But what if you could keep your job and go to grad school part-time, perhaps earning an MPA over five years? Better yet, what if you could do that without borrowing a dime?

Is grad school still a crummy idea?

Say it ain't so!

Since this person mentioned an MBA, it's likely they work in government or non-profit industry. There hiring/promotion practices a drastically different from the private sector. For the most part, salaries are a lot less negotiable and based on how many acronyms you can put after your name. It is highly likely that this person is at a point where an MPA is a must to keep climbing the ladder.

Juliette-
I'd think twice about an MPA under any circumstance. That degree prepares one for an industry [either nonprofit or government] that is slow, inefficient, and unable to create the change that is the reason for their very existence. At best, they are great at putting on band-aids and checking off boxes.

That said, if you want to be in these industries and actually be effective, and you MUST go to grad school, at least get a business degree instead. The world of nonprofit/government world is changing (higher standards, social business, etc.) and could use more intellectually rigorous, creative, efficient thinkers.

I have to respond to Jennifer Lynn's reply. Her broad generalizations of MPA programs, as well as the nonprofit and governmental sectors, lead me to believe she hasn't had personal experience in any of them.

I have an MPA — which I earned part time, over two-and-a-half years, in a well-regarded program, and with zero debt. (I received partial tuition reimbursement from my employer, which is very common. I was also awarded a partial scholarship for academic achievement.) Of those that I am familiar with, MPA programs have management, budgeting and finance courses (as well as specializations in management) similar to those of MBA programs, but designed to address the problems unique to public and nonprofit organizations.

(BTW, Jennifer Lynn, nonprofits can change radically on a dime in my experience. Slowness, inefficiency, and inability to change can often apply to government and agencies that work directly for government, true, although it is not always the case: Just look at the changes that occur to agencies due to new presidential administrations.)

Why did I go for an MPA? I currently work in the public sector, I want to continue working in the public sector, and many jobs explicitly require not only work experience but an MPA.

LOL! A thoroughly dyspeptic take, but I agree with the gist of your concrete economic assessments, if not your conclusions, especially the psychological ones.

I have a PhD in engineering, and now have a well-paid research job, but yes, it is financially just not worth it when you do the math right. Compared to my peers who started working right out of BS, I am way behind financially, both in savings, and in some cases even in paycheck.

But I don't regret it for a moment, because it was my path to growing up. It is only a way to avoid adulthood for those who go to grad school when the world is clearly telling them their path goes through some other lost territory…

And PhDs are a pyramid scheme only if you are married to the idea of a tenure-track job. There's other interesting things to do after, esp. in the sciences/tech. Can't speak for lib arts/humanities. You could be right for those…

Excellent post! I was recently laid off, (still young 27) and one of the options I put on my list was going back to school. However financially it would never work out unless I wanted to accumulate a huge debt, not a personal goal. My husband and I decided reading books, blogs and learning new computer programs with some of my spare time would be a much better investment. I agree that you learn more by doing a job than going to school. In the first year of my job out of college I learned more about my career on the job than in the 5 years I went to school. Graduate school is too high of a risk for my generation. I am already facing a career change after graduating only 5 years ago!

You wrote what I was thinking. Grad school is understandably appealing because, at the very least, it's a plan, but at the most, it's the Bay of Pigs of life decisions.

I'd have to second this comment. Broad, sweeping generalization of the military and its members. I'm assuming Penelope has no practical experience to use in forming her judgements of the military. I'm sure if she actually knew a cross-section of people in the military, she would have a different opinion.

Yes, there are people who enlist in the military to escape a life of poverty. But as a military officer, nobody that I work with fits this pre-concieved notion. Believe it or not, some people like myself actively choose to serve in the military when there are more lucrative fields available to them.

I don't think this article makes a clear enough distinction between a Master's and a PhD's. Master's degrees usually take two years, while PhD's take six. That is a vastly different investment of time and money.

Thanks Penelope. I have emailed the link to this to my parents about 2 seconds after I read this …

I have seen too many people my age miserable in grad school. Inevitably they went thinking it would be just like another four years of college – basically, because they wanted to hit the snooze button the alarm clock of life.

Of course, they found it grad school is more like working a job than being an undergrad, and that if you're not 100% committed to the topic you picked, you will hate it and resent how much time it takes away from the rest of your life.

My advice to anyone is not to go to grad school unless you're like, incredibly passionate about sedimentology or neuroscience or whatever your topic is.

Yeah, you should like, totally only pick something you're passionate about. Like for sure.

Similarly, don't try to dodge a rabbit with nimbleness. It seldom works.

Grad school was the best thing I ever did.

Undergrad teaches you to memorize and move with the herd.

Grad school teaches you to think and defend your ideas.

I don't believe the system is perfect, and grad school is not for everyone, but it is a worthwhile endeavor if you are looking to expand your mind.

Ditto to Andy's point.

For the record, I worked at P's start up for six months and learned more about entrepreneurship from the 10-week MBA class I took in conjunction. You can definitely learn plenty about entrepreneurship from school, and MBA programs in my area have produced a ton of successful and profitable start-ups, ranging from high-tech to chain restaurants. (I live in Chicago)

I also think P's jibe at the military is plain ignorant. But then again, so is most of this article – a (non) degree in English doesn't make you an expert on becoming a doctor, lawyer, or soldier.

Also, none of my friends taking those professional routes are depressed or feel limited in their career options as P says they should be.

I think it's just hard for P to empathize with people who want to build a traditional career, and have the right mindset to do so. I am not one of those people, but I can understand the concept that not everyone has the same preferences as me.

"Specialists like opthamologists have great hours."

I just want to point out the correct spelling for ophthalmologist. I'm a medical editor and that's always one that's tricky to spell.

I think grad school is good for people who want a degree they need. For instance, I'm considering becoming a school psychologist. To do that, I need a master's. My boyfriend wants to become an archivist and he needs a master's to do that. He works at a university and his tuition is totally free (except for the taxes on the tuition, which is a new thing; used to be entirely free). It makes sense for him to be in grad school. He craves stability and wants a job that suits his personality and interests and will allow him to contribute to our future together but he's not a job hopper or a careerist. So, once he's an archivist, he'll probably be one for a long time.

If people are interested in going into healthcare and perhaps becoming a doctor, I recommend looking into nursing or being a physician's assistant. I think that's more sane than being a doctor and the salary and benefits are great. Also, nurses are the ones who truly save you when you're sick. You can survive a bout in the hospital with a lousy doctor (maybe not a surgeon, though) but god help you if your nurse sucks.

