Hi Penelope, I really enjoy your entries.

I agree with what you wrote. People do judge on looks and presentation. It's not because they're evil, it's just because they're people. I'm sure everyone does it.

Even though I know about this, I'm still guilty of showing a bad image of me. Sometimes I dress sloppily. My desk is always a mess. I do think I get away with it because I'm very comfortable with myself and my work performance is exceptional. But when the time comes, I do play the game and make sure my image is correct.

And just like you wrote, people should recognize this and try to improve their image in some way.

Penelope, you may be risking your neck by pointing out the unpleasant truth, but it is the truth regardless. Our local newspaper ran an article in the Sunday paper last month about the tough time recent grads are having when it comes to finding a job. I find this a little bit hard to believe, since the economy is doing pretty well right now. Besides, I'm a fellow Gen X'er and we both remember what it was like to REALLY have a hard time finding a job as a new grad! (And walking uphill to school both ways, etc.)

Anyway, on the front page they showed a picture of a young woman with an accounting degree and oodles of debt, who couldn't find a job, and the girl was huge! Not just overweight – totally obese. And NOWHERE in the article did it address that. But how could it have not been completely obvious to anyone reading the story and seeing the picture? The employer doesn't want to have to widen all the doorways and upgrade the elevator, okay? Not to mention the health insurance costs and possible absenteeism. If that makes me sound cruel, well sorry, but it's just silly to ignore the obvious and pretend it doesn't make a difference.

* * * * * * *

I really like this example, Jo. Thanks. The way the media ignores this issue bugs me so much.

–Penelope

Penelope,

Totally agree on the impact of exercise and health on job performance and ability to excel. In fact a 1996 study on NASA employees found that while the productivity of non-exercising office workers decreased 50% during the final 2 hours of the day, exercisers worked at nearly 100% efficiency all day, leading to a 12.5% difference in productivity between the two groups. (Fielding, J.E., "Getting Smarter and Maybe Wiser", American Journal of Health Promotion, Volume 11, 1996)

Multiply that out over hundreds or thousands of employees and decades of work and the impact is staggering.

Our looks have a lot to do with our success in life – there was a voice teacher in my undergrad studies who insisted that as long a particular student was under her tutelage – they were to be impeccably dressed at all times. Even going to the gym or grocery shopping – no mismatched t-shirts and sweats.
She emphasized eating right and working out as essential, not only to maintaining good looks, but energy to sustain a career in music. Learning to survive extensive touring, gigs, auditions, all the while keeping the mind, body, and voice fresh at all times was her goal.
Her students always stood out – they always looked professional and believe it or not, usually sang even better than most!
Discrimination based on looks is prevalent in the opera world – the old paradigm of the heavy opera singer bleating out Wagner is gone. Opera audience development increasingly relies on sex appeal (just look at the advertising for Michigan Opera Theater in recent years) to grab the attention of younger audiences and singers are realizing their faces and bodies sell as many tickets as their voices.

It's interesting to also consider how lifestyle factors help keep people obese and under-appreciated.

Case 1: Studies repeatedly show that lower income individuals are far more likely to be obese and that this is the result of cheap foods typically being calorie-rich and nutrition-poor. For societal reasons, the overweight have a more difficult time gaining employment and promotions. Thus someone who is struggling with low-paying jobs and a weight problem is likely to continue with both of those struggles.

Case 2: An obese person with a desk job must work "extra hard" to overcome the stereotypes mentioned above. As a result, they are more likely to spend additional time sitting at their desk and are also more likely to feel highly stressed. Inactivity and stress are known contributors to weight gain. Thus white-collar worker who is overweight and trying to improve their image through desk work is unlikely to garner much success, as increases in weight will offset the importance of any accomplishments.

Someone in a Yahoo comment made an excellent point: a review of the wealthiest knowledge workers quickly shows how few of them are obese (although some may be overweight). The question then becomes are they of normal weight because they have the wealth and leisure to maintain a healthy lifestyle? Or do they have wealth and leisure because they are healthy? Given how much better I feel and perform when I take pains to maintain my health, I am inclined to believe that wealth and health are at least reinforcing, if not directly correlated.

I can attest to this firsthand. I started my career in the typical nerd uniform (jeans, whatever t-shirt was around, tennis shoes) When I had to follow a more professional dress code for a project, the reactions of my coworkers changed noticeably for the better.

I agree to an extent, but here's the rub, at least for me: I have been unemployed for roughly a year. My weight problems are primarily caused by a hormone imbalance with which I was diagnosed ten years ago. I alternate between walking and jogging every other day, and while my diet certainly could use some improvement, it could definitely be much, much worse. However, no job means no insurance, and I cannot possibly afford the medication I need to manage the problem out of pocket. So, while it may be a fact that being overweight negatively affects one's employment prospects, it's wrong for you to outright defend the practice with the assumption that everyone who has a weight problem is a nasty, sloppy, lazy person. It's discrimination, plain and simple, and there is no excuse for it.

