I have hated Tim Ferriss for a long time. I have hated him since we both had editors at Crown Publishing who sat next to each other and I heard how difficult he is.
I didn't blog about it because first of all, I'm sure the buzz about me is that I'm difficult, too. And also, his book, The 4-Hour Workweek, was a bestseller and mine wasn't. So I figured people would say that I'm jealous. And really, what author is not jealous sometimes? I mean, every author wants to write a bestseller.
But at this point, two years later, my hatred goes way beyond jealousy. My hatred is more selfless than that. And while I do understand that Tim is great at accelerated learning, the time management tips I have learned from him stem from the energy I have spent hating him:
1. Don’t hang out with people who don’t respect your time
This all started at SXSW conference in 2007, right before Tim's book came out, when he was promoting the hell out of it to bloggers. Of course, this was not a bad idea, and to be fair, Tim was brilliant to start this book marketing trend. But that is beside the point. He approached me after my panel and said, "Can I get you coffee? I'd love to talk with you."
I said, "Uh. No. I have plans."
And he asked who with.
I wasn't really sure. I knew there were cool people to hang out with after my panel, though, and I knew he wasn't one of them. I gave a vague answer.
He said he was also meeting three people, and he name-dropped them. I can't remember who they were. But they were fun, interesting, and I wanted to have coffee with them. So I said okay.
Then Tim couldn't find them and I had coffee with only Tim.
Then I realized this was his strategy all along.
I told myself not to be pissy. I told myself bait-and-switch is the oldest sales tool in the world, and it's my fault for falling for it.
I even wrote a blog post that included his book.
2. Cut to the chase: Tell people who are full of sh*t that they're full of sh*t
When his book came out, there were vacuous, annoying comments all over my blog directing people to his book. Like, "The topic of priorities is an interesting one. I like how Tim Ferris handles that in his new book,blah blah" and then there's a link to the book.
At this point I knew Tim, sort of. And I called him on his phone and told him to tell his employees to stop spamming my blog.
First he implied it was his fan base and he had little control.
I said that I thought he was full of sh*t.
He said he'd make sure there were no more comments like that on my blog.
3. Self-centered people are more likely to waste your time
Really, when I found he was spamming my site, I didn't call him first. First, I emailed him. And I got some sort of crazy response about how he is only checking email twice a day and then instructions on what to do.
I emailed him back to tell him that I do not want automatic emails from him every time I try to contact him.
Which generated another, identical response about how he doesn't check mail.
So I called him to tell him that he is generating spam back to me to tell me about his email checking and I don't care. If he wants to check twice a day, fine, but don't clog my in box with emails about it.
He said he'd take me off his list.
I am STILL getting this sort of spam from him. But the scope has widened. For example, now, he has commented on my blog and he forgot to say that he doesn't want to be alerted to new comments. So every time there's a comment, he spams everyone in the comments string, telling them that he doesn't answer his email.
It's insane. I cannot believe how many automated announcements I receive saying that Tim does not have a Blackberry. (Yes, the email really says that.) What if we all sent automated emails like that? Email would be totally nonfunctional. What if Tim just shut up about his email and if he thinks its fine to answer twice a day, then he should do that? And not spam everyone about it.
4. Productivity is about meeting your goals, not getting out of doing work
The week that Tim actually works a four-hour work week will be a cold week in hell. Tim got to where he is by being an insanely hard worker. I don't know anyone who worked harder at promoting a book than he did. But the thing is, he didn't call it work. Somehow, sliming me into having coffee with him to talk about his book is not work.
Fine. But then his four-hour work week is merely semantic. Because everything Tim does he turns into what the rest of us would call work, and he calls it not-work. For example, tango. If you want to be world-record holder, it's work. It's your job to be special at dancing the tango. That's your big goal that you're working toward. How you earn money is probably just a day job. So most weeks Tim probably has a 100-hour workweek. It's just that he's doing things he likes, so he lies to you and says he only works four hours. He defines work only as doing what you don't like.
It's childish. It's a childish, semantic game. And it reminds me of him winning the Chinese National Kickboxing Championships by leveraging a little-known rule that people are disqualified if they stop outside the box. So he pushed each of his opponents outside the box to win.
He is winning the I-work-less-than-you game with a similarly questionable method: semantics.
5. Time management is about making time to connect with people
The idea of time management only matters in relation to how important the stuff is that's competing for your time. The stuff that makes time management the most difficult is relationships. Which Tim does not excel in.
Fine. Not everyone has to be good at making real connections.
But Tim runs around telling people who have lots of relationships competing for their time how to think about work/not work, forgetting that in the real world, where people are not assholes, time management is not an equation or a semantic game because relationships really matter. And figuring out how to judge time in terms of competing values is the hardest thing of all.
Tim is all about time management for achievement and winning. But there are not trophies or measurements for relationships. There is only that feeling that someone is kind. And good. And truly connected.
And Tim is not.


Awesome.
Posted by david on 01/08/2009 at 11:06am | permalink | Reply to this comment
I have to agree with David on this, they were some awesome tips. I have always struggled with managing my time and over the years I have read a lot of time management lists and articles online, but this one trumps them all! I love how you lay down the law, you just picked up another reader.
Posted by Jobeth Quigley on 04/20/2009 at 06:24pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I am going to have to agree to agree with both com mentors. Was a good way to spend the last 15 minutes, I wish I could think up a good pun for all this
Posted by Sam on 2009-06-22 03:46:51 | (Comments wont nest below this level)
First, do you think Tim will take credit for the time management skills you developed through your dislike of him? Second, I might beg to differ about not having measures for relationships…having relationships (unless you're using the term loosely) is the measure. Sure you can fake it, but in the end if you don't make meaningful connections with people, you won't have any relationships.
Posted by Shawn on 01/08/2009 at 11:20am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Measure for relationships: Facebook.
Just kidding.
Great post!
Posted by K.Rae on 01/08/2009 at 11:24am | permalink | Reply to this comment
FINALLY! Someone who just comes out and says it! I facilitate a roundtable of CEOs and as soon as they read the part about the kickboxing – they said "trash it"..that's no way to do business for the long term.
Had a lawyer tell me that it was "ingenious" on how to work around the rules….go figure!
Thank you for your comment. And, I truly LOVE Penelope's post…finally, someone has said it out loud and said it very well!
Posted by Maria Elena Duron on 01/08/2009 at 06:16pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I read Tim's book and I could net get it out of my home fast enough. He lost me where he was describing how he
cheatedused a loophole in the rules to win at kickboxing.Posted by Doug Ransom on 01/08/2009 at 11:27am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Actually, this just shows he had a better understanding of the competition than did his opponents. If his opponents were so great, then they should be able to stop some amateur from pushing them around. Not being able to do so only speaks to their lack of skill. A champion fighter would not make excuses, but would instead figure out a way to beat Tim's pushing tactic.
Remember when Indiana Jones shot the guy with the swords? Same deal – Indy was just plain smarter.
Posted by Scott on 05/09/2009 at 08:54pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Good for you. I need to stick up for myself more often and I'm even more inspired now. I was thinking about reading his book but now I'm having second thoughts. It sounded too good to be true anyway.
Posted by Bea on 01/08/2009 at 11:32am | permalink | Reply to this comment
To not read the book because of someone else's smearing is to do yourself a disservice. Like it or not, at least give it a chance to stand on it's own two legs.
Personally, that book energized me in a way no book has before. I admire Tim's approach to a lot of different things (some stuff I don't agree with, he has a sort of amoral penchant at times). I found his theory on simplification of one's life ideal and completely do-able.
I don't think he's tried to pass himself off as a GREAT guy, (he lambasted himself over outsourcing his dating life) but this article doesn't do him justice.
To be honest lady, Tim Ferriss is the ONLY REASON I FOUND YOU.
Hater.
Posted by Ranier on 03/06/2010 at 03:08am | permalink | Reply to this comment
I'm highly suspicious of all highly successful people. There is one good way to get there and a million awful, cheap, dirty, lazy, and evil ways of doing it. It actually surprising to see how many go the good route. (I'm not saying Tim did, because it doesn't sound like he did.)
About relationships: They are uber-taxing on time and energy… but mostly energy… which equates to time. Some people are really good at influencing people without really having a relationship with them (i.e. Hitler). No one will argue that such individuals' influence is not far-reaching; the question is whether it's worthy.
The other disturbing thing is that some people are so happy even when they're being so bad. It gives being good a bad flavor. I really hate people like that.
Posted by Ryan on 01/08/2009 at 11:32am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Hitler had an entire country licking their wounds from WWI desparately seeking someone, anyone to bring them back to glory. He played the weakness Germans felt and promised a better life. His relationship was with their wishes.
Posted by Robert MacEwan on 08/31/2009 at 05:42pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
It's an attitude like this that kept me in low paying hard labor jobs for far too many years. Int his case, my parents were dead wrong.
Hard work does not necessarily equal success.
Smart work does. And not paying attention to the naysayers.
It has taken me all 50 years of my life so far to finally realize that all the people who would tell me things like – you can't do that, or that's not the way things are done – were full of crap and interested in only one thing; keeping me down to make their lack of satisfaction with their own life more bearable.
If Tim's a scammer, shame on him. But his ideas are sound.
Posted by Stephen J. Ardent on 11/08/2009 at 12:37pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I don't know Tim or read his blog. However I am looking forward to seeing a comment from him on this post – if he decides to do so. Qualities that you possess Penelope that I love and shine through in your writing are transparency and the ability to be genuine and honest with your feelings. Evidently Tim does not possess those qualities. I have a feeling this post may easily exceed 150 comments.
Posted by Mark W. on 01/08/2009 at 11:33am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Controversial post – I love it! :)
Posted by Pipps on 01/08/2009 at 11:36am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Your comment is SPOT ON! I was scrolling down to leave the same comment when I saw yours!
Posted by Nik on 01/02/2010 at 09:03pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Hey remember that time you started a startup that wasn't really a startup but just another embarrassing way for you to compensate how massively insecure you are about yourself? You know, much in the same way you have to graphically discuss your sex and personal life because you feel like nobody will listen if you're just "you"?
I learned a lot from that too.
Posted by Andy on 01/08/2009 at 11:37am | permalink | Reply to this comment
The best comment on this site.
Posted by BB on 10/13/2009 at 11:38pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Your comment is SPOT ON! I was scrolling down to leave the same comment when I saw yours!
Posted by Nik on 01/02/2010 at 09:07pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Agreed!
Posted by gocre8 printing on 01/09/2010 at 04:12pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
At first I thought this would be a headline-grabbing bait-and-switch about how you really DO love Tim Ferris, but now I'm thinking not.
You know who he reminds me of (just from this column and the About page you linked to first)? My exBIL, who left his wife of 7 years and their three children (ages 5, 3, and 1) last year.
Clinical diagnosis? Narcissism.
Posted by Jane on 01/08/2009 at 11:38am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Like possibly most people who got something out of Tim's book, I'm really not bothered what kind of a guy he is personally. Most books these days have ideas that work and others that either don't, or not for oneself, including Tim's book and your book. His ideas have been pretty thoroughly argued against by people who disagreed with them already, but his personality is not really relevant to that process. Priests need good personalities for their brands, career advisors much less so.
Having said that, cult-ish leaders who inspire naively slavish followers generally do have personality flaws. They also tend to be supersuccessful at selling their stuff. And I like your time management tips :)
Posted by Alice Bachini-Smith on 01/08/2009 at 11:38am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Dude – you're clearly jealous that his books is way better than yours.
This post is a cry for help!
Posted by Geta Life on 01/08/2009 at 11:40am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Thank you for calling a tool, a tool. It should happen more often.
Posted by Macy H. on 01/08/2009 at 11:42am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Beautifully said!! I've read the 4HWW, and although in principle it sounds great, you're right – its worthless if you want to have a life filled with real connections, which is what we, as humans need to achieve authentic happiness.
Plus, Tim is ultra-focus man. That sort of lifestyle is great for ultra-focus people, but seriously, who wants to do nothing but tango for 6 weeks straight? BORING!!
I'm amazed at the amount of groupies this utopia has inspired and the funny thing is, I double ANY of them have achieved a 4HWW. Its bullshit. Thank you for calling him on it!
Posted by caren on 01/08/2009 at 11:52am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Well, I want to do nothing but tango for the rest of my life and don't find it the least bit boring. :)
But I, and many of my tango-dancing friends, also hate Tim for claiming to be a tango dancer.
One friend's brilliant rant on that subject:
http://aberdeentanguera.blogspot.com/2009/05/why-i-dislike-tim-ferriss.html
Oh, and I loved this blog article, and have now subscribed to the blog. Terrific points!
Posted by ShelleyDelayne on 06/10/2009 at 03:01pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I am wondering if the oral sex article the other day was directed towards Tim? You do sound a little like a woman scorned… So vitriolic..
Posted by malingere on 01/08/2009 at 11:54am | permalink | Reply to this comment
This is sexist and inappropriate. Period.
Posted by K.Rae on 01/08/2009 at 12:12pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
This.
Posted by Michelle on 2009-01-08 23:04:49 | (Comments wont nest below this level)
Just because a woman has a problem with a man, doesn't make it sexist.
I think she covers her hatred of Tim Ferriss pretty evenly and addresses only personality and basic work issues.
I thought this post was hilarious. Granted, i've never read the book, so I have no other side of the argument. But I tend to be suspicious of anyone who claims he or she can be successful in only 4 hours a week.
That said, the point about work/fun and semantics created an interesting discussion for my husband and I. I'm of the opinion that you can love your work but that doesn't make it not-work. And once you're a hugely famous best-selling author, anything you do in relation to the book or the advice you give in has to be considered work. It's just happens to also be a passion or to be enjoyable for you.
Posted by Abigail on 2009-01-13 17:27:04 | (Comments wont nest below this level)
ok.. she sounded like a 'person scorned'.. he did more to piss her off than she is telling us about..
Posted by malingerer on 01/12/2009 at 11:18am | permalink | Reply to this comment
This post had a lot of heart in it and is a great example of why I subscribe to your blog. You deliver career advice while calling Tim Ferris out for being a self-centered, conniving, ethically challenged, cheating, fraud.
