Stop B*tching.

Three words of advice, Ms. Trunk.

Duck. And. Cover.

:-)

Penelope

Let me preface this by saying that I am a secular Russian-born Jew who is now an American citizen who neither has interest in Jewish holidays or Christian holidays, or any holidays that have anything to do with religion. I like having the Christmas holiday and I consider it something American rather than religious. I think in fact it should be renamed to what it really is “Buy me random sh*t, that I will be returning next week for something I really want, at same time keeping the US economy afloat day” (I suggested this to a couple of marketing folks at my company and they inexplicably shot it down) rather than having it named after you know… Christ.

Frankly I think you just like to complain, like most Jewish women that I have come across. This is a personal observation rather than a prejudice so please keep your pant suit on because my mother is a Jewish woman and as a good boychik I love her very much.

I do think that office decorations if present need to be kept modern secular that can include santa, who has his american roots in the coca cola company rather than anything religious. Definitely no nativity scenes, no menorahs, and no kwanza doohikies.

Enjoy your days off Penelope, because when in Rome… you know the rest.

Interestingly, I am not a Christian (or indeed of any other religious denomination - and no, that doesn’t mean lapsed christian, that means I have ancestors of many different faiths, all of whom lost it a minimum of two generations ago) and I still say that Christmas is not just for Christians. It is a time of year that pretty much everyone in my family has off, and so a great opportunity for us to all spend time together.

Also, as an American, you have a limited amount to complain about. You have one holiday devoted to religion. Try living in the UK, where virtually every statutory holiday is about christianity.

This was downright mean.

Thanks for saying this. I know you will get a lot of flack, with the alleged “War on Christmas” hype. The LEAST anyone can do is stop assuming everyone is Christian or celebrates Christmas or that other holidays during December are exactly the same (”Hanukkah is Christmas for Jews, Diwali is Christmas for Hindus, etc”).

Bah humbug!

maybe you need to move. when i was in new jersey we got off for various Jewish holidays. which was new to me and quite welcome as we moved there from the deep south. maybe the perspective in wisconsin (i think that is where you live) is the all of the US is Christian state. move east, you will find a different perspective there, but you will still get off for Christmas Day

Didn’t you write the exact same blog post this time last year?

I don’t know what it’s like in America, but in Australia and the UK we don’t have Thanksgiving. So for us, Christmas serves two purposes. It’s a religious festival for Christians, and it’s a secular Thanksgiving-style holiday for everyone else. I’m sure to some extent that’s true in America as well, although I can believe that it’s less so since the US is a country that is ultra-sensitive about matters of religion.

I know Buddhists, Hindus, Jews and atheists who celebrate Christmas as a cultural festival with their families. Maybe your family doesn’t but you don’t have the right to say that you speak for all minorities or even all Jews.

I also don’t really see why the majority should be without its cultural traditions and, yes, even religious holidays. The simple fact that Christmas is not observed by everyone does not make it offensive by nature. Personally I would welcome it if we had observed other religious holidays in the workplace as well.

I always find this discussion so interesting. After studying four years of Latin in a public high school, it became blatantly obvious that “Christmas” is based on the ancient Roman’s Saturnalia holiday that celebrated the end of the harvest season. Today, I’m agnostic and my husband is an atheist. He gets the week off between Christmas and New Years because he works for a university that shuts down. I work that week because all of our staff wants it off and there has to be one VP in the office. Basically, we just celebrate the end of another long year (but even that time-frame is based on Christianity). I agree, Thanksgiving should be celebrated more in the workplace. I also find “Happy Holidays” and “Seasons Greetings” cards insulting. Since I’m good at design, I make my own “Happy New Years” cards.

Hey hey you make some good, and moderately flame-inducing points.

You are pretty much right about the Christianity of Christmas. And I’m not even sure about which parts of Christianity feel that their holiday is for them. For example, I grew up in a REALLY Roman Catholic country overseas and to them Xmas really is something special, AND it’s the most consumer oriented holiday in the history of man. It’s both.

#3 point - Xmas somehow IS about good cheer. Somehow. Through all the the shopping, extravagant light displays (or house bling) , and discussions about it’s place in society etc…it’s still about shutting up and buying someone a present and spending time with family and friends cause that’s what happens.

What I would agree with is that most others who are not Xtians DON’T relate to the holiday as theirs, but they do appreciate the time off. Also, they probably don’t complain about not having their own religious days represented in a Govt. holiday. You live in a Xtian nation, they will choose who’s holidays you have.

Happy everything!

” Forcing people to take the day off requires everyone to run their work life around this holiday in a way they might not have chosen for themselves.”

I’d be interested in hearing commenter’s ideas about days off. Should we have shared days off in workplaces? How about Thanksgiving? 4th of July? New Year’s Day? Those are days when many workplaces close.

Oh and by the way, I am not a Christian. I am an agnostic, my mother is a Buddhist, and my father a lapsed Catholic / atheist.

So this statement is just plain wrong:
“The only people who think Christmas is not religious are the Christians. Everyone else thinks, ‘This is not my holiday.’ In fact, only a Christian would feel enough authority over the holiday to declare that it is not Christian.”

