and husband having an affair 'all the time'? Do you want it to happen?
If you keep on talking about it, as well, you are putting ideas and thoughts into their heads. I'd hate being in a situation like that, and surely it must be getting to you, on some level, otherwise you wouldn't be thinking about it.
I'm with Judy, remove the temptation! : )
Posted by Susy on June 27, 2011 at 4:58 am | permalink |
Say all you want ladies, but it's in a man's genes.
Posted by Matt Delaney on June 27, 2011 at 5:13 am | permalink |
Quick question, Penelope:
Did the farmer lose his inheritance because of you?
If so, that's a high price to pay; but also a rather clear indicator that he's into you.
If, having forefeited his birthright for love, he were to ruin your relationship with infidelity, he'd really end up with nothing.
I don't know the man from a bar of soap. But he cites Melville and looks square at the camera like he has nothing to hide.
That's gotta count for something. P.
Posted by Paul Hassing on June 27, 2011 at 5:19 am | permalink |
Yeah. When I think about all this rationally. When I try to. I think to myself that he lost something very big for me, and he is not likely to ruin what he has with me since that's what he has left.
On the other hand, sometimes i think people do not get disinherited because of their spouse. They get disinherited because there is a messed up relationship with their parents — it's not normal for parents to punish a child so severely for the spouse he or she chooses. And then I think the Farmer did not lose the farm because of me. He lost it because of how his parents viewed him to begin with.
Penelope
Posted by Penelope Trunk on June 27, 2011 at 6:53 am | permalink |
Spot on.
Posted by Pirate Jo on June 27, 2011 at 11:42 am | permalink |
agreed. I think that if handled with honesty this situation can let you in the farmer and the farmer in you. So you end up knowing more about each other and why you think the things you think. It can teach more about yourself too. If you try really hard to distract yourself without finding out why you are arriving to those conclusions so often then it will nag you a long time and create problems rooted in insecurity because they case hasn't closed.
Posted by karelysbeltran on June 27, 2011 at 9:02 pm | permalink |
On my left hand my ring finger is longer than my index – on my right hand vicey-versa. What's that mean?
That is one pretty pony.
I watched the Joan Rivers reality show about her life w/her daughter Melissa. When Joan arrived in CA and Melissa had both her boyfriend and a boobalicious "nanny" for her son living in Joan asked Melissa what was she trying to prove.
Just sayin'.
Posted by Maureen Sharib on June 27, 2011 at 5:22 am | permalink |
same here – left ring finger longer than index, right ring finger shorter than index. never noticed that before.
Posted by Suze on June 27, 2011 at 9:46 am | permalink |
Any chance you're both left-handed?
Posted by CoTechGirl on June 27, 2011 at 1:23 pm | permalink |
I'm right handed.
Posted by Maureen Sharib on June 27, 2011 at 5:02 pm | permalink |
Matt, Matt, Matt – it is not in all men's genes – that is a load of horseshit.
I know many men who are faithful to their wives and would not look at another woman.
The best way to spot a cheater, in my experience, is look for the jealous ones. They're imagining it already.
The golden rule of cheating is-"If they'll do it with you they'll do it to you"
The hallmark of evidence is ignore everything your suspect says and look at what they actually do.
Talk is cheap.
And Katherine? is it possible that your ex-friend was a bit jealous/anxious about her husband "G" wanting to stray and you happened to catch the flak? A possibility..
Get some sleep people, it must be at least 5am up in that crazy-ass northern hemisphere
Posted by Pete on June 27, 2011 at 5:35 am | permalink |
I think the farmer is a gem, and you shouldn't worry about it too much. It is true that most men do have a longer ring finger than their index finger. Funny thing is mine is longer on my left hand and the same size on my right hand.
Posted by Heather on June 27, 2011 at 5:41 am | permalink |
You have instincts. Trust your instincts. Also, if it walks like a duck, well…
And I've asked this before: why is she there? Why not a place of her own nearby? Don't farm hands usually live in the barn, not in the main house? I obviously have trust issues!
Posted by Diana on June 27, 2011 at 6:00 am | permalink |
Trust issues? Or just plain common sense.
Posted by sophie on June 27, 2011 at 7:26 am | permalink |
Exactly! Why is she there? She should have her own place — like, say, in Oregon.
Posted by KL on June 29, 2011 at 6:27 pm | permalink |
I think many men will look at an attractive woman and see themselves having sex with her. It doesn't mean they are actually going to do it. Cheating and not cheating is more about self control than anything else. He's a farmer. He has lots of self control and patience. Both are required skills for farming. The same is true in reverse. I think some of my friend's husband's are hot, but I would never act on it. I value my friendships too much. Even if my husband died and my friends died, I'd never have sex with their husbands.
Posted by Alisa Bowman on June 27, 2011 at 6:05 am | permalink |
However… If my husband started mentioning repeatedly about my cheating with one of his friends, I might end up thinking, "well, if I'm going to be accused anyway, why not…".
Posted by Chris M. on June 27, 2011 at 10:14 pm | permalink |
OMG, he is ADORABLE!! Lock him in the barn.
Posted by Andree on June 27, 2011 at 6:09 am | permalink |
I am so psyched!! My ring finger is longer than my index finger!! I have always been told I am 'more like a dude than a girl' — usually by some 'dude' who thinks that's a compliment. I used to think it was a compliment…until I wanted to be more like a girl.
Now I can pick and choose.
:0)
Amy Parmenter
The ParmFarm
Posted by Amy Parmenter on June 27, 2011 at 7:02 am | permalink |
I absolutely knew such a post was coming. In fact, I suspected it would be worst, not because I mistrust the farmer but because Penelope needs fodder for her blog. Or because Penelope has a way of sabotaging everything that is right in her life. Why else would she have Melissa come live with them?
Melissa very well may have worked with horses as a kid, but they were probably gazillion dollar horses so well trained that a china doll could sit on them. When I was a kid there was a girl in my horse club like that. She was always a bit smug until one day our trainer made everyone ride someone else's horse. Suddenly, this "experienced rider" knew nothing about riding.
I think that same concept applies to Melissa. At first glance, she looks super sharp, has great business ideas and impressive work experience. But until now she's only worked for big, successful businesses or mega wealthy people, where it's much easier to shine and look brilliant.
The real brilliance, and the real learning, will be when Melissa gets out of your house and learns to do things on her own. And when she sticks with something long enough to see it through.
