You think it would be really fun to have sex with me. Because, I think you can tell from my posts, I'll do anything. But maybe you can also tell from my posts that it's a little bit weird. Because you know that I'll say anything, too, but sometimes, I make you cringe.
I think I'm that way in bed, too.
This post is about work. And sex, which are two of the essential areas of life one needs to be able to function in before you can feel like a normal adult. And both sex and work are governed by a set of rules that many people are able to learn just by being in the world.
Asperger Syndrome compromises one's ability to read nonverbal social cues. A simple example of this deficit is answering the question, "How are you?" It is loaded with so many nonverbal issues that I simply freeze. Even if you tell me, "Just say fine," sometimes the situation looks special to me, and I can't figure out why it's special, so I can't talk.
So I've spent my life teaching myself the rules for what to do in each social situation. I study people, make notes for myself, and then test the notes to see what other situations my notes apply to. To get a sense of how awkward this looks, here's a video that is supposed to be a parody of people with Asperger's interacting with each other. But my family has such a high proportion of people with Asperger's that this video, honestly, is not far from what our life is like.
In my experience, the places with the most rules are work and sex. So, you can teach yourself the process of becoming better at work by applying the process of learning the rules about dating and sex. And vice versa. I, for example, am great at work rules and terrible at sex rules. So I teach myself using the reverse mechanism.
1. You can tell you need help if you are not having fun.
When I think about my sexual history, I think it is me basically not understanding that there are rules.
In college, where most people are experimenting with the rules of sex, I was missing them. Maybe because I was raised by my grandma, I honestly believed that if you had sex, it meant you were getting married. So I lost my virginity to a guy who said he'd marry me.
And on that day, I had no idea how sex worked. I don't know why I had not bothered to find out.
He was propped up on his arms when he couldn't find my vagina with his penis, so he said, "Put me inside."
I said, "What?"
"Inside you. Use your hand."
"I don't know where the hole is."
"What? Are you kidding me?"
"There are a lot of holes down there. I don't know which one is for sex."
"You are so stupid."
He eventually put his penis in. He said, "Am I in?"
I said, "I don't know."
Then he came. And I returned to doing homework.
2. If you can start by pretending it feels right, eventually it will feel right.
After college I posed nude to make money. A guy who paid a lot of money for a shoot looked at me for one second and said that I'm too uptight to be good. Another guy did soft-focus for Penthouse. I signed a release. He told me to undress, showed me a dressing room, and gave me a robe. I said, "I don't need this," and I undressed right in front of him.
"What should I do?"
"Lay down, and enjoy yourself."
"Enjoy myself? Do you have a book I could read?"
"No, I'm going to take pictures now. I mean you should masturbate."
I didn't know what to do. I only need one finger to move one inch back and forth to masturbate. He wouldn't see it. I told him I thought all the other women were faking it for him because masturbation is not visual.
"Okay. Can you fake it for me?" he said.
I tried, and then we both agreed that I couldn't. So I left.
3. Surround yourself with people who can effectively guide you through rules.
I tried having lesbian sex. I answered an ad. Picture her: The professional ballet dancer who had just quit, and to celebrate, she got breast implants. And me, the aspiring professional beach volleyball player.
She spent the whole evening talking about how smart I am and how many books I've read and how strong I am.
I spent the whole evening talking about how hot she is.
I did not realize that this exchange meant that I had to be the aggressor in bed.
I said, "Are we going to kiss now? We can't do this whole date and not kiss."
She said, "I need you to seduce me."
I said, "What? Are you kidding? Just take your clothes off. How are we going to have sex if we keep putting it off?"
She said, "It's not like that. There has to be a game or something."
I said, "Okay. You do the game. What should we do?"
She pouted. I did not realize it was part of the game.
I told her that we were really ineffective together and I thought we needed some guy there with us to run the show. We never did that. We never did anything.
4. If you don't learn the rules for navigating, life gets boring and repetitive.
I am fast-forwarding through things that are largely repetitive of the above situations. For example, there was the guy who asked me out while I was an arbitrage clerk at the Chicago Mercantile Exchange. He was on the phones, picking up orders, and I'd stand in the British Pound pit, flashing hand signals to him to tell him what was bid and offer. He'd flash back a hand signal like, buy ten at twenty. Then he started using other sorts of hand signals (open-outcry hand-signals are way more than just market indicators, believe me.) He flashed the sign for do you want to have lunch (spooning food into mouth for "eat" coupled with pretending to break something between your hands, for "break"). I went.
We dated. To get rid of him, I told him I was a lesbian and I only wanted to date him if there could be another woman there, too. That didn't just make him pursue me with more fervor. It made the whole trading floor pursue me. And I had no idea why.
Notice how there's one theme here: I have no idea how other people think about sex.
5. Do not get obsessively sidetracked by things that do not require social interaction.
So then I get married. The first time. We both have Asperger's. We both like reading about sex, but having it is more traumatic. He would not go down on me, so I started writing obsessively about his not going down on me. Like the time he told me he couldn't do it because he had a toothache.
We had sex, but he didn't like that it was messy, and I liked writing about it better than doing it.
We had sex two times in six years after we had a kid. And I got pregnant both times because I have studied my ovulation since I was 24, and I'm an ace at sticking my finger up my vagina and 1) gauging how open my cervix is and 2) pulling out some mucus on my finger and checking to see how elastic it is.
Even now I can't help getting excited about ovulation. Go to the bathroom right now and check your cervical mucus. It's fascinating. If it's elastic you are ovulating. I can peg my ovulation to the hour if I check every half-hour, which I can do because I can stick my hand in my vagina anywhere—even in a job interview, if the person leaves the room to get some water. So that's why I was able to have a kid (and a miscarriage) only having sex two times.
6. Rules never stop coming at you, they just get infinitely more nuanced.
And now, here I am with the farmer.
At this point, sex should be low pressure for me. I am one of the one percent of women who can have an orgasm just by thinking about having an orgasm. I'm not sure why this is. Maybe because my mom taught me to do Kegel exercises before I even got my first period. I can orgasm ten times before the guy has one.
But the nonverbal cues you do to get to the sex really stress me out. It seems like a dance. When you date, there's the official dance date you do, which I can handle. I've been dating enough to know you do dinner, talk, go to someone's house, move close, kiss, lay down, get close to sex, go to bed. That's the dance. I know where we are and what's coming next.
But if you're married, there's no dance. You are just there, in bed. So the dance becomes a micro dance. There are little cues you give the other person, a careful touch in a spot you don't usually touch, a kiss that is a kiss that means this-is-not-a-goodnight-kiss, a pointed question like, did the kids fall asleep? These are tiny cues that have to come with other, tiny cues.
I tell the farmer, "I can't take it. The subtle stuff. It's too much. Just tell me you want to have sex."
So a day went by, and he did that. He said, "I want to have sex."
I said, "Okay."
Then I said, "Hold it. This isn't fun. There needs to be something else."
So we went back to the dance. And I tried to pay close attention to nonverbal cues and then respond with the appropriate nonverbal cue.
Sometimes I can do that. Like if I take a Xanax. But a lot of times, he gives one nonverbal cue, like breathing warm and wet next to my ear. And I curl up in a ball.
I curl up in a ball and tell him I'm too anxious to have sex. Even after we have had sex hundreds of times. I still do it. At first he couldn't believe it. But then he saw that I don't know left and right, really, and my math skills end, largely, at third grade, and I am an idiot savant when it comes to memorizing statistics about Gen Y tendencies at work. So now he's learned to believe anything. And he has learned that the only way to get me uncurled is to talk to me.
He does facts. He says what he's doing with his hands, what he is feeling, what we will do, what I have done, he tries to stick to facts. And he narrates his movements as he goes. And he does not expect me to move or speak, until I've heard enough verbal cues to get back in the game.
Sometimes, when the farmer was dumping me, and people were saying, how can you stick with him? I would say, "He's so good in bed." And now you know what I mean.




I always thought the "rules" of sex were whatever you and your partner decide they need to be so you can both make it work and be happy about it.
Posted by jim on November 18, 2010 at 11:29 am | permalink |
Which, by the way, is what you and the farmer appear to be figuring out for yourselves.
Posted by jim on November 18, 2010 at 11:29 am | permalink |
Um, this is not that different than from non-Asperger married people.
Posted by Lisa on November 18, 2010 at 11:34 am | permalink |
This.
But the fact that he's willing to be flexible w/ his version of the rules, so that it works for you? Win. There aren't many guys who will do that. When the other stuff ("X") is getting you down, remember this.
Posted by Erika on November 18, 2010 at 11:38 am | permalink |
i want to have sex but i am scary men i love you
Love april nicole boughton
Posted by april boughton on March 3, 2011 at 12:56 pm | permalink |
There is no real "normal" way to handle sex. Every woman (and probably man, too, but I can't speak about that from experience) has her own personal sex education story, complete with resulting habits and preferences. Consider that one in three women has been molested in some way by a family member – that's enough women to make it almost seem normal. And then those women might end up responding in different ways. Some might have a lot of anxiety about sex, or become frigid, or decide only to have sex with other women, while some can maybe only have an orgasm while fantasizing about incest. We've all received messages about our bodies and levels of attractiveness and we all interpret them in our own ways. The important lesson to take away is that the fuzzy-focus Penthouse fantasy of a woman enjoying herself is just that: a fantasy. And a male fantasy. I hope all the women who read this remember that it's not useful for us to compare ourselves to one image of what is normal when it comes to sex. And I hope that both women and men read this and remember that porn stars are *actors*. Real life sex is much more complicated.
Posted by Shannon on November 18, 2010 at 11:38 am | permalink |
"Consider that one in three women has been molested in some way by a family member "
God, I hate bullshit, fantastical feminist rape "statistics"
Posted by Yeah, right on November 25, 2010 at 8:28 pm | permalink |
Raging against "fanatical feminist" whatever is an ad hominem argument. Name-calling doesn't prove anything, except that you're not willing to do any actual research to prove or disprove the argument that you dislike so much.
Posted by Dani on November 30, 2010 at 10:27 am | permalink |
As a person who indeed was molested as a child and is still in therapy because of it (Shut up! if you are thinking of sneering or saying something cruel or invalidating.); I can tell you of my experiences speaking out. I decided that one thing I could do with my anger was speak publicly about what happened to me.
I did and I do. Have done so for years. When I do, many, many women of all ages would eventually come to me to tell me their story, their children's stories, their friends stories, their sibling's stories, and on and on.
