I hate David Dellifield. The one from Ada, Ohio.
This past week was Spring Break and toward the end, somehow my ex and my nanny fell out of the picture, and I was doing a lot of taking care of the kids, which, I have said before, is not what I’m great at. I wish I were. I tried for four years to be a stay-at-home mom, only to discover that I am not meant to do that.
So, in a moment of innocent desperation, I wrote on Twitter: “No school today and the nanny’s on vacation. A whole day with the kids gets so boring: all intergalactic battles and no intellectual banter.”
I almost didn’t post that Twitter because it’s so banal.
But, in just seconds, because that’s how Twitter works, there was a firestorm of men telling me that I’m a bad mom. Really. Yes.
Here’s one from David Dellifield:
“@penelopetrunk sorry your kids are a burden, send them to OH, we’ll enjoy them for who they are”
I couldn’t believe it. It’s one thing to be a total asshole to me on, say, Yahoo Finance, where someone used to spend a good portion of each day making sure that the C word did not appear in the comments for either Suze Orman’s column or mine. (The best days were when the C word appeared in a way that linked us. Really, those were some creative commenters on Yahoo Finance.) The difference between Twitter and Yahoo is that Twitter is intimate, and real-time, and pointed directly at me, not at the editorial board of Yahoo.
Like many people who are total assholes online, David’s contact info was easy to find. I called him at work, because, big surprise, he is not a stay-at-home dad talking about how everyone should love parenting. He is a dad who is not home all day talking about how everyone should love being home all day with their kids.
There was no answer at his work. But I noted the number so I could ruin his life there if I ever felt like he needed to be taught a lesson.
Then I called David Dellifield’s house. I thought maybe his wife would answer and I could ask her if she knows that her husband is emailing other women to encourage them to send more kids to his wife to take care of. All day.
There was no answer. Maybe by then he had alerted his wife that he is being pursued by a psycho who maybe will kill her kids or maybe will kill him. Maybe they will never answer their phone again.
So I wrote to David — a “direct message” in Twitter terminology: “I’m surprised by what you wrote. Are you intentionally being mean to me in a public forum?”
He wrote back: “no, but it seemed you were complaining about your children on an open forum, kids have faults, lets love for who they are”
So here’s the problem: Parents need to be able to say that parenting is not fun. The day-in and day-out of parenting is very, very difficult. This is not even news. There is a reason for the reams of research showing that having kids does not make people happier.
Daniel Gilbert, psychologist at Harvard, writes in Time magazine that we trick ourselves into thinking kids make us happy.
Nattavudh Powdthavee, an economist at the University of York, published research in The Psychologist, that concludes, “Social scientists have found almost zero association between having children and happiness.”
Scott Stanley, a psychologist at University of Denver, reveals research that shows that marriages are much happier before the couple has children.
So first of all, anyone who says that parenting makes them happy is probably lying. Just statistically speaking. But also, we know the people who are well positioned to like parenting. There are sixteen personality types, and only a handful are perfectly tuned for staying home with kids.
People can have competing feelings. For example, I love my job but I hate getting up and going to work every day. Or, I love this blog but I often have to force myself to sit down and write a post.
Competing feelings happen to healthy people everywhere. St. Augustine called this dualism; mommy bloggers call it reality.
It’s a big deal that women are writing publicly, in real time, about how difficult it is to stay home with kids. Look, I get emails every day from women who left the workforce for kids and feel lost. Here’s the blog of a woman who wrote to me two days ago: The Reluctantly Frustrated Stay-at-Home Mom.
These women feel lost because you can love your kids and still be bored. Kids are not nonstop fun. Talking with young children is stultifying. Yes, they are funny. But in general, you have to pay attention to them every second, even though they are not really doing something every second.
And as soon as your mind wanders too far, something bad happens. For example, I took the kids on a hike yesterday, taking a coat for myself but not for them. Because I checked out. Because I wanted to think about things that are more interesting than coats. This is normal behavior. I mean, intellectuals need intellectual stimulation, and that’s not something kids give.
This does not mean I don’t love my kids. Only an asshole would suggest that because I don’t want to stay home with them all day, I must not love them.
And all you people who say you’d love to stay home all day with your kids if you could, you are completely full of shit.
I know because I was living at the poverty line in NYC while I stayed home with my kids. That’s how important it was to me to stay home. I wanted to be with them for every moment, be a great mom, all that. So I did it no matter what — no financial situation could have stopped me.
And if you really wanted to be home with your kids all day, you’d do it. David: That means you, too. But, newsflash: going to work is 10,000 times easier than staying with kids all day. Yes, I know, staying with kids is more important. I agree. So is saving children from starvation in Malawi. But we each do what we can. And the best of us are honest about it.
For all you guys who Twittered back to me that I’m a bad mom and that I should love being home with my kids, here’s a link for you: CEOs who are on Twitter. Because let me tell you something: None of these people needs to earn the money they are earning. They have enough money. They can stay home with their kids. But instead, they are at work.
