My plan for going forward
I’m frustrated that I have so much traffic coming to this blog (about 750,000 page views this month) and I have this post about domestic violence at the top spot in my blog. It’s the first thing everyone sees about me. I want the post to go away. I want to post about how to write a resume in five easy steps. People love lists.
If it weren’t that I’ve already blogged about sex abuse, my miscarriage and my divorce, I’d worry that my blog will never get past the topic of domestic violence, and I’ll face blogger doom. But I know from past experience that being genuine with other people helps one’s career get stronger.
Someone wrote in the comments section that there is no domestic violence, there is only violence. But that’s not true. Because domestic violence is the violence that’s hard to walk away from.
I’m not walking away from the Farmer right now. I want to say that I’ll leave if he does it again. I want to say that if he pushes me or shoves me or hits me, that all that stuff counts as abuse. It’s hard for me to believe that it counts; I didn’t believe my dad was abusing me even when the police were taking me away.
But I have hundreds of you telling me in the comments section and in your emails that this is not right.
And I know that even if I’m messed up, I don’t want my sons messed up. If it happens again I think I could hide it from everyone, you, my sons, my brothers–they called me to tell me to leave. I could refuse to tell anyone, and do this whole messed up relationship in private. I know people do that. But I know it would show, on me.
When I was practicing cello with my son a few nights ago, I said, “Don’t look at me. Look at your bow.”
And he said, “I’m looking to see if you’re smiling. You never smile.”
I know I am not hiding anything.
So maybe what is left for me is that I can be the expert on not hiding.
I got offers from all over the world for places to stay. Finland, Pakistan, Brazil. It’s unbelievable, really, how many people offered up their homes and their guest houses to me and my sons. And about fifty people who I have never met in person told me I can call them if I need someone to talk to. I have very few close friends, so the offers meant a lot to me.
I called one person: Amanda Hite. I have met her a couple of times. She is a straight shooter and a little callous, so I knew that if I started being a crazy, crying nutcase on the phone, she’d handle it. Also, she works for herself, so I thought it might be fine to call her with no notice in the middle of the day.
I told Amanda I can’t leave because I don’t want to raise the boys alone, and I know I’ll never put them through another marriage again if this one doesn’t work, and they love the Farmer. They call him dad.
Amanda was adamant that if the Farmer touches me again–in anger–I should leave, with the boys. “Just for 30 days,” is what she finally said.
I can do that. I have a friend in New York City. Lisa. She has an extra bedroom in her apartment. She’ll let us stay. She doesn’t know she’s part of the plan. Until now. Amanda says that during those 30 days, enough people will call me and convince me to leave for good. I think that’s probably true.
Amanda is a recruiter, but she is a consulting recruiter. She spends her time trying to get people to be honest about why their recruiting sucks so that she can help them fix it. Most people who say they need help with recruiting blame the candidate pool, or the jobs they have, or other, external factors. Amanda helps them to take responsibility and be honest about their problem.
I’m drawn to her because that’s my message here on this blog: face your problems with honesty. So I want to tell you that I am terrible at intimacy. I don’t think I’ve ever done it, ever. I’m not even sure what it is. And I don’t think I need to tell you that the Farmer has no idea what it is, either.
So we are in twice-a-week therapy. And maybe we will learn something. Maybe we will save ourselves, and the boys and our family. Or maybe we are just in the middle of a cycle of abuse.
It is my hope that this blog will keep me honest, and that the next time, I will leave.
I admire your courage in presenting yourself, warrts and all to your audience. Hopefully it will serve as an example to all of us to be ourselves, and hopefully you will find your smile again.
I admire your courage in presenting yourself, warrts and all to your audience. Hopefully it will serve as an example to all of us to be ourselves, and hopefully you will find your smile again.
Oh, please. Focusing on the terrible Farmer for hitting poor Penelope is ridiculous. There are two sides to this. I’m sure it didn’t come out of nowhere. I’m not blaming the victim here, but really. I wonder what else someone who breaks lamps over there own head, and leaves the broken shards around to make a statement is capable of. We read about all the crazy antics and are supposed to think it’s charming. It is entertaining, but I sure as hell wouldn’t want to live with this unpredictable person. There’s another side here, that’s all.
Oh, please. Focusing on the terrible Farmer for hitting poor Penelope is ridiculous. There are two sides to this. I’m sure it didn’t come out of nowhere. I’m not blaming the victim here, but really. I wonder what else someone who breaks lamps over there own head, and leaves the broken shards around to make a statement is capable of. We read about all the crazy antics and are supposed to think it’s charming. It is entertaining, but I sure as hell wouldn’t want to live with this unpredictable person. There’s another side here, that’s all.
I’ve been working in the field of intimate partner violence for over ten years now, and after reading all of these comments, and the comments on the last post, there is one thing that is screaming at me that no one has really touched on. Being in an unhealthy/abusive relationship is incredibly nuanced! Look, I know what I’m suppose to say, and what everyone here has been saying to one degree or another — if there is abuse, leave. No one deserves to be in an abusive situation. And yes, that is absolutely true. But most of the time, it’s NOT that SIMPLE!! And I’m finding it annoying that your experience, or at least what you’ve shared with us here, is being reduced to simple tropes. Every path is unique, and the only one who knows how to walk it is you, the one who is experiencing it. (though if you feared for your safety or the safety of your children, I would be saying something different)
Moreover, if you come from an abusive past, your path will be that much more crooked and jagged, and perhaps unrecognizable to those that don’t. Overcoming that past is incredibly hard, and it’s not just as black and white as “any form of violence = abandon situation”. Space might help in achieving clarity, but again, you know how you work best. The truth is that we are attracted to individuals who give us something particular, usually something that will help us learn what we really need to learn the most. So, listen. hard. to yourself, to your spouse. But mostly, to the deep, dark trenches of your inner self. The answers are all there.