The nasty fellow who sneered about feminist statistics doesn't know it, but many of the women he knows probably including relatives, friends, dates, etc. have been molested as children and are too smart to tell an insensitive jerk like him. He is probably surrounded and will never know it because women will not make themselves vulnerable to someone as vicious as he is.
Just saying.
Posted by Evy on January 27, 2011 at 3:12 am | permalink |
yeah. . . because that is the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you god
Posted by William on March 16, 2011 at 2:27 am | permalink |
You never, ever fail to amuse, inspire and delight me with your breathtaking honesty. Thank-you.x
Posted by Alison May on November 18, 2010 at 11:43 am | permalink |
Interesting post. I wonder what it's like for my girls. Although alot of what you said resonated with myself as well. Lot's of rules that are hard to navigate.
At some point both my girls and myself have had conversations about birth control. I take them personally to get a shot. I just don't know what else to do. It's so hard for them to take care of themselves let alone a baby.
Posted by Mylinda on November 18, 2010 at 12:16 pm | permalink |
Ummm…what?
Posted by Jeffrey on November 18, 2010 at 1:05 pm | permalink |
The rest of the world ain't all that different from you, Penelope. Life isn't as pretty as the books make it out to be.
What's different is that you can put into words what the rest of us struggle with but don't know why.
Posted by Nancy on November 18, 2010 at 12:23 pm | permalink |
Asperger's is not a "disease".
Posted by jypsy on November 18, 2010 at 12:41 pm | permalink |
It isn't? Is this a controversial topic? I'm not even sure. But I changed the sentence, anyway. Just in case. Although there is something ironic about trying to be politically correct about Asperger's.
Penelope
Posted by Penelope Trunk on November 18, 2010 at 7:57 pm | permalink |
Why is that ironic? Is it because people with Asperger's are less inclined to be sensitive about themselves or that they are less likely to know how to be politically correct themselves or some combination of those two things or something else?
Posted by Camels With Hammers on November 28, 2010 at 11:42 am | permalink |
Asperger's is a set of symptoms. a "disorder" related to, but NOT autism (which you cannot miss). Despite that doctors put in on the very very highest end of the autism spectrum, it's just such a different level of functioning they should not be compared. But I will anyway. Like autism, Asperger's interests become so obsessive they can interfere with the ability to learn other things (social cues) that come easily to "normal" people. It explains a lot about your blog and why your interest in writing would supersede your interest in your (first) husband's feelings, desires, opinions, observations.
You're endearing in your ability to share, but kinda shocking, also fascinating. If you have Asperger's that explains a lot. Stay away from mercury, gluten, dairy. It makes it worse (hopefully you know that already and have turned your attn focus to that for your son's sake if not your own. you seem pretty happy w/ who you are and what you do and what you share. you're lucky you area(s) of interest is ones you can make a living at. fascinating reading (but not autism)
Posted by Susan on February 21, 2011 at 1:53 pm | permalink |
Your honesty is so sincere, yet so amusing (like always)! Nice post!
Posted by Taryn on November 18, 2010 at 12:50 pm | permalink |
Penelope,
Thank you. I run GRASP (also have AS), which is the largest organization in the world of "folks like us" (just passed 6,000 REAL members). Your brave piece is a wonderful contribution to the sorely-lacking sexuality aspect of our world. And were it not for the many teens (and subsequent legal issues) who also subscribe to us, I'd be asking your permission to forward this. But this is just wonderful content, and wonderful writing, and I hope you'll allow me to pass it on to appropriate pros who deal with spectrum sexuality issues.
Yours in thanks,
mjc
Posted by Michael John Carley on November 18, 2010 at 1:04 pm | permalink |
I realize that video was a parody. Was it supposed to be funny? I didn't think it was funny at all. In fact, I found it very insulting. By the way, I do not have Aspergers, but my 21-year-old son does.
Other than that, good post, Penelope.
Posted by PamN on November 18, 2010 at 1:11 pm | permalink |
Thank you again for a great post. As mentioned, your frankness about life is refreshing and always leaves me with "hmmm" moments. I watched the video clip with interest as I have a 16 yr old Asperger son and while it was a parody, it wasn't too far off the mark with some of the behaviours I've seen with my son both in groups and interacting with me. We can be having a conversation and all of a sudden he's talking about something totally unrelated (to me anyway) quite often. I attending a workshop for parents and kids with intellectual disabilities and we were comparing notes about sexuality and behaviours esp with the boys (i.e. when do you hug someone, can I buy her a gift, kiss her etc.). It is a tough one for sure and it is great to have your open and honest view. Thanks again once more for your insights and sharing.
Posted by Izzy on November 18, 2010 at 1:55 pm | permalink |
Oh, man, though, I can't wait until you learn which of these things are actually from the sexual abuse. It's not ALL because you have Asperger's, you know! Like:
- Getting instantly triggered and curling into a ball and not knowing why: symptom of sexual abuse.
- No knowledge of social cues around sex: symptom of Asperger's.
- Intense anxiety around sex: sexual abuse.
- Difficulty recognizing when people want to have sex or what they are trying to communicate about it: Asperger's.
- Willingness to stick your fingers inside yourself during a break in conducting a job interview: sexual abuse.
- Lack of awareness of how that stuff connects to sexual abuse: both sexual abuse and Asperger's.
It can be tricky because Asperger's is often caused by abuse (yes yes I'm sure there is a genetic component, as with alcoholism for example, but those genetic switches both still get "switched on" by abuse) so there is a lot of overlap between the symptoms. But some things still just stand alone.
Posted by Dani on November 18, 2010 at 2:08 pm | permalink |
Good grief Dani, autism is not caused by abuse. Why would you say something like this? Yes it's genetic but it's not akin to the genetics of alcoholism. Were one genetically predisposed to be alcoholic, one could abstain from alcohol (however difficult) and have a typical life free from the ravages of the disorder.
The same can't be said for autism. The only way one who inherits it could be neurologically typical is if they ceased to exist once autism became evident. There is no choice involved to which one could exercise their control to not be neurologically atypical.
Posted by Kathleen on November 18, 2010 at 4:09 pm | permalink |
I dunno. An inability to read social skills, well, there are little kids who begin school and are abused due to neglect. They have these problems! Seems possible to me! What we know about AS and alcoholism is evolving. Not all alcoholism is genetic. Some is situational. There goes your theory!
Posted by Lisa on November 19, 2010 at 5:55 am | permalink |
This is probably way too complicated a discussion to have in comments, but let's have it anyway!
It's not actually true that abstaining from alcohol would give an alcoholic a typical life free from the ravages of the disorder. As people in AA like to say, they don't have an alcohol problem, they have a living problem – that is, the compulsion to drink is only one symptom of a complicated disease that also includes obsession, anger issues, control issues, isolation, codependency, lying, perfectionism, etc.
That's why they call it "white-knuckling it" or "dry drunks" when people stop drinking without dealing with the underlying reasons that they drank. Generally when people are successful in not drinking that way, it's because they've switched addictions, like my friend's mom who quit drinking without AA but now is stoned most of the time and frequently drives and emails stoned.
Those other symptoms are common to all addictions, and they come from abuse. I used to work as a drug and alcohol counselor for teens, and elsewhere in the field before that, and the organization I worked for had regular in-service trainings in which, no matter which professional was giving it, the link between abuse and addiction was very clear and accepted. It kind of surprised me, actually, because it's so NOT clear and accepted in the mainstream world.
So I'm not saying that there's a choice involved in autism. There's no choice involved in addiction; it's a disease with genetic and psychological components. There are therapies that can relieve an increasing number of the symptoms over time if you continue using them, is all, mainly in the form of twelve-step programs.
And yeah – what Lisa said is one reason! Everyone I have ever met who has Asperger's had serious abuse symptoms and most of them had serious and well-known abuse histories. (As opposed to the many people out there who are in denial about their abuse or are still repressing it, I mean.)
A lot of the information about Asperger's – like what Penelope shares – includes a lot of the clearest and most common symptoms of abuse, seemingly with no awareness of the fact. That is: people aren't taking the possibility of different kinds of abuse into their research on Asperger's or their writing about it, for the most part.
(Some people are, especially those who study "institutional autism". I found this hilarious comment on one blog:
"Autism can definitely be caused by abuse. It can be caused by any trauma in early infancy. It's rude to mention this, though, because mothers of autistic children are always on guilt trips, so the researchers always say that victims of infantile abuse have 'autistic-like symptoms.' This is a pointless distinction, especially since there are no neurological tests or genetic tests for autism, so there is no way to distinguish so-called institutional autism from any other form of autism.")
Which means that they can't separate out the effects of abuse that may be getting lumped in with the symptoms of Asperger's. So sure, it could be that everyone they're studying has also been abused and these things are just co-existing and getting lumped together. In fact, one study found that at least 95% of children with Asperger's were being physically or emotionally abused at home in varying ways. ("Screaming and yelling, cursing, threatening to hit or spank, threatening to kick out or send away, calling the child dumb or lazy… slaps on the hand, arm, and leg; hitting on the buttocks with a belt or brush; spanking on the buttocks with a hand; pinching and shaking". http://journals.lww.com/mcnjournal/Abstract/2002/11000/Maternal_Discipline_of_Children_with_Asperger.10.aspx) Much as our society wants to downplay these things, they are harmful to the child and if, as in that study, that's the parent's regular method of "discipline", it's going to cause a lot of the symptoms I'm talking about.
(I'm NOT just talking about sexual abuse – just to clarify, since the context here was the confusion in Penelope's post between sexual abuse symptoms and Asperger's symptoms, and many people conflate "abuse" with "sexual abuse".)
Posted by Dani on November 19, 2010 at 5:14 pm | permalink |
Dani,
Your comment that you "can't wait" until Penelope recognizes signs of her sexual abuse? How cruel and dishonoring of her life and her past.
The symptoms of childhood trauma can present similarly to Aspergers. It is not that simple to distinguish which are reactions to sexual abuse or Aspergers. Early trauma heightens a person's anxiety in a way that can cause them to misread social cues, similarly to a nonverbal learning disability.
Posted by mcbm on November 30, 2010 at 2:18 pm | permalink |
mcbm: It's not cruel and dishonoring of her life and her past. I'm not saying "Ha ha, it's going to be so great when you realize you were abused"; I'm acknowledging the fact that Penelope has written here, EXTENSIVELY, about her sexual abuse history. If you read what I wrote more carefully, you'll see that what I said was that I couldn't wait until she was able to recognize which of the things she describes here are signs of the Asperger's she's talked about even more extensively, and which are signs of the abuse history that she has shared about so bravely and honestly at length in this blog.
Posted by Dani on November 30, 2010 at 2:32 pm | permalink |
Wow Dani; I can see right away that you do not actually know someone in real life that has Asperger's!