I agree with your analysis and commentary on religious holidays being sanctioned and promoted in the workplace. As you mentioned, the perfect solution is to allow the use of personal days for celebrating your personal choices in the practice of religion. Don’t make me have to deal with your issues.

PS I definitely agree with Guy above who says yes to Santa in the workplace and no to nativity scenes.

Just out of curiosity, don’t you get public holidays for Easter as well? How do you feel about that? It’s a more deeply religious holiday for Christians and less of a cultural holiday (despite arguments about its roots as a pagan fertility festival).

I’m sick of hearing Mariah Carey six times a day.

Speaking as someone who has never had religion, I’m not even going to bother enumerating the many ways you are wrong. There’s so very little left of proper Christianity left in Christmas, transmuting as it has into a secular orgy of consumerism.

I think, Penelope, that you’re just trying to be the John C. Dvorak of career advice columnists. Which is okay. I also think, having read you for most of 2007, that you have a pretty hearty disposition toward grumpiness. Grumpy makes for good blogging, so I don’t begrudge you that. But try to give us grumpy for grumpy’s sake. The whole axing Christmas will make you more profitable line is more of a stretch than plausability allows.

My first job had floating holidays which worked well, and I’m not sure why every employer doesn’t do this.

1) I am a Christian of a Southernish Baptisty persuasion.

2) I totally agree, especially with the floating holidays suggestion.

3) The “Christmas Season” (period of commercial religious exploitation) now begins Nov. 1st as soon as Halloween is over. I can sympathize with how miserable and uncomfortable this makes people who don’t celebrate Christmas. I say sympathize because I feel that it co-opts a sacred occasion for financial gain and dilutes the message of the holiday. Thus I am not happy to see a thousand “Christmas” items on display or celebration of my holy day forced upon others.

4) You’d never see Saint Days labeled on a public school mandated calendar in Alabama. That’s papist. (^_~)

5) Caitlin, Easter is always scheduled on a Sunday for symbolic reasons. The Friday preceding it is also a holiday, but is rarely given as a day off unless it overlaps with the Spring Break of the Public Schools.

Let’s seE what Other Random Letters i can capitalize.

Should there be any days that most offices close? How about New Year’s Day? Thanksgiving?

* * * * * *

Those are fine. Great. They are non-religious. The point here is that we should endorse particular religions by giving days off for them at work.

–Penelope

wow. for the first time on the blogosphere I am at a loss for words.

You know what? I had this whole long speach type comment that I was going to post chastising you for being intolerant of someone elses religion and just plain whiny. With a brief lesson on the Constitution. But you aren’t worth the key strokes. You simply aren’t. I challenge you on one thing though: Please post the part of the Constitution that says that church and state must be seperate. Because it sure as hell isn’t the First Ammendment, lady.

This could get interesting - you’re in the right part of the state (of Wisconsin that is) that someone out there might bring a lawsuit against the school for marking those holidays on the calendar.

Then I (in Milwaukee) get to listen to all the political hack jobs on the radio drone on and on about how eff-d up “those looneys” in Madison are for “destroying” Christmas. Thanks for the entertainment!

And in an effort to make this more on topic, a side story on office Christmas decorations: Me and another guy were put in charge of putting together the fake Christmas tree. We emptied the box and were holding the pieces trying to figure how it went together. He looks at me and asks, “Do you know how this works?”

I say, “No, we always had natural trees growing up. You?”

“No, I’m Jewish.”

I completely and utterly agree. In college I was penalized for taking off Yom Kippur. A professor who’d never heard of the holiday and never left the state of Oklahoma in his life decided to give an exam with “no make ups, no exceptions” on Yom Kippur.

I don’t need Christmas off. I need employers and teachers to be reasonable about my need to take the High Holidays off. I completely agree with your idea of floating holidays: plenty of people need Christmas off, whether they’re buying into commercialism or they’re actually getting their butts to church. But I need my day off about four months earlier.

Penelope,

Well Said. Being Pagan I am constantly a little annoyed at the fuss the country makes about the season. My blood-family celebrates Christmas, and I choose to spend the season with them where appropriate. My chosen-family celebrates Yule, so there is a coinciding celebration. It makes things easy for us, but I know a lot of people who don’t celebrate this season at all.

To all of those about to say “The US is a Christian Country,” think again. The United States is a country made up of a diverse religious background, including individuals from all walks of life and religious paths. The various Christian sects are just some of the religious affiliations practiced by people all over this country.

I have no problem with people celebrating their chosen holiday, but I agree with Penelope. We should move to floating days. Government holidays make sense to me as secular days. Religious holidays don’t. — My religion has eight holy days a year, if I want them off I have to take personal time. I don’t mind that because I love to spend the holidays with the people close to me, but floating days would mean more to me.

” 1. ‘Christmas is not a religious holiday.’
The only people who think Christmas is not religious are the Christians.
I was not aware that the jolly fat guy was found anywhere in the bible. Don’t remember anything about fir trees either.

