Don’t try to dodge the recession with grad school
A recession is typically a good time for graduate schools. Their application pool goes up because people see them as safe shelter from the storm. The scariest part of a down economy is the idea of having no income. Of course, graduate school does not solve for that. But graduate school does solve the second most scary thing about a bad economy: lack of a learning curve.
The more desperate you are for a job, the more likely you are to take a job that doesn’t teach you what you want to learn. And then you get to that job and you think, “Grad school could solve this problem.” But in fact, grad school creates larger, and more insurmountable problems. And some the problems you’re trying to solve with grad school might not be problems at all.
1. Grad school pointlessly delays adulthood.
The best thing you can do for yourself is take time to figure out who you are and where you fit in the world. No one teaches you that in school. You need to do it yourself. Grad school is a way to delay this process, rather than move you forward, according to Thomas Benton of the Chronicle of Higher Education. So instead of dodging tough questions by going back to school, try being lost. It’s normal, and honest, and you will end up with more self-knowledge and less debt than your grad-school counterparts, and in many cases, you will be similarly qualified for your next big job.
2. PhD programs are pyramid schemes
It’s very hard to get a job teaching at a university. And if you are not going to teach, why are you getting a degree? You don’t need a piece of paper to show that you are learning. Go read books after work. Because look: In the arts, you would have a better chance of surviving the Titanic than getting a tenure-track position; and once you adjust for IQ, education, and working hours, post-PhD science jobs are among the most low-paying jobs you could get.
3. Business school is not going to help 90% of the people who go.
Here’s the problem with business school. Most people want to work for themselves, but you can’t learn entrepreneurship in school — you have to learn by doing. And a business degree that is not from a top school is not going to get you very much at all, according to recruiting firm Challenger & Gray. Finally, Harvard Business School has acknowleged that if you are planning to downshift for kids around the time you are 30, your ability to leverage an MBA is drastically compromised.
4. Law school is a factory for depressives.
It used to be that if you had a law degree it was a ticket to a high salary and a safe career. Today many people go to law school and cannot find a job. This is, in a large part, because law school selects for people who are good with details and pass tests and law firms select for people who are good at marketing themselves and can drum up business. Law firms are in a transition phase, and they have many unfair labor practices leftover from older generations, for example, hourly billing and making young lawyers pay dues for what is, today, a largely uncertain future. Which might explain why the American Bar Association reports that the majority of lawyers would recommend that people not to go into law.
5. The medical school model assumes that health care spending is not a mess.
Medical school is extremely expensive, and our health care system does not pay enough to doctors for them to sanely accept the risk of taking $200,000 in debt to serve as doctors. Specialists like opthalmologists have great hours, and plastic surgeons have great salaries, but most doctors will be stuck in a system that is largely broken, and could easily break them financially — like OBGYNs who cannot afford to deliver babies in New York because they can’t afford the malpractice insurance with their salary.
6. Going to grad school is like going into the military.
Applications to the military increase in a bad economy in a disturbingly similar way that applications to graduate school do. For the most part, both alternatives are bad. They limit your future in ways you can’t even imagine, and they are not likely to open the kind of doors you really want. Military is the terrible escape hatch for poor kids, and grad school is the terrible escape hatch for rich kids.
7. Most jobs are better than they seem: You can learn from any job.
When I worked on a French chicken farm, I thought I’d learn French, but I didn’t, because I was so foreign to the French farm family that they couldn’t talk to me. However I did learn a lot of other things, like how to bargain to get the best job in the chicken coop, and how to get out of killing the bunnies. You don’t need to be learning the perfect thing in your job. You just need to be learning. Don’t tell yourself you need a job that gives your life meaning. Jobs don’t do that; doesn’t that make you feel better? Suddenly being in the workplace doesn’t seem so bad.
8. Graduate school forces you to overinvest: It’s too high risk.
In a world where people did not change careers, grad school made sense. Today, grad school is antiquated. You invest three to six extra years in school in order to get your dream career. But the problem is that not only are the old dream careers deteriorating, but even if you have a dream career, it won’t last. You’ll want to change because you can. Because that’s normal for today’s workplace. People who are in their twenties today will change careers about four times in their life. Which means that grad school is a steep investment for such a short period of time. The grad school model needs to change to adapt to the new workplace. Until then. Stay away.
