Voices of the defenders of grad school. And me crushing them.
It’s pretty well established that non-science degrees are not necessary for a job. In fact, the degrees cost you too much money, require too long of a commitment, and do not teach you the real-life skills they promise.
Yet, I do tons of radio call-in shows where I say that graduate degrees in the humanities are so useless that they actually set you back in your career in many cases. And then 400 callers dial-in and start screaming at me about how great a graduate degree is.
Here are the six most common arguments they make. And why they are wrong.
1. My parents are paying.
Get them to buy you a company instead. Because what are you going to do when you graduate? You’re right back at square one, looking for a job and not knowing what to do. But if you spent the next three years running a company, even if it failed, you would be more employable than you are now, and you’d have a good sense of where your skill set fits in the workplace. (This is especially true for people thinking about business school.)
2. It’s free.
But you’re spending your time. You will show (on your resume) that you went to grad school. Someone will say, “Why did you go to grad school?” Will you explain that it was free? After all, it’s free to go home every night after work and read on a single topic as well. So in fact, what you are doing is taking an unpaid internship in a company that guarantees that the skills you built in the internship will be useless. (Here’s how to get a great internship.)
3. It’s a time to grow and get to know myself better.
If you’re looking for a life changing, spiritually moving experience, how about therapy? It’s a more honest way of self-examination—no papers and tests. And it’s cheaper. Insurance covers therapy because it’s a proven way to effectively change your personal disposition. There’s a reason insurance doesn’t cover grad school.
4. The degree makes me stand out in my field.
Yes, if you want to stand out as someone who couldn’t get a job. Given the choice between getting paid to learn the ropes on the job and paying for someone to teach you, you look like an underachiever to pick the latter. If nothing else, you get much better coaching in life if you are good enough and smart enough to get mentorship without paying for it.
There are very very few jobs that require a non-science degree in order to get the job. (And really, forget about law school if that’s what you’re thinking.) So if you don’t need the degree in order to get the job, the only possible reason a smart employer would think you got the degree instead of getting a job was because you were too scared to have to apply or you applied and got nothing. Either way, you’re a bad bet going forward.
5. I’m planning on teaching.
Forget it. There are no teaching jobs. In an interview last week, the head of University of Washington’s career center even admitted to a prospective student that getting a degree in humanities in order to get a teaching job—even in a community college—is a long-shot at best. And, the University of Washington career coach confirmed that there is enormous unemployment among people who are qualified to teach college courses but cannot get jobs doing it. This is not just a Washington thing. It’s a welcome-to-reality thing.
6. A degree makes job hunting easier.
It makes it harder. Forget the fact that you don’t need a graduate degree in the humanities to get any job in the business world. The biggest problem is that the degree makes you look unemployable. You look like you didn’t know what to do about having to enter the adult world, so you decided to prolong childhood by continuing to earn grades rather than money even though you were not actually helping yourself to earn money.
Also, you also look like you don’t really aspire to any of the jobs you are applying for. People assume you get a graduate degree because you want to work in that field. People don’t want to hire you in corporate America when it’s clear you didn’t invest all those years in grad school in order to do something like that.
7. I love being in graduate school! Everything in life is not about careers!
Sure, when you’re a kid, everything is not about careers. But when you grow up, everything is about earning enough money for food and shelter. So you need to figure out how to do that in order to make the transition from childhood to adulthood. This is why millionaires have stopped leaving their money to their kids—it undermines their transition to adulthood. But instead of making the transition, you are still in school, pretending things are fine. The problem is that what you do in school is not what you will do in a career. So if you love school, you’ll probably hate the career it’s preparing you for, since your career is not going to school.
When I met the farmer, one of the first things he told me was that he went to school for genetic biology. But in graduate school his research was in ultrasound technology for pigs. But he missed being with the pigs, which is what he wanted to do for his job. So he left school.
And every time I see the pigs on our farm I think about how he took a risk by dumping a graduate program in order to tend to pigs. I love that.
Hogs are as smart as dogs. END THE HOGOCAUST.
