My husband and I are getting a divorce. It's really hard to write this for a lot of reasons, but the one that comes to mind this moment is that it's so crappy to be in the middle of a divorce when I make a living telling people how to run their lives.
Fortunately I also make a living scouring the world for good research. And, while I have spent forever telling you that relationships make us happier than money, I am really pleased to find some research that says that for some people marriage is like a raise in pay, and it only makes us happy for a couple of years, and then we go back to our baseline of happiness.
This is not true for the kids, of course. There is extremely persuasive research that no one likes to hear, that says that kids do not notice that their parents are unhappy in a marriage. In this seminal study, Judith Wallerstein tracked a large sample of children of divorce for 25 years. And she found that unless there is violence in the home, kids suffer more from parents getting a divorce than staying in a bad marriage. This research is what has kept me in my marriage. But now I am learning that marriage is a little like fertility in that I cannot control everything.
So really, I guess I have to say that you shouldn't take my advice about marriage, because I failed. But then I think, hold it, I have failed at least once in just about everything I have tried, and I think that's what makes my advice work. How do you know what you're doing wrong if you are not failing? How do you ever learn your limits?
Here's the process I go through to tell myself that I'll be okay after this divorce: I think about when I used to practice volleyball. If you spent the day practicing a shot you knew how to do, what was the point of practicing that day? Where was the learning curve? Where was the growth?
I think that one reason people listen to me about choosing a career is because I chose so badly, so many times. And bounced back. And I think that one reason that Wired just asked me to write a column on how to start a business is because I have started one and seen it go under. And then done another.
We should all know that success is as much about resiliency as it is about luck and skill. And at this point, I think it's safe to say that while I have luck and skill, I am most gifted in the resiliency department.
So maybe getting a divorce will make for better advice. Or more humility. Which I'm sure are related, by the way.
There's a study I read in the New York Times about how the people who are most happy with life are people who can create complicated scenarios to explain why a given situation is not so bad. That is me, right now.
To be honest, I've had a lot of time to perform those mental gymnastics since I've known for a while about the divorce. I waited to tell you because I didn't want to blog about it when I was crying. Everyone has their limits, even me. And besides, I've been raising a round of funding for my company, and what a terrible post to have up on a day when investors are reading my blog.
Anyway, during the time between crying and deciding that I'm the queen of resiliency, I stumbled across this information about my Myers Briggs type: ENTJ. There are sixteen personality types. ENTJs make up 4% of the general population and 80% of the population of executives.
Here's the news about ENTJs in a marriage:
"Gender issues are especially significant for ENTJ females. As a type, their arrogant, confrontational manner and need for control can appear to be quite 'unwomanly' to others. Of course, the problem intensifies for the ENTJ female when dealing with men. Their demanding, objective, competent, and independent nature is not particularly endearing to most men."
But, being the optimist I am, I kept looking and found this:
"These qualities may obscure the fact that ENTJ females can be quite nurturing and caring. For them, femininity is not defined by traditional roles. It is reflected in the total involvement and commitment they bring to each moment of life."
Here's what I've been doing while I've been not blogging about the divorce: I've been thinking about dating. It's my nature—being an ENTJ means planning the future. I'm very future oriented. And I can't help wondering where the female ENTJs are in the marriage world. How those marriages work out. Right now, I can't even imagine how an ENTJ date would work out.
But I'm starting to remember that all the skills I've learned in my career will be useful to my personal life right now: don't focus on shortcomings and play to your strengths instead; be kind and caring to the people around you to improve any situation, and most of all—setbacks don't matter as much as bouncing back.









Penelope,
Thank you, again, for your incredible strength and courage. The transparency through which you allow us to see into your world blows me away, and I admire you for it.
Please let me know how I might be of service to you and your family during these trying times.
David
Posted by David B. Bohl @ SlowDownFAST.com on 02/27/2008 at 12:26pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Well, congrats on entering another world. Yet again!
Posted by t h rive on 02/27/2008 at 12:28pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
This is a tough one, Penelope. It's a long haul you have before you but you'll make it. Scarred and bruised and beat up, maybe, but you'll make it. You've been scarred and bruised and beat up before, right?
“Gender issues are especially significant for ENTJ females. As a type, their arrogant, confrontational manner and need for control can appear to be quite “unwomanly” to others. Of course, the problem intensifies for the ENTJ female when dealing with men. Their demanding, objective, competent, and independent nature is not particularly endearing to most men.”
We're having a discussion on this very phenonemon
over on ERE. Here's the link:
http://tinyurl.com/2t2cxq
PS: Good luck Penelope and spend as much time as you can with your kids. And don't ever feel guilty about the time you can't spend with them. My two grown daughters, raised by a divorced, working mother, tell me all the time what a great role model I was for them and how fortunate they were to have the support system I was able to provide for them. Go figger.
Maureen
Posted by Maureen Sharib on 02/27/2008 at 12:29pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I know what a difficult decision this must have been. There is no doubt you will come through stronger.
Brandon
Posted by Brandon on 02/27/2008 at 12:36pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
This blog, and this post are classic examples of the genre of inane drivel dressed up in phony, self-important, self-declared authority that plague the blogosphere. Your kids need you, we don't.
Posted by Harold Cardigan on 02/27/2008 at 12:38pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Wow, excellent post about resiliency!
Good luck and all the best with this new phase of your life!!
Posted by Ian Selvarajah on 02/27/2008 at 12:39pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Penelope, I am so sorry to hear this news.
What strikes me most powerfully is the way you've made thousands of strangers care about what happens to you. We've never met, but your news makes my heart heavy.
My empathy for your situation would not be possible had you not shared so much in the past and helped countless people navigate work and life. Thank you for your honesty, energy, and insights.
Posted by Tamara Paton on 02/27/2008 at 12:43pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I know that you are going through a tough time, and I hope that everything works out for you. I think that your advice about marriage is still valid, but I have to say that you are probably more of an authority on what NOT to do in a marriage than on what you should do. For example, you can ask for exercise advice from either a well built professional athlete or from a lazy obese person. The athlete can tell you what to do and the obese person can tell you what NOT to do. So, yes, people who fail in an area can offer useful advice.
I applaud your bravery in sharing so much of your life (both good and bad). This courage is a big part of the strength of your voice.
Posted by Anjuan on 02/27/2008 at 12:56pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I am an ENTJ/ENTP woman, (I am low on the judging/perceiving and have tested out as both in different points of my life), and it really saddens me to read your news.
I am engaged, but after 5 yeras of dating (and living together for 3), I still have a lot of reservations about the union. My finance pretty much lets me call all of the shots – I make most of the money and most of the decisions. I worry that I'm marrying someone that will never challenge me, but when I've men that are strong like me, it has always ended badly.
Sorry to turn what was supposed to be a supportive comments into a inner dialog about my own problems. Best of luck to you.
Posted by Heidi on 02/27/2008 at 12:58pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
First, my sincere sympathy for your divorce. Mine was very amicable, and yet one of the worst times of my life.
If I can offer a little opinion, though, about your ENTJ research (or, INTP, in my case). Don't place all your trust in someone else telling you who you are. No matter how many studies they do to back up their evidence, it's still a lot like astrology… they're still telling you who you are. Don't box yourself into a neat little box named "ENTJ". Just be you.
Posted by Martin on 02/27/2008 at 12:59pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Sorry about your divorce. It's pretty brave of you to blog so openly about this stuff.
Penelope, is your husband an NF? If so, that doesn't bode well for MBTI personality theory, since Keirsey says NTs and NFs are supposed to get along well. (Though from what you've said about him here, he sounds like an SP artist anyway. NTs and SPs can be a volatile mix.)
- Dave, fellow NT (INTJ)
Posted by Dave Younskevicius on 02/27/2008 at 01:20pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Penelope, I am really sorry to hear about your divorce. Any loss is painful and for that I am very sorry.
