This past week was Spring Break and toward the end, somehow my ex and my nanny fell out of the picture, and I was doing a lot of taking care of the kids, which, I have said before, is not what I’m great at. I wish I were. I tried for four years to be a stay-at-home mom, only to discover that I am not meant to do that.
So, in a moment of innocent desperation, I wrote on Twitter: “No school today and the nanny's on vacation. A whole day with the kids gets so boring: all intergalactic battles and no intellectual banter.”
I almost didn’t post that Twitter because it’s so banal.
But, in just seconds, because that’s how Twitter works, there was a firestorm of men telling me that I’m a bad mom. Really. Yes.
Here’s one from David Dellifield:
“@penelopetrunk sorry your kids are a burden, send them to OH, we'll enjoy them for who they are”
I couldn’t believe it. It’s one thing to be a total asshole to me on, say, Yahoo Finance, where someone used to spend a good portion of each day making sure that the C word did not appear in the comments for either Suze Orman’s column or mine. (The best days were when the C word appeared in a way that linked us. Really, those were some creative commenters on Yahoo Finance.) The difference between Twitter and Yahoo is that Twitter is intimate, and real-time, and pointed directly at me, not at the editorial board of Yahoo.
Like many people who are total assholes online, David’s contact info was easy to find. I called him at work, because, big surprise, he is not a stay-at-home dad talking about how everyone should love parenting. He is a dad who is not home all day talking about how everyone should love being home all day with their kids.
There was no answer at his work. But I noted the number so I could ruin his life there if I ever felt like he needed to be taught a lesson.
Then I called David Dellifield’s house. I thought maybe his wife would answer and I could ask her if she knows that her husband is emailing other women to encourage them to send more kids to his wife to take care of. All day.
There was no answer. Maybe by then he had alerted his wife that he is being pursued by a psycho who maybe will kill her kids or maybe will kill him. Maybe they will never answer their phone again.
So I wrote to David – a “direct message” in Twitter terminology: “I’m surprised by what you wrote. Are you intentionally being mean to me in a public forum?”
He wrote back: “no, but it seemed you were complaining about your children on an open forum, kids have faults, lets love for who they are”
So here’s the problem: Parents need to be able to say that parenting is not fun. The day-in and day-out of parenting is very, very difficult. This is not even news. There is a reason for the reams of research showing that having kids does not make people happier.
Daniel Gilbert, psychologist at Harvard, writes in Time magazine that we trick ourselves into thinking kids make us happy.
Nattavudh Powdthavee, an economist at the University of York, published research in The Psychologist, that concludes, "Social scientists have found almost zero association between having children and happiness."
Scott Stanley, a psychologist at University of Denver, reveals research that shows that marriages are much happier before the couple has children.
So first of all, anyone who says that parenting makes them happy is probably lying. Just statistically speaking. But also, we know the people who are well positioned to like parenting. There are sixteen personality types, and only a handful are perfectly tuned for staying home with kids.
People can have competing feelings. For example, I love my job but I hate getting up and going to work every day. Or, I love this blog but I often have to force myself to sit down and write a post.
Competing feelings happen to healthy people everywhere. St. Augustine called this dualism; mommy bloggers call it reality.
It’s a big deal that women are writing publicly, in real time, about how difficult it is to stay home with kids. Look, I get emails every day from women who left the workforce for kids and feel lost. Here’s the blog of a woman who wrote to me two days ago: The Reluctantly Frustrated Stay-at-Home Mom.
These women feel lost because you can love your kids and still be bored. Kids are not nonstop fun. Talking with young children is stultifying. Yes, they are funny. But in general, you have to pay attention to them every second, even though they are not really doing something every second.
And as soon as your mind wanders too far, something bad happens. For example, I took the kids on a hike yesterday, taking a coat for myself but not for them. Because I checked out. Because I wanted to think about things that are more interesting than coats. This is normal behavior. I mean, intellectuals need intellectual stimulation, and that’s not something kids give.
This does not mean I don’t love my kids. Only an asshole would suggest that because I don’t want to stay home with them all day, I must not love them.
And all you people who say you’d love to stay home all day with your kids if you could, you are completely full of shit.
I know because I was living at the poverty line in NYC while I stayed home with my kids. That’s how important it was to me to stay home. I wanted to be with them for every moment, be a great mom, all that. So I did it no matter what – no financial situation could have stopped me.
And if you really wanted to be home with your kids all day, you’d do it. David: That means you, too. But, newsflash: going to work is 10,000 times easier than staying with kids all day. Yes, I know, staying with kids is more important. I agree. So is saving children from starvation in Malawi. But we each do what we can. And the best of us are honest about it.
For all you guys who Twittered back to me that I’m a bad mom and that I should love being home with my kids, here’s a link for you: CEOs who are on Twitter. Because let me tell you something: None of these people needs to earn the money they are earning. They have enough money. They can stay home with their kids. But instead, they are at work.
David, can you publicly ask each of these guys if they want to send their kids to your wife in Ohio? Because each of these guys is choosing to go to work instead of stay home with their kids. Do you know why? BECAUSE THE CEOs THINK KIDS ARE BORING. This is not news. The top 10% of the tax bracket system does not need to leave their families to go to work every day. But they do. Why is that?
Here’s another idea, David. How about approaching all those guys with Blackberries at soccer games? Let me ask you something. Do those guys check their email when they’re getting a blow job? Of course not. Do you know why? Because it’s INTERESTING. They are checking their blackberries during soccer because soccer is boring. The kids can’t figure out where the goal is. The kids (and their parents) lose interest. They want snacks more than they want to learn soccer. They are cute, yes. But even cute gets boring.
Here’s another Twitter from David Dellifield: “been on twitter several months, still trying to figure out the conversation part of it”
@DavidDellifield Maybe you don’t understand the conversation because you have so little self-knowledge to add to the party.


This is my favorite post from you ever. My favorite line: "And if you really wanted to be home with your kids all day, you’d do it." I never stayed home 100%. I did work part for 5 years. And I telecommute now, which is a very flexible situation. However, a couple of my friends really wanted to stay home, they did it, it was financially tight and they put their careers on hold for a while, but they just made it work.
I also read this post this morning, not too long after I was awaken to the theme music from Sponge Bob Square Pants. My 4-year-old daughter decided to get up early, wandered into the spare bedroom, and turned on Sponge Bob as loud as it would go. I have had a head cold since Wednesday. I was on the road last week. I cooked Easter dinner for 14 yesterday. So when this happened, "appreciate" is not the word I would use to describe how I was feeling about my daughter. But I'm sure some finger pointers could put that back on me, too: I'm a bad mom because my kid knows how to turn on the television.
If I'm going to do some confessing, here are some other horrible things I have done as a mom:
1. Missed the preschool field trip to the plantarium, because I had to work.
2. Not stayed to watch soccer practice because I was bored out of my scull.
3. Tricked my kids into making "banks" out of old Crystal Light containers and foam stickers grandma gave them so that I could read my book.
4. Let my kids go to bed one night without brushing their teeth because I just couldn't harp one second longer.
5. Let my kids go swimming at the pool while camping so I would not have to give them baths in the tiny camper bathtub. (It washed away most of the dirt between their toes, and I'm pretty sure the chlorine disinfected them.)
Therefore, if you need to complain about being a mom, complain to me. I feel your pain, sister!
Posted by GenerationXpert on 04/13/2009 at 06:56am | permalink | Reply to this comment
A lack of toe cheese is the sure sign of a caring mom!
Posted by Alan Wilensky on 04/13/2009 at 07:16am | permalink | Reply to this comment
I don't think that any of that sounds at all horrible. My mother has "confessed" that, to keep my 5 yr. old brother out of the way at the grocery store, she used to sit him in a grocery cart, tie his shoelaces together and park him in front of the lobsters (it was the '60s, when suburban grocery stores still had live lobster tanks — which maybe they still do).
I don't think she felt that bad about it.
Posted by Jill on 04/15/2009 at 02:06pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Geezus Friggin Christ.
I've been a career woman, an entrepreneur, a stay at home Mom, and more, but…I can identify with every point except for #2… which is exactly the point: I enjoy watching "stupid" soccer practices because my kid ENJOYS them and it makes her HAPPY and PROUD… and seriously, if there is something better than that then… well, shit. I've told my sister she shouldn't have kids because she won't be able to comprehend that when you CHOSE to give birth you are dedicating yourself to being your CHILD'S cheering section, you do not give birth to your OWN cheering section.
How is this so incomprehensible???
I was the oldest of 4. Got pregnant at 18. Had my next kid 10 1/2 years later. Friggin love every minute of it. I can't wait to be free of the obligations for the first time (in my adult life), but I cherish it now because I CAN realize and appreciate that this is a GIFT… a unique time in my life that I won't have an opportunity to "do again" (technically – had that opportunity!) an experience with "people" (uh, my KIDS!) that cannot be redone… and, oh yeah, the fact that they are cool as hell, will probably be the people later in life who are my best friends, and I'd rather have them change my diapers and hug me when I'm 95 than some crappy convalescent home worker.
Oh. Sorry to shock anyone who can't see that far…
I think if we can all just get over OURSELVES we might be able to appreciate this life we are gifted with and find happiness.
Posted by Rebecca on 10/30/2009 at 01:34am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Whoa! David Dellifield just got hoofed.
I agree: it was a pretty ill-considered comment to make — and would have annoyed the hell out of me, had it been directed *my* way.
Is the response, though, perhaps a little disproportionate? Dellifield wrote something very stupid. On the internet. Christ, if I got called out in this way every time I did that, I'd be a psychological wreck.
Penelope, you've used his dumbass sarcasm to kick off into a very interesting, provocative, uncomfortable (for some) topic. But I'm not sure the wholesale nuking of Dellifield was quite justified …
Posted by Tom Parnell on 04/13/2009 at 06:57am | permalink | Reply to this comment
You will be happy to know that I thought about this issue, and in a last-minute act of amnesty, I deleted his phone number from the post.
-Penelope
Posted by Penelope Trunk on 04/13/2009 at 07:09am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Haha. It's ol' Dave's lucky day …
And I guess it's fair enough that it was on Twitter that he made his witless comment, and on Twitter that he receives his public naming-and-shaming.
Posted by Tom Parnell on 2009-04-13 07:16:49 | (Comments wont nest below this level)
Jesus, Penelope. You had to THINK about that?
I don't know. I just don't know what to make of you sometimes. There was that whole "blaming your kids" stuff earlier, and then that woman you criticized for being fat (even though you did apologize very nicely for that, it really offended me and a whole lot of others), and the whole divorce saga …
I don't mean this to sound so simplistic but sometimes it honestly comes down to this: I generally don't like, subscribe to, read, or support people who aren't nice.
You got one mildly snarky comment. And it wasn't even that snarky. It was nothing. It was an anthill. And you rolled out the nukes. You "hate" him? You had to think about whether to publish his phone number on your blog? You have to humiliate him publicly? Really, Penelope?
I used to gape at the horrible, horrid comments you used to get on the Yahoo! column. I couldn't understand them.
I'm actually starting to think They (the big, bad haters) had a point. You don't know how uncomfortable that is for me. I really want to love this blog, and you (in that platonic "oh my God she's so awesome" kind of way).
By the way, I don't agree with his statement to you, at least not in the context of your original tweet. But Christ, this is just immature, petty, and mean. Vicious, even. You could have ignored him. Even better: You could have explored the issue maturely. It's an issue that deserves a solid discussion, and you shortchanged it by couching it as an attempt at shaming someone you disagreed with. Yeah, he did the same to you initially. His was a mosquito bite. Yours, the equivalent of a full-on gator feeding frenzy.
Badly done.
Posted by Sherrie Sisk on 2009-04-15 09:16:22 | (Comments wont nest below this level)
wow, how decent of you.
Posted by angela on 2009-06-17 19:50:39 | (Comments wont nest below this level)
i read that same tweet and didn't think anything like what dd wrote (i did key off a different part of it [intellectual banter], but thought that i didn't know you well enough to make the nudge-nudge-wink-wink comment that came into my mind). i've run into people that make comments like that (and am related to some) and they're pretty much all self-righteous assholes. i think he deserved what he got, even if the phone number were left in (why leave it off ? it's not like google doesn't exist).
Posted by jcg on 04/13/2009 at 01:23pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Yeaaaaahhhaaaaaa!
One of the smartest and best moms I ever knew once confessed, "I love the act of conceiving, I love the pregnancy even, but these kids are driving me nuts!"
Really, PT, when we overshare on the twit, we get get boinked. You keep it real, gal.
Posted by Alan Wilensky on 04/13/2009 at 07:10am | permalink | Reply to this comment
oh, yeah, I forgot:
stultifying; triple word scorer.
Posted by Alan Wilensky on 04/13/2009 at 07:13am | permalink | Reply to this comment
It seems like people who would eventually find their way to blog like this would typically be adults who are interested in continuously improving throughout their life. It will always amaze me how these people still throw insults and judgments freely, and relish in the opportunity to feed off the emotions publicly. Seems like that's step one of the process…albeit a very difficult one, everyone knows that. But I just cringe when I see these people pretending to become better people, only to torpedo someone whenever they get an open shot.
Posted by Dan Brown on 04/13/2009 at 07:14am | permalink | Reply to this comment
People will run there mouth about anything, instead of looking at ourselves and doing some self-analysis and self-improvement. Be yourself, it is all good. =o)
Posted by Orlando on 04/15/2009 at 03:07pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
You've hit it with "loving my work, but hating to get to the office." I stayed home with my kids for 7 years and would say I loved it, overall. I'd also do it very differently than I did if I got a do-over. Staying home with the kids doesn't resign one to no adult human contact ever, or mean that you can't have your own interests, or even that your kids might drive you so batty you flee back to the workforce.
But see, David would tell you where you're at fault, Penelope, is you've temporarily forgotten that it's all about David and the others who comment on blogs or in response to tweets with sanctimony and totally out of context reactions. What you say is never about you, for God's sake, because then they're not the center of attention! My ex interacted similarly. It's sad, really.
These types are desperately disconnected. They could do with some meaningful interaction, if only to reinforce their genetic similarities with humans. Yet, they've got some compulsion to open their half of the dialogue with a not-so-passive/aggressive gambit designed to prop their insecure selves onto a self-made superiority pedestal. I'll bet David is short, too.
Posted by Betsy on 04/13/2009 at 07:16am | permalink | Reply to this comment
youre a nutjob. its pretty simple. as a parent, my children do make me happy. and this goes with the large majority of parents out there.
Posted by Pat on 04/14/2009 at 11:46pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Way to catch the point of this entire article Pat.
Posted by Heather on 2009-04-21 09:41:10 | (Comments wont nest below this level)
Huh. Then I guess the peer reviewed studies that show children correlate negatively with happiness were also done by nutjobs, covered only nutjobs and were reviewed by nutjobs as well.
Posted by Rob on 04/20/2009 at 09:19am | permalink | Reply to this comment
The question is, what would he do with your kids in Ohio? I assume even if he loved them he wouldn't personally take charge of entertaining them, so how is that better?
I don't have kids so it should be easy for me to not judge any parents — but I still do sometimes. But I'm willing to take y'all's word for it. David Dellifield's head would explode if he read Dooce or any other blog that deals with parenting and admits that, yes, sometimes it is not the best thing ever.
Posted by Nelle on 04/13/2009 at 07:16am | permalink | Reply to this comment
There's a lot of truth in what you say. I didn't think I could have kids until I read Operating Instructions by Anne Lamott. She fully describes the lovely peaceful feelings of nursing a baby. Followed by the feeling that you would do almost anything to get 8 hours of sleep in a row and you really, really wish the baby came with an "off" switch. This helped me a lot because I realized I didn't have to love every single minute of being a parent and it did not make me a monster.
As for staying home with kids, you're right. We have made financial and career sacrifices so that my husband could be a stay-at-home-dad. He coped by having a supportive group of other stay-at-home-parents who got together for play group and general sanity maintenance.
Posted by Laura on 04/13/2009 at 07:25am | permalink | Reply to this comment
The kind of post that makes me want to get up from my chair and punch the air with joy.
Seriously, I wish his wife had answered your phone call.
Children are not angels, they are small human beings who do not know anything. Life is difficult around them, unless you are not responsible for their every activity.
(I wish I could tell that to working men with housewives and who live with their parents in joint families in India. All they see their child is as a playmate post work.)
Posted by Dips on 04/13/2009 at 07:26am | permalink | Reply to this comment
It's a subtle, extremely pernicious, form of hypocrisy. Women often agonize over putting their children in daycare, whether they should quit their job or get a part-time job because they "should" spend more time with their children.
For the most part, men do not do this.
I am glad that you called out David, not because I think people should cyberwhack him, but because his attitude is far from uncommon and no one calls out this behavior for what it is. We need discussion on this and, hopefully, a shift in dialogue.
Posted by Hayden Tompkins on 04/13/2009 at 07:27am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Ugh! This post is so close to home… something I struggle with ALL THE TIME. Being a mom is a full time guilt trip.
I am a work-at-home-mom and let me tell you what I think on a daily basis, "If I worked in an office, life would be so much easier" I work when my kids nap and go to bed for the night. I usually go to sleep anywhere between 2-3 a.m. and get up with my youngest by 6:30 a.m. David Dellifield, can you say that? Do you also run your kids everywhere, make sure they have breakfast/lunch/dinner, make sure they aren't stuck in front of the TV all day when you need to finish a quick email that turns into a few emails?
I am already dreading this summer when they are out of school and they will be home all day. I guess I just won't sleep. If I worked outside of the home, like David I presume, I would be able to get a solid, consistent 8-9 hours of work in, be home to HAPPILY make dinner for my family (I say happily because I still do it every night, but I'm not always happy about it), maybe read a book, or do something else for myself, like paint my nails or something.
