Don’t try to dodge the recession with grad school
A recession is typically a good time for graduate schools. Their application pool goes up because people see them as safe shelter from the storm. The scariest part of a down economy is the idea of having no income. Of course, graduate school does not solve for that. But graduate school does solve the second most scary thing about a bad economy: lack of a learning curve.
The more desperate you are for a job, the more likely you are to take a job that doesn’t teach you what you want to learn. And then you get to that job and you think, “Grad school could solve this problem.” But in fact, grad school creates larger, and more insurmountable problems. And some the problems you’re trying to solve with grad school might not be problems at all.
1. Grad school pointlessly delays adulthood.
The best thing you can do for yourself is take time to figure out who you are and where you fit in the world. No one teaches you that in school. You need to do it yourself. Grad school is a way to delay this process, rather than move you forward, according to Thomas Benton of the Chronicle of Higher Education. So instead of dodging tough questions by going back to school, try being lost. It’s normal, and honest, and you will end up with more self-knowledge and less debt than your grad-school counterparts, and in many cases, you will be similarly qualified for your next big job.
2. PhD programs are pyramid schemes
It’s very hard to get a job teaching at a university. And if you are not going to teach, why are you getting a degree? You don’t need a piece of paper to show that you are learning. Go read books after work. Because look: In the arts, you would have a better chance of surviving the Titanic than getting a tenure-track position; and once you adjust for IQ, education, and working hours, post-PhD science jobs are among the most low-paying jobs you could get.
3. Business school is not going to help 90% of the people who go.
Here’s the problem with business school. Most people want to work for themselves, but you can’t learn entrepreneurship in school — you have to learn by doing. And a business degree that is not from a top school is not going to get you very much at all, according to recruiting firm Challenger & Gray. Finally, Harvard Business School has acknowleged that if you are planning to downshift for kids around the time you are 30, your ability to leverage an MBA is drastically compromised.
4. Law school is a factory for depressives.
It used to be that if you had a law degree it was a ticket to a high salary and a safe career. Today many people go to law school and cannot find a job. This is, in a large part, because law school selects for people who are good with details and pass tests and law firms select for people who are good at marketing themselves and can drum up business. Law firms are in a transition phase, and they have many unfair labor practices leftover from older generations, for example, hourly billing and making young lawyers pay dues for what is, today, a largely uncertain future. Which might explain why the American Bar Association reports that the majority of lawyers would recommend that people not to go into law.
5. The medical school model assumes that health care spending is not a mess.
Medical school is extremely expensive, and our health care system does not pay enough to doctors for them to sanely accept the risk of taking $200,000 in debt to serve as doctors. Specialists like opthalmologists have great hours, and plastic surgeons have great salaries, but most doctors will be stuck in a system that is largely broken, and could easily break them financially — like OBGYNs who cannot afford to deliver babies in New York because they can’t afford the malpractice insurance with their salary.
6. Going to grad school is like going into the military.
Applications to the military increase in a bad economy in a disturbingly similar way that applications to graduate school do. For the most part, both alternatives are bad. They limit your future in ways you can’t even imagine, and they are not likely to open the kind of doors you really want. Military is the terrible escape hatch for poor kids, and grad school is the terrible escape hatch for rich kids.
7. Most jobs are better than they seem: You can learn from any job.
When I worked on a French chicken farm, I thought I’d learn French, but I didn’t, because I was so foreign to the French farm family that they couldn’t talk to me. However I did learn a lot of other things, like how to bargain to get the best job in the chicken coop, and how to get out of killing the bunnies. You don’t need to be learning the perfect thing in your job. You just need to be learning. Don’t tell yourself you need a job that gives your life meaning. Jobs don’t do that; doesn’t that make you feel better? Suddenly being in the workplace doesn’t seem so bad.
