I agree. It takes a lot to put something so personal out there. I guess that is part of what makes your blog so successful and interesting. I sincerely wish you luck with this situation.

Brilliant punch line.

I don't know if I could be so open about such difficult problems on my blog. I do know that writing things out and thinking about them can help a person, so more power to you.

One thought, can you (or do you) share these thoughts with your husband?

good luck.

Wow.

I guess I would ask, point blank, do you still love the man?

Are you doing the active listening that your marriage counselor, if they are competent, are training you in?

Those kinds of things can help a lot. Divorce is a real pain in the ass – you really don't want to go there. Especially as a main breadwinner.

"So I’m going to tell you the truth about stay-at-home dads: The happy ones are working part-time at something they love."

Sorry (not really) to disagree. I was never happier than when I was a stay at home dad, and I didn't have a part time gig. Working part time at something they love? I love my kids and family, and I worked at that full time. The problem is that society has tied our worth to our work. In a social setting, when asked "so what do you do?" (a question considered very rude in some European countries), once I told them they were pretty much done talking to me. They can't relate to me, they don't spend ANY time with their kids, and I spend ALL of my time with mine. How could they relate to someone with such a radically different value system? I didn't really care what they thought because I was always the "poor" kid in school, so I never fit in anywhere anyway. It's the isolation thats the killer. That and the fact that the wife stops treating you with respect even though your kids are well adjusted and reading at a 5th grade level in the 2nd grade. When your making 100k/year, she's proud of you even if you only see your kids once a week and they barely know who you are. When your raising your children right you're a loser that has put all the pressure of providing on her – even though she thought it was a great idea at first.

You and your husband don't really want a divorce, what you want is for the other one to change something about themself so you can be happy together. I pray you guys don't divorced. It takes a village….

Things like Columbine didn't happen in the 50s. Even if you didn't fit in at school you fit in at home. Now, with everyone focused on their career and ignoring the kids, if they don't fit in at school they are lost – and no one notices until it is too late. IMO

Dito. Great stay at home father. I can't wait for the day when these father raised little kids grow up to be adults. The world will see that we could do better. For the poor working Moms out there, that don't connect with their own offspring. You can't fix a broken momma.

Agreed Brian, more comments on the stay-at-home dad angle, less on the marrieage issues (though they are equally important, I feel they were covered ad naseum in the last post)

I happen to be in an interesting situation – ~30 yrs old, engaged to a (big name) law school graduate (who has secured a big time firm job for ~175K starting soon)

I make ~ 100K but am not happy with my job and have been job hopping (and likely to hop again).

Based on my current career outlook (hazy at best), it is unlikely that I will match her salary anytime soon – So, all of a sudden I'm faced with this idea that I may become a prime candiate for staying at home (when we have kids mind you) – Very strange thoughts to be having for someone like myself (with an MBA) who is intensly career orientated (hence a reader of this blog)

Anyway, I'd be interested in hearing people's experiences / thoughts – It could be something I'm faced with in the not so distance future.

ACE,
here ya go, in a nutshell:
When your raising your children right you’re a loser that has put all the pressure of providing on her – even though she thought it was a great idea at first.

That's a little funny – you have no secrets when you blog!

Wyan wrote: "what you want is for the other one to change something about themself so you can be happy together."

Is it a case of one wanting something in the other to change, or is it a case of one wanting something about oneself to change? Actually, I get the sense from this and the last post that Penelope is fine with her situation, but her husband is the one wanting some change probably more for himself than Penelope.

I don't know. I don't like psycho-analysizing people's blog posts too much. Especially since I'm just some regular Joe.

Anyway, great ending. Tragically fun. Here's to making it through the hard times.

Hmm. Your writing contains many not-very-subtle hints at why your marriage may be failing. I don't know how successful your husband was in his field, or what (hopefully) mutual decisions you may have made that resulted in him being the SAHD. But your writing implies that you think and deal with him as if he/his career was a failure, rather than graciously put aside to support you.

"As the career expert in my household…"
"…how to present himself professionally when he’s abandoned his profession."
"I feel very lucky that I’m the one who kept up a career."

Do you see what you're doing? You emasculate him, abandoning the (again, hopefully mutual) agreements that put him in his current position and virtually blaming him for failing. You're telling him he's worthless. And one of the biggest things that men need to know is that their wives respect and value them.
Another one of the top needs men have is the friendship of their wife. If you've abandoned communication because it's uncomfortable, you're burning bridges even while you claim you want to save the marriage. Talk to him and be his friend even when it's uncomfortable to you. It's okay if it's unilateral for a time. If you try and then he maintains his distance, the burden is on him to pick up the slack.

The final thing I would say is that if your career is a higher priority to you than your marriage, then maybe your priorities need re-ordering. Marriage first, kids second, everything else can wait in line.

I don't mean to attack; just voicing my opinion.

Remember that old saying about not seeing the forest for the trees? If someone other than your husband, but in the same position asked you for advice, what would you say? Since you are "the career expert in my household", try stepping back and looking at your situation as if you were not involved. What does he want? Does he want a career outside of the home? Do you know? Does he know? It must be old cliche day, but if you don't know where you are going, then any direction will do.