Posted by sophie on June 27, 2011 at 7:18 am | permalink |
That semicolon thing annoys the hell out of me. They say that here in England too about Personal Statements– that schoolkids write to get into universities. Supposedly if there's a semicolon the teacher must have written it. Well, I can use semicolons correctly, and probably used them correctly in my personal statement seven years ago, because I looked them up! Equally, clear and coherent prose writing in students really seems to surprise uni lecturers. It's almost as if they WANT their students to be muddle-headed. It worked for me in university though — write an essay that shows that you can string two sentences together and they're so happy and relieved that you can get good marks just for your writing. I think that college professor's cheater-spotting is self-fulfilling prophecy.
Posted by Laura-F on June 27, 2011 at 8:01 am | permalink |
Thanks, Laura, of everything mentioned in this post, that semicolon thing bugged me the most too. I know how to use a semicolon properly and I have since high school at least. I'm certain I used semicolons properly in several college essays. Thank god I didn't have professors like the lazy moron mentioned here.
Posted by Erin on June 27, 2011 at 8:17 am | permalink |
I was thinking the opposite here. My assumption is that the professor would have seen numerous examples of a student's work, and would have known the writing level of the student. If Student A writes poorly and Student B writes well and they both turn in great papers at the end of the term, chances are Student A will be questioned, while Student B will have deservedly earned a good grade. You said that you knew how to use semicolons since high school, so your writing was most likely always at a higher level than your peers. I'm sure your professors recognized and appreciated that, while other students were subjected to a bit more scrutiny.
Posted by ResumeWriter on June 27, 2011 at 9:52 am | permalink |
Your assumption that the professor will have seen numerous examples of the students' work only makes sense in a small, liberal arts college. At any large uni or state school, the prof probably has 50-200 kids per class, and assistants who do the majority of grading and one-on-one interaction. You don't see the same kid's writing enough in one semester to remember how good or bad they are.
Posted by Tzipporah on June 28, 2011 at 12:43 pm | permalink |
Not knowing the real dynamics of the situation and having your reporting as the only source of information (which is overthought and flavored with insecurity), I trust him and suspect he really loves you.
Riley
Posted by Riley Harrison on June 27, 2011 at 8:03 am | permalink |
My grandmother used to say, "if you can cheat on small things, you can cheat on big things." So I guess one way to spot a cheater is whether or not they are truthful to you in everyday small scenarios.
Posted by JS on June 27, 2011 at 8:21 am | permalink |
VERY wise words indeed! It's about values but it's also about getting our needs met. We're human. If our needs are being met we're not likely to look elsewhere.
Posted by Beach Mama on June 27, 2011 at 4:27 pm | permalink |
You are too funny! Great post!
Posted by Roberta on June 27, 2011 at 8:22 am | permalink |
Life is so interesting when you have some things that cannot be predicted. You've spoken your part, and given the Farmer and Melissa something to mull over. Trust your husband, and hope your friend will respect your wishes. I think it is as simple as that.
Posted by Yuse Lajiminmuhip on June 27, 2011 at 8:38 am | permalink |
It has been suggested that a longer ring finger is indicative of autism in women.
Posted by Kathleen on June 27, 2011 at 8:57 am | permalink |
Kathleen! Melissa and I were just saying the same thing. Her ring finger is longer, too. And women with AS clearly are not as feminine as, like, the cheerleader type, so maybe part of AS is too much testosterone.
I should get an NIH grant or something….
Penelope
Posted by Penelope Trunk on June 27, 2011 at 9:08 am | permalink |
Ironically, i just saw someone post a link that talks about this very thing today http://www.viewzone.com/fingers.html
they are thinking there are many many links to hormone exposure in the womb which also affect finger length and can help with diagnosis (not 100%, obviously, as it's newish research but it's very interesting to read)
Posted by kate on June 29, 2011 at 4:47 pm | permalink |
I've been thinking, when I get rich, I will probably need a personal assistant. How do you go about finding one of those? Preferably with a 00 waistline and C (or D) cup. Thanks in advance.
Posted by Paul on June 27, 2011 at 9:05 am | permalink |
Keep the farmer locked up, because if I were Melissa I'd sure have a go.
Posted by Justine on June 27, 2011 at 9:06 am | permalink |
one other thing, treacherous people like you become easy to spot, and therefore easy to avoid.
my current roommate would scew someone over/cheat/attempt to steal a bf at the drop of a hat, if it somehow benefited her. a sample of some tell-tale signs:
1. she "forgot" to give her last roommate back his deposit
2. she has no qualms about marrying 100% for money
3. one time we went out and a dude was talking to me…he offered to get both of us drinks, and she followed him to the bar and cornered him, got his business card, and emailed him.
it's no big deal really, i just don't extend our relationship beyond roommates.
oh, and my ring finger is longer than my index finger…which explains a lot.
Posted by Missy on June 27, 2011 at 9:49 am | permalink |
I don't see it happening. And take it from someone who's experienced this myself.
At the ripe old age of 24 I learned a huge lesson:
One of my best friends at the time, "Anna," just moved to the city and had to leave her current apartment* suddenly. My bf** at the time was living with a college friend and they had a 3rd room. I got the brilliant idea that she should just take over the 3rd room. The rent was super cheap, and my bf would save money – it was win-win!
Right.
I knew deep down that what would happen was inevitable, given both their personalities. They hooked up 5 months in and 6 years later, I haven't heard from Anna since, and the (ex) bf occasionally attempts contact in hopes of getting back together.
So, my point: I don't know about Melissa, but Farmer is not a cheater.
-M
*The circumstances around this were shady and should have raised some flags: She was staying rent free in her boss's beautiful apartment while he was out of town for a few months (he was in love with her) she decided to flee in the middle of the night, after emailing him her letter of resignation. RED. FLAG.
**My then bf had a history of cheating – he was jealous of his ex-gf's accomplishments and family so lashed out by cheating on her (with the girl his best buddy was in love with!), thereby ending their 5 year relationship. Red. Flag.
Posted by Missy on June 27, 2011 at 9:34 am | permalink |
Exceptionally useful post. And, yes, worked in male-rich environments all my life, with a longer ring finger. The guys used to tell me I had more testosterone than they did, as software developers. I guess they were right.
Posted by Lisa on June 27, 2011 at 10:37 am | permalink |
I hope Melissa is at least paying rent for all this trouble.