Finally, although the military was not an option for me, I agree with Katie that you're mischaracterizing it as a dead end. Of course, during stupid wars, it's bad. Otherwise, it's a great way to travel, earn money and benefits, get reduced housing, get your school paid for. My mother was in the military and got a great, civilian career out of it, no debt and a lifetime of the best insurance carrier ever (USAA). My cousin is in the air force now and just got back from overseas (not Iraq or Afghanistan) where he was doing PR and hobnobbing with famous people and dignataries. Talk about networking.

Just sent in my application for library school. It is required for the majority of library – university/federal/private industry – no matter what your background. I have paraprofessional experience and a Master's in another field but every employer said you must have your MLS.

Great, so no grad school. Fine. But what should we be doing in the recession?

Good luck telling this to the MBAs from top 30 schools that walk out after two years making 90k

Most MBAs maybe want to start a company but instead they join a big company and do quite well.

For the record, I am not an MBA.

I would like to address your comment in regards to the military:
"They limit your future in ways you can’t even imagine, and they are not likely to open the kind of doors you really want."

I have worked shoulder to shoulder with military personnel. Unfortunately, many folks have to do dirty work that is highlighted in the media. I am always saddened by this and encourage anyone joining the services to consider this risk.

I have trained many enlisted people in Army, Navy and Air Force on highly complex technical systems. If a person chooses the correct path and does well on the ASVAB, an individual can exit the service with technical knowledge, a nice scholarship and retirement. In my six years, I have met men and women who program in multiple languages, speak multiple languages, can solder circuit boards in a snap and have real life think on their feet skills. For an individual that has come out of high school with no future but flipping burgers, you cant tell me that the military does not open doors.

If a person completes a four year degree at any university and participates in ROTC plus officer training school, the amount of responsibility a Lieutenant or Captain may have is jarring. Imagine stating that you have managed million dollar plus programs from the government side and you are under 30.

Leadership = yes (especially with a degree)
Technical Experience = yes
Worldly experience = yes

Both my husband and I had successful early careers without even earning our bachelor's degrees (we both did have four years of college, though). Then, somewhere in our late 30s and early 40s, we hit a wall. Not having undergraduate degrees prevented us both from doing what we wanted; in his case, taking graduate level courses on historic preservation, in mine, teaching writing. We both finished our undergraduate work and got our degrees. Then I found that not even the local community college would consider letting me do a writing workshop without a graduate degree, despite my having nearly 20 years' experience as a professional writer who had published nonfiction, fiction and poetry. Now I am finishing up an M Ed with a teaching writing concentration. Will it allow me to become a full-time professor some day? Absolutely not. But it will let me teach a workshop or a class part-time on an adjunct level.

Was it worth it? Maybe. I would never have done it if I had to pay for it, but I work for a university and don't have to pay tuition. Recently, I checked the salaries for full-time professors in my university and I make more as a non-professor with a BA than many of them do with PhDs. There is absolutely NO incentive for me to get a terminal degree.

And back when I was in the business world, the more degrees a person had, the more useless they generally were.

And yet, I can counter each of these points with an example of someone who bucked your system.

I think the gist of your article makes sense, for those who are satisfied with ordinary. It also makes sense for those who need ROI on everything they do. Thankfully, I'm neither. I went to grad school for the sheer joy of it. What else is life for?

There is a deeper point you are almost touching, but you aren't quite there. I hope you get to it, because I would love to see you write about it.

Of course a masters in English is nearly worthless, in terms of employability. But so is a bachelors in English, history, women's studies, music, and all those other liberal arts. Yet you seem to have no problem with the latter. Apparently it's okay to waste four years of time and tuition wandering aimlessly, but not two more after that. I guess ya gotta draw the line somewhere.

I disagree, Dan. My M.A. in history got me a job. I might have gotten it without the M.A., but I probably would have started at a lower pay level, and my peers would have felt differently. I saw this in action.

In my opinion and experience, people who can't figure out what to do with a subject area degree are focused too much on the subject area–and even then, they're not thinking creatively about how to use that specific knowledge.

I disagree with your comments about bachelors degrees in those fields being worthless. I have studied at the bachelor's and master's level (both in music) and have been able to enjoy a very successful start to my career. Granted, to be a performer or artist requires no schooling at all, but having those degrees has helped me round out my career in music by giving me more avenues to teach, do creative work, and has given me a better understanding of the type of life I will lead through music.

Personally, I think college allows you to gain skills, not experience. The real world is where we put our skills to the test.

I think any degrees are worthwhile pursuits. You just need to be more creative about how you use them. And you can use academic credentials to get jobs in more 'traditional' sectors.

Find a way to combine your work with your school. And network the hell out of yourself.

I'd like to echo what several posters have said about the military as a career choice. I had an intern in ROTC working for me at one point and the difference between when he left for basic and when he came back to visit was like it was two different people. The downside – being shot or blown up – is pronounced and perhaps that is what you were referring to, but assuming survival, who wouldn't want a veteran on staff if they had a choice? You already know you're getting an employee who is disciplined, brave beyond conventional definitions and knows how to work in a hierarchy in the most challenging conditions imaginable. And that's before you consider the specific training imparted.

thank you thank you thank you. i took the GMAT, got recommendations, and wrote essays for multiple MBA programs, but at the last minute i decided not to hit the submit button. thank you for confirming that i made the right decision.

this is appalling advice. Are you serious?

LMAO! Short, direct. I couldn't agree more!

I went to grad school part time (MPA). Paid cash. And I'm really glad I did.

I partied my way through undergrad, so grad school gave me an opportunity to be a student when I was in my late 20s and my head was out of my butt. But I also learned A LOT about leadership and management that I wasn't learning at my job. I also learned to be a more critical thinker. And I believe it has helped my career, because I work for an organization where all of us in management have graduate degrees – and I have to do many many presentations for people working in higher ed, who usually have graduate degrees.

I do, agree, that grad school is not a panacea for workplace angst. I think if you go back to school, it needs to be for the sake of learning. If you're only going because you think it'll get you more money, then I agree with Penelope – don't go.

This describes perfectly what my husband and I have experienced. He graduated with a PhD in physics from one of the best programs in the country.

After graduation, he was able to find 2 part-time University lecturing positions within driving distance of our home so that we wouldn't have to move and I could keep my job. His annual salary was less than what I make with a BS, and only $10,000 more per year than his stipend for graduate school. After a year on the fast track to an early heart attack (but not tenure), he left academia to go into IT. His salary more than doubled and his working hours were cut in half. His corporate job involves some teaching as well, which he loves.

He loves physics, he loves teaching, and he doesn't regret going to graduate school, but PhD programs are indeed pyramid schemes.

My brother got a PHD in Toxicology from UC Davis, and now he works for California EPA, making big bucks out the door? In the recession mind you. What are you talking about. Pyramid scheme my ass.