The first thing that I thought of when reading your last post was, “uh-oh. Those kids are going to miss school”: I grew up in an abusive household. I can count on one hand the amount of physical violence that was exchanged between my parents, but the verbal, emotional, psychological abuse was constant. The one thing that I looked forward to was school. I loved going to school because I got to escape being home. It was my saviour. I looked forward to September, and didn’t actually care for holidays from school. Again, you know best, and I also don’t have autism so social situation are fine for me. But it’s worth sharing, I think.
You rock, Penelope.
Yep, thanks Valerie for all your posts on this topic, the only one that stood out as anyone to actually pay attention to. Also frustrated and irritable about how simply easy a lot of people think that she could just leave.
But, regarding school, I think that for you that was an option, but there in Wisconsin they have land and pigs, and cats, and sky, and gravel, and space to get away, if they are allowed to roam a bit. Space to imagine a life for themselves rather than try to fit into someone else’s schema for what it means to be a person/student/boy from a rocky homelife. Rocky as in jagged like you mentioned.
Awesome post Valerie! And that’s why I think homeschooling is pretty much a bad idea…kids pick up the crazies that parents don’t even know they have!! Don’t put all your eggs in one basket…
And holy cow, I have never experienced abuse…but looks brutal. I imagine absuers/abused actually like the drama and that’s why they do it. Seriously, just stop pounding on each other. I had neighbors like this once and they were just annoying – no kids involved so I didn’t care/wouldn’t help. Don’t want to be sucked into the vortex of mental illness…
Awesome post Valerie! And that’s why I think homeschooling is pretty much a bad idea…kids pick up the crazies that parents don’t even know they have!! Don’t put all your eggs in one basket…
And holy cow, I have never experienced abuse…but looks brutal. I imagine absuers/abused actually like the drama and that’s why they do it. Seriously, just stop pounding on each other. I had neighbors like this once and they were just annoying – no kids involved so I didn’t care/wouldn’t help. Don’t want to be sucked into the vortex of mental illness…
I don’t think anyone likes the drama of abuse. But I do think it’s perpetuated by those who have experienced it because that what they know. It is very very difficult to break out of that cycle, because you essentially have to learn new skills, skills that were probably never modeled for you. And it is incredibly difficult to break old habits and old patterns of behaviour, especially if they have been bred into you since you were a child. It’s not impossible though it takes an enormous amount of work. The power of transcendence, truly is the greatest that one can employ.
Agree on the homeschooling. I think it is a bad idea to isolate the kids from a society of their peers, to be stuck all day at home, especially if it is a dysfunctional home. I really believe the children who went to good day-care programs turn out to be the most socially well adjusted members of society. Sure, the public schools have gang influences and all, but they also have all the normal things that schools have always had, extracurricular programs, friends. People who home school their kids are afraid of something. I have heard many times from victims of dysfunctional homes that their work was their escape to normalcy, and they dreaded going home. Same goes for school.
I read your blog for the perspicacity you display regarding career questions, for the social media connectedness (or whatever you want to call it) with regards to others blogging in the same arena AND because I too have Asbergers and have to navigate both career and relationships in a similar manner to you. So I like the personal stories, but if you left them off the table, I’d still read for your cogent thoughts on career questions.
Btw, I don’t see what you’ve written about the Farmer to be domestic violence (which I define as one person controlling another via violence or the threat of violence so that the victim modifies their behavior purely to avoid the violence) but rather as a situation of the Farmer still not understanding what Asbergers means and being pushed to the brink of frustration and acting out on it. Right now my husband is deployed and is not communicating with me. This is the result of an argument we had before he left that I caused based upon long-standing issues he originally instigated. He’s tired of it. He’s tired of being frustrated with me, tired of never really understanding … which is likely where your Farmer is. No matter what I do, how I try and control myself, I wear people out with those things about my personality that will never go away. My husband expresses being worn out by completely shutting down communicating with me. Sounds like the Farmer does it by pushing you away physically.
That said, if one shove is your personal deal breaker then so be it. In that aspect it doesn’t matter how it’s categorized (e.g. domestic violence, frustration, accident).
There’s a book I’m finding helpful. Too good to leave/too bad to stay. It poses a series of questions that gets you away from the pro/con lists and helps you recognize if what you have is worth saving or if it would truly be better to leave. You might find it thought provoking.
Thank you for your blog and how upfront & honest you are. It’s a godsend for me.
Wow!!! I guess some people think they know Pelelope (California Dreaming) — Do you? If not you might keep your trap shut. (RUBBISH he/she said)
I think maybe you shouldn’t wait til the next time, Penelope. You have places to stay, it sounds like. Does the farmer know about you blogging about this yet? If not what if he finds out. How violent will he get next time? Maybe the next time is murder (literally). Or maybe California Dreaming does know you. I am not one to say. I don’t know you. Either if you are staying or just lying …. you are only hurting yourself and possibly your children.
I know that is harsh. But, SERIOUSLY…. I assuming your are not the fibber that California Dreaming is talking about so rubbishly… 30 days is not long. One day at a time is not hard as the 12 steppers do it.
I know that is harsh. But, SERIOUSLY…. I assuming your are not the fibber that California Dreaming is talking about so rubbishly… 30 days is not long. One day at a time is not hard as the 12 steppers do it.
I think so many women have been in similar situations unfortunately. Having an abusive father makes it difficult for you to relate to men honestly or naturally because your previous learned patterns are so abnormal. Frankly, I think you should move out because the next time will be worse. Unfortunately, you are part of the problem too. Suggestion, find the real Adrienne Roston, the happy one, what makes you happy – find it. Don’t rely on men to make you happy. Forget your father and dysfunctional family. Find yourself, what makes you happy.
I think so many women have been in similar situations unfortunately. Having an abusive father makes it difficult for you to relate to men honestly or naturally because your previous learned patterns are so abnormal. Frankly, I think you should move out because the next time will be worse. Unfortunately, you are part of the problem too. Suggestion, find the real Adrienne Roston, the happy one, what makes you happy – find it. Don’t rely on men to make you happy. Forget your father and dysfunctional family. Find yourself, what makes you happy.