Some people have no concept of what a stay-at-home mom faces. Most times I feel blessed that I get to stay home with them and do a job I love, but other times it is REALLY HARD.
Bottom line, NO ONE gets to judge what a woman decides to do, especially men. They aren't faced with the choices women have to make. Home or Work? Kids or Career?
I keep telling my husband, in my next life, I'm coming back as a man. ;)
Posted by Erin on 04/13/2009 at 07:29am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Simple solution for women like you…if you don't want kids, don't have them. Whatever made you think it would be easy?
You remind me of the Paris Hiltons who want the chihuahua until she realizes it will actually shit in her purse.
Posted by Carlotta on 02/05/2010 at 12:35am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Awesome one Penelope, I hardly ever comment on your posts (lurker, yes I know) but I just had to this time. That's what I love about your blog, you aren't afraid to hate a little bit, it's fun, Darth Vader was right about the dark side, it's great.
Latest tweet from David:
"just arrived home, glad to be here"
Sounds like someone is trying to make a point. Mmm… web-self-denial smells so sweet. I wonder if David would be so glad if he had to be there… every.hour.of.every.day.evar.
Posted by Alex on 04/13/2009 at 07:35am | permalink | Reply to this comment
I stayed home with my kids for 10 years and loved it and my husband was jealous. Then I taught and he worked from home. Now that the kids are teenagers and we both work from home, we have days where we can hardly stand them. Of course, the soccer games are more exciting when they're 14, but their mouths really need an off switch.
Posted by Cassandra Turner on 04/13/2009 at 07:35am | permalink | Reply to this comment
This post was epic. Thanks for taking a stand on this issue.
Posted by Coop on 04/13/2009 at 07:46am | permalink | Reply to this comment
A friend of mine (male) did "Just do it".
He was cut out for staying home with the kids, she couldn't stand it. So she went to work, he stayed home with the kids. And he loved it. But they both agreed on it together and both understood their other half.
Now he gets mornings off because they're in kindergarten. And spends it doing part-time work. A great friend to have as a role model.
Posted by Peter on 04/13/2009 at 07:47am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Children are barbarians, albeit innocent ones, that must be taught civilized behavior. What an important, difficult job.
There's no shame in pointing out that that is not an enjoyable job.
Posted by Anna on 04/13/2009 at 07:51am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Im so glad Anna said this because if a guy did it would be seen as sexist or just another "oh men are so ignorant" moment.
I agree that David didn't have to really judge or voice his opinion on your parenting but you put it out there – in the public realm and open for argument. He had every right to do what he did even if you don't agree with his views. If you're going to get personal with every criticism then you should think twice about what you put out there. It's extremely immature and dramatic to go out of your way to potentially harm his marriage and his professional career since you called him at both home and work. Those two places aren't public, Twitter is. And please don't take the 70+ comments here that support your actions as a sign that you just spoke some universal truth about the sentiments of all parents. Go preach to people who don't know you and see what they're reaction is.
You're extremely smart for putting David Dellifield and his hometown in your H1 and Title tag essentially ruining his future "online presence" too. I'm sure you knew exactly what you were doing and gloating about it as you read this but it's despicable. When someone searches his name this will rank at the very top. Why, because some vindictive snot couldn't take one point of criticism on her TWITTER ACCOUNT!
Grow up.
Posted by Rikin on 04/13/2009 at 10:57am | permalink | Reply to this comment
@Rifkin
I totally agree. P makes a point of claiming that women use power differently than men. This post reveals how she uses her power to villify the (perhaps unthinking) author of a sarcastic tweet with an attack orders of magnitude beyond what was called for. You point out so well what others may not realize, that DD's online life will now forever be marred by this castigatory outburst.
I love it when P shares the reality of her life, but it greatly disappoints me that she allowed a fit of pique brought on by the frustrations of her day with the kids to mushroom into this very personal vendetta. This isn't a new use of power. It is a very old and malevolent one that usually arose from men who were insecure about the power they wielded.
Posted by Maus on 2009-04-14 14:59:53 | (Comments wont nest below this level)
Wow, you were going to post his phone number? You called the guy at home because you thought he was being mean to you?? On the internet??
Your blog, at least partly, is built around sharing personal experiences. With twitter you're opening yourself up even more. But those are both choices you've made, nobody barged into your life and started berating you for being a bad parent. Obviously you're sensitive about your parenting skills. You don't estalk when people say you shouldn't be dating a 25 year old.
Everyone has bad days, so maybe this was one for you, but reacting so strongly to this guy just seems childish. Using your blog as a platform to attack him, almost mentioning his phone number, is crossing a line.
I would expect this from a new blogger, someone that didn't understand that blogging is opening your life up to constant criticism, but I would think you'd have a thicker shell by now. Again, your reaction is probably due to you being sensitive about your parenting.
Everyone is a bad parent sometimes. This guy doesn't have to twitter about it, but you also don't have to blog about it, link to articles about it, make broad generalized statements about it, and estalk this guy and make assumptions about his parenting skills based on the fact that he isn't answering his phone. Nobody was the bigger person here.
Posted by James on 04/13/2009 at 07:54am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Ditto.
Posted by Marcia on 04/15/2009 at 09:30pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
If you've read this blog any time at all, you realize this woman has issues. She loves spreading her crap all over the internet and then actiong hurt when people call her on it.
Posted by Cody on 04/16/2009 at 01:54pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
"But I'm not sure the wholesale nuking of Dellifield was quite justified …" Sorry, Tom. You can't play both ends against the middle. In this new world of communication, if you're going to say something trite, condescending and clueless to a woman who lives her life online, you're going to get called out. As a woman who is there and doing that — working while raising a son, fortunately with a husband who does assume a good share of the responsibility — I can tell you I thought she let him off the hook.
Believe me, if this character had said that to me about my kid after a tough day, I would have said, "Send me your address!" Many days, I would love to put a sign on him saying "Free to a good home" and put him out on the curb. Does that make me a bad mom? No … it would be worse if I didn't acknowledge that every day is not a romp through the daisies, especially with a sullen adolescent in tow.
Posted by Janet Roberts on 04/13/2009 at 07:56am | permalink | Reply to this comment
In what way was I 'playing both ends against the middle', Janet? I said I agreed that David's tweet was ill-conceived and idiotic. But I said that — in my opinion — it is something of an overreaction to call him out (specifically, by name) in a blog with many thousands of readers, and to declare that you hate him.
I also said that Penelope had used this stimulus well in fueling an interesting and useful blog post about issues that I absolutely think should be being discussed. I certainly said *nowhere* that I agreed with any *shred* of what David wrote to Penelope. I thought he was sarcastic and small-minded.
But my point was: people say sarcastic and small-minded things all the time. Especially online. Sometimes, they don't think too much before they do. Hopefully, David won't henceforth fall quite so easily into *that* trap, at least.
But it's not as though he's a major-league blogger who's published a lengthy and bilious attack upon Penelope. He just wrote a sarky, rather wimpy little tweet.
… And then found the guns of a blogosphere celebrity trained upon him.
Fair enough. I don't dispute Penelope's right to use her blog exactly as she pleases. I merely (please understand) found it — to my own taste — excessive. Funny, and quite satisfying to read — but, on reflection, a bit of a misuse of power.
Now, please tell me: am I playing both ends against the middle? If so, how?
Posted by Tom Parnell on 04/13/2009 at 08:48am | permalink | Reply to this comment
I'm a dad of a 13 month old I love more than I ever expected. My wife is a work-at-home-mom. We have a nanny. And we both agree that every line in this post is true.
Posted by Alex @ Happiness in this World on 04/13/2009 at 08:05am | permalink | Reply to this comment
wow! i'm so glad to read that someone else thinks the same way that i do. i love my job. in fact, i thrive doing what i do. i actually think it makes me a better person! if i were to quit work to stay at home with a child, i think i may not only go insane, but lose a sense of who i am.
at thanksgiving, i decided to help my sister out with her 9 month old while she was at work. i took care of the baby that day. what an eye-opening experience. let's just say that there are no babies in my future any time soon.
it does take a special individual to want to stay at home with the kids. i have a male friend that would love to & is actually considering doing so as soon as finances allow. if he weren't married, i'd definitely send him your way!
Posted by tiffany on 04/13/2009 at 08:08am | permalink | Reply to this comment
I was the nanny that stayed home with someone else's kids all day, and let me just amen most of this stuff in the post. If it were not for the fact that I got paid amazingly well to watch those kids five days a week for 12 hours a day, and could sit around during the "boring" times to calculate how much money I am saving for law school…I would go insane. In fact, half the stay at home moms that I run into at the park seem to have gone insane. What I like about this post is that you make a point of stating that women need to be able to talk about this issue and they need to be able to talk about not liking being with the kids all day. My boss used to tell me that I was lucky I could complain about the kids without repercussion. I find that sad because its normal to get annoyed with kids and to get frustrated, after all they are on a whole different level from adults. I think it would be good for a lot of women if they had an outlet for expressing those negative emotions so that they can move past it and concentrate on the positive.
Posted by Liz Hatchett on 04/13/2009 at 08:29am | permalink | Reply to this comment
I agree with David.
Sure, parenting isn't always fun or filled with rainbows, I agree with that for the most part. But to say that you weren't happy being at home with your kids? Honestly, that's messed up. I wish I could have my children at my side at all times. I love them so much and I love watching them do things! I mean, they don't even have to talk to me, I love watching them play with their toys and listening to them converse with each other and showing their wild imaginations.
Being a mother isn't for everyone, I agree, and I also think maybe you should have never produced children. *shrugs*
Hope your kids don't end up finding this online one day only to find their mommy dearest didn't really like them that much.
Posted by meme on 04/13/2009 at 08:33am | permalink | Reply to this comment
I think you missed the biggest point of this post:
That you CAN be by your kids all the time, if you really want to.
If you want to keep making excuses about how, oh, you'd really LOVE to be with them, but can't for whatever reason, you are being untruthful with yourself, and losing whatever sort of credibility you might have had to support your arguments.
People do what the really want to do. Unless they're in prison.
Posted by Jane on 04/13/2009 at 09:07am | permalink | Reply to this comment
"*shrugs*" just discredited your entire comment. how about you save supercute little idiocies like that for when you're writing love notes to your children in sparkly pens instead of contributing to a serious conversation with an insult. winky face.
Posted by Kelli on 10/29/2009 at 03:51pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I have to agree 100% with Tom Parnell. Dave's post may have been too insulting or too pointed, or simply too personal, but your reactive post is highly emotional with a few great points. It's too bad your tone actually overshadows and reduces the effectiveness of these points. Overall, it's exponentially abrasive, and this is not what I expect from you.
Posted by Bill on 04/13/2009 at 08:34am | permalink | Reply to this comment
What a great post! Being honest is one of the best paths to happiness; it's great that you can be real about yourself and life! Good luck with everything!
Posted by Diana on 04/13/2009 at 08:37am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Um. Ouch. (Excellent post…)
Posted by Kathy Davies on 04/13/2009 at 08:38am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Penelope, this post made my day. Actually, probably my year.
I love my children very very much. But, because child-brains do not work the same as adult-brains, they are not particularly stimulating companions. Does that mean I do not "love them for who they are?" Absolutely not. Does it mean after the fifth telling of the knock-knock joke on the walk to the part, I'm wishing I'd thought to bring a hip flask? You betcha.
David Dellifield is a sanctimonious hypocrite. I'd love to hear his "bona fides" regarding his experience with how FASCINATING it is to stay home with small children, all day, every day.
Posted by Sara on 04/13/2009 at 08:40am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Someone who assumes that every moment of parenting is sheer bliss is completely fooling themselves. It's like any other thing in your day-to-day experience. If you love your job or your significant other, does that mean that there isn't times that they can drive you mad? Children are no different.
Posted by Tyrone on 04/13/2009 at 08:47am | permalink | Reply to this comment
The out of whack response to the twitter message kinda makes me suspect that David Dellifield pushed the right button. Obviously you agree with him.
But posting his phone number?? What's next, slash his tires?
All parents know that parenting is very hard. You don't have to prove it to anyone.
Being a full time worker, with a nanny, and still complaining about having to spend time with the kids – no wonder some people commented.
Posted by ioana on 04/13/2009 at 08:58am | permalink | Reply to this comment
I'm a 45 year old woman who has not met one woman who stayed home when my son was young ( he is now 19) that was happy. In fact most of them have issues about self worth and drink too much! Woman need a purpose and are not always it. Woman lie about how unhappy they are being home.
Let's get honest…..
Posted by Stacey on 04/13/2009 at 08:58am | permalink | Reply to this comment
I dunno, Stacey, it sounds to me like your friends have other issues.
I've been at home with my kids for 17 years, and wouldn't change anything except the amount of sleep I get. I sure could use some more, if only so I'm not dozing at my computer while trying to finish up my work. (I work from home, full time.)
No, it's not all sunshine and roses and sparkly unicorns falling out of my ass all day. Parenting is sometimes gross and frustrating and exhausting. And it's OK to say that, right out loud, where the whole world can hear.
But it's NOT OK to blame your kids for your other unhappinesses. Grown ups take responsibility for themselves – or so we're supposed to be teaching our children.
Posted by Missy on 04/14/2009 at 06:43pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
My SIL used to say this all the time, that she would love to stay home, and that I was so "lucky" to be able to. Our household income was about half theirs at the time, or, equal to what her husband alone made, and we had more kids, so how was it "lucky"?
Staying home is a choice, and anyone can do it if they want to. Sometimes I wonder why I do, because you are ABSOLUTELY right that kids are not interesting 100% of the time. I don't think many jobs are either, though, so I keep this in mind. In fact, whenever I feel too stultified, I watch The Office and feel much better.
Maybe I am narcotizing myself because I feel trapped (by religious beliefs, guilt, and yes, love and concern) in my stay-at-home path. After all, I am an ENTJ, and apparently that's not the best personality type for this job.
Posted by Jane on 04/13/2009 at 08:59am | permalink | Reply to this comment
The tweet directed to you immediately after your tweet was harsh and unthoughtful. WTF is what came to mind after reading his tweet – as in WTF does he know about you and your kids. He's quick to judge you based on little knowledge. David admits he doesn't understand the conversation part of Twitter after several months. I wonder why he continues to try and figure it out. Is it because it's the 'hot' social media app? If he wants to learn how to use social media maybe he needs to find a different app that allows him to use more words so that he can do a better job of articulating his thoughts. A word of advice to David – think before you send (publish) your thoughts and try to perceive how your words may be interpreted by your audience.
Posted by Mark W. on 04/13/2009 at 08:59am | permalink | Reply to this comment
I wanted to punch the air in joy not only after reading the post but in reading how many others echoed your sentiments, Penelope. Also my favorite post of yours, ever.
My sister was a stay-at-home mom with 4 children. She worked one summer in her husband's office and called me from there, breathing excitedly. "The most amazing thing just happened!" she started. "I had to go to the bathroom… and I just WENT!"
Admitting that parenting is difficult and not always enjoyable has nothing to do with love. Of course you love your kids. I love my dog too but I don't love cleaning up his vomit. I'm not a bad person for admitting that.
Your graceful and honest handling of such a prominent topic is commendable. I wish everyone could be this real.
Posted by spleeness on 04/13/2009 at 09:00am | permalink | Reply to this comment
I agree with this post but it did make me ask myself – why do we choose to have kids? I've often said it is a selfish decision because the kids don't ask to be born so we have to bring 100% of ourselves to parenting. So much easier to do that when I'm at the office most of the day. And my nanny is WAY better at this than I am – but she reinforces my values which is key. I also recently wrote about how hard having a newborn is on a marriage – http://howdoyoudoit.wordpress.com/2009/04/10/guest-post-the-bundles-of-joy-that-bind-you/
Posted by Mommy, Esq. on 04/13/2009 at 09:01am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Penelope,
I don't agree with your knee-jerk, vicious response to Mr. Dellifield, but I do agree wholeheartedly with your judgment of child-rearing.
However, to me, that's not the most interesting point. You correctly cite numerous academic studies that have demonstrated that the happiness of both individuals and couples declines after having children. It's easy to understand why.
Then you go on to describe anecdotally how boring and stressful kids are. Soooooo true. Let's see—- next, yours will become rebellious teenagers who will make your life miserable as you try in vain to control them. Then they'll go away to college, use up all of your savings, and reject your values. Finally, they'll get married and move away, and as Jewish mothers like to say, "You never call :( "
Penelope, are you dense? David Dellifield is not the only one whose common sense is in doubt here. Given reality, why did you ever choose to have kids in the first place? Unless your contraception failed each time, you are the mindless biological breeder. "Having children is for those who don't have the imagination to do something else."
P.S. I love your straight career advice.
Posted by blass on 04/13/2009 at 08:24pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
WOw, when I started typing (just submitted), there were only 23 comments. Now there are 36. You've certainly alighted on a passionate topic!
Posted by spleeness on 04/13/2009 at 09:01am | permalink | Reply to this comment
In the context of this being the blog of a professional career coach, I'm disturbed by what most people *aren't* commenting on. Mr. Dellifield did not need to make a judgmental comment, and should not have. But Penelope, your response showed a shocking disregard for professional and personal boundaries. You called his work? and his home? specifically hoping to cause emotional distress in his family? That's bizarre behavior, and completely at odds with what one would expect from a professional career coach. I've been pointing my college-age son toward your blog for career insight; however, when we discuss this one, it will be in the context of a warning. As in, "Son, when you see this kind of behavior from a boss, coworker, mentor or coach, run away — it's not normal and it's not healthy, and being around it will be career-limiting."