Posted by Rishona on December 23, 2010 at 3:24 pm | permalink |
No kidding! I've never seen anything like what Dani is saying. WTH???!!! My 14-year old son has Aspergers and if he has ever been abused, I would like to know how, when and where. That is the most ridiculous piece of crap I've ever seen. Where did she get this?! Autism is likely genetic with an environmental trigger. My son did have a somewhat traumatic c-section birth, and I did have pre-eclampsia at the end of my pregnancy with him. But abuse? That is an accusation and clearly does not fit any of the kids I know with autism. Good grief.
Posted by Lisa Z on April 4, 2011 at 7:45 pm | permalink |
I get it, Penelope. I get tired if my partner tries to play too many games and then I get bored and grouchy. I never understand when he isn't "in the mood". I didn't know there needed to be a mood. I always want to know if they make a pill for that. I guess that's why there is alcohol. To create the mood. I don't understand dressing up or role playing. It's really a functional thing that can be good or bad and if there is too much crap surrounding it, then it becomes bad.
Posted by AutieZombieGirl on November 18, 2010 at 2:11 pm | permalink |
This is the most quintessentially "Penelope" post I've read in a while. Truly a masterpiece.
Posted by Chris Yeh on November 18, 2010 at 2:19 pm | permalink |
Outstanding writting. What a great example of entertaining, information. As a begining writer, I'm in awe. I love your opening sentence!
Posted by Chuck Rylant on November 18, 2010 at 2:23 pm | permalink |
Wow!!! You never fail to be totally you. Refreshing as always.
Posted by Will on November 18, 2010 at 2:56 pm | permalink |
This post is insane. I read all your posts and this one is my favorite so far. I couldn't talk about my sex life on a blog at all and the fact that you just did that and were actually totally honest and no-frills about it, is too much. I've been smiling all day after I've read this post.
I don't have Asperger's and I still have a lot of similarities to what you say.
YOU ROCK!
Posted by Srini Venkataramani on November 18, 2010 at 3:32 pm | permalink |
Ditto jypsy (hiya!), Asperger's is not a disease. Please correct this Penelope.
Posted by Kathleen on November 18, 2010 at 3:35 pm | permalink |
Actually the rules of sex are really hard for a lot of people who don't have autism spectrum disorders as well.
May I refer to you to the wonderful scarleteen.com .
Posted by ella on November 18, 2010 at 3:54 pm | permalink |
Loved the post. You are one of the most fascinating people I read.
Carol
Posted by Carol Saha on November 18, 2010 at 4:10 pm | permalink |
"But then he saw that I don't know left and right, really, and my math skills end, largely, at third grade, and I am an idiot savant when it comes to memorizing statistics about Gen Y tendencies at work."
Change the idiot savant to autistic savant – many,many years ago, they used to kill or chase out of town the village idiots from whence idiot savant was derived.
Posted by Mark W. on November 18, 2010 at 4:18 pm | permalink |
I often wonder why I continue to read this blog until a post like this one comes along. Then I realize I read it for the same reasons that I stop at car accidents or watch "Cops" or "Intervention." It makes me feel more normal or that things in my life and career are going to work out. Whenever I think that I'm too neurotic to be successful, I pull up at this trainwreck and take heart.
Thanks for being you.
Posted by Virgil Starkwell on November 18, 2010 at 4:24 pm | permalink |
I think I've learned more from your blog than I have from boarding school and college and doing a Masters (and you learn a lot from boarding school). I never knew anything about cervical mucus before. I didn't even know there was such a thing as cervical mucus. But then again, I am one month off of 24 so maybe it's just time I find out and start studying my ovulation.
Posted by Harriet May on November 18, 2010 at 4:32 pm | permalink |
Always such a delightful, honest, shocking and overall sincere read. Thank you for lightening up an otherwise stressful day for me! It's always so nice to take a break with my latte and read over your latest post.
~Robbin
Posted by Robbin on November 18, 2010 at 4:43 pm | permalink |
Hi Penelope,
Thanks for the post, this is great. It would be interesting to get a guy with Asperger's to talk about the same topic.
Posted by Kevin Burke on November 18, 2010 at 4:43 pm | permalink |
I never had the problems with sex which you describe here because I discovered in my childhood that there were these quaint things called books, which could be gotten for FREE from any library. It had all kinds of information in them, includng information about sex.
Also, I went to this thing called a school, which had these old people which taught you things, and one of the things they taught was sex.
And I had these things called parents, who also taught me about sex.
And I watched this thing called a TV, which had programs on a channel called PBS about sex.
So I seemed to know all sorts of things about sex ever since I was little.
Also, I went to this place called a bath, where I washed myself and discovered what portions of my body exist below my eyeballs, and, as if I needed to be reminded of what my body was like, there were these people who, from time to time would give me this thing called a physical exam which reaffirmed where all my holes are, as if common sense didn't put me in the know.
Another thing I discovered early on was that I had this thing called a mouth, and so I could ask questions when I did not understand something. It helped with relationships.
So I did not have the problems you had, but then, maybe I have a higher IQ than you do.
Certainly AS did not interfere in the sexua and vocational aspects of my life (or of any of the Aspies I know).
Posted by Aspie Guy on November 18, 2010 at 5:01 pm | permalink |
In that case, I, personally, am shocked that you are here and not having tea with Stephen Hawking to discuss your high IQ.
Posted by Harriet May on November 18, 2010 at 6:03 pm | permalink |
Maybe you should have taken out the books on how not be be so self aggrandinzing? They have those books, too, you know.
Posted by justamouse on November 26, 2010 at 10:43 pm | permalink |
You don't sound anything like an Aspie. Were you just kidding? How do you know you have Asperger? Or could you elaborate more? Because there are many people with Asperger that could benefit from knowing how you and others you know with Asperger have managed this. And no, I am not kidding. Please elaborate.
Posted by Mark on January 29, 2011 at 2:54 pm | permalink |
To the High IQ guy: Yes, I think You have Aspergers.
Due to: missing empathy.
You are learning from books and movies – thus acting our scripts.
I am not Asp. I am married to a male that is. Thus I belong to a forum where woman discuss a lot of sexual problems they have with Asp men. So, yes, be careful: there are problems. Make sure you listen closely to what a woman is telling you then.
Can you do two things at once in bed? Play with 2 parts of her, or one at a time?
Just helping you out with info…
Posted by Dana on February 21, 2011 at 2:52 pm | permalink |
I cringed when I read your reply. Aspergers is such a broad spectrum condition that no matter what some might read or watch or be told, no matter how much information one might absorb that we still have difficulties when it comes to having sex or more generally how to even cope with relationships.
I have an IQ of 145 but I have always found things difficult. Whilst my brother and friends found matter easy, to me it was sometimes so much of a chore I didn't bother.
Still I have at 42 managed to have 3 long term relationships. One of Ten years, one of 6 and my current girlfriend of 3 1/2 years. I got married to the second but I still don't know why; I just thought I would goshould along with it and let her arrange everything. I thought I must love her because I wanted to spend so much time with her but I grew very bored and needless to say I got divorced after just 2 1/2 years.
I remember sitting in a room with a beautiful girl in my early twenties. I went round for a coffee. I thought things might progress and it was obvious that we liked each other but she spent so much time waiting for me to make a move and I felt so awkward that I just made my excuses and went.
My current girlfriend is much different to anyone else I've met before and has no qualms about telling me when she wants sex and what she would like me to do.She She is so frank and blunt that I don't need to feel bewildered and awkward wondering when is the right time to make a move. I still lie in bed now analysing how long I should kiss for and if she likes what i'm doing but she'll tell me when things are good and compliments me; so I know what works well and what doesn't.
I have always had difficulty understanding my feelings and I'm always being criticised for not smiling much or showing emotion. If someone attractive walks by me and smiles, I will look straight ahead. I've tried smiling back but it seems inappropriate. I'm not going to sleep with them so why do I need to smile at them. I find myself looking out the corner of my eye to see how they react to me because I want to know what drives peoples emotions and what is appropriate in what context.
My current girlfriend thought I was gay/Bi for a long time because she said I looked uninterested and it didn't seem like I enjoyed sex.
The point i'm getting at is no matter what, it's bl**dy hard to know how to behave in any situation involving other people but when it comes to sex it's still like a maze.
.
Posted by Paul Palmville on September 28, 2011 at 10:07 pm | permalink |
I cringed when I read your reply. Aspergers is such a broad spectrum condition that no matter what some might read or watch or be told, no matter how much information one might absorb that we still have difficulties when it comes to having sex or more generally how to even cope with relationships.
I have an IQ of 145 but I have always found things difficult. Whilst my brother and friends found matter easy, to me it was sometimes so much of a chore I didn't bother.
Still I have at 42 managed to have 3 long term relationships. One of Ten years, one of 6 and my current girlfriend of 3 1/2 years. I got married to the second but I still don't know why; I just thought I would goshould along with it and let her arrange everything. I thought I must love her because I wanted to spend so much time with her but I grew very bored and needless to say I got divorced after just 2 1/2 years.
I remember sitting in a room with a beautiful girl in my early twenties. I went round for a coffee. I thought things might progress and it was obvious that we liked each other but she spent so much time waiting for me to make a move and I felt so awkward that I just made my excuses and went.
My current girlfriend is much different to anyone else I've met before and has no qualms about telling me when she wants sex and what she would like me to do.She She is so frank and blunt that I don't need to feel bewildered and awkward wondering when is the right time to make a move. I still lie in bed now analysing how long I should kiss for and if she likes what i'm doing but she'll tell me when things are good and compliments me; so I know what works well and what doesn't.
I have always had difficulty understanding my feelings and I'm always being criticised for not smiling much or showing emotion. If someone attractive walks by me and smiles, I will look straight ahead. I've tried smiling back but it seems inappropriate. I'm not going to sleep with them so why do I need to smile at them. I find myself looking out the corner of my eye to see how they react to me because I want to know what drives peoples emotions and what is appropriate in what context.
My current girlfriend thought I was gay/Bi for a long time because she said I looked uninterested and it didn't seem like I enjoyed sex.
The point i'm getting at is no matter what, it's bl**dy hard to know how to behave in any situation involving other people but when it comes to sex it's still like a maze.
.
