Seven reasons why graduate school is outdated
It used to be that the smart kids went to graduate school. But today, the workplace is different, and it might be that only the desperate kids go to graduate school. Today there are new rules, and new standards for success. And for most people, graduate school is the path to nowhere. Here are seven reasons why:
1. Graduate school is an extreme investment for a fluid workplace. If you are graduating from college today, you will change careers about five times over the course of your life. So going to graduate school for four years—investing maybe $80,000—is probably over-investing in one of those careers. If you stayed in one career for your whole life, the idea is more reasonable. But we don’t do that anymore, so graduate school needs to change before it is reasonable again.
2. Graduate school is no longer a ticket to play. It used to be that you couldn’t go into business without an MBA. But recently, the only reason you need an MBA is to climb a corporate ladder. And, as Paul Graham says, “corporate ladders are obsolete.” That’s because if you try to climb one, you are likely to lose your footing due to downsizing, layoffs, de-equitization, or lack of respect for your personal life. So imagine where you want to go, and notice all the people who got there already without having an MBA. Because you can do that, too, in a wide range of fields, including finance.
3. Graduate school requires you to know what will make you happy before you try it. But we are notoriously bad at knowing what will make us happy. The positive psychology movement has shown us that our brains are actually fine-tuned to trick us into thinking we know about our own happiness. And then we make mistakes. So the best route to happiness is one of trial and error. Otherwise, you could over-commit to a terrible path. For example, today most lawyers do not like being lawyers: more than 55% of members of the American Bar Association say they would not recommend getting a law degree today.
4. Graduate degrees shut doors rather than open them. You better be really certain you know what you’re going to do with that degree because you’re going to need to earn a lot of money to pay it back. Law school opens doors only to careers that pay enough to repay your loans. Likewise, your loan payments from an MBA program mean that you cannot have a scrappy start-up without starving. Medical school opens doors to careers with such bad work-life balance that the most popular specialty right now is ophthalmology because it has good hours.
5. If you don’t actually use your graduate degree, you look unemployable. Let’s say you spend years in graduate school (and maybe boatloads of money), but then you don’t work in that field. Instead, you start applying for jobs that are, at best, only tangentially related. What it looks like is that you are asking people to give you a job even though you didn’t really want to be doing that job. You wanted another job but you couldn’t get it. No employer likes to hire from the reject pile, and no employer wants to be second choice.
6. Graduate school is an extension of childhood. Thomas Benton, columnist at the Chronicle of Higher Education, says that some students are addicted to the immediate feedback and constant praise teachers give, but the work world doesn’t provide that. Also, kids know how to do what teachers assign. But they have little idea of how to create their own assignments—which is what adult life is, really. So Benton says students go back to school more for comfort than because they have a clear idea of what they want to do with their life.
7. Early adult life is best if you are lost. It used to be that you graduated from college and got on a path. The smart kids got themselves on a safe path fast. Today there are no more safe paths, there is only emerging adulthood, where you have to figure out who you are and where you fit, and the quarter-life crisis, which is a premature midlife crisis that comes when people try to skip over the being lost part of early adult life. Being lost is a great path for today’s graduates. And for most people, graduate school undermines that process with very little reward at the end.
Dan Ariely, economist at MIT, found that when people have a complicated choice to make—and there is a default choice—they pick the default nearly every time. So if your parents or friends went to graduate school, you are likely to do the same, not because it’s good for you personally, but because choosing the alternatives seem more difficult. But making exactly that kind of difficult choice is what your early adult life is all about. So don’t skip it.
Although I agree that you can go a long way in on–the-job training, this article smacks of signaling that we are at the peak of the employment business cycle when jobs are aplenty and companies are willing to hire any warm body and train them.
Things will be different in another year or so when jobs are much more scarce. Workers will be looking for ways to 1) fill their spare time because they are unemployed and 2) improve their skills and employment prospects with a graduate degree.
I notice that P seems to be very up on the “in” trend of the moment. We’ll have to see if her tune changes with the reversal of this current trend.
This is getting a little silly – we’re basically trading examples of people for whom grad school is a good idea and people for whom it isn’t. The initial post is based on a number of generalizations – about school, work, and what people want/need from both – so it’s not surprising that it contradicts what many people have experienced in life.
This article is extremely true, but I would extend it to a bachelor’s degree as well.
The wife is in grad school, but she is doing it the right way.
She graduated with a BS in nursing eight years ago. After working as a nurse for these eight years, she has learned that she really enjoys her work and would like to expand those opportunities, she is going to grad school to become a nurse practitioner.
She is one year through a two year program. It has been a good move financially and professionally.
When I look at my student loan balance, I think, “Why the hell did I go to grad school?” But it has gotten me in doors that otherwise would have been closed. And helped me get my current job, which I love and pays me enough I might finally be able to pay off those loans. So I can’t knock my degree completely.
