I just got fired from Yahoo Finance.
The long road to my quick termination started in the spring, when I grew friendly with one of the higher-ups in engineering at Yahoo. When he became my boss's boss's boss at Yahoo, he suggested that we meet if we were ever both in New York at the same time.
It turned out that we would both be there in December, so I asked him if he wanted to get together, and he said yes. His secretary said she'd email me the venue when the date was closer.
The week before, the venue turned out to be the Yahoo offices in New York. I thought that was weird for a casual meeting with a guy who did not even have his own office at that building. That is when I should have called to find out if we had a specific topic for the meeting.
When I got to the meeting my boss's boss was there as well, so I knew there was a big topic. I told myself to never ever walk into another meeting in my life without knowing who is coming and why I am there. I told myself to stay calm and start looking for clues about our topic so I could mentally prepare.
They went on and on about some sort of technical problem that was happening that day. Of the three of us, two were nontechnical, so I realized this topic was selected due to nervous energy: A clue that this meeting would be really bad.
To his credit, the guy I thought I was friendly with got right down to the point: "We are not renewing your contract."
The first thought I had was: When is my contract up?
And then I realized: Oh. Now.
The next thought I had was: Be poised. Do not break down right now.
I have been fired a lot. Sometimes it has not mattered, like when my grandma fired me from her bookstore because I kept reading on the job. Sometimes it has been a bad scene with me shaking because I was so scared – like when I was fired at Ingram Micro for using the computer for non-work-related stuff (Yes, people got fired for that in 1995.)
But I checked in with myself at Yahoo and realized that I was fine. I was not going to cry. I was actually in problem-solving mode.
So I asked why I was being fired.
Maybe you are thinking it's because every week, 400 people leave comments on Yahoo saying how stupid I am. (And surely today's final column at Yahoo Finance will break records for she-is-so-stupid comments.) But that's not the reason my column was cancelled; Yahoo is about traffic, and according to Wikipedia, my column has some of the highest traffic on all of Yahoo.
It turns out that financial content gets a higher CPM (advertising rate) than career content. So while my column has a lot of traffic, Yahoo sells my career column to advertisers as part of the Yahoo Finance package, and I bring down the CPM of the whole package.
That's a fair reason to cancel the column. And actually, if it were not resulting in a huge financial hit for me, it would be an interesting reason.
Here's what a career advisor does when she is being fired: She tries to remember the advice she gives to everyone else when they are getting fired.
I asked if there's another place I can write at Yahoo. This tactic is straight out of the book: Use your last moments to network, even if you are getting fired.
Here's what my boss's boss's boss said: "You should write for Lifestyles. That is more women oriented."
Immediately I was reminded of when my column was cancelled at Business 2.0 magazine. After I had recently announced that I was pregnant and said I did not plan to take any time off from writing the column.
My editor told me, as he was firing me, "Now that you're going to be a mom you should try writing someplace like Working Mother."
This advice from ex-bosses makes me question my own advice about getting help from people who are firing you. But still, discussions progressed at Yahoo to HotJobs, which is a Yahoo channel, and I could end up writing for them.
Also, a big trade publication called me last week to see if I want to write a column for them. The editor said that she sees me as such a huge risk taker, and she expects that the column will be a lot about that – how to take risks.
The thing is, I don't think I'm a huge risk taker. I just choose the lifestyle I want first, before I choose my work. Lifestyle first means that I turned down entry-level bullshit jobs in favor of playing professional beach volleyball. Not because I was dying to have all my friends think I was a lunatic, but because I couldn't believe people expect you to do mindless work after earning a college degree.
And the same is true now. I am a freelance writer because if I worked nine-to-five I wouldn't see my kids. That's my bottom line. There have been so many times when I've told myself that I can't stand the instability of a freelancer's life. But more than that, I can't stand the idea that I would only see my kids on the weekends.
People ask me all the time how can they get this life that I have where I do something I love, get to make my own hours, and support a family. Seems great, right? But that life also comes with this: having no idea how I'll get paid next. And it happens all the time.
Soon, I hope, I'll be able to draw a salary from my startup. And my speaking career is going well enough that getting fired from Yahoo won't kill me. But I am worried, and I think about not telling people that I feel worried because everyone who is negotiating with me now knows that money is super important to me, and I'm probably not going to walk away from an offer.
But more important than preserving an edge negotiating money is somehow documenting how hard it is to be true to yourself, how hard it is to be at risk all the time. It's a tradeoff. Sometimes my life looks glamorous. Sometimes it doesn't. It's all the same life though.





Penelope, so sorry to hear this! Their reason isn't a reflection on you, which is a sort of nice rarity when one is getting fired, not that that helps the bottom line any. You're such an excellent writer, able to make pretty much any topic you take on interesting and compelling and provocative, and I have to think this is just going to lead you somewhere better…
Posted by Ask a Manager on December 27, 2007 at 2:02 am | permalink |
I think you are right, Penelope – excellent writer.
But I'm sure that yahoo is wrong.
>> Sometimes my life looks glamorous. Sometimes it doesn't. It's all the same life though.
That's all.
Posted by seobag on March 7, 2009 at 10:38 am | permalink |
You see! This is what happens when you badmouth Christmas!
Posted by edw on December 27, 2007 at 2:06 am | permalink |
Sorry to hear this. Make sure you capitalize on all the readers who followed you at Yahoo. In some ways, Yahoo really gave you the audience. Now make sure we don't lose interest.
Posted by Ramirez on December 27, 2007 at 2:08 am | permalink |
I fire yahoo.
Posted by anne jackson on December 27, 2007 at 2:09 am | permalink |
Dear Penelope,
Thank you for writing your Yahoo column, I enjoyed reading some of your thoughts. As a career oriented person myself I know that there are up and down days. I especially enjoyed reading your columns when I;m having a career setback. Hopefully this is only a minor glitch in a successful career.
Posted by MN on December 27, 2007 at 2:11 am | permalink |
I have enjoyed reading your blog and am looking forward to seeing what exciting new changes lie ahead for you after this turn of events. Best wishes for the new year!
Posted by Lola on December 27, 2007 at 2:12 am | permalink |
I have been a recent, but persistent reader and admire your worldview. Moreover, I recently finished a book (Jump Point: How Network Culture is Revolutionizing Business, McGraw-Hill, January 2008) and have been modeling my next steps after your experiences. Let's keep in touch. I am sure many great adventures lie just ahead.