I’m getting a master’s in elementary education right now. When I think about all the loans I’m taking out I’m like ugh…on top of undergrad loans. Right now I work 15 hours per week, it’s temporary with no benefits. I have to dash to school three days per week because my job won’t let me out before 6pm and class starts at 6:30. I wish I could find a job that offers tuition reimbursement or ended at 5 instead or something. But I think I’m stuck right now. Thank god I can still live at home with mom (at 25 years old- I wonder when I’ll be able to move out, plus I’m in NYC, so expensive out here to rent)
I think that graduate school is a great investment depending on what field you are going into. As an aspiring teaching, a combination of an advance degree and experience is better from what I’ve been told by current teacher. Many experienced teachers go back to school to increase their knowledge and pay. Also, the comment that graduate school delays the transition to adulthood is not always an accurate description. I’ve been self-sufficient since I graduated from high school and I am also a mother. I agree that there should be some hesitation when thinking about attending graduate school. An individual should make sure it is the best choice for them as well as making sure they do not incur debt they cannot pay off.
6. Going to grad school is like going into the military.
Applications to the military increase in a bad economy in a disturbingly similar way that applications to graduate school do. For the most part, both alternatives are bad. They limit your future in ways you can't even imagine, and they are not likely to open the kind of doors you really want. Military is the terrible escape hatch for poor kids, and grad school is the terrible escape hatch for rich kids.
I do not know where you are getting your ideas from but this is unacceptable. Perhaps you should join our Armed Forces, preferably the Marine Corps and re-evaluate your stance. Don’t just write a blog because you can and post bullshit information. No one has time to waste reading the hot air that’s coming out of your rear.
Another piece of advice I would give is starting your own online business.This is the easiest and fastest way of creating an income for yourself and being your own boss.I have opened HOW TO GET SKINNY FAST with a very limited budget!
Hope this helps!
I know a lot of people going for Masters are having mental
blocks and melt downs. I would save the time and money and study a few trades. A masters isn’t necessary unless you want to specialize such as work at a foreign embassy. If a
person has the money and a masters comes easily go for it but if it is a struggle it isn’t for you.
One year of Kindergarten. 12 years of public and high school. 4 years for a Bachelors. 2 years for a Masters.
Now that a masters is the “new high school diploma. That
is 19 years of school. Maybe it is time to stop at an associates. That is 15 years of school. If you haven’t still
figured it out why more school. Do something else!!!!!
University is helpful, but not absolutely necessary. For example, if you have a good business idea and you are able to implement it before you start university and see results, that will definitely change your mind.
I have to admin, university is for most people that want a large salary at a young age, but it is not for everybody.
University is mainly for people that want to have a corporate job at a young age. Business or any other route is for people that want to start at the bottom and work their way up because of their capabilities.
I personally prefer starting-up new businesses.
I agree with the article, I wish I had read it years ago before I started my engineering degree.
Four years ago I got a job offer and entry to college. I , back then, went for college. Now even though I have nearly graduated I can’t secure an interview.
They say be positive; I have accumulated so much debt, so many days were wasted studying, no holidays for four years, no life, and now nothing.
I wish I could undo my wrong path
I have three master’s degrees, but I would have much rather have been working at a full-time, well-paying job instead of pursuing those degrees during that time. One of the respondents wrote,
“Even more than this, as someone who’s been working for ten years and who routinely hires people, experience is what I look for. It’s what every hiring manager I’ve ever had looks for. There is HUGE distrust at any resume that crosses my desk where someone has spent excessive time in grad school. It looks like they are hiding out, and the last thing you want as an employer is an employee who looks like they like to hide instead of jump in and tackle something head-on.”
I want to emphasize that I am not hiding out by going to graduate school. I want to work full-time at a good job.
How can I obtain that experience, if I am not offered the opportunity to work full-time at a real career-oriented job to gain that experience?
You can contact me at Ken.Census@gmail.com.
I have a PhD but my job it totally unrelated to my study: Now I’m working in corporate IT for software but my study is for Geology :) There is really a huge difference between what you learn and what the society needs.