I don't know what it is like to be married or divorced but I do know what it's like to be a child of divorce. I don't believe any study that says as long as there is no violence, kids have no clue how unhappy their parents are. I was very aware from a very young age how miserable my nonviolent parents were, both as individuals and partners. It's only in the last few years that I've realized how much that awareness has shaped me.
Ultimately, there is no way to shield children from pain–the pain of a bad marriage, the pain of the upending of a household that divorce brings, or the pain that happens in even the most functioning of homes. All you can do is your best to not add insult to injury.
I agree with Martin about just being who you are. Personality tests do smack of horoscope readings. There is some truth but still, you are you. There's comfort in those boxes, though. I read a lot about personality types and astrology when I was majorly depressed. I also agree with part of Harold's tactless comments, if just the last sentence. Your kids need you, not us. But I think it's safe to say that you primarily do this for you.
So, again, I am sorry. Go be the parent you need to be, to your kids and your self. Take care.
Posted by Joselle Palacios on 02/27/2008 at 01:21pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I think it's touching that you would share something so personal with your readers, especially after they have felt entitled to be viciously judgemental about you in the past. I admire your bravery and, yes, your resilience.
Posted by Joe Grossberg on 02/27/2008 at 01:49pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Like many other posters, I'm sorry to hear about the divorce. No one likes to fail at anything, but it's necessary part of life.
As much as people may scoff about it, if you're comfortable with it I would write about what you're going through. Consider all of the people out there who get married, find themselves unhappy and then wonder what or how they should deal with it.
What's the old cliche? How you respond when you are at your lowest is the true test of your character?
For what it's worth, my parents divorced when I was 10 and I'm happy as hell that they did. My stepfather was a much better father than my own dad and it's taught me how to being an equally great stepparent. I don't feel slighted or burned; I applaud my parents for realizing they couldn't make it work.
You will get through this.
Posted by Erin on 02/27/2008 at 01:51pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I'm very sorry to read this. The more you tried to save a marriage, the less horrible a divorce will be, which is no consolation really but the "wrong" divorces are the flippant, selfish ones; sometimes marriages do die, because people do make mistakes, and we all need to accept that.
However; just because most of the time divorce is bad for kids doesn't mean you can't find ways of getting your kids into the minority that does OK. My kids had a hard time at first and are now doing so well it amazes me every day. It was a long haul. Here's how I made it happen: peace with their dad, whatever it takes.
Nine times out of ten, divorcing parents continue fighting, often for years, rather than making the compromises and sacrifices they need to make in order to bring about peace. Kids can handle divorce if extra distance between the parents makes for peaceable, mutually respectful parenting. This is the way they will eventually come to accept it and move on healthily in their own futures.
But sometimes there is little or no negotiating flexibility on the other side, and one parent has to lead the way by setting an example and compromising. Fighting for every cent of money and every second of contact-time is the worst thing anyone can do to their kids. Their world is already splitting in half, the aim is to minimise that. The adults need to put their feelings aside and give up their need to cling to stuff, money and sometimes even legal rights (which are meaningless next to real-life agreements between co-parents). This is hard, but it can be done.
I'm posting that there because I haven't seen it much if at all elsewhere. Very best wishes for a happier future as soon as possible.
Posted by Alice Bachini-Smith on 02/27/2008 at 01:59pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I'm sorry to hear about the divorce. It's bad for everyone, but in the end, sometimes the alternative is worse.
On the Myers-Briggs…oddly enough, when I was first tested, I was an ENTJ…over the years however, my profile has migrated to ENFP. Not sure what that says!
Posted by Chris Yeh on 02/27/2008 at 02:01pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I am also an ENTJ! I found your thoughts on our personality type insightful. The great thing about Myers Brigg is the self awareness it brings.
@ Chris-> From what I've learned about the test, we have a preference for certain behaviors… so our type could change over time.
Best of luck in the future!
Posted by Jennifer Robinson on 02/27/2008 at 02:09pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I'm sorry about the divorce but agree with you about the resiliency. Besides the whole kids and divorce thing? As a child of divorce I think that having parents who recognize the losses for kids and help them grieve them mitigate a lot of the damage. I think the real hurt comes when parents want to deny the hardships. I for one am glad my parents divorced because regardless of how I felt when I was 11, I would rather have two happy parents than two miserable ones.
Posted by dawn on 02/27/2008 at 02:29pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Penelope,
Think of every moment in time right now as your metamorphosis.
I have been divorced now for 3 years and I can tell you, it was the most challenging, enlightening, depressing, and wondrous time in my life.
I look back at myself and wonder sometimes how I survived. Even with a somewhat agreeable divorce, to split with someone I had spent the past 8 years with was truly like a death. Albeit, with every death, there is a birth, and that is the birth of you and your new life.
I can tell you, after finally losing the weight I gained while depressed and married and getting divorced (I'm finally back to my regular size 4 from a 14), rediscovering those relationships I put by the wayside (my family, friends) and more importantly getting back to who I really am….. I can tell you…. I'm living my best life now.
The pain you feel now will allow you to experience the pure bliss and passion that lie ahead for you….. It is the barometer of all of our peaks and valleys…
I'm living my best life now. I am who I am supposed to be.
You will soon enough see the power, confidence, pleasure and bliss this experience will bring to you….
BTW – Before dating again, I suggest you re-educate yourself on the whole male psyche…. Pick up the book by Steve Santagati "The Manual." It saved me from continuing to fall victim to the male mind and hormones. It's just a great book with a great reminder on how we should behave ourselves with those lads we so covet. A friend gave it to me as a gift, and I can tell you… it changed my whole mindset… or reset it for that matter.
Good luck and when all else fails – deep breaths always work with moments of meditation.
I'll be rooting for you. From this moment on, these will be your finest hours…
Posted by Nicci on 02/27/2008 at 02:30pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
PS Ignore Harold. His message to todays post is clearly an example of the exact kind of BS he is accusing you of. Cognitive Dissonance is a powerful thang, and is one term he is clearly not familiar with.
I'm a borderline ENTP with a little J in me….and trust me it rears its head and does make dating and relationships tough when it comes to gender and mentality. But you, Penelope, are a unique breed but of person, even with out a test, and you will find a way to make these "letters" work for you. And plus, I think you know this, tests don't define everything either.
You'll be in my prayers as will your husband and kids.
Posted by Dorothy on 02/27/2008 at 02:38pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
as always, thanks for sharing something so personal. I think people can learn from your experience and it seems you've done a lot of thinking and research.
as a child of divorce (parents divorced when I was 6), i think you're doing the right thing instead of staying in the marriage. i have a friend from high school whose parents waited until she graduated to divorce and it was a major blow as she felt all she had grown up with had been fake. Me…I grew up knowing my parents weren't together. that was life for me. I didn't know any different. i now have 4 parents (mom/step-dad–who raised me and dad/step-mom) and it works. may be tough on your kids at first, but I'd say you're doing the right thing now.
I hope things go well with the process. hang in there. coffee soon?
Posted by karen on 02/27/2008 at 02:56pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Sounds like a tough one, but one that was on its way for a while based on historical posts.
While people I know who are divorced tell me that they often feel the stigma of failure, I often think — and would it be better to stay in a situation that isn't a right fit for either person? That is like spending your life in a pair of shoes 3 sizes too small and trying to grin & bear it. Surely not a recipe for success for either partner.
Appreciate your vulnerability & honesty in your posts as always & wish you the best navigating this next transition.
Posted by Paula G on 02/27/2008 at 03:09pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Just wanted to chime in with the respect for your openheartedness. I can't say that reading about your divorce affects me like it seems to others — after all, your life story often feels more like the anecdote you use to place your advice in a certain context and as such comes across to me as distant and somewhat fictional, though clearly heartfelt and true — but I do appreciate it, so here's the comment with me telling you so. Good luck.