Tom
Posted by Tom Hayes on December 27, 2007 at 2:39 am | permalink |
I have to say I am an avid reader of your blog, I do consumer research for Gen-Y for a fortune 500 consumer products company and therefore know enough to know you are typically right on… I do read your columns on Yahoo! finance because the comments are funny (baby boomers) and they don't seem to be able to grasp the world we live in now (I'm a Gen-X'er BTW). Still, I have often asked myslef if you columns are lost on the typical yahoo! audience why would they post them, while it is the best thing they could do to wake up their readers, it probably doesn't work out that way (BTW I also like Kiyosaki on Yahoo! finance).
If yahoo! knows their audience is boomer-heavy, why does yahoo mail insist everyone have an avatar, I don't want an avatar! And I am sure everyone older than me feels the same way!
I wish you the best, hope you keep blogging as I have told many people at work to read your blog, it is a great window into the new corporate world whether people like it or not.
PS – I miss business 2.0
* * * * * * *
Hi, Tom. Thanks for the comment. The part about the avatars makes me laugh.
I will definitely keep blogging — did not think of stopping for even one second.
–Penelope
Posted by Tom S. on December 27, 2007 at 3:04 am | permalink |
I'm an avid reader of all things Penelope. It's something akin to watching horror movies. Your views are exciting but, also, quite scary. It's a pity Yahoo let you go, especially, during the Christmas season! Tactless…
So thank you for the articles. I'm quite sure you'll get a better deal from your next 'employer'. Happy New Year!
Posted by Kiran Denniz on December 27, 2007 at 3:34 am | permalink |
Penelope, (This is the comment I left at Yahoo!Finacial.)
I am more ashamed of the comments coming from the peanut gallery at Yahoo!Financial than anything I read from your pen. You'll find your audience, I'm sure of it. I gave up corporate life because of these hacks — who the hell wants to sit next to these miserable wonks eight hours a day picking everything and everyone apart. Instead I honestly believe that starting and growing a business is a far more honorable pursuit than kissing tail in the corporate sewers. I have more respect for you and your creative drive than anyone middle manager for a fortune 500 corporation. Those commenting on your articles had little regard for the need to develop interpersonal relationships and therefore didn't get most of what you were saying. Plus most of those commenting were men — and in all my corporate IT years, women still face opprobrious prejudices and ridicule from men. Good Luck.
Posted by marcparella on December 27, 2007 at 3:35 am | permalink |
God if I had a dollar for every time this happened to me I would be set. Stick to your guns, I read you every day and for the first time in my life I know another person whom marches to the same drum. Everything always works out for the best, one door closes and another one opens. All the best to you; I know it is my turn in early January 2008 – and I hope that I can face it with the dignity you have.
Always listen to your gut, it never lies.
David.
Posted by David Lightman on December 27, 2007 at 3:58 am | permalink |
I've only started reading your blog recently Penelope but can easily see you've the talent and the attitude to make this Yahoo thing an opportunity, not a setback. I had a career blip in mid-2007 but after the initial shock set about making the most of my situation. Now I'm doing what I love (;) and am finally writing for myself. Next is that book on procrastination I've been meaning to write for a while. Just watch… 2008 will be a great year for you.
Phil
Posted by Phil on December 27, 2007 at 7:21 am | permalink |
Dear Penelope,
I am sorry to hear about this. As I read your comments I tried to think if there is a reason that editor said you should write for Lifestyles, or something more women-oriented. The only reason I can come up with is that your are usually writing about RELATIONSHIPS–business relationships, boss-employee relationships, co-worker relationships, husband-wife relationships, etc. Maybe this is where his comment came from. That being said, this is what makes your columns so interesting.
It does appear, however, that you have an equal number of men reading. But perhaps this editor's thought is that more women are reading than men?
Good luck to you,
Mary in Marrakesh
Posted by Mary in Marrakesh on December 27, 2007 at 7:39 am | permalink |
Penelope, not to worry, as Yahoo! did help you build your brand, gain readership and an audience. Although the audience was aggressive and sometimes quite harsh, the right one's I'm sure pulled through.
Let me know if you need anything and merry christmas.
Change is a good thing!
Posted by Dan Schawbel on December 27, 2007 at 7:57 am | permalink |
Hang in there, I am sure with all your family responsibilities this must be tough.
Thanks for being gutsy enough to write about this stuff. If there is anything I can do to help with brainstorming etc, please reach out directly. Best, JB.
Posted by JimB on December 27, 2007 at 8:32 am | permalink |
Hi,
This sucks and I hope you know that I really get it because I've been there and I'm the breadwinner. When it did happen I hated pretty much everything anyone said to me, it all seemed pointless. But I ended up doing something very different, something I liked more. This didn't remove the stress or the fact that we lost money. But as cheesy as it sounds, there WAS a reason why it happened and I think there IS a reason why this will be good.
I am not an optimist — I don't like hopeful thinking. This comes from what I think is reality – they helped you build up your audience but there wasn't a great fit and now you don't need them. Yes, you need them for the money, but you'll find it elsewhere. You don't need them for reach and I always thought that was the key value they delivered.
Hang in there.
Posted by Nataly on December 27, 2007 at 8:55 am | permalink |
Penelope, your writing is brave and prescient and terrifying to the (still, mostly) male establishment. When you have the temerity to point out a fact that young twenty-somethings “at the top of their games” can no longer be controlled and manipulated by age-old corporate head games they know there’s a sea-change headed for their
dark walnut paneled/overstuffed mahogany leathered/cigar infested corporate suites.
The knee-jerk reaction they just handed you speaks poorly for that bullshit “hail-fellow-well-me” camaraderie they reserve for their own brethren. You keep on goin’ girl. Yours is a voice we can ill afford to do without.
Maureen
Posted by Maureen Sharib on December 27, 2007 at 9:01 am | permalink |
Penelope, that sucks. I'm sorry to hear about Yahoo.
And I 'feel' you about worrying that you are "at risk" all the time. But, I think that it makes life just a little more exciting. And, rest assured that life will provide you with the opportunities you need, often when you least expect it. ;)
Posted by Cody McKibben on December 27, 2007 at 9:26 am | permalink |
I agree with Maureen.
I mean — “You should write for Lifestyles. That is more women oriented.”? Holy shit.
That reminds me of the "Stanley, of course" line from Season One episode of The Office. (The boss's first pick for the basketball team is the one black guy in the office, who turns out to be a horrible athlete.)