Posted by Erin on 01/08/2009 at 11:56am | permalink | Reply to this comment
No, I think she actually said what a lot of people have been thinking, but have been afraid to say.
I read his blog. I bought his book. ANd then I sold his book because it wasn't what I thought it was going to be.
You are right in that time works incredibly hard. Yes, most of it is things that most people wouldn't consider work. But he is not sitting on a tropical island drinking mai-tais 36 hours of the week the rest of us would be working.
He is fiendishly successful, driven, and seems enormously happy. I wish him well. But his approach is not for me.
Posted by karen on 01/08/2009 at 11:57am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Meh, I understand your points AND have read his book. Although a lot of it is not applicable I did take several key points away from it.
About the Tango… He wanted to do that, he could stop at anytime. That's not work.
Work is being fired if you choose not to come in one day. Work is needing a job to afford living.
You know?
Posted by Mike on 01/08/2009 at 12:00pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
This is actually, I think, a core piece of the idea of a 4-hour work week. What is work? I think it might be a totally old-fashioned idea that work is something you don't like. Why does it have to be that?
I think a lot of this blog is about how generation Y is changing that for everyone. Work is about learning and friends and growing and teamwork. All stuff that is intrinsically good.
Also, in a world where you are managing your own career and you have located the intersection of your own talent and what the market will pay for, you can quit any given job any time and do something else that might be more enjoyable.
Finally, I really believe that having work is core to having a life. What we do with our time is our work. It's a very Montessori outlook, I know, but it's worth thinking about.
–Penelope
Posted by Penelope Trunk on 01/08/2009 at 12:11pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Penelope,
Please don't tell me you've succumbed to the Protestant work ethic. Generations X & Y are the force changing this antiquated mentality. You are their voice and their guide in the job market. Please feed us more than "You can't be Important without doing Important work".
-Sir Topham Hat
Island of Sodar Railworks Supervisor
Keeping really useful engines busy since 1923
Posted by Sir Topham Hat on 2009-01-09 12:08:18 | (Comments wont nest below this level)
You're right on Penelope – "work" in today's world should not equal "stuff you don't like to do but have to".
But for LOTS of people it is still the case.
When Tim calls it the "4 Hour Work Week", he means, that you can reduce the amount of time you spend on stuff you don't like doing but HAVE to.
Like firing his annoying customers that didn't contribute much sales anyways.
He's showing us how to set up a low maintenance / passive income source, which frees up time to go do whatever you enjoy doing, and possibly make even more money.
I respect and follow both you and Tim. I'm sure Tim does come across as sly/manipulative at times, but that's not the part that I respect him for.
It's for the "accelerated learning, and challenging limiting assumptions" bit that I respect him.
I daresay, you "challenge limiting assumptions" too, and that's one of the reasons I respect you!
Posted by Pratik Stephen on 2010-02-09 22:36:16 | (Comments wont nest below this level)
But if he tangos for 6 weeks straight and then writes about it (or whatever experiment he's doing) in a book or blog which generates money beacause of its stories or experiments…I'm sorry but that can't be described as nothing but WORK.
I'd love to be a free ride skier and live off my sponsors but it would still qualify as my job.
Posted by Lars on 01/09/2009 at 08:06am | permalink | Reply to this comment
It's interesting he's gotten under your skin enough that he got another large plug for his book on a top blog, even it is construed with negative connotations. Knowing Timmy, I'm sure he'll credit his genius time management skills and email spam-backs to somehow entice you to post about it in a fury.
I like when you tell the truth about how people can suck. Even if when it's about yourself.
Posted by Susan on 01/08/2009 at 12:04pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
@ Susan,
I actually don't see many people judging him based on Penelope's opinion. I certainly didn't. I have a lot of books I want to read and my time is precious. I'd rather start with one that hasn't gotten as much valid criticism, and if I get around to it, I'll read Tim's. I simply commended Penelope for speaking her mind.
It sounds like you've quickly formed your own opinion about us too.
Posted by Bea on 01/08/2009 at 12:32pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Well, interesting. I'm amused by how many commenters, not knowing Tim, nor having read his book, are judging him on the basis of your OPINION.
No wonder the herd mentality is alive and well.
Read the book, form your own opinion.
To restate, an opinion is totally subjective – is says volumes about the "opinion giver," and nothing about the subject.
There is Tim, and there is your opinion of Tim.
There is "The Farmer," and there is your opinion of The Farmer.
People who confuse the two often end up buying swampland.
Oh, Penelope. I enjoyed reading your opinion about what you judge to be the motivations of someone you had coffee with, despite the fact that you confess to hating him before you met him.
When in doubt, borrow an opinion wherever one is available.
Yikes.
Posted by Wayne Allen on 01/08/2009 at 12:08pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
When in doubt, borrow an opinion wherever one is available.
In the publishing world this is known as a "book review." You can't possibly read every book, so you use other people's opinions to decide whether you should even try.
Posted by Derek Scruggs on 01/08/2009 at 12:45pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I read the book, read his website, and he sounds like a major douchebag. He even looks like a douchebag. If you call a spade a spade, is it herd mentality? Or someone finally challenging said herd mentality that's been running around fawning over Ferris and the 4HWW?
I'd said PT's going against the grain on this one, pretty clearly.
Posted by Holly Hoffman on 01/09/2009 at 12:51pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
@Holly Hoffman
"I read the book, read his website, and he sounds like a major douchebag."
From YOUR blog
http://worklovelife.com/2009/01/news-flash-sex-is-a-distraction/
"I tried the “friends with benefits” thing with GIWS, who actually ended up becoming one of my best friends after our relationship ended, but that got messy fast and I decided for the sake of our friendship that needed to be an “emergencies only” kind of thing.
New Year’s Eve rolls around. And I pick up a guy in a bar. And take him home. I haven’t done it since like, college. "
And you say Tim's the douchebag?
Posted by Jerry on 2010-01-11 22:58:05 | (Comments wont nest below this level)
No, Jerry, I'd say you're a douchebag — your only comment is based on her sex life? She slept with a guy she wasn't married to? Clearly nothing she has to say has any validity.
I had to Google a picture of Ferris, and yeah, he looks like a douche. Especially after having read his book. The tone starts to grate as the smugness wears through.
Posted by Markus on 2010-02-23 20:36:40 | (Comments wont nest below this level)
Penelope,
Tim's whole "Four-Hour Work Week" shtick is a gimmick. A big fat gimmick. And unfortunately, that's what sells books, a gimmicky title. Just look at the book, The Flat Belly Diet. It's the same thing as the four-hour work week. Every woman wants a flat tummy like Giselle Bundchen or Marisa Miller, and they're going go out and buy The Flat Belly Diet in search of the Holy Grail of diets, and maybe they'll lose a few pounds, but they're not going to have abs like Giselle's. I've looked at the pictures in that book, and while all the women in the photos look beautiful, their tummies are not wash-board flat, and they're all shot at an angle to give the illusion of a flatter tummy.
There. Now I've vented and I feel better.
Thanks for uncovering the B.S. on this one.
Meridith
Posted by Meridith on 01/08/2009 at 12:09pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Not only a fun, brash post calling someone out but your third post this week. Are we going to be seeing more posts from you this new year?
Posted by Lance Haun on 01/08/2009 at 12:17pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Lance sums up my thoughts exactly.
I like the saucy Penelope.
Posted by Rachel - I Hate HR on 01/08/2009 at 05:27pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
By the time I finished (or rather got tired of) reading this book, I was both repulsed by many of the tactics it suggested and relieved that I borrowed it rather than bought it.
Posted by Lee Potts on 01/08/2009 at 12:20pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Thanks for writing this.
Things Ferriss does that really annoy me, both on his blog and his book are:
1. redefine whatever the objective measurement is so that he's successful at it
2. lie when redefinitions don't work.
3. trumpet any small success or achievement as a big one, and leave out the pesky details
For instance with (1), he took someone else's advice about not being negative in speech and redefined what the metric was. So he could chew someone out as giving feedback without counting towards his negativity. Um, hello? That's part of the whole challenge if you're a boss or a parent. He writes himself a get out of negativity card.
For (2), he advises in his book to offer for sale a good that's really only an idea, and then use the responses as a beta test for the marketing. With two examples, the boy and the girl, the girl didn't want to market a yoga DVD because she was too honest to do so. She made it first. He obliquely referenced this as her having an ethical issue rather than "I don't want to lie" which is what his advice was.
For (3), he talks about being a tango champion. And he often writes about this in the context of other things, along the lines of tango is about style and grace and strength while comparing it to another activity. But he leaves out that he didn't win on anything we consider essentially tango. He won a Guinness Book record for the most number of turns. Which, coincidentally, he shares with his female dance instructor, because, you know, it takes TWO to tango.
He does have some interesting things to say, but his work reminds me of the book "Never Be Lied to Again" which has some excellent tips but then proceeds to tell you how to lie and trick and trap someone into telling you the truth.
Both are malefic in similar ways.
Posted by Gib Wallis on 01/08/2009 at 12:24pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
What surprises me about this comment is the negativity towards the three things you described about Tim Ferriss.
First, I think in moderation points 1, 2, and 3 are what most people who are good career managers do. Number 2 where you use "lied" I would say that's just a restatement of number 1, where truth is redefined.
The second thing about this comment is you chastise Tim Ferriss for these things, yet read Penelope's blog where many of these concepts are at the root of her advice. How often does advise to redefine the situation so you are successful, or tout small achievements as big ones and gloss over failures?
That's not a criticism to her, I think those things are great advice for managing a career. Maybe Tim Ferriss has more to offer than you think.
Posted by Monica O'Brien on 01/09/2009 at 02:49pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Tim's book, I think, was more about "lifestyle design" (a term he coined) than working only four hours a week. Tim has said on my occations that the title of his book was hyperbole. It worked too – he's a bestseller.
And really, Tim's book is probably the BEST book out there in terms of a "how-to" on negotiating what you want out of life. Tim obviously a successful guy — which makes him an authority on the topic.
I'm sure someone has also brought up the point that everything should be taken with a grain of salt. Tim has some great points, but also some terrible ones (i.e. auto-responder).
Posted by Mike Waling on 01/08/2009 at 12:36pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I normally would not get all preachy, but I would urge you to rethink using the term "hate". One, it should be beneath you, and two, do you truly hate him? That is a powerful word, that should not be bandied about to catch peoples attention.
A very practical approach is to respect those you dislike or those who dislike you and appreciate them for the lessons they teach you.
Posted by Jimmy on 01/08/2009 at 12:36pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I think Penelope "hates" Tim the same way that Tim has a "4-hour work week."
Posted by Jeromy Timmer on 01/08/2009 at 01:37pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
This is by far the funniest comment on here.
Posted by haha on 2009-01-31 19:51:35 | (Comments wont nest below this level)
I agree :) LMAO
Posted by Kitchen Magic on 2009-10-26 07:42:43 | (Comments wont nest below this level)
I got sucked in by Timmy for a while–subscribed to his RSS and everything. Then I realized just what you said today: He's a cheat and a second-hander and a huge liar. I dropped him from my feed.
The sad thing is, he will undoubtedly convolute your post and the comments so that in his mind they somehow inflating his success — never doing a lick of "work" while he does so, of course.
Posted by Elsworth Toohey on 01/08/2009 at 12:38pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
A whole bunch of fountainhead fans here?
Posted by Ru on 03/26/2009 at 01:47pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I didn't know who he was until this post.
He has over 13,000 followers on twitter and actually follows ZERO, which tells me that what other people say isn't important. I loathe him.
Posted by LexieB. on 01/08/2009 at 12:56pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
This is a directly lie and falsification, he responds and talks back to followers, quite a bit, more so than some other bloggers I could name.
If you don't like what Tim has to say and agree with Penelope then fine, but don't make up rubbish lies.
Posted by @AcutelyObtuse on 07/14/2009 at 04:34pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Wow – I thought the conclusion to this post would be something positive about him – like 'you hate him so much you can't forget him' or something. But no, it really is just a diatribe about a guy who wrote a book. Which I will now read. I just ordered it from Amazon.
Posted by Ally S on 01/08/2009 at 12:58pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I feel like I should chime in here with something as I am actually a big supporter of Tim and what he has accomplished and also of P, whom I have had great personal conversations with. While Tim no doubt has some qualities about him that are off center, isnt that what it takes to get ahead in the entrepreneurial world. Maybe not cubicle nation, but to get ahead of your competition and grab the balls of your industry, you need to be a little out of whack.
For anyone who doesn't know the gist of the title, that is pure marketing. No one works 4 hours, whether you perceive what you do with your time as work or voluntary exercises (tango, kickboxing, video games). What he did was bring the ideas of lifestyle design into the forefront of mainstream culture, sold a few books and became someone with a voice.
By sending him email or joining in correspondence, you are opting into his voice. If you don't like it unsubscribe. That is the beauty of life, everything we do is opt-in, from the tv shows we watch to the books we read to showing up to work, we have the choice to say no. The consequences of those choices are not always favorable, but it is an opt-in choice.
I like how you are stirring the pot this week P! Its a great marketing move, if nothing else.
-G
Posted by Greg Rollett on 01/08/2009 at 01:16pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Thanks for being consistently willing to say what the rest of us sometimes think but are afraid to articulate out loud. Brava.
P.S I saw him in NY this summer and heard him speak; 10 minutes in and every gut feeling I had about his depth was confirmed. A bit like a naked Emporer, complete with room full of adoring fans too impressed with sales numbers to state the obvious.
Posted by Tia on 01/08/2009 at 01:17pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Penelope, what you said about time management not being an equation but being about relationships rang so true to me I nearly cried.
Posted by Noelle on 01/08/2009 at 01:41pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I think a better title for Tim's book would be "how to make loads of money and only do 4 hours a week of work you hate." But that wouldn't sell many books would it?
Even if you love your job, there are usually a few tasks that you hate doing. I hate the phone, but particularly voice mail. What I took away form 4HWW was to think differently what we consider typical work. I've since changed my voice mail message to request people send me an e-mail for a more prompt response. The reality is that I never check voice mail.
Auto-responses to e-mail are beyond annoying, but some people will still feel compelled to use them. Strangely, some people still expect immediate responses to all e-mails, despite the fact that a)it's impossible and b)trying to do so would prevent me from ever doing the part of my job that I enjoy.