I’m only an occasional visitor to this blog. I haven’t read the entire blog although it wouldn’t matter if I did read it all. In your Asperger-y way, you seem to be crowdsourcing a solution to your problem, and so we are free to judge. I suspect your solution isn’t in the comments, but in your own quest to find the truth.
Not one commentor on here knows the whole story. You (PT) probably don’t know the Farmer’s story and he probably doesn’t know yours. It takes years and years and years to really get to know someone.
Based on what you have written, it is easy to make judgements about you because you given us plenty of data to do so. All the data isn’t there, however.
For some, it is easy to judge the Farmer because they see themselves in a situation like you and the Farmer. But no one here knows the real story of you or the Farmer.
Some commentors believe that physical violence is some sort of line in the sand that you never cross and if your spouse does cross that line, then you should leave and that’s it, time to start the next chapter of your life. That’s simplistic. Of course, at some point lines must be drawn. Where is that line when it comes to emotional violence? Just because you can’t see it doesn’t mean there is no such line.
Emotional violence can be more insidious than physical violence. I’m not saying that it is in this situation. It may not exist at all in this case; I don’t know. It’s all bad, though.
Often, the physical violence manifests itself because the attacker is incapable (without help) of dealing with the issues in the emotional realm.
Sometimes, the battle is fought on the emotional front because that’s where it is most effective, or because the attacker knows physical violence would be ineffective.
Get help for yourselves so you can fight the good fight at each other’s side instead of fighting each other. Be careful in selecting a counselor. I suggest you each understand the counselor’s core philosophy and are on board with it. Get help for yourselves separately, also.The first step is coming to honest terms with yourself. Godspeed.
P.S. You may have opened Pandora’s box by writing about this publicly. I hope the two of you are able to maintain some control of the situation. The government is all too happy to take important decisions out of your hands. Don’t help them do it; the damage to your kids may be worse and it will certainly be out of your control.
Well said.
I’ve been thinking along these lines too. Although physical violence is certainly bad, it’s almost like because it’s so clear (like you say, a definable line in the sand) that it gets more “credit” than emotional violence.
When I was young people said “Sticks and stones can break your bones but words can never hurt you.” This was supposed to be a comfort or defense when school bullies made one’s life miserable by taunting. Now it seems that people have realized this isn’t true when it comes to school, and emotional violence (“names”) is being taken seriously. But somehow in grown-up relationships (or at least in the comments here), it’s back to the “sticks and stones” philosophy.
I think both are bad, but the verbal/emotional kind can almost be more insidious.
Like you say though, we only have one person’s take on the situation.
I’ve often thought about the damage the old “Sticks and Stones” axiom has wreaked upon our understanding of emotional reality. Now we have kids being tormented on-line, as well as in person, many of them turning to suicide as a solution. We know more about bullying because of the internet, but at the same time, the internet has made it impossible for kids to escape it. I don’t see a solution on the horizon, especially since it is the preferred method of political discourse by the extremists who have infiltrated our government offices.
I think you have raised an important point that seems to be lost on many of the posters here: that emotional abuse is also extremely damaging to individuals and family members. And it can go on for much longer than physical abuse. It’s harder quantify, easier to hide. I actually think that we have somehow been conditioned to accept the emotional stuff, but at the first hint of a physical confrontation, all guns start blazing. In a way, moving from the emotional to the physical brings the dysfunction out of the closet and forces all parties to recognize the reality of the relationship. No solution is possible until this recognition takes place. Of course, we have all heard the definition of insanity.
I think you have raised an important point that seems to be lost on many of the posters here: that emotional abuse is also extremely damaging to individuals and family members. And it can go on for much longer than physical abuse. It’s harder quantify, easier to hide. I actually think that we have somehow been conditioned to accept the emotional stuff, but at the first hint of a physical confrontation, all guns start blazing. In a way, moving from the emotional to the physical brings the dysfunction out of the closet and forces all parties to recognize the reality of the relationship. No solution is possible until this recognition takes place. Of course, we have all heard the definition of insanity.
I like you Penelope but you’re a big, big handful and the farmer cannot handle it. You’ll need to go for yourself and the kids and the farmer.
I like you Penelope but you’re a big, big handful and the farmer cannot handle it. You’ll need to go for yourself and the kids and the farmer.
Dear Penelope,
I have an impression that you like doing research. Why not do research on domestic abusive and how women managed to get away from it? Learning how other people dealt with these problems can help you form a strategy to move in a direction that is correct for you and along the way do the usual mistakes and learn from them.
Whatever way your life goes, I appreciate your blog and what you share of your life and knowledge.
Penelope, HURRAY! It is so great to hear that you have a plan to get out and stay safe. Next time, you will leave.
Please ignore the pathological assholes who have found their way into your comments and are blaming you for the abuse or criticizing your decisions. The only reason for anyone to view your situation in this way is because they are abusers themselves. Their opinions don’t count.
Please DO take comfort in the more-numerous comments supporting you, encouraging you to leave for your own and your kids’ sake, and affirming that YOU ARE NOT CRAZY–not making this up, not overreacting, and not to blame for it. Look at all these people who have rallied around you. We all believe you and are on your side and want to see you in a better situation. Good luck!!!
Why do you think it’s wise to pick sides in something you know almost nothing about?
self hatred is hard on relationships because there’s someone else to reaffirm that hatred. you hate yourself and think – can i get someone to confirm that i’m not good enough? most people can probably confirm this for you if you try hard enough. this is not the same thing as being abusive or being to blame for the abuse you get.
the abuser also has a similar part and wants to find someone who will help make this part visible so he can prove to himself that it’s as bad as he thinks. but then he can always turn it around – it was that other person who made it visible – and it’s only when it’s visible that we know that it’s there. if he could be alone. no one would have to see that side of him.
intimacy is the opposite. so in order to get to intimacy there’s got to be something you love about yourself and you want to experience that with someone else. most relationships have both but ones that have more intimacy are better for both people. both people have to really focus on finding and sharing the parts of themselves they love without fear of rejection.
