I just hired someone to take care of my house for $50,000 a year: A house manager. This is in addition to the full-time nanny I have. And the cleaning service. And the assistant I have at work.
I know the first thing going through your mind is that I'm loaded and I'm lucky. But I'm not either: for instance, the house I live in is so small that I sleep in the kids' room. I chose a house like this because I think having money to pay people to help me maintain a sane household is more important than having tons of space for tons of possessions. Having to make choices like that is what makes this topic worth writing about.
But I wasn't sure if I was going to write at all about hiring a house manager, so I tried telling someone in person first, my friend Jason Warner, who is a director at Google. He said that that every high-level woman he's ever worked with—at Microsoft, Starbucks, and Google—has had to pay for tons of help at home or had a stay-at-home husband or has been literally falling apart at work.
For the past year, at least, I have been in the last category—falling apart. It's clear to me now that to be a woman competing at high levels in corporate life, you have to have people helping you. Serious help. Most men who make a lot of money and have kids also have a stay-at-home wife. She holds their world together while he focuses on work.
So I want you to know what it's really like to be a woman competing with the men who have stay-at-home wives: Expensive. There are jokes about the hyperbole of the annual study that says that housewives are worth six-figures. I think it is not hyperbole. Those men are getting not just a house manager, but someone who adores his kids, is there all the time, and someone who is willing to have some sort of regular sex life. For all that, the estimate of $100,000 a year seems very low.
My new house manager's specialty is families with moms who have very time-consuming jobs. I told the house manager that I'm worried that she will not be able to deal with how eccentric our family is. She says she has only dealt with eccentric families. She said the last family used to have birthday parties at breakfast instead of dinner because the mom couldn't get home for dinner.
I told the house manager that I am always home for dinner. And violin lessons. When I'm not traveling. I felt smug. For a minute. But really, I don't think there is an honest mom in the world who works full-time and feels smug.
I am hiring a house manager because I don't think there is any way I can compete in my profession if I have to do things like clean up gummy bears for an hour a night, or make a toy-store run in the middle of the day for a last-minute birthday party after school.
Jason was telling me that his wife went out of town for five days. She told him he had to take time off from work. He said he didn't want to use up vacation. He said he'd be fine.
But by the second day, he was going nuts. He said, "Penelope, it's unbelievable. I am telling the kids I'll be there in a minute and then I send an email. And I instant message chat while I'm driving. And I take phone calls when the kids are in the other room waiting for me. This is crazy. It's so hard."
But I have been doing this every day for years. That's really what convinced me to hire the house manager. Because Jason was doing my life for four days and he thought it was crazy. And Jason is the type of guy I'm competing with in business. He has a housewife. They are a good team.
When Jason was writing guest posts on my blog I was talking with him all the time. He asked about the time stamps on my emails, he asked me when I slept (for about six months, when I started blogging, I basically stopped sleeping), and he asked me when I relaxed. Mostly I was jealous that he had someone at home taking care of so much stuff.
So now I'm not jealous. But, I have to confess something. I'm jealous of all the guys who kept a family together while they built up their career. I wish I could have done that.
So here's my advice to women who want a big career and a stable family: You need to earn a lot of money to make that happen. I don't know a stay-at-home dad who is seriously taking care of kids full-time, over the course of five-to-seven years, without a lot of money in the bank. And I don't know a woman who has a huge career without money to support a bunch of people to take care of things at home.
For women, the difference between success and failure at the top of the ladder is, I think, a house manager.





Penelope,
Very interesting post. I totally agree with the need to have help if you are running a household – I'm single, working full-time as an attorney, have no kids (though I do have a number of pets), and still feel that I have lost control of my small home. This house manager may be just the thing to allow me to find time to breathe again – how on earth did you find your manager??
Posted by bindy on April 10, 2008 at 11:16 am | permalink |
The mixed fonts in your post look really classy. A couple of hours until the red lines through the words appear in my RSS feeder? You do need a 'person who makes up for the deficiencies' in your blogs presentation, grammar, spelling etc. (I wouldn't dare to venture a title, since I'm not in book publishing and therefore couldn't possibly know the proper title. Not that I'm sure what blogs and book publishing have in common that scientific editing don't, but never mind.)
Posted by sarah on April 10, 2008 at 11:33 am | permalink |
Aside from being distracted by the different fonts, I found this post fascinating. Not because I can relate in any way, but because it's so alien to me. I think you offer great advice for a certain segment of society (none of my friends complain about raising kids and managing careers), but honestly, you sound a bit… defensive. So you have to hire a house manager. Own it, and stop feeling like you need to justify everything.
* * * * * * * *
The reason I sound defensive is because I am inundated with comments like the two below this one. And all the women I know who have careers similar to mine are defensive. In private. One of the things I try to do with this blog is to make generally private discussions public in order to take the power out of the discussion. To be honest, this discussion is so scary to me that I was even scared to bring it up in private.
You can tell people to own their decisions and to stop being defensive, but the most important decisions in our lives — like, what is fulfilling work, and which school events cannot be missed — are never clear cut and it's never possible, I don't think, to be certain that what we've done is right. So the best thing we can do is discuss it in public and get as many perspectives as we can tolerate.
–Penelope
Posted by deepali on April 10, 2008 at 11:42 am | permalink |
I'm still not sure why the kids to begin with? Were they happy accidents? It doesn't sound like you are particularly focused on anything more than yourself and your career.
What is this need to always be out their advancing and achieving? Someday you are going to realize how pointless it has all been and you will have wasted so much time and energy that you could have been using to 'live your life'. By live your life, I mean spending time with friends and family, taking in a movie, going to the theater, watching tv or reading a great book. THOSE are the things that matter.
*********
Probably the hardest thing I've done since I've had kids is work on figuring out what is fulfillment to me. What do I need to feel intellectually satisfied? What does it mean to be an ENTJ? What do I need to give as a parent in order to feel like a "good" parent? What do I need to give to friends and family and what do I need to take for myself. These are very very difficult questions. I was a stay-at-home mom for a bit. And I have to tell you that I was absolutely blown away by how wrong that life was for me. I was a latchkey kid and hated it, and I always expected to be home with my own kids. It is so hard to know ourselves. We think we know ourselves, and then something changes. My favorite discussions are the ones where we are all honestly trying to do this together.
-Penelope
Posted by klein3351f@yahoo.com on April 10, 2008 at 11:43 am | permalink |
For someone who writes alot about work-life balance, this post seems a little misguided. It might be true that 'at the top of the ladder' most women need someone to pick up the domestic slack, as *most* men aren't interested in staying at home. But who wants to be at the top of the ladder? Unless getting to the top means retiring young and wealthy, it seems like you're just getting on a treadmill you can never get off.
Posted by LP on April 10, 2008 at 11:45 am | permalink |
Also, thanks for fixing the crazy mixed fonts.
Posted by LP on April 10, 2008 at 11:46 am | permalink |
I "did it all" for over 20 years and nearly went nuts. How I did it: Horrible quality of life with slipshod cleaning, little personal time, and lots of fast food. Not great but what most of us actually do when push comes to shove.
Ironically, I'm a housewife now, though not by choice, but our everyday quality of life is admittedly better. Anyway, your post was very cheering to me.
Please don't apologize for outsourcing this stuff–men NEVER, EVER do.
Posted by Arlene on April 10, 2008 at 11:49 am | permalink |
I am a working mom of one with a husband who's never home and suddenly feel very, very depressed. Misguided, I thought I could do it all.
And people, who cares about the fonts? Read the post a couple of days ago about typos.
Posted by Colleen on April 10, 2008 at 11:50 am | permalink |
This post was the straw.
I'm done Penelope. I remember when I first found your blog, I found it really interesting. But somewhere along the way your perspective seems to have lost its grip on reality.
I didn't have to do this. I could have just removed your site from my RSS reader and never said anything, but I'm trying to be constructive.