Having a graduate degree and being familiar with the struggles to find a job, I can only agree. I’d probably add – if you really really consider grad school, do your research first and find what you’re really passionate about. Don’t do it just because you have no idea of what you would do instead a continuing with your undergrad thesis seems acceptable. On the bright side, being a graduate student really opens up the door to the cutting-edge research and the community around, helping you to know the possibilities. Sometimes I think – if only I had the same kind of opportunities during my undergrad, I’d be much more competent to choose my further research topic.
Penelope may rethink her comment after she shows up in the emergency room and the uneducated high school drop out can’t read her chart or knows what to do while she is barely hanging on!
I have a grad degree. I wish I had the money to invest. If you are in a job that will get you promoted, go ahead. But if you are changing careers, don’t do it. It won’t matter.
I loved this post! in the absence of ‘decent’ mentorship we follow the rules, because they are based on projected fears. For me one needs to develop a set of instincts, and the educational system gets to you first, so its very difficult to embrace ‘not going to grad school’ mentality when you running against the tide you know.
For me, we need to get these idea’s across earlier on in the process – its almost too late when someone is considering going to grad school.
The system needs people who go to grad school.
I wish I had read this article in 1994, my path may have been so different. But I do hope that one always strays back to the path one was meant to walk on, even if it took you longer than you intended to get there….
But what if you work full time as you are getting a degree? I worked for a start up that paid my tuition to take graduate classes at night. I graduated with a master’s degree in American Studies – researching digital culture – which has contributed to making me quite competitive. It was an ugly two years – 70 hours a week of work on top of finding time to read books and write papers – but it happened, and I think I’m all the better for it.
There are some jobs that require a specific degree (being a therapist, as I am, requires either a masters in social work or counseling psychology, or a doctorate in psychology for some positions) and there are other jobs that look for “a master’s degree in blah blah blah or a related field” and there are other jobs that just want a master’s degree in whatever. This is fairly common in state jobs at least in NYS. You may START at a job that you don’t really need the masters for, and get promoted –but only fully qualify for your promotion because you have some kind of masters.
As someone who went to grad school because I thought it would help me get a better job after taking time off to raise my kids, I have to say that I wish I had seen this instead. Now I have huge debt and no job because I have too much education to be hired anywhere. I have taken to leaving my graduate degree off my resume just so that I will be considered for positions. Pathetic.
Sorry, but this is news? Who are these people in the humanities telling kids to go to graduate school? I have a doctorate in the humanities, and was tenured at a major research university three years ago, and no student loans, and I give anyone asking for a recommendation to grad school a two-page document that I wrote called “Don’t Go to Graduate School.” In twelve years of teaching, there is only ONE student to whom I haven’t given it, because she is the ONE student who, of all who asked, who actually has the potential to finish a PhD and get an academic position. And she was mature enough to know that even her betting on academia is a crap shoot at best.
So now it’s wrong and foolish to just want to do a degree because, God forbid, you actually enjoy the subject? I never thought anyone could ever say that students who go to university are afraid of getting a job, of the real world. I thought it was supposed to be admirable that once you have left school and college, you still want to continue your education to a degree. You make it sound like going to university is just like school. What about moving away from home? Having independence? That’s not childish. When people grow up they move away from home-degree students do that too. Life is not about careers, and neither is it about education, but each to their own, and those who wish to do a degree in their chosen subject should not be mocked for it, or belittled. When I leave university, I don’t think for one second I will get my dream job straight away, but university prepares you for that, or at least the English universities do, I don’t know about American ones.
I agree with Penelope about Grad school. Someone figured out you could tell people there were zillions of jobs available in the design professions and charge a lot of money for the degrees. I have had friends in other careers who want to work in graphic design and they ask me if I have a graduate degree. I say no, that I learned everything on the job and started out as an assistant to a designer. I tell them to start at the bottom, at a low salary, find a good mentor, and put together a great portfolio.
