Will everyone please shut up about the typos on blogs? Show me someone who is blogging every day and also complains about someone's typos. Just try. See? You can't. Because anyone who is trying to come up with fresh ideas, and convey them in an intelligent, organized way, on a daily basis, has way too many things on their plate to complain about other peoples' typos.
There is a new economy for writing. The focus has shifted toward taking risks with conversation and ideas, and away from hierarchical input (the editorial process) and perfection.
As the world of content and writing shifts, the spelling tyrants will be left behind. Here are five reasons why complaining about typos is totally stupid and outdated.
1. Spellchecker isn't perfect.
Everyone knows that Spellchecker misses some words. And everyone knows that sometimes we think we are making a stylistic choice when we have actually made a grammar error.
And anyway, it's nearly impossible for us to catch the errors that Spellchecker misses. If it were tenable to proofread one's own stuff, then there would never have been a copy editor to begin with. And there is research to show that if the first and last letter of a word are correct then our brain adjusts for all the letters in between. (My personal favorite of all Spellchecker problems: form and from. Try it—there are so many cases when both words will get past Spellchecker.)
So don't bitch to me that I should use Spellchecker.
2. Spelling has nothing to do with intelligence.
Usually the person who is bitching about spelling errors also has to make some comment about how the blogger in question is a moron—but you might want to rethink the idea that a spelling error is a sign of incompetence.
Many people with dyslexia are very smart. Most kids who win spelling bees have many signs of Asperger's syndrome (see the documentary on this, which I love). This means that many amazing spellers actually have brains that are developing intellectual skills (in this case, spelling skills) at the expense of social skills.
So people who have spelling problems might be super intelligent with great social skills—if you'd just take the time to notice.
3. You don't have unlimited time, so spend it on ideas, not hyphens.
I am extremely knowledgeable about grammar. I can parse any sentence. I can sign the preposition song in my sleep. So I feel fine telling you that there are great writers who don't know grammar.
Real grammarians, by the way, have memorized the AP Stylebook. Newspapers and magazines have people who are paid to enforce these rules. There is no way a blogger could hire for this, and few bloggers can justify spending the years it takes to memorize The AP Stylebook. So you could spend your life reading the AP Stylebook, or you could spend your life spouting ideas.
So what if your ideas have hyphens in the wrong places and you turn an adverb into a noun? People can almost always figure out what you're saying anyway, but they won't care enough to try without a great idea lurking there to attract their effort. And there's a reason that people who have amazing ideas get paid twenty times more than people who have amazing grammar: Ideas are worth a lot more to us.
4. Perfectionism is a disease.
If errors bother you a lot, consider that you might be a perfectionist, which is a disorder. Perfectionists are more likely to be depressed than other people because no amount of work seems like enough. They are more likely to be unhappy with their work because delegating is nearly impossible if you are a perfectionist. And they are more likely to have social problems because people mired in details cannot look up and notice the nuances of what matters to other people.
5. Use the comments section for what matters: Intelligent discourse.
The comments section of a blog is a place for people to exchange ideas. The best comments sections, of which I think mine is one, is full of smart, curious people who don't spend as much time finding perfect answers (are there any?) as finding good questions. The best comments sections are full of people helping each other to sharpen the questions we ask.
So blogging is not an homage to perfectionism but rather an homage to the art of being curious. And while old journalism was hell-bent on being Right and being The Authority, new journalism understands that news is a commodity and opinion-makers are the layer that goes on top of the news to make it resonate. So stop wasting your time in the comments section parsing grammar and start contributing to the discussion.









I do typos and am fine with it. I think people should be satisfied that we are taking the time out of our schedule to provide them with meaningful information and resources.
When I make a mistake, I typically get a comment, an email or a Facebook message telling me that I did. My mom actually patrols my blog on occasion and corrects it.
To me, although it might slightly impact your personal brand by doing typos, in the grand scheme of things, it's better to get the message across.
Posted by Dan Schawbel on 04/04/2008 at 09:38am | permalink | Reply to this comment
I won't bitch you that you need spellchecker, but why not an editor? Everyone is improved by an editor when they write, and it wouldn't cost you much. This is your livelihood, and as you're always telling us, it's worth investing in that a little.
No matter how much you tell us it is outdated, people will still be distracted by errors. Their reading of your piece will stumble, their focus and attention will be lost to you. Yes, they'll understand your point, but it'll have been a little jolted. Writing to be read is like composing music, and good writing should really flow. This isn't about judgement, it's about whether you detract from your point with distracting flaws.
(Just as an FYI, my RSS reader shows up the corrected versions when it updates feeds as 'edited' versions of the original, so your posts turn up with red words with lines through them, etc. It doesn't look very professional)
* * * * * * *
Hi. An editor is really different than a proofreader. I have an editor, and I send a draft of just about every post to him before I publish. The editor is not there to check spelling (although invariably, he does). He is there to tell me things like "this post is not useful" or "this post is boring". This sort of editor seems very important for a blog, but to be honest, it's expensive.
–Penelope
Posted by sarah on 04/04/2008 at 09:41am | permalink | Reply to this comment
I agree with Sarah here. Yes, Penelope is right that an Editor is not a proofreader. As Sarah says, everyone is improved by an Editor when they write.
Posted by Manashree on 05/20/2009 at 06:31am | permalink | Reply to this comment
This post really speaks to me because I recently got hit by the spelling police lurkers at Brazen Careerist. The comments section of my article from BC is way different than the comments we receive at http://www.newlycorporate.com where the article was first published. I don't mind getting the complaint it makes me aware of areas of opportunity.
I agree with your points but I expect to see some harsh criticism in the comments section later in the day from the people who are critical of spelling. A lot of the critics happen to seem quite smart and can defend their positions very passionately.
Round 1.
Posted by Jennifer Robinson on 04/04/2008 at 09:43am | permalink | Reply to this comment
This is sort of funny!
@ Dan Schawbel:
"I do typos and am fine with it. I think people should be satisfied that we are taking the time out of our schedule to provide them with meaningful information and resources."
And we are taking time out of our schedule to read what you provide and comment on it. The least a blogger can do is ensure that the product they are providing is of high quality. After all, there are advertisements on many blogs, and bloggers are making money off of the time and effort that readers put into their blog.
Is it too much to ask for the blogger to use some high-school level editing techniques before clicking the post button? It only takes maybe 120 seconds to read a post back-to-front to catch spelling errors.
Am I a perfectionist? Hell no, I make errors on my blog. But I try hard not to, and I am apologetic about it, not shameless.
Since in this case, Penelope is a professional writer, she should consider the services of an editor to simply be part of the cost of doing business.
Posted by Adrian L on 04/04/2008 at 09:50am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Did I detect a slight shift of focus away from the typo-er to the typo-complainer? I agree that complaining about other peoples typos is "outdated" (without actually agreeing that it was ever "in"). I don't agree that striving to eliminate them, particularly in public or professional writing, is outdated.
I can overlook typos, but not advice from a career blogger who says they don't matter.
Posted by Randy on 04/04/2008 at 09:54am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Actually, even funnier is the title of the previous post on this blog, as it is exceedingly relevant:
"Start-up skill: Find people who compensate for your weakness"
Says it all, if you ask me. Hire an editor, or be prepared for those who use your service to comment on its quality.
Posted by Adrian L on 04/04/2008 at 09:54am | permalink | Reply to this comment
You're turning this into a network of blogs, right? Once you have an economy of scale working in your favor, wouldn't it make sense to hire a proofreader?
As far as ideas over hyphens; in theory, I agree with you. In practice, I think this article:
http://alistapart.com/articles/designisinthedetails
is a little more on the nose. Yes, the idea is the most important thing. Unfortunately, people do fixate on little details, and you aren't going to change the human nature of your readers with an impassioned plea to ignore the little problems.
Posted by Andrew on 04/04/2008 at 09:56am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Andrew Jackson used to opine that he had no use for a person that could spell a word only one way.
Posted by Jim D'Amico on 04/04/2008 at 10:02am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Typos are distracting. I am making my way through a post when I trip. If I am enjoying myself—i.e. if the post is otherwise well crafted and the errors are rare—it won't be a big deal.
If, though, there are typos upon typos (or if the writing is just plain crappy), I *will* make a judgement about the poster's intellegence and attention to detail.
Amanda
Posted by Amanda on 04/04/2008 at 10:03am | permalink | Reply to this comment
I agree completely that it is a wonderful thing that we are moving away from (form?) some of the stuffiness that used to surround the craft toward more experimental and improvisational writing.
That being said, there is nothing wrong with sounding sophisticated and using proper spelling and grammar to complement (and compliment?) our earth-shattering ideas. That's a common courtesy we should be extending to our readers. If they take the time to read our ideas, we ought to respect them enough to take a few moments (that's all it takes!) after we have composed our frenzied posts to re-read them and make sure they are legible.
Posted by Menachem Wecker on 04/04/2008 at 10:08am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Penelope,
I don't disagree with what you're saying.
However, there are a number of blogs I read where the lack of any attention whatsoever to spelling and grammar is so distracting to the reader that it dramatically decreases the value of the otherwise interesting ideas.
Certainly spending a lot of time complaining about individual typos in other people's writing isn't a great use of anyone's time. That being said, plenty of bloggers could do themselves a great favor by taking a few minutes before hitting the "Post" button to review and clean up their work (and maybe read a few Style Manuals when they have a chance).
Posted by Aaron on 04/04/2008 at 10:09am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Good points here, Penelope. I know of a blogger who's terrible at the their/they're/there distinction, but his ideas are great and that's why I read him. He doesn't apologize for his mistakes in grammar, either. He calls it 'no look' blogging, like a no look pass in basketball. He writes the ideas in a clear, thought-provoking manner and then clicks publish. That's it.
Posted by Sam Davidson on 04/04/2008 at 10:09am | permalink | Reply to this comment
The era of the editor is fading away. I used to retain a full-time Harvard grad for polishing my analyst work; Maggie always improved my clarity and style. Did I use the semi correctly?
But, in this new era of self edited content, we have to concede Pirsig's position from Zen and the Art, "Grammar is itsy bitsy rules for itsy bitsy people."
I used to pay Maggie about 25 per page which totaled around 1500 a month -can't afford that anymore. Sometimes I will have her or someone like her polish a high touch piece.
Also, industry writing for the tech sector that is composed strictly to Strunk and White standards comes out sounding and looking like it is from another planet.
Posted by Alan Wilensky on 04/04/2008 at 10:17am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Writing is the vehicle that conveys your ideas on the blog. The better the writing the better the delivery of the ideas. Poor spelling, poor grammar and poor choice of words can make the reader question not only the ideas, but the person generating them. Simply having a colleague proofread your post could eliminate many errors.
Posted by Paul Roundy on 04/04/2008 at 10:18am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Okay, its funny that this is your topic today because I was just getting ready to write a post myself about how important it is to make sure you don't have typos in your resume and cover letter, because I got a cover letter this morning from a 20-year marketing executive with so many mistakes it's ridiculous. Yes, blogs are different, they are more stream of consciousness, but still a professional example of your writing and you need to be careful. But in resumes, NO. The old rules still apply. As a recruiter, I consider myself to be the last line of defense between a writer and an employer, so I don't mind as much if I find the typos, but if I send a resume to an employer with typos in it, then I look like an idiot. It does still matter.
* * * * * *
I actually think that a few typos in a resume are fine. It's too hard to not have typos if you're customizing your resume to every job. And, it takes such insanely careful proofreading to catch typos in your own resume, that maybe an error-free resume is a sign that someone is an obsessive-compulsive and not a good hire. Just a thought.