Posted by Aimee on 01/08/2009 at 01:46pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I don't know this TIm Ferris guy but what a pompous P.I.G. I'm especially endeared by his automated email responses about how he only checks email twice a day. You are absolutely correct: NA. When he goes to the bathroom, does he include that in his automated email response? "This is TIm Ferris. I only check email twice a day. Also, when I am not checking email, I might be in the bathroom. Other than that, my day is too important to check emails and to wipe my ass.
It's unfortunate that buffons like Tim Ferris exist but you were smart to find the value add: you learned five time management techniques from this fool. Bravo to you Penelope!
Posted by acorn on 01/08/2009 at 01:49pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I was such a sucker I bought his book before reading the bad reviews on Amazon. (Well, at least I got it with a gift certificate.) Unless you want to sell phony "brain quicken" supplements to college students don't expect to have a four hour work week. I did get a good laugh out of it though. Maybe not $20 work of laughs but it's a book that is definitely worthwhile to read on the toilet or while you're in line at the DMV. Just check it out of the library.
Posted by Sucker on 01/08/2009 at 01:55pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I have both your books sitting side by side on my bookshelf. While I like them both, I think you are the far better writer. Of course I subscribe to your blog but not to his. You write with sincerity and humility. When reading Tim's work, it always feels like he's bragging.
Posted by Mark Orlando on 01/08/2009 at 02:00pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
P,
This post particularly caught my eye as this blog and F's blog are the only two "personal" blogs to which I subscribe. I've always considered the two blogs as very different: your blog is for professional and more career related advice, whereas Tim's is for more lifestyle and personal life advice. I stumbled onto your blog as I was looking for resume tips and I stumbled onto his blog as I was looking for a way to more efficiently pack for a backpacking trip.
You're right, I've never bought into Tim's 4HWW because it'd never work in a corporate system and he uses technicalities and what he refers to as "life hacks" to accomplish so much in such a short span of time. I also realize that he's a complete douchebag just from his posts, and after watching his show, "Trial by Fire", it pretty much reaffirmed that for me. I don't think the man has one genuine relationship and most of his contacts are people he'd name drop and network with, but never develop something real.
Yes, he does take it to the extreme, but he has a clear goal — to lifehack everything and anything and accomplish much more than anyone before he dies. Doing that makes him extraordinary and requires him to push things aside, like relationships.
It's not for everyone and it's not all for me, but I can pick and choose his advice for quickly obtaining new skill sets for my personal life and I'll stick with you for my career advice to obtain that balance that's perfect for me.
Keep up the good work and I loved this post because it gives me an idea of what the guy is like from someone who has actually met him face to face and didn't fall in love with the guy. It's like reading that one negative review on Amazon. Superb.
Posted by Yang on 01/08/2009 at 02:04pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Hey, could you take on Steve Pavlina and his polyamory as personal development posts next? I'd buy tickets to read that!
Posted by MJ on 01/08/2009 at 02:06pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Me too!!
Posted by haha on 01/31/2009 at 07:55pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
bravo. bravo. bravo. bravo.
Posted by Jason Pace on 01/08/2009 at 02:12pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
You are always a good writer, but you're at your peak best when you're pissed off. Go girl. Idiots like this Tim guy need to be outed and outed and outed at every possible opportunity.
Posted by Richard on 01/08/2009 at 02:22pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Hi Penelope,
Thank you for your honesty and courage to "keeping it real". What a refreshing change. There are too many people out there in the world who say one thing to your face, and stab you in the back when your not looking. Keep it up!
Posted by Alison Charter-Smith on 01/08/2009 at 02:24pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Who are you people, and how did you get on my computer?
Posted by clvrmnky on 01/08/2009 at 02:25pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
i think (nay, i KNOW) that i love you.
Posted by skampy on 01/08/2009 at 02:30pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Penelope,
You are a better writer than Tim is. Too bad he spammed your site. That isn't what grown-ups do. Instead they learn to better themselves.
Posted by LT on 01/08/2009 at 02:34pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I'm always on the fence with your blog, trying to decide whether to delete it from my RSS feed. You may have just won my subscription for life.
I've thought for years that Tim Ferriss fits the classic profile of a sociopath.
Posted by Paco on 01/08/2009 at 02:41pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Your point about relationships is spot on in my opinion. The thing is though, I think, some people like Tim cannot understand the pure value of supporting a relationship with so much time and energy – they are about having others outside acknowledge their successes and being financially compensated for their work. Quite a few people experience relationhips in the periphery of their lives since they are unable to see the inherent value of mutual support amongst people. It's too abstract for them.
I do think the majority of people do feel though that success isn't real success unless you have people in your life to share it with.
However, people like Tim, truly cannot understand why others place so much emphasis on them (and in their minds "waste" their efforts).
Posted by The Sassy Sexpert on 01/08/2009 at 02:41pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I was initially turned off by Tim’s strategy to win in kickboxing; however, I then found the similarity of his strategy to a billionaire I admire. Roger Penske. Roger took the rules, found a loop hole, and blew the competition away. He converted a wrecked Formula 1 car into a 2 seat sports car, known as the Zerex Special. This was controversial, but look at the fame and wins behind this small tweak.
Mr. Penske differs from Tim in regards to relationships. He is humble and values his friendships/relationships, so I'm not saying the two are similar in character at all.
Posted by Tiffany on 01/08/2009 at 02:42pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Roger Penske created a real product that people wanted
Tim Ferris won the right to kiss his own ass and screwed real champions out of a competion for which they undoubtedly trained very hard and in which they all looked forward to competing. so Penske created something/Ferris nothing.Penske has the entrepreneurial spirit/Ferris has dick headedness
Posted by aad on 01/08/2009 at 05:30pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
No Offense. You sound bitter, like a little girl in love who got stood up for the prom.
Posted by Phillip B. Roberts on 01/08/2009 at 02:43pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
She does a little. But it is hard not to with that story. We've all been duped by salesperson trickery in some way and felt like that at some point.
Posted by Samantha on 01/16/2010 at 04:09am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Well, after giving this post some more thought, I think you should stop "hating" Tim – two years is too long. His approach has obviously solidified your core beliefs regarding teamwork, relationships, being self-centered, semantics, etc. Maybe you should thank him for becoming a benchmark – an antithesis – at least in some respects as you have outlined above.
Posted by Mark W. on 01/08/2009 at 02:44pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
This is an excellent post and I'm glad it appeared on Metafilter. I suspected at first that it might just be a vitriolic jealousy rant, but much of what you say rings true to my opinion of Mr Ferris. Thanks for writing it.
Posted by Benjamin Goodger on 01/08/2009 at 02:52pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I read the 4-hour workweek and was really excited about it at the time. But the more I thought about Tim's advice the more I realized that his were not really strategies to "work smarter" but more along the lines of "how to push your work off on others." It's a potent strategy, one I've seen used successfully many times in the workplace. But I ultimately decided it's not a strategy I'd like to employ for myself.
Posted by The Office Newb on 01/08/2009 at 02:59pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Unless you have Asperger Syndrome or something like that, controversy is a mindjail for human attraction. It can be sick and twisted, yet nonetheless true.
Posted by Torley on 01/08/2009 at 03:15pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Our company nearly collapsed after the owner read The 4 Hour Work Week. Tried to outsource everything.
Posted by Ray on 01/08/2009 at 03:37pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
This is only my second comment to your blogs. I wonder if your content is a reflection of your life. If so, you must be in utter turmoil. I started reading your blog over 1 year ago and the mode was upbeat, authoritative and informational. It has since degraded (apparently around the time of the divorce) to regular rants about your unhappiness. I wish only great things for you but until you start to take control of your life I fear the worst.
Good luck to you in all that you do. I hope things improve, but it's up to you.
"The minute you alter your perception of yourself and your future, both you and your future begin to change."
* Marilee Zdenek
Posted by JMB on 01/08/2009 at 04:15pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Tim,
I am sure you'll read Penelope's post in great detail. I doubt you'll make it my comment, but if you do, why not do what you should have done much earlier: apologize to Penelope. To Penelope: you have every reason to feel abused, but please consider your own behaviour here: a mud-throwing article, which reveals your refusal to communicate with him to work things out. A bit childish isn't it? Not that Tim should complain: that's what happens when you're so full of yourself (I admire his accomplishments though).
Posted by F on 01/08/2009 at 04:15pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Though I often have negative comments to write, I have to agree wholeheartedly with this one.
I can't stand Tim Feriss and could never understand why people weren't able to see through hid bullshit from the beginning.
He is like the 5:45pm piece on the 5 o'clock news. Promises to be great, but after you take a look, it's all fluff and over too quick.
Posted by kleinm on 01/08/2009 at 04:25pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Childish maybe, but so much fun. I feel like I'm watching Gossip Girl. Go P!
Posted by j on 01/08/2009 at 04:29pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I find this post totally inspiring. Am I going to hell?
Posted by HR Wench / Jenn Barnes on 01/08/2009 at 04:42pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Jenn: nope, I think you need to try harder ;-)
Posted by Etienne on 01/10/2009 at 04:32pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Tim Ferris' book "The Four Hour Workweek" is a HUGE seller for people who do the kind of work that I do. That's because everybody wants to have that sort of lifestyle.
I suppose anything's possible if you have enough money to pay people to do pretty much ALL your work for you. lol
Angela from Aberdeen
Posted by Angela on 01/08/2009 at 04:42pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Yeah, I can see why. Some things just should NOT be outsourced.
Posted by Angela on 01/08/2009 at 04:45pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I can't really say that "hating" someone makes you right. I hope you don't think you are.
Posted by Lobsterclause on 01/08/2009 at 04:46pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I'm quite happy that someone writes this comment on Ferris.
This guy's idea is only "outsource your work".
OK it is great for some jobs (basically homeworking) but it is obviously not relevant for many, many others:
police, firemen, soldiers, doctors, etc.
I hope you'll write a comment on another "genius": Steve Palina…
Posted by d099 on 01/08/2009 at 05:15pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Wow. I think you're way off base on this one, Penelope.
Tim is far from the maniacal double-talker you make him out to be. . .in fact, if you do ever get to know him outside your short coffee (which by your own admission you wanted to avoid in the first place), I think you would find him to be a warm and generous guy. Just take a look at all the fund-raising he does, for example.
Also, to put it plainly, the underlying theme of Tim's book, and a great deal of his philosophy from my standpoint at least, is INDEED sharing yourself with your friends and family, living life to its fullest, and removing one's self from many of the distractions of life. Not removing one's self from its people.
Take a breather. . .that's a lot of bottled up angst.
I'm also in complete agreement with @Mike Waling on your choice of the word "hate". Seems like a great use of semantics to draw attention to your own opinion, don't you think? It works both ways. Plus, hate. . .jeez. . .such a nasty and vitriolic word.
Cheers,
Doc
Posted by Doc Kane on 01/08/2009 at 05:17pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I wouldn't exactly call someone generous who tells other people to give their money to a cause he decides is a good one. He's generous if he gives something – money, time, emotional support – of his own, something that's a sacrifice for him. Just as a politician isn't generous because he took money from other people by force and redistributed to other people, for his own glory or votes.
Posted by Markus on 02/23/2010 at 09:15pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
LOVE this post! I never thought about him this way, but you are totally right. For instance, I never thought about the email thing that way before, and it totally makes him look like a moron now that you've pointed it out. He's so arrogant about the whole email auto-response thing–like it's such a revolutionary idea. Really, how many people who work for someone else (which most of us do) can really do his whole "I check email once a day" thing and get away with it? And frankly, who would want to? I check my email constantly–who cares?
Frankly, his book is pretty dated now–in this day and age of everyone being connected all the time, I think it's more of a liability than a plus to be totally unreachable much of the time. There are so many successful people who are accessible via twitter or whatever 24/7; if someone is inaccessible then there's always someone else available right at that moment, waiting to take that business or establish that relationship or whatever.
The thing about Tim Ferriss is that he is a true narcissist–and proud of it. Sure, it helped him become rich and famous–as a result of his own relentless self-promotion. And the thing about the 4-hour work week? You are so right–the book should be called the 24/7 work week because he is always "on" and therefore always working. Sure, he's not chained to a desk answering to a boss 40 hours a week, but every minute of his waking life is devoted to furthering his success. That's work.
And the whole outsourcing thing has always struck me as exploitation.
When you get right down to it, his book is mainly about being a bull$hitter and getting ahead by taking advantage of people.
Posted by Maggie on 01/08/2009 at 05:42pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
This amuses me by the simple irony that I bought both of your books at the same time, and… they're were both actually physically touching on my bookshelf when I opened this.
What doesn't amuse me is that the 5 points above seem thinly veiled around a desire to vent about a personal relationship… jealousy or not.
While this is true, the two aren't at all mutually exclusive. I'll take both whenever I can. I think Tim would agree.
In any case, this post doesn't detract from what I've learned from Tim's book any more than your other personal relationship posts detract from what I've learned from yours. I continue to find value in both.
Posted by Andrew on 01/08/2009 at 05:54pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Oh, Snap!
I haven't read the comments yet (later, though)—-and I didn't have an opinion either way on Tim Ferriss (okay, maybe a vague opinion about cheesiness and schlock–but nothing too venomous)—
but this is Pure Gold.
Posted by MelissaB on 01/08/2009 at 06:02pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I read most of his book. Lost interest at the end.
I like the stressed Penelope because the veneer is stripped away and the real shows. And it's refreshingly human.
Keep at it!
And even if your company does fail: keep at it, try, try again. There is no success without failure.
Posted by Chris Mahan on 01/08/2009 at 06:09pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
This is a surprisingly effective rant. When does someone actually rant and make clear, concise points as the same time?
I also have to agree with Meredith's comment – his book comes across as a gimmicky, cheap way to make money. Heavy on the hype, light on the content. Good for making the author money, but perhaps lacking an honest desire to really improve the lives of the people who were suckered into buying the book in the first place.