David, can you publicly ask each of these guys if they want to send their kids to your wife in Ohio? Because each of these guys is choosing to go to work instead of stay home with their kids. Do you know why? BECAUSE THE CEOs THINK KIDS ARE BORING. This is not news. The top 10% of the tax bracket system does not need to leave their families to go to work every day. But they do. Why is that?
Here’s another idea, David. How about approaching all those guys with Blackberries at soccer games? Let me ask you something. Do those guys check their email when they’re getting a blow job? Of course not. Do you know why? Because it’s INTERESTING. They are checking their blackberries during soccer because soccer is boring. The kids can’t figure out where the goal is. The kids and their parents lose interest. They want snacks more than they want to learn soccer. They are cute, yes. But even cute gets boring.
Here’s another Twitter from David Dellifield: “been on twitter several months, still trying to figure out the conversation part of it”
@DavidDellifield Maybe you don’t understand the conversation because you have so little self-knowledge to add to the party.
Your comments about how parenting is not a non-stop delight are accurate and many parents seem to refuse to admit that. The snarpy tweet response to your tweet was lazy and too easy. But it was done in that sort of anonymous manner of the Internet; Twitter just has that way of making it seem more personal. The fact that you actually called him and his wife? Ewwwwwwwwwwww. That is beyond creepy and an overreaction of a high order. Respond in kind – calling someone’s phone is not responding in kind.
To the stay at home moms out there defending PT’s post.
PT is NOT the knightess in shinning armour who is the only one who dares to say what many think.
She is not a SAHM revolting against her station in life.
She is the crazy who lost her sh*t when someone dared to comment on her complaining about spending one day without the nanny.
What would you have said if she was a man complaining about spending one day with the kids without the nanny?
None of this dialogue is achieving much of anything, aside from providing Penelope with the attention she obviously craves and/or needs. Which is fine. Whatever floats her boat. Here, have some more. Either way it’ll never be enough.
The amount of cowardice on display is staggering, both from Penelope herself and some of the dittoheads: people who are going to act like online vigilantes and talk big (excuse me–TYPE big) on a blog, and feel very righteous and self-satisfied are essentially useless. Newsflash: nobody cares.
Go out into the REAL world and settle your scores there, not by abusing your online power and indirectly getting others to do it for you. Abraham Lincoln said something very wise once: he pointed out that if you wanted to test someone’s character, give them power. It will reveal far more than adversity ever will. Penelope has “power” through a large blog following. She abused it. David, who I still think is an asshole, just pushed the button that got her to reveal what an asshole she is too.
You people don’t seriously think she actually called him?
God, you’re gullible. That’s why all these bloggers are making money off you.
I love my girls more than my own life and openly admit that I want to kill myself when a “tea party” lasts more than about five minutes.
Raising kids, much less staying with them 24/7, is hard work, and they drive us batty sometimes. Ok, most of the time.
And we’d never trade them for anything.
I agree that parenting is difficult and it is really, really, really boring sometimes. It’s too much of standing around or reading the same 100 word book over and over and over again. We can look at it from the kids’ perspective too, can’t we? It’s hard to grow up, to turn from what one previous commentator called “barbarians” to civilized human beings. Imagine being two years old and trying to zip up your coat all by yourself and not being coordinated enough yet to do it? I’d act like a little tyrant too just out of sheer frustration!
I’ve done both – worked full-time with small kids, ran a business out of our home and now I don’t “work” at all. There’s no perfect combination. People make their choices based upon what’s best for them and their families and it shouldn’t be anyone else’s business. Unless – you put it out there in public and that’s always going to invite some jerk to criticize. Rise above it, Penelope, and ignore him. I never knew who this guy was until you called attention to him. The best thing you can do, in my opinion, is not talk about him at all. He sounds like he’s not worth the effort.
Penelope:
I wouldn’t say “rock on” for calling David’s home or work. Your rage got the best of you.
BUT your rage is understandable. And I have much compassion for you, even if I don’t have kids myself.
Building a business places TREMENDOUS pressure on an entrepreneur. I’ve put tons of sweat and mental equity building a business and it failed. The stresses of building a business that hasn’t fully blossomed or is low on capital is truly trying both physically and mentally. But, like you said in this post, juggling a business that is low on capital is not as difficult as raising a child. But you place the two together and its pressure x 100.
Bear with me as I veer off track for a moment: I recently got a puppy. Yesterday I had one the toughest days. Puppy pissing here. Clean up. Pissing there. Clean up. Pissing yet again. Clean up. Ripping up puppy pad. Replace. I yelled like I was crazy. And that’s just a puppy! Needless to say, a human child is FAR more complex and so are the challenges. That said, I have compassion for you. If my other half returned home and I vented and he in turn criticized me for complaining…oh boy. Hell on Earth would have surfaced. I’m not kidding.
