I've worked with a variety of people from each "generation" and found the same spectrum of personalities. Gen X, Gen Y, Boomers: I've met team players, assholes, cynics, optimists, idealists. The generation didn't matter — what's more, I haven't seen any of these personalities in overwhelming numbers from a particular generation.

Here's the thing with all of these generation gaps (which is just a culture gap by a different name), they fade with time. I see more-and-more 50-year-olds texting, more people becoming comfortable with open, online identities. It's a shift in our culture that open technology is empowering; some Gen Xers and Yers capitalized on these first, but they did not cause the evolution. (Notice I did say "some" as I know plenty of people in the Gen Y group who don't own a cell phone and rarely use the Internet except for email.) Rather, they were harbingers of the change.

PS I'm not sure Gen X had much to do with casual Friday. Rather, businesses needed more ways to be competitive. And if all you get is a casual Friday where you work, I'm sorry. I've never had to wear anything more than jeans and a decent shirt (somtimes not so decent) no matter where I've worked — ranging from a small startup to a company with over 350,000 people. (And I'm a business manager.)

PPS I think the whole MySpace thing had more to do with the founder trying to associate himself with the target demographic as closely as possible — rather than him trying to avoid being a "stepping stone". It was a business decision. Had he targeted Boomers, he might have tried to be older. Had he targeted people in their 30's, he would have been honest about his age. Using it as an argument that Gen X is a stepping stone generation is weak.

"….while Generation Y tends to want to support and work together. A Gen Xer is often found at the office, squeezing by on their flextime, and blocking out the world with their iPod."

Is it fair to ask for some examples to support this broad claim?

***********

Hi Recruiting Animal. Here is an article that I think does a good job of describing where Generation X is coming from. Thank you for your comment! -Rebecca

Sounds great – let's raise the retirement age to 79 and the payroll tax for everyone under 30. Got to shore up social security and medicare to keep the Baby Boomers from bankrupting it. Thanks for being a team player!

PS I suspect this blog, and the 20-Something series in particular, tends to talk about "generations" because it allows for grandiose statements that can't be disproven until years later. (It's impossible to define a generation until they have been around a while – it's a job for historians rather than sociologists. It's meaningful to talk about late Victorians or WW2 veterans or baby boomers, beyond that it gets murky).

In actual fact, what we are really talking about is "age" (or "life stage"). Class, race, nationality, educational level, gender and so on have a huge impact on people's careers and life experiences. Age has very little. Why? Because age is the one thing that changes fairly automatically as you go through life whereas most others are either fixed or more difficult to change.

PPS Sorry if I sounded excessively grumpy. I'm just a little sick of the "generational debate". I think things are much more subtle than that.

The real conflict will happen when we all have to start paying for baby boomers' retirement (at least in countries that have a state welfare system) even though they all own million dollar homes and we can't afford a house.

Where is this so called great job market for new graduates? All this Gen X and Gen Y talk is nonsense, its too soon to define either generation. Gen Y just got out of their training bras but we are supposed to believe they have some sort of collective world view? I'd really love to see some blogs focused on late twenties or early thirties. That seems to be the age gap between what Penelope blogs about and what the guest bloggers discuss.

You know Penelope, I typically enjoy most of your columns, I think you are a realist. But indulging this child's narcissistic, delusional rantings really kind of turns me off. Much more of this drivel and I'm going to unsubscribe. Yes, I'm open to hearing about how college kids see the world. But to lay claims about my entire generation based on a sample size of one? Please. When this child grows up and gets some education about statistics and sample sizes, perhaps I'll be interested in what she has to say.

I am an EARLY gen Y – probably even borderline Gen X based on the age chart. I have to agree that there may not be so much of a generational conflict but more of a cultural gap…stated in a comment above. Kids graduating from HS today were born with cell phones in their hand and cable modems on their computers. They are used to instant gratification…they never had the joy of watching a dos prompt write out line by line a directory of a folder…they never had the joy of dial up internet access from home and waiting ten hours to download a file. With that, I believe the same is expected in regards to a career…why wait. Why not make the money now, why not have the perfect job now? Again, generalizations here, but that's my take.

And the same generational differences that have been in existence since the beginning of time are once again hashed out as being brand new.

Penelope is the most age-obsessed blogger on the web today. The will always be a generation Y, X, and Boomer Generation, they will simply have different names. This whole issue is merely about ones attitudes and aptitudes at various ages in their lives.

I have to second Alicia Anderson's view.

And I have to add an interesting conversation I had yesterday with my highly competent and professional personal trainer, who will be 22 in a few weeks. I had thought he was older because he is mature and very good at his job. I only found out his age when he asked me – a Gen x-er and his client – to be his Facebook friend.

He says he does not want to typify his generation by being a "drunk", a "casual sex seeker" and a "moper" staying with his parents. Indeed his family does not live in England, where he attended at their expense a very good public school (which in UK lingo means an expensive boarding school).

He is keen to build a career in the fitness industry and is already on his way to build his own studio in one of the most expensive localities in London – where real estate prices rarely fall below £2000-5000 per sq. ft. or $4000-10,000 in the US currency. He can afford it because of his success in his chosen profession and not by picking needless semantic fights with the Gen-Xers, who enable his success by employing him.

His competence is key – and a non-negotiable hygiene factor – while his age is not.

Tim,

Very true, each generation builds on the previous. The baby boomer generation is responsible for breaking a majority of norms in the 1960s. Freedoms were created that generation x enjoyed. Generation X broke more norms in the 1990s, in which, Generation Y is enjoying.

