Veteran’s Day should be cancelled
Both WWII veterans I've known personally have largely ignored Veteran's Day. But I never thought about it, really. I thought it was a holiday for them, not me. Lately, though, I think I do have an opinion. I think there is plenty wrong with Veteran's Day.
1. What about all the other casualties of war?
For example, my mom and dad had me immediately after college graduation as a way to avoid the draft. I ask my mom and dad now how they could have been so incompetent as parents, yet so interesting in the world (really, everyone loves being around my mom, except her kids. It's uncanny.) They each say that they had kids too young. They were totally unprepared.
So I see the war ruining many lives at home, but we only talk about people who fought at the front. It doesn't make any sense to me. War ripples throughout society.
And what about all the women who keep things going while men go off to fight? What about the army wives who move their families around endlessly as the government moves their husbands? What about the kids who lived in 20 cities and never learned how to make a friend? What about the high divorce rate for people in the armed forces? Why are we only thanking veterans for giving their time? What about all the people who gave up safe, secure lives because one family member was in the armed forces?
2. Veterans of WWII did not “give their lives for their country.”
What else were we going to do in WWII? Stay out of war? Let Hitler kill two million more people? Let all of Russia starve to death? There comes a point when we are moral beings and we have to get involved because we could not live with ourselves if we didn't. During WWII, women took over industry, and men went overseas to fight. Didn't the women give up a lot in their lives as well? Why do we not celebrate the sacrifice on the domestic front, too? Why do we not celebrate the people who waited in line for food in order to ensure food for the troops overseas? Veterans alone do not fight a war: they do it as a team, with non-veterans.
3. Veterans of Vietnam hated Vietnam.
How can we celebrate people being veterans of Vietnam when they were forced to go there with a draft? It seems disingenuous to me to force people to fight in a war they think is totally stupid, and then tell them we celebrate their sacrifice. People want to be celebrated for what they choose to do, for what they are proud of, for what they feel like they did well. Vietnam veterans think Vietnam sucked. We can honor them by not fighting stupid wars anymore.
Of course, we are not doing that.
4. Veterans of recent wars do not go in order to serve our country.
Okay. Please. I'm telling you the truth here: Anyone who has a great career ahead of them, and makes enough money to support their family, and is genuinely admired for how well they have navigated their life so far, is unlikely to enlist in the armed forces.
It's telling that the military has to lure recruits with free college to get them to risk their lives. The people who will risk their lives do not perceive that they have a way to pay for college.
How about in honor of Veteran's Day, we give citizens a way to earn a good living besides leaving their kids for nine months at a time and risking their lives at war?
So Veteran's Day is predicated on the idea that people choose to give their lives for this country. And it's false. People give their lives for values they believe in. And in recent history, that does not include the wars we fight. People are selling their lives for a chance to reach their American Dream.
5. We should replace Veteran’s Day with National Service Day
We need to think through again what Veteran's Day means. And then cancel it. President Obama had a great idea calling for a National Day of Service – where we all get out and do service as a way to celebrate service. While he did not intend for it to be a yearly event, I think this is a fine replacement for Veteran's Day. It is a way to celebrate service, and encourage service, without the hypocrisy of war.
There have always been infinite ways to serve the ideas of the United States without going to war: men who give up high-paying jobs to run for office, women who campaigned for the right to vote, parents who sacrifice health insurance in order to work at a non-profit that can't afford insurance. These people give resources and take risks in order to make the world a better place. We should use National Service Day to thank these people for their service. Because what we're doing now—celebrating military service over everything else—is teaching people that one is more valuable than the other.
I read this post and though uh oh, Penelope really stepped in it this time. It’s a very provocative post and I can see that you have presented what you consider to be a hard truth.
What troubles me is that fleeting moment where you refer to your parents as “incompetent.” Incompetent is neglecting to teach your kids not to talk to strangers or letting them go outside without a coat in the winter. You were betrayed by the very people who were supposed to protect you in the most destructive and unspeakable ways. I can’t imagine what it must be like to handle that both personally and in relation to them, but the hard truth in this post is the one you are not looking at.
I actually expected a more balanced set of comments here. It’s true that I am not an expert on military anything. But I am an expert on work, and how we value it, and how we recognize each other for contributing to society.
I don’t understand how we can ever talk about the nuts and bolts of something like Veteran’s Day if every time we talk, someone thinks someone’s honor is being defiled.
Look, if you lead a good life and contribute to the world around you, no discussion can take that away. Discussions are harmless to individual lives. I am frustrated that every time we talk about issues of the military we have to toot the horn of those who work there.
I don’t believe that some jobs are more important than others. I think we are all important in our own lives and in the lives of people we love. And we all owe it to ourselves to perforce services to the world around us.
We do not need to celebrate some jobs over others.