Posted by Paul Palmville on September 28, 2011 at 10:07 pm | permalink |
I think your reply re-inforces the fact that your Aspergers makes you blind to the layers of nuances involved in the sexual "dance" Ms Trunk struggles with. Everyone has access to the education sources you mention, yet sexuality confounds many people, NT and ASD alike. If you go to a sex discussion forum or listen to a phone-in sex show, you will see endless questions from people who are in their late teens and still totally confused, desperate for guidance, agonizing over the most minute details…if such and such feeling is "normal", if it is okay to pretend to do this or that, control issues, plus thousands of kids still don't know how you get pregnant or diseases even late in their teens.
Posted by Anonymous on October 15, 2011 at 1:53 pm | permalink |
I think your reply re-inforces the fact that your Aspergers makes you blind to the layers of nuances involved in the sexual "dance" Ms Trunk struggles with. Everyone has access to the education sources you mention, yet sexuality confounds many people, NT and ASD alike. If you go to a sex discussion forum or listen to a phone-in sex show, you will see endless questions from people who are in their late teens and still totally confused, desperate for guidance, agonizing over the most minute details…if such and such feeling is "normal", if it is okay to pretend to do this or that, control issues, plus thousands of kids still don't know how you get pregnant or diseases even late in their teens.
Posted by Anonymous on October 15, 2011 at 1:53 pm | permalink |
Excellent and helpful post, Penelope.
Excellent and helpful comment about which parts are Asperger's-related and which parts are sexual-abuse-related. Very useful.
I remember hearing Dr. Phil explain, in one of his earliest shows,that women will not be willing to have sex in the evening if they were dissed or if there was a fight (or whatever) earlier in the day. Long memories, women have. This does seem to be entirely true. The dance starts early in the day, and can get ruined. Take a lesson, guys.
This post reminds of the beginnings of actual frank explanation and discussion, years ago, by Dear Abby. People were totally astounded that she could actually DISCUSS masturbation (and other topics) in a PUBLIC newspaper column with all SORTS of sensitive readers. (You get the idea, I hope.)
The farmer sounds like an amazing guy.
Posted by cig67 on November 18, 2010 at 5:13 pm | permalink |
This isn't just true for women. Why should I want to make love to a bitchy nag? Women who treat men like they don't have emotions get what they deserve: a cold bed at night.
Posted by inthemiddle on November 20, 2010 at 10:40 am | permalink |
Wow… heck of a way to come across you on the internet.
Thanks for your brave and brutally honest writing. You're inspiring me to start a blog about my life and relationships…
Posted by Jamie on November 18, 2010 at 5:18 pm | permalink |
A post that lends credence to numerous negative sterotypes about people with Asperger Syndrome, and which clearly ranks up there with anything that the Autism Women's Network puts out. I'm sure they'd love to have you.
Posted by Mike on November 18, 2010 at 5:47 pm | permalink |
Here's something I would love to read about (and maybe someone here can point me toward sources): How to have a successful relationship with someone with Asperger's.
My fiance has Asperger's and while for the most part I think our relationship is awesome, we do fairly often find ourselves in scenarios where neither of us can understand what the other is thinking or saying. He's pretty good at talking things out (unusual for an Aspie, maybe) until he comes up against something he just cannot compute. And no matter what I do I can't make it make sense to him, so he'll act like whatever it is does not exist. (Perhaps to him it doesn't, but it seems awfully dismissive from my perspective.)
Anyway, that's a poor attempt at describing my own Aspie relationship foibles, but maybe somebody else out there is better at putting it into words. And, you know, dealing with it.
Posted by Becca on November 18, 2010 at 8:41 pm | permalink |
I'd love to see that too. I'm an Aspie and a sex worker, and my partner is fairly neurotypical. It drives me nuts when he reads weird subtexts into things I say – I've told him for years just to take me literally, but he won't, or can't, or doesn't get it. I don't do subtle cues, and I'm sure I miss some of his, honestly.
I became a sex worker because I'd spent so much time studying sex and being a sexuality geek that it was the one part of human interaction that I just "got." I knew if I did x, I would get y, and so on. I could talk to strangers about sex but I had no idea how to make small talk. I actually learned people reading, boundary negotiations, the dreaded small talk and other "soft" social skills through sex work, because as I moved up in my work over the years, my job started to depend on it.
Posted by Sabrina on November 18, 2010 at 10:15 pm | permalink |
Interesting. I think one of the reasons our relationship works as well as it does is because I am pretty blunt and straightforward. I have an easier time than he does understanding subtle cues, but I tend to think direct is the way to go. And if I have a problem, I'll say so. Luckily for me, he appreciates that quality more than most people would.
Posted by Becca on November 19, 2010 at 6:44 pm | permalink |
Hi Sabrina, I'm fascinated by your story. I watched a documentary about the daughter of a high profile judge, who worked in the adult industry as a dancer. The documentary was about the daughter's struggle in unionising the adult industry. I came to appreciate that highly intelligent people, from well-to-do families, worked in highly exploitative industries. May I ask, as we both share Asperger's Disorder (I'm long-term unemployed,) if working in the world's oldest profession is necessity or opportunity?
I do know we are at risk in dealing with Narcissists/Psychopaths; where we fail to understand social cues and may easily be manipulated. This would concern me in this line of work. Is this something you've had to overcome?
Posted by Inspired2Bme on February 5, 2012 at 4:00 am | permalink |
Sorry to comment late in the game, but a schoolmate of mine and his later wife, both on the Autism spectrum (Asperger's specifically) penned a book called "Autistics' Guide to Dating" – can be found on Amazon.
Might be worth a read?
Posted by Krista on January 10, 2011 at 1:22 am | permalink |
Hi Becca, I'm fascinated by your story. I watched a documentary about the daughter of a high profile judge, who worked in the adult industry as a dancer. The documentary was about the daughter's struggle in unionising the adult industry. I came to appreciate that highly intelligent people, from well-to-do families, worked in highly exploitative industries. May I ask, as we both share Asperger's Disorder (I'm long-term unemployed,) if working in the world's oldest profession is necessity or opportunity?
I do know we are at risk in dealing with Narcissists/Psychopaths; where we fail to understand social cues and may easily be manipulated. This would concern me in this line of work. Is this something you've had to overcome?
Posted by Inspired2Bme on February 5, 2012 at 3:11 am | permalink |
A more accurate title might be "What it is like to have sex with Penelope Trunk."
Posted by Alison on November 18, 2010 at 8:50 pm | permalink |
Dear Penelope,
Your description of your early sex romps reminds me of some of mine. When I was thirteen I discovered two things: masturbation and my father's stag movie collection. Yeah, stag movies… This was before 1970, before pornography flicks in Pussy Cat Theaters, before the sexual revolution. This was a time in the early sixties when parents, or at least mine, checked blue covered medical books out of the library and told me to read them. They were all about biology, with drawings of penises and vaginas. Nothing about blow jobs and felling up, which I learned from Bruce Saidel in the attic of our house. And Ronny Silverman, he showed me materbation techniques on the toilet. (To this day I wonder if he was, or is, gay.) Still I'm glad he demonstrated the hand part because my pillow ritual was chaffing my skin.
It's so much easier today for kids, don't ya think? The internet is full of free training videos. Some call it porn. Whatever it is, it's graphic enough to show anybody how to do it – ALL OF IT…and more than that. (So they tell me. I've never watched porn. Only directed it.)
Your farmer…I'm so impressed with him. He knows you write this stuff. He knows some of his life is exposed to the world. And yet he allows you to express your naked self in this way. Sure, he knew what you were about before you guys hooked up. But in a marriage arrangement, many times the liberties draw in once the wedding rings go on. Doesn't seem the case here. He must really, really love you.
Irv
Posted by Irving Podolsky on November 18, 2010 at 8:58 pm | permalink |
I'm so glad you mention the cervical mucus method for birth control. It's as easy as you describe and 99.9% effective (actually, it's 100% but I'm told that statistically you just can't say that). I try to get all my clients and all the women I know off The Pill and into plunging a finger into their vulvas. I've been using the method successfully for over 15 years.
Even the World Health Organization (stunner!!) acknowledges that the birth control pill is carcinogenic: http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2005/aug/05080803.html
I once had a lover who considered himself ADD. He told me right from the start that the only way he could stay present during sex was to talk. Constantly. It was a challenge at first (what to say?!?), but I found that it was easiest to do as the farmer does: narrate everything. Before, during and after, just keep the flow going. Using my voice even more during sex and hearing his made the whole thing hotter–our voices became additional instruments of penetration. It got to the point where I could come from hearing the sound of his voice.
You aren't the only one who can have orgasms from thought!! ::))
~ Kim
Posted by Kim Anami on November 18, 2010 at 9:01 pm | permalink |
Oh boy, another one of THESE posts. Funny how your so clueless about social norms, but you always know how to shock and titillate.
Posted by John on November 18, 2010 at 9:09 pm | permalink |
You say the most shocking things! I had to read this one out loud to my husband who thought it was very honest(he's English and not easily shocked) to which I asked if he minded if I told my readers what he does in bed. He said to say that he sleeps mostly. I am curious as to what The Farmer thinks about you telling all his trade secrets.
Posted by Elizabeth Harper on November 19, 2010 at 1:10 am | permalink |
Long time reader – this is TMI
Posted by Dean on November 19, 2010 at 6:10 am | permalink |
Your writing is beautiful. I love how it wastes no space.
Posted by Davy Hamburgers on November 19, 2010 at 10:35 am | permalink |
My friend forwarded this to me. What a great essay. Thorough and interesting and really good natured. I enjoyed this a lot.
Posted by Gloria on November 19, 2010 at 10:46 am | permalink |
Good advice for the workplace social rules. Thank you.
Also:
Irv, you're a dinosaur. "…yet he allows you to express your naked self in this way." ALLOW? She's an adult; she doesn't need permission.
People raised in a barrel with little social interaction can feel as if they have Aspergers, but barrel-folk can learn the skills whereas Aspergers have trouble seeing when/how/where the skills get applied.
Posted by Caryn on November 19, 2010 at 3:31 pm | permalink |
Actually Caryn, I was referring to Penelope's naked self in bed with the farmer. Her posts are not just about her own sexual life, but her husband's as well. Does he have an opinion about this? I'm sure he does. Either he feels comfortable with his personal life being exposed, or he doesn't.
Of course, no husband or wife should try to stifle the behavior of the other. Hopefully before marriage, or any other type of intimate partnership, both people would come to an agreement as to what is acceptable within the relationship and and what is not. What should be "allowed," and what should not. This allowance is a state of mind and heart, an attitude of acceptance and compromise, the decision to put your partner's needs before your own, even if you don't agree with that behavior, even if you it bothers you. Yet, if it bothers (or hurts) you too much, this "allowance" on the outside but not on the inside could lead to someone getting hurt.