If you already have an undergraduate degree from an Ivy League university you will look like a dilettante if you go to Grad school in a completely different profession than your original major. Instead you can take courses that are available at low cost online and put together a portfolio of your work.
Your therapist went to graduate school. And I would not recommend anyone seeing a therapist who didn’t.
I got my MBA from a top-three school and tripled my salary. I don’t know of another thing I could have done in the year and a half I spent in b-school that would have increased my earnings that quickly. Now I have security and something I can fall back on if and when I do decide to take risks with my career. For me, grad school was a great option since I was feeling directionless in my career and had no big ideas for how to get on a more fulfilling track.
I’m a year behind here, but I have four things to say (or ask): 1) for the most part, I agree with PT when it comes to the soft skill Masters degrees; 2) I would like to hear what PT has to say about science degrees, especially since all of them do require specific levels of licensure; 3) considering that many jobs do require a Masters, even if getting it is expensive and could be seen as a waste of time compared to on the job skills, then wouldn’t the argument still stand that if you don’t want to re-invent the wheel by starting a company and plan to work for a large company, that you’ll need a Masters? 4) How does this apply to minorities and women? Do you think either groups can get ahead in specific fields without a Masters? Honestly, as a black woman, I’ve been informed by many mentors that to get ahead, I need to consider having a Masters, even in a soft field. Would love to hear your thoughts, and thanks for posting this article!
so… what do you think, then, of careers that almost require you to have a Master’s degree?
I agree that getting a degree just to get a degree is a dumb idea. I am about to finish grad school, but this was a goal of mine; I intentionally put off grad school in my specialized field in order to gain the experience that would get me a higher level job once I got my degree. Grad school was something necessary for my field, Industrial Psychology, which is in high demand and a great area if you are cut out for it. I see people all the time going into the same degree though, that have no business experience whatsoever. They will most likely get an entry level job, or become one of the team members in my field that people complain can’t pull their weight. My guess is that it’s not about the work ethic of those folks most of the time, but they just don’t know what else to do to pull their weight, for lack of experience. This becomes tolerated, and they continue as a disposable employee. So getting an MBA without solid business experience to beef up your resume – bad idea. I think strategically, though, a Masters is a good idea if pursued at the correct time and in a degree that is necessary for the job you want.
I was asked to read your blog by someone who is close to you and immediately the one that caught my attention was this one. I can see your point of view regarding grad school, however, I think that for those that did attend graduate school the benefit is obvious.
It is simply an experience that offers so much more than what you expect to get out of it. It teaches life lessons, real life scenarios and professional ways of interacting with other individuals who may not see eye to eye with you. For someone who has this many followers, I think it would be beneficial to always give people two views on a matter, as opposed to bashing them. For example, do not bash graduate students because you don’t agree with graduate school (especially is you don’t have a master’s degree yourself). Can you say “Sour Grape”? It makes you loose credibility in your intellect and people skills, Penelope.
On another note, have you considered how our country is a system? The amount of people who work in educational institutions is tremendous in the US. Deterring people to pursue a higher education jeopardizes many jobs in universities (from janitors to professors), not to mention lowers the intellectual standard of our society. If you don’t appreciate graduate studies that’s fine, but as a “leader” don’t try to stop others who look to you for “wisdom” regarding higher education.
Not interested at all in your blog. Not impressed by you. I’m sure you mean well, but for “us educated folks” there are many other interesting blogs out there to read.
