Here is an open letter to all the parents, aunts and uncles who write to me asking for advice about the twentysomething in their life who is an incorrigible underachiever:
Lighten up! No one should be labeled an underachiever in their twenties! The first thing you should ask yourself is whose standards are you using? This is not the same workplace that existed ten years ago. There are new rules, and you need to stop applying the old rules to someone who has no need for them.
The people who know exactly what they want to do when they are 22 are called, in the land of sociology, "fast starters." And today that is only 12% of the workforce. In general, these people are conservative, taking paths their parents took, and do not ask a lot of questions. The majority of twentysomethings today move back home with their parents , job hop every 18 months, and refuse to pay their dues.
And you know what? These are all good decisions. To you, these decisions might look like decisions that losers make, but the world is different. Do you know what a loser is today? A loser is someone who doesn't take the time to get to know herself. A loser is someone who saw his parents earn a lot of money and not get happiness from it and still deludes himself that money will make him happy. A loser is someone who looks for fame or prestige. A loser is someone who lets someone else tell them what success looks like.
Today success is personal. It's about using the years of emerging adulthood to figure out what works for you. This is time to experiment – try things and quit them and try other things. This is a time to have gaps in resumes, red in bank accounts, and a suitcase packed, ready to go at a moment's notice. These are symptoms of someone who is learning a lot and growing a lot.
Personal growth looks a lot like being lost. Lost is okay. Who wouldn't be with twenty years of schooling and no preparation for adult life? People grow more when they are lost then when they are on a straight path with a clear view of where they are going.
Don't tell me that your kid is a bar tender and will never grow up. Bar tenders have some of the best social skills in the workforce, and social skills are what matters. Bar tenders are not underachievers. Also, did you ever stop to ask your bar-tender kid what he does during the day when he's not pouring drinks? He's probably doing something fun and cool and a little risky that you didn't have the guts to try til you had a midlife crisis.
And don't tell me about your kid who isn't finishing college. No one said college has to happen right away. No one has research to show that if you do college right after high school you will be a happier person. But people do have research to show that if you take time to find yourself during your twenties then you will avoid a quarterlife crisis. So maybe it's okay that your niece is taking a year off of college to travel in Thailand. Or knit sweaters.
Stop judging the twentysomethings. Instead, look at yourself. Why is it so important for your twentysomething to make choices that you like? In fact, the most successful people in today's workplace are making choices that would have seemed absurd ten years ago. And things that are true today were not true ten years ago.
And have a heart. It's not easy to be a twentysomething today. These young people grew up with tons of structure, tons of adults watching over them, tons of accolades. It's a hard adjustment to go into the adult world where there is none of this. The most successful transitions happen when the person making the change receives time to adjust, space to grow, and support for tough decisions.
Have some patience. Most people find what they want to do with their life by the time they are 30. Really. And they are already putting so much pressure on themselves to find a good life. They don't need more pressure from you.









I love your column. You have one of the most contemporary and interesting blogs on the web. Thank you!!! for delving, for not being status quo and for being INTERESTING!! for a change! I think the world is sick of status quo boring
Posted by C on 11/15/2007 at 01:43pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Thank You Thank You Thank You,
I just sent this to both of my parents. This is almost exactly where I am at in life and explains in perfect form what I have wanted to say. Most parents don't trust it coming from their "lost" child. But I am sure they will trust it coming from a journalist.
* * * * * *
Katie, I'm happy to hear you sent it to your parents. This post would have applied to me in my twenties as well. And I would have given anything to be able to tell people that I was going to be okay. But I wasn't sure of myself. And there was no one saying that being lost was okay. So I'm really happy that I can be the one to say it today, for the next round of twentysomethings. It's my favorite part of my job.
–Penelope
Posted by Katie on 11/15/2007 at 01:46pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
You wrote, "Lost is okay." Or another way, "Not all who wander are lost." You'd think more of today's parents would have read Tolkien. :)
Posted by Jay Wigley on 11/15/2007 at 02:20pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Yeah, but. People still need to get a job to pay the bills and get in the habit of working. Lounging around isn't a lifestyle people should emulate.
Posted by JB on 11/15/2007 at 02:26pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I think many twenty-somethings will agree with you, but this 46 year old does not. In your 20's, you should be building the foundation for your career, which includes learning, getting good job experience, and starting to build a reputation. You can't make up that lost time later. You should also start investing money. You are giving baaaaad advice on this one.
(By the way – I really enjoy your articles, even though I am disagreeing with this one.)
Posted by Elena on 11/15/2007 at 02:35pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
What the author is trying to tell the readers is that a lot of people in their 20s (notice no apostrophe) do not yet know which career to settle for, and that is okay because having an open mind and not settling for something for the sake of settling is much more beneficial to your future. The fact that she mentions that people in their 20s change jobs every 18 months implies that they are getting job experience, and exploring your options will also come in handy later. She also tells us that some people in their 20s are "red in bank accounts", meaning they are not in the financial position to invest. Given that you are 46, the author states that your expectations and experiences are outdated, and there are new rules to play by. Success is personal, which means there is no standard definition for it. What may or may not have worked for should not apply to everyone.
Posted by JEM on 03/08/2010 at 05:39pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I wish I could send this post back to my 20-year-old self and tell her to take a lot more risks.
I had the kind of parents that held a professional future and college tuition over my head in exchange for
a) declaring a major before I entered college — journalism — and sticking with it. They wanted an insurance plan that I wouldn't stay in school for 6 years
b) sweat/bottle equity (coming back home on the weekends to watch my brother and sister so my parents could work).
At the time, I was scared to death of having to pay back a bank loan after college so I took my parents up on their offer.
It's been 10 years since I graduated from college and I regret not having the guts to take more of a financial stake.
I not only got the job I went to school for, but I also have been doing the same thing for 10 years now. I'm now in a job that is facing a lot of not-necessarily-good transition and I have no idea how to segue into a new position without risking any financial contribution I have to my new family (husband, two kids).
I could have endured a few "lost" comments coming my way in my 20s if it meant that I was taking a risk and figuring things out without much consequence. Now, I just feel like a lost 31 year old who has to deal with her 20-something choices.
Posted by Erin Hallstrom Erickson on 11/15/2007 at 02:51pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
@Elena –
I'm interested in your disagreeing comment since the things you value (learning, getting good job experience, and starting to build a rep) are generally done during this so-called "lost" period. As Penelope's written before, job hopping is how a lot of people are learning and gaining job experience. And when they go to a new job, their rep follows them and continues to build with each job. Yeah, it's in a slew of different jobs, but so what? Unless you're a chef, an electrician, or a designer, a job isn't exactly a sort of medieval fostering arrangement or apprenticeship. As for investing money, as long as they're investing *something* does it matter whether it comes from one job or 10? All anyone has to do is start early and stick to it. Besides, isn't learning and gaining experience an investment?
I'm not a twentysomething (I'm 38), but in this case the only difference between me and the twentysomethings is age. Since no one was there to rattle boomers' cages about this stuff when I was a twentysomething, I can only be thankful that it's happening now.
Indeed, it's about frickin' time. Thanks, Penelope, for making me feel like avant garde. You rock.
Posted by Jenny on 11/15/2007 at 03:11pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Penelope,
I usually agree with your articles and enjoy your writing a great deal, but here I have to beg to differ.
I'm a twenty-something who has a job, pays bills, and does not live with her parents. I have debt, I have regular paychecks, I live comfortably enough. I travel and experiment with different jobs when I can afford to. It's not an exciting life and I'm not always content with what I'm doing, but I am a heck of a lot happier than my fellow twenty-something sibling.
He dropped out of school and consequently has worked (and been fired from) a string of monotonous dead-end minimum wage jobs. In his search for life's meaning he has wracked up a lot of debt, destroyed his credit, and participated in less than savory "extra-curricular" activities. After a several-year-long stint in which he lived in the middle of a forest with no electricity and no running water (I do not exaggerate), he experienced a personal crisis. He moved back home, where he mooches off of parents who have run out of ideas and motivational statements.
We were both raised in the same way and household.
There is a difference between searching for meaning and purpose in your life, and lounging around at one's parent's expense white waiting for something interesting to happen.
I imagine your post sounds very harsh to a parent who sees no "end" in sight for a child who refuses to grow up and accept responsibility–to a parent who is staring down the possibility of their child living with them for the next 30 years, unwilling to survive on their own.
"Lost is okay"–absolutely. Making mistakes–that too. But remaining lost at the expense of someone else IS underachieving.
