Everyone was right. About everything.
Everyone who said that me moving with the kids to Swarthmore would be the end of my marriage is probably right.
And while I’m at it, all the people who told me to stay away from the farmer when we were dating — you were probably right too.
And the people who say in the comments section that I don’t know how to do intimacy. I guess you were right also. Because clearly I’m having trouble.
I keep saying this to Melissa and she keeps telling me I made good choices. She points out that my ex-husband was excellent genetic material and he is a great ex-husband. That is true. I mean, we spend a week together in the apartment each time he visits the boys in Swarthmore.
And Melissa points out that the farmer is fun, and the farm is a totally great place to raise two little boys. Well, until the kids couldn’t do anything they wanted to do on the farm.
The farmer is not going to move here. He’s decided on a once-a-month visitation schedule right now. And he told me that he has been keeping track of any money he spent on the family that is over $200 and I owe him $30K. To be clear, $30K is not that much for me. I can pay it back.
Melissa said I should send the farmer a bill for all the times I had to hire a driver to get us to Chicago so that we could do cello and still live on a farm.
I told her that’s not fair because I agreed, when I moved the boys to the farm, that the farmer would not have to pay for anything for us – he just paid utilities and taxes how he always did.
Melissa says, “That’s not an agreement you make going into a good relationship.”
I said, “Duh.”
In Swarthmore I told the boys they have to start doing their own laundry. And then I said they should do mine, too. They complained, of course. And I told them about kindness and caring and they better be nice to me because how you treat your mom is how you treat your wife and I don’t want my future daughter-in-law to think I let the boys walk all over me.
That’s true about how men treat their wives like they treat their mothers. For example, farmers have largely financial relationships with their parents, and that is largely what I had with the farmer as well. I didn’t mean for it to be that way. I don’t actually care about money and neither does he, which maybe means that was all we were willing to give to each other.
Some days I worry that my older son is not disciplined enough to make it through college. He does not read as much as I did when I was his age. And I was in special-ed English classes for reading below grade level. But then I notice he does his laundry like clockwork, even folding while it’s still all warm from the dryer.
I asked my son to do my laundry and because the last time I screamed this time he said fine. But he also said that my clothes take longer to dry than his do and he can’t wait because his biology tutor is coming. Impressed with this magnificent display of time management, I said I’d get mine out of the dryer.
Then, two days later, all my clothes were gone.
I tried to not really say anything to the kids. They know things are sort of falling apart for me: Yesterday my younger son told me, “Mom, it’s going to be hard for you to get a third husband at your age.”
I wanted to be speechless or deaf or something, but I decided a good mom would be reassuring, so I said, “Don’t worry. Dad loves us very much.”
The kids used to call the stepdad Dad and the biological dad by his first name. But recently the boys have noticed that there are huge differences between the two, so they say Dad for both and we all know which is which in context.
Of course, the boys are noticing there are huge similarities as well.
My younger son tells me my sweater smells.
My older son said, “She doesn’t have another sweater, all her laundry got stolen.”
WHAT????? How did he know?! The kids know so much more than I give them credit for knowing.
And I’m pretty sure you are that way, too.
I was thinking that I was worried that it would feel terrible to have to admit to you that I can’t keep a marriage together. But now I see that the worst thing is actually to have to answer my youngest son when he says, “Do you think that because I have two dads who don’t want to live with me that I won’t want to live with my kids either?”
Never never get back in a relationship with someone who would bill you. WTF? No. Let a lawyer on that and watch the laughter.
Choosing to marry someone with kids does not automatically make someone any kind of person, good or bad. And most people have a mix of flaws and virtues.
Kids will struggle and eventually will figure out that their parents did the best they could. (That’s what I did) .
It’s a constant struggle for women to find the balance between taking care of yourself and taking care of others. Keep on doing your best.
Holding you in the light.
I always think separation of finances in a marriage seems strange because I always thought of marriage as a partnership, but I can imagine how I might feel. Sound advice would be not to marry someone who spends without restraint and can ruin you financially. But what if you want to marry the person anyway? I think this kind of separation of money is an acceptance that one person isn’t going to stop spending money but an attempt to make it work.