Posted by Rahul on 02/27/2008 at 03:25pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Penelope,
I'm sorry to hear that your husband and you are getting a divorce. There's no doubt in my mind you made your best effort to stay in the marriage. You will think about things you said and did, think about the what ifs, and even blame yourself for things you didn't have control over. I know this because of my experience with divorce … and I didn't even have kids … so it is that much harder for you.
My best friend also got a divorce and I can remember my father telling me that I should give him some helpful advice while all of us were present. I didn't see that one coming so I can't even remember what I said. However I do remember thinking that every relationship is different and how hard it is to give specific advice without knowing all the specific details. It would be like going to a doctor and being prescribed aspirin without the doctor asking any questions or doing any tests. The shotgun approach. It will be painful but with time and introspection you will find the answers and know much more about yourself.
The investors (already invested or potential) reading your blog will now have someone with even more experience (perhaps more than them). It's not pretty but not everything in life is pretty either. Take care of yourself and the kids.
Posted by Mark W. on 02/27/2008 at 03:26pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Just wanted to wish you luck as you embark on the next step of your life, as well as lots of strength dealing with the divorce.
Posted by Irene on 02/27/2008 at 03:33pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Interesting, to say the least. I have begun a regiment of ginkgo to aid with mental clarity and acuity. Kids are not made of cobwebs. I am a 34 year old college freshmen with two kids, an intelligent and gorgeous wife, and I feel like getting really drunk sometimes. I had a very interesting experience earlier this week in my English class. It was called "peer editing", and I think I write better than my peers. You do to Penelope. There is the ancient Chinese proverb "May you have an interesting day", and that isn't always what we want out of life. When the shit fairy shows up, I usually wish for an unintersting life. But alas, my life is quite an adventure. I just found out that my family genealogy connects me to 4 different Mayflower compact signatories. The punchline is the 7 different ways that my family tree winds its way back to 4 different men. Apparently my family tree has fewer branches than I would have hoped. Whoa, and I thought double cousins were reserved for people in trailer parks.
Thank you for having an interesting life and blogging about it. I have to go take my second daily dose of Ginkgo Plus (made in China; may I have an interesting day hoping there isn't too much heavy metal mixed into this product)
Posted by Chris Severance on 02/27/2008 at 04:01pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Sorry:(
Posted by Dale on 02/27/2008 at 04:05pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Hi Penelope,
Sorry to hear about the end of your marriage. I want to thank you again for sharing some of the struggles you’ve had, and doing the research to place it in a broader perspective.
It has helped me to think differently about how to keep my marriage and family life as healthy as possible while still pursuing a career.
As someone having kids later in life, it’s sometimes hard to switch gears and reading your experiences with and ideas about this has helped.
Moreover, there isn’t a good “road map” for how to balance everything (although my parents did the typical stay-at-home mum and workaholic dad thing, I’ve never felt like that family structure worked for me then or would fit for me now). Your blog offers that to me and so many gen x’ers now trying to forge a new family – career – life balance.
Posted by Wendy on 02/27/2008 at 04:18pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Hi Penelope,
I'm very sorry about your situation. Please don't think of yourself as a failure because it takes two to make a relationship. You aren't a failure.
You are a beautiful and caring person, and I feel lucky to have found you. You are an inspiring voice who helps thousands of people. Don't forget how wonderful you are.
Posted by Charlie on 02/27/2008 at 04:47pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I'm sorry to hear that you are going through this. I've read enough of your blog to know that you tried. Take care of yourself. And get through this before you even think about dating again. You need to be a whole person first.
Posted by Jennifer on 02/27/2008 at 04:58pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Johnnie Moore on MBTI:
http://www.johnniemoore.com/blog/archives/001970.php
Posted by Stephanie West Allen on 02/27/2008 at 05:16pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I'm so sorry to hear the news. I was really pulling for you and Nino.
Posted by JenFlex on 02/27/2008 at 06:33pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
As a fairly new reader of your blog and a first time commentor, let me send my condolences, suggest that you exercise, whenever possible, to get rid of stress and let's all come up with another word for failure that doesn't imply 'complete life screw-up'. We're all just trying to get by. Keep putting one foot in front of the other. Or like Winston Churchill said, when you're going through hell, keep going. PS You write really well. ~Bobbi
Posted by Bobbi on 02/27/2008 at 06:39pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I am sorry to hear the news but frankly after reading your stuff for what 3-4 years (I can't remember when you started this..pre-blog anyway) I am not surprised at the least. I said your husband was a saint to well put up with you a long time ago. Not because you came off in your writing as a strong competent woman but that you came off as a big time self-absorbed B. I know you will take this in the right way too. Good luck with the new company and think about NOT re-marrying any time soon!
Posted by MitchTX on 02/27/2008 at 06:45pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I'm sorry to hear about your divorce.
As an ENTJ woman who's been married for >23 years (but didn't get married until I was almost 30), it's possible to date and marry :-)
Being competent or a take charge person is not a problem for dating. It's a problem for living. (Some men find it fascinating to date, difficult to live with.) Which is why I dated many men once or twice. Some for 2-3 months. Since I'm older, I doubt I would spend that much time with someone I had no long-term interest in.
I haven't been in your position, so I don't know how I would react. But I suspect I would take the dating thing slowly and get myself back together. Unless dating is the thing that will help you get yourself together. If so, then go for it.
Posted by Johanna Rothman on 02/27/2008 at 07:16pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Penelope,
what are you doing Saturday night @ 7pm? Cocktails?
Posted by Roy on 02/27/2008 at 07:40pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Oh boy, here they come, dateless Yahoo readers with short err resumes
Posted by Dale on 02/27/2008 at 08:04pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
sorry to hear the news of your divorce. but kudos on taking the positive, resilient view.
i recently had a life-over-turning event take place and remembered immediately that there is a reason my dad calls me "the cat." he says, it's because i always land on my feet.
here's to you landing on your feet, which i'm sure you'll do.
all the best!
deb
Posted by deb on 02/27/2008 at 09:40pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Thanks for posting this. You're a great blogger and your "personal" posts are always the most affecting.
And if anything I have to say could make you feel any better, I think the whole "fear of the ENTJ woman" thing is the stuff of the older generations and on its way out. I have nothing to support this theory but personal and anecdotal evidence, but it's still true. 8)
Posted by Werner von Wallenrod on 02/27/2008 at 09:45pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Well, could be worse. They could be from AOL.
As an ENTJ woman, I know that it is possible to be married…if you're with the right person. Took me a while to get it right.
Posted by Andrea C>> Become a consultant blog on 02/27/2008 at 09:58pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Penelope,
Your life doesn't have to be perfect for you to be able to give perfectly good advice! I'm sorry to hear about your divorce, but having read your blog for a while, I know you will get thru it fine. Resiliency is what separates victims from survivors.
Joann
Posted by Joann on 02/27/2008 at 10:07pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I'm sorry to hear about your divorce. I hate to say it, but it happens to the best of us! It's so important to remember that divorce is normal now and the fact that your marriage is ending does not make you a failure.
One of my favorite Chinese proverbs is: "Failure isn't falling down, but refusing to get up.
Take good care.
Helene Taylor
The Modern Woman's Divorce Guide
http://themodernwomansdivorceguide.com
Posted by Helene on 02/27/2008 at 10:18pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Penelope Trunk, this is exactly what I needed today: an example of someone else doing the brave thing in the face of an unhappy relationship.
Thank you for continuing to blog abt your marriage despite the criticism. Honesty is its own type of resiliency – I appluad you for it.
Posted by Pare on 02/27/2008 at 10:41pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
all i can say is, hang in there.
during the period when i was job hunting and getting nowhere, i had this post-it note on my desk that said 'hang on' and every time i looked at it, it gave me renewed energy to keep on going. thats how i persevered.
also, i want to thank you for all the advice you've given on this blog. i've used many of the tips and often find relief in many of the comments you make on this blog.
thanks for making a difference.
