I know that we have a bad economy, so bad that we have a not-yet-President who is running the country from the Chicago Hilton so that the markets don't implode while Bush gives pardons for cronies.
But can we just take a minute for a reality check? It's not really bad for people who are young. It's a part of the world you don't hear much about in mainstream media. Think about it. Most media is in NYC, and you don't make a lot of money as a writer, so most people who are writing in the tri-State area are married to bankers. Yes, this is a huge generalization, but it is a stereotype because it's true.
Two neighborhoods—Montclair, NJ, and Park Slope, NY—are the bastions of media elite married to banker elite. And it's a combustible moment there, demonstrated by how we get a lot of reporting about how sad it is for the bankers right now. Who are mostly middle aged.
And we get a lot of reporting about how sad it is for older people in the workforce because those are the people getting laid off. The baby boomers love to report about how much discrimination there is against them. And they have huge pulpits to report that from.
Of course, don't get me started. The baby boomers had a great run spending tons of money they didn't have and then bitching that the economic rug is pulled out from under them. But there is no mention that Gen X never even had a good run. How about reporting that?
But okay. This is not the point of my post. After all, if you write a Thanksgiving post, it must be upbeat and not grouchy. But also, I will not write a purely upbeat post because then I'd be in the league of all the people who are going to blog about how much they love their family and how great their family is—blah blah blah. And I should remind you you that it was none other than Tolstoy who said that all happy families are the same. And that is why you should never write about them.
But the adage that happiness is boring is true for everything. For example, it is true in the list of sex scenes that stink. (Thank you, Ben Cascnocha, for knowing I would love that link.) You need to have tension in a good sex scene, like maybe the guy can't get an erection and wants to slit his wrists. Or something less tense but still a little tense. Surely you can imagine.
Okay. So I can't be all good cheer or I would bore you. But I am doing my Thanksgiving post, so here: the niceness, the let's-all-feel-good thing, is that young people are doing fine in this economy and people should start reporting it.
The not-feeling-so-great thing is that, in the case of everyone but the young, the economy is only good for star performers. But really (and here is the part of the post you should skip if you want Thanksgiving bliss) I have been ranting and screaming for years that the best way to have a good life is to be a star performer at work because that gives you the most flexibility to get what you want out of life. Don't be a star performer for money. Be a star performer so that in an economy like this, you don't have to worry about a paycheck.
But—I know someone will ask—here is the evidence that things are fine for young people:
1. Jobs for low-level candidates are increasing. This data comes from a report from Beyond.com issued on November 14: In October 2008, jobs for candidates with 0-3 years of experience increased by 3.68% when compared to jobs posted in September 2008. This was the only category of jobs by experience level that did not decrease over the previous month.
2. There are plenty of entry-level jobs to be had. There is a backlog of entry-level jobs that have been going unfilled for years. Alan Schweyer of the Human Capital Institute said just three weeks ago, sitting next to me on a panel, that the unemployment rate for college grads has been at 0% for the past seven years. (ed. – Alan Schweyer has a great comment toward the bottom of the comments clarifying this statistic.) In the middle of 2008, Robert Half, a recruiting agency for accounting and finance, said that accounting firms have been so chronically understaffed that we'd have to have a five-year recession for them to catch up.
3. College grads are doing fine in today's market. On November 19, JobFox announced that, "Skilled professionals remain in demand despite the economic downturn. While the unemployment rate rose to 6.5 percent in October, the unemployment rate for professionals with college degrees remains manageable at 3.1 percent."
So I know what you're saying. If things are so great for young people, then why is Obama creating 2.5 million jobs from the Chicago Hilton? The answer is that unemployment is insanely high for older people: Yesterday, Fox News reported that the unemployment rate for people over 50 is nearing 50%.
I'm not saying things are great in the U.S. (Though I do love Obama.) What I'm saying is that young people shouldn't be thrown by the bad news that old people are pushing. Things are not that bad if you're beginning your career. Think big, ask a lot of the world, demand respect and fun and a high learning curve. You will annoy people, for sure, but young people annoy older people in a good economy too.









I live in NJ and recent college grads are being laid off. Current college seniors are having job offers recinded. Other recent college grads may not be unemployed but they are working the same jobs they had while in high school.
I don't know what's in your kool-aid. The job market for young college grads is horrible and has been for several years.
Posted by mimsey tove on 11/26/2008 at 04:12pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Please get an editor, dear. You do not need ten paragraphs to get to the point number one, and if it's not the point of your post then shut up about it!
Posted by Betty on 12/02/2008 at 12:12am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Since I'm still in college, this is a good thing to hear. In a little over a year, I'll be starting my career. In the field of public relations, there doesn't seem to be a lack of jobs, if you are good at what you do.
That's why I really love how you said, "Be a star performer so that in an economy like this, you don't have to worry about a paycheck."
If you are good at what you do, and just now entering the workforce, you should be able to find a job. With less experience, you're a lot cheaper and efficient than the people with 10 years experience, but aren't star performers.
Thanks for the post and have a good Thanksgiving.
Posted by Rachel Esterline on 11/26/2008 at 04:16pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Thanks for putting this into perspective. I happened to get layed off from my media job a few weeks ago. And I've seen a couple of my twenty-something friends go through it as well. Do you know why people are still looking for entry-level hires? I think it's because we will work for pennies and the older people getting layed off have bloated salaries.
Posted by Ms. Pixel on 11/26/2008 at 04:20pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Perhaps you got LAID off because you can't spell well.
Posted by janefen on 11/26/2008 at 04:50pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
That's so awesome! Thanks for pointing that out :)
Posted by Ms. Pixel on 2008-11-26 17:16:31 | (Comments wont nest below this level)
Bloated salaries? Experience does & performance does increase one's worth. I also ditto your lack of spelling acumen … are you one of the children left behind?
Posted by John Michael on 11/26/2008 at 11:19pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I'm a college senior as well, so this post is somewhat comforting. It's nice to see an optimistic perspective on the current economy and job market. However, I'm worried that it's going to get worse before it gets better – everything I'm reading about the economy indicates that this is only the beginning. What happens when thousands of new graduates are searching for jobs all spring? That's when I think the job market is going to get much more competitive and much tougher for young people…
Posted by Nisha Chittal on 11/26/2008 at 04:31pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I would say to people just out of school or nearly out… While this economy will soon be confirmed as the worst in 50 years; its usually a great thing to be young. And especially a great thing now. This is because, if you are young, you are likely not yet accustomed to things like high salaries, nice hotel rooms when traveling, wine bottles while eating, large retirement accounts, and healthy home equity balances.
When you have little to lose, you have everything to gain. Many of the people who became caught up in the 'fab life' of the last 15 years are going to have a difficult time adjusting to the new reality, for better or worse. But alas, That is Life!
-Greg
Posted by gregcnorca.aim. on 12/01/2008 at 02:38pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Amen about that Gen X statement by Penelope and by Gregcnorca. Gen X was required to get a credit card so they could survive for a while in their crappy job.
@PT: Good heavens. It seems like the moment you changed your blog format/style, you gained a bunch of trolls and haters. I mean, people usually made some rude comments towards you, but there are a lot of people just being in general snipey at you, at other commenters, at the world. And illogically so -attacking your use of a quote or someone's mispelling. Guess people aren't feeling the Thanksgiving vibe.
Posted by Lane on 2008-12-02 17:03:39 | (Comments wont nest below this level)
I'd like to tag on to your comment aboug GenX never getting our run. I'm a little bitter these days. I came on to the job market around the crash of 91, was barely getting on my feet in time to miss the dot com bubble (although I didn't lose anything there either) and had just been settling in getting ready for a bout of prosperity when it all fell apart. I've gone from 20+% equity in my house to upside down, watched my retirement savings go through the floor and may end up in bankruptcy if I lose my job now. (fingers crossed that I won't.)
It just seems as though GenX has timed everything wrong to really prosper. (Not that we had anything to say about it, but you know what I mean.) It wasn't GenX driving up real estate prices, but we're paying the price for the boomers get-rich-quick schemes.
My current hope is that most of us are positioned well enough in our careers to be relatively secure. Advanced enough to have things to offer, but not yet into middle management where might be trimmable.