I'll not be reading any more. I've removed your site from my RSS reader. There are other writers out there who deserve my reading time, other writers who provide genuinely meaningful thoughts on careers and the work environment. They take the time to spellcheck their posts, and don't whine when people tell them they've made errors. They take the time to respond to many of their readers, not just the ones that are easy.
And they don't talk about anal sex, or toe fungus, or plastic surgery. They don't talk about how they used to look in bikinis. They certainly don't air their divorce laundry. Maybe that works for you, and maybe that works for some readers, but if I had to guess, I'd say your traffic has gone through the floor and you're desperately seeking a way to get it back.
Goodbye Penelope. I truly hope you can find the "careerist" part of yourself back. The "brazen" part has left the bad taste of desperation in my mouth.
Posted by Adrian L on April 10, 2008 at 11:51 am | permalink |
First of all. I am not using an RSS Feeder, and her post on her website looks just fine.
Those of you with readers may want to stop jumping to conclusions. Maybe something happened in the conversion in sending out your reader.
Nope, technology is perfect, can't be the RSS feed, must be Penelope.
Secondly, my wife travles 100% for her job and we both have full time jobs. When she is out of town, I am basically a single parent. it is not easy to come home from work, get the kids to soccer practice / tutoring / games / do homework / clean house / make dinner / do bills.
Most nights I do not get to bed until after midnight. I catch up on my sleep on weekends.
I have help too. I have someone watch the kids after school and someone who cleans our house every other week.
It is just the way it is.
Posted by Jim Eiden on April 10, 2008 at 11:57 am | permalink |
Wow- colleen, that's tough criticism. we're all different, with different thoughts on what constitutes reality. that's the beauty of blogging, you don't have to agree with the blogger. "whining" and "desperation" seem far from anythhing constructive.
Posted by Kelly on April 10, 2008 at 12:04 pm | permalink |
Hi Penelope. I'm asking this sincerely, what does a house manager do that a cleaning person, nanny and personal assistant does not? Is it more of a running errands and keeping your personal (as opposed to professional) calendar thing? This is the first I've heard of it and I'm curious.
Posted by J on April 10, 2008 at 12:19 pm | permalink |
Whoa. Lots of anger in the comments section.
Anyway, Penelope, as a 20-something already feeling the pinch of balancing a career and a relationship, thanks a lot for the heads up. I think sometimes women are afraid to outsource these things because it is like admitting that you can't be a "good wife." And there is a lot of pressure not to let anything drop, to be good at everything, effortlessly. So, I applaud you for sharing this and I know this information will help me make decisions about career and family.
Posted by Latoya Peterson on April 10, 2008 at 12:21 pm | permalink |
Where's the value in sacrificing your interaction with your family to pursue greater material rewards and upward mobility? Will it make you happier?
The stuff we acquire in life is filler and is so impermanent, it is the interaction with those we love that lasts forever. Anything else is just a temporary high.
Posted by funkright on April 10, 2008 at 12:31 pm | permalink |
Penelope,
As a brazen "non-careerist" I appreciate your support. I took time off my job when my daughter was born and never went back. I've been a stay-at-home dad, semi-pro writer, teacher, and house manager. My wife has a challenging and, fortunately, high-paying job, and knowing that the house and all its sundries will be looked after is, I think, a blessing to her. Sometimes she even says that herself. I also appreciate that you've pegged my value between $50,000 and $100,000 per year. Hmm… maybe I should ask for a raise (i.e. higher food budget).
Regards,
Richard Best
Oakville Ontario Canada
Posted by Richard Best on April 10, 2008 at 12:38 pm | permalink |
I find it interesting that people talk about how meaningless this blog is, but then write multiple paragraphs about it. If something triggers so much emotion, then it has to have meaning with you, whether you want to acknowledge it or not…
Penelope, keep it coming… If everyone loved your posts, you wouldn't have a career…
Posted by Sean on April 10, 2008 at 12:41 pm | permalink |
Everyone wants to read this and get onto you about putting your need to get ahead over the needs of your family. Everyone wants to think that you're putting your effort into something that doesn't last (your career) instead of into something permanent (your kids). It's not that simple, people. We have but one life–and it's all mixed up together. Penelope can no more not strive for success than she can decide to be a different personality type. She has to make decisions that are right for her needs. And in this post, she's recognized that the needs of others who are important to her (family) needed more attention–hence, the house manager. If she could have met both sets of needs (her own, and her family's) alone, she would have. It's not like she never tried. This is a mature assessment of a complex question, and a reasonable response. And oh, a bonus, we (the readers) get to be in on the details, and maybe learn something.
Posted by Hagar on April 10, 2008 at 12:42 pm | permalink |
Well said. I've always thought that cloning myself would be the perfect solution. Woman at home, woman at work.
I'm a SAHM who finds satisfaction in my life…but let me tell you, there are many things that "Mommy" does not have to do that can easily be outsourced.
Posted by Stretch Mark Mama on April 10, 2008 at 12:54 pm | permalink |
Reading Penelope's stuff is like being that proverbial fly on the wall that most of us have wanted to be at some time or another…
…that's what reading blogs/social networking site communiques between members/SOMEONE ELSE's EMAIL are sometimes, really – watching crumbling cookies, milk spill and train wrecks.
I appreciate ALL of it.
I think it was Barbara Walters who said…A LONG TIME AGO…a woman can have two of threee things:
a husband
children
a career
She can have two of these things but not three. I think your horizon is clearing Penelope. Keep up the WONDERFUL WORK that you do!
Posted by Maureen Sharib on April 10, 2008 at 1:05 pm | permalink |
I don't for a moment fault you for hiring help to accommodate your busy life and help you build success. But it's not for everyone. I think there's a lot to be said for the argument that women need to redefine business success on our own terms.
Work life balance shouldn't mean superwoman doing it all, with or without help. There has to come a point where success is measured in the balance itself. I work, I have a good professional reputation, I enjoy what I do, and I have time for personal endevours. The Gen Y folk seem to be heading more in that direction. Why shouldn't we help push society in that way? If we really want to enjoy both work and personal lives, let's just redefine success.
Carla
* * * *
The problem with this line of reasoning is that it assumes that fulfilling looks similar to everyone. I think some people are more competitive than others, some people are more intense than others, everyone's natural pace is different. The most competitive aspects of the business world cater to a very certain type of person, and the stay-at-home life that includes sewing and cooking and home schooling caters to another type of person. And there are all the people in between. The people in between need some sort of balance to feel fulfilled. The people at the two ends of the spectrum probably don't need as much of the half-and-half thing for their fulfillment.
-Penelope
Posted by Carla on April 10, 2008 at 1:27 pm | permalink |
I found this post fascinating and forwarded it to a couple of my working mom friends with a note that said "this has a lot of truth to it." THEN I read the comments. Wow. You know how to get people riled up!
My takeaway from this post AND from my own experience is that a pursuing a career and being serious about family are two full-time endeavors. Whatever your gender, you can't do both well AND keep your sanity… you need HELP. Better to admit it and make the changes that you have to make in order to LIVE than to go on in denial popping xanax and feeling miserable.
Posted by bananas on April 10, 2008 at 1:34 pm | permalink |
Great post.
Unless you have a husband who will pick up a lot of the slack and/or low standards for household maintenance, hiring domestic help is the only way to get it all done.
Unfortunately, right now I fall into the low standards camp…my house hasn't really been cleaned in months.
Posted by Tracy on April 10, 2008 at 1:43 pm | permalink |
I second bananas, I really liked the honesty of your post and then was surprised at the polarized comments. I guess this is a really hot issue, the balance of work and home life. I like that you put this all out there, and talk honestly about the types of sacrifices that you make and see other people making. Thanks!
Posted by Liz on April 10, 2008 at 1:48 pm | permalink |
I read this and my heart sang! I totally encountered the exact situation (minus kids, strangely) when I was earning a big salary and traveling 100% of my workweek. My fellow business travelers- all men- had spouses at home that managed their expense reports, figured out fun vacations, and did lots of other quality of life stuff while we were heads down in big projects. I really envied them. The significant others in my life complained that I wasn't there enough, still left social & quality oflife stuff up to me, and, of course, the relationships never lasted. My personal epiphany was that if I continued in this vein, I would never find someone who wanted to call me and ask what kind of towels I liked for our house- something one of my coworkers got called on while I was sitting in the cube debugging something with him. I was so envious I could spit.