“2. ‘Stop complaining! You get an extra day off from work.’
I don’t want a day off on Christmas. It’s a great day to work”

So go in and work. Just because you don’t like the holiday doesn’t mean you have to screw it up for those who do.

“3. “Christmas is about good cheer. Focus on that and lose your bad attitude.”
I know I have a bad attitude. But consider that the fact that good cheer is mandated in December is also a Christian trope”

It’s also a Pagan Yule, Jewish Chaunuka, Bahamian Junkanoo, Hatian Ganga Bois, and Buddhist Bodhi Day philosophy as well.

“4. ”You can also take a day off for Hanukkah.”
First of all , Hanukkah is eight days. Second of all, the holiday isn’t a big deal to us, except that it’s a way for Jewish kids to not feel outgunned in the gift category”

First, Christamas is 12 days. You get one day off…quit your bitching. Second, the holiday is as big a deal as you make it. When you have kids, it’s a very big deal…when you don’t, it is or it isn’t, depending on how much you like the holiday.

“5. ‘We get Christmas off at work because this is a Christian country.’
People actually say this to me. Every year. I’m not kidding. People tell me that I should move to Israel if I don’t want to celebrate Christmas. Really.”

We get Christmas off because it was declared a federal holiday in 1870 along with the 4th of July because, according to Senator Hannibal Hamlin who introduced the bill, “There are no legal holidays here, and this bill merely provides for what I think are the legal holidays in every state of the Union.”

If people don’t like that you don’t care to celebrate it, go tell them to pee up a rope. Just because 95% of Americans do celebrate it in some form or another, doesn’t mean you have to.

There are so many points to argue I hardly no where to begin. More than anything I’m just sad that you aren’t able to see past the religious aspects in our society and simply enjoy this time of year. Christmas can be enjoyed as a wonderful cultural celebration or as Christ’s birth. Why not just enjoy it?

Thanksgiving is a holiday that is much more important in some cultures than in others. Should everyone be “forced” to take it off? How would it be if, in workplaces that currently close on Thanksgiving, policy changed and it suddenly got more difficult (or impossible) for workers without seniority to take Thanksgiving off?

Penelope,

Your post reminds me of how a non-profit agency I used to work for in a former life handled the holdiday/diversity issue. The agency had a high level of involvement with a local Native American tribe, and some of our employees were members of that tribe.

When Columbus Day rolled around the agency amended the list of paid holidays to include an option to choose either to take Columbus Day off or a Paiute tribal holiday that happened to fall close to Columbus Day.

It may sound simple, but I liked the idea and it helped the Paiutes who worked for us feel further valued and respected. Maybe this is a move companies can set their sights on regarding Christmas and other non-Christian observances.

* * * * * *

Oh. This is an intersting point- about Columbus Day - and one I never thought of. Thanks.

–Penelope

In another vein, if I lived in Israel the coin would be reversed in regards to the workplace endorsing particular religious holidays. Would that also be wrong in your view?

Agreed - Floating holidays are about the only way to keep it fair. Work should not dictate how you spend religious holidays. Not really adding much but that is the only way to keep religion out of the scope when people take off. And of course most people will be gone for x-mas…that’s fine. The office can be closed for business but not closed for work.

Matt

I wholeheartedly echo the Mariah Carey comment! It was not even December and I was sick of that whiny rendition.

Christmas has strayed so far from its roots its hard to argue, its been hijacked by retail companies as a vehicle to drive revenues. Frankly so has Thanksgiving strayed, I’m sure the Pilgrims would be appalled by its current form.

My advice PT is to make lemonade. Its never going to change, so make the best of it - create a Trunk family holiday or tradition, I know many Jews who that do that. Its annoying but basically harmless, no one is trying to convert non-Christians to Christianity - your kids are not in any danger making a calendar. Relax, have a cup of cheer!

I read the article this morning and then have been popping back to check up on the comments, and I can see both sides of the discussion.

However, one of the suggestions that keeps coming up is floating holidays. I haven’t really seen this enacted before, but get the concept, everyone has a set of holidays that they can use for their religious days or otherwise, rather than having specific days off.

I just have a few questions on this though:

1) How about different religions having different numbers of religious holidays?

2) What about support staff. I understand what you mean when you can say the office is closed for business but open for work, but what if, for example, your entire IT department is gone, so you can’t get any assistance. Or if you’re in a production/manufacturing environment, and your packaging team is all gone?

I’m not saying that the floating holidays thing is a bad idea, just wondering how situations like that would be dealt with?

Cheers,

Adam

* * * * * * *

This is a good question. I have found that people are very willing to work hours for those who need time off for religious reasons. For example, I used to work in my food services jobs on Christmas because it was so important to other people to have the time off. And many years there are articles in the New York Times about the non-Christians who work during Christmas at jobs they don’t usually do so that other people can have the time off. I have also found that non-Jews have always pitched in to cover for me when I took Yom Kippur off.

–Penelope

You know what annoys me? When people blame all Christians for everything any other Christian ever did, said or wore to the prom. Seriously.

Don’t look now PT but your prejudice is showing.