Posted by Earl Davis on 04/13/2009 at 09:03am | permalink | Reply to this comment
P – Admittedly, I don't care about David or think his comment was any better or worse than stuff I get via the Internet, but I love the discussion his remark provoked. I adore my son, but I'm the first one to say that I couldn't stay home with him all day every day. I would go nuts. I love my career, I need my career. I will always be a working mom, and even though we do need the money, it's still by choice. Hope all is well. A.
Posted by Alexandra Levit on 04/13/2009 at 09:11am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Totally harsh and way, way overboard to a snarky comment. Much like the Navy, you used a million dollar post to kill a $1 insult.
Posted by upug on 04/13/2009 at 09:12am | permalink | Reply to this comment
When you make your life and your thoughts, actions and everything else in between public by way of the WORLD WIDE WEB you are not entitled to then bitch about anything that anyone comments on. It's a choice…you made it. Own it.
There's no right or wrong, but there are consequences for your actions.
Posted by Big on 04/13/2009 at 09:14am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Damn…
Posted by Brent Logan on 04/13/2009 at 09:14am | permalink | Reply to this comment
I love this post. I am glad you did your research and shared it with your readers. Only those who have done some care-taking can actually understand the difficulty of that role. As a young woman who has done a great amount of care-taking, I am glad when parents are honest that they cannot stay home with their kids all day, everyday. That's just super-human. I give a lot of credit to parents who stay home and take care of their kids. It is not an easy task. I would challenge anyone to try it for just a week. Maybe even for 3 days. Or try being a single-parent for that amount of time. Not easy. I really think that Penelope has a right to share those feelings with the world-its not like the kids can understand her frustrations.
Living in Madison, I have had the unique opportunity to become close to parents from all over the spectrum. I have also had the opportunity to "play mom" for about 12 days. It was definitely not a walk in the park. While I love this kid so much, I completely understood why parents go to work. But then I also understood the struggle of having a full-time job and being a parent. At the time, I was a student, working 20 hours a week and taking care of the child.
While I digress, I really just wanted to say to Penelope that I think your blog is awesome and I am thankful you shared your struggles with the rest of us! In the end, I think parents need to realize that their choice to stay at home or to go to work is their own and they need to be confident in that. And when their plan falls by the wayside occasionally, its okay to struggle with that-and to talk about it.
Posted by Shayla on 04/13/2009 at 09:17am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Why am I unsubscribing from your blog?
Because you are the most self-centered, egotistical, misinformed woman who I've come across. The screwy ideas that are in that unfortunately directed brain of yours boggle my mind almost every time I read a post here. You are truly living in your own world, trying to pass off your neurotic opinions as fact because some guy at a big name college said once in a Time Magazine article some BS…
There are so many or your posts that I have taken issue with, but I won't mention them all here. As far as this one is concerned, I would simply ask that you step back from your life for just a moment and take a look at what your current attitude is doing to the precious minds of your children. How are they being adversely affected by your self-centered pursuits? Remember, they come first.
Posted by klein on 04/13/2009 at 09:17am | permalink | Reply to this comment
I'm sure she's devastated that you're unsubscribing.
Posted by Kyle on 04/13/2009 at 01:43pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
:-)
Posted by Irina I on 2009-04-14 00:08:44 | (Comments wont nest below this level)
Actually, a mom who always puts her kids before herself is destined to totally screw up their lives. A mom who puts herself first has at least a chance that they'll turn out with some respect for her and themselves.
Penelope, I feel ya girl.
Being alone with my children, especially when they were both under the age of 5, has been one of the most difficult experiences of my life. It's getting easier and a lot more enjoyable now that they are 6 and 9 and can have actual intelligent conversations with me, but that also means now they can tell me how much they hate me when I don't do what they want.
Tonight, my ex and I had a bonding moment when our daughter was throwing a full-scale hissy fit over packing to go on her first school trip overnight and he looked at me and said "just wait til she's 14." I said yep, "it's gonna be painful."
That I love them more than anything in this world goes without saying AND I love being with them a lot of the time, it can also be absolutely painful.
Posted by Alexis Martin Neely on 2009-04-14 00:22:23 | (Comments wont nest below this level)
Great post. I love how you get right to the conflict that lies somewhere between the things that we want, the things we have to do, and the things that we think are important. There is a particularly difficult juggling act there, and you are absolutely right that it is supremely important that people be able to talk about that difficulty, even when that conversation happens in a difficult context.
Being frustrated by being stuck inside of that conflict doesn't mean you don't love your children, or that you are a bad parent, it means that you are struggling meaningfully within that space.
For all of those who believe in the absolute contrast between the (figuratively) white-hat parents who always adore being with their children at all times versus the (figuratively) black-hat parents who sometimes say "my kids are driving me crazy" and must, therefore, really be child-abusers, I wonder why you are so uncomfortable with the shades of grey in between. If one of the things you value is honesty, then shouldn't you be praising those who struggle faithfully in the grey spaces? And while we're chewing over the idea of honesty, can you really tell me that in those moments when you are really angry at your children for doing something stupid (and yes, I get that you are angry specifically because you love them), that you can really say that you adore your children and want them to be with you all the time? You don't have to walk away for a little breathing time?
Posted by Jonathan on 04/13/2009 at 09:20am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Who's eschewing shades of grey here? I defy you to find a reply where anyone said that parents should always be happy and that it's all rainbows and puppydogs. Yet you and PT and many other commentators are quite comfortable beating that strawman.
Parenthood is hard. There is no shortage of commentary attesting to that. It is not necessary to attempt to ruin someone's reputation to make that point.
Posted by JohnMcG on 04/15/2009 at 09:47pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Also, you forgot to mention that part of this is a generational thing. When I was growing up, my mom sent us outside in the summer from the time the sun came up to dark. We only came in to eat. No parent was following us around doing activities with us. I don't know what will happen to the generation of little kids today. When they grow up will they expect the world to do "programming" for them? Have activities ready so they never have to entertain themselves?
Posted by Jamie on 04/13/2009 at 09:21am | permalink | Reply to this comment
I have to comment on this comment: "Hope your kids don't end up finding this online one day only to find their mommy dearest didn't really like them that much."
Um, breaking news. It wasn't a secret that my mom wasn't always having a blast. And that's ok. I felt more loved, actually, because she made her sacrifices *despite* enjoyment. Changing piss-filled bedsheets at 4am wasn't fun but she did it. She wasn't exactly laughing her head off with joy just then but she did what she had to.
Not enjoying it didn't mean she was abusing me about it — the "mommie dearest" reference is out of line. It's meant to shut women up but since when has oppression ever helped anyone cope?
Actually, my mom's honesty about the difficulties has taught me resiliency and how to be real. Studies show these factors are almost more important for happiness & success than anything else — when does life ever go as planned? If you are real, you can have *real* relationships, not mirages of intimacy that echo unrealistic superficial views. And solid relationships are an integral part of inner happiness. I'll take an honest dialogue over false pretenses any day.
Posted by spleeness on 04/13/2009 at 09:24am | permalink | Reply to this comment
I love my child dearly. It's cliche, but he truly is the best thing that has happened to me.
However, his birth (not him) was also the worst thing that has happened.
If most parents are truly honest with themselves, they'd agree with Ms. Trunk that it's not all rosy being parents (whether you're "full time" or not); her post, and the reactions, remind me of an essay by Ayelet Waldman (http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/27/fashion/27love.html
).
See, during the summer I'm a stay-at-home dad (I'm a high school teacher), and I still get a mix of reactions when I tell people that. Friends – male and female – seem envious yet insincere when they say, "Oh, it must be great staying home," and shocked when I answer with "It's okay."
With strangers, especially women, I still get the "what's-wrong-with-him-that-he-doesn't-have-a-job" look when I'm out with my son during "working hours."
I suspect that people whom choose to work everyday and not stay home with their children, etc. think it's wonderful pricely because they've never experienced it for longer periods than a week. Try a month, or longer, and you'll get bored, crave adult conversation, etc.
Posted by Troy on 04/13/2009 at 09:25am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Folks,
This post is not about whether its OK to have mixed feelings about being with your kids full time. I think that's a widely discussed and explored topic. Of course its OK! Personally I think its possible that someone could enjoy spending more time with their kids than working. That doesn't make them delusional or full of shit. It would depend on the person, the kids, their day, and the quality of the job that was being left. If these people think it makes them better than everyone else because they feel this way then of course they are a-holes.
What this post IS about is pulling someone pants down on the playground and them kicking them in the balls. This is bullying – 100%. You got pissed off and then used this forum to get revenge. The hope being that all your sycophant followers will send this guy angry tweets and drive to Ohio to toilet paper his house. Of course he was insensitive and judging and wrong. You'd get the same attitude if you said that tweet out loud at the playground or in the supermarket. Maybe no one would verbally respond but you'd get the eye rolls. Welcome to Earth, get over it.
What you've done here far outstrips what he did, its wrong on so many levels. If you're a proponent of social media you've just dealt it a severe blow by highlighting how it can be used by people with power to destroy people without power. Message – don't participate.
I really think all the people cheering you on for "outing" this guy need to examine how they'd feel if it were them or someone they knew. I'm sure everyone out there has taken a tiny bit of evidence about someone else's parenting and immediately lept to a broad, inaccurate generalization. Its what we do – its a defense mechanism to make us feel better about our parenting.
You want to tell him off – do it one on one. This is just gross.
Posted by LuckyK on 04/13/2009 at 09:27am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Funny, when Penelope uses the internet to be rude to some guy, it's bullying and unfair. But when some guy uses a public forum to diss Penelope, it's just "some idiot guy".
Last I checked, it's her blog. Because people actually read it, she isn't allowed to use it as she likes? What about the millions of other blogs out there complaining about someone in particular?
Much in the same way you just publicly condemned her for her actions?
David is a great example of the inherent prejudice that is just ACCEPTED against parents, particularly mothers. I personally think that this situation brought up a number of great topics to think about.
Posted by Lane Ellen on 04/13/2009 at 09:47am | permalink | Reply to this comment
My point is that this is more than being rude. Its harassment. His wife didn't post the tweet, why is Penelope calling her?
I agree, she is allowed to discuss any topic she wants in her blog. But she's not allowed to bully, and if she does the community should call her on it. Its not good for anybody.
Yes I guess I have "publicly condemned her" but I did it here. I didn't call her at the office, or call her ex and ask him what he thought of her abuse of power. I didn't try to reach the nanny to patch me through to the kids.
I also agree that the topic is a good one and one she has blogged about before, but an unhealthy line has been crossed here. There are people who think the way we're assuming this guy thinks, and that's a problem. Let's discuss how to deal with those challenges (which many people are in the comments). But why are we using this guys name when we don't really know what he thinks.
Don't you think its a little ironic that you're able to classify this guy as having a "prejudice" based upon 2 lines in Twitter? Do we really think we have a complete picture of how this guy feels about parenting/work balance?
Posted by LuckyK on 2009-04-13 10:17:03 | (Comments wont nest below this level)
Lane hit the nail on the head. I have recently encoutered an avalanche of this prejudice against working mothers. I'm not sure what started it but, man it's been really apparently lately. I love my kids, I think they have a great life. My husband and I work crazy schedules so my kids are with my parents (my daycare) for the least amount of time possible.
I'm so tired of all the judging and the I'm perfect and your not.
Posted by Donna on 2009-04-15 00:42:48 | (Comments wont nest below this level)
Very well articulated. Couldn't agree more.
Posted by Hazel on 04/13/2009 at 10:28am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Hmmm — I'm curious how a dad would be treated who admitted he forgot his chidren's coats (but remembered his own) because he wanted to think about more interesting things.
Posted by John McG on 04/15/2009 at 09:50am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Agreed. It's like you know that you have a large forum of readers who will rise to your defense. As if tracking him down to call him at work and home wasn't enough…..
Grow up!
Posted by Deanna on 07/02/2009 at 01:41pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Thin skin much? Welcome to the interwebz. It's surprising that somebody so involved in the most social parts of the web would react so strongly to one stupid comment.
Posted by Luke on 04/13/2009 at 09:30am | permalink | Reply to this comment
I totally agree that David had no need to make the comment he did, but this punishment does not fit the crime.
Not giving out his number was a last-minute act of amnesty? It amazes me that you were even tempted to post it!
You compared him commenting to people calling you the "C-word" on Yahoo Finance? His comment may have been a bit self righteous, but it was not on the same vulgar level.
I love your blog, but this post was a bit hard to stomach.
Posted by Kyle on 04/13/2009 at 09:30am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Absolutely brilliant ~ this is my favorite post by far and I have been following your blog now for 2 years.
I love the line you used, "Let me ask you something. Do those guys check their email when they’re getting a blow job? Of course not. Do you know why? Because it’s INTERESTING."
This post left me rolling on the floor! Great way to start a Monday…thank you Penelope!
Posted by Jennifer on 04/13/2009 at 09:38am | permalink | Reply to this comment
What really pisses me off is the point you make about men vs. women in this thing. Completely unfair standards. David wouldn't be messaging men about their irritation with their kids, but feels that some woman should not be publicly complaining? Barefoot and pregnant anyone?
Sheesh.
I just have to say, selfishly, that I appreciate this post mainly for the honesty about tracking down David. I have this same reaction sometimes to people who are outright cretins. I never have called one. I wish his wife had answered (to echo someone else's comment above.)
Posted by Lane Ellen on 04/13/2009 at 09:41am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Love the post. Disagree with one part. It's not harder to stay home with kids than go to work. Not all the time. It's harder to stay home with 2 kids under 3 than it is to go to a mid-level management job. It's easier to stay home with 3 kids aged, 5, 7, and 10 than it is go to an executive level job. Let's say, at a startup. And for kickers, let's say that startup is running out of money…
Posted by LPC on 04/13/2009 at 09:53am | permalink | Reply to this comment
I have kids ages 3 (almost 4) and 6 (almost 7). And I have a startup that is always on the brink of running out of money.
I'd take the startup any day of the week: Way easier. There are rules, there are benchmarks, there are schedules adults stick to, and there are quantifiable achievments.
In a startup, each day you have a sense of whether you you succeed or fail. There is nothing like that with the day in and day out of parenting.
Penelope
Posted by Penelope Trunk on 04/13/2009 at 11:53am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Well, first of all you aren't home free until the youngest is 5. Second of all, I think one of your kids is special needs. Puts you in a different category. And yes, kids don't tell you if you are succeeding or failing. You don't get the 1 rating in the annual review. But other people should be giving you the nod when you are doing a good job, their teachers for example, or spouses when they are around. And finally, all kids go to sleep. And for me at least, when I would look in on them sleeping, I would get all the endorphins otherwise obtainable from corporate attagirls. And then some.
There is room in the world for women who love taking care of children and for women who don't. As long as the children get taken care of.
Posted by LPC on 2009-04-13 17:44:12 | (Comments wont nest below this level)
So this comment from you proves it – you're not a real mom, you're a part-time mom. You couldn't make your marriage work and now you're destroying something that you do have control over. I really feel for your kids. The fact that you are putting them in the same bucket is so wrong. You have a choice to have a start up, you don't have a choice to be a mom.
It's this liberal bullshit that is killing our society.
Posted by James on 2009-04-14 07:14:37 | (Comments wont nest below this level)
I dig it, PT.
My job in social work might not be so, uh interesting, if people really were honest about what having kids really means. You simply can't auto parent. Being realistic and honest about it your greatest contribution.
Thank you.
Posted by Juliette on 04/13/2009 at 09:56am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Well you have ensured that few will present a dissenting or even somewhat critical response moving forward here or on twitter. Not sure if that is a good thing. Your mileage may vary.
Posted by The Opinionator on 04/13/2009 at 09:58am | permalink | Reply to this comment
"And all you people who say you’d love to stay home all day with your kids if you could, you are completely full of shit."
Penelope, please don't generalize. Consider — even remotely — that what's applicable for you may not necessarily be applicable for others. There's no holy grail on this kind of stuff. And please don't be mean. You condemn David's behavior, and then mirror it back to your readership.
Posted by Hazel on 04/13/2009 at 10:06am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Sorry, I'm going to disagree with most of the rant. It simply is not on.
You went completely overboard over 140 characters. This is what a creepy stalker would do. You *called* the guy at his *workplace* to tell him off? Are you *kidding*? If what he said bothered you that much, then your skin – at least on this subject – is simply too thin, and you need to build a layer of callouses.
You call people at the workplace to discuss work. You, of all the people in the universe, should know this better than anyone. How would you feel if any random dipshit (like me, for instance, LOL) would start calling you at work to counter-rant to your rants?
And then publicly naming this guy by name, as though he were on "Megan's List" or something. That has been an Internet no-no for over 25 years. Someone as skilled as you in use of the social media should have known this.
Finally, your inability to recognize shades of gray in a *tweet*, of all things – less than 140 characters – is simply shameful. It's like jumping on someone for telling a joke without including a smiley.
Notice I have not said word one about your mommying. I'm sure you do just fine at it; were you to actually talk to this poor sod David, even through an *e-mail* or a *DM*, he'd probably have said the same thing. But no, that seems not to be what you do. You'd rather go off and make enemies both for him and for you.
I'm really disappointed in you, Penelope. I've been recommending you to others: that stops here, unless you can show me some strength of character. Better do it soon, because I'm sure you'll be posting something else in a week.
Posted by Ron Graham on 04/13/2009 at 10:07am | permalink | Reply to this comment
If you'd have bothered to look at Dellifield's Twitter home, you'd have seen this:
Can a kid throwing up monopolize 24 hours, YES!!!!