You are trying your best to juggle very complicated things. And when you want to vent and someone doesn’t allow you do so, I can understand why your blood pressure would cause your emotions to burst.
It’s never righ to kick someone when he or she is down and so I say hang in there, Penelope. As you know, life doesn’t always head downhill. Your challenges will only intensify your successes. And the successes will come.
It is funny because its true! Gosh I hate people who feel they have a right to tell us what to do as parents! Stating a complaint on the difficulty of working and parenting /working from home /stay at home, is your right. It doesn’t mean you hate your kids or are not taking good care of them. So many men feel the need to tell strong woman how they should parent or live their lives, all the while having their own wives or nannies take care of all the dirty work. I know a few here at my job…
Get a life David (his name alone should have warned you)…
You rock Penelope, keep up the great blogs.
What really bugged me about the guy’s Twitter post was that he implied Penelope should not be allowed to have her kids at all if she expressed a little ambiguity about caring for them. Now THAT was over the top and he deserved everything he got because of it. We moms have enough self-manufactured guilt as it is, we don’t need more if it coming from the likes of the self-righteous Delli-dimbulbs of the world.
P.,
Reading the citations on research regarding this issue, I couldn’t help but think that, forget about the “having kids vs. happiness” issues, how about the “having life vs. happiness” issues? There are no definitive studies showing a link there either, are there?. Well, unless of course you are already dead, then I guess we can assume that you can no longer be happy, at least in living terms.
The other thing I was thinking about is that, the kids who are home with the parents are usually bored silly as well, unless you load up on pals to invite over, so it’s really a two-way street, don’t you think?
That’s the trouble with having kids: once you have them, you’re on, whether you end up liking it or being well-suited for it or not. And the really sad part is, ANYBODY can have kids. There is no screening process there, unlike trying to adopt children.
I think we all want to live up to whatever we think our potential really is, even if we have no idea what that is. So anytime we are locked into a long-term commitment, whether it is by choice, by accident, or whatever, a lot of us are going to have doubts or second thoughts. And if we have doubts or second thoughts, we are probably not going to be contented or at peace with ourselves. We all want to be meeting our own needs, not just those of our kids, and psychological martyrdom games never do the trick. That’s where all the substance abuse type issues come from.
Besides, it’s very risky business trying to develop a career after staying home to raise kids, especially if you waited to have them so at least one parent had developed a career with a sufficiently large income. Good luck trying to get back into the workforce if you’ve been out for several years trying to do the stay-at-home mom thing, especially if you’re(gasp!)over 40.
Relax, you are doing your kids a favor figuring out how to keep a career going and provide them with a home and a living. They are better off than they would be if you were stuck at home with them and miserably unfulfilled all the time. It would really suck, for you and for the kids.
Steve C.
Your brilliant Penelope, there’s no doubt about it. I especially appreciated your point on “competing feelings” and how they “happen to healthy people everywhere. St. Augustine called this dualism; mommy bloggers call it reality.” I experience this everyday as well. We are all full of contradictions.
Statistics are a funny thing though. Yes, they are a true measurement. But, does it really justify it? Have all the factors been included? Sometimes we can only see what we’ve allowed ourselves to see.
Have you ever known something, or made a gut discussion without any real education or statistical support, and been right on? http://tinyurl.com/bs9648 I don’t have any kids but I have tons of friends who do. And, one thing I really enjoy hearing is “Sometimes I can’t believe what comes out of his mouth?” or “he’s only 4, how did he get so smart?” or “What a little shit?” Kids can show us an amazing side of humanity that we tend to forget, or what some of us sometimes never really see.
You are my new hero (I just discovered your blog today (at work)). You are totally right about kids and your reaction is completely justified.
My wife and I both work part time and share child rearing duties. And believe me, going to work is a vacation, a cake walk, a skip in the park compared to taking care of kids. Which of course does not mean I do not love them. I can’t imagine life without my kids. That should go without saying. But child rearing (especially full time) is probably the toughest (and yes, gasp, the dullest) job in the world. Anyone who says what David said knows child rearing only in the abstract.
Dear Penelope: I recommend that you read this post about happiness and children: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/05/opinion/05coontz.html. To sum up, it turns out that if you separate out the parents who really wanted to be parents, from the ones who didn't, it's the ones who were ambivalent (about having kids) who bring down the "happiness quotient," so to speak. "The Cowans found that the average drop in marital satisfaction was almost entirely accounted for by the couples who slid into being parents, disagreed over it or were ambivalent about it. Couples who planned or equally welcomed the conception were likely to maintain or even increase their marital satisfaction after the child was born." So, the folks who really wanted kids, and got them, are happy. The parents who weren't so keen on parenting – are not so happy. There are probably many exceptions to these research findings. But, these findings speak directly to your points. Lumping together folks who really wanted kids, with those who didn’t or were ambivalent, is not good research/science. I hope this clarifies.
