Do you belong in NYC? Take the test
More than 80% of young people say they want to live in New York City, according to Time Out New York. I can understand that. I lived there for seven years. Of course, NYC is amazing. But I have also lived for about ten years each in Chicago, LA, and Boston. And now I live in Madison, WI. And I can tell you with certainty that anywhere you live requires you to give up some things.
NYC has the most extreme benefits to it, but it also requires the most extreme concessions in order to get those benefits. This makes sense. It’s how most of life is. So in order to understand how good a fit you’d be in NYC, you don’t need to look at the benefits — we all want the benefits of NYC. What you need to look at is what you give up.
Here are three questions to ask yourself. You need to answer yes to at least two before you start researching movers in New York.
1. Are you a maximizer?
Optimizers are people who are always looking for the best of everything. You know if you are this kind of person because you are never complacent. You are always trying to find if there is something better. It could be a someone who cuts bangs better, a better pickup basketball game, you keep trading up boyfriends, maximizers are always looking for something better, and they usually get greatness in their lives in many aspects. Non-maximizers can be satisfied with what they have. Each of us falls somewhere on this spectrum. New Yorkers skew heavily to strong maximizers.
This is because you can find pretty much the best of everything in NYC. (Yes, maybe there are some things, like the best ski slope, that you cannot find there, but if that’s what you want most, you probably shouldn’t be in NYC.)
I know you have heard that NYC is expensive. But you will never really know how insanely expensive it is until you live there.It’s like having children. Everyone will tell you having kids is really, really hard. Harder than anything they’ve ever done. And everyone will also say that after all those warnings, they still were not prepared for how hard it was when the baby came. This is what money is like in NYC — you absolutely cannot imagine how expensive it is there until you are there, living day to day.
So New Yorkers constantly have to ask themselves: What am I paying so much for? What am I suffering so much for? Life in NYC is very hard (here’s funny commentary on that), and if you go to any city in the US, there is a bond that ex-New Yorkers have because they know they each understand how hard life was.
I say this to tell you that the only way to justify the cost and hardship of NYC is because you’re an optimizer. You appreciate having access to the best of things. Not everything — you probably have a few things that are really important to you. And you’re willing to trade off a lot of comforts to get it.
2. Do you want to be at the top of your field (or marry someone like that)?
In many cases, people have to work in NYC in order to rise to the top in their field. (Or, they want to marry someone like this — NYC is a very competitive place to find a husband but only because women recognize that the pickings are superior: Maximizing knows no bounds.)
Wanting to be at the top of your field is not for everyone. Business Week reports that eighty percent of generation Y thinks they are in the top ten percent of all workers. So a bunch of you are overestimating your capabilities, right? But the truth is that NYC is very, very competitive, because it’s a magnet for ambitious, strong performers, and if you are not in the top, you will probably not do very well there. So if you do not go to NYC thinking you will work your way to the top of your field, you probably don’t need to be going there for your work.
And, of course, you do not necessarily have to live in NYC to work in NYC, but in order to get a substantially lower cost of living, you would have to move pretty far from the city. This is why New York has the longest commute times of anywhere in the country. This is a fine line to walk, though, because long commutes do a lot of damage to one’s ability to be happy. So you are probably better off paying to high price to live closer to work if you want to get to the top of your field.
3. Do you value an interesting life over happy life?
New Yorkers are not known for being happy. In fact, they are known for being unhappy, and they don’t care.
On balance, New Yorkers understand that most people who are happy are complacent — they like the status quo. And people who like what they have do not do innovative things to change the world. They like the world just fine how it is. This is probably why 95% of New Yorkers voted democrat in the last presidential election. Republicans are typically happier with their lives than democrats. And most New Yorkers are maximizers, and maximizers are almost never happy.
New Yorkers think an interesting life is more important than a happy life. What you really pay for with the exorbitant cost of living and the hard lifestyle is to be surrounded by strong performers, huge ambitions, and constant need for change and innovation. To live in New York City, you have to trade happiness for this. To most New Yorkers, it’s a no-brainer. They would take that trade any day. To most people outside of New York City the trade-off is crazy.
Hat tip: Time Out New York
PT: On balance, New Yorkers understand that most people who are happy are complacent – they like the status quo.
Interesting. This seems to make sense, but I wonder what others think about this. If I had to pick out the happiest (most fulfilled) person in the world, I would probably pick a Buddhist monk who has been meditating for years (I base this on the works of Daniel Goleman).
But they aren’t really known for helping humanity make a lot of technological or social progress, are they (with a few exceptions). So the question then becomes, what is a rational goal of one’s life? Achieving more and making progress, or finding fulfillment with what you have? This is probably a personal choice, but I would love to have others’ thoughts here.
exactly
I’ve been living in Barcelona, Spain, for all my life, and I have always dreamed of moving someday to NYC; I was there on holiday for two weeks, and yes, I went to the tourist attractions but also wandered around Brooklyn, even the Bronx, trying to find the real NYC flavour… and yes, I found it, terribly disgusting, in some way, but terribly attractive… and now I’m trying to make a plan to move to New York in a near future. After all, Barcelona is already insanely expensive for the salarys we are paid here, so…
Holy crap, I got an 89% on the quiz, even though:
a) I don’t even live in the US
b) I have no intention of living in a city that even resembles New York
c) I hate Sex in the City, Ugly Betty and other similar pieces of crap
Two essays that you must read: Joan Didion’s “Goodbye to All That” and Meghan Daum’s “My Misspent Youth.”