This practice is contributing to the obesity epidemic, not helping it at all, as poorer people have poorer diets as the cheapest foods are most often those which are worst for you. Shame on you for defending a practice which is harmful to the well-being of so many.

I agree that a sloppy appearance may not help you land a new job or help you get a promotion. After 25 years in corporate America, I am absolutely sure that shirking your job responsibilities is definitely not going to get you anywhere either. In the real working world (in which PT obviously hasn't spent a lot of time) you better work long and work hard or you will be sent packing…fast!! Dressing appropriately is very important, but it is not the be all and end all on the road to success. Working hard and doing your job well is much more important. Quite a lot of young people today are much more concerned with how they look then about how much they are contributing on the job. Whether my coworkers are fat or thin, ugly or pretty, young or old, I really could care less. What I do care about is if they are getting the job done and done well. It is really a matter of work ethic not appearance. PT (and others) seem to enjoy making disparaging remarks about the appearance of other people. I have always assumed that only people with low self esteem problems of their own feel the need to belittle others. PT has acknowledged having an eating disorder in the past which goes to show her own low self esteem issue. Sad that she would use her own issues with food/weight as a reason to bash the overweight among us in what is supposed to be a Yahoo Finance article.

I have recently made my way back to the office / corporate world after a work from home stint. Before getting the new job and I went out and blew $1000 on a new wardrobe. It was a lot of money for me to spent, but looking back it was such an important investment. I don't have "what will I wear today?" syndrome anymore and actually look forward to getting dressed each morning. Some clothes came from Nordstrom, others from the Goodwill, more still from eBay. Regardless, they all fit well, can be mixed together to for a great looking, professional outfit and are easy to clean and keep up.

Also, I am lucky enough to work for a company that promotes healthy employees and has an in-house gym. I work out daily during my hour long lunch and believe the endorphins from the workout keep me going all afternoon long. I have never felt healthier, or sexier. I am sure that the self confidence I have recently gained will lead to a promotion. As the saying goes, "When you look good, you feel good." When you feel good, it translates to all aspects of life.

I used to work with a VERY heavy lady who always looked really cool. She had a stylish haircut, wore big earrings and vintage-style glasses, and she dressed in colorful, coordinated outfits. I thought she was delightful and looked more professional and well-groomed than a lot of thinner people. She was involved in a lot of civic music and art groups, and I don't think her weight held her back much. She kicked butt as an employee. I'm thinking out loud here, just wondering if maybe the way extra weight penalizes people is in the way it affects their self-confidence?

Pirate Jo -

Being fat definitely can affect self-confidence. Partly it's being put down by others, but often it's by being put down by yourself.

There was an interesting 2-year study that put a group of obese women on a "Health At Every Size" program (emphasizing exercise and good nutrition regardless of weight loss) and a control group on a standard weight loss diet/exercise program.

At the end of two years, both groups were about the same weight as when they started – but the HAES group had maintained significant improvements in blood pressure, cholesterol levels, and "almost quadrupled their moderate physical activity." The dieters who completed the study (42% dropped out) had not. And: "The non-dieters demonstrated significant improvements in self-esteem and depression at the end the study, while the diet group demonstrated a worsening in self-esteem. The dieters' depression levels initially improved but then returned to baseline."

More info:
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/25384.php (source of the quotes above)
http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/AR/archive/mar06/health0306.htm

"I worry less about looking older and more about what shirt is right for an appearance on CNN."

I think I've watched all of your videos and enjoyed every one. But the only "shirt" you wore that I remember being attractive was the Chinese collared model at the luncheon.

I agree with those who say that the degree to which looking good and dressing well plays a key role in career success varies depending on the industry one works in.

I work in Public Relations/Communications and it must be one of the most looks intensive industries in the world outside the beauty/fashion/entertainment worlds. My boss told me point blank: "We cannot be fat, that's why I want all of you to exercise regularly." And yes, a pretty face, fit body and well-groomed looks do help when you need to charm your clients and the media.

Having said that, I've just recruited a new PR exec who is – to put it mildly – on the heavy side but she can get the job done, works hard, is willing to learn, has a pleasant, easy-going manner with clients and makes an effort to dress well. So it's not always about weight issues but almost always about grooming issues.

Didn't you write this column like two weeks ago?

As someone else noted, your obsession with weight gets tiresome.

Kelly:

If you are eating below your BMR, you are forcing the homeostasis in the body to adjust to a new low which is why you are not gaining weight or losing weight. When you up your intake to your BMR, same thing applies but now hopefully you have more stamina.