8. Graduate school forces you to overinvest: It’s too high risk.
In a world where people did not change careers, grad school made sense. Today, grad school is antiquated. You invest three to six extra years in school in order to get your dream career. But the problem is that not only are the old dream careers deteriorating, but even if you have a dream career, it won’t last. You’ll want to change because you can. Because that’s normal for today’s workplace. People who are in their twenties today will change careers about four times in their life. Which means that grad school is a steep investment for such a short period of time. The grad school model needs to change to adapt to the new workplace. Until then. Stay away.
I have very little experience seeing as I am only a freshman in college, but from family and some older friends I have they found grad school to be a good option for them. Albeit, most of them worked grad school with either a payed internship or job on the side (mostly engineers) and/or a heavy investment in research. I feel like going to grad school in engineering or science (especially science) might be more applicable and rewarding than in English, History or business. However, this is also because a lot of science and engineering majors who want to go to grad school, from my limited experience, want to at least take a stab at research as either a career path or a way to feel accomplished.
I am an electrical engineering student at BU. I will admit I don’t know what I am talking about, but I have some older friends and family members who swear by grad school.
this is a laughable list. i don’t think anyone is claiming you will get rich from getting a MFA but to say Med School is a waste of time and you can’t make money being a doctor makes you look ignorant.
I say this blog has some good points, but it really depends on the person’s situation. My goal is to eventually become an administrator in athletics. If I get a master’s degree, the entry-level job isn’t going to pay more than one with a bachelor’s degree. However, if you continue to progress in the field, then it certainly has an opportunity.
The second part of this is, I would not go to grad school unless I had my masters fully financed. I was offered a grad. assistantship at a higher profile university, but would have paid around 10K. I was offered at another institution where I was given free housing, tuition, books and a stipend. I decided to take the other university, because I will still get to work in my athletic field and get my masters — with far less debt.
I have a lot of problems with this post. I’ll be starting grad school (next month, actually) and while I don’t really want to do the school, I see the necessity. My dream career is absolutely not deteriorating! As baby boomers age, stroke rates increase, and Speech-Language Pathology is more relevant than ever! And as they merely teach you the science of normal speaking and thinking processes in undergrad, I absolutely need to learn more about disordered processes from a scientific point of view. I don’t think this could be done merely by ‘learning on the job’ (although a lot of it is, as half of grad school is supervised intern/externships).
Then again, while I will be delaying adulthood with grad school it’s not to dodge the recession as there has been no shortage of job openings for SLPs throughout the recession. For SLPs, there’s not really a recession to dodge. I just think a lot of these reasons to not attend graduate school are only applicable to a few areas of study, and not nearly as generalized as you may think they are.
(lol) This article could be speaking only to me and people like me. I’m a graphic designer, or I was one, and when advertising went down, my career ship sank with it. I’ve struggled trying to find a job against people who know the newer technology, who have better portfolios, and who have recently graduated. I’ve applied for anything I might remotely be qualified for, only to be denied for the past year and six months. And my family now believes that I’m a permanently lazy bum, and remind me of my status when I speak with them.
So I ran to shelter in the bosom of academia. My loans are getting higher, because I have no source of income. Even small, part-time jobs have an endless pool of candidates! It’s been harder to get a interview at Starbucks than it’s been to get one for graphic design! Although going to grad school for my dream job is probably a huge waste of time and money, and yet another poor decision in a long string of them, my other options were to: 1. move back into my parent’s basement and live on their good graces in a dying home-town economy. 2. Become homeless and live in my car. 3. Work at Wal-Mart (which I’ve done before) and enter the cycle of never being able to afford what you need, much less what you want, until you look back on your life and realize you’ve spent so much time and energy working at a job you hate, you never managed to do anything else so you’ve become bitter and resentful. (I’m sorry, Phyllis, you were a great CSM, but it’s true.)