I’ve been in New York for 8 years and would leave tomorrow, if I could, and not look back.
I live in London and i think they are very similar, although i’ve yet to visit NY. Not sure where the fascination comes from, probably from movies!?
the only downside is that it is much harder for UK citizens to get into the US then it is for US citizens to come to the UK!
That’s because no one in the US wants to live in the UK. Supply and demand my friend.
It is far tougher to get into US, than to most other developed countries (even when comparing with other Western nations that face the threat of terrorism, if any). This is regardless of demand and supply. The bureaucracy and other government mechanisms are simply exhausting!
Excuse me, having kids is hard? I thought you were going to say how rewarding having children are when I first read that. Only unwanted children are viewed as a burden, our 12 day old daughter is the light of our world, the best thing that ever happenned to my wife and me, former WI residents who fled due to the extreme unfriendly family atmosphere in Taxconsin.
Good luck with your business, you will need it. You picked one of the most business oppressive states in the nation to open one up in.
It may be rewarding, but does not mean it is easy. Studies have shown numerous times, that happiness levels decline when couples have kids:
http://current.com/items/89061892_having-children-makes-you-unhappy.htm
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-565230/Having-children-ruin-marriage-experts-say.html
http://parenting.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/04/01/why-does-anyone-have-children/
And from the last link:
”
There is a widespread belief in every human culture that children bring happiness. When people are asked to think about parenthood – either imagining future offspring or thinking about their current ones – they tend to conjure up pictures of healthy babies, handsome boys or gorgeous-looking girls who are flawless in every way…
…Why do we have such a rosy view about parenthood? One possible explanation for this, according to Daniel Gilbert (2006), is that the belief that "children bring happiness" transmits itself much more successfully from generation to generation than the belief that "children bring misery." …people who believe that there is no joy in parenthood – and who thus stop having them – are unlikely to be able to pass on their belief much further beyond their own generation.
Bringing up children is a huge responsibility, that takes time, money and effort (physical-mental-emotional). If you invest all that time and effort and worry in your children, then of course it will be hard. I haven’t met anyone who finds it easy and simple to bring up children. Have you?
I guess I’m rare, I don’t even want to visit New York.
Sorry Jack, perhaps it’s because I come from a Catholic/religious tradition, but my mother and my wife’s mother to this VERY DAY both say that their children are the best thing that ever happenned to them.
Throw me all the articles and BS academic studies you want, but at the end of the day, I am LIVING IT. In fact, I would say the opposite, I was happy to have a baby but had NO IDEA how much fun it would be. I can’t wait to have more!
Granted, Penelope was not fit for marriage and divorced women have it much harder than married women, so her frame of reference is different than mine is.
“best thing that ever happened to them” doesn’t mean it was easy. Life is full of difficult worthwhile pursuits. Don’t blame such tripe on your religion.
Nobody here said it’s not fun, enriching and wonderful. But none of that has anything to do with it being easy.
Indeed I contend that most things that better your life are the result of struggle, pursuit and accomplishment.
“not fit for marriage” is a truly low and foul thing to say of another human.
I strongly suggest sir that you re-read the book of Mathew.
Please do not judge Catholicism on the words of such people. They are merely themselves and would be thus under any heading.
Mike, thank you for saying what I was going to say:
1. “best thing that ever happened to them” doesn’t mean it was easy. Nobody here said it’s not fun, enriching and wonderful. But none of that has anything to do with it being easy.
2. Don’t blame such tripe on your religion.
Dan, I don’t see the link between your kids and your religion. I am sure that even some Muslims, Hindus and Mormons love their kids. Doesn’t make it easy to rear them. You being born into, and/or believing in Christ does not make you a better father as opposed to one who believes in Krishna.
Big cities are boring, they are created not for humanbeings, just for ROBOTS: dangerous environment, alcohol, junk food, crowds of people, security cameras, lack of fresh air and so on. In the future we would need even more robots to clean the mess.
Loved it. Perfectly true from my perspective and dead on. And yes I lived in NYC. I did not have that much money either but that was no an impediment. The optimizer in me felt satisfied :). How did you come up or find about about the “optimizer category”?
It is funny how people that never lived in NYC see people from NYC. Rich, rude, etc. I wonder if they accept stereotypes about their own kind with the same ease.
re optimizer: I think that you mean a “maximizer”. Optimizers are those who find the balance between quality and effort to achieve that quality. Maximizers want maximum quality and will sacrifice anything to get things exactly as they want them, even beyond what those things are worth for them from an emotional payback standpoint.
But small point, what you say about needing to compromise is true to NY and to any high-density city I have lived in.
g makes a very good point about “optimizers” vs “maximizers.” The true New Yorker – and I say this from 18 years in the metro area – needs to be a maximizer. Needs to pursue their own The Best, and this is important, be ready to do so past the point of diminishing returns. The desire has to be beyond rational – to be in your gut.
I could never live in NYC itself; I did for one year, long ago, and it totally overwhelmed me. Some days, just being within 20 mi of all this gut-driven, rat-race obsession is too much.
What keeps me around is the fruit of those gut obsessions, all the marvelous things they produce and keep alive. Whether you can be enriched by that without being subsumed by what it takes, I don’t know yet.
You’re right. Thanks. I made the change in the post.
-Penelope
Hello, I do not know whether this is a good place to post a general comments but as I am not abble to find a better one, I try it here!