So- I stopped traveling, took a pay cut, and I'm a lot happier. Everyone finds a different solution, part of it is recognizing an unfair system, and it sounds like you made some steps to rectify it, and while regardless of whether it's the answer, or not, you've admitted to yourself that you only have the hours in the day.
Posted by Anna on April 10, 2008 at 1:51 pm | permalink |
I think you guys are missing the most important part of this post. Somewhere a woman is being $50K per client to be a "house manager" where said clients already employ a nanny and a maid. How do I get this job? Seriously.
Posted by Leets on April 10, 2008 at 1:57 pm | permalink |
Couldn't a great (and well-paid) nanny have taken on this role? She's already getting the house cleaned by someone else, and she's taking care of the kids. What else is there that requires an additional $50,000 salary?
I'm not sure how you could study and internalize any of the lessons from recent happiness research and then make these kinds of decisions. It doesn't fit. From the outside, this looks like a collision course with a full-on nervous breakdown and total family collapse…and I guess it's already started.
I don't believe that careers are an all-or-nothing proposition. The most successful (in holistic way, not accumulating wealth) parents I've seen have found ways to set realistic expectations for their impact in the working world, at least until their kids are a bit older. That doesn't mean dropping out — it means doing enough work to feel productive, pay the bills, and have something meaningful happening outside the family circle. That usually leaves enough time and energy to maintain relationships and take responsibility for parenting your children. No, it's not easy to compromise and make sacrifices, but the alternative is to give up on your kids altogether.
Posted by Jeremy on April 10, 2008 at 2:07 pm | permalink |
Just wanted to say something to those who say Penelope has lost a grip on reality.
One of the most compelling things about this blog is that it IS Penelope’s reality. I get frustrated reading other career blogs where the writers dance coyly around personal issues. The personal is part of what allows us to succeed or fail in our careers. What’s brazen about Penelope is that she talks about things other people are afraid to address. (And really, what grown person is unable to handle a frank mention of health, sexual or relationship issues online?)
Hiring a house manager is not a reality for me, or for most people – but it is for Penelope, and obviously for enough others that she was able to find an experienced house manager where she lives.
And the interesting personal story proves the bigger point that she talks about all the time: it is not possible to have it all, be the best, and do it alone – for women or men. We make choices and sacrifices in our careers and our families all the time, and most of us have the best intentions but don’t know how to make it work.
The advice here is always interesting and thought provoking, even if it doesn’t specifically apply to everyone’s reality.
Posted by Veronica Sawyer on April 10, 2008 at 2:08 pm | permalink |
I think it's a fantastic idea. If my wife and I had an extra penny to our name, I'd do it in a heartbeat. After all, having someone manage the mundane things leaves you with the ability to spend what little time you DO have with your kids enjoying it.
Posted by Norcross on April 10, 2008 at 2:15 pm | permalink |
I'm a stay-at-home dad who runs his own business (5 years running, thank you) and it's all about choices. If you want a stellar career, maybe kids aren't for you. If you want kids, you might have to sacrifice that corner office.
I clean, I cook, I change diapers, and I'm waiting until the kids are both in school to focus more on business. And I wouldn't have it any other way.
But that's me.
Posted by Andertoons on April 10, 2008 at 3:08 pm | permalink |
This is the fallout of bad life decisions.
She is a single mom now, who wants to be rich. The tradeoff will be time with the kids and no mother at home with them while she travels and works.
Maybe Dad should get the kids so she can have it all on the career side.
Let's just hope for the sake of the children that her pursuits will allow them enough time with her as a parent.
Divorce brings the same pressures on whomever has the children.
Posted by Steve on April 10, 2008 at 3:18 pm | permalink |
Your post reminded me Elizabeth Warren's theory of "The Two-Income Trap"–it's more costly for both parents to be working than for one to give up the income and stay at home to raise the children and tend to those matters (man or woman).
the book: The Two Income Trap: Why Middle-Class Mothers and Fathers Are Going Broke
Posted by Bill on April 10, 2008 at 1:32 pm | permalink |
You must make a ton-O-money.
A house manager for 50,000
A full-time nanny est. 40,000
Cleaning service est 15,000
Total $105,000.00
The average household brings in around $40,000.
You spend two and a half times what an average household brings in on support.
Like I said you must make a ton-O-money
Posted by James Mc Fadden on April 10, 2008 at 3:38 pm | permalink |
Not just women. I'm a dad who works full time *and* have a stay-at-home wife taking care of the kids full time (one of whom is on the autistic spectrum, like yours) and yet my career is still suffering.
My wife is stressed and overwhelmed, which in turn is making me the backup for her, and harming my ability to compete in my career.
Personally, I think we need to hire help … to free up time for me to compete more effectively.
Posted by DAR on April 10, 2008 at 3:43 pm | permalink |
I am totally for getting help, but this seems excessive to me. I'm a single mother, travel 25% of the time for a demanding job but have no domestic help other than friends to keep the kids while I'm travelling. You employ 3 people to help, so essentially, if you were not working, you'd still need 2 people to help?
Posted by Muddypelican on April 10, 2008 at 3:52 pm | permalink |
When I worked for a huge insurance company, we had stats on how much it would cost to replace a stay-at-home mom should something happen to her so that husbands would buy enough insurance to keep working. Sure we were a little biased, but P's numbers are NOT off. There are many other stats out there on this.
If every man who wanted a career decided not to have kids because he should be at home changing diapers, we'd have a population crisis on our hands. Why are we telling women to do this? BS!
I think everyone is really quick to judge how other people live their life. That one commenter is right: this IS P's reality. These are her choices.
Who is bashing the dads for working 80-hour weeks?
Nannies are not the same as house managers. Have you tried to run errands, plan a party, write email or schedule appointments while watching three kids? Is it easier with or without the kids?
I don't have kids because I don't earn enough to have someone take care of them. I have too many chronic illnesses to be able to carry them and their equipment, and I'm a high risk for a stroke/heart attack so I shouldn't be left alone with kids in case something happens.
If I could adopt a child and have full-time, round-the-clock nanny, maid and assistant, would I have one? I'd at least consider it. Would that child be better off in foster care or with me?
Posted by Sarah on April 10, 2008 at 4:09 pm | permalink |
The thing I think is hilarious about you, Penelope, is that you equate your career/success to some high-powered exec's career. From what I have read, you haven't had a lot of success. You sure Daddy isn't paying the $105,000?
Posted by jim on April 10, 2008 at 4:09 pm | permalink |
It seems to me that several people are not clear–P wants to compete with the big guns–the people who work 80 hours a week and earn millions.
Those of you who have careers and are home at 6pm for dinner are not. Period. Your choice.
Posted by Sarah on April 10, 2008 at 4:11 pm | permalink |
Thanks you Penelope for voicing what so many ambitious, career-oriented women are or have already experienced. We are part of a generation of women who are struggling at the crossroads of "You can be anything" and "You can't have it all." I like hearing what choices you've made and why, and I admire your courage in documenting and encouraging the debate. My decisions might be different, but I'm still trying to balance the same set of variables – career, relationship, parenting and sanity. Keep blogging, we need your voice!
Posted by stephanie on April 10, 2008 at 4:29 pm | permalink |
Jim–have you heard of aiming high?
Posted by Sarah on April 10, 2008 at 4:38 pm | permalink |
I completely agree with hiring whoever it takes to run a smooth household. If you've got the money do it.
But here's the glitch. Do it for your kids, not for yourself. Kids thrive on stability, consistency, routine, familiarity, guidance, attention and on and on. All of these give them a sense of security and well-being.
I can't help but notice Penelope's verbage in her response: "What do I need to feel intellectually satisfied? … What do I need to give as a parent in order to feel like a “good” parent? …What do I need to give to friends and family and what do I need to take for myself. "
What do I need? I, I, I. Me, me, me.