It is both refreshing and disconcerting to see that the maven of "advice at the intersection of work and life" doesn't have all the answers. I hope you continue to share your struggles with us and that you find a solution in time. I won't attempt to speak for the rest of the blogosphere, but I certainly find this thought-provoking.

Best wishes,
Dave

You are somewhat famous now. Because of your blog, now people who don't even know you personally know your deepest, darkest secrets. Some things are meant to be private, especially between a husband and wife. You can't put that cat back in the bag!

Careerism is a huge problem, especially here. Most of the people in the world work to live, but we Yanks live to work. We define ourselves by our jobs. The job consumes most of our time and energy and there isn't much left for anything else. It is almost as bad for those who are successful as "success" is traditionally defined. They acheive success and look around and still aren't happy. Now what?

Housewives have it really tough also. My wife is a homemaker taking care of our almost 2 year old daughter. It is a very isolated way to live. How is it that one of the most important "jobs" in the world is looked down upon? Imagine how it must be for a man, and the traditional gender roles he is expected to live within. A commedian (George Carlin (?)) once said our basic choices are work and jail. Not only that, money or lack thereof conveys significant power.

The stay at home Dad arrangement isn't working out for your family. Let Dad go back to work doing something that utilizes his skills and iterests and things will be fine.

"I know that there are a lot of stay-at-home dads. But while it may seem like there are a lot who are happy, I think it’s really just that every single one of the happy ones is blogging."

You're kidding, right? If he would only start blogging…!

Penelope, since you're advertising your marital problems to the world, I guess I can ask a few questions:

Who is giving up the most in this relationship?
Who has sacrificed more? Sounds like your husband has. Your work, it seems, takes more and more time away from the family, so the burden falls on him. Marriage is compromise. Your husband has given up a lot for your career, yet it sounds like your goals, your career, your wishes are of the utmost importance. What are you willing to give up for him?

And this bit: "…but I think it is career related since I have a great career and his sort of stalled when he became a stay-at-home dad and then went to hell from there." It sounds like you think he's a total failure. No wonder he wants a divorce.

"Surely writing stay-at-home dad on a LinkedIn profile cannot be good." What are your values here? Careers over parenting?

What's most important to you? Your career or your family? What are you willing to sacrifice to keep your marriage and family together?
You can't have it all. Yes, you can still be the Brazen Careerist, but maybe not so brazen–or just not be the Brazen Careerist all the time.

He may want the divorce, but I think–if there is still time to save the marriage–the ball is in your court. What are you going to do with it?

Another $0.02: maybe the Millennials won't have it this bad with whomever they decide should stay home and raise the kids. They are already so much more fluid about how they define community, and depend on such different tools to maintain that community. Wish it were so already, but clearly it isn't.

I know I hear many of my cohorts (Gen X) saying that "they [GenY] will feel differently" someday, when they have kids/get a real job/really grow up/whatever. (God, I am channeling my mother's voice.) The reality will probably be some convergence…where stay-at-home parents have other community options, where work isn't the be-all, end-all, and where the focus is on earning a living, so you can enjoy your life.

Penelope, it's easy to say that you're on the bleeding edge of a changing culture, and maybe you are, but it seems like you're on the verge of paying a really high price.

Penelope –

I am not going to pretend to know everything about relationships. I have been engaged once in the past and it did not work out.

I have one observation about your blog. In your about me section you don't mention your family or your husband. I am sure that itself doesn't mean anything specific and I believe everything you have done in your career are all things you deserve.

But if I was your husband it could incorrectly suggest a lack of recognition and respect for him and his support (emotional, family, etc) to you. I am sure that is not so but often breakdown's in communication are about what we didn't mean to say or suggest rather than we do say. I am first to admit that I think some things that I should say out loud.

I may be off base and you may thank your husband and your family every time you speak but it was just an observation.

-Mike

P.S. I am engaged for a second time and I believe in my heart this will work out. She is older than my last financee and there is a great deal of understanding and respect between the both of us. When times are tough because we are so different we laugh and remember that our love is more important than silly differences in our interpretation.

I'd like to see you on TV with your own talk show! You have to be one of the most well-written/spoken bloggers on the Internet dealing with how one's career affects their personal life and vice versa. And you're not just talk…you're living the talk for real!

I was going to comment directly in here, but decided to blogpost about it… I'm not sure if my trackback worked, so here's my comment:

http://ccjjharmon.wordpress.com/2007/07/20/marriage/

BTW – I REALLY agree with Alamgir's comment about sitting down at your ‘puter to (fill in the blank for me) – when you are neglecting your own home. Boy have I done that before… Maybe take some time off – I'd bet strengthening your marriage would strengthen you more than you would expect.

Penelope,

No offense but you might take a look at yourself. Consider it this way. He doesn't have a job, but he STILL wants to get away from the woman who is supporting him.

Sheesh.