Great post – I speak from experience.
I studied a MS degree at night while working. I was somewhat interested in the topic and thought that it could be leveraged in the area where I was working. For a while, the degree did help me excel in my job despite not being directly in the same field.
Then, the company went to hell. I was laid off with nearly my entire department. The company had to use an auditorium in shifts to explain the severance policies.
I found a job quickly through my university placement program, but I was completely boxed in by the new degree. Although, in the short term, it worked out well — I received a significant pay raise during a downturn due to the degree.
In the longer term, I feel that I am tied to the degree field. Now that I have six years experience working in the field, it is especially true. I am looking for some of that career change/reinvention that you talk about but will probably need to take a pay cut.
Like Susan (previous comment), I can’t knock the degree too much because it really saved my finances at a critical point. Plus, I now earn well above my peers who were watching football and drinking beer while I was studying. However, today the degree feels like a career restraint tying me to my field.
As a career counselor for college graduates and young professionals, I often find that people choose grad school for lack of a better alternative. I work with many clients who participate in a self assessment to see what they want to do FIRST. If grad school is applicable then so be it. More often that not, grad school is ruled out pretty quickly once solid career goals have been set.
Follow Penelope’s advice only if you feel extremely lucky and sure that every situation will break your way. It might work pretty well until you hit your 40s. Age discrimination happens and you will need every advantage. A graduate degree makes a difference in your credibility and reputation. I didn’t go to graduate school and wish I had — I believe it would make a difference in my job search at 50, and would have made a difference in my earning and career growth capacity in the last 10 years. It’s hard — not impossible, but not even remotely easy — to go back to school at this age.
This blog and all the subsequent posts show the copious amount of people out there with massive egos who feel the need to be herd (pun intended). Would it be such an empty life to keep your opinion to yourself?
Yes. Yes. Yes. This is so true and I wish everyone considering grad school would take this kind of talk seriously. Unfortunately most people googling this kind of thing are already convinced of the value of grad school and are invested in being the exception to the overwhelming rule of grad school. I wish that my husband and I had known more about grad school before sinking 4 years and thousands of dollars of debt into it with little to show (humanities/education respectively). I wish I’d spent those years at least working a job that made money (seriously: anything paying above $20,000 would beat the salary I’ve worked for since I was 23) and thinking about what I wanted to do with myself, and learning about how the world works. Now I look at the life we thought we would have and ask myself, “We thought we’d spend 8 years of our lives, at $10,000 per year in loans, and then get jobs at the same place in a place we would want to live that would pay OFF those loans in a job market where there are 7 graduates for every 1 job?” WHAT WERE WE THINKING? And yet it’s impossible to see the forest for the trees when all your friends and mentors are so invested in that exact scenario working out perfectly. When I talk to my grad school peers about quitting, they actually suggest a different degree program rather than waking up to reality. If you’re thinking about grad school, stop! It’s not the fantasy you think it is, and it will not pay off down the line. I only wish I’d known this and had gotten off this crazy ride earlier.
Gawd what a stupid post. Let’s see…my company paid for my MBA (many good ones do that you know) then they sent me to Europe for 3 years where I had an absolute blast. Now I’m working in NYC.
Yup, good advice, skip all that and do the start-up whatever thing! Rock on Garth!
Out of the 1,000’s of working folks I’ve met, probably only about 5 could pull off a start up like event. If you’re that ~1 in 5k, have at it. Otherwise think about school.
I fail to see Penelope’s euphoria in “being lost” in your twenties. As someone with a Bachelor’s Degree in Political Science, me and most of my friends with liberal arts degrees are pretty much stuck working either in an office as say data entry, paralegal (now they’re moving this down to 10-12/hr), telemarketing, RETAIL, or waiting tables. Right now I’m making $11/hr working security. I hardly see what’s so great about “being lost” or “jobhopping” especially with 10% or more inflation in the price of FOOD and GAS/TRANSPORTATION (even the bus fares are raising)–things you HAVE TO buy. Um, personally I don’t see what’s so great about HAVING TO eat ramen noodles, and to stand out in the sun/rain/snow waiting for the bus!
In other words, what about when this RECESSION hits full swing and the retail sales commissions or tips from waiting tables are cut, when corporations start cutting low level office and other low level jobs… WAKE UP! 1 in 4 people in Michigan are on food stamps, 1 in 8 in Ohio… The days of low-skilled decent-paying jobs are OVER! Now sounds like a great time to BEEF up any qualifications and special skills–whether that be in professional school, or grad degrees in engineering/science, nursing/teaching, or trades such as mechanic or plumber. Especially when sciences and engineering grad degrees often pay you free tuition and a stipend which is worth more than the $12/hour job you’re working! The reason people are changing jobs more is because of outsourcing, the increase in farming out work to temp agencies, and the end of the social contract between the corporation and the employee, and layoffs! Career change does NOT equal voluntary change or necessarily upward change!