Where do your kids go to school? You should make an informal complaint. We never made any calendars with saints when I was a student in MMSD. I remember hearing about Madison being one of the few places that stood up to the Pledge of Allegiance requirement in 2001 just because it included the word god. Things have apparently changed. Of course in NYC, plans are already in motion to fund an Islamic public school so who knows where we are headed.

The more progressive employers give off for Christmas and for other holidays as well. My office was a ghost town during September. I think that will be the trend going forward.

Ho, Ho, Ho My Dearest Penelope,

Yeh I hear what you are saying, but sometimes you really have to know when and what battles are worth picking. My almost 20 years in fortune 100 corporate America, Christmas parties were and are some of my fondest memories. It always struck me funny/sad as to how cheap and lack of good taste some bosses could have. Will it be a ham (to add salt to your already exsposed holiday scars, or a turkey and a cheap bottle of wine?)for the winning employee of the year.

As a single corporate guy, there was no better time of the year, if you couldn’t score at a company Christmas party there was no hope for the living. Whether you are Christian, Jew, or even a not, call it the end of the year bash. Most companies use a calendar year, if not then it’s the middle of the year bash.

I say just go with the flow and use the time to get ahead of your co-workers when it comes to cleaning up your station and be ready when the gates open for the new year.

All the best dear, Blake

I was raised a Christian, and I really have come to hate the modern version of Christmas.

I’ve long had a theory: Workplace Christmas enforcement is, among other things, a Darwinian device to thin the working mom population, because if you can dump a couple of hundred hours of shopping, baking, decorating, entertaining, and cleaning into an already overpacked schedule and survive to see the new year, evidently you deserve to live. Now there’s something to celebrate!

At least that’s how it came to seem to me when I was a young working mom some years ago. Now that my son is an adult, I’ve noticed another grim thing workplace Christmas observances are for: Getting employees to eat and drink too much, so they can look like idiots in front of the boss. Oh, and don’t forget to spend the rest of the year hectoring these same employees about “good health practices” — like avoiding alcohol and losing weight.

Personal days in lieu of enforced holiday “cheer” are a great idea.

This post has shaken me a bit simply because it is contrary to my expectation of your work. In short, you are saying we should not have state sanctioned religious holidays in the USA because of the separation of church and state and the idea of supporting one faith’s celebrations limits opportunity for others. Your argument is a classic straw man.

Many commenters have dealt with the holes in your arguments but what bothers me most is not the logic of the argument but your willingness to discount history. In reality, until the Slavic Jew migrations to the USA, the country was overwhelming Christian. In the past century, the USA has welcomed people of all faiths. I wish the same could be said of the rest of the world.

Your arguments are not with Christmas and you seem to be to caught up in your dislike for American culture more than having an issue with religion. If you work for an organization that will not allow you to have your religious holidays, it is an issue with the organization.

I am so happy that there are many others here who are finally disagreeing with a Penelope post!

Pen, dear, Just don’t celebrate the holiday! And why on Earth would you not want another day off work? As you say, you aren’t going to get much done on the actual day anyway. Practicing Jews seem to get several other holidays off throughout the year that the rest of us do not get, so enjoy those! And you don’t have to take a personal day, if it for religious reasons. Just stand up to the employer. And don’t you also get to go home before sun down on certain days?

So, fire up a Menorah and toast a Snowman-shaped marshmallow.

@ Jason:
“In reality, until the Slavic Jew migrations to the USA, the country was overwhelming Christian.”

Take THAT, Native Americans!

Bravo!

The money quote, IMHO: “The smaller your frame of reference the more convinced you are that the way you do things is the way everyone does things.”

Many (not all) of the commenters excoriating you are the same nitwits who can’t comprehend how the Washington Redskins’ name could offend anyone.

And, judging by the choice of words (e.g. “bitching”, “dear”, “lady”), it’s compounded by resentment that a Jewish *woman* would have the chutzpah to tell Christian men they’re doing something wrong.

I work in a company run by Israelis and we have Christmas eve and Christmas day off. The Jewish High Holy Days are *not* company wide holidays.

Odd, I think. I too espouse the value of “floating holidays” given for religious reasons–say 4-5 per year.

That way, if you want to work on Christmas, and save your day off for your trip next year to Timbuktu, you can. I had years where I had no family and it would have been nice to go into work with others rather than being alone on that day which is so loaded with history and tradition that it almost collapses on itself with the weight.

All that said, it’s important to remember that Xmas off was a big deal when everyone worked in factories for long hours and no wages. A paid Christmas off was one of the key issues labor unions fought for—and that’s how our legacy started.

If you strongly object to the calendar with the saints’ birthdays, consider contacting Annie Laurie Gaylor from the Freedom From Religion Foundation in Madison. She’d be all over it.

Merry Christmas! Now if you’ll excuse me, I’m going to join my office Christmas caroling group. We’re going to serenade Human Resources

It’s hard to be a Jew on Christmas. Thanks PT. Wholeheartedly agree.