Penelope, don’t make this a sexism issue. David called a spade a spade and you went psycho on him because he tugged at that little part of you called guilt.
It seems really…………bizarre that you’d be proud of this e-stalking. This is 18 year old “I just broke up with my boyfriend” behavior. Not the behavior of a mature career woman.
And, you aren’t in our shoes. I’m not in your shoes, I don’t know what your path is like, so don’t pretend to know mine. And don’t assume you can speak for me. Thanks.
Penelope: What I find interesting is that you twice call being with your kids “boring” but you never once say that you also love them.
Sure, your candor is much appreciated. You’re a new hero to those who find many aspects of parenting a real burden, but those people also cycle back to saying and showing how they love their kids. I don’t hear that in your posts.
You say something about competing feelings, but is it possible for some readers to get the impression that you’re ambivalent in the love you have for your kids?
Might that be the source of DD’s patronizing response?
Just found your blog today. Your honesty is refreshing and you are wickedly funny! I have a different take on stay-at-home mommying, http://domesticgoddessing.blogspot.com/, but I agree with you that I have the right temperament for it, and a husband that helps make it happen.
Penelope – I can relate to your post. I love my kids to death, but usually (unless we have some major activities planned) a 3 day weekend is one day too many for all of us. I am the proud father of 3 awesome kids, but it is hard stay home with them sometimes, let alone with my wife who I also love dearly. I just require that separation that my professional pursuits provide. That said, I’m usually really happy to see them when I get back at the end of the day. I’m sure it’s the same with you.
Some of th people who have posted negative comments need to develop a sense of humor or a thicker skin.
Tell em, Penelope. If only we could have as much access to every online ranter who makes things personal.
Penelope,
As a young 20-ish female, I know that part of my life calling is to someday be a mother. I love children, love love children and seem to have an overabundance of patience for them. This love however does not diminish my fear of being able to balance my other life goals and ambitions. I also want to have a successful career. I don’t think that one day goes by for working moms, or stay at home moms, or future moms where they don’t ponder how to bring balance to their lives with families, love and work.
Thanks for the post. If anything comes out of this, I hope David Dellifield goes home to ask his wife if she feels balanced and fulfilled as both a women and as a mother.
I love that there are almost 300 comments on this post.
I love my daughter but, from experience, know that I am not cut out to be a SAHM. I have the deepest admiration for anyone who does the stay at home parent thing. These people amaze me.
@ James – I’m just curious – could you point out some of the liberal BS? I’m just not sure where “liberal” comes into play here.
I think the people who are agreeing with Penelope’s actions IRT David are people who have not been active on the internet for very long.
He made a one-off comment. You are the one who invaded someone’s privacy and are patting yourself on the back for not allowing others to do so as well. And for what? He made you feel guilty. Nothing more.
If his comment didn’t strike some “truth” nerve, it wouldn’t have upset you SO badly. If you don’t feel like what he said had any truth in it, then brush it off. People will continue to be irritating on the internet every single day. I’m sorry Twitter doesn’t have editors to shield you from that, but it’s reality.
I’m assuming this isn’t your first time on the Internet, right? People say things you disagree with all the time. People are snarky and sometimes downright mean. The Internet’s known for that. Your response should have been to ignore him or snark him back. Calling him?! Wow. You’re mad because he said that on Twitter, an “intimate” place, but contacting someone’s job and their wife is okay? Really? His comment was dumb, but it didn’t deserve that response. He disagreed with you. How would you like it if instead of posting that reply to you on Twitter, he called your house and work to tell you? What if he posted it on his website so other people could call and harass you about it?
In the end, it doesn’t matter what your statement was or what he disagreed with, you went overboard and your opinion is overshadowed by this immaturity. I hope he files a police report if you continue this.
From outside the American nutshell I find this whole discussion quite amazing. My feeling is that “I love my kids” as a phrase doesn’t really have any considerable meaning. Basically it seems that Americans love pretty much everything, no matter how they are treating “it” and how “it” feels about it, which of course can cause a lot of confusion if the child doesn’t feel loved but constantly is slapped with this phrase. It would therefore be a good idea to check in with them every now and then and ask whether they feel loved??? If they do, obviously things are fine? I personally don’t believe in science any more when it comes to child rearing, basically science just delivers what those people need to hear who don’t trust their own judgement. I perfectly agree that an intellectual needs an intellectual challenge (although I don’t agree that intellect is per se more valuable than love, patience, presence, body awareness and other "soft skills that have a tendency to be nurturing). It might actually be better, especially for younger kids, that intellectuals find a target elsewhere to direct their intellect to, as frustrated mental energy that is not harnessed through love and body awareness can be quite devastating on children.