I won't even pretend to know what you should do or say. I just hope things work out for you and your family.

I might have come across as giving advice for what you need to do…. I know I've done that before. I didn't mean to come across as any expert by any means.

We ALL should have be supportive of each other (male or female) in our marriages – those married know how it is!

I 100% agree that balancing work, kids, and a relationship is extremely difficult but not impossible, it just takes a lot of patience and understanding and giving and taking.

My only hope was to say that I feel for you both, and maybe provide something to think about. If you don't want it, that's OK. I know sometimes I don't make the right choices – and just wanted to share my thoughts. That's why I blog… to share.

For the love of God Sarah, we don't need to go down that road of "if it weren't for him, you would be nowhere". Everyone knows that is just what housewifes/husbands say when they are trying to leverage their way into a better divorce settlement.

And throwing the abuse word around is pretty frivolous usage of the word/concept.

Even if you accept that there would be better ways for PT to handle her success versus her husbands (arguable), calling someone an abuser because they are not as supportive as they could be, or even because they disclose information you don't think they should to the public, is just stupid and wrong.

You are not sure why he is thinking about divorce? Don't you want to know? Can't you just ask: "Why are you so unhappy?" And then can you listen carefully, without interrupting, for as long as it takes him to answer? Maybe his answer is "I don't know" and he walks away. Maybe you've already asked a hundred times over. All I know is that, unless you two learn to communicate, you have no chance at all.

You’re brave to open yourself to a group of would-be marriage counselors, Penelope.
Posted by Meaghan

Brave? I fear narcissistic might be the more
approrpriate term here.

"And the babysitter said, “Oh, don’t worry. I know. I read your blog.” Kind of chilling.

Notoriety is exactly what Penelope is looking for. For her, it's all about the page views – and this kind of "reality blogging" is what is currently selling. She even managed a plug for LinkedIn, who sponsor her. Gee, what a coincidence….not.

Penelope, your guest bloggers add so much to your already excellent blog –

I wonder if you and your husband would consider adding his voice to your blog? I'm not at all suggesting a he said/she said about your personal issues, but I'd love to hear in his words about his career journey and especially his stay-at-home-Dad experience.

This is the hardest thing in the world to do but I am suggesting it anyway—

Try To Take The Long View.

The stuff that seems so important, so overwhelming, right now will in 20 years seem laughably minor. The commentors are right, in the U.S. we do put way too much emphasis on work and money. People who devote their time to raising the next generation, which is incredibly important work, ARE looked down upon. And it stings.

But in 20 years–guess what, you're not going to care what people think! (This is provided you evolve, which you and your husband will, because you are thinking people.) So what I'm saying is try not to let that be a factor in what you do today. It's hard. But taking that Long View is tremendously helpful.

There's alot of good advice here. Lotta hatin too. A marriage is work, man. Life is hard, and often times lonely. And a marriage is supposed to be commitment to always have each others back, no matter what. Thick and Thin. No man is an Island.

Aaron commented "my wife wasn’t my problem…that is, either the cause of my unhappiness nor she a problem for me to fix.", and that's where GOOD counseling can take you. Will I be happy: a) if I leave; b) if I just accept that she is a tyrant sometimes and move forward. I know which one I chose, and I'd do it again!

"I am the only one talking about this because people are so quick to judge anothers’ marriage."

I have scanned the comments, and I don’t get the impression that your marriage is being judged. What I see are expressions of support together with admonitions that talk about marital problems is inappropriate for a public forum. Others are concluding that you’re trying to boost traffic by appealing to the rubberneckers out there. I don’t believe that’s the case, but I doubt that your opening up like this will help you resolve your personal issues. I think that those matters are between the two of you.

“As the career expert in my household, I always think I’m ten steps ahead of my husband.”

I agree that you have interesting insights about careers. That’s why I read. All the more reason why you should be able to help him with his work/life issues. You’re the Brazen Careerist for god’s sake! Help him out! No matter what happens, he’s the father of your child. Helping your husband will help your child.

I love the chances you take. Your honesty is refreshing. I am suspicious of people who pretend to always have it all and all together.

I've blogged about my 2 cents worth here.

http://clare-panton.blogspot.com/2007/07/parenting-skills.html

I've read the story 'My First Day of Marriage Counseling' as well. Somebody's marriage is quite a dark place to judge on it successfully unless being one of the spouses.

All I can see is that your husband must be really tired of marriage, looking after two children. It's genetically an integral part of women's nature to bear and breed them. Children are often closer to mothers too. You can hire a baby sitter, but what your husband said to the Doctor-Lawyer, is that he had given up his career. He thinks he has lost his chance, blames you and envious to your success.

Though, even you don't know exactly, what's the reason. If you feel that you shouldn't live together to grow and breed children together, than what's else a family for?

Aaron, I wasn't going down the "if it weren't for him you would be nowhere path" I was going down the – show a fellow human being a bit of respect path.

And the word abuse didn't come from me, it came from him, in her last post.