No Caryn, there's no getting around this "allowance" thing, because we all have opinions about behavior, and we make value judgments based on that philosophy.
So when I commented on the farmer allowing Penelope to expose her life (and his), I was praising him. Because whether he accepts it or not, he knows she needs to do it, even if it means giving up his privacy.
Irv
Posted by Irving Podolsky on November 19, 2010 at 5:56 pm | permalink |
I was thinking about how you check your cervical mucus today at work and realized if you check it during a job interview you probably eat it afterward, unless you carry a tissue in your purse.
I'm not sure how I feel about it, but Asperger's is going to end up like Tourette syndrome, where most people assume "Oh, you have Tourette's? That must mean you yell bad words all the time", but in the case of Asperger's the things they'll assume is rambling on about the same subject all the time and not being able to read facial expressions. I've been diagnosed with Asperger's a couple times and that doesn't describe me at all. Everything about me is pretty much normal except for one Stereotypic movement that I do to relieve anxiety, and it isn't that noticeable.
Posted by Daniel on November 19, 2010 at 4:40 pm | permalink |
This is beautifully written. Also, I'm a little freaked out about realizing that sex ed. should probably be included in my son's IEP at some point.
Thanks for the link!
– stark. raving. mad. mommy.
Posted by starkravingmadmommy on November 19, 2010 at 5:14 pm | permalink |
> before you can feel like a normal adult
This comment irked me. You have Asperger's! You'll never be "normal" in general and if you were, you'd throw away what makes you special and awesome. I'd pretty much lose all respect for you.
Posted by oldfashioned on November 19, 2010 at 5:25 pm | permalink |
I'm an Aspie and most women say I'm the best lay they've every had.
Posted by Aspie on November 19, 2010 at 5:49 pm | permalink |
Dear Aspi male – who says he is the best lay..
That is wonderful.
However, do you have long-term relationships? Or short stints. A few months of sex – and then it's over and on to the next babe.
Emotion – empathy – helps keep the relationships going over the long term.
Knowing a person. What they want in bed. Not the same thing . Growing together.
Just giving you some thoughts.
Posted by Dana on February 21, 2011 at 2:55 pm | permalink |
- who says he is the best lay..Aspi male
That is wonderful.
However, do you have long-term relationships? Or short stints. A few months of sex – and then it's over and on to the next babe.
Emotion – empathy – helps keep the relationships going over the long term.
Knowing a person. What they want in bed. Not the same thing . Growing together.
Just giving you some thoughts.
Posted by Dana on February 21, 2011 at 2:56 pm | permalink |
Thank you for this wonderful article. I have long wondered what it's like from your side of the "divide".
Posted by Joe Marfice on November 19, 2010 at 5:52 pm | permalink |
Terrific post, as always quite memorable and a great read. I'm a big fan of the blog and was really excited that you liked the video. Thanks for the link!
Posted by Lesley on November 20, 2010 at 11:32 am | permalink |
P{short for your name…i'm sure you know it)…ur weird. Now I get the whole "let a person guide you the right way thing" but after that the training wheels are off,often you have to know just like the next person knows,what you're doing honestly sex to me is like how you have sex but,honestly I get the clue way before we get naked to know whats gonna happen.Honestly if I was like you in sex like i was in bussiness I'd long get screwed(no pun intended)
Posted by JuiceMan_V on November 20, 2010 at 9:23 pm | permalink |
This was brilliantly written. I'm not sure if you've delved into such personal topics at other times, but I think the clarity, humor, and insight of this piece do a great service to people with Aspergers and to people more generally. Writing's ability to allow us to experience another's situation is one of its highest purposes — it can foster understanding and acceptance, and change the way people treat one another.
I generally read blogs for more analytical content, but this post made me understand why it is so valuable that people choose to share their personal stories in this way. The more that great content like this appears on the internet, the better we will understand one another, and slowly life will improve for everyone. The internet is like a compassion machine, helping us connect to the minds and experiences of one another.
Great job.
Posted by MT on November 21, 2010 at 9:56 am | permalink |
Sure are alot of snarky comments on here.
Posted by Mylinda on November 22, 2010 at 10:54 am | permalink |
Yeah, what's up with that? I asked her in a post why she doesn't put Asperger up front as "THE" problem and start from there, because I'm selfishly trying to solve the Asperger part for myself, and she was reluctant, and her reasoning was kind of weak I thought – but now I see why. Are there really people who have Asperger, but are otherwise just fine? How? I need their help.
Posted by Mark on January 29, 2011 at 3:28 pm | permalink |
This sounds a lot like sex- with a healthy dose of honesty. A rare thing indeed. Love the post.
Posted by DL on November 22, 2010 at 6:12 pm | permalink |
Elastic cervical mucus? Wow. Just when I thought I knew all there was to know about vaginas, I stand corrected.
Posted by David on November 22, 2010 at 10:59 pm | permalink |
i love your honesty and humor
Posted by renair on November 23, 2010 at 4:16 am | permalink |
I have Aspergers and have had absolutely zero issues in bed. In fact, I think Asperger's is an asset when used properly. I'm married to someone normal, BTW.
Posted by Someone with Aspergers on November 25, 2010 at 8:09 pm | permalink |
I'm ambivalent about leaving a comment- because at the moment, there are *69* comments.
Posted by Doug Jones on November 25, 2010 at 8:31 pm | permalink |
A man will put up with almost anything to have sex with a woman he loves.
Posted by ken in sc on November 25, 2010 at 9:25 pm | permalink |
Penelope, I just found your site on an Instapundit link.
I have raised two autistic children. I have never been able to know exactly what it is like to process sensory input as an autistic or AS person.
Thank you for sharing your experiences. I will read your other posts hoping that this will help me better understand my children.
Thank you again
Posted by Chuck on November 25, 2010 at 9:47 pm | permalink |
I like that you only say what needs to be said, even though that doesn't work for everyone. I came in via an Instapundit link too. Is there anything your parent(s) could have said to help, or does this only work if you learn it on your own?
Posted by D on November 25, 2010 at 11:47 pm | permalink |
Today (as opposed to when I was a kid) schools are good at proividing services to kids with sensory integration dysfunction. The better a kid can be at dealing with different types of input, the better the kid will be at coping with normal adult situations.
This is true for pragmatic language as well (pragmatics is the fancy term for nonverbal cues). Kids get coached in pragmatic language in school, usually as part of an IEP and this is the same exact skill the kids will need as adults — not just in bed, but everywhere.
Penelope
Posted by Penelope Trunk on June 7, 2011 at 9:24 pm | permalink |
You make me wince, crack me up and make me say aww, all in one post.
The farmer? He gets you. He is gold. Hang on to him.
Brilliant, brilliant post. I wish I could've written it it was so good– but only you can.
Posted by justamouse on November 26, 2010 at 10:35 pm | permalink |
I don't think you have a disease. I just think you're a cold hearted bitch. Why get married in the first place? You're as much of an a-hole as the men are idiots for marrying you in the first place. Have fun with your cold loveless life.
Posted by Dave-o on November 27, 2010 at 11:34 pm | permalink |
Wow. Woman opens up about her sex life, and your response is blatant misogyny? I don't know where your logic stands on this, but it kind of looks like "women should shut up and blow me." The hell you come from?
Oh, wait, you came from Instapundit. That explains everything. Retards like you are the reason masculinity as a whole sucks.
Posted by ??? on November 28, 2010 at 1:35 am | permalink |
"???,"
I didn't care for dave-o's comment either, (Not at all, actually. Shame on you dave-o.) but I'm amused you ended a post, ostensibly about being kinder and more tolerant, by broadly disparaging both men and instapundit readers as "retards."
I've been known to use the r-word myself, and I'm sure I will again, (so I don't want to sound like a scold) but I hope the irony isn't lost on you.
Oh, and we with Asperger's are autistic, but have been spared the associated mental retardation. "There but for the grace of god," and all that…
Posted by James on November 28, 2010 at 5:46 pm | permalink |
I would like to try aspie + aspie sex with you sometime before we are dead, if the farmer does not mind. Or after you dump him.
Posted by An Aspie, Sagittarius too, same age on November 28, 2010 at 1:04 pm | permalink |
interesting and honest, great read.
Posted by kirsty on November 29, 2010 at 5:13 am | permalink |
Thanks for writing. After a half-dozen-plus years of treatment, more than 15 years ago, for what I like to think of as a psychologist's over-active imagination in the face of my Aspie-ness, it feels like nothing else to see your words in black & white with regards to such a delicate topic- particularly when it seems so amazingly impossible for our normal friends to put into words, despite their apparent success, what they think and feel on this subject.
Also, I respectfully disagree with the sentiment of some posters, here and elsewhere, that Aspies and non-Aspies face near-identical challenges with regards to learning life's rules. But, if you've never experienced the odd and sometimes frightening (and sometimes funny) metal dissonance that comes with trying to "Explain red to a blind person," (Excuse my figure of speech, please.) you may or may not be fully capable of appreciating how difficult and unique a position like Asperger's can put one into with regards to relations among peers.
Good luck,
Posted by AlexD on November 29, 2010 at 7:18 am | permalink |
Brave, brave post. And beautiful.
Posted by POAndrea on November 29, 2010 at 6:53 pm | permalink |
You have a special insight into humanity. I'm glad you exist. Thanks for this great article. –Mike
Posted by Mike on November 30, 2010 at 1:59 pm | permalink |
WOW i,m lost for words…. btw the one on 5 ways for happiness holds the answer
Posted by FRED on December 1, 2010 at 6:35 am | permalink |
There's the physical part of sex but for many people a lot of sex is in the head; how you think about it, how you feel, the notions that get you aroused (rather than the physical sensations that get you aroused). The 'games' tend to either be about getting one's own mind into the arousal space or communicating that you're on the edge of that space but haven't got all the way there but it's a possibility – or about setting up a power dynamic that can either be part of the way your mental arousal works or about other things entirely. I think many of us who spot the cues on some level respond to them without ever knowing what's actually behind them.
on the mucus thing, it might interest you to know why it goes elastic? it's because the hormones trigger the mucus to switch from being horizontally organised as a plug that keeps out infection to being vertically organised to form 'channels' for the sperm to travel through. I always thought that was nifty
Posted by SnarkMaiden on December 3, 2010 at 8:21 am | permalink |
Great mucus information. I had no idea. Thanks.
Penelope
Posted by Penelope Trunk on December 6, 2010 at 8:00 pm | permalink |
Fascinating post. I have been with girls like this before, but was unsure what was going on. Thanks for the information!!! Wow.
And if you enjoy reading or writing about sex, visit my blog. I enjoy talking about things like this, not only for fun, but for information too.