I guess, until you adopt a male pseudonym, you'll always be pigeonholed as a female career columnist instead of just a career columnist.
Ah well, one thing's for sure: in a world oversaturated with punditry, your column was original enough to elicit passionate opinions.
Mazel tov on the first day of this new chapter in your life. I know there is great stuff in store for you.
Posted by Joe Grossberg on December 27, 2007 at 9:32 am | permalink |
I am sorry to hear this, but I am a true believer in EVERYTHING happens for a reason. I feel you will more than land on your feet.
Please ignore that person's insensitive Christmas comment, it is 100% inappropriate!!!
Posted by Marie on December 27, 2007 at 9:34 am | permalink |
it seems that your boss's boss's boss is such a male chauvinist. "More women oriented"? Just because you're a woman so your writing is only relevant for women, is that what he's thinking? He's soooo from the dark ages. I have fired yahoo.com long time ago, therefore i am sure you'll be doing fine without yahoo.
Posted by Rani on December 27, 2007 at 9:36 am | permalink |
Thanks for sharing this with us and again, being real about what's going on in your life.
It sucks to be blindsided (been there with a job here in Madison) but sounds like you've got the right thinking of how to use this as a learning experience and move on.
Though the excuse for firing seems valid, the comment about writing for a 'more woman oriented' column kinda ticks me off. If you wrote for a more woman oriented column, that would mean less male readers, which in turn would mean less male comments, which I enjoy reading and learn quite a bit from their point of view.
You seem to have a great attitude about this. Hope it hasn't been too bad. Learn, move on and make something greater, like your start-up! Maybe HotJobs will pan out, though sounds like it could be something porn related (I do know what HotJobs is, by the way!)
Posted by Karen on December 27, 2007 at 9:40 am | permalink |
Damn P…Sorry to hear that. I really enjoyed Thursday mornings when I could read your column on Yahoo. You have a talent for making people think about what they are reading…not all of it makes sense to everyone but it does shine a light in a different direction of thought. Looking forward to the next spot your article turns up!
Posted by Matt Bingham on December 27, 2007 at 9:48 am | permalink |
You know, this will probably end up being the best thing to ever happen to you. On Y Finance, you selling ice cream to eskimoes – a useful product that the particular audience didn't want and obviously had a good deal of disdain for.
Take it as a badge of honor and move on! Bigger and better things are ahead of you.
Posted by Aaron Erickson on December 27, 2007 at 10:05 am | permalink |
Penelope:
Been there, done that. And since I was fired I've ended up better off and better paid. You have a lot of talent and I love reading your blog, so keep on keeping on! I think you'll do just fine.
Scott
Posted by Scott on December 27, 2007 at 10:32 am | permalink |
Sorry to hear the news.
"More women oriented"? Someone actually said that to you? Wow.
LMAO about the avatars above.
Posted by Elizabeth on December 27, 2007 at 10:41 am | permalink |
And Yahoo wonders why they continuously lose ground to the likes of Google…frankly, your column was one of the best on Y! Finance, but I'll continue to check out your blog. And, as a young professional in his early 20s, I find it somewhat offensive that management would suggest your write for a women's magazine. That's just ridiculous; your articles are terrific for anyone who has a career, not just women. Good luck in your future endeavors.
Posted by wal on December 27, 2007 at 10:47 am | permalink |
What I don't understand is why the readers of Yahoo Finance were so abusive towards you in the comments, the anonymity of the internet makes it easy for people to say hurtful things.
Posted by jim on December 27, 2007 at 10:49 am | permalink |
Penelope,
More condolences. Although it doesn't help you, you're right. That is a really interesting reason for firing you.
Your thoughts on the dichotomy of freelance work are important and I hope a lot of people pay attention to them. I'm spending a lot of time trying to brand myself and work my way to the place where I can take that freedom. Having friends who freelance and face these challenges helps, it lets me see what I'm in for.
I wish you the best of luck in your future endeavors, and anticipate catching your columns wherever else they may appear.
(On a side note, Yahoo! is evil, has always been evil, and I was always annoyed to have to give patronage to the devil to read your columns anyway. A previous commenter has a good point. Yahoo!'s clientele seems to be primarily boomers, they don't seem very good at taking their audience into account.)
Posted by theo on December 27, 2007 at 10:55 am | permalink |
Well, having found your blog via Yahoo!, I'm sorry to see you go. I WON'T be sorry to stop seeing all those negative, mean-spirited comments, though. HotJobs (or Monster, CareerBuilder, etc) would be a logical choice, so I'm sure something will happen.
Posted by Norcross on December 27, 2007 at 10:56 am | permalink |
I don't always agree with you, but I enjoy reading. Someone's got to stir the pot, right? Sorry to hear you've lost your main source of income.
Thanks for the honesty. As a young woman trying to put lifestyle first, it is truly appreciated.
Posted by holly on December 27, 2007 at 11:00 am | permalink |
Have enjoyed reading your column. Will try to keep up through the blog.
Have you thought about writing for Forbes?
Posted by Mike on December 27, 2007 at 11:06 am | permalink |
Although I am sorry to see you were fired, many of your comments and advice were way off base. I am more sorry for all the folks who took your misguided advice and acted on it. You may be an OK person, but you are a terrible advice giver. Good luck on your new career.
Posted by James H on December 27, 2007 at 11:07 am | permalink |
Unlike your other readers, I'm not sorry for you, though I am going to miss the Thursday mornings at Yahoo Finance. But things happen for a reason, and there's no sense in feeling sorry for ourselves when they do. Yahoo wasn't the place for you, and your posts here on your own blog are MUCH better. Good luck with future endeavors, and I'll just change the bookmark to redirect here.
Posted by deepali on December 27, 2007 at 11:09 am | permalink |
Penelope,
While I didn't always agree with your advise, I still felt that your articles brought a new angle to the table which either caused me to strengthen my own beliefs or change them to fit a wider mold. For that reason alone (of course there were other reasons too!), your column was greatly worth reading. I'm sorry to hear about you getting fired but we've all been there and you'll do just fine.
Might I suggest talking to the people over at Google? You'll have a guranteed following from the fans of your writing style and all of those angry people that always post comments on your articles. Seeing as how Yahoo Finance is still top dog, I'd be willing to bet that Google would view taking you on as a way to increase their market share.