If you have kids, it's no longer about you. It's about the kids. What do you need to do so the kids feel secure? What do you need to do as a parent, so you ARE a good parent to your kids – not so you FEEL like a good parent.
Put the cell phone down. Close up the laptop. Spend your time with your kids and give them your focus. They need to know they are more important than your work.
They are, aren't they?
Posted by sophie on April 10, 2008 at 4:41 pm | permalink |
Um, I'm with Leets–where does one get a job as a house manager for $50k? Too bad I don't live near you, Penelope, because I would do all three jobs–house manager, nanny and cleaner–for $50k!
I'm not even saying this to be snarky but since you are all about telling it like it is, I wish you would write a post sometime about how much money you do make. I'm totally serious and don't mean it in a nasty way at all–I honestly would like to know how much money your collective endeavors–Boston Globe, Brazen Careerist, book, etc–bring in. If I ever crack $100k in this lifetime I will be shocked; I can't imagine having $50k to spend on a house manager. Nor–and no offense–having any job so great it would require hiring a house manager to earn it in the first place.
Posted by Maggie on April 10, 2008 at 4:46 pm | permalink |
I'm just amazed that there's this implicit assumption that those of us who don't make a six-figure salary have oodles of time to clean house, run errands, etc. I make a bit over 65K and work very hard, and hiring anyone to help out beyond the kid who mows the lawn for $20 every other week is out of the question.
And you live in Madison. And you work at home. I'm just agog, is all. I would love to have a rich husband or money to hire the equivalent, but most Americans are cutting back, not scaling up, in this recessionary economy.
Posted by Ginger on April 10, 2008 at 4:47 pm | permalink |
@sophie: My kids are more important to me than my work, sure. So why do I go to work? To support my family. To show my children the value of work. It's not an either-or situation. You don't decide to put your family over all other things 24/7/365–it's untenable. And if you happen to be highly competitive and find great satisfaction in success (which isn't defined as a huge salary for everyone), then how do you balance your needs? You are the only one who can judge your needs–that's an "I" question–your kids can't judge your needs or help you balance them. No one can, except maybe a therapist or a good friend. That's the question–how to pick the balance point. Penelope has given us her answer. If you have a better one, then post it.
Posted by Hagar on April 10, 2008 at 4:48 pm | permalink |
Overall, great post. I continue to read your blog because you are someone who is finally honest about the demands of work, home, kids and actually puts a dollar value figure on it. The book "The 2 Income Trap" basically echoes your conundrum in that people don't realize the true value of a stay at home spouse.
At a previous job in public accounting I regularly worked 60 hour weeks plus traveled 10 weeks a year and worked as much as 80 hr weeks sometimes. Many people at that job always seemed to talk around the problems you mention here and I often wondered if their kids could even identify them in a police line up. I also wondered if some of them would have gotten divorced if only they had had time to do it.
Keep doing posts like this.
BTW, I don't use RSS and the fonts and colors look perfectly fine to me
Posted by Matt M on April 10, 2008 at 4:58 pm | permalink |
Penelope, please count me in as one of your supporters. For those who have made the decision, regardless of the reason, to climb the proverbial career ladder, be it man or woman it is necessary to do what you have described. I find myself wondering if some of the comments posted would remain the same if your name had been Paul instead of Penelope…
Posted by Nodding in Agreement on April 10, 2008 at 5:06 pm | permalink |
Three thoughts:
1. No seriously, tell us more about a house manager. Because I googled it and have seen it as part of a broader job description (nanny/housekeeper/house manager), but what does just a house manager entail?
2. You are right that noone would blink if a man wrote about this. Not. At. All. Every male executive I've dealt with had a wife/PA/company assistant. One in my current office has three assistants just for work, one just to read his email (and she makes $50k).
3. HOPEFULLY, what shocks some people is not that you're a woman hiring a house manager, but more the unfathomable life of the "executive". I suppose that you're right that working to death brings you absolute pleasure and satisfaction, whereas chilling on a tropical island would give you hives. Look at those shows about the fishermen and loggers who have lost limbs and state that they hope they die "dropping dead on the job". For a lot of us, that mentality is absolutely insane, but I suppose its as valid as anything else. And you're supporting those of us who prefer to chill out on those tropical islands….
Posted by Rose on April 10, 2008 at 5:10 pm | permalink |
In the end, this is really just about creating the life *you* want, and being realistic about what you need to do to make it happen.
And women, for goodness sake, must (must, must!) stop equating "good wife/mother" with "good floor sweeper" or "good stain-getter-outer." It's not about that. There was definitely some juggling, but both of my parents worked, and my Mom was (and is!) the most amazing mother. But she's also an amazing person who taught my sister and me through words and example how to be a fabulous, whole woman–in her own world, with her own talents. We kids weren't the sum of her existence, and we knew it. And we thought it was awesome.
Posted by Jennifer Lynn on April 10, 2008 at 6:12 pm | permalink |
I used to be a nanny for a very successful woman in Manhattan. While the kids were at school, I took care of everything that a house manager would. She also paid me extra to put together dinner parties, and would hire extra help while I oversaw the preparation, etc. While she paid fairly, it wasn't anywhere as much as you're spending. How about adding some job responsibilities onto the positions that you already pay for? That said, having all of that help sounds wonderful.
Posted by Bloggrrl on April 10, 2008 at 6:27 pm | permalink |
I'm a stay-at-home mother, and I'm only surprised by the vehemence of the comments here.
House manager/nannies make similar salaries in my Southern city. It would definitely cost that much to replace what I give to my family.
My husband is a public servant, but there is no way he could work the hours he does without a full-time wife or her professional counterpart.
Posted by Meredith on April 10, 2008 at 7:00 pm | permalink |
Penelope,
I especially agree with the saying that a woman can have two of three things: a husband, kids, a career. I just returned to work after having a baby. The reality is that I'm not nearly as productive or spectacular at work as I used to be. In fact, I think I'm a pretty lousy worker. I come in at 8 and I'm out at 5 (not a minute more or less) AND I turn my company cell phone off when I leave the office. I do just enough to be considered a satisfactory team member – and our engineering department just went UNION. However, I think I'm pretty damn good at meeting my husbands needs as a spouse and a pretty spectacular momma to my baby. My husband and I have also made critical choices/sacrifices to ensure that we at least get the most family time with each other. We are a two income family in San Francisco, CA – not exactly the most affordable place to live. Rather than move to the suburbs and battle a 1-2 hr commute plus $$$$ gas and bridge tolls, we decided to stay in our loft. Our work commute is about 10 minutes each by car. We have our daughter in daycare while we're at work and we pay $1300 a month. We also pay a cleaning lady $60/week. The day is still hectic even with all this help. The important thing is that we work as a team and we put priority on our family. Since I met my husband and we had a baby, reaching the top of the corporate ladder no longer appeals to me. That type of role/position will not fulfill my need to feel significant. My husband loves me so very much; my baby loves me….this is what makes me feel significant and special; nothing else. Being at the top in my career would ultimatley mean less time with my family. More money, YES. But consider the trade-off. Definitely not worth it to me or my husband. I know that you are now a single mom with a child with autism. It is expensive to care for a child with autism. You're in a tough situation and it no one who hasn't been in your shoes can criticize your choices. Good luck. God Bless.
Grace from SF
Posted by Grace Briones on April 10, 2008 at 7:37 pm | permalink |
Sounds not unlike the four-hour workweek concept. Outsource the things that you don't need to do. Actually, what I thought of first was housekeepers. While the title is different, this sounds like a combination of what the housekeeper and butler would do back in the day. People who have the money and feel their energies would be better spent elsewhere have always been doing this.
But in our culture, having servants is looked down on. But as someone who has been a research assistant I'd have to say it's pretty much the same thing. And that's ok as long as you have a respectful relationship, we had a great one.
Posted by Mrs. Micah on April 10, 2008 at 7:44 pm | permalink |
It seems like a just read a column where you said women were no longer interested in being above the "glass ceiling" because what was above it was so absurd. Actually, it was a column from a recycled or modified blog entry.