Your reasons for trying to make your family work are worthwhile. If you can get through this in a healthy way it will be a great series of lessons for your kids.
You remind me of my wife in that you have multiple issues that stress all of your relationships. When she and I were close to a breaking point, like you are now, I decided that I would continue to work on our relationship because I would rather have an interesting/stimulating wife with all the issues than either nothing or some boring relationship. This was about fifteen years ago. We have been together 25 years now with two great kids who have seen us work stuff out.
Here’s the kicker: counseling was marginally helpful but the real difference maker was medication. Her anxiety/eating disorder issues were only truly helped with a trial and error approach to finding the right medication and dosages. Her effort in this area was so incredible given her fear of being poisoned by bad meds.
I hope you can find a way to make it all work whichever path you choose.
Love this reply. I like that you stayed because she was interesting and stimulating. Medication requires a lot of patience because no one knows what will help so you have to be courageous enough to trust that a solution will be found.
My thoughts/comment on this are the same as when your wrote about breaking the lamp during a fight. You seem to be a very selfish person who latched onto the farmer, not because you loved him, but for what you could give you. In this post, you don’t say you are staying because you love him, you are staying for what he can conintue to give you. You think it’s great that your kids have someone they can call “Dad”, which seems really odd, since they do have a Dad they spend every Sunday with. I wonder what they call him? What kind of altered reality
are you trying to piece together? You talk about how important honesty is, but it seems like your personal life is nothing but a facade. Isn’t that the kind of stuff that really screws kids up? I agree with California Deaming, put the kids back in school. Spending time away from your house of mirrors will only benefit them. I don’t see how they could ever function in the real world after being cloistered in your crazy world of fantasy.
This may sound harsh but I’m not saying this to be hurtful, just truthful.
Just quoting you….
In this seminal study, Judith Wallerstein tracked a large sample of children of divorce for 25 years. And she found that unless there is violence in the home, kids suffer more from parents getting a divorce than staying in a bad marriage.
So u end the marriage that did not have violence in the relationship and stay with the one who does. STRANGE!
Just quoting you….
In this seminal study, Judith Wallerstein tracked a large sample of children of divorce for 25 years. And she found that unless there is violence in the home, kids suffer more from parents getting a divorce than staying in a bad marriage.
So u end the marriage that did not have violence in the relationship and stay with the one who does. STRANGE!
I’ve been reading your blog for 6+ months, and keep coming back for the sick attracttion of watching a crazy stranger from a safe distance. For the entire time I’ve wondered why the Farmer would agree to be written about in your blog – has he ever ACTUALLY agreed to that, or did you just steamroller over him and do it? You say you don’t do intimacy – no sh!t, Sherlock! Writing a public blog about your marriage issues is a KEY symptom of the problem … which is: 1) that you know NO sense of boundaries whatsoever, and 2) you are desperate for ATTENTION of ANY kind, including the kind that comes from total strangers like me who can’t stop watching the insanity play out. The Farmer was likely a normal, reasonably well adjusted guy before your insanity intruded on his previosuly tranquil life. One doesn’t get much experience with your exotic strain of wackiness in rural Wisconsin, so your VERY strong / relentless personality has ground him down and now he snapped. I AM NOT IN ANY WAY CONDONING HIS VIOLENCE (if indeed it happened) … I’m merely saying that SOMETHING caused him to snap, and based on what I’ve read on your blog over the past 6+ months I sincerely and with great sensitivity must suggest that there’s a reasonable chance that YOU were that “something”. Get help girl … and PLEASE be willing to LISTEN to your therapist and the Farmer. God bless you all.
Humans are hard wired to be attracted to what shows disinterest in them. If man’s disinterest is the essence of heroine’s attraction to him, man’s abuse is even more harder to resist. Success stories from men who show nothing but love are rare. But like a virus that thrives at the expense of its host, eventually it destroys its host & dies with it.
The farmer is going to kill you. There’s not much therapy, honesty, or faith can do about it. Every week, another wife is killed by her husband & it’s this exact same story. Copyright 2011, all right’s reserved, Penelope Trunk. They don’t often hit the news, but it’s not much of a jump from your current situation to murder. There will be no more Trunk blog. Everything you wrote about feminism being bad & women domesticating themselves will be refuted when your own preaching kills you.
“The farmer is going to kill you. There’s not much therapy, honesty, or faith can do about it.” Are you kidding me. I am far more fearful for the farmer’s life than hers.
Humans are hard wired to be attracted to what shows disinterest in them. If man’s disinterest is the essence of heroine’s attraction to him, man’s abuse is even more harder to resist. Success stories from men who show nothing but love are rare. But like a virus that thrives at the expense of its host, eventually it destroys its host & dies with it.
The farmer is going to kill you. There’s not much therapy, honesty, or faith can do about it. Every week, another wife is killed by her husband & it’s this exact same story. Copyright 2011, all right’s reserved, Penelope Trunk. They don’t often hit the news, but it’s not much of a jump from your current situation to murder. There will be no more Trunk blog. Everything you wrote about feminism being bad & women domesticating themselves will be refuted when your own preaching kills you.
Penelope-
750,000 page views this month branding the Farmer as a wife-beating abusive husband.
Hundreds of anonymous clueless commenters projecting their pain and fears onto your situation.
Your life isn’t a Kickstarter project. Five bucks of advice from each person isn’t going to tell you if you should stop or go.
Good thing the Farmer is self employed; you’ve made it so if he ever tried to get a job he’d be fucked.
I still enjoy your writing. Good luck Penelope.
In your previous blog entrry, it’s titled “This is me battling imposter syndrome.” Yes, you are an imposter, fraud, liar, charlatan, phony, sham, pretender, and fake. All through your blog are references to how hot you are, how much oral sex you’re getting and how brilliant, insightful, influential and powerful a woman you are. How’s all that hotness and oral sex working. But you’ve faked almost everything else in your life, your supposed marriage that isn’t even legally recognized, your supposed Asperger Syndrome that has no supporting diagnosis, even your supposed enterprenurial acumen.