Penelope
I’m actually surprised at how many positive comments you got, I was expecting a complete flogging. If we were talking about INSTITUTING a Veteran’s Day, I’d expect a more balanced discussion. But since you are talking about TAKING AWAY, emotions are going to run a lot hotter by those who are being “deprived” (not that this isn’t a day that everybody gets off anyway, but you are suggesting a diminution of honor, and honor is KEY in a military mindset).
This discussion is moot. No politician with even the weakest survival instinct will consider such a move until just about every veteran or near relative of a veteran has passed away. Now THAT would be an occasion to celebrate (of course, since I have brothers who are veterans, I won’t be around), as long as we maintain our freedoms as well as the peace – peace in bondage would be a tragedy.
Don’t be afraid to come out with your viewpoints, though – even when you are way off base people including you are bound to learn something.
“I don’t understand how we can ever talk about the nuts and bolts of something like Veteran’s Day if every time we talk, someone thinks someone’s honor is being defiled. ”
I can’t agree more. It’s so frustrating! Conversations should be enlightening and challenging and people just take it too personally. In all honestly, not all troops should be honored. Some kill innocent people-and some get caught, some don’t. I have the same problem when I want to have an enlightening conversation about religion with someone who values their religion – they can’t grasp the idea of talking about: 1) different religions 2) the idea that religion is a fallacy 3) the thought that religion kills more than it saves.
It’s awful. People truly are ignorant and selfish. (sorry-I had to rant off your comment…)
This struck me as odd in this thread…”In all honestly, not all troops should be honored. Some kill innocent people-and some get caught, some don’t.” Is this an argument for eliminating the observance? Would you also argue for the abolishment of speed limits because “some people drive too fast and some don’t?”. Benjamin Franklin was a womanizer and not a very good father but should we suggest that he was “no-good” as one of the founders of our nation because of these (relatively minor) flaws?
Do you hate your neighbors because someone in your town killed someone?
Penelope, I am glad that you believe everyone’s job is important, but Veteran’s Day is about acknowledging the willingness of people to put themselves in a position that is a notch above the rest NOT in terms of value, but in terms of danger. Teaching is one of the most important and undervalued professions in our society, but I know few teachers who can honestly say they are risking life and disability by teaching. And those in the military make very little money compared the private sector, even with college being paid for, and they have to deal with difficult beauraucracies (sp?) sometimes to get their benefits. While most people’s jobs are very worthwhile to society at large, I do think it is important that we recognize those who have chosen professions where people are risking a bit extra to serve the public, often with much lower financial rewards than could be found elsewhere- police, firefighters, military.
You say: “I don’t understand how we can ever talk about the nuts and bolts of something like Veteran’s Day if every time we talk, someone thinks someone’s honor is being defiled.” but yet your points #2, #3 and #4 are pretty general attacks on the values of service members.
Your overall tone seems to indicate you are pretty generally anti-war. I can relate to the sentiment having helped organized protests against the most recent Iraq War. But one of the most important lessons of Vietnam is learning to distinguish between the policy makers in Washington and the grunts on the ground who gave up their freedoms to make personal decisions such as whether or not to go to war. They have given up the right to question it so freely as you and I can so that when they truly ARE NEEDED for our protection, they can function together as a cohesive unit to get the job done. Wanting to stop future senseless wars is an honorable goal, but it should not come at the expense of no longer acknowledging the sacrifice of those who serve in the military- most ESPECIALLY because sometimes that sacrifice is so woefully misused by those in power.
– Flaming liberal
What Nathan said!
How about suicide bombers? They sacrifice their lives for a cause they deeply believe in. They risk their lives for their families and communities. Presumably they are not in it for financial rewards.
Now, I’m not exactly equating members of the military with suicide bombers. But your rationale for why veterans should be celebrated seems very off. Just because someone risks his or her life doesn’t make their action moral or good for society. Instead of indiscriminately praising physical bravery, we need to be asking bigger questions about why those types of actions are deemed necessary in the first place and looking for alternatives first. Physical bravery and the morbidity it presupposes should be a last resort.
“We do not need to celebrate some jobs over others.”
Then don’t.
There is literally nothing stopping you from not celebrating a holiday. Nothing is being forced on you. You aren’t being forced to a rally or a parade. The US government recognizes the holiday because veterans served the US government (sometimes in some really awful circumstances). Why doesn’t that make sense to you? It seems completely logical for the government to honor folks who have done so much to keep it intact, just like we should be doing for our workforce.
Is this seriously what you’re using your “expertise” for? Generating bad ideas based on really faulty logic? You honestly can’t be that surprised about the response if you considered your point of view from the standpoint of the government as the employer.
I’ve read a lot of weird stuff from you but this is the first where I have to question whether you really believe this or if you’re just doing it for some attention from other blogs.
I thought your post was full of good ideas. Nice work.
Because you are a moron Erin.
Your last comment shows that you don’t know much about rewards and recognitions.
You are good at sharing your experiences; you could show more bravery if you write about being an incest victim, as you have claimed, and how to get along with perpetrators and enablers.