Anyway, it seems that you've decided to go above the glass ceiling and are discovering, as you pointed out in your column that "women CEOs don't raise their own children, someone else does"…they probably don't manage their own home either.
Everything comes back to choices and the run off of those choices, which is, of course, complicated. The choice to have children is laden with sacrifice and any person or couple not planning for that (especially "high powered" career couples) is foolish. The choice to exit a marriage when the children are small and need so much attention, well that has consequences too.
I would argue that if you could modify your expectations (and you would have to after having the limelight on you your entire life) to truly be in the presence of your children and enjoy raising them, you could probably work less and be there more. But you have to adapt, your children can't…they are, after all, children.
I agree that having someone home is a tremendous bonus. With 15 years professional experience and my Master's, I left a dreamy, lucrative job to be home full time with two children. It is hard but this window is so small; they are young so briefly. And the opportunity so great (how awesome to be able to scale back our lifestyle and have someone home), that it is worth it.
I don't think you have to justify having a house manager but I think you should understand what is happening internally with your professional, personal choices (which are very public) that drives the need for more and more help.
Posted by Angela on April 10, 2008 at 8:46 pm | permalink |
Good lord, I don't want a family at all.
Posted by Andrea on April 10, 2008 at 9:08 pm | permalink |
I'm glad to hear you hired a house manager because if that's what it takes to give you quality time with your kids, time for yourself, ability to concentrate on your career, and maintain a sane household then you made the right decision. You especially have a lot on your plate right now with your divorce and new start up company. You may be able to find a less expensive or a better arrangement in the future but I think you've taken a good first step forward and you'll learn by doing which is what you do.
Posted by Mark W. on April 10, 2008 at 9:18 pm | permalink |
Right on!!!
Thank you for peeling back the thick layer of whitewash around how "easy" life is for senior level dual career couples with young children. We're a dual career couple (both director level) with two young children (1 & 3) – it's been a very rough ride for the past couple of years. This is despite some mitigating factors:
- Minimal overnight travel (her zero, me < 15%)
- Liberal work-from-home polices
- Minimal focus on career advancement (both of use gave up staff management responsibilities, didn't pursue much training/certifications, and set firm boundaries around workload & face-time).
- Great bosses that fully supported us (granted we were both very strong performers beforehand).
Part of the challenge is that most senior level jobs don't stop/start in neat intervals… it's Friday night and the network's down? deal with it. Don't care if you spend all weeked on the phone, just get the system up before Monday at 9am when 2000 call center people report to work. Honked off sales manager fires off a nasty-gram to senior management that the new pricing policy is costing him customers? Deal with it – now – before he manages to start a revolution and get senior management to throw away six months of planning and change management. And don't get me started on pitch writing or contract negotiation (see you next week sweetie). Generally speaking, when they're paying you $100K+ a year, they want you to do things that the 9-to-5 crowd does not have to deal with and complete them instantly, excellently, and without question.
Drop a sick child in the middle of two crunch periods (her budget for the CIO, my update for our CEO & owners…a meeting we affectionately named "the boardroom" since the non-performers tended to get canned soon afterwards) and things can get hellish. And that's before you add the two other stressors in my business – overnight travel (most of my peers travel 50%) and client entertainment…and there's no way we could have done it. Most of my work friends have multiple divorces due to the lifestyle…
What's funny about this whole thing was after three years of low-level "class warfare" from my stay-at-home sister in law (sniping over how we spent my wife's income), she decided to go back to work as a teacher….her comment to my wife after one week of teaching…."I don't know how you do it"…and that's with two older kids and a job that is usually pretty family friendly.
Posted by john q public on April 10, 2008 at 11:03 pm | permalink |
As a 24 year old woman wanting "to have it all" one day (and now wondering just how that's going to happen) – I appreciate the honesty.
Of course, I could have just looked at my mother – she's a fantastic mom, a caring wife and a CFO. And I haven't known her to get more than 3 or 4 hours of sleep in a good many years. That's with my dad staying home to raise me.
Thanks for a good read, Penelope.
Posted by Katy on April 10, 2008 at 11:23 pm | permalink |
Amazing post. Right on!!!
The world judges you for making these arrangements. I think you set a wonderful example of a woman working hard as hell to chart a career and not drop out and have kids when it gets hard. Too many women stay at home to "assist" their hard-working husbands. I think it's a BAD deal for everyone, especially the stay-at-home.
She may bust her butt at home doing what an hourly worker can do (you've proven that), and if they ever divorce (which is common b/c he loses respect for someone with whom he can't relate anymore), she may get some child support and a little alimony (maybe!) Now her skills are dated, she can't make the living with the education her parents sacrificed to pay for … and she's alone.
Message to all women. Work hard, build your own career and retain the respect of your husbands, your kids and yourself. Don't stay home and make a sacrifice that will never benefit you, but presents an incredible level of risk.
RP
Posted by Rhonda on April 10, 2008 at 11:46 pm | permalink |
Exactly!!!
Posted by Mariella on February 5, 2010 at 11:51 am | permalink |
Love your blog, support your decisions, not that we should have to when, as you mentioned, men already have all these things at home as a housewife.
Having read your prior posts on hiring help, I'm hoping and praying I'll be in an economic position to hire help when needed.
In my country (a 3rd world one) we have servants. (The next few posts will now be bashing me). My mother is a senior economist and government advisor, my father busy with his professional life. My uncle is a CEO, his wife a university professor. All high-powered families need staff to take care of the mundane things: chauffer, cook, cleaner and maybe gardener. And they don't have young kids, for those that do it's usually two more "nannies".
Good for you P, I hope you get everything you want from life. Life is short, and those who are saying you need to spend time with your kids… well, my mom was always a professional, I do remember not wanting to be with babysitters and the like, but I'm also very close with her, and I don't think there's anything wrong with pursuing a high-powered career. Good luck.
Posted by Ruby on April 11, 2008 at 3:34 am | permalink |
I think that housekeeping, cooking, looking after children needs to be valued a lot. I tried to have a high powered career just like you have but my husband had one too and finally it was my decision to work part-time and take care of the house. It was no sacrifice in case it sounds like that. I love children and enjoyed being the health manager of the family. That is what I call myself, not house manager but health manager because today the right diet is extremely important for everyone. Growing kids also need healthy habits, be it of exercise, eating etc. What I am trying to say is that the work at home is as important as that which brings in the money. More important because tomorrow whether someone in the family gets a heart attack or the kids turns out to be a drug addict depends on the quality of house and child care. I was quite confident that no nanny or housekeeper would be as brilliant as me when it came to the work at home. I read voraciously, in fact 50 books on how to bring up kids in just 3 months! Penelope Leach was one author I remember. I read another one which tells you how to enhance the intelligence of kids.
I did start working again full-time after about a 10 year break but I was behind and had 30 year olds at my level and I was 40. I did it for about 5 years, and then went back to free-lancing.
Today I am a proud mother of two beautiful healthy balanced and brilliant daughters and I am mentally fulfilled. I am working on my novel, do a lot of creative writing and write a blog. I am happy and if I had to go back in time I would do the same. I am not saying that everyone should do what I did, no not at all! At times quality care at home is what one needs and not everyone enjoys motherhood and nor is everyone confident about it. Everyone should do what makes her/him happy.
I live in a country where nannies and drivers and cooks are routine and in fact you don't have to be a career woman to have them or afford them. Everyone has these things. I chose not to keep a nanny and chose not to keep a cook. I am proud of the work I do, picking fresh vegetables and fruits from the market, cooking two meals a day, and using health food and using the healthy ways of cooking. Every single thing that goes inside of us does something to our bodies.
And I write a lot too as writing is my passion.
I think it's time we gave as much value to mothering and housework as we did to corporate high fliers. Both are simply the different sides of the same coin. Both are needed and workload has to be shared.
Posted by Nita on April 11, 2008 at 4:22 am | permalink |
I fear you will end up having a great deal of regret, one day, for these decisions you are making.