If you know what you want to do, and doing it requires a master's degree, it makes sense to earn that degree. I have never regretted earning my degree, as it opened the doors I needed to pursue my career goals. (Of course, you'll be in trouble if you "know" you want to be a lawyer and realize after 3 years of law school and lots of debt that you actually don't want to practice law.)

Going to school in a recession because you can't find a job and school gives you a "plan" for the next few years, on the other hand, is a bad idea.

Job seekers would be much better off investing in a coach and resume professional to ensure that they are well prepared to confront a competitive job market. As a career coach, I work with many job seekers who have thrown up their hands in desperation because they can't find a job. One look at their resumes usually tells me why. A transformed resume and a bit of coaching can make a world of difference. Plus, it's a lot cheaper than grad school and much less work!

As a student in law school right now, I just can't swallow the argument here. I think that the piece is a great way to test your desire to go, but not the be all end all decision-maker.

Look the career market is crazy and different for everyone there are thousands of ways to find your path none of which is the "yellow-brick road." And, yes, graduate school is hard, it has to be hard because the world is full of tough questions and hard decisions.

If your looking to start your nest-egg maybe grad school is not so conducive to your goal. However, if you are looking to become a professional grad school is your path. The cost of your education is as a professor once told me "good debt" because it is an investment in your future. And if you do well in grad school, which is not hard if your motivations are right, jobs are not hard to get.

Look, not everyone needs to go to grad school to be successful, which should be the take home from what Pen is saying, but you do need to set your priorities and decide what you want. Grad school is competitive, and at times nasty, but that's how some people thrive. It forces your to either develop and take the reigns and get what you want out of life. If you think that you better benefit from lateraling careers gaining skills that way, fine, it saves money and builds skills but its not the best answer for us all.

I was faced with the decision to go to law school two years ago and I grabbed it. Yes, it was scary, hard, made me hate myself, my professors, my peers, and sometimes life. However, it has given me the ability to see change, network, understand a very wide range of issues, stand tall, defend my ideas, work for change, and maybe along the way earn me a publication. Oh, I also got a job (even an offer from Pen). The meat of it all is finding yourself, who you are and then selling yourself, and you can't sell yourself if you don't know yourself.

For me grad school was the ticket to self realization. Something that was not going to come from job jumping gaining experience, I tried it. I needed to be forced to ask and answer hard questions, and if you are stubborn like me give grad school a second thought. Because it is really just what you make of it.

A degree is like a drivers license, it proves that you have learned to drive, it doesn't prove you are a good driver.

I like the advice…don't try to escape the recession by going to grad school. Straightforward. Grad school is not always the answer and will not always increase your compensation or give you direction in life. Great post.

Of course, there are some folks who want a career in hard scientific research and the only way to get into the field is a PhD. Recession or not, they follow their dream.

I loved this post. Think hard about what you are doing with your future, and especially what you are doing in the "Now." Then you cna realize that educational institutions (and their attendant degree) are just one part of a much bigger equation. A lot of people that jump for post grad programs feel they will be entitled to a great future, but then they meet a harsher reality. Read the woman who was laid off aswt the Wall Street Journal's new "laid off" blog, a woman and former VP at BOFA who lived through this reality very recently, has the M.A. but J.O.B.

end with "no J.O.B." at the moment.

Penelope, be honest, is this a new post? I'm sure you've written this before. You said on Twitter that you wrote something fast at 6am because Ryan censored your post. So did you just take an old post and reformat it? I know you have a lot of new readers, but you have lots of longstanding ones too! The only part that doesn't sound familiar is the French chicken farm – which is, admittedly, a cool story.

And, um, but is Ryan your boyfriend? Because it kinda sounded that way on Twitter.

This is an old conversation.
Grad school does not make a lot of sense as an investment in most cases – but it is still worth it if the person (a) enjoys being a student and doing research and (b) can afford it.

Grad school is a safe heaven if you want a vacation from a career. And the cost of this vacation goes down in recession, if the alternatives are a lower-paying job or being out of work altogether. Still, before taking a grad school vacation, consider if you can afford it.

I think you could have been more clear about the difference between going to grad school because you know exactly what you want to do, and the path to that job leads through grad school, and going to grad school because you are lost.

I have seen people in both circumstances, and the difference is striking. If a person is honest with herself, she knows which category she's in.

I don't completely agree with your comments. Doctors make a LOT OF MONEY. I have cousins, family, friends and more who make quite a bit of money as doctors. Surgeons make 600,000 in the first year after med school!! And even general practitioners make 100 to 200k after med school. Plus having your own practice is more relaxing than many other well paying jobs and pays off really well. I have a lot of friends going to medical school and I have no doubt it's going to pay off well.

I also think 1 year Masters program, especially in the UK, are not too costly and definitely worth it if you're interested in working in the UN or international development. There are a lot of positions in the UN and UNICEF that require you to have a Master's degree in so and so, and it is also not too expensive since it's only a year long.

My dad is a general practitioner who owns his own practice. It is definitely not relaxing. He is extremely stressed out all the time, mostly from dealing with insurance companies. They screw doctors as much (if not more) than they screw patients. He mostly does it because he wants to help his patients, and he doesn't know what else to do. His malpractice (and it's the lowest for GPs, and he's been practicing for 30+ years and has NEVER been sued) is something like 20K – 30K per year. The overhead is just insane.

He's told me if he could do it all over again he would go back and be a PE teacher, or a high school basketball coach.

Most doctors are not surgeons who make 600K, and law school grads aren't all working for top NYC law firms who bill $600 per hour. That's like justifying your 100K MBA from PoDunk University by thinking you can be a CEO who makes $10 million.

I LOVE the "PoDunk" verbiage. I actually read an article about a year ago that more and more doctors are choosing to work for hospitals and do not want to open their own practice b/c of the malpractice costs. Soon the health insurance industry will collapse b/c it doesn't – and hasn't in decades – make any moral or economic sense to charge people outrageous rates for basic health care services and treatment for illnesses such as cancer.

The "doctors make a lot of money" argument is not universal. Where I grew up in the Bay Area and then where I just recently left in NYC, no matter how much money a doctor made, they were usually in financial trouble because of the insane cost of malpractice insurance. Between 1990-2005, my hometown saw a mass exodus of doctors simply because they could not afford to stay and practice. Every six months for three years I got a new letter in the mail from my doctor saying that they couldn't afford to stay in their practice and were retiring/moving away, and that my files had been sent to the doctor they'd arranged to take over their practice… and then six months later I'd get the same letter from the next doctor.