I disagree with you in this instance but please do keep up the excellent–and controversial–writing. :-)
Posted by Jess on 11/15/2007 at 03:13pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I'm also going to have to disagree with this one. I'm on the cusp of X/Y (much more Y than X) and know someone who is "lost." He's only able to do it because his parents are willing to support him. That doesn't mean the rest of us aren't growing and trying different things, whether it be going back to school, traveling, switching to a new career, or moving to a new city, but we're doing it in a more responsible way than just willy-nilly following our hearts. You can make choices that are your own but are still responsible decisions. It just means that sometimes you have to wait a little bit until the decision is practical – no instant gratification.
I don't think the resume gaps are good, despite what you and Ryan say; I just moved and was questioned about the one-month gap that resulted while I was looking for a job! Just because it's okay with our generation doesn't mean its okay with the people hiring us. It's also not a time to have red in the bank account. We need to have money to fall back on and pay for that year of knitting sweaters. It would not have been responsible of me to move without having any money saved up for that month or so that it took me to find a new job. You can still travel to Thailand or knit sweaters while holding down a job to pay for it all.
For example, one of my friends took a month off her job and went to Africa to do AIDS work. Three months later she quit her job and went back to Africa for four months, getting a job there and securing one in the States for when she returned. She waited until she had money in the bank and a job to come back to, which seems a lot smarter to me. Sure, she wanders, but I would never consider her lost.
I guess the difference is whether you are wandering and being irresponsible, or not. In some cases, that's in the eyes of the beholder. I see nothing wrong with being lost while still being responsible for yourself, but making decisions that are too impulsive and to the detriment of others is not cool.
Posted by L on 11/15/2007 at 03:24pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I couldn't agree more. At 22, I was more concerned with tattoos and punk rock that my 401(k) plan and career networking. Luckily, I had parents who supported me (without enabling) until I got some experience and figured out what the heck to do without the stress of "getting on track".
Posted by Norcross on 11/15/2007 at 03:24pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I invested when I was 18. My first year in college I put 2500 into a money market account. Money is great. It doesn't buy you happiness. My father told me when I was starting college 50% or more of the people I know do not like their job, they do it for the money. I don't want to be in that 50%. Security is great, but living a life of true happiness is sooo much better.
I graduated from college last year, I could and still can get a nice comfy job living in Chicago, instead of barely paying rent and my bills. The job market is not that bad, if you want it you will get it. I personally would rather live out my dreams while working my butt off at a job that I love that doesn't pay me 75,000 a year but half that.
There are different people in this world, those who are sheep and those who are not sheep. I am not a sheep :)
The only thing that is not right on with me in this article is that I live at home. I would never move back home, too many people back in my hometown believe that money makes happiness. It helps but it alone does not rock my world.
Posted by Katie on 11/15/2007 at 03:36pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Penelope
Most of your posts are spot on but this one does seem to be a bit mixed. It sounds like you are very defensive of twentysomethings' existential angst and you're venting at parents a bit. Are gaps in resumes and red in bank accounts really symptoms of someone learning & growing? I'm not advocating people be overly sensible and responsible but I think twentysomethings do need to try and at least weave a path with some sort of long term theme, even if its a broad one.
From bitter experience I would also encourage twentysomethings not to redline bank accounts. I took on too much debt for various reasons at an early age and digging out of that debt limited my flexibility to take some other business risks.
I think you always need to be able to at least give an elevator pitch of where you have been in life and where you are going. I think a pitch that says "relax, I'm finding myself" won't work. Certainly run your own race in life, don't run other people's life race, but life is short so don't let the existential angst drag on for too long….
Anyway I love the posts and there is always something fresh and inspiring to read here.
Cheers
Jim
Posted by JimB on 11/15/2007 at 04:00pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Unless, of course, it's the hard work and sacrifice of self realization and oneness with the whales of the parents of the 20 somethings that allows said 20 somethings to laze around wondering what tattoo to get next.
Posted by Gladstone on 11/15/2007 at 04:12pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
It's funny to read how people think that success comes from money, I am currently reading Walt Disney's Biography.
In his 20's he was in debt to a lot of people. He had an idea of what he wanted to do but it still wasn't fully established. He had no idea of what he would be some day.
I think that most people in their 20's have an idea of what they want to do but it may not be fully established.
I dont think that this article is meant to say, goof off, get high, drink a ton and sleep around. I think it is saying, most people don't know what they want at 20 years old. We were schooled for 20 years to want what the general population wants. Now its our turn to decide and its soo confusing.
I have finally decided what I want to do with my life at 24. It is not going to be easy at all. I first have to get out of debt, pay my bills on a regular basis and figure out a plan on how this is going to happen.
If I take that high paying job where I can be comfy, that is all that I will be. I am not satisfied with a comfy job.
I think a lot of people out there that settle for a comfy job are selling themselves short. My parents always ask me : "are you happy?", i turn around and go "are you happy?".
Last post.. i think.
Posted by Katie on 11/15/2007 at 04:23pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I really enjoy your column! Great post!
I am 26 and I feel this kind of pressure frequently with my family. This is very encouraging to read.
I am very hard on myself sometimes because I have not found the career path that I want. I want so badly to know what I will be doing, and what I would enjoy doing.
It is great to hear affirmation that it is okay to search, and try different things.
Thank you!
Posted by Jonathan on 11/15/2007 at 04:51pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Once again, the living-with-parents thing is one this GenXer really has a hard time relating to. When I was in my 20s, in a worse economy than we have today, I had no idea what career I wanted to pursue. I quit my first (good) job to travel for a year, did my share of experimenting and self-discovery (and am still doing it) – but the predicate for all of it was independence. My folks were supportive but somewhat controlling, and the only way to really find myself was to get as far away from them and the childhood home as I could. That meant making some lifestyle sacrifices to achieve financial self-sufficiency, but they were ones I was happy to make because of the payoff in freedom and self-confidence that they brought. I have to think it is doing 20-somethings a disservice to suggest that self-discovery should be subsidized by parents, rather than something you fight for and do on your own.
Finally, I was motivated in part by consideration for my parents. They did their part for 21 years, 18 of which I lived under their roof. But they're people too, just hitting their primes in their late 40s-early 50s, and they deserved to have a life again, without me hanging around. This may be the generational divide speaking again, but it's just baffling to me that anyone could find authentic self-fulfillment by treating their parents like hotel-keepers and ATM machines long past the point when they were able to make their way on their own.
Posted by robsalk on 11/15/2007 at 04:54pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
"but it’s just baffling to me that anyone could find authentic self-fulfillment by treating their parents like hotel-keepers and ATM machines long past the point when they were able to make their way on their own."
–quote of the month
Posted by Gladstone on 11/15/2007 at 04:58pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I think that exploring the world around you and getting to know yourself are great goals for your twenties, but I don't think that means you have to live with your parents or avoid getting a profitable job.
I'm a twenty-something with an older twenty-something brother. My brother is currently living with my mom, without paying rent and without a job.
While he may be "finding himself," from the results I've seen, his choices haven't given him any greater direction in life or increased his confidence or happiness.
A little discipline and responsibility won't kill a person, even in their twenties.
I have a mortgage, a spouse, bills, volunteer responsibilities, a full-time corporate job, etc. and yet I still feel that I'm happier and more content with my life than my brother.
Posted by RS on 11/15/2007 at 05:32pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I'm going to graduate from college in the spring and I must say I'm kind of disappointed that so many people take "being lost" to mean loafing around, mooching off parents, getting tattoos (come on!), and sleeping in all day. i'm very lost in my life right now and the way i'm going to try to figure things out is by moving back home, working a full-time paying job for 6 months (and cooking dinner every night when my mom comes home from work), and saving up to travel on MY dime for a few months before making some big life choices. does that really make me a lazy mooch? i agree, some people can be lazy moches, but taking a well-paying job and paying all your bills on time right out of college is NOT the only way to avoid moochdom. i'm being financially responsible by making enough money to finance my travels, and i'm being personally responsible by not putting myself in an unhappy situation. we're the twentysomethings that penelope is talking about.
Posted by Emily on 11/15/2007 at 05:40pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I believe we all learn a little by making mistakes, taking chances and stumbling around for a while. Hopefully that doesn't last most /all of one's lifetime. I don't believe that children should hang around home for many years waiting to find themselves without some sort of contribution to the household they are living in. Getting some sort of job is important not only to contribute to the bottom line of the expenses of the household they are living in, but also to discover what it is like to participate in the workplace world with all of its problems. Learn how to solve problems and how to get along in the workplace. Staying at home won't educate anyone nor prepare them for what they will need to face someday. I don't believe in the sink or swim mentality with my kids – rather I think more along the lines of swim, but I'll have a life preserver handy before you sink.
