I just got fired from Yahoo Finance.
The long road to my quick termination started in the spring, when I grew friendly with one of the higher-ups in engineering at Yahoo. When he became my boss's boss's boss at Yahoo, he suggested that we meet if we were ever both in New York at the same time.
It turned out that we would both be there in December, so I asked him if he wanted to get together, and he said yes. His secretary said she'd email me the venue when the date was closer.
The week before, the venue turned out to be the Yahoo offices in New York. I thought that was weird for a casual meeting with a guy who did not even have his own office at that building. That is when I should have called to find out if we had a specific topic for the meeting.
When I got to the meeting my boss's boss was there as well, so I knew there was a big topic. I told myself to never ever walk into another meeting in my life without knowing who is coming and why I am there. I told myself to stay calm and start looking for clues about our topic so I could mentally prepare.
They went on and on about some sort of technical problem that was happening that day. Of the three of us, two were nontechnical, so I realized this topic was selected due to nervous energy: A clue that this meeting would be really bad.
To his credit, the guy I thought I was friendly with got right down to the point: "We are not renewing your contract."
The first thought I had was: When is my contract up?
And then I realized: Oh. Now.
The next thought I had was: Be poised. Do not break down right now.
I have been fired a lot. Sometimes it has not mattered, like when my grandma fired me from her bookstore because I kept reading on the job. Sometimes it has been a bad scene with me shaking because I was so scared – like when I was fired at Ingram Micro for using the computer for non-work-related stuff (Yes, people got fired for that in 1995.)
But I checked in with myself at Yahoo and realized that I was fine. I was not going to cry. I was actually in problem-solving mode.
So I asked why I was being fired.
Maybe you are thinking it's because every week, 400 people leave comments on Yahoo saying how stupid I am. (And surely today's final column at Yahoo Finance will break records for she-is-so-stupid comments.) But that's not the reason my column was cancelled; Yahoo is about traffic, and according to Wikipedia, my column has some of the highest traffic on all of Yahoo.
It turns out that financial content gets a higher CPM (advertising rate) than career content. So while my column has a lot of traffic, Yahoo sells my career column to advertisers as part of the Yahoo Finance package, and I bring down the CPM of the whole package.
That's a fair reason to cancel the column. And actually, if it were not resulting in a huge financial hit for me, it would be an interesting reason.
Here's what a career advisor does when she is being fired: She tries to remember the advice she gives to everyone else when they are getting fired.
I asked if there's another place I can write at Yahoo. This tactic is straight out of the book: Use your last moments to network, even if you are getting fired.
Here's what my boss's boss's boss said: "You should write for Lifestyles. That is more women oriented."
Immediately I was reminded of when my column was cancelled at Business 2.0 magazine. After I had recently announced that I was pregnant and said I did not plan to take any time off from writing the column.
My editor told me, as he was firing me, "Now that you're going to be a mom you should try writing someplace like Working Mother."
This advice from ex-bosses makes me question my own advice about getting help from people who are firing you. But still, discussions progressed at Yahoo to HotJobs, which is a Yahoo channel, and I could end up writing for them.
Also, a big trade publication called me last week to see if I want to write a column for them. The editor said that she sees me as such a huge risk taker, and she expects that the column will be a lot about that – how to take risks.
The thing is, I don't think I'm a huge risk taker. I just choose the lifestyle I want first, before I choose my work. Lifestyle first means that I turned down entry-level bullshit jobs in favor of playing professional beach volleyball. Not because I was dying to have all my friends think I was a lunatic, but because I couldn't believe people expect you to do mindless work after earning a college degree.
And the same is true now. I am a freelance writer because if I worked nine-to-five I wouldn't see my kids. That's my bottom line. There have been so many times when I've told myself that I can't stand the instability of a freelancer's life. But more than that, I can't stand the idea that I would only see my kids on the weekends.
People ask me all the time how can they get this life that I have where I do something I love, get to make my own hours, and support a family. Seems great, right? But that life also comes with this: having no idea how I'll get paid next. And it happens all the time.
Soon, I hope, I'll be able to draw a salary from my startup. And my speaking career is going well enough that getting fired from Yahoo won't kill me. But I am worried, and I think about not telling people that I feel worried because everyone who is negotiating with me now knows that money is super important to me, and I'm probably not going to walk away from an offer.
But more important than preserving an edge negotiating money is somehow documenting how hard it is to be true to yourself, how hard it is to be at risk all the time. It's a tradeoff. Sometimes my life looks glamorous. Sometimes it doesn't. It's all the same life though.









Penelope, so sorry to hear this! Their reason isn't a reflection on you, which is a sort of nice rarity when one is getting fired, not that that helps the bottom line any. You're such an excellent writer, able to make pretty much any topic you take on interesting and compelling and provocative, and I have to think this is just going to lead you somewhere better…
Posted by Ask a Manager on 12/27/2007 at 02:02am | permalink | Reply to this comment
I think you are right, Penelope – excellent writer.
But I'm sure that yahoo is wrong.
>> Sometimes my life looks glamorous. Sometimes it doesn't. It's all the same life though.
That's all.
Posted by seobag on 03/07/2009 at 10:38am | permalink | Reply to this comment
You see! This is what happens when you badmouth Christmas!
Posted by edw on 12/27/2007 at 02:06am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Sorry to hear this. Make sure you capitalize on all the readers who followed you at Yahoo. In some ways, Yahoo really gave you the audience. Now make sure we don't lose interest.
Posted by Ramirez on 12/27/2007 at 02:08am | permalink | Reply to this comment
I fire yahoo.
Posted by anne jackson on 12/27/2007 at 02:09am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Dear Penelope,
Thank you for writing your Yahoo column, I enjoyed reading some of your thoughts. As a career oriented person myself I know that there are up and down days. I especially enjoyed reading your columns when I;m having a career setback. Hopefully this is only a minor glitch in a successful career.
Posted by MN on 12/27/2007 at 02:11am | permalink | Reply to this comment
I have enjoyed reading your blog and am looking forward to seeing what exciting new changes lie ahead for you after this turn of events. Best wishes for the new year!
Posted by Lola on 12/27/2007 at 02:12am | permalink | Reply to this comment
I have been a recent, but persistent reader and admire your worldview. Moreover, I recently finished a book (Jump Point: How Network Culture is Revolutionizing Business, McGraw-Hill, January 2008) and have been modeling my next steps after your experiences. Let's keep in touch. I am sure many great adventures lie just ahead.
Tom
Posted by Tom Hayes on 12/27/2007 at 02:39am | permalink | Reply to this comment
I have to say I am an avid reader of your blog, I do consumer research for Gen-Y for a fortune 500 consumer products company and therefore know enough to know you are typically right on… I do read your columns on Yahoo! finance because the comments are funny (baby boomers) and they don't seem to be able to grasp the world we live in now (I'm a Gen-X'er BTW). Still, I have often asked myslef if you columns are lost on the typical yahoo! audience why would they post them, while it is the best thing they could do to wake up their readers, it probably doesn't work out that way (BTW I also like Kiyosaki on Yahoo! finance).
If yahoo! knows their audience is boomer-heavy, why does yahoo mail insist everyone have an avatar, I don't want an avatar! And I am sure everyone older than me feels the same way!
I wish you the best, hope you keep blogging as I have told many people at work to read your blog, it is a great window into the new corporate world whether people like it or not.
PS – I miss business 2.0
* * * * * * *
Hi, Tom. Thanks for the comment. The part about the avatars makes me laugh.
I will definitely keep blogging — did not think of stopping for even one second.
–Penelope
Posted by Tom S. on 12/27/2007 at 03:04am | permalink | Reply to this comment
I'm an avid reader of all things Penelope. It's something akin to watching horror movies. Your views are exciting but, also, quite scary. It's a pity Yahoo let you go, especially, during the Christmas season! Tactless…
So thank you for the articles. I'm quite sure you'll get a better deal from your next 'employer'. Happy New Year!
Posted by Kiran Denniz on 12/27/2007 at 03:34am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Penelope, (This is the comment I left at Yahoo!Finacial.)
I am more ashamed of the comments coming from the peanut gallery at Yahoo!Financial than anything I read from your pen. You'll find your audience, I'm sure of it. I gave up corporate life because of these hacks — who the hell wants to sit next to these miserable wonks eight hours a day picking everything and everyone apart. Instead I honestly believe that starting and growing a business is a far more honorable pursuit than kissing tail in the corporate sewers. I have more respect for you and your creative drive than anyone middle manager for a fortune 500 corporation. Those commenting on your articles had little regard for the need to develop interpersonal relationships and therefore didn't get most of what you were saying. Plus most of those commenting were men — and in all my corporate IT years, women still face opprobrious prejudices and ridicule from men. Good Luck.
Posted by marcparella on 12/27/2007 at 03:35am | permalink | Reply to this comment
God if I had a dollar for every time this happened to me I would be set. Stick to your guns, I read you every day and for the first time in my life I know another person whom marches to the same drum. Everything always works out for the best, one door closes and another one opens. All the best to you; I know it is my turn in early January 2008 – and I hope that I can face it with the dignity you have.
Always listen to your gut, it never lies.
David.
Posted by David Lightman on 12/27/2007 at 03:58am | permalink | Reply to this comment
I've only started reading your blog recently Penelope but can easily see you've the talent and the attitude to make this Yahoo thing an opportunity, not a setback. I had a career blip in mid-2007 but after the initial shock set about making the most of my situation. Now I'm doing what I love (;) and am finally writing for myself. Next is that book on procrastination I've been meaning to write for a while. Just watch… 2008 will be a great year for you.
Phil
Posted by Phil on 12/27/2007 at 07:21am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Dear Penelope,
I am sorry to hear about this. As I read your comments I tried to think if there is a reason that editor said you should write for Lifestyles, or something more women-oriented. The only reason I can come up with is that your are usually writing about RELATIONSHIPS–business relationships, boss-employee relationships, co-worker relationships, husband-wife relationships, etc. Maybe this is where his comment came from. That being said, this is what makes your columns so interesting.
It does appear, however, that you have an equal number of men reading. But perhaps this editor's thought is that more women are reading than men?
Good luck to you,
Mary in Marrakesh
Posted by Mary in Marrakesh on 12/27/2007 at 07:39am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Penelope, not to worry, as Yahoo! did help you build your brand, gain readership and an audience. Although the audience was aggressive and sometimes quite harsh, the right one's I'm sure pulled through.
Let me know if you need anything and merry christmas.
Change is a good thing!
Posted by Dan Schawbel on 12/27/2007 at 07:57am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Hang in there, I am sure with all your family responsibilities this must be tough.
Thanks for being gutsy enough to write about this stuff. If there is anything I can do to help with brainstorming etc, please reach out directly. Best, JB.
Posted by JimB on 12/27/2007 at 08:32am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Hi,
This sucks and I hope you know that I really get it because I've been there and I'm the breadwinner. When it did happen I hated pretty much everything anyone said to me, it all seemed pointless. But I ended up doing something very different, something I liked more. This didn't remove the stress or the fact that we lost money. But as cheesy as it sounds, there WAS a reason why it happened and I think there IS a reason why this will be good.
I am not an optimist — I don't like hopeful thinking. This comes from what I think is reality – they helped you build up your audience but there wasn't a great fit and now you don't need them. Yes, you need them for the money, but you'll find it elsewhere. You don't need them for reach and I always thought that was the key value they delivered.
Hang in there.
Posted by Nataly on 12/27/2007 at 08:55am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Penelope, your writing is brave and prescient and terrifying to the (still, mostly) male establishment. When you have the temerity to point out a fact that young twenty-somethings “at the top of their games” can no longer be controlled and manipulated by age-old corporate head games they know there’s a sea-change headed for their
dark walnut paneled/overstuffed mahogany leathered/cigar infested corporate suites.
The knee-jerk reaction they just handed you speaks poorly for that bullshit “hail-fellow-well-me” camaraderie they reserve for their own brethren. You keep on goin’ girl. Yours is a voice we can ill afford to do without.
Maureen
Posted by Maureen Sharib on 12/27/2007 at 09:01am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Penelope, that sucks. I'm sorry to hear about Yahoo.
And I 'feel' you about worrying that you are "at risk" all the time. But, I think that it makes life just a little more exciting. And, rest assured that life will provide you with the opportunities you need, often when you least expect it. ;)
Posted by Cody McKibben on 12/27/2007 at 09:26am | permalink | Reply to this comment
I agree with Maureen.
I mean — “You should write for Lifestyles. That is more women oriented.”? Holy shit.
That reminds me of the "Stanley, of course" line from Season One episode of The Office. (The boss's first pick for the basketball team is the one black guy in the office, who turns out to be a horrible athlete.)
I guess, until you adopt a male pseudonym, you'll always be pigeonholed as a female career columnist instead of just a career columnist.
Ah well, one thing's for sure: in a world oversaturated with punditry, your column was original enough to elicit passionate opinions.
Mazel tov on the first day of this new chapter in your life. I know there is great stuff in store for you.
Posted by Joe Grossberg on 12/27/2007 at 09:32am | permalink | Reply to this comment
I am sorry to hear this, but I am a true believer in EVERYTHING happens for a reason. I feel you will more than land on your feet.
Please ignore that person's insensitive Christmas comment, it is 100% inappropriate!!!
Posted by Marie on 12/27/2007 at 09:34am | permalink | Reply to this comment
it seems that your boss's boss's boss is such a male chauvinist. "More women oriented"? Just because you're a woman so your writing is only relevant for women, is that what he's thinking? He's soooo from the dark ages. I have fired yahoo.com long time ago, therefore i am sure you'll be doing fine without yahoo.
Posted by Rani on 12/27/2007 at 09:36am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Thanks for sharing this with us and again, being real about what's going on in your life.
It sucks to be blindsided (been there with a job here in Madison) but sounds like you've got the right thinking of how to use this as a learning experience and move on.
Though the excuse for firing seems valid, the comment about writing for a 'more woman oriented' column kinda ticks me off. If you wrote for a more woman oriented column, that would mean less male readers, which in turn would mean less male comments, which I enjoy reading and learn quite a bit from their point of view.