I think we can all agree with the trivial and obvious point Penelope is trying to make–Don’t be foolish and spend money to get a grad degree in humanities, social sciences, or anything else that is in a non-essential recession-vulnerable field; and research the job outlook of the degree you are pursuing, and this doesn’t mean asking a career counselor (read= salesman for the college) at the college!
Penny,
I agree that for some/many, graduate school is a bad idea. But for me and many people like me it is one of the only ways that we can engender the confidence in our abilities that others do not have to work as hard to receive.
I’m specifically talking about the peripheral cues that people use to assess other people. As has been said here before, recruiting staff, tend to hire people they like or who are most like them. It’s just a fact of life. But what if you are not like everyone else in that particlar workplace? “Graduate school is an extreme investment for a fluid workplace” but try getting into that workplace when everyone thinks you don’t belong there.
Were it not for my MBA, I would not have gotten the interview for my current job. Yes, I am currently surrounded by others who do not have graduate degrees, but they networked, worked, talked, lucked and transferred their way into the department. I am the only one with an MBA, and the ability to do some of the analysis that is done in the department, but because I don’t have the typical corporate “look”, many opportunities went, and still go around, over or past me. For me it was a “ticket to play” and I would be hard pressed to believe that it is not still the case for many others like me.
Life is what it is, but being different means that you often have to put out more effort (graduate school included) to make the same progress in your career that others who do not have your baggage are required to exert.
My 2 cents worth.
I agree, graduate scholl is not for everyone, that’s for sure, but the less professionals available in the US more work will outsourced to India and China. In my field, engineering, I won’t hire someone just because looks smart or because is smart, that’s not enough.
I think this post could be miss guiding for a young people i search for a profession.
One of your best Penelope.
If MBA programs taught their grads how to grow a pair and spend more time developing goals, and less time learning trendy management theories, then those programs might have more value.
This article was great but not applicable to those of us in the biomedical/natural sciences. Tuition is paid for by your department and your salary is derived from your professor’s/department’s grants. Furthermore, unfortunately the PhD is the “ticket to play” and without it, your career is limited. Also, graduate school is the forum for networking in the sciences.
So what if you’re presently IN Grad School? Hmm?
I’m in an area studies program now that I really like. I received a generous fellowship for a portion of my study, and have worked part-time some semesters and have taken others off to focus strictly on school.
My priorities have changed and so have my ideas about where grad school can take me. In my case the degree isn’t highly specialized. So what I will be forced to do is really market myself. But this is what everyone must do.
I know in some ways grad school will be a set-back–I’ve lost a couple of years of full-time work experience and the earnings that go along wih them. But I’ve also had really great experiences, met wonderful and interesting people, and have even learned a few things in the process. And now I know for sure that I don’t want a PhD when I always thought I did before.
This article is not well researched. Maybe if it took me 4 whole years to finish grad school, I would write a crappy article like this too. I am in last year of my grad school. It’s been nothing but hard work, dedication and determination and it has benefited me a lot. And, no I didn’t go to grad school because I need constant praises and approval from my professors. What kind of grad school did you go to?
I object to the idea that graduate school is an extension of childhood. For many of my peers who have walked into engineering, law, or medicine (the trinity of respectability in this troubled land), they are just as petulant as their parent and exhibit the ultimate form of childishness; brute materialism.
http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2008/06/24/how-to-identify-someone-who-is-giving-you-bad-advice/
Penelope. You make excellent points on how Grad School can be a hinderance to career. I agree, the extra expense in education is often not worth it in today’s fast-pace, fickle job world. I’m an older GenXer – been working 13 years and, I’ve changed jobs 6 times since college. (looking for job#7 currently) Those people who have their company telling them they need a more advanced degree in order to gain promotion, should consider the risks and benefits very carefully. It might be wiser to put an extra $80,000 in your home or IRA rather than education. GenX and GenY may not have the same Social Security or Medicaid benefits our parents do now, when we reach our 60’s.
I think it’s rather cute that the plebs need to feel good about their lack of intellectual abilities by denegrating their superiors in that realm, but it is rather sad that so many people can’t see through such flimsy argumentation.
I’m so glad I studied logic in graduate school such that I can see what utterly illogical hogwash this article really is. There are plenty of reasons not to go to graduate school, but that still will never make graduate school a useless waste of time — especially not if you’re talented at what you do and get a top notch degree.
I realize most of you don’t have a quarter the brain power that I do, and hate the fact that we’ll have good jobs, low hours, and fun work. You’ll hate it even more that we’ll find it beneath ourselves to have to teach most of you, and would rather just work on our research. Perhaps if your parents were intelligent enough to get into graduate school, they will bear children who are also intelligent enough to survive a graduate degree and become a better person for it. Perhaps if laws restricting dolts from populating the world with more of their own kind were enacted, less people would think this article has some sort of merit and that the idiot who wrote it was in any way qualified to write the book she did. Just a thought …
you sound stupid.