And here’s why you’re an imposter, fraud, liar, charlatan, phony, sham and fake. For all your talk about happiness and achievement, you can’t even guarantee your own safety or that of your sons. And because of that, all your fakery is exposed, and you’ve got a bag filled with nothing.
And if you can’t even keep yourself and your sons safe and secure, any kind of advice beyond that is just a bunch of noise and hot air.
One more thing…
After years of working in the field, one thing that really stands out to me is how physical abuse seems to be in this special category – like that’s the only kind that matters. In some ways, I think that’s the easiest to deal with, because it’s the most visible, the easiest to name. I think that’s why so many people say that pushing and shoving is where they would draw the line. There is a whole slew of things that happens before the physical violence, and it’s just as valid. The physical violence is a symptom, it’s not the whole problem. Emotional abuse is so much harder to identify, name, and address, and can have such an enormous impact on individuals. It’s not useful or constructive, in my opinion, to scale any kind of abuse as more valid or invalid than the other. That’s why it bugs me that people think there’s this obvious indicator of when one should leave, and that the indicator is any kind of physical violence, including shoving and pushing. As if everything is fine as long as that’s not present.
One more thing…
After years of working in the field, one thing that really stands out to me is how physical abuse seems to be in this special category – like that’s the only kind that matters. In some ways, I think that’s the easiest to deal with, because it’s the most visible, the easiest to name. I think that’s why so many people say that pushing and shoving is where they would draw the line. There is a whole slew of things that happens before the physical violence, and it’s just as valid. The physical violence is a symptom, it’s not the whole problem. Emotional abuse is so much harder to identify, name, and address, and can have such an enormous impact on individuals. It’s not useful or constructive, in my opinion, to scale any kind of abuse as more valid or invalid than the other. That’s why it bugs me that people think there’s this obvious indicator of when one should leave, and that the indicator is any kind of physical violence, including shoving and pushing. As if everything is fine as long as that’s not present.
Respect. I firmly believe its about respect. If both you and the farmer will take time to respect one another, then you’ll find a path to happiness (and interestingness too; I believe you can have both).
Best of luck.
You can make a fresh start. I think you really should, for your sake and for the sake of you kids. First, cut your father out of your life. Your friends will be better family than this abuser. He is toxic, a bad man who gave up any claim to be a part of your life when he did what he did.
Leave the farm, leave the farmer.You are not happy there. Your kids are probably miserable too. Don’t go back to New York, but go somewhere where you can make a new life that is at neither extreme: a city, but a smaller one than New York and one where you can make new memories.
Stop homeschooling your children. Now. Forever. You’re not the person who will teach them what they really need to learn. In order for them to be successful, fully socialized people they need to be in school. Who gives a crap if they’re not getting enough “learning” in the sense of information. We forget that stuff anyways. Get them to read in their spare time is where those gaps can be filled. What they won’t forget (and what they are learning in school) is to interact with other people: learning social skills, learning to be strong. Stop sheltering them. It’s just going to make them weaker and incapable of weathering storms later in life.
Many of us who are writing to you have felt stuck, trapped in a life that is painful. You are freer than you think. We all are. Be brave. Be strong. Leave.
I’ve read this blog fairly consistently for over a year now. I am alternately admiring or shocked/worried that this is the life you are living with your kids, depending on how you slant it. This shows me what a serious manipulator you truly are. I clearly remember a post a year or so ago where you wrote about The Pioneer Woman and how you envied her life/blog. I am very concerned for your mental health-you are an abuser. I’d like to hear from your Mom/Dad/exhusband/business partners, on this. The real reason I and many people read this blog is because it is so titilatious. You are truly out there. There is no telling what sordid, crazy, criminal liberties you’ll take with other peoples or your own reputation. Who can stop you? No one; and and that’s why a lot of us read you!
However, I don’t think this will end well. Good luck to your poor kids.
I don’t think that titilatious is a word. Titillating?
I don’t think that titilatious is a word. Titillating?
I read the last 2 blogs and some of the 500 or so comments.
I wouldn’t call the Farmer abusive. Reading between the lines of your blogs, I perceive that he just doesn’t know how to deal with the emotional abuse you dish out, and he ends up reacting inappropriately.
You get in his face and won’t stop, and you don’t let him get away. He pushes you away and you contrive to fall down. Or he backs you into a corner and gets in your face the way you got in his. He literally does not know how to respond to your misbehavior, and he only makes it worse. Meanwhile you deliberately hurt yourself (breaking a lamp over your own head, for instance) and write a drama-queen blog about how you left the broken glass on the floor.
Your life is already a mess and you are wrecking his and your sons’ lives.
(1) Leave him. You aren’t legally married, and there’s no compelling reason not to. He will have some bad weeks, maybe months, but he’ll be much better off in the end.
(2) Go back to the big city. You are always whining about how the country is an inferior environment anyway.
(3) For their sakes and yours, send your sons to school so they can get away from your craziness for part of the day.
There is never an excuse to be violent towards another person. EVER. No one can push you to be that angry unless you allow yourself permission to cross that line. Touching someone in anger is unacceptable.
That is not true. Some people need a spanking, It’s the only thing that they will understand.
Pushing somebody away is not necessarily violence. Pushing hard enough to cause injury is violence, but defending your own personal space isn’t. Cornering someone and yelling isn’t violence; it’s futile, and it’s counterproductive, but it isn’t violence.
What Brandon said.
“Reading between the lines of your blogs, I perceive that he just
doesn’t know how to deal with the emotional abuse you dish out, and he
ends up reacting inappropriately.”
Reacting inappropriately in this case happens to be physical abuse. Let’s call it what it is.
I read the last 2 blogs and some of the 500 or so comments.
I wouldn’t call the Farmer abusive. Reading between the lines of your blogs, I perceive that he just doesn’t know how to deal with the emotional abuse you dish out, and he ends up reacting inappropriately.