You seem to have a great attitude about this. Hope it hasn't been too bad. Learn, move on and make something greater, like your start-up! Maybe HotJobs will pan out, though sounds like it could be something porn related (I do know what HotJobs is, by the way!)
Posted by Karen on 12/27/2007 at 09:40am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Damn P…Sorry to hear that. I really enjoyed Thursday mornings when I could read your column on Yahoo. You have a talent for making people think about what they are reading…not all of it makes sense to everyone but it does shine a light in a different direction of thought. Looking forward to the next spot your article turns up!
Posted by Matt Bingham on 12/27/2007 at 09:48am | permalink | Reply to this comment
You know, this will probably end up being the best thing to ever happen to you. On Y Finance, you selling ice cream to eskimoes – a useful product that the particular audience didn't want and obviously had a good deal of disdain for.
Take it as a badge of honor and move on! Bigger and better things are ahead of you.
Posted by Aaron Erickson on 12/27/2007 at 10:05am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Penelope:
Been there, done that. And since I was fired I've ended up better off and better paid. You have a lot of talent and I love reading your blog, so keep on keeping on! I think you'll do just fine.
Scott
Posted by Scott on 12/27/2007 at 10:32am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Sorry to hear the news.
"More women oriented"? Someone actually said that to you? Wow.
LMAO about the avatars above.
Posted by Elizabeth on 12/27/2007 at 10:41am | permalink | Reply to this comment
And Yahoo wonders why they continuously lose ground to the likes of Google…frankly, your column was one of the best on Y! Finance, but I'll continue to check out your blog. And, as a young professional in his early 20s, I find it somewhat offensive that management would suggest your write for a women's magazine. That's just ridiculous; your articles are terrific for anyone who has a career, not just women. Good luck in your future endeavors.
Posted by wal on 12/27/2007 at 10:47am | permalink | Reply to this comment
What I don't understand is why the readers of Yahoo Finance were so abusive towards you in the comments, the anonymity of the internet makes it easy for people to say hurtful things.
Posted by jim on 12/27/2007 at 10:49am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Penelope,
More condolences. Although it doesn't help you, you're right. That is a really interesting reason for firing you.
Your thoughts on the dichotomy of freelance work are important and I hope a lot of people pay attention to them. I'm spending a lot of time trying to brand myself and work my way to the place where I can take that freedom. Having friends who freelance and face these challenges helps, it lets me see what I'm in for.
I wish you the best of luck in your future endeavors, and anticipate catching your columns wherever else they may appear.
(On a side note, Yahoo! is evil, has always been evil, and I was always annoyed to have to give patronage to the devil to read your columns anyway. A previous commenter has a good point. Yahoo!'s clientele seems to be primarily boomers, they don't seem very good at taking their audience into account.)
Posted by theo on 12/27/2007 at 10:55am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Well, having found your blog via Yahoo!, I'm sorry to see you go. I WON'T be sorry to stop seeing all those negative, mean-spirited comments, though. HotJobs (or Monster, CareerBuilder, etc) would be a logical choice, so I'm sure something will happen.
Posted by Norcross on 12/27/2007 at 10:56am | permalink | Reply to this comment
I don't always agree with you, but I enjoy reading. Someone's got to stir the pot, right? Sorry to hear you've lost your main source of income.
Thanks for the honesty. As a young woman trying to put lifestyle first, it is truly appreciated.
Posted by holly on 12/27/2007 at 11:00am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Have enjoyed reading your column. Will try to keep up through the blog.
Have you thought about writing for Forbes?
Posted by Mike on 12/27/2007 at 11:06am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Although I am sorry to see you were fired, many of your comments and advice were way off base. I am more sorry for all the folks who took your misguided advice and acted on it. You may be an OK person, but you are a terrible advice giver. Good luck on your new career.
Posted by James H on 12/27/2007 at 11:07am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Unlike your other readers, I'm not sorry for you, though I am going to miss the Thursday mornings at Yahoo Finance. But things happen for a reason, and there's no sense in feeling sorry for ourselves when they do. Yahoo wasn't the place for you, and your posts here on your own blog are MUCH better. Good luck with future endeavors, and I'll just change the bookmark to redirect here.
Posted by deepali on 12/27/2007 at 11:09am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Penelope,
While I didn't always agree with your advise, I still felt that your articles brought a new angle to the table which either caused me to strengthen my own beliefs or change them to fit a wider mold. For that reason alone (of course there were other reasons too!), your column was greatly worth reading. I'm sorry to hear about you getting fired but we've all been there and you'll do just fine.
Might I suggest talking to the people over at Google? You'll have a guranteed following from the fans of your writing style and all of those angry people that always post comments on your articles. Seeing as how Yahoo Finance is still top dog, I'd be willing to bet that Google would view taking you on as a way to increase their market share.
Best of luck,
David Cox
Posted by David Cox on 12/27/2007 at 11:10am | permalink | Reply to this comment
I'm a new reader to your blog and the previous posts in your archieve. Damm it sucks to be let go from any job.
All I can say is sometimes you have to make lemonade from lemons and I have this feeling you will be OK. Have a good one.
BB
Posted by Bouncing Betty on 12/27/2007 at 11:13am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Sorry to hear that. I'm sure you'll bounce back.
I think this goes to show the wisdom of your advice to cultivate a braided career and avoid putting all your eggs in one basket.
Posted by Caitlin on 12/27/2007 at 11:15am | permalink | Reply to this comment
I have truly enjoyed your columns to the point where I pass them along to my 16 and 17 year old of how to cope with the working world.
I've gone the corporate route for 25 years and been through what you're going through. Yahoo is making yet another mistake.
If all I wanted to read was finance, there are other sites I could go to. Keep up the great work, you are influencing people much more beyond the column. Kids will outlive all of us regardless of whatever the current CPM is.
I hope your supervisors continue to read your columns. They are going to need your advice just like the now former supervisors at AOL, MCI and Enron do. Castles made of sand fall in the eventually.
Posted by Bill Knudson on 12/27/2007 at 11:39am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Penelope,
Honestly, you will be missed. A few of my coworkers and I had good fun with several of your articles.
Just an FYI, the line from wikipedia "one of the most traficked sections of Yahoo Finance, although most of her comments are negative" was written by yours truly, and there is no scientific basis or web traffic report I can cite to.
Good luck on your future endeavors,
Jesse
Posted by Jesse Cline on 12/27/2007 at 11:59am | permalink | Reply to this comment
If nothing else – you have proven that you are a survivor. I have read your blogs for years and will continue to do so.
I am frankly relieved to see you off the Yahoo site. Those comments were rarely useful, insightful or meaningful. I can't believe that they didn't somehow affect you. I wished that you could have written that column without getting all of the immature feedback. If you were so bad, whay did all of those idiots keep reading you?
You are an outstanding source of information for me and I have come to know you as a psuedo career counselor / mentor.
I don't always agree with your posts, however they all make me think, form my own opinions and most importantly – examine my own life and career. I am waiting for the future post when you can look back at this and see that this was a blessing.
Keep up the frank and honest advice.
Posted by Mitch on 12/27/2007 at 12:00pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Hi Penelope,
I'm sorry to hear about this financial hit you're taking right now with the loss of the column. I am grateful that I found this blog through Yahoo, though and know you'll keep growing.
Posted by Joselle Palacios on 12/27/2007 at 12:03pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I will miss the comments at Yahoo, most of them were dead on.
Posted by jake on 12/27/2007 at 12:09pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Having been in the online advertising business, the reason the folks at Yahoo gave does ring true. Intuitively, my guess is that your audience isn't super-valuable to folks trying to push brokerage accounts and mutual funds. Ramit's blog is a much better fit (wouldn't it be great to see how much hate mail *he'd* get…of course he would revel in the hatred).
On the other hand, they are morons for being willing to give up a lightning rod for pageviews and controversies. Sounds like things are way too siloed over there.
As some of the commenters have pointed out, Yahoo has served its purpose. It brought your blog a big audience. Lord knows, the financial part of it hurts (those who have never been a freelancer or entrepreneur don't understand what a miracle it is to get money deposited in your bank account every two weeks regardless of what you've done), but you'll be able to focus on writing the kinds of posts you want to write, and on building the startup.
Firings may not be fair, but its rare that a firing occurs without a reasonable degree of misfit between the two parties. Freed from Yahoo's constraints, you can now write the way you want to write, and that's a good thing.
Posted by Chris Yeh on 12/27/2007 at 12:16pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Hey Penelope,
I didn't read your Yahoo column so I guess I won't be missing anything. Good luck in the next thing, whatever it is. I don't always agree with what you say, but it sure makes for a good stir in the bucket some days.
Posted by gt on 12/27/2007 at 12:29pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
That sucks, but think you will come out stronger for it. The start-up will be a success, you are building a great team that is building a great network.
I think you have it figured out, and if you don't you'll try and try again.
Posted by Greg Rollett on 12/27/2007 at 12:44pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Stupid, stupid, stupid!
There are only two infinite things: The Universe and the stupidity of people. And I am not sure about the first one. – A. Einstein.
Posted by AEinstein on 12/27/2007 at 12:47pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
now that… was a great blog. Well done and all the best in your next steps. i will definitely stay tuned in 2008!
Posted by john on 12/27/2007 at 12:48pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
P-
Isn't life a ball??? I was fired right after my mother died unexpectedly this year. But I immediately started the job search and quickly found a position in another firm that seems more in line with my goals, let alone pays better. I'm sure you'll find a better path yourself and everything will work out. I love your blog and will continue to follow your writing, wherever the path takes you. Enjoy the holidays!
Posted by R78 on 12/27/2007 at 12:49pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Why not continue the column on this site? It seems like you have built enough traffic for a following – hatred or not. Throw a few ads up, look up Feedburner ads into your feeds, market your self/this site a bit more, and well you might get some of that revenue back.
Posted by Dustin on 12/27/2007 at 12:52pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Penelope! Here's wishing you an even brighter and more prosperous 2008.
I think bigger and better things are going to come your way. You are so funny, honest, perceptive, and insightful that you'll be able to write a number of places.
I've learned more from your columns then from some of the "preachy" books I've read on careers & relationships.
You remind me that nobody has the answers…and that even career columnists get fired sometimes. It makes me realize that all of us have lives that are messy and works in progress adn that's the way it should be.
Kudos to you for your brave writing! Looking forward to more of the same in 2008
Posted by Vidya on 12/27/2007 at 01:11pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Ahh…yes. One more indication showing how google gets it and yahoo doesn't.
Because at yahoo, they've (sadly) long since digressed into "maximizing shareholder value" vs. "helping the customer kick ass"
"yeah…she's a great draw, does a very excellent job, but frankly you're just not meeting our arbitrary metrics".
Take heart Penelope, it could be worse. ( http://headrush.typepad.com/creating_passionate_users/2005/01/giving_a_damn_a.html )
-aaron
Posted by aaron on 12/27/2007 at 01:18pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Sounds like a very strange way to get fired, a chance meeting while both are in New York? I guess they weren't too upset at your work. At least there are other sources of income while you seek better employment than at Yahoo. Your articles are certainly thought-provoking and interesting to read.
I agree with another poster, call Google – they'd love to widen the gap with Yahoo even more….
Enjoy those kids during the holidays!!
Posted by chuck on 12/27/2007 at 01:18pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Penelope,
Your advice has always been about what is *really* going on in the world, but people are either too stupid or too scared to acknowledge it. I would say also that your comments about the "next generation" of work are also true. Here in Silicon Valley where I work, your posts are stunningly accurate and on point. I suspect that many of the commenters on Y! finance are simply old men, or perhaps someone you've personally offended, or perhaps even a competitor. People in the midwest do not understand yet—their old line factories have not yet caught up with the new world reality. These are the same people who riot at the idea of the global economy.
Hang in there, girl. I must tell you I think the people at Y! really are Yahoos—-I've yet to meet people who worked there who were intelligent with leadership skills. I've turned down several opportunities to work there because the people were just insufferable. Most are people trying to do as little as possible to get by to protect their stock options. Having you fly on your own time and expense to NYC to pull this crap is typical of the Harvard Business School morons I've worked with—::snort:: leadership my a$$.
I don't always agree with you—In particular I think you embrace the "age wars" concept a little too much—but you are honest about your life, direct in your writing, and always have something new and interesting to write about.
Slightly off topic–I was stunned to read the comments at Y! finance that someone suggested you not use links in your posts? Where do their readers come from, Mississippi? Sheesh!
You've been on my RSS feed for awhile, and like the others I hated going to Y! to finish a column from my blog reader. So….consider me a loyal reader.
Posted by A Gal on 12/27/2007 at 01:34pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I'd occasionally glance at the comments from your Yahoo article and was really disappointed with the unprofessionalism. It's one thing to disagree but name calling is just ridiculous.
Yahoo's audience really wasn't a good fit (I can't believe I just used that HR cop-out phrase)for you. Microsoft's MSN is in desperate need of some attention, maybe you give them a call.
Posted by Jeremiah on 12/27/2007 at 01:35pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Penelope-
I've been using the MBPT as my hammer lately and it works for alot of nails!
I am a ENFP and am guessing that is what you are too. When I read your material, I understand your points exactly. With this type of thinking, I have had a very successful (in flexibility and money) engineering consulting career.
The 400 comments came from mostly IS (Introverted Sensing) people. Who is most likely to be conducting a dialog using a computer, introverted or extraverted? And who bases their decisions on written information, intuitive or sensing?
Why are there so many IS boomers writing negative comments?
1. Your largest audience is by definition IS people which is our Inferior type.
I suspect the x'er culture has produced more EN people and the boomer culture has created more IS people. I also think something in the Jewish culture tends to create more EN people. (I would like to see a study on this!)
2. The IS people don't understand EN people.
We synthesize and draw conclusions based on things that seem perfectly obvious to us, but they don't understand how we come come up with this "crap". Professionally, I try to have a ES or IN person buffer my dialog with the IS types. (seek an editor of these types)
3. IS are more likely to write comments.
As an ENFJ, I have never left comments on Yahoo in support of you. Unless I have something insightful to add, I have better things to do.
Only a bored person would leave comments with no added insight. The IS people like to be in a routine, don't move on for better things, therefore are more likely to be bored.