I don't think the Farmer seems like a cheater, the honesty in his answer and in his eyes says it all, IMO.
Both of my ring fingers are longer than my index fingers… although I'm physically very girlish, my personality is quite masculine, so I'm not at all surprised.
Posted by Lady Blue on June 27, 2011 at 11:08 am | permalink |
So … we've heard from lots of ladies whose ring fingers are longer than their index fingers (me included) … are there any girly girls out there with short ring fingers?
Posted by Long Ring Finger on June 27, 2011 at 12:22 pm | permalink |
My ring finger is a hair shorter than my index, but I'm not a girly-girl. I could have been male and been fine with it, and I've never been into fashion, shoes, babies, girltalk etc.
Maybe "a hair shorter" is close enough to "longer than?" for this purpose?
Posted by MJ on June 27, 2011 at 1:23 pm | permalink |
I think it's all a bunch of hooey.
Posted by Long Ring Finger on June 27, 2011 at 2:05 pm | permalink |
On my left hand my ring and index are exactly the same size…I wonder what that means?? On my right, my ring finger is a bit shorter…. I am a girly girl in alot of ways, but super competitive, which generally isn't very girly.
Posted by MM on June 27, 2011 at 3:38 pm | permalink |
On my left hand, my index finger is longer, but on my right hand, my ring finger is longer. No sure what that indicates, but I like to think it's the best of both worlds.
When I was a teen and in my early twenties, I was anti-feminine, active, good at math, music, and logical systems, as well as very skinny. In my late twenties, I've become curvier (boobs, hips, ass) and more comfortable with my feminine side. I've also come to realise that while I analyse every situation rationally in great detail and have trouble identifying and expressing my emotions, ultimately, all my decisions are based purely on emotion.
I've cheated once, but whether it was cheating depends on who you ask. We had already decided to end a long distance relationship but still wanted to see each other one last time before parting for good. Between deciding to break up, and rubberstamping it in person, I was with someone else.
So am I a cheater? I guess it depends whether I look at my right hand or my left hand.
Deep down we know when something's off in a relationship. It's just about having the courage to stare it in the face.
Posted by Thuy on June 28, 2011 at 12:43 am | permalink |
You mean when a woman talks about a friend to her man in a sexual way like that she is NOT actually suggesting it and giving her tacit permission?
D'oh!
Posted by Jens Fiederer on June 27, 2011 at 1:01 pm | permalink |
I am considering getting a PhD and becoming a professor. I am also a writing tutor and it would be really simple for me to do what the person named "Cheat" does. I read more quickly than most people do and I can synthesize information well; I can write an excellent paper in 4-8 hours. So many of my kids would love to just pay somebody to write their papers for them; a lot of the time, they try to push me into writing it. The demand is there and I am capable of supplying the services required. Sadly, I am ethical and I don't write other peoples' papers for them. However, I was really attracted by the idea of taking over a semester's courseload while the student travels around 48 states. How incredible would that be? The student probably learned things that were more valuable than what he would have learned at school.
Posted by CL on June 27, 2011 at 1:10 pm | permalink |
Heh – Farmer does look good.
And I was thinking this was a menage-a-trois-post.
(Now I have to get my brain from youknowhere, and confess to the priest on Sunday).
Posted by Rosie on June 27, 2011 at 1:30 pm | permalink |
I will only say that I am similar in many ways to Melissa, to a large extent I derive my feelings of self-worth and happiness from the attention & affection of men.
I have to confess that while I don't set out to fall for other my friends' husbands, it's happened to me a few times. Most of the time the attraction is mutual. So far only one or two wives have found about our flings. I just can't help myself, even though I know it's wrong. And I usually hate myself afterwards. But I can't stop.
I would give Melissa the boot. She needs to get on with her life, and her presence can only drive a wedge between you and the farmer, even if unintentionally.
Posted by Jana R on June 27, 2011 at 1:37 pm | permalink |
Saying "I can't help myself" is a lie and a cop-out. Cheating is a conscious choice.
I've been on both sides (not proud of this). I've been cheated on and I've cheated. It's a personality deficit that if allowed to go unchecked will not only ruin the lives of those you cheated on, but also your own sorry-ass life. Get help, find out what it is that has you feel so poorly about yourself.
Best of luck to you . . . truly.
Posted by Beach Mama on June 27, 2011 at 4:19 pm | permalink |
The first red flag I heard about Melissa, she's a stereotypical bludger. I have seen and experienced my fair share of them. You seem to believe she was making hundreds of thousands of dollars as an investment banker? Doubt it. More likely she was the nanny sleeping with the daddy in Italy, thats why she was sent packing. Her immaturity with work and farm animals is what one would expect from a millenium upbringing. The farmer "doesn't know anything about horses" because he saw the writing on the wall and didn't want to get stuck holding the responsibility. The term longe is not spelled lunge. Thats one of the things you want to avoid, a lunging horse will hurt you. I think Melissa will say anything to get what she wants at the moment no matter the expense and inconvenience to her hosts(what parasites attach to). As for the farmers parents disinheriting him, they would have thought of some other reason if you hadn't come along. Parents who love their kids don't pull the inheritance card. If they were not trying to control him they could always set up a trust so you couldn't palimony him out of his property. Inheritance is not usually considered community property. It seems like you are putting thoughts in writing and learning from having them stare back at you. It's a very effective method. You might try learning about the subconscious and how you manifest what happens in life. When you utilize thought, word and deed you can acconplish almost anything, even setting up the scenario for the farmer to sleep with your houseguest/girlfriend.
Posted by Virginia on June 27, 2011 at 1:59 pm | permalink |
I like this comment. I'm fixing the word longe. Thanks. And I think you have good insight, even though it's sort of hard to hear. I love the blog because of stuff like this.
Penelope
Posted by Penelope Trunk on June 27, 2011 at 3:10 pm | permalink |
Up until I read this comment I thought maybe (had wondered before) if you had a kind of bi-crush on Melissa and were projecting it. But given you found this one insightful. I think your instincts are going off. Good luck with it.
Posted by Shandra on June 27, 2011 at 7:47 pm | permalink |
My gut instinct tells me this commenter may be right.
Posted by Susan Tiner on June 29, 2011 at 11:35 am | permalink |
I meant the commenter with the theory about why she was sent packing from Italy, not the one about your possible bi crush.