As difficult as it was to write this post and give us this update, I’m glad you got it done. One less thing to worry about as I know you’d prefer to write and post on a more frequent basis. It’s easy to see why you love your blog so much. You have a great community here with many helpful and supportive comments. Best to you and your family.
When I was growing up, I called my father Daddy Jim and my stepfather Daddy Sam. Now I just call both of them Asshole. No, not really. But really, Mom married three more times, so tell your youngest to put that in his pipe and smoke it. If he smokes a pipe, which I hope he doesn’t. Also, tell him he’s not the one the two dads don’t want to live with. Some kids are slow to realize that part. And try not to marry three more times. Mom was weird.
Sorry to hear life is tumultuous, you’re doing your best and this is a great post, you’re going to be ok and your kids are too. You’re a good person/parent. I dont get why you’re concerned about a son who might not get into a good college cuz u sometimes say college isn’t necessary/important. keep your heart open.
Dear Penelope
I hear grief, sadness and lots of self judgement in your post. Thank you for sharing your intimate details with your readers. I hope it provides a support system for you.
That said, this is not the place for you to take advise. No one here really knows the reality of your experience or what’s really going on. You have Autism. You perceive and interact with the world in a very complex and unique way ( i hv respectfully worked with people with Autism or Autistic people for many years) . Finding a support system there may help you greatly to understand the way you uniquely interact in relationships and the world. Both in magnificient ways and in destructive ways. Drexel and Penn both have great resources for adults on the spectrum and the family who love ( and are exasperated by)them. There are other resources as well. The community, ACCEND , which you can google, is local and has resources for you. Dont resign yourself to accepting things the way they seem to be playing out, things change when we, ourselves, change. Lastly, if you want to hear yourself speak and be listened to with or without resource help( for anything) call CONTACT ( 610-649-5250). 8 am- 8 pmContact is a free phone line for anyone needing to be heard about anything.
Penny,
Everyone has an opinion, but ultimately the only one that matters is yours. What would you advise a friend to do in your situation.
Mytwocentsworth
Gosh I stop reading your posts for a few months and all hell breaks lose. I didn’t stop reading because I wanted to. Life. But this is about you and not me. In my opinion, the farmer is billing you because he is hurt, and this is the only way he knows how to express that, maybe. Just a guess on my part. But people fall to monetary blame when they are hurt. As far as the seeing him once a month – I am married to a truck driver and see him once a month for a few days. I see many benefits to that arrangement. Don’t give up.
Penelope,
I agree with Melissa, you did the right thing. Kids come first-you believe that and that is exactly what you have done. Childhood is fleeting, adulthood is long. I admire that you have steadfastly held that value close.
Intimacy-well that is something you now realize and there are thousands of books, blogs and videos on that subject. I don’t know about your relationships but it sounds like you choose people who don’t know how to do intimacy either. That is the hard part.
You and the farmer don’t care about money. Well, not too sure that is true. People that don’t care about money do not keep track of what they have spent and ask others to pay it back in a relationship. He secretly kept track-intimacy problem-he kept track=he cares about money and or his values about money were different than yours so he kept track of all the money because he didn’t agree with your choice on how to spend the money.
We here in the heartland have oodles of jokes about bachelor farmers. I have known very few women who chose to live on a farm with a farmer for the same reasons you did, who have been successful. I think you put a ton of work into understanding his work, appreciating his work, joining in the work and providing a home and nourishment for your family.
Money arrangements with parents that restrict freedoms are mind fuckers no matter if you are a Hilton or a Farmer.
Take care, don’t panic, you are a good person and that is the most important thing to be.
A lot of posters are telling you to go back to the Farmer. Perhaps they weren’t reading your blog back in the days when you posted photos of the bruises he gave you. If you and the kids are happier in the city, then you’re on the right track.
Dear Penelope,
My advice is to prioritize and then own those choices. Right now, it looks like the Farmer is pretty low on your list. If you want that relationship to work, you have to move it up to the top, at least for a while. But maybe you moved to Swarthmore at least partly because you wanted to leave the Farmer? In that case, don’t drag things out.