Posted by Rebecca on 11/26/2008 at 04:31pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Again.. Narcissistic.. Self indulgent.. The relevancy to your readership needs to be taken into account, when you think it may be appropriate to deride the largest segment of society in the USA you should probably think again. I'm not a baby boomer, just at the tail-end (the older end) of GenX, but at least I attempt to show some deferential respect to those who've traveled the path before me..
I don't believe the young are thrown at all by what's occurring in the economy right now (here or around the world). They aren't invested into it yet and, for that, I am definitely jealous and they are definitely lucky.
Show some Thanksgiving compassion; that would have been a much more appropriate post.
Posted by funkright on 11/26/2008 at 04:32pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Oh quit being such a negative nancy :)
Posted by Ms. Pixel on 11/26/2008 at 04:41pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I'm a Boomer and the last thing our country needs right now is 'deferential respect.' That's crap. We need motivated, eager individuals willing to innovate and take risk – like Penelope and most BC readers. And guess what? It isn't about chronology. It's about can-do attitude and doing the footwork. Gen Y people who are making it aren't lucky – they're working their buns off and I say good for them, keep going!
Posted by Marsha Keeffer on 11/26/2008 at 05:10pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
"innovate and take risk…" oy.. you mean like those CDO's and CDS's.. There was no chronological inference, but the boomers, X's, and Y's didn't bring us to this point; we all did.. it's the cost of going to university, combined with that must have bigger house, driving the pimp'd out SUV, with little Missy bring dressed in baby D&G and Joey needing the latest toys to make himself happy..
Again, Narcissism nor Self indulgence will get us where we collectively need to go.. True leadership is what's needed, not vitriolic commentary about those who've come before or who (indeed) may follow. Don't be divisive, it leads to nothing good.
We are collectively here, right now, and we need to collectively find a remedy.
Posted by funkright on 2008-11-26 18:45:02 | (Comments wont nest below this level)
Are you kidding me? I'm a 25-year-old Brooklyn resident, about to graduate (next week!) from grad school without any job prospects in sight (and believe me, I am trying), and I have been thinking practically non-stop about this economy for the last few months – as have all of my friends and classmates.
The new crop of graduates from the Gen-Y set are movers and shakers. We are savvy, aware, and prepared to take the world by storm. Your Gen-X bitterness, by comparison, comes across as the same old tired song and dance. Fall in line or get out of the way.
Posted by Lindsey on 11/28/2008 at 12:49am | permalink | Reply to this comment
If you were savvy, you would have been job hunting long time ago instead of waiting 'til you graduated. Perhaps you're not as savvy as you think.
Posted by John Michael on 2008-11-28 07:26:50 | (Comments wont nest below this level)
John Michael –
I've been job-hunting since August. I've sent out over 200 resumes (each with an unique cover letter), and have taken 36 calls of inquiry, given 10 interviews and received four offers so far. I'm doing pretty great, percentage-wise, but I have yet to find the right fit in a place that pays me the NYC version of a living wage.
So thanks for your incredibly helpful response.
Posted by Lindsey on 2008-11-29 00:56:41 | (Comments wont nest below this level)
Thank GOD! I was beginning to wonder if there would be any glimmers of hope about the sagging economy and what that would mean to the 18-35 group. As someone who is currently looking for work, I'm glad to read a more positive spin.
I think, however, finding a job may take longer for younger people, but I don't think we'll be in the situation our Baby Boomer counterparts are in now.
Posted by Raven on 11/26/2008 at 04:34pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
The job market for recent college grads is horrible and has been for years. They maybe be employed but they are underemployed. You don't earn a 4 year degree to become a cashier.
Posted by Lola on 11/26/2008 at 04:51pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Amen. I graduated 5 years ago from a top 10 liberal arts college and a lot of my friends from school are still struggling to get a well paying job. Sure, they are working but they are not being paid a salary that reflects the hard work that they put in to get into a good college and to graduate from one. Most have caved and gone for law school or an MBA to try and get a leg up – and we all know what Penelope had said about those two options (not that I always agree with her). I left for Scandinavia and have a nice life and a very well paid job but I feel for my peers.
Posted by mariel on 11/27/2008 at 03:13am | permalink | Reply to this comment
thank our corporate america greedy executives who have shipped all the jobs to China / India / etc. so they can line their own pockets. We have to stop the 55,000 containers a day that ships deliver from there and start making things in the USA … the jobs will return then.
Posted by John Michael on 11/27/2008 at 11:14am | permalink | Reply to this comment
AWESOME, AWESOME, AWESOME job hunt post. It hit a lot of truths.
"The baby boomers had a great run spending tons of money they didn't have and then bitching that the economic rug is pulled out from under them. But there is no mention that Gen X never even had a good run."
SOOOOO true. I am a Generation Jones or Gen X depending on who is doing the stats, and have not lived nearly as well (and never will catch) either of my parents (who were war babies) and together they had one semester of college, while I have a MBA.
Also, the excess spending of W. is a major part of the problem we are now facing. The last 8 years should have seen balanced budgets, and now we need to spend to help the economy, and it is just going to add to the credit card that is way over limit that we all get to hand to our children and grand children. Thanks Boomers.
Posted by Jeff on 11/26/2008 at 05:19pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
It's NOT the Boomers, it's the greedy executives of Corporate America who have sold us out to the world.
Posted by John Michael on 11/27/2008 at 11:15am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Who do you think fills the C-suites of corporate America?
Posted by The Office Newb on 2008-11-27 11:35:08 | (Comments wont nest below this level)
I still get some of my news from the mainstream media. They are hard to avoid but more and more like a dull roar – kicking and screaming on the way out in my opinion. It's a transformation that's been in the works for a while now but their competition has steadily been gaining ground and is more influential than ever before. We need complete, accurate, and unbiased reporting from verifiable sources and not gatekeepers. I think more competition in the media marketplace with more available outlets will go a long ways towards achieving that result.
Thanks for passing along the "How not to write a sex scene" article link. I wouldn't have got that from the mainstream media.
Posted by Mark W. on 11/26/2008 at 05:42pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Thank you for the positive upswing heading into the long weekend! Graduated in May, and have been getting so many negative vibes re. the job market for new grads, feeling like my entry into the workforce couldnt' have come at a worse time etc etc. This gives me hope!
Posted by Simin on 11/26/2008 at 07:00pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
If the job market is so great for recent grads then how come it took me almost a year to find a full-time job? And why do I have friends who are still working at grocery stores and summer camps because they don't have enough "experience" in their fields but have to work somewhere to pay off their 100 grand in college loans?
Posted by Nicole on 11/26/2008 at 07:16pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Glad to get some outside perspective. I graduated 18 months ago and am now job hunting for the third time after one company went financially insolvent and the other laid off my group. It's nice to hear that there's work out there – thanks for giving hope in what often feels like a futile search!
Posted by Rachel on 11/26/2008 at 07:50pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Funny,
I'm a late baby boomer and I never noticed everyone having credit cards until Gen X began working. Almost all Gen Y owns a credit card and they use them regularly. Penelope's constant reminder to balance family and work is a good idea. Hopefully, Gen Y will achieve a better balance than us Bbers. But, we did work hard for what we earned.
Posted by ernie on 11/26/2008 at 08:53pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Sorry, but I don't fit your GenX model. Probably because I'm single and did some work overseas.
Yes, I got laid off, about a year ago, after about 10 years at the same company, but I've had enough in savings + options to make out very well, and take some time off to re-tool. Am I traveling? No. Family first.
Oh, and unlike most Boomers and Y-Folk, I have zero debt. Your comments about the Boomers racking up debt is spot on. At my so-called Boomer & Y friends are going crazy with their ARMs etc. Oh, and since GenY was raised by Boomers, why is it a big surprise that they inherit their fiscally bad habits? Your home is not an ATM. Repeat after me. What goes up like a rocket may come down like a ballistic missile. You *cannot* use computers to tweak fundamentals. Just look at the current economy.
Me? I'm waiting for this thing to bottom out. Then acquire some property, muni bonds, etc. We're no where near the end of this thing. Cash is king. *Hold on to it*.
Everyone should get 'back to basics'. As in *SAVE*. No really, have a savings rate, and when you jump jobs, work this into your salary equation. If you do *not* tumble the numbers for your cost of living, then you're in for a world of hurt.