And I wonder, why nobody has the “balls” in these “revolutionary circles” to ponder about the question why mothers actually don’t get paid for their work??? Especially in a country where pretty much every body’s and thing’s worth is tied to money? Why does somebody else who takes care of my kids get paid and I don’t? It would make things a lot easier. Nobody had to pretend that they love their career and their kids "to death" at the same time, mothers wouldn’t have to blame the kids for being unhappy, which imo only results from not having an own income, a degrading situation for an adult that puts him or her right back into child-status. Why don’t you post a few more constructive ideas instead of just over-repeating the same stereotypes all the time?
I am a mother, and I *do* think you went overboard. Did David make a shitty comment? Absolutely. That comment was rather assumptive, and designed to make you look as though you don’t appreciate or love your children.
However, you overreacted, big time. It would be one thing to fire off a snarky comment right back at him on Twitter. But to devote such a length blog entry to him? To list his full name and location? To CALL his OFFICE and then his HOME? What the heck were you thinking?
Step back and take a breath, woman. Your reaction was not rational, and it was not justified.
I do not understand the many, many comments from men saying that the attack was “all out of proportion…” This man publically called this woman a bad mother, and said his wife does a better job. It doesn’t get more personal or shaming than that. What would a proportional response have been, really?
And Penelope was “asking for it” by tweeting a random comment about not loving every possible second with her children? That’s ridiculous. It was a personal comment about her personal life, and anyone with any common sense would understand it was not a literal comment about her WHOLE personhood. Yet this man responded by setting up a strawman to attack, and then retreating into, “Don’t be so sensitive.”
He made an inflammatory, personal, and VERY public comment. I think anyone could see that HE was asking for what HE got, and any false outrage about an internet fight is just a backhanded way to object to the content of Penelope’s message here. She doesn’t have to be what you want her to be, and she won’t. Deal. THAT’S “being a grown up.”
“This man publically called this woman a bad mother, and said his wife does a better job. It doesn’t get more personal or shaming than that.”
I don’t know, calling someone’s job and their home is a bit more personal than that, Genius.
Yeah David kids suck and so do you….
Seriously who is this guy kidding. Kids on a good day are sophomoric at best. and at worst utterly stupyfing maybe fun.
Keep up the good work trunk
amoney
I came across your blog from a link on Pooponpeeps.com
Maybe you should send your kids to David in OH, or to your Ex husband full time because lets hope to god someone likes your kids, because you sure as hell don’t.
Wow that was a fun romp until I went and read some of PT’s previous parenting blogs.
And then I suddenly saw her perspective. I suggest we stop throwing stones at her. She’s had it very tough.
PT – I want to say that I’m sorry. You overreacted, but the response you received is also not commesurate with your mistake.
Uhhh…proportional response might be something you’d want to look into, Penelope.
David’s comment? Pure tool. He was showing his ass. Your response? Waaaaaaaaay over the top. You did SAHMs/WAHMs no favors here.
Staying at home IS hard, it IS gross, it IS isolating and frustrating and occasionally makes you want to sit down on the floor and bang your head until you pass out. You’re not a bad person, a monster, a bad mother for feeling that way, or even for articulating it. I’m eyeballs deep in being the WAHM of teenagers, for Dog’s sake. I FEEL you. I love my boys beyond the telling of it, but there are days I wish that duct taping them to their chairs until they’ve turned back into human beings again was an acceptable solution to teenaged drama-llamaing.
But people who don’t do this job all day, every day, often have a romanticized notion of what parenting is, and if they see anyone poking a hole in that, they’re going to get pissy about it. They’re heavily invested in the illusion that they are perfect parents who would never, never, ever say anything negative about this job they chose to do. They’re going to lash out. Launching a full out stalker offensive instead of cheerfully asking if he was willing to pay the shipping?
Come on now. Publishing his name and city, calling his job and his house, threatening to post his phone number? Because he was a tool in 140 characters? Not cool. Disproportionate. And…well, kind of the behavior one expects from a toddler in need of a nap, not a mature parent.
Did you get his permission to turn a private comment into a public scene?
And if he was such a hole why even waste your time trying to change him?
I read your article and read through every comment. I debated if I should post a comment, but I do agree with you 100% that taking care of children is exhausting. I was a work from home mom for 16 months, with some happy days but many unhappy ones. It is difficult to get work done and still be able to entertain a child. I don’t feel bad saying that I needed to find a babysitter, because my child needed attention and I could not provide him with that attention. I see nothing wrong with parents admitting that parenthood is not all smiling family portraits and play dates.
I do not understand your need to post this man’s information online. I can’t even mention how many times someone online made me upset, or made me throw out a bad word. But I’d never display their info in this manner. Just my two cents, but you are 100% correct on the parenting issue.
Wow. Somehow your blog comments made the white supremacist website, stormfront.org. Bizarre!
There are just some people who will take things to the next level. There is no accountability online and if more people took this extra step, I’m sure a lot of people would reconsider their ignorant words.
The comments on this post remind me of the reasons I have a love/hate relationship with most online social mediums. People can be so rude.