I am modifying my response to you by omitting the first sentence. I was trying to be empathetic by identifying what feelings I thought I was hearing in your post. In thinking about it, I may be way off base and you are just relating facts, what is for you, right now. The rest of the post, especially talking to someone who really gets you, I
think may be helpful.
All life is, is a spark between you and something: could be nature, person, sky… That gives you energy, vibration, feeling that you are part of something, makes you feel alive.
If you think of ALL around you in this way, instead of conventional marriage, duties, home, what we aught to do, what society wants us to do… It simplifies all these choices A LOT.
You love the sparks of your unschooling.
You love the feeling of doing the right things for your kids.
You navigate your life to where more sparks will happen for you.
May be for a time, sparks of watching your boys with their dad weeks at a time is more value for them and you get the most sparks from life that way.
We all try to optimize the sparks in our lives. It takes guts. It’s trial and error.
It’s what you are doing.
Be happy.
I am sure you can think of dozens of families that look “proper and orderly” on the outside but totally dysfunctional if not poisonous on the inside with no real connection, relationships and definitely no sparks.
Are those YOUR couches in the barn??? WTH!!!!
I have never commented on your “relationship” with the farmer, but I have had millions of thoughts. Like, “Why is she with him? Why did she stay with him when he physically assaulted her? She can do better!!!” And if he has resorted to tossing your furniture out with farm animals… enough!!! No monthly visits. What kind of relationship is that?
“Do you think that because I have two dads who don’t want to live with me that I won’t want to live with my kids either?”
Maybe because he has a mom who would go to the end of the Earth for him, he’ll be a Dad who does the same for his kids. He has multiple models to choose from, and will find a few more along the way to parenthood as long as he know’s his behavior is his to choose.
Your next startup is obvious: Classical Music Anonymous. Save others from the devastating scourge of antique instruments with no career path! (“Ancient cellos and hokey religions are no match for a good blaster at your side, keed!”)
Coding for the children! Have them all in programming careers by age 12, take the pressure off everyone.
Knew as a pre-teen when Helen Reddy, I Am Woman, came out it was bullf^^king$h!t. How?
In Numbers Too Big To Ignore ?? Seriously, girlfriend had a problem. ALONE, Too Big To Ignore, is my lyric.
You are enough Penelope. Do the next right thing. What is that? Don’t know, but I do know it resides in your heart, not your head.
What is the line from E.M. Forster ? A Room with a View, ” … She had played some Beethoven and Mr. Beebe had been so taken … He made a comment to Lucy’s mother that “if Miss Honeychurch ever takes to live as she plays, … ”
Perhaps Jung, “Our lives are about getting the outside to match the inside.”
Garden & Be Well, XO Tara
All I have for you is love. And praise at your vulnerability and amazing writing.
Do you and the farmer want to work things out?
If you do, I highly recommend the couples retreats by research therapists John & Julie Gottman (science-based counseling). Their research showed that one weekend retreat covered about the same ground as 6-8 months of therapy:
https://www.gottman.com/couples/workshops/art-science-of-love/
I think the underlying thing of why relationships can be so hard is because intimacy can be very painful, especially with past trauma and triggers, and it’s really tough to contain emotions when triggered. Then when emotions are high, partners react in ways that put each other in fight or flight mode. So learning how to deal with all that is key.
If you and he aren’t in a place of trying, then don’t lose hope for someday. As long as we are alive, we are driven to love, and love will find you again. <3
Oh, Penelope. I’m really sorry.
Your kids are old enough that they’ll be okay. Maybe not as okay as you want them to be. But you made it through your childhood, somehow, and they’ll make it through theirs because you gave them a better childhood than your parents gave you. I think that when they have kids of their own, they’ll be even better parents. Maybe tell your son that.
I’ve worked with boys and men from pretty wide age ranges from at-risk, single-parent families, and one thing I’ve noticed is that there are always those who learn from their absent fathers the opposite lesson – “My dad wasn’t there for me, and it messed me up, so I’m never going to leave my kids.” And they follow through. They’re good fathers who stay with their children. Your kid is fully capable of being that kind of dad – if he plans to be.