I have to say I disagree with the general complete negativity of this article, it implies that if you have a 4-year degree, your best option is to get a job. However if you can get into graduate school you will make on average only 10000 a year less than if you were privately employed. Many Graduate schools work on state and federal funding grants not subject to some recent budget cuts. So one can literally be paid all 4-5 years of their study, making only 10000 less than what they would start at. Then after the degree in completed you make on average 2.5 times as much your fist year, as you would with a 4-year degree. You get paid to make yourself more valuable in graduate school. You cannot lose, as long as you can get in.
I personally find a Master’s Degree in Electrical Engineering very help. Perhaps more than other fields, it’s really open a different type of career path; from applications/marketing etc. into real R&D and design work. Some people get lucky (or unlucky) and get promoted into management, but for those stays on the technical side, grad school is a must. After a senior applications engineer is still an applications engineer.
As a current MPA student, I value the education that I am receiving in my program. I made the conscious decision to enter into an MPA program following my BA, even though I had a job offer.
Not only do I obtain critical and theoretical knowledge in my program, I have balanced that with a part time position in the public service. I feel as though my education has been enhanced with a part time position as I am able to apply my theoretical knowledge to actual processes.
While I don’t agree that grad school is for everyone, I believe I have made the choice that will put me ahead in an increasingly competitive public service job market (yes, it is actually quite competitive!!). While searching for a permanent position having the theoretical and practical knowledge of how to navigate the public service has been very helpful. As well, as many have already commented, having an MPA is often a requirement for public service positions.
I really did enjoy your article, thank you for sharing your opinion and experience! I feel as though my MPA is an absolute benefit to my career in the public service. Working in the public service has been a more enriching experience because of my MPA. While I don’t feel my whole career will be in the public service, it does allow me to explore many options and network. Each are more fulfilling experiences because of my educational background.
just adding a little comment there, yes it s risky to invest in long times and expensive studies, however in some cases, why can not try to put all the chances in your side?
An article that encourages young people NOT to stay in school. There is a first time for everything.
In the past 10 months, I have made it to the final (intensive) interviewing rounds for two different “dream” jobs. When it came time for these employers to choose their new hire, I have been the bridesmaid each time because the other candidate had more education than me. These would-be employers of mine have actually told me as much. Maybe it was a lie to soften the blow (which it certainly didn’t accomplish), but if it wasn’t true then at least consider this:
The pool is so over-saturated with talent due to the lack of good jobs so it’s a given you’d need experience to even get an interview. Having a master’s – and experience – now is almost a given if you want to close the deal. And if you don’t have it, you’re gonna get left out. Gather all the tools you can to be competitive. Be the smartest, be the hardest worker, be the most versatile, be the most educated, be the most attractive: these are the factors that carry weight and you need them all today to get a good enough job. Or maybe you get lucky with nepotism.
To get a job you need to be charismatic, bright and have tons of valuable experience. Those factors are how you get close. But when you talk about being competitive, it’s wrong to think more education won’t nudge you into the lead.
I think the negative reaction to your blog post is that most people assume you are talking about grad school in general. The tone and the actual words do imply this idea, but I assume you are talking about people like you. Dodging recessions by taking on debt is a monumentally stupid thing to do. Plus if you are going into grad school to make beaucoup bucks, then you are also making a stupid move. Motivation, initiative, and competence will get you to 50 grand + easy in a decent size company without a graduate degree. But if you want to be a marine biologist, a lawyer, a doctor, or a psychologist, then disregard this blog post. But remember, if you’re not smart enough, quick enough, or confident enough to build yourself and your career up, then you will make less money with or without a graduate degree.
You are a blog writer which is a fake job. And you have terrible grammar. Why are you an expert on the subject by the way?
It must be nice for her to pass the time dissecting and insulting others’ life choices behind the anonymity of a pseudonym and safety of a computer screen while someone else pays her bills. But talk about “hiding from the real world” – there’s no difference between this and a sniping teenage forum troll lounging about in his mother’s basement!