I must agree that although we do a great job of honoring those that serve our nation (whether for money or passion), we completely ignore the other sacrifices that are made to ensure the safety of our troops – at least on a national level..
One of my concerns with the service is where they get these kids. And how, we may honor them after they’ve died, but we certainly don’t honor them when they need medical care or a decent pay for their families to pay the bills while they are gone. Much like you meditation article – we really do need to be in the now when it truly comes to honoring our soldiers. (even the homeless drunks that are really just suffering from a lifetime of PTSD and didn’t receive help after serving)..
I don’t know … if we didn’t have Veteran’s Day when would all of the mattresses go on sale?
As an educated (before joining the military) Veteran, I STRONGLY disagree with your perspective on this, but truly enjoyed reading it. I think you likely have a perspective shared by many, but that few would ever consider making public.
I’m grateful we live in a country where it is safe to do that!
My issue is with this post (and I do enjoy your blog) is someone speaking about Viet Nam who was not around during that time, and doesn’t know first hand what that era was like. My Uncle is a decorated Veteran of Viet Nam who continued to serve until retirement. He also went in after college as an Officer. Although I do not agree with his very conservative political views, I can remember and completely respect his service in Viet Nam and am happy to acknowledge his sacrifices. I remember what that War was like, growing up with it on TV, but never for once did anyone I know hated the servicemen who went. It was a very charged period of time in America with Black Panthers, Patty Hearst, Feminism, SLA, SDS, and the Youth International Party – a lot of angry youths wanting to change the world. Viet Nam became the symbol of the revolt against “the man” in control. I am not for war, and do not want my son to enlist, but I can respect those that do, and I have no problem thanking them for making it possible for me to respond to your post on a day that honors brave, caring, strong men like my Uncle.
I’m not sure the comments were any less balanced than the post itself, which didn’t really speak to both sides of the story, so I think you did reap what you sowed on that.
However, I’m intrigued by the thought that no job is more important than another? Surely you’ve read Huselid’s research that would dispute that idea. I love my job, but I feel confident that a medical doctors job is far more valuable and important to society as a whole than mine. She saves lives, I don’t.
I’m not saying that her happiness is any less important than mine, it’s not, but if we’re going to have the difficult, honest discussions as a society, we have to realize that yes, some roles are more important than others.
Oh, no – I’m sure that being a blogger is just as important as being a medical doctor. Or a nurse. Or the President. Or a soldier.
Oh and the women who now serve too – thank you!
This was 4 min of my life that I will never get back. Absolutely ridiculous.
Amen. She is out of her mind. Maybe a cow hit her.
“Read the papers. Keep aware while you’re lounging in your leather chair.And if things don’t look so good,shake your head and knock on wood.” Paper Mache by Burt Bacharach
Thoughts:
1) Many good comments here, a number echoing my own. I appreciate that while many (like me) were disappointed and offended by the superficiality of thought in the piece, they were nonetheless civil and found points of concurrence.
2) Mainstream American society (as represented today by Ms. Trunk) continues to grow more and more detached from the realities of the world outside its own existence, and as such has no concept of just how unjust and uncaring it can be outside the “cocoon” many members create for themselves-like living on a farm, working from home, flying and meeting with only those you choose. Stay in your shell, lob careless words at those who choose to stand for something greater than themselves. It is easy to forget that the freedom to live such a life comes at a cost-a cost fewer and fewer pay. Certainly not Ms. Trunk. I believe in good-I believe in evil. I believe in diplomacy, in collaboration. I also believe in vigilance, and in preparing to sacrifice for those things I value.
3) The military is an instrument of public policy. If you have a bone to pick, take it up with your elected officials in Washington. By the way, did you vote?
I think the problem Penelope so brashly demonstrates is the disconnect between what the general public observes the role of the military as, and the actual role of the military. The goal is to protect the citizens of this country from foreign aggression. Because the United States has the ability to project substantial force when issues of national security arise, many fail to see the role the individual Soldier plays in allowing the public to carry out life in a free, peaceful environment here at home.
The reality is that there are indeed people in this world who would love nothing better than to skin you and your family alive. Now we can debate whether or not active interdiction trumps passive defense, but the reality is that the threat is real and won’t disappear no matter how deep we bury our heads in the sand. Regardless of the situation, the military and former vets volunteered to place themselves in severe harms way in order to guarantee the way of life that allows you to sit here posting such inflammatory, ignorant nonsense. Just because you don’t see yourself as being “saved” by the actions of the military, doesn’t mean it’s not occurring.
Furthermore, the notion that the voluntary job of a 23 year old Army infantryman is no more heroic than that of a 23 year old accountant in Omaha, NE is just absurd. To voluntarily clear a building where every room could contain an armed insurgent, or trigger a mutilating IED, and then do it over and over and over and over again for a year straight deserves a little more respect than you offer.