More people need to know about this condition.
Posted by Racer X on December 4, 2010 at 4:57 pm | permalink |
Wow, thank you for this.
I'm a newly diagnosed Aspie and hearing other people's descriptions is like a million little eureka moment for me, and this is really a huge gleaming light-bulb going off.
Number 6. was of particular interest, I get anxious so I just can't have sex sometimes, I have mini-meltdowns where I shut down and curl-up. Sometimes I just want to have sex, I don't like the foreplay part as it just doesn't work, but without foreplay sex doesn't work, so I get stuck in a rut. There's just far too much thought, too many things that have to be exact, too much anxiety about how to perform and what to do…so to have sex planets have to align, pigs have to fly, etc…
I had always assumed all this was due to abuse, some of it may well be, but that never did quite explain it, the possibility of it being an Aspie-thing is a relief.
Posted by Jane on December 15, 2010 at 10:07 pm | permalink |
This was a great post.
"Rules never stop coming at you, they just get infinitely more nuanced." Being raised Catholic definitely made sex and my version of the rules more complicated.
Posted by MissMetroDC on December 17, 2010 at 10:00 am | permalink |
I am only 15, female, and have been raised Catholic all my life too. I was also one of the thousands (millions?) of unlucky "souls" to have been victimized by the perverted actions of "men of faith" in the Church. I am also extremely shy and have no friends. But I'm NOT at all an "asspie" or a "geek." It's just highly unlikely that I'll ever be able to find a satisfying or compassionate relationship or even friendship with anyone because I am far too damaged to trust anyone ever again.
And anyone like a couple of guys here who say sex abuse is overblown by the media or an excuse for feminist propaganda is probably some idiot from Fox News who should stfu. Repugnicans like that are the ones who lack social empathy. Not people like me. If I could muster the courage (as I have all but given up on matters of "faith"), I would devote my time to helping people recover from situations like mine, or do something worthwhile to make the world a better place. I think too that sex itself is overvalued in our society as an absolutely essential component that everyone needs to have a fulfilling life. Physical pleasure for one ahead of mutual emotional satisfaction? Sounds like the old "close your eyes and think of England."
Although I have to say I always figured asspies either didn't have sex or found pleasure fiddling with their "joysticks." ^_^
Posted by Bashful Dodger on February 12, 2012 at 9:29 pm | permalink |
"masturbation is not visual."
Actually it can be quite a visual thing. I have watched many a lover masturbate and it is always very erotic.
"I thought we needed some guy there with us to run the show."
Yes, you could have used someone like Racer X. I could have orchestrated an intense sex session.
"I am one of the one percent of women who can have an orgasm just by thinking about having an orgasm"
Damn. Where are all the women like you in the world? Do you have an international club or something? I need to meet some women like that. I like a challenge, a woman who can keep up with me.
BTW, your blog is quite entertaining, as well as informative on business advice.
Posted by Racer X on December 17, 2010 at 6:08 pm | permalink |
I agree masturbation is visual.
It's must be more than 1% of women who can have an orgasm by thinking about it.
Posted by mylindaelliott on December 30, 2010 at 12:46 pm | permalink |
I thought you had to be good looking to pose professionally for nude pics.
Posted by Jackie DeLister on December 27, 2010 at 5:01 pm | permalink |
What a fucked comment. Everyone is perfect. You need to understand something about yourself you vain individual!!!
What is your definition of beauty??
Are you good looking or are you a looser?
Posted by Rasputin on November 12, 2011 at 2:05 am | permalink |
What a fucked comment. Everyone is perfect. You need to understand something about yourself you vain individual!!!
What is your definition of beauty??
Are you good looking or are you a looser?
Posted by Rasputin on November 12, 2011 at 2:05 am | permalink |
I must have missed this one. I'm reluctant to post seeing all the snarky comments; I'm really interested in the Aspies that commented, if they are real comments, that seem offended at the suggestions of what is normal for an Aspy is disfunction – I'm surprised that they don't relate to the large community of Aspies looking to relieve that dysfunction and that they don't know that many in the Aspy community would be incredibly relieved to know it is possible to be normal and desperate to know how the commentors accomplished it.
Posted by Mark on January 29, 2011 at 4:13 pm | permalink |
On topic – I'm a guy, Aspie, very interested in sex and used to think I must just be super open minded because I have no aversion to the thought of sex with anyone or anything, groups, anything, not that I've shared that with very many people, or actually acted on any of it, but I relate very much to Penelope's lack of sense of boundaries that other people seem to agree on.
I have no history of sexual abuse or alchoholism or anything like that, but I also share the disconnect when in a sexual situation, no matter how "normal" the situation. I have had a serious enough amount of sex with many partners, and I'm not necessarily unable to perform, but it has always been that way since I became sexually active, no matter who the partner, except people that I get to know very very well and have lots of sex with. I cannot associate it with anything traumatic or whatever, I have no explanation, except that it is similar to how I misconnect in the other situations and areas of life. Not necessarily "there," during sex, easily distracted, noticing lots of other things, lose interest easily, sometimes even feeling like a third party watching it all unfold, which doesn't necessarily make it unpleasant. Just that often the experience is more akin to exercise and with difficulty and confusion like running the FBI obstacle course.
Hard to explain, but I don't think it is a coincidence that I have been diagnosed Asperger, based on a number of other sterotypical symptoms of varying severity. I'm not an alchoholic, I've never been abused, and I am very interested in hearing more from Aspies that posted here offended at the suggestion that their diagnosis likens them to Penelope – can you offer some insight on how to be well adjusted or do you just not relate to the people with more severe symptoms?
Posted by Mark on January 29, 2011 at 4:42 pm | permalink |
a go to jail party
Posted by Caral on February 7, 2011 at 12:58 pm | permalink |
I want to lose my virginity to you.
Posted by Chris Lee on February 22, 2011 at 3:22 am | permalink |
I think I just read this post for the first time, or perhaps re-discovered it. Anyway, love it as always. You writing about sex is like sex itself: messy, interesting, arousing.
Posted by Lance on February 24, 2011 at 9:26 am | permalink |
I have aspbergers too. I like sex, but I lack the social skills and adequate status to attain any type of partner, so I kind of like reading about other people having it. Thanks for sharing.
Posted by John Rothchild on February 26, 2011 at 5:19 am | permalink |
Reading this was one of those rare moments where I found myself thinking, "I'm so grateful that this person shared so much."
Posted by B on March 10, 2011 at 10:40 am | permalink |
Well, you answered a question I've had for a few weeks, regarding something I just learned.
I have a 10-year-old daughter with Asperger's. I recently discovered the possibility that general questions, such as "How was your day?", are very difficult for her to understand in the way neurotypicals understand it.
Not only did your post confirm this, but expanded on exactly *how* complicated this question really is for an Aspie. My daughter thanks you for teaching her father something important.
Posted by Peter on March 11, 2011 at 10:24 pm | permalink |
hi if you ever feel the need give me a call
Posted by Aaron on March 22, 2011 at 9:52 pm | permalink |
Thank you for writing this. It's really given me some insight into my GF who has Asperger's. We have been together going on 7 years now, and she is still a virgin. Whenever I bring up anything sexual she just curls up in a ball. I guess I will try some of the things you did, hopefully that will help.
Posted by Gary on March 25, 2011 at 11:32 pm | permalink |
OK, wow..
I'm yet another Aspie (female) who's stumbled upon this post. There's a plethora of misinformation here in the comments, some of it quite offensive. Asperger's Syndrome is not a disease, nor is it caused by sexual abuse. We do not inherently lack empathy. While all Aspies share some basic traits, we we are also individuals with different strengths and weaknesses.
While Penelope has written a wonderfully honest, personal account here, I think it's important to say that her experiences are her own and do not necessarily speak for all Aspies or even "the Aspie experience". I know that my own experiences are vastly different, though I can relate to some of the sentiment. I tend to believe that, at the end of the day, the lessons are the same: Educate yourself and find someone with whom you can negotiate the type of relationship you want.
Posted by outoutout on March 28, 2011 at 9:03 am | permalink |
I agree! my son (Aspergers) is the most caring, empathetic child you could ever meet, but he doesn't understand boundaries. It will get him in trouble one day, so it kills me to have to tell him to "tone it down" when he wants to shower someone with affection!
I think that this tendency will serve him well in relationships with women as he wants to please and show his devotion in creative ways.
Posted by Anonymous on October 15, 2011 at 1:58 pm | permalink |
The only problem that I have w/this article is that it claims to speak for all aspies, and you don't. I have always been a very sexual person, and creatively so. In fact, I'm told that as a women, my drive is unusually strong. The only challenge was that I did not have my 1st orgasm until I was twenty. I was always so much in control of the experience, that it took me time to figure out how to focus on what my body really enjoyed to get there. Believe me, most men are thrilled when you tell them how. Vibrators can be a good start, too, to getting to know yourself.
Posted by Ultraviolet on April 3, 2011 at 3:05 pm | permalink |
That's brilliant. AS folks are so refreshing in their honesty. You are our teachers.
Posted by Jennifer Heitler on April 11, 2011 at 3:08 pm | permalink |
sorry but we are not 'your' teachers, we have a totally different psychology to NT's and experiences relevant to us are because of that difference. Think of it as the opposite of AS people 'pretending to be normal' – a common situational defence mechanism when you don't want to stand out, I find I get it wrong and doesn't work very well, lol. – Basically we're another species – aliens ha ha.
Posted by hen on January 7, 2012 at 12:16 pm | permalink |
I am a 45yr old male with aspergers sydrome who has never had a girlfriend and sex. I feel real discust with my myself and hate myself.I suffer from depression and see no hope for the future. It is to late for me now. All there is left is grannies. Women my age seem far to old. I would like to meet a dorky girl in her late twenties early thirties but this is an impossible dream.
Posted by Paul on April 14, 2011 at 3:00 pm | permalink |
Paul,
Good that you know your depressed. Knowing this, you should be getting help — now. Don't wait. Your attitude is typical of someone with depression: glass half full, all is doomed, etc. Asperger's certainly doesn't help, because, with its quirks, it can cause you grief. But depression is a completely separate issue, likely unrelated to Asperger's.
I don't consider 45 to be the realm of "grannies" — I've met some pretty hot, young-minded women in their 40's. Your attitude is a bigger obstacle to your dating/sex life than anything.
Get help — this is not me being a smart ass — I am 45 and have suffered from depression my entire life (yes, even as a child). I only learned to start dealing with it effectively a few years ago — and my social life is now way better than when I was a teenager. I know it's hard to see past the gloom when you're depressed. At least take that first step, and everything else will eventually fall into place.