Arlene said: I’ve long had a theory: Workplace Christmas enforcement is, among other things, a Darwinian device to thin the working mom population, because if you can dump a couple of hundred hours of shopping, baking, decorating, entertaining, and cleaning into an already overpacked schedule and survive to see the new year, evidently you deserve to live. Now there’s something to celebrate!

LOL! Good point. I am not a working Mom but as the owner of a small business with many obligations, I have cut out the baking, decorating, and shopping. Years ago everyone in my family came to a truce–no gift giving. I send the money I would have spent on giving presents to people who already have everything to a community food bank and charity.

I do celebrate Christmas. It’s always been a family day instead of anything religious for us.

However, I’ve always been aware of how the holiday can make some of my friends uncomfortable.

When I moved back to Colorado from the East Coast, I was STUNNED when the office holiday party (in Northern Colorado) featured coworkers singing Christmas carols (and not just Jingle Bells). It made me really uncomfortable.

Given in the Northern Hemisphere Christmas falls in the middle of the dark, cold and wet winter i think it’s a good time of year to hunker down, not have to go into the office and to eat a lot of carbohydrates.

Also, the twinkling lights cheer up the dark evenings.

Interesting blog post - i’m enjoying the varying views in the comments.

I agree with Don, “It’s hard to be a Jew on Christmas”…more like from Nov. 1 through the New Year. By the time the actual holiday hits, I’m sick to my stomach by the commercialism, hearing the same songs repeatedly, and “Christmas cheer”. People shouldn’t need a holiday to be in a giving and good-spirited mood.

I join in my chosen family’s celebrations be they birthdays, Canadian Thanksgiving, or even Christmas. Though some of them may not be from my culture or beliefs, the holidays mean something to them as does my being there, and that’s good enough for me. And it goes two ways, I bring latkes and matzo ball soup to the table.

I wasn’t happy about having to miss high school classes for synagogue during the high holy days. It would have been much simpler if everyone else had the day off too. Ah well, c’est la vie.

Well, BC just got removed from my RSS.

Penelope,

Thank you for your post. As a Jew, I can not understand how anyone can argue that Christmas is a non-religious, American holiday. It has the word “Christ” in it for a reason! I must admit, I liked having the day off when I worked for someone else, but now that I only make what I bill, I too wish I could work on Christmas. But I can’t work, because our support staff have off. I grew up in a diverse community in a large midwestern city and we had some Jewish holidays off from public school too. These days, I always forget to take work off for the high holidays in time. This is a minor pain, but I want to point out that being in the majority means knowing that your workplace will take the holiday off for you. I do take the opportunity to cover for co-workers, taking emergency on-call on Christmas. I also try to volunteer on this day to help others celebrate. This is the first year that my husband and I have a child and my husband is already getting the same comments from his co-workers that my father used to get, along the lines of “How can you deprive your child of Christmas?.” My husband was raised Christian and is now not practicing. We decided a long time ago to raise our kids Jewish, which means no Christmas tree, no Santa, etc. I seriously doubt our 7-month-old will mind.

As the son of a liberal baptist minster and Irish Catholic mother, I can agree that the Christmas holiday is riddled with religious overtones that can be offensive to those who don’t follow that faith. Also being a former aethist and still being non-dogmatic about my particular faith, I don’t like the constant barage of Christmas. I do, however, like spending time with my family, and basically taking a “forced” day off gives a lot of people I know the chance to do that.

I’m pretty complacent about the whole issue, but I wanted to applaud your courage for bringing up an issue about which you feel strongly, but would also certainly strike a nerve with many folks. You made me think a bit about ways I can be a little more sensitive to others who may not think and believe exactly the same way I do. I don’t understand why some people would resist that so much.

“So look, we don’t want a day off for Hanukkah. Or any other Jewish holiday. We want floating holidays that everyone uses, for whatever they want. It doesn’t have to be religious, or it can be. But we don’t need our work telling us when to take time off. It’s insulting and totally impractical.”

You want holidays everyone can use…therefore those of us who do celebrate Christmas, we should what-not do so, so as not to offend you?

Give me a break! Stop complaining about it. As far as Christmas promoting diversity…first of all, if you want to complain about being in the minority because you don’t celebrate it, think about this: Those of us that do cannot even call Christmas the name it was originally called. We have to use the term “Holiday” so maybe we should say we are being opressed because true Christians who want to celebrate it are being forced not to call it what we want to.

I don’t understand how you can say that you want one type of thing so you should get it and stop those of us who do celebrate the day not to. Isn’t that doing the same thing you accuse us of doing?

Wow, what an interesting and explosive post! You’ve certainly stirred up a lot of discussion. It has been educational to hear from both sides on this.

I will stay our of the fray, my office will be closed this year and every year afterward on Christmas. I guess it helps that I’m the executive director of a large Christian church. ;)

Oh and by the way…if someone who was Jewish told me “Happy Hanukah” I would not be offended. So why is it offensive to say Christmas? The reason “I don’t celebrate it” doesn’t make sense.

I also don’t really see why the majority should be without its cultural traditions and, yes, even religious holidays. The simple fact that Christmas is not observed by everyone does not make it offensive by nature. Personally I would welcome it if we had observed other religious holidays in the workplace as well.