Generation X is just a non-term. There was no way to describe them so the "brand x" theme was created. (Douglas Copeland was a baby boomer by definition). It is even further intellectually lazy to call the next generation "generation y". Who really comes up with this stuff? Funny how a fiction writer can define a generation.

Hi Jeff,

I think there was an article in the Harvard Business Review on generations and work. They are already naming and branding future generations!

Good article. I've been reading your blog for a while now (Well- since it was first syndicated on Yahoo, really.) and have now felt uncontrollably compelled to add my two cents into the fray. I am admittedly, on the very, very tail end of Gen X with about a month and a half to spare, according to that "recruitnik" fellow linked to above.

What I am wondering is this: Are these events/conflicts/etc… between Gen X and Gen Y only going on in the office between those white collar/pedigree types? I only ask because my line of work is "in the trenches" in manufacturing and we simply don't see this type of behavior. Although that's not to say that we don't have the occasional case of the "ME-ME-ME's". The way the article describes it, it sounds like the situation is one step this side of warfare.

Although, I do have to admit that when I'm off on my own, I do like to strap on my ipod and block it all out once in a while. But I think that can be mostly attributed to an overwhelming disposition toward introversion. Normal speak: I'm a thinker, then a doer.

When I was in my twenties, I thought there was something special about my generation; something that had never occurred before. Now that I'm in my 40's, I realize that every "generation" thinks that. It's part of being 24.

Rebecca, how do you think you'll be different from the current Gen-X'ers when you reach their age?

**********

Hi Gladstone. Great question! The simple answer is that I don't know. There are things that I would like my generation to do, and maybe we won't, but I would at least like to try. If we ended up like Generation X, that would be great. If we could continue to build upon the ideas and actions that Gen X has taken, and create further change, that would be great as well. I think Generation Y is special, certainly. But no more special than Gen X. We're just different. I think the key is in working together so that we can build a better workplace for all of us. Thank you! – Rebecca

While I admit that I enjoy reading some blogs, I'm beginning to think that bloggers are today's version of yesterday's political thinktanks. I'm sure you remember the rooms where the worlds problems were "solved" by sitting in a room and thinking about it rather than getting out and trying to solve it. Perhaps rather than reading another's opinion they should get out in the world. Everyone, even the baby boomers, were idealistic pussy at 24. The real world taught you that in order to be in control you had to be the boss. Forget Casual Friday, starting your own company was the real accomplishment of baby boomers! Glad to see you're learning from our experience.

“Cynicism vs. Idealism”

Almost everyone, and certainly every “generation” starts from idealism in youth and shifts slowly into cynicism/realism/practicality as they get older. The Boomers/Hippies who were gonna change the world with peace, love and understanding joined up with Reagan in the 80’s. Gen X’ers were gonna revolutionize the world with the internets, and it’s mostly the same old-same old, just online now. Gen Y is the latest, and like most generations, seem to think they’re the first ones to think this way.

But hold on to that idealism as long as you can… it’s good stuff.

Thanks for making my life simpler by advocating the posting of this drivel Penelope. One less blog to read!

I think the "you vs. us" section is off-base. Around the era of the Great Depression, helping out your brother and being a rugged individualist were both avowed American values. Collaboration, cooperation, and support (i.e., working together) do not require togetherness per se. Nor does togetherness necessarily lead to productive collaboration.

I would agree that Gen-Xers are both more distrustful and more solitary; however, to my observation, Gen-Y socializing is very largely just that, socializing, sometimes to the extent of interfering with the work.

***********

Hi Barbara. This is an interesting point. Certainly the fact that we may work solitary in a team may not impact productivity, but it does change how we can get things done in the same workplace. Thank you for bringing up a different perspective! -Rebecca

One thing that made me think twice were the comments about how Gen Y will pick up on Gen X's work. That's great… until you realize that Gen Y isn't done yet. The above statement makes it sound like the baton has been passed, when both groups are still in the mix.

I'm in Gen Y, I guess, as a 25-year-old, and I am starting to see that idealism doesn't pay off. That's not the way the business world works. I recently had a legitimate complaint about something at work, and when I brought it up, I felt like I was punished for complaining. Fair? No. But it still happened.

I think that the next stumbling block for Gen Y will be to discover that you can "call-the-shots" your way out of a job. There is something to be said for respecting the powers that be; you may not like it, but that's the way it is. And all of that teamwork and camaraderie? Directors don't hire groups of people for one management position. Besides, it could be your individual hard work and good ideas that everyone in the group is getting credit for. Will this whole "Gen Y is awesome" buzz last? It might be empowering for now, but I really don't think it will.

************

Hi Jeff. There have been times when I have lost my idealism too in the "real workplace." I think the key is to maintaining an idealistic outlook, while realizing what you can do realistically at the moment. This is where Gen X and Gen Y can greatly help each other. Thank you for bringing up a good point! -Rebecca