Best of luck,
David Cox
Posted by David Cox on December 27, 2007 at 11:10 am | permalink |
I'm a new reader to your blog and the previous posts in your archieve. Damm it sucks to be let go from any job.
All I can say is sometimes you have to make lemonade from lemons and I have this feeling you will be OK. Have a good one.
BB
Posted by Bouncing Betty on December 27, 2007 at 11:13 am | permalink |
Sorry to hear that. I'm sure you'll bounce back.
I think this goes to show the wisdom of your advice to cultivate a braided career and avoid putting all your eggs in one basket.
Posted by Caitlin on December 27, 2007 at 11:15 am | permalink |
I have truly enjoyed your columns to the point where I pass them along to my 16 and 17 year old of how to cope with the working world.
I've gone the corporate route for 25 years and been through what you're going through. Yahoo is making yet another mistake.
If all I wanted to read was finance, there are other sites I could go to. Keep up the great work, you are influencing people much more beyond the column. Kids will outlive all of us regardless of whatever the current CPM is.
I hope your supervisors continue to read your columns. They are going to need your advice just like the now former supervisors at AOL, MCI and Enron do. Castles made of sand fall in the eventually.
Posted by Bill Knudson on December 27, 2007 at 11:39 am | permalink |
Penelope,
Honestly, you will be missed. A few of my coworkers and I had good fun with several of your articles.
Just an FYI, the line from wikipedia "one of the most traficked sections of Yahoo Finance, although most of her comments are negative" was written by yours truly, and there is no scientific basis or web traffic report I can cite to.
Good luck on your future endeavors,
Jesse
Posted by Jesse Cline on December 27, 2007 at 11:59 am | permalink |
If nothing else – you have proven that you are a survivor. I have read your blogs for years and will continue to do so.
I am frankly relieved to see you off the Yahoo site. Those comments were rarely useful, insightful or meaningful. I can't believe that they didn't somehow affect you. I wished that you could have written that column without getting all of the immature feedback. If you were so bad, whay did all of those idiots keep reading you?
You are an outstanding source of information for me and I have come to know you as a psuedo career counselor / mentor.
I don't always agree with your posts, however they all make me think, form my own opinions and most importantly – examine my own life and career. I am waiting for the future post when you can look back at this and see that this was a blessing.
Keep up the frank and honest advice.
Posted by Mitch on December 27, 2007 at 12:00 pm | permalink |
Hi Penelope,
I'm sorry to hear about this financial hit you're taking right now with the loss of the column. I am grateful that I found this blog through Yahoo, though and know you'll keep growing.
Posted by Joselle Palacios on December 27, 2007 at 12:03 pm | permalink |
I will miss the comments at Yahoo, most of them were dead on.
Posted by jake on December 27, 2007 at 12:09 pm | permalink |
Having been in the online advertising business, the reason the folks at Yahoo gave does ring true. Intuitively, my guess is that your audience isn't super-valuable to folks trying to push brokerage accounts and mutual funds. Ramit's blog is a much better fit (wouldn't it be great to see how much hate mail *he'd* get…of course he would revel in the hatred).
On the other hand, they are morons for being willing to give up a lightning rod for pageviews and controversies. Sounds like things are way too siloed over there.
As some of the commenters have pointed out, Yahoo has served its purpose. It brought your blog a big audience. Lord knows, the financial part of it hurts (those who have never been a freelancer or entrepreneur don't understand what a miracle it is to get money deposited in your bank account every two weeks regardless of what you've done), but you'll be able to focus on writing the kinds of posts you want to write, and on building the startup.
Firings may not be fair, but its rare that a firing occurs without a reasonable degree of misfit between the two parties. Freed from Yahoo's constraints, you can now write the way you want to write, and that's a good thing.
Posted by Chris Yeh on December 27, 2007 at 12:16 pm | permalink |
Hey Penelope,
I didn't read your Yahoo column so I guess I won't be missing anything. Good luck in the next thing, whatever it is. I don't always agree with what you say, but it sure makes for a good stir in the bucket some days.
Posted by gt on December 27, 2007 at 12:29 pm | permalink |
That sucks, but think you will come out stronger for it. The start-up will be a success, you are building a great team that is building a great network.
I think you have it figured out, and if you don't you'll try and try again.
Posted by Greg Rollett on December 27, 2007 at 12:44 pm | permalink |
Stupid, stupid, stupid!
There are only two infinite things: The Universe and the stupidity of people. And I am not sure about the first one. – A. Einstein.
Posted by AEinstein on December 27, 2007 at 12:47 pm | permalink |
now that… was a great blog. Well done and all the best in your next steps. i will definitely stay tuned in 2008!
Posted by john on December 27, 2007 at 12:48 pm | permalink |
P-
Isn't life a ball??? I was fired right after my mother died unexpectedly this year. But I immediately started the job search and quickly found a position in another firm that seems more in line with my goals, let alone pays better. I'm sure you'll find a better path yourself and everything will work out. I love your blog and will continue to follow your writing, wherever the path takes you. Enjoy the holidays!
Posted by R78 on December 27, 2007 at 12:49 pm | permalink |
Why not continue the column on this site? It seems like you have built enough traffic for a following – hatred or not. Throw a few ads up, look up Feedburner ads into your feeds, market your self/this site a bit more, and well you might get some of that revenue back.
Posted by Dustin on December 27, 2007 at 12:52 pm | permalink |
Penelope! Here's wishing you an even brighter and more prosperous 2008.
I think bigger and better things are going to come your way. You are so funny, honest, perceptive, and insightful that you'll be able to write a number of places.
I've learned more from your columns then from some of the "preachy" books I've read on careers & relationships.
You remind me that nobody has the answers…and that even career columnists get fired sometimes. It makes me realize that all of us have lives that are messy and works in progress adn that's the way it should be.
Kudos to you for your brave writing! Looking forward to more of the same in 2008
Posted by Vidya on December 27, 2007 at 1:11 pm | permalink |
Ahh…yes. One more indication showing how google gets it and yahoo doesn't.
Because at yahoo, they've (sadly) long since digressed into "maximizing shareholder value" vs. "helping the customer kick ass"
"yeah…she's a great draw, does a very excellent job, but frankly you're just not meeting our arbitrary metrics".