Posted by Susan Tiner on June 29, 2011 at 11:38 am | permalink |
I agree. She does act like a bludger.
Posted by Jim C. on June 27, 2011 at 4:19 pm | permalink |
RE: Cheating – I've never cheated on anyone in the 20 years I've been dating even when there were very blatant invitations. I've been cheated on plenty and am miserably unhappy with my lack of a sex life and lack of partnership. Having been through quite a bit of scenarios related to relationships and infidelity, I can say this – there are overall sex differences in desires in relationships. Men want lots of sex with ideally young and enthusiastic women. They also want an honest, lifelong relationship with a partner they really trust. Women really want an honest, lifelong commited relationship with a partner of high status who will provide for them. They also occasionally want some sex. I say that with great respect for other men who have their urges under control and the few but precious really horny women out there. It's a statics game. Fundamentally, the way it's set up is rigged against both sexes – nobody can ever be quite happy. From a man's perspective, the ideal woman would be someone who he can live and prosper with for the rest of his life but who actively encourages and creates opportunities to have fun but short term encounters to keep him happy.
Posted by Someone on June 27, 2011 at 2:16 pm | permalink |
I think "Someone" nailed it.(no pun intended). I'm the same age as Melissa and scared out of my mind. He's right. It seems there is no way to reach a happy medium or for each person in a relationship to "win." Men want the young, enthusiastic partner and women want the emotional partner/financial provider. This strikes a precarious balance that never holds up. It seems like two magnets forced together, that, when left untended for even just a moment, will be pushed apart towards a better match. And women have so much more to lose. The most desirable category is 18 – 25/26. Then 27/28 is still ok but not ideal for men, and 29 – 32/33 is the final frontier. After that most women are seen as worthless in the eyes of men.
Posted by Spooked on June 28, 2011 at 9:28 am | permalink |
That's a bit exaggerated.
True, if you are a man intending to start a family then a forty year old woman is a bad bet. If you are looking for a roll in the hay, I'm not sure where the limits would be – I suspect the upper age limit just keeps going up, while the lower age limit doesn't move all that much – I've seen plenty of women in their fifties that would be enjoyable if I were single – and I've already had my kids.
The pickings might not be as easy, but I'm sure they are by no means gone.
Posted by Jens Fiederer on June 28, 2011 at 9:44 am | permalink |
@Spooked – Hm
You sound wonderful… let me know if you are ever around Seattle.
That said, the "worthless" part is not true. Men are desiring younger enthusiastic partners. They also want "the one" who really gets them, is interesting to be with and could be in their life for the rest of it.
There is the weird bit about the idea that women have an earlier expiry date then men. I don'tthink that's true; while from a men's perspective, I always thought less of men dating younger women, if you want children and need some time to establish the relationship, 30 is an upper limit of sorts. At the same time, you don't want to be in your seventies when your kids graduate.
I think the problem is that once you realize that you're in your thirties and you want the family and the kids, you're pretty much screwed.
Posted by Someone on July 9, 2011 at 1:53 am | permalink |
Yes, I am one of those non-neurotypical precious horny women who is happily coupled with a rare male who has absolute self control. But in my experience, they are not so rare. Every man I have ever been with has been faithful to a fault.
Posted by someone else on July 7, 2011 at 2:59 am | permalink |
The farmer is saving everyone else in that household from homelessness and probable starvation. Heck of a guy.
Posted by Brad on June 27, 2011 at 2:19 pm | permalink |
Please provide Melissa's blog address; I would like to compare and contrast yours, hers, and the Farmer's.
I agree with you about the real reasons he was disinherited.
But don't ever forget, as a man, he is not immune completely from infidelity. I base this on experience as well as numerous studies. It is only a matter, for Melissa, of finding the perfect combination for his specific lock.
You would do her a favor to give her the boot sooner rather than later.
Posted by Diana on June 27, 2011 at 3:01 pm | permalink |
The cheerleader type? I think you're sort of stuck in the past–have you seen what cheerleaders do?
Melissa is, as they say in Texas, all hat and no cattle. I don't think you need a side-kick.
Posted by Belinda Gomez on June 27, 2011 at 3:13 pm | permalink |
"You are probably wondering if I think about Melissa having an affair with the Farmer."
Not once. Is that weird?
Posted by KateNonymous on June 27, 2011 at 3:27 pm | permalink |
I've been there . . . all over the place and I can tell you fretting and worrying about your partner cheating is not only a waste of time it's surely a way to set it up to happen.
It's not about the farmer and it's not about Melissa . . . it's about you Penelope. There's something inside of you that's feels 'less than'. I'm not a shrink so don't take my word for it but get some guidance on this because if you don't it will eat you up.
I am married to a gorgeous, younger man (2nd marriage) who adores me. Women are always hitting on him . . . women 1/2 his age. He is VERY flattered and enjoys the attention. I don't fret about him cheating on me. I love him and I love him the way he likes and works for our relationship. As long as he feels valued and wanted by me it's unlikely he'll stray elsewhere. Of course there are other factors but I believe these are the most important.
What do the guys think?
Posted by Beach Mama on June 27, 2011 at 4:11 pm | permalink |
It's not about the Farmer, and it's not about Melissa, but it could be after the questions.
Penelope,
Google "question-behavior link." There's good research that if people have a little bit of interest in something, asking them about that topic increases their interest in it a lot. "Will you buy a car?" makes people more likely to buy a car, even months later, than not having been asked that question.
There's a controversial and intriguing side to this research. When polling teenagers and asking, "Will you do drugs in the next three months?" the simple poll may increase their likelihood of doing drugs.
So asking friends, "Will you go to the gym this week?" could be helpful. But asking friends, "Will you sit at home and feel sorry for yourself?" may not be.
As an aside, it can be useful to think about what questions we're asking our kids.
It's a little ironic – you have these thoughts in your head, and perhaps you think speaking about them will make things better. Yes, it might in your head, but it might not to the others around you.
Imagine if the witches in Macbeth instead of hailing him as Thane of Cawdor and future king… if they had instead asked, "Will you be Thane of Cawdor? Will you be the future king?" Perhaps the result would have been the same.
Posted by questions info on June 28, 2011 at 2:41 am | permalink |
From the perspective of a stranger:
Melissa gets too much from your friendship to lose it over a one-time sexual encounter with the Farmer. I doubt she is interested in spending the rest of her life on the farm.
And the Farmer is just plain not That Kind of Man.