There are very lucrative specialties, but malpractice insurance — like other types of insurance — is often regionally specific, and prices in some parts of the country are prohibitive. And in parts of the country (like the Bay Area or NYC) where the cost of living and doing business starts out being ridiculously high in the first place, adding in huge amounts of malpractice insurance has bankrupted more than a few doctors who never imagined they'd find themselves broke.

I think the military has the same caveat that graduate school does. There are great programs in both places that lead to fantastic opportunities and jobs. But if you go into either lost, with the thought that it's your only good option, it won't go well.

Yes, the armed forces won't leave you in debt. But you often need to have a good recruiter and great test scores (and great credit scores) to get a shot at the plum learning opportunities and advancement. And relatively few get the military experience in the commercials (fighter pilots and warriors and such). And, of course, there is the getting shot at part. Like any big decision, it's a big decision with upsides and downsides.

Penelope, this article reflects the conclusion that I recently came to in planning my career path. I'm a fortune 100 software developer in my 40s. I can get funded to take a part time MBA, but what doors would it open? Wall Street? Wouldn't want that even if if the downturn wasn't a factor. So there's really no point. Better to invest the time in building side businesses and personal brand. I can gather any knowledge that I'm missing on a targeted basis for what I need rather than sitting in front of a scattergun load of random knowledge of questionable relevance.

From my perspective (as an older grad student)I think there were some (bitter)kernals of truth to what P had to say about grad school and Phd's. Particularly in regards to law school.
If we had a stable middle-class society with some sort of reliable safety net in terms of unemployment comp, health insurance, and affordable education, going to grad school would not be such a problematic decision.
However, we have none of the above and one must think very carefully about the debt load of higher education. Having said that, there are certain jobs that won't let you in the door without that masters.
Ultimately, one has to be dead realistic about the job market, current skill sets and potentially acquired skill sets. And then do a cost/benefit analysis.
I did just that analysis before returning to school – and I should disclose that I don't have children and a mortgage to provide for, so that made the decision much easier.

Excellent and timely (for me) post. When I got my M.Ed., I was absolutely passionate about teaching. It did open some doors for me, although they weren't financial ones. Now I've been offered a position in an educational leadership cohort which would give me the opportunity to earn an E.Ed. The thing is, I'm no longer as passionate as I once was, and I'm looking for more options, which as you so aptly pointed out, can be found outside of grad school.

I really needed to read this, THIS week. Thanks.

I agree w/ P up to a point. I've been told that a degree either undergrad or graduate is basically corporate America's "hazing" ritual. It's your entrance ticket to be able to play on their playground.

I'm currently evaluating going back to grad school to get a Masters in social work to become a therapist. I wish there's some other ways around it but without a MSW and getting a license as a LCSW, you basically won't even be let into the ballpark let along the dug out.

So grad school makes sense if the career direction you're going into make you. Other than that stay away from it.

PS: If anybody's got insights on MSW, LCSW or careers in social work I would appreciate some feedback!

I have an MSW and work as a school guidance counselor. Previously I worked as a teacher of high school English and Spanish. I would be glad to share my experiences in grad school with you as well as some general thoughts on what you might do once you complete your MSW if you like. You can contact me at jon.wetzler@bend.k12.or.us.

Penelope, I've been reading your blog for a few years now, and you've said this (or something similar) repeatedly. But I just don't buy it. For some people, yeah, it might not be worth it. But as many have already said, there are some jobs that absolutely require an advanced degree.

As regards an MBA: I just asked my former boss, HR exec at a reputable company with more than 10,000 employees, whether it's still worth it. Her thoughts? That an MBA isn't as impressive as it used to be, but it's still more impressive than not having one. She also mentioned that, if you have a great job, you should stay in it and do night classes, but if you don't, then it's still a good option to dig in and get a Master's in something that's relevant.

I don't believe that your advice on this issue applies as broadly as you seem to think it does. We each need to weigh our options on our own. But I do agree with you in that the cost (both time and money) REALLY needs to be counted before making the commitment.

Penelope,
thanks for the great advice! can I ask how you decided to write this post because all last week I was talking with my girlfriend about if We should go into grad school right after college, especially with the way the economy is. You have given me some good things to think about. thanks again!

Thank you for saying what needs to be said. You don't hafta be in school trying for a piece of paper to learn. You can learn for free… or better yet, get paid to learn. Or conversely, take the $50,000 that you would've spent on grad school and fail at a business. It'll be much more educational.

Dale

For those who want to go into a "profession" grad school is a must. I am grateful that the nurse who was on-call when I had a complicated delivery with my second child had a master's degree in nursing with a speciality in obstetrics. She saved his life. I am grateful for the Dr. who performed my husband's surgery last week – her years in grad school benefitted us immensely. I am also grateful for the employment lawyer that I partner with to serve my clients in my HR consulting practice – her expertise in invaluable to me. She's a fabulous, fun person and if she didn't have her law degree I probably never would have met her and gotten to work with her. Etc., etc. You get the point – if you want to contribute to society in one of these ways, you need the degree.

For the rest of us whose work is more "generalist" in nature – it's possible that whether grad school is valuable or not is entirely up to the indvidual. Taking out excessive loans that you will have trouble paying back for any reason – school, house, car, etc. – is never a good idea and sets you up for stress and unhappiness. But if you can find a reasonable way to pay for grad school grad school (mine was paid for with an employer tuition reimbursement benefit) and it is something you would enjoy, then go for it! The networking, the friendships, and the learning are energizing and can build your career in ways that you might not be able to predict in advance, but if you embrace the experience they will definitely pay off.

That said – you can also have a great career if you don't go to grad school – it really depends on the individual.

Peggy:
Your opinions above about what is and isn't a "profession" demonstrate an extreme bias and borders on ridiculous. I would guess your train of thought on this topic reflects mostly what you were taught in life rather than your having a wide range of experience in differing workplaces. A person does not need a degree to contribute to society or have a "real profession."

Furthermore, careers outside of the Legal and Medical fields are not "generalist" in nature, that is not even close. (Sweeping generalities you chose to write!). No degree? See Michael Dell, Steve Jobs. Then considering the more average "generalist" worker as you state…A person can have an *extremely* specialized job that requires levels of perfection, critical thinking, verbal/written communication; dealing with the C-suite & Wall Street, a deep knowledge of intricate/technical topics (ones many people would take years to understand) and be considered highly successful by his/her colleagues without having a degree. It happens a lot, a lot more than you might think. Maybe it is time to explore outside of the confines of of your prejudice.