There was your counter-argument. Not what you actually wrote. Do homework much?
"Are you intentionally being mean to me in a public forum?" Jesus. What next?
Posted by Ron Graham on 04/13/2009 at 10:21am | permalink | Reply to this comment
I always wanted to be a stay-at-home mom. As it turns out what I wanted was to /want/ to be a stay-at-home…because it's what makes you a good mom…right?
But after some time of having my daughter home, I realized it was just too hard for me. Not in a "I give up too easily" way. But in a "not everybody is cut out for this" kind of way.
What I really want is to work part time and get to /choose/ my time with her. That way she gets some good socialization and scholastic skills in pre-school. And I get positive time with her, rather than I'm-too-tired-to-deal-with-you time. Parenting is exhausting, and I'd rather give her less time that is quality than an overload of time that is short-tempered and unpleasant for all involved.
Posted by Farrah on 04/13/2009 at 10:14am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Nice one. I think it's the equivalent of someone giving you the finger and then finding you waiting at their house to call them out on it.
Just because you have an opinion doesn't always mean you have to share it. I'm sure David Dellifield (and others) will think twice before hitting the send button next time they stumble across an opinion that differs from their own. In the past I have done the same kind of thing and act like an asshat because I'm hiding in the interweb. I only recently realized that the problem doesn't lie in what someone else has said but how I choose to react to it. If it bothers me I have to ask myself why.
Posted by Steve-O on 04/13/2009 at 10:15am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Well said.
Posted by Michelle on 04/13/2009 at 10:19am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Couldn't agree with you more, Ron. And with James, above.
I've also stopped recommending brazencareerist on account of this post (and similar needlessly vitriolic posts that have cropped up here and there in the recent past).
Posted by Hazel on 04/13/2009 at 10:22am | permalink | Reply to this comment
P: I am really, really shocked and dismayed by this post. It's so over the top. Yeah, okay, the guy made an insensitive and unkind comment. But you responded to his bow-and-arrow shot with a couple of nukes!
Not only that, but you insulted the hell out of me. I WOULD like to be home 100% with my kids; I DO enjoy their company, and I am NOT full of shit. Nor am I a liar. Oh, and my kids DO make me happy. No matter what the research says. (Lies, damned lies, and statistics, m'dear.)
I CAN'T stay home with my kids because I am a single mother who has to have a job to keep a roof over our heads and clothes on our backs. I miss the way things were when I was a full-time stay-home mom. I look forward to the two one-week vacations I take each year, when I can spend 9 straight days with my kids.
We play video games, go to the park and zoo, hit the museums and planetariums, read together, play Putt-Putt, go to Chuck E. Cheese, and do a zillion things that we don't get to do in the normal course of a week. We also catch up on household chores, tackle yard and gardening projects, work on scouts and karate stuff, and do boring stuff … together.
That's not to say that there aren't times when I would gladly ship my kids off to someone else so I could take a break. Or times when mothering / being home is unpleasant. Kids are hard work, and sometimes it's nasty work. I don't think there's any shame in admitting it, and I don't think anyone censures you when you say it. But if your attitude is that they are a pain in the ass and nothing is better than to be able to foist them onto someone else … well, that raises people's hackles. It's no secret that parenting is tough, but you did choose to create the little savages. Once you've made them, it's your job to civilize them.
I also want to point out that being a "stay-home" parent does not need to mean that you are "cooped up at home" 24/7. There are so many things to do once the kidlets are out of diapers. Meet other parents at the park: kids play and you talk. Take the kids to dance/sports/music lessons and spend the time reading or writing or taking your own dance/sports/music/whatever lessons. Take on freelance work. (I edited book manuscripts at the kitchen table while the boys napped or played in the yard/park.)
Being a "stay-home" parent also does not mean doing nothing but focusing on your kids 24/7. Kids need breathing space and time for their own thing, too. Being a stay-home parent means you have to learn to take your time when they take theirs, and to maximize every minute of every day. Just like you do at the office.
Now, put away the nukes, get a little perspective, and stop feeling guilty about the choices you've made in your life. We each do the best we can, and over-reacting to strangers because they pushed a guilt button is just not healthy. For you or for your kids.
Posted by Editormum on 04/13/2009 at 10:25am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Oh my God! That is so annoying what he did! When I saw your tweet about the kids, I thought it was risque, but then I took another TWO SECONDS to think and saw that you were referring to time spent with them while they play video games or something. Of course it would be boring! You're not saying your kids are boring, you're saying you're bored while watching them because you're not into games that 5-year-olds are into. Urgh. I'm so annoyed!
These people really should learn to actually READ, not just skim and then interpret the sentence in any way they want.
I commend you for being honest. Of course this tweet engendered controversy. And you knew it. But someone has to step up and say these things.
Posted by Irina I on 04/13/2009 at 10:30am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Wow, I think it's safe to say that you've mastered the conversation part of twitter.
I hate guys who have absolutely no idea what it would be like to actually be a stay at home parent but expect all women to love it. I worked up until the day I went into labor and the absolute standstill boringness of it was a shock to my system. I struggled with it and still do, I think most moms do.
I struggled with this and still do, but currently have found harmony in working part time. My son is now only 15 months and only recently started, you know, doing things. A huge part of my day is spend feeding, cleaning and napping.
I do it because my son is young and I feel it's important BUT I'm a left-minded, uber-logical software developer and lead who used to manage million dollar projects. I am not one of the people to which being a SAHM comes naturally.
So I get it. However… I'm about to say something that might get be hatemail and I'm sorry if it bothers anyone:
I DO think it wouldn't be so outrageous to enjoy a single day like that sans nanny. You've posted about how much you have to work and, therefore, not see them. So when you do, perhaps if you got off twitter (to complain), got off your computer (to look up David) and thought about them and their need of coats (rather than about your lack of intellectual stimulation), then maybe you would be able to enjoy their company a little more.
Posted by Amber Shah on 04/13/2009 at 10:32am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Wow. Not only is your blog full of self absorbed, self righteous and mean-spirited anger, but your entire audience of kiss-ups seem equally lost in their own reality-TV inspired confessional tizzy.
I believe David Dellifield is correct. Let me explain why.
The pop intellectualism that you claim you so crave is exactly what David is also tapping into when he psychoanalyzes your intentions, motivations and state of mind. Your decision to openly discuss your children in a public forum opens the door to all those deputized caretakers of the public good to step in and sound the alarm. David and others have been trained by countless Dr. Phils, and other TV shrinks to identify signs of possible trouble when it comes to child rearing, marital violence, etc…
As good old Malcolm Gladwell hypothesizes in his book Blink, most people are able to intuitively put random facts and information together to form a pretty darn accurate (and almost instant) picture of reality when confronted by complex issues. In other words, David was able to read your countless blogs and tweets and put together the fact that you are, or are quickly becoming a pretty crappy parent. I would say that if presented with the exact same evidence (written blogs and tweets), a majority of random people would come to the same conclusion. Maybe instead of hating David, you will one day come to appreciate his insights into your character–insights that you may be too conflicted to see for yourself.
Now, the inner little girl that you seem to wear on your sleeve will probably not like this post either. She will tug on your inner rage and demand another emotional, half-intelligent donnybrook of a response. Instead, I would ask that you simply take a deep breath and relax. You are probably not as bad a parent as your writing would suggest. I think that your personal and career focus on Gen Y is perhaps the problem. As a pre-menopausal, middle-aged woman trying to speak to 20 somethings, you are consciously or unconsciously littering your blogs with hints of behavior that appeals to your target market, but that you are simply too old to credibly have. You have lived too many years to still whine about how dumb your kids are and how much of a waste it is for someone as intelligent as you to be dealing with intellectually underdeveloped prepubescents. I get it, I’ve been there. It will soon pass and you will realize how dumb those past statements were. Like parachute pants and big hair, it all passes. It’s all a phase. No hard feelings, I still like your blog—most of the time.
Posted by A. Swerdlow on 04/13/2009 at 10:43am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Wow. If only you'd used fewer words and more thought in your comment. What a witches brew of untested theories, uneducated assumptions and ungrounded judgment.
"Pre-menopausal middle-aged woman," indeed! Just…wow.
Posted by jenniferlynn on 04/13/2009 at 06:06pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Actually, A. Swerdlow's comments are spot on.
I'm 50, been through the turbulent pre-menopausal years of my 40's, and done raising my kids. So I know. As do a host of other women who've been through the same. I can't imagine trying to deal with young children, career, dating, business start-ups, and more during the hormonal shifts that occur during those years.
I've also wondered about PT's subject matter and audience. She offers advice to Gen Y, but in doing so she often appears trying to BE Gen Y; which, of course, she's far from. Even more interesting, it seems a majority of commenters also are much older than Gen Y.
Posted by sophie on 2009-04-20 05:49:47 | (Comments wont nest below this level)
My takeaway:
It's OK that I can't figure out whether the clones are the good guys or the bad guys in the Clone Wars. I love my 8 year-old son, but I just can't stay engaged in his Clone Wars descriptions long enough to know if I should be rooting for the droids or the clones. I do know that Captain Rex is a good guy.
Posted by Chris on 04/13/2009 at 10:44am | permalink | Reply to this comment
You continue to rock. GOOD. FOR. YOU.
Posted by K on 04/13/2009 at 10:53am | permalink | Reply to this comment
AMAZING, this was a great piece
Posted by beily on 04/13/2009 at 10:57am | permalink | Reply to this comment
My favorite lines: "How about approaching all those guys with Blackberries at soccer games? Let me ask you something. Do those guys check their email when they’re getting a blow job? Of course not. Do you know why? Because it’s INTERESTING. They are checking their blackberries during soccer because soccer is boring."
Awesome. I love, love, love this post.
This weekend, I was reading From the Hips, a book on pregnancy (I'm not pregnant but everyone around me is and I want to be in the near future). One of the mothers anonymously quoted in the book talked about an incident at work when she just got back from maternity leave and was having lunch with coworkers. They were asking how motherhood was and she said, "I love it. He's so sweet and precious, just gorgeous. But every once in a while I look at him and think, 'God, why do you have to be such an asshole!'" All her coworkers gasped in horrow except for the father of three who guffawed.
I also talked to my good friend this weekend who is the mother of one and doesn't want anymore kids because she doesn't think she's very maternal. She loves her kid but she now knows that being a mom is not the biggest thing that defines her. I don't think her child is in danger because of this. In fact, he isn't because she knows this about herself. She knows that she can love and care for him but still think he's mostly a pain in the ass. People think that about their families all the time.
We think children are precious and that motherhood is sacred except we really don't because children are amongst the most abused, powerless demographics in the whole world (don't tell me about spoiled Millenials; take your head out of your butt and think about kids who die from diarrhea everyday and we do nothing). And mothers are amongst the most villified, unsupported, and unpaid demographic ever. We can romanticize parenting (and motherhood specifically) because we lie about the realities of it all the time. And that does no favors for anyone.
I totally know having kids won't make me happy. I think about what pregnancy will do to my body, how I probably won't have sex for a million years after, and how my kid will hate me for 5,000 things before they are 8. But then I don't want to be a mom to be happier. I want to be one because the experience of never being a mother in my lifetime would make me sad. There's a difference there.
I am an INFP and the link you gave on that type rings very true to me. I could see myself staying at home and I am already very maternal (read: controlling and always right!). That personality type also needs a lot of alone time, however, and I also know I'd be sad about not doing other things with my life so I will work and be a parent.
Posted by Joselle on 04/13/2009 at 11:01am | permalink | Reply to this comment
I have to completely agree. While I have no children of my own, I was a live-in nanny for a very wealthy family. And even though it was my job to be with the children all day, day-in and day-out, MY GOD IT WAS BORING. I chose the job, yes, but it was a means to be able to live in Germany for a summer and get all the experience that had to offer.
I loved those boys, no doubt, but I spent more time with those children than their own parents. Why did the mother chose to go back to her private practice as a doctor, even though her husband makes millions of dollars? Because it was what she loved to do.
And playing with those boys for 8-10 hours a day was mind-numbing. And when I was able to go down to my bedroom in the (very nice, marbled floored basement) I either cracked open a book or connected with friends on the internet. It was my detox every night.
So, what I'm saying is, even if it's your job to be with children, you aren't expected to love it 100% of the time.
Posted by Melissa on 04/13/2009 at 11:13am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Whoa. Guess that pop sound I heard a while ago was the can of whoop-ass being opened.
Posted by Secondo on 04/13/2009 at 11:14am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Monday morning at the office is my second favorite time slot of the week, just after Friday after work. I love them both for the same reason: the change. Friday, the whole weekend with my family is ahead of me: I love domestic life. But I know I would suck as a stay at home mom because by Sunday night, I'm frustrated that the house is somehow still a mess, the toddler is watching Madagascar for the 4th time that day and I haven't had a moment alone since that car ride home from the office. I don't know how my mostly stay at home husband does it for 5 days at a time.
Kids can be so much love & fun, but they can also be demanding, frustrating people who aren't sure what they want — but whatever it is, it's not what you've got.
Posted by Evelyn on 04/13/2009 at 11:17am | permalink | Reply to this comment
I saw your tweet and frowned, but wasn't going to say anything.
"I mean, intellectuals need intellectual stimulation, and that’s not something kids give."
But now I've seen this. This is the crappiest thing I've ever seen you write. Kids who have been taught to think for themselves and ask questions of the world are the most intellectually stimulating people you'll ever meet. They want to know how things work and continually try to make sense of life based on their limited but ever-growing experience. Their questions, if you do more than patronize them, are often fascinating, forcing you to rethink mundane, unjust or utterly illogical realities that you take for granted.
I consider myself a smart person. Some of the most stimulating and intellectually demanding conversations I've ever had were with kids.
The world is fascinating through the eyes of children. I feel bad for you that either you never learned to talk to them like real people or never taught them they could talk like real people. Try to see them as more than, as you would have it, "cute" but ultimately boring resource hogs. They are honest-to-god people. As soon as you consented to their birth, teaching them to become good, kind, decent, curious people became the most important and meaningful thing you're ever going to do. They'll outlive Brazen Careerist or any other venture you undertake.
If it hasn't yet been squeezed out of them, train your children to be curious. If they're already curious, try actually talking to them like people. Either way, I guarantee they'll become a lot more interesting when you see their minds as worthy of engagement on equal terms. If they are boring, it is because you have made them that way.
As for Dellifield, you're really working hard on eroding your credibility lately. First, all these puerile twentysomething posts, now cyber bullying of some guy who dared to disagree, however sanctimoniously, with your assessment of how intellectually stimulating your children should be.
As long as your life is going to be as hectic as related in your blog, you need to appoint a safety valve you can trust to ensure you don't post this kind of crap in anger. Dellifield's a jerk, but your response is shockingly worse. You don't get any gold stars for not publishing his phone number, either.
I've read your blog for years. I've often disagreed with you, but you had my respect. This time, I'm just embarrassed for you.
Posted by Danilo Campos on 04/13/2009 at 11:18am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Very well said Danilo.
Posted by Matt on 04/13/2009 at 08:48pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
The above comment from Danilo Campos is the best yet.
Posted by kchicago on 04/13/2009 at 11:32am | permalink | Reply to this comment
I agree!
Posted by Amy on 04/13/2009 at 07:21pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Ditto every sentence of Danilo's post.
Posted by Sarah on 2009-04-18 20:46:18 | (Comments wont nest below this level)
Dellifield gets his name in a post headline and now folks are all a-Twitter about him.
Man alive. I should have insulted you years ago and now I'd be famous.
Posted by Leonard on 04/13/2009 at 11:35am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Dude. If he were "famous," he'd have more than 150-some-odd followers.
I'm following him now, thanks to Penelope's plunk. But you know, just sayin'.
Posted by Ron Graham on 04/14/2009 at 06:47pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I agree with the other comments that say you've gone overboard here. Calling someone at work, and then at home, because they criticized something you wrote is … psychotic.
I'm someone who's actually heard you speak and heard you answer questions from the audience, and trust me when I say you aren't exactly Miss Supportive Sunshine when you converse with people in real life. Maybe you feel it's okay for you to be short with people & border on rude because you're an expert in your field, but then again maybe Dellifield feels he's an expert in parenting. Does that make it okay?
My advice – Turn the other cheek, take the high road, and practice the Golden Rule. You'll feel better about yourself.
Posted by Casual Surfer on 04/13/2009 at 11:36am | permalink | Reply to this comment
No sympathy for that David guy, but, after all the nasty comments written right here on your blog over the years, that little tweet is what caused you to totally lose it?
Backing slowly out of the room now . . .
Posted by Chad (not my real name!) on 04/13/2009 at 11:39am | permalink | Reply to this comment
God, I love you. You go!
Posted by Minx on 04/13/2009 at 11:46am | permalink | Reply to this comment
I took a position that allows me to work from home full-time. My wife works with me and we have an Aunt who comes over and takes care of our daughter for the bulk of the day. I'm glad I made this decision, and my wife is glad that she has something to work on other than diapers and feedings for our baby. I agree with the content of your post to some extent but not the tone. There's allot of snark on both sides of this issue and not allot of understanding of the other persons perspective. Most of the men I've worked with in IT are extremely affectionate fathers and are as active as possible with their children, but their livelihood requires them to be outside the house. If they'd have their druthers they would be much closer than they're able to. Maybe David's statement was born out of resentment that he can't spend as much time and be as involved as he'd like to be because of the realities of his situation. This histrionic assault on an opinion you don't agree with is unfortunate to me, especially because I've recommended your blog and bought your book for my wife. Not all men want the "women-folk" tied up in servitude, and not all men are unappreciative of the hard-work of Mothers.