Is it so wrong to follow your dreams when everything else has crashed and burned? The debt is horrible, and I don’t want to dig myself in any deeper, but this is currently the only stage in my life when I could even consider grad school. Sure, it’s for a degree that’s completely meaningless, but I’m taking the courses for the knowledge that I’ll need of the industry I want to be in, not for the piece of paper I’ll get in a year and a half. I’m floundering through the wreckage of what used to be a stable life, and even if the scholastic driftwood I’ve clasped onto is leaving me with festering splinters in my arms, it’s better than giving up. It’s better than saying, “There’s no use. All dreams should die. I should go back to the places and jobs that sucked my soul out and made me miserable because money’s the only thing that matters.”
This is my quarter-life crisis. (As stupid as that sounds.) The decisions I’ve made here may not be the best ones. They may be decisions that I can be derided for in the future. But so far, besides my stress-fully extended work vacation, the happiest I’ve been in the past year and a half has been being in school, learning new things, and expanding my knowledge. So while this post is correct in it’s advice and what it assumes, the advice may not be RIGHT for all people who are in this situation.
I’m currently working on my MLS. My library pays half my tuition to the local state school. After completing 1 year of a 2 year program my salary jumps 20%. The degree is absolutely necessary to get professional positions. Librarians make significantly more than library techs and assistants. No amount of experience will get me a librarian job without the degree.
The problem with graduate school and joining the military is with the students/recruits. As with any major time/money investment it is necessary to be realistic about what one can get out of it. Both could be fulfilling and financially beneficial if you know what you are getting into. There’s a disturbing lack of responsibility and forethought, the graduate programs and military certainly aren’t going to tell you the downside.
…not all comments are the same or equal.
…isn’t the problem that there are more phd’s graduated every year than there are avilable positions?
wow. and it is an old thread, but still timely for those trying to make this difficult decision (my comments above didn’t nest with the comments i was responding to, but whatever, maybe i screwed up.) I'm tempted to disagree with the author, but actually there's a lot of truth here and since this is merely an article inviting you to dig more deeply into these things yourself if you are right now considering grad school, I think I have to defend the author here and the reality of the trends she's referring to. I don't see that she is making light of the decision/situation. She did go to grad school, and seems to be fairly accomplished, for those simply dismissing this information, and no I don’t know her.
There’s a big difference btwn officer and enlisted, I was enlisted in the military and saw firsthand all the lost souls malingering there, so i think there are lots of us who were "in" that would recognize what her comments were referring to.
Looks like there’s success and failure in both camps and that makes it hard to know. many who succeeded with education may have because of reasons that have more to do with the real practices that lead to success that this blog is all about. Or just luck. I take the author's point to be about being aware of odds and make sure you aren't kidding yourself about your likelihood to buck them.
obviously there are the realities to such things as credentialism or industry requirements in any given field, but i think the thrust here is that people, especially young people, often make such important decisions in ignorance, and don't even know what all they should be considering, what others are experiencing, and often believe the first thing they encounter superficially not realizing the realities until it is too late.
I read this as an attempt to help fasttrack that investigation with some of the issues you would come across on your own. It is important because it is an important big decision. How many phd students knew there are far more graduating each year than there are spots for them to fill? how many lawyers and doctors find out the facts about those fields before it is too late? Granted doctors are faring better than lawyers, for now, but there are doctors painting a less rosy picture, and if you want insight on med school take a look over at medschoolhell.com for some exaggerated, but not untrue insight about getting in and what to expect after.
And Trunk is an aggregator of research, so if she's stating it, know that there is some research out there to that effect that you should at least be aware of. There is the reality that there aren't enough spots in med school or at Harvard for everyone, as there are other realites that those considering grad school should be aware of. a lot of change unfolding in the last half century, many more attending education, economic statistics on flattening income levels and opportunities that affect even law and medicine, outsourucing & insourcing, globalization, changing social dynamics, etc., etc., – i think she’s just pointing out some of things people need to consider – don't use the old rules or logic to make your decisions, look around at those doing what you think you want to do and see if you still want to do it, make sure employment statistics are on your side in that field and know what economic trends are affecting it. make sure whether people/society will generally be working with you or against you depending on things like age, where you went to school, can you pass a background check, etc.
hi Penelope.