I am glad I read this article and everyone’s comments. I felt like I was the only one racking my brain between staying in the “working world” or going full time into grad school. Since I really want to get into Public Health the best thing for me is to build networks and gain as much experience as possible. But, my past supervisor already warned me there is so far a BA can take you since in our field you need a MPH to get out of the research assistant type level. So I’m seriously thinking that working full-time while going to school part-time online would be the best for me. Commuting in my area sucks, a lesson I learned when I took a grad course in a program I was interested in and time-constraints were ridiculous. Luckily there are good universities (UNC, J.Hopkins, UC-Berkeley) with online programs meant for working professionals…people with 3-5 of experience. Best of both worlds!
I am interested in public health as well and would like any advice on best ways to get experience and build networks in the field. I have an undergrad degree too and have been researching ways to get public health experience.
I really enjoyed this article. I am a 2010 graduate and although I do want to get my MBA eventually I chose not to pursue it immediatly after my undergrad. I had done my research and realized that it is important to have experience to better understand what is being taught in this type of graduate program. I have, however, not began a career opportunity within the last year. After completing an internship after gradaution I have gone back to work at the family farm. Now a year later, I don’t know what I want to do anymore. I have gotten offers and unfortunatly the offer I had excepted and was enthused about fell through. Since then I have received job offers that frankly don’t want to pay a college graduates salary. Is it fair for me to be so critcal and want to get a paid a salary that is higher than my high scholl graduate counterparts? Or do I need to bite the bullet and pay my dues for a few year? I just feel that a college graduate in this economy is either lacking experience or over qualified….
A thought provoking piece. In my opinion an education is never wasted. It still is looked upon highly in the business world. Obviously if you want to be a doctor, dentist, etc. you need to go to school for advanced study.
I do agree though you must carefully choose why you want to go to grad school and look at tuition reimbursement from your employer.
Hi everyone!
Thanks P for your article. Quite insightful & I have enjoyed reading everyone else’s comments too. SO helpful.
I am currently a junior psychology major and am thinking about going into the AmeriCorps instead of grad school. Do you have an opinion on that? I already have a few connections already due to volunteering on a long-term basis with various organizations / non profits.
I am thinking about going into the non-profit sector (instead of counseling for instance) & while I do not have a business or marketing or PR background, I feel like I could learn a lot OJT as an AmeriCorps, or something similar.
Any thoughts? Thank you.
Claire,
Speaking from experience, I say “go for it”! I’m finishing a master’s degree in philosophy. People laugh at my choice of major, but I started volunteering through Americorps early on during my studies and I actually landed a good job.
I volunteered with the PR and marketing department at a nonprofit community health center, and on the side I served on the board of directors at a small startup nonprofit in health care. I did this part-time while in grad school in the humanities.
I soon had a job offer with the health center, but that was lost during the DC budget cuts. I brushed up my resume and started applying. Within two weeks (no joke), I had a new job as a clinic administrator. My job involves a heavy dose of marketing and business operations, so I try to be as diligent and proactive in my own learning as I can be to make up for the gap in formal education.
By seeking practical education through service, you could gain a HUGE advantage over your competition. It’s worth it, and you can major in absolutely anything you want as long as you know what business actually needs.
Thanks! Good to hear of some successes! What was your undergrad degree in? And you said you were with the AmeriCorps DURING school? I thought you couldn’t take classes.
I’m impressed with your landing the administration job! I’ve also been on a BOD in the past & volunteered with a local “startup” NP. Is this also with a non profit or something else? And yes, I definitely agree with being proactive & taking initiative.
Hi Claire,
Thanks! Luck can’t be completely ruled out, of course, but Americorps provides you with a real world background. Nonprofits are amazingly complicated and the skills seem to translate well to other areas. You already have so much valuable experience–you might be surprised what you could get right now.
My undergrad? Humanities–an interdisc major, along with government. I mostly took philosophy, lit, and Spanish.
I should mention I’m doing a two-year Americorps term that’s part-time and specifically for college students. I’m working at a for-profit clinic, but I still do a lot of volunteering.
Sounds like you have an awesome background and should just keep building it. Grad school? Well, I only did it because at the time I still considered getting my phd. Volunteering has changed my mind, but I’ve had a tuition waiver so finishing a free philosophy MA couldn’t hurt. I wouldn’t go to grad school unless you have it 100% paid for by the state or by your employer. Definitely go with Americorps, and you won’t have the grad school debt.
The educational system is about 20 years behind; experience is in the now. Not to mention the debt.