Posted by John on 12/27/2007 at 01:52pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I really enjoyed reading your articles on yahoo. Now that I have found your blog I am hooked. By looking at the amount of negative comments left on Yahoo, I will have to agree with Jeremiah. The Yahoo audience (in general) was not a good fit.
Keep up the good work.
Posted by Denita on 12/27/2007 at 01:55pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
You are simply awesome. I found you through Yahoo; so if nothing else it was a conduit to a larger audience. I am eager to see what the future brings to you, you are a role model and mentor to me and many others. Wherever you land, we will all be here.
Posted by jahmai on 12/27/2007 at 02:07pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Hi Penelope, I'm really sorry to hear about this. If it makes you feel better, from my perspective your personal blog has been more influential than your Yahoo! column. I know how hard the financial stuff can be, but at least the speaking is bringing in good money, and you still get higher advances for your books than most authors I know.
I too sometimes get mired in the difficulties of the life we have chosen, and it helps when a colleague or reader says to me that they would give anything to be in my position: to be doing what they love, on their own schedule. I think that we really are very lucky in the scheme of things.
Hang in there. 2008 is bound to bring lots of good things.
Best,
Alexandra Levit
Posted by Alexandra Levit on 12/27/2007 at 02:11pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Hi Penelope! That really sucks about Yahoo. I loved reading your column there. I know you will land something great very soon. In my experience of getting fired, it always frees me up to accept an even better opportunity!
Also, I think your life seems glamorous because you have the knowledge, ability and platform to help people. You have helped me to clarify my career goals and to see what matters most to me. It's really wonderful what you do.
Posted by Charlie on 12/27/2007 at 02:11pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Well — sounds like the Yahoo! execs don't know how to make money off great content. This does not bode well for them, but given the way that company has been going lately, not much does.
Good luck! If more people just add your RSS feed here, you won't need Yahoo! :)
Posted by late_twentysomething on 12/27/2007 at 02:20pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Sorry to hear about the unfortunate turn of events.
But at the risk of preaching a bit…..As a career adviser, you would do well to take a lesson from Dave Ramsey's teachings to prepare yourself financially for the sudden loss of income. If you follow his philosophies, you'll make yourself financially healthy enough to withstand the uncontrollable circumstances you've just experienced. The grass will be more green and the air will be more fresh than ever once you've achieved financial freedom. It'll set you free.
Good luck going forward.
Posted by Jim on 12/27/2007 at 02:27pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
The Yahoo column really wasn't very good.
Posted by Mary Greenberg on 12/27/2007 at 02:31pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Hey Miss P, sorry to hear about this.
It's never fun.
As you know, personal finance, especially behavioral finance, is my Big Passion.
So if you ever want to discuss personal financial ideas/options, just email me, ok?
As you know I volunteer as a financial counselor here in SEA and help people all the time with their financial roadmap.
Posted by finance girl on 12/27/2007 at 02:38pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
The end of one thing signals the beginning of something else. You can't have one without the other. Now that the end of Yahoo is behind you – let's see what now gets started.
It'll be fun to watch. Maybe even inspirational.
Live long and prosper – Spock
Later,
LK
Posted by Leonard Klaatu on 12/27/2007 at 02:44pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
P:
I can guarantee that there is a bigger opportunity for you and this firing is just making room for that. I've been telling my friends this for years when crappy things happen at work. Then about 1.5 years ago I had a crappy work thing happen to me (didn't get a promotion I thought was in the bag) and one of my friends gave me the whole "bigger opportunity" speech and I was really annoyed with her. But she was right. I got my dream job six months later. Had I been promoted, I'd still be at my old job working with a bunch of monkeys.
I know you're a tough chick and really don't need my pep talk, but I wanted to send some positive vibes your way.
Posted by Suzanne on 12/27/2007 at 02:45pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Hey, don't look the lifestyles thing like an insult. Career driven advice does fit in better with a lifestyles channel than an investing channel. Regardless of the proposed audience, it could just be the perfect fit with far fewer dismissive comments.
Posted by Ted on 12/27/2007 at 02:53pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Penelope,
Most of the people who cast stones on the Yahoo blog aren't smart enough to use an RSS reader – as always, it's sure that you'll receive a more thoughtful and critical response on your blog.
Yahoo's decision to enable comments on their expert blogs was a misguided attempt to generate any sort of viral effect after so many other failed attempts at creativity – I'm sure it boosted the bottom line a little, but it will inevitably drive away talent. They have consistently grasped at straws and shuffled their feet as the managers and sycophants wrench the reigns away from the creative and technically adept at that organization.
Yahoo is a company in deep pain and in serious need of an identity enema. They have a staggering (internal and external) inferiority complex to Google and are hacking away with a machete at everything outside the core group (you) before they actually admit the true depth of the coming restructure. This reeks of a mid-level executive attempting to save his job.
It is truly ironic and sad that they would cut loose such a fruitful source of traffic without even considering an immediate internal referral – it speaks to the deep disfunction and siloism that exists in that organization.
The truth is rarely popular with corporatism – you have been honest and helped those who would listen to maybe avoid the 2-7% yearly pay increase for which so many misguided souls will settle. In that, you have helped people grow and enjoy more fulfilling lives. Thank You.
Good luck with your future – I will be reading.
Mojo
Posted by Mojo on 12/27/2007 at 03:00pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I fired Yahoo about 10 years ago. Who really does use Yahoo?? Do they really have anything to offer? They aren't anything special..
This is a blessing in disguise as the ending of most jobs. You should be really happy you are not associated with a company that is not going any where. They seem to be content with being number 2. Personally I think your writing is star status and I am really surprised that I randomly found your web page.
Oh and I am here also
"The thing is, I don’t think I’m a huge risk taker. I just choose the lifestyle I want first, before I choose my work. Lifestyle first means that I turned down entry-level bullshit jobs in favor of playing professional beach volleyball. Not because I was dying to have all my friends think I was a lunatic, but because I couldn’t believe people expect you to do mindless work after earning a college degree."
it makes life more livable and interesting.
Good Luck with whatever you do.
P.S. Yahoo: Business 2.0 went out of business because they made stupid business decisions like letting great writers go..
Posted by Katie on 12/27/2007 at 03:07pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I'm sorry to see you leaving, Penelope, and even sorrier about Business 2.0, which I still miss even after all this time.
I'd like to think there's some possibility the "Lifestyles" comment was meant sincerely and with the best of intentions but just came out horribly, horribly wrong. This doesn't seem to be the case, however.
I wish you the best going forward, and I'd like to see how Yahoo responds to this, if at all (you know there will be people posting about it all over the blogosphere and the conversation boards at Yahoo – I came here via Valleywag).
It might come as a total shock to them to find out that there are actually working women who make and invest money and appreciate a woman's presence – and perspective – on finance and career issues!
How about *that* for a "Lifestyles" topic?
Posted by Jeff O'Connor on 12/27/2007 at 03:21pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Although I have rarely agreed with your advice. I have enjoyed you column. It's been nice to get a different view point than my own. I'm also far to mature to bash you on your own bandwidth.
Good luck in your future endeavors. I will continue to follow your blog
Posted by Jennifer on 12/27/2007 at 03:36pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I'm glad that your alarmingly bad advice such as "Don't ask for time off, just take it." and "Tone down your work ethic." will no longer be part of Yahoo!.
Posted by matt on 12/27/2007 at 03:58pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Penelope,
I've really enjoyed reading your Yahoo! column–such a fresh perspective on careers and life. Don't lose any of your edge and your opinions; they challenge us as readers and life-livers. I look forward to seeing where you land next.
–Tyler
Game Designer, Writer
Posted by Tyler Sigman on 12/27/2007 at 04:01pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Penelope:
Strange how after reading your post and all the comments that all I feel is happiness and joy for you.
Getting fired sucks, yes, when you aren't quite prepared. I know theoretically we should all have six month's expenses in the bank, but the reality is that most people don't. For all I know you may … but it still requires a big attitude adjustment to get used to less predictable income each month.
The reason I know you will be ok is that you speak your truth. You may not feel like a risk-taker, but from my perspective you are one of the most courageous people I know. You speak your truth, even when you know it is unpopular and will make you a target. Those that don't write for a living may not understand the emotional fortitude it takes to write from your heart about things that are important to you, then hang a picture of your face on a great big target when you press the "publish" button. It is so much easier to criticize than come up with original ideas!
I agree with the readers that say Yahoo was not the best place for you. There are "your" people out there (many at this blog) waiting for your specific advice, who will put it to good use and make positive changes in their life. No advice is right for everyone, since we are all different.
Taking you out of that gig has freed you up for a different situation, one which will stretch and grow you in new ways.
When my husband lost a few huge contracts this year with no notice, we used the time to step back and re-assess what we wanted to do with the business. The downtime allowed us to complete some key things that have positioned us for more stability and growth in the coming year. It was scary as hell figuring out the financial side, but we made it and everything worked out.
You are bright and talented and will not hurt for money to take care of your family. Trust me! Just keep doing what you are doing.
Happy New Year! Looking forward to the next chapter.
Posted by Pamela Slim on 12/27/2007 at 04:05pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Your column was the first and only thing I've read on Yahoo! I loved the fresh perspective, and to be honest, the weird hate comments were really an interesting window into a dying corporate mindset. I'll miss your column, but I look forward to whatever comes next. Personally, I'm hoping it's not "lifestyles" – blech!
Good luck.
Posted by lizriz on 12/27/2007 at 04:14pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Penelope, I know you'll bounce from this and likely onto something even better. Here's hoping this is one of the closed doors/opened windows deals, which will lead to a more prosperous 2008!!
Posted by dawn on 12/27/2007 at 04:14pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Thanks for sharing this; I can imagine how disruptive it would be to lose that contract. But I'm still a little envious–you have multiple streams of income whereas I merely have multiple streams of work. Losing a big income stream is tough, but it is not the same thing as if I were fired from my job and suddenly unemployed without health care coverage for my growing family.
I think it is smart for you to tell the story (the facts behind the "why") here. The permanently pessimistic readers at yahoo will claim victory and try to spin this as vindication of their criticism of you. Actually it simply proves they are worth less to yahoo than the successful people who read the financial blogs on yahoo. All those yapping fools are bringing down the collective value of the Yahoo Finance brand…so, arguably, they got fired too.
I think you will find something better quickly. Good luck!
Posted by Dave Atkins on 12/27/2007 at 04:20pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
First and foremost edw is a loser and needs to grow up.
Secondly I am sorry about being fired from Yahoo, but you never know…being fired from Yahoo could open up new and better doors for you.
P.S. I wish I could make a living off of web-design so I could be with my 3 children everyday instead of working a 9-5. You're truly blessed.
Posted by Samara on 12/27/2007 at 04:41pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Pen;
I've always been a firm believer in two things: When God closes a door, he always opens a window; and living well is the best revenge.
Go & get 'em! I know that you will do a great column wherever you land, and it will be fabulous! You always seem to get to the root of the issue (even if others don't want to hear it) quickly, and offer great advice.
Good luck in the New Year, and in your new endeavors!
Posted by Susan Sherrouse on 12/27/2007 at 04:57pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I suggest you get in a flowery dress with a frilly apron and go back to the guy who suggested you write about "Womens' topics" and tell him that you'd love to take his suggestion, but you're afraid that your role is to stay home and cook all day long, so you really don't feel comfortable with it. You're grateful however, that he was so kind as to suggest something like that…..ahh, what a twit.
Business is as much for women as finance and as childraising and as cooking.
Anyway, good luck with your next move!
Posted by Mrs. Micah on 12/27/2007 at 05:02pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Another idea, you might consider writing for the Wall Street Journal. They have some great blogs and I think your content would be super fresh for them. They have a great blog called The Juggle that is often controversial and heated in its exchanges, though much less filled with vitriol than Yahoo Finance.
Posted by A Gal on 12/27/2007 at 05:03pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
PT,
The whole 'I got canned because I brought the CPM rate down' is pure baloney. Doesn't it make sense that if "Yahoo is about traffic" and your "column has some of the highest traffic on all of Yahoo" then Yahoo would keep you around since you provide their advertizers with the exposure they desire? If you provided more impressions than the other columnists (which your citation of Wikipedia supports) then you should attract a higher CPM, not lower.
I can only conclude that CPM was not the rfeal reason they dumped you. The real reason was that your advice was just terrible – plain and simple. Your column made a mockery of Yahoo's attempt to provide reliable, sound advice, so they no longer wanted to associate your "brand" with theirs. Result – you got canned. You weren't the first (e.g. Rosie – great for the ratings, terrible brand), and you won't be the last.
My advice to you and your readers is: work hard, do a good job, and don't expect something for nothing.
Posted by Tertius on 12/27/2007 at 05:12pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I never read what you write for Yahoo, unless you link to it from your blog. I'm extremely selective about the blogs I read daily; I only allow myself five and if I find one I like better than my five, I have to eliminate one. You are solidly in my five. I admire your fearless candor and your balance between your personal struggles and achievements and career advice. I've used your advice to my significant benefit when negotiating salary for a new job. Just wanted you to know that, even when I totally disagree with you, I think you are quite spectacular.
Posted by Casey on 12/27/2007 at 05:32pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Tertius –
CPM is not about how much traffic you have. It's about how much each impression is worth. Yahoo is about traffic, but they need to monetize that traffic.
Posted by Erik on 12/27/2007 at 05:36pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Bwah-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha!!! Or should I say "Yahoo!"?
Posted by Trunk Addict on 12/27/2007 at 05:41pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I'm amused the pinheads from Yahoo have shown up. They must really be losers with no life to follow someone around like this.
Don't feed the trolls folks. Ignore them and they will go away.
Penelope, I urge you to purge the comments that come from people like trunk addict. I don't want to have to read that negativity.
Posted by A Gal on 12/27/2007 at 05:52pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
maybe you should go get an MBA. It's a great degree for changing the direction of your career. In addition to providing a great business network, it gives you more qualifications and education to put on your resume, which it seems like you might be needing now. Just a thought.