Gregcnorca – your comment woefully mischaracterizes both my comment and my intentions – let me see if I can be clearer. First I was in no way implying that the 3 professions I highlighted (nurse, Dr., lawyer) constitute the sum total of jobs that I consider to be “professions” – they were merely examples. Secondly, if you’ve ever read my blog you would know that I would NEVER suggest that only if you are in a profession can you contribute to the world – my beliefs are quite the opposite. My comment above merely states that if you want to contribute in one of the 3 ways I have identified, (nurse, Dr., lawyer) that a graduate degree is required. Of course there are endless ways – paid and unpaid – to make a contribution to the world! And as to the your suggestions that I have not had a wide variety of work experiences, that I don’t do my own thinking, and that I am prejudiced – you are wrong on all three counts. It might be worth slowing down to read what people are actually saying and taking the time to find out facts before making wild accusations. A more productive approach to conversation – in the blogosphere and elsewhere – is to listen/ask questions, and offer your own opinions rather than maligning others. Cheers!

Graduate school is for people who just graduated college and can't find a job and need to defer their student loans a little while longer. The problem is, these people end up borrowing more money for graduate school, and two years later, they'll either have to start a PhD to buy more deferral time or start making loan payments, which will then be higher than they would have been had they not gone to graduate school in the first place. *this* is worse than a pyramid scheme. this is my life. hahahahahahahaha.

I do not have an MBA and I started making 90K right out of college. It's a matter of not settling for any job – oh yeah, and leadership and initiative play a large role too! Stop looking for substantiating documentation (such as degrees) to boost your value. Assign yourself the value you want by building a reputation for yourself and not undermining your own efforts.

It is a known fact that most millionaires do not have advanced degrees. (I am not talking about the millionaire elite but rather the "middle-class" millionaire. What it comes down to is hard work, connections and a passion for what it is you do. With these three ingredients, you can't miss.

I know, I live it.

I loved undergrad, but I worked all the way through (three jobs at a time). After a few years in the workplace, I decided to go back to law school. I thought it could be a way to transition from journalism to a career in environmental law, to expand my mind while focusing on learning without other distractions, and to gain a peer group I didn't get while working 60 hours a week in undergrad.

Wrong on all counts. I went for all the right reasons – I love learning, I needed the specific degree, and I wanted the career.

Unfortunately, law school was NOTHING like undergrad. Administrators were exploitative – job statistics were a lie, and there were TWO full-time employees in the career services office! That's one career counselor for every 100 students. Very few professors paid attention to students. Nothing they were half-heartedly pretending to teach in the classroom was relevant to the actual jobs you get after graduation anyway, but the classes take so much time (often 80 pages of reading a night) that it was next to impossible to gain work experience and contacts. Finally, stressed out people competing to be one of the 10, out of 200 students, who actually get a job in the first year, working against each other in a curved grading system, do NOT make for a fun peer group.

People don't realize that the schools lie about employment statistics and that private student loans don't operate like public student loans. The idea of "only go if you don't have to borrow," is laughable, btw. Do you have $135,000 lying around? (Plus opportunity cost). Anyway, the loans can't be discharged in bankruptcy, there are few rules about exploitative practices, and they compound quarterly if you don't get a high-paying job right away to pay down interest. And even if you do earn $140,000 (Which means you had to have graduated from 10 schools, or you were one of about 10 in your top-50 school), you'll still be paying at least $1,000 a month for about 35 years. Also, you'll likely be laid off from your 80-hour-per-week-minimum job after two years, because law firms weed associates ruthlessly. Only about 8% of all associates go on to become partner. The other 92% slept at the office, endured abusive partners (ranging from weird to scary), and seriously injured their health, for nothing.

Most people won't be in the 10% who get to compete to be the 8% who make partner, anyway. Most people contract (awful, no job security, and no benefits), or tend bar, for about a year until they find an entry-level job. Then, most entry-level jobs pay about $40,000. So that's about half their income going to pay for three years spent teaching themselves con-law and other useless subjects, in the company of totally stressed out assholes they never want to see again.

Thanks for trying to tell people Penelope. I hope at least a few people listen.

Sheesh! Couldn't have said it better myself! I spent 1 semester and 1 day in law school, and cut my losses. My grades were good, but the environment was like working in one of the most abusive workplaces imaginable. One of the deans even suggested I avail myself of the student psych counseling services, because over 60% of the students there use it and say that it helps. Amongst the other 40% were severe drug and alcohol issues (her estimate). Work/life balance is not something to be achieved through the modern (ancient?) law school path. . .

I have two good friends who, within a year of finishing law school, were miserable and looking for any chance they could find to get OUT of practicing law. And a frightening number of their classmates in law school were in the same boat. The only thing that saved one of my friends from being suicidally depressed about it was that he didn't have to rack up huge loans to go (someone else footed the bill). My other friend's tuition was covered by her parents, and so if she bails on law at this point, she (literally) in danger of being disowned.

Hello,

(One more time I'll beg you to excuse my french, because, indeed, I am french.)

I'm OK with you on the major part on this subject.

But, as far I can tell, it seems that you have a diploma yourself and you did go to school. Am I wrong ?

It's pretty easy for people who get a diploma to say that school is useless.

You're right, school will not teach to an entrepreneur to be an entrepreneur BUT it will learn to him how masterize a huge amount of technical tools very useful for an entrepreneur.

What if you have no Business Angel, not a lot of money to spend at the beginning ? You cannot afford Public Relation Agency, Lawyer, Business Plan conception and stuff. You have to do everything by yourself. Yes, you can learn on the field but honestly, it's a gap in your planning. You have to learn everything from the beggining. And most of all, you have to learn some stuff which is not your domain of skills. I know that most of US Business Schools are better than French ones. But I'll speak for French one because I know their program. They study the Work Law, the International Law, company administration, technical book keeping, economics and some language.

So, as a young entrepreneur who have no diploma, I have to learn all these things by myself on the field, make some mistakes due to the lack of technical knowledge and of course, as I'm not a native english speaker, I have to learn Business English all by myself. Where I get the time to manage my own company, heh ?

I had to prepare myself and learn all these things during six months before really launch my company. It's time wasted. Time which was not been wasted if I get to school few years back from now.

All I'm saying is that you are right. School do not learn the "Spirit" of an entrepreneur but technically speaking its help a lot.

I'll take myself as an exemple. As I said, I'm french, 27 years old, without ANY diploma (not even the GED or the High School Diploma). I begun to work very early (around 16). Well , I know that US Recruiters like pretty much the extra-school activities and don't focus on diplomas for entry/middle jobs but in Europe, a lot of recruiters are "old school". I can remember five years ago, when I was looking for a job, I got two excuses from recruiters :

Recruiter 1 : I'm sorry Sir, you are over skilled for this job. We cannot recruit you at an entry level job like this one.

Recruiter 2 : I'm sorry Sir, this is not an entry level job, we cannot recruit you without any diploma.