1. I’ve done the research, and the writing is on the wall for us Gen Xers. What you’ve neglected to add to your argument is that Gen Xers did change the status quo, although not as much as Gen Y will, but flexible work hours and telecommuting are ours. The important part about that is that a lot of us will be out flexing, spending important time with our young families, while you Gen Yers establish yourself in our absence.
It’s not our lack of success that leads us not to be mentioned, it’s pure demographics. Boomers are larger than we are, Gen Y is larger. *shrugs*
For us Gen Xers, we will stay focused on what’s important to us: we are making up for our latchkey childhoods by intensifying our sense of family. We have great dedication to doing a good job, too, and we like opportunities for growth, even if it’s not UP the corporate ladder. It's personal growth, since that's what's available to us.
2. The part that bothers me about this is that you are tagging a whole generation and telling them (us) that we’re WRONG for being cynical, even when you’ve read the research, you know where it comes from, and still, you just won’t accept us. Your generations is renowned for accepting all kinds of diversity, but you won’t accept that we are different, and we can't change into you. Please RESPECT it. Even if you don't like it. In return, we will be working very hard to accept you and your idealism.
3. The point of a team is NOT to have a bunch of identical idealists agreeing on something. It’s about diversity coming together, managing differences, coming to compromises to accomplish a goal. Gen X individuals ARE team players, but we don’t need a gang to accomplish EVERYTHING. We work great alone, too. Again, please respect our diversity.
But off the record and out of the workplace, those of us who care about such things as generational identity, and are Gen X, know we are members of an elite, exclusive club. Membership is closed, no one else get in. We may be cynical, but we're great writers, artists, musicians…and we love it. We love not being like you and not being like the Boomers.
And, before you know it, Gen Z will be in the workforce, showing what "technological savvy" really is. It happens quickly.

If Rebecca is a representative of Gen-Y, us Gen-Xers have nothing to worry about. You come across as impatient, self-indulgent and ill-informed, and to narcissistic to see this in yourself. What I find especially ironic is that you dare to call us cynics and loners and you the idealists and team players, when all you seem to want to do is climb over us in pursuit of your own self-achievement and idolization.

The only thing you have going for you is your sheer size and the fact that you are riding on the coattails of those of us in Gen-X who put in the long hours and hard time carving out a new niche and a radically different workplace culture.
If anything, by measuring their success in terms of job title and compensation, Gen-Y is undoing much of the progress we made in terms of redefining achievement and seeking work-life balance.

Gen-Y can only climb on our backs for so long – pretty soon you will need to fend for yourself, something that, given this sort of commentary, you seem extremely ill-equipped to do.

*************

Hi Phaedrus. I can appreciate your concern. I strongly believe that while Gen X thinks differently than me, they have certainly helped me get to the point where I am today. My older sister is Gen X and I've taken her advice all my life. Indeed, Penelope is Gen X and I read her blog daily. My Board President, the person that is a mentor to me and also who I am accountable to, is also Gen X. I want to be able to work together, and believe it is important to know where we come from and how we are different and similar to do that. Thank you for your comment! -Rebecca

Sorry Eddie, Telecommuting and flex hours weren't created by Gen X. Telecommutings earliest forms started in the 1980's so by my math the decision would have been made by a management level baby boomer. I also remember reading some articles on flex hour shortly after that. True, they weren't mainstream (and still aren't yet) but they were they. Gen X may have "embraced" them by taking advance of the opportunity but they didn't create them.

As soon as I read this post, I was dying to break away from my meetings today to read the comments. Rebecca, I think you should take it as a huge compliment when those who criticize your provocative post largely do so by griping over the details (e.g. casual Friday catalysts, Xers feeling like Yers, Yers feeling like Xers, etc.) or by making equally broad sweeping generalizations that rest solely on the evidence of their own experiences at work.

I’m disappointed in the lackluster debate over the validity of “generation” here. So many of the comments attack the validity of this MACRO concept using MICRO examples. Analysis of generations differences should be a lens that helps us understand (albeit only broadly) one another’s different work perspectives, expectations and values. If my Boomer mentor promotes blogs and is addicted to his iPod and my Yer sister is a loyal employee who hates text messaging, their individual traits have no bearing on the validity of generational trends. Stop speaking from authority by citing examples where n=1 or 2!!

David H is right—we live in a flattening, increasingly connected world. How can these shifts not shape new generations in real, lasting ways? I agree that Gen Y will mature like its predecessors, but the claim that the real issue is “lifestage” strikes me as incredibly over-simplistic. Aren’t many of you ignoring of the impact of a rapidly changing environment?

To lend some clarity to the confusion about generations and birth years—here is a chart that has been developed based on the synthesis of demographer research. The numbers are US based.

Generation Birth Years
Veterans 1925 to 1945
Baby Boomers 1946 to 1964 (80 million)
Generation X 1965 to 1980 (40 million)
Generation Y 1981 to 1993 (about 78 million, dependent on birth years used)

@ Sean – you’re already too late. Futurists and sociologists have been referring to those born from 1993 to 2000 as “Generation Z” for years.

Rebecca, I appreciate your analysis but do have concern with the tone of the post. You have interesting things to say and perhaps the Xers and Boomers would listen if all Yers crafted our messages more thoughtfully. If you’re interested in press rather than progress, I get it, but if we are to have more of the latter, I believe a more respectful conversation about leveraging generational understanding is due. Either way, thank you for contributing to the generational change dialogue. I just love all of this: the controversy, the ignorance, the insights and the challenge ahead of us to convince organizations to proactively adapt to shifting mindsets of their workforce—before they are left in the dust.

Reading Ryan's posts, I was left with the taste of the guy who wrote "my startup life". Joel Spolsky pretty much nailed it:

from: http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2007/06/29.html
[begin quote here]
His book, unfortunately, tells you almost nothing about starting a company. It's really, really thin on stories of what the actual company did and how things worked. Worse, the book is padded with really, really embarrassing sidebars in which Ben gives you jejune Great Thoughts about business management.

Great entrepreneurs show up, take small risks (and sometimes, large risks), raise their hand when they're confused, and try to figure out what's going on and how a situation could be made better.

When you show up and raise your hand, you've already outperformed 90 percent of the crowd.

And:

The person on the receiving end of the mentoring relationship should work hard to insure it's not totally a one-way street.