Posted by Drunken Economist on 11/26/2008 at 10:17pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Cash is King until inflation goes crazy…
:)
Posted by David Rees on 12/03/2008 at 01:18am | permalink | Reply to this comment
What planet are you living on? In the real world, it is very bad. Sure, people aren´t starving, but the job market is bleak. This post, like many of your others, shows how out of touch with reality you are. Of course, I understand that your whole purpose is to right feel good articles for youngsters so they will get all excited about your next ¨Gen Y/Gen X/Boomer¨ rambling.
Get out in the real world instead of blogging. You obviously cant write that well. Perhaps some time out in the real world will help you get some sense of reality.
It is bad, and it´s going to get worse. There is so much toxic debt out there right now that you would be a fool to think hard times aren´t coming.
Posted by steve on 11/26/2008 at 10:44pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Oh, I almost forgot. Your ranting about the so called banker elite and what not, how the MSM is creating a more negative scenario than usual — blah, blah, blah — is about of equal par to your delusional blogs about Palin — How we should model ourselves after her. Seriously, you have no concept of why things are really bad right now. Such rantings are typical of the crazies on the extremes of the political spectrum. Seriously … how can you be so sure? I thought you were a so-called Generational Expert who had a failed IPO, and can´t even manage her family, toting advice to any idiot who will drink the kool-aid, no? Since when did you become an expert at finance and the economy — or the Job Market. I would be more inclinced to believe what you are saying, except you have no data to back it up. Further, since when were you just entering the work force. Oh, that´s right, your a middle-aged woman who proclaims she speaks for a generation or two that is younger than her. The only job you seem to have is that of a cult leader … creating terms and phrases for people who need to be told what to think and feel, and can´t live without having idiotic labels on everything.
Seriously, PT, the job market is very bad.
Posted by steve on 11/26/2008 at 10:53pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Wow – you really know how to alienate part of your readers (yahoo deja vu?). Time to do a little year end house keeping by removing subscriptions to worthless blogs. I will however, leave you with a few questions…
- How, exactly, is Obama creating 2.5 million jobs from the Hilton? Are you so punch drunk on the kool-aid to believe that simple words can change the economy?
- What is the benefit of creating class or age warfare between baby boomers and twenty something’s? Should we be celebrating the fact that the economy is creating low paying jobs vs. higher level opportunities? The belief that we live in a zero sum economy is absurd. Why does someone have to lose for you to win?
- How exactly is Obama running the country from his beloved Hilton? Through meaningless press conferences from a media that refuses to ask tough questions?
BTW – I am not a baby boomer. I am 29, college educated, and employed (for now).
Posted by Blake on 11/26/2008 at 10:55pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I love Obama, too. Thanks for the positivity about the economy. People love to complain about things that are out of their control. Ignore the negative things you can't control, appreciate the positive (an inspiring president), and spend your time thinking about about what you CAN do.
Posted by Sofia on 11/26/2008 at 11:10pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Where? Where are they entry level jobs of which you speak? I have been searching since I've graduated from college and found NOTHING!
Posted by Nashay on 11/27/2008 at 01:09am | permalink | Reply to this comment
I think that there are a lot of negative comments that have been left here and not in an intelligent respectful disagreement kind of way. I would like to think that the readers of Penelope's Blog are more mature than these comments suggest. Also, there are far too many kool-aid references here.
My feedback on the post:
I like how the post meandered. I think it was refreshing.
I am (delusionally) looking to switch jobs right now and it has definately been pretty tough to both find opportunities and to get very far in the recruitment process. Thanks for reiterating that we should "Think big, ask a lot of the world, demand repect and fun and a high learning curve."
Posted by Jennifer Ellis on 11/27/2008 at 02:09am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Your snide remark about how happy families are boring sounds very bitter. You should know better than others how difficult this is. It is an extraordinary feat to make make and maintain a happy family. Many people enjoy writing and reading about experiences and approaches in this area. Perhaps your work life balance is out of kilter since you don't think this is worthy of blogging about.
Go ahead and encourage the younger generation to stick their head in the sand about the current financial crisis and you will ensure they waste all that money they (or more likely their parents) have invested in their education.
Posted by LaDawn on 11/27/2008 at 05:05am | permalink | Reply to this comment
I was really feeling guilty about avoiding (so far) the ceremonial blog post about Thanksgiving until I read that part about Tolstoy. The truth is – this is what I should write on my blog and not in the comment section of yours But, if I write it on my blog, everyone at church will give me THAT look, touch my arm and ask that all-important question, "ARE YOU OK?" So here it is.
I dread Thanksgiving.
Every year, it's the same darn thing. My ex husband and I are on very friend terms. (It's been 10 years.) I wish we fought during the holidays so we didn't always have to "share" her and split the day. WE ALWAYS SPLIT THE DAY. Nobody travels so we can SPLIT THE DAY. We're soooooo cheery.
Sometimes, I just want her all to myself, but then, I'd have to give up Christmas. We split that day, too. And, then – during the half day I do have her, oft-meanie in law has to make sideways remark about her emerging, during which I want to burn him/her in the eye with a turkey drumstick. But, I'm nice and I resist the urge to ruin everyone's Thanksgiving, even though…
This is what I love about blogging. The conversation, which sometimes has nothing to do with the post. Now, *that* might actually be an example of narcissistic and self-indulgent behavior. Ha! And, yeah, Gen X did have a good run. We rarely discuss it.
Posted by jenx67 on 11/27/2008 at 06:13am | permalink | Reply to this comment
At some point in your post, young people became "college graduates." I suppose the stats for the young non-college grads are as grim as they are for older people?
Posted by Werner von Wallenrod on 11/27/2008 at 07:48am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Mmmmm, not so sure I agree. I used to, but not anymore. Recently, a friend who's an editor at a NY magazine who was only a few years out of college was axed. Also, a friend just 1 1/2 years out of college, who took a financial-industry job in San Francisco a few months ago, was just axed. It's starting to happen to recent college grads, too. And the job search for people my age right now isn't easy….believe me. It may be harder for the older folks, but I wouldn't say the younger generation is untouchable.
Posted by Emily on 11/27/2008 at 10:16am | permalink | Reply to this comment
As a boomer, who admittedly contributed to the delayed maturity of two really great boys, we finally got over our crazed "we want them to be happies" to "you want it, pay for it" – as WE were raised. Guess what. These two guys know how to work beyond 'putting in their 40' per week and will hopefully keep their jobs because they have a work ethic. Not knocking the GEN Y X or whoever – but this group doesn't share their stuff very well and from what I've observed; not that interested in truly mentoring young talent – a lot of talk but not much action. So, now the young kids are turning to boomers to get some of that – and we're willing to do it – someone did it for us. Old school wisdom? Maybe, but more than they are getting in other areas about the basic information that can lead you to success. Better prep for the times we are just beginning to see. I'm tired of the Boomer-bash, everyone (LABELED GROUPS) have something to offer if you can move beyond the labels.
Posted by Becky on 11/27/2008 at 10:17am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Penelope–
You are so right. Happiness is boring. More important, how long have I not been 20 and entry level? I didn't realize I was old until I read your post and thought, me? Entry level? Only years ago? Years? Really? It was just yesterday, right?
I kind of assumed your post was somewhat sarcastic. Not so? Many others thought you were saying the economy was peachy. I sort of thought you had this dark sense of humor, like, "Hey it's really fantastic for those of us who aspire to flip burgers at a fast food joint or work the check out at Wal-mart."
As for funkright, he has a wicked crush on you girlfriend. He's beside himself with deep affection. Just my opinion, of course.
Is it too early to have a glass of wine?
Posted by Alisa Bowman on 11/27/2008 at 10:35am | permalink | Reply to this comment
It's interesting. The Baby Boomers are constantly railing against the younger generations. We have been labeled as "entitled."
Recent employment rates demonstrate that the Boomer Generation should aptly be re-labeled the "Homer Simpson Generation". This new label is a better reflection of the so called Baby Boomer generation. Like Baby Boomers Homer Simpson expects everything to be handed to him on a silver platter. As he once said, "I'm a white male, aged 18-35! Everyone listens to me!" His inexplicable employment as a technician in sector 7G at the local nuclear power plant bespeaks his generation's culture of leisure and endless advancement, regardless of skill or education.
If there is one thing this article demonstrate it's the fact that the Boomers need to be re-labeled the "Homer Generation." Lets all join together and create a new meme! No more will we allow our older inferior generation to hold us down and incorrectly label us.
YAR!