My friend has a great line — "You're never too old to have a happy childhood."
Posted by Peter on April 14, 2011 at 11:45 pm | permalink |
Thank you for your reply. I can't change the fact that I like younger woman and consider late twenties and early thirties right for me. I have been through the NHS and seen psychologists because of trouble with work when I was working but it has'nt helped and in one case made me even worst. I have a sexual problem and have tried talking to my doctor but he looked shocked. I am only going to get worst.On the dating sites the woman my age see so old and mature and I can't force myself to like them.
Posted by Paul on April 15, 2011 at 8:02 am | permalink |
I have regular suicidal thoughts because the thought of never having a girlfriend is unbearable. It has been mentioned to doctors but all it is to them is amusing.They think I am expecting a prescription for a woman.
Posted by Paul on April 17, 2011 at 3:04 pm | permalink |
Wow, I think I'd never read something so honest and personal with such candor on such topics from someone so famous. I definitely see why this post is one of the most popular.
~ Z ~
Posted by Zac Sullivan on May 10, 2011 at 4:22 pm | permalink |
I am curious to find out what blog platform you are working with? I'm experiencing some minor security problems with my latest website and I'd like to find something more secure. Do you have any idea?
Posted by Teen Kasia on May 16, 2011 at 7:08 am | permalink |
I found this interesting.
Most people require the rituals and the payoff. There needs to be a game involved, not just the act.
Meanwhile as an Asperger's person you didn't care about the rituals, just the payoff. You didn't need to have a game involved, and actually preferred not to play the game.
So what is the condition of the people who are all rituals/games, but don't actually want the payoff? I knew someone like this, just loved talking about sex, creating sexual tension, flirting, that push-pull, the seduction process, fantasies and masturbation, but the actual act seemed secondary to her.
If Asperger's types are all payoff and no ritual, I wonder what the label is for people who are all ritual but no payoff?
Posted by T. AKA Ricky Raw on June 9, 2011 at 12:52 pm | permalink |
Some great discussion going on here. But I like the post. You have a refreshing honesty about your life…making your posts somewhat addictive.
Posted by Evan on July 15, 2011 at 1:42 pm | permalink |
I can't tell. Either you are trying to make Asperger's people feel bad, or you have been badly misinformed. Which, these days, any socially awkward/socially inept person has Asperger's Syndrome. I've read some wierd symptoms from people who "claim" to have this. This one takes the cake. There's the non-verbal cues, thing. Body language is very hard to read for us, yes, but when someone says "stick it in", you'd have to be retarded not to know what the concept is behind that.
Blonde? Probably. Dense? Maybe. Asperger's? Not likely.
Posted by Freakshow on July 26, 2011 at 11:25 am | permalink |
You are over-generalizing. Some Aspies are far more literal than others. Some Aspies are far more social than others. My daughter has Asperger's, but she's the one who runs to answer the door or phone, and is a much better "greeter" than I am, and I do not have Asperger's.
Not all Aspies have all possible Aspie symptoms, and for the symptoms they do have, these will occur in varying amounts in different people. In short, while it's very possible for one Aspie to easily understand the figurative meaning behind "stick it in", another may, instead, be more inclined to understand this in the strictest literal sense.
Posted by Peter on July 27, 2011 at 8:19 pm | permalink |
Delayed understanding of sexuality is very very common among people with Aspergers, especially women.
And, while we're talking about diagnosing and misdiagnosing, Aspergers looks very different in men than in women. Google it. There's a lot written on that topic.
Penelope
Posted by Anonymous on October 2, 2011 at 1:52 am | permalink |
i find this article intresting. i was confirmed with aspergers 3 years ago. it has been enlightening to say the least. all my rules work (most of the time) but in a relationship with a lady that sort of understands they break down. i still feel different and my desire to be alone is hard for her. as i write i am at my house and she is at hers (i,ve let her down again). i try to understand and so does she. when she tells me one thing i process another. thank you for the post. paul.
Posted by paul hickman on August 15, 2011 at 3:06 pm | permalink |
I have Asperger's Syndrome. Only have sex with someone who loves you. Only have sex with someone you love. Passion is not the same as someone being horny. Sex is shared passion. Sometimes one person gives more than the other person. Sex games means the people are bored with each other. Why does someone have to pretend to be someone else or act in a way that isn't real? Sex is about love and giving and it shouldn't be a big drawn out deal that takes hours. For a man, he needs sex to relax so he can get to sleep and go to work the next day refreshed. If you trust your partner, sex is easy. It's not about getting in the mood either. If you love your partner, you have sex with him unless you have the flu. Does a person make a big deal about making dinner? People have to eat. You just do it and make a good meal so your loved one is healthy. Sex doesn't have to be complicated. You shouldn't have to set a special time for it but you can have special times, just like you have special meals.
Posted by Emily on August 19, 2011 at 6:26 am | permalink |
I find this perspective interesting. I have Aspergers syndrome, and only got diagnosed when I was 13. People who are familiar with Aspergers never even guess that I have it, because I'm actually a very social person.
I also write in my spare time, about whatever happens to fascinate me that particular day – sometimes intimate scenes, as well.
When it comes to my own intimacy, however, I live up to the stereotype of people with Aspergers syndrome being mechanical. Its not that I'm uninformed, or inexperienced, but I have trouble feeling the same pleasure that my partner feels. I've all but given up on masturbation, and it doesn't seem fair that everyone else gets all the fun while I don't.
Posted by Fara on August 22, 2011 at 2:25 am | permalink |
Aspergers people can also be really empathic also though. I'm not trying to brag but I (undiagnosed AS) have had someone climax 8 times AND I apparently gave someone the greatest orgasm they've ever had. it helps that i'm a Puppy. I'm all about the partner. I want to make them their absolute happiest. if I haven't brought them to climax at least once before we start paying attention to me, I'm not satisfied. it also probably helps that though I switch (between dom & sub) and am Pansexual, I still prefer sub, so basically if they want to take charge I'd love for them to, but if they prefer me taking charge I know what they like because I like it too.
Posted by Shae on August 26, 2011 at 9:12 pm | permalink |
I'd like to add that I think another part of it is because I'm a Right Brain Aspie. the only way I'm good with numbers is when they make patterns or have symbology. I can't do math for the life of me. I still have most of the social cue problems that most other aspies have, which is funny, because whenever I'm looking at it subjectively (when I'm at an outside perspective, such as pictures of video) I can recognise social cues, emotions, flirtation, etc. perfectly, but Socially I'm EXTREMELY Awkward and clueless. basically I need a partner whose willing to just say stuff to me straight. even if that means saying "NO, Bad Shae" to me in public when I fuck up somehow. just as long as they give me a loving pet on the head when I obey.
Posted by Shae on August 26, 2011 at 9:20 pm | permalink |
I'd like to add that you sound like a self-concerned, over-compensating, blow-hard who spends their time self-diagnosing theirself whilst all-the-while soliciting virtual-internet-praise for their non-symptomatic behaviors. If anything, I would virtual-internet-diagnose you with "Major Moron Syndrome".
Posted by Vince Spinelli on October 1, 2011 at 3:03 am | permalink |
I'm glad somebody said it, it seems like every person with a high opinion of themselves who is too lazy to learn social skills suddenly has 'undiagnosed aspergers' these days without understanding just how difficult it is for those who actually do have it. They just use it as an excuse not to learn social skills.
Posted by Bobby on October 2, 2011 at 3:20 am | permalink |
I'd like to add that you sound like a self-concerned, over-compensating, blow-hard who spends their time self-diagnosing theirself whilst all-the-while soliciting virtual-internet-praise for their non-symptomatic behaviors. If anything, I would virtual-internet-diagnose you with "Major Moron Syndrome".
Posted by Vince Spinelli on October 1, 2011 at 3:03 am | permalink |
I'd like to add that you sound like a self-concerned, over-compensating, blow-hard who spends their time self-diagnosing theirself whilst all-the-while soliciting virtual-internet-praise for their non-symptomatic behaviors. If anything, I would virtual-internet-diagnose you with "Major Moron Syndrome".
Posted by Vince Spinelli on October 1, 2011 at 3:03 am | permalink |
I'd like to add that you sound like a self-concerned, over-compensating, blow-hard who spends their time self-diagnosing theirself whilst all-the-while soliciting virtual-internet-praise for their non-symptomatic behaviors. If anything, I would virtual-internet-diagnose you with "Major Moron Syndrome".
Posted by Vince Spinelli on October 1, 2011 at 3:03 am | permalink |
I cannot remember the last time I laughed so hard! Thank you for sharing, it's been very helpful.
Posted by Angie on September 7, 2011 at 3:25 am | permalink |
What you laughing at the fact that the person wrote a pile of crap prose about a fictitious aspie that can't have decent sex. When we all know you NTs can't keep up and end up falling asleep on the job. That all you do is talk about sex, but really when it comes down to it you can't deliver
Posted by Chemerbleeper on October 8, 2011 at 2:20 pm | permalink |
Dear Penelope, that was some read, you and the farmer, and losing your virginity …… hmmmm. thanks for the candid commentary. lot of xxxxoooo's in your futures
Posted by HtGillis on September 26, 2011 at 12:15 pm | permalink |
I'm a woman with Asperger's and this woman's a fraud. I'm not even sure she's really had sex. Rules in sex? LOL. Since when? This all sounds like fantasy derived from reading too many online articles about Asperger's and her own dysfunctional relationships. One of the great things about having autism and being sexually active is that sex is what you make of it. With a receptive, communicative and trusted partner, sex is a very intimate, rule-free experience. It's not that we with autism don't want to connect with others or can't. We just struggle with social rules. Social rules–not intimacy. Big dif. In an intimate environment were we feel safe and unstifled by those pesky social rules, we are very open and receptive individuals capable of great intimacy. I don't know what this woman's problem is–although she's certainly made a bd name for herself within the autism community with her flights of fancy–but it's not Asperger's. Takes one to know one, you know?
Posted by Cade DeBois on October 7, 2011 at 5:22 pm | permalink |
What a load of rubbish. I have brilliant sex with my Misses and I have Aspergers. You make out that all Aspies are stupid when it comes to sex and that we know very little about it. Well that depends on the Aspie. Maybe I am more fortunate than some but I have had a wild sex life although now I am happy to settle down with Annette who I adore and she adores me in all ways. In fact she can't leave me alone. I am not bragging but the sex is great. I don't go around like NTs bragging about our sex life. But I know that a lot of NTs would wish to have what I have. Granted things were difficult at the beginning and I have some heart breaking stories about how I was treated when trying to find that special someone. But that did not stop me keep trying harder and harder.