Take heart Penelope, it could be worse. ( http://headrush.typepad.com/creating_passionate_users/2005/01/giving_a_damn_a.html )
-aaron
Posted by aaron on December 27, 2007 at 1:18 pm | permalink |
Sounds like a very strange way to get fired, a chance meeting while both are in New York? I guess they weren't too upset at your work. At least there are other sources of income while you seek better employment than at Yahoo. Your articles are certainly thought-provoking and interesting to read.
I agree with another poster, call Google – they'd love to widen the gap with Yahoo even more….
Enjoy those kids during the holidays!!
Posted by chuck on December 27, 2007 at 1:18 pm | permalink |
Penelope,
Your advice has always been about what is *really* going on in the world, but people are either too stupid or too scared to acknowledge it. I would say also that your comments about the "next generation" of work are also true. Here in Silicon Valley where I work, your posts are stunningly accurate and on point. I suspect that many of the commenters on Y! finance are simply old men, or perhaps someone you've personally offended, or perhaps even a competitor. People in the midwest do not understand yet—their old line factories have not yet caught up with the new world reality. These are the same people who riot at the idea of the global economy.
Hang in there, girl. I must tell you I think the people at Y! really are Yahoos—-I've yet to meet people who worked there who were intelligent with leadership skills. I've turned down several opportunities to work there because the people were just insufferable. Most are people trying to do as little as possible to get by to protect their stock options. Having you fly on your own time and expense to NYC to pull this crap is typical of the Harvard Business School morons I've worked with—::snort:: leadership my a$$.
I don't always agree with you—In particular I think you embrace the "age wars" concept a little too much—but you are honest about your life, direct in your writing, and always have something new and interesting to write about.
Slightly off topic–I was stunned to read the comments at Y! finance that someone suggested you not use links in your posts? Where do their readers come from, Mississippi? Sheesh!
You've been on my RSS feed for awhile, and like the others I hated going to Y! to finish a column from my blog reader. So….consider me a loyal reader.
Posted by A Gal on December 27, 2007 at 1:34 pm | permalink |
I'd occasionally glance at the comments from your Yahoo article and was really disappointed with the unprofessionalism. It's one thing to disagree but name calling is just ridiculous.
Yahoo's audience really wasn't a good fit (I can't believe I just used that HR cop-out phrase)for you. Microsoft's MSN is in desperate need of some attention, maybe you give them a call.
Posted by Jeremiah on December 27, 2007 at 1:35 pm | permalink |
Penelope-
I've been using the MBPT as my hammer lately and it works for alot of nails!
I am a ENFP and am guessing that is what you are too. When I read your material, I understand your points exactly. With this type of thinking, I have had a very successful (in flexibility and money) engineering consulting career.
The 400 comments came from mostly IS (Introverted Sensing) people. Who is most likely to be conducting a dialog using a computer, introverted or extraverted? And who bases their decisions on written information, intuitive or sensing?
Why are there so many IS boomers writing negative comments?
1. Your largest audience is by definition IS people which is our Inferior type.
I suspect the x'er culture has produced more EN people and the boomer culture has created more IS people. I also think something in the Jewish culture tends to create more EN people. (I would like to see a study on this!)
2. The IS people don't understand EN people.
We synthesize and draw conclusions based on things that seem perfectly obvious to us, but they don't understand how we come come up with this "crap". Professionally, I try to have a ES or IN person buffer my dialog with the IS types. (seek an editor of these types)
3. IS are more likely to write comments.
As an ENFJ, I have never left comments on Yahoo in support of you. Unless I have something insightful to add, I have better things to do.
Only a bored person would leave comments with no added insight. The IS people like to be in a routine, don't move on for better things, therefore are more likely to be bored.
Posted by John on December 27, 2007 at 1:52 pm | permalink |
I really enjoyed reading your articles on yahoo. Now that I have found your blog I am hooked. By looking at the amount of negative comments left on Yahoo, I will have to agree with Jeremiah. The Yahoo audience (in general) was not a good fit.
Keep up the good work.
Posted by Denita on December 27, 2007 at 1:55 pm | permalink |
You are simply awesome. I found you through Yahoo; so if nothing else it was a conduit to a larger audience. I am eager to see what the future brings to you, you are a role model and mentor to me and many others. Wherever you land, we will all be here.
Posted by jahmai on December 27, 2007 at 2:07 pm | permalink |
Hi Penelope, I'm really sorry to hear about this. If it makes you feel better, from my perspective your personal blog has been more influential than your Yahoo! column. I know how hard the financial stuff can be, but at least the speaking is bringing in good money, and you still get higher advances for your books than most authors I know.
I too sometimes get mired in the difficulties of the life we have chosen, and it helps when a colleague or reader says to me that they would give anything to be in my position: to be doing what they love, on their own schedule. I think that we really are very lucky in the scheme of things.
Hang in there. 2008 is bound to bring lots of good things.
Best,
Alexandra Levit
Posted by Alexandra Levit on December 27, 2007 at 2:11 pm | permalink |
Hi Penelope! That really sucks about Yahoo. I loved reading your column there. I know you will land something great very soon. In my experience of getting fired, it always frees me up to accept an even better opportunity!
Also, I think your life seems glamorous because you have the knowledge, ability and platform to help people. You have helped me to clarify my career goals and to see what matters most to me. It's really wonderful what you do.
Posted by Charlie on December 27, 2007 at 2:11 pm | permalink |
Well — sounds like the Yahoo! execs don't know how to make money off great content. This does not bode well for them, but given the way that company has been going lately, not much does.
Good luck! If more people just add your RSS feed here, you won't need Yahoo! :)
Posted by late_twentysomething on December 27, 2007 at 2:20 pm | permalink |
Sorry to hear about the unfortunate turn of events.
But at the risk of preaching a bit…..As a career adviser, you would do well to take a lesson from Dave Ramsey's teachings to prepare yourself financially for the sudden loss of income. If you follow his philosophies, you'll make yourself financially healthy enough to withstand the uncontrollable circumstances you've just experienced. The grass will be more green and the air will be more fresh than ever once you've achieved financial freedom. It'll set you free.
Good luck going forward.
Posted by Jim on December 27, 2007 at 2:27 pm | permalink |
The Yahoo column really wasn't very good.
Posted by Mary Greenberg on December 27, 2007 at 2:31 pm | permalink |
Hey Miss P, sorry to hear about this.
It's never fun.
As you know, personal finance, especially behavioral finance, is my Big Passion.
So if you ever want to discuss personal financial ideas/options, just email me, ok?