Posted by sue on 02/28/2008 at 12:56am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Penelope, sad news on the homefront and I'm so sorry to hear it. I'm an ENTP, and have been told I'll swim upstream all my life with men. Probably true as I'm married for time #3 and not sure if we'll make it. Yes we have kids and I have kids…but they are resilient too and as long as we love them unconditionally, most things turn out ok.
My .02 as a marriage failure?
Don't date seriously for a while. Give yourself time to do what you want and be the only one in the decision for a bit.
And love yourself greatly!
Prayers to you to be on the mend soon, kristi
Posted by kristi on 02/28/2008 at 02:28am | permalink | Reply to this comment
I'm really sorry to hear about your divorce; I've enjoyed your blog for awhile, and I hope things get better for you. Know that taking a break, should you decide to (though, as another ENTJ, I know I couldn't ever stop working) would be totally understood.
Posted by Adam on 02/28/2008 at 05:02am | permalink | Reply to this comment
i think paula g had it right. in all your previous posts i had assumed you merely wrote to portray yourself as the villain. but seeing now, you didn't believe that an apparent lack of respect from his partner (see: hiding your marriage on facebook) could emasculate a man. i shudder to imagine the strength it took for him to give up his career for yours (and the kids). and from your website and your blog, this marginalised him. well, i hope you both move on well. him, i hope to see him in LA in July and you, i hope to read more entries with solid advice.
Posted by jarad on 02/28/2008 at 07:38am | permalink | Reply to this comment
It may not seem like it right now, but, You will come through this and out the other side. While it takes two to get married, it can be only one causing the divorce. I don't know what you are like in person or when the front door closes. You will be fine.. I wish you the best,stick close to your friends and crying from time to time helps cleanse the soul. As ever,
Charles
Posted by SavageBeast on 02/28/2008 at 08:10am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Hi Penelope,
I just started reading your blog a few feeks ago.Your complete honesty endears you to me as a person I would pick for a real life friend. I'm sure you have gotten a miliion personal anticdotes on divorce, but I'll share mine anyway. The night before I accepted a new sales job which requires 60% travel, I opened my cell phone bill. The truth of all that was wrong with the marriage,A marriage that we tried to make work for the kids, was all there in black and white. Mostly it contained my husbands new girlfriend. The same day my husband signed a lease on his new apartment, I hysterically gave my two weeks notice to my boss, friend, and mentor, of five years. I honestly don't know which of those two events broke my heart more. I, like you, had read all of the studies, and believed it to be selfish to leave a bad marriage, when the kids didn't know it was bad to begin with. But I have to believe that someday, they will appreciate my courage and strenghth, rather than see selfishness as I am afraid they see a little when they look at me now. We are daily redefining our family dynamic, and I hope to create one that "sticks", but in the meantime, there is not a day that goes by, that my kids don't see a strong and courageous mother rather than the tired and defeated one they have known up to this point.Well, two out of three days aren't bad anyway. Sadly, they will wear the scars for a mistake I made nine years ago, but they also will learn courage, determination, flexibility, and love. Good Luck to you on your journey. I am an an ENFP, and have found that I am most compatible with an INTJ, I searched http://www.plentyoffish.com using personality type as a freak filter. I found the most amazing friend, who though very different, seems to "get" me, and that's all we as humans want, to be "gotten." Of course this time around with kids, the stakes are much higher, and caution is in order. There is also no urgency to get married, buy a house, have kids, and live happily ever after. Been there, done that.
Julie Fawcett
Posted by Julie Fawcett on 02/28/2008 at 08:31am | permalink | Reply to this comment
God bless the children.
Posted by Steve Delaney on 02/28/2008 at 08:50am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Penelope,
I am very sorry to hear about your divorce. Nobody ever enters a marriage with the intent to get a divorce. But, I know that marriage is a challenge, and sometimes divorce occurs.
As a man, when I got married, I wanted to give my marriage the best chance to succeed. That is exactly why I wrote the book Developing a Million-Dollar Relationship: A Man's Strategy to a Real Relationship.
I wish you all the best in your future endeavors and that you may find healing and resiliency.
Posted by James Schellman on 02/28/2008 at 10:06am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Penelope –
As with everyone, sorry for you, but I am sorry for the loss of what you dreamed would be The One relationship which would satisfy your every longing and which you would help satisfy another person's dreams. In life you don't need another person to believe you are complete. I believe we were created for community, in whatever way we define it.
You know, as well as I do, you did not fail, you succeeded, just not in the manner you hoped for. Failure would have been never trying, you tried and ultimately you are a better person because of your willingness to reflect upon your life's journey.
I hope and pray you find healing for you and the entire family.
Michael
Posted by Michael on 02/28/2008 at 10:24am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Very sorry to hear this P. Make sure to take time for yourself during this transition.
Matt
Posted by Matt Bingham on 02/28/2008 at 10:25am | permalink | Reply to this comment
I am very sorry about your pending divorce. I find myself always inline with your ideas but I don't believe divorce is something we should take it lightly. It is not changing a job or come up w/ vision or business ideas that we should always be on a look out for. Our relationship is the most important foundation for our stable mind, health, happiness so we have the energy to dream the dreams. A healthy relationship keeps us functional. Unless a relationship is totally hopeless, I do not think divorce should be an option. I believe I can improve even the most mundane, dead-end job if I put my energy to but usually I won't because it is just a job. I believe I can improve any relationship if I want to. However, I regard a marriage commitment is something I will work hard for w/ my spouse and I won't give it up easily. Would u consider a period of separation, calm down before u both make up the mind. I have no doubt you both work hard on this but I am asking if this is final, really no way to make it work?
Posted by Perci Wong on 02/28/2008 at 10:47am | permalink | Reply to this comment
I am very sorry to hear about your divorce. Speaking from experience, it is not an easy thing to go through. I tell people my divorce was the worst thing and best thing that ever happened to me. You will be stronger for this experience. Focus on yourself and your kids. Everything else will fall into place. Thank you for sharing your experiences because it makes you realize we are all in this rat race together!
Posted by Kacy on 02/28/2008 at 11:19am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Penelope,
I'm a new reader to your blog and just wanted to take a moment to wish you the best of luck. You are a very bright and resilient woman and I've no doubt another door will open for you now that this one has closed.
Posted by RJ on 02/28/2008 at 11:33am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Percy Wong, you sound like my dad. Take it to the bank: once someone is where Penelope is, there's little chance of turning back. And that type of question just makes the load heavier. Few people want a divorce, and sometimes it takes a strong person to do the right thing even when it's not what you would prefer.
Posted by Hope on 02/28/2008 at 11:40am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Sorry to hear about your divorce, but hopefully you'll spend a lot of time reflecting on how your life got to where it is. Resiliency in the face of failure is great, but repeated failure are a sign you've got to change (How long has each of your career choices lasted? How well have your big plans worked out for you like moving to WI?).
When I got laid off from a job I really liked back in 2001, I spent a lot of time railing against the company, but eventually came to the realization that it was part circumstance, and part my behavior that put me in the position. Learning what my part is in the failure was really important for me.
You're really good at self-disclosure, but I haven't seen you really turn a harsh spotlight on any of your choices to help you figure out how you keep ending up failing. Failure to think through things like the examples others have given (what about the effect of your name change on your kid/husband, etc.)
Posted by jim on 02/28/2008 at 11:42am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Sorry – meant to finish that last sentes with "failure to think through things like the examples others have given will likely keep you making the same mistakes"
Posted by jim on 02/28/2008 at 11:43am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Penelope,
It is hard to believe that someone able to express themselves so eloquently could ever come into conflict. But conflict is part of human nature and divorce is an expression of that conflict. I've read many of your posts, and you have the strength and personality and know-how to make lemonade out of them there lemons.
I visited Madison when my brother was going to school there. It is a lovely place. A good friend also relocated to the Madison area. He has a better, higher paying job, and a lower cost of living than Massachusetts. Some have the ability to adapt, and others keep doing the same thing over and over hoping for a different result.