Have you ever been shot at Penelope? Have you ever sat on the left side of an armored vehicle patrolling Baghdad because you’re right hand dominant and would rather lose an appendage from the left side of your body if the door was breached by an explosive? Do you often have any of these problems at work Penelope? Do you even comprehend that servicemen understand the risks associated and that money/educational benefits are useless postmortem?
This really irritates me. You’re obviously well educated, so I’m not insulting you personally, but your opinion in this matter is completely ignorant and flawed. The disconnect from reality is profound.
John Ackerman
US Army 05-09
You said it perfectly John – so few people understand the world, although they claim to be “worldly”. Going on vacation and staying at hotels does not make you worldly and my guess is Penelope has no clue that there is a lot of hate and jealosy for this country and our way of life. Just ask all the people sneaking across our borders. If other nations were strong enough, they would just come and take her laptop and her life
WOW…is all I can say. I am dumbfounded by your post. How sad that you feel this way. I have a feeling I’ll be deleting your feed from my list :(
In honor of my grandfather, a WWII Navy veteran; my father, a vietnam-era torpedoman on a nuclear submarine; my two sons currently serving in the Air Force; and myself, an Army spouse and a veteran of two services, I will start my Veteran’s Day celebration early by unsubscribing.
It’s been an interesting ride, PT. For someone who wants to be interesting, you really just came across as one-dimensional and ignorant.
To all veterans, thank you for your sacrifice. I will be thinking of you and cherishing the gifts your service has provided.
How dare you dishonor those who truly have the beliefs you espouse – by writing a blog like this just for attention.
Disgusting.
And you are not at all an expert on work. Just an excellent and exhibitionistic writer who is bored, isolated, unhappy, and possibly strung out on meds.
You nailed Penelope to a T. She makes insane shit up for traffic. What a fraud and a disgraceful on at that!
You are so off on this one. I was in the Army, no one forced me, I joined to SERVE my country. My husband is retired from the Army after 29 years of SERVICE. We have been married 27 years. Our son was born to this life and it was the best thing for him. He grew up color blind, learning about other cultures and making friends and keeping them.
Your comments were ignorant, you did not live my life so how can you possibly know anything about it. I am not a casualty of war. My husband’s deployments may have left me alone but they made me stronger and our marriage even more so. Our son was not damaged by his father’s absence because I was there to support him. There are plenty of single parents raising children, why don’t you call them casualties?
At least the military has spouse appreciation and our children are supported. I don’t know where you are getting your data on divorce but consider this – military personnel get their divorces just like civilians so how can there be accurate data on the subject? 40%-50% of US marriages are said to end in divorce. I don’t think the rates are nearly as high in the military.
The last thing a soldier wants is to go to war – they of all people dislike war the most. People like you would much rather think those who join the military can’t do anything else with their lives than to think they actually care about serving and protecting. Do you think this about the police and firefighters?
I have enjoyed reading your articles up to now. Please stick with what you know.
Can’t wait to read your post in two weeks about how Thanksgiving should be cancelled.
It’s strange that you treat it like an American custom. You’re talking about 11/11 right? In Australia, we call it REMEMBRANCE day.
We REMEMBER the victims of war. All of the victims, not just the soldiers. There were casualties and victims on both sides (and not just in the wars but because of the wars).
We remember, respect and reflect.
Remembrance Day started with World War 1. In fact, the 11/11 at 11am Paris time is the date/time that the Armistice was formally declared.
How typically – and sadly – American for you to try to take over the day and declare it “yours” then trash it for your own mis-sentiments.
That’s an odd one. Here it’s Veteran’s Day, not Remembrance Day, and you can’t blame THAT difference on Penelope … in fact, she argued in favor of broadening the scope of the day. It looks like your beef is really with ALL Americans.
I am speechless and unsubcribing. Agree totally with what Jim wrote.
“Anyone who has a great career ahead of them, and makes enough money to support their family, and is genuinely admired for how well they have navigated their life so far, is unlikely to enlist in the armed forces.”
This military is a great career. I served 10 1/2 years on active duty in the Air Force, got out, missed it, went back in, and am now in my 8th year as a Reservist.
In my “day job” I’m a software engineer. I’m very well comped and provide a comfortable living for my family.
Last year I put that all on hold as I volunteered to deploy to the middle east (Qatar, to be specific). I’m proud to serve; I’m proud to do my part. I’d do it again in a heartbeat.
I’m in the DC area and I thought about attending your Brazen Careerist party tomorrow…I’m now doubly glad I decided against it. It’s not that you’ve offended me…you’re entitled to your opinion and I support your right to broadcast it (while gaining a traffic spike). My time is valuable – I don’t want to spend it with someone who has so little regard or respect for me, those like me, and our profession.
Plus, your train wreck of a life is fun to watch on-line, but I don’t think I’d want to see it in real life.