I’m with you. Thanks for writing the truth.
And, as an employer, I KNOW I’m speaking with someone bright, diligent and capable, when I’m hiring a Ph.D in any field.
Many of my company’s projects require LONG-TERM work, much of it relying on the unglamorous and tedious effort it takes to turn out something of value. People who have only been to undergraduate school—and especially if they’ve “majored” in something like “Communications” or “Business Administration” or “Hospitality Management”, they’re not going to be as well versed with clients. You’ll see this at late night dinners with our most important customers.
The “in college because that’s how you get a good job” types who “majored” in things like the three areas above, are more likely to use incorrect grammar or say something seriously obtuse, “I had went to State because it was better!”. They people are more likely to look askance when references are made to well-known literary figures, whether a classic author, or one of his iconic characters.
The same person with the “I got the BA cause everybody says I need it for a good job but I learned everything I need to know on the job,” mentality is also the one I would never trust to accompany the very important client who might want to chat about politics, history, novels, film, internationalism, or the varieties of Asian cuisine. It would be a major faux pas just waiting to happen; the type of thing that can undo years of nurturing a very close client relationship.
Yes, I could fire her if she said something particularly clueless or egregious, let the client know and apologize profusely. But the lingering damage would be done; he’d be thinking from then on, why would I hire and trust such a person?
Liberal arts graduates get it. A classic education—especially if it extends beyond the undergraduate level—is immensely attractive to me as an employer. I know that this person can read, write and think. And in the workplace of the 21st century, today’s “knowledge” is tomorrow’s hoary dogma. Those who understand the history of science, the Gilded Age, existentialism, the Reformation, Shakespeare, Bach, and political economy are those best equipped to understand the fundamentals critical to success in any job, particularly in the modern era where change happens at an exponential rate.
So, slur those who understand that true education is different from the stolid and static “trade school – make money” mentality. But we’re the ones who can actually engage with life, form close relationships with all types of people, and have discussions beyond sports, consumer items, and “how much did that cost.”
My MFA program was 3 years (I just finishing in June). And any respectable MFA is 3 years (Masters of Fine Arts, i.e. in art, not writing). They granted me graduate teaching fellowships which included monthly stipends and a tuition waiver. If you get into a well funded program, and save some money before hand, you shouldn’t ever have to pay 80K. It’s even better in the field of healthcare, where there is so much funding available. My boyfriend attained his PhD and MD and did not pay a penny for it, due to the service he did as a resident. And all the MDs I know are pretty darn happy doing what they do. Yes, there is stress and challenge, ups and downs, but in any high level profession with lots of responsibility, wouldn’t that be normal? I also have attorneys in my family and they are quite happy. In this day and age though, I don’t believe all attorney or physician positions allow for a luxurious life style; more so they allow for comfort and some security if they live within their means. Outside this, you absolutely cannot teach on a university level without my degree, so it was essential for me to get it. The program taught me how to view things from a new perspective and think critically like I had never done before. And my professors were anything but “praising.” It was like boot camp for the mind. Even if I don’t end up being a professor in the long run, I have learned intellectual, professional and emotional skills that will apply in any profession.
As a recent college undergraduate I can tell you all this – .
In a perfect world, all of the smiling, resume giving, and note taking you did at your college career fair would have paid off immediately after you were handed your 60k+ piece of sheep skin, but it does not. Most companies and government agencies now list a bachelors as their "minimum" requirements. Furthermore, many recruiters at career fairs (especial those on the federal side) are not really there to look for applicants, unless they have specialized skills (i.e. majored in engineering), they are just there to pass time.
Unless you are privileged to have a "daddy" with connections on the inside, you are going to be in line with everyone else, and possibly even working at 7-11 to get by till your apps come through.
*Bachelors Degrees are a dime a dozen, and what employers really look for is experience,contacts,and work history. Today, anyone with enough money can go to any major university and BUY a degree. Hetch, they can be purchased online as well –
*Your GPA and area of study do not matter. I had well over a 3.0, but so did just about the 1500 students in my school of study who graduated with me. Unless you are applying for graduate school or majored in a specialized field, employers do not care your GPA or what educational skills you gained from your study. They are only impressed if you were at the top of your class, have some graduate level work, or have years of work experience. If you try to make "grades" the focal point if your "skills" on your resume or during an interview, the interviewer may take it as insult or view you as a "know it all" with no real experience.
*Currently employers are looking for those with either a lot of work experience (+3 full time) or graduate levels of education.
*Your internships, work study, or previous part time work experience do not matter unless you made strong connections and got good referrals from those jobs.