Regarding the "intelligent people are bored by children" comment. I like to think of myself as an intelligent person, (Since titles seem to matter here, I'm in my early 30's and a Director of IT for a HR services company. So I think I have been ambitious enough in my career to comment on this. ;-) ) I find my daughter to be a fascinating wealth of understanding of what being a human is and a brilliant reflection on what I am. I am amazed to see my little quirks acted out by such a tiny body (how she sleeps, little ticks, etc.). Watching a child grow is an amazing experience and there's so much to learn. But I will admit sometimes I do want to just go sit quietly and read a book or not be interrupted while coding. But that's the sacrifice I chose to accept when my wife and I decided to create a new life. I'm looking forward to here becoming a hyper-kinetic child and hearing all the little babbling things children say and do.
Posted by Michael D. Hall on 04/13/2009 at 11:53am | permalink | Reply to this comment
I wish I hadn't commented earlier, after reading some of the follow up's and the sycophantic cackles I think that Penelope is the online equivalent of Oprah. A very intelligent person who writes about good stuff when she talks about business but comes across as very petty and vengeful when someone says something she doesn't like.
It's a free-Internet, you have a right to your opinion, and so did David. But you have a bully-pulpit. Maybe less bullying and more pulpit next time.
I'm going to check this book out, heard about it on NPR and it sounds quite appropriate in this case: "The Braindead Megaphone.
"
Posted by Michael D. Hall on 04/13/2009 at 02:40pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I can appreciate all of what you say. Shouldn't have to be so black
and white in the world. Sometimes, the husband, really, could be
the one to be there, in the home. If I could have made it as a
writer, I dreamed of being a Garp-like father/writer. Yes, I am
sure the reality can be a real killer. If I had a nanny, though,
even as an idea, I would have gone for custody against my first wife.
May she rest in peace. Soon.
I'm sure the day-to-day will eat your brain, but right now, all
I have, are fond memories of staying up all night with a baby
after a 12 hour shift -plus a part time job. Hope your nanny
is a Latina. I currently live in Buenos Aires. Lived in Costa
Rica before this. Latins love their kids. And their friends.
Publicly. Male cops here kiss each other on the cheek when
they say goodbye. I am beginning to believe that our ideas
about the longevity of retarded children is incorrect, and
possibly has more to do with acceptance. I am seeing more
and more down syndrome sons and daughter with gray
hair her. I think they are simply loved and accepted more
by their families here than in the U.S. With a nanny from
south or central america, I sometimes think that even I
could raise a child. I sure love the fun parts.
Thanks.
Posted by Hank Putnam on 04/13/2009 at 12:09pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
didnt read the pages of comments, but i can help but think…
p, you kind of invite (notice i didnt say 'deserve') this kind of thing by posting in such an intimate way to a very public forum. its part of who you are and what you do and you make no bones about it, but why is he wrong for voicing his *opinion* (rightly or wrongly) in the same forum on a thread that *you* began…
and for what its worth, i agree with your original comment.
Posted by cd on 04/13/2009 at 12:12pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
pwned.
Posted by Gil on 04/13/2009 at 12:20pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I just want to point out that this post is now the #1 result in a Google search for David Dellifield. As Dan Schawbel might say: you totally wrecked that guy's personal brand. Way to go. :)
Posted by Nisha on 04/13/2009 at 12:21pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
ha! i stay at home all day with two cats, and by 5pm i am going batty, i must be a horrible cat lover.
Posted by Calisara on 04/13/2009 at 12:22pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
You know what Penelope, I thought that Twitter post was great. I even laughed. Everyone feels that way sometimes about people they love, and it's not a crisis. You are onlydifferent in that you have the gall to say the taboo things that everyone thinks. Bravo. You're my honesty role model.
Posted by Natalie on 04/13/2009 at 12:26pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
To all you wondering why PT has a thin skin about this, he didn't just criticize her parenting style. He basically said she doesn't love her kids:
"send them to OH, we'll enjoy them for who they are"
And later: "kids have faults, lets love for who they are"
That's crap. It's not like she bemoaned their lack of interest in Proust and thinks they're letting her down. She just said what a lot of SAH parents are too afraid to say out loud: kids are often boring.
Also, it seems that those for & against this post break down pretty solidly along gender lines. Hm. I wonder what the breakdown is of fathers vs. mothers in terms of gross hours spent with their kids per annum?
Disclosure: I don't have kids.
Posted by Dominic Humoroso on 04/13/2009 at 12:32pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Not an appropriate comment by DD for sure. But really, are you proud of yourself for working to create enemies across the world for him? Is that the way you want to live your life? Wouldn't it just be easier to block him? It's OK for you to post about your personal life and sexual escapades but you get upset when someone takes what you wrote at face value?
He's entitled to his opinion and you can not like staying home with your kids all at the same time. No reason for you to go off the deep end on him.
PS, stalking is illegal in a lot of areas so maybe you should watch that in the future.
Posted by wja on 04/13/2009 at 12:46pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Holy Shit!
Rock on, sister!
Posted by Cara Ellison on 04/13/2009 at 12:47pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
LOL to comparing blow job to kid soccer game…
I think this is a great post, but it is somewhat contradictory to your previous post about how women are practically equal (because they are making more than men) in work places therefore you hate getting awards or going to groups that are for women only. Because look, you just got kicked in the head by some dude for being a bad mother because you miss work, maybe this is a reason to promote women who are successful outside of the house?
Posted by NYC Memories on 04/13/2009 at 12:49pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Thank you for having the courage to be honest.
Posted by Jamie on 04/13/2009 at 12:50pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
See, this is why I wish I had your public forum. I get pissed off at people like this David guy all the time, but only you have the chutzpah to make him pay, and to warn off other fools. I don't think it's over the top — the guy wrote to you, so he must have some idea of how you blog. I'd never dream of pissing off a blogger with such a big audience, a sometimes-caustic tone and brutal honesty about her personal life.
And I would go mad if I was forced to stay home with my kids. Even today, Easter Monday, when their school and after-care centre are both closed, I'm at work and they're at playdates, because after three days of togetherness as a family, I am enjoying a day at the office. And don't anyone dare say I don't love my kids, or I'll tell Penelope on you!
Posted by Carla on 04/13/2009 at 12:54pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
"And all you people who say you’d love to stay home all day with your kids if you could, you are completely full of shit."
It seems this is the same kind of generalization that upset you enough to write this column. Which makes me realize that really it's all about having a snappy headline and a divisive column to up your readership.
Kids are hard work, you're not a bad mother for saying so, or for thinking so. But just because something doesn't work for you, or isn't your idea of fun, doesn't mean that anyone who says otherwise is full of shit.
You're slinging the same mud that you seem to be personally upset about being hit with. That removes any chance you had of the high ground in this argument, and makes reading your column something that is no longer worth my time.
Posted by Brandon on 04/13/2009 at 12:55pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
All,
If this conversation struck a nerve, you might enjoy a book that ~100 working mothers (and 1 working dad) from around the world just produced (April '09) called the "Working Mother Experience." In it, they tell stories that touch on guilt, pain and joy — as well as why they go to work and the impact of this decision on their sanity and on their families. The book is above all else "honest." The parents all work at EMC. The book was born from two moms discussing a topic, just like this, in the hallway of the company HQ one day.
You can download the book for free at: http://www.emc.com/collateral/about/jobs/pdf/h4470-working-mother-bk2.pdf. If you'd like a copy of the book mailed to you or to join the conversations (or contribute your own working mom/dad story) happening as a result of this book, check out the blogs:
http://www.workingmotherexperience.com; http://www.pollypearson.com.
Regards,
Polly Pearson
Mom, Blogger, and
VP of Employment Brand and Strategy Engagement at EMC
Posted by Polly Pearson on 04/13/2009 at 01:00pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I was hoping to hear about the intergalactic battles. It will be okay Penelope. To your kids you are just mom and that will always be enough for them. At least until the teens anyway. Honesty with kids better than anything.
Posted by Don B. on 04/13/2009 at 01:07pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I think almost every parent has felt this way about their kids. You stuff it to the back of your mind and you suck it up. It's called "Being a mature adult who made the adult decision to have kids."
"No intellectual banter"?? How about you try talking to them. They're YOUR kids. If you tried talking to them you would find that kids say the most amazing things, and often very fuuny.
The REALLY sad thing is you and so many other people don't have the ability to realize that they're not just "Kids" or "undeveloped little people", they're YOUR kids and one day they will be adults and can possibly be the best friends you'll ever have. And they'll hopefully take care of YOU one day when you're feeble and you're shitting your pants.
Shouldn't we treat our own children with a little more respect?
Posted by annie on 04/13/2009 at 01:22pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Penelope, regardless of what David said, the comment you put up on Twitter (I saw the original) made me go "ouch" for the KIDS' sake. (I hope they can't read your tweets.) And it wasn't about Staying at Home With the Kids. It was about Staying at Home With the Kids for ONE DAY. What you implied (or how I heard it) was that staying at home for ONE DAY was painful for you. Boring. Impossible. If I were your child I'd be really hurt by that comment. I think that is what people might have been responding to, no? I'm a mom. I was a single parent. Was it tough? Hell, yes. But I wasn't tweeting about it or broadcasting that fact in public. I might have told a few sympathetic mothers, but not my daughter for Pete's sake, or in a place where it might leak back to them and hurt them like heck, as in, for YEARS. As in scar them. Good you know NOW you're not cut out for it. But there you are. A mom. Do your best, dear.
Posted by Kathryn/plantwhateverbringsyoujoy.com on 04/13/2009 at 01:23pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
When did she say she wasn't cut out for it? All she said was that it was HARD.
Posted by Sara on 04/13/2009 at 01:39pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
First paragraph:
I tried for four years to be a stay-at-home mom, only to discover that I am not meant to do that.
Posted by Meredith on 2009-04-13 14:06:37 | (Comments wont nest below this level)
She said she wasn't mean to be a stay at home mom, not that she wasn't meant to be a mom at all, which is why Kathryn was saying.
Posted by Sara on 2009-04-15 12:47:27 | (Comments wont nest below this level)
Kathryn, you don't seriously believe a six-year-old will one day read her Tweet and be scarred by it? Part of the fun of becoming a grown-up is remembering what a pain you were as a kid.
I cried on the first day of school, generally was a grouch when I got up in the morning, and was way too obsessed with Star Wars. And sometimes my mom yelled at me about those and a thousand other things. Now at family gatherings these are funny things to discuss.
I have enough self esteem not to have needed mommy to tell me "you're special and interesting" every breathing moment. Or for her to have even listened to most of what I said.
Posted by Dominic Humoroso on 04/13/2009 at 01:59pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I've only skimmed the comments, but I'm sorry to see that so many are missing your point. I'm not a stay-at-home mom and of course that means that I let my kids be raised by others, so I'm sure none of those people will care what I say, or place no value in it, but whatever.
I loved this and am so glad it got tweeted for me to find!
Posted by April on 04/13/2009 at 02:00pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
What is really sad is that the whole culture says kids are special but their priorities are really low when it comes to making the programs that help them develop into functioning adults. Anything having to do with educating a new generation is seen as superfluous by our society.
I think I just realized also why I don't like Twitter—and I wonder if David still likes it.
Posted by Leslie on 04/13/2009 at 02:04pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
You make my world so very much richer. And saner. Thanks for the all the wisdom.
Eduardo Di Lascio
São Paulo
Brazil
Posted by Eduardo Di Lascio on 04/13/2009 at 02:08pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Geez–I have to admit I'm surprised that anything anyone could say to you would upset you this much. Do you get this upset every time someone accuses you of not loving your kids because you work and travel all the time and have a house manager and a nanny? What was it that bothered you so much about this particular comment?
I'm not really sure where I stand on this issue: I was a stay-home mom for 8 years–and miserable for most of that time. Now I work and feel guilty when I have to go to work when my kids are sick or on vacation. Just like every other mom who either feels guilty working or hates being at home but needs to be there because she feels its what's best for her kids.
I guess all I have to add to this conversation is that it kills me when people assume that every job is interesting and intellectually stimulating, and therefore better than being home with kids. Most people don't have a startup or a blog with 32,000 subscribers and are at the mercy of a boss when their kids are sick. Most people sit at a desk all day, bored off their asses and with a boss who treats them like crap. They also don't earn enough to have a house manager or a nanny; many don't earn enough to even cover daycare.
The last thing I'll say is that the millions of mommy bloggers out there who write about how being home with kids sucks…at the end of the day, they're still choosing to be home because they feel it's the right thing to do for their kids. Just because it's boring and depressing and you may or may not be suited to it doesn't mean that the only answer is getting a job. And even if you get a job it doesn't mean you'll automatically be happier.
Posted by Maggie on 04/13/2009 at 02:13pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Hey David, how about calling in to Penelope's radio show on Thursday?
Posted by Brenda on 04/13/2009 at 02:13pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
After she had time to think about posting this, I'd be really afraid of what she'd say to him off the cuff.
Posted by James on 04/13/2009 at 02:25pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Re: the comments about how PT should be expecting comments like this for posting personal information in a public forum… are you serious? That's like saying women should expect to be raped if they're wearing short skirts. Just because she chooses to put out personal information doesn't give him the right to be rude and judgmental. If he does, such in this case, she has every right to fight back. You could reverse the logic and decide that because his personal phone numbers are online he should be expecting crazy phone calls. It's essentially the same thing… you can't find one right and the other wrong. It's hypocritical.
I agree with the majority of the post. My fiance and I want to have kids. However, I had a violent parent and know that I internalized her behavior as the way mothers act. There is always the possibility I could be a violent parent as well. However, with that self-awareness I have been able to determine that I will never and can never be a stay at home parent. However, my fiance would make an excellent stay at home Dad and is actually looking forward to it. That sort of self-awareness is what makes good parents. PT is probably a good parent because she has the self-awareness to KNOW how she can be the best parent to her children. There is no one-size-fits-all here. The best parent I can be is to be near my future children only in the evenings and on the weekends and to spend the rest of the time providing for my family. The best parent my fiance can be is to be around the children almost all the time, teaching them and playing with them everyday. We are different people and have different strengths. Raising a family is much like working life: the more you're able to match people's strengths and interests to the job at hand, the better they will perform. Likewise, if the person has a major weakness, you keep them off that project. It's about honesty and using self-awareness to create the best end product, not about forcing yourself to fit a societal mold to create a product you might not be happy with at the end.
And, I love your blog. My best friend and I are on opposites sides of the US and frequently call to talk about your recent controversial posts. I don't always agree with you but am always entertained.
Posted by Melissa on 04/13/2009 at 02:51pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
"That's like saying women should expect to be raped if they're wearing short skirts. "
Yes, a rude tweet is exactly like rape…
My goodness…
Posted by John McG on 04/15/2009 at 10:09am | permalink | Reply to this comment
P.S. Could somebody contact DD? I'd love to hear both his and his wife's response to this.
Posted by Melissa on 04/13/2009 at 02:54pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Wow, Penelope, I've known you are a bitch (based on things you've written yourself online) for a while, but now you've proven that you're a crazy bitch.
You called someone at WORK and at HOME because he dared to insult you online. Then you wrote an entire blog rant calling him out by name and almost posted his phone number online!! And you give people career advice. You seriously need to reevaluate your life.
Posted by Shannon on 04/13/2009 at 03:02pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
This is nothing like a skirt wearing woman getting raped.
This IS like a beautiful super model that's made a fortune branding herself as a fashion diva being caught looking trashy during a show, then hunting down the critics that call her out for it… calling them at home and trying to harass their families.
PT uses her "I'm a mom and blogger and expert in my field" persona to sell her product, which is basically herself. When she writes a post about successfully balancing work and home life, personal and work life, or personal and home life people laud her for it and tell her what a good job she's doing. She puts herself out there to be critiqued. DD did not investigate some random person that didn't want their personal information shared, he simply commented on someone that sells herself and the events in her life when he disagreed with something she said.
This is no different than a model wearing a dull outfit or a popstar coming out with a bad CD. PT's product is herself and that opens her up to criticism. How the popstar or model handles the situation is what is remembered.
Honestly who did she think had more to lose with this post, some random guy on the internet that none of us know or her? I don't know DD, people don't read DD's blog, only SHE stands to lose.
Posted by James on 04/13/2009 at 03:11pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
God you are just fabulous :-) Thanks for being truthful with your feelings!! so few people are :-) and to the people posting that she is being too harsh back…um…. have you ever heard of venting….that's what her post is, only she vented publically and brilliantly I might add.
Posted by Jodi on 04/13/2009 at 03:17pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
So, uh, calling someone's place of work and home is "venting" now huh? What would acting rashly be called then?
I missed that part on my first response, I misread the post the first time through. Now I realize that Ms. Trunk has anger management issues. I hope you do to and consider that in the future. Harassing someone is not acceptable. And, please do consider what you would *honestly* think is this were a man pursuing the opinions of a woman as harshly and vindictively. "You go girl" doesn't seem to apply here, as David held no power over her and was actually quite irrelevant and inconsequential. (No offense there, David)
Posted by Michael D. Hall on 04/13/2009 at 03:24pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
posting proofread time next more ;-)
Posted by Michael D. Hall on 2009-04-13 15:35:33 | (Comments wont nest below this level)
funny… last month he randomly tweeted "just because you have the gift of criticism doesn't mean you always need to use it." it appears he didn't listen to his own advice.
Posted by anji on 04/13/2009 at 03:20pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
For the record, that was the daily calendar page for – don't sweat the small stuff -
Just keeping it real on David's originality….
Posted by Amy on 04/16/2009 at 12:18pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I agree with your general argument, but the vengeful hatred you spewed at this man completely mars their impact. Destroying this man didn't add anything to the discussion, and in fact has completely detracted from it.