Here's more on the topic of typos on resumes:
http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2006/10/03/you-sent-your-resume-with-a-typo-get-over-it/
-Penelope
Posted by Jenny on 04/04/2008 at 10:28am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Come on people, lets get some perceptive here. These are blogs, and as much as we want to think our blogs are a huge deal, in the end they are online journals. Often people sit down and take a couple hours, if that, to write a post. They go content first, if we have some extra time, maybe some more attention to grammar and whatnot. If you are so easily distracted by errors maybe you should stick to the classic BOOK. There are plenty out there, and for the most part, error free.
Posted by BrandonA on 04/04/2008 at 10:28am | permalink | Reply to this comment
I think I slightly disagree with what you said. I write on a blog, and I *do* care about typos.
At the same time I know that typos happen. So what to do? Personally, I apply to yard sticks.
#1 Keep it polite.
If I find a spelling mistake in an article that really truly bothers me, I let the author know via e-mail. There's no point in having a spelling or grammar discussion in the comments section.
#2 Keep it proportional.
The occasional mistake happens. E.g. your article above probably contains one or two spelling mistakes. That's not a problem at all, because it's still readable. I wouldn't even bother sending an e-mail if I found one – the article is well-written, and perfectly readable.
On the flip side, there are plenty of articles on the Internet that read more like the result of a cat vomiting on the keyboard. Not to mention plenty of places that don't bother with capitalization, punctuation, and paragraphs. These are insults to the reader – they make it harder to actually get to the content. I'd recommend simply ignoring those sites, though. If a writer doesn't care, no amount of complaining will fix that.
Which leaves only the occasional glaring misspelling as a candidate for an e-mail. If I think it would reflect badly on the author *and* I care about the author, I'll actually write one.
On the other hand, seeing as I write about half an article in a simple comment, I just don't have time for a lot of that ;)
Posted by Robert 'Groby' Blum on 04/04/2008 at 10:34am | permalink | Reply to this comment
You had a typo!
I can sign the preposition song in my sleep.
I think you meant 'sing'- jk
Otherwise I agree with what you say.
Posted by dz on 04/04/2008 at 10:42am | permalink | Reply to this comment
I don't complain when a blogger has a typo here or there.
I do complain when my local newspaper (or the New York Times) has a typo. Especially when it's in the headline. . . .
Posted by TheOtherOne on 04/04/2008 at 10:44am | permalink | Reply to this comment
I use to get annoyed with spelling errors and typos until I started making them on my own blog. So people who are obsessed with spelling should start a blog and write in it at least four times a week. You will start getting over it.
And I completely agree that perfectionism is a disease. The other thing I think is very bad about perfectionism is it has a horrible impact on the person's self-esteem. Whenever I meet people who are obsessed with their grades or anything else in their lives I think about how depressed the person must be.
Posted by Monica on 04/04/2008 at 10:54am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Focusing on ideas is important. However we must write well enough (technically) so our typos aren't a distraction to others. WE can't throw up some gibberish and claim our ideas are good.
Goes back to your "strategy v. tactics" post a couple months ago.
Posted by Genuine Chris Johnson on 04/04/2008 at 10:56am | permalink | Reply to this comment
All excuses to institutionalize mediocrity.
If you can't take five minutes to look over your writing, or CARE enough to take five minutes to look over your writing, what does that really say about the writer?
I'll tell you what it says – "good enough".
Bring this attitude to the workplace and we are all in a lot of trouble. If the blog world is your workplace, even more trouble.
Posted by Steve on 04/04/2008 at 11:15am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Steve, thank you. Penelope's blog is insulting. What the hell kind of career advice is that? Forget quality, don't work hard, it's okay to be lazy? Wow Penelope, what next, it's okay to steal from your employer? Come in late and surf the Internet all day? Take long lunches? I can imagine your next blog: "Deadlines: So Overrated."
Steve, what further galls me is that it took this long through the comments to find your extremely reasonable refutation. Sad.
Everyone: For the record, laziness and indifference are not valued in the workplace. Ever. Quality and pride over a job well done are concepts that will never go out of fashion.
Posted by Tom Byron on 04/16/2009 at 12:21pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I totally agree with Tom Byron. Thanks for your post.
Posted by Manashree on 2009-05-20 06:33:39 | (Comments wont nest below this level)
I would argue that a person who can justify tooth-whitening as a method to manage appearances even though she doesn't think it's personally important should consider typos in a similar light. They are the yellow on the smile of a blog.
Now, having yellow teeth may be a natural part of being human (as a coffee-drinker, I sure do understand that). But, P says that yellow teeth are something which are noticed by a significant and potentially influential portion of the audience, and as such encourages her audience to actively manage this part of one's image. As a cost of doing business.
Now for my stuffy rant:
Spelling and grammar are like anything else…a discipline which in the practicing, can provide structure for growth of awareness, and ideas too. You don't have to like iambic pentameter or punctuation rules, but just writing unpunctuated free verse isn't going to make you e.e. cummings.
Posted by JenFlex on 04/04/2008 at 11:20am | permalink | Reply to this comment
I care about typos…but on my blog. I try not to make them at all but they slip through. I never rely on spell-check because I make up words – kidding!
I stopped being a d*ck about spellings by others after I'd made the mother of all spelling errors. I'd sent out an email to a bunch of people about checking my copy for spelling…and I'd misspelled 'misspell'!
Posted by Emon on 04/04/2008 at 11:30am | permalink | Reply to this comment
So, usually in this blogging kingdom around here what Trunk says goes, which is kind of sad. Typos are not *okay*, they're mistakes, which is usually okay.
I didn't like the way she began in saying "There is a new economy for writing. The focus has shifted toward taking risks with conversation and ideas, and away from hierarchical input (the editorial process) and perfection." Because that is acceptance of plain laziness. That's like saying in 5 years it'll be okay if everyone uses email like "txt msgng". Already the next generation coming out of school now is crap enough at writing, so please let us not say that typos should start to be the norm.
That's not to say I am a spelling basher. I'm not at all. I was going to ignore P's typo in writing sign not sing (but she may have done that to induce commenting). But because P is always the first step forward (and lets admit, she is) I don’t think it is fair to those who take particular care that suddenly it's okay when there’s less editing. Mistakes are still distracting.
Apologies for any mistakes in this comment. Lay off it!
* * * * * *
This is why I disagree with the idea that lazy is an issue here. Lazy would require a decrease in energy. But I am talking about a shift in energy — away from things that used to matter (perfection) to things that use to not matter (the opinions and rants of the writer overriding objectivity). It takes just as much energy to form and convey opinions than it does to have perfect presentation.
Actually, though, I can't believe I'm even engaging in a discussion about whether a whole generation is lazy. When, ever, in the history of the world, has a whole generation been judged to be lazy in hindsight? Never.
-Penelope
Posted by t h rive on 04/04/2008 at 11:35am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Penelope -
I agree with you…You spend time putting together an interesting, creative take on something for people to read, and instead they pick it apart because it says "sign" instead of "sing." (Although I was thinking that maybe you are signing the song…Not impossible!)
For my part, I'd rather see more GOOD blogs than more PERFECT blogs. I learned from my first boss:
"The perfect is the enemy of the good." In my mind, this mantra applies to most topics, although NOT resumes and not anything that I write for my clients!
Blogs, however, are just that – blogs. Bloggers are not performing brain surgery. An error in a blog is not going to have dire consequences for the reader. Bloggers (even with a large readership) should NOT need to hire editors.
I like your style and creative license with certain grammatical techniques. It makes the blog more conversational, direct and interesting to read.
The fact is, success can breed contempt. When you are good at something, a lot of people want to knock you down a peg or two…To me, this is more about them than it is about you.
For when every word does count, I blogged on error-free resumes, and included a tip for using Word's spell check to help catch certain easy to mistake words – think manger/manager:
http://keppiecareers.wordpress.com/2007/12/26/error-free-resumes/
Blog on!
Miriam Salpeter
Posted by Miriam Salpeter on 04/04/2008 at 11:39am | permalink | Reply to this comment
I can live with the typos; I'll call it even if you never mention your foot fungus or anal sex again. Deal?
Posted by Kenneth on 04/04/2008 at 11:44am | permalink | Reply to this comment
"And there is research to show that if the first and last letter of a word are correct then our brain adjusts for all the letters in between."
Actually, the research shows that the effect of internal mixing is highly variable (some jumbled sentences are all but unreadable), and that even with "easy" jumbled sentences, reading speed and comprehension are reduced.
Besides, typos can easily screw up the first or last letter of a word. Even if internal mixing caused no impediment, that wouldn't be an argument in favour of typos, because typos aren't restricted to internal letters.
"So people who have spelling problems might be super intelligent with great social skills—if you’d just take the time to notice."
For the most part, dyslexics–people with reduced reading/spelling ability but with otherwise normal intelligence–can be taught to read in the same way that people with reduced reading/spelling ability and somewhat subnormal performance. Remedial classes that are effective at teaching the stupid kids to read and write also work well with the dyslexics. Dyslexia is not a good excuse for being unable to read and write.
"You don’t have unlimited time, so spend it on ideas, not hyphens."
The premise that writing something that is both reasonably grammatical and properly spelled should take appreciably longer than writing something that is neither is a flawed one. It does not. If your ideas are worth disseminating, they're worth disseminating in a form that is clear and accurate; proper spelling and grammar improve both clarity and accuracy.
"Perfectionism is a disease."
Armchair diagnoses of diseases are a scourge.
Imperfection makes doctors prescribe the wrong drugs, it makes cars drive into each other, it makes planes fall out of the sky, it makes software crash. There is nothing wrong with aspiring to do things correctly.
"Use the comments section for what matters: Intelligent discourse."
Effective discourse requires clear communication, and poor spelling and grammar detract from that.
Posted by DrPizza on 04/04/2008 at 11:47am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Go back to Chaucerian Middle English, and spelling was inconsistent as a matter of course.
I found this to illustrate: http://home.vicnet.net.au/~ozideas/spfree17c.htm
The best modern writers play with grammar and spelling, they don't let it shackle them. And they get things wrong too – because they know the important thing is to just get on with it….
As you say, it's *meaning* that matters. I stand with you on this to the bitter end.
…..
Having said all that, txt-spk will triumph over English over my smouldering corpse.
Posted by Mikeachim on 04/04/2008 at 11:48am | permalink | Reply to this comment
I disagree big time. I think people can make too big of a deal out of typos, for sure, but I'd never say typos are no big deal. It's a sign that someone is either not educated or doesn't care enough about the audience to give a typo-free article. Professionals don't have typos; amateurs do. There's a big difference between memorizing the AP Stylebook and making sure that the words you write are spelled correctly and things are punctuated in a way that makes sense. Besides, don't you think that IM and text messaging are eroding our language enough? Should we just lower all our standards?
Also, while I'm on my soapbox ;), I also think that even "on topic" blog comments – the "discussion" – can be meaningless. Some are just for pure self-promotion – "I'll just write some fluff, and provide a link back to my own blog." Others are just arguing for the sake of arguing. I guess what I'm getting at is that ideally, whether we're talking typos or "discussion," the comments should be of some value.
Posted by Jeff on 04/04/2008 at 11:49am | permalink | Reply to this comment
@Kenneth: ditto!
@JenFlex: Great point. If you care enough to whiten your teeth, shouldn't you care enough about editing?
On another note, why in the world do people have to get all uppity about grammar/spelling mistakes? There is no reason to be less than civil to other people. Just because you're hiding behind a computer screen and miles of cables, that does not mean that you can be rude and degrading to another human being for a grammar/spelling mistake. Grow up.