Posted by Jules on June 27, 2011 at 5:42 pm | permalink |
Today, I looked at my fingers in detail for the first time. I've always known I had large hands for a woman. This came in handy when learning piano and playing video games. Today was the first day I noticed that my ring finger is longer than my index finger. It is such a slight difference that from a distance, you might actually think my index finger is the longer. The truth is only evident when I place my hand flat on a surface. Then, you will see that my ring finger is about 1-2mm longer. Strangely, this gives me added confidence to my new-found confidence that has been steadily growing over the past year.
Dear Penelope! I guess this is a thanks, an I'm sorry, and a promise. Thanks, because I know that reading this blog over the past year has changed me and my thinking in many ways for the better. I'm sorry, because the last comment I made was definitely idiotic in the extreme (blame it on the testosterone!). And a promise – I promise to heretofore, recommend your blog. In fact, I've already down this – twice in the past week and one of these was to a friend who thinks she has AS.
Posted by Rachel on June 27, 2011 at 5:52 pm | permalink |
There are studies out there that say even men happy in their marriages and relationships cheat. Also, a lot of cheating does happen because of convenience and proximity. A lot of cheating is not intentional and start out as "just friends". You can believe that your husband won't cheat and he can believe it himself and then he can surprise you and himself.
Cheating like divorce seems to be more and more of a common occurrence in relationships. I think it's hard to come up with a strategy to deal with it until it happens because there can be so many different reasons as to why it happened.
I've actually never read statistics on female friendships or even male friendships that were ruined because one of them had an affair with the other's partner. That might be interesting because it is a common thing to hear the the affair was with the best friend or at least someone in the circle of friends.
Posted by it happened on June 27, 2011 at 6:33 pm | permalink |
Now that you've put the idea of cheating into the head of everybody who lives with you won't have to be surprised when they live up to your expectations and do so.
If they have any sense they'll find someone off the farm so they can avoid your writing it all up on your blog.
Posted by GingerR on June 27, 2011 at 6:56 pm | permalink |
When you did your research on cheaters, did you check out AskMen.com? I get an email from them every week now thanks to your heads up about them in some of your previous posts. They have a lot of good articles including ones on cheaters so I'll link it here – http://www.askmen.com/search/?q=cheaters&sitesearch=askmen.com .
#3. Assuming everyone is honest is a better way to live. – is the most important bullet point in my opinion and well said. I make it a point to give someone else the benefit of the doubt whenever possible. It works for me. So my advice for you is to continue to work on #3 even though you already know that.
Posted by Mark W. on June 27, 2011 at 7:54 pm | permalink |
For all the "kick Melissa out" camp, I can't believe one person hasn't bothered to note the obvious: Penelope "puts up with" Melissa because Melissa's company appears to make her happier and calmer. Penelope wrote often of her conflict with the Farmer before Melissa was on the scene, and it seems like Melissa's presence legitimately keeps Penelope occupied and happy, and actually HELPS her relationship with the Farmer. Before the current arrangement, she wrote of how much she enjoyed having Melissa visit and how much she missed her after Melissa had gone.
Maybe all this evidence is a coincidence, but it seems to me like if Melissa had nothing to offer, then Penelope wouldn't have asked her back and the Farmer would've expressed objections to the arrangement by now.
Posted by Jules on June 27, 2011 at 8:18 pm | permalink |
Yeah. Thanks for saying this. Of course I think Melissa gives a lot to my family. People talk about work/life balance so casually – like we are all trying to balance how we spend our time and energy. But it's bigger than just work and not work. It's each person, each situation. We weigh everything to figure out is our life better or worse. And, if we are lucky, we have a lot of control to rejigger things when they are off kilter. But it's not like any of us is all that great at it. I mean, find me one person who thinks they have the whole how-should -i-spend-my-energy all worked out. It's hard.
I read these comments and I get a lot of insight about how to think about the situation. There's an article in Fast Company about how we are not doing time management anymore, we are doing energy management. This post confirms that to me — that our biggest dilemmas in our lives are about how to spend our energy. What's worth it.
Penelope
Posted by Penelope Trunk on June 27, 2011 at 10:35 pm | permalink |
Penelope, please do a post on energy vs. time management. This is a crucial distinction for me as I've aged.
Posted by Jacq on June 29, 2011 at 8:41 am | permalink |
"You are probably wondering if I think about Melissa having an affair with the Farmer."
Umm, no.
Posted by Cathy on June 27, 2011 at 8:39 pm | permalink |
P-I don't want to write anything hurtful but I think these people are correct. I would LOVE to think that the utopia you have created is possible…but its not. I am not placing the blame on anyone in this situation. I don't care what anyone's deep thoughts are, it's been proven that situations like this just don't work. I mean, look at the 60's! They thought they had it but they found out that they didn't. As far as Melissa or your man's thought process, they could be innocent and not thinking anything but the fact of the matter is that this type of situation blows up sooner or later not matter what! Melissa is young, this is a good thing for her…something to put on her resume but she has experienced everything she needs to in the "outback" of WI. Believe me, I live in here (the country, so that means not Madison)–they only way you can be happy in the country for the long term is if you feel a calling for it or you have known nothing else and feel like…you are meant to stay in that same situation. I like you a ton, although I understand that you exaggerate a lot for this blog. P, from a person who thrives with a simple life: I read your blog hoping that things work out with the farmer because I know it's a good life and everyone deserves to be happy.
Posted by Elisabeth on June 27, 2011 at 10:04 pm | permalink |
I can't help but think that having a non-family member living within a family for an extended period of time (no matter how much the non-member may be loved) is going to cause stress to that family. I know that I couldn't do it. I'm not saying kick her out, but based on this post, maybe a bit of distance might be needed. I have found your recent posts to be a bit off. Full of nervous tension or something. I don't know. I wondered if M was getting on your nerves. And then I read this post. No one wants to worry about who is or isn't a cheater in their home. And no one wants to fear their life becoming a Beckett play. As awful/awkward as it may be, my thought (for what it's worth) is that you may want to listen to your gut on this one and do what's best for your family.
Posted by JLD on June 27, 2011 at 10:23 pm | permalink |
I'm wondering – is Melissa depressed? She reminds me of me after college when I wasn't sure what was next and wanted to spend most of the day with my head under the covers. Or me some days in my adult life when I don't know how to make what's coming something that I care about. Could you be sensing a need in her that you might wish you could fill and you're thinking: well – there's always the farmer to do the dirty work!