I’ve always enjoyed your posts and was very disappointed to read this one. My father served in the Navy and then went on to serve in the CIA for 25 years. We moved not just to different states, but to different countries. New cultures, new languages, new everything. Your comment about not being able to make friends as a result of moving constantly is totally wrong. We (my friends and siblings) agree that we learned to make friends quickly because we knew there would be a limited time together.
I agree with your comment about replacing the word “Veterans Day” with “National Service Day” because people like my father (and there are thousands) don’t get to have the recognition that our veterans receive. However, your comments and generalizations about why people join the military and fight in wars simply insult generation after generation of men and women who patriotically served our country in the best way they knew how. Your cavalier dismissal of the men who were drafted into service is particularly upsetting.
You’ve taken an extremely complex issue and tried to simplify it in a few bullet points just to write a controversial column that would get attention. So congratulations, you have achieved that goal. But at what price? I’m so disappointed – I thought better of you Penelope.
WOW – someone else finally said what I have been feeling for years. My jaw is still on the floor.
I’m sick and tired of hearing about how our troops are, by default, more patriotic and a better person than I am….simply because they joined the military. When in fact, a majority of them joined for just the reasons mentioned – because they had no other real career choices out of High School and/or they needed a way to pay for College. NOT because they are some Patriot.
There’s a reason why the not-so-bright, no job options after High School enlist and are welcomed into the military: The Military needs FRONT LINE soldiers, aka warm bodies.
This is a sad comment and shows the inability to separate over-hyped media from the actual sacrifice of the troops. I respect the troops immensely – for their sacrifice and service – without thinking of them as “superior” and I am certainly not insecure enough to imagine that they are being compared to me and feeling lesser as a result.
By the way, how are using your patriotism these days? Did you vote (job 1), have you helped in your community? volunteered?
P – are you happy to be associated with this post? I would call it out as a disgraceful generalization of why people join the service.
I’ve subscribed to your blog for a couple years now and have thoroughly enjoyed your writing until I read this crap today. I understand you’re trying to stir up traffic but, this bone is not the one to pick. You’ve belittled the service of those who’ve sacrificed their lives to serve our country so that we can live as we choose. How ironic that they are off on foreign soil defending your right to post crap like this. I am unsubcribing.
Having Veterans Day doesn’t take anything away from other people. There’s 364 other days available to recognize them. But veterans deserve some appreciation and respect, whether volunteer or conscript and, whether they fought in popular wars or controversial ones.
-1 reader
idiot
Penelope, I’m with you on this one. Your post says something that needs to be said.
Next year, I promise, you’ll see a good dozen newspapers writing articles on this subject because you’ve now broken the taboo. Two years from now, it’ll be something people can freely talk about. You’ve done a great service to your country.
Besides, it’s time for this kind of discussion. People all over the world are asking the same questions about their nation’s sacred cows.
I say that the pious forms of patriotism that were “good enough” for our grandparents are NOT good enough for us. We want better.
I’ve read some fallacious arguments @ this blog, but this one takes the cake. And the poor souls that go “OMG, how so courageous of you to said that”. Un-effin’-believable.
Really, the post can be flesh out to point its fallacies, but let’s just sumarize it by assigning fallacy of proof by verbosity, aka If-you-can't-dazzle-them-with-your- brilliance-then-baffle-them-with-your-bullshit.
Critical thinking is on low supply in the great USA.
PS – An expert on work issues stating the things in your second coment, is like an astronomer claimed that the earth is flat-it makes the expert lose credibility.
PPS – If you are getting compensated on the # of comments, congrats! you’ve achieved 100+ with this post. :)
Excellent strategy for PR. Poor topic choice. Next time you need an interview, call Oprah, or the kooks at CNN.
Nancy,
So a guy who just spent 12 months in Kunar Province, Afghanistan getting shot at with bullets/rockets/bombs, missed the birth of his son, and had his friends get killed before his eyes, doesn’t deserve a “thank you” and simple moment of recognition? What if he lost his eyes? What about his ability to move his arms/legs? What about both? Would you thank him then? You do realize how we ended up in Afghanistan, right? We were attacked by the same group of individuals that we’re currently fighting.
What a joke. I’m sorry. Some of you people need a reality check on how the world really works. A “thank you” goes a helluva long way to remind a Soldier who just got back from active combat days before that the fight was worth it.
Too many things wrong with this to try to point them all out. The main ones that jump out are: a serious lack of understanding of history, a failure to adequately separate the various issues you touch on, and a very obvious attempt to grab traffic.
Like Gavin, I’m an Aussie. And I also think that you have failed to recognise the international and broad-ranging meaning of the 11.11 date and time.
I’ll overlook a lot of things, but this post is uninformed and ignorant.
I’m back – I just read the link on a minute’s silence in Israel.