Posted by xgravity23 on 04/04/2008 at 11:56am | permalink | Reply to this comment
"An editor is really different than a proofreader. I have an editor, and I send a draft of just about every post to him before I publish. The editor is not there to check spelling (although invariably, he does)"
That's semantics and not answering the point. Editor, proofreader, copy editor, you can call them what you like and indeed we call ourselves any of those throughout many fields. The point was that someone who checks your spelling and grammar is a worthwhile investment.
Posted by sarah on 04/04/2008 at 12:16pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Typos are inevitable in most blogs because the very nature of blogging is very ephemeral and of the moment. If you want to post about something as it's happening, there will be a few typos. I do think those typos, however, should be minor if you're a clear communicator. Good writers have a sense of how things should flow and a sense of proper grammar, even if there are still typos. I don't mind typos but I won't read blogs where someone cannot clearly express a point. Those are two different things, though.
I'm a writer and an editor. I'm a writer first. I can write as fast as I think and it comes very easy to me. The only thing in my life that does, actually. Editing is new to me and it's my day job. I've found that, in the grand scheme of things, I just don't care about when I need to use an en dash as opposed to an em dash. But now I know the difference and that's great. By editing other people's work and working with editors who know so much more than me, my writing has improved. Editors do such important work. I now realize that all of the writers I love are not lone geniuses but have really brilliant editors. When I write something for work and get it back from my editor, it's always so much better than what I could do alone and I love that.
Posted by Joselle Palacios on 04/04/2008 at 12:28pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Lazy is not the point, I shouldn't have brought up lazy because it distracted you. The point is that typos are still mitsakes. I fancy myself a freestyle writer, I sacrifice some grammar for the point of fun, sometimes. But the purposeful is the point, not the un-caring of quality.
Posted by t h rive on 04/04/2008 at 12:32pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I think this is another area greatly affected by the generational view. Good grammar will matter to boomers, somewhat to Xers, and less so for Yers. So as in many other areas of writing, the rule is "know your audience."
In a similar veign, switch modes of work based on the media in which you are working. Concentrate on the big picture/ideas over perfection in blogs, but take care of the details in presentations, proposals, and especially resumes.
If your gramatical error annoys a grammar nazi in your blog, it won't hurt you much. But if the HR specialist filtering your resume is a grammarian contrarian, it could hurt your prospects.
I often wonder at the amount of wasted energy expended by people who seem to *want* to be annoyed, waiting for the slightest trigger to set them off. Grammar is one of those triggers. My message to them is to get over it … or find that their peers and competitors are running circles around them.
Posted by Rupert on 04/04/2008 at 12:35pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Sarah,
Penelope's right. Editors are different than copyeditors or proofreaders. (And copyeditors and proofreaders are also different from each other.) In general, the main focus of an editor is content, whereas that of a copyeditor is that of consistency… and a proofreader's focus is typos, typesetting, etc.
I'm in that field, so of course I think all that work is highly important. (*cough*) However, what many people who point out "grammar" mistakes fail to realize is that they're usually pointing out a style issue, not necessarily a hard and fast grammar rule. AP isn't the only style guide. There's Chicago, MLA, APA, and quite a few others.
Because, as of the moment, I've really yet to see someone accuse another poster on a board: "That was a misplaced modifier. You are a MORON."
Posted by F.Y. on 04/04/2008 at 12:39pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
As a former spelling bee contestant and third-place winner circa 1983 (I misspelled "anthropology"), I have to speak up as someone who thinks spelling and grammar does matter. Typos are just plain distracting. Can I admit that when I send a text message I even spell out whole words? It's a giant pet peeve of mine to write "R U" for "Are you" etc.
When I see typos, I don't think the writer is unintelligent, I just think the writer wasn't that careful. And of course I make typos too sometimes when I'm moving too quickly or doing too many things at once. Also, I do not have Asperger's syndrome, I'm not a perfectionist, nor did my intellectual skills develop at the expense of my social skills.
Posted by Jennie on 04/04/2008 at 12:50pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
It seems like everyone is looking at this as black or white, when really it's gray. I regularly read blogs for many different, and I find some that are full of mistakes, and others that are near mistake free (like this one). With too many mistakes, the post does lose credibility; to me that shows a lack of attention to detail. I think the point is this – no one can always be perfect and typo-free. No one wants typos, but they happen. So long as the post isn't riddled with errors, just think to your "oh, that shouldn've been from instead of form" and move on.
PS: As someone in their mid 20s, I take great exception to anyone labeling my generation as lazy or making generalizations about poor skills (e.g. writing). Don't generalize an entire population – it will invariably be wrong.
Posted by Walter on 04/04/2008 at 01:03pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
As a newbie to blogging, I tend to disagree with you. Myself and a friend (who is also a blogger and has been blogging for several years now) were actually having a conversation about typos last night and we both felt that if someone let us know that there was a typo in our blog we'd be thankful. Your blog is about work and life and how we relate the two, right? Then why can we not be perfectionists in our blogs, do our typos not represent how we do business as well as our personal lives? Should we not as humans be always striving for perfection, surely this is what we should be telling our kids…
Posted by Neil Pursey on 04/04/2008 at 01:06pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
P.:
I've been reading your blog with interest for some time now, but this post — which at its root is an excuse for mispelled words — is nonsense.
How can you write about career development and professionalism without making correct spelling, not to mention grammar and style, a priority of some sort?
I am senior writer for a regional daily newspaper; everyday typos, no matter how much attention one pays, get through to print. No one and no organization is perfect, obviously, but a little effort toward polished work never hurt. It especially never hurt those who bill themselves as professional writers.
I'm with you on numerous issues, but on this one, you're off base. More annoying than those who point out the typos of others are those who dismiss proper spelling as unimportant. More over, the value of spelling shouldn't vary upon the medium; whether one is writing for a blog or a print publication, proper spelling is proper spelling.
I've read your posts on multi-tasking and know where you stand on the subject. Still, an editor who doesn't proofread? Come on.
And FYI: You don't have to memorize the AP Stylebook, but you can reference it, and the dictionary, every once in a while.
Posted by Bárbara on 04/04/2008 at 01:38pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I think it's definitely worthwhile to parse this issue generationally…it is rather piquant that this self-professed gen-x'er is expressing impatience with getting hung up on typos. That said, I used to be very tight with my grip on typos, grammar, etc., but have since realized there is a margin of error that is best accepted.
What people seem to fear is not that an article is 95% grammatical and correct, but an article that is 92%, 85%, 75%…then the beauty of words can be really lost. I think you earn more valor points for working within the rules with the realization that it's that much more challenging.
Now that the majority of my reading is done online, I do notice that my "gut grammar" skills are slipping…I can never remember when to use single or double quotes! So I understand why people wring their hands, while also understanding that the wringing doesn't amount to much when we live in a world where information comes at a constant gush (for example, in two days, most of these comments will be pretty much obsolete for all intents and purposes). Some people want to put themselves in front of that fire hose and insist that it slow down for the sake of protocol—good luck to 'em.
All this said, is the de-emphasis on rules maybe why blogs will never be considered 'literature' in the traditional sense? (There's them quotes again!)
Posted by Andrea on 04/04/2008 at 01:41pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
As a blogger, you are producing writing to communicate ideas to people. Your reputation is based not only on the ideas you have, but your facility in communicating them.
If all the vowels were removed from this sentence, you could still understand it. Does that mean it isn't important to put vowels in your words?
I regularly read your posts. If they were illiterate, I would stop. Why? Because the polish in your writing is an indicator of how much care has gone into it. And I have no interest in the unconsidered opinion of a stranger.
Posted by Jason on 04/04/2008 at 01:47pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Werd! ;-)
Posted by Scott Williamson on 04/04/2008 at 01:58pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Are you aware sometimes typos are intentional to help identify if people are copying your work or ideas without acknowledgment? You are really on a roll with your last two posts. The never know what's going to be in the next paragraph Penelope. Glad to have you back. Must be breathing deeper and more relaxed. Do you keep any thoughts private?
Posted by Don B. on 04/04/2008 at 02:01pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Yes, attention to detail is so yesterday.
I guess, too, caring about your product–whatever that is–is a bit passe as well.
Posted by Tim2 on 04/04/2008 at 02:24pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
My wife teaches first grade and told me recently of a parent who was totally bonkers because their child missed some spelling words.
We were talking about it over dinner and my wife explained how, from an educator's standpoint, spelling is relatively low on the priorities.
Of course we should all put out as well-crafted posts as we can, but the occasional typo is just not that big a deal.
Good heavens!
Posted by Andertoons on 04/04/2008 at 02:32pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Paul Orfalea the founder of Kinkos had Dyslexia and most ADDers have it.
Posted by c h on 04/04/2008 at 02:32pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
My grandfather (may he rest in peace) always said, "If someone comes into your house and bends over far enough to scrutinize the trim, kick em in the ass while they're bending over". This statement really holds true for a lot of things. I often find that when people criticize the work of others they are trying to make themselves feel better about their work; but in turn, could not do any better under the same circumstances.
Posted by Matt Bingham on 04/04/2008 at 02:46pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I think a half of the premise of your post is right and the other half is wrong. I believe anyone who writes anything ought to strive for the absence of spelling and grammar mistakes; however, unless you are their boss, if you correct someone's spelling or grammar, you look like a petty asshole.
Posted by Casey on 04/04/2008 at 02:56pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Your timing on this post could not have been better. While I should have been excited that your team thought my latest post was interesting enough to be on the home page of Brazen Careerist and that I had 5 comments in my inbox this morning as a result of that post, instead I was kicking myself over a typo I didn't catch before I posted it on my blog.
I re-read everything twice before I post it, but there's an occasional word jumble or punctuation mark that evades me. One that I usually catch immediately after posting my thoughts, which is of course too late for the RSS feed. And then it winds up posted on your site with a typo.
I'm clearly dwelling on the wrong details of the experience.
Posted by zak on 04/04/2008 at 03:10pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
What a long and pompous praising of the trivial ignorance.
If a person wasn't capable to study hard enough to learn language sufficiently, why should anyone consider his knowledge and opinion on other questions valuable and mature enough? Correct spelling makes a good pre-screening; if you are considering whether you should invest time into reading something long, overlook it for errors – if you spot spelling errors immediately, just spend your time elsewhere. Good that you write correctly yourself, otherwise I'd just ignore the whole post as a nonsense.
If a person doesn't care that his broken spelling makes his posts harder to read, this means that he doesn't care of the readers' comfort. Why should a reader bother bursting through the broken ciphers then? It will be a lack of self-respect to read something what is not intended for you.
And by the way, don't you know that the ideas worth NOTHING? Their realization is what worths. Everyone has a lot of great ideas; only ones who do the boring part of putting them to life gain millions. And for just sharing an idea, the idea realization is its text. Having it incorrect means having it realized poorly.
Stop making excuses with the politically correct "dyslexia" and "ADD" bullshit – most people are not dyslexic or ADDed, they are just ignorant, and should just learn harder rather than be considered medically doomed. Dyslexia is heavily farfetched to quieten the parents about their child lazyness.
Finally: don't be such a troll posting such controversial stuff in the hope of temporary traffic increase, it won't increase the regular readers base. Trolling is outdated. And don't feed the ignorants either – favouring the ignorance weakens the mankind.