*Government agencies are notorious for taking forever to respond to applications, and (from my own personal experience)they may call you in for interviews or test only to tell you you are inexperienced (already knowing that you were not what they were looking for.) Agencies/departments that recruit at colleges and career fairs do this the most.
*Yes, it is true, many employers have unrealistic expectations of recent undergrads, especially those in high end companies and government agencies. They want applicants as young a new born lamb, but experienced as father time. In light of this there are three areas that WILL get you noticed when you apply for any job. They are LANGUAGES spoken, COMPUTER SKILLS acquired, and GRADUATE LEVEL COURSE WORK (a hint to all of those who are still undergrads or on their way to college.)
* Unless you are applying for jobs in specialized fields, i.e. engineering, medicine/health, law, IT, accounting, etc. your graduate level work (if you decide to pursue it)really will not matter to employers. Most are simply impressed that you completed some sort of program somewhere – .undergraduate degree – forget about it.
*In a perfect world EEOC, Fair Labor Standards, and non discriminatory mission statements would ensure that everyone's interview lead to a job or at least got a fair shake. The truth is many apps are disqualified and many applicants are turned down for petty reasons. "Lack of experience" is often a code for, "Your young, and therefore stupid for wasting my time, come back when you fit my expectations not the company's – ", "I just do not like the way you look – " "Our diversity quota is full – " or finally, "You will NOT help us meet our diversity quota – "
Face the facts, nepotism, contacts, and quotas are the way of the work world. A lot of HR managers have an axe to grind (and take their frustrations out on new applicants) and a lot more just generally dislike young applicants. It does not matter if your black, white, yellow, brown, the deck is stacked against you and even more so if you are young, have no contacts within the place you are applying for, and or lack a graduate, specialized, or IVY League level of education.
I’m not sure I agree with the grad school bit. Obviously it is going to depend on what field you work in, but these days it is much more common for people to have undergraduate degrees. Finding a job with only a high school degree is a rare thing, and having a graduate degree is a good way to set oneself apart from the competition. Also, most master’s programs are around 2 years. Professional programs (DMD, JD, MD, DVM) can be longer, but generally you can’t enter the field without them. Personally, I finished my master’s program in three semesters and I am glad I got it over with right out of school instead of trying to balance it with a full time job. I thoroughly enjoy reading your posts though, even if I don’t necessarily agree with all of them!
Penelope, thank you for another insightful & helpful article.
I must admit, I have to smile when I read the comments from others describing graduate school as “the best decision they ever made” or “the best thing they ever happened to them.” Of course, there’s no one right path for everyone – graduate school is definitely the right choice for some. But how can we ever say any one thing was “the best thing that ever happened” or “the best decision we ever made”? We’ll never know if that’s true. If something else would’ve happened or we would’ve made a different decision, our lives could have taken just as meaningful and rich a path. We could have been just as happy and fulfilled as we are today, having made other choices. We’ll never know, and that’s part of the excitement of it all. It’s bittersweet knowing we only have one go-round.
This post is right-on, and therefore I am saddened. The real question for me is, what are the sciences going to do as people gradually realize the uselessness of a PhD?
I currently have a job doing psychology research because I love doing it, but have refrained from applying to graduate school because, well, it’s SCHOOL, and who likes school? Yet, the more I work, playing in a lab, doing studies, and reading the literature, the more I wish there was an actual post-college vocation called “research” that didn’t involve a higher degree (as it is, I don’t get paid enough to survive). It could be a section of academia that lives thriving in a furious storm of the latest published work and self-taught, self-propelling scientists, much like the blogosphere provides a forum for anyone who wants to talk, and allows those who are the most impassioned to thrive talking. It would revolutionize science, to have thousands of excited graduates just churning out ideas and data, and reading, reading, reading, without the confines of meetings, advisers, advisees, classes, and requirements.
Of course graduate school is an extension of childhood. That’s the beauty of it. That’s also the beauty of academia in general. Professors are the least grown up bunch of grownups around. Also notice that professors are some of the happiest people.
I couldn’t agree more with the “Seven Reasons Why Graduate School is Outdated”. I only wish I had taken these points into serious consideration before enrolling in a two-year master’s degree program in 2005 in Media Arts at Emerson College in Boston. Yes, you heard correctly, media arts. It proved to be a colossal mistake for me.
Here’s what happened: Upon graduating from college with a bachelor’s in political science, I worked in government for a while. It was stable, secure, and I could deal with the nature of the work. However, it bored me to death and I didn’t have any genuine interest in politics and government. So after some intensive introspection and soul searching I found that one of my true passions, though I had barely any experience with it, was making movies. What was I to do for a career in this? I didn’t know, but I thought a graduate degree in something like film or media would certainly help propel things forward. Boy, was I wrong.