Ben Ben Ben.

Yes, you're smart and good looking. Yes, you know more about starting a software company than practically any other 19 year old. And sure, I'll be happy to invest in your next startup, or hire you, or adopt you, whatever.

But. Mark my words. You're going to reach the ripe old age of 23, and you're going to look back on this book you wrote, and you're going to say, "how on earth did anyone let me publish such self-important crap," and you're practically going to die of embarrassment. Trust me: I'm in my 40s, and I'm still morbidly embarrassed by the pompous, arrogant, self-important crap I write on this site here, up to and including this very sentence.
[end quote here]

Ryan and Rebecca both fall under the (natural) heading of…being in their twenties.

I mean, when I was their age, I thought I "got it". I'm embarrassed to think of the sage advice and perspective on the world I offered to those around me.

Was it worth crap? Yes and no. It's a natural part of the learning process. I regurgitated the opinions of those around me, those I held in esteem. Mostly without realizing it. And certainly without the breadth of life experience to back them up.

Kudos to both Ryan and Rebecca for writing what they are doing now. They will go far. They've shown drive, initiative, and a willingness to put themselves out and have their opinions skewered by a bunch of crotchety older folks like us.

(obligitory generation remark: I'm 33, smack in the middle of genx, and vividly remember my 12th grade IB english teacher referring to us as the 'most cynical class she could remember teaching in 20-some-odd years'. So we were cynical early, thanks.)

Do "gen y'ers have their choice of jobs"? Umm…no. Competent and dynamic individuals have their choice of jobs. (the aforementioned 20-year-olds fall in this category.) Ok, ok…given the job market the mediocre-to-lazy population of gen-y can choose from Wendys, McDonalds, OR Burger King.

(just like the mediocre-to-lazy populations of GenX and all before them..)

and I couldn't just leave this bit alone:
A Gen Xer is often found at the office, squeezing by on their flextime, and blocking out the world with their iPod

You're kidding, right? It's not the 27+year-old crowd I see being defined by having their ipod grafted onto interesting bits of their anatomy.

Generalizations, rehashed generational firebrands, tired cliche's. Rebecca, you can do better. (and I know you will)

You want to blow me away with your writing? (of course not, you don't care a rat's whisker about my personal opinion, but bear with me) Read and digest this:
http://blog.guykawasaki.com/2007/02/politics_and_th.html

It's an essay written by George Orwell on the brutalization of the English language by political rhetoric. Good stuff. (And yes, I'm guilty of violating almost all his rules at times.) Read and apply, and I guarantee us old fogies will sit up and take notice.

(I'd write more, but it's pretty much been summed up above much more eloquently)

Cheers and good luck!

"To Gen X, I just don’t get how the world works. "

Give it ten years. After you've been laid off, pushed around, beaten down & marginalized – then maybe you'll see things differently. This article is the work of an obviously naive individual in her 20's and while that "idealism" may seem refreshing to some, it is cloying to other when you continue to paint an entire generation in such broad strokes. The trouble with posts like these is they over-genralize and fail to recognize people as individuals, instead lumping them into sometimes irrelevant categories.

What I find most interesting is that this person doling out career advice has had one job according to her blog bio. Given the tone and positioning in her article, she appears to describe much of these situations from her own point of view. There is nothing less authentic than advice from someone with limited experience.

And since when is Madison, WI urban?

Penelope,
Congratulations – you found someone even more naive and arrogant than Ryan….

@ Gen Y Princess

I went to LdarryArmstrong's site and read the Gen X entry but couldn't find the evidence I thought you were pointing to.

I did notice however that he claims that the TV Show, Friends, shows us how friends have become Gen X's substitutes for families. But, indeed, I don't know anyone in his or her 20s who wanted to spend time with his parents instead of his friends. So who is he comparing them too? Boomers? Hardly a great source.

This article is banal propaganda. Stupid at best. Ageist at worst.

All I see is a resurgent economy and gen Y suckers falling for the same so-called 'perks' the Xers fell for in the late 90s. If the housing crash doesn't derail it, the upcoming credit card debt collapse will. I'm sure the Y's will feel a lot more like us Xers when those options expire worthless.

As for the idealism vs cynicism, I fail to see how that is attributable to a generation. Idealists just need to waste more time and run around in more circles before they figure out what the cynics already know. All generations have slow learners.

I'm still waiting for Gen Y to really take over pop culture. While I sit back and watch South Park and Family Guy, I still get every quip and reference, while the 20 somethings miss half. And yes I'm using cartoons to prove a point…

Hey look at my predictions having now come true. Now how much are the GenY's accomplishing as they stand in line for a handout?

According to Beth, Generation X starts at 1965 and goes all the way up to birth year 1980.

This just goes to show you how woolly and malleable these generational definitions are.

Douglas Coupland coined the term Generation X in a magazine article in 1987 (this was a precursor to the novel). He was referring to people born between 1958 and 1966. He later widened the term to mean anyone who was a twenty-something between 1987 and 1991.

I was born in 1976, I finished school in 1993, I finished college in 1996 when I also turned 20. By the time I hit college age, the term Generation X was all the rage but it varied by definition whether or not I was actually in it. At that point the generation after me was supposedly called the "Nintendo Clan". Now Gen X supposedly goes all the way up to 1980 – someone who was seven years old when Coupland was writing about twenty-somethings.

Beth, my point was not that generational differences do not exist but that they are exaggerated (especially on this blog), that other factors such as class, gender and ethnicity are more important, and that writing meaningfully about generations is more a job for historians than demographers. It's impossible to define a generation this early in their lives. Even the generational boundaries keep changing, let alone people's collective experiences, personalities and priorities.