“It's very hard to get a job teaching at a university. And if you are not going to teach, why are you getting a degree? You don't need a piece of paper to show that you are learning.”
Yes, it is true that getting a teaching position at a university is difficult, thats what you call COMPETITION. A professor at a univeristy not only teaches but his or her primary job is also to research. No one in your field would take you seriously if you neither have a degree or physical proof that you are capable of teaching and doing research at a high level. You may not need a piece of paper to show that you are learning but you damn better have something to show for it at the end of the day. It’s not what you know, it’s what you can prove.
@james, It’s very true that it’s not what you know, it’s what you can prove. We often say “It’s not what you know, it’s who you know,” but we don’t consider that “who you know” is just an extension of what you can prove.
I also think that, when Penelope talks about grad school, she is assuming and implying that the student only wants to go to grad school because they haven’t thought of doing anything else.
While I don’t like the current trend (not just on this blog, but seemingly on every employment-related blog) of saying “you don’t need to go to school, you should just teach yourself,” I think that Penelope is (sadly) correct when she assumes that many readers are thinking about grad school just for the hell of it, without any professional goals in mind, or because they think it will be easier than gaining real-world experience. But she is also incorrect in assuming that all jobs require just as little experience as blogging does. You don’t need a degree to prove that you know what you’re doing as a blogger; you do need one to prove that you know what you’er doing to get a job doing just about anything else.
I heard a portion of Penelope and others on a radio show in Seattle.
I am an employer and a med school graduate. There is a general confusion between cause and effect. By this I refer to the fact that grad school does not make people smart in ways that count. Some smart people go to grad school and as a result may gain some nice skills and depth. But there is a big problem when average and less folks go to grad school and end up no smarter than before, and think they are more valuable.
In a job that has high requirements for judgment, communication, intellect, writing and analytical skills and the like – native smarts and excellent writing skills ranks high.
I have over the years reviewed hundreds of resumes, some of very average or less candidates. Degrees in the end mean little. Those with good degrees tend to be smarter to start with.
A major turnoff are 3rd tier degrees from no-name institutions, unaccredited Masters etc. University of Phoenix and the equivalent really turn me off, as it causes me to question the judgment of the candidate. I am interested in how they present.
Grad school if it provides technical skills in a field where the degree is a gatekeeping function may be worth it, if there are jobs. Or if you have the time, money and love of the subject, like an MFA in creative writing for example. Just don’t expect it to lead to work.
And also note that there are issues when a person with a high degree of education applies for a job out of their field and below their ‘status’. One can’t help but wonder if they are embittered or have other issues that might cause risk as an employee.
In the end, getting a job is about what the candidate can do to create value for an employer. It is very concrete and clear conceptually to the prospective. Life if not fair in that wishing and hoping that one will be recognized as valuable is in the eyes of the beholder and may have little to do with degrees. If you are good, it will show regardless of the degrees beyond college. If you are average, a degree won’t dress it up substantially.
Lowell, I believe you hold some unsubstantiated bias in your review of resumes. As you mentioned, people with intellect who go to grad school, will find utility with the degree. Those lacking in intelligence, generally will not. Likewise, what you do with that intellect has an impact on your future, or in your case, you success as a manager.
This I think is more of a reflection of the educational process, often not inherent in the university program, but inherent to the individual learner and how he or she applies themselves.
Perhaps, you could define native smarts? Are you positing that intelligence is innate? If so, I think you need to go back to grad school yourself and study social science to enhance your degree from med school. It might help clear up some of that convolution.
That is the very reason we go to grad school. To learn to think. An undergraduate education serves to provide knowledge regarding a diverse range of subjects, but grad school is where you learn to think about, critically analyze and apply that knowledge effectively.
Before you can analyze something, however, you need to have the right information at your fingertips and that information needs to be complete. Your conclusions regarding online education and third-tier institutions are quite biased due to your lack of quality information regarding both modes of learning. Pure economics is often the deciding factor regarding where students (especially adult learners) decide to attend school. You seem rather contrite is dismissing that fact and apply a “dumb-ass” label to all those resumes that come across your desk.