Posted by Michael on 04/04/2008 at 03:33pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
And a little metaphor for the final: correctly written text is like a good cooked dish – it is more easy and effective to consume. Mistakes in writing and cooking just distract you from the chief task of reading and eating. Being a gourmet, you just cannot accept the fast food, even if it also provides nutrients; your self-respect just won't let you inefficiently waste your time on undereating. And thank new haven, in 21st century there is always a lot of other food to choose from.
Posted by Michael on 04/04/2008 at 03:54pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
What Kenneth said. ;)
Posted by Devin Reams on 04/04/2008 at 04:22pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
But Michael…
Your comment is full of mistakes, sir. Sounds like you had a lot to communicate and thought you could allocate time/energy away from proofreading.
Posted by Andrea on 04/04/2008 at 04:23pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
When all is said and done, we are judged based upon our ideas. Distractions like typos matter only in the greater context of the audience as in,"Will this audience be so distracted by typos that the gist of my message will be lost or that I will lose credibility.
In a forum of english teachers, one situation applies, among engineering students, another takes precedence.
It all depends on context.
Posted by Dale on 04/04/2008 at 04:27pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Sorry Andrea; I have to admit that the time I spent to learn English wast just a tiny fraction of the time I spent to learn my native language. I am really sorry if the mistakes in my comment made it hard for you to read; but still hating the ignorance and ignorance connivance nevertheless, I really appreciate if you show me the mistakes in my comment.
Posted by Michael on 04/04/2008 at 04:36pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
@FY If you pop over to the website my name links to, you'll notice that I'm in that field too, and have been for almost a decade. I'm in the journal and science side, rather than the book publishing side, and both I and everyone I have ever worked with in that capacity has always been an 'editor'. And the point remains, P. was indulging in semantics to sidestep the point.
Posted by sarah on 04/04/2008 at 04:50pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
@ Joselle: As another writer first and editor second, I couldn't agree more. Every part of your life and experience contributes to your writing ability.
I would agree with P. if the post were "typos happen; fix and move on," or even if it was just a call for civility in commenting on this topic. What I can't buy into is the notion that typos are beneath notice, or that people who notice them are somehow fools.
Things **matter**. Isn't that the point of being any kind of blogger or writer?
Posted by JenFlex on 04/04/2008 at 05:01pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I agree with every single thing you said.
Posted by GenerationXpert on 04/04/2008 at 05:15pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Perfectionism is a disease. I have it. It's nasty sometimes, but it helps with the grades. Poor consolation I know.
Spell-checker still has a place, and that place is in academic writing, or anything that is published on paper. You still need to have proof reading because things can get really out of hand if you don't. For instance, a cell phone carrier prints brochures for their stores and then after they're all printed and shipped send a follow-up note that says, oops, we put the wrong price on one of the features there, you'll have to ignore it.
In online writing, there's not time for perfection. I hate to say it, but it's true. I know my writing is never perfect. Some of us are still going to notice typo's though. It's a fact of life which some of us can't escape.
Posted by Michael Henreckson on 04/04/2008 at 05:30pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I'll skip any commenting on spelling and grammar and go straight to the last paragraph. I totally agree with your statement – "And while old journalism was hell-bent on being Right and being The Authority, new journalism understands that news is a commodity and opinion-makers are the layer that goes on top of the news to make it resonate." I used to get the local newspaper delivered seven days a week until the end of last year. The local newspaper news coverage is more comprehensive and complete than the local TV news or any online site. However the newspaper or TV medium is a news source and does not serve in a direct way as a dialogue for the members of the community. There are some exceptions (e.g. – letters to the editor and a telephone call to a guest on TV) but nothing that comes close to publishing on the Internet and blogs in particular. I complain or make a comment while reading the newspaper or watching TV and get no feedback. I do the same thing in a blog comment section and who knows – someone may be actually reading my comment and comment back!
Posted by Mark W. on 04/04/2008 at 05:39pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I have the same attitude in general, but I would observe that you never know what typos are going to get in the way of your ideas. It can be arrogant to assume that people should have understood what you 'really' meant. When I start to get slopy, it's a slippery slope to arrogance which becomes boring to readers. I'm walking and typing on a phone now, so excuse ny typos.
Posted by Dave Atkins on 04/04/2008 at 05:51pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Haullayluyuh!
I think P's point was that we not COMMENT on typos.
Unless of course, she is paying you to be her personal spell checker.
Posted by Stretch Mark Mama on 04/04/2008 at 05:56pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Can you really "sign the preposition song in my sleep"? Or is that a typo? lol
I must admit I take people VERY LITERALLY, and am amazed at how frequently a couple of transposed characters in a word can totally change the meaning of a thought entirely.
Posted by John Lacey on 04/04/2008 at 06:27pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Did I see someone say that typos in a resume are okay? You have got to be kidding me. If you don't care about your resume, you don't deserve the job. I am a copyeditor and proofreader, and I believe good grammar is always important. Read copyblogger.com. If blogging is your job, approach it professionally. I wouldn't point out errors on someone's blog unless it's factually incorrect or really distracting from the message, but if you really don't care to even try, I don't really care to read your blog.
Posted by Shellynn on 04/04/2008 at 07:25pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Hey, I was a good speller in elementary school. Does that mean I've got a disease? It would explain some things, certainly.
Posted by Recruiting Animal on 04/04/2008 at 08:30pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Okay. I got about two screens down and came across the following:
"If, though, there are typos upon typos (or if the writing is just plain crappy), I *will* make a judgement about the poster’s intellegence and attention to detail."
That was the second time I had seen the word 'judgment' misspelled, and I don't know what I'm supposed to think about the commenter's intelligence. (Not 'intellegence'.)
At this point I haven't read the rest of the comments, so forgive me if you guys have covered this. But here's where I think I stand:
I can live with a few typos here and there — that means you're tired, you're thinking too fast or your fingers just slipped. I'm a multiple offender myself, reformed only by those squiggly red lines that, blessedly, have now worked their way into the last two versions of Adobe InDesign.
I think misspellings are different, and I think spell-check often knows the difference. I know there are a lot of fine writers who can't spell worth a damn, so I'm working on not flinching when I come across a doozy ('artical' instead of 'article').
But I do think the dictionary is a little like the AP Style Book — I'll grant Penelope that a writer doesn't need to have the thing memorized. But it sure would be nice for us readers to know you've cracked its covers once or twice.
Posted by Mary Baum on 04/04/2008 at 09:34pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
People actually use SpellChecker? I prefer to keep a pocket dictionary in, well, my back pocket for those days I'm not sure of a word.
Typos are one thing; grammar is another.
I understand if you (and other bloggers) get frustrated when people point out typos. Accidents happen! Like you said, you're dumping a stream of thoughts & ideas.
If a wrod (<–on purpose, but I don't know why) is misspelled here and there, it's because you're trying to convey the message vs. offer a grammatical lesson. Brainstorming is not a thinking exercise, it's just a brain dump.
In general, I can deal with a few typos.
What I can't handle are significant grammatical errors:
there/their/they're, apostrophe placements (is'nt), your/you're, ownership issues (it's, its), etc…
Those errors make me question a person's intellect. Typos interrupt the flow; egregious grammar is the killer.
Posted by Huck Finn on 04/04/2008 at 09:38pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
If people dislike typos and judge you on them, wouldn't it be wise to minimize it? It's as if you wore a bikini to a job interview and said, "I can't believe these idiots think my bikini is unprofessional! Get with it, you idiots!" If you want to appear professional to the public, you do what the public thinks is professional. For myself, if people can't even get their spelling or punctuation right, I wonder what other more important details they might be lax about.
Posted by Martha on 04/04/2008 at 10:36pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Two points:
1. I'll often send e-mail to bloggers when I notice typos, and most are grateful and correct them immediately. I in turn appreciate it when someone points out one of mine out to me. Hopefully I don't make too many. I think using comments to complain about typos is somewhat tacky.
2. This discussion, especially the part about resumes, reminds me of a post from Seth Godin just today:
http://sethgodin.typepad.com/seths_blog/2008/04/little-scraps.html
Posted by Jeri Dansky on 04/04/2008 at 10:50pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I'm tired and I'll probably make a lot of errors right now, but I'll try anyway.
I think it depends on what type of blog you have. I am in a profession where correct spelling matters. My blog is about my profession, so I think I need to pay attention to that or my readers will not take me seriously.
I blog every day as well and it takes a lot of time and effort, but I do read my post over a few times to make sure there are no spelling errors.
I do agree with you that the comment section is not the place for a discussion on typos (except of course in this case because that was your topic). If I did have typos in my post I would not be offended if someone pointed that out in a private e-mail and not on a public comment board.
I think your point was that it "shouldn't" matter, but I think it really does. Especially in a blog when the written word is all we are using to communicate with.
Maybe it's my generation, but spelling does matter to me. Can't help it.
Patricia
Posted by Patricia Robb on 04/05/2008 at 12:51am | permalink | Reply to this comment
I loved your post. I think people are missing the point here. You're not saying that one should not proofread or care about making mistakes, but if one is missed by chance in a “blog”, which can happen to anyone, a reader shouldn't get anal and point it out as if you committed the holiest of errors. How many of your readers write a blog? Do they realize the how hard it is to come up with ideas day in and day out and then the time which is involved to write it? How you have children to take care of, how you are going through a divorce, how you are trying to start a business venture? Who has time to knit pick and worry over an accidentally misspelled word, on a blog no less?
I don’t understand some of your readers. They put you down because you mention foot fungus, for discussing your divorce, for saying a typo now and then shouldn’t be a big deal, etc. Yet they somehow keep coming back to read your posts. Which proves your point that content is what is most important. We should always strive to do the best job possible, I don’t think you are disagreeing with that, but nobody is perfect. And when writing a blog ceases to be fun because so many people want to pick it to death, what blogger will want to deal with that negativity anymore?
Posted by Debra K on 04/05/2008 at 01:27am | permalink | Reply to this comment
If someone was rude to you, Penelope, then that's wrong. But why criticize someone trying to help you?
I deeply appreciate well written English, be it in books, newspapers, or blogs. Saying that the presence of errors in the latter should no longer be important doesn't sit well with me. And what example does it give to students, many of whom can barely construct a sentence at at the best of times?
Posted by Robert W. on 04/05/2008 at 01:36am | permalink | Reply to this comment
I'm loving this entry. I'm a blogger and of course, typos slip through the cracks all the time. when you're writing 10 hours a day, you start to get over your perfectionism (ok not completely). When I'm writing for magazines and newspapers typos are no big deal – but when I'm working for online mags or blogs – they rarely put my writing through fact check and copy editors so I'm way more conscious of my shortcomings (not that that stops them from leaking out anyway) What helped me let go of if somewhat – was years ago I dated a guy who was a much more successful writer than myself. He and his friends were sort of THE big deals in the business then (and still are really). I told him that I was a sh*#ty speller and that my comma usage was tragic. He told me that none of the good writers he knew, including himself, could spell. For whatever reason that made a huge difference to me. He's since won an Academy award and an Emmy for best writing, and I doubt he stays up at night worrying about typos.
Thanks for another great post.
ps: When it comes to resumes and cover letters – I do believe that typos of any kind are unacceptable. There's so much competition that when I have been doing the hiring, my first pass has always been to toss anything with errors. Then I go back through the very few that are left and start looking at qualifications…
Posted by hallie on 04/05/2008 at 10:31am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Penelope,
You are doing a real disservice if you are telling young people entering the job market not to worry about spelling mistakes on a cover letter or resume. When we hire I usually get 15 resumes a day & will eliminate any that don't take time to check their spelling. I know for a fact I am not the only one who can't stand it when someone misspells my name (Neal or Niel instead of Neil) & it is little things like this that may short circuit a career. Like it or not you do not look intelligent when you make spelling or grammar mistakes which reduces your credibility.