Posted by Aanda on 01/08/2009 at 06:09pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I doubt that Penelope is any more jealous of Tim Ferriss than she is of Danielle Steel. We would all enjoy Ms. Steel's sales figures, but few would aspire to her literary accomplishments. By the same token, those who seek to make a genuine contribution to the field of career development have little respect for the narcissistic dilettantes who occasionally blast their way through the best seller lists with "lifestyle design manuals" and various other pop culture offerings.
Penelope often speaks truth to power. As an expert in her field, it is good that she occasionally speaks truth to misguided adoration.
Popular acclaim does not reflect genuine value. The unwashed masses will latch onto a sound bite (or a book title) and break into wild applause. In the case of an entertainment figure or sports celebrity, this is harmless enough. In the case of someone offering a list of irresponsible gimmicks disguised as a legitimate philosophy, there comes a time for the wiser among us to call the bluff.
Posted by Michael Covisi on 01/08/2009 at 06:10pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I never thought the book title was about only working 4 hours per week. In fact Tim talks about working a ton to build the business that he was able to turn over to others to run while he lived his life they way he wanted. He did remind me to spend less time "re-acting" and to be "pro-active" in my business. Go get the work instead of waiting for the e-mail/call to arrive. I admire his success and enjoy watching his dance around the world. His book inspired me to re-work my business so I can spend 3 months in Paris and then 3 months in Argentina later this year.
I read 5-6 books a month and thumb through another dozen. I find very few that have as much interesting content as the author thinks they do. Most contain 2-3 good ideas and the rest is filler. Tim Ferriss has a Donald Trump thing going. People love him or they hate him. Think Rush Limbaugh and Howard Stern. The success is out of the edge. Most of what I have read in this post and comments is from the middle. The mediocre, the unfulfilled.
Tim had achieved a success few authors ever see. I applaud his marketing, creativity and grabbing life as he wants to live his life.
I hope you get a chance to rock that black dress!
Warmly,
Bryant Keefe
Posted by Bryant Keefe on 01/08/2009 at 06:25pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Be irritated by him by all means, but why bother hating him?
Can't you just filter his annoying 'I don't check email' emails where they belong – the spam filter?
Very amusing post though and it's also nice to see someone poking the sacred cows of productivity gurus. I quite like David Allen's GTD system though.
Posted by Caitlin on 01/08/2009 at 06:43pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I like Getting Things Done as well. That last link is to a post by David Allen, author of Getting Things Done, — about how time management is about making hard decisions about what our priorities in life are.
-Penelope
Posted by Penelope Trunk on 01/08/2009 at 08:02pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
FINALLY…thank you for indulging in a bit of a rant, and hopefully this will lead to more critical evaluation of Ferris' methods.
The only time I ever came close to meeting Tim Ferriss was at SXSW last year. He was flexing his biceps (no kidding) for a cadre of adoring fanboys surrounding him in the hallway. This was an amusing vignette, but very much in character.
He's always struck me as kind of the Martha Stewart of productivity/'lifestyle design' – collecting and rehashing secondhand ideas, wrapping it all up with his on personal ego-driven brand.
Posted by Sean on 01/08/2009 at 07:52pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
This post is why I love your blog. My husband calls you my girl-crush. Penelope keeps it real – yo!
Posted by Erin A on 01/08/2009 at 09:06pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I did buy his book. Started reading it on a flight from San Francisco to Portland. Left it on the plane – did not miss it. Waste of a good flight…
Posted by Marianne on 01/08/2009 at 09:25pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
this is absolutely classic…
Posted by stu mease on 01/08/2009 at 09:53pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
P
I understand that you are quite respected in the blog world and as an author…Having said that you really have just done Timmy a great service by placing attention to his work and probably providing extra income to his lifestyle!!!(thereby potentially creating a 3 hour work week instead of a 4 hour work week!) Relationship are important, but being selective is probably even more important when time really is equates to your life…would you waste your time/life on people that do not resonate with your higher purpose? oops you did,that was with Tim! You are right he probably did work incredibly hard and now he pursues what he wants to do…sounds like really bad grapes…but I ll buy your book if it helps!
Posted by Trev on 01/08/2009 at 11:23pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I think she would have linked to and discussed her book in this post if she wanted you to buy it as a result of writing this post.
Posted by Mark W. on 01/09/2009 at 02:16pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I wonder – did you purposefully spell Tim's last name two different ways?
:-) That was a fun read. Way to be constructive with an annoying and energy-sucking situation!
Posted by SaraH on 01/09/2009 at 12:12am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Ok, truth told, I've picked up a few tips from Tim Ferris' book that were useful to me, even as I arched my eyebrows at his more questionable tactics, like how he practically browbeat the teaching staff at Princeton with interrogations in order to ensure good grades.
But, your piece here is a gem, it really is, mostly because it comes from the gut, and that is the kind of writing I connect with best.
What it is eye-opening for me, also, is what you say about selling a book. I just sort of thought Tim Ferris wrote the book and then someone else marketed it for him and then the royalties came rolling in. Duh, I now know. From what you recount here, there's much more to being a successful author than writing stuff that people want to read. That's a little daunting.
Posted by Systeria on 01/09/2009 at 12:23am | permalink | Reply to this comment
I loved this post. I never read Tim's book because the concept of a 4-hr work week is absurd. Striving for it only seems futile. However, I now know that I actually have a 4-hr work week, because I love what I do all day and night. (Heck, maybe I'm down to a 2-hour week!)
Here, I thought I was killing myself with work and needed to try to cut back my "work" hours…Achieve a work/life BALANCE (not blend). Instead, since I actually like what I do in all those hours, I'm not really working at all! Glad I could find out by reading your blog and not picking up a totally useless book. :-)
Posted by Mimi on 01/09/2009 at 12:51am | permalink | Reply to this comment
I was expecting this to be a post about the lessons you can learn despite how you feel. Instead you made it about tearing someone else down because you disagree with how they do business.
I too read 4HWW and thought his tips were just tricks. I found myself thinking, "If he has to find ways to love him job, maybe he's in the wrong career path." I see it everyday: people that do what they're good at instead of what they love and that's how Ferriss presented himself to me.
But it doesn't mean he got it ALL wrong. His method is perfect for other people like him. Today you reminded me of something my grandfather taught me when I was younger:
You have to let yourself learn from every open source. Look at someone and say: I want to do this like them, but I don't like the way they do that so I want to find my own way.
Hate to say it, but I feel like you still have more to learn from Tim Ferriss.
Posted by Eva on 01/09/2009 at 01:07am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Fantastic post! Thank you so much for exposing the real Tim Ferriss for the rest of us who were puzzled by his super human capacity to get things done in 4 hours a week. Hah! What a joke! After hearing only foolish praises about his work for far too long, the truth finally emerges. Great job, Penelope :)
Posted by Aishwarya on 01/09/2009 at 02:06am | permalink | Reply to this comment
(I can't believe I found your blog only in the last month – but there you go.)
I have a new definition of irony:
Brazen Careerist + 4HWW are listed on Amazon is 'titles frequently bought together :-)
Hilarious irony is that the 3rd title is 'The Dip'
Don't know what says about Amazon's algorithms if your book wasn't a best seller? Love your writing and would have bought the book if I was interested in the topic.
Posted by Dennis at Retailsmart on 01/09/2009 at 02:27am | permalink | Reply to this comment
If the economy is going down the tubes and your business is failing start a war. As a strategy it isn't new and it has worked for quite a few countries.
I guess it will be interesting to see if it works for your blog. I guess by the number of comments that you have at least woken everyone up from the holidays and no mention of gob jobs.
Congratulations.
Posted by If all else fails... on 01/09/2009 at 03:02am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Trev said:
> P
> I understand that you are quite respected in the blog world and as
> an author…
Really? You mustn't Google much.
Posted by John on 01/09/2009 at 05:17am | permalink | Reply to this comment
What an utterly bitter and childish way to try to direct more traffic here.
Penelope, once your blog was good, contained tips and insights to make one think about a lot of things. Now it seems that along with your company and personal troubles it has sunk to pure non-sense.
Tim spams you? How about setting up a simple mail rule? All email programs (as well as services) alows you to do that and then you would be gone instead of getting angry about it. Take a lesson from Guy Kawasaki, that guys never writes an angry post and seems to be an overall nice guy – hatred does not get you anywhere.
Posted by John-777 on 01/09/2009 at 06:14am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Example of why TF's ideas suck:
I remember trying to score a lunch date with you last year at a conference we both were speaking at. I had just read Tim's book and added the same auto response to my email. After you agreed to meet me you got my "I don't check email" reply, then got pissy with me. I immediately removed the reply and joined the "Tim Ferriss Sucks" club.
Needless to say, you blew off lunch. We still met but only because I conference stalked you.
Thank you for teaching me this that day:
"5. Time management is about making time to connect with people
The idea of time management only matters in relation to how important the stuff is that's competing for your time. The stuff that makes time management the most difficult is relationships. Which Tim does not excel in."
I've used this story 100 times to demonstrate that point.
p.s. you still owe me a lunch date
Amanda Hite
Posted by sexythinker on 01/09/2009 at 07:57am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Invent a new word for "work" and what it means, and then I will think you are onto something.
Posted by Barbara on 01/09/2009 at 07:58am | permalink | Reply to this comment
I think I love you, well, at least if adding you to my RSS reader is a sign of anything.
Want to have coffee? I'm meeting with a few really interesting people. I'll tell you more after we find them and sign the NDA's. Seriously, you don't want to miss this.
Posted by Matt on 01/09/2009 at 08:42am | permalink | Reply to this comment
This is my first comment on this blog. I followed a tweet by Steve Rubel to get to this piece.
For the record, I did read Tim's book and I did like it. I also thought it was about 50% bull*/%t. But that's true of most "do-this-to-achieve-amazing-success books. I could say the same about this post. I think about half what you said was valuable info, the rest is "blog-posting 101: write a controversial post about someone popular and get plenty of readers and comments.
Not that I'm faulting you for it. It works doesn't it? Look at all these comments. Only problem is…this is the sort of thing that Tim would also advocate doing.
Sorry, I was just following your point number 2…
I am still going to subscribe to your blog by the way.
Posted by Alain on 01/09/2009 at 08:49am | permalink | Reply to this comment
That's the best damn post I've seen from you in over a year.
Posted by Sean C on 01/09/2009 at 09:03am | permalink | Reply to this comment
I don't know much about you or Ferriss (yet). But if anything you say is actually true, I LOVE your style. Saying it like it is. Calling someone out. Just like the old days in Brooklyn, NY where I grew up. Trash this PC b.s.
It was a fun read.
P.S. If you are being satirical, I feel foolish!
Posted by KeepingItReal on 01/09/2009 at 09:16am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Good post, but I can't help but note:
You use Amazon's referral program to link to Tim Ferris' book. That's a little like saying, how I learned to stop drinking alcohol, which you can buy here. Just saying.
Posted by Alexey on 01/09/2009 at 09:44am | permalink | Reply to this comment
If people want to smoke crack, might as well make some dough in the process. It's a built in tick of entrepreneurs.
Posted by Matt on 01/09/2009 at 09:46am | permalink | Reply to this comment
This post and the previous post generated some traffic, as in the past, suggesting a need to stay more focused on career. As a reader what I have noticed by the variety of topics is that they all fit because you can not separate career and life. We all have likes, dislikes, sex, love, kids, play and various things that make up our life. It is not possible to separate our career from our life as they are too interconnected. As such the variety of Penelope's posts are a reflection of the fact our career though not our life is too much a part of us to not include apparently unrelated issues when thinking about or discussing our career. I found the last two posts quite enjoyable.
Posted by Don B. on 01/09/2009 at 09:49am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Penelope I adore you! I couldn't finish Tim's book. I like the concept of free time; but, only to make time for more meaningful connections.
You go girl! -michelle
Posted by Michelle Singer on 01/09/2009 at 10:06am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Good for you Penelope. I remember his blog marketing blitz and it was brilliant, but the book (or plan or whatever) was obviously snake oil.
Posted by Julie on 01/09/2009 at 10:10am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Nicely done P, yet another post that makes me proud to be part of the Brazen community.
I always enjoy reading your posts, but this week in particular, I've really enjoyed reading the comments. You have some very polarized readers here; Tim-lovers and fellow Tim-haters and then some that are in the middle of the road.
Your writing is refreshing and continues to be relevant to your blog's niche. Relating oral to work and Tim's douche-ness to time management is a talent and I wish more people could see that.
Keep it up!
Posted by Sydney on 01/09/2009 at 10:13am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Not to pick sides, but this is the most entertaining blog post I have read in a good while. For shear entertainment value, I give it an 11 on a scale of 10.
QUESTION: You say that Tim's employees were spamming your blog. Is this what PR people do these days? Like, did Tim retain a PR agency for this? And, was it done strategically, on a few blogs like yours and Guy's and Seth's, or on a wide, indiscriminate scale?
I get a ton of PR spam, like "Harry, we are big fans of your amazing blog MarketingHeadhunter.com, and we thought you might like to know that the New England Journal of Medicine has just released an important new study on ginkgo biloba and lower back pain and we thought your readers might want to know …"
Just curious.
Harry
Posted by Harry Joiner on 01/09/2009 at 10:13am | permalink | Reply to this comment
106 106 106!
Agree with all the above. I love Tim too – for his brazenness. But Penny you come across as some one I'd actually like to get to know.
"Epictetus". London
Posted by Epictetus on 01/09/2009 at 10:13am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Awesome. I don't know Tim Ferriss, but he's always sounded like a d*ck to me!
Posted by Holly Hoffman on 01/09/2009 at 10:25am | permalink | Reply to this comment
I love your commenters. Well, most of them. Of course you have a few sad, pathetic people that only have negatives in their life and comments. Anyway, I'm subscribing to your comments now.
Carol
Posted by Carol Saha on 01/09/2009 at 10:31am | permalink | Reply to this comment
I think you are promoting Tim. Is this some sort of "warfare" marketing?
"You post how much I suck and I'll post how much you suck and people will Google us to see if we really suck as bad as the other says we do…"
Funny. Clever. And always well written.
I appreciate what you do.
Posted by Charley on 01/09/2009 at 10:51am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Tim Sucks!!!! Ha, okay, here's the problem with this post. I now have the desire to go read this book and I had never wanted to before. DOH!!!!!!!, he swindled you again!!!!! Or wait, was this outcome what you had planned all along? I think we might have a conspiracy here.