I first found your blog because of your post "I'm Moving Out of New York City", and "How to Choose a Place To Live" (paraphrasing those titles, sorry). I wrote to you that we had moved from a more expensive place, to a bigger city where we could get a better house, and perhaps better opportunities. I also mentioned that after 3 or 4 years we were throwing in the towel, and moving back to our overpriced but comfortable location. All of that is relevant to what I just read on your post.

Our marriage, during this time of relocation, nearly died completely. He was working more, and I became a SAHM because re-establishing my biz was almost a joke here. I had no friends, no contacts, no place to go, and the weather made it worse. Lack of a real social network will destroy any marriage. Trust me. I've read some amazing work about how marriages crumble when the balance of power is off. And that almost always happens when a couple changes their dynamic drastically, as you and I have done in ours. Couples meet, they marry, and create a family based upon a certain power structure.. or equality. When a move or a job change or layoff suddenly puts one person in a position of weakness (home all day without adult interaction), the balance is off and the marriage suffers. It's okay if a couple starts out that way, but it's the change in balance during the relationship that can cause all the problems.

We're still working on the re-relocation, securing a job for him there, putting the house on the market, etc. It will take a long time to repair the damage to the relationship from this move, if that's even possible.

I wish for you whatever outcome you'd like from all of this turmoil and relationship introspection. Perhaps the issue of the relocation should be examined in your situation.

Ten years ago I became a stay-at-home-dad because my wife was offered a wonderful promotion (she had planned and desired to stay home). I did this for two years.

It was a great experience, but also the hardest job I have ever had.

Before I took on the role for parent and primary home-maker, cook, etc…. we created a "stay at home parent job description" to be sure that neither my wife nor myself mis-understood what the job involved.

This is what most couples fail to understand….this is a job…every bit as hard, demanding and important as the person who works for a large corporation. But the downside is that you never get to be away from the job. No days off, not time away…and if you feel overwhelmed you cannot just sneak out for 30 minutes and run to Starbucks.

I could write a whole book on this topic, and none of your readers probably care about a longer post….but if your husband needs someone to talk to who really understands….have him email me. I can give him prospective, as I have been back in the work world for 8 years, and my wife has been a stay-at-home-mom for 7 years.

thom

I've got no experience in this realm – no stories to relate, no advice to offer. I just wanted to send my wishes for the best of all possible outcomes for you, your husband, and your son – whatever that outcome might be.

"No matter what happens, he’s the father of your child. Helping your husband will help your child."

This is the bottom line in these things. How does a man (or woman) love their child? By loving (and caring for) the child's other parent.

Sometimes it's the hardest thing in the world to do. It can also be the easiest.

"Children are one third of our population and all of our future." ~Select Panel for the Promotion of Child Health, 1981

Wow, how wonderful to see such honesty.

Although we have no kids, our marriage has been suffering because my husband is currently unemployed – I can't imagine myself feeling as bad as he does, because even unemployed, I would manage to have something to do (um, blogging more than likely), but he's distraught over it. We're finally moving, which will solve the problem, but I really just don't think men are cut out for staying at home. Ever.

Howard Stern and his wife discussed being public prior to being married and, no surprise, they aren't now.

Public embarrassment is a form of abuse, regardless of gender. Look it up. Encouraging two people two to share their problems for public comment is fraught with peril. No good will come of it. At best it will only serve to feed egos, damage reputation, and might make the couple act on the advice of a stranger who cannot possibly understand because they do not have the benefit of being there to see anything but the perception of two people; at worst, it may encourage others to project what they read here into their own relationships and cause problems where they do not belong.

Good luck to you both; you will need it on this path. Best, Rich

Penelope,

Dear you know I love your work and I wish you the best with this sticky new situation. My advice…since you are doing well, hire the babysitter (nanny) and let Dad go back to work. We men need to feel we are contributors. Bottom line, regardless of how the new society might want to see it – we still need to be out there hunting and bringing the kill back to the house.

Secondly, don't let your blog become diluted, please stay focused on the stuff that is helping so many of us become recognized like yourself. Peace be with you both, I'm pulling for you and your husband to work it out. Remember your team play on the court.

Blake

Penny,

Thanks, but please take care.

My husband was a stay-at-home dad for a little while but not by choice. People have provided great advice so it is up to you and your hubby to turn your situation around.

I am also an author, like you. My new book is called Mama Peavy says, "Women, It's OK to Marry an Ugly Man." I am Mary R. Butler.

Wow Miss P, I am so sorry.

I hope your family makes it, and I hope your marriage makes it.

I hope it doesn't come to divorce, been there, not fun.

Bob (my husband) calls me Misery. It’s one of the more endearing endearments he tosses my way on occasion and I think he takes it from the 1990 Stephen King movie starring James Caan and Kathy Bates.