Online humiliation and harassment is not acceptable. Ever. Be truthful: this isn't you wanting to honestly discuss the issue of parenting. It's you trying to heal a bruised ego. Or perhaps even more truthfully, it's you trying to heal a bruised ego by using sensationalist blog posts to generate traffic to make you feel better about yourself, with the added bonus of simultaneously kicking the person who offended you to the curb in the process?
Very professional.
Posted by Rachel on 04/13/2009 at 03:28pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Best…blog entry…EVER! Thanks "Penelope"! Very few mothers/parents have the balls…er, courage to say what you have. Few have the self-awareness to recognize such feelings. Fewer yet are strong enough to admit it to themselves let alone say it aloud to their partners and/or closest friend(s)…or, in your case, in a public forum online! My wife and I often contemplate whether or not we are "bad" for not choosing to procreate. Turns out we simply don't have the interest and that doesn't make us bad. Besides, it's been done to death! We respect (perhaps it's fear) the sacrifices and the subsequent loss of freedom and flexibility in one's life that comes with such a 20-year commitment.
With that said, I pray for your own sake (as a writer) that you don't always take criticism from online strangers so personally. Then again, your response made for a terribly entertaining entry (and numerous responses!), which is the likely the goal of most any blogger.
Posted by Jason J Denis on 04/13/2009 at 03:43pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Wow, you showed him! Of course you look totally mean spirited, psychotic with incredibly deep rooted insecurities, while your "fans" are certainly masked as being a few tacos short of a combo plate, but at least you can sleep better at night now. Right?
And hey, you didn't discount his opinions like you did previously by calling a critic "fat". Remember that one? An oldie but a goodie. Made you looked absolutely horrible as a person. Happened in April. Maybe you need to not post in this month.
Oh, and as for destroyed, some of you spend too much time online. I doubt he is a destroyed man because some unhinged writer that only .001 % of America knows about wrote a blog piece about him. She looks worse than he does. Add in the fact this has been done before by Penelope and I would say David is the one who comes out of this better.
Posted by Sidney on 04/13/2009 at 03:56pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Penelope once again shows that she is a self-absorbed bully who can't take it when someone disagrees with her drivel. Given her history, is this a surprise to anyone?
Posted by Jim on 04/13/2009 at 04:23pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
So Jim…why do you keep reading her blog? I'm not being facetious; if you really think it's drivel, don't read it. Why stick around only to lob insults?
Posted by Ariel on 04/13/2009 at 04:26pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Ariel, this is the first (and last) time I've read this blog, but I think I can safely assume that she is in fact a "self-absorbed bully who can't take it when someone disagrees with her drivel". Her actions were totally unacceptable, and she should remember that stalking can go both ways.
Posted by Bemused on 04/14/2009 at 02:14am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Wow… someone disagreed with you online and you took such deep offense that you nearly began stalking them? And then blogged about it in a very hurtful, personal way?
I agree with a point you made in the post that we do often convince ourselves we need to be happy with our kids and they are the root of all happiness.
But I, on a very personal ethical basis, disagree with your handling of the situation, which really boils down to one person's opinion that simply doesn't align with your own. This is one of the realities of discussion on the Internet, made all the more (or less depending on how you look it at) amusing at the children who so quickly become so deeply affronted. And this was certainly entirely childish.
-Posting anonymously just in case you decide to stalk me too. :(
Posted by Anonymous and no longer subscribed to your blog on 04/13/2009 at 04:29pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I have to admit your reaction seems totally out of proportion with his comment. It really makes it look like he hit a nerve (truth hurts and all that) – and in my opinion your reaction isn't flattering for you at all. People don't generally react this extremely unless the point really hit home.
Every parent knows staying at home with your kids full time is extremely hard – but that wasn't the issue here. The issue was you staying home for ONE day with them. You really can't compare being a SAHM with that.
Kids aren't "intellectually stimulating" most of the time – but what about just enjoying the time-out from that and making the most of the time you do get with your kids.
I have two kids and work full time – and I know I couldn't be a SAHM. But I do cherish the time I DO get to spend with my kids.
Getting off my soap box now. I do understand where you're coming from, but knowing people who desperately want kids but can't, knowing people who have lost a child, knowing people with extremely sick children who require round-the-clock care – I just cannot even begin to agree with you or feel sorry for you having to spend a day with your kids.
Posted by Maria Gunnarsdottir on 04/13/2009 at 04:40pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I actually read this post during a blowjob so I think I just blew your whole argument. Oh wait…I bet you were referring to *getting* a blow job. Never mind.
Posted by Jenny, Bloggess on 04/13/2009 at 04:48pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Dear PT,
You are okay. And you make an okay mom. Its about making consistent decisions consistently right? And you make it, every time you decide not to post the rugrats to some boarding school in the middle of Scotland, or to David's house in OHIO. So you are okay. And this blog post was justified. I guess he will become a meme in due time. When mom's complain about wanting a night to themselves and the dad's dont comply: Women can say, hey dont be a david dellifield, or dont get all Dellifieldy on me. :P Or maybe those annoying non-complacent partner (male or female) will be refered to as Dellic*s. Hope this cheered you up. I love your posts.
IA
Posted by Isha on 04/13/2009 at 04:58pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
BRILLIANT post!
I don't have much invested in the parenting debate here, but this touches on a huge issue, indirectly. Many of the more vitriolic commenters are angry that Penelope "overreacted" to a "mere tweet"…
And, even though she never actually mentions what she intended to say to him (other than a bit of obvious sarcasm), commenters are "shocked" that she was going to call and "harass" him.
When I read the initial post, I thought that perhaps she was going to give him a chance to apologize and explain himself before publicly eviscerating him. Which she certainly did…and to that, I say hurrah.
The biggest lesson here is, anything you post to the internet using your real name *can* and *will* be used against you. Any whining about whether the guy "deserves" this googlebomb of a post or not is ridiculous. If this guy wanted to make snarky, mean comments to a public figure, he should use a disposable email and an account that doesn't reference his real name. It's not Penelope's fault that he is clearly an idiot about using social networks. She is just using him as a convenient example.
Just this morning, I had a conversation with the woman in the cubicle next to me about a member of management friending her on facebook over the weekend, and I mentioned that is why I have not friended any co-workers on facebook (it's the only site I use where I have my full real name, so I use the highest privacy settings and am extremely conservative about what I post there)….these are the issues that all internet-savvy folks spend time thinking about these days.
This also reminds me of last month's twitter-controversy about "Cisco Fatty": http://blog.datamation.com/blog/2009/03/cisco-fatty-you.html
We will only see more of these stories. Most people don't "get it"…the internet is NOT a private club. If you make public posts, even if it's "just twitter", you can lose your job, your clients, or even end up with the first google hit for your name as a blog post going on about what an idiot you are.
Anyone who is ignorant of the realites of social networking, and a troll, deserves to be called out and destroyed on google. Yes, it is
Posted by Kat on 04/13/2009 at 05:04pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Hey Kat, way to double standard there! What you are saying is equivalent to "she shouldn't have gone to the bar dressed like that". She didn't just eviscerate the guy on his blog, she pursued him. She went after him, she chased him down and was going to embarrass him by calling his wife. Your bias is showing very clearly. The post was not brilliant, it was petty and disturbing. And before you toss me off completely, my initial reaction was sympathetic, but after reading some of the responses and re-reading her post I realized that this wasn't just a harmless little web banter. And why don't I simply ignore this and go away? Because this is a dangerous behavior, and the mindless bleeting of her version of "dittoheads" is honestly disturbing. Ms. Trunk has a widely-heard and listened to voice, and when she gets up and cries for blood for the slightest insult the ramifications can be longer felt than the original posting intended.
PT, you might feel high-and-mighty for knocking-down this misogynistic female-oppressing woman hater, but consider the ramifications on his future job or personal searches. Your posts rank very high on Google searches, and I'm sure in short-time his name will appear higher on a search for his name than his LinkedIn profile (I don't know if he has one, that's just an example). Was the insult that severe that you are willing to damage this man's future prospects and generally impugn his integrity? I'd like to hope not.
Ms. Trunk, please remove his name from the posting. Or at least use his initials instead of his full-name.
Posted by Michael D. Hall on 04/13/2009 at 05:39pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I see a lot of bile and accusations in your reply, Mr. Hall, but no logic whatsoever. Your "double standard" comment is not logical, and makes absolutely no sense. You use a "shocking" statement about women "asking for rape", as a logical assertion? You are saying absolutely nothing there.
The only "double standard" I see is yours: "/unfollow @penelopetrunk because cyber-bullying is not cool http://bit.ly/qRRKf really, you categorize that under "fulfillment, women"?" …this is a direct quote from your twitter.
So, to follow YOUR logic: cyber-bullying OF Penelope Trunk is fine, but cyber-bullying BY Penelope Trunk deserves punishment. Hmm. Now THAT looks like a double standard to me.
I really should know better than to feed the trolls, but that one was too hilariously obvious.
Posted by Kat on 2009-04-13 20:13:50 | (Comments wont nest below this level)
Hmmm, no, I'm pretty sure the biggest lesson here is that PT is irrational.
"There was no answer at his work. But I noted the number so I could ruin his life there if I ever felt like he needed to be taught a lesson."
If David is a lawyer, or has a lawyer buddy, she may be hearing from him.
Posted by Bill on 04/13/2009 at 05:47pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Oh Bill, you silly goose, there is nothing illegal about ruining someone else's life. Get a clue.
Posted by lbutlr on 2009-04-13 18:47:54 | (Comments wont nest below this level)
The other Sunday I had to work all day. My husband took the kids and I didn't see them all day. It was bliss!
I work from home and there are days when encarceration and a straight jacket sound like the makings of a good holiday.
I manage the PR of a parenting expert/psychologist/author who I feel like I should be paying instead of the opposite because among the other stuff I have learned from her, she says that parents should not feel guilty if they don't want to play with their children (if anyone wants to know more about her book about no such thing as the perfect parent: http://colourfulwords.blogspot.com/2009/04/are-you-as-tired-of-child-raising-as-i.html)
Why do people have to judge parents for being human!
Posted by Natalie on 04/13/2009 at 05:19pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
PT is not a stay-at-home mom who got to the end of her rope — she is someone who works full time, and was so horrified at the prospect of spending a single day in the company of her children that she chose to blog about it.
She has managed to tap into the frustration that SAHM's fell about their days, wrap herself up in it, and claim solidarity to justify herself.
Frustrated SAHM's who think they have a friend in PT are likely in for a rude disappointment.
Posted by John McG on 04/15/2009 at 10:16am | permalink | Reply to this comment
If your husband fouind this one day of child care so daunting that he felt the need to complain about it on the Internet, my suspicion is that you and others might "have to judge parents for being human!"
Posted by John McG on 04/15/2009 at 11:07am | permalink | Reply to this comment
I *so* agree with this post! And I'm a grandmother who adores my grandsons–for short periods of time.
Posted by Pam Baggett on 04/13/2009 at 05:24pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I love your blog.
In my mind, your blog makes other blogs call it "mother" and they mow your blog's lawn, and then their blogs pay *your* blog a dollar when they're done.
But I found this post, while intriguing, a bit mean-spirited. People get called out unfairly on twitter all of the time – I'm just not sure that the magnitude of the punishment in this case is aligned to that of the crime…
Posted by 1WineDude on 04/13/2009 at 05:38pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Provocative post, this one. The opinions appear to be only either for or against Penelope's response to David (virtually nothing in between), while fairly aligned regarding the reality of parenting.
So is her outing of David simple tit-for-tat? One-upsmanship? Cyber plus real stalking? Some new style of online justice? Because when the gloves come off, does anyone really win? And just because you can go there online, should you?
Posted by Ardith on 04/13/2009 at 06:00pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
The same people (usually men) that expect women to loooove staying home with kids all day are the same people that think being an elementary school teacher is easy. My feeling is, until you have done either thing (spent weeks on end at home with little kids or tried to teach and control 34 fifth graders)- be quiet! You have no idea what you are talking about.
Posted by Family Homework Answers on 04/13/2009 at 06:08pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
FINALLY someone who put a Twitter jackass in his place besides me. HOORAY. I think your post is phenomenal. I think David Dellifield is an self righteous asswipe and I don't even know him.
I am a single mom of 5. Three are still at home. I adore them…and have a blast with them. I think I'm a great Mom but you know what, I'm tired. Sometimes I just want to not talk or not make a snack or NOT listen to one more story about who made it to jump rope finals.
Am I a bad mom? Hell, no. But I'm a real person. Any of these "mommys" out there that pretend that they take joy in poopy diapers because it's "Cute"…well, they do heavy drugs.
You're awesome.
Posted by TheDailyBlonde on 04/13/2009 at 06:11pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I just found out about my husbands affair.
I work a lot, he's stay at home (he can't hold down a job).
When the other woman said I must be having my own affair.
I could handle her made-up accusations.
But when she challeneged my love for my children, and said she would be a better parent because she'd be at home, that sent me into crazy world.
I don't agree with Penelope's public display of defensiveness, but I understand it.
Posted by Grace on 04/13/2009 at 06:17pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Actually Ardith, my bet is that PT will be driving to Ada, Ohio wearing an adult diaper so she doesn't have to stop to pee…she will be stearing with one hand and twittering with the other. Earbuds tightly in her ears with her Ipod blaring. Loud enough so that she can't hear her intellectually challenged kids in the back pleading with her to stop and turn around…This whole PT episode is sounding more and more like a Twitter version of the Lisa Nowak story…it would make a great Lifetime Channel movie.
For all of those kindhearted people worried about poor David's reputation, I would say the following: Approximately 98% of all those who would read any of the posts including David's original Tweet, would side with him, laugh hysterically and assume that PT is a woman scorned in great need of a very patient therapist. Of course, you would expect that those that blog and read this post are much more sympathetic to PT's irrational behavior than the public at large.
Posted by A. Swerdlow on 04/13/2009 at 06:20pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
okay, so maybe I wouldn't have recommended calling the guy, but still! With the ludicrous expectations placed on mothers, is it any wonder that sometimes, when someone is an a-hole about it, they get really, really mad? Maybe more people should get angry. Maybe we need a little indignation every now and then.
But to the real point. I am childless and in my 20s, so I have no direct experience. But I keep hearing from mothers that no one ever told them just how hard it would be– harder than relationships, career, anything else– and how impossibly high the standards are. And as someone on the outside, it seems that people react really hatefully to women who tell the truth about how much it sucks. The men, I get. They are vested in keeping things as they are. But the vitriol from other women is horrifying and confusing to me. I was watching Oprah on dvr the other day, and one of her guests said, "We love our kids, but sometimes we hate motherhood." Why isn't okay to admit it? Moms? Thoughts?
Posted by jenniferlynn on 04/13/2009 at 06:21pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
You went waaaaaaaaay too easy on Dave. I mean seriously, he was a del-righteous asshole and he deserves much worse. Perhaps we should verbify his name?
"Sorry I was such a dellifield last night; I guess I need to stop after 6 shots of tequila!"
Posted by lbutlr on 04/13/2009 at 06:39pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Gee Weez, Jenniferlynn! You are making motherhood sound like rocket science. Neither fatherhood nor motherhood is a new invention of the 21st century. Believe it or not, and I'm cuttin ya some slack given that you are in your 20s…motherhood/fatherhood has been around for quite some time now. I hate to make this crass comparison, but you can say that having kids and rearing children is a bit like eating, drinking, taking a crap or having sex. You're kinda born with the ability to do it. Your not Mother Teresa for working some boring office job (or worse yet, sitting at home on your ass drinking lattes and typing on your cute little mac book)and having a kid! Now, if you want to really see rugged, tough women in action, go to the third world where most of the world's women live. No washing machines, no contraceptives, no HVAC, but lots of kids…oh, and by the way, they have to work 12 hours a day in hard physical labor too. Life is tough and procreating is a part of life. Get off your superficial, American, spoiled rotten, entitlement, ADD mentality and grow the F up! That goes for you too PT!
Note to David: you, my friend, are a hero to a whole lot of people out there…including most of the world's REAL women.
Posted by A. Swerdlow on 04/13/2009 at 06:40pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Penelope – Your post is a ridiculous example of over-reacting. You made a comment about your kids on a public forum like Twitter, and somebody shares their opinion with you in a non-threatening (albeit somewhat smug) way and you flip out. Why would you let this D-bag have that much control over you? In trying to make your case for being a strong woman, you are instead showing how much of a raving lunatic you are. Maybe his comment hit too close to home.
Posted by Cynthia on 04/13/2009 at 06:45pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Wow. I am laughing that totally bewildered, slightly-awed, head-shaking laugh. I LOVE the way you astonish me so regularly, Penelope. You are a seriously kick-ass writer. That said, I wonder if you'll regret this post at some point. I'm not suggesting you will, or even that you necessarily should. Really, I'm just wondering.
The cool part is, if you do regret it, I'm pretty sure we'll hear about that, too. Because you say what's so for you. It's bold. Brazen. I totally dig it.
I'm feeling a little sad for David. Because sometimes I say stuff, in the heat of one perspective-lens I'm looking through (maybe one of his kids was just really sick or something and he's super-present with his "loving father" lens right now) that I wouldn't get all mighty about at another time. Maybe that happened for David on Twitter at that moment. If so, it's just a bummer for him the way things played out as a result.
Thanks for modeling this fancy new "transparency" concept in ways way beyond most of our imaginations.
Posted by michelle on 04/13/2009 at 06:46pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I just want to say that you are inspiring! I give you tons of credit to do this and call out someone in this manner. It's beyond perfect. Go you!