I considered film school, but found that all film schools were extremely selective and applicants needed to submit a portfolio, which I did not have, and had no idea how to go about developing at the time. I came upon a masters program in media arts at Emerson, a “liberal” and apparently “artsy” school in Boston. I enrolled in the program initially because I had a passion for the creative side of film and media (AKA-MAKING MOVIES). However, as it turned out I learned virtually nothing during these two years and developed no marketable skills whatsoever. I did not acquire any substantive academic knowledge, technical skill, or motivation from professors or peers. I did not meet anyone whom I was able to establish any substantive connection with (you know, you think you might meet a group of friends in school, stay in touch, and maybe start a company down the line) – didn’t happen. So not only was it a waste of time and money, but it also turned out to be a tremendous setback. I could have stayed in government, maybe pursued film on the side as a hobby while trying to channel myself into a different, more interesting field of work down the line. It was a horrible personal mistake on my part, and the severity of the problem is due in no small part to the specific school and program I attended. However, it does stand as a testament to the potential dangers of jumping into graduate school. So, my strong advice to anyone considering graduate school would be to obviously give the specific program serious thought and also think seriously about what you will do with the degree. With the possible exception of an MBA or Law degree, which seem to be pretty marketable across broad areas, graduate school is very specified, or at least appears specified on your resume to employers. I know it is difficult some times, but be smart about it, heed the “seven reasons” above.
Thanks for publishing this. I’m almost 25 years old, possibly heading towards the ol’ quarter-life crisis, and i’m currently in the process of dropping out of my grad program after almost a year into the program. I saw grad school as the next logical step in bettering myself and my passion for what i do, however i quickly realized that most graduate students are young people my age who are just scared to grow up, and most of the professors in my program have no concept of constructivist teaching; the product they sell is traditionalist, rote-memorization formatted education that has little or no carry-over to the real world. it’s funny how trade schools are popping up all over to help those enrolled to get jobs in the field, and universities, which originally were havens that harbored critical thinking, have now abandoned critical thinking for the primary purpose of teaching their students how to get jobs. The caveat here is that trade schools, although often looked down upon, are doing a better job of what they intend to do and universities are doing a horrible job at what they claim to do.
I don’t know about this. Myself and plenty of the other “biology major” students who are graduating in a month are headed for professional schools…medical schools, vet schools, doctor of physical therapy (me= three years plus summers of grad study and clinicals). And while I absolutely can’t speak for all of them, I can testify that I, after thorough research of my chosen career and tons of observational hours (required simply to APPLY to school), have decided to get into my field because I want to help people and I think that I would be very good at it. Period. A professional doctorate is needed, so I will get it. I don’t want to prolong childhood, I don’t necessarily yearn for praise, and I definitely don’t think this is the easy choice. I do, however, want to learn as much as possible. Some people do go to graduate school because they love to learn and to research, and while my degree is a “professional degree”, I will get the chance to do some research and participate in some important projects. And I love to learn. There are people like that out there.
On the other hand, I can say that this is a small population of people, from what I have gathered. But it does exist.
While I don’t agree with everything you are saying, I think you are 100% right when you said “Graduate school requires you to know what will make you happy before you try it.” I spent two years in grad school, prior to getting a great job offer. To make a long story short I quit school for that job and have found that nothing I learned in grad school applies to my job even though my job title is exactly what I majored in. Now that I have worked for a while I am going to a different program that is more tailored to my needs, particularly a professional studies program that is actually tailored to working people. Most of what I learned in grad school was theory rather than practical knowledge. If we are in the business of teaching people how to do things we need to leave the theory for ph.d and give masters students the chance to learn how to do things at an advanced pace (sort of a step above undergrad).
This article is ridiculous. The author obviously has no idea what she’s talking about when it comes to true academia, because this article is absolutely, totally, completely irrelevant to any PhD programs.
this blog post is just terrible. its obvioulsy bbeen writen by someone who has not attended graduate school. We all go to university to gain knowledge in order to seperate ourselfs, in a way, from those who do not go. Education is a signaling device for perspective employers, the more of it you have the better your chances are of doing better. This author clearly doesnt know anything about about economic theories on the subject, even though he is quoting people with an economic background, who by the way must have attended graduate school………
My personal opinion is that if you want to be a doctor or lawyer then you HAVE TO go to grad school. However, for those that pursue business school if you are not going to an ivy league school (looks good on resumes) then I think it is pointless. Business school can NOT teach you to hustle and work hard, that is up to the individual. If there is something that really interests you then just go for it. Text books will not teach you how to motivate yourself to land a deal. An example of a great businessman and entrepreneur would be Gary Vaynerchuck (check his wine library tv site).