”

Exactly to whoever said this above! I would not get angry if we observed other holidays. Even being a (new) Christian, Christmas is only a federaly observed holiday, it isn’t even really Jesus’s actual birthdate! So why get offended and call it religious!

Just remember the *real* meaning of Christmas - it’s a winter festival that the christians co-opted for their own purposes. When I lived in Australia I couldn’t have cared less about it, but now I live in Europe I love the lights and the celebrating - really brightens up those dull winter days. So cheer up and mull some wine for goondess sakes woman!

I like the idea of floating holidays too :)

Christmas Day and Boxing Day are public holidays, but I’ve never heard any of the non-Christians here complain. We get yummy Indian sweets at Diwali too :)

We have a “Christmas decorating contest” at work for two weeks in December to see who can best decorate their cubicle, but I never thought that it might be offensive to people of other faiths. As an athiest, I think christmas is an overly-commercialised season, but I don’t associate it with Christianity in particular - especially with its pagan roots. I will ask some of the non-Christians here and see what they say.

But what about this post from Ms Rosen’s past:

“Yom Kippur provides a welcome break from work.”
http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2001/09/30/yom-kippur-provides-a-welcome-break-from-work/

“After that, I usually took a day off with all the other Jews. I came to enjoy the Yom Kippur chatter in the office among Jews because during the rest of the year, Jews are mostly secular and so is the chatter. Yom Kippur would be more convenient if it fell on Christmas (everything’s closed, Jews have nothing to do — a great day to fast!) but I realized that the Yom Kippur interruption of work would not derail my career, it would only derail my weekly schedule.”

Perhaps you could allow Christmas to simply derail your day, week, month, life. The choice is yours, America.

Full disclosure: I am Muslim and previously was Christian in name only.

Although I agree with the sentiment on #2, I did try to work one year. I got nothing done. Nothing. I haven’t tried to work on Christmas again, I just stock up on food (since everything is closed) and play video games or watch movies.

As for a day off for Yom Kippur, I picked the job I work for now because I told them up front I need Muslim holidays off. If it is important enough, you can find a job where they will give you the days and not make you use vacation. (or give you so much vacation that you don’t care). Plus if you move to the mid-atlantic states like NY, NJ, MD, and even OH, everyone’s heard of Yom Kippur and it won’t be a big deal.

Penelope:

I have a lot of respect for you, but not this blog post.

Suck it up, just like I have to do when I worked for an Orthodox Jew who made me follow his customs and even had the “Holiday” lunch at a nasty kosher cafe.

If you had not notice many, many more people celebrate Christmas more than any other religion. Last I checked in politics and the workplace, the majority rules.

Stop bi*ching and it will be January in no time!

I think you made some good points today, but as usual you have said it in an inflammatory way. I know this gets more blog hits, but it does not always make your position seem reasonable, and if what you really want is change, I might suggest less “brazenness” in your posts (pun intended). I like the idea of floating holidays though. What I nice idea.

I think it is a great idea to have just a bunch of floating holidays so employees can pick and choose. However, unfortunately, not every company is able to operate in such a fashion. If someone is employed at the latter I certainly encourage them to have a discussion with their HR rep about some sort of accommodation. As an HR Manager I will work my butt off to get someone a holiday swapped out with another day if that is what they want. I’ve done that a couple of times with individuals who wanted to have MLK day off rather than the day after Thanksgiving. Here’s the thing though - I don’t know unless you as an employee tell me!! :)

As a Christian I do not insist upon anything but to live and believe in my own, personal beliefs. I do not insist that you, as a Jewish person, “be happy” as you say in your post and/or celebrate Hanukkah or anything else for that matter. I don’t insist upon parties at work, decorations (anywhere - especially not in my house!) or talk of santa and his reindeer. I hate the disruptions - the inability to run to the mall to buy socks on the 23rd of December without being prepared to wait 4 hours in traffic. I hate that something so sacred to me and my family is “coupled” with retail silliness and a fat dude in a red suit. To me, presents and a tree are an American holiday. But Christmas, the real Christmas, to me that is very, very different.

Just as I’m sure you hope Christians do not lump all Jews together I ask that you do not lump all Christians together.

I find Ben Stein’s commentary on this to be the most appropriate respone to your silly diatribe.

Here is what he wrote a couple year’s ago:

Herewith at this happy time of year, a few confessions from my beating heart:

I have no freaking clue who Nick and Jessica are. I see them on the cover of People and Us constantly when I am buying my dog biscuits and kitty litter. I often ask the checkers at the grocery stores. They never know who Nick and Jessica are either. Who are they? Will it change my life if I know who they are and why they have broken up? Why are they so important? I don’t know who Lindsay Lohan is, either, and I do not care at all about Tom Cruise’s wife.

Am I going to be called before a Senate committee and asked if I am a subversive? Maybe, but I just have no clue who Nick and Jessica are. Is this what it means to be no longer young. It’s not so bad.