Well, at this time I thought to change of career. I asked myself : Ok, what I'm good at ? What can I give in exchange of money ?

I found one of my hobbies was valuable and break through a new career where I was hired, good at and finally, launched my own company few months ago from now.

I am a specialized recruiter now, I thing the fact of do not have any diploma helps me to focus on what is important of the job that I have to fullfill with someone. But I will never forget that the school helps a lot to get technical knowledge and I really miss that at the moment.

I don't know if I was really clear on this one. I'm still working on my poor english skill, sorry about that.

I think people who studied what they honestly loved and enjoyed college and grad school are lucky people.

Penelope, I'd love to see you tackle the topic of college in general, in a similar vein as the tv show you were on recently. I think the whole system is flawed. There were some college courses I really enjoyed, some where I would rather have learned the topic by myself out of a book, but overall I did not enjoy college and never felt like I had any guidance in choosing my career path. My main goal in choosing my major was whether I would be readily employable upon graduation. (I was — I chose engineering.)

Going to grad school is like going into the military.
Um, how? In grad school, nobody holds you accountable or responsible. The military requires you to assume a perspective beyond yourself. Nowhere does grad school say, "Honor, courage, commitment," or "Semper fidelis." Nowhere does grad school develop leadership traits or principles as well as practical application of them. Nor does it require servantship or followership. In fact, grad school can be "all about me" and hiding from the adult world.
Applications to the military increase in a bad economy in a disturbingly similar way that applications to graduate school do. For the most part, both alternatives are bad. They limit your future in ways you can’t even imagine, and they are not likely to open the kind of doors you really want.
The military does not limit your future. On the contrary, admission to any of the service academies opens your future to possibilities way beyond the typical grad school. They don't call them "ring knockers" for nothing. It's a prestigious and exclusive club that is comparable only to some of the best Ivy League schools. Quite frankly, I went to grad school on the Navy’s dollar so I could become a nurse practitioner. Instead of limiting my options to staff nurse, I am now a healthcare provider who can augment the general practitioner shortage. I get emails from headhunters every single day.
Military is the terrible escape hatch for poor kids, and grad school is the terrible escape hatch for rich kids.
I grew up in an upper lower-class family. I enlisted in the Marine Corps (mainly because my dad said, "If you're only going in for a few years, then go Marine Corps, not Army. That'll get your foot in the door because employers will be curious about what a Woman Marine looks like." [He was also a former Marine.] I was picked up for a Navy Officer program and I make more money and have more responsibilities than I ever would have if I had stayed in my hometown. I've seen a lot that you've never seen, and with my Top Secret Clearance (SCI), I know that the news they present on TV and other media is often disinformation and misinformation.
Finally, George Orwell said it best: “We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm.” You can't say that about grad school.

I don't know why I commented on Penelope's current topic. I just think Grad School is an answer to some people, and not for others. It all depends on their situations and how they want to utilise it.

Straight after I graduated with two Bachelor degrees – one in Media and one in Linguistic, I found a really good well paying job in one of those well known household names corporation. This is not an entry level job, nor does it has anything to do with my degrees for some reason.

To top things off, I completely love this job. It has its ups and downs but everyday is fun in a nerdy sort of way.

It has nothing to do with languages nor does it has anything much to do with media, my work is mostly physics and maths, maybe more on the mathematical and IT site.

I'm considering of doing a Master in Science so I can perform my job better. I was also hoping this should secure my future since recession is a bleak topic in every giant corporation.

Apparently where I am located, the government is also giving subsidy to eligible students who enroll in this post grad field. This could be good and I hope I'm not going to look back to this entry in the future.

Noririn,

Would you would be willing to e-mail me? I have taken 3rd year science classes but am completing my undergrad in the department of Rhetoric, Writing and Communications (and am getting among the highest grades in the department). I would love to hear what it is you do and your thoughts in general. I am trying to discover how to find a job integrating my love of science with this degree!

ali.alternate.addy@gmail.com

I completely agree with you when it comes to something like going to grad school for an English or Journalism masters degree, or sometimes even an MBA. Professions in the related fields don't require graduate-level education. However, if someone wants to be a doctor, lawyer, or psychologist, grad school isn't optional — you must do it if you want to be in that profession. So I agree that it's throwing away money and time if your desired field doesn't require it, but for those that do, there really isn't an alternative.

My husband and I went to grad school- he because he could not seem to find a job, me because I hated my $8 an hour shit job and was not finding anything else. It seemed like a good idea at the time.

Both my husband and I went to grad school for free in exchange for low paid labor- he as a GA and me as a TA. My husband made contacts in grad school (for engineering) that he would not have made otherwise; he also made more money starting out than he would have otherwise. I am in a job now that required a graduate degree. For these reasons, it worked out for us very well.

HOWEVER, I would NEVER get a grad degree if I had to pay for it. Never. Lots of jobs have tuition reimbursement, there are scholarships, and if you can pinch a penny until it screams and have little or no prior debt, we're living proof you can live on the stipend. Don't pay for grad school!

As someone with a JD and an MBA, I generally agree with the thrust of this article, that graduate schools is overrated and very expensive. I disagree about the military, which is real world experience and is looked upon favorably by employers after one leaves the military.

There are certainly too many lawyers. Finding a job in the field is difficult. Before going to law school, one should work in a law firm to determine if this is a career he/she really wants. It is not a place to "find oneself."

I would pursue the MBA only if I got into as top school, which provides decent odds that the expected salary boost will justify the expense.

While I agree that real world experience is the best teacher, there are certain jobs for which the MBA is required by employers, such as consulting with a top firm or investment banking. Employers get a lot of applicants and use the degree as a means of filtering the pool down to a more manageable number.

Net, graduate school may make sense for some people with a clear sense of what they want to do and who understand the costs and potential benefits. Too many people underestimate the former and overestimate the latter.

In order. I never thought I'd agree with Ms. Trunk about anything but it seems I returned in time.