Overall though – I'm with Jules: While it seems like there'd be a juicy story here: attractive young girl comes to stay with older farmer man and lures him away from his new wife – we know too much about these characters for their motivations to fit into the prefabricated plot. What would Melissa possibly gain from taking the story in this direction and what would she have that would entice the farmer so much that he'd follow? Some stories are just about people who mess their lives up for fun, but you guys are all thoughtful people who, while aware of reality show possibilities, are concerned more with maintaining integrity in your lives together.
Posted by emily on June 27, 2011 at 11:10 pm | permalink |
Drama.
Too much can be a real headache. I hope that your kids are not picking up on all of this…sexual tension. Kids like stability.
Breathing. It is an amazing thing to do to "turn the page" when the mind is ruminating on one thing over and over. Breath in count to 4 breath out…not so easy over and over – but it sure can calm the mind.
Drama…asking your husband about your best friend…that – is drama.
Identifying a cheater – that is negative drama.
Let it go. Think Positive Thoughts.
Change your Habits and you will change the world.
Peace be with you.
Posted by e on June 28, 2011 at 1:20 am | permalink |
more pictures of melissa.
will help bring in male readers.
Posted by romeo maldino on June 28, 2011 at 4:03 am | permalink |
also, i am sure you love obsessing about your husband cheating, cause it creates drama in your head, and chicks need constant drama, but in case you want to get out of that cycle, do you know about huna philosophy?
there is this phrase:
"energy flows where attention goes"
combine that with the eastern philosophy concept of non-resistance, and the answer is:
don't fight the idea of melissa sleeping with the farmer. just accept it. and move on.
hmm.
not sure that will work.
Posted by romeo maldino on June 28, 2011 at 4:05 am | permalink |
When men "cheat" they are usually giving in to proximity — which Penelope has already pointed out.
Proximity pushes men in that direction in two ways.
One is looking. When men see an attractive woman, there are changes in the brain. Women who are not lesbian or bisexual do not have such noticeable changes, or activation, in their brains, as men have.
The second push comes from physical chemistry in the form of pheromones. If you don't know anything about pheromones, then . . . get an education, for Pete's sake!
Pheromones fill the air like invisible perfume. Men are susceptible.
To say that a man who responds to seeing an attractive woman who is nearby all the time, and who is sending out pheromones (invisible or not) all the time — to say that that man is "cheating" if he follows Nature's instructions?
Well, saying that is just using all the wrong words.
Posted by getitright on June 28, 2011 at 4:19 am | permalink |
Look after those horses, or I'm siccing fuglyhorseoftheday.com. on you. Seriously. I am seriously concerned about their future and their welfare with such noobs "training" and caring for them in a desultory fashion.
Posted by Helen on June 28, 2011 at 4:33 am | permalink |
I've kept looking for a comment saying "that's a little horse" when I think I saw a mention of a pony. So I looked up pony and see a pony is officially a small horse measuring 14.2 hands or less. Does Melissa have a pony? The comments about the head gear is good advice, get better protection. OTOH she will have a shorter distance to fall from a pony.
My first thought was this was a developed topic to generate comments then I thought nope. If I were Melissa I would be upset however I suspect you told Melissa you were going to write on this topic beforehand. Did you discuss it with the farmer?
When are you going to try and set Melissa up with a local farmer? A C cup eh…
I saw Melissa's blog, some nice images from Asia.
Posted by Carl on June 28, 2011 at 6:13 am | permalink |
Yeah, they are ponies. I'm not a person who does ponies and horses so I don't know the difference.
Welsh ponies.
Penelope
Posted by Penelope Trunk on June 28, 2011 at 1:56 pm | permalink |
According to another blog post, you stated that you had sex with your ex-husband (while you were married) a handful of times in 6 years.
Remember that women marry for exclusivity of sex, emotional connection, etc. Men marry for ease of access to sex and frequency, as well as emotional connection, etc. Women feel cheated when exclusivity is violated. (Men do too). Men feel most cheated when frequency of sex or ease of access is violated. That is true whether or not society deems this to be "cheating".
You cheated on your former husband by not "putting out" during your marriage. Ask any married man who gets laid less than once a week if he feels cheated. Ask your ex. You'll see.
Posted by Joginderpal Shivarama on June 28, 2011 at 7:52 am | permalink |
This x1000. I don't understand why women stop sleeping with their husbands and then wonder why they cheat. If you stop sleeping with your husband, he'll stray. If he doesn't, he's a saint and you're lucky to have him.
Posted by Mandry on June 28, 2011 at 9:02 am | permalink |
Good point on this one.
As long as he gets sex every day from YOU, he is much less likely to diversify. Vanity alone requires a man to be at the top of his performance when initiating a new lover (unless alcohol is involved).
Before I got married, I let my wife know that monogamy only meant that she got right of first refusal.
Posted by Jens Fiederer on June 28, 2011 at 9:17 am | permalink |
I don't need sex every day. What bugs me is when the "dry spells" are counted in months, not weeks. Three times we have gone through 18 months with no sex. I'd be happy with good sex once or twice a week.
Another thing that gets me down is when I try to initiate and get shot down again and again and again and again. We've been married almost 10 years and I've been shot down 1,000+ times. I stopped asking. Nobody likes to be rejected constantly. Especially when it's by your spouse.
Posted by Mandry on June 28, 2011 at 9:55 am | permalink |
I can't believe I'm responding to this comment. I have rules for myself about what sort of comment I'll respond to, and I'm breaking the rules right now. But… it's so shallow to assume that I was refusing to have sex for six years. There are a million scenarios that create a sexless marriage. The scenario you have thought of is just one in a million. And you probably know me well enough from the blog to know it's not a scenario I'd be involved in.
Penelope
Posted by Penelope Trunk on June 28, 2011 at 1:54 pm | permalink |
This post, along with all of the other writings on cheating, has me scared out of my mind. I am young and exceptionally attractive (I'm not trying to be vain, I just am). but I've always been used as an object and can never keep a man. Ironically, I always end up pushing men closer to other women. I think men view some women as "safe" and others as a "reach." They sense the power differential (in other words, they know I could cheat too because I'm going looking) and, combined with the fact that I'm incredibly ambitious and live in the midwest where men don't know how to handle that, I get no one.