Posted by Randy on 02/28/2008 at 12:24pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Most people will never admit to failure, believing it a reflection on themselves or their abilities. You acknowledge failure as a part of the learning and growing process. That's a great message to all of us.
Posted by Curmudgeon on 02/28/2008 at 01:42pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
jim, For your information, I live near Madison and Penelope is everywhere. Articles in Madison Magazine, a regular column in the Wisconsin State Journal, frequent speaking appearances. Not to mention appearing on CNN. We should all be such a failure.
Penelope, sorry to hear about your divorce. Best wishes.
Posted by Jackie on 02/28/2008 at 02:00pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
First of all, I want to say I'm incredibly sorry to hear that you and your husband weren't able to work things out. I've watched my parents divorce, then my mom and step-dad divorce, and I know it's ugly. But I am shocked at and disagree with the research that says kids don't know their parents are in an unhappy marriage and that kids suffer more from divorce than parents staying in a bad marriage. That is just insane. I grew up with a friend whose parents were in a horrible, unloving marriage. When my parents divorced in late elementary school, I was devastated, but she told me in middle school, "I know you're sad, but you should feel lucky that your parents got a divorce when they needed one. My parents need a divorce, and everyone would be better off if they'd do that instead of stay together." Ever since then, I've realized that most kids are better off with two separate, content parents than a miserable, and often violent couple under one roof. In fifth grade, my parents' fighting got so bad. I would hear them screaming at each other every night, and I'd run into their room and yell in vain for them to stop. As things got worse, my mom started coming into my room at night crying, and would sleep in my bed with me. Do you really think that was not affecting me and that I didn't notice my parents weren't happy? Do you really think a divorce would have been more traumatic? No. Their marriage at the end was traumatic for me and I'll never forget how awful it was. I had two younger siblings who fortunately don't remember it, but those bad memories will always be with me. Much to my parents' credit, they went to marriage counseling for a long time, but they should have divorced earlier. Them divorcing was painful and upsetting, but had they stayed together, I don't even want to imagine how bad things would have gotten. So, apologies for what you're going through, but please consider this side of the argument.
Posted by emilyg on 02/28/2008 at 02:31pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Having lived through a divorce and gotten remarried, the thing to remember is that YOU haven't failed now, but your union failed for whatever reason…Don't blame yourself or see it as a failure. A marriage exists as an entity separate from the two people, as much as it is about the two people…Who knows if that makes sense….But don't see it as a personal failure….
Posted by Hank Essay on 02/28/2008 at 02:59pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Hey Penelope,
You're going to need a lot of support. It's the pits to say goodbye to someone who you loved once. Just remember that you will still remain in each others' lives because of your kids.
Watch out for denial while you applaud yourself over being resilient. I myself went through the whole 9 yards and am the kind who always says, "Tough, now get over it!" Give yourself the chance to be nice to yourself too.
If I can offer support, please give me the chance to. You may be the new kid on the block on this one but I've been here for a while now. Chin up kid!
Posted by Esprit on 02/28/2008 at 03:41pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Good luck with this next life transition. I have no doubt you will land on your feet, brush yourself off and head towards the next challenges.
Posted by MargaretW, INJF on 02/28/2008 at 03:49pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Penelope (Adrienne?) –
As a fellow Brandeis alum (albeit a bit older – I'm Class of '81) I have always enjoyed your colums (and loved your book!). I always pride myself on being resilient. Born in the Caribbean, studied in the U.S., worked in the family business, took over, watched it grow, stumble and fail. Got married, got divorced. Moved to the U.S. to start completely over at age 38, I always knew that I would bounce back. You will too. I always say: what I've done in life is what truly has made life exciting for me. How would I have known if I had not tried it. This is going to be the most difficult time in your life, but I can tell you (married now and with two little kids who are everything to me): the best is yet to come!!!
Posted by Larry Salas on 02/28/2008 at 03:58pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I am very sorry to hear this Penelope. It must be terrible. But I am sure very soon life will shine again for you.
A big hug,
Luca
Posted by Luca on 02/28/2008 at 04:37pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I was trying to think of ways I might have changed if my parents had stayed together and I don't know if I would prefer that person over the one I am today. I know that one person doesn't go against a multi-variate study but if that one person is your kid, it doesn't matter what the study says. My parents knew the odds but I don't think they'd ever let me buy into a chance that I would fall into those pitfalls.
Anyway, good luck. You'll need it.
Posted by Your HR Guy on 02/28/2008 at 04:52pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Penelope,
I don't know what your husband may have done to contribute to the ending of your marriage, but I must say, if you decide on another marriage in the future or even a long term relationship, please make sure that he knows he will always come second in your life. Do not allow him any false pretense whatsoever.
We, who read your blog, know that the foremost thing in your life is your ambitious career and your blogging. And for as long as you remain "future oriented" I'm sorry to tell you that you will never really be content in your life.
Posted by klein on 02/28/2008 at 05:31pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Damn girl, I'm so sorry to hear about your divorce.
Posted by Monica on 02/28/2008 at 05:35pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I am really sorry to hear this, and even more sorry at the amount of grief you take from people who comment. I mean really. It's ridiculous.
While you were not able to save your marriage, I wanted to let you know you helped me save mine. (well, maybe, the jury is still out). I sent my husband links to some of your marriage counseling posts and they struck a cord with him. It helped, and for that I thank you. Small consolation, I know. Were I in your shoes I'm not sure how much comfort I'd take from that. I've become a regular reading and am pulling for you. The positive people far outweigh the negative, remember that if it ever gets you down (though I think you've developed tough internet skin).
Posted by WhichBox on 02/28/2008 at 05:50pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I'm so sorry to hear about your divorce. I've been reading your column for months and wish you and your family all the best during your transition to your new normal.
Posted by Karen on 02/28/2008 at 06:58pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
This too shall pass!
Posted by Yasmin on 02/28/2008 at 07:34pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I'm so disappointed in you (and your husband as well if he also wants a divorce), Penelope.
So much good career (and life) advice…so much effort put into helping others…so much caring about what's really important (and what's not) in life…
…and yet; in the most important relationship we as humans can have during our short time on this earth (other than that w/God and his Son)–the one with our family; you choose to say "I give up" and "no more"…
Unless your husband is/was an adulterer, beating you (or otherwise putting you and/or your child in physical danger; and even still you should do no more than separate until you see if things can change), you have no justifiable grounds to divorce.
And to see you attempt to neatly wrap such a terrible thing up in another post as if it's nothing more than another career posting is so, so very sad.
If and until you and your husband decide to do the right thing–for both of you; but especially for your young child–by sticking it out, I'm canceling my subscription to your newsletter.
Which part of "In good times and bad," and "Until death do us part" didn't you both understand when you made those sacred vows to each other and to God?
Please reconsider your decision…and be the all-too-rare shining example of a couple who said "NO!" to getting a divorce.
If we don't have our families, nothing else matters.
Nothing.
It's not too late to do the right thing…and no…this will not pass.
To hell with any funding.
Posted by Steve on 02/28/2008 at 08:58pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Steve, clearly I can't speak for Penelope, but I feel compelled to say that if hearing news of her divorce moves you to post what you did and makes you want to no longer receive her newsletter…buh bye, and don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.
Based on your post, if your husband is BEATING you or your child, you should 'do no more than seperate until you see if things can change?!' I'd love to know what you're smoking, cause it's gotta be something good.
Posted by J on 02/28/2008 at 11:06pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
you see, you should have never mocked christmas
Posted by ewsuo@yahoo.com on 02/28/2008 at 11:36pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
What a day to post this, when you're investors are looking. Make no mistake about it: this was intentional. Maybe there's an investor who wants you sexually. Maybe you want to show your investors that you can be strong in the face of problems. Or maybe you want them to feel sorry for you, no?
I loved the subtle hint that you are now dating.