Based on what I’ve seen in the past 7 years within higher Ed aligns very well with what Penelope has stated. The scary part for me is that I’m witnessing it first hand in high-tech engineering areas. These fields are responsible for maintaining the US’s technical edge. These fields should be filled with the best and the brightest minds – this is not the case across the board and regardless of institution. Instead what I’m finding is that high-tech growth is occurring much faster in private industry. For right now, my graduate degree makes sense because its in a high-tech field and I controlled what I spent my time researching and ultimately developing. When it comes time for me to hire, I will tell you based on my experiences I would hire an engineer with a masters degree over a bachelors only if the masters candidate could demonstrate their research topic was well thought out and driven by themselves and not their advisor. As for PhD. Never. I would immediately pass unless I knew them personally – in which case I know of 1 PhD engineer I would hire. People may argue, but regardless, higher-Ed has become so irrelevant even in these critical high-tech fields – which is a major problem. A biomedical engineer responsible for inventing major components for a well-know robotic surgical platform once told me “researching in academia and getting your masters is a complete waste of time. I’ll tell you what you’ll need to know when you get here…” How is the US going to maintain its technical edge if the people responsible for educating the people responsible for developing technology have become so irrelavent they have left the burden of education and technical development entirely to industry? No excuses. Get it fixed or get the system out of the way.
You recognize therefore significantly when it comes to this matter, made me personally imagine it from numerous various angles. Its like men and women aren’t fascinated unless it’s something to do with Girl gaga! Your personal stuffs great. All the time care for it up!
I’m surprised no one has mentioned this one because I think it’s the main reason to go to grad school in humanities: networking. it opens doors, it gives you access (many jobs require a postgrad so if you don’t have it you won’t pass the HR screening). the connections you get through professors, students and access to internships in grad school is what you really pay for.
These comments are hilarious. I work in the Architecture, Engineering and Construction industry (AEC). EVERYBODY has a minimum of a Masters degree. Guess who usually does not: CAD drafters, HR, admins and old timers (all non-management track positions). Almost all the executives under 70 years of age in almost every AEC company have an M.S. minimum. MBA’s and PhD’s are also common. Many of the higher end projects require some kind of exposure to certain topics that can only be taught and learned in Grad school. If those topics were not taught or learned in universities, it would mean that companies would have to spend years training B.S. level employees while they were on the job. That solutions is both IMPRACTICAL AND IMPOSSIBLE.
We do a lot of heathcare projects and I see the same on that side of the fence too with thier staff’s credentials. I think better advice would be for people with a Bachelors to wait and attend grad school later once their career track has ben determined and the extra education can then strengthen the rest of thier exisiting career, but even them many jobs that I know of and would realistically pursue require a Masters to get an interview.
I guess Penelope has access to a “time machine” where she can gain work experience in the 1970’s and then bring back outdated advice to profit on in the present.
Can I get a quick trip on that time machine of yours Penelope? I have some stocks I’d like to invest in while I am back there sight seeing the basis for your career advice.
What about going to graduate school part-time? I worked full-time while going to school at night for an MBA and launching my own venture.
It is a 90+ hour week, but you get exceptionally good at time management and my life was a hyper accelerated cycle of learn implement reflect for 3 years.
I feel like I got 9 years of experience in 3, and would recommend this path to anyone with the tolerance for it.
A lot of it depends on the individual; a graduate degree does pay off for some people whereas a few may struggle to find a job even with one. If it is your dream to become a lawyer then it would make sense to go to grad school. It’s important to find a balance between a degree you can afford and a career that you will enjoy working in for a long time.
http://www.trident.edu/
If people don’t get advanced degrees they go on to become Republicans. So please… go to school; it’s worth it.
Absolutely! Education is not only about making a buck; it’s about knowing more about the world you live in and obtaining the critical reasoning skills and time for self-reflection necessary to use that information to better society and one’s self. Great thinkers from the ancient Greeks to Newton, Copernicus, Einstein, Salk, Mead, etc. all cared about reason and knowledge first and foremost. In Penelope’s worldview, they’re just a bunch of historical losers.
The article seems to be awfully closed to the possibility of exceptions… or those not following the traditional grad school path (i.e. 4 year undergrad then straight to grad school). Actually, it completely eschews a whole swath of people who don’t fit into the career college student crowd…
How about someone who gets their masters or PHD while gainfully employed?
I would never take advice from someone who raises such smart, sensitive animals as those in your picture only to kill and eat them. You seem like quite a mean person.
Penelope, your various blogs are somewhat conflicting in their philosophies. From your homeschooling blog, you write:
Stop telling your kids that their reason for learning is to get a good job and have a good adult life. Their reason for learning is that they are curious and that learning is fun.