A while ago I posted about the frustrations of having a family (http://alicesworld.wordpress.com/2009/03/05/why-4-kids-is-the-new-6-and-5-is-the-new-11/) and I had a girl who reads my blog take THE ENTIRE POST and repost it on her blog. And then telling her friends how sad it was that I feel this way. And I got to read what all her “saddened” friends felt about my unnatural mothering feelings. It was really shocking. And lame. And I didn’t do anything about it.
The fat that you did makes me happy.
You are a complete and total whiny ass psychotic bitch!!!!
Wow get over yourself.
Hi Penelope
I hope you are reading these comments and read this one.
I loved your post.
But the comments – boy, are people ever JUDGEMENTAL and self-righteous.
Everyone needs to stop and think – what gives you the right to judge another?
Why throw stones at Penelope for her choices?
That glass house out there must be getting pretty damn crowded.
If DD chooses to criticise someone publicly, and make his identity available, he’s a grown-up, he can take the consequences. I’m not judging him and I’m not judging PT. People make their choices and as a result, stuff happens.
BUT I will say that as usual, and as you point out PT, there seem to be a lot of people saying they wish they could be at home with their kids but they ‘can’t’.
They all have an ‘excuse’, but when you get right down to it, they don’t want to make the financial (or other) sacrifice.
And hey, I’m not judging you workers. Do what you want. But I don’t BELIEVE you when you say you can’t be at home.
And to you Penelope, I say, don’t let the turkeys get you down.
Cheers.
Well last night over dinner I tried to reiterate this post to my boyfriend. I was so impressed with your argument and was trying to communicate your outrage (along with my own).
We ended up in a massive argument.
He thought it was silly to engage in such a petty issue and dropped the line “Well there’s just some people who choose to engage in stuff like that…”
I pretty much exploded at him and said what about David Dellifield!!? Why isn’t he petty and a prick for choosing to respond in such a childish way to someone’s comment? He clearly showed no understanding of what it’s like to stay at home with children and, worse, he chose to undermine a woman’s love for her children with his ignorance.
So, in the end it was determined that I’m clearly one of the people who will ‘choose to engage in something like that’ and I’m very proud of it.
Thank you for your post. Some people need to have a counterargument made to them. There isn’t anything wrong with that. It’s not engaging in something petty when you felt your values as a mother completely undermined.
M
This is so true. The whole reason I started blogging was to try to reconcile my new life as a mother with my self-image as a career woman. Not easy. And I notice a lot of the mommy bloggers joke about how much drinking they do. NOT a coincidence…
@CAS: BUT I will say that as usual, and as you point out PT, there seem to be a lot of people saying they wish they could be at home with their kids but they ‘can’t’.
They all have an ‘excuse’, but when you get right down to it, they don’t want to make the financial (or other) sacrifice.
I don’t think it is an excuse. It is just a fact that modern society has created a conflict for women between their task as a mother and their wish for self-realization, recognition, appreciation and financial security, because motherhood is not considered to be work deserving compensation. In motherhood the basic conflict of present economy becomes visible, as women are put on the same level with Earth who is not rewarded either although ALL added value ever produced is unthinkable without the “valueless” natural productive forces of the feminine. Instead of addressing this conflict, which is caused by a complete overemphasis on the mental realm to the detriment of other qualities in people and life in general, the “job” of raising kids and even kids themselves are blamed to be “boring” which I think is not acceptable. And it is not even allowed to ask the question, whether the need for constant “excitement” of a special kind might already be a sign of imbalance in the adult? Before blaming others for having “little self-knowledge” it might be good to look how much of it is in one’s own storage? Fact is that kids need different qualities from a caretaker than an intellectual career and they take time and energy from the adult. For women, who have become slaves to their mind, they feel like a burden, yes, and the shift of gears is hard or obviously impossible to make, as can be seen here. When they are confronted with the choice to feed their kids or their car, they choose the car. These women are really better kept at a distance from their kids. I feel this blog is addressing the wrong problem with the wrong solutions. Debilitating.
I think you make very salient points. It is much deeper than kids are boring and parenting isn’t always stimulating. Do you have a blog? You raise points that need much deeper and longer discussion than a comments section.
Hi Penelope,
I am Jamie’s Mom. I wanted to congratulate you for standing up to these idiots who think they can comment anything they want to a person without even knowing who the person is. Who are these people that cowardly leave comments that hurt people. They pass judgement on people, Why? I hope this will stop the jabbing-nabbing-poking-stroking-sucking-the life out of people probing coward-assholes that do this.
My favorite part of this blog is when you called his home to maybe find his wife home and to let her know that her husband was e-mailing women encouraging them to send more kids to her to take care of….ALL DAY! That cracked me up. REALLY… would you have done this? Well maybe you would have, you called his Work!
An excellent way to cut down on judgemental comments from strangers is to not post about your parenting on the internet.
David Dellifield doesn’t have a wife and your investigation to track him down should have found that out.
What was it that he said that was so awful? If you don’t want your kids, he’d take them ???
How is that awful?