And Penelope, for what it’s worth coming from some Internet rando, you’re going to be okay, too. I bet it doesn’t feel like it now at all, but maybe in a way it’s a good thing to be apart from the farmer. I feel like marriage and kids are two separate things, and I’ve said this before, but it seems like it’s so hard for people on the autism spectrum to be good at more than one thing. You focus on one part of your life – work or school or friendship or love or kids – and excel at that one thing, and everything else kind of goes to shambles unless you have firm supports everywhere. Now you can focus on your kids. (Well, you already were – but now you’re in a location where you can meet their needs better.)
Hang in there.
Forget about the $30,000. This isn’t about money and you know it. The Farmer knows it, too. This is about commitment. And family, You are supporting your youngest child in extraordinary ways. Good for you. On the other hand, you are not supporting your husband and your marriage. Not so good. When you married the Farmer, you knew that he and the farm were one unit. There was no way he was going to move to Pennsylvania so your kid could take cello lessons. I can’t think of 5 men in the world who would leave their family farm and family legacy for a kid’s cello lessons. That’s not saying anything terrible about men. That’s just reality. You knew what you were getting when you married him, He knew what he was getting when he married you. It’s no picnic but it was what he wanted. In another 7-8 years, your kids will move on to their own lives. You want them to do that. It’s heathy. And then where will you be if you have ruined your marriage? Ultimately, you will do what you are going to do. But, as your extended family (and that’s sort of what you have made us all), we can’t help but worry about you. The Farmer seemed good for you and good for your boys. Please don’t teach your kids that families are expendable and commitments are something you honor only until it becomes inconvenient. Having to compromise between the needs of your husband and the needs of your children is always tricky. I’m just sayin…..
By the way, the key word in my above comment was “compromise.” Can you and the Farmer think of a better compromise to this situation?
P, you always tell your readers that we cannot have everything in life at the same time. We have to prioritize relationships, achievement and success. We can maximize those things in sequential order, but not simultaneously.
Right now, you want to maximize your sons’ opportunities. That’s understandable. The tradeoff is the destruction of your sons’ family for those maximized opportunities. Is that a valid tradeoff?
Being in a marriage means that you must keep it priority number 1 for the rest of your life. It’s hard to keep a marriage together if it isn’t the top priority. It’s clear that right now your marriage is not your top priority. It probably hasn’t been for a long time. Why not?
You are a maximizer. It’s hard to be a maximizer on a farm in Wisconsin. I understand that. However, you have to choose between love and accomplishment. For everyone, we all have to choose between those two things.
From an outsider’s perspective, you treat love and relationships as replaceable commodities. You don’t put those things first in your life. It’s fine if you don’t. But be honest with yourself that accomplishment is more important to you than love. And make your choices accordingly, with no regrets for yourself. However, you will probably regret how your choices affect your sons.
There is no way PT fits on a farm to begin with. Wasn’t she totally disinterested other than the gardening? I grew up in the country, and they don’t cotton to outsiders. This includes gifted, Asperger’s, artistic or oddballs of any sort. I guarantee everyone there thinks she is a city snob with her New York business meetings and cello lessons. Probably the same goes for her kids. Wasn’t one of her sons interested in fashion design? He’ll get beaten up every day in the middle of Wisconsin. Everyone keeps posting that the Farmer can’t be expected to leave the farm, well, PT seems like someone who belongs in a city to me. He was abusive, anyway. Bottom line, she should just decide where she and her kids are happiest and safest. Don’t make it about their music lessons though, or they will think it is their fault.
I’ve been watching your blog for a few years now (got to know it using linkedin). Not sure if I ever commented something here.
Sometimes I get angry about how confident you feel about many things. Other times, like now, you reveal real modern life issues and a deep emotional roller-coaster effect. But even not always agreeing with you, I keep coming back and reading your posts. Why? Because you manage to get over things, keep life going and, while doing so, make some money.
I try to do the same but have to confess that the “make some money” aspect kinda sucks around here (around here meaning my attitude in like, not the place I live).