As you know I volunteer as a financial counselor here in SEA and help people all the time with their financial roadmap.
Posted by finance girl on December 27, 2007 at 2:38 pm | permalink |
The end of one thing signals the beginning of something else. You can't have one without the other. Now that the end of Yahoo is behind you – let's see what now gets started.
It'll be fun to watch. Maybe even inspirational.
Live long and prosper – Spock
Later,
LK
Posted by Leonard Klaatu on December 27, 2007 at 2:44 pm | permalink |
P:
I can guarantee that there is a bigger opportunity for you and this firing is just making room for that. I've been telling my friends this for years when crappy things happen at work. Then about 1.5 years ago I had a crappy work thing happen to me (didn't get a promotion I thought was in the bag) and one of my friends gave me the whole "bigger opportunity" speech and I was really annoyed with her. But she was right. I got my dream job six months later. Had I been promoted, I'd still be at my old job working with a bunch of monkeys.
I know you're a tough chick and really don't need my pep talk, but I wanted to send some positive vibes your way.
Posted by Suzanne on December 27, 2007 at 2:45 pm | permalink |
Hey, don't look the lifestyles thing like an insult. Career driven advice does fit in better with a lifestyles channel than an investing channel. Regardless of the proposed audience, it could just be the perfect fit with far fewer dismissive comments.
Posted by Ted on December 27, 2007 at 2:53 pm | permalink |
Penelope,
Most of the people who cast stones on the Yahoo blog aren't smart enough to use an RSS reader – as always, it's sure that you'll receive a more thoughtful and critical response on your blog.
Yahoo's decision to enable comments on their expert blogs was a misguided attempt to generate any sort of viral effect after so many other failed attempts at creativity – I'm sure it boosted the bottom line a little, but it will inevitably drive away talent. They have consistently grasped at straws and shuffled their feet as the managers and sycophants wrench the reigns away from the creative and technically adept at that organization.
Yahoo is a company in deep pain and in serious need of an identity enema. They have a staggering (internal and external) inferiority complex to Google and are hacking away with a machete at everything outside the core group (you) before they actually admit the true depth of the coming restructure. This reeks of a mid-level executive attempting to save his job.
It is truly ironic and sad that they would cut loose such a fruitful source of traffic without even considering an immediate internal referral – it speaks to the deep disfunction and siloism that exists in that organization.
The truth is rarely popular with corporatism – you have been honest and helped those who would listen to maybe avoid the 2-7% yearly pay increase for which so many misguided souls will settle. In that, you have helped people grow and enjoy more fulfilling lives. Thank You.
Good luck with your future – I will be reading.
Mojo
Posted by Mojo on December 27, 2007 at 3:00 pm | permalink |
I fired Yahoo about 10 years ago. Who really does use Yahoo?? Do they really have anything to offer? They aren't anything special..
This is a blessing in disguise as the ending of most jobs. You should be really happy you are not associated with a company that is not going any where. They seem to be content with being number 2. Personally I think your writing is star status and I am really surprised that I randomly found your web page.
Oh and I am here also
"The thing is, I don’t think I’m a huge risk taker. I just choose the lifestyle I want first, before I choose my work. Lifestyle first means that I turned down entry-level bullshit jobs in favor of playing professional beach volleyball. Not because I was dying to have all my friends think I was a lunatic, but because I couldn’t believe people expect you to do mindless work after earning a college degree."
it makes life more livable and interesting.
Good Luck with whatever you do.
P.S. Yahoo: Business 2.0 went out of business because they made stupid business decisions like letting great writers go..
Posted by Katie on December 27, 2007 at 3:07 pm | permalink |
I'm sorry to see you leaving, Penelope, and even sorrier about Business 2.0, which I still miss even after all this time.
I'd like to think there's some possibility the "Lifestyles" comment was meant sincerely and with the best of intentions but just came out horribly, horribly wrong. This doesn't seem to be the case, however.
I wish you the best going forward, and I'd like to see how Yahoo responds to this, if at all (you know there will be people posting about it all over the blogosphere and the conversation boards at Yahoo – I came here via Valleywag).
It might come as a total shock to them to find out that there are actually working women who make and invest money and appreciate a woman's presence – and perspective – on finance and career issues!
How about *that* for a "Lifestyles" topic?
Posted by Jeff O'Connor on December 27, 2007 at 3:21 pm | permalink |
Although I have rarely agreed with your advice. I have enjoyed you column. It's been nice to get a different view point than my own. I'm also far to mature to bash you on your own bandwidth.
Good luck in your future endeavors. I will continue to follow your blog
Posted by Jennifer on December 27, 2007 at 3:36 pm | permalink |
I'm glad that your alarmingly bad advice such as "Don't ask for time off, just take it." and "Tone down your work ethic." will no longer be part of Yahoo!.
Posted by matt on December 27, 2007 at 3:58 pm | permalink |
Penelope:
Strange how after reading your post and all the comments that all I feel is happiness and joy for you.
Getting fired sucks, yes, when you aren't quite prepared. I know theoretically we should all have six month's expenses in the bank, but the reality is that most people don't. For all I know you may … but it still requires a big attitude adjustment to get used to less predictable income each month.
The reason I know you will be ok is that you speak your truth. You may not feel like a risk-taker, but from my perspective you are one of the most courageous people I know. You speak your truth, even when you know it is unpopular and will make you a target. Those that don't write for a living may not understand the emotional fortitude it takes to write from your heart about things that are important to you, then hang a picture of your face on a great big target when you press the "publish" button. It is so much easier to criticize than come up with original ideas!
I agree with the readers that say Yahoo was not the best place for you. There are "your" people out there (many at this blog) waiting for your specific advice, who will put it to good use and make positive changes in their life. No advice is right for everyone, since we are all different.
Taking you out of that gig has freed you up for a different situation, one which will stretch and grow you in new ways.
When my husband lost a few huge contracts this year with no notice, we used the time to step back and re-assess what we wanted to do with the business. The downtime allowed us to complete some key things that have positioned us for more stability and growth in the coming year. It was scary as hell figuring out the financial side, but we made it and everything worked out.
You are bright and talented and will not hurt for money to take care of your family. Trust me! Just keep doing what you are doing.
Happy New Year! Looking forward to the next chapter.