As an employer, however, I have had to kick Harvard grads out the door and promote individuals from the University of Phoenix Online because they could out-perform and out-think the Ivy League grads. Sometimes, its the other way around as well. At the end of the day, all education systems have their bias, but the subject matter is still the same and the students who are willing to go beyond the curriculum are the ones who excel in the real-world, regardless of where they go to school. That’s what I look for in my resumes and interviews, as well as job performance evaluations.
Applying for a job outside ones field and below his or her status could easily signify a career change or a change in economic status. Embittered is certainly a strange conclusion, while risk is something to consider, but not a cause to discount a resume until you gain a holistic view of the candidate, under the premise that the rest of his or her resume is in order. It could also signify jobs simply are not available in his or her field, or that he or she simply wanted to become an expert in a certain subject, but applying it economically is not a realistic option.
Penelope, I like this blog, but seriously, where are the posts? You can’t post less than once a week and expect your audience to be loyal.
I agree with you. The only practical reason I can find for my facebook page is to email my relatives.
TRUE TRUE TRUE
1. Can do… do
2. Cannot do… will Teach..
3. Humanities. . liberal arts. social sciences. FREE FREE FREE at Public Library/ Public Web. Public Internet.
TRUE TRUE TRUE
1. Can do… do
2. Cannot do… will Teach..
3. Humanities. . liberal arts. social sciences. FREE FREE FREE at Public Library/ Public Web. Public Internet.
“Military is the terrible escape hatch for poor kids, and grad school is the terrible escape hatch for rich kids.”
Wow. You need an escape hatch to reality. I don’t know what military you’re talking about — I serve with proud military members who are grads from Harvard, Duke, Princeton, Stanford, Willam and Mary, Georgetown, Penn, Cornell, University of Southern California, UCLA, West Point, Annapolis, the Air Force Academy, etc. I also serve with proud young men and women who have yet to start or complete their college degree but hope to do so one day through the generous educational benefits our military services provide. These proud patriots serve in the U.S. military for a host of reasons, not the least of which is to defend our country (from terrorist acts such as the 9-11 you survived) and to preserve our nation’s freedoms (such as the free speech you enjoy each time you post a critical blog). The freedoms Americans enjoy isn’t free — although it may seem that way to the shallow. Rather, America’s freedom is sustained by great self sacrific of men and women who serve in our armed forces, many of whom have given their lives — the ultimate sacrifice they paid was not “a terrible escape hatch for poor kids.” Shame on you.
So glad you said what many of us think! For the past 2 decades the US military has consistently ranked #1 in public confidence (see annual Roper Polls) thanks to the integrity and selflessness of our military members. Friends of mine who serve may not be trust fund babies, but most hail from middle to upper middle class families and are serving because the military is known to be an honorable, respected profession. The enlisted force tends to come from more modest upbringing and enlist to gain experience, technical skills and education needed to climb the ladder of social mobility. Nice that this ladder exists in our society, thanks to the military…an upward escape hatch for some and a noble profession for all.
The US Military is not defending us, they are invading other countries and expanding the US empire and desire for oil. I feel sorry for the people who sign up for the military and think that they are defending the US. They risk their lives for nothing. Most people in the US don’t really follow what is going on in Iraq or Afghanistan and couldn’t care less about the wars. Sorry but its true.
My problem with this article is that it fails to admit the sad truth that employers require higher degrees. It’s that stamp on one’s forehead. A person with a business degree is more likely to be hired as a project manager, for example, than someone with a B.A. in history and 2-3 years of project management experience (eh hem… me). While I agree that post-ungrad education is a scam, it’s part of the nature of the employment beast and people need to accept it.
Most job applications are handled online now, and resumes that do not contain required keywords (such as “MBA”) are filtered out of the applicant pool. Someone with 7 years of experience, and probably a much better candidate than a young business school graduate with 1-2 years of experience, won’t even be seen by the hiring manager. It’s unfortunate, but it is what it is. Sure, some people find great jobs through connections and networking, others have great luck with venture capitalism or starting their own business. But those people seem to now be fewer and further in between.
It sucks, but we may as well play the game.
I’ll add that a substantial number of people who don’t know what to do with their lives do things like… go to France to work on a chicken farm, rather than going to grad school (sorry, Penelope). My best friend once said, when I was complaining about my job, “Why don’t you just move to New Zealand and pick grapes, or something?” How is that a realistic approach to a problem? Sure, it’s romantic, it makes for a good story and one learns a lot by moving to another country but, let’s face it – you’re doing it for fun, not because you think it’ll prepare you for the world of, say, Accounting and Finance. I think it “delays adulthood” far more than going to grad school.