Posted by Weston D. on 11/27/2008 at 11:36am | permalink | Reply to this comment
HI Penelope,
Happy Thanksgiving. Can you define "young"? I feel it can be a relative term and it would help me understand the point of your post a little better if I know what the parameters are.
Thanks!
Posted by Kim on 11/27/2008 at 11:57am | permalink | Reply to this comment
For this blog, young is usually Gen Y — which is pretty much college grad to early thrities. But debatable. And, really, it's very debatable because I think age is often defined more by how you interact in the world rather than by when you were born. In that vein, here is a quiz I wrote for you to determine what generation you are really part of:
http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/06/25/what-generation-are-you-part-of-really-take-this-test/
–Penelope
Posted by Penelope Trunk on 11/29/2008 at 10:04am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Penelope, thanks for this very different view on current employment stats. Great stuff!
It was so good, I had to link to it on my blog: http://jobhacking.typepad.com/job_hacking/2008/11/thanksgiving-2008.html
Posted by Dave Hardwick on 11/27/2008 at 12:25pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I am 58 years old. As a Baby Boomer, not only did I never spend tons of money I don’t have and bi$ch about it afterwards, .. but I used what little I DID have to help out my Gen Y kids with college so they wouldn’t be totally paralyzed with student loans upon graduation.
I get that you’re paid to be outrageous and push the envelope with a certain demographic..and maybe that’s all your funders care about. But if your funders have any moral sense at all..they will realize that you are doing A LOT OF HARM with your ageist remarks that inevitably stir the pot with younger workers who ..Hello…I might have to interview with and report to. It's hard enough for those of us in our 50's without your ignorant and smug comments contributing to yet MORE prejudice between the generations. You may be feel invulnerable now, but in 8 short years you’ll be in your fifties too..and then things will start changing, even for you.
The fact that this post appeared on Thanksgiving only serves to underscore your totally self-absorbed perspective on things. Not only am I canceling my subscription to your blog, but I darn well am going to find and share my concerns with your funders. You need a major dose of humility.
Posted by ERICA FOX on 11/27/2008 at 02:09pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
blah blah blah
I can't believe how rude people are in responding to your posts Penelope. I didn't subscribe to your blog before but this woman inspired me to do just that.
I don't see the economy as being positive for young people right now. However, my definition of young is different than yours. I run an employment education program for youth ages 14-21. In the midst of the holiday season, I have been encouraging and helping almost all of my participants to apply for any jobs they may qualify for. Very few have found anything (even seasonal work is hard to come by this year).
I appreciate your blog and the conversation that follows – particularly by those who are having a good time with it instead of taking it as a personal offense.
Thanks!
Posted by Emily on 12/05/2008 at 10:46am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Just considering your Branding issue and thought your last name poses an excellent opportunity….
Instead of Penelope Trunk's Blog.. why not just "Penelope's Trunk" or "Penelope's Trunk full of Blog"?
Posted by Natalia on 11/27/2008 at 04:05pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I was hoping your post was really about 'giving thanks' but didn't see much 'thanks' in there.
I appreciate your observations but they don't match the reality and observations of my friends and colleagues. I also wonder why all the labeling? Yes, even social scholars create cohorts to define generations, but your words take those definitions so much further, into stereotypical not-so-flattering areas.
Oh well, I'm still thankful for freedom of speech, even when we disagree.
Posted by Jess on 11/27/2008 at 08:11pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
OMG, I get it now! I can't believe it took me this long to figure it out. Your website is like a candy store. The blog post is your store front and the comments are the candy. You can't sell candy without the right inventory. I get it!
Posted by Janee on 11/28/2008 at 03:03am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Penelope:
The thing about being a star performer – and it helps to pay attention to basic statistics – is that only a very small percentage of actual hoards of college graduates can be it. The outliers are never the issue; the crowds thronging the middle bulge of the bell-curve are the ones who face problems. Telling them to become star performers is like telling a short person to become taller! Not everything can be corrected by just working harder.
But then I forget, this is not a blog for those who do manual jobs to put bread on their table, this is a blog for those who have even butter but worry about varieties of marmalade and preserves to put on their bread.
As a society we need to think more about the masses without jobs and without homes and without security. An unequal and un-provided-for society is an unstable one, no matter whom you are married to and what age you are.
Posted by Shefaly on 11/28/2008 at 07:31am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Near 50% for 50 and overs? That startled me so I posted it in a coupla' of the groups – immediately I get this in private e-mail:
Maureen-
Hope you had a good Thanksgiving…
Unfortunately this information doesn't at all surprise me.
There has been a wave of this "get rid of the over 50 crowd" for years.
This is very prominent in certain parts of the country, namely Silicon Valley and the Greater Boston area…
As a contract recruiter I've seen a lot of this over the past 4-5 years and been impacted by it personally. Certain industries are worse than others…
When companies use buzzwords like "energetic" or "fit the culture" these can be warning signs…
I completed an assignment less than a year ago where the CEO was in his early forties and wanted all his direct hires to be between 25-35.
This company is a subsidiary of a larger corporation…the subsidiary practiced age discrimination…yet the parent company did not…I saw this "up close and personal" with candidates I sent them whom the subsidiary wouldn't hire yet the parent would…
This news is not the least bit shocking because I've lived it…
Anon
Posted by Maureen Sharib on 11/28/2008 at 10:34am | permalink | Reply to this comment
I'm solid Gen X and I agree with your comment about us not getting a good run.
I graduated College in Dec 2001 and didn't find a real career job for a full year after that (majored in Computer Science).
Now 31 I was just starting to get my overspending 20's out of my system, being more responsible with my money, owning a home, and paying for my own wedding.
Rather than being able to ride up in the world on constantly increasing home prices, and a booming economy that means companies can give raises and hire more etc… I'm now facing a 10% paycut, and a bit stuck in a market/job.
Don't get me wrong I'm glad I have a job, and I'm on the lookout for something better and we are far from destitute… but I look forward to a time when things get easier.
Posted by Gen X Blues on 11/28/2008 at 02:47pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Unemployment 0% for grads? Really! Why don't you talk to some grads? Why don't you do a statistical analysis of how these numbers are being gathered, or, if you don't understand the higher math, hire someone who does. Have you? Have you done any research besides quoting people second-hand? If you were a career "expert" instead of a feel-good charlatan, this is what you'd do.
Posted by John on 11/28/2008 at 02:49pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I am another baby boomer with zero debt and I have paid off my home mortgage. Yeah, people told us we could afford a much more expensive house, but we didn't want to go into debt. Many of us were raised by parents who grew up in the Great Depression and learned to live frugally out of necessity. I am thankful I had such great role models and that my job is changing constantly so that I never get bored.
Posted by happy go lucky on 11/28/2008 at 07:21pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I’ve heard the argument a lot from younger people my age that they aren’t strapped for cash and their friends don’t seem desperate, so what’s the big deal? There’s something valid to that observation – we aren’t surrounded by poverty like people were in the Great Depression. But then again, the Great Depression, though sparked overnight, was a decade. The desperate poverty characterizing the depression came in the years after rich & middle-class people lost their life-savings.
This sort of stuff tends to hit from top-down. It’s going to hit those who have the invested in the economy (e.g., in terms of money, assets, skills) hardest, & it’s natural that those will be older people. It’s also an ugly situation when you consider how the notion of IRA’s really isn’t that old. Much of my 401 goes into the stock market, but it has a good few decades to improve before I can take it out. I’d hate to imagine the perspective from a person who is about to reach retirement & has a good portion of that money invested in funds.
But you have some interesting points about how much things are going to change as the baby boomers continue to age. Economically, we’ll see some pretty drastic shifts in ethnic/racial makeup of America. You have to wonder as well how much baby boomers have stifled the voice of younger generations. "stifled"'s not quite the right word, but you have to figure that since they became adults, the voice of younger generations has diminished simply because of our smaller size. It'll be interesting to see what effect this has on politics as well, as the ages of the voting population slowly evens out. Obama I wonder might be the start of this era, given all the support he had from youth, & how he wasn't born into politics & wealth.
Posted by kerrjac on 11/28/2008 at 09:42pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I can't believe Penelope Trunk is taking pot shots at the over-50 set. Boomers — especially the older boomers — have been through a lot of feast and famine cycles in their working lives. Many worked hard to get where they are. Many entered a world of typewriters and carbon paper and now work with colleagues who don't remember when "cut and paste" was literal. Back then, getting a good job was a challenge unless you were white, male and married.