Posted by Jessica on 04/13/2009 at 06:47pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Excuse me, are you complaining about someone being mean to you in a public forum? You're the woman who told your readers that your husband didn't like to go down on you and you should have recognized that as a sign the marriage wouldn't work. You're in the game now, baby: how's it feel?
Posted by Greenman2001 on 04/13/2009 at 06:55pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Hey All, I would suggest that anyone that feels for David and thinks he is in the right on this should get on Twitter right now and follow him. I just sent him a word of encouragement and told him that most of us here are on his side.
By the way, Greenman2001 is so RIGHT about PT! Nicely put Greenman!
Posted by A. Swerdlow on 04/13/2009 at 07:03pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Anybody want to give Penelope Trunk a dose of her own medicine? Here's her address and phone number:
1121 Elizabeth St
Madison, WI 53703
phone: 917 853 7772
Posted by Joe on 04/13/2009 at 07:20pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Sweeeet!
Posted by James on 04/14/2009 at 07:04am | permalink | Reply to this comment
I'm not sure what to say about this post. On the one hand, I somewhat agree with your points about being a stay at home mom. It isn't the most fun job in the world and kids are hard. On the other hand, I can't believe how you reacted to this David guy. Obviously what he said really upset you, but writing an entire post about it, listing his information and calling him on the phone was way out of line. You put your personal life out there on Twitter, expect a response and don't get mad when you get one that you don't like. As a blogger, a well-read one at that, you have a lot of power. You can write whatever you want with no editor to tell you what you can and can't do. You took this power way too far with this one. Even if I agree with your points, which to a certain extent I do, I could never enjoy this post knowing how it came to be.
Posted by jojo on 04/13/2009 at 07:30pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Penelope,
You are truly a cunt.
Here's my phone number in case you want to cyber-harass me:
1-800-FECK-YOU
Thanks.
Posted by Feck You on 04/13/2009 at 07:31pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Dear Penelope:
Thank you for your best post ever. I think the anger comes out from others because you are telling a truth that not everyone wants to admit. Thanks for being brave enough to tell it!
Posted by Barbara on 04/13/2009 at 07:50pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Perhaps I am also an "evil" man, but I don't really think his twitter was meant to hurt you. However, your post and public attack on some guy you don't know the first thing about is meant to hurt him. What if this David guy is actually a really legitimately good guy and one silly stray thought he put on Twitter ends up costing him his job or friends?
I actually have also written personal attacks of people on my blog (who have done much worse than write a stupid Twitter comment), but I have usually come to regret it.
Don't bring any more hate into this world than already exists.
Posted by Joel Gross on 04/13/2009 at 08:03pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
YES YES YES…We can love our children and yet not think they are intellectually stimulating!
I love that the people who come to bash everything you ever say are quick to be critical when you strike back. Double standards abound. "Don't bring any more hate into the world…" Good grief. As the mother of boys around the same age as Penelope's, I've never met a boy who cares if he is intellectually stimulating or not, so let's not lose any sleep over the boys reading the tweets!
Posted by Marci on 04/13/2009 at 08:34pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I have to say that this is reaction really undercuts your credibility — both as a parent and as a career coach.
The guy made a mistake. Called you out on something you didn't want to get called out on. Sure. But what kind of overreaction was calling him? Publishing his name. Harassing him?
I don't have anything to say about how you raise your kids. What you do is up to you, and you and only you will have to live with the consequences of your choices. But the career aspect.
Is going nuclear part of the Gen Y advice you'd dispense? Is going off and calling a guy who left a comment the kind of thing you want the next generation to get from you? Is this the kind of behavior you'd like your investors to consider?
This is so far from professional behavior it's mind boggling. You can do what you want as a parent — but as an ostensible business "leader" it's questionable at best, and juvenile at worst. I'd expect this kind of thing from a 13-year-old. You're way too old for this. You should know better.
Posted by Frank on 04/13/2009 at 08:43pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
*STANDING OVATION*
This guy opened himself up to public ridicule the minute he posted a public comment in a 100% public arena, and TO a public figure (and an utterly witless comment at that… I mean, "send your kids to Ohio?!" What a tosser!!). Why shouldn't Penelope be allowed a public response? Why should she ignore a comment directed at her? And as batting back a response to such a complex (and universal) issue in a meagre 140 characters would have been completely inappropriate, then it seems to me her blog was the best forum. This is an issue which affects many, many women who dare to have an opinion online.
The real problem is that this little guy *thought* he could get away with a sly little personal dig. Maybe he usually gets away with this kind of behaviour offline. But his comment is symptomatic of a huge social issue, and he also under-estimated the medium and the recipient of that comment. How unaware can you be? A well-deserved lesson, and a completely justified response.
It is fantastic, inspiring, encouraging and quite frankly a relief to read posts like this. It's a master class in how to deal with trolls, and if it makes one asshole stop and think before levelling a sly below-the-belt dig, then it's a good thing.
Posted by Sarah D on 04/13/2009 at 08:46pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
How old are you Sarah? 10?
Posted by A. Swerdlow on 04/14/2009 at 05:24am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Thank you, Sarah D.! Great comment, I feel the same way.
Posted by anon. on 04/14/2009 at 08:41am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Not sure which I enjoyed more – the actual post or the comments.
Good for you for getting mad, we all need that occasionally. As a Therapist I'm getting sick of people never showing any emotion except those that are socially acceptable – then trying to figure out why they feel so bad. Maybe if we all got a little angry and did something harmless – writing it out on a blog – we'd feel a bit better about the day to day.
:) I am glad you kept off the phone number though.
Posted by bhline on 04/13/2009 at 08:50pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Ahh, she didn't really keep is phone number out, she posted his full name and more than enough address for any of her sheeple to find it.
Posted by not really on 04/14/2009 at 02:29am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Bhline, someone should post your real name and phone…to make sure that if they ever need a therapist they don't end up with someone like you! Terrible advice, terrible insights and worst of all, a very juvenile analysis of the situation…Maybe half of PT's problems originate from the fact that she is listening to her therapist too much…maybe her therapist shares your approach to anger management and problem resolution.
Posted by A. Swerdlow on 04/14/2009 at 05:29am | permalink | Reply to this comment
I posted a follow-up to this post. In short, I feel like her intentions were good as Penelope strives to present an observation society's judgmental nature, specifically of parents, but I think it was handled poorly and that the whole reaction was out of line and over the top. Yes, David was a jerk, but come on – to go to these lengths?
I encourage you all to share your thoughts here as well, I would especially appreciate opinions from a 'motherly' perspective – I'm interested to see if other mothers would consider reacting in this way, and where they stand on the issue.
For the record – I respect Penelope and have been a reader for a while now and I am heavily involved in the Brazen community – also, I in NO WAY question her love for her children and that she is an outstanding mother and supremely successful entrepreneur.
http://www.lifewithoutpants.com/blogging/rule-176-of-being-a-blogger-learn-how-to-take-criticism/
Posted by Matt on 04/13/2009 at 08:56pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I am trying not to judge what I have read here. If I had read your tweet, I would have been sad. I know you don't need me to feel sad for you, but honestly, I just do. I don't think you are a bad mom, so please don't misunderstand what I said above. There is no judging when it comes to that. You just aren't the mom that I would want. If something ever happened to me and my husband re-married, I pray to God he marries a woman who finds the joy in children also. One who focuses on the good and not the challenge.
Yeah, kids are hard sometimes. Kids are annoying sometimes. Kids are not intellectually stimulating sometimes. Having that attitude about children everyday? I just don't get it. My brain does not begin to understand the attitude that children are such a drag even though we love them. Do you not think your kids don't know you feel that way? If it's everyday, then they know it, now matter how hard you try to hide it.
It's one freaking day. You couldn't enjoy ONE day with your children? That one day on your own, without help, was just so boring?
Well, you know what? How do you think your kids felt that day? I'm sure you still at least pretended to be the awesome mom that you are despite being annoyed that you had no Nanny and no ex to help out. I am sure that your kids didn't sense any dissatisfaction in you at all.
I am not the perfect mom. I fail daily. I yell when I don't mean to sometimes. I don't give 100% attention when my 6-year-old is telling me a story because I am thinking about something else. I forget to brush teeth every now and then. I make mac and cheese FROM.THE.BOX (gasp) on days that have been crazy. You know what though, those days are not everyday. Most days, I LOVE being home with my kids. I find such joy in their happiness. To combat the craziness of being home alone, with no adults to talk to, we do a lot of things out of the house.
One day I just realized that when my children grew up, I wanted them to be able to tell their friends, spouses, children, or whomever, that they had such an awesome childhood and they felt like they took the number one spot on our list of what was important. They are human beings and will always take top priority. If I have to juggle a gazillion things to do that, I will. I make time for myself and make sure it's enough that I feel fulfilled. My husband and I work hard and make time for each other and that we are happy. If making sure they feel like they are number one makes me feel like I am number two sometimes, then I will gladly do it.
When did this thinking start that we had to always make sure our needs were being met before everyone else? Seems kind of selfish to me and to be honest, it doesn't seem to be working. Men, women, and children seem more unhappy today then ever before.
Posted by Kellie on 04/13/2009 at 09:07pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Kellie–I love what you wrote in your comment. Most of the time, I'm very snarky when I write. I totally understood the nature of this post—because I've had odd comments come at me on Twitter and I've over-reacted quickly. Sometimes it's just PMS for me.
However, as much as I joke, I find that in all seriousness that CHILDREN are not boring…it's usually the parents. No, I don't want to talk or blog about diapers, sippy cups or Johnny's day at school. I want to share those times with my children outside the "social networking" world. And I do. I actually find my children far more interesting than adults.
Such is why I stopped dating many months ago–my eight year old holds my interest far longer than most of the men I met.
I agree with you–but I don't think this post was ABOUT her children so much as it was about someone making an assumption about her parenting. Lots of people feel the right to "Assume" on Twitter. I'd have probably over reacted as well.
Great reply, though.
Posted by TheDailyBlonde on 04/13/2009 at 09:52pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Great post Kellie! Usually, kids that have had this kind of upbringing continue the pattern with their own kids. If you read between the lines, you can see allot of hurt, insecurities and immaturity in PT. I'm no shrink, but I would bet allot of money that her parents (I'm assuming she had parents and was not an orphan) did not brandish her with a whole lot of love. The mix of anger, sexual dysfunction and apathy toward her own offspring are textbook examples of a crappy childhood experience. If you read her posts, she talks about how she needs alcohol to deal with her parents…
If I read her posts correctly, she has a house manager, a nanny and God knows who else helping her run her household and raise her kids. This is a luxury that most working moms can't afford and I would dare say would not want. It's amazing to me that even with so many buffers designed to prevent her from doing the typical Mom "thing", she still complains about this function. Unbelievable. No one probably knows what led to her divorce, but let me tell you something, I would say that 99% of the "good men" out there wouldn't touch her with a 10 foot pole. I just feel bad for her kids. I also repeat David's insinuation that perhaps the kids would be better off in the long run somewhere else…where they are cherished, given attention and loved.
Posted by A. Swerdlow on 04/14/2009 at 05:20am | permalink | Reply to this comment
I got off on a tangent. I meant to include my comment about the David situation. I don't think he was that far out of line. Have you never made a comment to a statement you thought was inappropriate or preposterous? Everyone has.
To go so far as to call him and then call his house? Um, that seems a little unstable. Who does that?
Posted by Kellie on 04/13/2009 at 09:10pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Ok…this is one of the best blog posts I've ever read. It's sobering to hear other mom's say some of the things I feel everyday. I've been a stay at home mom for about 6 months now, and already I have my days when I feel like "screw it, I'm getting out of here."
And kudos to your response to Mr David! That was brilliant. I'm sure he's regretting ever responding in such a distasteful manner.
Posted by Tamika on 04/13/2009 at 09:21pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I think the main problem is that there's too many of these David's in the world. People that are way too uptight and emotionally sensitive. Penelope's comment about guys not checking their emails via Blackberries when they're getting blowjobs is classic!!!
Posted by Adam on 04/13/2009 at 09:24pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Adam,
If you think her Blackberry line is classic, witty, clever or intelligent in any possible light, then you my friend have been reading way too many blogs and not enough of anything else to know the difference. This sounds like a 15 year old's diary entry after having been spurned by the Varsity football player in high school. Just for the fun of it, I went back and read allot of her Tweets…the same pattern appears again and again. For a 42 year old woman, she acts, writes and child rears a lot more like a grumpy, hormone imbalanced teenager than a well balanced, grounded and mature middle-aged woman.
Posted by A. Swerdlow on 04/14/2009 at 05:04am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Matt, no, as a mom, no way would I even consider responding like PT did. I am trying to set a good example for my children. I do think before I react to a situation. No, I'm not perfect, and I make mistakes. But in this instance, Penelope obviously had time to think about what she was doing (as she googled his name for his number, dialed work, dialed home, wrote this post, edited it). This was definitely a childish, immature response. . . certainly not something I would do as a parent. Sure, I've been offended, insulted before. But I try to show my children how to react in a way that allows them to hold their heads up high the next day.
Posted by Shannon on 04/13/2009 at 09:26pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Shannon – I would love your input on my blog. Some commenters are claiming that you can't understand her reaction unless you are a mother yourself. In my opinion, the reaction has nothing to do with being a mom, it is a moral and ethical decision made by a human being…Interested to hear more of your thoughts.
Posted by Matt on 04/13/2009 at 09:32pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Penelope, I'm such a fan-girl! Couldn't have said it better meh-self!
Posted by Kandeezie on 04/13/2009 at 10:02pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
It could be worse: someone got the cops called on her for a Tweet.
http://vomitcomit.wordpress.com/2009/01/04/stoplinking/
Posted by Alison Cummins on 04/13/2009 at 10:29pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
This vomitcomit tweet and her corresponding blog confirm that people (PT included) are idiots online.
Apparently, Vomitcomit's selling point is her liberal use of the F word, with no detracting edits. But she actually used the phrase "my f*cking daughter" to describe her child. F*CKING DAUGHTER. Ouch.
We constantly remind Gen Y that their online transparency can get them in trouble. Yet, we don't even think of the next generation and how what we do now can affect them long into the future. What's going to happen when they come across all our emotional outlets, every miniscule one of them?
PT's little outburst is out there for good. She can edit it, even delete it, but enough people have linked to it and blogged on it further that she can never take back the words.
Some things are best left to be talked over with a shrink. Or better yet, how about a prayer?
Posted by avant garde designer on 04/14/2009 at 07:53am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Meeeooowww!!!
I enjoyed this post…
Posted by Jun on 04/13/2009 at 10:30pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
First Thought: This is awesome. Penelope, you rock my world.
Second Thought: Dear… god… I would never want to piss this woman off.
Third Thought: Oh, shit… I’ve been “that guy” before… (for context you can read and then read ).
I think many of us at some point in our lives have pulled a David Dellifield.
Anyway, I can’t relate to being a parent, but your post does bring up some thoughts. I’m just starting out in the corporate world, but the way my career is progressing I doubt I’ll ever be a stay-at-home dad. In addition, the women I’m attracted to are not the stay-at-home types either.
So based on these variables, my relationships will closely resemble that of a “commuter couple” (as described in Microtrends by Mark Penn). This will lead to a sort of “commuter marriage”. Finally “commuter parents”, which means a pretty shitty childhood for any little Daniels that’ll be running around. My boss hasn’t seen his kids in three weeks, and he’s part of the C-Suite in the division I work in.
I don’t want kids. I know that will probably change as I get older… Still, I’m probably going to end up being one of those couples that hire a nanny to raise their kids. That’s not the childhood I grew up in, but I feel it may become a growing trend within my generation.
Posted by Daniel on 04/13/2009 at 10:34pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Furthermore, I will also be googling how to properly use links in comments…
Posted by Daniel on 04/13/2009 at 10:40pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Haha. This totally saved your previous comment! Yes, I remember the beating you took on Brazen Careerist. I, for one, did not think it was THAT bad and I felt bad when everyone laid it out on you. But I hope it was a learning experience and you handled all the criticism well.
Good luck!
Posted by Irina I on 04/14/2009 at 12:36am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Haha, thanks Irina! I appreciate the comment. It was definitely a learning experience. It's funny how my apology is actually the most popular post on the blog…
Posted by Daniel on 2009-04-15 22:55:36 | (Comments wont nest below this level)
P-
I am not a mom yet, but I definitely find comfort in your motherhood blogs; I dread motherhood, and I dread it for the very reasons you talk about. I heard this on NPR the other day, and I think you will enjoy it if you didn't catch it already.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=102880681">True Mom Confessions
Posted by FlexieB on 04/13/2009 at 11:12pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Then please don't ever become a Mom.
Posted by James on 04/14/2009 at 07:01am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Yes, why would you become a mother if you already "dread" it? The world would be a better place if people who did not want to be parents would simply not become parents.
Posted by Sarah on 04/18/2009 at 09:54pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Wow, pretty immature Penelope. So what, David called you a mean name on Twitter. Grow up, don't write some revenge blog post.
Posted by john demp on 04/13/2009 at 11:20pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
This weekend I saw the funniest headline on a tabloid. It went something like this:
Brad Pitt is leaving Angelina and says he's taking the kids with him!
Posted by Janet Meiners Thaeler on 04/13/2009 at 11:40pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Really interesting post – at first I thought calling him sounded totally nutty but then I asked myself why. It's so odd the standards we have for online vs offline behavior, and maybe your posts points to a new era of breaking them down. In "real life" it would be totally reasonable to call someone who was rude to you at a dinner party, what's the difference on twitter?