The fat-but-fit thing is unresolved in medical and biological research. If your stats (not just BP, resting heart rate but also body fat %) are fine, your fitness is good (you can walk so many miles) then the weight thing is not a medical issue. BTW body fat % and bone strength and body shape all benefit from regular weight training under supervision. Weights also enhance the lean mass of the body, which is a good thing healthwise.

However P is writing about the social manifestation and alas, that is a problem, even in America where a good 2/3 of adults are overweight now.

Thanks.

Please stop using thyroid problems as an excuse for being obese. This is rarely the case. I know because I had a thyroid cyst, was hypothyroid, had my thyroid removed and was paranoid about gaining weight. Talk to your endocrinologist. If your thyroid was causing you to become obese, it would also be causing a multitude of other physical problems. Thyroid disease is easily controlled these days with the right dose of medication. No doctor would ever accept that the primary reason you are obese is because of your thyroid.

Here is something more to chew on. Pew Research noted last year that "Americans See Weight Problems Everywhere But In the Mirror".

Link: http://pewresearch.org/assets/social/pdf/Obesity.pdf

I am no fat acceptance promoter. My lens is purely health related.

But this I know.

If the workplace has to change – more fundamentally than changing one's wardrobe – then the change has to come from people who work there – thin or fat.

With close to 2/3 of Americans now overweight, I do not think many are in a position to cast the proverbial first stone.

So, the thin anorexic bulimic chainsmoker egotistical shallow intellectually unprepared cheater dressed like a hooker, etc. person isn't going to be perceived better than someone who is overweight?

The fact that a person is underweight/not overweight really doesn't imbue them with magical qualities, nor does it indicate discipline and control that would so effectively carry over to their work in a way that would make these statements in anyway useful.

People discriminate against people for many reasons — some would add hair texture, race, hair color, accent, skin color, height, 'ethnicity of name,' etc. to reasons people 'justifiably' should be considered 'less capable.'

Generally it is a certain type of person that seeks to set use such factors to decide who is 'less' than they are — and the goal is usually to find another way to elevate themselves and disregard their own inherent flaws (which are likely actually problematic).

Unfortunately, it really does seem to be women who will inflict these superficial standards on other women — a hold over from the habit women have of competing against one another based on looks.

Some women simply carry this behavior into the workplace and then try to pretend it is not the same petty mindset they exhibited in high-school. Because society has determined largely that men aren't going to be solely or predominately judged by their looks, this issue of being 'too large' means you aren't a good worker, aren't as intelligent, is definitely a by-product of more women entering the workplace.

Some women have never learned to truly depend upon their intellectual abilities, and so they still need to compete based on looks — and therefore dismiss some people based on looks. Some women use their looks to inflate their (own perception of their) work capability — and want to find ways to dismiss competitors.

No one thinks you are smarter because you are thin — they may find you more attractive but they are still pretending you are smarter.

Overweight doesn't automatically equal sloppy, less intelligent, unproductive, poor worker — and being thin doesn't mean you are disciplined, intelligent, etc.

Stop the anorexia ideology — the thinner I am the more I am in control, disciplined, etc.

While many of these responses are full of wishful thinking, the bias against the overweight is more than just cultural — it is genetic. Men and women are biased to find physically fit people more attractive because that fitness generally confers greater reproductive potential. For women it means they are more likely to bear healthy children (obese women often have dangerous problems with out of control diabetes and blood pressure during pregnancy and have dangerously large children). For men it means that they are likely to be free of heritable diseases and also to be better providers for their young offspring.

If that bias has filtered into the workplace it is not through shalowness or "anorexia ideology" but rather because we are genetically programmed to feel it. In fact, it is a testament to the power of social influence OVER genetic predisposition that allows us to be so tolerant of obesity (and any other outward signs of ill health for that matter).

Think about it this way. If we as a culture had absolutely no discrimination against obese individuals we would, presumably, have more obesity and less long term survival. The average obese individual (defined as BMI over 30) has a life expentency of 10 years less than non-obese individuals. Researchers have estimated that poor diet causes more preventable death than alcohol and tobacco combined. And obesity is a major risk factor for diabetes, hypertension, heart disease, strokes, uterine cancer, breast cancer, colon cancer, and on and on and on.

Make no mistake, obesity is not simply an "invdividual difference" like hair color or eye color. It is a very visible sign of poor health. I doubt there will ever be a time when we as a culture stop discriminating.

sorry–i'd meant to make a final point:

brewful says that we as a species are essentially programmed, genetically, against perpetuating obesity.

well, again, if that' s relevant, what should we say to homosexuality? by its very definition, such behavior is incapable of getting passed down to future generations.

While I agree that obesity may be a sign of poor health, it is not the only sign. The girl who skips lunch to drink coffee and smoke cigarettes but fits in a size 0 is probably less healthy.