Posted by bob on 12/27/2007 at 05:58pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I can't believe that Yahoo thinks "finance" is just about what the stock market is doing or not doing today or whether the housing boom was actually a bubble (DUH). Zillions of sites cover money in a male-oriented way, complete with sports metaphors, which is a real snoozer for over half the population.
They're SO wrong about this. Chin up, Penelope.
Posted by Arlene on 12/27/2007 at 06:04pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I think the column on yahoo finance was just geared toward a different crowd and age group. Mostly workers in their 40's who work a stable 9-5 job and find it insulting to read any other options are available, which they obviously are. People don't like change. Especially old timers who work their daily jobs, raise kids and don't think they have time to be creative. I think they are partially angered because they know a lot of the information in PT's blog is true.
Now I don't want to insult anybody who "work hard, do a good job, and don’t expect something for nothing" like my man Tertius says, but I don't see anything in this blog that has anything conflicting with working hard and getting something for nothing. On the contrary, the advice on this column emphasizes the hard work it takes to make it and PT's career path shows that.
It's unbelievable to me the amount of negative comments these old timers describe in the yahoo finance articles and it really feels that SOME of them believe in what they write and aren't just writing for fun. As a 27 year old Y gen, I now realize the age gap makes such a huge difference. Its amazing.
Posted by ejohnson on 12/27/2007 at 06:13pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Erik:
You said "Yahoo is about traffic, but they need to monetize that traffic." I could not agree more. In fact that was my point. Her brand outweighed the traffic. Same thing with Rosie. PT's advice was terrible; and her reputation was even worse. This was especially the case once she was outed as Adrienne Eisen. Yahoo had no choice but to dump her, high traffic or not. The fact is, like it or not, we are often judged by the company we keep. Yahoo is trying to build/maintain a reputation as a credible/professional source for business and financial news/information. We can debate whether or not they're being successful, but the bottom line was that PT seriously undermines that goal.
And here Gen-Y is another lesson – the choices we make while we are young can have lifelong consequences. Once PT decided to establish herself as a professional business/career advisor, she should have buried all the Adrienne Eisen stuff as deep as she could. It completely destroyed any hope of her ever having professional credibility.
Posted by Tertius on 12/27/2007 at 06:14pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
it's not terrible advice, just not fit for yahoo finance maybe? Old man Tertius is just bitter and has nothing else to do at his 9-5 job. Where he gets paid to sit around surfing the web and chat with other losers who make an average of 50k a year with their benefits and great vacation time complaining about their jobs and lives all day and being annoyed when people tell them they have to actually do something like pick up the phone or send out an email.
Posted by ejohnson on 12/27/2007 at 06:23pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Been there: Done that! I too recall an annual contract that was not renewed. It was a dream job while it lasted. Not really a problem though, because I left a bunch of axx holes behind, even though many friends suffered as well. You will be better off being who you are, and not getting back into the same future you faced coming out of college. You now have a terrific credential to list on your resume'. Perseverance is a virtue; hang in there!
Posted by Laser-Red on 12/27/2007 at 06:24pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Penelope, I always look forward to your blog. I read my blogs in order and your voice is clear, informative and quirky. I usually read through your post twice to see if I missed anything. Your links are plentiful and worth visiting.
I never understood the Yahoo column anyway except for the good pay. I guess I thought Yahoo was trying to broaden their base by adding your column. And I thought that was a good strategy for them.
I noticed a few comments telling you that you owe your popularity to the Yahoo column. For me, it was the other way around. I read Yahoo because I had visited your blog most days. You seem to be a 'land on your feet kind of girl' so…. on to the next venture.
Elizabeth Partin
Posted by Elizabeth Partin on 12/27/2007 at 06:41pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Anyone else appreciate the irony of the comments here?
Number 1) Ad hominem attacks on the audience of Yahoo! Finance who are usually criticized for their ad hominem attacks on Penelope.
Number 2) All of you people think Penelope's advice is dogma, but she just lost her job.
Yahoo! Finance is a well respected finance site and the home page of thousands of professionals. We are not all Baby Boomers (I'm 26). Of course the ad hominem attacks are uncalled for, but there are plenty of people (like myself) who debate and debunk Penelope's advice when we disagree with it (which is honestly only like 25% of the time). Every week I read insiteful commentary that addresses the same topic from a different point of view.
Penelope is a human that just lost her job and I feel bad about that. But it is just proof that no one knows everything and all "expert advice" should be taken with a grain of salt and scrutinized. In the accounting world we call it professional skepticism.
The thing is, its hard to give advice that hits every personality type. There is no definition of successful, so of course there is no way in hell of describing the personality type that becomes successful. There are tons of extroverted people who make a killing in sales or executive positions, and there are tons of introverted people who make a killing managing hedge funds and analyzing portfolios. It doesn't mean one is better than the other or one is right and one is wrong, it just means we are different and take different paths to be successful.
I think the target market at Yahoo Finance should have been the latter, and that is what Penelope's major flaw was. Instead of targeting that group, she did the opposite and created a divide pitting intros vs extras, young vs old, etc. How relevant would it be for me to go to a marketing website and address the importance of keeping current with economics and accounting standards?
Posted by Jesse Cline on 12/27/2007 at 07:02pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
EJohnson: "As a 27 year old Y gen, I now realize the age gap makes such a huge difference. Its amazing."
Please don't speak for our generation. You are perpetuating the myth that we are all arrogant and have a sense of entitlement.
When I was 16 I thought I knew everything, by the time I was 18 I looked back and knew I had no idea.
When I was 18 I thought I knew everything, by the time I was 21 I looked back and knew I had no idea.
Now I look back at when I was 21 and realize I still had no idea what I was talking about. Hopefull when I am 60 I will still be looking back like that. Its called wisdom and experience. Don't assume you know more than an older person solely because you read career blogs. A lot of these blogs just say what we want to hear, and it doesn't mean its true.
Posted by Jesse Cline on 12/27/2007 at 07:15pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
You know, getting fired is like breaking up. Sometimes it's because someone did something wrong. And sometimes it's because it just isn't going to work out. There's nothing wrong with the second. Penelope's losing her job at Yahoo doesn't mean she isn't qualified to give career advice. It just means she was in the wrong position, will hopefully learn something from it, and will go on to blog about it and share the lessons. That's where the really good advice comes from – someone learning something the hard way and sharing that experience with the rest of us.
Posted by deepali on 12/27/2007 at 07:27pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I'm sorry for your firing. Personally I'd have had a very difficult time not kicking the condescending twit who told you to write "womens' stuff". That's disgraceful and he should be ashamed. I hope his wife gives him hell..
This astonished me:
"I don’t think I’m a huge risk taker. I just choose the lifestyle I want first, before I choose my work. "
Choosing a lifestyle is a perquisite of the rich, more specifically the rich who inherited their wealth. The rest of us don't get it. You have to sell a part of your life to get a living. Now I agree that the price of getting a living may be far too high, but it's on a scale with the risk taken. Choosing your lifestyle first puts you on the extreme edge of risky business.
Posted by Doug K on 12/27/2007 at 07:39pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Congratulation on being happy and excited about your career. It's defintely one path, I'm just saying there are others. I graduated from UCLA computer science back in 01 and worked at northrup as a s/w engineer for 2 years before I started consulting work and jumping on various projects. Not the greatest technical school nor grades, but it was easy to get a job back then with the degree. I have a couple clients which has provided income on a retainer bases since the time i worked at northrup, i also do consulting work at a regular industry rate of 65/hr fulltime. I also am involved in various startups which generate just enough income to cover the costs but have high upside potential and are damn exciting. I do NOT have vacation, benefits (i pay them on my own and have SEP IRA as well as 401k from northup and great medical which costs about 4-500 a month) and although i took the past 2 months off to work on other projects and to travel. I requested a part time contract for renewal as opposed to a fulltime to allow for more flexibility. Here are some of your criticisms, I know you were bringing them up in a snide kind of way, but just wanted to make comments on them anyway:
Do yoga in the bathroom – Many people work out or do stretching exercises, go to the gym, and even have posters that companies hand out to teach them how. Her advice was pretty much aligned with those in corporate.
facebook my CEO – I facebook, google, linked in a lot of people I meet which help me gain information before meeting with them, interviwing or talking to them about business. "Never eat alone" is a great book that mentions these tools in networking. a CEO would be a great candidate for this.
for the ladies: show a little skin – thats obvious. I like that, you like that.. even girls like that if its not in a slutty way.
also for the ladies: expect a little sexual harassment at work (but don’t tell HR as it is bad for your career) – the main point was "little" sexual harrasement. she doesn't advocate not reporting actual misconduct (and come on, you have enough common sense t know what that is, and also enough comment sense to know that the way many guys communicate with girls regularly can be construed as "little" sexual harrasement depending on who you speak with) to HR.
take vacation whenever you feel like it, without asking your boss – You should take a vacation when you need it while making sure your responsiblities are taken care of and if your boss has a problem with you taking a vacation even though all your bases are covered.. then thats another issue with the company and boss.
cut corners on your work – work efficiently..i bet your employees could finish their work in nearly half the time alloted… more or les.. especially if you're an "engineering" manager, you shoud know this. I have various projects I outsource and as long as the clients are satisfied and service is exceptional, i don't see any problems. I'm not a brain surgeon, i think it's fine..
work at 8 different jobs by the time you’re 30 – I dont even understand what you issue is with this. You think it's better to stay at a job for 8-10 years out of college when you know that most recent grads aren't sure what they really want to do or what their real skills lie in at at that point in their lives? They'll be stuck at a certain point with the choice of starting from scratch in another career path or just staying with a current career they hate.
get training on how to deal with e-mail in lieue of pay raises. when I was working in corporate the raises were 5-8%, it varies depending on industry and company of course. But I spent more utilizing their training in programming/database/leadership/speech/business courses than that easily. 1 course was 2500 itself.. it was condensed all day weekend course for programming that lead to me taking a jump into consulting and side projects i did during my time at northrup which doubled my income instantly based off the billing rate at that time. I totally agree training is so much more valuable than the pay raise. People work at great companies with low rates because their training programs and experience you get could be exception, for example accenture.
don’t take promotions as they are bad for your career. – If you think that promotion is what you want and will futher your career in what you want to do OR personal goals then go for it.. if it doesn't then why do it unless you care solely about the title.
skip the graduate degree and advanced education”. – Before I left the company one option was to stay and get a MBA paid for by the company or get out there on my own. My brother has MS and an MBA with a stable finance company with 30K bonuses.. but my total income has been consistently 50-80% greater than his depending on the year and quarter and continues to grow.. I'm not knocking on advanced degrees, im just saying I agree with PT that it's not necessary, you just have to see if it aligns with your goals and weigh opportunity costs. I myself want to go back for an MBA in the future because of other business and networking opportunities.
Now if I didn't follow advice like this, advice that involves personal growth, and logically analyzing the situation and seeing if it makes sense in regards to what I want in the future and not basing it on the status quo and on what the majority of the people out there say, then I would be a software engineering pulling in 75-85K will full benefits, vacation, year end shutdown (like many engineering companies, 401k and all that crap that sounds good but at the end, they're all just numbers… I would be working 9-6 or 7-3:30 and I would be doing FINE… But I looked at the directors and managers (like yourself) and saw their daily tasks, compared their salaries and benefits (similar to yours) and just decided it wasn't for me. It might be for YOU but to judge other people's career advice as invalid just because it doesn't follow yours doesn't make sense.
Yes I know you consider me young at my age. That's fine, i know i lack experience in many aspects of life, business and career, but thats the fun part of designing your own lifestyle and career paths. I make money and I have fun doing it.. some of the things I do aren't traditional, and im fine with it. The articles on this site aren't traditional as well. It's more of a way of thinking, part personal development, part financial and career. It might not have been a fit for yahoo finance but oh well…
Posted by ejohnson on 12/27/2007 at 07:46pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
It's one thing for Yahoo commenters to blast away at Penelope's articles. It's quite another to come over to her online home and kick her on her worst day. The latter violates basic human decency. Penelope, I wish you well.
Posted by Joe on 12/27/2007 at 07:51pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Jesse Cline,
I agree with you. But I am a gen Y'er that could be arrogant and could at time's have a sense of entitlement… I definitely do not know more than those older all the time, but also could in certain subject matters. I've had the same experience as you looking back and know i still will.. i don't see what your point is in that.
"Don’t assume you know more than an older person solely because you read career blogs. "
I think most people who read career blogs don't think they know more than other on the subjects they read.. and neither do I. Sorry you got that assumption from the comment. There are those know it alls that do that but i'm not one of them.
Posted by ejohnson on 12/27/2007 at 07:59pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
So glad to hear you've been unbridled from that baggage of a responsibility. I know that you've never been phased by the criticism from the brain trust commenters at Yahoo, but I think a lot of us that seriously contemplate these topics are tired of the surface level inflammatory reactions that do nothing to move an important conversation forward. To the extent that those idiots migrate to this forum, we are all worse off for it.
And isn't it likely that at SOME level, taking that kind of verbal abuse weekly has a negative impact? I'd be shocked if there isn't at least some adverse impact on your writing, relationships, or approach to public conversation from that abuse. I'm really looking forward to your insights about that experience a year from now after it's been purged from your subconscious.
Your confidence, pride, and ability to take criticism make you a hero of mine, but even still, I think this is outstanding news all-in-all.
Can't wait to watch the new company develop.
Best,
Brian
Posted by Brian Johnson on 12/27/2007 at 08:14pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
You'll be missed, but then again, I'm a blog subscriber.
Keep rockin' Penelope and God bless you and your family.
Posted by Steve on 12/27/2007 at 08:24pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I've enjoyed reading your column on Yahoo, and will continue reading you here. Good luck! :)
Posted by Zandria on 12/27/2007 at 08:38pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I'm sorry this has happened to you, even if I didn't agree with much of your career advice. This has got to be an especially difficult time, with your marital issues as well. I hope you and your husband pull through, and that you land back on your feet quickly. Sometimes, though, all hell has to come crashing down for you to change your focus, and get onto a new track. Good luck for the new year, and please keep writing.
Posted by MHentig on 12/27/2007 at 09:11pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
“You should write for Lifestyles. That is more women oriented.”
HOLY CRAP! How did you not start cracking up laughing when he said that?