Posted by Danny on 01/09/2009 at 10:57am | permalink | Reply to this comment
This is a fantastic post- will definitely read more! You are so-so right!
Posted by Marco Kotrotsos on 01/09/2009 at 11:14am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Very well said and amusing to read your article and all these comments. Great stuff, and interesting perspectives on TF and his book.
Posted by Crowdsourcing on 01/09/2009 at 11:51am | permalink | Reply to this comment
I met Tim at SXSW under very similar circumstances. A meeting where I expected lots of people but it turned out to just be a few (with another blogger who I suspect was the real target).
He pulled out his book and I skimmed it right in the restaurant. Disbelief factor 10,000. I actually challenged him to show me kickboxing moves right in the restaurant. He did, but I wasn't all that impressed.
But I also knew that his book was going to be a best-seller, before I even opened it. The title alone was genius.
But everyone who knows him knows that all his victories are empty, except for the one where he realized that starting his own little religion, with semi-faked "miracles" of self-improvement, was going to be a huge moneymaker.
Posted by Neil Kandalgaonkar on 01/09/2009 at 12:41pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Lol Erin A–Penelope is totally my girl crush!
Posted by Maggie on 01/09/2009 at 12:46pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Penny, coffee? Seriously, I gotta run, these people are waiting to meet me. I'd love for you to come!
(Man, this is endless fun. I could, and just might, do this all day.)
Posted by Matt on 01/09/2009 at 12:52pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I read Tim's book. I loved parts, but also agree with Penelope on many parts of it.
All said and done, it motivated me to launch a product which has done quite well. OK, I was already working on the product when I read the book, but it assured me I wasn't crazy and heading in the right direction.
In the end, I created an iPhone app and am having blast promoting it. It's a gratitude journal for the iPhone and has been well received (without using Tim's type of promotion).
Posted by carla on 01/09/2009 at 12:52pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Excellent…that guy is just a freak success… selling shit bottled up in excellent glassware. 4-hour work week is just plain idiocy…and seems like ther have been a good number of idiots who made the book a best seller.
Only lesson learnt from Tim – you can sell crao to people if you make up your mind and work for it.
Posted by Xencor on 01/09/2009 at 01:26pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
You know what Penny…this is going to be the most commented post of yours in 2009 :)
But there have been crap best sellers …all along right?
Going by that guy's fetish for Virtual Assistants…"who are cheap and do the job well"..whatever it means :)
probably he hired one of them ..to post in comments section of all popular blogs.
Posted by Xencor on 01/09/2009 at 01:34pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Zing.
Oh, and great post about calling out and cutting out people who are using you for their own gain. Thanks for the reminder that its people and relationships that matter, not the petty little games we all try to play.
Posted by Ruthie on 01/09/2009 at 01:36pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
This is the most balanced, probing and insightful comment of the lot.
Posted by Pat on 01/26/2009 at 04:39am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Tim Ferriss probably has little love for me – (you can read my comments on his blog… the last one I basically said I was done with his site because I believe he wasn't being real, particularly over the election – to which I garnered 33 'thumbs up' – I didn't expect that) … my comments prompted a response from him on the blog and I respected what he said and, after-which, no longer read it – as I said I would.
So, all that said, when I read another blogger reference this article (yours), I came here (this is my first time) …and my only response to you, Ms. Penelope, is quite simple:
Get over it.
…while I can't get inside your mind – I believe your rant says more about you than it says about him.
What I gather from it are the following assumptions… (then later I lay out some facts that back these up to the extent they can):
1. Tim beat you and you didn't like it (on many different levels… some of which you illustrated, some of which are not apparently visible, but seem to scream out their existence)
2. He sold you and you didn't like it (…nobody likes being sold but everyone loves to buy … you bought a bill of goods from him and now you've got your Visa statement-post-holiday-sticker-shock)
3. He's more skilled than you at getting to those levels and it bothers you so much that you had to trash him.
Now to why I've come to the above: Some of the points you make that are "insane" are specifics that Tim's "time management" principles espouse. Personally, I don't agree with or like them …but you're stating them here to your readers as though they are "insane" is as though he hasn't blatantly written about in his book…
…he has…further, you make these statements having said you READ his book (btw, I read and returned his book for the purchase price …I have SHARP criticisms with it… and said so on his site). Well the logic doesn't connect here …if you read his book – then you know this is part of his philosophy …so why are you acting like it doesn't make sense? It's as though you're writing this in a manner like he started doing this out of the blue. But if you read it in his book – you'd know it. But because there are technical problems in that his email is responding back to blog comments… this means it's all "insane"? Sure, sounds like he's a promoter to me… but c'mon…
Hey, it's nothing personal – as I stated this is the first time I've EVER read you … but for that very reason you really ought to think twice about writing trash-talk like this as all it does it point right back at you and turn-off objective people like myself (unless that's what you're blog is about ..and from the gist, so far, I don't believe it is …if I'm wrong here – I'll be happy to stand corrected …and heck – go get 'em, if that's your calling).
Now, I might sound hypocritical ..afterall – here I am talking about you …and further, I talked about Tim in my aforementioned comments on his site too …
…there's a difference here though: I told BOTH of you what you were saying that was out and out wrong and the reasons why – DIRECTLY TO YOU (further, I cited evidence of this – either thru your own words or in the realm of experience, historical legitimacy and good judgment.)
Honestly, I mean – I hate drawing these conclusions… but you need to know how you're coming off… and you've displayed all the ear-marks of a gal whos been "conquered" by a male and is in the "Hell hath no fury" stage of things. I am not even making this accusation … but were a psychologist to pick apart everything you wrote …it seems the "blue dye pack" that explodes in the money has it's ink all over you.
Posted by J. Caspian on 01/09/2009 at 01:54pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Holy christ, stop drinking so early.
Posted by Matt on 01/09/2009 at 02:13pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Owned.
Posted by Devin on 01/09/2009 at 01:59pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
It's funny that you write this post about Tim. I had the same feeling after I read your book and Tim's one. You are outstanding writers (I must admit that I have a preference for your style. Great). The problem is that Tim and you use these writing skills to turn half cent ideas into a jewel. That's your strength. Be honest, why do you hate him? because of your differences? or because of your similarities?
With my best greetings from France
Lionel
Posted by Lionel Conforto on 01/09/2009 at 03:04pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Now I know why I love you. You are who Courtney Love should have grown up to be. This post is now one of my all-time faves.
I can think of one reason why your book was not a runaway bestseller: the cover. The cover was like the old blog design in that it disguised the crackling wit and sound advice that was between its pages. A white guy in a shirt, ripping it open to reveal a crisp, white tee does not a brazen careerist make.
Otherwise, your book (and well, books) was a million times better than 4HWW. But his cover was better.
You can just insert that old saying here.
Posted by Joselle on 01/09/2009 at 03:18pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I agree the cover was bad front and back.
Posted by Amanda Hite on 01/09/2009 at 03:32pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
So good that you haven't lost any track of your feelings and ramblings about Tim Ferris and similar people who redefine work as something you're forced to do.
Thank you for writing this 4 hour work week post-mortem and trying to explain what work really is and a$$holes who trick you in what work is not.
Your rant inspired me to write a blog post of my own – Is 4-hour work week a myth?.
Cheers!
Shonzilla
Posted by Shonzilla on 01/09/2009 at 04:03pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I'm a recent subscriber and really appreciate the unadulterated honesty in your blog. Not only is the post a diatribe but you offer sound advice as well. It's genius!
Posted by Sean R on 01/09/2009 at 04:29pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I don't know about this Tim fellow, but he sounds odd. Anyway, one never knows why some people prefer one person's crap over another (not that you write crap Penelope), but that's one of God's great mysteries. Anyway, I think people like Tim know how much they can get away with…and then some. They push boundaries b/c to some extent, who is really going to push back? In some cases, they learn their limits and move on to some other unsuspecting chap.
Posted by Raven on 01/09/2009 at 06:09pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I've never met Tim and never read his book. But I briefly became fascinated by his success — very briefly. The book title made me suspicious so I read his blog, read reviews of his book, and watched some video interviews with him. In all channels, he appeared smug and insincere. Tim's advice mostly reminds me of what Stephen Covey has described as "personality techniques". These techniques are apparently successful at first but they are also manipulative and hypocritical. They prove harmful long term in relationships, reputation, and
Thanks for providing the missing pieces in the marketing strategy and confirming my suspicions about his "people skills".
Posted by Ted on 01/09/2009 at 06:09pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I agree with much of what you've said here Penelope.
The only problem is that you're doing Tim a favor by posting this. Exposing more people to his work and creating more controversy, exactly what he wants.
Posted by Jonathan Mead on 01/09/2009 at 06:29pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
"I'm highly suspicious of all highly successful people. "
This sums up your fanbase nicely.
Posted by Belinda on 01/09/2009 at 07:15pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
From day one I've felt that 4HWW should have been subtitled, "How to cheat at work and life." I prefer GTD and Bit Literacy.
Posted by Duff on 01/09/2009 at 07:19pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Oh, come on. This is probably the most negative post I've read in over a year. Why do you feel the need to share this unnecessary anger and jealousy with your readers?
Tim has always seemed like a great guy to me and even if some of his ideas could be considered a bit extreme I have found great value in both the book and his blog!
Posted by Andreas Climent on 01/09/2009 at 07:25pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Wow. Somebody here does not like Tim Ferris. LOL. Yeah I bought and read his book. It was more like the 4 hour waste of my time. But you have to give the dude credit. It is a novel idea.
- Maintenance Man
Posted by Maintenance Man on 01/09/2009 at 08:16pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I can't believe I actually bought his book.
Looking for some sort of contrarian wisdom, I wasted a holiday gift card and got as far as the kick boxing competition. Purely unethical and "cheap" in terms of competition… he used cheap methods to ruin a competition and now parades around with the title of international kick boxing champion. Thumbs up Dude.
Posted by Tim on 01/09/2009 at 08:18pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I spent a whole day and a half a couple of days ago looking for an objective (at least somewhat critical) perspective on Tim Ferriss and his tactics. I am stunned to find your blog entry today about some of the very things I was bemoaning in my (very unknown) blog the other day.
As I was perusing your bounty of blog entries after I got laid off this past month, I found a veritable cornucopia of knowledge that has been very helpful. And I ended up running into articles by some young blogging types who ranted about lifestyle design and SEO and all that jazz, which made me curious, and had some good information, but seemed to be lacking the basic "how-to" of the whole thing.
Every single one of them seemed to be a big fan of Tim Ferriss. When I saw his book a few years ago, I wanted to read it. But then I saw the reviews on amazon and realized something fishy was going on. I took it off my wish list. When the lifestyle design bloggers started pointing me back to him I was loathe to find a SINGLE comment about what seemed to be just a huge marketing scam.
In short, thanks for adding your feedback about Ferriss, because I found only one blog entry on the net that was objective about him, and that exasperated me. Anyone who criticized him (which were few) got attacked by "omg just read his book, don't judge, he's so cool" comments. Not one example of anyone living their own "new life" based on his logic anywhere. It's refreshing to find one of my favorite bloggers writing refreshingly honest truth about Ferriss.
Posted by Cat on 01/09/2009 at 08:43pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I wanted to read all the comments … but quite frankly this is too much.
I have read 4HWW and I really liked it.
That doesn't mean that I agree with all what Tim said, is saying, will say, do think …
Just because the man is not behaving as we should expect (personnaly I don't know the guy so I can't say) that doesn't mean is book is not worth reading.
Nowadays people are looking at books or blogs and expect what our grand grand fathers and mothers found in religion : a road book for your entire life that you can follow faithfully.
Common, take everything with a grain of salt. Yes his book is full of good tips, and full of rubbish too.
For me his entire book should only be discarded if the guy can by classified as a certified asshole, otherwise we could learn something from this guy afterall :)
Posted by Cyril on 01/09/2009 at 08:58pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I'm so glad you got your feelings off your chest, and the way you did it was brilliant.
Kudos……………..:)
Posted by LisaNewton on 01/09/2009 at 10:04pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
thank you. that 4HWW crap has gotta be the most overrated book ever.
Posted by Andrew G.R. on 01/09/2009 at 10:38pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Thank you, thank you, thank you!
Finally one of the bloggers with name recognition comes out and says it.
I was appalled reading his book, finding out how he 'won' competitions. I felt dirtied by his advice. He more or less suggest exploiting loopholes for pretty much everything in life – his "business" of selling nutritional supplements is just one step above a scam, IMHO. He is advocating a life profiting off others, without contributing anything to humanity.
Posted by Robert 'Groby' Blum on 01/09/2009 at 10:44pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I thought Ferriss's book was pretty good. Parts of it were BS, but the core was pretty solid: pick a niche, learn how to make money from it, train inexpensive outsourced employees how to do almost all of what you do, eliminate all demands on your time that don't serve your goals, and use the time saved and money earned to move onto to your next passion. It's not all that new, but neither is it all that wrong – it's simply smart people employing leverage and focus in ways that the internet and globalization now make possible. Parts of what he suggests I've been doing since the mid 90s; some of the other parts looked like they might work.
Like a lot of people – yourself included – he presents some stuff that's worthwhile wrapped in a fair amount of BS. But, in all fairness, the woman who advises people that prevarication on resumes is the new way has very little business calling other people out on mendacity. There's a bit of the pot calling the kettle black going on here.
Posted by hard knocks on 01/09/2009 at 11:28pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Tim is an asshole. NICE piece.
Posted by oren on 01/10/2009 at 12:47am | permalink | Reply to this comment
I have no fucking clue who Tim Ferriss is, but he sounds like a complete dick. This type of post is why I read the internet, for gems like this.
Posted by Sean on 01/10/2009 at 04:46am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Very interesting post. It's obvious that Tim's a narcissist who values his own time more than that of others (he doesn't try to hide that), and you're right to call him on that, but his book is one of the most inspiring things I've ever read.
I'm not surprised that some idiots have screwed things up following his advice. Tim is really smart, and if you're not smart and ethically centered his advice can be dangerous. But not seeing what he presents is dangerous, too. The traditional corporate world is obviously not functioning well, and Tim presents a radically different approach to life where hard work is aligned with passion, where money is a tool rather than an objective, and where authority in business comes from genuine autonomous decisions rather than ladder-climbing. His go-it-alone approach can be seen as a weakness.