That kind of thing is a great move for a writer, not so much for the rest of us…
I’ll add that a substantial number of people who don’t know what to do with their lives do things like… go to France to work on a chicken farm, rather than going to grad school (sorry, Penelope). My best friend once said, when I was complaining about my job, “Why don’t you just move to New Zealand and pick grapes, or something?” How is that a realistic approach to a problem? Sure, it’s romantic, it makes for a good story and one learns a lot by moving to another country but, let’s face it – you’re doing it for fun, not because you think it’ll prepare you for the world of, say, Accounting and Finance. I think it “delays adulthood” far more than going to grad school.
That kind of thing is a great move for a writer, not so much for the rest of us…
While this is true in some markets in other markets you cannot get a job unless you have experience. In some ways it makes more sense to get into a company get some experience and then apply to get a degree because as you said Kayle the mangerial jobs require a degree.
The problem with this article is that the arguments can just as easily apply to college and high school. Why don’t we all just send our kids to trade school instead of high school and let them start working at 18? In fact, why wait until 18? Let’s go back and do what they did in the 1800”s and have 7 year olds not go to school at all and just start them working in our factories.
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I’ve never known anyone who has said serving a tour in the military closed doors for them, and when conducting job interviews, every applicant I’ve interviewed who had prior service has presented better than those without. Without evidence to back up your opinion of the military closing doors, all it does is make you come across as bigoted against veterans. The GI BIll alone has been one of the greatest forces of upward socioeconomic mobility in this country’s history. http://www.h-net.org/reviews/showrev.php?id=11935
Working in a highly technical field, it is clear that the author’s idea of jobs is largely confined to the services sector. People don’t go into particle physics for the money, they do it to answer fundamental questions about the universe. Learning for the sake of learning, which is paid lip service in this article while ignoring that the groundwork for many fields requires graduate school. Similarly, while some people go into architecture or engineering for a job, many do for the love of creation.
Finally, the entire article is left feeling disingenuous at best, and exploitative at worst by finishing with an ad for your own career-coaching service. “Don’t go to grad school! Pay me to tell you what to do instead!”
Plenty of people go to grad school for the wrong reasons, but this article ignores most of those to focus on discouraging even those attending for the right reasons in order to promote the author’s own career of profiting off of people looking for help.
I was in the Marines and I can say that some doors have been slightly closed and by no means were doors opened to me. In interviews I am told “Thank you for your service”, but I am usually overlooked and lose the job to by a person with more experience in the industry. That experience could even be doing clerical work or runs at any company. My point is that I can see what the author is trying to say which is time could be better spent if the military is not your calling. I also would like to point out that the military has never helped me score extra points in any interview.
That being said I agree with most of your other points, including that the military is a great place for poor kids to turn too.
I’ve never known anyone who has said serving a tour in the military closed doors for them, and when conducting job interviews, every applicant I’ve interviewed who had prior service has presented better than those without. Without evidence to back up your opinion of the military closing doors, all it does is make you come across as bigoted against veterans. The GI BIll alone has been one of the greatest forces of upward socioeconomic mobility in this country’s history. http://www.h-net.org/reviews/showrev.php?id=11935
Working in a highly technical field, it is clear that the author’s idea of jobs is largely confined to the services sector. People don’t go into particle physics for the money, they do it to answer fundamental questions about the universe. Learning for the sake of learning, which is paid lip service in this article while ignoring that the groundwork for many fields requires graduate school. Similarly, while some people go into architecture or engineering for a job, many do for the love of creation.
Finally, the entire article is left feeling disingenuous at best, and exploitative at worst by finishing with an ad for your own career-coaching service. “Don’t go to grad school! Pay me to tell you what to do instead!”
Plenty of people go to grad school for the wrong reasons, but this article ignores most of those to focus on discouraging even those attending for the right reasons in order to promote the author’s own career of profiting off of people looking for help.