This philosophy should hold for our whole lives, not just our childhood. Go to graduate school because it’s fun to learn. Period.
Wow. You’re an idiot. I guess it makes sense for privileged white people to not go to grad school because they’re doing it as a means to just get another shitty job that they don’t want to do for the rest of their life. For those of us with plans, plans that involve graduate school and doing the things we love for the rest of our lives– for those of us who are willing to work hard and stand out and pay dues, we’ll enjoy it and do what we need to succeed. Thanks for thinning the ranks of ofays in grad school, ofay.
Ha, I just posted on Facebook yesterday:
“Tell your kids not to go to grad school. it will ruin their lives.”
In a recent article Penelope changes her tune. Her discussion on specialization trumps this little rant about masters degrees. A masters degree is a specialization, and according to Penelope specialization is something successful people do.
I would also take with a grain of salt anyone who can make such startling and stark comments without citing her sources.
Whilst I haven’t got a university degree yet (I assume that’s what thi is), I disagree.
My physics teacher said that when his friend graduated with the same degree as him (ath the same time), my teacher went into teaching, and the other physicist works as an investment banker in London.
My psychiatrist told me that few people actually use their degree to get a particular job, rather, it’s like a general ticket, enabling you to get multiple good jobs (to choose from).
It shows employers that you have the desire to be more, do more, work harder for longer and that you get absorbed into what you do.
So wether I go on to study sociology or genetics, it will definetly be one of them.
Hi, I know I’m responding here long after the fact, but I’ve just recently discovered you Penelope. Oh, how right you are! In many ways Penelope, you and I are very much a like. I grew up in a metropolitan city, and went to college where I met my farmer husband. I married my farmer the summer after I graduated with a bachelor of science degree, and dual majors, and moved to a town of less than 1000 people. Talk about cultural shock !!! Thirty five years and three kids later, I am still married to the farmer and living on the farm — underemployed in my off-farm jobs. Nearly 20 years ago, in an attempt to over-educate myself, I acquired my master’s degree. Since the university is three hours away, I obtained my master’s degree through an online distance education program. I was pretty impressed with myself accomplishing this, but what I soon discovered is that the residents of the community, county, and part of the state we live in weren’t nearly as impressed with me as I am. My one regret is that I didn’t take the teaching certification route. My degree was in education, but it did not qualify me to teach. In the years since, I have been only able to get jobs that do not require a degree. I do have a medication aide certification which is the field I’ve been working in for more than 15 years. Anyone who is over 18, and willing to pay out a couple hundred bucks can get this certification. I was lucky in that my first job in the area provided the training as part of the job. So, I saved us some money there :) We won’t talk about the several thousand dollars my husband spent on me to get my master’s degree. Oh and by the way, my parents did pay for my undergraduate degree, so luckily my husband didn’t marry into a lot of student loans. My parents always felt that their daughters should have a college degree to fall back on. Well, hopefully we won’t need to find out whether that is true or not. My husband did get a bachelor’s degree in agronomy, then came back home and helped his Dad farm. We’re not real sure if any of his college education has helped all that much either. There are farmers with a lot more assets than we have and no college degree. My husband is a somewhat happy camper farmer, and we’re finally to the point where I can feel like I can cut back on hours on my off-farm job, and take the time to clean, and organize my home, do my crafting hobbies, and enjoy and visit our soon-to-be first grandchild 1500 miles away. Someday, I would like to tell you about all of the struggles I have had through the years in trying to find a decent paying, off-farm job. I’m fairly content in my current job, but it has taken me working there ten years to increase my hourly wage by $4 an hour. I still make less than $15 an hour, and have limited benefits. Being self-employed in farming, we pay for our own health insurance. The monthly premiums for us and our teenage daughter is now well over $1,000 a month. It also has a $10,000 deductible. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not really complaining. I’m just trying to make people aware. The grass isn’t always greener on the other side of the pasture.