You made some good points in this post about perfectionists, dislexia and the fact that some of the people with the best personal/sales skills can't spell worth a lick (my wife if one of these) I know some of the best salespeople in our company that spell worse than that guy from Flowers for Algernon but perception is reality & it is imporant to look intelligent in your writing.
Posted by Neil C. on 04/05/2008 at 11:43am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Great post. I think nit picking on typos on this type of thing gives some people a sense of superiority. They're not confident enough to take the risk and go out and blog something, and face the potential criticism of people. Instead they'll just sit on the sidelines and try to pick on others that do it. It's kinda like the guys who make fun of a friend for trying out for a spot on the football team. At least he had the courage to take the risk of failure, and he'll be a lot better for it than all the people on the side snickering.
Posted by Dale on 04/05/2008 at 12:02pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
In regard to the comment about "a few typos on a resume being OK", I think it may depend on the job. In some jobs, being obsessive-compulsive about details is a plus. For example, if I was looking at a resume for someone applying for a position to design machinery, I want someone who cares deeply about every little detail. Those details can make the difference between a good, safe, functioning piece of machinery and an expensive fiasco. Even small errors can result in expensive rework and delays. I've checked over the work of people who didn't think details were critical – "fiasco" is a kind word for it. I ended up working several 16-hour days to get things "more or less" fixed – I say "more or less" because some of the fixes were done in less than ideal ways, but were the shortest route from disaster to acceptable results.
So I guess the best way to summarize my point is that if someone is going for a job where they know details are critical, they should proofread and proofread and have a friend proofread so that they can demonstrate that they can get details right. If the job is not one where details are so critical, then they need to consider how much time to spend on checking materials. A little bit, to make sure there are no egregious errors, is a big plus; a large amount, in quest of a minor grammatical mistake that most people would never notice, may not be a productive use of time.
Posted by Diane on 04/05/2008 at 12:56pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I always make grammatical mistakes while blogging…. sometimes I notice them while reading my post after I publish it (which I always do), and I go back in and edit and fix them.
However, where I tend not to go back and fix errors is mainly in comments I leave on other people's blogs…. because there's usually not an 'edit' button, so you just have to live with small errors – essentially y'all will know what I'm saying anyway.
The other thing is… unless you have somebody else proof read your stuff, you can't catch all the grammatical errors yourself, because like you said – there's research that shows that you can "there is research to show that if the first and last letter of a word are correct then our brain adjusts for all the letters in between." That's true and it's especially true of your own work, when you go back and read what you just wrote, you read what you know in your head you wrote, rather than what's actually there – so you may not catch from/form or sign/sing, etc. But somebody else coming in and reading your post for it is probably will. As blogger's we don't have time to get somebody to proofread, we're spilling out our ideas right now. So, typos and little errors will happen, its commonplace, but that's perfectly fine.
Posted by William Peregoy on 04/05/2008 at 01:11pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
It is fine to be sloppy if you are more of an idea rat (can't find the cartoon right now, alas) but in execution attention to detail is key…
Posted by Olivier on 04/05/2008 at 01:40pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Perfectionism is not only a disease, it is a misnomer. Perfectionist are not looking for perfection, they are looking for flaws. Imperfectionism is a more apt term, but perfectionists wouldn't like that, now would they?
Posted by Virginia on 04/05/2008 at 05:49pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
A literary friend sent me a link to this entry with the comment "… signs of the Apocalypse." But as soon as I read the first sentence, I knew you.
You were the girl who wrote the column on Yahoo Jobs saying it was so out-of-date to worry about typos on your resume. Then about 160 human resources professionals left comments on your article telling you how very, very wrong you were.
As you still don't seem to have gotten the message, let me make it a little more clear to you why someone who writes for a living might want to avoid spelling errors. Take this sentence from your post:
"I can sign the preposition song in my sleep."
I have no idea what you mean by this. Are you using sign language or singing? If you were someone who cared about spelling, I would guess the former. But since you don't care whether your writing is spelled correctly or not, it's pretty ambiguous.
Anyway, I-Love-Typos-Girl, you have certainly created a presence for yourself on the Internet. I hope this whole blog thing works out for you, because I am skeptical that an editor will ever hire you to write for pay. Life is too short to have to fix the foul-ups of someone who doesn't even care enough to try to do the job right the first time.
Posted by Carny Asada on 04/05/2008 at 06:07pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
This post ties neatly into the one last year, in which you said that it doesn't matter that journalists misquote people all the time, since it's all narrative and everyone "has their own truth."
Precisely what *does*, matter, Penelope? That you have a new website that reads like the op-ed pages of a third-tier college newspaper?
Posted by Sir Loin of Beef on 04/05/2008 at 09:21pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Penelope,
I hope, for your sake, that the attorneys and paralegals preparing your divorce agreement have the "disease" of perfectionism.
Posted by tampabookbuzz on 04/05/2008 at 10:56pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I am okay with typos on personal blogs, because I am no saint myself. I do hold it against them when the writer clearly can't differentiate you're vs. your, their vs. there. But professional blogs, i.e. people who write for business, it's best not to leave typos!
I wrote a blog once that was featured in an industry blog network of my field and I had a typo in the title itself! I thought I was going to die when I got an email telling me that.
Posted by cindy*staged4more on 04/05/2008 at 11:43pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
"All excuses to institutionalize mediocrity.
If you can’t take five minutes to look over your writing, or CARE enough to take five minutes to look over your writing, what does that really say about the writer?
I’ll tell you what it says – “good enough”.
Bring this attitude to the workplace and we are all in a lot of trouble. If the blog world is your workplace, even more trouble."
I second this statement. It is sad that some young, impressionable people may visit this blog and take your misguided opinions to heart. This blog was a waste of time. Do you realize what it was? It was an overly long defense (and a poor one at that) for your lack of detail. I can't speak for anyone else, but typos here and there will happen. How you handle it is a different story. You say it's not important, but yet give a long, bullshit "defense". Certain people may not care anymore, but there are a lot of people out there, like me, who do.
You have poor time management, Penelope. If you can't take five minutes to proofread your blog and use tools out there such as a dictionary, thesaurus, or an AP Stylebook, we are in trouble!
Here's the problem with Gen Y: it's the further dumbing down of America. They don't care about anything, not just about spelling and grammar. Truly, they are mediocre just like you.
Posted by Rachael on 04/06/2008 at 10:45am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Whether you like it or not, typos hurt your credibility. Then again, the relevance of credibility in the blogging age is questionable. And THAT would be an interesting topic to hear your thoughts on.
Posted by rebecca on 04/06/2008 at 11:19am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Talk about not seeing the forest for the trees! I thought the point of the post was for people to stop using the comments section to point out and complain about typos in the actual post. And a nice little pat on the head to all who employed typos to make their argument. Not to worry–we won't think less of you.
Posted by melanie on 04/06/2008 at 02:20pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Traditional publishing companies have never expected authors to be good at spelling. When you are into the concepts the details just get in the way. However, the job of proof reader has not gone by the wayside yet. No one should ever proof read their own work, instead its best to give it to a friend to look over, not just for spelling but for overall tone and quality of writing.
Posted by leslie on 04/06/2008 at 02:32pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Mama always said, "It's ok to let other people be wrong sometimes".
Posted by HR Wench on 04/06/2008 at 03:28pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I agree with the idea of accepting typos. I am a believer in the value of content over display. As a mediocre speller myself, I do not always want to take time away from other tasks to scrutinize my spelling. Spellchecker is good enough in my book, although as mentioned it does have its imperfections, but hey, so do the rest of us.
Posted by Jessie on 04/06/2008 at 08:43pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Even if typos do not hurt your credibility, you should still consider fact-checking your assertions. For example, it is not true that only the first and last letters of a word must be correct for readability. A simple internal reversal makes words hard to read:
A slpmie ianretnl rasrevel mekas wdros hrad to raed.
To stay more on topic, I think that the occasional typo or spelling error is understandable. However, it seems to me that it is one thing to make a small mistake like a typo – and quite another to state that it is simply not worth your time to bother with clear communication. I think some people believe that the former implies the latter.
Posted by Chris on 04/07/2008 at 12:05am | permalink | Reply to this comment
“In the airline industry, if passengers see coffee stains on the food tray, they assume the engine maintenance isn’t done right.” – Don Burr, former CEO of People Express Airlines (Perception IS Reality)
"In the blogosphere, if readers see typographical errors in posts, they assume the thinking behind the blog is flawed too." — The Unknown Reader
Posted by The Unknown Reader on 04/07/2008 at 12:21am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Hi Penelope. I couldn't agree with you more here. I too blog 5 days a week and spend a lot of time on my blog and I have never ever gone on any other person's blog to point out a tiny mistake. I simply do not have the time. I am also surprised by some people who seem to want to comment on blogs not to add to the discussion but to point out errors and that too in a rude way. I don't have an editor or even a proofreader, I do it all on my own and make zero money from my blog. I am a perfectionist about certain things…mainly I try hard not to bore my readers! But about typos, well I make them but people try to make me feel as I am an idiot. Luckily I don't :) as I am perfectly aware that there are enough brilliant people in this world who are average at grammar and there are enough people totally bereft of ideas and creativity who are good at grammar. In fact there are some people who make posts on their own blog simply to criticize another's writing! This reveals their own petty mindset and reveals their lack of ideas.
Posted by Nita on 04/07/2008 at 12:50am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Last summer I took a Dale Carnegie course in communications. During an exercise, a fellow participant was using a flipchart to illustrate his talk. When he flipped from one sheet to the next, the turned page was slightly askew. The instructor stopped him and asked him to fix it, saying, "I know it's a small thing, but people will be staring at it and not listening to what you're saying." He was right. That skewed page was distracting me, although I didn't consciously think about it. Typos are like that.
Posted by Steve on 04/07/2008 at 01:23am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Jeez, Penelope, what about you brings out the haters? I was gonna talk about "sign/sing" too, but after what Carny Asada said it would be mean for me to pile on. And what Sir Loin of Beef says – why so mean, why is he here? (hmm — both meat-based puns — I wonder if they're the same person?)
Posted by Noumenon on 04/07/2008 at 01:56am | permalink | Reply to this comment
"And there is research to show that if the first and last letter of a word are correct then our brain adjusts for all the letters in between."
Excerpt from cited research link:
"This is clearly wrong. For instance, compare the following three sentences:
1) A vheclie epxledod at a plocie cehckipont near the UN haduqertares in Bagahdd on Mnoday kilinlg the bmober and an Irqai polcie offceir
2) Big ccunoil tax ineesacrs tihs yaer hvae seezueqd the inmcoes of mnay pneosenirs
3) A dootcr has aimttded the magltheuansr of a tageene ceacnr pintaet who deid aetfr a hatospil durg blendur
…The first and last letters have stayed in the same place and all the other letters have been moved. However, I suspect that your experience is the same as mine, which is that the texts get progressively more difficult to read."
Posted by Alonzo Turing on 04/07/2008 at 08:23am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Perhaps you need to clarify what you mean my "writing" as this covers quite a wide range of communications. There's blogging, business communications (including proposals, resumes, press releases, etc), and personal communications. Put me in the "no typos" group for #2. I set blogging into its own category, as they may be either business or personal. I don't expect perfection in a blog, although I set a higher standard for bloggers who aim to write as their occupation.