I found your blog a few weeks ago, through a link from one of Slate’s blogs, and I have been a great fan ever since.I love the way you write, your special mixture of dry humour, strong opinions and open emotions, and I love the contents of your posts. I have learned many captivating things trough your posts themselves, and through the links that you provide. It is quite unusual to have someone not only present her view of a topic, but also the research associated, and it is something that I really appreciate!
Thank you very much for this wonderful blog :-)
Emma
How is Slate?
Was my wording incorrect? English is not my mother tongue.
Jack/Penelope,
Why hide behind the name “Jack.” I know it’s you via your link to New York Times articles and your reference to Judaism.
Anyone who believes in God or Christ has a strong belief in life and children are the epitome of EVERYTHING life has to offer.
Easy? Children aren’t anymore difficult than anything else in life, in fact quite easier and more rewarding than going to work everyday for someone else, so I have NO idea what you are talking about.
The fact that you neglect your children, like you neglected your marriage, is clearly not bringing you happiness in your life.
Good luck with a business in Taxconsin, you will NEED IT!
Dan, I am roaring out with laughter at your insulting and stupid idea. If you have a hypothesis, at least state it as one, instead of as a fact.
Now go and look at the other recent posts that PT wrote, and my comments on them. I must be one of the commentors whom PT hates the most.
Good God, are you drunk at 6 pm? If not, then this was a really bad attempt at trying to be funny.
I love your blog and I am a 20 something who would love to live in NY! I’m from OC, but having moved around and been softened by the So Cal weather I think I wouldn’t move there unless I was with a partner. xoxo
I was just in nyc on a biz trip and actually read/took this quiz in Time Out New York magazine! It was very appropriate for me because every time I visit the city, I want to move there – although I know my June and October visits aren't a good indication of “normal” city life. I was hoping this article would offer some interesting insight into my chances of NYC success, but no luck. This post however, was just what I was looking for – many thanks!
NYC is a cesspool, and a pit. And it is full of liberals. A meteor slamming into it would make it a much better place.
We just got granted permission to come over to your side of the pond with our music studios in hand, can barely contain my excitement
I must say that Penelope’s article is dead on in most aspects…
I am born and raised in New York, my mother an immigrant who came from eastern europe with her family in her 20’s, and my father who moved up from the south around the same time. Nevertheless, I have a drive and work ethic that is sometimes exhausting, and I am never happy just sitting in one place and not getting something done. And one thing that NY does to you is make you used to not settling for ANYTHING… you have the best of the best of the best at your fingertips… people that think they are rich cannot understand the wealth that you see in NY, families that have been part of building one of the largest economic centers of the world….
Many 20 somethings have moved to NYC in the past 5 years or so, I would say because of the recent growth in popularity due to safety and trendy movies such as Sex and the City and shows like Gossip Girl. I think that the aura of the city has changed; the “do or die” vibe has been replaced by the “trendy hipster trying to be uber-cool” mentality (not my thing or many other native ny’ers…. these transplants that think they are in a CW11 sitcom are the butt of endless jokes)…
However, hipsters aside, it offers the most of any city I have been to, including London, Los Angeles and Chicago… having the best of the best does come with a price… 1800 per month for a studio in the hood in brooklyn (and I mean hood… across the street from a methadone clinic and constant muggings) seems like a deal at the time because of our view of the city, but in hind-site, the 1 hour plus commute on the subway each way plus 20 minute walk would beat anyone down in 10 degree weather… so you decide.
Hi Penelope, I just had to tell you i love your post. I have been trying to figure out whether i can make the leap and move to NYC or if I belong there. Sounds like i’m definitely an optimizer…. I linked you on my blog maybe it will help someone else. Although no one reads my blog so that may not help. :)
Just wanted to say great job with the blog, today is my first visit here and I’ve enjoyed reading your posts so far :)
Juan
This post couldn’t ring more true. I came to realize all of this when I moved to New York in the beginning of May and couldn’t even last a summer–now I’m back home in Phoenix. I had always wanted to move to NYC ever since I was a little girl. And I went there for an unpaid internship–and I ended up being completely miserable. EVERYTHING is a chore and I didn’t have the means to score a very good job, to eventually get to the top of my field. I tried (went on like 15 interviews). I want to get into television and its soooo competitive, and there is virtually no way to get in unless you know someone–which I don’t. :(
I have always considered myself an optimizer (and still do), but I also don’t want to forgo happiness to have an “optimized” interesting life. Even though, things didn’t work out for me in NYC, I will strive to have an interesting life. Having the advantages of NYC was not worth all the crap that people put up with living there. I always thought living in NYC would equate to happiness–simply bc you have the best of everything–“the cream of the crop,” and it was a let down when it wasn’t.
But come to find out you’re right, people did not seem happy in the slightest. Everyone on the subway looked like a bunch of miserable zombies. I’m just speaking for me and perhaps I’m still a little bitter that I couldn’t handle it (I left bc I was unable to find work), but I like to be happy :)
I realize how very difficult it actually is, and I have a tremendous amount of respect for people who can do it. Who knows? Maybe I’ll try again someday…
I just made my first visit to New York (I’m from Santa Fe) at the end of May. I was one of those people who had glamorized NYC from afar and once I was there, I couldn’t understand why people want to live there, especially if you’re from a wide-open Western state. I felt claustrophobic – all those buildings closing in on you and you can’t see the way out. I did not find that people were rude at all, but the pace of life is extremely fast. Also, everyone seems to be “on the make” and I don’t just mean for sex/romance – everyone is always trying to cut a deal, make a contact, get somewhere different than where they are. It was exhausting after awhile. After 6 days I was more than happy to go home.