I have seen many who were not ready for college. I was one who was extremely bored with the grind. High school was so easy I did not know how to study which caught up with me in college. After a short stint in the Army, I had a better focus on what I would like to do and I returned to college, got a master's degree in 15 months and began my next phase. Twenty years later I am finally in a job that appears to suit me well (but only after job hopping for the first 12 of those 20 years). I did not have the luxury of staying with my parents and with a wife and later on kids, it was difficult to accomodate looking for the right job while also being relied upon to be the major breadwinner.
Be willing to take chances. Take a job you may not like and do your best at it regardless of your intention of staying or not. Learn how to get along with others of all ages and personalities in the workplace. You will find that although a person may be completely competent to hold a job, often times it's whether that person fits in with the others in that organization (the personalities, ethics, climate..) that will determine if you will like to work there or if they will like you working there. It's not bad to be lost, just don't waste time staying lost. Do something to make things happen for yourself rather than waiting for it to come to you.
Posted by gt on 11/15/2007 at 06:13pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Penelope -
I enjoy your posts but I agree with several on this board who suggest you've gone a bit too far on this one.
I'm 30 on the dot. I have job hopped (4 jobs in 6 years), am technologically literate (I was tooling around on computers before most people even knew what a modem was – and I mean 1200 baud). I played competitive sports my whole life, while maintaining top grades and getting into (and graduating from) a top college. I held a part time job since the age of 16, even though I didn't have to.
At 30, my career is just now starting to take off. This is because I put in the sweat necessary from the day I graduated until this day. I'm not going to say my 20's were lost – but it wasn't that fun. I moved to a big city where I didn't have a single friend, earned the crappy starting salary and spent many nights playing video games at home while all my new "at home with their parents" friends discovered themselves and went to $12 martini bars. To wit, I did smuggle beers out of the office on Fridays when they wheeled out complimentary carts.
Now guess what? I hit 30, my career is finally moving, and the money is coming in. My curious 'other' 30 year old friends – the ones who were finding themselves – have instead found themselves in debt, and without the necessary skills to pull in enough income to climb out of it. They are what's known today as "wage slaves". It's paycheck to paycheck, and if they can shovel $50 a month into their 401k, they're lucky (I took the old peoples' advice and started on day 1).
Sure, I think it would have been a blast to "find" myself in my 20's. What I found, however, was that I had the ability to tough it out when things sucked (and they sucked, bad), to put in my face time, to earn my stripes, and earn my place in the herd.
So now guess what? I read these blogs, just like our new 23 year old hires do. They think they're fantastic, wonderful souls who don't really have to do what I did. However…I'm better with computers than they are. In fact, I'm better with technology in general…and I can afford to buy most of it to boot. I can afford to go to the $12 martini bar…and pay in cash. The sad fact is that none of them will have my job, while I gun for the guy's job ahead of me. Arrogant? Yes. But like you said, Penelope – I "deserve" to say stuff like this.
By encouraging actual "smart", "hardworking" and "risk-taking go getters" who happen to be in their 20's to take it easy, what you're really doing is setting them up for a not-so-laid back kid in his 20's to walk in and eat their lunch. You're encouraging kids who sprinted through life to suddenly look back and cut the pace to a jog, right when they should be punching through the proverbial wall. Even in your 20's Penelope, to get ahead in your job at least half of your new hire class has to be in the bottom half (just like high school and college).
That's the recipe for failure.
I actually work now with a bunch of "kids" (23 year olds) who are essentially useless. You wouldn't know it from their attitudes, however. You'd think their names were secretly Penelope Trunk, to be quite honest. I do have one kid though – a young go getter. He took out loans to go to tough school, and has graduated in debt. he stays late, and budgets his money in Excel. I feel bad when he can't come out with us for a drink after work, so I cover his part. He's respectful, hard working, and certainly doesn't know it all. He'll be here in 18 months when the rest of the kids jump ship to find themselves again. I'm not exaggerating when I say he's worth 10 of the people you describe in this post.
Anyways, keep up the writing (as if you needed prompting). Though this is my first response, I've read the vast majority of your work and I enjoy it immensely. Good luck going forward -
P.S. It is entirely possible to finish college in 4 years. If you want a 5th year, have enough class to get a job to pay for it.
Posted by Chris on 11/15/2007 at 06:21pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Big fan of Penelope's, but not too much of this post. I don't get the living at home thing either-it's natural to want independence along with all of this self-discovery, and most people will just not foster that in their childhood bedrooms, even if they are paying their parents nominal rent.
Posted by Jennifer on 11/15/2007 at 06:26pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
agree except on the point of "red in the bank accounts"
0 is ok, but I definitely do not believe debt is ever, ever good (except to acheive something like education, a house, and maybe, maybe, a car. though I push back on that too and think people should save for a car vs. on payments).
Posted by finance girl on 11/15/2007 at 07:03pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
The people I respect — twenty-something or not — bounce from career to career and are good at all of them. They seemingly have ADD, but simply excel too much for their own good. They became the VP by thirty and then got bored and started making organic soap for a living. And then sold the business for a few million to go start something else. They spend all their free time reading or doing something active; they are dynamic and unknowable, even to themselves.
I'd juxtapose the above profile with the stereotypically "lost" individual — he didn't finish college. He changed majors four times. He was doing his paper the night before. You get the picture.
One final note — bartenders have no place in this discussion. They work hard. 'nuff said.
Posted by late_twentysomething on 11/15/2007 at 07:08pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Many of the commenters misunderstand Penelope's point. Her point is that parents shouldn't worry about their twenty-something children or try to make them feel bad because they haven't pledged their souls to a corporation/law firm/medical practice.
She NEVER advocates not working hard at your job, even if you plan on quitting. Of course you have to work hard so that you'll get a good reputation and expand your network.
She doesn't suggest that parents have to bankroll a twenty-something while they find themselves. She doesn't say that the parent must pay for this trip to Thailand. Yeah, parents can let them stay at their house, but she doesn't say that it is obligatory. And she never said that the twenty-something should not have to contribute to expenses!
Penelope doesn't say that twenty-somethings should be irresponsible with their money. She just says that they are right for not chasing after the highest-paying jobs. Anyway, even financial expert Suze Orman says it is okay for young people getting into debt while they work towards their dream job.
Penelope definitely does not advocate substance abuse as a means to finding oneself. A pothead or alcoholic is not the same thing as an underachiever, contrary to what many commenters have suggested. Sure we all know of a twenty-something who stayed at home so he could get loaded every day, but that is not what Penelope is talking about.
She is justifying a twenty-something's right to not have his entire career planned by his college graduation and to actively seek to find himself. She is not advocating being a couch potato until age 30.
Posted by Charlie on 11/15/2007 at 07:27pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Fantastic set of comments! I am 48 and all this talk of generations is amusing to me. I identify with the younger set in a lot of ways.
I got my BS in engineering in 82, went to grad school and left after two years burned out. Became a BARTENDER, driving my parents nuts! (Even though they hadn't paid for any of my college.) Went to NYC and was so poor, living in the E Village on hot dogs and reading James Joyce in a cold-water flat. (My this sounds romantic.) I finally ended up in LA and started my career at 28 years of age, switching to urban planning and living off very little money for years. Now I live in SF area and own a tiny house, and am happy. I work in govt (am enganged in my work) and make a decent though not high salary.
My advice to the 20's is to keep your eyes open! You never know when life will bring that next contact/opportunity/interest into your path. And always work at least a part time gig to keep you in the mix. I would not trade those James Joyce and Virginia Woolf days for anything.
Posted by Sifi M on 11/15/2007 at 07:53pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
It's not about taking it easy, mooching off parents, or dropping out. It's about a willingness to experiment, to take risks, and not letting the fear of failure control limit your options.
Posted by Justin on 11/15/2007 at 07:55pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
"Her point is that parents shouldn’t worry about their twenty-something children or try to make them feel bad because they haven’t pledged their souls to a corporation/law firm/medical practice."
Is not. She explicitly says:
"So maybe it’s okay that your niece is taking a year off of college to travel in Thailand. Or knit sweaters."
Puh-leeze. Barf.
OK — let's play "when I was in college."
When I was in college, I worked. Always. I had internships that led to very fruitful jobs. I also worked because I had to pay bills.
Everyone I ever knew who "took some time off" were seriously entitled, usually by their parents. Sure — it's anecdotal. But you don't need a sociology degree to see the intense correlation here.
Undergraduate study is pretty easy, especially compared to the real world. You don't need to take a year off.