I also think it's interesting, as Patricia pointed out, that there may be a generational aspect to this. As a Gen X'er, I see myself required to fit into the world around me. That is, a world where spelling and grammar are at least nominally important. I think you're espousing a Gen Y philosophy that seeks to change to world to suit your needs. (Yes, I'm aware that you're technically Gen X, but from what I can tell you identify more with Gen Y.) Thus, from a Gen Y perspective, spelling and grammar should be flexible so as to suit your purposes and if anyone has a problem with it, that only exposes their own prejudices and biases.
But until the world becomes predominantly Gen Y, the rules for business communication remain inflexible.
Posted by tinyhands on 04/07/2008 at 10:57am | permalink | Reply to this comment
If these typos were to go uncorrected, soon we could have a good part of the population without the ability to spell. I think it's fundamental to check for these errors if we would like to preserve the English language. Yes, even in a blog!
A person who keeps reading the misspelled word "beleive" may at one point start using that incorrect version of the word "believe". I think it has an almost viral effect, especially in these circumstances – such as a blog.
And to the author, I am 24 years old, and by no means a traditionalist.
Posted by Daniel Botelho on 04/07/2008 at 11:16am | permalink | Reply to this comment
The problem when one sees a typo is that it generates an impression – unfair or not – that the writer is sloppy with detail. Even if the piece of writing is well thought out and well written, the typo is the black spot on the white tuxedo. And most of us are preconditioned to look at the negative. As writers, many of us tend to bristle a bit after we write something we believe to be brilliant, only to have someone call us out on a typo or breaking some obscure rule of grammar. I have seen this happen too many times. Unfortunately, it’s these seemingly little things that can hurt your credibility. What makes it worse today in the work world is the increased focus employers place on communications skills, so if you have a good resume that contains a typo, you’ve already cast a negative impression. While typoz happyn ( :-) ), just make sure they don’t happen on your resume or cover letter. Don’t just proofread by using a spell checker; proofread it yourself and have a trusted friend or family member proofread it too!
Posted by Rick on 04/07/2008 at 12:24pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Sorry Penelope, I can't agree with you on this one.
I see a similar school of thought in classical music wherein some musicians say it's okay to play a few wrong notes as long as you express the music with feeling etc. etc. Well, every musician occaisionally plays a wrong or out of tune note, but if s/he plays too many all you hear are the imperfections. Usually the people that champion this school of thought are the people that don't have the technique to play the music properly in the first place. I don't think this applies to you as respects spelling, punctuation or grammar, and I understand that you don't have a copy editor, but a little care should be taken to try and make your blogs as letter perfect as possible.
Posted by John Goodman on 04/07/2008 at 12:45pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
First, let me say that I really enjoy your blog, which I recommend to all my boomer colleagues who are tearing their (remaining) hair out over inter-generational issues in the workplace.
Regarding blog writing, most of us can get the meaning despite the thumb-grammar . . . unless our minds truly are sent on an unproductive trip by the words.
As an example, I'll point to the comment (above) by Blum:
"You had a typo!
I can sign the preposition song in my sleep.
I think you meant ’sing’- jk
Otherwise I agree with what you say."
Glad he clarified it for me. I thought you had learned about prepositions via ASL. Hmmmmm
Mal
Posted by Mal Watlington on 04/07/2008 at 12:46pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I think it is interesting that this post generated so many comments! (I would have thought it would have been for that last post – lol). Clearly people care about the subject no matter what side they are on. I have found it very interesting since writing and editing is a big part of my job and I am a reformed perfectionist. I say reformed because I agree in part with Penelope, being perfect is rarely needed, and thankfully, I have slowly learned that lesson (with age comes wisdom!). So I agree with many people, a few typos or mistakes every once a while is no big deal. I still have a problem with the no typos in a resume – especially since the ones I see are supposed to be from people who want to write for a living! We need to lighten up and I have to remind myself of that daily. And noting things like that in the comments of a blog, especially rudely, is really juvenile. I thought Matt Bingham's and Casey's comments were funny and on the money.
Posted by Maria H on 04/07/2008 at 01:37pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
i agree with your idea "Writing without typos is totally outdated".
i especially liked the third reason "You don’t have unlimited time, so spend it on ideas, not hyphens." i totally agree with what you are saying. I came here from Japan, and i used to care about my grammer at first, but i began to think "i have to know the minimum grammer or punctuation to tell people what i want to say, but it's not the most important thing. I want to take more time thinking about different things, not grammer." and now, i don't care about my grammer mistake that much. I'm almost never afraid of making English mistakes now. and I believe im communication with people much better than before.
Lastly, i read your blog for the first time today, and i really enjoyed reading it. it made me think a lot of things!
Posted by Asumi on 04/07/2008 at 01:43pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Good spelling with punctuation reflect one's commitment to competence.
I agree with your five points about the typos on blogs, focusing on ideas is the most important!
Posted by Biodun on 04/07/2008 at 02:09pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
This is so true! I have received comments that refer to my spelling and word choice rather than my ideas…I always want to hit "delete", even though I know as a good blogger I must respond. I don't have all day to respond though to that kind of thing so I try to focus more on what you refer to as the Intelligent conversation posts.
Thanks for the great post!
Posted by Kristina Summers on 04/07/2008 at 02:50pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Typos are outdated only if you don't mind readers stumbling and being distracted away from what you're trying to say. If you want your writing to make the fullest impact, it's worth making the effort to get it right.
Posted by Nigel Gray Bannish on 04/07/2008 at 04:55pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
In honor of this topic, I will make my entry without spell check (forgive me). Great point from the perspective of saying spelling is not directly tied to intellegence. I have had trouble with spelling my whole life and Spell check was what allowd me to be taken seriously inthe business world.
However, as with all areas of business, there are limits. I can easily forgive mistakes when I see that it is something that snuck by spell check. That being said, when I receive an email or read a blog post that is an absolute train reck, I have a tough time taking the author seriously. It only takes a second to hit the spell check and get it up to an acceptable level with minimal errors.
Being a terrible speller, I love the idea and your point but as you can see from from this post I have just typed, I tend to make alot of typo's. I think the important part is to know your limits. My spelling sucks and I know this, therefore, to be taken seriously I use spell check and at least give some effort towards accuracy. My advice is to be careful not to post a train reck that makes you sould like an idot.
Danny
P.S. I just spell checked the above and see at least 10 errors. I left them for your entertainment. Also, we learn a quick lesson. If we were not discussing this topic, I think it would be fair to not take me seriously after seeing all those errors.
P.S.S. How's the foot fungus comming along?
Posted by Danny on 04/07/2008 at 05:09pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I don't give a darn about spelling errors on blogs, especially if they are casual. If you're using a blog to generate business, that's a whole 'nother kettle of fish entirely.
I am Generation Y by birth — but honestly, it sucks the big one to be a part of this generation, if Penelope's generalizations are true. The peers who live in my town are generally lazy and insolent; many are lacking basic reading and math skills, to boot. We can blame the parents, the public schools, the general economic decline of my region, whatever.
Technology is no excuse, though many enjoy using it to justify why they can't add or read or write coherent sentences. Let's not begin accepting illiteracy in tandem with typos. The latter is fine, the former, shameful. We're already graduating too many illiterate children from American high schools each year.
Moving on here, I am a professional writer, and some of Penelope's writing is not good. I never notice the typos — after all, I'm not paid to be her copy editor. I DO notice, however, the far-fetched conclusions and unsupported ideas. There's a lot of generalizing about generations, too, and while I realize those "GenWhatever" words are big buzz words and compelling capital in a Pay-Per-Click blogosphere, there's really only so many generalizations you can make about any one group of people.
Then, there's this:
And while old journalism was hell-bent on being Right and being The Authority, new journalism understands that news is a commodity and opinion-makers are the layer that goes on top of the news to make it resonate.
The newspaper world needs no more inept "opinion-heads disguised as news professionals" than it already has. Why bother with journalism at all, when any incoherent idiot can have his or her own blog musing about marriage and children or Paris Hilton's toe hair? Instead of disseminating facts, let's share propaganda and pabulum! Ah, the dumbing-down of America! We're not content to do it merely at the K-12 level — let's make it a national pandemic!
Where do eye sign up? This is nothing short ov a total media revolution! After all, Throbbing Gristle's erstwhile frontman Genesis P'Orridge didn't need no stinkin' spelling rules! And neither do we. We're all rock-n-roll stars! Now, everyone, quit your day jobs and start throwing out ideas. They pay the billz!
Posted by J. Liz on 04/07/2008 at 05:15pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
i'me in Love!
Posted by Neuromancer on 04/07/2008 at 06:21pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Hm. This is interesting, because since part of my job is being an editor, I spend a lot of time doing this all day and am meticulous about copyediting all my posts before I post them – and after.
But it doesn't really matter to me when I see typos in other people's posts. What does bug me though, is blatant lack of grammar knowledge that some writers convey. To me, those are different. A misspelled word that slips through spellcheck or occasional mixup of a form/from that you point out is forgivable. But chronic mistakes like when people appear not to know how to use possessives correctly sometimes does more than simply bug me, but perhaps that's part of what goes with the territory of actually having at least parts of the AP Stylebook memorized.
That said, I think the freedom of being able to blog without fear of worrying too much about typos in general is a good emphasis. Quality writing should be sought after, but we all make mistakes, and some people definitely need to lighten up about them! So thanks for this.
Posted by Tiffany on 04/07/2008 at 08:49pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Hey, if Eye could make money blogging all ov the teyme, Eye would. If Eye could spell anything any way eye wanted to while blogging to make my money, it would be the greatest thing Eye'd ever do. Eye need a Generation Wheye? career. Eye'd also have a transvestite photo gallery on the blog.
Final bit of wisdom:
Sometimes people spell a thing a way. Sometimes they also spell another thing a way that is different than the way other people spell a thing.
Posted by J. Liz on 04/07/2008 at 09:20pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I am always amazed at the people who seem to take pleasure in finding a typo in my writing. If someone finds an aura of self worth in discovering typos, I suggest they read my blog often, as I write fast, and hope to not make mistakes….but I am not here to be perfect.
I get emails from people who love to show how superior they are to me. Yep, they win (cuz I did not know it was a spelling contest, so I am not playing the same game).
I would say that spelling and gramar ARE important, but to be so nuts about it is just silly.
I would rather convey my ideas to those who care and make a few spelling errors than to be overly self concerned and never share my thoughts at all.
Penelope…this is a great post. Thanks.
Posted by thom singer on 04/07/2008 at 09:39pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Yes, and getting a job is TOTALLY overrated.
This is bad advice. When it comes to resumes, typos matter. Maybe they shouldn't, but they do. Sorry.
Posted by Anthony Juliano on 04/07/2008 at 09:48pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
VERY interesting thread! Sometimes I think the typos are almost on-purpose. That sort of aggressive "I don't care what you think" attitude. Seems to be a lot more of this type of attitude here lately, or am I imagining things?
Posted by Flying Squirrel on 04/07/2008 at 11:45pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Penelope, your arguments were very interesting and creative. At the same time, typos and grammar mistakes do make things hard to read. It becomes a matter of credibility rather than nit-picking. Plus, attention to detail is also a huge thing in this web 2.0 world.
Posted by Clara Kuo on 04/07/2008 at 11:54pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I would like to chime in again here. To those who are the grammar police…YES, a TON of typos throughout a document is very bad.
But I do not think this is what Penelope is saying. I think she means the blog post (or other writing) that has the "you" instead of "your" (or other simple mistake that does not get caught by spellcheck) ome time from the author typing very fast.
Yes, as resume with tons of mistakes will keep you from getting a job. Proof and reproof, have others look at it, etc… Common sense here people.