I am definitely not an optimizer. I like my quiet life in my nice house on a quiet street, with my husband and child. My life is good. I am more fearful of bad things happening that could change it than I am anxious that I won’t be able to make changes to upgrade it. Like a lot of young women I had harbored fantasies of moving to New York after college but fortunately got married and settled down pretty fast. I would never have made it in NYC – just spent a couple of miserable years (if that) and then gone home. It is not for everyone, most definitely. Young people sans family who are thinking about moving there – I strongly recommend an extended visit before making the leap. It is a fast, exciting city but there are a lot of very smart young people there waiting tables or working in clothing stores waiting for their life to start happening. People who, in other cities, would probably be at the top of their game with a family and a great career. It’s the quintessential “small fish in a big pond” situation. If you want to have fun (which is not a bad goal in your early 20s), NYC seems great. If you want a home, family, and stability, maybe not. It’s pretty far from the urban utopia it gets billed as, in my opinion.
If you don’t want that constant scrambling and in-your-faceness, New York isn’t for you. But I feel it’s getting to the point where people with cultural or intellectual interests are going to be isolated and alone if they’re not in a highly urban area, and maybe even if they’re not withing spitting distance of NY itself.
Even with the internet, people’s RL social and professional networks are becoming more important. You can’t meet anyone umpteen dozen miles away, and it’s getting so you can’t get any work that way, either. And if you believe people like Richard Florida, it’s going to be more and more difficult to make a living outside dense urban settings. Florida thinks we’re heading for a socially segregated nation of laidback dull-normals with tree-shaded houses and backyards, and permanently keyed-up, on-the-make creatives and achievers, always crowding for elbow room – even inside their own heads.
I hope to hell he’s wrong, but I don’t see much evidence of it. Anyplace that isn’t vibrant to the point of near chaos is quickly getting suffocated by mass market culture. Is it possible the information class are going to be refugees in their own country?
Caution! Most people cannot make the adjust to living in New York City – Manhattan – the Big Apple mainly because it is not representative of any other place in America, it might as well be another little country. Since NYC is a tough place to make a life particularly because of the sheer numbers of people, one would have to be strong willed, flexible, street smart and quick. In other words if anyone is used to living in the slow, stop and reverse towns of the good old USA, think twice especially if English is the only language ever spoken or heard. There’s a reason behind the lyrics of “New York – New York” “if I can make it there, I’ll make it anywhere…”
exactly! And for me, if you are living in ny, adapted it’s lifestyle, conquered yourself by making it here in a daily basis, you are a new yorker.
for me… interesting life is the foundation of my happiness. both are related to each other and are not seperate units. nyc is amazing!
NYC is a great place to visit, but I wouldn’t want to live there. It is the ultimate “rat race”. But many of my New York resume clients wouldn’t have it any other way. They love the culture, excitement and opportunity that NYC has to offer.
Hey,
Well, I think I might have those qualities to some degree, but proabably not enough to thrive in the competition in NY.
Bit of a side note, I’ve recently been getting into learning percussion, and one of the things I have found in my youtube searching are the NY bucket drummers who busk in the subways there. Amazing, even the buskers over there are optimizers.
Would love to spend a few months there none the less even if not to live for a longer period.
very well put, all of this. im surprised im still so happy here after 4 years when i didnt think i’d made it alive through my first one!
I’ve been to NY, wouldn’t want to live there (I’m too mellow and laid-back). Grew up in LA, currently living in SF East Bay (wouldn’t want to live in SF), lovin’ it here- although, I wish there were huge areas of forest right out my door, I love redwoods.
Can we please just stop swinging from New York’s dick? I’m tired of hearing how much better they are than everyone else. It’s just sad and depressing. They even have shirts telling you how much you should love them. It’s like the egotistical person bragging all the time. I don’t want to be around that kind of person or look up to them, I pity them. Focus on creating great experiences and supporting people who make great experiences in your city and watch it grow. If all the smart and talented people buy into the fantasy and move to Bettendorf Iowa than would bettendorf be the greatest city on earth or just a vacuum for misguided talent? New York is just another city and by an accident of history and a lot of accessible ports has been raised to mythical legend in people’s minds. Times Square is obnoxious, overblown consumer shithole and smells like a sewer. A true microcosm of New York.
I have a combined household income of $85,000. I pay $1,200 rent for a 2 bedroom in a sucky neighborhood in the Bronx. Noise in the summer along with all the high crime. I have to pay for private school because despite Bloomberg’s assertions the public schools stink. Let your good kids play outside? Fat chance; they pick up bad habits, get hurt or something to that affect. I loved to live here, but times keep changing and its truly hard to live here. Want to go to a museum? Packed with people with long waits for everything. Same for shopping and driving. This City only caters to the wealthy and only they can truly enjoy it.
Thanks Penelope for a great post. I will be going soon to NY for the first time and I can’t wait. Reading this really helps me think about live out there and if I could make it in NY.