Hi Penelope,
As a graduate student 2 weeks from finishing my Ph.D. in the biomedical sciences field, I have to chime in and say that I couldn’t agree with you more – every bullet point was spot on. Science (and grad school in general) totally sucks. I see all these thousands of Ph.D.’s and feel just absolute disdain for them – a bunch of losers. I was fortunate to have something else as a backup in case science ended up being a dead-end (which it basically is), and I’ll be going down a more professional route than the academic route (bunch of losers, did I mention that before?). All I can hope to gain from my Ph.D. is to leverage the “prestige” of it as much as it can relate to my backup profession. So, not a total loss. A total loss would have been if I had just gone to grad school thinking it was a cool thing to do.
On another note, I’m a recent subscriber to your blog, and am now a big fan. Your stories are honest, insightful, and compelling. I applaud you. Cheers!
Dig
I am currently in the end-stages of a cognitive science phd, and while I love my subject area, I do not like the pace and temper of academic research. So…I agree that grad school is a pyramid scheme. I agree that it prolongs childhood. I agree there are many reasons NOT to go, but only GOING has made me realize that loving to learn and loving my subject area and being capable of doing quality research are NOT enough. So now what do I do? Your blog doesn’t really address what to do when you FINISH grad school, and it was through that process that you realized the academic life is not for you. You make it sound like having a phd will be a blight on my resume, so please tell me how to overcome this blight. I have no debt, since they paid me to do my degree, and I have expert knowledge. That’s not really so bad is it? Besides berating grad school, although I agree with many of your criticisms, I’d love to hear some advice for those of us moving away from an academic career.
Your arguments about why one should not go to graduate school sound pretty convincing. However, from someone who actually skipped on a higher education, threw himself into working and has now returned to school to finish his degree, I'm not so sure about how valid these points actually are. No matter how much you fight it, the truth remains that a college education is the best possible way to insure higher earning power after graduation. There are a number of different majors to choose from, all paying differently but on the whole, a college graduate will earn more money than those who do not have a college education or degree. In fact, in keeping with the increase in demand by mature students, colleges are offering more options for students who wish to return to their education even after they have entered the work force. People now realize that it is never too late to increase your earning potential or improve your chances of being promoted by seeking a higher education. Whether it's people taking a break from their jobs or switching careers and resuming their education or adults who return to complete education that was left unfinished the first time around, schools now offer special accelerated and online degree programs. This allows even more options for those students who are juggling careers, family, and their education. The truth of the matter is that there are no disadvantages to graduating with a college degree. Along with increasing one's earning potential and promotion potential, the most important improvement occurs with one's self-image. A college education gives one a sense of accomplishment and confidence that may be just what is needed in your professional and personal life.
I really don’t understand where your information comes from! Have you REALLY been reading job advertisements and applying for work anywhere before you wrote this?
Grad school, I agree, would be an enormous waste of time and money for myself, but lets face it; the gate holders for MOST desirable positions either have Master’s degrees or INSIST their candidates have such even before being considered.
How can you blaze your own trail, unless you are privledged with a trust fund or have someone supporting your highly unprofitable time of exploration and experimentation?
I am near 50, but have several decades of real and valuable expertise which is being jettisoned by interviewers the SECOND I set down (unquestionably due to my age), so please spare me the old saw of experience and determination overcoming obstacles in the workplace, because factors like medical group rates increases trump everything in this economy.
I don’t think there is a grad school out there that could teach me much about my field of expertise, but you need to acknowledge that the concepts of life-experience and actual competence do not matter anymore to HR personnel who use templates and word recognition software to initially vet their interview choices.
I don’t think you know what you are talking about.
I’m currently in Grad school and disagree with this article. Yes if all you do is go to grad school and do nothing else, you have a lot of valid points here. However, if your doing grad school you should also be working within your field, testing your ideas, passions, and beliefs so when you get out of grad school you already know what and were you want to be in your field, and you have the experience to get there.
I have to greatly disagree with the value of being “lost.” Such a concept doesn’t have any historical validity, as prior generations certainly didn’t spend years in their 20s trying to “find themselves” or wander from job to job figuring out what they really wanted to do.
I took a semester off in the middle of law school to see if it’s really what I wanted to do, and you know what, life outside of grad school is a great deal easier and cushier than life inside. Get a 9-5 job that pays the bills, rent an apartment, and just hang out with friends and read, travel, whatever, in your spare time. That’s not any kind of significant degree of responsibility. It’s just existing and looking out for yourself.
I had a lovely time in my semester off because there was no pressure, no need for perseverance, no real need for the self-discipline required to study. Watched a lot of TV shows that I didn’t have time for when I was in school. Read some good books. And saw that most jobs I would be able to get without a grad degree were going to be nowhere near the intellectual challenge that I desired.
That said, I have to call “bs” on the idea that grad school is an extension of childhood or that somehow going to a 9-5 everyday automatically means that one has figured themselves out, is pushing themselves, or anything else like that. If grad school–especially professional degrees–were easy to obtain, easy to persevere through, and required no maturity…well, everyone would have them.