Now — if someone, say, took a year off to start a business or such … OK. But self-actualization? I thought that was the whole point of college to begin with (socially, at least)!
Posted by late_twentysomething on 11/15/2007 at 08:10pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Jesus… you've got about 20 pages of comments here, so I'll make this short.
There's a big difference between the way different generations conceptualize success, and ours is no different. Speaking as a 25 year-old, I think we place less significance on having a huge house, getting lots of promotions, and building a big, happy family. For us, it's more of a quest for meaning, of finding the congruence between what we have to offer and what the world has to give.
The only way parents are going to connect with "lost" children is if they understand that and help them get there. Realize that, no matter how well-intentioned your hopes are, your child is feeling their way down a long, dark hallway, and there's nothing anyone can do to turn on the light, nor can they tell you which door to pick. Some kids just get there faster because they're better at seeing in the dark, and they have the courage to open more doors, not really knowing what's inside.
And no matter how much it tears them up inside, there's nothing our parents can do except watch.
Posted by Jon Morrow on 11/15/2007 at 08:12pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Penelope, I do agree with many things you're saying, except that I take exception of her characterization 22 year olds who do know what they want to do as people who "don't ask a lot of questions". I was a starving artist until I was 27 and I had disapproving parents. But I will say that I wish I had a little better structure and opportunities in my life to finish my college schooling along with some post graduate education. I think that trying different things early in life is fine AFTER you finish college. I also think there is nothing wrong with people who aggressively peruse their careers early on.
I also agree very much with what Jenny above has to say.
Posted by George Ou on 11/15/2007 at 08:25pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I'm sorry, but I think this post is crap. There is no constitutional right to mooch off of your parents until you're 30. And the fact there are a vast number of people who HAVE to get a paying job doing something other than bartending does not mean that they are boring drones — it means that they live in the real world and have to eat and have a roof over their head. This is not to say that the real world may not be a harsh adjustment for people who have been overly protected, scheduled, and had helicopter parents, but that points to a problem with how they were raised, and is not an excuse to continue to allow people to live in a coddled fantasy land of "emerging adulthood" until they feel ready to "stretch their wings" or some other Celine Dionne crap.
I'm 37, and while I can completely appreciate your point about trying new things and not letting your job stifle you, the sense of entitlement you feel for having kids mooch off their parents endlessly is simply breathtaking to me. If people want to live in poverty and pursue their dreams, really, truly, more power to them. Bartend as long as you want and live your dream. But 20-somethings are not emerging adults — they are adults, period, and as adults need to be responsible for their actions. We've got 18-year-old fighting wars, and you're speaking of some bizarre subset that doesn't really reach adulthood until a full decade later? I know I'm going to sound like some crotchety biddy here, but a couple hundred years ago people were getting married, working full time, and having babies at 16. It was a small miracle if you LIVED to 30! So this infantile notion that Gen Y/millenials can't be expected to grow up and take full responsibility for themselves until their 30s is just the most absurd thing I've ever heard in my life.
And again, to clarify — living on your own, taking care of yourself, and taking responsibility for your life, even if that means living on minimum wage and sleeping in a tent — good for you. Wandering around "lost" and expecting someone else to support you while you "find" yourself because someone you can't work and support yourself during your "who am I?" crisis — utter crap!
Posted by Leslie on 11/15/2007 at 08:51pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Um, "unincorrigible" is not a word.
* * * * * *
Yeah. Good point. I changed it. Thanks. Better usage: My proofreading is incorrigable :)
–Penelope
Posted by Tim on 11/15/2007 at 09:18pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Unincorrigible? Is that the sort of sloppy writing that results from things being true today that were not true ten years ago?
Posted by Charlie on 11/15/2007 at 09:28pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
As a twenty-something, I would like to express some of the confusion that I think Penelope is referring to in her blog. From the outside it looks like I have it together, and I have a good job, minimal debt and the potential for a great life, but the last 5 years have been tough.
I was a high achiever in high school, and have solid memories of my high school teachers telling me that I could be the first female President if I wanted. I came from a family of 4 high-achieving daughters, and the sky was the limit. I didn't want to be President, but I assumed that I could be the next Condaleeza Rice fairly easily.
And so, faced with abilities, support and countless options, what happened? Not much. I'm just a ordinary person like anyone else. And that has been frustrating to understand. It has taken me 2 gap years and many months in lousy temp office jobs trying to figure out what I am supposed to be, and what "went wrong".
I'm finally coming to accept it all, but I can fully support Penelope's thesis in this blog – our generation has been faced with so much opportunity and so much media saturation, that it can be intensely confusing trying to find your way in a world where there is no path to follow and no right way to do things anymore.
Posted by Kim on 11/15/2007 at 09:35pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
combination of incorrigible and "un-encouragable"?
Posted by Gladstone on 11/15/2007 at 09:36pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
i'm beginning to think that your column is just a list of trolls to get more comments and increase your pageranks.
this is obviously untrue. If no one forced themselves on the road to self discovery and endless pursuit of excellence in their life then they would continue their slump well into their 20s.
What is the bartender doing during the day?
probably sleeping, lounging around, playing online games, watching youtube, spending money and living above their means.
The only way to get ahead is sweat, blood and tears, and by not encouraging this, you're in fact doing a dis-service to your generation.
I'm sorry if this comment seems so acidic, but this sort of mentality affects the United States as a whole. We watch countries like China and India push their youth to excel and then they take our jobs and eat our lunches, while we sit back and mooch off the previous generation.
Posted by badx on 11/16/2007 at 03:51am | permalink | Reply to this comment
I am a 57 year old parent with one son at university -and through him I have my eyes opened to the changing world into which he is emerging – and I have another son fast approaching 30 years,living at home after 6 years (of ups -and -lots -of- downs)of experiencing an overwhelming adult world! I wouldn't mind betting there may be the time (too)fast approaching when I find BOTH of them back on home turf fighting for space in our little semi. Yeah, it may be temporary….
Aint the whole of Life temporary? she groans……. That fact, life is only temporary, is all that propels this 57 year old through each unfolding week. Supporting children on one end, and supporting a remaining parent on the other, is something I have learned to accommodate. It sure aint easy for me in this changing world where all the rules have changed / are changing. Can I not claim 'expectations' for myself at some point in my life before I die?
Sure, I chose to have children, and I consider myself to be a listening (not always, I am no saint)and open parent, and emotionally supportive of their choices. Of course I want both my sons to explore the possibilities for their future, but where do I draw the line with all the financial assistance?
Posted by Mary Pickard on 11/16/2007 at 08:44am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Yay, you rock Penelope! I wish I could send this to my parents, but I think they would be offended.
I'm 26. I had a lot of stress and anxiety when I was 17 trying to figure out what I wanted to do with my life. I took a year off after high school to try to figure it out, then attended college for 2 years. I figured out college wasn't getting me any closer to figuring out my goal and decided to take time off and moved to another country.
After moving, I finally found my calling and started my own business with my husband. I am extremely grateful now to be doing what I love to and feel proud that I took a lot of risks to do it.
My parents don't understand this at all. It's ok because I don't need them to understand me in order to have a successful life, but it's still difficult. I think we'd all like to feel that our parents are proud of us.
Posted by Naomi on 11/16/2007 at 09:36am | permalink | Reply to this comment
I've had the theory for a few years now that my parents and grandparents generations had the "work to live" mentality. This became very apparent to me when my mom stuck with a job for many, many years until she was vested, but came home and complained about how much she disliked it and the people she worked with every night.
When I was suddenly laid off from a job, I very soon after that interviewed for 2 positions. One that I had held for 2 years at another location (it was a franchise) and a new opportunity that had nothing to do with my degree. One night, my mom asked me which one offered more money. I told her that didn't matter to me. Being happier in a job was much more inportant to me than the money. I ended up taking the new opportunity because I knew what the other one was like, which was the higher paying one. It was the best decision I've ever made as I've learned new things, have had a boss who has really taken time to allow me to grow and has challenged me in my work. It's been the best 4 years, which has also been the longes time in one job for me. =)
I was bothered a few years ago that after only being out of college 8 years, I had already been in 4 professional, full-time jobs. I translated this as I didn't know what I wanted to do and it was very frustrating until the final part of my theory came clear. Generation X/Y are "Living to work". Sure I've moved from job to job, but honestly, it's because I'm figuring out at each one what I like and what I don't like. If I'm not happy in my job, I'm NOT staying there. Why do that? So much of our identity is in what we do for a job, not that I think that's right…but that's a whole other discussion…why do something you don't enjoy? Another way to think about it is this, if I'm working full-time, menaning 45+ hours a week, that's a good chunk of my life. Why would you want to dread that from week to week? Time's too precious…move on and find something you enjoy.