Next confession: I am a Jew, and every single one of my ancestors was Jewish. And it does not bother me even a little bit when people call those beautiful lit up, bejeweled trees Christmas trees. I don’t feel threatened. I don’t feel discriminated against. That’s what they are: Christmas trees. It doesn’t bother me a bit when people say, “Merry Christmas” to me. I don’t think they are slighting me or getting ready to put me in a ghetto. In fact, I kind of like it. It shows that we are all brothers and sisters celebrating this happy time of year. It doesn’t bother me at all that there is a manger scene on display at a key intersection near my beach house in Malibu. If people want a creche, it’s just as fine with me as is the Menorah a few hundred yards away.

I don’t like getting pushed around for being a Jew and I don’t think Christians like getting pushed around for being Christians. I think people who believe in God are sick and tired of getting pushed around, period. I have no idea where the concept came from that America is an explicitly atheist country. I can’t find it in the Constitution and I don’t like it being shoved down my throat.

Or maybe I can put it another way: where did the idea come from that we should worship Nick and Jessica and we aren’t allowed to worship God as we understand Him?

I guess that’s a sign that I’m getting old, too. But there are a lot of us who are wondering where Nick and Jessica came from and where the America we knew went to.

Your third point is a bit shaky. The whole Yule thing is pagan, not Christian. The ancient Romans celebrated the feast of Sol Invictus on the winter solstice. When Rome went Christian the church co-opted the old feast day, but it was originally pagan. They made a bigger deal out of Yule in Scandinavia, because with those dark weeks of winter they need a reason to party.

We don’t know exactly when Jesus was born, but we do know from circumstantial evidence that it wasn’t in midwinter. A lot of us would like to give Yule back to the pagans. Unfortunately there is too much inertia in the church calendar, and it ain’t going to happen.

Interesting discussion. Floating holidays could be a good idea. But, I do wonder how the situation would play out at a company where the vast majority of employees want/expect the 25th of December off. Would it really be more cost effective to keep the office “officially” open with just a skeleton crew? If a business tells customers it’s going to be open for the holiday, it would need to have a fairly complete staff to adequately respond to customer needs, otherwise it would be counterproductive to be open. So, would that mean allowing only a few employees the day off so that a complete staff would be present? In many companies that would cause far more frustration and inconvenience than it would relieve.

At a previous job we had the “floating holidays” deal. There were just a few holidays that everyone had off (Thanksgiving, Christmas, New Years) and that was because under a certain number of employees it wasn’t cost effective to keep the office open. It had nothing to do with the owner’s Jewish faith…

Penelope anytime you want to move to Israel let us know. If you just want to visit too :-) We would welcome you with open arms.

Of course that pesky Bethlehem town and Nazareth sort of put a seasonal damper on things and we have all those darn pilgrims romping around Jerusalem trying to remind us that Christians actually should own the place (”go Crusaders!”).

Seriously though, good for you for speaking up and speaking your mind as usual.

The point of vacation time to me when I was a manager was to ensure my workers or me came back refreshed and ready to work again when they needed the time.

When are employers going to realize that a content employee is a productive one even if they take holiday time according to their needs?

Your comment under #5 was …”I tell you this so that you understand what it’s like to be a minority.” Not until you open your mouth by exclaiming what you believe is when you become a minority…how about just being born with more pigment in your skin, being sneered at jeered at not being able to get a job to complain whether or not I want a floating holidays…I’m just glad to live in a country where this topic can be debated openly, publicy w/o living in fear and a state of war outside my door, being killed for sharing what you believe…being killed if I was caught blogging…it’s crazy…this is America…

* * * * * * *

Thank you for bringing up this point of different types of minority status. I think about this issue a lot. Most people think I’m Christian. This means that I “pass” in a lot of instances that people who are minorities because of their skin color do not. I’m sure it’s easier to be a minority for religion than a minority for skin color - I see this regularly because my husband is Latino.

–Penelope

“The only people who think Christmas is not religious are the Christians. Everyone else thinks, “This is not my holiday.” In fact, only a Christian would feel enough authority over the holiday to declare that it is not Christian.”

This is so ridonkulously false, I’m flabbergasted by the false-itude. Perhaps I’m on an island, and this is admittedly anecdotal, but I can name armies of agnostics who GLADLY celebrate Christmas. Not, mind you, in celebration of the birth of Christ, but really as the American Socially Designated Time to Be Nice to One Another (ASDTBNOA).

Further, I have no idea how you conclude that your desire to work on Christmas yields a lack of acceptance for diverse backgrounds. If HR shuts down your work-on-Christmas request, you’re on to something. Until then…:::confused:::

You ask: Why do I have to take a personal day for Yom Kippur but no one has to take a personal day for Christmas?
I answer: Three reasons. Most companies are too small to not offer a standard day off for Christmas, or they’re large and simply behind the times. The second reason is that 90% of the American workforce celebrates Christmas, and therefore expects the day off; that’s too large of a segment of the workforce for a recruiting department to ignore. Third, Yom Kippur celebrators are in the 10%.

You have a bad attitude.