I read this too late, …………..in fact 11 or more years late ..I wish every teenager and their parents read it or have this insight.
What you say is true universally and I am perfect example.
I even resigned a job I loved to study. I am still paying the price. I feel pity on myself with two masters degree (one in law and one in International business) and still unemployed.
Now I am in US and was looking out for suitable courses to get me a job here and your blog struck me on the head.
I didn’t find my place in this world …but I will,……. soon.
:)
I absolutely agree with your conclusions regarding graduate school. You have some good facts to back them up. However, you analogize grad school with military service in a way that can’t bear up under scrutiny, and shows your lack of knowledge with regard to military service. Just from an economic perspective, military members are better off than grad school students. Isn’t the lack of financial return one of the main pillars of your argument against grad school?
so your telling me if i walk into a (blank) firm with no piece of paper saying “I’ll get the job done”(degree), that I even have a CHANCE of getting the job. Look, most people are normal, they dont need to “find” themselves on their own without school. But lets say you have a point everyone needs to grow up on their own right? Mature young adults are going to GROW UP quicker than immature young adults regardless whether they pursue any higher education. and how is someone supposed to know whether they are part of that 10% or not unless they try. I like your angle and i understand what your saying, I might even agree, but I’m trying to challenge your point of view. Lets face it, the majority of individuals need a degree to make it.
Getting a bachelors these days is almost like gettin your associates, everyones doing it. what better time would it be than during this economic downturn to go for that MBA? education is something noone can take from you. An MBA is powerful. Id rather higher someone with an MBA ready to be trained on how to get the job done realistically, then allow them to apply their additional knowledge. We all know they dont start teaching you the good stuff until AFTER your bachelors (especially in business).
id rather higher someone with an Mba then a bachelors*
YOU NEED TO TAKE COLLEGE SERIOUSLY IF YOU WANT TO BENEFIT FROM IT. ITS A CHOICE THAT THE INDIVIDUAL MAKES.
THE ONLY PROBLEM IS THESE SCHOOLS ARE ROBBING US BLIND
Love this comment!
While agree there can be the “wrong” reasons for going to grad school, it’s misleading to conclude that grad school is “antiquated” or not cost effective. I’m currently entering an MPA program, and am between jobs. It was a very big decision (money, time, mortgage), but in the end , I believe it’s the right decision because the job market is in such bad shape. Look at the statistics. You are a great candidate if you combine work experience with a graduate degree. It’s simple math…If what they say is true and there are six applicant’s to every job, then wouldn’t you feel better to be in the 5% that has graduate degree?
this is depressing…. and negative. way to pull people down with you.
MBA is basically as good as toilet paper at most job firms. For it to land you a job it has to come from a top 20 school or else its considered pretty much useless. Its pretty much the same with law school if it isn’t from a top 20 then its considered trash. They are exceptions to the rules and a few people who didn’t go to a top 20 school with these degrees still end up with a good employment or start their own business but thats very few. You are an idiot if you are willing to gamble a 100k on a law degree or MBA not from a top 20 school.
Such a short post, but yet so much misinformation. Any degree at any level (from Associate’s all they way up to a Ph.D.) have the potential to be ‘worthless’. And yes, I know of some law school grads who still live at home with the ‘rents! Anyway, a good number of MBA programs cost no where near $100K. There are many industries (especially in the public sector) that require a Master’s degree in order to move up the career ladder professionally. Mind you, in many instances, they do not care what the degree is in. In such cases, MBA are hardly worthless. It is not the degree; but the person who earned the degree that makes a difference.