Posted by Pamela Slim on December 27, 2007 at 4:05 pm | permalink |
Your column was the first and only thing I've read on Yahoo! I loved the fresh perspective, and to be honest, the weird hate comments were really an interesting window into a dying corporate mindset. I'll miss your column, but I look forward to whatever comes next. Personally, I'm hoping it's not "lifestyles" – blech!
Good luck.
Posted by lizriz on December 27, 2007 at 4:14 pm | permalink |
Penelope, I know you'll bounce from this and likely onto something even better. Here's hoping this is one of the closed doors/opened windows deals, which will lead to a more prosperous 2008!!
Posted by dawn on December 27, 2007 at 4:14 pm | permalink |
Thanks for sharing this; I can imagine how disruptive it would be to lose that contract. But I'm still a little envious–you have multiple streams of income whereas I merely have multiple streams of work. Losing a big income stream is tough, but it is not the same thing as if I were fired from my job and suddenly unemployed without health care coverage for my growing family.
I think it is smart for you to tell the story (the facts behind the "why") here. The permanently pessimistic readers at yahoo will claim victory and try to spin this as vindication of their criticism of you. Actually it simply proves they are worth less to yahoo than the successful people who read the financial blogs on yahoo. All those yapping fools are bringing down the collective value of the Yahoo Finance brand…so, arguably, they got fired too.
I think you will find something better quickly. Good luck!
Posted by Dave Atkins on December 27, 2007 at 4:20 pm | permalink |
First and foremost edw is a loser and needs to grow up.
Secondly I am sorry about being fired from Yahoo, but you never know…being fired from Yahoo could open up new and better doors for you.
P.S. I wish I could make a living off of web-design so I could be with my 3 children everyday instead of working a 9-5. You're truly blessed.
Posted by Samara on December 27, 2007 at 4:41 pm | permalink |
Pen;
I've always been a firm believer in two things: When God closes a door, he always opens a window; and living well is the best revenge.
Go & get 'em! I know that you will do a great column wherever you land, and it will be fabulous! You always seem to get to the root of the issue (even if others don't want to hear it) quickly, and offer great advice.
Good luck in the New Year, and in your new endeavors!
Posted by Susan Sherrouse on December 27, 2007 at 4:57 pm | permalink |
Penelope,
I've really enjoyed reading your Yahoo! column–such a fresh perspective on careers and life. Don't lose any of your edge and your opinions; they challenge us as readers and life-livers. I look forward to seeing where you land next.
–Tyler
Game Designer, Writer
Posted by Tyler Sigman on December 27, 2007 at 4:01 pm | permalink |
I suggest you get in a flowery dress with a frilly apron and go back to the guy who suggested you write about "Womens' topics" and tell him that you'd love to take his suggestion, but you're afraid that your role is to stay home and cook all day long, so you really don't feel comfortable with it. You're grateful however, that he was so kind as to suggest something like that…..ahh, what a twit.
Business is as much for women as finance and as childraising and as cooking.
Anyway, good luck with your next move!
Posted by Mrs. Micah on December 27, 2007 at 5:02 pm | permalink |
Another idea, you might consider writing for the Wall Street Journal. They have some great blogs and I think your content would be super fresh for them. They have a great blog called The Juggle that is often controversial and heated in its exchanges, though much less filled with vitriol than Yahoo Finance.
Posted by A Gal on December 27, 2007 at 5:03 pm | permalink |
PT,
The whole 'I got canned because I brought the CPM rate down' is pure baloney. Doesn't it make sense that if "Yahoo is about traffic" and your "column has some of the highest traffic on all of Yahoo" then Yahoo would keep you around since you provide their advertizers with the exposure they desire? If you provided more impressions than the other columnists (which your citation of Wikipedia supports) then you should attract a higher CPM, not lower.
I can only conclude that CPM was not the rfeal reason they dumped you. The real reason was that your advice was just terrible – plain and simple. Your column made a mockery of Yahoo's attempt to provide reliable, sound advice, so they no longer wanted to associate your "brand" with theirs. Result – you got canned. You weren't the first (e.g. Rosie – great for the ratings, terrible brand), and you won't be the last.
My advice to you and your readers is: work hard, do a good job, and don't expect something for nothing.
Posted by Tertius on December 27, 2007 at 5:12 pm | permalink |
I never read what you write for Yahoo, unless you link to it from your blog. I'm extremely selective about the blogs I read daily; I only allow myself five and if I find one I like better than my five, I have to eliminate one. You are solidly in my five. I admire your fearless candor and your balance between your personal struggles and achievements and career advice. I've used your advice to my significant benefit when negotiating salary for a new job. Just wanted you to know that, even when I totally disagree with you, I think you are quite spectacular.
Posted by Casey on December 27, 2007 at 5:32 pm | permalink |
Tertius –
CPM is not about how much traffic you have. It's about how much each impression is worth. Yahoo is about traffic, but they need to monetize that traffic.
Posted by Erik on December 27, 2007 at 5:36 pm | permalink |
Bwah-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha!!! Or should I say "Yahoo!"?
Posted by Trunk Addict on December 27, 2007 at 5:41 pm | permalink |
I'm amused the pinheads from Yahoo have shown up. They must really be losers with no life to follow someone around like this.
Don't feed the trolls folks. Ignore them and they will go away.
Penelope, I urge you to purge the comments that come from people like trunk addict. I don't want to have to read that negativity.
Posted by A Gal on December 27, 2007 at 5:52 pm | permalink |
maybe you should go get an MBA. It's a great degree for changing the direction of your career. In addition to providing a great business network, it gives you more qualifications and education to put on your resume, which it seems like you might be needing now. Just a thought.
Posted by bob on December 27, 2007 at 5:58 pm | permalink |
I can't believe that Yahoo thinks "finance" is just about what the stock market is doing or not doing today or whether the housing boom was actually a bubble (DUH). Zillions of sites cover money in a male-oriented way, complete with sports metaphors, which is a real snoozer for over half the population.
They're SO wrong about this. Chin up, Penelope.
Posted by Arlene on December 27, 2007 at 6:04 pm | permalink |
I think the column on yahoo finance was just geared toward a different crowd and age group. Mostly workers in their 40's who work a stable 9-5 job and find it insulting to read any other options are available, which they obviously are. People don't like change. Especially old timers who work their daily jobs, raise kids and don't think they have time to be creative. I think they are partially angered because they know a lot of the information in PT's blog is true.