Work doesn’t tell you when to take a day off. The free market for holidays tells you that, of which you are one voter and not it’s authority. You don’t have to celebrate Christmas, and no one should stop you from working on Christmas. I’m not going to suggest do what the Romans do; I will suggest though, that when in Rome, at least quit your bitching about what the Romans do.

Point 5…I gotta say I’m with you.

Thanks for writing this. It’s interesting to hear another perspective, certainly over behavior that most of us would not consider offensive.

My complaint is your business justification: “Businesses that curtail practices that alienate minorities will see growth to their bottom line as a direct result of this action. And besides, promoting acceptance of diverse backgrounds at work enriches our lives, independent of the bottom line.” Do you really believe that a business that advertises it doesn’t give its employees Christmas off is going to experience a business uptick? I don’t see it happening. I would suspect just the opposite would happen. For evidence of this, remember what happened when some companies banned the Salvation Army bell ringers outside their entrances.

As an employee, I would prefer to have my holidays just rolled into my vacation time, too.

Unfortunately, it is people like you who end up messing it up for people that celebrate the true meaning of Christmas. Santa Clause and the tree and gifts are all pagan in there background. Christmas was to celebrate the birth of Jesus Christ. He will be the one you stand before when you die. It does not matter if you believe in him or not. The fact of the matter is you will be standing before himon judgement day.
I just hope when that happens you remember this and then you can be as wishy washy as you want about Christmas.

Wow.
You sound like a miserable, bitter person.

I’m an Eastern Orthodox Christian so I celebrate Christmas on the 7th January (according to the calender used by most of the world today, known as the Gregorian calendar), which is the 25th December according to the Julian Calender (it’s about 2 weeks out due to a disagreement regarding leap years). Hopefully that makes sense, if not Google it.

So I have to explain the whole church-calender history every time people ask why I’m taking that day off.

Once everyone’s finished their Christmas I still have another 2 weeks to wait. Although, we tend to just celebrate Christmas twice, as it’s the meaning that’s most important rather than the day itself.

Penelope- you’re self employed, no one makes you take the day off on Christmas. In fact, no one can make you work on Yom Kippur either.
I’m not black, but I don’t complain about getting MLK Day off. I respect the reason for the holiday, and it’s nice to have a day off to relax. I agree that floating days off would be more fair, but the world isn’t fair. My organization is closed on all national holidays; it wouldn’t make sense for people to come to work.
Why not take a moment to stop and smell the roses? Did you ever notice that the cold winter seems warmer with the lights up and Christmas trees in the building lobbys? That warmth is about being good to one another, and I’m pretty sure that is valued in every religion.

As for the anti-holiday flare, couldn’t you have posted this in, I don’t know, let’s say July or something Penelope. It just comes across as mean spirited.

I don’t sit a bunch of little kids down around Christmas time and tell them that Santa doesn’t exist. It’s just not nice. Timing separates the thoughtful from the thoughtless…

Goodness gracious. Isn’t Penelope entitled to her opinion? I am not offended. I prefer to keep the religious aspects of Christmas out of my office.

It’s funny. I work for the Federal government. According to the Hatch act I can’t even have a calendar from the Democratic National Committee or the Republican National Committee. I cannot endorse a particular candidate or political party in the office. Perhaps the workplace needs to adopt a philosophy similar to the Hatch act.

Reading all these posts I am amazed at the venom. People, get over it. Many of your coworkers feel much the same as Ms. Trunk but won’t tell you.

Perhaps we, as a working culture, should focus more on holidays like Thanksgiving and Labor Day. Maybe floating holidays would better serve the workforce and people’s individual preferences.

Considering the current state of affairs in American I am surprised more people aren’t this vocal about Veteran’s and Memorial Day.

Thank you for sharing your opinion Penelope. I am glad we live in a place you can openly share it.

Thanks for writing this post. While I can’t say that I mind the day off, the truth is celebrating Christmas in the workplace has always been awkward for me, who does not celebrate. I have either faced discomfort and disbelief from coworkers for joining in on meaningless traditions like “Secret Santa” or been chastised for not getting celebrating and joining in on the spirit. These people always overlook the fact that don’t join in on my religious holidays.

Caitlin, we don’t have Thanksgiving in Australia (or the UK) because it’s a holiday that celebrates a moment in American history. And we get other holidays - for example, I’m pretty sure in America they don’t have a day off for the Queen’s birthday. Or for a horse race, for that matter, as we do in Melbourne.

Christmas has become a north american tradition. I have friends who are muslim and they buy each other xmas gifts.I have friends who live in the United Arab Emerates who “pretend fast” during Ramadan out of respect of the culture of that country. I think we worry too much about being politically correct. If we think about xmas traditions that we have here a lot of them are “not” christmas symbols: christmas trees, mistletoe, wreaths, wassal bowls, yuletide…originate from pagan traditions. Santa Claus is the amalgamation of St.Nicholas/Jack Frost/Old Man Winter/Father Christmas/Odin (he had a flying chariot with an 8-legged horse… sound familiar?). I think that christmas is more than a christian holiday but a wealth of european traditions that have survived until modern times.