1. I said for years that grad school, specifically humanities Ph.D. programs, in fact prolong adolescence. I worked in a non-work job (NYC Welfare caseworker) before going back to a graduate program in 1969. I came out in 1976, age 32, Ph.D. in hand, with absolutely no idea how people earned their livings. True, I was a very bad student, but I also had some very bad teachers.
2. I went back to school in '69 for the only valid reason I could think of: I loved literature, research, and teaching, and I wanted to do them in what I mistakenly thought was a civilized atmosphere. Right: a university is civilized. Hang out in the hallway while the personnel committee is deciding who gets tenure and who is cast into the outer darkness. It's not civilized. Learn that a female faculty member slept with one of the committee in order to get tenure. Well, at least the man lived up to his word….
3. My mistake was assuming that the glories of the job market in the Sixties would last forever. They caved in the year after I showed up. Ain't it the way? By the time it was time for me to leave, there was nothing. I finished the degree work only because I am a stubborn and contrary SOB and I (and my then wife) had worked to damned hard for me to get up and walk away.
4. Label this "What I did for love." I did dissertation research with a nonentity, a man with no reputation and therefore no ability to help me get my first job. That is how it's done, you know. First jobs in Academe tend to be a fix rather than awarded on merit. I "hired" my director based on personal affinity, not on what he could do for me. This is remarkably like finding a mentor in a corporation: you don't have to love the man or woman but just understand that he or she can be the key to making your career or causing it to be stillborn.
5. I thought about going to law school in 1993. I was 49. I scored in the middle of the pack on the LSAT: without studying. It ceased to mean much.
6. The doctor I was seeing in New York is getting out of the field. He can't make any money because he gets lousy reimbursement from the insurance companies (I felt almost embarrassed) and is a record-keeper, not a doctor. He's going after an MBA. That might also be a mistake. I don't know.
7. I know people who went to business school. Enough said.
8. I met a cadre of Sweet Young Things who worked as 1st year serfs at Deloitte. They were paid nothing much, were worked in some cases from 6 AM until midnight, but were promised the carrot of insider assistance on the CPA exam. All of them were let go right before I was let go by the Big Bank I was at for six months last year.
9. You can learn from any job. I did. I learned how to deal with difficult people. I was a deli clerk in two supermarkets and a call center abuse-taker for a Internet-based phone company. My face cracked from being accommodating but I learned it anyway. The opposite is not being "honest and true to yourself," it's being a short-tempered confrontational jerk. I saw those guys when I worked in the investment banks. I saw fewer of them in A&P and Vonage. Real people work for the latter companies; the former tend to be full of people who've lost touch with the reality of most people's lives. We all need a refresher course now and then.
10. I don't exactly regret the Ph.D. program. I learned a lot. I could write a novel about it except David Lodge did it first and probably better. One of my favorite teachers from undergraduate told me "You probably should have stayed in social work." Maybe. But I am with Penelope on this one: the escapes are not escapes all. You actually can adjust to what you think of as your "cruel fate" if you can stop thinking of yourself as somehow special. You're not.

Hey Penelope – Love your posts, but I'm not loving your editor. I think you need to hire a new one. :)

Also, if you want to be President of the United States, you should probably go to law school =P

Presumably you are not entirely serious. Truman never saw the inside of a law school, nor did Eisenhower. Clinton is a lawyer. So is Obama. So was Lincoln. I'm not sure there is a correlation between readiness for the office and a law degree.

I think people are reading too much into the military comment. P means if you join the military because you have no idea what else to do with your life (i.e. escape hatch)–then it's a bad reason to join. I don't think she saying the military is an inherently flawed career choice.

Great post, btw! I could completely identify with your reasons. I'm about 4 years out of college and considered going back to graduate school briefly. However, at some point you need to get out of the classroom and start living your life.

Penelope,

If people could learn these things on the job, they would have no reason to go to grad school and would not voluntarily spends hundreds of thousands of dollars. Many places won't even interview you without a Master's degree, and sure, as an entrepreneur, I can learn as I go, but I'd be a hell of a lot further ahead of the poor schlubs who have never had a business education if I at least knew a little about accounting and the various types of companies out there.

Are you sure you're telling us what you really think?

I have two words for you: blog karma

I'm turning 30 this year and had a baby a little over a year ago. I was set on pursuing an MBA, but have changed my mind about it. It's expensive and the most successfull managers in my company do not have MBAs; thay have risen up the ranks and through EXPERIENCE they know how to manage our business. The MBAs we hire from outside the company are incompetent and total fakes. They don't last very long and end up jumping from one company to another. Great post, Penelope. It's your best one yet.

Louis Pasteur did not have an M.D.
Robert Browning and Walt Whitman did not have MFA's, MA's, or doctorates.

Have to add this about Ph.D.'s, sorry–

I finished my requirements in November 1975 and defended my dissertation. At the time I was teaching a course in Women's Literature, about which I knew nothing except I had 10 extraordinarily lovely young women in my class. The day after I came into class and there was a cake and bottle of bubble-juice. The cake said "Congratulations, Dr. Wolman." I wanted to cry. I almost did. I remember saying "Don't take it all too seriously. A Ph.D. doesn't mean your smarter than anyone else or more moral. Smarter? Earl Butz. More moral? Josef Goebbels."

I agree, for the most part. I got an MBA because I and my family live in an isolated "company town" of uber-educated government scientists, and I did not have a technical degree in order to get a decent job. Without an advanced degree, I would have stayed a secretary. However, the job prospects have dried up, and now the MBA is a detriment — I can't even get a secretarial job (which I don't want anyway but I need the money) because I am over-educated. So, I had no choice but to start my own business in a weak economy so that I have a chance of keeping up with my student loan payments.

The scientific PHDs, however, are very highly paid, do interesting work, and have stable jobs. Now, these are mostly engineers, physicists, and computer scientists, and tough job prospects around the country make it difficult to move away from here (golden handcuffs), but their jobs are more in demand and highly paid than any other in the area.

The choice to go to grad school is tempting, but I agree that it doesn't come without significant risk.

Getting a master's degree helped me immeasurably in finding employment in my field. It wasn't the degree itself so much as the internships, and graduate research assistantships, combined with the work on my thesis-like final project. These things helped me enter the workforce with something greater than the ZERO relevant experience I had after getting my bachelor's degree. I can't tell you how I would have landed my first job without that. Perhaps there are lots of internships and assistantships out there for undergrads, but I wasn't aware of them at the time, and they certainly aren't as specialized.

This worked so well the first time around, that if I ever decide to change careers I will likely take the same route.

I like and agree with most of this post and especially like the comments. The first line item (Grad school pointlessly delays adulthood) which discusses being 'lost' is the one I consider to be the most important. I could easily make the point that college delays adulthood.
Many of us were sold on the idea (myself included) that going to college right out of high school was really the only way to find ourselves and develop a career.
We were told a degree would guarantee a ticket to happiness, fulfillment, and success. It's a sales tool used by the colleges and universities to their great success. Personally I wouldn't change the school I attended or the degree I received but I wonder how things
may have been different if college wasn't so hyped and I was able to be 'lost' and explore the job market for let's say two or three years after high school. I know I would have got to know myself better and maybe I would have discovered something on my own that I really felt passionate about. Passionate enough to go to college or start a business or whatever.
I think the most appealing thing about college or graduate school is the promise of a great educational experience by expert faculty in a structured learning environment. It's the package deal that's all laid out for us – academics (classes, homework, lab work, study, and testing) and party. Setting goals for yourself and following through with them while stumbling along the way (lost) in the school of hard knocks is not pretty but valuable learning experience is gained. There's definitely a lot of pros and cons to consider regarding college or grad school based on the goals of the individual and the method that will work for them. The bottom line is there's nothing wrong with being lost and it is normal to varying degrees and at various stages in our lives. I know I don't have it all figured out and try to make it a point to ask for help when I need it. As I said in the first sentence, I like the comments as I know I am not alone when it comes to searching for answers on a daily basis.