You are frightening. To hunt a man down and call his job and home because he offered to take your pain-in-your-ass kids off your hands when it seems that all you want to do is get away from them says that you need some anger management classes or some meds for your phycho tendancies.
A frightening, scary, stalker kind of thing was what you did.
Penelope, you’ve destroyed your credibility in this post. I’ve read your blog for a long time and I’ll be honest, I disagree with you as often as I agree with you. I think you’re a great writer but I don’t like the way you make sweeping generalizations or assume everyone thinks the way you do. But this is a stunning act of hypocrisy- you talk in intimate detail about the people in your life, not always in a positive way. And then you serve up this stunningly vitriolic post in answer to what was admittedly a stupid and insensitive comment on Twitter? I’m sure you received other comments along the same lines and you’ve chosen to target this guy? What a massive overreaction. You’ve shown in the past you think a little outside the square but I don’t want to take career advice from someone who is obviously so mentally unstable.
You’ve lost me.
How can you say that soccer is boring? Come here to Milan and you will see that no one looks at blakcberry when AC Milan or Inter play. Because football (yes, that’s the real name) is exciting. So we are interested in football and kids whereas you american find them boring. It’s not about kids: it’s about YOU.
I have read through a large number of the comments. I am one of those still-rare women who does not have children. A lonely, and couragous, group of us. I do ponder as I read the comments why so few people choose this route. I enjoy children, and I think I’d make a great parent now (at 57), but I didn’t feel that way in my 20s and 30s. Of course you can love your children and be frustated by them. But still– as I watch parents around their kids–and hear their complaints, which I often do, not only on this blog but everywhere–I do wonder why almost everyone chooses to have kids. It takes a great deal of self-reflection and courage to choose otherwise.
Louisa
To date, no parent has never given me a reason why they had kids. Most are reacting to social conditioning. And of course, my hypothesis is that most also suffer from incredible genetic vanity (an old post of mine here: http://tinyurl.com/d9u48l ). Au contraire, those who do not have children always have thought through the issue and decided not to have children. If you would like to read an interesting set of comments, do click through to that link.
I’m a parent. Two boys, ages 12 and almost 11. I’ll tell you why I had children.
I had kids because I WANTED them — and if the husband thing had worked out better, I would have had more. Maybe a dozen. And I was also planning to adopt adopt blind and/or deaf children, as well.
I wanted to be a mother. I love to care for others and meet needs. I wanted to share the world with someone for whom everything was new. There is nothing more wonderful than sharing something with someone to whom it’s a new and amazing experience.
I wanted to give to someone else what my parents gave to me: a chance to learn and grow and experience life with a safe place to come back to, a safe person to discuss with, a wise person who could help me understand and make sense of the world I encountered. Who could help me explore myself: strengths, weakenesses, interests, non-interests.
I had kids so I could pass on what I have learned, about the world, about myself, about other people.
I can appreciate the cheers from the part of the audience that has never seen a Usenet flame war. (Kids these days… :) Watching someone get virtually eviscerated has a certain thrill to it. But I have to agree that this is more embarrassing for Penelope than for David.
This is the kind of thing a good editor should have you sit on for a few days — until you realize it’s better off deleted than posted.
(Unless Penelope knows exactly what she’s doing and is just trolling us. In which case, shame on her.)
God, this post is brilliant. I’m normally against using a blog as a tool for ranting about a personal injustice, but in this case, it inspired something that truly needed to be said. Thank you, thank you, thank you. This kind of shit is why I recommend your blog to people so often.
To the SAHM’s giving virtual high fives to PT — you are being played.
PT went over the line. She probably realizes it, but can’t admit it. So, instead, she is wrapping herself in the very real frustrations that stay at home parents feel, pounding the strawman of people who think parenting is a bed of roses, and thus gaining your sympathy.
There is not shortage of outlets about the “real truth” about parenthood. PT herslef mentioned the mommyblogs. There are entire aisles at the bookstore devoted to the topic. So I’m not sure the personal destruction of DD is necessary collateral damage in order for the “dirty little secret” that parenthood is tough to be spoken. It’s out there.
If you think PT is your friend, then you are in for a rude disappointment. I am quite sure that there will be a post in the next month about how SAHM’s who think they’re happy are lying to themselves, or how those who say they want to be SAHM’s are really covering for the fact that they can’t cut it in the workplace.
One more thought, imagine you, as a SAHM were going away for the weekend with your friends, leaving the kids with your husband. Your husband is so horrified at the thought of spending a single day alone with his kids (which you do every day, that he posts on the internet about how terrible it will be. Someone (somewhat inartfully) calls him on it. When you get home, your husband relays the story of how he hounded this person at home and at work to tell them off, and did everything in his power to publically ruin this person’s life. In the course of his rant, he reveals that he forgot the kids’ jackets (but remembered his own) because he has the type of brain that needs to be occupied with more interesting things than kids’ jackets.