Age discrimination is real and worse than any other kind. Companies don't even bother to hide it. If you're over 50 and unemployed, you need to think about self-employment, whether you want to or not. You may get lucky with a new job that's rewarding (or at least not threatening to your sense of self-worth) but don't count on it.
Posted by Cathy Goodwin on 11/28/2008 at 10:18pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Cathy:
Sometimes we externalise our fears. If you do the maths, you will know that our friend P will be 50 in a space of 6-7 years.
Like P, I too have been independent (from corporate ties) for over 8 years. I consult for technology and India investors in unglamorous but highly regulated sectors like health tech. Being a star performer is easier in an environment where you have a bunch of people to be compared against; to stay relevant as an independent consultant requires a different level of professional competence altogether.
The post, as I see it, as much a consolation to the youngsters who think they would be king, as it is a reflection of P's near-future, I think. So in brief, I don't think this as a potshot at over-50s. But then I am an eternal optimist :-)
Posted by Shefaly on 11/29/2008 at 04:17am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Cathy, I think your assessment of age discrimination is unfair and one-sided. My dad is in his late 50's and has voluntarily changed jobs twice in the last three years. He works the job market to his advantage, and I think he succeeds for two reasons: 1. He is the classic example of P's "star performer" – top salesperson in his companies just about every year of my life, a lifelong student, a brilliant mentor, and a master networker. 2. He is not afraid to get his hands dirty. I see a lot of older unemployed people who act as if they are above working hard, especially if the work is supervised by someone younger and/or less experienced than they are. That's age discrimination, too.
Posted by Lindsey on 12/01/2008 at 01:48am | permalink | Reply to this comment
>>If you're over 50 and unemployed, you need to think about self-employment, whether you want to or not<<
This statement is key for everyone, even college grads. Many successful businesses were started in desperation by people who couldn't find jobs after graduating. Granted, they didn't make a lot of money at first but with creativity, perseverance and hard work (sometimes 2-3 jobs at a time), they eventually prospered.
Baby boomer and world-renown graphic designer Margo Chase is an example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margo_Chase
Posted by avant garde designer on 12/01/2008 at 05:01pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Here's a note to those people who are aspiring to be a star performer. There is probably no better time than now to be one. People will probably be laid off in your company resulting in their projects and duties to be assigned/picked up by the remaining employees. Initiative is one of the four traits associated with a star performer. Take the initiative and be willing to pick up the slack rather than bemoan the fact you're already overworked – complaining won't set you apart from everyone else.
Posted by Mark W. on 11/29/2008 at 08:50am | permalink | Reply to this comment
I'm guessing you haven't spent too much time in the corporate world? :)
Posted by IMK on 12/02/2008 at 07:38pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Penelope is right, there have been many entry-level jobs going unfilled. Of course. these may be drying up more and more as the retail and hospitality industries (in particular) suffer.
Just to clarify, I didn't mean to say or imply that unemployment for graduates is 0%. However, unemployment among 4-year, college educated workers who are 25 years of age or older has been less than 4% for at least the past 15 years – as far as the Bureau of Labor Stats go back (online):
http://data.bls.gov/PDQ/servlet/SurveyOutputServlet
Why is 4% significant? 4% is at the low range of what the US and OECD define as "full employment". Wikipedia says that "in 1999, in the United States, the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) gives an estimate of the "full-employment unemployment rate" of 4 to 6.4%. This is the estimated "structural" unemployment rate, (the unemployment when there is full employment), plus & minus, the standard error of the estimate. (Estimates for other countries are also available from the OECD.)"
If the BLS link above doesn't work, please create your own tables here: http://www.bls.gov/cps/cpsatabs.htm
scroll down and choose: "Table A-4. Labor force status of the civilian population 25 years and over by educational attainment"
Times are getting tougher for everyone. Unemployment rates do not reflect the real situation for many new grads. Many young people will have to accept lower paid positions or jobs that aren't quite what they'd hoped for when they started college. This was the situation for me and my wife when we graduated in the recession of the late 80's/early 90's as well. The key is finding work that will get you "career" type experience, even if the pay is bad.
I know that's difficult if you have rent and student loans to pay – so stay at home a little longer or get several roomates, speak to the bank about your loan, work two jobs (one that gets you the experience and maybe another that pays the bills). When I graduated I worked in the day as a poorly paid student career center supervisor and three nights a week as a bartender. I had three roomates more or less doing the same thing. It was fun, I earned tips and I made friends in a new town where I didn't know anyone.
Anyway, I agree with Penelope, times aren't as bad as the media portrays them and the advantage of youth is great energy and (usually) fewer other demands on your time.
Please don't tell me I'm being naive, I was a new grad less than 20 years ago and went through the same things. But things improve. I just asked my wife who is sitting across the room – "do you know anyone … anyone at all who you graduated with that isn't gainfully employed and doing well today?" Between both of us – me born in 1964 (late boomer) her in 1966 (early X) we can't think of ANYBODY who hasn't done well.
You will do well too and then you'll look back at these times as not so bad at all.
Posted by Allan Schweyer on 11/29/2008 at 09:38am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Alan,
Thanks so much for this comment. It not only clarifies the statistics, but it teaches us all some different ways to think about employment statistics (something I think the Human Capital Institute is great for, by the way) and it gives us statistical reason to be optimistic, which I love!
Penelope
Posted by Penelope Trunk on 11/29/2008 at 10:14am | permalink | Reply to this comment
I followed your link to Bush's pardons. Hardly seems like a bunch of cronies to me. Nothing approaching a Mark Rich style pardon.
Posted by jjoakl on 11/29/2008 at 03:18pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Agreed. From the Wall Street Journal weekend edition:
"President Bush has pardoned fewer people – 171 – than any president since World War II…President Bush's pardons have been low-risk politically. The pardonees were onetime offenders who got very little or no prison time for crimes that occurred long ago."
I see no longtime friends on the list.
Posted by Jerry on 11/30/2008 at 11:25am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Hi Miss P oh I like that new photo! Much better than that other one (which wasn't bad either, just like this one more).
I think anyone who is willing to stay relevant in the workforce is going to have no problem in any economy (did I just state the obvious)?
Age discrimination comes in when someone doesn't keep their skills fresh, their enthusiasm up, their attitude positive, and their technology knowledge up.
Oh, and age discrimination definitely comes in if someone doesn't keep the weight off, doesn't keep their hair styled (this goes for both sexes, nothing worse than dated hair on a 40+ guy), glasses updated (please please please get new glasses if yours are more than 5 years old) and doesn't keep their fashion up.
Or is that just too much to ask?
And yeah Gen X never got it's (our) turn that's for dang sure, excpet those insanely awesome years between 95-99 of which I sure was glad to be around for!
Posted by finance girl on 11/29/2008 at 09:04pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Great literary show, Penelope. And at last someone else is tired of the Bomers, their conflicts and their spending. Even though, I'm the father of three Bomers, I really needed to make this comment.
I have 18 (yes, eighteen) Millennial proteges. What fun and excitement!
From a member of the so-called Silent Generation.
Posted by Dan Erwin on 11/30/2008 at 07:28pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Yeah, I don't know if I believe that. I'm a 2008 graduate from one of the best liberal arts colleges in the country, and most of my friends are underemployed at best. After applying for more than 90 jobs, all of which I was technically qualified for, I got six interviews and two job offers–both were for part-time, no-benefits jobs. All of the interviewers informed me that they'd had thousands of applications for this ONE opening (and these were hardly high-paying or high-prestige jobs). And looking around at my friends–most of whom, like me, had challenging jobs and internships throughout college, and had good GPAs and great recommendations from professors and employers alike–I'm feeling pretty lucky. At least I'm making enough to pay my rent, even if I have to keep the heat set at 58 degrees.
So after reading this stuff about a 0% unemployment rate and lots of job openings, I'm asking myself–where are all these employed college grads living??? Not in Portland, Seattle, San Francisco, New York, Chicago, Los Angeles, Washington, or San Diego. Please fill me in, as I'd love to move somewhere where there are jobs. Then I'll inform my several dozen un(der)employed friends, and we'll all move there and take all of those jobs.