At any rate, brighter days ahead PT. I have no doubt you will move on to bigger and better things.
Posted by HR Wench on 12/27/2007 at 09:54pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Yahoo is no longer a great company. You'll land on your feet and hopefully work for a company you can be really proud of. The morale at yahoo is horrible and their long term viability is very much in question.
Posted by stone on 12/27/2007 at 09:55pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
>>The first thought I had was: When is my contract up?
>> And then I realized: Oh. Now.
You might want to check that. They probably have to pay you a notice period, especially since they are not terminating the contract for non-fulfilment or misconduct.
Posted by Caitlin on 12/27/2007 at 10:36pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Congratulations! You made it to the front page of VALLEYWAG!
Here's your opportunity to start making calls. And you've got the perfect opening line, "Hi Senior Editor Person. You may have seen the article about me on the front page of Valleywag this week. I'd like to talk to you about working for your fine company."
Posted by Mark on 12/27/2007 at 10:45pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I enjoyed reading the column on Yahoo!Finance despite its partial irrelevance – I thought it helped stretch the personal finance sphere.
Posted by 2million on 12/27/2007 at 11:14pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Thanks for being so honest about this. I recently got fired and wanted to talk about it on my blog, but didn't because I didn't want potential employers to see it. And I'm not even leaving my blog address because I don't want anyone linking back to it and finding me out. I'm such a chicken! I read a book called "Fired" by Annabelle Gurwitch that is a compilation of stories from people who got fired that made me feel a lot better.
Posted by Erosia on 12/27/2007 at 11:33pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Penelope,
This is a very humble and sobering post. Wishing you nothing but the best in 2008.
- Laurie
Posted by Laurie Ruettimann on 12/27/2007 at 11:39pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Penelope,
I have never been a fond admirer of your writings – and rarely did we agree on anything.. but that being said, I had the opportunity to interview you and on a Personal Level, I will say that you are good people, and I have No Doubt that you will bounce back from this.
You and Yahoo were not a good mix, undoubtedly. They are more conservative, and you are, hmm, maybe we should say flambouant. You have an interesting writing style at best, and it is indeed very entertaining, as long as it is understood that your "advice" should be taken with a grain of salt, and really doesn't actually work in the employment workplace. No matter what Generation you are.
Okay, this isn't about slam Penelope, especially on your blog, but actually the opposite. You do have a strong, contrarian writing style, that is opposed by many, yes even including myself; yet, inspite of all that, you maintained your beliefs, and continued to stand your ground, being consistent and true to yourself. I DO Admire that and I Do believe that you Will attempt to be consistent through all this. To Which I say, even as one of your Greatest Naysayers – GOOD FOR YOU!!!
As John Wooden Best said with his definition of success -"I choose to define it as, peace of mind attained only through self-satisfaction in knowing you made the effort to do the best of which you are capable. And you're the only one that knows that, you know. Nobody else knows. You can fool others, but you can't fool yourself"
He goes on to mention Character and reputation "Your character is what you are, and you're the only one that truly knows that. Your reputation is what others perceive it to be, and they can be wrong. So which is the most important? What you really are. It doesn't make any difference what others might think. You'd like for them to think well of you, but it really doesn't make any difference. You'd just like for them to. But boy, it's very important what you think about yourself. That's probably the most important thing there is."
Penelope, I truly believe think you will come out of this smelling like a rose, landing Feet First.
So, continue to Stay true to yourself and stay constant in what you believe in, no matter what others like myself may think! and above all, thank goodness for Freedom of Expression, speech and ideas, and especially continue to give thanks not only to those who agree with You, but especially to those who didn't – they sure helped with your ratings! Smile
Best of Luck
Karen Mattonen
Posted by Karen M on 12/27/2007 at 11:42pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
PT –
It's not how we handle the successes in life but what we learn and how we adjust to the unfortunate things in life. So Yahoo!Finance doesn't want you any more – BIG DEAL! There's enough other people that do.
Just keep being you – that's all that matters!
Posted by Jerry on 12/27/2007 at 11:53pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I think you'll look back on your time at Yahoo and see that it served its purpose. I found your blog because your Yahoo column was linked on the Yahoo homepage one day. Since then, I've been a regular visitor to your blog. Apart from your postings on Yahoo, I never go to Yahoo Finance. I imagine I'm not alone in this.
Even if I don't always agree with you, I like your viewpoint and voice – thought-provoking and entertaining. I think that some people don't like what you say because they want career advice to confirm what they already know. (Maybe to let themselves believe they've done all they can, all they're "supposed to do.") But let's face it – there can only be so many career books that say almost exactly the same things.
Best of luck in '08.
Posted by Jeff on 12/28/2007 at 12:30am | permalink | Reply to this comment
I'm sorry Yahoo! terminated your contract. I enjoyed your columns.
What I couldn't stand was the outright misogyny of many of the commenters. I'm glad you'll be leaving them behind–hopefully they won't follow you to wherever you land next.
Posted by Leslie Madsen-Brooks on 12/28/2007 at 01:06am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Sorry to hear about this – I really feel your writing brings a fresh and necessary voice and I think Yahoo is going to be missing out. When I hit tough times I just keep saying to myself 'you are what you give' – keep writing, keep generating content and your value stays high.
Maybe this is a good opportunity to examine how much this site is worth to all of us – I for one read it all the time and wouldn't blink at the chance to throw in a couple bucks now and again.
Penelope, I'd invite you to set up a tip jar on this page for us to use on a voluntary basis. By no means a charity thing or a big money-maker, just a way for some of us to show our appreciation for the work you do, acknowledge the value we are getting, and help you defray some of your costs. Paypal's got a solution called 'donation buttons'. I'd love to be the first to kick in.
Posted by king spadina on 12/28/2007 at 02:52am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Tertius, For what it's worth, I missed Penelope's column that mentioned downward dog – or skimmed that part because it just made sense to me – but I have done the following in my work bathroom:
Full sun salutations, including downward dog
Partial pushups against the sink
Sat on the floor with my back against the wall
Laid on the floor with my legs up the wall
Jumped up and down to get the blood flowing
I worked in a tall building, so I couldn't, in five minutes, like walk around the building to refresh, so I used the bathroom. I wasn't particularly concerned about the cleanliness of the floor. The cleaning people mop it every night, and I'm of pretty sturdy stock when it comes to germs.
As for H/R, I've learned the hard way that H/R is there for the company first. If you have a problem, they will be sympathetic, and the next thing you know you're getting write-ups based on lies and laid off. Sure, you're "right", but I personally can't afford to take a company to court and I've got better things to do with my time. Plus, to get severance you have to sign a form that releases the company from all liability, and who can do without the severance? If I was sexually harassed, I would try to resolve with the harasser directly, and maybe I would ultimately go to H/R if I had to, but what I'd absolutely do is just find a new job as soon as possible and simply remove myself from the situation.
Women often find themselves in damned if you do / Damned if you don't situations, and the best solution is to go somewhere that's simply less damning.
Posted by lizriz on 12/28/2007 at 03:41am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Hi Penelope – I must say that I find this post tremendously inspirational. Your attitude is GREAT and I wish you the best of luck in 2008. It is quite obvious that you will be successful in whatever you choose.
Kind regards,
Mark
Posted by Mark on 12/28/2007 at 05:43am | permalink | Reply to this comment
I think you were just fine over at Yahoo. I cannot figure out why they were so mean to you! I'm the guy who called himself "lookatdatfineass." :)
Anyway, I think you did an excellent job at providing alternatives and possible choices in career decisions.
"Outside of the box" thinking is what you're great at. Too many times we get tunnel vision and don't consider other possibilities because "that's just the way you do things in the real world," and like you, I simply don't accept that to be the truth.
Keep up the good work and I'll be reading your articles as they keep coming to me.
Posted by John Feier on 12/28/2007 at 06:47am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Penelope,
I'm truly sorry that you were fired, if you are feeling badly about it. Which is likely inevitable given the way it happened, which is pretty low of them, to make you think it was a social meeting! Cowards.
But, I have to agree with a few others who said that 'things happen for a reason'. I really believe that is true…or you can at least make it true by staying positive and taking advantage of opportunities that will come your way.
The most obvious one to me, and one I'm surprised no one has mentioned, is for you to capitalize on this huge audience you've built, who will surely all come to your blog here if you continue.
Why don't you maximize your blog with ads? That's where the real money in blogging is, and as long as your content stays true, your audience won't mind.
Yahoo has been profiting off of your blog, now it's your turn. Here's a link to a blog on this topic that has great info to think about.
http://www.problogger.net/
I wish you all the best.
Pam
Posted by Pam Claughton on 12/28/2007 at 09:35am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Penelope –
Was it the Byrds, no it was Solomon writing in Ecclesiastes that there are seasons in life. You have entered a new season, just like a new year, it has potential for great success or dismal failure; and it will be your attitude, your mindset, your heart which will lead you to incredible heights.
The one thing about change is we feel like we lose control over what we previously 'thought' or assumed we had control over.
I appreciate your style and have confidence that you will land well. Even though the money is important, the ball is in your court and you will control it well.
Blessings to you and your family.
Michael
Posted by Michael on 12/28/2007 at 10:00am | permalink | Reply to this comment
one more thing –
You have had success, and you know why success is so dangerous? You never know which factors actually contributed to the success, so everything becomes a sacred cow. Over time, you refuse (subconsciously to not take away what has led to your success, for all you know, they're part of the reason you made it.
So, what is my point? The best time for innovation is when you're struggling… when you're down for the count. You've got nothing to lose. You can start throwing off the old and start with the new; and see which factors actually make a difference.
Posted by Michael on 12/28/2007 at 10:05am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Is it 2007? Almost 2008? Did that conversation really happen? Maybe you should write about sewing and cooking? Topics that are geared towards female readers? Amazing.
I know nothing can take away the shock and disappointment, but if anyone can land on his or her feet, it's you.
You deserve to work for a boss and a boss's boss who don't think it's 1950.
Posted by Shawn on 12/28/2007 at 11:13am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Your boss's boss's boss must have thought your really sucked.
Posted by J Pap on 12/28/2007 at 11:22am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Penelope, I'm sorry to hear about this. I understand CPM, but you are a pleasure to read. On the other hand, it can't be nice reading all of those idiotic comments over at Yahoo–I'm sure you won't miss that sort of negativity in your life! I'm glad that I found you over here and that you have this blog. You are a fearless writer, and I will continue to read what you have to say. Best of luck–not that you need something as mundane as luck. ;-)
Posted by Bloggrrl on 12/28/2007 at 12:02pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Have you considered setting up a donation button on your blog? Or monetizing your blog in some other form? Lots of people make money off of their blogs, and it's not a bad thing. With the traffic you get on this blog you could probably have a steady income. Good luck either way, I am very sorry to hear you lost your column.
Posted by Monica on 12/28/2007 at 12:04pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
One thing – you should really doing some comment moderation. Criticism is fine, but it appears as though the trolls are coming out of the woodwork here.
Reading through comments like Johnny really demonstrate why no blog should allow unmoderated comments. Just straight up mean, bullying behavior, that should not be tolerated by civilized people.
* * * * * *
Thanks. I deleted it. Believe me, the comments are very moderated. I get TONS of ridiculous comments that usually have some pornographic or mysongenist reference. I miss a lot of them, though. So thanks for pointing out Johnny. Both of them.
Penelope
Posted by Aaron Erickson on 12/28/2007 at 12:11pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Aaron,
Just my personal thought, and this is just me, but I don't believe in comment moderation for anything other than spam. The second you moderate trolls you are the one bullying. If my viewpoint can't stand against the viewpoints and criticism of others then it's I should change my viewpoint.
You talk about tolerance, and civilized people. Perhaps I am too much the philosopher, but what precisely does that mean? "mean, bullying behavior, that should not be tolerated by civilized people." Are you saying people should only be allowed to speak their mind if it's contributory? Who determines if it's contributory? The problem with free speech is that it actually has to be free or it becomes meaningless.
In perfect honesty, your comment is far more offensive to me than any comment on this post so far, and many of them actively attack people of generation who refuse to obey traditional corporate dogma. Your suggestion to moderate in the name of 'civilization' is backwards, authoritarian, and yet another example of the way our culture is so easily subverted, and free-thinking so easily squashed.
Penelope, you're on the right tack, better to have trolls than moderation (not to mention the amount of work it takes to moderate a comment thread.) Kudos!
Posted by theo on 12/28/2007 at 12:30pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
This isn't a forum for free speech. It is PT's blog. If you come to my house and start making defamatory insults, I would summarily remove you.
Free speech means that if you want to make defamatory comments towards me, you get to do so on your own dime – that is, your own blog, using your own resources.
Posted by Aaron Erickson on 12/28/2007 at 12:35pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I was always a bit amazed at the harshness of the comments at Yahoo Finance. It honestly made the site's readers look downright silly. The second to last post is a classic example, where people are criticizing you for advice such as "Be Nice" and "Get on a Team," which is about as tame, sound, and uncontroversial as advice gets.
You've got a unique perspective and, more importantly, an engaging written persona which is extremely valuable. I'm sure you'll do quite well at your next job. Best of luck!
Posted by Blue on 12/28/2007 at 12:50pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
My wife and I have been reading your stuff for years. Yahoo? That sounds like a pretty boring place to work these days. You should work with my company and do a live video blog and accept questions from the viewers. That would be fun.
Posted by Tom on 12/28/2007 at 12:52pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Penelope,
I am a fan, I bought your book, and it seems like the world is your oyster regardless of Yahoo. Find a good public relations person. We need to hear, see, and listen to more of what you have to say.
Posted by craigo on 12/28/2007 at 12:58pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Being self-employed is difficult and unstable at times, but it beats misogynistic supervisors hands down. "More Women Oriented"? That's just code word for "We're firing you because you have a vagina."
Suing them isn't worth it. Just move on and never trust them again.
Posted by Laura Moncur on 12/28/2007 at 01:14pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Penelope-
sorry about the Yahoo gig. Bummer. But you have passion, and people with passion always rise to the top. Like other things in your past, you will look back at this and see it as a good thing once you get past it.