My plan is to leave the midwest as soon as possible and either 1.) marry my 51 year old Brazilian boyfriend to reduce the chances of being cheated on 2.) Get a career where I make enough money to provide comfortably for myself until the day I die 3.) If I do get married, have all girls and 4.) When/if my husband bangs someone younger and hotter and I'm left all alone, go volunteer to rock babies in a Russian orphanage or help the poor in Brazil.
I was recently in a relationship with a man who did not tell me he was married. When I found out he said the marriage was "on the verge of ending." I got out of that situation and would NEVER do something like that again. No kids, the woman was older, uglier, more stupid, and less ambitious than me, but I think the guy likes her precisely for that reason: she's easy to hold down, adores him and treats him like the "big man" he's not since her frame of reference is so small, and is run around on.
I'm afraid there's no way to win.
Posted by Spooked on June 28, 2011 at 9:38 am | permalink |
I meant to say "easy to run around on" in the last paragraph.
Posted by Spooked on June 28, 2011 at 9:40 am | permalink |
Spooked,
Sounds like we've had very similar experiences and are in similar situations.
Only difference is if I marry my dude, I've accepted that I can't predict the future, but I'll be optimistic about our chances of staying happy together. However, I will take steps so that I will not be financially and emotionally ruined if the relationship falls apart.
-M
Posted by Missy on June 28, 2011 at 10:37 am | permalink |
Sounds like you are anticipating another bad marriage. Careful, it might become a habit.
Posted by Bill on June 28, 2011 at 10:41 am | permalink |
I see a lot of over-estimators and under-estimators in the workplace and it always ticks me off that the under-estimators are nearly always undervalued when they're the ones getting crap done and cleaning up after the over-estimators.
The problem is that it takes time and energy to realize their value, while it doesn't take any time or energy to be sucked into a good story. If you value a under-estimator they're loyal forever.
The farmer doesn't look like he'd cheat unless you leave so I think your plan of staying forever is a good one.
Posted by renae on June 28, 2011 at 11:04 am | permalink |
You have to understand that men look at women pretty much constantly. Every woman is evaluated by every man. Men are thinking about women (not necessarily sex with them, but women in a sexual way, deciding if they are attracted to them) multiple times a minute, all the waking day. If they are watching TV, they are looking at the women on TV. If they are working, then sex and/or women will cross their mind less, but still very routinely, in between thinking about the work or whatever else is on his mind. This thinking doesn't make him a cheater. . .it makes him a man.
Posted by Michael Fontaine on June 28, 2011 at 12:08 pm | permalink |
"You are probably wondering if I think about Melissa having an affair with the Farmer."
This never once occurred to me. Given what the Farmer puts up with to be with you, why would you even think this? Wow.
Posted by Tzipporah on June 28, 2011 at 12:18 pm | permalink |
"For starters, he has the problem that kids obviously don't see value in what he is teaching."
Actually, that's not a problem for him, it's a problem for college recruiters. The students are not his boss, or even his customer – the administration of his university is. What they want doesn't matter at all, except insofar as it impacts what his boss (the admin) wants from him.
Posted by Tzipporah on June 28, 2011 at 12:20 pm | permalink |
Worrying about cheating is plain silly. You have no control over it – before, during or after. No, that's wrong – you can make it more likely to happen if you obsess about it, than if you don't think about it. You can't make it less likely – other than choosing your spouse and/or friends wisely.
How come that hot women are worried about their men cheating on them with someone who is also hot? While regular-looking women are either not particularly concerned, or just do a better job concentrating on other things.
Statistics about how often other people cheat is pretty irrelevant in determining who likely this particular person is to cheat. Unless this person is one of these people, is friends with or works closely with the people in the statistics. Which farmer is not, since he is not an investment banker, does not aspire to be one, and does not deliver produce to wherever investment bankers hang out.
Posted by Jane on June 28, 2011 at 1:10 pm | permalink |
Actually, no, I don't think the farmer will have an affair with Melissa.
I kind of think you will.
Posted by Elle on June 29, 2011 at 4:05 am | permalink |
I read through all the comments, and finally! Elle says what's on my mind. I think this whole thing is about you and Melissa not the farmer and Melissa.
Posted by Donna on June 29, 2011 at 6:08 am | permalink |
My ring finger is longer. I get along well in an all male office and I think I am likely to cheat. I don't do it, but it's something I have struggled with on more than one occasion. I try to end the relationship as soon as I start struggling with it because I've always seen it as a sign the relationship is just not working and leaving doesn't make me feel bad about myself the way cheating would.
Posted by Brooke Farmer on June 29, 2011 at 11:49 am | permalink |
Hi Penelope,
Great blog, and an interesting post. Most of the comments have done a good job exploring your questions about what does and does not cause someone to become a cheater, so I am not going to jump into those waters.
I wanted to comment from the perspective of a lifelong horse person who has seen many bad wrecks and bad habits developed in horses when a young/green animal is paired up with a rider who is not yet at the skill level needed to effectively train the animal. Assuming you want both Melissa and her new steed's future together to go smoothly, I would humbly suggest that you enlist the help of a competent, qualified trainer to get them both on the right path to a happy relationship. Working with horses requires learning an entirely new language and relational mentality. If Melissa takes the time to develop the riding and handling skills that she needs, the fruits gleaned from a happy horse/human partnership can inform all aspects of her life in positive ways.
And the commenter who mentioned the bicycle helmet was spot on – Melissa needs a ASTM/SEI certified riding helmet. Take it from someone who has been tossed, quite literally, on her head. You want the right protection when those inevitable accidents happen. Good luck to you both!
Posted by nychm on June 29, 2011 at 1:06 pm | permalink |
Didn't you get the idea that Melissa didn't know how to deal with horses when she walked up to the stable in a bike helmet?
Posted by terri on June 29, 2011 at 1:20 pm | permalink |
"You are probably wondering if I think about Melissa having an affair with the Farmer.
I do. I think about it all the time."
Well, you Lefties think that all this morality stuff is silly, so I'd say it's likely at some point.
Posted by Alan on June 30, 2011 at 9:23 am | permalink |
Firstly, you know the heart of the man you're with, is he self-seeking or self-less with you? that'll give you a strong pointer as to whether he would cheat. As far as I can tell he seems like a solid character. Yes there's always the moment of weakness when any of us can fail, but that's more about avoiding obvious temptations.