You get in his face and won’t stop, and you don’t let him get away. He pushes you away and you contrive to fall down. Or he backs you into a corner and gets in your face the way you got in his. He literally does not know how to respond to your misbehavior, and he only makes it worse. Meanwhile you deliberately hurt yourself (breaking a lamp over your own head, for instance) and write a drama-queen blog about how you left the broken glass on the floor.
Your life is already a mess and you are wrecking his and your sons’ lives.
(1) Leave him. You aren’t legally married, and there’s no compelling reason not to. He will have some bad weeks, maybe months, but he’ll be much better off in the end.
(2) Go back to the big city. You are always whining about how the country is an inferior environment anyway.
(3) For their sakes and yours, send your sons to school so they can get away from your craziness for part of the day.
Hi Penelope, I wish you all the courage and insight to make the best decision for you. Whatever you truly want. Yes, relationships and situations aren’t so cut and dry, so maybe it’s a good time to take it slow, lie low, and let the answers come to you. Operate from your heart. Connect with your heart in meditation. They say love heals everything. That love’s the answer to everything.
You teach us things from your situations and struggles. And I love the gems you have hidden in your posts, where, if we really hear, can change our lives. Thank you for always caring. Your honesty and vulnerability is truly a lesson and a blessing to behold.
We don’t want you to hurt. Hope you feel better. Who knows, where all this will lead. Sometimes, it’s the beginning of the end of the road of this phase and sometimes, just a bend in the road. Every situation has gold to be mined if we can really humble ourselves and not look from the ego’s viewpoint.
I am glad you have others to talk to and places to live in to should the situation arise. Please stay in touch with your close friends. I hope peace prevails (and is already prevailing). You are a very strong person Penelope is what I feel. Your hubby has seen beauty in you to have made the decision to be with you. Hope you both re-kindle that. And follow your inner calling. If you feel it IS best for you to leave the situation, the person, this phase behind and move on, then you should do so. And only you will know when that time has come. Always know you deserve peace and respect. Every human being deserves that. Leaving or any other decision might not be easy when we aren’t fully ready… but I believe the right time comes. That tipping point.
I wish you and your family all the love and peace. Am not sure if this was too simplistic and unhelpful, but wanted to share my thoughts..
Love you Penelope!
The problem IS that the kids call him dad. Kids will learn how to model their behavior from the same sex parent. The situation needs to change…however you decide to make it change. They are learning from the farmer how to treat the future women in their life.
What do you think they are learning from their mother?
Dear Penelope
Yes, this is a shocking post; not because the Farmer hurt you, or because you have chosen to stay, but because you are honest about it in a way that makes us feel uncomfortable and defies social conventions. In society, it is socially acceptable to openly discuss domestic violence if one aheres to the mantra, YOU MUST LEAVE. Does this acknowledge the struggle that many women go through in trying to determine the best path for themselves and their children…. and for their husband who they probably still love? Unconditional love for a husband who is abusive, or love for the idea of family even when seriously flawed is something that we often feel needs to be hidden. I applaud you for your honesty; even when it means that it makes others very uncomfortable or even hate you.
Penelope, I respect and admire you. Those who are writing about how you are a horrible person might be screaming so loud as to block out their inner voice that is whispering how they are not so very different from you.
Wow, a huge proportion of people who have responded to your domestic violence posts seem to be misogynistic, judgmental assholes.
Just wanted to say that I’m sorry you’re going through this, and good luck with everything.
Penelope, I have been thinking a lot about your problem and worrying for you. I keep thinking that your reluctance to leave the Farmer is related to your “Happy vs. Interesting” choice that you have faced in your life outside the home. I was going through a rough time awhile back and decided to go the therapy. I never would have spent the money to work on my own, but a a mom, I didn’t think I had a choice. It did show.
My problems were work related. I thought I was having trouble coping with some workplace enemies. It took help to realize that my problems stemmed from my interactions with my workplace friends, my defenders. I was abused as a child (more emotionally than anything else) from an extremely demanding father who really was doing the best he could. I knew our family was different, but at the time I thought it was because we were better than everyone else, that our parents loved us more. It wasn’t really abuse, because even though friends and teachers and strangers offered or threatened to call child protective services, no one ever actually called them. See how that works?
I love my father, but I married a man his personality opposite. I thought I’d dodged a bullet, not realizing that I had created a work situation with a supervisor over many years that mirrored that of my childhood – overeager to please, unfailingly loyal, devastated at the thought of failure. It took professional help for me to open my eyes to the fact that this supervisor, far from protecting me, had manipulated me into sacrificing my own career to help his. I thought the problem was our “mutual” enemies. I remember trying to explain to my therapist after many visits who “the bad guys” were in my story, and she kept getting confused and asking questions, and how horrifying it was to me when I realized what had happened. At least an emotionally abusive father was, for better or worse, doing what he thought was best for me.
When I read your happy vs. interesting post, all I could think about was my messed up work situation. I had done what made me happy–relied on the manipulative and domineering older male authority figure–to my detriment. While it didn’t make me “happy” (the opposite), it was comfortable and satisfying. I hated my life, but I knew what to do and where I belonged. The relationship pattern fit so comfortably, I never even felt it. I didn’t see it.
I think that is your problem with the farmer. I think you are doing what feels familiar and satisfying. And it certainly is satisfying. I don’t think anyone ever enjoys breaking a cycle of abuse. I purposefully and specifically married someone with the opposite personality of my father. I could never imagine him doing the things my father did to me with our daughter. And you know what? He drives me CRAZY. When I’m not thinking about it specifically, or when I’m stressed out about other things, I interpret his personality as disengaged. If I’m having a problem and he’s not screaming at me telling me what to do and that I’m stupid for not doing it, I feel like he doesn’t care. And then I take a breath, and remind myself that I married him because he would never do that to me and that really I don’t want him to. And then I thank God for sending him to me, and for letting me love him and letting him love me. He puts up with my occasional insane neediness, and I work on reducing the frequency of the attacks, and we bump along very, very well. We have been together for 14 years now (married 7, I don’t like to rush), but that is because we’ve worked at it. And the rewards have been so, so, so incredible. Definitely worth the work.