You see unlike some Aspies I am a fighter and will keep on fighting for what I want in life.
Posted by Chemerbleeper on October 8, 2011 at 2:16 pm | permalink |
I have had one relationship where the sex felt totally comfortable and natural, and I like to think that I do keep trying – I try to go on dates and at the moment I am working on lowering my standards because I don't know if that may be a problem. You're lucky to have your wife (I don't mean that in a bad way).
Posted by shreena on November 21, 2011 at 11:37 am | permalink |
Incidently the brain is the best sexual organ of all and we all know us Aspies have a superior brain to NTs so really we win hands down
Posted by Chemerbleeper on October 8, 2011 at 2:18 pm | permalink |
I think that Asperger's is a lot like ADD. A real condition that some people truly suffer from, but that a whole lot more people pretend to have as an excuse to avoid dealing with their own bullshit.
Also, if one goes into a career where they spend vast amounts of time and mental energy focusing on things that do not have a social component, their social skills are going to take a hit. Doesn't mean they are borderline autistic, It just means they need to get out more.
Most people are so easy to read that even when they try to conceal their emotions and intentions, they cannot. The few who really are good at concealment tend to be people you can't trust because they are usually up to no good. When it comes to social situations, there no "rules," only an understanding of what the other person is thinking and feeling. If someone truly cannot experience what others are feeling and perceive their state of mind, then I've no idea what could possibly help them. I only know that trying to come up with a set of rules, an algorithm for navigating social situations – won't help. People aren't deterministic.
Posted by Lee Reynolds on October 10, 2011 at 6:26 am | permalink |
Me either (uf…recovering breath).
Chem, so sad you actually can't get satisfaction, seems to me that whoever fall asleep did some job at least and enjoy it.
What?… what do you want the guy after enjoy himself his part of the sex? make a pancake? is his ENTIRELY …job (???) or obligation to make YOU have an orgasm???, aren't two sex partners there???…
…but you take too long to understand your part of the business; no, you don't have to rebuild Egypt pyramid, or some…weird witch poison with two thousand ingredients and old books, to still get a prince out of a frog…. IT'S A FROG godd#mmit!
It is a simple act that any animal (yep, that animal you call men, too) know, SO EASILY do it and enjoy every single time. Yep
Please, don't let me even start trolling here…
It is sad actually that we (men) get so easily to orgasm and women are so stressed about it, looping around some social…spaghetti in their head.
Really, I wish you can 'get YOUR job done' like us, 1,2,3.
Many married couples would keep married if this happen if you gals.
Ok ok, I teach you gals how, but, pay attention:
….just….
.. don't think about it!!!!,
because, there is nothing to think about it!!!.
…
Why you can't understand you are so beautiful just, naked! You know?
'Ohhhh…he is not following the rules of seduction…' ….don't…or "I'll make you cringe"
(Sight…) It is in your gene…
Posted by PepeLePew on October 25, 2011 at 7:11 pm | permalink |
I forget to smile. Not just with sex. I am still amazed at how relaxing a smile is.
Posted by David Bennett on October 29, 2011 at 5:27 pm | permalink |
I don't mean to insult you but I don't believe much of this, e.g., the business about how you get pregnant so quickly or can have an orgasm on self-command. At any rate, I have many Aspergers traits and for what it's worth I am very unlike this.
Posted by Ellen Moody on October 31, 2011 at 10:28 pm | permalink |
What the fuck am I reading?
Posted by La Volpe on November 9, 2011 at 3:22 am | permalink |
Fascinating post; thanks for sharing it. I'd like to challenge you on something though: Consider the possibility that you don't actually have Aspergers. And neither does anyone else. It's just a label our society applies to very intelligent people who haven't been taught good social or emotional mastery skills. If a significant proportion of your family "had Aspergers", then you had poor role models from whom you learned your social and emotional skills. I teach men how to be more confident, and these skills are a big part of it so I know they can be taught.
The anxiety you feel and the need for the Xanax is a clue that, like many people in Western society, you haven't yet learned the skill of emotional mastery. It's not your fault, and there's nothing wrong with you. Rather than looking at a set of arbitrary rules for social interactions, consider social skills as bundle of knowledge about relating to people that you just missed out on learning as a kid. When you learn to master social skills, your emotions and the skill of empathy, you'll find less need to label yourself as having Aspergers. Then who would you be?
Cheers,
Graham
Posted by Graham Stoney on November 12, 2011 at 9:18 pm | permalink |
I completely identify with all of this. I can come across as a pervert to people because a) I read/watch so much to do with sex and b) I don't know where the boundary is when you're talking to people about it. And then by contrast when it comes to the real act of having sex I don't know what to do…I mean I know on paper what to do, and I know all the weird positions and kinks and dirty talk, but *I* don't know what to *do*. And there's so much adventurous stuff I want to do, and I have this image of me being sexually confident, to the extent that I'm really jealous of promiscuous girls, pornstars, and prostitutes.
And then there's that stupid fucking dance you mentioned. How can I get from here to there with all that social bullshit in the way?!
There's so little out there about adult autistic women, let alone how they experience relationships (most of the things I read talk about how great it is that someone can hold down a job or speak two words to another people, and don't mention anything emotional. I mean, we might not act like it, but we do feel, intensely). So thank you so much for writing this.
Posted by shreena on November 21, 2011 at 11:33 am | permalink |
This is awesome.
Makes me feel so less awkward.
Posted by rkvb on November 27, 2011 at 10:12 pm | permalink |
Maybe it's just my personal tendencies, but I can't touch myself down there. Much less read about someone else doing it to check mucus without vomiting.
Posted by Lenny on January 14, 2012 at 11:34 am | permalink |
Penelope, this is an amazing and personal post, thank you for sharing. I've tried to research Aspergers online, but most of what I found says its just beginning to be researched.
I've been dating my boyfriend for three years now. My father met his mother at my mother's funeral. Within five minutes, my father told me my boyfriend's mother had mild Aspergers, and that my boyfriend probably had it too. My father was a psychology major in college, and went on to become a lawyer.
How do you find out if you have Aspergers? I've looked up basic cues, and I think my Dad may be right, but I'm not certain.
I appreciate any guidance you can offer.
Posted by Carrie on January 20, 2012 at 4:00 pm | permalink |
Classic BPD
Posted by Annie McManus on January 24, 2012 at 9:42 am | permalink |
This chick is hilarious. I stumbled on this from a link on bashing the four hour work week (book I'm reading). Can I get these "blog" things emailed to me when they come out?
Can one of you creepy followers email me and tell me how. Thanks Dan dpryor@ocnetworking.net.
Posted by Dan on February 3, 2012 at 12:00 pm | permalink |
Hi i have a partner who has aspergers i am expecting his baby how can i help him cope with the changes thats coming he seems to be going backwards and repeating himself and needing constant reasurrance I just dont know how to help him or cope with him now i have a 5yr old daughter from a previous relationship and i need to focus on her and this baby please anyone who has experience on this case could you help
Posted by lisa on February 12, 2012 at 4:48 am | permalink |
I first found out what sex was around the age of 11 by opening the encyclopedia to a random page. After that, I was passively curious for many years about what relationships and sex would be like, all the while observing how such affected other people's lives around me. At age 33 I made a decision to try to introduce some of this strange world into my life. I never expected that 99.9% of all women I tried to talk to would be playing some "game" that still makes no sense to me. No matter how I pleaded with them to refrain from engaging in any such games, the number who even had a clue that there could be any other way to behave I could count on the fingers of one hand. After two years of this, I decided I would give up any such pursuits but would not stop talking to anyone I was already talking to. I had already developed strong emotional ties to several women, all of whom considered me "friend material only" and most of those continue to this day. One of those "friend" ties eventually began to monopolize nearly all my attention and still does. I thereby achieved most of what I had ever hoped to achieve from such pursuits, and more, without ever having had sexual intercourse. By limiting myself to nothing more than friendship, I was able to disinvolve myself in the "games" required to meet people for sexual or relationship purposes. From where I sit, nothing on Earth could possibly be worth trying to deal with all that crap. I say: Those who have sex can keep it, and I'll keep never having it; to each their own. I don't need it. What I found instead is far better.
I embrace and respect the fact that some aspies are like me, while others are like Penelope, regardless of gender. My twenty-something "friend" has never had sexual intercourse either, though most people she went to high school with have several kids by now. I'm pushing 40 and I look still older, and out of all the women I talked to, only one past the age of 30 ever even gave me the time of day; the rest were younger. All had major emotional problems and appreciated my sympathetic ear. One whom I actually survived two dates with (more than with anyone else) I have since mentored through several successive relationships over a year and a half, despite never having engaged in such myself, and she appreciates my insight, especially since she's not aspie herself. She is now sure she has found "the one" and I am confident that she is right. She also tries, without much success, to reciprocate in mentoring me in my dealings with my "friend" mentioned above. My position in everyone's friend zone is well-earned indeed, despite my often being short or abrupt with people I care about.
Lastly, I want to speak out against the utter bullshit most of the previous commemters have been spewing, especially the neo-Bettelheimian vitriol about abuse. From what I have seen, maybe nine out of ten autistic women (and yes, autism is clinically indistinguishable from Asperger's, which is why the term "Asperger Syndrome" will officially pass into history in the USA next year) have experienced some form of sexual abuse in their past, but this is because the condition makes them prime targets, and certainly not vice-versa. Other previous commenters have bickered about whether their fellow commenters and/or Penelope are or are not really autistic. I say it's really none of their business. Whether the general public accepts it or not, some of us are different in ways most others can never fully understand. It is not a disease or disorder, but merely a deviation from the norm, which is what diversity is all about. I do not believe it's practical to teach everyone what autism is all about. I instead believe that if you have an autistic friend or relative you genuinely care about, then you already know enough, and if you don't, then there's no real point in your knowning anyway. All that's important is for you to have the capacity to respect others without regard to your perception of whether they respect you or not, since when dealing with autistic people, this perception is highly likely to be wrong.
Our culture teaches us to trust that perception anyway, while at the same time, most religions teach us to overcome it, some more effectively than others. A majority of autistic people are atheists who lack the capability of understanding any merit to theism. Most of the rest seem to take pride in their theism. I see this divergence as yet another example of the healthy diversity of the human race. All in all, there are no bad people, and there are no good people. There are only people. Generally, people suck, but our responsibility is ourselves not to suck, rather than to concern ourselves with the suckage of others. Can't we all just get along?
Posted by dan g on February 15, 2012 at 7:22 pm | permalink |