Love is hard to do without trust, trust makes us vulnerable, Love is worth the risk.
I made it a policy not to sacrifice the present to a fear of something that may never happen. If (big if) it happens then deal with it then – it has done and continues to work for me.
Posted by Tony on June 30, 2011 at 5:53 pm | permalink |
Men who have all of their needs met by their wife are extremely unlikely to cheat.
Men with strong self esteem, who're secure in themselves, are also less likely to cheat.
It's also possible for men to divide sex from love, and for them to cheat on someone they love (see above) but this is rare.
Women who pay attention to their marriage and who take care of their appearance are unlikely to be betrayed.
Posted by drewmbah on July 1, 2011 at 4:30 pm | permalink |
As a married man who refuses to cheat,a young woman with a "hot" body is not the best person to keep in your own home with a husband. You seem fully aware of how attention-getting she looks to men, and you took some good pictures to prove it. As a married man it would be pleasant to have Melissa around, but also at least slightly tormenting. I guess if you wanted to get the Farmer at least a little worked up it's a good thing, but in the interest of peacefulness, not the wise way to go.
Posted by Geoff on July 4, 2011 at 10:59 am | permalink |
You just need to trust the Farmer and Melissa and get those negative thoughts out as you might attract bad vibes that would make your imaginations come true.
Posted by Jean Naquila on July 4, 2011 at 11:15 pm | permalink |
Cheating is wrong. There is no denying that. Nonetheless, a cheater always has a reason to cheat. So, if your partner is cheating, then give it a thought. Where are you going wrong? If there is any mistake at your end, you can consider working it out. If you don't see anything grave enough to drive him into the bed with another, then leave him. Drop him like a hot potato and don't blame yourself for it at all. This is where I sign off!! Happy investigating!!
Posted by Hanoi Hotels on July 6, 2011 at 3:43 am | permalink |
Hmm … that ring finger thingey is interesting, but I've been a truck driver for 23 years in an almost all-male (and extremely chauvinistic) profession. There are more women now-a-days, but still not many. I've more than stood my ground and even had men back down. My ring finger is a good 1/2 inch shorter than my middle finger … but then again, I am 5'11" and can project my voice. Love your blog!
Posted by Rachel on July 8, 2011 at 10:21 am | permalink |
And by the way, Geoff is right. Having a hottie like Melissa around the house is one more instance of the self-destructive behavior that people engage in. It's fun and exciting to tempt fate but you'd be better off spending your paycheck on lottery tickets. At least in that case when lightning strikes it will be a good thing.
Love you.
Posted by Alan on July 9, 2011 at 8:51 am | permalink |
HI, Love You. Being a women, I now felt that index finger in the women are shorter than men. Woh, I like your blog.Its fun to have affairs with men like farmers.
perfect home based business
Posted by naureen on July 10, 2011 at 5:56 am | permalink |
Woh, I like your post. It is so interested like farmer has close relations with the woomen.
Mlm Info
Posted by naureen on July 10, 2011 at 5:59 am | permalink |
Sounds like it is time for Melissa to take a vacation…away from the Farmer. People that Cheat either don't know that they will cheat or will lie about it. You can ask Melissa and the Farmer all day long every day, but that will not stop it from happening. If the Farmer is the only game in town for Melissa and Melissa provides something that you do not to the Farmer, the conditions of cheating increase, especially as Melissa and the Farmer do more things together, such as the Horses. I believe that the Farmer will be the less likely to cheat, but cheating is rarely about logic, its about opportunity. Remove the opportunity and cheating rates fall to about zero.
Posted by Dennis on July 15, 2011 at 8:17 am | permalink |
You're in farm country. Farm families help out and let lost friends stay on while they find themselves. It's hard for others to relate to but when you have all this space what's one more mouth as long as they contribute in some way. On a farm you have all these animals already and everything to accommodate them. Farmers are also experts at "trying" new farm-ish things so a horse venture, not really all that big of a deal.
Farm families have weird rules when you look at the family tree and disinheriting over control issues is so common I can't begin to tell you how many of my friends have walked away from the family farm as a result. It's still so messed up but I bet even if you asked the Farmer he's probably not all that surprised it happened. My sister and I are the only two grandkids. We both walked away from a four-generation family farm and bought our own farms. No we don't farm together. No we don't know what will happen with the family farm and yes on most days we are JUST fine with it. There are days you get nostalgic, nobodies that perfect. Oh and no we didn't marry other farmers in-case the Farmer ask.
So will your live in friend have an affair with your spouse? Why not ask? I see NOTHING wrong with that and the whole notion of, "Did I give them the idea?" to me it is just silly. Let's hypothesis that she tries something, would he even consider following through with it? Look at that man. He's more complicated than his sexual needs and probably why you guys broke up so much but then figured it all out and got "married".
He's complex, he's patient, and he cares about you. Heck he cares about Melissa so why would he let her reduce herself to a cheat and reunion a friendship I am sure he realizes is good for both of you. To me this is no different than him considering your boys, his boys and being just fine with your ex coming out to the farm on Sunday's. He's secure and that makes all the difference.
BTW my ring finger is longer than my pointer finger, nope not a cheater hear but I do work in a male dominate field and have for my entire crazy complex career even attend a service academy. Never knew that before!
Posted by Kristi on July 19, 2011 at 1:51 pm | permalink |
I had to come back and find this blog today. Over the past few weeks, I have been helping a friend out by letting her and her young daughter stay with us. Guess I should have paid more attention to my gut instincts. The thought that something would happen between my husband and her crossed my mind…then it happened. I wish so badly now that I had simply addressed the issue when my alarm bells went off, instead of after the fact. I hope, for your sake P, that you have listened to your own instincts on this one…I can't even begin to tell you where I am at now, it hurts too bad and is too confusing.
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Posted by f on August 11, 2011 at 12:16 am | permalink |
What if you are working in fast food after college and can't get anything else, even thought you went to a tier 1 university and had a high gpa? BA in economics.
Posted by counter rotating saw on August 30, 2011 at 3:02 am | permalink |
I have been with my husband for 15 years, he used to try to rely on body language to try and work out if i was lying, he was a little paranoid. Now experience has taught him not to bother, it's a bit a waste of time. I guess you have to finely tune you ability to read body language to get it right. Fortunately he's given up and learnt to trust me and we have a happier marriage because of it!
Posted by Time server on October 4, 2011 at 2:10 pm | permalink |