Anyway, thanks for your insights and, well, here’s what I keep repeating to myself: hope for the best (Quoting “the wonder years”) – “And there you have it. The awful truth, the bottom line. When it comes to love… there’s no simple fix. You’re out there, on your own, and maybe all you can do is hang on… and hope for the best. And lead with your heart.”
Best wishes
Don’t go for ‘right’, go for love. I guess the challenge is in loving yourself, your boys…and the farmer. Each probably take different priorities at different times of your day, your week and your life. But each need to know they are loved. Do you still love the Mathew?
We don’t care about being right. We care that you are happy…
I don’t know P… it seems like you are always running away from something. Like keeping busy ’cause the silence would be unbearable. What are you so afraid of? I really like your writing and when I ran into your blog I felt an instant connection. But after I started meditating and reading about Buddhism I feel I moved on. I think you are great with words but the connection is gone. I am sorry for being harsh, I am still an INTJ and very far from buddhahood. You know, striving for excellence can be just another prison.
Is the farmer at all OK with you moving away? Does he miss your cooking, regular sex?
Can’t you do fortnightly visits, him travelling to you guys one weekend, you guys travelling to the farm two weeks later?
The money issue doesn’t sound strange to me at all. You obviously have vastly differing attitudes towards making and spending money, so it makes total sense to keep things separate.
You are not a conventional person, so no need to have a conventional family set-up. I do hope that your family remains intact.
INTJ hugs and good vibes from Cape Town, South Africa
Penelope I think farmers are tied to their land in a way most people can’t understand. Life is not supposed to look like a peachy sitcom.
I’m sorry you’re going through this.
I enjoy reading your blog and believe you’re a (rare) good person.
Is there any way at all that you can make living on the farm work? I’m sure, given the choice, your kids would rather have a dad than cello lessons. None of us are living your life, so we don’t know. Good luck, and keep us updated.
When you were driving hours and hours between lessons and were sick of it, you said you both decided it was best to move. He decided that with you. One of you is not following through on the decision. We don’t know enough detail to be able to accurately reflect back what you are wanting to hear.
It is a little strange to me, that farmer or not, he’s not coming out to PA. If the relationship was all about the convenience of you being on his stomping grounds, then that may be showing now. Passive aggressively mentioning small sums of money (as if 30k is a big deal, please, you’re not college kids anymore) is a childs’ squabble. Threatening to not support his ‘wife’ and kids, financially or otherwise, is low and full of resentment (it was so easy for him, when you were around, now it’s not as easy- whatever that’s being an adult). BUT, since you aren’t technically married and he’s not technically or legally their dad, you don’t have legal recourse and it wouldn’t surprise me if he has mentioned suing you in court over the small cash, after all.
Maybe the fairytale is over and this boyfriend is moving on. The kids need to know that, if it happens, and he needs to not be in their lives. He’s not even trying anyway and he doesn’t have parental rights. (I think mentioning the kids statements here is your passive aggressive way of telling the farmer he is hurting the kids).
I’m surprised you didn’t give it a 6 month leeway and plan for adjustment, though, to see if you and the boys and the farmer would do better at the farm. These large decisions seem very rushed, and I’m still not understanding why.
Exactly!
Here are a few things I believe about marriage and family:
a) The only legitimate reasons for ending a marriage are Abuse, Adultery, Abandonment, and Addiction. None *require* ending the marriage.
b) No matter how bad things are, if you or they are not directly or immediately in danger, children are better off with a mother and a father in the home, despite a certain level of conflict, provided one of the parents is reasonably solid and emotionally healthy. B is usually more important than A, absent genuine danger.
c) I don’t believe “in sickness and in health” applies only to the flu.
My wife of more than twenty years is “mentally ill” [bi-polar, schizophrenia, borderline (BPD) spectrum]; she is regularly abusive, sometimes physically so; she has refused all sexual contact of any degree for many years.
We have a school-age daughter. I have ample grounds for an at-fault divorce in our state, but belief B prevails. It’s difficult, and occasionally awful, but our daughter is resilient and clear-thinking for her age, as in “Mama’s being crazy again. Let’s just stay out of her way until she stops; then I go give her a hug.”