Words used to describe that tale of terror are as follows:
dark
witty
brisk
taut
cynical
torturous
drama
thriller
horror
suspenseful
tightly tensioned
dread
scary
wild
bizarre

All that being said, Misery has been compared to Hitchcock’s achievements in "Psycho" in that it entertains without seeming exploitative. I believe THAT is what Penelope is attempting to achieve in her gran mal description of what’s going on in her marriage today – she is attempting to inform rather than entertain (but hey, the “entertainment” value is definitely there, let’s not ignore the guerilla in the room –if it’s too much for you to read, guys, just look away; you can do that, can't you?) and in so doing she is being accused of exploitation.

Phooey with that! Her reporting of the basic situation she is faced with is what makes the retelling so serious and so compelling – by comparing the sometimes nightmarish, desperate scenario she finds herself in against our own “sometimes nightmarish, desperate scenarios”…well, I hope you get the picture. We all benefit from her disclosures – even her husband, though he may not yet see it, immersed in the situation as he probably is. Penelope brings us humor, not at his expense but at her own. It’s this ability to laugh that helps us survive our ordeals and Penelope has the sense God gave a mule to laugh at herself. Like I do, when Bob calls me “Misery”.

;)

Maureen Sharib
Telephone Names Sourcer

Hey Penelope,

I think it is a good first step for your husband to be looking for a job, even if it is part time. Having a "baby sitter" will help, but maybe your are talking about more of a nanny type than baby sitter? When I read "baby sitter" I think more of a short term, perhaps revolving door of who can sit today versus tomorrow arrangement. Maybe it's too early to make more permanent arrangements, but it will be coming soon if he finds a job soon.

About not talking with each other at home: I think many couples are like this. You reach a point where neither side is ready to give in to the other and you think one more argument may send it over the edge. It's almost like a dare to the other person to be the first to speak again. It's a lot about power and of fear. Seeking the upper hand versus being too vulnerable. Silence is never a good solution. It usually produces more anger or worse, apathy. When it comes down to it, we are all selfish in one way or another and it is difficult to see another's point of view without interjecting our own views.

I hope that you two can find a way to get past this time of turmoil in your marriage. Each person has the right to not like what is going on in his/her own life and that includes how those around affect one another. We decide if we will tolerate those things we don't like and what we will do about it. If your marriage fails, try not to look at the faults of the other or to blame yourself. We each have our own free will to decide to stay or go. No one makes the decision for us to leave or stay. It's whether or not we can accept or tolerate differences in the other. If your husband doesn't like the way certain things are in your marriage it is his decision whether those problems are unacceptable to stay together. It is his and your decision whether one or the other can/will change to accomodate the other. Marriage is a lot of give-and-take, a lot of compromise.

We don't know how your husband truly feels as he does not blog in this forum and perhaps he wishes not. I would venture a guess he is burned out on being a stay-at-home dad and needs something of substance outside of the home to attach his life to. Getting a job is vital to him, I believe not only for his own self-worth and sanity, but also for his future should the two of you wind up divorced.

Don't stop talking/communicating with one another. No matter how painful, no talking only makes things worse. Try to keep personal jabs out and try to speak about how you feel, not what you think the other person feels. When my wife and I have argued, it often very quickly come apparent that one or both of us have a misconception of what has been bothering the other and what we think the other is thinking. Keep talking and get to a point of decision. Be compassionate and respectful that the other person has their own view which may not be the same as yours. Decide for yourself if you will change because you cannot make the other change unless they are willing. Many times if you require the other person to change, they will: from a married person to an unmarrried person. Unless what you are doing is illegal or immoral, the other person has no right to demand you to change. But if both are unwilling to change some things for the good of the other, then the question arises if you truly have a marriage/partnership or just a legal arrangement.

Well, it appears Ms. Trunk deleted my comment that was between maureen and matt's comments above. perhaps because I used a swear word? I forget some people are as offended by cursing as I am by corporate buzzspeech.

Here it is again, without the f-bomb, to see if it was that word, or the message that bothered her:

"I don’t think it’s brave, or commendable, or interesting, and certainly not original to be airing your marital dirty laundry on a blog. I am not here to comment on your specific situation, I have no desire to elaborate on how clear it is you have very little respect for the man you married.

I am commenting because you wrote this:

“I know that there are a lot of stay-at-home dads. But while it may seem like there are a lot who are happy, I think it’s really just that every single one of the happy ones is blogging.”

It’s unfortunate that you have decided to project the unfortunate issues with your own marriage on such a wide swath of men who have decided for whatever reason to take a non-traditional path, basing your conclusion on the oh-so-scientific poll of looking around at your neighbors in a silly little college town.

Maybe the reason your stay-at-home dad acquaintances didn’t want to talk to your hotshot friend is that most journalists set out to write features based on [deleted] baseless conclusions that they have already made, such as “almost all stay-at-home dads are unhappy.”*

*Except for those, like me, who happen to write about the experience on the internet."

I'll add one more bullet point:

* Mentions that he "delegated" finding a therapist to her because he is too busy blogging.