I think this article displays what is wrong with student life at present, especially in the UK where i’m from. What happened to taking an interesting degree in a subject you love just because you want to.
Too many people take a degree to get a job, almost like picking an off the peg suit. I get the takeaway message is that careers are forged, not bought.
How about being a graduate in other countries, say, in China?
Amen to all this. I wish more young people would see the “opportunity cost” they are sacrificing by pursuing quite frankly any degree beyond the basic knowledge they need to successfully start up their own company. Had I did what I am doing now right out of high school I would have saved a lot of time and money. Sure, college is fun, but so is the prospect of retiring early now that my life is established and I can actually enjoy it. I don’t think higher education should be avoided altogether, I still take classes now, but I cherry pick ones that are relevant to my business or that I specifically want to take, and don’t even think about forming them into a coherent degree. I hate seeing so many kids’ entrepreneurial spirit crushed by the prospect of getting more letters after their name. Thanks for your honesty.
So I didn’t listen to this post (or my gut) and I decided to go to grad school. Now halfway through my first semester I’ve decided to quit. Should I finish out this semester or just quit cold turkey and move on?
Hmm, ok. Great advice for a lot of people who should not go to grad school. Then there’s the rest of us. Sadly, if you are in a field like history, you need a certain amount of knowledge before you can do anything in the field. A bachelor’s degree just isn’t deep enough or specialized enough.
I do believe that a large amount of history PhDs made the wrong decision. It’s a huge investment of a multitude of resources that just does not pay.
However, I’m getting a master’s degree at a public university, where it only costs 3500 to go full time (money I saved up by working my butt off between grad and undergrad is going toward this amount). Here is what I’m getting from this experience:
1. Connections. Networking is key in any field. I am working very hard right now, but am a good enough student that I don’t feel weird asking for letters of recommendation. You just don’t get the same chance to form rapport with professors in most affordable, overstuffed state colleges and universities, but grad school classes are rarely more than 10 or 12 people so my professors know who I am as a student. Therefore, as I approach graduation, it would not be out of the question for me to ask some of my professors if they know anyone who works in the state I am moving to.
2. Knowledge. As I said earlier, nothing quite beats knowing what on earth you are talking about.
3. Career services. I will be availing myself of this at both institutions I have attended.
4. Job experience. Yeah, yeah, it’s very hard to get a job but hey- it’s not impossible. Especially if you are willing to work in a high school. Grad school offers you the chance to intern in TEACHING, and not just in an office setting. TAships, grader positions, and also jobs working at the campus tutoring center are all examples of this.
Now, here is what I totally agree with:
No one should go straight to grad school after undergrad at the age of 23. I’m 30, and I didn’t start attending college until I was 25. As a (slightly) older student with plenty of life experience, I have been better able to navigate school and jobs with the proper amount of emotional maturity and professionalism. There really is no substitute for life experience.
There are valid reasons for Grad School, I can think of three of them. #1 – its better than being unemployed. #2 – it qualifies one to teach at most Jr/community colleges. #3 – it is a skill refresher. For #1 – When I graduated from college in 1985 with a computer science degree it took me over a year to find a computer programming job, I wanted to stay in the midwest and most of the country was not hiring computer programmers, they were laying them off. I did keep myself working during that time period but not as a programmer. I could of used that time to get a masters degree. #2 – if one looks at most Jr/Community colleges a minimin requirement is a masters degree. #3 – Grad school provides a skill refresher for those in their 30s/40s and helps one round out their education. In 2005 (at age 42 and 20 years as a programmer) I decided to go for my MBA, one class at a time. It took me 5 years (11 classes) and it allowed me to work on 10 different projects with people from all over the US (two was overseas) and with several different backgrounds and age groups. My company paid 100% of the cost. I did pickup a few new skills from my projects that I use with my current job. The main reason why I decided to spend the time was for my future, I plan to one day semi retire as a part time college instructor and one never knows when one will need to switch careers, and it is better to have a Grad degree and not use it than to need a Grad degree and not have it. I still have 10+ years before I semi-retire, plenty of time for a career or company change.