Just felt like commenting again, since this article had me thinking for the last couple of days (in my earlier post, I said I was just starting grad school after 7 years of “real world experience”. I agree fully with those that say “it’s what you make of it”. I have several friends that studied English, History and Art only to later say “I can’t find a job”. I think a little research is good before a degree. But here’s the kicker: ITS WHAT YOU MAKE OF IT. I’m not bashing BA degrees or MFA’s because it’s what you do with it after school. If you networked, studied your butt off and understand the career path ahead, you probably wont have a hard time finding a decent job. But, you have to be willing to make sacrifices. You can’t continue living in a small town with a Masters in Marine Geology and complain that your degree is worthless. It means your degree isn’t worth much THERE. But, if you’re creative and adventurous (willing to move), you’ll find your perfect job. There are plenty of cases where someone with an IT degree has no people skills and blames their degree on their apparent failure. A degree is only one tool in the box (a big one though.)
I am not sure I would ever make life decisions by reading an HR person’s blogs. Usually when you apply to a grad school, you need to provide a statement of purpose to be admitted and it needs to be sufficient. Naturally if someone is HR they shouldn’t go to graduate school because there is no upward mobility within a company as an HR person that would justify it. On the other hand, many careers require a graduate degree. If a person’s purpose for attending graduate school is to avoid a bad economy, their purpose is not sufficient
Wow…
I am baffled that in this entire discussion the possibility of wanting to study something for the sake of being an expert in the field is being completely ignored.
Thankfully, there are people who can inspire in others the desire to reach their full potential in the face of adversity (such as in times of a recession). These people are changemakers in that they motivate the next generation to become changemakers themselves.
Congratulations for bringing out the worst in people and thanks for quashing whatever desire to solve complex problems like cancer, poverty, and world hunger someone in your readership might have had. You, dear P, are whatever the antithesis of a changemaker is.
Well said. There are a lot of people that choose to be more than just average. To dedicate their life to their career to make a difference in other peoples life – regardless of the lack of pay or prestige. I read this inspiring book called, “What Matters” it contains multiple Global Issues and is discussed with award winning writers and photo-journalists. These people REALLY make a difference in the lives of others. Now that is true passion!
Quite an excellent point! The concept of genuine vocation and graduate school possibly being the only path to that calling has been very much ignored.
Don’t tell me my job can’t give my life meaning. How do you think photo-journalists who report on issues that require major social change. The type of people whose life CAN AND DO make a difference in the world. You must know what gives your life meaning to find the career that is your passion. When you work that career, you are living a meaningful passionate life!
Your article is full of gross misrepresentations of the facts and overarching stereotypes of what it means to be a graduate student. I hope no one takes your advice.
Penelope:
Your full of crap and so is this article you wrote. This is coming from a JD/MBA by the way.
You’re an MBA and JD and yet you don’t know the difference between “your” and “you’re?” You need to go back to your school and get a refund! Idiot!
I am one of the 50% plus of law grads who would not recommend going to law school, and I agree that law school is a factory for depressives. However, it is the farthest thing from the truth that law firms select people who are “good at marketing themselves and can drum up business”. On the contrary, law firms, like law schools, select people who are “good with details and pass tests”.
The problem isn’t that you can’t get a job if you’re good with details and pass tests (in fact that’s the only way you’ll get a job); it’s that that’s all your rewarded for, and it’s not much fun to spend your whole life being good at details and passing tests.
By suggesting that law firms hire people who are good at marketing themselves and drumming up business, you are doing a grievous disservice to entry level law students who want jobs and should be studying 24 hours a day, and not developing marketing prowess, if they want a job. Firms will look at two numbers: your GPA (the higher the better) and your pulse (it must exist). I can’t imagine what lawyers you have been talking to but they probably don’t have jobs, and it’s because of their GPA and not their marketing.
The problem with graduate school and joining the military is with the students/recruits. As with any major time/money investment it is necessary to be realistic about what one can get out of it. Both could be fulfilling and financially beneficial if you know what you are getting into. There’s a disturbing lack of responsibility and forethought, the graduate programs and military certainly aren’t going to tell you the downside.
I appreciate your take on graduate school, I think the workplace is the new grad school:) This post was extremely helpful to me!