Greg B. is a good example of what appears to be the stereotypical response to a man wanting to stay home with the kids: he is a man and needs to contribute more to the bottom line. This is the type of attitude that all men must face in this day: a no-win situation. Our country values finances as the measure of a person; for men more so than women. Men are supposed to be the breadwinners or at least bring home an equal share of the budget. Many women attain their status through their husband's financial position. I have heard many women talk about SAHD's and most are not supportive. Most describe the man as lazy, deadbeat, no ambition, etc. Women don't get those tags when they choose to stay at home; at least not anywhere near the frequency as men. We still live in a time where men are expected to bring home the main support of the family and women in those families can choose more often to work or not. Much of the time it makes sense for the man to be the one who works because men generally make more money than women. That's not fair, but it's the way things have been and still are today. With salaries becoming more equal, much of that shift seems to be for a choice to be made as to who will stay at home. At this time, equal pay or even more pay for the wife is not the issue. It unfortunately is the society's gender roles that determine which route to take. Men staying at home are the pioneers at this time. Some will survive, but I believe many more will fail. For those men who have chosen that role and have the full support of their wife, it will still be difficult. Unfortunately our society is not ready for SAHD's, at least not in the way they are valued. Can they do as good of a job as a woman at home? I believe yes. Will they be valued as well as women in that role by our society? I believe no. Is that fair? No, but that's where we are right now. Unfortunately, I don't see that changing anytime soon.

I admire your honest and candid article talking about your own life and marriage. I had a similar situation. With two small kids running around the house, I barely have time to talk with my husband on topics not related with childcare. sometimes I found I don't quite know my husband because we talk so little about ourselves, our careers. Basically, we are too busy at home and at work. Then I found out a way to talk to my husband. He likes to chat with friends online through IM. So during the day, I will chat with him through MSN or yahoo messenger for a while to exchange the ideas about work, career goals and all sorts of things in our life. It works pretty well. this open communication channel really helps. although we still lack of time sitting together to talk face to face, but at least I know what is really in his mind. Hope everything gets better for you.

I'm eager to learn more about stay-at-home dads because that's currently my situation:

I'm the career gal, and he will most likely be the stay at home dad. He does have a part time job he loves – massage – but right now just being the stay at home housewife hasn't been sitting terribly pretty. Despite the fact that for years it wasn't even blinked at that the woman stayed home and took care of the cleaning, the laundry, dinner, etc…I'm getting a lot of pushback on how "little I do around the house."

I'm not sure how to handle this because I don't want to demean his position, but frankly – I kind of consider it his job responsibility at this time to take care of the house – sort of a way to "keep up" with what I bring in. I don't want to bring it to money or point out that he's not fulfilling his half…but that's how I often feel.

We have to sit down and have talks with each other regularly about this – and it gets better and we are still very close and happy in our marriage. I'm concerned how it will be with children, though.

Wish your husband would blog about it…

* * * * * *
I don't think it works for one person to do all the stuff around the house. It's too hard. Taking care of a house is harder than going to work. At work people reward you , you have new, interesting things to do, you get money in exchange for showing up, it's all very structured and kudos-based. At home, it's less predictable, devalued by society, and has a less structured reward system.

–Penelope

Especially if part of the wife's job was caring for an autistic child.

I'm in a similar situation with marriage going to pot and career being much brighter than husbands. One thing I've come to hate–advice from other people that have no idea what your life is. Good luck to you–and I look forward to more posts.

I'm glad to read these posts and I hope the negative comments don't put you off.

I was wondering (haven't read all the archives if you addressed it) if you think the move itself to Madison affected your marriage too? Because there are just fewer jobs there than NYC and he might feel more trapped?

* * * * * * *
This is an excellent question. I think the answer is probably yes, but problems are not so simple as 800 word blog posts and a comment string. I am not really sure about the answer. I think that stay at home parents have trouble going back to work in any city they live in. It's a problem that permeates most of the business world.

–Penelope

First time reader . . . ever think that your man may have "abandoned" his career to support yours? I did just that, and later went thru a period of bumping into my spouse and not apologizing. We came thru it intact, not everyone does. But if you really feel he's the anti-careerist, anal retentive lunch packer you describe in this post, maybe you'd be better off apart. If that happens, lucky you kept up that career, you can pay a sitter to pack the kids' lunches.

ps – I have no idea what I want to do, and it feels great!

* * * * * * * *
Hi. Welcome to Brazen Careerist :)
I have written for years now about our process of deciding that he would stay home. So the answer is yes, he did it to support my career. You can look in the parenting category of the blog to read more about this — we started out doing shared care – equal parenting. But he couldn't find a job he liked that would enable that. I think that for most families, working out careers and childcare is very complicated — especially when the parents don't want to leave the kids with a nanny all day.

–Penelope

Sorry about your marriage. But please don't generalize.

My husband and I have been married 17 years. We married young – 22. We have three kids – our natural child, 16, and two special needs kids we adopted from foster care – one with autism, one with cerebral palsy.

My husband has been a stay-at-home dad for nearly 13 years, no part time job. He volunteers – at school, coaching, teaching art, and with the homeowner's association, cub scouts, little league, etc. That's practically a full-time job on its own.