You are sacrificing your children on the altar of your personal comfort.
How far we've departed from the days of our grandparents and their grandparents… who sacrificed so much for us.
If you get nothing from my comment – get this… please ponder my last question.
Doesn't it bother you that you're letting *someone else* raise YOUR children?
Posted by John Doe on April 11, 2008 at 4:38 am | permalink |
I thought stay-at-home dad took care of the kids before. So why are they with you now, when you have so little time for them? For their sake, I hope the reason is because dad is an unfit parent. Any other reason makes you look, shall we say, unfavorable.
Posted by Dan on April 11, 2008 at 5:42 am | permalink |
All this makes me jealous of polygamists. It just seems like it takes more than two adults to raise a family these days. Years ago mothers stayed at home, and there were often extended families. So I guess the question to ask is would you rather have three husbands to deal with or one along with his mother and father?
Posted by Murray Trillionaire on April 11, 2008 at 5:44 am | permalink |
Right On, Penelope!
Usually I read your posts to enjoy being annoyed, but this post I read and salute. It's absolutely true. Thanks for writing it.
Posted by Elena on April 11, 2008 at 6:16 am | permalink |
Penelope,
Great post, and I see nothing wrong with having a house manager, or any other support that helps you run your business and home smoothly.
But, and I'm surprised no one else commented on this…you really should have your own bedroom! Sleeping in the kids room is bizarre, surely you can afford a room of your own? Your kids need their own space too.
Posted by pam on April 11, 2008 at 6:47 am | permalink |
Penelope… perhaps your next spouse should be a woman. Seriously! Partnered lesbians with demanding careers seem to make it work. Sure, many still employ child care, but the women power couples I know share the load in an equal way that I don’t often see in double-income heterosexual marriages. Why? Because both women assume the burden of “primary” parent, head domestic, etc. and when two people step up to the plate with equal zeal, well, it’s just easier. I’m not saying that a man can’t do this. I just don’t see it often enough.
Posted by Queercents on April 11, 2008 at 8:26 am | permalink |
Oh my word. Yes. Totally. I was forced out of a job (not fired, but definitely pushed) after having my second kid because my boss thought I wasn't keeping it together. She said lots of my colleagues had babies and could still stay late for a last-minute meeting. That's true, but all the other people had stay-at-home wives.
Also, for everyone who says working moms let someone else raise their kids: you have no idea what you're talking about. No, seriously, you don't. Just stop it already.
Posted by Kelly O on April 11, 2008 at 9:32 am | permalink |
Could not agree more. I'm lucky enough to have a husband who is a freelance writer and works from home. The money we don't spend on daycare bills and take-out meals helps us stay afloat, because I'm still building my career. It also means whenever there's a stay-late project at the office, I can put in overtime (and face time) without worrying about where the kids are or having to pick them up and shuttle them around. I tell him all the time he's my hero and the backbone of our family. Stay-at-home spouses more than make up the lack of a second paycheck.
Posted by karen on April 11, 2008 at 9:40 am | permalink |
I’ve been trying to figure out how to respond to this post. It’s hard to characterize my reaction. What I’ve always liked about B.C. and P.T. has been the universality…that there were things which I could relate to, even if my end-goal wasn’t creating a company or ending up in a C-level exec. suite.
The posts I’m seeing lately seem more purposefully controversial, strident, even bitter. The advice (plastic surgery is the way of the future successful person in business, being an exec makes impossible demands on personal life) seems more about justifying what P.T. is choosing to do now, than it is about something really relevant. And as someone who’s been part of this blog community for several years now, it’s also pretty contradictory to earlier posts.
It just seems less relevant. Actually, it just really seems kind of sad.
Posted by JenFlex on April 11, 2008 at 9:43 am | permalink |
This is one of the big reasons I just quit my job. I'll do something freelance or contract or part-time, but it's damn near impossible to keep a household running when both parents work 50-60 hour weeks. You need outside help or you need to step back and reconfigure.
Posted by JB on April 11, 2008 at 9:48 am | permalink |
Nice to see that sexism is alive and well. Negative comments like this would not be posted if P was a man.
Posted by InMadison on April 11, 2008 at 9:51 am | permalink |
Penny,
If you were a man, this would be a non-issue.
Cheers,
Dale
Posted by Dale on April 11, 2008 at 10:46 am | permalink |
I actually don't think the vitriolic comments are about gender (at least not entirely). I think it's more about money and class. I think people are angry that you said, "$50,000." I think you're being judged most harshly for that.
Anyways, I'm single and responsible for no one but myself and I still needed to hire a dog sitter 5 days a week. :)
Posted by Joselle Palacios on April 11, 2008 at 10:49 am | permalink |
What on earth is controversial about getting household help?
In life, you can spend time or you can spend money to accomplish the various things that help you to achieve success.
If you don't have one, then prioritize your use of the other so that you achieve your strategic objectives efficiently. End of story!
Just my two cents worth.
Posted by Dale on April 11, 2008 at 10:52 am | permalink |
Wow — this is a topic that everyone has an opinion on. Sounds like we need some national therapy, regardless of where you sit on this issue and how you balance career and famiy! I was moving up the ladder swiftly before having my daughter. I thought I would stay home for 3 weeks and run back to work. I stayed home FT for three years, and now have a very different outlook on life and a very different career. Here is what I believe, as contradictory as it sounds (1) only you know what is best for you and how you can best contribute to this world, (2) P is very lucky to have the CHOICE to hire help, have a lucrative career, etc — think about all of those families stuck in the middle with more demands on them and less resources to help, (3) our country needs to take a hard look at itself and what we are doing to families, children, etc. There must be a better way, and (4) I do miss a fast-paced career. I definitely miss the salary and respect. But every time I see my daughter learn something new, or skip through the park, or smile at me – I know there is no place I would rather be. It is hard to admit – but I was easily replaced in my old job. No one can ever truly replace the important role a Mom plays in her childrens' lives.
Posted by TM on April 11, 2008 at 10:53 am | permalink |
Sounds like you have your hands full Penelope. I've been there from the single dad side, it's def not easy. I would encourage you to find better balance and let some of the professional stuff go. Again I've been there and made the choice to put family first, career second. I'm not a VP or CEO, except to may family and that's far more important than any company I would ever work for or own.
We only get one chance with our kids and as you know they grow up way to fast. Don't trade a moment with them for anything.
Good luck!
Posted by Scott Williamson on April 11, 2008 at 11:12 am | permalink |
Penelope, great post!
I have seen this or similar topics addressed on your blog before and I always find it interesting that whatever choice anyone has made (career v family) they always feel morally justified…and seem to feel somewhat guilty/defensive as well.
There seems to be research available to support any decision you make. I work from home and my wife stays at home. So we both see the kids off to school, and we are there when they get back. We coach little league, never miss a game or a recital. Once a month I travel…maybe for 3 days. My kids have a fit when I leave. I used to have a job, where I traveled 75%. My kids had a fit when I left then too.
The point is that your kids want 100% of your time, no matter the circumstances. Since this is impossible, you have to find something that works for you as well. Kids will adapt, and if you tell them that you love them enough, they will know it is true.
Posted by Rich on April 11, 2008 at 11:54 am | permalink |
Penelope,
What I was interested in was your decision to buy a small house. We moved from a 3,000 square ft. house to a 1,400 square ft. one and I like it a lot better. I hope I get to the point where I can hire a house manager but until that time, a smaller home is less demanding timewise. I don't miss the possessions I sold or gave away either.
Posted by leslie on April 11, 2008 at 12:14 pm | permalink |
Like a couple other people, I'm really curious about what your house manager's responsibilities are, which is what prompted me to leave a comment. Like so many of your posts, I found this one totally fascinating, thought-provoking and honest. To me, your insights about work and life usually seem dead-on. Thanks for pushing the conversation to a higher and really interesting level.
Posted by Julie on April 11, 2008 at 12:16 pm | permalink |
First off: Penelope, I think you brought up some great points. I agree that a house manager is necessary. And if you have to pay one, then at least NOW you have one.