Interestingly, the whole point of Coupland's book was not to define Generation X but to argue why it's impossible to define such a diverse generation. Hence the 'X'.

I actually don't know what generation I technically fall into. I should look that up…sometime…when it would actually have any bearing on my self-employed existence.

Anyway, it may surprise you to know that some number of years ago, the Gen Xers were acting just like the Gen Yers. You probably won't believe me when I say this, but every single generation (or gradutation class or whatever) thinks that they have cornered the marked on idealization. By gum, they're going to change the world! They're leading the *right* way! They're creating something of substance! And so on and so forth.

Before Gen Y came along, the Gen Xers were the idealists. Before that, the Boomers were the idealists. I'm going to guess that whoever came before the Boomers were the idealists of their age when they were on the left side of 25.

Come back in twelve years and tell us how you feel because your personal experiences and the experiences of your peer group do not a valid sample group make.

Get married, have kids, have a mortgage and car payments and then come talk to me about your flexibility. You won't have any. Daycare costs more than college. Grow up Gen Y. Then you'll realize you aren't as important as you think.

aaron – Nope. I'm a hopeful cynic. That's sort of my definition of Gen X. Perhaps that's just cuspers, but those born in the late 70's seem to have a sense of cynicism that just keeps them steadily plugging along – working to make it better.

I originally had a long involved comment written for this post when it was first published. And then, I decided that I just needed to get back to work instead of try to explain where I think there's a disconnect in Rebecca's thinking. But it appears that everyone else has already touched on most of my points (especially the one about Coupland's reason for writing the book – always good to READ the book you're going to reference.) I really get a sense that the entitlement of the Gen Y crowd (I'm a cusper between X & Y) will really bite them later…and thus that might be a source of why they have entered the workplace with the idea that they will just MAKE it how they want it. Gen Y will experience the fall just like we all did when we "grew up".

A note for Rebecca – when stating that you "researched" something, it's probably a bad idea to link to Wikipedia as your main source. Wikis are great and helpful reference tools, but not credible enough for "research".

I really disagree with the whole entitled persona. Many in Gen-'Y' are willing to work hard for what they want. The thing is, they may be pushing themselves a bit too hard if anything. I know 'Yers' who worked full time while going to college AND grad school full time…not just for the money, but the experience. Some of these people took on extra internships or volunteer opportunities to get themselves ahead of the game. So I really have a hard time believing that this is a lazy group.

What is interesting is that this generation is accelerating the rich-poor gap. The "other half" of Gen-'Y'…the slackers, the moochers, the people who ARE entitled and are waiting (unsuccessfully) for their so-called "just due" are living at home, making little if any money. Then you have the others who do work hard, and are earning a lot more than any other generation in history at this point in their lives, even after inflation. It is incredible how many 25, 26, 27 year olds in the town I live in (Boston) that are making $75-100K…more than most families make. This generation might end the concept of the middle class.

Team player? More like condescending little snot. I'm glad everyone from your generation doesn't share your views.

Lane,

Well, the workplace stereotype is that 'Yers' strut into the interview room, and ask for outlandish salaries, benefits, etc. that people who have worked for many years still haven't acheived. Then when they start working, they ask for a promotion in a few months, and a corner office not too long after that. And they don't want to work more than 40 hours a week doing that. There are some who are indeed like that, and the stereotype builds off of that, but most aren't. We are willing to work hard to achieve these goals.

However, the thing is that they DO expect to reach these goals at some point, as you alluded to…and in not too much time. So they will put in the 60 hour week, and they will network like crazy and go to grad school while working full time. But they expect results immediately. And this accelerated career growth does pay off in many respects. There are many people here in Boston and in other cities in their 20s who are already mid-level managers, able to afford their own homes, and having a life that many people years older than them still dream about.

Every generation of 20somethings has thought they were brilliant, bold, innovative and destined to leave others behind in the dust.

Invariably they have ended up being only partially right.

The difference is that this current generation has the internet to give them the illusion that their opinions have far reaching significance.

Before the internet it was highly unlikely that a kid as arrogant and flimsy in her reasoning as this one could get published.

On the other hand, she makes Penelope Trunk look less naive and pretentious. I suppose that might be why she is allowed to post as a guest here.

And BTW, you really should stop putting little exclamation points after every reasponse ("Thanks for your comment!"). It projects fake enthusiasm and comes across as smarmy when you do it EVERY TIME.

"Just as an fyi per a previous poster’s comment: using occasional exclamation points in text communications is fairly common for women in business at all levels, including executives. This isn’t just some weird quirk of Rebecca’s, as the poster implied."

Mary,

The operative word there being occassional. When used consistently it begins to look fake and a tad giddy.

Just because a behavior is common amongst a given group (women in this case) doesn't automatically validate it as being a good idea to use in excess. As it happens, I work in the marketing world and deal pretty consistently with marketing VPs and directors. Many of them are women. They must have missed the memo telling them to use exclamation points on every communication because I don't see it too often.

Gen-Y promoters say they want to shatter systems that reward people simply for being around for a time and "paying their dues". Regardless of your age, if you can produce real value you should do it and profit from it. Producing real value is something tangible like increasing sales, reducing costs, or creating something there's a market for. Developing your "personal brand", having strong ideals, talking about the concept of leadership, knowing the right people, and challenging the status quo do not count for anything unless you use those things to produce something tangible.