He's standing behind me saying that posts like yours are what make it hard to be a SAHD. People generally assume SAHD's feel emasculated for staying home with the kids. He loves his job. Where else, he says, can you get a job that lets you shoot 32 holes of golf every week? (ok, he concedes, doctor is the other).

Our marriage is better than ever. Your husband being a SAHD dad may be your issue, but your generalizations are NOT true for all.

PS – my hubby doesn't blog, either.

I can't say much, since I just found this blog – I just wanted to say that our family is two months into the full-time SAHD / WOHM structure after trying the full-time two-income structure and, before that, the traditional full-time SAHM / WOHD structure.

So far, so great. DH does great with the kids (16 month twins), we are working through how to divide the housework, and I am getting much more sleep now that DH is home more. We are both getting more free time and time to pursue hobbies.

However, DH also never enjoyed working. He worked internal technical support, had lousy hours, mediocre benefits, insufficient paid time off, and the constant stress of trying to balance work and fatherhood. Plus he just doesn't like working for "The Man". So he was pretty okay with the career change. I was 110% behind it, because if he didn't quit his job then I was going to quit mine – and I love my job. However, being a two-income family was horrible for us and, having done the SAHM thing for eight months before returning to work, I knew it was better.

I would like to see him go back to work at least part-time someday, and continue his education in the meantime. I don't think he wants that for himself right now, though. He seems to be settling in comfortably right where he is – at home. And I love working full-time without the two-income stress.

Oh, and he doesn't have a blog :-)

At least, not yet.

Penelope, I hope everything works well for your family. Kids suffer a lot when things don't work between parents. I've a brother who thinks it is ok for parents to live seperate instead of fighting together which is harder for the kids. I think parents are adults and we should be able to understand and workout something together. But I know it is all very very hard. You are an intelligent person and I'm sure you'll find your way out.

“So I’m going to tell you the truth about stay-at-home dads: The happy ones are working part-time at something they love.”

As a stay at home dad with three small children – going through a separation and imminent divorce, I totally agree – of course. My heart is totally in the jobs I do from home. And they enable me to be there for my kids whenever I'm needed.

For me, the main issue of divorce is not who gets what, or who is to blame – but what happens to the children. Most states now require special counseling sessions about the impact of divorce on children – before they allow the divorce to go through. I will gladly sit in these sessions so at least I will know what to expect in the future behavior and character of my kids.

My advice to you is to take it slow, and place your children first. If that means taking a bullet in the teeth – so be it. If the kids come out somewhat ok – then you have succeeded and done what is right.

Good luck and God Bless;

Can't help but notice that there isn't anything about marriage, husband, or relationship in your list of categories. Do you really care if he leaves you?

I'm coming to this a little late but wanted to respond to this blog, given how much attention it has garnered and my primary focus as a filmmaker.

I'm currently making a documentary film about involved fatherhood called "The Evolution of Dad" and so the topic of stay-at-home-dad is something I've been studying fairly closely.

So much of the contentment of SAHD's depends on how they perceive themselves. The message that our culture gives is that SAHDs are emasculated and lazy and failures. There are certainly many SAHDs out there who feel isolated and worthless as a result. And then there are SAHDs who have embraced (some even chosen) their status as primary caregiver and find incredible fulfillment in it. Being at home, whether it's a mom or a dad, is certainly not for everyone – but if one can get past all of the cultural messages, there's incredible value in taking care of the kids, both for the dads and the children.

I appreciate Penelope's perspective – it's certainly a valid one – but it's also clouded by the emotional turmoil she and her family are currently immersed in. There seems to be a lot of ego and power games going on that are unfortunate in the running of a family.

I recently read a book by Julie Shields, titled "How To Avoid The Mommy Trap" and thought it was illuminating, not just for moms but for dads as well. The book does a good job at going into things to talk about before getting married, pertaining to child care, etc. It's a worthwhile read and can be a useful tool to help a couple avoid where Penelope and her husband are at in their relationship.

Hope this is helpful.

Dana Glazer

Hmm, here's an idea. Instead of hiring a babysitter, cut back on your own career. If you can both survive one income, why not split it between the two of you? How could you expect that of your husband without being willing to do it yourself?

BOTH of you need to be proud of your work outside the home. Though human beings should be defining themselves for a myriad of other reasons, most people do define themselves through their careers. You need to let your husband know that you really admired his career before children and you can't wait for him to get back to feeling like he's offering something to the Gaming community again. And you can pretend like he is a client, using all of the knowledge you've amassed to help HIS career for a little while.

And this comes from a person who thinks there's not a problem in the world with a woman working and a man staying home, lest you think me misogynistic.

Wow, this post and the one re: your first day of counseling positively drips with contempt for your husband, especially his professional choices. Considering the nature of *your* profession, this reads as especially harsh.

I wish you all the best, in whatever form that takes. For myself, the dissolution of my miserable first marriage opened the door to my amazing second marriage. Which, now that I think about it, is probably amazing only because I learned so much in breaking the first one, then trying to fix it. Namely: some things can't be unbroken, so if you value them, don't break them.

p.s. I found this post by way of your Huffington Post bit on September 11, which was brilliant.