Thanks
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Mixitupmagazine.com
You’re not a New Yorker unless you were born and raised there. If you move to New York and become the bedrock of the town (Andy Warhol), the best you can be is an honorary New Yorker. Growing up with huge crowds on the street, kids from all over the world in your class, taking the subway by yourself at age 8, seeing drag queens, homeless people, and being bombarded with every other visual/olfactory/auditory delight you can imagine from the time you are born–DOES SOMETHING TO YOU. I am unlike all my suburban cousins. And so are all of you who moved to NYC for a job and now consider yourselves New Yorkers. You’re not so forget that. Did you learn to drive at 16? Were you able to identify the sound of a cricket before the age of say, 21? You’re not a New Yorker. On to rudeness. We New Yorkers love our town. We are the ones helping to carry the baby carriage up the subway stairs. The jerk who almost knocked me down while doing that? He’s from London, or Dallas, or Toronto. Why is he such a jerk when he’s so lovely at home? Because he thinks he needs to act like that to survive in the big bad city. New Yorkers are wonderful and helpful. They are the diplomats for their town and they kow it. The people who move there? Not so much. On to high standards. Yes, we love the best, that’s the way it is. Yes, we’re fast. Fast is not rude. Fast is fast. Learn the difference and speed up while you’re at it. We like the A game. We like it better if you like it too. New York, 400 years and counting.
Lisa, I completely agree.
It may seem narcissistic or unfriendly to outsiders, that NYers are constantly repeating “You are not a New Yorker unless you were born here.” But it’s absolutely true. I’m even willing to expand the horizon and say that you are a New Yorker if you decide to raise kids here.
But you are NOT a New Yorker if you come here to live during your 20’s and 30’s. And saying so is triggering to NY natives; because we are constantly having to compete with you people for apartments, jobs, even walking space on the sidewalk, when you are not invested in our community; in the public school system; in the long-term development and family relationships that we grew up with and are attached to, whether or not we have abnormally strong ambition and drive.
And so, simply put, it is much more culturally sensitive to say “I currently live in New York”, than “I am a New Yorker.”
And also calling us rude is pretty rude. It’s much nicer to say “what is considered polite there is different than in other part of the country.”
To say you are not a New Yorker unless you are born and raised in the city is just ridicolous to me. Many New Yorkers have immigrated in their 20’s or even 30’s and this is what make the city so wonderful and full of diversity. How would you have authentic cultures from different countries if all new Yorkers were born and raised there? It would be a city like every other city! Me as a foreigner- I have always loved New York so deeply since I find it the only place to be where your accent or ethnicity doesn’t matter- you’re here and it makes you a New Yorker! Too bad you don’t feel this way… Oh well… ;)
I agree with Gemini_0176!
@arielle: “But you are NOT a New Yorker if you come here to live during your 20’s
and 30’s. And saying so is triggering to NY natives; because we are
constantly having to compete with you people for apartments, jobs, even
walking space on the sidewalk, when you are not invested…BLAH BLAH BLAH”
^^This right here is utter bitter foolishness. It is exactly because of these “people” that New York is the vibrant multicultural city it is today. I am from London and I see New York as a “bigger-london” and so a home away from home. I will be moving to New York after my university studies AND get my hand on a Job over there because thats just what you do when you achieve a degree of some sort…Get it over it. :)
xoxo
I agree with Gemini_0176!
@arielle: “But you are NOT a New Yorker if you come here to live during your 20’s
and 30’s. And saying so is triggering to NY natives; because we are
constantly having to compete with you people for apartments, jobs, even
walking space on the sidewalk, when you are not invested…BLAH BLAH BLAH”
^^This right here is utter bitter foolishness. It is exactly because of these “people” that New York is the vibrant multicultural city it is today. I am from London and I see New York as a “bigger-london” and so a home away from home. I will be moving to New York after my university studies AND get my hand on a Job over there because thats just what you do when you achieve a degree of some sort…Get it over it. :)
xoxo
New York isn’t a city, it’s a state. I am a New Yorker but not a rude/overly cocky downstate New Yorker. Every city is unique and when you get too wrapped up in NYC, then you forget there is another world with people who probably aren’t jerks at all.
An below, competing with “you people” for apartments and such, you’re competing with yourselves. It’s a massive city. It’s a massive city with a pretty cool culture. So silly…
New York isn’t a city, it’s a state. I am a New Yorker but not a rude/overly cocky downstate New Yorker. Every city is unique and when you get too wrapped up in NYC, then you forget there is another world with people who probably aren’t jerks at all.
An below, competing with “you people” for apartments and such, you’re competing with yourselves. It’s a massive city. It’s a massive city with a pretty cool culture. So silly…
I sooo agree with you. I’m not an ‘optimizer’ or a ‘maximizer’ or a whatever. I’m just someone who grew up in NYC – wasn’t born here, but came at age 6 or 7 (I forgot). Mom taught me to ride the rails at maybe age 9 or so. Busy streets felt peaceful – zen. People aren’t rude at all – they (me included) are very kind and helpful. New Yorkers love to talk. Especially to strangers. My dad who wasn’t a NY’er said that he’d traveled and lived all over the US (and the world) and the two friendliest US cities were Oklahoma City and NYC. The least friendly was Las Vegas. I like to live in NYC because all of the sad, neurotic, misfit faces remind me of me and that’s comforting. When I lived in other places I never felt like I fit in. And I always had to explain myself (‘I”m not arguing with you – it’s just that I’m from NY and that’s how we talk’). Last but not least… NY’ers have one of the lowest happiness/life satisfaction rates of major metro areas. They also have one of the lowest rates of suicide. Cities with high happiness rates (think Scandinavian) have very high suicide rates. If you are neurotic, temperamental, oversensitive and high-strung, it’s soothing to live here, believe it or not. Thanks Lisa, for your comment. I really appreciated it.
I could not imagine living in New York at this point, right now the best thing for me is to grow my business in the medium sized city that i am in first and be one of the top in my field here before going to NY, or any other large city, for that matter.
I don’t want to move to an extremely competitive place until i know exactly how to be on the top of the top.