Posted by Amanda on 11/30/2008 at 08:04pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Two and half million jobs already created from the Chicago Hilton? Really? Why all the angst and unpleasantry? What are you so angry about? Sex scene needs tension? Boomers suck? You already got corrected on the pardons so I won't go there. My disappointment with you is beyond reasonable measure. Please reread this post and reflect on the many things you and the rest of us have to be thankful for like food, shelter and warmth that billions do not have. There is an orphanage in the Nairobi slum with what seems like a 100,000 or more orphaned children. Their plight is truly sad. If you hold one of these children it might be the first time that child or baby was ever held. They would look into your eye with a love our spoiled selves will never know. Because we have too much for doing too little. Count me guilty too. The point is there is no reason for you to be so angry.
Posted by Don B. on 12/01/2008 at 08:02am | permalink | Reply to this comment
I think my husband, who graduated from college in May 2008, and who has done nothing but scramble for temp jobs since, would beg to differ.
I finished my M.A. in 2008 as well. I started applying for jobs in January and had to apply for 100 before I even got one interview. And that was before the big bailouts started happening. I did manage to land a great job, for which I am VERY thankful, but I don't really make enough to support us both on one income, hence the scrambling. Even when one partner finds a job, that may not be enough. Well, it would be enough – if I wasn't paying $400 a month back on my student loans. We try to live within our means, but I simply can't support us both when my loan payments are only slightly cheaper than my rent.
It is tough out there right now for everyone, whether they be young, middle aged, or older
Posted by earlgreyrooibos on 12/01/2008 at 11:19am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Fun post. And too right happiness is boring. But I'm a Brit, I would say that. (Bah humbug). Happiness is something to experience, not preach.
The economic downturn is not universally bad. That's not how economies work. The trend is generally bad but it's also a shift in the nature of opportunities. A friend works in web dev and sees business pick up during slumps (not sure why – maybe businesses work harder on their image and front end to stimulate trade?)
Avoiding spending money you don't have is simply good sense. Whatever the generation and whatever the year. In every walk of life and in every decade there are incautious people unfortunate enough to be unlucky as well. Right now, because of the credit situation, their options for being incautious are limited. Kinda good for them, you might say.
Posted by Mikeachim on 12/01/2008 at 11:23am | permalink | Reply to this comment
For those of you still looking for work after college. Consider moving to smaller cities in the Midwest. Areas with smaller populations have trouble right now finding workers to fill thousands of jobs.
http://talktochad.blogspot.com/2008/10/blog-inspiration-2-penolope-trunk.html
Posted by Chad Howard on 12/01/2008 at 02:46pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
"I'm asking myself–where are all these employed college grads living??? Not in Portland, Seattle, San Francisco, New York, Chicago, Los Angeles, Washington, or San Diego."
http://www.cnn.com/2008/LIVING/worklife/11/24/cb.best.cities.find.jobs/index.html
Posted by Pirate Jo on 12/01/2008 at 03:39pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Owned…..
"President Bush has pardoned fewer people – 171 – than any president since World War II…President Bush's pardons have been low-risk politically. The pardonees were onetime offenders who got very little or no prison time for crimes that occurred long ago."
I see no longtime friends on the list."
Posted by Rimrock on 12/01/2008 at 04:36pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Demanding respect when you haven't earned it is a quick ticket to unemployed irrelevance.
Posted by jrandom44 on 12/01/2008 at 07:30pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I graduated from college in June of 2008 (6 months ago). I am surprised by all the negativity here. Having a college degree does not entitle you to a job. You still need skills that add value to a company. If all you can do is file papers, then you're probably not going to get paid more than anyone else who files papers.
There isn't really any secret to getting a good job – if you have marketable skills and kick ass at what you do, you'll get a job. I spent college doing freelance web design. When I graduated, I magically had plenty of job offers and spent 4 months waiting until something I actually wanted to do came along – no lame career fairs, no boring internships. As an undergrad I ended up getting the average salary of the MBA graduates. A friend of mine just did the same thing in a completely separate industry.
Stop with all the negativity and look at what you can do. Be honest with yourself as to whether your experience and skills actually translate into a solid hire.
And yes, I am a recent college graduate living (comfortably) in San Francisco.
Posted by Ben Bleikamp on 12/02/2008 at 12:57am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Web design? Seriously? Is this 1999…
Or can you enlighten in what field you hit it big? And do you make enough to buy a place in San Francisco or just rent and live with roommates…
As for making as much as an MBA, that isn't too hard b/c everyone and their brother was getting an MBA after the tech bubble, and I know many MBA's who make squat… now if they are MBAs from Harvard or Wharton, maybe we'll take notice :)
Congrats on the job, but from your posting I don't see what makes you so employable — what skills are you bringing to the table as an entry level employee. I know it can't be web design…
Posted by D on 12/03/2008 at 04:44pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
A) Do you think the websites you read and look at are built magically? Web design is a career for thousands of people and I was able to make $40,000 a year out of my apartment doing it through college.
B) I am now a user interface designer/engineer in San Francisco, and I rent an apartment at $2300/mo without roommates. I do not know any recent college graduates who buy places…anywhere?
C) The skills I bring to the table are 5 years of experience building user interfaces and user experiences. Given that tens of millions of people use the web every day and software is moving to the web rather than the desktop, I am not sure you can discount it as a "make believe job" anymore. Maybe you just don't understand technology?
Posted by Ben Bleikamp on 2008-12-03 16:49:11 | (Comments wont nest below this level)
I come to this blog to see just how insane a self-righteous blowhard can be. Clueless does not describe this woman. For you youngans, you better be grateful if you find a job in this horrid economy and you better be prepared to work hard.
For you boomers out there, generally yeah, you screwed us all. Own it — you are the first debt generation and your entitlement mindset put us here. Not all boomers are bad, in fact, more than a few have been great to me.
As for us Gen-Xers, don't even think about moving up as the Boomers are going to die before retirement. They have no savings and their overpriced homes won't sell for 1/2 of what they think. We'll get ours, it may just be another 15 years.
For all: get out of debt and stay out of debt asap. It is going to get far worse.
Posted by Reality Check on 12/02/2008 at 07:37am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Reality Check describes it well: P is clueless and makes up a lot of feel-good drivel that I think she actually believes. Talk to any recent grads–or college guidance counselors for that matter–and they'll laugh when they hear what she's saying. But look at her own career trajectory–not exactly spectacular. But she gives other people advice for a living. Kind of like Ford and GM advising the Japanese how to run their car companies.
Posted by John on 12/02/2008 at 01:53pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I was hoping that you gen x'ers,gen y's and even the silent generation members remember that the Salem witch trials were fought along generational lines.
It seems likely that the boomers will be a major political force at least until the middle of this century.
We want to work, we're not choosy, and we will pay you back. Don't worry be happy.
Posted by vinny on 12/02/2008 at 07:41am | permalink | Reply to this comment
That article describing the debt behavior of the Boomers … wow! That guy feels exactly the same way I do. The birth rate statistics stopped at 1980 on his graph, but I know the birth rate among homegrown Americans is down, and we are only maintaining a stable population because of immigration. What I am really curious about, is whether immigrants practice the same foolish financial mismanagement as described in the article. I suppose some of the poor ones got suckered into the easy credit mess, but the IT people I work with from India seem to have a very responsible and grounded mindset.
I am one of those poor saps who keeps living within my means and paying taxes to bail out the stupid and irresponsible borrowers and lenders. But if more of our population comes from immigration, and they come here without the entitlement mindset, maybe there is some hope.
Posted by Pirate Jo on 12/02/2008 at 10:31am | permalink | Reply to this comment
1 – Penelope: Leave your politics at the door, please.
2 – Use more than just a person sitting next to you on a panel to get your entry level employment data. The best two sources are the Collegiate Employment Research Institute at Michigan State University and NACE. That is if you value research where n = (more than just) you on a panel.
Posted by Doc on 12/02/2008 at 04:09pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Point #1 completely contradicts 2. And point #2 is impossible.
Nice to hear some optimistic data but a cool follow up would be unemployment and underemployment for different college majors versus years out of college.
Posted by Sophie on 12/02/2008 at 06:47pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
umm…. the vast majority of bankers – at least the nyc kind – are under 35. I don't think the qualifies as middle aged.
Posted by Marc on 12/03/2008 at 04:55pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Oh my, where to begin.