I just surfed into this blog tonight for the 1st time…and it's almost like a parallel universe to my life!
I too am the main breadwinner (in online marketing, no less), while my husband has been "trying out" staying at home now for 4 years. He's started a part-time gig this summer and I'm hopeful it will continue because he's terrible at staying home.
We have also just recently started marital counseling.
Thank you so much for including your honest words about the marriage part of "the intersection." Those words helped me tonight.

By the way: If you are an at home dad and you are looking for "A shoulder to cry on" or even some advice, here is a link to check out. http://sahd.melknight.net/index.php

Thank you for your post. It's opened my eyes on how abusive I am to my SAH hubby. Like you, I have a successful career that has no way to go but up. He was quite successful as an engineer (I was the SAHM then) before we switched at some point, so he could be fully supportive of my career as a physician. (Can't go pack lunches or go to PTA now with millions of patients to see, can I?) Now that our daughter's in elementary school, he's thinking of going back to work, but time has gone by, and he needs to update his skills. I am getting impatient, and we're starting to argue. (Spouses with high-powered careers are just so much more attractive, aren't they?) The thing is, he stopped his career while he was on the rise, FOR ME. I should never forget that. While we did not actually mutually agree that he should stay home, he decided that I would be more successful if he completely unburdered me from parenting while training and starting my career. HE WAS RIGHT. I have decided to go to counselling, because I'm abusive and disrespectful. He was never abusive to me when I was the SAHM. It is not for me to judge your attitude or relationship with your husband. I am judging myself.

Grr.. sent that off too quickly. I wanted to say, I'm a SAHD, happy as heck with the job. It's a tough job, but it's well worth it. I have the respect of my wife, and those that I talk to; I endure disrespect from a large amount of our society and I can understand how that is tough on SAHDs. If you have a spouse at home, male or female, go give them a big hug and kiss — and tell them how much you appreciate it.

Sorry about the misplaced comma in the previous post. It was poor proofreading on my part.

Doctors bandaged my eyes shut. My husband held my arm for three days, showing me where to go. For a week, he stayed by my side every moment. I didn’t shower. I barely slept. My ability to stay in reality was limited. And he was there the whole time.
(http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/09/11/my-911-day-my-husband-the-meaning-of-my-to-do-list/ )

I hope Penelope things work better for you. I pray you get the kindness that you are seeking for as most of us do.

Good luck. Take care.

Half of the people commenting here seem very self righteous and probably have no idea what it is like deal with the role reversal, the ingrained societal expectation of the man to provide for the family, and the disparaging comments from friends and family who cannot fathom the idea of the man staying at home. Yes, the SAHD's role is invaluable, and their are too many kids who suffer greatly from the lack of a father around enough, but there is no reason they can't be proactive in seeking some kind of part time employment, be it in the home or when their wife is home with the kids. This can be done…it's called teamwork, and like it or not, women tend not to fully respect men who don't offer some small way to provide financially for the family. This is why women love it when a man works. It's ingrained in women, perhaps even biologically to see the man as the protector and provider. They are built for this task. They're men. Most women with difficult marriages due to resentment regarding this issue would be ecstatic if their husband just contributed even minimally to the finances. Sorry, that's just how it is. I love your blogs Penelope, and admire your candidness. I don't doubt that you love your husband. Writing about the problems in this forum beats taking it out on him directly. If only more people were honest about the state of their marriages maybe we wouldn't all have such warped expectations of how marriage is supposed to be. I believe you speak for millions of marriages and I applaud you.

I'm only one year into marriage and already communicate (well, not communicate) like that. I've been trying to find a counseling course in my area, and your blog came up in my Google search. I absolutely love how honest and open you are about what's going on and what you're feeling. I admire you both for committing to each other and seeking outside help. My husband is very hesitant to get counseling because of the stigmas he has attached to it in his mind, but we're working on that. Also, I loved reading the specific details and dialogue of counseling; if you left that out, we wouldn't be able to see the whole story. You give me hope that my marriage can improve if we deal with our problems early on. Good luck and please keep posting!

If the happy stay-at-home-dad is a myth, why isn't the successful business woman a myth?

Historically, successful men with families were able to achieve their success by having stay-at-home-moms taking care of everything outside of their business. While most of these women never got the recognition they deserve, looking back it is clear that they were integral to their husbands success.

In this day of more women executives (which is something long past due), why would you assume their success would not require an equally supportive stay-at-home-dad?

I stumbled on your blog just the other day. Being an online writer myself AND involved in software marketing, I thought HEY this is a blog I can really connect with. Looking through your blog I saw the title for this post and uh-oh, got to read that because… I have a stay-at-home hubby too.

Only in my case, when he resigned from his 'corporate job', he joined me and we ended up sharing 'office space' instead of him just doing house chores if you know what I mean. We're together 24h a day. And while some couples get nauseous at just the thought of that… we've been at it for almost 2 years now. Guess I'm lucky :) (knock on wood!)