I’m guessing your response would be something other than, “Attaboy!”
THANKS for your honesty! You are SO right on the mark! I do love my 20-something kids more than ever imaginable, but parenting was the hardest thing I’ve ever tried to do in my life. I don’t think I did the best job of it but I did the best I could and tried hard, so I think that’s what’s important. I chose to be a parent — planned the births and have a supportive husband, but it was so not what I really had the skills to do. I always felt out of place in the elementary school classroom, on the soccer field, at the talent shows, never really enjoyed it but did that because the kids appreciated it. Over the past 25 yrs I’ve “had it all” in one sense — worked full time, part time, been a stay at home mom, consulted, worked from home, worked in an office. And I have to say that the most satisfying working environment for me is in an office with engaging colleagues doing work that I felt was/is important. I never got positive feedback as a parent; I get it on my job. And I get paid well! That said, I was home for about a decade because that was what I needed to do at the time for my family. And I don’t regret it. And I’m lucky I could go back to work in my field when I was ready. Basically you have to do what needs to be done at the time and screw peoples’ opinions. Not all of us were cut out to do a great job of parenting, and I feel like really good parents [and how do you define that anyway??] are a great benefit to society. But just because we’re female doesn’t mean we’re great at parenting!
And I ask you, how could Dr. Spock possibly know about raising babies since he was never at home with them full time??? Would you take advice about fixing a car from someone who’d never even driven one let alone worked on one??
AND let me ask that we get rid of this phrase about “work/life balance” because there is no such thing as “balance” between work and life. There is a constant juggle in which balls drop all the time but you just pick them up and keep on tossing. The issue is how you cope with the constant daily work/life imbalance challenges. Do you end up in therapy? On antidepressants? Fine, just do it and survive!
Am reading your book; love the fresh and honest insight!
Cheers,
The Ferret Mom in Madison
I have been a stay-at-home mom, a work-outside-home mom and a work-at-home mom. Each has its pleasures and its challenges, but on the whole, being home with my kids is the most fun and rewarding.
Research shows kids don’t make parents happy? This doesn’t surprise me. The only person who can make you happy is yourself. Barring tragic life circumstances beyond your control, if you choose to be happy, you probably will be, whether you work 60 hours a week or stay home all day with the kids.
The best parenting advice I received from my own mother was to try to raise kids *you* like, whatever that means. I think the dreariness of parenting mostly comes in when high-achieving parents believe they have to raise their children in a certain “proper” way. Usually the “rules” they’ve laid out for themselves are so demanding and dismal, nobody could be content following them unless they were being paid a *lot* to do it.
I have always taken my kids where *I* want to go, taught them what *I* thought was interesting and valuable and arranged our lives around *all* our needs, not only theirs (and particularly not theirs as articulated by some parenting “rulebook”). The only rules I follow are to do my best to keep them safe and reasonably clean (like within the bounds of decent hygiene) and to show that I love them. Beyond that, I do what makes me happy and they come along for the ride.
My kids are far from perfect, but they are two of the most intelligent and interesting people I personally know. Most people I encounter through work are far more boring, truth be told.
I love kids and helped to raise my cousin until she was 5.
Much as I loved her and loved spending time with her, kids under 5 are sometimes boring and frustrating – just like everyone else.
I don’t agree with how vicious the backlash was against David’s stupid and poorly thought out Tweet, but I do agree that it’s OK to admit that spending every moment of your life adoring your kids is pretty stultifying.
It’s funny, if I spent all my time adoring my husband and watching him all the time and always thinking about how precious our love is and other such crap, I’d be accused of setting the feminist movement back 100 years – but admitting that you have interests that don’t always include watching your kids be adorable somehow makes you a monster.
Bleh. Kids are interesting – but everyone is boring sometimes and kids are no exception.
It’s amazing how successfull PT has been in shifting the conversation.
The initial dust-up wasn’t about the difficulty of being with children 24/7, spending all your time with them, and how it might drive one crazy.
It was about the horror of spending one day with one’s children. One. Day.
PT skillfully tapped into the frustration many SAHM’s feel to justify herself. She couldn’t do it if there wasn’t real frustration there, and that so many are apparently willing to celebrate PT’s efforts to personally destroy someone who is guilty of nothing more than a thoughtless comment if it means that someone gives voice to this frustration is troubling.
This post is going down in PT history. One, I’m not a mom so I’m probably not even qualified to have an opinion (according to your haters) but I’ll have one anyway.
Amazing post, P. You never cease to produce content that is opinionated (with back up) and generates discussion. Like one of the first commenters said, you used a little banter to open up a much more sensitive topic: parenting.
I can tell you this, as a woman who has a mother – I love her to peices. Why? Because she wasn’t up my ass all the way growing up. I had a good deal of freedom as a child and teenager, and the open relationship I had with both of my parents has contributed greatly to my independence and drive that I have today.
So keep doin’ what you do. I’m loving it.