I think that no 18 year old should go straight to college. I think they should take a year off, away from mom and dad (which could just mean getting a place in the same city, it doesn't have to be another state), and have some time to figure themselves out–what do they like, try some new things, etc. Then go to college and start working towards a degree. I believe they'd come back with a much greater self-realization of what they'd like to be 'when they grow up'.
I've thought for the longest time that if everyone in the world worked retail, childcare and as a waiter/waitress at some point in life, the world would be a much happier place as people will be nicer to each other. I may just add bartending to that list because it's a great way to grow those social skills needed in everyday life!
Great post and great discussion! Keep 'em coming.
Posted by Karen on 11/16/2007 at 10:20am | permalink | Reply to this comment
I think some people are mistaking Penelope’s blog for a dissertation in the field of Philosophical Behaviorism. I think her points are valid, and meant to be broad-based. Certainly if a twentysomething’s behaviour is detrimental to their well-being, incapable of holding down ANY job, or displays addictive behavior like drug usage or endless mooching off of others, her comments don’t apply, period. These individuals need to visit another blog, or more likely, a psychologist. But those are extreme examples. Most twentysomething’s are average and trying to become above-average in whatever niche they are finding. What Penelope is talking about is Finding The Niche. She’s saying, take some chances, don’t be so hard on yourself, there are other paths than linear climbing of corporate ladders. Chances are, the audience reading her blog and articles are people who are interested in making a difference in their lives and the lives of others and she is only making it easy to forgive themselves for not being perfect and doing things like our parents did. Lighten up everyone!
Posted by Milena on 11/16/2007 at 10:52am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Speaking of bartenders, my current boss tended bar for her first few years out of college. Now she's got a good position with excellent potential. I don't know if it's tied to the skills she learned bartending, but that certainly didn't hurt her career.
Posted by Mrs. Micah on 11/16/2007 at 10:53am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Being someone who is in their twenties, I really identify with this post. When I graduated college in 2003 I went back to being a waitress, which is somthing I had done during summer breaks from school. I loved it!!! However, I constantly received the "What are you doing with your life", "You have a college degree", "it's time to get serious" speeches from everyone I knew. Waiting tables allowed me to be free, make good money, and meet new people everyday.
Since I took the time to figure out what I liked and didn't like, and also took the time to play and have fun, I feel much happier now. I know a lot of my friends (Also twenty somethings), that didn't take the time to do so, and are now stuck in jobs they hate, with little confidence of it ever changing, and feel as though they are already having a mid-life crisis.
Thanks for the post. It's nice to know that others relate. I have forwarded this on to a few of my twenty-something friends. Maybe it will give them some hope.
Posted by Joan Woodbrey on 11/16/2007 at 10:57am | permalink | Reply to this comment
I didn't bartend but I bagged groceries in a Military Grocery store called a commissary during my high school and college days. We worked for tips only (no hourly pay) so it was somewhat competitive. What I learned from that experience is that you can tell a lot from someone's cover just by looking at them and observing their behavior. This was important because some people would tip well and some not so well. Basically, it was a great learning experience in meeting people of all levels of income, race, religious beliefs, etc. Personally, I never backed away from any customer even though I knew some would not tip well. I did have my favorites, however, who I knew would tip well and if I was available at the time, I would try to get their "business".
Don't minimize the importance of bartending or any other seemingly "lost" type of job. Just doing something, especially if it involves working with and getting along with other people will always be valuable.
Posted by gt on 11/16/2007 at 11:12am | permalink | Reply to this comment
There is a lot of truth in this article. The early 20s should be a time of discovering who you are and what you want to do. Not just in our careers but in our personal lives as well. It's hard enough without undue parental pressure.
That said, I do feel sad when I've seen friends and acquaintances my own age (I'm now 31 but it's something I've seen over the past decade) or younger, who seem trapped by inertia because they can't decide what they want to do with the rest of their life. Most of my friends who spent a long time working in bars or cafes did so because it's an easy option (they had the skills because they did it part time in school/college) but they were miserable doing it. If you truly love bar-tending then great, but most people don't.
My best advice to someone just out of school/college who is trying to figure out what the hell they want to do with the rest of their life is to go and do something, anything. We're all searching for the answers but the way to find it is through action then reflection. If it's all action without reflection you get stuck in the rat race then have a midlife crisis. If it's all reflection without action – or worse, neither – you miss the opportunity to grow and develop as a person and to try out different careers and lifestyles for real. Others might brand you as a loser but that's not the point – the real tragedy is that if you are still living this way in their late 20s and beyond 30, you might start to think of yourself as a loser too.
Amid all this talk of generational identity and conflict, I came across this fascinating article from the archives of The Atlantic. Dated 1957, the best line is "parents who lived through the jazz age can't very well forbid adventurousness …" See: http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/195711/sex-college
Posted by Caitlin on 11/16/2007 at 11:56am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Thank you so much for this article! I love reading your columns and this one could not have come at a better time. I'm 27 years old, in a job that I feel is dead-end, and just don't know where I should be. I am the youngest in my department and that makes it hard as well. Keep the great articles coming!
Posted by Melanie on 11/16/2007 at 12:00pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
To summarize Penelope's article: IT'S RESPONSIBLE TO BE IRRESPONSIBLE. This advice is just plain wrong.
Posted by Ross on 11/16/2007 at 12:06pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
There are plenty of twentysomethings who are "lost" and/or living life, but that does not make them irresponsible. If that works, then good for them. I personally feel "lost", but I am not at all irresponsible. So I have to disagree with you.
Posted by Melanie on 11/16/2007 at 12:18pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Penelope,
There are a couple of themes here worth exploring in more detail. The first is looking at how and when a young person in their twenties should have their act together career wise. From the look of the comments above, this happens early for some and later for others (actually for some, it never happens at all – the worst of the situation).
Secondly, the theme of living with parents seems to be a concern for a number of people. I lived with my folks until moving out in my late twenties. Had a chance to pay off bills and get my career going without getting too caught up in the full responsibilities of providing for oneself. But times have changed, and I think there is a totally different mindset from today's generation towards living with your folks then there was 15-20 years ago. Further exploring in this area would be enlightening.
Lastly, you are always going to have people who know what they want to do early in life and others who don't have a clue even into their 40's. But time is not always on our side, and there seems to be a great deal of regret stories out there across all generations. The last theme to look at is how one really identifies what would make that person happy career-wise? And how does the money aspect work into that happiness? Sometimes, following your dream makes you a ton of money and you feel guilty for making so much at doing what you love to do (sports stars, actors/actresses) and others do what they love doing but it doesn't pay squat (teachers, volunteers, ministry).
Life is tough enough for all of us. It's no surprise that only half of us are happy with our careers, that the divorce rate is 50% and that the pressure is so heavy on our youth.
By the way, a good read for getting into the minds of young people would be a book titled "Hurt". It's a good read for any parent or person who works with youth in understanding the pressures put on adolescents.
Posted by Alan on 11/16/2007 at 01:10pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I am 40 and keep seeing some repeating themes here.
I don't believe this generation is basically different. While everyone is unique… Gen Y, like Gen X, and those before us: some individuals followed the path of parents and some did not. Some are "lost" and some are not.
What I do see is a basic lack of "leave the other person alone!"
Some parents want control, some parents want to spare pain, some want to share experience; this leads some parents to see their children as underachievers and to want to help them achieve for the future. Some children who are thought to be "lost", either are or they are gaining valuable experience. Some may actually be lost AND gaining valuable experience. Either way, parents please leave your child alone. Let them find their way or lose their way on their own. Give them the opportunity to fail or succeed, save or spend, and gain experience all along the way.
How about the kids doing the same? Please, leave your parents alone. Move out! Find someone else to find your way or lose your way with. Create an opportunity to fail or succeed, save or spend, and gain experience all along the way towards a fulfilling life and career.
Let you parents do the same. They now have to find their way or lose their way on THEIR own. Give them the opportunity to fail or succeed, save or spend, and gain experience all along the way towards the end of their career and into retirement.
They did it for you, when they had to; they might be letting you do it for yourself; and they now have to do it for themselves.
"Leave the other person alone!"
Posted by Michael Cortes on 11/16/2007 at 01:15pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
A couple of points, all kidding aside:
1) We live in an affluent society. We can afford more indecision and pursuit of happiness than previous generations could. Until very recently, you could buy a house with a dog's breakfast for a credit rating, even. When you don't have to worry about survival itself, you start to worry about more trivial things. Am I happy? Am I popular? Do I have enough friends? How can I have a cottage in Tuscany and not have to work by the time I'm 30?