Patrick De Amorim
http://www.patrickdeamorim.com
Having either lived, worked, or schooled in NYC for over 12 years, I have to agree with this. Especially about the cost.
Wow Lisa. This isn’t about whether or not you are a new yorker. Typical new yorker.
And i totally disagree. You don’t have to be born in new york to be a new yorker. That’s ridiculous. In fact, most “New Yorkers”, most of the people who MADE NEW YORK weren’t from new york. Does the president have to be born in Washington D.C.?
Anyway, I think there is a huge point being missed here.
WHY do you want to move to NYC? What for?
I’m from the South, Lived in L.A. and will soon live in NY. My life is the arts so it makes sense.
It is ignorant to say L.A. sucks, NY sucks, etc etc. It’s about what you want and what you are willing to sacrifice for it. I hate hearing all the nonsense about how L.A. has better weather and nice beaches. I hated that everyday I woke up it was the exact same everyday. I must have went to the beach ONCE while i lived there (4 years), and that was only because I was with someone visiting who wanted to go.
I could go on and on, but everything about NYC excites me and makes me want to wake up and od my best, no matter what. Strive, thrive, etc…and yeah, people an NYC are rude. It’s just that simple. But it’s okay, NYC is a great place to live if you don’t want the norm. Kind of tired but whatever. To each his own.
I was born in 1980 and grew up in the Times Square area, which was a lot different back then. As a child, I prided myself on my urbanity, my intellect, my sophistication and my artsiness. I’m not finding these things in the New York City of 2009. I went to high school for four years at an elite all-girls boarding school in Troy, NY, fifteen minutes outside of Albany. When I came back, both I and my city had changed.
What I loved most about Times Square growing up was its incorrigible wildness. It was as close to anarchy as one would ever get here in the States, and it was paradise. The rarefied air of the Upper East Side never seemed like New York to me. To me, New York was the postmodern abstract art of an abandoned building site, dilapidated and blanketed with graffiti. It was the streetwalker digging into her pocket to pay for another prostitute’s dinner if she was broke. It was the bands of artists roaming city streets like packs of gypsies, dressed in clothing that did not imitate fashion but created it anew, painting and writing and sculpting inspired and original works that pushed the envelope for what could be done in art, not just for the sake of pushing the envelope, but for the sake of pushing the frontiers of human creative potential. When I was twelve, I enrolled on a full scholarship at Emma Willard School, the aforesaid elite all-girls boarding high school school in the suburbs of Albany, to get away from my abusive home. Other girls decorated their rooms with Elmo dolls and cheesy French art deco posters and flowered Laura Ashley sheets. I hung a picture of an art installation composed of a bra made of surgical masks and a pair of panties made with a Brillo pad at the crotch. This was New York to me. Now the Emma Willard girls, all grown up, have taken over. This is not a city I even want to excel in anymore.
New York was for the poor back then. It isn’t anymore. Yes, it had its drawbacks- the drug dealers, the pickpockets, the muggers and criminals- but those of us who truly loved the city were able to take that with a grain of salt for the sake of the cultural and creative richness that such anarchy allowed to foster. I have suffered from a debilitating cancer of the soul provoked by the loneliness and despair I feel being surrounded by spoiled investment bankers and trust-fund “artists” who can never understand the wealth of life’s experience that a girl who grew up having to fight for and earn everything she ever got might have accumulated, who can never value my scrappiness, my lower-middle-class sophistication, the whip-smart intellect I cultivate in concert with a poverty-originated consciousness of social justice and compassion for the suffering. Impoverished, disabled, female and biracial, I live outside of most current New Yorkers’ conception of what is possible; most of them can’t even fathom someone like me existing. My poverty hinders me from doing so, but, if I could, I would leave New York City so fast I’d leave a trail of flames burning in my tracks. There’s gotta be somewhere I’d belong, somewhere where people don’t venerate money and power as moral imperatives, somewhere where people have soul. New York has lost its soul. And it’s lost my love.
Patti Smith was on the Colbert Nation the other night and she was echoing that same sentiment of yours- that New York is only for the rich now and that it has changed…. and is no longer welcoming to the young artist.
I’m not from NY but I’m almost crying after this. More because that loss of chances for someone who walked a line, coming from that low-middle class and feeling that misunderstanding of those school girls taking over without really knowing deeply what the word “struggle” exactly means. I think that’s not only NY, streetlife is becoming an institution where more or less rich kids can buy their own picture and their own pose and believe that that’s it.
Beautifully written and expressed. Thank you for sharing. Come visit Upstate New York if you ever get the chance. You may find yourself at home….
I love New York… Manhattan is my home, always. It is expensive, but it is nowhere near unhappy. You can be happy without being complacent. New York is where the color is, it is where the art is, the modern and the historic, the people, the food, the clothes, the drugs, the magazines and the luxury. It’s where you can blend into any hue of the spectrum.
How do you come up with so many creative ideas? :P Anyway….great post and interesting off course… ;)
It’s been five years since I moved to New York, chasing a girl and the chance of national-level media job. I was bored back home and thought, what the heck, I’m going all-in. The girl didn’t work out, but after a lot of hustle, the job did. People consider it a “cool job,” and it certainly has a lot perks, but as long as that job is in midtown Manhattan, I don’t see a future there. Every weekday morning I have to take a deep breath before jumping in. The trains are crowded and uncomfortable and the minute you get to your 42nd St. stop, you’ve basically gotta start running, or else get run over. Then it’s out to the street where innocent-enough tourists clog the sidewalks (our highways), emergency vehicles and huge trucks scream by, and construction scaffoldings seem to be everywhere. Then it’s off to a 15-hour workday, responding to the whims of indecisive clients and bosses, while operating under the umbrella of a massive conglomerate and its shady, exploitive business practices (hmm, maybe my job isn’t that “cool”). I’m a tough person, with a high tolerance for discomfort, but I constantly think, life is too short and the planet is too beautiful to live like this.