Penelope – I agree with most of your points. Specifically, I agree with the point that you don’t need a graduate or MBA to learn how to succeed in business. In fact, I’ve read many reviews that suggest MBA programs thought around the country are using outdated business models and strategies and therefore are a waste of time and money. Here is what I did – I’ve always knew that there was something wrong with working for someone else and working a cubicle the rest of my life. I started and internet business and I cannot tell you how proud I am of myself for doing the research and learning what it takes to be an internet entrepreneur. I am learning so much about business by personal study and recommended reading from my mastermind group and am helping other achieve their dreams as well. It’s a win win that required no graduate degree or MBA. People need to get with the times!
I once read this advice and took it to heart. I think that Penelope, and many others, have a confused idea of what “grad school” is. Penelope went to a liberal arts grad school and dropped out. Penelope also developed skills that helped her to succeed in the working world early on.
I failed to develop the kind of skills that get many people jobs directly after their Bachelor’s degrees. I failed to take full advantage of the resources I had access to during undergrad. I’ve never been able to leverage my good looks or charming personality to get jobs I was not qualified for.
Penelope makes the excellent point that one should not try too hard to delay feeling lost, since it will happen regardless. I agree that going to grad school immediately after undergrad as a way of putting off “facing the real world” will only come back to bite you. But as one user put it succinctly, 5 years experience in retail is NOT, as a rule, superior to a Master’s degree. Most of us go to cheap, mediocre universities and don’t make the best use of our time while we’re there. We follow the advice, “Just go out and work.” That’s good advice at graduation, but it only gets us so far.
Ben’s point provides a good perspective to hear. Sometimes you have to just sit down and do the math. What will be your earning potential after five years in your current position? After that 5 years, will you still need to go back and get a degree to advance? What if you just went ahead and went to grad school now? How much would that increase your earning potential afterward?
Part of the reason that I went back to school is that while I had a good and interesting job, it had little to no upward mobility and while I could gain years of experience, that experience wouldn’t get me anywhere near where I could go with a higher degree.
This is some of the worst advice I have ever read. Obviously she is just writing articles to have her articles read, not to help people. In other words, if you really want or need to “dodge the recession” as she puts it, join the military (as an officer) or go to grad/med school. They both DO pay off. You just have to be smart in your decisions and act accordingly to what happens in your own life. Don’t listen to this stupid whore.
Well, if you are going for your PhD, grad school is often funded. Particularly in the humanities.
While it’s good to be cautious, this is cynical to the point of being inaccurate.
Penelope- What bothers me about your post is that you are over-generalizing how these principles apply to what seems ALL majors.I think you should reframe your opinions in a different way. You make it sound like graduate school is a bad idea for EVERY field/career–This is bad and NOT true. You do realize that NOT all Phd’s are for tenure tracked positions as professors? I agree that some majors DO NOT benefit by going to grad school if there is not enough of a job market. An English major may not have the same opportunities as other majors. I can’t speak for MBA or business fields, but a lot of PhD programs FULLY fund you with an assistantship. Are you aware of that??? I am a psychology major, and that is a field where you pretty much HAVE to go to grad school if you want to make a decent salary. In order to become a liscensed psychologist (in NYS), you MUST get a Phd or PsyD. These programs are very competitive to get into. On average there can be 50-300 applicants for every school, and less than 10 are accepted (tuition free and assistantship). The need for psychologists remains high and this career is not as affected by the recession (in general). However, this may depend on geographic location. Career opportunities as a Psychologist where I live are readily available. So, please stop making generalizations that EVERY major/career will not be benefited by grad school.
I’m in my mid-20s, and my intuition is that the days of simply climbing up the workplace ladder are quickly coming to naught. And it’s really not just my intuition–employers are requiring more and more degrees for positions that didn’t used to require them. I agree in general that going to grad school just to dodge a bad economy isn’t a well thought out plan; however, I think the competitiveness of the marketplace is forcing people to gain whatever advantage they can.
I was unlucky enough to graduate with an advanced degree in the humanities during the recession.