Posted by purple on 02/28/2008 at 11:43pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I haven't read all the comments… I just want to extend the hand of sisterhood and say "hang in there." I've been divorced twice and currently married to number 3, whom I've been thinking of divorcing for years. I am finally getting some personal growth out of the situation.
Don't know where I read this, but "marriage is the triumph of hope over experience." Could also be said about starting a company, I suppose.
Posted by Elizabeth Gagae on 02/29/2008 at 01:26am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Go J!
Posting about one's personal life doesn't make it any less one's own business and property. And being free to comment also means being liable to be judged for your comments. Does Steve have a newsletter I can unsubscribe from?
Posted by missC on 02/29/2008 at 04:20am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Steve,
Are you referring to the same Son of God that euthanized lepers, beat the children, ostracized women of questionable employment and got drunk with the civil and religious leaders?
Oh wait…
Seriously though, the Pharisees called: there is another stoning next week and they could really use your arm – and could you bring bigger rocks this time? (they asked nicely)
Posted by David Rees on 02/29/2008 at 05:04am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Oh geez, that sucks. I've observed numerous families in divorce and have concluded if there is any way to salvage a shred of hope and stick it out it's always better than the alternative. But even love birds don't stay together. So, either way I hope it all goes well for you!
Posted by Milena on 02/29/2008 at 11:09am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Penelope, I am sorry to hear about your loss. I wish you the best of luck and admire your courage for using this experience to try and help others. Great work.
Posted by Kirstin on 02/29/2008 at 11:15am | permalink | Reply to this comment
I'm really sorry, but really respect your candor. It is never good news but does lead to growth. And though so many others have given the advice on how to proceed, I'm just going to say DO NOT let either of you make the children pawns in any way whatsoever.
Both of you are parents and both of you are important. My ex has marginalized me to my kids, I never put her down but know some day the kids will see things clearly. They will come to their own conclusions, perhaps not the same as mine, but they will nonetheless.
Keep it clean and coparent in their best interests…that's all you can do for them. and that's what they deserve from the both of you. Good luck on your journey
Posted by Scott on 02/29/2008 at 11:34am | permalink | Reply to this comment
I'm sorry about the news. Hang in there.
Posted by Heather in MN on 02/29/2008 at 11:46am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Penelope, I just found your site and was surprised by the honesty of this post. I love it. Thanks for sharing and good luck with everything for both of you and all parties involved in the divorce.
Posted by Ron on 02/29/2008 at 11:54am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Wow Miss P, so sorry to hear this. I too am ENTJ and have gone through a divorce.
My first marriage was to someone who was my "equal" but what I learned was there are some fundamental truths to what women need most (love)and what men need most (respect) out of a marriage.
Politically incorrect as it sounds.
I'm not saying this is the lesson you need to learn, just one that I learned later than I wish I would have.
Posted by finance girl on 02/29/2008 at 12:51pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
This is the first time I've visited your blog, and I must say I am impressed with your authenticity. Thanks for everything that you write – whether I we agree with you or not, you are doing a terrific service for many!
Posted by Kathy on 02/29/2008 at 04:15pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
So sorry about your divorce.
I don't have any feel-good, look-to-the-future advice. It's just sad.
(But I bet your traffic is up!)
Posted by Rachel on 02/29/2008 at 06:38pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I am sorry to hear about your marriage. I wish you the best. Just remember, in order to get through it, that when times are bad they always get better somehow.
Posted by Debra K on 02/29/2008 at 07:46pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Ok heres the thing… you are not that good of a writer. you are more of a pundant for career advice than an actual expert on it. The fact that you have failed at many things is good. I commend you on admitting that but it doesn't help you. Because when people look for advice, they would like to hear more of the success than the failure. They sometimes use that as a template or an idea to do better.
which brings me to this. I read your blog for comedic reasons. It is funny to me… not insightful
Posted by BM on 03/01/2008 at 09:40am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Rather than being sorry for you Penny, I'm excited. Over the past year or so there's been plenty of indications in your posts that your life was about to take this turn. Now the decision is made, I'm sure there'll be lots of new experiences and lots of possibilities open up. My wish is for your happiness and the ongoing well being of both yourself and your family. Here's to the wonder of not knowing.
Posted by Peter Fletcher on 03/04/2008 at 01:46am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Jealous people are funny and so is their schadenfreude. She's still richer and more successful than you, losers. Probably always will be. It's a bitch,no?
Posted by missC on 03/04/2008 at 06:33pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Sorry Penelope, thought everything was going ok, anyway I still do know that you will work good of everything. Take care.
Posted by shoba on 03/05/2008 at 09:27am | permalink | Reply to this comment
I hope things go well, going forward. I had to go take that darn test to see what I am. $5 and all, i hope you are getting a cut. I fell in to the trap. Not shocked that I'm 'the guardian'.
Posted by Kelley on 03/06/2008 at 12:43am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Eek, P, I am sorry to hear the news, as I know as a child of divorce that it is a really rough time.
However, as we have discussed before, all lows become highs based on how we look at them! Ironically, I just wrote a post for Martha Beck's blog on my pride at being a child of divorced parents and how it taught me so many good things.
http://marthabeck.typepad.com/martha_beck/2008/02/step-into-the-r.html
Was it fun to go through at 5 years old? Hell no. But would I trade it? I don't think so.
As for the ENTJ stuff, it is useful … but remember, that is just one tiny slice of who you are. We are deeper beings than our personality types, and when you find a person that really matches you, those things are less important.
Don't jump into the dating world too soon — get to know yourself again and you will be pleased at what you find.
Good luck getting through this — you know where to find me if you need an ear to cry into.
-Pam
Posted by Pamela Slim on 03/06/2008 at 02:19pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Oops – one more thing I feel compelled to mention:
For the benefit of your kids, if you and your ex-hubbie can keep one rule sacred and cardinal as you go through this divorce (and the rest of your lives):
DO NOT, under any circumstances, diss one another in front of your kids.
I don't care if you are seething with rage, if the other has done great injustice. Zip your lips!
Your kids want to continue to love Mom and Dad equally. When you criticize the other, you are really criticizing that part of your child.
My parents were GREAT about this, and I am convinced that that is why I had an overall positive experience with my parent's divorce. I honestly never remember my Mom uttering a bad word about my Dad, or vice versa, until I was at least 18. I now know that my Mom wanted to kill him at times. But I really appreciate her restraint, as now I have strong relationships with both of them.
Bitch to your friends in private – let it rip!
But be VERY careful what you say in front of your kinds.
My two cents!
Posted by Pamela Slim on 03/06/2008 at 02:38pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Penelope,
My heart literally stopped when I saw your post. I am so sorry you are going through this. Wish it wasn't so. I subscribe to your blog through Google Reader and pick out all of the posts by your twentysomethings guys. It's gotta have a Penelope signature. Anyway, you had a really interesting post a while back about stay at home dads. I showed it to my husband. It started this huge argument or heated discussion about gender issues and parenting and time management etc etc etc. At that point he said you'd get a divorce. And I was MAD – it's as though he didn't have any confidence in our own marriage. Or that's how I interpreted it in my usual melodramatic way. The other day I told him you posted about your divorce and he said he was sorry he'd ever said that.
Later at dinner with friends, it came up again and someone said "Yeah those career types tend to be bad marriage types". I was appalled! And also thought about your ENTJ comment. As you can tell by the erraticness of my comment here I'm not taking this news very well. I respect you, I am happy for you because I believe in the end it will be the better thing for you and at the same time I feel sadness that you have to go through this.
Thanks for being resilient. You already know this, but don't forget: the best is still to come. I tell myself: this challenge is light, it is temporary and it will take me to a new level.
Big Hugs.
Posted by Estella on 03/06/2008 at 04:19pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I'm sorry about your divorce.
I have to point out however, that you had somewhat misquoted the research by Judith Wallerstein and divorce. It is not true that children fair better when the marriage stays intact…..with the exception of marriages with violence as you said. Actually, her research and the overall body of research regarding children and divorce say that children are better off if parents divorce rather than stay in a marriage that exposes them to violence, or verbal abuse, or alcohol/drub abuse, or poor role models for how adults in a loving relationship should act.