And we’ll head off to check the crops, or adjust the tractor clutch, or some other such thing. A divorce for what she already understands are manageable problems would be devastating for her. It’s worth it to me to put up with a lot on her behalf.
Descriptive. Not Prescriptive. But I hope you take it into account.
I think your decision to stay is in many ways an admirable one.
However, I think you should consider, when your daughter is old enough, explaining your reasoning to her. Because your daughter may learn from your example to tolerate behavior in a relationship that may be harmful to her. She may find herself playing your role. If I had a daughter who was married to a man who was mentally ill and abusive, and his conditions could not be stabilized through medication/therapy/etc, I would pray that she would leave. (it’s interesting to note the gender angle here. I find the thought of a man staying with a mentally ill woman sort of sweet and the thought of a woman staying with a mentally ill man more unfortunate. this is a sort of sexist dichotomy that I didn’t realize I subscribed to in this context, hmm.)
Hi Penelope,
I am going through a divorce right now and as everyone says, if you don’t have to do it, please don’t. My husband is emotionally and possibly sexually abusive, and despite my repeated (and at one point, begging) him to go with me to counseling, he never would. I have two children, and the worst part is how much I miss them when they are with him (we are 50/50 time). I don’t miss my husband. We lived separate lives long before the split. Do you and the farmer live separate lives where you wouldn’t miss him if he’s gone? If you can try to make it work, please do. Time, years, brings change. If you can’t, though, know that you are not alone and we are with you. Sending hugs and support no matter what you end up doing.
Is he only abusive to you? If it’s that bad, should the kids really be with him half the time?
In one of your posts you wrote “Trauma is not as accurate an indicator of future emotional mess as much as secrets about trauma is. Secrets are what give long-term emotional bite to the trauma.” Thank you for sharing. This quote has helped me get through many things in my life and actually move past them instead of burying them somewhere, while they fester within.
Hi there Penelope. I don’t see where the real issues are being discussed. The basic issue if I understand it is – you are making all your life decisions on your son’s future as a symphony cellist. Well I am 65 years of age and a musician since I was 19. I share Miles Davis’s opinion that classical musicians can play what is written and nothing else. “They can remember, they have the ability of robots”. This is what all this sacrifice and upheaval is for? Maybe your son doesn’t want to be the next Yoyo Ma. All the best.
I missed your writing. What a lovely surprise it was to see your newest post. I wanted to read it slowly, to savor it. It was as though there was a void that I didn’t realize was there until it had been filled. Based on all the comments, I see I’m not the only one. :)
Consider life in this manner. Experiences. You’ve had some good experiences with both your husbands and some bad. Those experiences helped you grow as a person, and still you’ve managed to care for your children, hold down a career and impact other people’s lives. We are wired the way we are. Once we start to appreciate ourselves and love ourselves, we can enjoy the relationships we’ve had for a season but not NEED them to be the whole person we were meant to be. Finish raising your children and finding the inner peace in which we can only find within ourselves, and seek out your next adventure.
Is the bill the farmer is worried about the bill for your unpaid taxes to the State of Wisconsin? That is a pretty large amount you owe.
Dude! That was tasteful.
Not nice, but accurate. Her huge debts are why they never got legally married. Living with the farmer gave her day-to-day stability that she never had on her own. In the end though, the boredom overpowered the stability.
The only people who really know what a marriage is like are the two people in it. Many people have a zigzag kind of life, and that confuses observers who had, throughout their lives, the support and influence of mature, kind adults who wanted the best for them. People who grew up in imperfect but basically OK homes will never understand those who had to struggle for every crumb of sustenance and self-respect. Just do the best you can, girl. That’s all any of us can do.
I love these life lessons for your sons. If they go to college knowing how to do laundry and cooking a few things (even Crockpot meals), they’ll be golden.