Do you not do this in America? Here is the link for those who are not aware of this custom, which is followed in most Commonwealth countries and other places around the world.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remembrance_Day
For those who don’t want to follow the link – it explains how at 11am everything stops. The radios and televisions play the Last Post followed by one or two minutes silence. Workplaces stop, the phones don’t ring. People in the street stop and bow their heads. This is so people can remember the sacrifices EVERYONE made. And it happens across a big part of the world.
I know I said it already, but the lack of research in this post really annoyed me.
So Penelope (and everyone else who defended her), would you thank Staff Sgt. Michael Lage for his sacrifice? What do ya think? Should we tell him that his recognition was already awarded to him monetarily in the form of Hostile Fire Pay and Hazardous Duty Pay? That’s what you’re saying isn’t it?
http://www.armytimes.com/xml/news/2007/12/ap_wounded_mothers_071228/071228_wounded_mothers3_800.JPG
What about the 100,000 other guys that suited up today for patrol in Iraq/Afghanistan that weren’t the lone survivors in a 5 man armored humvee? Just because they didn’t draw the “unlucky hand”, doesn’t mean they aren’t all laying it on the line in equally hazardous circumstances.
Howbout Gunnery Sgt. Nick Popaditch? The man literally had his eye blown out of his face by an RPG. The “Globe Eagle and Anchor” in his right eye isn’t a contact, it’s his prosthetic eye. Nope, by your standards he deserves no recognition either.
http://dc-cdn.virtacore.com/2010/08/198758.jpeg
May God (or whatever supreme being any reader may recognize) bless the Veterans past, present and future. Without them, this exercise of free speech would probably have us stoned.
we’re still stoning, haven’t you noticed?
I think you touched a sacred cow here. Americans are very still much in love with the military instutition primarily it is one of the instutitions left that still runs by a code of honor and of course people are going to be so emotionally offended. After considering your points, well you can consider Veterans day is basically as meaningful as building a statue in honor of something. Veterans of wars are honored through other ways such as medals/awards and not through a day in which most people don’t even realize is happening until they go to check the mail.
Karen, I like your point about the “sacred cow” and our country’s love affair with the military linked to the code of honor, respect, rules, authority etc. It reminds me of quote I read in a book by the Chilean born author, Isabelle Allende:
“The military were a breed apart, brothers who spoke a different dialect from the civilians and with whom any attempt at dialogue would be a conversation of the deaf, because the slightest dissent was considered treason…”
from The House of Spirits, by Isabel Allende
Kelly, it’s not only USA, the military IS a class apart in general. The same with clergy.
The Warriors, the Shamans, are roles you’ll find across time and geography.
Re Isabel Allende’s quote; there was a socio-political context that you should consider. I kindly encourage you to read her biography and she were is she coming from.
Penelope – I won’t waste much time here but you can be damn sure I will not be enlisting in your army or projects as long as you are a part of them. You are a disgrace, your work is full of shit and your comments are better off shoved somewhere…
I’ve come to the conclusion that your entire existence is nothing more the need for attention. Clearly you have no respect for yourself or anyone else in your circle.
I think Martin Luther King Jr. day is unofficially designated as a day of service where people go out and find a way to serve their communities. I know some places that do honor MLK day observe it with community service. Martin Luther King was a great leader who endured lots of humiliation, violent and ultimately sacrificed his life for the greater good. Perhaps that holiday is more fitting for a National Day of Service than Veterans day.
One thing that I think is “wrong” (for lack of a better word) is that nowadays there are so many individual instances of honoring the military and perpetual flag-waving all throughout the year that days like Veterans Day start to fade into the grey and become diluted. I think it is appropriate to honor those that have served in the military, so it’s unfortuntate that we risk becoming desensitized to showing respect and that the accolades we continually give risk becoming less and less genuine because it is so commonplace now. I agree with Penelope on the family point – perhaps there should be military family day or military appreciation day or something like that. The National Day of Service is a good idea, but I don’t see where it needs to displace a day honoring the military.
On another note, though, while I do think it’s short-sighted to stereotype military folks like Penelope did in the latter part of her post – and certainly believe and understand that it is offensive – some of the self-aggrandizing that comes from the military gets tiresome. Yes, those of us who aren’t in the military don’t have to move around constantly, go to a foreign land, go to war, get up before sunrise for basic training, etc, but it is also because we didn’t choose that life and military folks did. That doesn’t mean it needs to be thrown in our faces like we are lesser American citizens because of it. If I was a trash collector and spent all day climbing and crawling around dumpsters all day, I don’t think that reserves me the right to serve constant reminders to my friends who may work retail that “I get up at 5am every day” or “I am up to my waist in trash and stink to high heaven every night I get home.” There is obviously a huge majority in this nation who rightfully respects and honors the military. There is also a minority who misdirect their disagreement on international policy when it comes to war at military individuals, but patting yourself on the back and trying to make others feel guilty that they didn’t serve doesn’t remedy any sort of negative viewpoint certain people have toward the military.