2) Starting a career path in one's 20's doesn't preclude changing careers later. I got a suit and tie job with an international car rental company at 27. Didn't know what I wanted to do in life, liked cars and travel, so what the heck? It's a job, experience. I did it for four years, did well, and learned a lot. I decided to pursue computers and the Internet. So with no technical education or experience, I pitched myself freefall into computers. Worked at my cousins' coffee house chain for a year, as their computer boy and driver. That got me enough knowledge to get an entry-level tech support job at an ISP. Within a year I was back in management, now working in the Internet, which I do now. It still doesn't satisfy my every need, so that's why I play the trumpet, and work on writing projects. I never stopped working all this time, though.
3) you can stay productive, and contribute to society and the economy and still pursue goals and dreams, without being irresponsible.
Posted by Gladstone on 11/16/2007 at 01:43pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I wish i'd have been lucky enough to have had parents who could have supported (both emotionally and financially) my being "lost" for a while during/after college. My parents had zero money to send me to college, so I was saddled with a huge amount of student loan debt. I felt huge pressure to get out into the workforce and get a job after college. What I was schooled to do (journalism) would have barely paid for meals, let alone rent and loans, so I had to get into other jobs. Luckily it tumbled me into computers (where I am today) so that helped. But I would have loved to have been able to pursue journalism as a career to see where it would have led without the spectre of debt.
Posted by Charlene Jaszewski on 11/16/2007 at 01:49pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Penelope, you're listening to Rebecca way too much.
Ten years ago, it wasn't normal for a twenty-something to know exactly what they wanted to do with their life. Most people don't even understand what it means to work until reality replaces total idealism between 25-28. The only 25-28 year olds that are in total control are the ones that start their own business. While that's great, it doesn't really define today's workforce. I quote an old saying, "The more things change, the more they remain the same". Ben and Jerry tried to buck the system by only paying the CEO a small salary and soon realized their ideal's weren't going to fly.
Posted by Allen on 11/16/2007 at 03:30pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I think it's important to point out that a lot of the "finding yourself" that happens in our twenties is a direct result of our adult responsibilities. I had no idea what I wanted to do when I graduated from college. Instead of moving back in with my parents and bartending, I took a professional job with benefits and a decent paycheck. I wasn't overly thrilled about it, but I needed to pay the bills. It was the best decision that I ever made.
That job taught me so much about what the "real world" is all about – good and bad. It exposed me to a variety of career opportunities that I didn't know about in college, and it taught me really valuable lessons about myself. I stayed at that job for two years. Since then I've changed jobs three more times after a couple of years at each. All have been different, and I've moved up the ladder in each case.
And even though I was working full time in professional jobs, I still had time to find myself outside of work. I traveled, I went back to school, I moved to a different city, I tried new hobbies, I made new friends, I started volunteering, etc.
My point is that you don't know unless you try. You're not going to learn anything about yourself by being paralyzed with fear about the real world while living in your comfort zone. Does the real world suck sometimes? You bet. Can you get through it? Of course. And you'll be a stronger and happier person for it.
I don't understand the mentality of needing to find yourself before "becoming" an adult. Being an adult means learning from your mistakes and making wiser decisions because of them. There aren't many things in life that can't be changed. Fish or cut bait.
P.S. I was a recruiter in one of those three jobs. And contrary to the advice Penelope gives in this blog, gaps on your resume are never a good thing.
Posted by Jen L on 11/16/2007 at 04:41pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I dunno, I have mixed feelings on this.
OTOH I agree that career paths have changed, and that it's a good thing when you're younger to take the time to explore your options, rather than locking into a specific career/life plan too soon.
But there is something to be said for the skills and mindset that comes from standing on your own two feet, which includes having to figure out how to deal with tough life stuff (like a crummy job) without the easy safety net of Mom's and Dad's $$.
Aside from opinions pro/con — it'd be interesting to look at some of the research on this. Here's a couple of points that came to me — would love to see others:
The "Millionaire Next Door" authors said that their research showed that adult kids who received ongoing financial support from their parents were less likely over time to achieve independence. It seemed to be easy psychologically for some adult children to develop a "temporary" financial dependency that became permanent.
There's also a regular study (I can't find a link though) where high school kids are asked to estimate how much money they'll earn as adults, and the kids' numbers are out of sync with market reality — lots of kids think they'll be making $100K+ when the US median household income in 2006 was $48k. It's fine for kids to be ambitious — the question is whether they've being totally unrealistic, and then when adult life hits them, they maintain unrealistic expectations by continuing to tap their parents for $$$.
Now when we talk income, it's just money, and the quality of life is about more than money. But I can see how all these issues — high expectations, willingness to rely on parents $$, etc — could, for some young adults, turn into an ongoing problem rather than being "just a phase".
(And it's true that there are people in every generation who "fail to launch" — so that isn't just a Gen Y specific issue.)
Posted by Mary W on 11/16/2007 at 06:15pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I'm 25, with a bachelor's degree, a full-time job (going on 3 years), a 401(k), benefits, loans, and bills.
And I feel lost.
What's worse, because of that job, I don't even have time to look around and explore. I can't find myself because I feel so drained at the end of each day. I'm not even finding time to take care of my health. Lost? Maybe a better word is "trapped."
Two weeks of vacation per year is nowhere near enough. I want to travel. I want to read all the books I've bought over the past few years that I haven't gotten around to yet because I haven't had the time. I want to learn new things, meet new people, and really challenge myself. And I don't want to wait until retirement to do any of that.
It seems like the corporate workforce offers none of the challenges I'm looking for. (The biggest challenge so far seems to be brown-nosing and networking.) I don't really see marketable skills as a means to anything except more money. And yet it seems like the majority of people need to play by "the rules." I don't want to have a gap in my resume. I don't want to do anything that would make me less likely to find gainful employment. I've considered taking some time off and trying to figure things out, even just to travel across the country, but it's this "common wisdom" that is holding me back.
So… I'm not sure what to do. With events from this past decade (like 9/11 and Iraq), I wonder if there is a renewed sense of wanting to enjoy life now while you can, since there's no guarantee we'll even live to see retirement. At the same time, I still want to support myself both now and in the future, especially if I live to see retirement.
Seems like quite a balancing act for a twentysomething.
Posted by Jeff on 11/16/2007 at 09:50pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I think the question to ask is whether this journey of "self discovery" will continue, if parents stopped objecting and also in the same breath, withdrew the privileges of rent-free boarding and free dinner, and sub-let the 20-something's room to somebody else, thus removing any possibility of reneging on these decisions.
It may be endlessly fascinating to self-discover in privilege, less so when you have to cosy up to the homeless sleeping under the bridge (after all, couch surfing will also end some time; why should friends let you do this, on their dime and time?)
Those inspired by the Buddha may do well to remember that he was born a prince and was sole heir to a prosperous kingdom. If his experiments had failed, he had 'back-up'. Every 20-something needs to consider his or her back-up.
Oh and by the way, a 40-something friend, whose widowed father was remarrying, selling up and moving states, said to me: "He is selling my inheritance". I had to remind her that calling his house her inheritance presumed many things and expressed a repressed hope of his death.
So there are people who are their own persons, respectful of parents and their own duty to parents, but not content to mooch. And there are some who will expect their entitlement way late in life. I would not advise any 20-something or their parents to encourage the latter. Parents hopefully have the ability to distinguish between the two.
Posted by Shefaly on 11/17/2007 at 03:32am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Penelope Trunk has found that recycling about 5 different ideas she created years ago and trolling for pagehits is a winning formula. I guess good for her, bad for the sheep that follow her "advice". India, China and the rest of the emerging world are going to eat this generation's lunch (unless Mommy and Daddy continue to provide it, of course).
Pure "unincorrigible" (sic) dreck…
Posted by mark on 11/17/2007 at 09:39am | permalink | Reply to this comment
I sent this to a close friend who has turned 30 and is feeling very down. I think she wishes her dad read it.
As a 42 year old, I can vouch for the fact that I was pretty lost in my 20s and that I am having a bad time right now.
But it's important to realise that people ultimately cannot be made to succeed on a sustainable level. It comes from within and luck. The latter tends to happen when you're ready for it, it seems to me.
Penelope, you've been candid about some problems in your life lately. But the effect of posts like this on some readers will be profoundly positive. I hope this helps.
Posted by Antoine Clarke on 11/17/2007 at 10:09am | permalink | Reply to this comment
@ Mark:
"India, China and the rest of the emerging world are going to eat this generation’s lunch.."