Generally speaking, the research states that kids who are worse off because of the divorce, are those that were completely in the dark about the problems in the marriage. Those children who think their parents have a wonderful marriage and then divorce, DO NOT fair well…compared to kids whose parents divorce took them out of the unhealthy environment.
I'm not pointing this out to pick on you. I'm pointing it out because to simply say the research shows divorce is bad for kids unless there is violence is too simplistic and inaccurate. There are SO many variables that affect the outcome for children of divorce. I would hate for anyone else to view the research with such simplicity that they stay in a bad marriage.
Posted by Priscilla on 03/06/2008 at 06:21pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
PT –
Sorry to hear about your divorce. I watched my parents go through one as a kids and it sucks. there's nothing good about divorce, even a "good" one. The best thing you can do is let your kids know it's not their fault. They need a strong center to gravitate to. Make it be you.
What doesn't crush us makes us stronger. The ability to succeed in life is not measured by our successes, but how we recover and what we learn from failure. You will perservere and be fine.
Keep writing. It's great therapy.
Posted by Jerry Matthew on 03/17/2008 at 11:07pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Hey Penelope,
Sorry to hear about the divorce, but for those of us who have been reading for a while, it seemed a foregone conclusion right from the first post about your problems. It probably wasn't a revelation that came up just recently for you. It seemed that there was a lot of contempt from both sides which didn't seem to get any better thru counselling or blogging. I am not an advocate of divorce unless there is some danger to one spouse or their children, but I can see how a bad relationship that affects the way the kids are taught would make for a bad future for them. Maybe that in itself could be a "reason" to separate the two that will damage them. Marriage is about 2 people, but when children are involved, marriage becomes family and it becomes more critical that all lives are protected as well. We pick who we marry, but our children can't pick who they will be born to. We choose to have children so they become an addition to our obligations and promises to make it work. When it doesn't, it involves more than the original two, so for better or worse may not be the best for all who will suffer. The children didn't promise for better or worse, but they are the ones getting the worse. I think spouses should try to work out any differences they have and keep their marital promises. If they can't keep their problems from affecting their children, then it may be the best to separate.
Thinking about how much better it will be when it is all over and the future without the current spouse is truly sad. Planning dates already is borderline shameful. What love and caring there once existed now is replaced with thoughts of starting a new relationship before the official papers are signed. What a shame the world we live in where everyting is disposible, out with the old in with the new. Give it a little time to sink in. Any new relationship might be better than the previous, but let your hormones grasp reality as most new relationships will be pure infatuation and not lasting.
Posted by gt on 03/18/2008 at 12:13pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
i have read the research by judith wallerstein re: divorce – for personal reasons – my marriage is not a healthy one – we have 3 beautiful children and are trying to handle things the best way possible pertaining to our divorce – i believe her research is helpful in saying that your kids want to see you happy – not unhappily married – they can sense everything. hang in there – as one door closes – another will open – as you know.
Posted by hadley on 03/20/2008 at 12:11am | permalink | Reply to this comment
I, too, am an ENTJ. Not as completely as I was when I was younger but still fall into that box. I, too, stayed married longer than I should have for the sake of the kids, because of reading The Legacy of Divorce. We separated when I figured out that my kids were going to have a dead mom who committed suicide or divorced parents.
Most of the comments say some form of "I'm sorry."
I heard that a lot. I wasn't. The three greatest gifts my husband gave me were my two kids and the divorce.
My husband, my kids and I are all so much happier and better off than we were when he and I were together.
I hope things work out as well for you.
Carol
Posted by Carol Saha on 03/25/2008 at 01:12pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
to carol saha – how long was too long and how old are your kids?
Posted by hadley on 03/31/2008 at 01:55pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Penelope: very sorry to read your news. I have had the good fortune to sit and chat with you and know that you absolutley are nurturing, committed and caring. While I can only imagine the sadness you are feeling, i can guess that your resilience and reflective attitude will ensure that you grow out of this. So with that: congratulations on making a decision. Decisions after all, are the way we define ourselves and this is a big one …
As for being an ENTJ (aka: alpha female)and what that means in relationships: I am not sure for you, but raising an alpha daughter, I wanted to thank you for raising two young boys who will have a comfort with this kind of a woman. This is a little mark we will leave on the next generation, non? Children who have a comfort and expectation in authenticity and REAL equality in all their relationships as a result ….
Wishing you well!
Hugs to you and all of your family, Sharon.
Posted by Sharon on 04/01/2008 at 09:55am | permalink | Reply to this comment
So sorry to hear of your divorce. We exchanged emails years ago about the trials of taking your children to work and laughing about the "take the children to work" groundswell in companies at the time. I recall we had many similarities in our lives (except I had 5 kids — do you remember?).
Now we share divorce in our roster. Here's hoping you and I both emerge with our senses of humor (and of course our careers) in tact.
Posted by Amy on 04/02/2008 at 12:42pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Penelope,
You are a disgrace to all of us who come from normal, happy homes where our parents were married their whole lives and took their vows seriously. Yes, my wife and I have been married for 15 months and at times, we argue like we don't want to be married, but that is PART OF ANY relationship.
What differentiates us from single people is our LIFE LONG commitment to each other. That is what makes marriage special, and you are now teaching your kids to give up. Shame on you!
Posted by Dan on 04/03/2008 at 06:05pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I've not been on your blog for a while because, ta-da! I'm getting a divorce too. Left my abusive husband in January. Marriage #2.
I never really looked into what being an ENTJ meant in terms of relationships with men. To me, the Myer's Briggs encapsulates only portions of who I am, so it is defeating to think I'm stuck in that paradigm. But, now I think I might take a look at it.
But I DO understand the "looking forward" reference. Between crying and being resilient, as you state, I found someone else and began another relationship.
I think I will be blogging about divorce today. Thanks for the inspiration (especially to a few of your lug-headed commenters.)
In thinking on the ENTJ-executive link, I wonder if we go into relationships, fix things up, leave the person a better person and move onto something new and of interest to us. Much like top notch executives go into a business, run it for a little while and then move onto other areas. Perhaps the best relationship to get into would be one where we both can't run the other person's life, and also can't take advantage of them. I notice it tends to be two of ENTJ faults.
Posted by ENTJ here on 04/05/2008 at 04:46pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I feel sorry for those who feel they must sacrifice family and friends for material gain.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42E2fAWM6rA
(Lost Generation – 1m:44s)
Posted by Logical Extremes on 04/13/2008 at 04:45pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Love your blog. Just found it. Meyers-Briggs changed my life…especially I am an ENFP who acted like an ENTJ so that I could manage my projects (people) more efficiently. Unsurprisingly, my real personality works better, which I really discovered when I started working with…autistic kids!
Good luck to you on the road ahead! I will be following you here.
Posted by Super Zoe on 04/18/2008 at 01:22pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Good Luck, Penelope.
It is amazing that you can be so honest on such a difficult subject. I met you at the ERE conference and love your blog. (Maybe because we are both ENTJ's) I have been married amost 7 years and have two kids and am also the primary breadwinner. It is a tough situation. Thanks for leting us know we arenot alone.
Posted by Joy on 04/20/2008 at 02:31pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I'm an ENTJ….
I will be able to divorce in 18 years, 1 month and 2 days. That is when I project my youngest child will graduate high school. I know, a little too late, that I am best independent. I don't coddle or need to be coddled. My husband is one of those people who wants to talk on the phone 4 times a day and is personally insulted if I don't say I love you too every time he does.
I think we know before we're married when it will end up in divorce. I think we just live in denial and think that all those things are not going to matter as much as they do when your juggling kids & a mortgage.
Posted by Me on 05/08/2008 at 09:12pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Stay strong…you have a lot of wisdom and you will get through this.