Penelope, I love this! I take #1 to heart. I debated getting my master’s degree in education for years before I finally quit teaching and borrowed money from family to start my own school.
I realized that my graduate degree would only increase my debt and keep me working for institutions that I didn’t believe in philosophically.
So, I didn’t go to grad school. I opened my own school instead – and believe me, I am learning more through this experience than I ever could have by going back to school.
There were many people that viewed what I did as risky. I didn’t think so – the risk of borrowing money to go to grad school to then spend my life working for others for a purpose I didn’t believe in was much more unattractive to me than the risk of opening and business and learning what I could through the experience of thinking for myself and working with a community. Even if my school closes, I will have learned through the process and have more of a chance of building a sustainable business model for the future. What I’m doing now gives me more of an opportunity to actually develop my ideas on what education could be.
Some careers may need graduate school, but there are many that do not. There is so much to learn by simply engaging with the world around you. It’s not necessary to learn by going to school, and it’s unfortunate that so many believe that is the only place they can go to learn.
I happened to come across this blog perhaps a decade too late but I enjoyed reading it and the comments. I think Penelope makes some logical points regarding graduate school which certainly can’t hurt to consider before investing in a Master’s level education. I feel I spent time and money in an aimless manner because I didn’t closely investigate my educational path. I returned to graduate school after working a few years in the human services field. I was adamant about taking some time to work after receiving my B.A. to get some real world experience. It helped and I was able to save some money in order to afford much of grad school along with the aid of an assistantship and some loans. Unfortunately looking back I chose a field (Recreation Therapy) that didn’t fit the lifestyle I envisioned. Part of this was my failure to closely investigate the field and some was the misleading marketing of the program. I did learn and was challenged in many ways. I certainly was able to find employment and I do believe having the Master’s degree propelled me through the hiring process but in terms of compensation and the types of opportunities in that field I was disappointed considering how I took time off to return to school and spent some of my hard earned money to do so. In this regard I certainly understand Penelope’s perspective. That degree in many ways was not worth the return on investment. Now I’m nearly 40 with 2 young children and the career/job environment I had envisioned is not really available to me. I wanted to have the option of working part-time so I could be home with my kids a couple days a week and not require full-time childcare. I wanted to work independently and basically contract my skills but Recreation Therapy is not a reimbursable service so I’m either stuck working a full-time job in a hospital or I can’t really practice the skills I learned. In fact much of the last 11 years since completing that M.S. I moved into program management and administrative positions rarely using any therapy skills. I have decided, carefully this time, to return to graduate school for a degree in a field that is well-defined and protected by licensure requirements. I will admit I’m a bit hesitant given my prior experience and skeptical but I can’t imagine continuing in my current field. I’ve worked in mental health for 15 years and have been laid off twice due to my desire to work part-time and constant cuts to behavioral health services. I see no other option if I want the control and income I desire but to return to graduate school. I think after looking carefully at programs and being older I would recommend evaluating programs in terms of time, design (i.e. online, part-time), costs and of course income potential. I did not do this first go since I was younger and simply believed having successfully competing a Master’s program would lead to good things. As many have posted on here certain fields you must have a Master’s degree and license to practice but typically these are also fields that are well-represented by professional organizations who protect the field in terms of educational requirements, pay and who can perform the job. I just wished I had known and made better choices when I was younger prior to marriage and children.
Holy Canoli – you nailed it. I just took my first grad class at 40 and was debating continuing or stopping. It would take me 5 years, hurt my career while getting it. And then how many years would I use it..
Anyway thanks for this perspective – this put words to what I could not quite grasp…
I totally agree with you. I don’t believe in grad school either. The way to improve yourself is from true experiences. And grad schools do not really teach that. Everything is always based on experiences.
All you really need to learn how to do is: do it (experience), network and sell. These can be done in an internship (college years) or by working in someone else’s business or your own. Not only is this the best education, but you’re also making money doing it vs. paying off loans!