Let's see. Everything wrong in the economy is the boomers' fault according to Gen Xers and Ys with MBAs. How many of these clowns in the banks,etc. are MBAs? And how many are non-boomers? There's plenty of blame to go around. I have seen countless people come out of college with business and marketing degrees who think they're entitled to huge starting salaries,etc. right out of the gate. It's not a generational thing, it's the corporate mindset that's become part of our culture. We are becoming a nation that can make nothing but money, and the people on Wall Street and the banks are our heroes (or at least they were). The craftsman, scientist, tool and die maker, and engineer don't matter any more even though they're the ones that built America. And I'd like to see some you Xers and Ys walk up to say, an iron worker who is a boomer and tell him what a bum he is for causing all your misery. Thanks Penelope for telling us what to be afraid of and who's to blame.
Posted by Utopian Mercenary on 12/04/2008 at 05:46pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Do we still have iron workers? Or have they outsourced that to China, India, Phillipines, Mexico…
We have to stop pushing keyboard keys and stop the flow of crap that arrives every day in those 55,000 containers and start MAKING IT IN THE USA!!!
Posted by John Michael on 12/04/2008 at 10:14pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Broadly speaking, yes, it was the boomers who started this nightmare as they were the 1st generation to take debt to new levels of bondage.
To be fair though, some of the greatest entrepeneurs are boomers too: Gates, Jobs, etc.
Just because someone has a lower income doesn't make them innocent either. Did your iron worker take out a mortgage he couldn't possibly re-pay? Who is going to help this "poor" man? That's right, the generations after him will have to foot the bill. It's not that Gen-X is better by any means, it just started with the boomers.
You are right that it is our entitlement mentality and greed overall — and I have to say, that's what makes Penny's articles so great to read as she has got to be the poster child for this self-centered thinking. I (seriously) thought her writing was "just-for-fun" joke articles till she got canned from Yahoo! — then I realized she really meant this garbage. Very disturbing to say the least.
To all of you younger than Gen-X, see the news for yourself: it sucks out there and it's getting way worse. Get real with your expectations and work hard if you are lucky enough to find a job. Nobody cares if you have a life or not, that's why it's called "work" and not "play".
Posted by Reality Check on 12/05/2008 at 09:11am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Gen-X,Gen Y's,Boomers.Silent Gens should remain optimistic.
With the Republicans in disarray there is hope that the a significant national course correction is underway, hence the comparisons of Obama to FDR.
You have a right to a life and meaningful work,a goal the American people have been striving for since the 1870's.
We should care about if the other person has a life or not. Without that sense of society,unity, we are in trouble. The GI generation faced the Great Depression and WW2.
Their unity with other generations pulled all them through. Gen-X, Gen-Y, and the Boomers (plus the Silent Generation of course) will get their shot at redemption.
Posted by vinny on 2008-12-05 16:39:18 | (Comments wont nest below this level)
Fair enough, Reality Check. I would like to see some data on the ages of the people that took out subprime mortgages or ARMs that they can't pay now. Boomers that were trying to move up too much? Younger people just starting out? My guess is both. I am confused as to why Penelope apparently wants to pit one generation against another. It solves nothing, and does nothing but build resentment in the workplace. But then our political campaigns have turned into "us vs. the evil them" and "[insert demographic group name here] is the cause of your problems" so why should it be any different here?
Posted by Utopian Mercenary on 12/05/2008 at 01:38pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I graduated in May 2008 with honors. I feel I did everything that was possible to look good for employers. I have no job offers to report. Not one. Whats crazy is how employers send rejection letters acting like there were better candidates. But when I go and hunt down recruiters to ask them why the truth comes out. There is a hiring freeze for a lot of companies.
Posted by Graduate with no job on 12/06/2008 at 11:59am | permalink | Reply to this comment
@ Graduate w/out Job
I dont think its very surprising you would not have a job offer considering this is the most dire economy in 40-50 years. It takes a little luck even after all the hard work –and right now there isn't a whole lot of luck floating around. Companies don't admit to hiring freezes (among other things) because they may want to leave the door open to hire that one person they really need, no need to tell the world all of their intentions. Hang in there as good things come to those that wait.
Posted by grecnorca.aim on 12/07/2008 at 02:21am | permalink | Reply to this comment
There are just two things I have to add to this particular entry and thread. First, the demographics of those unemployed spans the working age spectrum and to ignore that fact is to do an injustice to any and all of those who are facing it. Second, if I read the age range for Gen X correctly (give or take a year or two on each end of it) and from different sources, aren't you all a bit old to be angst-ridden, rebellious teenagers? Even elder Gen Y/Millenials are already in their 20's. That being the case, they could argue that you are now as much a part of the problem you perceive there to be as the solution you believe you bring to the table.
Posted by Gene on 12/07/2008 at 07:04pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
This too shall pass. Everything we see is part of a cycle. Sometimes the wave crests higher, sometimes lower, but everything we see has happened before and will be solved similarly.
My2centsworth
Posted by Dale on 12/07/2008 at 11:02pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I don't understand where you getting your data from… and all of them are soooooo wrong. Please get the numbers right and stop quoting sites like jobfox (which itself is going through layoff) and they make money by selling services to recruiting companies.
more Older people getting laid? where are you quoting this from?
There might be some in Montclair…– what the heck you talking about? Most Elite Bankers live in Summit or Millburn….Including Jim Cramer?- Please stop and verify your data before you quote and the HR magazine as well where you wrote a repeated article with no related data. Please take some time out to do some real research.
Posted by The truth on 12/08/2008 at 02:23pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
WRONG!!
http://www.aarp.org/research/economy/trends/fs148_employment.html
Posted by jrandom42 on 12/09/2008 at 05:04pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I didn't think that this post sounded right when I read it
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/13/business/13charts.html?hp
Posted by gcoaster on 12/12/2008 at 08:27pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I'm older than the Baby Boomers and could care less. I also don't like generalizations of any kind, let alone about "generations." I don't complain about my lot in life and am more passionate about my profession today as I was 30 years ago.
Posted by Ron Ulrici on 12/15/2008 at 01:07pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I stumbled upon this post ironically looking for information on what jobs are still hiring in this economic sh** hole, and I always find the same things: accounting, nursing, technical jobs, etc…But this is FAR from the reality I've encountered here in Los Angeles, CA. My husband graduated in May from accounting and he has not been able to find ONE single full-time/part-time job. The closest he has gotten is a temporary job as a clerk that lasted one month. For nurses it's not so great either, with strikes and layoffs left and right.
I graduated with a Bachelor’s in honors English last year, and I am not in a great position either. I work for a local newspaper, and although I get paid well, my hours are ONLY 7.5 per week because my hours were cut (the advertisement department was not doing so well). However, let me not mislead you, before my hours were cut the total time allotted for my duties were 8. I work for another company that is also a startup and it's supposed to be full-time, but unfortunately this company has not had a stable work flow this entire year; I have not worked for this company since Oct. 23, and before that there was a work gap from Aug. until Sept.
What caught my attention was your advice about being a "star" at your job. Well, I am a STAR at my jobs, and I still do not have something stable to fall back on. I have made a lot of sacrifices for my jobs, and I still have not seen the rewards yet. Now I know I am a star at what I do because my bosses continually tell me so, but they cannot "reward" me so far because there is no extra money or hours to give. My only reward so far is reassurance that I am one of the best, and the joy I get from doing my job well.
So I am in a dilemma, should I quit after my first year anniversary in January, or should I stick-it-out in hopes that things will get better? Either way I am taking a huge risk as the main provider of a family of four. I have been looking for available "editing/writing" jobs since July and I've encountered that most jobs in this field require 2+ years of experience to begin. I've applied to jobs that I could do while still working at the newspaper for 7.5 hours, but no one will hire me because I am still employed.
So what now? What advice do people have for writers/editors whom people feel are unnecessary in a recession?