But it’s never easy. It’s never flawless, and it never “fits.” It’s always work. He is my guiding light. But in the darkest, quietest nights, I have to consciously keep my thoughts away from a vague dissatisfaction and loneliness. I know that there’s no one else for me, so there is no point in dwelling on anything other than what I have. But his puzzle piece doesn’t interlock exactly with mine. I’ve got voids that he can never fill. But the person who could fill in those holes is not someone I would want to know. Certainly it’s not someone who is good for me. I think everyone who is abused will have those voids. But I think that people who break the cycle do so because they able live with the voids.
To build an interesting life on a swiss-cheese foundation is challenging. And I think a lot of people can’t do it. But it’s more interesting and better and more interesting than repeating the same sad pattern of satisfying misery.
This is it, exactly. This is what the people on here who never experienced abuse early in their life from a loved one will never understand, and the people who have understand all too well.
You look for what you know. You’re going to have those voids, as you so eloquently put it, that need to be filled by what you logically know is bad behavior. It feels, despite all the knowing-better in the world, that you need it. This is why cycles are practically genetic- and why it is so hard to break the pattern in your own life.
I think the only way you get to go free is to settle for what is always going to feel a little off to you. You settle for something that feels imperfect and not right and tenuous and slightly frightening. I don’t know that enough time will make the off-ness go away. Maybe you just accept that healthy will always feel a little wrong.
But it’s a damn sight better than repeating the cycle.
I think Penelope thinks this is all very interesting, and she’d rather be interesting than boring. It’s a bad situation because do you really want your kids growing up thinking they’d rather be interesting than boring?
Interesting seems to involve moving every five minutes, being obsessed with being smarter than everyone around you because everyone around you is more emotionally competent than you are, lying through your teeth about half the time, and getting people to hit you with farm machinery. This is not a good interesting to grow up preferring.
It’s obvious why Penelope prefers it. And it’s obvious how she can change to make life better for herself and her kids. And it’s obvious she doesn’t want to.
Hi Penelope, I’ve never experienced what you have, but one of your posts really resonated with me recently where you talked about motivation and ‘if…then’ statements. Maybe you need an ‘if…then’ statement for yourself?
This isn’t advice on what you should do as only you can make those kinds of decisions. I hope that your counselling is helping you both, and you get the support you all need.
With compassion
L.
PT wrote on this blog 1/6/10 “But here's the farmer's dilemma: He is fascinated with the idea of living an honest life. And he loves watching me do it, but he's horrified to realize that there are a million versions of every story, and the person with the big blog audience gets extra weight for her story.”
For insight on how PT thinks: 1/6/10 this blog——-“Do you read The Pioneer Woman? I love her blog. I love her blog so much that I told my designer he should make me her blog.
He said, “You don't want her blog. It's huge. It probably takes five full-time people to run that blog.”
I said, “No. I do want her blog.”
He said, “I think you want her life.”
The Pioneer Woman does have a great life. Every guy in the photos on that blog is on a horse or about to get on a horse, and all the men are hot. Their rear ends poke out of chaps. Everywhere. And their tough, gritty faces suggest they'd ravish me in bed.
Sure I want that blog, and that life.
I also love how that The Pioneer Woman never, never never disrespects her guy. The Marlboro Man. That's his name. He's always studly, sexy, kind, fun.
The farmer is that, too, but there are issues. He's not studly when we're having a fight. The problem is that I'm drawn to writing about the fights, and the Pioneer Woman is drawn to writing about pies, and feeding the Marlboro Man.
I am a great cook. But this is not the sort of thing that would go over well on this blog. I'm the kind of cook that understands principles of food so I don't ever use a recipe. But I'm not drawn to tell you how to make pot roast perfectly as a precursor to cowboy sex. I'm more drawn to tell you that I experimented with fruit in stew and accidentally used bad wine, and to fix it I laced it with brown sugar. And it's not just that the farmer wouldn't eat it, but neither would the farm cats, who will eat almost anything in winter.
I want to put a recipe of that. The worst stew ever. With grass-finished beef, of course. Because the farmer gets a full cow butchered and then stores it in his freezer. And before he knew me he used to turn everything into microwaved hamburger, but now he brings me gifts of frozen cuts of grass-finished beef that I defrost over days and turn into dinners to wow him.
The secret, really, to amazing cooking with beef is to spend a lot of money on ingredients and then do almost nothing to them. The farmer did not know this until he was with a city girl who will spend $5.00 on a bag of spinach.
4. Try to look at the positive side of things; people like optimists.I digress. Sort of. Not really, though. Because what I'm telling you is that what would be perfect is if I could be the Pioneer Woman and only tell you good things about me and the farmer.
But what about that she's living on a family-owned ranch that is a business, and surely, she had to sign a prenup? Surely her in-laws are nuts over the possibility that their son gets run over by a stampede and she inherits his part of the ranch and marries a different guy with a tight ass in flowing chaps and gives her share of the ranch to him?
What about that? Was there discussion?
Is there discussion over that she has so much traffic on her blog that surely she earns more money than the Marlboro Man? This is not easy stuff to deal with. But there is nothing about that.
Unfortunately, for me, the world loves reading the Pioneer Woman. And so do I. She's upbeat and her site is gorgeous, and no kidding: the minute the farmer broke off my engagement I started thinking there's gotta be a guy on her ranch who's right for me.
But I am drawn to write about only the hard things.”
Penelope, you say that being honest is a top priority.
But your stark (brazen?) honesty is also a need, even a compulsion, that you have.
Others (like the Farmer perhaps?) value putting their heads down and thinking about it, and
working it through BEFORE they can analyze it with words.
You, you are different. Maybe it is a part of being an Aspie, or just being as smart as you are, and gifted with words.
No excuses.
You are now with a partner who has a different style than yours. You cannot force him to talk/analyze as much as you would like, as much as you DO.
Go ahead. Say what you need to say. Hope for eye contact, but don’t hope for him to match your degree of verbal analysis. Hope for him to get back to you after he has had time to think about things.