It's odd that people are calling your behavior childish and immature but when you read the post closely you didn't do anything childish at all. You stood up for yourself, and responded to this guy. You didn't write about he is ugly or dumb or something like that. You responded to what he wrote to you, and who knows what you'd REALLY say but your planned phone call was just a response not "burn in hell MFer!". Yes you did call him an asshole, which I think is totally reasonable.
Posted by Laura on 04/14/2009 at 12:25am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Too many thoughts, so little time:
(1) First of all, I love how this post ended up being about two things – society's expecations of mothers' blind appreciation of motherhood and vilifying someone in a public forum.
(2) To all the commenters who are surprised that Penelope had such a "thin skin" and reaction "in such a way" to his tweet. It's not about his tweet! He was just the catalyst to set her on fire. This is about years of being fed up with being treated this way (as if she needs to enjoy every given moment with her kids like it is some kind of blessing ALL THE TIME) and finally speaking up. Dave's tweet is what got her moving and motivated to write this post. It is not that she was so offended and hurt by it, but more that it was the last straw of the tension that has been building up.
(3) Although I agree with some users that the "punishment" was somewhat excessive, this is not the end of him. I mean, yeah, it sucks that this post is the first Google search result for his name, but there a number of ways to fix your brand online. For example, he could write a blog post explaining his side of the story, appear very level-headed in the post, etc. And I am sure Penelope would not mind linking to it.
(4) And even though she wrote so unfavorably about him, I still do not dislike him and I do not have any hatred of him. I think he just made one not-so-careful comment, but he made it to the wrong person at the wrong time. And now, he unfortunately has to face the consequences.
(4) On the issue of "stalking" – it is a fine line in this case, but it does not really seem like stalking to me here. I mean, if you engage in an interaction with another Twitter user, you have engaged in an interaction! So you can only expect for that interaction to "transfer" to the real world, especially if what you say (or comment) hits so close to home.
(5) This guy's comment was pretty snarky, too. He was not just plainly criticizing. He was Tweeting snarkily. Bad form. Yes, Penelope's response had about 100x more snark, but it was not completely unwarranted.
In all, I think this post generated a lot of discussion and that is great. As for Dave D., I suggest he post something as a response to fix his online image. I am sure he will be ok in the end.
Posted by Irina I on 04/14/2009 at 12:33am | permalink | Reply to this comment
"It's not about his tweet! He was just the catalyst to set her on fire. This is about years of being fed up with being treated this way (as if she needs to enjoy every given moment with her kids like it is some kind of blessing ALL THE TIME) and finally speaking up. "
The title of the post included the tweeters name and home city.
If it wasn't about him, then PT is a poor writer.
I really find this "but you can't deny she has a point" crap resulting. First of all, there is not shortage of commentary about how frustrating it is to be a stay-at-home-parent, so this notion that we need a "brave" person like PT to give voice to these frustrations is ludicrous.
Second, the ends don't justify the means. The US might be need to fight drug cartels from Mexico. But nuking Mexico City would be a completly unjust response, that could not be justified by claiming that it was designed to start a much-needed conversation about the drug cartels.
Posted by John McG on 04/15/2009 at 10:27am | permalink | Reply to this comment
That was very cool.
Posted by Rob Gunther on 04/14/2009 at 01:27am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Penelope:
Interesting post!
Having grown up in small town India, I have learnt one thing: when you see a pile of horse or cow dung, sidestep it; definitely don't hover over it to confirm if it is dung by smelling or touching it. :-)
Likewise on the web. Which is nothing more than a small-ish town. How? People from small towns barely raise their heads above the parapet. Likewise the internets people who think the world really cares about tools du jour the way they do.
But yes, every idiot we encounter is a potential – and potentially explosively entertaining – blog post. By leaving the number out, you have done a good thing, to protect yourself against legal ramifications of the undesirable kind.
That said, I agree on the children bit of this post. As I say often, I like kids only on a returnable basis. I am happy to watch over kids of friends, entertain them, feed them, water them, read to them, answer tough questions, but after a few hours, I want them to go back to their own homes. I am many kids' favourite aunt because when I am with them, I am 100% with them. But I do like peace and quiet in my life in general.
Posted by Shefaly on 04/14/2009 at 02:22am | permalink | Reply to this comment
I've been sitting here reading all of this and the one thing that stands out to me is why Penelope just couldn't let his comment go? He made a comment, so what? I don't understand the out of control reaction.
Then, as I sat reading and thinking some more, I realized that I haven't ever read anything positive by Penelope about spending any time with her kids at all. There don't seem to be many happy mom moments happening in Penelope's world even though most all of the drudge stuff is taken care of by paid help.
It's too bad really. I think Penelope has a good brain and could figure out a way to enjoy being around her kids if she put some effort into it. Just hanging together with them doing something that amuses them and you being in the vicinity doing something that amuses you, then finding intersecting points to enjoy each other along the way is a great way to spend time together. You just need to find a rhythm that suits you all. It's a lot of trial and error to get to that point, but you need to spend enough time together to make that happen. You can't just walk in, have all the hired help walk out and expect magic.
I'm a mom. I get it. I've been through it all; entrepreneurship, stay at home mom, divorced with three jobs mom, single mom with full time job, one start up rolling out this month and another in the works…… Sure, it can be tough, but it's a gift for everyone when you make the effort to find the flow that works to be with your kids and enjoy it while all of you are still getting your needs met.
Getting back to my first point; Penelope was frustrated and vented. David commented. Big deal. Move on….
Posted by cindy on 04/14/2009 at 02:40am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Surprisingly, my last post was abt the same thing. Taking care of a kid is more than a 24×7 job. There's no break. No respite. At the end of the day, you just want to crash and wish it would end.
But every once in a while, when the little kid looks straight into your eyes and gives an all out smile…every bit of that effort becomes worthwhile.
Posted by Richa on 04/14/2009 at 03:11am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Couldn't read all these comments. Jumped to Cindy's just above, which made most sense. I too was wondering why Penelope rarely talks positively about her time with her kids. Probably not an accurate picture of how she feels, but essential to the character she plays here: angry, sexy, dead honest single mom. Emphasis on plays, hopefully not is.
Posted by Elliot Tow on 04/14/2009 at 06:05am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Hahaha! I loved this one! Spot on, I would say.
Most men ARE ass*&#@s! We spend about 15 minutes a day with children (not all of us, so don't the rest of you get upset!) and we find kids engaging, fun, hilarious..and if they're smart & intelligent, just like us!
We don't realize that the kids have been saving up that interesting bit for when "Dad comes home".
Once those 15 minutes are done, we think we've done our bit, and then it's either back to the blackberry or the TV or both!
Even today, it amazes me that we don't realize how demanding it is for a woman to manage a home and children. ESPECIALLY a woman who has a few years (months even) of worklife behind her. To give up that kind of satisfaction and then take over the mind-numbing day after day boring routine of managing a home is way too difficult. That's why most men stay out of home!
I realized this when my wife travelled and I stayed back home for 5 days. I was beat by 2 pm! And my kids weren't even back from school yet! The multi-tasking required to get just 2 children off to school on time is mind-boggling. Give me my super stressfuljob at work any time. At least I can good off there!
Glad you wrote this one!
Posted by Gurprriet Siingh on 04/14/2009 at 06:17am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Penelope, neither you nor Dave understand Twitter.
Would you yell your vent out in the middle of the street at the top of your lungs in NY? No, you'd be a nutso.
Twitter in 'protected mode' with 12 followers who are your friends is where you can vent.
Twitter where you have 1200+ followers is where you should promote your blog. EVERY TWEET IS A PRESS RELEASE. Please read this again.
It really irks me how folks who have been on the 'net for awhile like you and my other friends come upon a 'new hotness' like Twitter and forget the lessons they learned in email, chat, and especially Usenet. You should all know better.
Pretend that Twitter in open mode is a USENET newsgroup, alt.sms.open.soapbox.freaks.and.fools.out.on.the.street. Now 'Tweet' accordingly.
What I would ask is, do your kids need to be in your blog? Don't they deserve more privacy? Why open your parenting to the criticisms of strangers who have no context nor any business telling you how to parent??? And why would you make a public micro-blog post with so little context?? It's TROLLFEED.
Take my word for it: Twitter is the press release for your blog. NOT a place to vent. Unless you make it so.
-Drunken Economist, ex-ex-ex blogger, drive by commenter, 'net curmudgeon at age 40, keep your kids off my lawn.
Posted by Drunken Economist on 04/14/2009 at 06:28am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Now there's a guy (gal?) who gets it. Twitter as a press release. Interesting concept.
Posted by Ron Graham on 04/14/2009 at 07:02pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
If the orginal twitter had been from a Mr P instead of a Ms P we would not be having this interesting convo …. there would have just been a few 'hear hears' from the old boys club.
And then the faint rumble of NOTHING.
It's a gender thing plain and simple. Cheers le
Posted by le on 04/14/2009 at 06:52am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Very true le. I think Penelope gave this post much thought before she hit the publish button. The reaction to this post in this and other comment sections has been much more enlightening to me than the post itself. There's a part of me that tells me Penelope knew ahead of time how this drama was going to play out for the most part ahead of time.
Posted by Mark W. on 04/14/2009 at 09:00am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Are you effing kidding me?
If a man worked full time, and had a SAHM taking care of the kids, and was responsible for taking care of them for ONE DAY, and felt the need to tweet and complain about it, he would be the biggest jerk in the world.
And if he later admitted he forgot his children's coats, but remembered his, because he has the type of mind that needs to think about more interesting things !??
Yeah, I'm sure that would meet with complete approval.
Give me a break.
Posted by John McG on 04/15/2009 at 10:31am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Everyone needs to calm down. It's obvious that it's PT's time of the month and she's forgotten to take her meds.
She makes a controversial comment in a public way then can't handle it when someone disagrees.
PT you're in for a rough ride cause wait till your kids are old enough to disagree with you.
The liberal BS here is astonishing. Really PT, take some responsibility that what you posted was a bit controversial and by doing that you open yourself up to criticism.
You're already divorced – have you ever thought what your kids would tweet if they could?
"Gee another day, another bed, my good toys are at my dads. Ugh – I wish she would get off the computer."
Or how about. "Why is it I have to bounce from house to house, I'm the kid, I didn't ask for this."
Or maybe "They just don't get it – they think everything is fine & it's not."
Instead of looking for "Intellectual Stimulation" all the time why not figure out how to be a better "single" parent than you're being right now.
Posted by James on 04/14/2009 at 07:00am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Really? Time of the month? Forgotten to take her meds? If you're going to be a misogynistic asshole, at least try to be original and interesting when making your insults.
Posted by Sara on 04/16/2009 at 10:11am | permalink | Reply to this comment
I can understand how trying to play with/occupy kids for a whole day can be hard work/get boring/get repetitive. But don't you think it's a little pretentious to be saying, 'Oh, I need stimulation from intellectuals!' Turn on the TV and pick up a FRICKING BOOK. Or, even better — read to your kids. Two birds, one stone. And yes, there are books your kids will enjoy that you will enjoy too.
If you're looking for further intellectual stimulation for you and the kids, trust me, there are loads of things your kids don't know. Teach them. Teaching is hard work, communicating is hard work, and it requires careful thought, improvisation, tackling problems from multiple perspectives. That should occupy your mind, right?
Also, if you go out hiking with your kids, get yourself a jacket and then don't get your kids jackets: really, what are you doing? Do you understand your role in this situation? I also have doubts that an 'intellectual' could be so vacant. Having said that, I do appreciate the Einstein argument of complete absentmindness. I just doubt it in this context. I tend to suspect self-absorption instead.
Separate issue: I can't believe you at any stage posted the guy's phone number on here. Having said that, if he published it somewhere openly online (e.g. his twitter profile) then I guess he shouldn't mind. But, seriously, for a 10-word twitter comment, how psychotically overboard can you react?
Incidentally, if you get up in arms about this blog comment (probably not, given the size of this thread), feel free to COMMENT BACK. Don't call me, publicly shame me (beyond responding to my comment in similar fashion), or publish or distribute my personal details, mkay?
Posted by David M on 04/14/2009 at 07:16am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Fantastic post, one of the best things I'll read this year.
Posted by Bryan Adams on 04/14/2009 at 07:38am | permalink | Reply to this comment
My dad was fond of saying, "If you have children, you will have pain. If you don't have children, you will have pain."
I don't have kids. But my mom stayed at home and she worked her @ss off.
Someday I hope someone will write an in-depth story about the American culture of judgmentalism.
Posted by Laura on 04/14/2009 at 07:39am | permalink | Reply to this comment
This from a woman who recently called herself an artist? Oh, and her writing is "poetic". For you unsophisticated dolts, a poetic post contains the word "asshole" how many times? (Answer: Three. Four would be one too many.)
I'm sure David appreciates you not including his phone number. It took me one whole search to find it, and by that time, my seething rage against him had subsided.
Posted by Jake on 04/14/2009 at 07:53am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Your post was over the top inappropriate on so many levels. You come across in your bashing of David D. as petty, childish, a bully, and a tad bit emotionally unstable with an incredible ego.
You put yourself out there on Twitter with >10K+ followers. You post provocative tweets and blogs about blow jobs, sex, flirting, maybe/maybe not boyfriends, travelling, and then throw in how mind-numbing spending a couple of days at home with your kids is for you, and then you get bent out of shape by David's tweet, and resort to stalking and writing a long blog about how much you HATE him?! I have read worse comments on your blog. Why so defensive?
Your overreaction is outrageously immature and vindictive.
No one (including David. D in his tweet) is saying children are easy and don't drive their parents crazy from time to time. I also do not think David nor anyone else wrote you should be home with your kids INSTEAD OF pursuing your career aspirations. Put it in context and consider what impression of yourself you put out there with your blogs and tweets.
From all your posts, it is clear you have a demanding weekly work schedule involving lots of travel and a balancing act that requires a nanny, a house manager and a very involved father. That is wonderful…good for you for figuring out how to make it work!
However, when you tweet that the ONE day you are hanging out with your kids because DAD and the nanny are not available, that it is a bore because your children are not intellectually stimulating, and as a context to all of this, you rarely mention your kids or child raising in any posts or tweets in a positive light, it is not surprising that this would get a reaction from some of your 10K followers?
..why are you surprised by that, is it not in fact what you were trying to do…provoke?
If you wanted to write a fantastic blog about how challenging parenting is compared to working (the second half of your post), this would have been an extremely interesting and well-received blog, but sprinkling in how much you HATE this random guy and what an ass he is, just makes you look overemotional, petty, and a bully. I thought you prided yourself on being tough?
As a single mother with a child on the spectrum in the same age range as your two children, working in a demanding job, and also trying to hold it all together,…I get what you are saying about how difficult parenting is.
Despite that, I also know that I could not relate to your tweet, because after having finished a demanding few weeks of biz trips in different countries practically every week, I know how much I looked forward to spring break and spending the past week hanging out with my son, and how much I enjoyed my time with him, and more importantly, how much he NEEDED that time with his mom. It does not mean that there are not moments that are truly difficult and suck…but all in all it was really fun. Just like any job, parenthood has its good times and bad times.
Even male CEOs who would tweet that they find their limited free time with their kids to be boring would get a negative reaction from some people, especially if this is all they had to say on the subject of parenthood.
Nobody is saying, Penelope, don't have a career, you need to be a stay at home mom, you need to LOVE being with the kids all the time.
However, your posts do give me the impression that you probably still need to figure out how to atleast enjoy and find satisfaction in the one selfless, extremely challenging, tough job you did sign up for,… that cannot be outsourced (regardless of whether or not you are working ) …being mom to your boys.
Posted by ysl on 04/14/2009 at 08:21am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Unfortunately the only feelings women are allowed to own are the ones men tell them they can.
Thanks for being honest.
Posted by 5chw4r7z on 04/14/2009 at 08:26am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Again, I have to ask, are you effing kidding me?
Posted by John McG on 04/15/2009 at 10:38am | permalink | Reply to this comment
You are 100% and beyond awesome, PT. You say the things people think but don't say. You make those of us who don't have children feel okay about it, especially in a world where people generally attribute one of three things to a married couple without kids: selfishness, tragic infertility or a non-existent sex life. I inevitably feel judged negatively when people learn I don't have children. Nobody cares if you do or don't eat peanut butter, but everybody cares if you do or don't have children. And then once you do, they stand in judgment. You go girl. I hope DD rues the day he took you on.
Posted by Blondie on 04/14/2009 at 09:13am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Wow. You. Are. My. Hero. This was one of my favorite posts ever. You essentially just took a social media hit out on the guy. I love how you always tell truth to power, and don't fall into the trap of saying what women are expected to say. Yes, your children are the most important thing in your life. Yes, you love them more than anything. That's understood. Thanks for saying what we all know – that staying at home with kids does NOT provide the same type of intellectual stimulation as being with adults, and is not always fulfilling. If it were complete bliss all the time, you wouldn't have movies about bored 1950s housewives like "Revolutionary Road" being made!
Posted by Meredith on 04/14/2009 at 09:13am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Penelope responded to my follow up here: Encourage you all to read and share your thoughts:
http://www.lifewithoutpants.com/blogging/rule-176-of-being-a-blogger-learn-how-to-take-criticism/
Posted by Matt Cheuvront on 04/14/2009 at 09:15am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Girl, you are on fire. I love this post & I'm one of those women who's not had children & thought that I'd want to be home with them all day. I quickly realize how boring it might get. U rock.
Posted by UltraD on 04/14/2009 at 09:17am | permalink | Reply to this comment
So please don't become a mom. Better still get your tubes tied.
Posted by James on 04/14/2009 at 09:33am | permalink |