Another point of frequent contention is the meaning of the phrase “fighting for our freedoms.” I think it’s reasonably fair to say that those who fought in Iraq and Afghanistan weren’t fighting for our freedoms – they were fighting for those countries’ peoples freedoms. Maybe tangetially they were fighting for our freedoms if you want to go out on a limb and view the threat of terrorism and dictatorship in those countries exhibits a real threat of a takeover of our nation, compromising our freedoms. However, whether a soldier is in a bunker in Afghanistan, stationed on an aircraft carrier in the Mediterranean, or stationed here at home on a domestic base, the purpose of the military is to protect and preserve our freedoms in the face of any threat our nation may encounter during their service – whether there is one or not. And for this, I find their work admirable and I thanks them.
Jon –
I do agree with your statement regarding dilution. My pet peev is the use of hero to describe everyone who serves (maybe it is a generational thing, like everyone gets a trphy) but I would never dare call myself a hero and I especially get irked when the media uses the term. I have know very very few heroes in the miltary. Everyone serves, but to call them heroes really takes away from the people who really are. I think most people can (hopefully) recognize true bravery. At the rate we are going, we are going to have to refer to true heroes as “superheroes” which is a bit comic
I don’t even know when it is. But congratulations. This is the first post I’ve ever linked to from my own little blog.
I think Martin Luther King Jr. day is unofficially designated as a day of service where people go out and find a way to serve their communities. I know some places that do honor MLK day observe it with community service. Martin Luther King was a great leader who endured lots of humiliation, violent and ultimately sacrificed his life for the greater good. Perhaps that holiday is more fitting for a National Day of Service than Veterans day.
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Andy, MLK had his “issues” as well.
Being respectful is one thing; blind idolatry another.
MLK was flawed sure, as many of the great figures were like Ghandi and MOther Theresa. They all struggled with their own issues but they recognized a greater purpose that was way beyond them. You can also say there is a “blind idolotry” of the military as well. Lots of unhonorable conduct happens in the military and individuals are basically sacrificed to maintain the image of the military and there certainly is no shortage of people willing to defend the military no matter what new scandal pops up or questions the military-industrial complex American has.
Your post was sad. You own later comment tells me you really do not understand. Hopefully with time and wisdom you will realize why your post was hurtful and inappropriate. This Veterans Day I will remember your post and celebrate that you have the freedom to say and think anything not by complete accident but through the efforts of those you obviously do not respect, honor, or like. You are wrong that people in military service did so because they had no other option just as people don’t serve in the Peace Corps because they had no other option. I appreciate your honesty but find your opinion to cause me despair. You really need to expand your circle of contacts and friends.
I agree, Don. What a depressing post. It definitely makes you wonder about the upcoming generation.
Another perspective on Veterans’ Day: http://www.rightnetwork.com/posts/1001642344
What exactly does this have to do with career advice? I really hope this blog isn’t turning into what all the other blogs turn into; a blackhole of political blabber.
Thanks for ruining my morning.
I have a question.
Does parenthood exempt one from a draft?
I didn’t know that.
I don’t believe it can, directly. But the 3-A classification means “Registrant deferred because of hardship to dependents” and actually having dependents probably improves your odds for that.
OK, according to Wikipedia:
“President Kennedy set up Executive Order 11119 (signed on September 10, 1963), granting an exemption from conscription for married men between the ages of 19 and 26. President Johnson later rescinded the exemption for married men without children by Executive Order 11241 (signed on August 26, 1965 and going into effect on midnight of that date). However, married men with children or other dependents and men married before the Executive Order went into effect were still exempt. President Reagan revoked both of them with Executive Order 12553 (signed on February 25, 1986).”
I’m confused. What’s the short answer?
@Maureen, the short answer is “it depends.”
You have lost another reader. This latest post of your’s has nothing to do with career advice. And it is an insensitive generalization not to mention disrespectful.
My Dad was a career Air Force man. He was and is one of the most patriotic men I know. He hated everything about Viet Nam. He went, he did his job, but he celebrated nothing about it. And he does not celebrate Veteran’s Day.
My best friend’s son joined the Marines; partly for the education, party to travel, mostly to serve his country. He understood that being killed was a real possibiliity and he went anyway. So far he has been blessed, but his dad worries constantly.
I know a handfull of young men who joined the military specifically to “kiss some ass”. I worry about them.
I say the best way to end wars is to give each General a battle Axe and mace and send THEM out on the field of battle to slug it out.
Umm… that should be “Kick some ass” spell checker tripped me up.
Well, I guess I have to skip breakfast now I’m so nauseous.
Too many fallacies, not enough time. Dissing Veteran’s Day and the service of Vets to generate more traffic for one’s blogsite has got to be a new low.
Real quick about Point #4: P, ever heard of Pat Tillman?
Real quick in general: History of mankind – Always a war somewhere. Always will be. It’s in our DNA. We NEED a military to protect ourselves.