I have spent December looking for "passion" in people I encounter. I dedicated all my blog posts in December to "The Celebrate Passion Project"…and you know what I learned. People with a real spark inside them to do great things are RARE…..
That is why I know you will do just fine. You are spunky.
thom
Posted by thom singer on 12/28/2007 at 01:15pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
"Here’s what my boss’s boss’s boss said: 'You should write for Lifestyles. That is more women oriented.'"
It's no wonder they're on their way out -
Yahoo WHO? That's what I say, LOL!! Thanks for the honesty of your post, Penelope.
Posted by sarahd on 12/28/2007 at 01:20pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Congrats on a chance at another new beginning. I'll be watching to see what is next.
Posted by planetheidi on 12/28/2007 at 02:00pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I never wish ill will on anyone so I won't make comments stating, "yippee, you deserved it." I do think the decision to end the column's run was a wise one. The advice given was not practical career advice. It was more theoretical advice for Gen Y'ers if we lived in a perfect world where the "me, me, me" attitude ruled the workplace. People go to columns in Yahoo Finance for professional advice and this column never was. It really read more like a recent college grad's idea of what the professional world should be like.
While I don't agree with name calling, the rest of the negative comments on Yahoo did have very good points on why the various column entries were not up to snuff. Your regular bloggers do not seem to have a real sense of reality as they praise each and every blog entry as being poetic or close to Shakespeare. It is almost like a cult following. You could repeat the same line over and over and it would still be reviewed positively by them. One comment from a reader on this article said they couldn't believe someone would come to your personal blog and attack you. I don't think they realize that you boastfully advertise your blog with your "professional" columns. That in itself is a very bad mistake. Why would your try to represent yourself as a profesional guru and then link to your personal website where you badmouth your husband, talk about guys flirting with you at the airport, discuss extramarital affairs, etc. That is about as unprofessional as it gets and why any business would want that from their columnist is beyond me.
I dislike work as much as any other person, but I do know what you can and cannot do if you want to succeed. I really think you should reorganize your writings and put a disclaimer out there to reflect them as non-professional advice. I have not read one column/article that sounded like it came from a business person. They really do read like someone who is writing what the business world should be like instead of what it really is like. People seeking career advice want to know in detail about how to write a resume, how to prepare for interviews, etc. None of the columns have given real advice like that.
I wish you the best by all means, but I do hope you take this as a learning experience and focus on something other than trying to give professional advice for the business world. Just because I watch sports on television doesn't make me an expert enough to give advice to rising sports stars on how to better than professional career.
Posted by Phil on 12/28/2007 at 02:02pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I have never been interested in Yahoo! I am not an active careerist but read your blog because it gives me something to think about along with the comments. You write well and I appreciate the opportunity to know more about you. Good luck on everything.
Posted by David Miner on 12/28/2007 at 02:10pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Even though I don't agree with all your advice, I've been a regular reader of your blog. I had always felt that your column wasn't the best fit for Yahoo "finance", so this is probably for the good. All the best for 2008!
Posted by Sujatha on 12/28/2007 at 02:51pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Hi, Penelope — sorry to hear it — but you'll land on your feet — probably wearing golden slippers! I'm looking forward to having the opportunity to create great things for both of us in 2008 – you are the best — and Yahoo readers will MISS you! Cheers!
Posted by Elaine Basham on 12/28/2007 at 03:05pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
This may seem a small consolation, but you've won a Rockin Girl Blogger award, curtesy of moi. I've just discovered your writing, your blog, and love everything I've read so far. Looking forward to reading more.
Posted by Amy on 12/28/2007 at 03:06pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
ps (I meant to say, follow the link from my name for details)
Posted by Amy on 12/28/2007 at 03:07pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Penelope –
I'm sorry this happened to you, but am sure you'll land on your feet. Contrary to your self assessment, you've clearly been willing to take risks in your work life in order to have the family life you want. Although I don't always agree with your advice, you always make me think. Coincidentally, I blogged today about career management lessons learned during my 30 years in the workplace – http://www.workforceinstitute.org/2008-career-advice-my-top-ten.htm. Maybe there's something in here that will ring true for you.
Posted by Joyce Maroney on 12/28/2007 at 03:41pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Congratulations!
May your next career be even more brazen. :)
You've probably thought of this already, but what about putting ads on your personal blog? Steve Pavlina made a nice profit for himself from this, and you're a much better writer!
Posted by Duff on 12/28/2007 at 03:45pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Very sorry to hear about your departure from Yahoo! Let us know if you'd like us to pass the basket around here for support a la "It's a Wonderful Life". Because I know you've helped me, and many others, through your work, and I'd contribute. :)
Posted by Margaret W on 12/28/2007 at 04:17pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I am sorry to hear of the economic impact of Yahoo's decision. However, there is an aspect of your post that I find troubling.
First, you chose to share your side of the termination meeting in a way that I found unflattering for the Yahoo executives. Was this strategy a good one or simply a reactive and shortsighted way of venting to some degree? After all, Yahoo did provide you with an incredible opportunity and by all appearances seemed open to perhaps continuing to do so in the future.
Second, your post (and a huge number of comments) suggest that the reference to Lifestyles was or should be viewed as sexist or degrading. Did you view it as sexist or degrading? If so, could you be mistaken? It seems to me that you asked and perhaps may have been given a candid/accurate and well intentioned response. Having read many of your articles, I don't find the observation that your subject matter and manner of presentation speaks to women more than men completely unfair.
Posted by Robert on 12/28/2007 at 04:18pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
PT — Thanks for being brave enough to be transparent. That's what the Internet is all about. That takes real courage.
Posted by Juliette on 12/28/2007 at 04:20pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I read your article on "Four Ways to Sidestep Corporate Hierarchy." and you had me hooked.
Don't be bothered by all those comments who have nothing but negativity and offer no alternatives or real advice.
My first real job out of college, my Boss told me that I need to be promoted every 2 years because once you hit a certain age, you hit a plateau. He told me to either move up, or move out. He was right. I was in a job with no career path. I left there after 3 years. When I told him I was leaving, he was proud. he told me there was no where for me to go there. I was the only person in that position.
In June of 9-11, I was caught up in the IT recession and got let go. I was already out of work before 9-11 happened causing 1 million more people to be on the job hunt. I learned to never ever stop networking, and to always have a plan-b. I am also working on a side business to have some residual income coming in.
You have a plan-b with this blog and your book. This blog also helps with your networking.
You are number one, and it is up to you to drive your career. Never rely on anyone else. Those who criticize you for that article will be the job seekers going to networking events only when they are out of work.
If you want to succeed, you have to "Connect-the-dots" Those who can't will languish in corporate purgatory forever.
I have now bookmarked this site.
Posted by Jim on 12/28/2007 at 04:21pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
PT,
Sorry to hear about the Yahoo thing. Even though your bias against Baby Boomers flawed your advice, I enjoyed reading your suggestions. I believe you are right on about networking and technology and somewhat tilted about the value of hard work. Why do you call entry level work, "bullshit"? It seems you are pandering to those upstarts (Millenials). Remember Smith-Barney, "make 'em earn it". Graduation from college is a new beginning (begining = entry level). As most Millenials will tell you, the subjects in college don't apply to real life anyway or "when am I ever going to use this stuff"? I truly believe that they (Millenails) will end up a lot like the Boomers, that is, forced to settle into corporate America due to marriage, children, mortgages, expenses. etc. Kinda like giving up pot. Only for them, they won't have time to reach for personal technology toys because they will be too busy paying bills. I'll keep an eye out for you on the Information Highway (oops-that sounds too Gen X) :-)
Posted by Ernie on 12/28/2007 at 04:26pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Oh PT,
I almost forgot (please respond). Who is this Adriene _________? Is it true she is you. If so, I'd really like to meet you.
Posted by Ernie on 12/28/2007 at 04:29pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I love this blogging thing. Blogging about getting fired on the day you get fired? Its awesome! And you have "big balls" too for doing it. I also like hearing that you have gotten fired a lot. Me too! Way to go girl. Keep up the ballsy attitude.
Posted by Jo on 12/28/2007 at 05:32pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Maybe you will consider writing comedy instead. Serious!! I enjoyed reading your columns as did many people did, I disagreed with 90% of your advice and would never employ any of your career strategies. However, I did find much humor in reading them. I especially enjoyed the thousands of right-on-target messages Yahoo! users left, which was more useful and very enlightening in my career.
Honestly, you need to understand this; Your career advice was awful, and you should not have been giving out harmful advice.
Posted by Frederick on 12/28/2007 at 05:33pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
In the great words of the Godfather of HipHop, Russell Simmons – "Just Do You"
I really enjoy reading your blog and look forward to what Ms. Penelope has to say each week.
Go to your Destiny.
Jen
Posted by Jen on 12/28/2007 at 05:41pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Penelope,
For what it's worth, I hope — and have faith that — this will someday work much to your advantage, and the reason is this: That Yahoo! column wasn't the best showcase of your talents as a *writer*. The advice was well and good, but anyone who reads your blog (and appreciates the quality of the writing in it) knows that writing for the Lowest Common Denominator that is the Yahoo reader isn't the highest and best use of your talents. Time to keep spreading those wings, huh?
Posted by James on 12/28/2007 at 05:44pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Penelope –
It sucks to get fired. But perhaps you should have been asking for feedback directly from the bigwigs all along? (And isn't THIS the sort of advice you should be giving those who are interested in a career, and not to do yoga in the bathroom?)
I'm not one of the blog trolls, but I do have to weigh in and say while I find your blog amusing, your Yahoo articles were more blog posts and less useful researched career strategies.
I am also a little bit curious how you convince people to take your career advice when your own is rather slapdash – wanting to be home with your kid sis wonderful, and I admire you for pulling it off. But it may also mean that the sense of the word 'career' you have is not necessarily the same as those of us in the full time working world do.
Best of luck in finding someplace new.
Posted by Colleen on 12/28/2007 at 07:04pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Sad and funny
Perhaps you should have offered to add a little more finance to your column like the other writers that yahoo finance employs. Like 'spend less, save more' and other cutting edge advice that they are constantly giving.
What I find most interesting about your situation is the attitude of your boss. Isn't Yahoo! supposed to be part of the internet revolution? Aren't they supposed to be beyond the old boys club trappings of normal big companies? Like the rest of the readers, I am apalled that someone who leads people (your boss, or boss' boss) can't articulate himself beyond "well sweetie, perhaps you should focus women's issues". I am guessing you left out the part where he slapped you on the ass and told you to try wearing lower necklines.
I look forward to the new news from Penelope…PY (Post Yahoo!).
Posted by Rich on 12/28/2007 at 09:04pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Seems to me this is another fluff filled version of "I got fired, wasn't my fault, woe to me" diatribe.
Can't asy I'm surprised. Your yahoo articles were terrible.
Posted by Sam on 12/28/2007 at 10:08pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Penelope, maybe you should consider that all the reasons for being fired are just the story they told you. In '95 it wasn't customary to fire people for using computers for personal purposes — *unless they wanted to get rid of someone*. I mean, if employers find you ditzy, obnoxious, irrelevant or just someone they feel uncomfortable being associated with, are they really going to tell you that? Or, will they fabricate a plausible reason?
You're the only person I know who actually believes the stated reasons, rather than looking past them for opportunities to improve in the real areas that matter.
Posted by Mark on 12/28/2007 at 10:24pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I debated about writing this, but your topic is compelling me to.
Greatness is not often defined by the unseen. We like it right in front of our noses. Truth be told, it never is seen…until it manifests in a way that moves us to something we couldn't grasp on our own. You can reference MLK, Jr., Churchill or a dear friend here. Another beautiful way God works (excuse me for the spiritual here).
Penelope, greatness flows through you, and you may not know it. It can be very difficult to understand when you're dealing with a loss. All the noise (people, corporations, our own baggage) tries to drown out what just keeps flowing…flowing to the other 173 people who've already commented on your post today.
Posted by Eric Pennington on 12/28/2007 at 10:49pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
You got yourself fired? How unfortunate, as I just started reading your column a week ago and even bought your book. Being a 54 year old baby boomer I did not agree with much of your columns but felt I needed to read it to gain a better understanding of how young people think in the workplace.
Best wishes for your future.
Posted by Sharky on 12/28/2007 at 11:45pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Hey Girl,
Congratulations! Just when I'm ready to give up and quit on my vision for the career and lifestyle I desire for my family, you go and give me hope. Why can't people do things they truly love, have a flexible schedule and make a buck too damn it? My wife and I just today were discussing, "what do you want to do Blake"? I want a job I can work from home, get paid and be there with my kids when they grow up.
I spent the first 15 years on the road with my corporate gig and my 19 year old could have used me being around. I want this time to be different, my now 5 year old deserves to have her daddy there when she loses her first tooth, etc.
Hey, you should thank Yahoo and screw them at the same time. I know first hand what you mean about the where is my money coming from next story, but you will do fine, you are well up and running now, I would think.
Thank you, you and I don't always agree, but you have been consistently approachable, quick with your honesty and a kind word, and now I have to say inspirational too.
Press on regardless,
Blake
Posted by Blake Thomas on 12/29/2007 at 12:36am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Penelope, just wanted to say I think you are being eminently true to yourself and brazenly honest about your financial position vis a vi negotiating – that is what makes you remarkable and what will keep you whole — in the end there is no risk in being who you are — I think.
You may not remember me but I got fired 3/7/07 from a good but for me dead end job selling packaging — it was people like you who helped me take the plunge and now my Buttons of Hope business is starting to take off. Now that I am through the startup phase I am getting back to blogging and nurturing my on line friends — I know you have been through a lot and I think you read Seth's blog — make sure you read 12/27 — I think it's all about Having a chance at greatness — sounds to me like you still got that!