But, when you see a mistake somewhere in someones writing that is random… do you jump all over it as if you have discovered a major flaw in this person? (YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE!) If yes, then you have some serious self grandiose issues that act themselves out through looking for ways to put others down.
There is a difference between a simple typo and someone being an intellectual runt.
I believe the point of this post was not about those who write, but instead about those who go nuts-o on people who make minor mistakes from time to time.
If you see this post as an absolute where she is saying that anyone cann missspelll enything they rite and that itz okey, then youz are the reel fool here.
Posted by thom singer on 04/08/2008 at 07:24am | permalink | Reply to this comment
If blogging is about ideas, then why are so many blogs about useless BS?
I would like to hereby associate the phrase "word-diharrea" with blogging, because that's what it is. (Some blogs are very good, but most are junk)
I like to read your blog because it is entertaining. Weather or not your posts are providing great ideas to ruminate on, I cannot say.
Posted by Brice on 04/08/2008 at 09:37am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Of course it's possible to blog well, consistently, and without stupid typographical errors. Not only is it possible — it's essential for professional service firm owners who are blogging for clients. And if you're looking for one who does blog daily and complains about typos — right here. Some of the blog posts I see from so-called gurus are nigh unto unreadable.
This is just silly.
Posted by Sheryl Sisk Schelin on 04/08/2008 at 03:11pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Penelope: I am all for ideas – as are probably most of your readers – but frankly, I was brought up with the belief that if something is worth doing, it is worth doing well. And I try to live to the difficult standard that defines for me every day, in every thing I do, including my blogging. As, I am sure, do many others here. Unlike your other critics, I leave behind a trail for those who wish to check on my antecedents.
However I do find it amusing that a post that says typographical errors and their critics are over-rated is followed by a post on why looks matter in a career. They are analogous in a way and that makes both the posts almost contrarian to each other. In the realm of ideas, that would be a difficult thing to explain, defend or indeed, sell.
Just my tuppence.
Posted by Shefaly on 04/08/2008 at 07:21pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Agreed! Blog comments should be about the content, not whether or not there are typos or grammar problems.
If someone thinks I am of lesser intelligence because of one or two typos, I probably wouldn't like that person anyway… Although I always try to be, nobody is perfect.
Here's to immperfection!
Posted by Crystal N on 04/08/2008 at 08:43pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Okay, I'll concede that typos are unimportant in a blog if you'll concede that the blog is unimportant and that respect for your readers is unimportant. Careless blogging shows a low esteem of your readers.
One habit that has become all too common over the past several decades is the practice of disparaging those who do things well in painstaking tasks. "They're borderline autistic," or, "They're obsessive-compulsive." It makes the slipshod workers feel good, but it shows a heap of disrespect for the people who are capable of being heart surgeons, aerospace engineers, or water-treatment-plant operators. (In the last case, a casual oversight in chlorine levels can give norovirus to 100,000 water users.)
Ask yourself whom you could better live without: a talking head on a newscast or the guy who fixed your car's brakes. The one you can't live without is likely a stickler for detail where people's lives depend on it.
Posted by Jim C on 04/09/2008 at 02:35pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Thank you for expressing what I've often thought! Give us bloggers a break, especially if we're posting once or twice a day! There is a difference between completely sloppy grammar and spelling versus a few honest mistakes that don't get picked up by spell check and commas that should or should not have been there.
Posted by Erik on 04/09/2008 at 09:58pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
>> 2. Spelling has nothing to do with intelligence.
Eh, sort of. I agree with the essence of your point here, but let's not forget one of the key principles of marketing:
Perception is Reality
Whiles its excusable to have a spelling error or typo every now and again, too much of that does give the perception that you are either unintelligent (even if its not true, perception is what matters) or that you are just not very detail-oriented. Neither is a particularly admirable trait!
(Note that I almost spelled admirable wrong – admireable – but my FireFox built-in spellchecker caught it!)
Posted by jon on 04/10/2008 at 06:10am | permalink | Reply to this comment
The new journalism. There is an editor-reader gap in news sites according to the Online Journalism Credibility Study released 4/8/08 by the Associated Press Managing Editors group and the Donald W. Reynolds Journalism Institute at the University of Missouri.
The AP article on this study can be found at http://apnews.myway.com/article/20080408/D8VTRUTG0.html
It's an interesting article. While the editors and readers agreed to the basic principals of journalism their ideas on how it should be implemented differed quite a bit.
Posted by Mark W. on 04/10/2008 at 07:17am | permalink | Reply to this comment
I can't take you seriously when you typo in a post about typos, though I can give you props for consistency.
I think the point is to strive for typo-free copy. But honestly, as a professional copy editor, I'm quite happy to follow slobs like yourself around with the grammar broom.
Thank you.
Posted by Jeff on 04/10/2008 at 03:15pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I think one should obviously make an effort to minimize typos, but if the majority of the text in a blog is correct (day after day), then I can probably sleep at night.
What drives me crazy is the total lack of correct, spelling, capitalization, proper grammar in business email.
My favorite is something like this (this is a real email that I received from the nursing home that a family member of mine resides in):
I apologize I ended up being out last week I will talk to our staff educator and let you know by the end of the day thanks Lisa
Is Lisa thanking herself? I also enjoy the total lack of punctuation.
Posted by Jeremy on 04/11/2008 at 02:20am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Are you rearry serios? I wood never read your blog poost if it had typos because it would distrack me so much from what you were trying to comunicate.
Get it?
Posted by Anshu on 04/13/2008 at 02:59am | permalink | Reply to this comment
great article, If I read your post correctly then you are basically stating that its ok to go ahead and make the common gramatical errors that are made by everyone and not to fret over how every little detail looks.
besides allowing others to see how you write permits people to make suggestions
Posted by Sean Davis on 04/14/2008 at 10:56am | permalink | Reply to this comment
If your home life gets outsourced for the sake of your your job (see posting on 50K per year "home manager"), doesn't your job deserve the same care and feeding ? Why not hire a proof reader for your blog.
Typos only detract from the message.
Posted by Nigel on 04/14/2008 at 10:15pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Printing out one’s own work makes previously invisible errors more visible.
And, you know, there’s a difference between an actual typo (“hte”) and using flatly the wrong word (commonly “loose” for “lose”).
Posted by Joe Clark on 04/16/2008 at 01:12am | permalink | Reply to this comment
I started to go through your post statement-by-misguided-statement, with the intention of delivering a point-by-point rebuttal of some of your points, but I ended up with about 30 paragraphs of text.
I will synthesize:
You are not cut out to be a writer (at least not a blogger). You're too thin-skinned, and seem to a be light on the skills and heavy on the excuses.
Perhaps a career in housewifery is in order. Best of luck, and don't forget to separate your whites and colors!
Posted by National Kato on 04/21/2008 at 07:29am | permalink | Reply to this comment
I actually find typos really amusing. For example, in the past I've had to read the New York Times and Wall Street Journal every single day for class. And those few times I'd find a typo, I thought to myself, "HA! I found something that big-shot editors didn't find!" Just a 0.2 second thought to break up my boredom.
I agree with you about typos in blogs. If I reread and reread and reread my blog entries for typos and such, I'd never have the time to post anything. Blogs are more like a conversation, and (almost) nobody speaks out loud perfectly.
Posted by Diana Freedman on 04/25/2008 at 10:39am | permalink | Reply to this comment
I just stumbled across an article in the New York Times (of all places) about writing without typos and grammar is totally outdated today for teenagers. The NYT article is at http://www.nytimes.com/2008
/04/25/education/25writing.html and the PEW Internet and American Life Project study is at http://pewinternet.org
/pdfs/PIP_Writing_Report_FINAL3.pdf
The article and the study speak for themselves. I think whomever is doing the writing has to look at their writing from the audience's perspective and the medium in which it is being published.
Posted by Mark W. on 04/26/2008 at 07:53am | permalink | Reply to this comment
I have to agree with you…like Marketing Guru Andrea Lee says — Completion Not Perfection. That being said I do think there is a line. A few typos — definitely forgivable. Ideas and the conversation matters more. Nothing but typos spells really sloppy and in my opinion detracts from your professionalism (that is if you're blogging for business purposes, if personal, that is up to you!).
Posted by Paula G on 05/02/2008 at 03:49pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
We all make typos now and then, but editing yourself shouldn't be difficult and too many typos and spelling errors are highly distracting for readers. Poor editing is typically a sign of poor verbal skills in general. Typos also occur more if you were drinking the night or weekend prior. ;-)
Posted by Max on 05/13/2008 at 05:58pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
What fun reading this.
My thoughts:
1) It isn't perfect and that's why it's perfectly OK to ask a friend to proofread your writing. Or write it and take a walk. Come back half an hour later and you'll see obvious mistakes you missed the first time.
2) Um, it does take a certain kind of intelligence to spell. Usually a fifth-grade one. And is this not what dictionaries are for?
3) I like this idea of Penelope. But there's no need to memorize any style guide unless you really like to. We should refer to style guides, not memorize them.
4) Do we not expect our doctors and teachers and scientists to be excellent at their jobs?
5) Point taken. It's rude pointing out someone's grammar in the comment section, and this is something I'm guilty of. I'll stop it, I promise.
Posted by Joy-Mari on 08/20/2008 at 09:58am | permalink | Reply to this comment
You sound bitter. And maybe I will too:
I have a difficult time taking a person seriously if this person isn't going to take the time to proofread what he or she has to say. Type-os happen, yes, but when a person haz a habet uv typin lyk dis den i cant teik em srsly. I really can't. It's like saying, "You're a moran!" And, really, that's what your post is implying is okay, even if you didn't start out saying that.
I appreciate when someone tells me in my own journal, "Oh, you misspelt this," or, "You have a type-o here," so I can go and edit it. I take about a half hour to an hour to edit my posts sometimes, and I will go back the next day, and MY blog is just a personal journal. Mixing up "form" and "from" is a pretty big deal. Again, it happens, but you should appreciate when a person tells you you've made a mistake, so you can correct it and get your point across properly.
By the way, diseases and disorders are two different things. Also, it might be easy for you to say, "Oh, get over your perfectionism," but it's not so easy to do. I have OCD, which comes with perfectionism, and I can tell you it's a right pain in the ass for me on my own, never mind with people like you who don't seem to try to understand another person's perspective. I don't know you, and maybe you're not really like that, but that's really what you're saying to me here. I have to fight this everyday, and then you come along like, "Oh, just get over it; you’re being stupid," like it's my fault in the first place, like I actually WANT to be like this.
Posted by aimomo on 09/04/2008 at 02:39am | permalink | Reply to this comment
1. No spellchecker is not perfect, but hopefully the writer knows what they are trying to say and should catch mistakes.
2. Correct, spelling has nothing to do with intelligence, but there are a lot of intelligent people that can not communicate. This is just a poor excuse.
3. Ideas are worthless unless people know what you mean. You said it yourself, MOST people can understand what you mean. What about the others?
4. Being a slob is a disease also. Again just an attempt at an excuse.
5. Don't blog if you don't want feedback.
Posted by Mike on 09/23/2008 at 07:32am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Spelling has nothing to do with intelligence? What's your IQ – 45?
Posted by Sune on 01/17/2009 at 01:29pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Time to grow up and get with the program. Sure, typos are not an indication of stupidity, but they are an indication of carelessness. And who wants to work with someone who doesn't pay attention to the details?
Maybe you can get away with sloppy writing and editing in your field, but you can't in mine.