The tenor of the Gen-Y thing, as I understand it, is that the older generations want recognition for "paying their dues" and Gen-Y wants recognition for creating their "personal brand images". The reality, though, is that what really gets recognition is getting things done. The main ingredient to getting things done is hard work. Thinking you should be recognized for your high ideals alone is as silly as saying you should be rewarded just for "paying your dues."

I think this post is hilarious.

I looked at your blog, Rebecca, and it appears you are on your first "real" job. Yet you feel somehow qualified to contrast Gen Y's perspectives, opinions, and experiences with those of Gen X's. As if you know anything about either.

Are you a statistician? An anthropologist? A social scientist? Why no real attribution in your post? Why not cite your sources?

(Linking to other blog posts doesn't really count as backing up an assertion.) Did you do any research at all?

No, you just pulled these ideas out of your niavely biased nether-regions, didn't you. Well done, my friend.

Let's just take one example of something you didn't bother to look up: "Casual Fridays."

Unbeknownst to you, these were invented in the fifties (before Gen Xers were invented) by corporate big-wigs as a "perk" in certain companies. The concept was then reinforced throughout the nineties by the marketing departments of the GAP and DOCKERS (two companies founded by baby-boomers) who wanted to sell more khakis.

If you'd like to know how the trend evolved during the dot com era, perhaps you could check wikipedia.

You've heard of it, right? Wikipedia?

Check out this bio of founder Jimmy Whales. Notice his age? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimbo_Wales

Hmmm. Seems he's a Gen Xer. Just one of many who's "changed the status quo."

Seems he "doesn’t operate out of fear or distrust, but the possibility of what can be done." Something you arrogantly claimed about your generation. Based on…?

Well, apparently without doing your homework.

Where have you been, girl? I could go on about all of the things you probably rely on daily, online and off, that were brought into being by Gen Xers (born between 1966 and 1980 according to the PEW research center).

Wikipedia, Google and Craigslist are a few of the most obvious.

I was born the first year of Gen X, and my youngest sister was born during one of the last. She passed away in a car accident in Africa a few years ago at the age of 27. She was there working to educated teens about safe sex and reproductive health. Yep. She was motivated by the "possibilities" as well.

I run a non-profit media company staffed by a team of amazing Gen X/Gen Y women. We're bitingly sarcastic and hella witty at times, but we're far from cynical.

Sadly, we had to let two "team-members" go at one point early on, because they weren't willing to do the hard work necessary to build their skills one step at a time. They wanted to step right into the senior producer roles, thinking they understood everything well enough and could just "figure out" the rest.

What they didn't understand is that even the senior producers (both Gen X and Gen Y) were picking up the more mundane tasks. That's what you do in a small, creative company like ours. No job is too small, and all that.

But when you're full of yourself, some things are too small. Like fact-checking. Like not pulling a post out of your ass.

Interesting, isn't it, that the youngest, least experienced individuals to come on board at our organization thought they were too good for some of the grunt work? Perhaps if they were more experienced, they would have *known* that no one is too good for the grunt work.

Should I chalk their mistake up to their being inexperienced? Or to their being members of Gen Y? Seems that second option wouldn't be fair to the other rad Gen Y gals working with me.

To what should I attribute *your* mistakes in judgement and lack of reasoning? Unfortunately you've unwittingly illustrated, poster-child like, the negative stereotype of your generation. Your willingness to cut-corners by not researching your facts or by basing your opinions on even the most rudimentary foundation of experience or knowledge is too funny!!

Is it wrong of me to guess that you want to be taken seriously as a thinker and a writer?

You have the inclination. You're willing to put yourself out there. Do yourself a favor and invest in yourself just a little bit more by adding some elbow grease and a little self-skepticism to the mix. The sooner you get over yourself, the sooner you'll be able to develop something worthy of recognition.

Hey!…Man i love reading your blog, interesting posts ! it was a great Tuesday

I enjoy the blog and the comments. I agree that there are differences between all of the generations, and they blur with time. In my mind the two biggest changes for college educated generations are the job market and the availability of capital for starting your own business.

Does anyone remember when an internship meant an opportunity to work for free for the summer, provided you could find a place for yourself to stay.

Also, if you left B-school in 1989 to start your own business most people assumed you weren't able to find a job.

Gen Y is larger and the job market has changed, all for the better. But don't bet on a mass exodus of Baby boomers to vacate those corner offices for you. Gen X's have been waiting a decade on that promise, and just when it looked promising the boomer's HELOC's collapsed. I am afraid the Boomers will be taking their cushy VP titles to the grave.

The author is evidently symbolic of her Generation-Y masses of anti-depressants pillheads, lacking the knowledge and the vision that so many of our pioneers had that have gone before us, no matter what Generation they may be. Gen X remembers a lot of the 20th Century that Gen-Y was in the crib for.

We share our inherent perspective of the 20th Century that the Boomers share, simply by being witness to world events or shared experiences,–the invasion of the Faulkland Islands and Grenada; the assassination of Bobby Kennedy, Ronald Reagan, John Lennon, Dimebag Darrell—these were tragic events that changed all our lives, most pre-dating the spoonfed Gen-Y.

In dealing with Gen Y -especially at the workplace- I feel like I am their history teacher constantly filling in where their high school teachers or community leaders fell short. They are undeveloped little yes-men that shit and stay on the pot. They don't know how it all fits together in the Big Picture– although they could setup my flatscreen tv for me. They embody everything that was right and wrong about the 80s– Vanity, bad fashion, sell-outs, imported-cocaine, insider trading, divorce, AIDS, & porn on videotape… These kids have dreams as shoddy as the particle board mini-mansions they grew up in. Most will end up in jail like Vick or have their kids taken away like their idol — Britney Spears… all because they never learned to take their own responsibility for things. Enjoy serving time for your crime, Gen-Y!