Now I don't want to insult anybody who "work hard, do a good job, and don’t expect something for nothing" like my man Tertius says, but I don't see anything in this blog that has anything conflicting with working hard and getting something for nothing. On the contrary, the advice on this column emphasizes the hard work it takes to make it and PT's career path shows that.
It's unbelievable to me the amount of negative comments these old timers describe in the yahoo finance articles and it really feels that SOME of them believe in what they write and aren't just writing for fun. As a 27 year old Y gen, I now realize the age gap makes such a huge difference. Its amazing.
Posted by ejohnson on December 27, 2007 at 6:13 pm | permalink |
Erik:
You said "Yahoo is about traffic, but they need to monetize that traffic." I could not agree more. In fact that was my point. Her brand outweighed the traffic. Same thing with Rosie. PT's advice was terrible; and her reputation was even worse. This was especially the case once she was outed as Adrienne Eisen. Yahoo had no choice but to dump her, high traffic or not. The fact is, like it or not, we are often judged by the company we keep. Yahoo is trying to build/maintain a reputation as a credible/professional source for business and financial news/information. We can debate whether or not they're being successful, but the bottom line was that PT seriously undermines that goal.
And here Gen-Y is another lesson – the choices we make while we are young can have lifelong consequences. Once PT decided to establish herself as a professional business/career advisor, she should have buried all the Adrienne Eisen stuff as deep as she could. It completely destroyed any hope of her ever having professional credibility.
Posted by Tertius on December 27, 2007 at 6:14 pm | permalink |
it's not terrible advice, just not fit for yahoo finance maybe? Old man Tertius is just bitter and has nothing else to do at his 9-5 job. Where he gets paid to sit around surfing the web and chat with other losers who make an average of 50k a year with their benefits and great vacation time complaining about their jobs and lives all day and being annoyed when people tell them they have to actually do something like pick up the phone or send out an email.
Posted by ejohnson on December 27, 2007 at 6:23 pm | permalink |
Been there: Done that! I too recall an annual contract that was not renewed. It was a dream job while it lasted. Not really a problem though, because I left a bunch of axx holes behind, even though many friends suffered as well. You will be better off being who you are, and not getting back into the same future you faced coming out of college. You now have a terrific credential to list on your resume'. Perseverance is a virtue; hang in there!
Posted by Laser-Red on December 27, 2007 at 6:24 pm | permalink |
Penelope, I always look forward to your blog. I read my blogs in order and your voice is clear, informative and quirky. I usually read through your post twice to see if I missed anything. Your links are plentiful and worth visiting.
I never understood the Yahoo column anyway except for the good pay. I guess I thought Yahoo was trying to broaden their base by adding your column. And I thought that was a good strategy for them.
I noticed a few comments telling you that you owe your popularity to the Yahoo column. For me, it was the other way around. I read Yahoo because I had visited your blog most days. You seem to be a 'land on your feet kind of girl' so…. on to the next venture.
Elizabeth Partin
Posted by Elizabeth Partin on December 27, 2007 at 6:41 pm | permalink |
Anyone else appreciate the irony of the comments here?
Number 1) Ad hominem attacks on the audience of Yahoo! Finance who are usually criticized for their ad hominem attacks on Penelope.
Number 2) All of you people think Penelope's advice is dogma, but she just lost her job.
Yahoo! Finance is a well respected finance site and the home page of thousands of professionals. We are not all Baby Boomers (I'm 26). Of course the ad hominem attacks are uncalled for, but there are plenty of people (like myself) who debate and debunk Penelope's advice when we disagree with it (which is honestly only like 25% of the time). Every week I read insiteful commentary that addresses the same topic from a different point of view.
Penelope is a human that just lost her job and I feel bad about that. But it is just proof that no one knows everything and all "expert advice" should be taken with a grain of salt and scrutinized. In the accounting world we call it professional skepticism.
The thing is, its hard to give advice that hits every personality type. There is no definition of successful, so of course there is no way in hell of describing the personality type that becomes successful. There are tons of extroverted people who make a killing in sales or executive positions, and there are tons of introverted people who make a killing managing hedge funds and analyzing portfolios. It doesn't mean one is better than the other or one is right and one is wrong, it just means we are different and take different paths to be successful.
I think the target market at Yahoo Finance should have been the latter, and that is what Penelope's major flaw was. Instead of targeting that group, she did the opposite and created a divide pitting intros vs extras, young vs old, etc. How relevant would it be for me to go to a marketing website and address the importance of keeping current with economics and accounting standards?
Posted by Jesse Cline on December 27, 2007 at 7:02 pm | permalink |
EJohnson: "As a 27 year old Y gen, I now realize the age gap makes such a huge difference. Its amazing."
Please don't speak for our generation. You are perpetuating the myth that we are all arrogant and have a sense of entitlement.
When I was 16 I thought I knew everything, by the time I was 18 I looked back and knew I had no idea.
When I was 18 I thought I knew everything, by the time I was 21 I looked back and knew I had no idea.
Now I look back at when I was 21 and realize I still had no idea what I was talking about. Hopefull when I am 60 I will still be looking back like that. Its called wisdom and experience. Don't assume you know more than an older person solely because you read career blogs. A lot of these blogs just say what we want to hear, and it doesn't mean its true.
Posted by Jesse Cline on December 27, 2007 at 7:15 pm | permalink |
You know, getting fired is like breaking up. Sometimes it's because someone did something wrong. And sometimes it's because it just isn't going to work out. There's nothing wrong with the second. Penelope's losing her job at Yahoo doesn't mean she isn't qualified to give career advice. It just means she was in the wrong position, will hopefully learn something from it, and will go on to blog about it and share the lessons. That's where the really good advice comes from – someone learning something the hard way and sharing that experience with the rest of us.
Posted by deepali on December 27, 2007 at 7:27 pm | permalink |
I'm sorry for your firing. Personally I'd have had a very difficult time not kicking the condescending twit who told you to write "womens' stuff". That's disgraceful and he should be ashamed. I hope his wife gives him hell..
This astonished me:
"I don’t think I’m a huge risk taker. I just choose the lifestyle I want first, before I choose my work. "
Choosing a lifestyle is a perquisite of the rich, more specifically the rich who inherited their wealth. The rest of us don't get it. You have to sell a part of your life to get a living. Now I agree that the price of getting a living may be far too high, but it's on a scale with the risk taken. Choosing your lifestyle first puts you on the extreme edge of risky business.
Posted by Doug K on December 27, 2007 at 7:39 pm | permalink |