Hi. I’ve been reading your blog for almost 10 years. This is the best blog post you’ve ever written. Have never seen so many things — divorce, kids, love, modern attempts at relationships, money — laid out so beautifully, then hit me in the end and bring tears to my eyes. Whatever happened with farmer, that relationship added another layer of Touch to your You. And to your writing. But sometimes things end. That’s all. They just end. And you have to explain that to the kids. And you will. Sending love and hugs and appreciation for all the energy you’ve given us, your community, over the years. Please accept some kind energy-hugs in return. All the best… – Kathleen (Santa Fe)
I say just be single for a good, long while and focus on yourself and the kids. The picture of the furniture tossed out with the animals speaks volumes about the relationship. Two individuals can be okay people, but maybe not with each other. Don’t drag it out because personally, I think you’d be better on your own. Decide quickly and stick to it. In other words piss or get off the pot. Wavering back and forth would only prolong the inevitable, in my opinion. Besides does he even miss your presence on the farm? If he’s fine there alone, then you have your answer. Also, how are you actually feeling? I know this is a tumultuous time, but in the midst of this, if you actually feel “relieved” away from the farm and the farmer then I think you have your answer too. The farm is more than a career, it’s an entire lifestyle and self identity. The farmer is the farm, so leaving it was never going to be an option for him. It’s not like other careers where people move from one job to the next. He had his place set early and for life. You and the kids will be okay. You’re fortunate enough to know how to generate sizable income to support yourself. You’re not a failure or a bad person.
I think Penelope, as maybe most ENTJs, thinks of everything in their lives, including their loved ones, as start-ups or projects they invest their time/resources in. And sometimes those things they invested a lot of time and resources in “fail” or sputter and it hurts because of all the sunk costs, but they end up jumping onto new ventures and abandoning them to prioritize other ones anyway.
Penelope, I think this will be your whole life, and you will accomplish and lose a lot because that’s part of the excitement and raison d’etre for you. Maybe marry Melissa or someone like her. Someone who won’t let you steamroll over them or allow you to convince them to give you money for your risky ventures (because you are great at getting someone other than them to do that anyway!). It is likely that you find it hard to form true intimacy with those you extract money from because they are then seen as a resource.
If you are still interested in the Farmer, I think when you pay back the Farmer, you will be on more even grounds and can start investing in him even (do not let him invest in you again lol I know you said in a previous blog post that you loved it and it makes you feel loved, but I don’t think it actually works as a dynamic for you). He will probably still be just a somewhat distant figure to the boys, but he’ll probably always be “around” on the farm if they ever need him, which is its own kind of reliable.
I wouldn’t worry about finding Hubs #3, when the time is right he’ll turn up.
If the deal with The Farmer was that you’d pay for your kids then I say you need to write him a check. The time you spent with him on his farm was good for you and your kids, and you don’t want to end that time with a deal you reneged on. If it’s a chapter that’s coming to an end then it’s time to settle up and move on.
Its fascinating. P’s advice is so refreshing because she comes from such a different mental place than most of us. She can see through the “feelings” and “bs” because as a highly functioning autistic, she doesn’t have those filters. But that all comes at a cost, as we’re seeing in this situation.
I’m praying for you Penelope. I’m married for 25 years, so I do hope you get back with the Farmer, or get some therapeutic advice from a professional. There’s nothing wrong with that or to be ashamed of.
Penny,
It is strange that no one has brought up the topic of love. Do you love the farmer? Does he express love for you? Is it fulfilling? Is it worth it? Is it enough? Are you running because you are getting too settled? If you stayed, would you be resentful? Are you blaming it on the kids when it is really you who wants to get out?
I do not mean to be objectionable, but I wonder these things after having read your blog/s for over 12 years.
Answer these questions and you will know what to do.
Mytwocentsworth
I’ve never posted a public comment this way, but I was relieved, if saddened, to read this. Do you think by taking yourself out of civilization for so many years, that you were in a way incarcerating yourself? This is what I used to call Aspen: my beautiful prison. You’re a terrific mother. And still a great catch.
You’ve helped me so much. Been checking your blog everyday so it’s good to read this, even though it’s a sad time for you. I hope you can work out your marriage. Long distance for a few years if need be.
It just goes to prove money doesn’t buy happiness. Maybe cello lessons in the city, but seriously who missed that on their death bed? Unless I’m being abused, family first.