Most entrepreneurs, innovators and folks with creative minds do not have a graduate degree.
On one hand I totally agree with what you’re saying but on the other as a recent MBA grad. I can honestly say that going through the program I selected at Woodbury University in Burbank, CA (Yes this is a promo of sorts). My program allowed me to grow as a person/professional and look at things differently. But of course if there was a way for me to have learned what I did minus the debt I’m in, plus the lack of an amazing job I thought I would get hell yyyyeeeessssss!!! I would have gone another way, but the truth is I loved the experience and unlike some, I had/have a full-time job, and was in the process of adopting my little cousin while finishing my MBA. Unlike #7 I I was not trying to avoid being an adult. I sincerely got my MBA so that I could have an edge on my competition, but these old farts who’ve been in the same job for the past 20 years won’t leave!! So school is the best option for me.
Good post. I’m glad you excluded non-science degrees because there are some highly regulated fields where you absolutely need a graduate degree in the field or you not only won’t be but you legally cannot be considered for a job.
I feel like to some people attending graduate school or even undergraduate is their opportunity to freely explore learning and pursue their interests.
By attending public and most private schools with direct instruction, many kids miss out on this opportunity when they are supposed to be learning independently and exploring at ages 0-18. So instead of preparing kids for life, grade school is extending their childhood another 4-10 years.
I have a humanities master–and no, I wouldn’t recommend it for anybody–UNLESS–you thoroughly enjoy scholarship. The one skill a graduate program in a non-STEM field affords you, and that is rigorous, original research, i.e. learning to back up what you say with arguments and evidence. There are a lot of opportunities to apply this skill, not only in the corporate world, but in public service (where I am). The payoff WILL NOT be immediate, of course, but years down the road.
For me, graduate school was not an extension of my childhood, as I didn’t even begin college until more than half a decade in the military. It was not about doing work and getting grades, but about original research, which I genuinely enjoyed (and the fact that I still had some GI BIll left). I’m a librarian now, and of course, I had to get another MA for that. But for those considering a humanities MA–look not at how it will benefit you immediately after graduation (it won’t, unless you manage to get a steady teaching gig) but in the very long run. And my first MA gives me that edge that others in my field just don’t have.
Great post and I tend to agree almost without exception – almost. I think there’s an angle to grad school you haven’t considered (or have, and dismissed it) which isn’t really negated by any of your excellent points. Just…interest in a subject. I got a graduate degree in medieval history – worked my ass off as a bartender to pay for it on my own, did really well, finished on time, filled my brain with really cool stuff, and had a blast. I’ve never had, and never regretted not having, a job in the field. (A career in the academy? I don’t think so.) My current job as a creative director, which I love, can hardly be seen as related to my degree – though I assure you the degree hasn’t hurt. At the time, I simply wanted to know a lot more about something that fascinated me – and still does. I don’t think this case contradicts any of your points – except the meta-point…that grad school in the humanities is never worth it. Thanks for disrupting conventional thought on this.
Thank you for sharing! I really enjoyed reading the post.
Hmmm,
Do you know that having a PhD can signal to a company that you are self-motivated, are naturally curious and eager to learn, possess well-honed critical thinking skills, have a good work ethic, have perseverance, etc.? For instance, a science PhD can find a fulfilling career in industry or patent law if academic research is not your goal, and many consulting firms specifically recruit PhDs for their general skill at analyzing and solving problems.
For most people, bachelor’s degrees alone mean being stuck in decent, but ultimately uninteresting and dead-end jobs. Middle management is the plateau here. Sure, you can become an enterpreneur, but successful enterpreneurs like you are the exception and not the rule. Most new businesses fail.
Besides, what is wrong with studying something that you are passionate about? Not that there aren’t many things wrong with how graduate education is structured in the US, but I find your arguments trite, highly situationally specific, and condescending. The person you describe here is a composite of your impression of people you’ve had conversations with, and not a real person. Not everyone who goes to grad school is an emotionally stunted dreamer who wants to avoid real adult life.