I run a blog about it called selloutyoursoul.com which your readers might be interested in. My story was also covered in the latest Chronicle of Higher Education edition in an article called “Master’s in English: Will Mow lawns.” Let me know what you think.
While I understand where you are coming from, there are numerous flaws in your statements.
I think its unbelievably crazy how little people really learn about the real world while in college. I am a junior in college and I feel like I haven’t learned a thing (and yet I maintain a 3.5 GPA). I would bet that people could retain more information about their major by going out into the job market.
Unfortunately, jobs are not given to individuals who read books. Jobs are given to those who have the piece of paper that says they read books. The so-called scheme to avoid the real world in fact helps them better succeed in society’s current situation.
I certainly agree with you when you say “Most jobs are better than they seem: You can learn from any job.” Society, however, is powered by money, not the quest for knowledge. Graduates from MIT make an average of $65,000 starting pay, where graduates from Geneva College make approximately $37,000 starting pay. In a few years (graduating from MIT) you will earn back all the extra money you spent on tuition. In a decade you will have earned a whole lot more, just because you graduated from a renown school.
Now lets say you have a graduate degree. Just because you graduated with a Masters degree, you will earn 25% more than an individual with just an undergrad, statistically speaking. No matter what the motive of the school be (pyramid scheme, rounding up all the depressives, etc.)a graduate degree statistically helps people make more $$$$. As long as people know this, grad school will constantly be looked at as a means to increase monetary wealth.
As much as I hate to admit it you are right. I was in the Marines for 4 years got out and am about to be done with grad school. The people in my classes are largely idiots who are unemployable but think if they have a masters degree it will be a golden ticket. When I hear about how much they are in debt it makes me sick. Even worse are the people who go to online schools!
I’m not sure how a PhD in Mechanical or Materials engineering will help one to secure or achieve his/her future career. Is anyone has any experience or idea about this?BTW, I’m a PhD student in materials engineering and planning to quit it realizing that having a PhD won’t help me a lot in future where I already have a masters in materials engineering and think that it would be enough to get a job even at this diffcult job market. Any comments or suggestions in this regard will be highly appreciated.
Seriously? This is not true. First of all, the military opens up a lot of opportunities. Most people will NEVER have the kind of experiences military personnel do (travel, different cultures, teamwork on an unparalleled level, hardships, ability to work long hours and under extreme stress, and on and on) – but military are free to experience everything that is typical America. Many employers view military experience as giving potential employees skills and experiences that sheltered Americans never get. Anyways, about the grad degree – MOST employers require grad degrees for advancement/management, etc. Also, you left out many promising grad degrees such as speech pathology, OT, physician asst, any IT, etc. You could significantly improve job potential by getting a master’s degree in these fields. These jobs are not going away yet pay very well. Yes, grad school is not always the answer – but come on, there are definitely good opportunities out there. And last but not least – grad degrees make you stand out in a sea of people with bachelor’s degrees.
This post reflects a common source of confusion about grad school: when most people say “grad school,” they mean “grad school for the Humanities,” or “grad school with the intention of becoming a professor.” I know that this is what Penelope went to grad school for, and the article (and the majority of responses) make that assumption.
I first read this article a long time ago and it’s certainly been educational. It’s hammered home many points that need to be hammered home, the biggest one being that graduate school without a specific purpose is just a delay of adulthood. Whenever I think, “At least if I were in school, I’d be doing something…” I keep that in mind.
Penelope always comes from the perspective that working is better than not working, so we shouldn’t get too depressed about our shitty jobs. That’s a good perspective to have. But it’s also good to keep in mind that Penelope, due to luck and exceptional skills, has never been UNDER-employed in the way that many Americans currently are. She’s been poor and broke from losing good jobs and from starting businesses that failed, but she’s never worked in retail with a college degree.
I don’t mean to find fault with the author here as much as give readers a perspective that I think is necessary. To the author, “working” means making 30K a year or more. To many Americans, “working” means making under 30K, having student loans to pay off, and not quite knowing whether or not they can produce any value for people.