Posted by Cynthia McCune on 10/03/2008 at 05:18pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
so is ti io cn hv my onw bolg??cool!!1 cos ny frenz rold me dat myt speelng suks,so i shldnt hv a bllg.tho i hv alot of idaes!!relly!thnaks al ot fort he blogpsit!
Posted by im tpyo on 01/10/2009 at 07:04am | permalink | Reply to this comment
What utter rubbish.
What you're saying is that people with inferior substandard intelligence such as yourself are in the majority. That's only too true. Even IQ organizations have of late loosened their entrance requirements. Simply put: the median population of the United States is approximately 10% dumber than ten years ago.
You're probably one of the reasons this has happened.
Evolution and Chuck Darwin don't give a hoot about your blogging needs. They care only about survival of the fittest. And that definitely ain't you, babe.
Posted by Sune on 01/17/2009 at 01:27pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
My Dear,
What you do so beautifully and powerfully and viscerally is COMMUNICATE. Yours is a rare gift I am grateful to have chanced upon.
Thank you.
Susan
Posted by Susan on 01/28/2009 at 07:28pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Resumes without typos are definitely important. Recently on "A Current Affair" (Australia) there was a segment on typos plus literacy in schools – which is apparently going down the plug hole here. A few bosses came on and said that when they receive resumes with typos they go straight in the bin. They don't even get a second look. They said it told them a lot about the person applying for the job. I think P's article (never been here before mind you) is an eye-opener – but mainly about her. How I found this page was actually by googling "how do you tell people their writing has typos?" because I'm facing such a situation. So all the comments make fascinating reading. Thank you all :-)
Posted by aussiegirl on 01/28/2009 at 11:21pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Oh and may I please make a comment on P's opening sentence: "Will everyone please shut up about the typos on blogs?". I find this extremely rude AND off-putting as an opener. Pretty sad really. There are people from all over the world reading your blog, including myself and I live in a little corner of Australia. Strange finding someone in your position and being rude like this and getting into my mind in my little house in my little corner of the world. My kids don't even say things like this to my face!
Posted by aussiegirl on 01/28/2009 at 11:25pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I don't understand how difficult it is for someone to type (spell, punctuate, etc.) properly while communicating. Laziness, and that's what this is all about, shouldn't be rewarded.
Posted by Paresh on 02/11/2009 at 04:53pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I find the whole thing a bit ridiculous. Who has time to get so serious about shortcuts people take when sending messages. Of course if it is business related you should be professional but otherwise, PLEASE give me a break.
Posted by Traci on 02/16/2009 at 04:42pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Everything you do, your mind determine your priority, your focus or your essential needs. For instance, you think an historian or a fiction writer going to focus on spelling and grammar,of course not, their focus is on the idea or strategy. Grammar, spelling are irrelevant; because they have somebody else do it.
Posted by Andrise on 02/17/2009 at 04:48pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Yes, I do admit I cannot stand it when people constantly point out my typos (I don't get too many of them) and really, is spelling errors here and there really that big of an issue? The most productive, successful bloggers (who make a living and are happy) do not waste time pointing out other people's spelling mistakes. It's a waste of time and money.
Posted by Suzie Harfnan on 03/20/2009 at 07:19am | permalink | Reply to this comment
God bless you. I am just now developing a blog, which I considered not writing. I'm an excellent teacher, speaker, and counselor, but writing is not my long suite. After years of admin work, letters, and college papers, I know that I am a terrible editor. My brain thinks globally. I can reread something 10 times and still miss the details. I agree that presentation is important, however, I'd hate to miss what might be great information simply because the person is a lousy editor. And when my primary focus isn't writing, does it make sense to pay an editor? Does it even fit with the feel of blogging to have something perfectly edited? Isn't part of our beauty in our flaws?
Posted by Rebecca Lincoln on 04/14/2009 at 01:21am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Thank you. Thank you. I am one of those who has typos on some blog posts (ok, maybe many) but has so much to do that I do not stress out on it anymore and just hit publish….
Posted by A Maui Blog on 04/14/2009 at 03:40am | permalink | Reply to this comment
it irks me to death when people email me to tell me i have a typo. get over it.
Posted by Natural on 04/14/2009 at 06:51am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Love this post. I love it not because I think typos are OK. (I cringe when I make one on one of my blogs, and my husband is always happy to point them out.)
But I agree with you that content is more important than an occasional typo — especially a typo that does nothing to change the meaning of something.
So I type "feelings" when I meant "feeling," and spell check doesn't catch it. So what. Sure, I'd love a copy editor to check all that — but that's not viable.
If I read a blog that consistently had multiple typos, it might make me think the person is a bit too hasty. But once in a while, no way. That's human.
Posted by gchen on 04/14/2009 at 07:46am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Another fun set of words spellchecker misses is public/pubic. That has potential to create some "interesting" stories…
Posted by Chao on 04/14/2009 at 03:27pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Penelope –
I do have a concern: Why should readers trust anything that's full of typos and grammar errors? Proper spelling and grammar breeds a sense of credibility in a writer's work. If a writer can't accurately spell, how can a reader trust that they're accurately reporting/writing about a given topic?
Posted by Jason Wilson on 04/14/2009 at 11:28pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
This is really disturbing. Don't you care enough to give your readers your very best? Of course the comments section isn't meant for proofreading notes. But I am horrified that a career professional is suggesting that it's okay to have a typo in your resume. Come on people, at least AIM for perfection. If you don't have time to read your blog post for errors, then I certainly shouldn't be taking my time to read it.
http://dcgrrl.blogspot.com
Posted by dcgrrl on 04/15/2009 at 10:34am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Agree with dcgrrl. We don't have to have perfect posts, but at least take the time to proofread it once. Please.
And don't get me started on the importance of using correct grammar!
Posted by Deron on 04/15/2009 at 08:01pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
You definitely have a point – there is no need to be anal about spelling or grammar, and everybody makes mistakes. I certainly do, all the time. However, I think there is a difference between making the odd mistake and outright sloppiness. It is a matter of making a good appearance, just like shaving, washing, or wearing nice clothes as opposed to rags. Someone with greasy hair, dirty fingernails and a shirt they haven't washed in 50 days can be a very nice person, but the first impression they make won't be very good.
Also, making an effort regarding spelling and grammar is not a new requirement unique to blogging – it already applied back in the days when we wrote personal letters to people, on paper.
Posted by Knud Möller on 04/16/2009 at 05:25am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Poor spelling and grammar on any website is much like showing up to an interview with an untucked shirt or dishevelled hair. The person receiving you (or in this case reading what you have to say) need not necessarily tell you, but there's a certain expectation that hasn't been met. Perhaps an even more poignant matter to point out since your tagline is "brazen careerist."
Posted by Prunella on 04/18/2009 at 04:05am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Hello. I saw your post about typos and was struck by this sentence: "Because anyone who is trying to come up with fresh ideas, and convey them in an intelligent, organized way, on a daily basis, has way too many things on their plate to complain about other peoples' typos."
Well, I do actually blog about other people's errors: sentencesleuth.blogspot.com!
Every day I comment on a Criminal Sentence. I take these bad sentences from books I read or anywhere else public (sometimes from my copyediting clients).
(May I complain about a typo in the sentence I took from your post? It should be people's typos, not peoples'!) Yes, I can be annoying but informative at the same time!
Thanks, Bonnie Trenga
sentencesleuth.blogspot.com
Author of "The Curious Case of the Misplaced Modifier"
Posted by Bonnie Trenga on 04/22/2009 at 09:06pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
in my opinion, typos should be completely obliviated….the more we get used to them the more we become unable to tell what is right and what is wrong
Posted by Michael on 06/02/2009 at 05:40pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Penelope -
As you say, perfectionism is a mental illness (I am a long-time sufferer). Nevertheless, there remain four good reasons why bloggers should use spellcheckers. This could apply under any circumstances, including chat-type blogs dashed off in a hurry, but especially for any lengthy blog that is more of a short essay than a quick response:
1. Typos can convey a meaning other than the one intended.
2. Repeated misspellings of the same word reflect on the author's fundamental ability to spell.
3. Typos create the impression that the author's thinking is as hurried and disorganized as his or her spelling.
4. The blog entry might be read by a potential employer or funder that is turned off by careless spelling and grammar and the disrespect shown to the reader by not bothering to proofread one's own language.
Ben Goodman
Posted by Ben Goodman on 07/27/2009 at 01:16pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
the link to this april 2008 blog was forwarded to me by someone I emailed- pointing his attention to a few misspelled words in a webinar i was taking that was offered by his company. he was grateful for the oversight, which led us to the discussion of the paradigm shift related to, according to your blog, the decrease in the importance of spelling and grammar spawned by the new economy of communication and social networking. i care not when i read a blog, a tweet or text that has basic misspellings or an occasional incorrect noun to verb singular or plural correlation. my choice to be an accurate speller and grammarian is simply that. here is where i take you to the mat (no contentiousness implied) on a few of your conclusions: first, that good spellers are uptight control-freaks. second, that bad spelling is an organic side effect (my words, not yours) of the popularity of social networking. as a fellow writer i am fully aware of the importance of substance over form, and the advantage of the stream-of-consciousness writing process for spawning creative thoughts. there is no debate there. however, i am not aware of any social networking requirement to hit the 'send' key, whether on a cell phone or a laptop, without thought or notion to editing anything beyond spell check (if even that). hitting send to share your thoughts with the world without some kind of editing is one of the most short sighted, undisciplined actions any career minded person can take, even in today's anything goes world. leaving the responsibility of editing for one's sloppy writing to the recipient is dangerous,and worse, a lame excuse for laziness. it is not difficult to overlook the forms and froms typos, as you point out. however no social networking 'new way of doing business' should ever be held out to justify laziness or lack of discipline on mistakes like "there way of thinking", or, "her palet is trained to taste the suttlties". i agree to disagree with your opinion, and have also chosen to offer further food for thought on the issue of what kind of message we are giving our kids when we send them to school to 'learn' spelling and grammar, yet model for them that they simply are no longer relevant in today's society.
Posted by Kate Somple on 10/26/2009 at 05:45pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Great advices trunk… but, how to decide what typo of writing we wanna make? any easier ways for it?
Posted by training media review on 12/12/2009 at 11:56pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
There's a big problem with evidence here. You sight sources making connections between intelligence and typos, and essentially suggest that bad spelling is linked to intelligence. (No, you don't say that, but the insinuation is clearly there.) This is simply not true. A person's language ability in their (<-grammatically correct, look it up) native language is one of the surest and fastest means of measuring someone's intelligence, and spelling is part of that. That's the reason standardized tests have language sections. It's also the reason we associate the two so strongly. We're simply used to seeing the connection in our everyday lives. You may not want it to be so, and comments on people's typos are tiresome, but it's a fact of life. For my part, I use a poster's language as a quick litmus test to decide if they're worth listening to. I think most people do.
Posted by Christian on 01/26/2010 at 04:54pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Wow, I meant 'cite'. I'll try not to be a hypocrite at least.
Posted by Christian on 01/26/2010 at 04:56pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I won't bug you about your blog typos–I'll just make judgments about you, based on your typos. Because although I do understand that it's difficult to check every little grammatical and spelling choice, and that not everyone finds spelling and grammar easy, I also wonder what else you are skipping because it's difficult or tedious–maybe that little statistic there, or the correct name here? I think, based on your frequency of typos, that you are basically intelligent and articulate, but write in an informal style (not as informal as the norm for, say, Facebook, but pretty informal), and are moderately lazy about details you feel you can get away with ignoring.
Posted by Paula on 02/09/2010 at 03:04pm | permalink | Reply to this comment