And guess who is providing the lunch-in-a-box and dinner, not to mention doing laundry and keeping their room clean for them? Yes, their moms!
Indians and Chinese progeny stay at home as long as they can – and if you believe Murakami, so do the Japanese youth (ref: Underground) – and if they are male, they get to bring their brides home too… :-)
Posted by Shefaly on 11/17/2007 at 05:43pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
@ Jeff
(Nov 16 2007)
I've held a few less-than-ideal full-time jobs where I was working for the weekend (and mainly, the money). To a large extent, I see where you're coming from.
Three words that will save your sanity:
Get a hobby.
Your post makes it sound like you have very little to look forward to — you're living to work, not working to live. Do something creative, train for a marathon, learn an instrument. Something to give you a mental escape while you work on unlocking those financial shackles.
Posted by David Fallarme on 11/17/2007 at 08:57pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I started in the corporate cube world at 18 while I went to school at night. Made more money (for me at the time) than I knew what to do with…and was broke and burnt out by 21. Had I have done a little searching at 18, instead of trying to do it all at the same time, who knows. All I know is tht I had to bust my butt to repair the damage that I caused from 18-21, since I just wasn't ready to be a 'real' adult yet.
My parents aren't rich by any means (minister and public school teacher), but they've been able to get along just fine, including raising 3 kids. They knew that family, emotional support, and overall encouragement meant a lot more than stroking a check.
And while yes, I've spent a considerable amount of money on tattoos (over $3,000), I've also spent 5x that on my 401(k), Roth, and my son's 529 plan. And at 27, I'm much happier than I've ever been and I have an idea of where I'm going. And the only money my parents pay out anymore is holiday gifts for my son.
Posted by Norcross on 11/17/2007 at 10:34pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I do feel bad for Penelope. She is miserable in her real life, and seems to create this fantasy life of "new rules" that simply do not exist. I completely agree that she recycles the same half dozen or so ideas over and over again, without any real research or demographic proof that these "rules" exist.
What really blows my mind is that she, and her commenters, frequently wax on about how this generation of 20-somethings is changing the world with their new ideas and ways of interacting in the business.
In reality, if you really want to chop things into generations, "Generation X" has contributed to the biggest technological and workplace changes….ever. Who created Google? Blogger/Typepad/MovableType? Yahoo? MySpace? Flickr and most of the early social networking, Web 2.0 apps? Yes – Gen X'ers. And, for the most part, the people behind these were in their 20's when they created them.
My husband and I are in our mid 30's and have been married for 15 years. He has been with the same company for over a decade, but has consistently "job hopped"….right up the corporate ladder. (I admit to some astonishment at the casual attitude taken toward job hopping from company to company, and then complaining about lack of vacation time, etc. There are many benefits that accrue over years of service – my husband was up to 4 weeks of vacation after only five years with the company, and now has nearly seven weeks paid vacation every year.)
I really hope Penelope is a one-off anomaly when it comes to dispensing advice to the current generation of 20-somethings. I read Newsweek cover to cover every week, browse numerous blogs, and have had experience both in the corporate world and the volunteer world. I have never seen any of the "rules" she espouses in action.
* * * * * *
I like the part of this comment that intimates that Gen X are the real revolutionaries. I think this is probably true, and I've written about how I think Gen Y is inherently conservative. I like the list here of all the Gen X-er startups. Makes me proud since I'm an X-er.
The reason you have not seen any new rules in Newsweek is maybe because of issues like last week's: The fortieth cover story about how great 1968 was. What's up with that? Why is this news? I don't get it.
Another thing I don't get. Why did you use a porn site as the URL for your comment? I don't recall anyone ever doing this on Brazen Careerist….
-Penelope
Posted by Pink on 11/17/2007 at 11:38pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I wish I had the opportunity to search for my true calling before growing old at 19, and accepting my responsibilities like a man.
I have seen the benefits of exploration first hand, in the lives of younger friends and their supportive parents. The outcome is usually a better prepared, mature, wizened or at least somewhat sane thirtysomething, with fewer regrets ahead of them.
Posted by Dale on 11/18/2007 at 01:11am | permalink | Reply to this comment
@ Jeff:
I re-read your comment after seeing David Fallarme's note for you.
You say: "With events from this past decade (like 9/11 and Iraq), I wonder if there is a renewed sense of wanting to enjoy life now while you can, since there’s no guarantee we’ll even live to see retirement. At the same time, I still want to support myself both now and in the future, especially if I live to see retirement. Seems like quite a balancing act for a twentysomething."
Terrorism at home is new to Americans (this comes from someone who grew up in India – terror to the east of them, terror to the south of them etc – and learnt the word 'assassination' at the ripe age of 7) but the world over it has been a reality for decades. It is the 'response' that counts and that will carry you through. Oh, and I have worked since I was 23, and I left India to work abroad too not in the welcoming American context but in the not-so-welcoming European context. Life is as hard as we think it is.
David has given you some good advice. But what the uncertainty of life means is that one lives everyday as if it were his last, and not to be dead before one really is.
My suggestions would be:
1. Try and reflect on the essential and the non-essential part of your work. Cut the latter out gradually; it is the thief of time.
2. Brown-nosing is everywhere; but have you wondered how some people just do not do it but still are successful? Find somebody like that whom you admire – not necessarily within your company – and ask them if they will mentor you.
3. Everyone has 24 hours so do you. Find time to read. Things are happening around you at a rapid rate. If you socialise outside work and read, you will see/ visualise yourself in other alternative contexts and settings. Recover your power to dream for yourself.
4. If you feel trapped, ask yourself why? Do you like the security of money? Do you like to tell people you have a mega-corp job? Or are you just a creature of habit and it is simple as that?
Knowing oneself is the first step in nearly all endeavours in life. I found as much fun in my corporate jobs (job-hopping in the most unusual way, being part of a senior management talent pool which took high risk/ high return assignments) as I do in my own work now. I always made time to read, and to reflect on the day before it ended.
Good luck. But at 25, you really should not be so down.
Posted by Shefaly on 11/18/2007 at 03:11am | permalink | Reply to this comment
@ Jeff
You wrote: "What’s worse, because of that job, I don’t even have time to look around and explore."
Then why are you wasting time posting a long post to Penelope's blogette?
Posted by Ross on 11/18/2007 at 12:09pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Penelope,
Great post. I sent it to my kids, both of whom are in college.
I have to remember that I don't have the right to deny them of the lessons they're meant to learn. Thanks for the reminder.
David
Posted by David B. Bohl at SlowDownFAST.com on 11/18/2007 at 08:03pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Thank you so much for this post Ms. Trunk. I thought when I neared the end of my college experience I would know exactly where I was going. 17 days to go and I still don't know where I'll end up. I take comfort in knowing that not all people are "fast starters."
Posted by Amy on 11/18/2007 at 08:30pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Maybe you should be sending a post to the parents about not coddling their children and watching every move they make. There is responsibility that needs to be taken and I think that parents don't let their children take responsibility. I see parents saying ohh that is okay and trying to get their kids out of messes. I know one young Y couple. They built this huge house and wanted all of the things they never had – they grew up on farms. Both had good jobs but the husband realized he did not have enough money and embezzled money from his company. Somehow his family got involved and paid off the money. He did not have to go to jail or repay his family. This is an everyday occurance in this world. I am not so sure I agree with the Y's attitude, it is almost like the family or world owes them the ability to do things their way.
Posted by Jennifer on 11/19/2007 at 01:35pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
The "1968" thing is because the Boomers who run these magazines tend toward self-absorbed navel gazing. It's not every week, but several times each year they do focus on "Boomer" issues – I imagine it's because they know their demographics and target stories toward them.
Sorry about URL – I had no idea about "pink.com". I do not use my real email address in blog comments – it seems like a silly way to open myself up to much unwanted spam. What is the purpose of requiring email for comments, if any random email address can be used? Unless some kind of verification process is used, it really does seem pointless to "require" an email address. Obviously, if a commenter wants to engage in private dialog, leaving email is necessary. Otherwise….???
Posted by Pink on 11/19/2007 at 02:47pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
This article is extremely relevant to my life, and I think it is true. Many of my friends have ventured into the real world with no idea what they want to do in the future. I think it is rare to find someone who does know what they want to do directly out of college. A majority of my friends who are graduates have plans of saving money and traveling. No one wants to move directly into the work force and sit in an office for the rest of their lives. This is why many college graduates job hop and seem to be putting off their career because they are putting off their career. Twentysomethings are concerned with happiness more than they are concerned with money and I don’t see anything wrong with that.