Why is the military a terrible escape hatch for poor kids? Perhaps, you could have used a law degree… it might have helped you add some logic and reasoning to your writing. No one respects someone who makes an adhominem attack on the noble endeavor of serving one’s country and doesn’t back it up with any sort of rationale or argument.
In addition, she is wrong, statistics show poor kids are underrepresented in our military. The poor kids joining the military in larger numbers than the general population is a myth. The military can be a very rewarding and lucrative career, Seriously people pay this woman to help them.
Leah
Because killing people and fighting wars is stupid. Duh.
Why is the military a terrible escape hatch for poor kids? Perhaps, you could have used a law degree… it might have helped you add some logic and reasoning to your writing. No one respects someone who makes an adhominem attack on the noble endeavor of serving one’s country and doesn’t back it up with any sort of rationale or argument.
This is the worst advice I’ve ever read.
Wow! I can’t believe I wasted 5 minutes of my life reading your garbage! Sounds like you got rejected from grad school.
Wow! I can’t believe I wasted 5 minutes of my life reading your garbage! Sounds like you got rejected from grad school.
Thanks for this advice. Wait, there is no advice, just a whole list of things to not to do.
Jobs should make your life meaningful- contributing to society is a good thing. Sorry blogging about how the glass isn’t even half full doesn’t make you feel anything positive.
You’re a horrible writer and you give terrible advice. I consider it criminal that you present yourself as a credentialed advisor that has a clue about what she is talking about. You clearly do not. It is sad that the internet has provided you with a loudspeaker through this blog. No one should be subjected to this drivel. I would not give this advice to my worst enemy. Stop writing now before you misinform anyone else.
Penelope Trunk’s advice is very good. I forward her articles to many young people I know who are trying to figure out a smart way to plan for their futures. I did NOT go to grad school – but after a career of 20+ years make more than many of the women I know who did – LOL! – so it’s NOT about education, it’s about marketing your skills and competently bringing value to your employer.
You’re truly an idot Appalled. However, I’m glad there’s idiots like you out there to fill the ranks of the slave class.
This is incredibly stupid. After reading point one I just scanned the rest of the article. Then I thought ooooohh, if I scroll back up the date on this will be April 1. Nope. So I wonder who would write such nonsense!
I spotted “founded three startups” and jumped to the potentially unfair assumption that Ms. Trunk is the sort of person that has had some business success with little education and therefore concludes that academic study is pointless. Needing more information I clicked on the “About Penelope” link at the top of the page and found that she “went to graduate school for English.” It doesn’t say she earned a degree. And an article identifying being “too truthful on your resume” as one of the biggest career mistakes is listed to the right of this comment box. I’m willing to guess she didn’t stay too long.
This is incredibly stupid. After reading point one I just scanned the rest of the article. Then I thought ooooohh, if I scroll back up the date on this will be April 1. Nope. So I wonder who would write such nonsense!
I spotted “founded three startups” and jumped to the potentially unfair assumption that Ms. Trunk is the sort of person that has had some business success with little education and therefore concludes that academic study is pointless. Needing more information I clicked on the “About Penelope” link at the top of the page and found that she “went to graduate school for English.” It doesn’t say she earned a degree. And an article identifying being “too truthful on your resume” as one of the biggest career mistakes is listed to the right of this comment box. I’m willing to guess she didn’t stay too long.
Maybe you should think about attaching some source material for those “facts” you insinuate. Sounds like the author is a little upset about not learning French on the French chicken farm. I bet if she went to grad school, she could have…
Everything she said is sourced with a link. Read more closely.
wow! I’m sorry I clicked on this link to bring me to this page full of negative “opinions” with no factual backing. Thank you for making everyone who wants to do something positive with their lives feel like they are wrong (even though we know we are not). Can someone please make a “blog” site called, “Going to Grad School = being prepared for an future emerging economy”? That’s my $0.02
The message: Business school helps no one. Medical School is too Expensive. Law school is depressing. Lets face it, factories are closing. Unions are being dismantled along with their middle class wages while CEO’s make millions in stock options alone. Please author, tell us what a person needs to do to earn an acceptable, sustainable wage???
Industry places a lot of weight on experience, but degree’d individuals generally get paid more once they establish themselves.
If you plan on working for someone else after you graduate then you are unlikely to get rich. But you will be able to maintain an adequate life style doing something you love.