Posted by Anonymous on 12/16/2008 at 01:30am | permalink | Reply to this comment
i'm a little late too this one. but i'm new to reading the brazen c. blog. this is wordy. but interesting…
(by the way so sorry about the divorce and the eyes and the financing)
as the founder of the american assoc. of young people, i'm here to say it's not good for young people. the reason their is a back log of openings for "low-level" and "entry level" jobs is because they are low level and entry level. great! jobs are everywhere. line up to hold a stop sign up on while we repave this high way!" you with the curly hair, here's a job for you, "wave this flag to remind people there are pavers on the high way!"
india is minting roughly 190,000 MBAs everyear. china has 3 times the amount of engineers than we have working.
domestic insourcing and pressure from our southern neighbors and other immigrants (you are welcome here, please pay taxes) continue to erode at all sorts of jobs from flag wavers to pediatricians.
i could go on but i don't have the leisure time too. (we are in a depression)
average college grad, graduates with 2300 consumer debt and 22k in school debt. average american has 7k in debt. in february 08 alone 82 billion of domestic equity went into foreign hands (why does that matter? i'm not xenophobic but then it's like giving your money to greedy corporations. the money stays in the corporations and the money stops circulating in your hands. on a larger scale, we give our rent, and consumer money to foreign interests and the money stops circulating in the usa and starts circulating in say saudi arabia or iraq (iraq has 3 times the cash reserves than the usa) and stops circulating here meaning less jobs here more jobs there and pow more depression. things get worse.
read anya kamanetz generation debt. she writes for fast company new york times and village voice (or did)
white collar jobs are leaving with the 50 billion maddof stole. ( i say we execute him right this second. seriously. kill him. we shoot convenient store robbers who try to take 200 bucks out of the cash register, we shoot bank robbers dead who clutch 2300 in bloddy cash! but we can't because boomers are in collusion. the dunces (or greedies are in confederacy against us) (sorry tangent)
readers. buckle in. spend less. make sandwhiches. drink beer instead of mixed drinks. learn spanish. (900m dollar market and growing) freelance. work with recruiters.
and this go into these fields.
healthcare. (nursing shortages and the people that support and sell to doctors and the 77 million baby boomers about to get sick (the coming generational storm-katlikoff)
alternative energy. wind specifically.
that's it. pick one of those.
don't quit your job to start a start up. nibble. saturdays and week nights. get customers. then quit when u can bank roll yourself for a year. i would say 6 months but it's 2009 depression. (oh and so your hair doesn't fall out.
penelope. you are a light in the darkness. keep shining. love your blog.
thanks for writing.
matt murray
president
american assoc. of young people.
i do agree with you though penelope that the only way to have a job is to overwhelm and be a star.
Posted by matt murray on 01/05/2009 at 12:52pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
What are you smoking?
Go do your own independent research, and take a look at the lack of entry level jobs on all the electronic job boards. Open your local Newspaper's Job section, and attempt to conjure some makeshift opportunity. An entry level job is a myth, so I'm off to Asia. I'll be back in 10 or so years when things have improved.
Posted by mike on 01/05/2009 at 01:45pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
on the contrary, there is quite a shortage of jobs for young professionals in every industry i've researched. graduated top 20 school in top 5% of class with 4 years internship experience. no prospects. what do u recommend we do?
Posted by bob frank on 01/07/2009 at 09:06pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
As long as we continue to buy stuff made elsewhere and receive 55,000 (YES FIFTY FIVE THOUSAND!) containers A DAY of things that could easily be made here in the US, the number of jobs will not be sufficient for you to get employed…
As long as companies rely upon labor in foreign countries to be your "customer service" (is there such a thing anymore?) then the number of jobs will be sufficient for you to get employed…
The Managers and executives of those above are NOT located in the United States.
As long as we continually "SELL AMERICA" (our buildings, our highways, our bridges, our parks, etc.) to the world, the Cash will go outside and fund the development of those countries.
Need I go on? We've drained our funding…
Posted by John Michael on 01/07/2009 at 09:55pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
for example … a very visible AMERICAN company is AMERICAN no more … "Anheuser-Busch InBev was formed late last year when Belgium-based InBev, maker of Stella Artois, bought U.S.-based Anheuser-Busch for $52 billion."
and they're closing things down, guess where?
Posted by John Michael on 01/08/2009 at 07:35am | permalink | Reply to this comment
What is this guy smoking lol? There are nearly no jobs available for college students or graduates. It's even worse for graduate students right now. Several of my friends have just graduated with law degrees, and MBA's and they haven't found a job yet. I hope someone will impeach Barack Obama before he spends every last dollar the American people have earned.
Posted by chris on 07/14/2009 at 10:00pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I reside in the Inland Empire of California, and I don't know where in the hell you are getting these sources of information from, but they are entirely false. I have been seeking work for over two years now, since graduating from high school so that I might be able to afford and attend Pre-Med in college, but there, and I will emphasize this, are NO JOBS ANYWHERE FOR THE UNSKILLED AND THE SKILLED ALIKE – NONE.
I went to an In-N-Out interview at the local college last year, and THREE THOUSAND PEOPLE, I repeat, THREE THOUSAND PEOPLE were lined up for EIGHT POSITIONS! There were old people, middle aged people, teenagers and even people with COLLEGE DEGREES standing in that line FOR HOURS AND THE ENTIRE PROCESS WENT ON FOR THREE DAYS! Does this sound like there are jobs out there to you? I think not. And this situation is happening all over this state and many others (the Staples center had the same scenario unfold a month previous to this). There is no more work for the rightful, LEGAL citizens of America and our futures are being destroyed.
So please, do the honorable thing and STOP adding insult to injury with slapping us in the face with lies and false hopes like what you're spewing in this article – it is degrading to us all!
By the way, why don't you people write about something tangible – like how ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION is destroying this country – 1 MILLION PEOPLE A YEAR! These people are a HUGE part of the reason we are all in this mess to begin with, remember the housing markets crashing and people getting pissed off because 85% of those home buyers defaulted and basically destroyed wall street? That was them! HAVE YOU NOTICED THAT THOSE PEOPLE ARE THE *ONLY* ONES GETTING THE 0 YEARS EXPERIENCE JOBS LATELY? THE *ONLY* ONES THAT ARE ABLE TO RECEIVE HEALTH CARE? The *ONLY* ones able to buy that shiny new Escalade?!
WAKE UP, OPEN YOUR EYES AND SEE WHAT THE REAL ISSUES ARE – AND FIX THEM! GET THOSE PEOPLE OUT OF HERE OR MAKE THEM PAY FOR THEIR NEEDS AND WANTS AND MAKE THEM SUPPORT "THE SYSTEM" LIKE THE REST OF US INSTEAD OF LETTING THEM BRING OUR INFRASTRUCTURE CRIPPLING DOWN ONTO IT'S KNEES BY MAKING *US* BREAK OUR BACKS TO SUPPORT THEM, LEAVING NOTHING LEFT FOR OURSELVES!
Posted by Magnus Avery on 08/06/2009 at 02:10pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I think I should agree with the above statement. It seems that your observation last year was wrong. I even read how a man begged for an hourly job which are commonly done by teenagers because he got fired after working for more than five years as a restaurant manager. It seems that this situation is not getting better yet and many teenagers got frustrated already.
Posted by Jobs for Teenagers on 10/26/2009 at 01:54pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
this s a loaddd of rubish , thanx for nothing !
Posted by leo on 12/02/2009 at 09:30am | permalink | Reply to this comment
I have a 3.8 GPA after 2 years in college. I was unemployed this time last year. I am unemployed right now. I had a few months of work between then and now but the most I could get was 10 hours a week.
A lot of older people who can't find work in their field right now are taking up the entry level jobs. A lot of people who weren't working before have started working and are taking up entry level jobs.
Maybe it's a good time to be young if you have the right connections. Personally, I can't wait to be 40. My teenage years sucked because my Dad was laid off and my college years suck because I have to worry about if I can even survive!
Posted by No on 12/03/2009 at 01:36am | permalink | Reply to this comment
At last someone has something positive to say about the job scene in the country. I especially like the point about college graduates enjoying decent job prospects despite the state of economy. This further establishes the strong co-relation between college education and a satisfying career. The statistics speak for themselves as the jobless rate among college graduates stands at half the overall jobless rate in the country. So, if you are a self-starter armed with a college degree, you should find plenty of options in the job market. And if you want to join the skilled workforce of the country, then enroll in a college degree program today. For a broad range of accredited degree programs in high demand fields, visit CollegeAmerica.
Posted by Accredited Degree Programs on 01/25/2010 at 01:24am | permalink | Reply to this comment
What you write might have been true about fourteen months ago, but in the present there are hardly any professional jobs for recent college grads. An overwhelming majority of grads are either unemployed or working the types of jobs they had in high school and or college.
The criteria required for jobs is really starting to get frustrating. Just about every entry level job requires 2 plus years of experience! That is crazy. The jobs that require no experience have hundreds, if not thousands, of people competing for them.
Posted by Dude from Chicago area on 01/27/2010 at 12:40am | permalink | Reply to this comment