But New York can be whatever you want it to be. That romanticized vision you have of the place can be yours, and plenty of people obviously get a thrill living here. It is unlike anywhere else in the country. The catch is that you’ll have to endure much of what I described above on a nearly daily basis, no matter where in the city you live or work. But if you decide to move here, and you’re not feeling it after a year or two, I recommend trusting your gut and getting out before you’re in too deep, because, despite everything, leaving New York is somehow one of the hardest things to do.
Hi Woody! Just so you know, my hubby and I live in a central Ohio suburb. We are ‘blessed’ with being able to work from home (after many years of a 1 hour commute in a car, each way!). Now our day starts at 7 a.m. and is NEVER over until 7:30 p.m.. We too work for a large company – not headquartered in NY and has nothing to do with Wall Street. The fact is we work HARD – VERY HARD – and we aren’t living in NY, so if you like what you do, don’t believe that because you move back to a smaller city that anything less will be asked of you… that’s just not realistic. One thing I have learned in life is that work is what you make of it. On the other hand, if you miss ‘small town, rural or suburban America., then by all means, move back to your home. We miss our home (NYC) & can’t wait to get back this fall.
Good Luck!
I moved here 20+ years ago from NY. I live in a small Central OH town – the epitome of the OSU Buckeye’s & Small Town America. A place with conservative values and with a stress on pro-life politics (after all caring for children is supposed to be the most important thing in the world!) I believed the hype and came expecting to find wonderfully, friendly, hospitable people. I expected everyone to be giving and caring – and to help me if something went wrong.
But you know what – it was hype! There is good and bad everywhere! There is little difference between the residents of the uppen income suburban town I live in and the folks who have money in NYC (in any of the borough) – with the exception that 200K here buys a high quality of life and 500K in NYC finds a reasonable quality of life. Keep in mind that what it takes to make 200K here is the equivalent of what it takes to make $500K in NY.
The kids we came here with all returned to NYC for college and we are about to return ourselves. We miss the culture, the food, the public transit (yup – we really miss subways LOL); the diversity of people (people here are White, Black, Mexican or Asian – and those who identify themselves as Asian or Mexican are NOT considered Americans by the Whites or Blacks here). In NY I had Black, Italian, Irish, Cuban, Bahamian, Jewish, and lots of “All American Mutt” friends – and we all consider ourselves and each other Americans. Most of all we miss the diversity of ideas – where FOX News and MSNBC are in walking distance of one another.
Try NYC- you might like it!
Well yeah, NYC is kind of a paradise if you live in Ohio ;)
I lived in the midwest, and the quality of life is very nice there. You have to be beau coup rich to live in NYC, esp in Manhattan. It’s a city made interesting by the people it serves. I think there is something for everyone in NYC. And people who can’t make it there and have to leave, find it real hard to leave. I wouldn’t say it is the happiest place or the unhappiest. You’ll meet creeps but you’ll also meet some world-changers. Like I said, something for everyone. My goal is to visit it more from NJ and see the museums etc.
I would fit in perfectly. Toronto is nice and all, but I’m dying to move to NYC once I’m a little older.
Getting a job in NYC was surprisingly easy.
I got my Green Card and moved from small town
Canada. I got hired on the spot because I had
the experience. No himming and hawing over references.
You don’t need a car and the cost and problems.
Time is money I have little. Canadians waste so
much time in the hiring process.
I agree to 1 and 3, but not all the time. New York is very interesting, but I wouldn’t like to live there all the time, there are many other interesting places as well.
New Yorkers don’t prefer an interesting life over a happy life. We prefer an interesting life over an EASY life. New Yorkers are willing to trade some discomfort for more excitement, more opportunities, more color. I’ve lived in New York all my life and find that the vibrancy and interesting-ness of the city keeps me happy. A day or two out in the suburbs and I’m ready to pull my hair out, or turn to drugs for solace. I’ve traveled all over America and to Europe and Asia, and I always find myself missing New York. Even Hawaii pales in comparison for me (though it was quite beautiful).
In other places there are much more limitations (why does the subway shut down at midnight in so many cities?) I like the sense of independence and freedom I have when I trek 40 blocks to get from point A to point B. Sure, I could drive, but I have the freedom not to if it pleases me.
New York also has a ton of history, for those who like that sort of thing, but you don’t get the feeling that it’s being smacked in your face at every turn (like in philly).
This post would be incomplete without reference to the biggest asset in NYC: the people. There’s nothing quite like living in the most diverse part of the country.
I could go on forever about why New York makes people happy. The point is, You can be happy in New York, but you have to actually value the things the city has to offer and be willing to deal with the inevitable rough patches.
In regard to the exorbitant cost of living, a lot really depends on how you live. If you intend to live like those ladies on Sex and the City, good luck. If you have more modest expectations, you can do fine. Ask a long-time new yorker for advice on how to live cheaply in the city and you’ll probably get a deluge of advice on how NOT to blow $2000 in a week (it’s the maximizer impulse at work).