While I don't think this author quite nailed it with the approach she took to this question, I do see some substantial differences between X and Y, enough so that I think they will be looked at by history as very distinct generations facing distinct challenges.

There are certain things about genXers that seemed to depart from broader trends. Normally, incoming generations in educated, industrialized countries tend to be more secular and more liberal than their parents. What I consider to be gen X is to be this little bump in the progression where there was a resurgence of sorts with young people supporting Republicans to a greater extent than their parents had at their age – and for many of the liberal ones, they seemed too apathetic to care, just too concerned with how much granola was in their granola bars to notice the world around them going into disarray. I think I was 15 years old when I realized that getting paid in stock options for some sockpuppets.com IPO was the most ridiculous, hairbrained idea ever. Some genXers didn't seem to think so.

Many of the genXers that I've come across seemed to think that learning Visual Basic in business school was going to cut them out to be the next Bill Gates. Having come into the software world long after they've left their mark and after a stint in the Marine Corps, I'm confounded on a daily basis with having to fix software mistakes made by unqualified employees from the dot.com boom era, no matter if it's at a big century old corporation or a 10 year old start-up.

If you look at genY enrollment rates in computer science departments across America, they're actually taking a huge plunge even as projected demand for CS majors is growing rapidly. If you ask me, genY looked at genX and had no desire to make all of the same mistakes. I think that makes me genY. I think maybe there is some fluidity here – genXers who have seen the light could maybe call themselves genY since we're really all so close in time it's hard to tell. But many genXers are still out there and up to their old tricks – last I heard flipping real estate was all the rage in some circles. Too bad.

Unfortunately, the other thing that distinguishes genY is the challenges that they will face as they enter into the economy. The circumstances that set genY apart from genX is that genY is projected to be the first generation in a long time to be worse off economically than our parents' generation. I don't have the rosy optimism that the author of this post has.

It would be nice if the Baby Boomer generation picked up its own tab and actually paid for their own wars, or actually invested in the infrastructure like their parents had done for them. Baby Boomers and genXers alike have always prided themselves in seemingly paying for everything – their parents, their kids, themselves. But the reality is that they've all run up a huge debt and they're more than happy to pass it onto their children. GenY are the first of those children.

I've spent this evening reading across all the links and all the paternalistic synopses of gen Y until it made me mad.

Let me dispel at least one of these rumors right here for us all tonight, then. Why do genYers change jobs every two years? Is it because they're spoiled, immature quitters focused on praise and gratification rather than process, loyalty, and hard work?

Or is it because if you don't quit your job every 2 years, turns out your manager will think you're a pushover and not give you a raise?

In my field I am supposed to pretty much double my income within my first 6 years of work based on AVERAGE salaries nationwide. Bur how do I do that when anything above a 10% annual raise seems to be considered exceptional (read: above average)? When I entered the industry I turned over every rock trying to figure out if I was missing a vital piece of information. Only answer I came up with is that no matter how much I will want to stay, chances are I'll have to switch jobs. Easy 20k raise done by updating a resume and posting it on Monster.

As far as confetti parties and fancy but otherwise worthless job perks go, they just expose ineptitude of management who will end up paying the market rate for the labor they hire no matter how hard they try not to. In addition, they'll face losses from high turnover and the time and money they waste on worthless perks.

Casual Friday must have seemed like it was some great progress to earlier generations – but it's not. All it means is that I have to buy more clothes than I actually need or want or otherwise get to wear for any additional utility of covering my hide in a way not already fulfilled by all the crap I already have. It's a sham and has always been a sham just as the rest of the fake job perk movement is a sham. Civilian employers learned something from the military here – you give people bright shiny objects as a reward and then you won't have to pay them as much. That's all there is behind this stuff.

So the real question here is not, "how does Gen Y build on the Casual Friday progress built by Gen X and prior generations?" The real question is, "why is the Casual Friday movement that worked for Baby Boomers and GenXers failing to work the same way for Gen Y?"

There's a lot of small factors that add up. More education means greater ability to negotiate – being able to do for themselves what unions had to do for less educated workers in the past. Changing views on family – accepting the very simple idea that family and career are both too important to attempt to juggle at the age of 19. At the same time rejecting all the societal status symbols associated with marriage – something Gen X and Baby Boomers have done a great job of demonstrating how over-rated it is to gen Y. Also, the secularization of youth – not believing in a god has a great effect on how much value one places both on doing meaningful work and being fairly compensated for it within one's lifetime. And gen Y is the most secular in American history. Accepting the corollary to an information economy means that more value is placed on steep learning curves in order to stay current in the marketplace. And on and on…

And,

Baby Boomers are carrying:

Their miserable, hateful parents and grandparents of the "greatest generation" and,

Their children and grandchildren of Gen-X
and Gen-Y, only to hear Gen-X with their unwiped butts complain whine and endlessly blame.

X Gen have stood up and challenged baby boomers in a constructive way, pushed some boundaries and learnt some lessons along the way… as have the baby boomers. Baby boomers are starting to see the big picture now with regards to technology… which is heartening.

X Gen are kinda getting worn out with the lack of support and respect from the Y Gen… they are not bringing up the rear… like little sisters and brothers they seem to want everything without having to go the hard yards. Basically, Y Gen are whiney little brats who wouldn't know reality if it smacked them in the face.

Z Gen will be the ones who really pay for this calamity.

Baby boomers… stop holding onto the Y Gen and get them out there doing something useful… lest big brother and sister go postal on the lot of you. Get your act together.