I personally would prefer to have the privilege to watch “Band of Brothers” in the comfort of my lumpy Barcalounger than to have to participate in anything those amazing soldiers did — or any U.S. soldiers have done — so I can safely sit on my butt.
THANK YOU, VETS. I appreciate your sacrifice immensely. Not a fan of war, but I love you guys (as in men and women)!
XOXO,
Toni
Oh sure Pat Tillman was very honorable in choosing to go to war then he got killed. Then the brass in charge tried to trump it as the ultimate hero story, lying to Tillmans family covering up the real circumstances of his death until they were forced to cop up to the truth. One way to honor soldiers lives is if the government actually had some honor themselves. I pay respect to soldiers, being a soldier is an honorable position but the military is one awful employer these days.
The perfect soldier is the one sitting at home bored because there are no more wars left to fight.
Meanwhile, did you even bother to read Penelope’s message before you attacked it?
echoing your statement with this:
“Soldiers are not made to shine in times of peace… War is the soldier’s work of art, the culmination of all their training, the gold medal of their profession… a chance to put into practice what they learned– blind obedience, the use of arms, and other skills that soldiers can master once they silence the scruples of their hearts.”
from The House of Spirits, by Isabel Allende
Kelly – the same could be said of firefighters and police. Let’s hope you never need one….
Mr. LaRocca:
As a matter of fact I read it twice and found it even more disgusting/pathetic the second time around. So I wrote my own blog about it: http://tinyurl.com/29xmj7z. I play amateur shrink and analyze what was Penelope’s REAL motivation behind writing this post. And it ain’t about Veterans.
Penelope,
Please keep writing these kinds of posts! I love when people say things that are supposedly not to be said. You are absolutely right that war reverberates throughout society and soldiers do not give their lives for their country. This is very hard for people to accept because it’s something that’s drilled into us from the day we get into school.
I disagree that we need a National Day of Service. Just bake some bread and bring it over to your neighbor’s place. That’ll do everyone far better than some national “do x” day.
Just curious if you – or any of the others who have insisted men and women don’t join the military to serve their country – have ever served a day in the military?
I am most frustrated with the comments from those of you who know “a” soldier, sailor or airman speaking as if you have any authority on why people enlist in the military when what you have is an ignorant and uneducated opinion.
Dana-I don’t doubt that some people join the military out of a sense of duty to country. I signed up for Marine Corps OCS in college and was ready to go until I tore a meniscus in my knee. So no I never served myself, but I definitely had a sense of duty to country. I do think that this reason, while noble, is not fulfilled in the battlefield. The government appeals to recruits’ highest ideals to get them to go to war. The fact that young men go to some hell hole because the government asks them to is not something to exalt or put on a pedestal. Penelope’s point that war ripples throughout society is poignant. When a father dies in Iraq and their kid grows up without a dad, is society really better off?
MJ –
Damn Straight – Part of Freedom is Freedom to choose your life. I can’t see why people question someone’s desire to serve their country. My parents were dirt poor immigrants from Ireland and I am not ashamed to say that I love this country and the opportunities it has afforded me (though my heart aches at what is going on with the political environment in this country today). People make all sorts of choices in this country, and nobody blinks an eye, but if you choose to serve in the military, something must be off kilter. I joined during the Cold War, but the threat today is just as active and real.
This war is not reverberating throughout this society MJ – our society really seems to have tuned out
ed- Whether or not you feel this society is involved with the current war, it still ripples through society. When a child grows up without a dad, or with a father who’s stricken with PTSD, or even a dad who’s simply away for portions of their young life, that changes who that child becomes. That changes who their children become and so on. This absolutely affects childrens’ outlooks on life and their future contributions to society. War effects society no matter who is paying attention.
To everyone that wants to limit the US military, I’ll agree with you fully as soon as you travel to Iran and North Korea and plead your case there. In fact, I’ll be the first to promote the concept once you return.
Penelope,
Being a 31 year Marine veteran, I appreciate and encourage diverse thought and introspection – and asking why even of those things we hold dear.
I do think you are off track here and maybe fighting the wrong target/enemy – actual Veterans Day celebration.
I don't think the problem is really “Veterans Day” in itself – it's just a holiday – which we can celebrate or not celebrate. Isn't the real culprit here and the cause of the many problems you listed in your blog really the result of "war"? Now wouldn't eradicating and solving the source of "wars" be a better object of your vast energies and immense skills than asking to cancel Veterans Day?
I think you’ve hit the mark Stephen (around the focus not being the holiday, but war), and I respect your inside perspective as a Marine veteran. But I also think Penelope hit the mark by using Veterans Day and the high emotions to generate a conversation that gets at the root at why this day is so sacred to some and so uncomfortable for others. I’d love your feedback on my rant around war that I wrote in response to my son’s asking about soldiers: http://emptynestdiary.wordpress.com/2009/11/11/veterans-day-teaching-boys-about-war/