I "gave up" my career, willingly, because I longed for an organized, sane home base. It's great; it's fine for me, and it doesn't have to be forever. My DH wasn't a good fit for the position, and I was. We're all much better off now that I'm our house manager.
Colleen: I think I worked with you! You are one of the many reasons I am not a career woman anymore. So, here I am, smiling, not looking back, while you are seemingly not very happy with your choices in life. Hope you change that.
Thanks, Penelope, for another entertaining & enlightening blog.
Posted by Kathy on April 11, 2008 at 12:30 pm | permalink |
Good – perhaps you can manage to shovel your front sidewalk next winter!
Posted by Deb on April 11, 2008 at 12:39 pm | permalink |
Dear Penelope,
I appreciate what you wrote, because it makes me feel the value of what I do. (And I respect what you do, too).
I'm a free-lance writer who stays home. Although sometimes I'm crazy busy, and I'm not the most domestic person in the world, I do manage to take care of a lot of things that would be exhausting if I wasn't around–getting the car fixed, getting child's cell phone repaired, bringing child's ##)%!@ forgotten lunch to school, waiting for Comcast repair guy, making weekend plans, planning vacations, making dinner, taking cat to vet, taking children to doctors, grocery shopping, laundry, driving kids to friends' houses, picking up sick children from school, going to school conferences, taking time to research how to help children in ways they need help, and probably most important of all, listening to children and husband. The being available for children and listening attentively to them and understanding them deeply is probably the most important aspect of me being at home, in my view. I remember my mother being home after school, always available for a cup of tea and a talk, and that's what I wanted to do for my kids.
However, I do know full-time working mothers who raise fantastic kids, too. I say good for them!!
Posted by Sheila on April 11, 2008 at 1:42 pm | permalink |
Take a look @ these 2 books Penelope, possibly they'll help put your life into perspective.. Pursuing material gains at the expense of all else will never fill your bucket or your life.
Power of Now
A New Earth
both by Ekert Tolle, he isn't saying many things that are new, but reiterating and amalgamating various wisdons for our generation. Read them with an open mind.
Posted by funkright on April 11, 2008 at 1:43 pm | permalink |
Last year, I came across a school called the Starkey International Institute for Household Management. It's in Denver (http://www.starkeyintl.com/). The school trains butlers and other private service personnel to help manage complex households. I really considered borrowing the money (a small fortune for 8 weeks), getting some nice suits (mine do not fit), and going for it. Apparently there is real folding money to be had out there from taking care of someone's home. It's a major industry in the area I live in–Rumson in Monmouth County, NJ.
I wish I could have done it, actually, but I was not at all sure about my disposition. I envy anyone with the disposition to do that work, and also am impressed when you can come up with the money to pay someone to do that work.
Posted by Kenneth Wolman on April 11, 2008 at 1:56 pm | permalink |
I must add a couple of extra thoughts. Years ago I was good friends with a woman whose life was pure clutter. She and her husband had no children but he was a traveling computer consultant, so was away a lot of the time. Her comment to me, facing the inevitable clutter, was "I need a wife." Every woman I've repeated that to, including the one I live with, has nodded in agreement.
Now the nasty questions. Are men incapable of caring for children and managing a household? Are they unwilling to do so? Is some code of masculine honor at stake? In 1982 my then-wife spent two or three days in the hospital. I became Mr. Mom. We had two kids, five and two years old. Those days were a nightmare. I called my wife one evening after I finally got the boys settled in. I had poured myself an 8-ounce tumbler of cheap scotch. I put on the Met Opera production of "La Boheme." I whined into the phone "When are you coming home? I had no idea of what you did all day!" She almost fell out of her hospital bed laughing.
I know a man now who is Mr. Mom. He's getting $80K a year disability for PTSD after he saw people flipping out of windows onto the pavement at the Trade Center on 9/11. His wife makes more than that. He loves being a househusband.
Posted by Kenneth Wolman on April 11, 2008 at 2:06 pm | permalink |
Penelope,
This post has CHANGED my life.
Honestly, I thought I was CRAZY or just broken and not at all with it. HOW are all these women around me flying to Japan (and they have small kids) – doing doing doing alllllll the time.
I TRY so friggin hard to manage the decent corporate job I have – and it is by no means a powerjob – and try to give the kids enough time – and try to manage the house – and maintain the cars and garden and run the moms group and and and and YES – I too, need a stay at home mom!!
BRILLIANT for bringing this up and out into the open. Hats off to you for having to take all this crappy criticism, as well. YOU GO GIRL!
The most important thing to take away from all of this is that individually we need to find the right pieces to put in place, over time, to make our lives work. And guess what – as soon as we make progress and it starts going better – the landscape changes again. It is a total process to finding out what works in EACH person's life.
BEST POST YET!
Posted by Darlene on April 11, 2008 at 2:07 pm | permalink |
Another wonderful post – attested to by the HUGE number of comments! I LOVE that you are hiring the support that you need to make life less stressful for EVERYONE in your family – this is an amazing accomplishment, perhaps better than many of the rewards of corporate life.
I don't have children, and I don't want them, for some of the reasons stated above – I KNOW I cannot be supermom/wife/worker. The work I've chosen in the non-profit world is important to me, but not lucrative enough to hire the help I would need to find balance as a parent and person. As an INTJ, I know that I need time to re-charge my batteries!
BRAVO for sharing your life, and how you do it, with all of us!
Posted by Jenn S. on April 11, 2008 at 2:18 pm | permalink |
Excellent post and I can only say what others have said. If you were a man posting this, it would be a non issue. Outsourcing work (home or personal) would just be a matter of fact. I love your post and am sending it on to a bunch of my friends who don't read your blog.
Keep up the excellent writing, you keep us on our toes.
Posted by mair on April 11, 2008 at 2:29 pm | permalink |
Okay Penelope lots of great points within this Blog but, are you kidding me? Running a household and being a stay at home Parent is a demanding job but come on, a house manager??? In addition to a nanny??? Most of us that sold our soul to the Devil known as Corporate America would trade it for a second. I hate to get sexist here but I'm going to just for a few minutes. I'm getting tired of hearing how hard it is being a stay at home mom boo hoo. Being a stay at home parent is a choice that most of us would jump on in a second if we had the means.
When my wife became pregnant with our son, we made a choice. One of us would be a stay at home parent. Not only did I volunteer for this job, it made financial sense to do so since she was bringing home 65% of our household income. But, my wife wanted to be a stay at home mom even though she was further along in her career then I was. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate what she does more then anything in the world and you are correct on the point that it creates an advantage for me in my career. That being said, lets really take a look at why people think it's so damn much work.
I blame it on Spoiling our children. How did our parents with 5 kids pull this off with a fraction of the money? It's simple, most of us born before 1980 were expected to pull our own weight (within reason and in proportion to our age). We had chores. Not bogus ones, like you see today, we actually cleaned our room, took care of the garbage, mowed the lawn, we even helped our dad paint the house when it needed it. Then there is the part about taking your kids to this and that in the SUV that takes hours of your day. We walked to Football, Basketball and Baseball practice. We walked to Band and Guitar lessons. We had a choice to Ride the bus or walk to school that was about a 45 minute walk.
My only point here is that running a household is not the $100,000 task we make it out to be. We bring that on ourselves.
Last point, I promise. In support of what you are currently doing by having a house manager, we have to make a choice about anything we hire out and that choice is based on your income. As your income increases, you need to evaluate those things you do yourself. I can plant a tree myself in in about 3 hours if you count locating, digging, fertilizing, staking it. It costs about $100 to have it done. Simple math, if you can earn more then $100 dollars after tax in three hours, hire it out. If not, break out the shovel. Kudos to you if you have the financial means to have a 50k person doing what I think would be doable work, but I would rather put that 50k to an annual kick-ass vacation to regain my sanity.
Posted by Danny on April 11, 2008 at 3:03 pm | permalink |
I'm going to block your site from our home computer.