I think some of the earlier posts expressing frustration with 20-something out-of-towners transplanting to New York and calling themselves New Yorkers is that they come from different cultures and may have different mindsets. It’s kind of like the way people from Italy react when Americans tell them they had Italian food at Olive Garden.
“A day or two out in the suburbs and I’m ready to pull my hair out, or turn to drugs for solace.”
Don’t kid yourself. Enjoyment of or preference for hustle and bustle is one thing; inability to cope without it is not a talent.
What about the gentrified landscape of today’s NYC
I don’t expect you to read this wall of text (unless you want to) but at least watch the video. Then you can read the “wall of text” if you so desire.
link to video on YOUTUBE
THE URBAN EYE PART 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ome6yVU2fTE
My videos have been embraced by several popular sites about old NY including Jeremiah Moss’s popular blog “Vanishing NY” and “The Gothamist”
Please check out my work! I also have many comedy videos dealing with the wacky wonderful characters I’ve encountered on the streets of NYC in the 90’s…some on the THYRDEYE CHANNEL and more on my MrJerryRio channel
THIS IS A REVIEW AND DESCRIPTION OF THE URBAN EYE FROM A GREAT SITE CALLED CITY OF STRANGERS
Over the holidays, reader Jerry Rio sent me this charming doc about changing mid-90 – ²s New York: The Urban Eye. This ‘video time-capsule’ was made in 1995, when market forces, and Rudy Giuliani, were shifting the city into its present phase. Jerry Rio interviews people on the street and a mock-serious narrator charts the ‘unofficial landmarks . . . which are disappearing from the New York landscape, one after the other”. From the site description:
“Join your host Jerry Rio as he takes you on a nostalgic tour as he explores the disappearing icons of this metropolis and find out what New Yorkers think about unchecked development and the corporate homogenization that has altered and destroyed much of the uniqueness of the New York City landscape”
The first video swings between shots of signs and cityscapes of ‘a city that was once a great manufacturing center’. From the first interview, with a self-described ‘student of painted signs’, in front of what had been the Wannamaker Department Store:
“I call (what’s happening now) Facadomy — when they take something traditional and change it completely.”
“They have a lot of these retro-theme parks now”
“That’s appalling — if you’re going to change something, they should do it radically. Otherwise it just becomes some kitschy thing. ”
And
“New Yorkers tend to look down, I think it would be better if they looked up . . . ”
From another interview with a man who sums up what is to come:
“I hope the whole city will turn into a giant Wal-Mart. I want no help for struggling companies . . .”
The segment concludes with amazing footage of shop windows, which the narrator refers to as ‘incidental art . . . the never ending combinations of graphics, products and objects, result in the combination that is the true Dadaist collage.’ Look for it at 11:10.
Part 2 focuses on midtown signage and shop window views which have largely disappeared from today’s New York, including the much lamented Howard Johnson’s, and Times Square: “the veritable epicenter of the urban universe . . .the Deuce!” which, at the time of filming had been “frozen in transitional limbo for many years.” From there they focus on a luncheonette, and a look back at the Hawaii Kai and other lost kitsch (the abandoned storefront of Hawaii Kai lived on underneath the omnipresent billboard for ‘Cats!’). Jerry then goes on to interview the owner of Papaya King, Peter Poulous, underneath the original art-deco Papaya King sign, before the end credits pan out over amazing footage of signs and storefronts, many of whNYC Vanishing Landmarks..a 1995 video time capsule…The Urban EyE
ich are long gone.
Most interesting to me was the portrait of a New York already in transition. Even by the mid-90 – ²s, gentrification, mollification, were already changing the city’s character, starting in Times Square and radiating outward, We can see the roots of it here in this fascinating mini-portrait of an already vanishing city.
Thanks for your time….Jerry Rio…watch THE URBAN EYE parts 1 and 2
NYC Vanishing Landmarks..a 1995 video time capsule…The Urban EyE
link to video on YOUTUBE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ome6yVU2fTE
Haha sorry but this is a load of shit, i will have to agree with the posters though. Optimizers? you mean those sad and lonely, angry people who do nothing but brag about their salary and their new hair? Oh please, personally i think most new yorkers are the opposite, they may be ambitious, but that doesnt mean they cant be happy with where they are because its not “the best”. I think the attraction to the city from young people isnt because they can be optimizers, but because its like someone said, a melting pot full of energy and culture and the best way to make friends with people who are exactly like you. That is all, optimizers? lmao
Since I was a young girl I always wanted to live in NYC. My intention was to graduate high school in my hometown and go to an NYC college. I wanted to know what it was like to live the life of a New Yorker, ride the subways, walk everywhere, hail a taxi cab, and yes even the struggle to make it in a big city like New York. Unfortunately, because of my decisions, I had a baby and was married by the age of 18…goodbye college…goodbye NYC dream. I had the pleasure of visiting NYC for the first time in 2007. The culture, diversity, history, food, and the speed of life is simply AMAZING. I will agree with other reviews, New Yorkers are VERY nice and helpful…there may be a bad apple in there somewhere just like anywhere else. But I found a lot of help when I needed directions to a nearby attraction. I just went back to NYC last month to visit, and I must say that my heart skips a beat when I can see the city lights from the airplane. My days started off on a good note when I woke up in the morning to the sounds of car horns honking and the sounds of hammers banging in a nearby construction zone. If I could afford it, I would live there in a heartbeat. My daughter is now talking about going to an NYC college after her high school graduation, and I really hope she does. This will give her the opportunity I never had. Whether she likes it or not once she’s there, she’ll be able to experience living in one of the BEST cities in the world.