If you can present a feasible model for a work life of empowerment, balance, autonomy, passion, and excellence, PLUS mutual respect, meaningful relationships and strong values, you might have a bestseller, too.
Posted by 123fun on 01/10/2009 at 06:43am | permalink | Reply to this comment
hello there … as with Andrew I bought your book and Tim's online from the same site on the same day and then read both one after another.
In some ways I was mildly disappointed with both. But I learnt stuff from each.
No wonder when I emailed you and asked your thoughts on some of his ideas you were a bit short in your replies. But still you replied. When I emailed him seeking clarity on something I got nothing – not even the automated thingo.
Go figure … le
Posted by le on 01/10/2009 at 07:17am | permalink | Reply to this comment
I have found a new blog to subscribe to. This is absolutely brilliant. Thank you.
Posted by Dave on 01/10/2009 at 08:49am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Me too!
Posted by Personal Trainer on 01/13/2010 at 03:05am | permalink | Reply to this comment
I liked Tim's book; pretty funny and a handful of common sense ideas. Your comment about semantics is irrelevant. If you want to get real pedantic about it, I could say that when I woke up this Saturday morning and made myself a cup of tea, I was working. Then when I checked my personal email and paid some bills…I was working, etc. I intend on working for the rest of my life. I love working. However, I would much prefer to work towards something that is a passion of mine (tango, music, whatever it may be) than showing up to my "day job" 50 hours per week. That is what the book is about. I've also seen people work this way. My father does. He hasn't read the book…it's just the way he is.
I have to say, you sound bitter.
Posted by Magic on 01/10/2009 at 09:28am | permalink | Reply to this comment
I've actually met him and read his book. He admitted that 4HWW was the publisher's idea, not his, and that he didn't really love it, but acknowledged that he knew it would sell books and so went with it. Ironically, I only got his book after hearing him speak, because I was so turned off by the title initially.
He's a marketing genius and having talked to him talk about marketing, I can totally believe he's outsourced blog spamming. He's very deliberate in that sort of manner. You should also know, he's probably dancing around in glee over your post because he thinks any publicity is good publicity. If it gets one more person to buy his book, you can call him whatever you'd like.
At the end of the day, I agree with you that his system only works because he's not competing with others who are doing it/doing it to him. And he knows this, as was his point with the contest for his students to contact a famous person = most people won't act like he does, making it possible for the few who do to do it successfully.
I also agree with you that the communication on his timeframe is inconsiderate and a turn off. It only works for him because people want to talk to him. As one of the other posters noted, when someone low on the totem pole does it, others will just ignore them.
I also do not consider him trustworthy, as he publicized something that was meant to be confidential.
That said, even if he isn't a role model, he still talks to some interesting people and the idea of prioritizing goals and the concept of "lifestyle redesign" are still useful. I can't imagine stepping on others or diminishing the quality of relationships to achieve productivity is something I would feel good about in the end. But I also think that there's something about his assertiveness I can learn from.
Posted by J on 01/10/2009 at 11:23am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Penelope:
Love this post and am kind of bummed my comment will be so far down on the comment list.
This sounds like the classic Boomer/Xer split. The Xer mentality is "get your shit done, stop talking about, and don't preach to others on how to get their shit done – unless they're not getting their shit done (at which time you tell that person to get their shit done.).
I'm wondering if the sales differences between your books was about titles. He offered something everyone wants, but is impossible. Maybe the next edition of your book could be retitled the 3 hour work week. Add a line at the end that says "do all these things and don't call them work and voila the 3 hour work week."
Posted by GenerationXpert on 01/10/2009 at 12:08pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Thank you for coming out and saying this. I was interested when he was making the rounds of all the blogs, but didn't get very far into the book before I realized nothing he recommended was practical. He bugged me in a general sense too, but I could never put my finger on why until I read your post.
Posted by Gretchen on 01/10/2009 at 01:24pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Penelope, you are a bad ass. Thank you for being you.
Posted by Amialya on 01/10/2009 at 01:42pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I have no idea who Tim Ferriss is, but I know this post took a lot of time and thought and experience to write. The five points are relevant, even if I don't know Tim Ferriss. They don't call you brazen for nothing, but that's why I keep coming.
Posted by jenx67 on 01/10/2009 at 04:30pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
An entire 1132 word blog post devoted solely to someone you hate?
Lady you got issues.
Posted by venhi on 01/10/2009 at 06:53pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Penelope,
I have not read the book but if it does as much damage as the 1 Minute Manager I could join the anti-Tim movement.
The amount of hate you have for him reminds me of how angry I become when someone takes my ideas that I have innocently disucussed over coffee or cocktails and pretends that they are their own and they get promoted. I liked the freedom you displayed by laying him out publicly and I have no doubt he is a douchebag as others have suggested. I wonder if you will get a blocked email response fro him now? AND I wondered if one of the reasons you hate him is that he gets to you at the time you have your defenses down and takes advantage of you-every time and you then have to be pissed at yourself first. I agree, it is him not you!
Posted by Bridget on 01/10/2009 at 07:15pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Hi, P. Your points are perfectly valid and I suppose using Tim as an example helps it come alive for anyone who feels the same way about him, though it does make you look a bit small in spirit and temperament. An alias would've made your points just as well, with the subject easily identifiable to those who loathe Tim as you do.
Posted by MW on 01/10/2009 at 07:25pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
This is pretty embarrassing. I have read both books several times, and see the title of this blog a desperate call for more google hits when someone searches Tim Ferriss!
All of the dimwits in the room, please understand that the term "4 hour work week" is the result of Tim's lifestyle design principles. No different than a race car driver's goal to run a 3 second quarter mile. Is it possible, probably not, but it is important to strive towards that.
Also, to those that mention negatives of excerpts from 4HWW (such as the kickboxing mention being negative). You will be destined to achieve mediocrity in life. You must understand the rules in place, whether in business or any other endeavor and strive to make them work for you.
Posted by sminetti on 01/10/2009 at 07:25pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Wait–isn't this the guy who says you should outsource everything? The one who has MBA students outsourcing their job searches? I just did a blog post on that. I didn't know there was a whole book. That's tragic.
Posted by Kerry on 01/10/2009 at 08:43pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Tim Ferriss has jumped the shark. It just happens to coincide with a good blog post about what a douchebag he is.
Posted by Jason on 01/10/2009 at 09:12pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Hey Penelope, I like your points – I need to improve my Time Management. Can I ask you why you chose to mention him & his book, thereby giving him more exposure?
Posted by Happy D on 01/10/2009 at 10:50pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Amazing how insecure and childish you sound. You make good points on time management, but was it really appropriate to repetitively say how much u hate the guy?
Posted by Josi on 01/11/2009 at 12:50am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Tim is a lousy asshole who got lucky. If assholes like him succeed it makes the whole system rotten. Its not just him but anybody who says the book is a nice read (wtf) is an asshole too. Sportsmanship was blasted by this ball-less asshole when he pushed to win. He is to be despised ..kudos to you!
Posted by Xencor on 01/11/2009 at 02:17am | permalink | Reply to this comment
I'm so glad you mentioned the kickboxing thing. I had to stop reading the book when I got to that part and just thought — "what a douche" — I'm glad I didn't waste time finishing it.
Posted by Justin Ward on 01/11/2009 at 12:24pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Never heard of this guy before your blog.
Clicked on his website…. wish I hadn't.
Seems like a dufus, but you have given him even more publicity.
I wish you thought I was a dufus. I could use the press.
Keep up the good work.
Posted by principalspage on 01/11/2009 at 12:55pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
The direct link to the research on certified assholes in the blogosphere that Cat mentioned:
http://www.theonion.com/content/radio_news/researchers_discover_massive
Posted by Elsworth Toohey on 01/11/2009 at 02:14pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Hey Penelope-
I agree with you that Tim's attitude seems cocky and abrasive – as much as I liked his book, that came through consistently and I found it off-putting – it's just not my style. I also was bothered by the kickboxing thing in particular, because even though I see his point, it's so contrary to the point of the sport that I wonder "What's a championship worth if you win that way?" Just not how I'd choose to live my life (although I'm NOT surprised that K.Rae's lawyer friend liked it…those lawyers and their abstractions.)
Still, I wanted to comment on your point about semantics – I'm pretty confident that I could scale back the actual time that my current job requires, maybe not to 4 hours, but you know what I mean – but the fact that I work hard at the things that I like doesn't mean they're "work."
For instance: if I managed to scale my current work down to 4 hours using the book's advice, and spent the rest of my time writing about the environment and scuba diving, I would not feel like I was working, even if I got paid for it.
The fact that Tim's hobbies happen to be things that might be noxious tedium to the rest of us doesn't disprove the point. Considering how much he seems to enjoy attention, I imagine the book tour and relentless self-promotion were some of the most fun he's had.
Posted by Jeff on 01/11/2009 at 03:26pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Penelope, I have always respected you and I loved your book too. But c'mon gal, please don't spread hatred! Unfortunately what you've done here is validated a bunch of angry folks who couldn't adapt his advice to their own lives to start calling Tim Ferriss a dick, an a-hole, a d-bag, etc. Not sure how productive that is.
Take everything with a grain of salt, and while a lot of 4HWW and the way Tim lives his life/runs his business may not work for you or it may even upset you, the same is true of your book/blog/column for any other human being. Ferriss uses a lot of shortcuts and loopholes, but that doesn't mean people can't use them for good. Personally I am thankful for a lot of his ideas. Since reading his book and following his blog, I've created a business that I can run from anywhere and I'm in Asia living an incredible life that I never would have imagined possible before.
You've successfully adapted a few of his tactics here though to create some perfect linkbait:
* Turn everything into a controversy
* Be divisive when possible
* Assemble an army
Posted by Cody McKibben on 01/11/2009 at 03:37pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
God, thank you. I hate Tim Ferriss. Why? Because everyone I know loves him, and when I say I have to stay late at work to get something done, I get reminded about the 4HWW. Well guess what – I LOVE my job, and I LOVE working 40+ hours a week. Yes, there are parts I hate, but that's life. People like Tim take the meaningful and interesting work I do and make it seem like I'm a slave to the grind. I hope he doesn't tell his doctor that she wasted all her time getting her qualifications.
Ugh.
And please, everything is work. To claim otherwise is to assume people are morons.
I think the reason why people like Tim and his book is because he makes it ok to think about work as not-work. Really, you needed a book to tell you? Maybe I should take it back about people being morons…
Posted by deepali on 01/11/2009 at 08:18pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Can you cut off his email responses through your ISP or router? Have your IT staff work on that. You should be able to cut out email from certain addresses (label it as spam). Just do it.
Posted by Robert Wright on 01/12/2009 at 01:24am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Sigh. Someone else is more successful at passing out terrible career advice and Penny has bad case of jealousy. All Tim is doing is institutionalizing "weaselness" at work. These weasels usually are caught when they get enough exposure then they're fired or subjected to public humiliation by demotion — and everyone loves it when a weasel goes down.
Tim's advice may be awful, but how about putting up real alternatives instead of constantly encouraging Gen-Y to be as self-centered (and therefore as unemployable as possible) as they want to be?
Posted by Reality Check on 01/12/2009 at 11:29am | permalink | Reply to this comment
This incredibly entertaining post and all the comments are proof positive that controversy still fuels a lively conversation. Well done!
Posted by Jonathan - Advanced Life Skills on 01/12/2009 at 12:42pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Hi Penelope,
Thank you for this brave, hilarious and honest post. I've been waiting for someone to tell the truth about Tim Ferris ever since his book came out. And I couldn't believe all the slavish attention that he was getting from people all over the internet with not a peep about how this particular emperor was stark naked!
As you say, there is no way in hell that you can be as successful as he's become without working like a maniac. And then totally spinning it to look like he is living a life of leisure ( also known as lying).
The thing that bugs me the most about him is that he is the epitome of the kind of smarmy, self centered, narcissistic, little boy, self serving, winner take all bullshit that has unfortunately been the template for success in the western world. And it's exactly those types of attitudes, with their concomitant disregard for relationship, that have gotten us in our current economic mess.
So thank you again for speaking up and for reiterating the values
( doing work you love, right livelihood, empathy, realness, compassion, community and respect for others) that are so dear to my heart. And that I am hoping will be the NEW definition and template for what it takes to be a success and to live a good life!
Posted by chris Zydel on 01/12/2009 at 12:59pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Sorry, I can't join the Penelope-love here.
This is the first time I've read the blog, and probably the last. I haven't read Penelope's book. But I'm unimpressed by the ranting in this post. This, if anything, appears to be the new "Generation Y" model of communicating. It's like we're all on some stupid SURVIVOR: CAREER reality show and we have to listen to everybody whine about why so-and-so made them feel bad and stole their milkshake.
Is this the business world or is this the 8th grade?
Penelope, you come across as really petty and small. Next time, try being objectively critical of his ideas, not subjectively critical of him as a person.
I'd don't love or hate Tim Ferriss. I've read his book, and I found some useful things in it. There are also some not useful things. He certainly gives you some things to think about. I've taken what is useful and discarded the rest.
Posted by Gina on 01/12/2009 at 03:01pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
God bless you for writing this post. I just started listening to The Four-Hour Workweek on my iPod, and I already think he's a tool. The thing that bothers me is this work avoidance thing. Personally, I'm self-employed because I like what I do. I might do things a little differently if I were independently wealthy, but mostly, I started freelancing so I could write about a broader range of topics, and I love the things I do. This whole idea that work is to be avoided at all costs makes me angry. I want to know how to bring more love to my work, not abandon it.
Posted by Heather on 01/12/2009 at 04:02pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Thank you! Finally someone called Tim on his sloppy use of the word "work." Four-hours my ass! Just the amount of hours he puts into networking alone blow his theory out of the water.
And I totally agree about his loophole habit: distasteful in the extreme, and enough to make me very wary of any other advice he was giving.
Posted by Alora on 01/12/2009 at 04:19pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
owo. incredible post.