My wife is a SAHM. I pay all the bills, cook dinner after work, do dishes, give her nights & weekends off (she is free to do whatever she wants when I'm home from work so I can spend as much of my free time as I can with our son…he's growing so fast and my hours at work are stripping me of these precious moments) & give her funny money, but it's nowhere near your house manager rate.
If she sees this post, she may want a raise. That and the added bonus of reduced stress/responsibility.
Posted by Ken on April 11, 2008 at 3:13 pm | permalink |
Interesting quote from your March 20th post ("Don't Wait Until Retirement to Live the Good Life – Do It Now"):
Penelope Trunk: "Your job cannot be a stand-in for relationships and people who care about you."
Posted by Ken on April 11, 2008 at 3:57 pm | permalink |
Penelope doesn't exactly live in the real world. The vast majority of Americans do not make $50K and probably never will. I count my family fairly lucky that between my husband and I, we make more than $100K. Since I bring home about 70% of our income, becoming a stay at home mom is out of the question for me, and so is hiring a $50K house manager plus a nanny plus a cleaning service. While it would be great to have help with cleaning,errands, etc, for most people that just isn't realistic. Penelope seems to be more interested describing how wonderful it would be to be Penelope instead of real career issues.
Posted by Deb on April 11, 2008 at 4:10 pm | permalink |
Penelope, good choice!
I will not repeat what others have said about you doing the right thing. But I'll tell something nobody has said so far – about you possibly regretting your current choices later. NOT NECESSARILY :D
Both my parents worked full-time. When me or my brother were little and got sick often, my mother had to take some time off. She even ended up quitting her job for a few years to take care of us. All while staying home she was dreaming of the day to go back to work – she loved her job so much and missed it a lot. Both of us were in daycare on days we weren't sick, by the way :) She did house cleaning and cooking. Luckily, in our country (not US) nobody would even think that there is something wrong with having kids in daycare when you work at home or at work.
Anyways, back to my POINT:
My mom is in her fifties now. When she looks at her life, you know what she regrets the most? What do you think? Not spending more time with her children? HA! Nope. Not having help from anybody to watch over her kids in order to advance further in her career. She had gone pretty far in her career, by the way. But I'm sure she would've achieved more had she hired a nanny ;)
BONUS POINT:
I, her child, totally understand, support and love my career-driven mom. I've been happy because SHE was happy. For those who yell "do what makes your kids happy, not what makes you happy": kids cannot be happy if their parents aren't. If Penelope is happy, her kids probably will be just fine :)
Salute, Penelope!
Posted by hardworking_single_mom on April 11, 2008 at 4:18 pm | permalink |
I wanted to add a comment about what "mair" had posted: "I blame it on Spoiling our children." I wholeheartedly agree with that. I'm not trying to toot my own horn here, but we have our kids help out A LOT around our house, and we couldn't function with out their help, unless we paid someone else (what am I going to do when they go to college?? Pay someone else to do it!) What's wrong with having the kids do a little work while they live at home?? Our children (2 boys, 14 & 11) have had a working mommie & daddy all their lives. They have been taught since they were quite young that they needed to "pull their weight." We have given them age-appropriate chores since they were old enough to walk, and now that they are older, they do quite a lot to help keep things running in the house while my hubby & I work. They do between an hour and an hour 1/2 per day of normal household stuff, which doesn't cut into much of their sports/friends/school life. They also get parents who are way less stressed out when they get home from work because we don't have to worry about a second shift every night, and we get to do mostly fun stuff on the weekends, because we aren't cleaning the house all weekend. It's only fair, we feel, that they do their bit to keep things running smoothly–we are a family and a team. We all do what we need to do. And my kids feel important and valued because of it (I also pay them, the 14 yo. gets $25 per week and the 11 yo. gets $20). We started them off with a salary that equaled their experience and ability–just like in the Real World, and they have gotten steady raises as they have been asked to take on more work and more responsibility. My husband and I really like how this has worked out, even though yes, the boys bitch about it sometimes and no, our house is not "Better Homes & Gardens." And my kids have told me that they sure notice how some of their friends are totally spoiled, have no chores (to speak of) but still get paid, and can't do anything for themselves (which, I have to admit, makes hubby & I feel just a slight bit of smugness–we are human after all :-))
Anyway, a little off topic, but I just wanted to put my 2 cents in.
Posted by Carol on April 11, 2008 at 5:11 pm | permalink |
I learned absolutely nothing from this post, in fact, I'm angered by it. I'm in my 20's, and currently in a job that's on the path to my dream job, but at a very very low level, which also means very low pay. I do everything I can – work overtime, take on extra projects, etc. But I still have an income that would probably be astoundingly low to most people. So what am I supposed to glean from this post? I should try to make a lot of money? Um, ok. From what I can tell, this post and Penelope's other writings is telling me that I should abandon what I *want* to do for a living, in order to find a job – any job – that will pay me a lot of money. Then, I should get married and have a baby as soon as possible, as Penelope wrote a few months ago, regardless of whether I want to or not. Then, after all of that, I should hire tons of people to hang out with and take care of said children, so that I don't have to.
If I listened to all of this advice from Penelope, I might be rich and married, but I'd also be unhappy. I'm going to stick to my low income job, which will hopefully lead to higher paying gigs (though I'll probably never make enough to pay a nanny, a maid, and a house manager), my boyfriend, who I love but don't necessarily want to marry and have kids with immediately, and do things on my own terms. And I'm going to go find blogs to read that are less conservative and single-tracked and more worthy of my time.
Penelope, I'd recommend thinking about the fact that, in this failing economy, there are all types of people out there who need career advice, and most of them can't even make $50,000 per year, let alone PAY someone $50,000 to work for them. Broaden your horizons, girl!
Posted by 20 something career girl on April 11, 2008 at 5:11 pm | permalink |
Finally a serious, fairly thoughtful post, albeit controversial I guess to some people. What is sad though is what this says about modern American society and the lack of support given to families by so-called "family values" politicians. And, as stated above by another commentator, domestic help is fairly common throughout the rest of the globe, only here in America is it considered a "luxury".
Some comments for the responders:
Richard-Forget about asking for more food money, ask for more sex.
Sarah-My, aren't we smug about chasing the people at the top who "make millions". Our atoms all end up back in the ground we came from so who cares? My wife and I make just under $200K a year combined but have those boring 9-5, home for dinner jobs, you so hilariously deride. Well guess what, we are the ones who can volunteer, and coach the sport teams and take off for three day weekends when we like and turn off the email/voicemail. With a lifestyle below our means we can save 20-30% of our salary, and with pensions, both retire long before Social Security kicks in (and with a paid-off early mortgage). So you keep chasing the other hamsters around the wealth wheel. I'll stay at my project manager level and enjoy my leisure/family time without worrying about my missing "millions".
Posted by Sidney on April 11, 2008 at 5:13 pm | permalink |
Not sure why it said my identity was hardworking_single_mom. No, I am a hardworking married mom.
Posted by Carol on April 11, 2008 at 5:15 pm | permalink |
"I know the first thing going through your mind is that I’m loaded" — uh, yeah. "But I’m not." Yes, you absolutely are loaded, in addition to being completely out of touch with reality.
Posted by Will on April 11, 2008 at 5:22 pm | permalink |
Thanks for this, Penelope. Women really need to stop apologizing for not being able to hold it all together. We are not meant to be SuperWoman – how can you be when you're juggling competing roles of mother, wife, employee, caregiver, friend, mentor, volunteer?
And anyone who chooses to outsource (and can afford it) deserves kudos for having the courage to finally prioritize and say "no" to the madness that comes from having a full menu of kids, jobs, and family. This frees up your mental and physical energy so that you can concentrate on whatever your focal point is – in this case, a career.
And this blog entry is not about making sure you make oodles of $$ so you can afford a house manager. It's about making choices with your life so that if you DO choose the high life, that you accept that you may have to sacrifice some of the personal things in your life to maintain your professional sanity.
For some, that might mean being childless. For others, it may mean they choose a lower income job to gain a higher quality of life to be caring for children or elderly parents.
Posted by Tammy L on April 11, 2008 at 5:27 pm | permalink |