Looks like you genYers are about to get your first taste of a recession. You weren't really in the workforce for the last bust. The video games at work/free soda pop/pool table seems much less cool when you don't get your raise/bonus — or worse yet, take a pay cut, have you or your buds get laid off, benefits taken away, and stock options expire worthless.

What a narcissist this blogger is. Gen Y are a bunch of brats who don't want to work for anything. They've never experienced hard times and the poor little things will get such a shock when the global economy takes a turn for the worst and they won't be able to afford a new phone plan or those new shiny boots. Nevermind mummy and daddy boomer will be there to help you out.

I googled "dealing with gen y employees" and eventually found myself browsing through this blog. Whew! I never realized this whole generation talk is stirring up so much talk. While I do agree with some who think we're making a big deal out of nothing (it all depends on the circumstances you're in), I'd have to say otherwise. Its a major concern of mine as I'm now being put in a position to handle both gen x and y employees.

In the IT department where I belong, the employees were majority Gen Xers. I characterize them (or us?) as being the silent, efficient, execution experts. In a word, plug-and-play. Currently majority are still Gen Xers. Even the management team are composed of Gen Xers with our boss being the baby boomer. However, Gen Yers are starting to find their place in our department.

Gen Yers are the most vocal, saying what they feel and expressing themselves freely. But work-wise, they're less reliable and can easily veer off course with minimal guidance. Managers handling them have to work overtime, constantly following them up, giving mentorship and guidance.

Gen Xers are more reserved, focusing on getting the job done and thats it. They're basically maintenance free.

For a company, it all goes down to how much contributions an employee has given. Between x and y, I know most of you can guess which ones I have more preference too. However, I still believe that Gen Yers have lots of energy and passion that if properly channeled could create a huge impact in the success of an organization. Unearthing it is the biggest challenge every Gen X manager can face nowadays. If only those gen Y dudes would listen more….

Interesting perspective, and it reminds me of how idealistic I felt in my early youth (and to a great degree still do, but that idealism is tempered with a little realism these days, and with children and mortgages – a little risk aversion).

One thing young people won't realize until they're a little older: most all young people are idealistic, adept at the latest technology, risk-takers, vocal, and feel like they can change the world. That's not unique to this generation, but an aspect of every generation's youth.

What's different today is as others have commented – you're constantly standing on the shoulders of those that came before you. So your success may seem easier than mine.

Newton didn't create calculus out of thin air. He built it on mountains of science that preceded him, and the work of giants that built those mountains.

i also think Rebecca is not gen y, but a cusper, personally, considering she was probably born in 1982 or 81.

she's a little too pressed to separate herself from "gen x"

i think she feels like she is gen x deep inside, but definitely not y.

listen Rebecca, dont let wikipedia or whatever else website define you, do what you feel.

whymaniawhy,

awesome.

i freaking love generation x.

i think the boomers still resent the total awesomeness of Gen X, and are now trying to push theirs kids onto center stage to overshadow gen x. it can be really annoying considering their isn't much to write home about as to what gen y is doing. (remember us cuspers (including Rebecca) see right through the hype, as we were the early "users" back in the late 1990s and early 2000's when gen y was still in middle and elementary school). gen y is a carbon-copy of us "early birds" in that respect.

that is why we respect Gen X, and will always.

Let me see if I can explain this in laymens terms as generation "Y" does seem to be unbelievably air headed at best and downright emotionally disturbed at worst.

1. We were using personal computers long before most of you were even born! ie. Texas Instruments. Shall we talk about Bill Gates … maybe that other guy Steve Jobs? ever heard of them?

By the way I'm a 37 year old male. Our elementary school had access to home computers (texas instruments) as did our middle school and high school (Macintosh) for that matter.

Point being we were the first to explore the territory and with intense feedback helped create what you bozos use today.

2. As far as sitting in a corner listening to an Ipod is concerned? If you consider running your own business for the last 15 years comparable to sitting in the corner listening to an Ipod… well guilty as charged! In fact 6 of my closest friends own successful businesses. One actually making motion pictures at this point.

How about this, lets call it like it really is shall we?: Know it all, narcissistic personality disorderd, spoiled rotten brats entering the workforce wet behind the ears judging an entire generation that literally helped pave the way for their sorry asses!

By bravely going against the grain and voting in such people as Bill Clinton for 2 terms, breaking down racial barriers to an extent never previously seen, promoting the use of "green" products to help save the planet, Creating a health food niche in which your kind can thrive, supporting the termination of apartheid in south africa as well as creating a musical and artistic niche that to this day isnt completely acknowledged for its intense uniqueness and flair.

We assisted in creating the internet, cellphones and personal computers making them what they are today as well as well as participated in a building boom of epic proportions while having some of the most memorable athletes in sports history. Lance Armstrong, Flo Jo (god rest her soul)De la hoya, Michael Jordan, Andre Aggasi, Bret Favre shall I continue?

Listen sweetheart nice try! however our generation accomplished things through hard work and sheer dedication that you obviously couldnt recognize if it hit you over that pretty little "wannabe model" head of yours.

Now what I expect is a THANK YOU SIR…enough said?

It's really sad to see that Gen Xers who are between the ages of 44 and 29 try to look like as if though they are 10 years younger than they are, with Abercrombie shirts on and so forth. It's disturbing. The women try to look like Kate from Jon and Kate plus 8. Its gross. Over 95% of Xers I know drive an gas sucking SUV, and support the GOP. And on top of all of that, now we got the Gen Zers (1995-2010) coming into the world with Hannah Montanaism where it's okay to dress like a Bratz Doll. Good Lord help us all!