I’m particularly intrigued by the post by “Sarah” on June 4th. “Sarah” is someone whose job was made obsolete. Much of Penelope’s advice comes from the perspective of “Don’t become obsolete.” But what if you actually do become obsolete? What if it’s too late to catch up on technological changes in your current field and make yourself indispensable? What if you’re an ambitious person who is now barely qualified to serve coffee? What do you do then? Penelope doesn’t really have any advice for people in that position, except to not get into that position, but I imagine that if she were to look into the eyes of someone in that position, she would tell them to do whatever keeps them sane. And, in many cases, staying sane means education.
So, to sum it all up, I think that this post is great but any reader who takes it seriously should also consider what it left out:
1) Sometimes going into debt is worth it if it’s the only way to stay sane.
2) Grad school to become a college professor is not the same as an actual professional degree.
If you’re a displaced homemaker who is more than 10 years out of undergrad school and you’re trying desperately to get that “entry level” job because you’ve been out of work for more than 5 years too, then it’s either Grad School or take up permanent residence in the Battered Womens’ Shelter system and go on Welfare. Now I don’t know about the rest of the female Biology majors who graduated with their Bachelors of Science back in the 1990s but that’s not what I went to college for. To find myself competing for entry-level internships with people 15 years younger than myself and the result, my applications getting silent rejected or so many “thanks for your interest” letters I could wallpaper a room with them. Entry-level or intern because being a displaced homemaker means that the most recent work experience was so long ago that it might as well be nonexistent and I’m in the same boat with the class of 2009 Bachelor’s degree graduates; the only difference being that they have college professors who have seen them more recently and so remember them from Adam and I have to resort to using my high school teachers and family priest for those “references” that have recently while I was a homemaker become the only requirement for any job, even entry level or internship.
The only choice is grad school, and try to drown in more debt – naturally remaining in what few states have passed laws against employers checking your credit for a job.
What remains to be seen is if a MS in Biotechnology program at Yale or Johns Hopkins will be enough to force some company to hire me as an intern in a lab somewhere and trust me to so much as wash a petri dish or label specimen jars…for most of the problem is that I am Native American and for the most part having a Bachelor’s of Science gets me treated the same as a high-school dropout.
You see, for some people grad school is an absolute necessity these days. We will need our PhD before people will stop treating us like we must have dropped out of high school and must have criminal records or out-of-wedlock babies.
Hey Pamela… Hope things are better for you since you wrote.
I do think the author speaks from her behind
Penelope I love reading your blog. I wrote a response to this post on my own blog. Like you, I am a BU Alumni Class of 2010! :)
http://thethriftyscholar.blogspot.com/2011/01/graduate-school-refuge-from-recession.html
Getting a degree in English is ALWAYS a good idea.
“PhD programs are pyramid schemes.” Truest thing ever written; pity almost no-one spells it out so bluntly. Been there, done that and only thing i got was this damn t-shirt. :)
Mary
This is a very oversimplified viewpoint. The real answer is “it depends”.
The reality of life is that you need some sort of profession these days to have a decent job. If you just have a BA in the humanities, your prospects for a career are poor no matter what college you attended (think low paying clerical jobs that lead nowhere unless you are lucky and find a boss and a company that value you). You will probably need to get a professional graduate degree to do okay for yourself.
I spent 26 years in the military and it wasn’t a “bad alternative” at all. Often it was tough, but I wound-up a much better, capable, and self-confident person for it. Check it out before you simply slam it off-hand.
This seems like a huge generalization. Perhaps ‘degree inflation’ is the real problem? Everyone has a degree now. It’s almost meaningless if you have one, but NOT having one is usually worse.
If you want to go into social work, you have no options without a master’s degree. Zero. None. Absolutely, positively, zero percent. No, you won’t make enough money to make it worthwhile for a long time, but that is the reality. You cannot find a job (other than MAYBE a residential counselor at $10 an hour) without that masters’ degree. So advice to “not go to grad school” is ludicrous.