Posted by Nancy on 05/27/2008 at 09:06pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I'm from a place where divorce is not an option. Whether its been through the influence of religion or values instilled in our leaders, divorce has always been shrugged off by our government.
Marriage is no easy thing…especially when you start to have kids and the stress points are bombarding both of you from all directions. Prides collide and feelings of regret and frustration threaten your existence as a couple.
We all have different threshold levels on holding on to troubled marriages. Personally, I believe there no point in holding on to something that's no longer there.
For countries with divorce as an option, I can't really say how much of a fight troubled couples put up before calling it quits. Should I be thankful or otherwise that I belong in a place where divorce is not an option?
Posted by kenz on 06/03/2008 at 10:01pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I am recently in the process of getting a divorce. I am also sad to say, it's not my first divorece either. I often feel like a failure but until today, I realized I didn't fail in the marriage, I failed in finding a suitable mate.
Although you may feel like you don't really have the authority to give advice, maybe your advice is sound but just your own selection of a mate was the problem.
Don't sell yourself short … in every situation, there is many variables, we can't always be right in every case but if we quit trying, we will lose in the end.
Evo
Posted by Evo on 06/18/2008 at 03:05pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I would love to use part of this story in my blog. Of course, I would give you full credit for this and put your website underneath your story. I would like to use word-for-word the story up to the paragraph To Be Honest.
Here's my blog:
http://www.DoneLickingDivorceWounds.com/blog
Posted by Denise Nabinger on 06/24/2008 at 02:16pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Always sad to hear about a new divorce. But take heart. Your divorce is what you make it to be. It can be a positive process, especially for the children, if you make choices in their best interest.
I've done it and know you can too by putting your children's emotional needs first when making any decisions related to them. Contact me if you have any questions.
Very best wishes to you and your family,
Rosalind Sedacca, CCT
Posted by Rosalind Sedacca on 07/27/2008 at 10:35am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Penelope is an ENTJ. A psychiatrist friend of mine says that people get along well when they are different in two categories on the Meyers-Briggs. I am an INTP, and I've often thought that an ENTJ would be a good match for myself; she would complement me in being more outgoing and decisive, but we would have the inner nature of intuiting and thinking in common. I findhe J or the P is a big deal in relationships. Two P's should be together. They are too passive, and certainly two J's shouldn't be together. Where's the balance. I would be willing to bet that Penelope's husband is a J.
Posted by Tony Monterastelli on 07/28/2008 at 02:41pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Wow, someone who blogs all the time is getting divorced? Who would of thought! I just thought people who spent time parenting and being there for their spouse got divorced.. My whole world view has changed.
Posted by John on 07/28/2008 at 09:36pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Listen youngsters. There is no "perfect" person for you no matter what the silly personality type is. The grass is not greener on the other side. If you have kids, then you should stick it out. The exception would be physical violence. When you have children, then your life (should) go on the back burner. It is not all about you anymore.
Posted by John on 07/28/2008 at 09:38pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Unfortunately life is not as black and white as you portray it, John. I totally agree that parents must put their children's best interest first in making all decisions. However, growing up in a family where the parents are not modeling love, respect, harmony and good will toward one another is doing a disservice to your children. Staying together for the sake of the kids is not always the best choice — it scarred my life when my parents stayed together in a miserable marriage — and I'm not alone.
Parents must make conscious decisions with their children's emotional needs as a primary focus. Then they can create a more positive future for everyone in the family. It's not divorce per se that scars children — it's unaware parents who are not taking responsibility for their actions. Let's work on educating parents about the consequences of all their decisions — without being too simplistic!
Posted by Rosalind Sedacca on 07/29/2008 at 10:42am | permalink | Reply to this comment
I just started my own blog about going thru divorce and my brother sent me this post…and I am also an ENTJ!!! (Funniest part is my first post is all about coincidences so cheers to this one).
Posted by Teri on 09/01/2008 at 06:06pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Penelope,
I am also an ENTJ who recently remarried, and I got a LOT of help from reading the book "Spiritual Divorce" a few times (I found it in the library.)
It's the only book of it's kind that I was able to come across back in 2003, and maybe there are others now, but the exercises were an amazing learning experience.
Posted by Francis on 10/14/2008 at 07:20pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Spiritual Divorce by Debbie Ford is a great read for anyone who wants to learn from their divorce and come away a better person as a result. There is a gift in every life challenge if we look for it and Debbie understands the value of doing the inner work before moving ahead to forge new relationships.
I highly recommend her book. My own book, How Do I Tell the Kids about the Divorce? A Create-a-
Storybook Guide to Preparing Your Children — with Love! also focuses on personal growth as well as ways to minimize the emotional trauma to our children. Visit http://www.howdoitellthekids.com to learn more.
Posted by Rosalind Sedacca on 10/19/2008 at 07:26pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I am also an ENTJ female who's divorce was just final today. I am a doctoral student and plan on becoming a professor. Your post really makes me wonder about ENTJ and relationship success. My ex-husband will tell you that the divorce was a surprise for him, but I have been having doubts about the relationship for years (we were married for 5 1/2 years). We don't have any kids (thank god) and most of our problems stemmed from the fact that he thought I was too outspoken and frank when I should have been more "tactful". It got to the point were I stopped expressing my opinion around him. I finally got to the point when I couldn't live that way anymore, and I told him. The rest, as they say, is history.
Posted by Erin Cornelius on 12/03/2008 at 03:41pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I just read this article and your previous one about stay at home dads. I also read the ENTJ article and resonate 100%. I felt like "finally! someone understands me!" Though I'm only 22 I've been married two years and many of the things you wrote about go through my mind. My husband and I have even talked about the stay at home dad thing for the future. My mom was absolutely, positively opposed to the idea, for the exact reasons you said it was failing in your marriage. My husband and I have had wonderful communication throughout our four years of knowing each other, but it has only been because of the wonderful marriage counseling and pre-marriage counseling we have been through. Have you read The Five Love Languages? Eye opener for me. I appreciate your transparency, and though I am much younger I know a day will come when I am struggling with the very things you're writing about. I don't know what the solution is, or how I will handle it in my own personal life. I guess I am just hoping it will work itself out. Thanks for your honesty. I can relate tremendously.
P.S. Sydney Owen got me back into blogging. I go to school with her. She told me you're her mentor. That's how I found you're blog.
Posted by Sophia Hyde on 03/12/2009 at 11:57pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Next time get a man with a job and you'll solve 50% of your problems. And of course, you could move back to New York ;)
Posted by Ryan on 11/29/2009 at 03:38pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Dear Penelope
In True Type style, I won't comment on the content but more on the communication. (I'm an ENFP and we do that.)
If you were ever confused about your Type, it may be useful to you (AND a comfort to your Shadow/Opposite) to know that you write like an ENTJ, not like an ENTP. Your issues are ISFP issues, not ISFJ issues – you don't harp on about ISFJ loyalty & devotion – which would tend to suggest ENTJ is your natural preference.
In accordance with Jung's theory, we are all BORN WITH OUR TYPE, it sometimes eludes us, is all. The MBTI instrument is not perfect, but it's the best of its kind in the world – and they're are now more than 600 profiling instruments around.
Cheers
Jane
jane@footprintdirections.com
Posted by Jane Oliver on 12/07/2009 at 07:14pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Good God you have provided me with a rich afternoon of reading. I'm only sorry it took me this long to discover your blog.
And you helped me understand why my husband frequently finds me so offensive…as a fellow ENTJ, you can imagine my dismay when he so often questions my obvious fabulousness. Seriously.
Adore you,
Lisa
Posted by Lisa on 12/08/2009 at 03:22pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
After reading your blog, memories came flying back. My marriage almost ended in divorce few years back and it was the hardest time of my life.
Posted by Janis G. on 12/09/2009 at 04:11am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Very true, thanks for sharing something so personal – I'm sure comforting for a lot of people going through this.
Mark
Posted by Mark on 12/13/2009 at 07:02pm | permalink | Reply to this comment