Posted by Matt on 11/19/2007 at 07:20pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I love this article, and feel better about my place in the career field after reading it. 60 minutes did a piece on the Millenials not long ago, and made us sound like leaches. I know I have made more than a few mistakes when it comes to what I'm doing with my life. But, I'm trying to fix them, and I'm trying to get to a better fit, and a more stimulating environment. I sure wish more people understood that.
Posted by Megan on 11/20/2007 at 10:56am | permalink | Reply to this comment
@Jeff
I think your post has elicted so many replies because of how well you described your situation. You seem to be a talented writer. Take Shefaly's good advice and hang in there.
Posted by Sifi M on 11/20/2007 at 01:39pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Life is not about finding yourself. Life is about creating yourself. You can't create yourself living with your parents.
Posted by Ross on 11/20/2007 at 06:44pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Hey! great blog… Check out my own blog Chest Acne Witch Hazel action project.
Posted by Andy on 11/21/2007 at 01:22am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Interesting post, but more interesting are the comments. Are twenty-somethings lost or free? Taking their time or wasting time? The idea of not taking ourselves too seriously in our twenties is a good one, but it can also be an excuse used to postone growing up. I definitely think the path to adulthood is less linear than ever, but we should also be careful not to legitmize my generation's reluctance to put forth some old-fashioned effort.
Posted by Diane Gaines on 11/25/2007 at 06:55pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Let me guess…….your not the parent of a twentysomething. Only someone who doesn't have a twentysomething child would write…"The majority of twentysomethings today move back home with their parents , job hop every 18 months, and refuse to pay their dues.
And you know what? These are all good decisions. To you, these decisions might look like decisions that losers make, but the world is different. Do you know what a loser is today? A loser is someone who doesn’t take the time to get to know herself."
Good decisions? Certainly you jest! Moving home is a good decision? For whom? The world doesn't give a rats farthing if you find yourself and neither do your parents. If you want to find yourself, might I suggest you do so on your own dime, not your parents. A loser is someone who at twentysomething still believes that his/her parents whould be financing a journey of self-discovery. If you want to find yourself, and can not imagine yourself doing so while paying your dues, than do it on a minimum wage burger fippers wagers……..because, the wonderful comfortable home your eyeing, was paid for by the folks who delayed their own journeys of self-discovery to pay their dues, and are now fruits of their labors.
* * * * * * *
Hi, Karen. In the text you quote above, there are three links. Each of the links contains interviews with sociologists who are doing reserach in how the twentysomethings are doing. And the sociologists report that those are positive actions for people facing the unique challenges of today. Maybe you should click the links.
Penelope
Posted by Karen on 11/30/2007 at 10:32am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Ahhhhhhhhhh there is the rub Penelope. The sociologists report that these are positive actions for PEOPLE FACING THE UNIQUE CHALLENGES of today. Does that seem to you to be a bit narcisistic on the part of the twentysomethings? In none of the links does it address how these are really great moves for their baby boomer parents. Contrary to what they might believe, the belly buttons of the current twentysomethings is not the very center of the universe, and just because something works out best for them, does not make it the very best decision for everyone. Isn't that the argument the twentysomethings are haning their parents with when it comes to damage to our environment? Isn't the fact that it worked for the boomers didn't make it the best choice for our children, the argument sociologists used to convict boomers when the divorce rate soared? While the comforts of the home your parents supplied is certainly more comfortable, there is a great deal to be said for the motivation that comes with having to pay your own bills. Sorry Penelope, but if my children want to spend time getting to know themselves they have four years of parental supported college time in which to do it, after that kiddos, you have your parents unconditional love and your own dime and time on which to explore your inner being. It is not kind to do for our children what they can and should do for themselves.
Posted by Karen on 12/02/2007 at 12:42pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Karen.
Did you just realize that you said that it is not kind to do for our children what they can and should do for themselves yet just before that said that you were supporting your kids through college? Hello, they can and should do that for themselves. You are fooling yourself.
Posted by Stevie on 12/02/2007 at 04:39pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
your claim that "social skills are what matters" is worrisome.
There comes a point where all the social skills in the world are effectively meaningless unless there is some significant substance beneath these skills which makes its way to the top.
Image is NOT everything, despite the rhetoric you have adopted as your own.
Posted by disturbed on 12/10/2007 at 07:56pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Love it. You are so right on.
Posted by Duff on 12/21/2007 at 04:08pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
thanks for that article. i'm a twentysomething who underwent a big lifestyle change last year. my parents are very understanding and supportive of how i'm just bumbling around at the moment. i think this article does me more good than it would them. it's like a gentle map of the territory, and feels good to read. :) thanks again.
Posted by sandy on 12/30/2007 at 07:08am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Quite obviously, everyone has too much money.
Posted by Cinthia on 01/11/2008 at 08:55pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
"The struggles and suicides of young (wo)men with not enough to do."
Posted by Vi on 02/24/2008 at 03:56pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
"And the comments of people who haven't a clue."
Posted by Doubleyou on 04/05/2008 at 05:02am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Hey, everyone. It was great reading this article. I personally do not feel as though this article was written to encourage young adults to live at home and leech. I think it was meant to ease our worries and our feelings of " what am I doing with my life". There is so much pressure out there, and this article is a way to say" loosen up a bit". I enjoyed the humor of it and I enjoyed the Optimism. I am 22 years old. I graduated highschool, dinked around in community college before deciding to go to trade school. I graduated and started working in a field in which.. I had my heart set on since Highschool. I Started at the bottom of the Dental Field as an Assistant. I had a bad first job experience and then job hopped to a few more jobs in that same field; all within a year or so. Each office I landed seemed to remind me of highschool all over again. I am talking about adults( co-workers) tattling on one another, sabbataging and gossiping. I personally do not like playing " office politics". Soon, I realized I didn't like being a Dental Assistant anymore.(due to: under appreciation,being the office work horse and, no professional growth ) All my negative work experience made me resent the field I planned on being in ( since highschool). Now, I too am lost.
Posted by smilez05 on 04/12/2008 at 07:35pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
incredible post, loved it(that it beeing 22 myself)
Posted by Michael on 06/02/2009 at 05:51pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
While I agree that your 20's should be a time of exploration of both the world and yourself, I have to disagree with the irresponsible way that the author painted it. As several posers already stated, you can travel, do something you love, take time off, pursue your passions but in a responsible way. I have worked with and personally know many of these so called "lost twenty something’s", many of them hitch hike around the country sleeping on strangers sofa's if they are lucky, under a bridge if they are not. They can be seen begging for money on the downtown streets or maybe just a cigarette. They have a way of rationalizing just about anything, much the same way you did in your post.
Flash forward 10 yrs and take a look at what you have, a 30yr old with bad teeth, a few tats that are a bit embarrassing now, an earlobe that will need surgery to repair, several unpaid parking tickets, a drunk and disorderly, drunk in public or possession charge, an estranged relationship with every family member that has bailed them out, lent them money, or had something stolen from them, or had not heard from them in years. Sure some of these young adults do find their way eventually, but many more seem to slip thru the cracks. Please stop making this passage in life sound so romantic, and give a balanced view. Thanks, and good luck to all
Posted by Scott on 08/09/2009 at 07:09am | permalink | Reply to this comment
"A loser is someone who lets someone else tell them what success looks like."
Did you just call all your readers losers and get away with it? Classic.
Posted by Mike on 02/05/2010 at 03:38pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
My 20 something son has gone to community college twice – once 2 years ago and once this semester. Both times he stopped going to his classes and ended up either withdrawing or failing. This was after he received a 100% Pell Grant (which gave him several thousand dollars for living expenses, as well as paying for the classes and books). He has had 3 very good jobs since he graduated 2-1/2 years ago – but lost all 3 because he couldn't seem to go more than 2 or 3 days a week.
He doesn't have an interest in anything, and when he does show some interest – it is short-lived. He has no motivation. I've tried everything to help him/get him help, with no success. I'm very wary of kicking him out of the house because he vegetates towards bad people/things. But, I'm at my wits end. To me – this is what 'lost' means.
I'm 55 now. I never really knew what I wanted to do. But, I just kept doing – whatever – through the years. But, I made money, supported myself and my son. I find my son's total lack of responsibility (even though, I DID teach him these things growing up)absolutely unexceptable. If he would only do SOMETHING – I would support him in his endeavors fully. But, unfortunately, and to my dismay, he is doing NOTHING!!!!!
Posted by Debbie on 03/06/2010 at 12:28am | permalink | Reply to this comment
i like this post. thanks.
Posted by carak on 03/08/2010 at 12:05pm | permalink | Reply to this comment