Posted by jcg1013 on 01/12/2009 at 04:23pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I was wondering what the secret could be to a 4-hour workweek. Thanks for saving me the time reading his book!
Posted by Norman on 01/12/2009 at 06:24pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Maybe Tim is lonely and looking was for some kindness when he asked you to go for coffee. If he's not good at relationships maybe there is something that you can teach him instead of so publicly hating him. To me, you sound bitter, jealous and sharp. Instead of being hateful, why not try being kind?
Posted by Carol on 01/12/2009 at 07:06pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
jesus this is the greatest bullshit ive ever read. do you hate yourself? everything you seem to hate about tim is exactly what's wrong with you
i like this one "3. Self-centered people are more likely to waste your time". You go to lengths to identify yourself as a completely self centered person. You say that Tim tricked you into getting coffee with him, but you equally tricked tim in your self centered way, becuase you only went to see the other people he 'mentioned'. I would call that a complete self centered b**ch move.
Congrats, you're the essence of hypocrisy
Posted by Alex on 01/12/2009 at 09:44pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I admire you very much, but I think this post was beneath a woman of your talent. I don't doubt that what you say is true, as I went right to Amazon and other Internet sites after reading your post to see reviews of his book (which, by the way, I never heard of until I read you your blog, so YOU are a much bigger influence on me than he will ever be). It is apparent from your posting, the various reviews and the comments here that Tim is full of baloney. I will never read his book now; thanks for saving my time. But that doesn't justify the nastiness and vitriol that you exhibited. Call me old-fashioned, but I think there was a more dignified and classier way to make your point.
Posted by Pat Rocchi on 01/13/2009 at 10:05am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Hi Penelope, I have not always agreed with everything you've posted, but I've always admired how bold and frank you are… and this post is truly awesome and appreciated. Thank you for challenging the Four-Hour Workweek concept so directly. I have been thinking about how I can be more fearless in my own writing and networking, and this post is a great example to consider in that regard.
Posted by Emily Stoddard Furrow on 01/13/2009 at 05:48pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Bravo – as you'll find in my recent email to you, way to state your opinion in an open and honest way (while giving Tim credit where he deserves) and not coming off as petty. You make salient points, and I think it would be interesting if Tim came and addressed them.
Posted by Theresa on 01/14/2009 at 03:48am | permalink | Reply to this comment
You sound pretty passionate. The opposite of indifferent. Are you sure this isn't a buried desire to sleep with him? ….I'm just sayin'.
Posted by Ashtacular on 01/14/2009 at 07:16am | permalink | Reply to this comment
This section of your blog was like a magnet drawing my mouse pointer to the link to his website, then his website. Nothing like "Hate" in a title to stimulate interest. Hoping this was a deal on your part to get his bloggers of your site. Thought your (audio)book was great, just finished it.
Posted by Gerry on 01/14/2009 at 11:37pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
More of this, please. Great, passionate writing.
Posted by Kalle on 01/15/2009 at 08:00am | permalink | Reply to this comment
I had almost unsubscribed to your blog because of your constant posts about your personal relationships. If I wanted that junk, I'd watch a soap opera and not subscribe to a career blog. However, I am glad I have not unsubscribed yet because I have been waiting for someone to call Tim out as a narcissistic jerk.
I was intrigued by the book enough to encourage me to subscribe to his feed, but when he actually recommended borrowing key vacation materials (binoculars for birdwatching in Costa Rica) so that you could pack light, I realized his only concern is himself. I can imagine Tim selecting a nice older couple (a mark if you will) with nice things and ingratiating himself in advance to borrow their nice equipment at the right moment. Why not pack even lighter and just bring a memory card and use someone's camera for your photos? What a tool!
If he is making the money he claims in his book from the supplements, why is he working so damn hard? There are only two options – he is lying about the money or he is an attention whore. If it was truly about the lifestyle, he would be having a fantastic time on that money relaxing somewhere right now.
Posted by Brett on 01/15/2009 at 08:29pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I read Tim's book, or I should say I listened to it. If I am being honest I have to say that I enjoyed it very much and it gave me some great new ideas.
For example, I immediately looked into hiring a personal assistant from India, and of course when I looked into the firms recommended by Tim, it was obvious that he either owned them or was getting paid referral fees for recommending them.
I remember at the time comparing Tim to Robert Allen the author of the One Minute Millionaire. I absolutely despise Robert Allen he is a bottom feeder. But I have to admit, I like Tim's style. I have never met him personally and maybe he is an asshole, but he seems to be enjoying his life. The question I have is if your working 100 hours per week doing what you love is it really work? And I guess that is the point.
One more point about relationships. I was recently reading Matt Mullenweg's Blog (The Founder of Wordpress) and he had photos of himself and Tim Ferris on vacation in Greece. Now which one of them get's the most out of that relationship? And if Tim is so poor with people, why is he sitting at a cafe overlooking the Mediterranean with Matt Mullenweg? Just random thoughts – sorry!
So in summary – Thanks for this post, it was very fun to read and I agree with all of your points about relationships, but I do think we should all be trying to find what we love to do and work hard at making those our day job.
Posted by Alan on 01/16/2009 at 11:07am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Ironically I think Tim would agree with most of your tips, but he'd phrase them in a slightly different way; as you so adequately stated, the issue is semantics.
I do appreciate Tim's advice on outsourcing because it is intended to allow people more time to do what they love. Tim calls doing what you love not-work. In contrast, you classify anything that is required to achieve an objective as work. Once again, Semantics. The argument works both ways.
I think you are right to point out that Tim's book is not about working 4 hours a week. It's about making time to do what you love. Whether or not we want to call what we love "work" is up to the individual. You say tomato, he says tomato.
Posted by Phil on 01/16/2009 at 12:32pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
The most valuable thing I got out of his ZenHabits interview was a link to you. I know nothing of the person and reputation of Tim Ferris (except that he can't possibly have a family, a pet, or even a houseplant), but this post had me gasping then laughing my ass off in turns. I'm off to peruse your book…not his. :^)
Posted by Anonymous Me on 01/16/2009 at 01:20pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
A very good post. Ferriss is obviously narcissistic and it doesn't take a genius to see that. Gotta hand it to him, though…he sure did haul in a bunch of people.
I can't help thinking that one day his theories will come back to haunt him. Y'know…what goes around, comes around?
Hate is not healthy, though. Leads only to more stress and probably ulcers. Serves no useful purpose and makes life miserable. Try "intensly dislike".
Posted by CherylK on 01/16/2009 at 01:24pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Thank you for this honest, well written post. This is this best "review" The 4HWW I have read so far!
Posted by Carla on 01/16/2009 at 03:01pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I've read Tim's book and see how the application the principles can actually free up the time for the relationships that you're talking about. Would I sacrifice time with friends and extra-curricular activities in the name of embarking on adventures with my immediate family to distant lands?
Absolutely.
Posted by Jon Hartman on 01/16/2009 at 03:19pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
These are great time management tips. I personally like #4, "Productivity is about meeting your goals, not getting out of doing work"
I couldn't agree more with that statement. The more time and energy you can focus on what you need to get done, the better off you will be in the long run.
Posted by Crystal on 01/17/2009 at 06:28pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
1. Hate is a strong word. Using it the way you did in this post is immature and link bait. Of course, Tim's success is built on strong pro/con feelings toward him. You've played into his marketing plan.
2. Tim's thesis is to figure out what we truly want out of life, determine what it takes to accomplish that, set rules to minimize distractions, and work our tail off to achieve our goals.
For those of you who think you have to work 17 hour days staring at your computer while chained to your desk to be "successful", have at it. Lose your physical and mental health in the process.
The smart, independent-thinking folks set their own rules.
Life is so much more than slaving away for some corporate title or $5,000 pay raise. Tim's ideas help us to see that and show us ways to focus only on work essentials, thus freeing up time so that we can actually live life to its fullest.
Posted by Jesse Hines on 01/18/2009 at 05:58pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
"The vanity of others only offends when it conflicts with our own vanity."
You sound like a bit of a bitch for trying to use Tim to meet "cool" people. I think both of you are the sorts of people the world could do without.
Offense intended.
Posted by chris on 01/19/2009 at 08:06am | permalink | Reply to this comment
I read 4HWW, and I think he makes valid points about not taking time to live now, and about the value of time vs. money. Though once I realized how much time he spent on promotion, I figured he was being disingenuous and narcissistic.
Your "review" though is right on point though.
Posted by Fred S on 01/19/2009 at 11:43am | permalink | Reply to this comment
P,
1st time responder but I feel like I've know you forever (well, at least since the Biz 2.0 days). You know I love the snot out of you babe but look, taking this conflict public in this manner just is not doing you any good. Not edgy, just angry. I hate to see you this way.
Read Tim's book and his techniques are taken to an extreme but can't I tell you how many dopes I know that take it to the other extreme and get absolutely nothing done in their lives.
Talk to me. There's more going on here than blog spamming. I know things have been rough lately but this will pass. 50 years from now you won't give a $h_it about Tim, funding, credit crunches or 20/20. Life is good if you let go a little. Peace & Love.
Posted by DaveHerbert on 01/19/2009 at 09:08pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I enjoyed the 4-hour work week as it offered me an idealized version of redressing my life-work balance and giving me more control over my time. What with his "DEAL" methodology ending in Liberation, pure poetry!
The approach that Tim Ferriss took to win the kick-boxing is fine if it applies to how you deal with your competitors (stay just within the rules) and definitely NOT how you deal with your customers or even your suppliers – after all that where you need to develop the relationships
Posted by Russell Jamieson on 01/20/2009 at 05:00am | permalink | Reply to this comment
I've never commented here before, Penelope, but I felt I had to today, as you've put into words the burning hatred I've developed for Tim Ferriss.
I try to like him, really, I do. I've read his book. I read his blog, until she started talking about his almighty sperm and how he was storing it so his female friends would have the honor, someday, of inseminating themselves with it if he dies in a freak motorcycle accident or something.
I think he's a smart marketer. I think he's got some good ideas. I also think he's an slimy little man who treats people as ends, not means.
I keep wanting to write a blog post about him and call it "Getting Ahead by Being a Dick."
Posted by Lise on 01/20/2009 at 12:14pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Absolutely brilliant post.
I've been wondering for ages what drives corporate execs to hold this guy up as some sort of guru.
Thanks Penelope. Keep it up.
Posted by Jim B on 01/20/2009 at 01:09pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I've gone back and forth on Ferriss… he has some interesting things to say, but he does come across as kind of a schmuck.
One thing though, as a lifelong martial arts fan and sometimes practitioner, his tactics for winning the San Shou tourney he was in – cutting weight and knocking folks off the platform/out of the "ring" – are legit. The fact that he's technically not very good and very one-dimensional notwithstanding.
But what is total and absolute BS, martial arts related, is his claim that he was a "Cage fighter in Japan, vanquisher of four world champions (MMA)." That claim still appears on one of his official bio pages, but has been removed from another. Because while he may have trained in Japan with some Shooto folks, his claim is vaguely and sleazily written to give the impression that he was a professional fighter and champion. Which he very much was not.
Posted by Rob on 01/20/2009 at 07:25pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I have mixed feelings about the 4 hour workweek. I kind of put TF on par with the Girls Gone Wild guy – they both found a trick to get rich, and both come off as kind of sleazy.
As a business owner I'm a very by-the-books kind of guy.
Posted by John Moore on 01/20/2009 at 08:42pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Haters – no matter what you do they will be there. Your post on Ferris is disgusting really. I cant stand people that go around the world tearing others down. You carry with you this negative energy (derived directly from your own insecurity. As a consequence, you just suck basically.
Penelope, lose the anger/hate/jealosy. It's obvious YOUR MISERABLE. What a shame for someone so intellectually curious and with such potential. Life is too short to spend on miserable people like you.
good luck and do what you can to find some real love in your life – it's your only hope to putting an end to such negative energy in your soul.
Posted by lance stratton on 01/20/2009 at 10:10pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I love all these people who think that just because Penelope dislikes Tim, it must mean she's not getting enough lovin'. Because obviously, when a woman doesn't worship a successful (albeit slimy) man, it's all about her and how much she's not getting laid.
Grow up.
Posted by Lise on 02/03/2009 at 12:22pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I'd say that Tim is a mixed character, pushing some useful/smart stuff, as well as some highly questionable stuff. If you look at his Twitter account, he is living his ideas about efficiency to the last consequence: He may be the only person on there with 0 followees, though he has managed to draw ~ 14k followers from his blog, etc. who supposedly hang on his every tweet from his micro-blogging "megaphone".
Funny thing is, whatever time he thinks he's saving, the question is: to what end. Someone like Scoble, who is running around constantly at all of the conventions and interviewing tech people, is a father, AND supposedly spent 2,500 hours engaging on Twitter and FriendFeed in 2008, has about 4 times the Twitter followers, because he engages in thousands of conversations. Tim's approach is really the antithesis of social media.
And to think that quite a few other people lead expressed, authentic, and successful/purposeful lives without all of his machinations and "lifestyle designing", which apparently includes eating micro-waved egg-white breakfast gruel of sorts to save even more time. Not clear what for, there are plenty of high-rollers/jet-setters/highly successful people who find time in their busy schedules to eat a dignified breakfast…
I'll add one more example under the insincere/calculating rubric (which I believe really turns people off in the long run), relating to his book's success:
Tim did a full scale "list-owner book promo blitz to get Amazon Top10" (I was on one of those calls through Mike Filsaime's list I think, and there were others, overall likely going out to more than 1M list subscribers, in effect massively gaming the Amazon Top 10 sales rankings through tightly timed sales flooding), and then said to Robert Scoble in an interview in response to Robert's question about 4 Hour Workweek's success: "Yeah, out of nowhere, TOTALLY unexpected…". Watch it here: http://is.gd/gE7d
Follow me on Twitter, I follow back:
twitter.com/AlexSchleber
Posted by Alex Schleber on 01/20/2009 at 10:34pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
It's called work because they have to pay you to do it. If you want to do it and would do it even they didn't pay you then it isn't 'work'. If you have other things you would sooner be doing, then 'work' is what you do to earn time/money whatever, so that you can do those other things.