Wishing you a Happy and Peaceful new Year
makehope
michael gibbons
Posted by michael gibbons on 12/29/2007 at 11:05am | permalink | Reply to this comment
How do you deal with being fired from Yahoo? You shout it from the rooftops, tell everyone you know, blog about it — and discover that everyone who respects your work, admires your brazen-ness, heeds your advice and loves your spirit will be right here with you! The support, encouragement, affection and appreciation that I've read here in the last couple of days is absolutely amazing and inspiring. You obviously have touched many lives in very positive ways, Penelope — and I know will continue to do so. I'm so glad that I've had the opportunity to get to know you and look forward to a long and successful connection! Cheers!!!!! Elaine
Posted by Elaine Basham on 12/29/2007 at 11:49am | permalink | Reply to this comment
I maintain my opinion when I first found your blog after reading you on Yahoo! Finance. You're a much better blogger and advice columns, especially career advice is not for you. I mean think about it. You're supposed to be edgy, revolutionary, renegade career woman, right? But you're trying to sell your wares on a conventional career and finance site, where the popular articles are about retirement, budgets, investing, etc. You've got to find a venue that fits. You've got to find your audience. Forbes is also a horrible idea. You need to find an edgy, web site or publication or CREATE one.
I honestly agree with very little of your "advice" given on Yahoo!, partly b/c I'm young and have more traditional values/work ethic that have served the same end you preach (I'm a freelance writer and have a part-time job writing w/ telecommuting, good salary and benefits). Your columns were downright offensive to ppl like me b/c you declared us out-of-date, ignorant of the change around us and even being used "by the system." I think your detractors on Yahoo just couldn't believe you had no respect for the traditional working model that made this country great, wanted to throw it in the trash and suggest your way was the only way. I think today's workplace is just showing us other ways, that work too, but don't mean the traditional work ethic is useless.
Your skill is here where you put your life on display for the world to see. I'd never do it, but you do, you have amazing audience draw and loyalty b/c of your frankness. You are like the Internet version of the Truman Show (Jim Carey movie). Now, that SELLS.
Posted by Dara on 12/29/2007 at 02:04pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I just look forward to the new website, where career advice will be given by you and two guys who just graduated college last year. That should be a hoot!
If you enjoy writing, then definitely write. Just don't write about something you really do not have the experience to back, i.e. career advice. There are too many impressionable younger kids who think this is real advice and will be either fired for following said "advice" or will not get hired for following it.
I think it was a very bad move to air your dirty laundry with Yahoo, especially since you are practically acusing them of sexism. We were not in that room with them, so we are only getting your abridged version and you tend to have dramatic license with what you write. It is going to be harder and harder to find places that will risk publishing your columns when they know that if something goes wrong, there is no telling what you will say on your blog, which is linked to everything you do online. I really think linking your online columns to your blog site where you badmouth your husband and failing marriage, gloat about being hit on often, discuss your desire for extramarital affairs while on the road, etc. is not a very smart move professional wise. Your private life should not be associated with your work if you expect it not to conflict. Again, I wish you the best of luck in your endeavors, just don't give out career advice. Stick to a subject that better suits you.
Posted by Phil on 12/29/2007 at 02:57pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
How fortunate that Penelope has so many people handy to tell her exactly how she screwed up, and offering their unsolicited advice to find another line of work. Yes, having a blog means being open to all kinds of feedback. It's just a shame that empathy is in such short supply these days.
Posted by Joe on 12/29/2007 at 04:01pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I think it can be, as Dara said, hard to hear that what you think works for you is something to be "thrown in the trash." But I don't think the old ways are working quite as well as someone who has had a littlle success in the older model thinks. I mean, sure you work hard and hide your feelings and do everything you're told. But you're going to be dumped. Sooner or later. Whether you show up a half-hour before the boss or not. And it may seem like following this rigid set of guidelines will protect you. But it won't.
That's scary and hard to handle. When I realized what was happening to all my workplace heroes – seriously, one place even did an Office Space-like "Please move your office, now move it again…" to someone who had a great reputation and a client-base to die for, but who was also pretty high up on the salaray scale and could be replaced with a younger person for cheaper, Anyway, when I realized that their work ethic wouldn't save the older workers. I was pretty scared too. But I had time to adjust. They didn't. And that's really hard. I dont' blame them for freaking out. I would.
So I think that maybe some people see their biggest fears sprawled out on this website, and they want to punish Penelope for it. Because if the messenger is right, then they are in danger. And they'd rather shoot the messenger than figure out another way to do things. But abusing Penelope isn't going to change anything. And I think that's why people get so oddly emotional on here. I mean, if you're right about her being wrong, then why yell so loudly about it? Why get so upset? It seems almost a moot point. But people are REALLY mad. And I think it's because they're afraid. And they want to hurt her because they don't know what else to do. It's too bad for everyone.
PS – I also think a lot of people feel more comfortable abusing her because she's a woman. You wouldn't address a guy you think is wrong the way some people talk to her on here. The anger is just incredible sometimes.
Posted by Liz on 12/29/2007 at 04:51pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
1. This guy waylaid you. You arranged a friendly meeting and without any warning at all he used it to spring a major surprise. Scumbag is the word that comes to mind for me but my impression is that he was just being businesslike and clueless about personal relations.
2. How much do they pay in the Ladies Section? It might sound demeaning but I hear that Oprah and Martha Stewart manage to make it work for them.
3. Regarding Silver Linings, I think Dan Scwhabel had a good point above. It might have ended abruptly but it I'm sure it raised your profile and looks on your resume.
Posted by Recruiting Animal on 12/29/2007 at 07:38pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Resume??? PT has like 5 names. Which one is on her resume? I'm going to miss her on yahoo since she made my thursdays so bearable. I hear "Star" has an opening.
Posted by Johnny on 12/29/2007 at 07:43pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Your commitment to freelancing so that you can spend time with your kids is noble. I hope the HotJobs "gig" works out for you.
Posted by Stephanie on 12/29/2007 at 08:53pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I think its courageous of you to blog about your much personal experiences. I didn´t wait to get fired, I left as soon as I sensed the fuse being lit. I also got advice from within that the road ahead looked bleak, and if I bolted, no one could blame me for looking out for myself.
Seriously, Yahoo is just one messed up company right now. I knew this at the time I was hired and I could see the company was on a huge hiring and spending spree. There just didn´t seem to be any solid strategy behind it all. Blame Semel and his crew, because they helped tank the ship that was riding on rising water, and it was a ship that couldn´t tread water on its own.
My experience was watching my boss try really hard to find things I did wrong and give me bad feedback at every chance he got. He acted like he was personally against me, or clearly biased and not taking feedback others gave about me. Whatever it was, it was degrading, demoralizing, chronically depressing. Who wants to work everyday where the boss thinks nothing of your contributions, especially now since the management now wants employee performance tied to CPM? Yahoo appears to want to become a factory churning out high hit rates on each and every portion of its site. You´re better off.
Posted by Gnome on 12/29/2007 at 11:27pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I always thought Yahoo was totally secondary to your blog, a weird fit and kind of a cashy-sideline until your start-up took off. You got what you needed from them and now it's time to move on. You are a rock star.
Posted by Hutchie on 12/30/2007 at 01:03am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Hey Penelope
I think this is your best blog yet. Why I read your blog is because you truly speak from your heart and it SHOWS especially in this blog. We can never please everyone. If I can please everyone, I would've been married with kids already probably with someone I don't love and been a doctor, a lawyer AND a man. (Yes, my father really wanted sons. He never had one and all his brothers have nothing but sons.).
You are a great writer. I read your blog before you were on Yahoo, and I certainly will read your blog now that you don't write for it. And many of your subscribers is a living proof of that that you will be fine and well ;)
Happy new year and looking forward to many more fabulous blogs,
Cindy
Posted by cindy*staged4more on 12/30/2007 at 01:14am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Sorry to hear about you getting the sack.
Hope that 2008 works out better than 2007.
Posted by Mike Hobart on 12/30/2007 at 06:04am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Pen,
Ever onsider listening to the majority of your Yahoo! audience? While I have never been fired, it seems to me this has happened to you an inordinate number of times. Just a thought.
Dr. Doom
Posted by PandoCommando on 12/30/2007 at 10:12am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Comments on this particular post — everyone weighing in on your column being cancelled — are a nice way for readers to assess what you do for them personally, with many quite insightful and incisive, positive or not.
I like your distinctive voice and perspective, as original on this topic as any I know. I don't always agree but that isn't your value to me; rather, you make me rethink things from unexpected places. And while my world is not the private corporate one (though the similarities are often uncanny), your broader view on work relationships/standards/protocols is both quite useful and refreshing.
I'm sure you will always land on your feet as you are smart, enjoy what you do, work hard, are (sensibly) assertive, approach your life analytically, and do take (sensible) risks, whether you realize that or not.
Posted by r crane, UCLA on 12/30/2007 at 01:06pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
From one freelance writer to another, don't forget we have to look at problems in a creative light. Getting fired from one of the world's top corporations is actually a good problem to have, as far as problems go (and we all have them — there is just no avoiding that fact of life). So you got pushed off the top; you didn't hit bottom, you just landed on a lower mountain. Remember this Buddist proverb: If you are facing in the right direction, all you need to do is keep walking.
I understand what you are saying about not classifying yourself as a risk-taker. You maybe are seeing yourself as a person who just puts one foot in front of the other.
So keep doing it.
Posted by Katrina on 12/30/2007 at 02:43pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Here is a very interesting article about all of Penelope's accomplishments that I really enjoyed reading:
http://jgrab1.wordpress.com/
Enjoy!
* * ** * * *
I admit to having deleted this URL three times in this comment string. The link is to a post aobut how much the blogger hates me. It's actually not so much a post as a treatise. But anyway, today I read the comments at the post, and it's hard to keep deleting this URL when there is acually an engaged discussion going on (about how lame I am). So, I'm leaving the URL here.
Penelope
Posted by Bill on 12/30/2007 at 03:11pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Dear Penelope,
May the year of 2007 bring you even greater successes and may the foolhardiness of Yahoo open the door to bigger and better things for you.
As a QA manager my bosses have often asked me to show statistics on whose code causes the most bugs and which tester submits the most bugs and I am always wary of how these stats are used because they invariably paint a misleading picture.
Be strong and good luck with your startup.
Jonathan
Posted by Jonny on 12/30/2007 at 04:25pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Good luck on finding another writing job. You will do fine I'm sure…
Posted by Terry on 12/31/2007 at 12:03am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Is it possible the reason yahoo gave was just a way to let you down easy? It just doesn't have the feel for the actual reason.
Posted by Bill on 12/31/2007 at 09:37am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Penelope,
Sorry to hear about the firing.
While I usually did not agree with your columns, especially your generalizational categorizations, I can see you are a tenacious person. And I like to concentrate on bridge building rather than creating gaps.
Wish you well getting things going, and hopefully this will be an opportunity for you.
If you ever are in Indy – lets grab lunch (on me).
Don (A "younger" Baby Boomer)
Posted by Don R. on 12/31/2007 at 12:20pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Really, isn't it best to lead by example? Yes you had to explain your firing, but some things should be kept confidential. Would anyone want to take a chance at hiring an employee that will discuss internal matters with the world, and risk giving the company a bad reputation? Exits should always be graceful and quiet. Don't give your employer a reason to dislike you when you leave. I think your example is not sending the right message to your loyal readers.
Posted by bill on 12/31/2007 at 01:03pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Concerning that ULR … I read his entry and you cannot possibly take his opinion seriously. Not from someone who uses research as a filler and writing resume peek is Amazon.com book reviews. He advertises the fact he will cheerfully delete any negative comments on his blog; he can dish it out but cannot take it and that's beyond your worry or comprehension.
Posted by Katrina on 12/31/2007 at 01:21pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Having been fired from Yahoo! a number of years ago I can tell you that it has done nothing but good things for my career. Yahoo was the 2nd career stop for me and I've since moved on in a completely different, more challenging and enjoyable direction…and am getting ready to move in yet another direction still. I always figured it was their loss.
By the way, had you not been fired I would have never read about this on Valleywag and checked out your blog, which I am quite enjoying. So, thanks for getting canned!
Posted by WM on 12/31/2007 at 04:56pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Happy New year Penelope!
I read this post but honestly couldn't figure out how career isn't that important in relation to finance for yahoo! I think career is an essential part of finance in most of our lives and so I'm still wondering about it but meanwhile I just wanted to drop a new year wish for you.
I think you are honest and you are living upto your own words, not saying something to others and doing something for yourself. It does feel talking the truth itself is a big risk in life sometimes but then it is the most wonderful thing that deserves appreciation. You talking of your personal life and being fired etc are all just good lessons for so many who are reading your blog. From what I know you are being very kind and nice Penelope. I hope things are already working out for better for you! I never followed up any other yahoo article as I have followed yours! I truly enjoyed reading your article.
Posted by shoba on 01/01/2008 at 11:53am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Good luck. While I don't agree with lots of your advice, I find it encourages me to think on the subject. Besides, your GenY observations have been very helpful for me in doing interviews with such people.
Yahoo has not been doing well financially, so part of the reason need not be personal.
Posted by Anirban on 01/02/2008 at 03:55am | permalink | Reply to this comment
I was once told by a career military officer during a challenging time at work, "If you're not taking flak, then you're not over the target!"
Learning, growth and most important, innovation, don't require agreement, but they do require alternate and diverse perspectives — sometimes even conflicting perspectives. I like this column (I never read the column or anything else on Yahoo!) because it's different and outside of my experience. If it said what I already know, it wouldn't be very interesting. I like the transparency, because there is a downside and an ugly side (like the impact on one's personal life for certain career decisions).
I was challenged, for example, by the posting that all you need to live each year is $40,000. Ouch! But the point, like many others, is to see an alternate view and then to consider your own situation in that light. Might not be the right answer, but the thinking about the contrast can help you — has helped me — consider alternatives.
Finally, if there's one thing I've learned this year, it's that virtually nothing in human life is binary. Rarely does any situation lend itself to right and wrong, good and bad in totality. All actions have consequence and reverberations. We impact everyone we talk to and everyone we touch. Honesty in those transactions, apparently at the cost of a great deal of criticism, is the best we can do. Honesty is the hallmark of this column, and quite frankly, is what appeals to me.
(What's flak? See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flak_%28disambiguation%29)
Posted by Arnold Carson on 01/02/2008 at 02:22pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Penelope,
I wish I could say, 'sorry to hear that', but I can't.
Yahoo fired you for simplicity reasons but there's a difference between being simple and being simple-minded. They could have stopped counting you among the financial content and put you in a different category where you brought up the eCPM but it doesn't matter. Their loss.