I found a lot more laziness in the 9-5 world than in law school.
Graduate school is a door leading to academia. A graduate degree typically isn’t needed to get into the workforce. However, there are some people out there with a massive amount of intelligence and a bottomless reserve of determination. For these people, the opportunity to contribute to an enormous body of knowledge, and the chance to change the world, is what motivates them to pursue graduate school. Graduate school is not, however, an extension of childhood. Very few children are able to muster the sweat, blood, and raw intelligence needed to get into and succeed in graduate school.
If all you want is a job, then no, do not go to graduate school. It will cost you both your kidneys and chances are you’ll change your career in several years. Unless you want to help advance mankind’s total body of knowledge then don’t even think about graduate school; you won’t last.
Graduate school is a colossal waste of time.
Hindsight is always 20/20, however if the me of the present could go back and tell the me of the past one thing it would be that graduate school is a waste of time.
Maybe I could save one person from putting their life on hold by dissuading them from going to graduate school. They are years that you will never get back.
I must disagree with your article, Penelope. While you may have some points when remarking about students entering graduate school before they even get their first full-time position, you fail to realize that graduate school for working professionals could be the great leap for individuals seeking to get the skills they need for management positions. I believe that graduate school will continue to increase in importance for a mid-level professionl. Part time accelerated graduate degree programs are a great solution for the 30 or 40-something who has a plan and knows that a masters degree will get them there.
I think this is so very right:
and:
I’ve got a masters degree in business/marketing not out of interest but because I thought that a generalist business degree would make me employable in any industry. Coming from a country where the state sponsors all higher education plus living costs for students*, my debt is far below $80,000 and would have been zero had I not studied abroad.
However, I think it is right that a degree can be a risk in itself, particularly in countries where a high education is not standard. I went to university at 35+ to break out of being stuck in low level menial jobs which paid bad, were insecure and uninteresting and heavily infested with social intrigues and politics (probably most workplaces are, except for the ones without people;-) and I have good intellectual abilities, so why not.
So I did a BA in business. The master (abroad), also in business, was partly a way to obtain visa and eventually secure permanent residency in the lovely country where we now live. Business/commerce/marketing seemed the safest ~ most employable line of study. There were also many more scholarships available for business studies abroad than any other field of study, due to my home country’s great appetite for global competitiveness.
However, as for employability: experience, sociability, connections, initiative and personality match drive employability… if there are shortcomings on those points, then a degree won’t help.
Worse yet: The combination of a high degree and a big gap in the resume looks particularly bad, because it doesn’t make sense to invest in an education and then not use it… except if the person is unemployable.
Plus, while the degree won’t give access to a higher level job without relevant experience, it can block the access to entry level positions… because a high degree signals high ambition, and just like Penelope said: employers don’t like to be second choice.
*Courtesy of the Scandinavian welfare model and its tax payers.
Just came to think: while it applies to the US and the country where we live now, in countries where a high education is the norm (for example Korea and the Scandinavian countries) you’d be stuck without a degree. Not that a high education guarantees you a job; but not having one prevents you from getting it.
Now when I come to think, in my home country you can’t even buy a farm without having a farming degree. Or spray the fields with pesticides (you need a spraying certificate to do that… which is part of the farming degree).
Thanks for a good blog, by the way… it is very entertaining and useful.
By the way: in Korea prospective employers zealously peruse your degree, but not only that: they will also want to know about your parents’ degrees. If your parents are uneducated, then good luck getting the job (according to my Korean friend).
Ps…
Notwithstanding the question about the usefulness of a higher degree for employability: the in-depth concentration and discipline demanded by a university degree does have value in itself, on a human level.
I’ve had subjects that forced me to change the way I think and thereby changed my life (for example Cultural Sociology, Statistics, and Organisation) – and subjects that enable me to better understand the way the world works much better (e.g. economics, organisation and international business).
Even if never using the degree in a suitable role, I think the educational level of citizens does matter for a society. Many aspects of the world appears to be counter-intuitive at first (like statistical models) and in order to understand them it is necessary to disconnect from the world for a while and focus intensively on changing perspective – that won’t happen with a 9-5 job. People impact their surroundings through their decisions and interaction with other people, relationships and parenthood, so an education is not just an investment in one person.
Hi Penelope,
If you read this, can you please delete my comment above? (and this one). There are too many mistakes in it. Thank you in advance…
Ps. A 5 minutes regret/editing function on comments would be a great feature. Some blogs or forums* have that; so comments can be edited up to 5 minutes** after being posted, and then not any more.
*don’t remember where I have seen it
**just an example – it may be 3 or 10 minutes
Most of this is only partially accurate.
I am going to graduate school after taking two years to work and figure out what I’m doing. I found that the only job I really wanted to do required graduate school.
Education is never a waste of time.
We need a more educated society, not less.