Used to be people had to spend their time hunting and gathering, just to get food and other resources. No choice. Then some people started 'farming' and some got other people to do their farming for them. Result, some people had time to do other things, art for instance. And so it goes.
If Tim or anyone else chooses to occupy themselves a lot of the time with Tango or Big Game Fishing or painting landscapes it doesn't matter, they don't have to do that. No one has to pay them to do it, they choose to.
So, the choice or the ability/option of having a choice is what makes the difference. I have read Tim's book and have found some useful points and views in it. That doesn't mean I want to be like him, but I sure would like to have more choice of how I 'spend' my time. I'm 'working' on it.
Posted by Robbo on 01/21/2009 at 07:49am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Very interesting read. Of course, like everyone else, I have read the 4-hour work week.
I think you make a very good point to the fact that it probably requires a lot more time than 4 hours to create what Tim has created.
Posted by Tajwar on 01/21/2009 at 08:53am | permalink | Reply to this comment
I choose not to choose life!
Posted by Malerd on 01/22/2009 at 05:12am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Wow. You use the word "hate" in your title, and end it with saying he is not kind or good or connected?
I don't think I've ever read something so unkind, not good, or disconnected in my life.
And you might want to edit your own post, you misspelled his name in item #2. Or maybe that was intentional to help with the Googling factor…
I'm trying to teach my three-year old to be kind to others, it amazes me when (educated) adults act like children. Sigh.
Posted by Marcie on 01/22/2009 at 01:55pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Marcie, chill out. This is not the kids playground, she was just expressing how she really feels and obviously, that type of writing gets a good amount of interest (i see 200+ replies)
The whole world needn't be sugar coated and polite.
Posted by gregcnorca*aim on 01/29/2009 at 08:27pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I don't know which was more entertaining, the post itself or all the comments.
Either way, I'll be back for more of Penelope's writing and stick with my previous decision to give Ferriss a miss.
Posted by curiously random on 01/22/2009 at 08:25pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Penelope, you *need* to hear this Tim Ferriss parody:
http://www.kungfugrippe.com/post/72853946/14-second-work-year
Posted by Josh on 01/24/2009 at 07:19pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
The point of 4 hour work week is to get a life while you're working not work as an end all to having a life. You can look at just about everything we do as being either work or play; why not tip the balance and do more of what you love? As someone who has always been into cheating time to more life (especially in the days I worked for someone else), I found Tim's book inspiring; don't particularly care how chooses to live his personal life.
Posted by Kathryn on 01/24/2009 at 08:26pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Did you know that Tim Ferris is a bonafide asshole?
Posted by gresham on 01/26/2009 at 04:14pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Also, lance stratton – above – is a bonafide asshole and Tim Ferris' official sucker-in-chief
Posted by gresham on 01/26/2009 at 04:18pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I just found this article. I am amazed at how long you were able to contain yourself. I looked over his blog for ten minutes and wanted to vomit. I could not stop thinking 'what a hideous looking, short person'. Besides personally finding him to be an unattractive, self-absorbed, Napoleon complexed little child, I was surprised to read here how people were lost at the way he won his kickboxing competition. He lost me at 'Personal outsourcing firm in India'. Not to disrespect people from India since I have some really awesome friends from there, but even they agree they are not too great on the phone. I thought it to be outright thoughtless and disrespectful of people trying to get in touch with him. To be given someone they potentially cannot understand? He is obviously too cheap to care about the fact that people have been in need of employment in the US long before the economic crisis. And Wow! Neither business nor a fan can even reach him by email? Oh yeah, great guy.
Posted by Andrea on 01/26/2009 at 05:21pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I don't know where to begin. I'll keep this short. Tim has his assistants help him with time consuming tasks (research, etc.), when fluent English is necessary (email response) he has a Canadian assistant do it for him. He has the email responder set up to inform people that email is NOT the same as IM and should not be expected to be returned instantly (if you have an emergency CALL him).
In point 4 you say that Tim has a 100-hour work week some times (due to training for Tango, kickboxing, etc.) What Tim is trying to tell you in the book is that he ENJOYS these things. It's not that he wants to get out of working hard for something, it's that he wants to get out of the office so he can pursue some passions (tango, kickboxing, etc.). Many of his passions include minimal work such as wine tasting, traveling, trying new restaurants.
It's not redefining work. It's freeing up your time so you can still get paid, AND pursue your passions.
I suggest reading the book again and see if you have the same opinion. If so, that's fine…you're entitled to it. Just don't let the hating get out of hand.
Posted by Mike on 01/27/2009 at 11:45pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Having disdain go unfiltered is ok. She said she worked with him before, not just read his book/blog once. Ergo, the comments are warranted, seeing its her blog, and a recount of her direct experience rather than a simple one-off impression.
Posted by gregcnorca*aim on 01/29/2009 at 08:31pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
You sound very angry, and I think you have reason to be.
Good Stuff.
I think goals are so important in time management. You have to know where you're going if you're going to manage to get there.
Posted by Joe Casum on 02/01/2009 at 04:59pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
fantastic stuff! to be really annoyed listen to this interview. No matter how cool or productive he is, his daily routine is quite sad.
Posted by david on 02/02/2009 at 09:10pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Wow.. this is my first time on this blog and the first post I read. I will definitely be coming back. My feeling was that most people worshiped this guy.
Posted by Diana on 02/03/2009 at 12:20am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Having read 4hww (from the library), I can only imagine that he unleashed his army of outsourced lackeys to pimp his book. Clearly he should have sprung for more original comments:)
Posted by Doug on 02/04/2009 at 12:56am | permalink | Reply to this comment
my reading went:
————–
tim, me
————–
tim, everybody
————–
then i scrolled down here and left this
Posted by General Sluicington on 02/04/2009 at 04:29pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Penelope,
I have to step to Tim's defense on the coffee trick; you are adorable and worth spending coffee time with, so however he managed to pull that off, I'll give him the credit for doing it.
Relationships are much easier to maintain when you are doing what you enjoy, which Tim does while the cash comes in from a company he does not have to "manage" in order to produce cash. And if you are good at relationships, you know instinctively that having "free" time, better put, control of what you can choose to do, you can choose to spend that time with someone that interests you, like an attractive and intelligent woman over coffee.
I doubt semantics is truly the cause of Tim dramatically changing his income and gaining the ability to pursue what interests him. His book is subtitled "Escape 9-5 . . . " which I think he's done. Work is doing what others want for compensation, "non-work" is situating yourself so that money comes in regardless of what you personally do, and that's what he's worked to. Tim could have the flu for weeks or die and no one would know it. Despite attempts to raise him on email.
Nonetheless, I find you intriguing and have bookmarked your site.
Mookie
Posted by JustMookie on 02/15/2009 at 02:06pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Tim is a master at selling and marketing. I read his book and I have heard him speak. His tactics and strategies for self-promotion are effective, just like the other professional self-promoters like Oprah, Madonna, Tony Robbins, Obama, Suze Orman etc. It is called Branding and he is well on his way to becoming a household name for a new generation with a new voice and a new perspective.
Posted by Brenda on 02/16/2009 at 05:50pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
My grandmother used to have an expression for people like Mr. Ferris. "Yeah, that boy rode out West on a covered wagon, shot a wild indian and shook hands with the President, didn't he?"
I won't say that the Ferris book was of no value. It did spur me on to a freelance writing business that has fed and housed me pretty well over the past eighteen months. However, I do think that Ferris is a bit short on substance.
Posted by Noel Lynne Figart on 02/20/2009 at 04:29pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
All due respect, you sound like a jealous girlfriend. You got an auto-email from him because you proactively emailed him…TWICE! (acording to your summation)
Listen, ALL self-help books prey on people who are desparate enough to seek guidance from a stranger, so it is what it is. Personally, I wouldn't get any satisfaction from finding a loophole in the rules (kickboxing), but can't you agree that there is some merit to the story? That often times people get stuck because they are not looking beyond the same strategies as a zillion others, so why expect a different outcome?
To say that you HATE him (which is exactly what you say)sounds like jealousy, envy, and a case of 'it should've been me' syndrome.
Posted by chris on 02/23/2009 at 05:07pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
He makes some interesting suggestions in his book though comes across as an utterly contemptible git who has spawned equally reprehensible followers with their lame 'get rich quick' schemes and confidence tricks. His 4 hour work week leaves far too much time for him to wank on about how great he thinks he is. Give me Bill Gates or Martha Stewart or any other great American Entrepreneur over this Second-hander. That kickboxing win is absolutely disgusting – he's actually proud of it! What a complete fake, I hope he gets a good beating sometime, jumped up prick. He's brought little of value into this world.
Discovered your site by chance Penelope, is very good mate :)
Posted by JdawgNZ on 02/23/2009 at 08:12pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Great post Penelope. Just discovered your site via a friend's referral.
I don't throw the hate word around and certainly wouldn't throw it at Tim as the principles I've learned in his book have considerably change my life for the better.
I think more people have something to gain from Tim's life-in-the-extreme then they have to lose by becoming caught in a sort of meta-pursuit.
I've always figured Tim's life is either A) Nowhere near as extremely productive as he makes it out to be. (My life is certainly less interesting than my Twitter followers may believe it to be.) or B) Actually is as extremely productive as he makes it out to be.
If the first, then more power to Tim for leveraging semantics and marketing his product (himself) so well.
If the later, than it is thus a life I wish not to have, but this is strictly a personal choice stemming from my unique desired outcome.
Productivity is, for me, simply a means to an end. The end being positive experience which can and does happen inside of every moment…be it on either side of the 80 or the 20.
Posted by JP Morgan Jr on 02/24/2009 at 07:45am | permalink | Reply to this comment
I just finished reading the 4-hour workweek and I have to admit that it has given me hope that someday I'll be able to "retire" on passive income. However, my logical side says that it will only be possible by working my butt off for the next 10 years or so.
The book probably caters to the "get rich quick" crowd that aren't willing to put in this effort. Most people will read this book, but few will actually make it happen for them. There are dreamers and there are doers – that's what it comes down to.
Posted by Steve on 02/24/2009 at 10:54am | permalink | Reply to this comment
This post was awesome–thank you!
One other point: Tim Ferris' approach is a slap in the face to freelance writers and researchers in the U.S. By outsourcing these tasks to India, how can we compete? By taking low-ball jobs off Craigslist? (That's Tim's other suggested source of outsourcing help. Figures.)
And as for relationships–well, those take "work," don't they?
Frankly, Ferris' life on endless world tour, constantly seeking new "vocations" (i.e., unpaid work), sounds exhausting to me. The jet lag alone would kill me.
I don't care that Tim Ferris wants to live this way. I just don't think he's someone worth emulating.
Posted by Debbi on 02/25/2009 at 04:31pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I'm a freelance writer, Debbi, and I'll be honest, I'm really not all that afraid of foreign competition. I'm an American, but 3/4 of my own clients aren't in the US, anyway! So, I'm the "outsourced competition" what with the pound and the Australian dollar being stronger than the US dollar at the moment.
The whole "outsource to India" thing? It's unlikely in the extreme that anyone but someone whose first language IS English can possibly compete with my work. If it isn't and they're THAT good, they deserve to be competition, and I'm a better writer for that extra spur.
The point of going freelance, IMHO, is that you're willing to slug it out in the free market. If you need a protected job, I don't think being a writer is really a good career match.
Posted by Noel Lynne Figart on 02/25/2009 at 04:47pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I'm not as afraid for myself as I am for the independent information professionals I know. Most of my writing clients have come from referrals and in-person networking–in short, from relationships I've built with others (the very approach that Ferriss shuns). But things like market research, legal research, database construction and maintenance, Web design–these are all things the Indian virtual assistants claim they can do. I'm probably overstating things by saying a domestic worker has no competitive edge, but encouraging people to seek cheap labor (either foreign or domestic and without explaining the additional value you lose by doing so) is, at the very least, a simplistic approach. If enough people believe they should follow Ferriss' advice, it just hurts us all, by turning our services into commodities with work going to the lowest bidder.
I know what you're saying about the issue of quality. I know I can write better than a cheaper writer who doesn't have my command of the English language. However, Ferriss doesn't seem to care about this. In fact, in one part of his book, he actually says that his virtual assistants in India "are more than capable of writing this section, so I'll just mention two guidelines and leave the mental hernia of detail work to them." That's a direct quote from the book and it shows how little Ferriss cares about the reader. He can't even be bothered to write his own book. He'd rather spend that time watching Family Guy. (That's also straight from the book.)
Posted by Debbi on 02/25/2009 at 07:29pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Having employees is basically outsourcing anyway. It may shorten your profit margin but it increases your ability to do work, effectively increasing your earning potential.
Some things definitely should be outsourced though, like a good massage. No-one wants to do that by themselves.
Posted by Sexy Jessie on 03/01/2009 at 11:44pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Above comment very rude and stupid. And I love how the rudest assholes on here never have a link where we can see why their opinion matters AT ALL. Perhaps there is a connection between being unnecessarily rude, and tiny penises?
Posted by Ashtacular on 03/04/2009 at 08:11pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
And by the way, Ms. Trunk—you are smokin' hot, and I have above average intelligence.
Posted by Ashtacular on 03/04/2009 at 08:14pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Tim distinguishes between a muse and a vocation.
A muse makes your basic money you need to live your lifestyle design now — which usually takes less money than we think. This muse is what takes 4 hours a week.
A vocation is your mission or passion. You may or may not make money with it. But your vocation is what you choose to invest your whole self into regardless of money. Your muse is what allows you to immerse yourself in your vocation — at least until it pays you enough to replace the muse.
Tim's supplement business is his muse. The 4HWW phenomenon is his vocation.
The problem I have with the 4HWW is that it takes a whole lot of people usually working full time to make your muse run. Who do the outsourcers outsource their work to?
This doesn't make the concept evil, but it does show its shortcomings as a lifestyle unattainable by most. Now, for those who use their muse to free themselves up to give to the world in their vocation, they can take extra satisfaction in knowing they are providing a good means of living for some who are glad to have it, even though they may never live the 4HWW life themselves.
In an ideal world everyone would be paid well for their vocation, with everyone doing work suited to them, and with all needs being met thereby. Maranatha.
Posted by Sarah on 03/12/2009 at 03:01am | permalink | Reply to this comment