One insight that keeps coming back to me is how people get ahead much quicker when they change companies, as opposed to staying in hopes of advancement.
Every time I've left a company – quit or laid off – my next job was always much better. It's a wonder that I don't quit sooner.
Now I do my own thing.
Now is the chance for you too to take the bull by the horns and go beyond what you were accomplishing for Yahoo, but doing it *all for yourself/family/etc*.
Your loyal Yahoo readers will miss you and find you quickly enough.
Take your blog and your writing to a new level.
Keep your lifestyle. You'll soon be able to pay for it again so why suffer in the meantime? That will only make it harder to do.
Posted by Jacob Share on 01/02/2008 at 02:37pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
if not from curt rusell.. i won't be aware of this..
sorry to hear your story.. anyway, life does not end there.. good luck to your next undertaking..
Posted by rodel on 01/02/2008 at 11:40pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I'm sorry to hear that anyone would think that your knowledge could be based on your sex. I get very angry when anyone hints that any way I feel or think is only because I am a woman. I am aware of what I am, but the sex of someone does not determine their mind or their knowledge! Otherwise all men would only care about only 3 things: football, beer and junk food.
I wish you the best on your next "adventure" in life.
Posted by Angel on 01/03/2008 at 12:18am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Good luck, Penelope.
I never posted a comment on Yahoo, but I'll be honest.
Your first column was very good. It had real potential.
After awhile, you just ran out of things to say. I would have cancelled the column myself.
But, it's not because you are a bad columnist. It's because that column was a bad fit for you.
Your blog is wonderful. I read it and I enjoy it. I asked myself why can't Penelope's column be that good?
Do you know what makes your blog so interesting? Your life story is anything but typical. You write about things that happen to you and what you learned from them. What you get to the more abstract, it just isn't as compelling. When you make it personal, it's really very good.
I wish you luck on your next column….I know they'll be one.
Posted by Mark Bennett on 01/03/2008 at 12:41am | permalink | Reply to this comment
I think you should read your post from 2003. Your doing fine.
http://www.bankrate.com/brm/news/career/20030908a1.asp?prodtype=advice
Posted by kc on 01/03/2008 at 12:46am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Hmm. I wonder why the boss's boss felt your writing was more suited to women. The comment seems to suggest your audience was primarily women when it might be the opposite. I will really miss reading you on Yahoo. You are the only author there I read. I confess I did it the first time because I liked your picture. How is that for shallow. Find another gig and let us know on this site. Is there an easy and direct way for me to let yahoo know my disappointment?
Posted by Don B. on 01/03/2008 at 08:50am | permalink | Reply to this comment
I know getting fired is difficult. Living in a state that is a "Right to work" state, I know that employers don't need any reason to let you go. Having heard many stories like this, I would suggest you create a "Blitz" team that will support you and your efforts. Many times your team consists of people inside and outside your company. They can help you manage the perception that managers above you, who don't know you, may have. There's nothing more frustrated than being fired by someone who never knew you (they were only responding to the recommendation of a lower level manager who didn't have the authority to fire you).
Blitz them, I say.
Posted by Todd Rhoad on 01/03/2008 at 11:07am | permalink | Reply to this comment
It wasn't the place for you.
Posted by Steven on 01/03/2008 at 01:28pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Rock on Penelope! I respect and appreciate your honesty and dedication to "keeping it real" – even when stuff I read makes me uncomfortable – I'm always glad for the perspective. Your writing pretty consistently transcends career and bleeds into life and all that goes with it (as it should) – positioning yourself/ your writing as just "you" (brand Penelope Trunk) and your take on work, life, marriage, kids, shoes whatever.. will allow for the freedom to have un-adultrated, rich content without having to find a slant/put it in a "bucket" or category. I enjoy your perspective – both helpful and provocative and will enjoy tuning in to brand Penelope :)!
Posted by Ayesha on 01/03/2008 at 03:15pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
That was brave and eloquent. I have my disagreements with you (mostly internal — I don't want to burden you with all of them!) but I will say you have handled this like a true pro and an incredibly decent human being.
You'll be fine. I, for one, am very interested in what you do next.
Posted by Suze on 01/03/2008 at 04:39pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
It's Yahoo's loss. Your own blog is great and is easier for readers to navigate than Yahoo's overcrowded, poorly designed site.
Posted by leslie on 01/03/2008 at 05:22pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Today was my day in the sun.
5+ years came down to 5 minutes of regret and excuses. As I told my wife tonight when I had the miserable task of telling her the news: for the 1st time in a very long time I feel confident and I will rise above this event.
Thanks,
Posted by Joe on 01/04/2008 at 12:30am | permalink | Reply to this comment
I think Yahoo lost the best worker they have ever had. I am sorry for them, not for you, Penelope. You are smart and bright, and it will not be difficult to find anything better. Did you try at Google ? :)
Good luck!
Posted by luca on 01/04/2008 at 12:33pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
When I saw your comment on my blog, I backed up on your blog to read more. Just saw this. I was overseas when this happened.
I'm going to give you a compliment that most people won't think is a compliment, but trust me, it is. You could do worse than being the Howard Stern of career bloggers.
I'm referring to your last bit: "But more important than preserving an edge negotiating money is somehow documenting how hard it is to be true to yourself, how hard it is to be at risk all the time. It’s a tradeoff. Sometimes my life looks glamorous. Sometimes it doesn’t. It’s all the same life though."
Keep it real, all the time. Every time you think you should hold back about the personal, don't. That's why I read you. That's why I read Dooce. That's why Howard is worth half a billion.
Share what's really going on. People learn, and they learn to love. It can't fail.
Posted by Brian on 01/05/2008 at 09:45pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Your whole decription about 9 to 5 gigs sums up how I feel about my current job. I think another job might make me feel better but I'm not for sure how.
This year I'm really thinking about taking risks and just leaving to find something more enjoyable and something that pertains to my Finance degree, but like you said and: the Internship is not an option its practically brainless time.
In the mean time keep writing and we'll keep reading Good Luck!!
Posted by CB on 01/08/2008 at 02:20am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Yea Yahoo! site is overcrowed anyway. It needs a remodel.
I think the real reason they let you go is because good writing costs more than the other B.S. they put on the site.
Keep up the good writing!!
Posted by CB on 01/08/2008 at 02:25am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Penelope,
I know this is late but I'm truly sorry to hear your column has been cancelled. I know you are going to move on to bigger and better things.
Posted by Monica on 01/08/2008 at 04:14am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Thank you so much for your honesty in this column.
Posted by Sarah Rottenberg on 01/08/2008 at 12:27pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Your career advice has always been terrible and usually wrong, so I'm not surprised that you have been fired. Also, since you have been fired so many times in the past, it seems obvious that you don't have any ability to have a career!!
Still I hope that you find something that works for you and your family — just don't give career advice!
Posted by Anita on 01/09/2008 at 03:19pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
come on – do you censor your comments here. The majority are sickenly positive (which doesn't reflect reality)
Posted by yomama on 01/10/2008 at 01:42pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Some of your posts really hit home when they are genuine and show you are a regular person like anyone of us. And this shows that even when it looks like you have everything, you have problems also. You are a very genuine person and you are truthful with the good and the bad. Great post.
Posted by Debra K on 01/15/2008 at 01:15am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Why would you write someone just to criticize them. Who does that? The thing I've always liked about Trunk's post are you might not agree with them but they give you something to think about.
Posted by Monica on 01/20/2008 at 10:56pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
@ Yomama: You need to read some of my comments to Penelope if you think everything is very tickety-boo here.
We are not all sickeningly positive and we are still not "IP-banned' which is why we return sometimes also to say well-deserved nice things.
Posted by Shefaly on 01/21/2008 at 07:27am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Penelope demonstrates that when you connect with people emotionally, you can sell anything: good or bad.
Posted by bill on 01/21/2008 at 08:29am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Edison found , what? a couple hundred ways how *not* to make a lightbulb before he had his breakthrough. Do not give up. Get off the canvas and fight one more round.
Posted by albert on 02/01/2008 at 02:36pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
hi penelope, i'm so sorry that you got fired. you are a great writer with many interesting ideas. although i might not agree with all of them, it does help me think about all the different issues out there. I think you have a great blog here and i really enjoyed reading some of the comments here.
Posted by pei on 02/25/2008 at 05:46am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Hi,
ONly less than 5% of all unemployments are performance related, rest are due to layoffs. I have been part of that statistic and have learnt to look for jobs that have relatively high Job Security Score (www.jobsecurityscore.com). For unemployed, my advice is to be calm and focused and do a strategic search for jobs in stable to growing companies and use this tool – Reemployability Score – to see which industries and locations will get you the best results. Moving all manufacturing to China and outsourcing to India is only going to make things worse for us who want to be find good jobs offering good job security.
–Ken–
"Jobs will be no. 1 issue this year".
Posted by Ken Forester on 03/20/2008 at 03:16am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Hey Penelope…
Sorry I came to this article late.
I think you may find more success at "Google"
or "Women lifestyle magazines".
Posted by +DJ FunkyGrrL+ on 03/30/2008 at 01:08pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Hi Penelope,
Your blog came up in a search on the impact of getting fired and it's one of the few things I've read that rises above the sanitized platitudes. Thanks for this.
I've started a blog about my own experience as much for therapy as anything.
gettingfired.wordpress.com
Would be interested to know your thoughts :)
Posted by Debra on 12/01/2008 at 10:35am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Thanks for the unchecked honesty. It's a good lesson for all of us about the myth of "job security."
Posted by Jon Hartman on 01/16/2009 at 02:47pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Penelope, you are very courageous and despite all that has happened to you, you were very mature and dealt with all the crap that happened to you after yahoo fired you.
I can't imagine how it feels to have 100's of people every day post on my own column's telling me how stupid I am. I think I would blow a gasket or two.
You have my utmost respect and admiration for what you do. You are right, family and freedom are the most important thing to you, and you are an exemplar for all of us who aspires to be as strong and happy as you. Kudos.
Posted by Travell on 03/20/2009 at 06:46am | permalink | Reply to this comment
thanks for your article, i just got fired from work yesterday and at home today figuring out what went wrong. i also read the links to the other entries you wrote and again more thanks… it helps me see things in better perspective… i left big city job five years ago and settled in a very northern part of sweden where job choices for my skills are very rare, this decision i made prioritizing my 2 kids and husband…i am now a certified fan of your blog.
Posted by lilian on 04/03/2009 at 05:27am | permalink | Reply to this comment
So while my column has a lot of traffic, Yahoo sells my career column to advertisers as part of the Yahoo Finance package, and I bring down the CPM of the whole package.
If that is true, it epitomizes the level of FAIL we've seen from Yahoo lately. Rather than make a minor structural change to their ad sales, they'd rather fire a popular writer?
Sad thing is, I can believe it. There are companies whose systems are so inflexible that they need to lose money to make money because they can't monetize everything properly :(
Posted by Peter Cooper on 04/23/2009 at 01:49pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
if you really want to get fired do what i did…..take a piss in your bosse's office……while he is still in it
Posted by Michael on 06/02/2009 at 05:37pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I just recently lost my job as a Financial Adviser for Ameriprise Financial.
Oddest thing too, I was working and doing fine, even get congrats from my manager for doing a great job setting up appointments and boosting my call volume above what was expected, and after a particularly hard Friday, I went home on the weekend expecting to have a great week after 2 days of rest. Low and behold I get in on Monday morning and was met by my manager who told me they were having a conference on the conference floor. I was met by his manager, and they told me that they were going to let me go.
I asked why, and they told me about my vacation time accrued, I asked again and they told me that they would get my personal stuff. I asked a third time and they told me about the bonus I was supposed to get for relocating from Boston to Minneapolis. I tried to ask my manager when his manager was gone, but he wouldn't say anything about it. I asked one last time and they told me they would have a cab waiting to take me home, or wherever I wanted to go, and the company would pay for it. I stopped asking then.
Now I ask myself. What did I do wrong, and how did it come to this? As I sit here in the library using their internet and power, cause I couldn't afford to lease my own space without a job, I wonder what it all meant, and why they couldn't and still won't tell me why I was fired, and what should I do now going forward.
If it wasn't for the people I've met along the way, I'd say that I wished I'd never seen that job offer on Monster. If it wasn't for the great group of people I got to work with, I'd say it was all for nil. But I can't say that, cause you can't change the past, you can only affect the future.
Posted by Brett Staupe on 06/04/2009 at 11:20am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Hah! That really made me laugh – thanks!
Posted by scene girls on 06/11/2009 at 04:15pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Well they still won't tell me. Not only that, they won't even contact me, no matter what number I call. Gotta be the most frustrating thing ever when it comes to losing your job. Though I've come to believe it had to be something really stupid, and perhaps I'd be better off not knowing.
Posted by Brett Staupe on 06/12/2009 at 09:53am | permalink | Reply to this comment
I can not believe that they told you to work at LifeStyles or Working Mother, that is just plain discriminatory. Obviously America has a long way to go before women are treated with respect in the workplace.
Posted by BettyJames on 08/23/2009 at 02:00pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Great post and lets face it, its Yahoo's loss..
Posted by Karen Phone on 08/25/2009 at 04:16pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Getting fired is something difficult to deal with whether it is from Yahoo or anywhere else. You just need to take as much as you can with you and move on. I like how you advise to try to network even at the last minute. I think that Yahoo lost a lot by firing you but that is just my opinion. I would be upset if the reason they fired me was the CPM. Couldnt they have used another monetization model to capitalize on the visits you got?
Posted by Brad on 10/04/2009 at 06:34pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
i have never read your work or heard of you, just stumbled on this as i got fired today.
i took a job at entry level as i study for things related to it. so, that being said the job wasnt crazy important to me. I really heard ya when you talked about taking risks, I took all the professional risks i wanted at my job, always with the intent to improve myself and my workplace. it didnt work out though as i think the boss felt i was questioning her authority maybe. in anycase, i feel i really made a difference to the people around me at work, and i learnt a big deal about taking risks and when its better to keep my mouth shut!
risk takers out there i salute you!
Posted by stephen on 03/18/2010 at 10:18am | permalink | Reply to this comment