You can tell him what you need, but you cannot force him to give it to you. He is loving you by his own definition of love, not your definition. That is the way it is for all of us who are in intimate relationships.
It is a sad day if/when he is not loving you (and you are not loving him) at all. Hope that it has not gotten this far, or if it has, that you can resurrect the loving.
The fights and mutual abuse are symptoms–only that. If these symptoms point to a real loss of love, then, indeed, you should mutually call it off before something really bad happens.
Go. Please go, Penelope.
Leaving, one simple 2 syllable word that is bigger than Mt. Everest. You know that if you typed in “staying for the children” and read peoples blogs you would become infuriated with their nonsense, but that isn’t the point. The reality is that you love the farmer and your kids love the farmer and love even more the idea of being a family. I didn’t grow up in an abusive household and I don’t have an abusive lover but I am still stubborn, passive aggressive and can withhold with the best of them. Being afraid that you have failed in your marriage is not a reason to stay married. If you and the farmer are pushing each other into ugly places you never wanted to see of yourselves and you are both becoming people you despise (not that you would admit this to each other because it is easier to blame the other person) then that is where you start. That is what you work on. Stop pushing yourself to be that person you hate, even thought it feels good for a moment to leave the meat out of dinner on purpose. By putting it in, you are not giving in, you are not showing that you love him, you are showing yourself that there are bigger obstacles to overcome for you. That you don’t need to create petty arguments with yourself, you need to write a list (people love lists remember) of all the feelings you have right now, all of the restrictions and separate it out what is yours and what is his. Work on your “stuff.” At some point if he doesn’t work on his “stuff” you will be leaving, leaving him in the dust.
In regards to being pushed, shoved, emotionally abused or otherwise, you don’t want your children to ever think that is ok and I haven’t read all of the comments but I am sure that is what most of them should say if they don’t. But that is the part that makes sense to you. It is how you get to that point that is the difficult part. It is how they see you come out of this that will truly form who they are as men.
Pen,
If you had three quarter of a million page views, then the many people reading your business blog are such regular readers they are invested, and are so invested that they were moved to comment and tell other people who looked, and are so invested that they returned multiple times to the page because they couldn’t look away. That investment in you takes nothing away from your business acumen. But really, when you put your life out there, are you really so entrenched in your magic land that you think people will ignore the personal and focus on what you say about resume writing?
I stayed for years thinking I couldn’t do the parenting thing alone. Guess what? I can. It’s hard, but I found over time that with all the static of worrying about When will it happen again? and How damaged is my kid? and What if someone finds out? and Another relationship failure?, I was worn out. So when I actually left and got sorted, it was easier in some way. Some things you do know: that typically when it gets to twice a week therapy, it’s already over; there are few bad people, but lots of adult bad combinations; having someone to fight with is still having someone.
Think about this: Take care of yourself, take care of your boys, get out, and take care your business. Best of luck. Be glad you have a bolt hole.
I wish I had the magic words to convince you to do what you think is right. Based on what I’ve read, you want to protect you sons. Honorable indeed. But as you found out they already know, they are being effected by the current situation. So the question is…you want to protect them from what? Growing up in an unhealthy relationship? Kids only know what they see…..is that what you want your sons to know? I don’t think so. Your too good a Mom for that. You are too good a person for that.
I read you blog not because I need career advice, but because I like you and what you stand for. We r here for you and want to see you move forward with your sons. So what if you raise them alone. Better to raise emotionally healthy boys than to let them grow up and continue the cycle.
I like the “30-day trial” idea. I think you do to.
Therapy is great. Even when it seems like nothing is happening you are changing. I was surprised how much it helped me deal with my emotions constructively. It is good you are not in denial anymore about your problems with the farmer.
Instead of putting so much emphasis on what you will do in case the farmer shoves you again, i think you’d be very well served to figure out how you will change the role you have previously played in escalating arguments to that level of intensity.
Whether you leave him or not, wherever you go, there you are. So your focus really needs to be on you.
Look lady, grow some self esteem along with your vegetables and get your ass out.
Penelope, I just caught up with your blog and don’t have time to read all the comments, but I’d like to offer you my support for whatever you decide to do with your life by sharing my story. Will that help you feel better–to realize that you aren’t alone in your struggles?
Over Labor Day weekend I got punched in the face and head about 8 times by someone I didn’t think would ever be violent (even though everyone I know had warned me to be afraid). Two black eyes and some bumps on the head. I had to be convinced to go to court for a restraining order, mostly for myself so I wouldn’t forgive and forget and go back. As someone who’s been attacked at gun point by a stranger, I agree with your statement that domestic violence is more difficult to respond to than regular violence.
I was married for a long time to someone who was angry and sometimes verbally abusive but mostly not violent (he broke furniture and probably pushed me one time in the 27 years we were together, as we were heading toward divorce). I’d hoped to show through a new person that I wasn’t the bad mother, wife, woman he’d said I was, but ended up in an even worse situation.
To me, the desire and experience of intimacy is fraught with extremes of love and loathing. I want recognition of my shadow self–so I reveal it to those I’m most intimate with. But I also want love and admiration to outweigh what ever human badness I reveal. “Here I am covered in shit and useless, please love me.” Finding someone who will witness one’s true self and not coddle or enable it, but respond actively without abuse is a huge challenge. Your blogging shows that you aren’t the type to settle for surface level polite co-existence and also that you can be difficult to co-exist with and you know it.
I’m not one for hard and fast rules or labels. The conventional wisdom seems to be that anytime a man uses physical force against a woman he is a batterer and she is a victim. I’m not sure that model is useful, but I see through my sons that when people fight often it is hard for the person with the physical advantage not to ever use it. So if someone is actively engaged with you in a negative way and they have more power and strength, you are going to lose, unless there is a referee around to enforce some rules.
I’ve been told that my problem is that I always want to win. I probably choose to play high stakes games with the odds stacked against me because I’m attracted to a big payoff. I can see some of this in you, but might just be projecting.