Penelope,

You've obviously struck a nerve here. Thought you and your readers might be interested to see a post that Sheila Curran (former Director of Career Services at Duke University and Brown) and I posted yesterday on Career Hub:

http://www.careerhubblog.com/main/2009/02/why-grad-school-is-no-solution-to-unemployment-woes.html

Curious on your take on the "fast food" job perspective.

All the Best,
Chandlee Bryan

(P.S. I will say there are some students for whom grad school is the appropriate choice–especially if they can get funding and a free ride to a great program that aligns with their interests and career goals. But I think the knee-jerk "go to grad school" because of the economy reaction is a dangerous one.)

Spend three years learning firsthand by doing or spend three years reading books about someone else's theories about doing and then another decade (or longer) paying for it.

For those who work in any public sector organization, this could be your savior: http://www.ibrinfo.org/

Great post. I've noticed that the debate over the value of a graduate level education in today's job market has really intensified as of late, especially since anyone can pretty much anything about any subject via the social web.

However, I'm in my second year of my MBA program and I love it. Before starting grad school, I found a job right after graduation with a PR agency in Detroit and spent a year in the trenches.

The reason I went back: I wanted to learn from experts "how" businesses work and get to know all the moving parts on an intimate level. Sure, I may never use the stuff I learned in my international economics class, but there is plenty of valuable and tangible information being shared every time I set foot in the classroom.

I'm not looking for a company to work for… I'm looking for a company to lead, and I think the knowledge I've attained (and will contain to attain) from my MBA courses will set the foundation for achieving that goal.

I like reading this blog partly because it is so ballsy and the comments kick off a great discussion. Maybe the reason so many folks are disagreeing here is due to lack of context. Penelope, it seems that you may be mostly addressing this to younger folks who will soon be graduating undergrad or who recently have graduated. Going to grad school later, when you've had experience under your belt and may know more about yourself and the types of things you like to do can be great. At 30, I started my masters in library science because I had realized that I really liked doing research and organizing information. I worked full time while getting my MLIS and transitioned into a new job using those MLIS skills at the company I worked at during grad school even before completing the degree. Not all master's degrees are created equal. With my MLIS I can get a job in many different types of libraries, corporate research centers, knowledge management (my current area of work), and even in information architecture/website development.

Could this actually be an advantage to being older? It is refreshing to think about graduate school as perhaps a decision and experience that is better later. I know that in law school, most of my older colleagues were so much more relaxed and successful. They tend to be happier in their jobs as well.

My first two jobs out of grad school were jobs I couldn't have gotten *without* a Masters degree. I have a science based Masters degree and my second job was in the publishing industry making over $100k/year.

If someone is passionate about a subject and wants to learn everything they can–go to graduate school. It will help if you make a career out of your passion.

And I would like to see the "I-can-learn-it-all-in-the-real-world" do some work using their own particle accelerator. Grad school is not for everyone, but it is perfect for some people and in fact, it in is indispensable for some people.

My only regret is that I didn't get my Ph.D. in the same science-based area. There are openings in industry (i.e. the real word) paying over $200k/year that I can't apply for because they require a Ph.D.

Going to grad school to escape is dumb. Going to grad school to learn and *use* what you've learned is very smart.

Instead of Grad school, what about a certificate/diploma in business (accounting, marketing) through an accredited university offering all courses online? Do recruiters value these certificates? Is there a difference between, say the mass advertised Phoenix University online programs vs. say Northwestern or Boston U online programs? Does anyone have experience with online programs? Thanks.

I especially agree with the point that grad school delays adulthood and emotional maturity. I felt like I did not evolve at all emotionally during my junior and senior years in college. Not a good feeling.

Unfortunately, I see that many people in my age group (late 20's) that are returning to school. When I look for a job now (I have 8 years of experience in my field) it seems that many jobs I look at ask for a master's degree or better. Some of these positions even claim to be entry level. Many places won't even consider experience as equivalent. I think it is a complete pyramid scheme to have a higher degree (I have yet to see a university that is actually non-profit!), but I feel compelled to pay the money so that I can continue to compete in the job market. Hopefully I will learn some new things as well…

More on this topic as relates to IT types at http://geeks.pirillo.com/profiles/blogs/to-degree-or-not-to-degree

Grad school seem to be helpful if you want to change careers, and recessions are good times for multiple internships – they love to get you work for nothing (you start of volunteering, then progressing to $8-12-15-17-20/hour.) During a previos recession, I combined grad school yearound with 2-3 jobs at a time, and graduated with a long resume and tons of valuable experience, including my dream jobs (journalist), etc. I'm not in debt because I actually managed to pay my bills and lived in Brooklyn in the studio for $600, a block from ocean.

This advice should be taken with a grain of salt.

For people who desired a life of research, devoted to improving science and technology, getting a PhD is good at any time. Do not aim for Big money with a PhD, it is generally not there.

Same for Medical Schools, if your aim is to be rich, going into medical schools is generally career suicide no matter if there is an economic recession or not.

If your goal is to be financially affluent doing PhD/Med School is not a great idea, again, no matter if there is an economic recession or not.

Grad school do not delays adulthood. A person do not mature in a graduate school but a person also do not mature faster being unemployed. A person mature by understanding the society and by understanding their inner self. It is more affected by upbringing. For example pick any high school, I guarantee you there will be kids that are more mature and independent than others. Despite the fact that all the students significantly spent their time in the school.

PhD Programs are not pyramid schemes unless if you see the programs as means to get rich which you should not do in the first place. There are more to PhD than tenure track.

Go to Business school only if you have proper experience and a clear plan of what to come after. If your idea of getting an MBA is increase in salary then you should not blame Business school for not helping.

If you want to be financially wealthy. I suggest of getting a job or other means to generate steady income right after you earned a BS degree. Do not waste your money, watch your credit usage/grade, and while working keep an eye out on the world. When an opportunity presents itself do not be afraid to take it on, of course you should calculate the risk.

Generally school or military programs will not make you rich. What will you make you rich is yourself and how you interact with the market. It is an arduous journey there are no 2,5,6 years institutions that will give it to you instantly.

You kinda failed to explain why joining the military is such an awful, horrible thing.