To those posting she shouldn’t divorce unless there’s abuse, PT WAS being abused! She posted pictures of bruises the Farmer gave her awhile back! Maybe it was a one-time thing, and maybe it wasn’t. She decided to stay with him and said she knew she could be annoying, and would try to do better. It is typical of someone abused by their parents (as she was) to blame this on herself.
In normal situations Money does buy happiness- it provides stability and resources for a family to function.
Pretty sure she has a lot tied up in her other startup that she needs to cash out, maybe she hasn’t so farmer can’t access any of it. Maybe she has and used it to move. Who knows.
Nothing needs to be this dramatic considering there are three adults involved and two children. All of them guys, except one!
Are they really putting her in the position to do everything for the boys, all herself? A bit ridiculous, if you ask me.
First, decide whether you want a marriage or not. Your earlier posts say that you had very strong mixed thoughts about it. Your recent actions indicate that it is not a priority. If so, make a clean cut & let it go. Choose to use your strengths to make a good life for you & your kids.
But if you do decide that your marriage is a priority, surround yourself with people who do marriage right. People who have proven they can live together for 25 years or more. Spend time with them, notice, talk, ask, and learn. Study the sacrifices they make. Study how they negotiate. Put your mind to this. If you want to salvage things with the Farmer, you will have to think carefully about how your behavior appears to him and what his fears or hurts might be at this moment. Then evaluate how you could help mend this.
About the kids… I agree with the folks who emphasize that it’s more important for them to have a stable home and mother than all the best tutors in the world. You will not harm them if you choose a real marriage with the Farmer over tutors. Neither will you harm them if you choose a happy, stable, single-parent home. You may cause them unnecessary stress and frustration if you tell the story that you sacrificed your marriage in order to provide them with expensive tutors so that they could be the best in the world.
Finally, choose to demonstrate compassion. Don’t provoke the Farmer. Don’t provoke your kids. Don’t attempt to manipulate people. Stay calm. Take all medication as prescribed.
This is a great response. It matters a lot who you hang out with- strong families are a great support network and from my experience they will not bullshit you. I like the stories about Melissa, but I think she lacks the necessary experience that Penelope needs.
Also, very true about the kids.
Thank you for sharing this post, Penelope you are one amazing woman and that is why the farmer is still visiting, he knows this.
In the decision you’re making, please project yourself in 20 years time, think about the future, not the present, you owe it to yourself.
Just a few days ago I was wondering if I had missed your latest post in the WordPress feed and checked, but there was nothing and now, a bit later – here is it. I am really sorry to read this and I admire your braveness to share this very personal story.
I think everyone involved is very hurt and anxious. And no person is only good and bad, everyone has both sides and everyone acts in the only for him or her possible way. The Farmer is probably not able to do something else than asking for money, because of his helplessness in this situation. You are not able to do something else but the best for your children. And the boys — well they know that they are everything you’ve got now and supported you however they can. The laundry is not a burden, it is one of a few things they CAN do for you. I assume the only person unhurt right now is your ex-husband, and it is really nice from him that he visits you and the boys, but I can imagine that the Farmer would be happier if those visits are not in your flat. If you wish to rescue your relationship with the Farmer, you are better served taking care of details like this. Even the strongest men are sometimes just an adolescents.
Take care of YOU.
I will think of you and wish you good luck!
My biggest concern is that it seems to have been decided that Penelope’s son is going to pursue a career as a professional musician. A lot could go wrong…he might not be good enough or he could change his mind at some point. Not to mention, given the current political and social climate, funding for the arts is likely to drop precipitously. And classical music really is losing popularity overall. Personally I love it, but when we go to the Symphony, it’s a bunch of blue hairs (and I am getting to be one myself). So much is being sacrificed or at least put at risk, and to what end?
My other comment is that the Farmer and Penelope do not seem to be prioritizing their relationship. Penelope prioritizes her sons’ opportunities, and the Farmer prioritizes the Farm. Not sure what their number two priorities are, but if nether has prioritized the relationship, it is very unlikely to last.
Penelope,
I was happy to see a new post from you, then so sad after reading.
I wish you the best, whichever decisions you make.