As a recovering anorexic/bulimic myself, I can see through this article. It smacks of your need to justify your obsession with weight through the best way you know how – careers. Whether or not you are right or wrong, or whatever the statistics show, the way you go about discussing this issue (which you do on a regular basis) is acutely condescending and alienating to some of your readers. You can make a point without being this way.

Do you ever ask yourself why your tone gets so nasty when you talk about this? I suggest taking a closer look at yourself and then reading this article again. Can you read between the lines like I can?

* * * * * *
Hi, Paige. I think that I agree with a lot of what you wrote. There is no way to blog every day if I am not working on my own issues through the blog. I mean, that's the only way to keep things interesting. So, for the most part, the topics I write about are the ones I have trouble with myself. These are the topics I think about all the time, trying to get my arms around. The blog is a place that I work on my hardest stuff, hopefully in a way that inspires other people to work on their hardest stuff.

-Penelope

Okay.

It's taken me a couple of days — actually weeks, because it has come up before, multiple times — to figure out what I wanted to say to you on this subject.

Because so far, you have treated it differently from other workplace issues. You haven't said, here are five things to make it less of an issue, or how to finesse it in an interview.

You have said, make it go away. And you've said, make it go away my way, which is by going to the gym an hour a day. And controlling your eating. Especially, do not eat candy.

It's been hard to keep reading your column and your blog knowing how much you hate fat people. Of course, you're not too fond of boomers, but we've found common ground on that score before — I'm the one who brings up how much our generations have in common.

So here are some observations, loosely based on the idea that fat is often in the eye of the beholder.

Observation 1. Last Tuesday at tennis practice I looked three courts down and noticed a new player. True to your study results, the first things I noticed were her weight — she's almost as big as I am, which is a size 2x skirt — and her clothes — she was wearing navy shorts and a red shirt, not exactly the latest tennis fashion.

Half an hour later, though, she and I were on the same court doing a serving drill, and, Penelope, this woman has the most beautiful, traditional serving motion I've seen in 30 years! Her overheads have that same stroke too — the kind developed over years of practice. As we talked afterward, it turned out she had once layed tennis at the same numerical level as a teaching pro — 5.0 for those who care.

Observation 2.
In your article and all the comments above, we never did define overweight or obese. For all I know, you might get hysterical when you hit a size 12.

Some of the comments sounded to me as if they were describing someone who weighs 300-350 pounds or more.

For the record, I wear size 18 pants and weigh about 200 pounds. The highest-profile financial analyst in St. Louis, the one that gets quoted on NPR every time the markets hiccup or there's a merger is probably twice my size. The headhunter who would most like to place me somewhere usually sees me in tennis clothes.

Finally, I'm sure you know better than anyone that it's possible to look as much as 30 pounds heavier or thinner depending on how you dress for business — hell, I can do ten just by wearing tennis clothes the fit — and an awful lot of folks are clueless about how much someone else weighs in any case.

Now then . . .

Here are some thought-starters for a column on how to mitigate the stereotype:

1. Since the stereotype is that fat folks don't exercise, I would think it would help to make sure people know you play a sport, especially if you're good at it. But don't give the impression the sport is more important than the work.

(I have had trouble with this one but am pulling back into balance. My favorite lack-of-discipline story: the time last year I couldn't say no to three tennis games in a row — that's four and a half hours on the court!)

2. Dress extra-well, and use those tips for creating the long vertical line: top, pants, shoes all one color, single-breasted open jacket or cardigan in a contrasting color.

3. Ditto for grooming.

4. Energy and enthusiasm! Fat people are supposed to be lazy, so you be the first one up out of your chair, the first one to the door, holding it for other people — you get the idea. If your feet hurt or you're otherwise in pain, that's a medical issue. You deserve the right care and proper pain relief, but do NOT discuss it at the office unless you know someone else has it too. Same with chronic fatigue.

(BTW — chronic pain and fatigue, and neurological disorders in general, are direct contributors to obesity. The specific culprits: sleep deprivation, pain (sugar is a painkiller) and most of the meds.)

5. Just like the thin kids — get out there and work with the peeps! You'll never get anywhere hiding in your office behind your computer.

* * * * * *
Hi, Mary. Thank you for taking the time to post this comment. The information here is useful and informative. You make a nice point about how it's good to give people ways to solve their problems beyond just go to the gym. I am probably not the best person to write that stuff, but you do a good job. So this is a nice addition to the blog. Thank you.

–Penelope

Columns like this one condone stereotyping and prejudice. You should be ashamed! Being overweight does not make you sloppy or stupid just as being thin and attractive doesn't make you smart and organized. Nor does it give you flexibility, many people have one hour for lunch and by the time you hit the gym, shower, drive back and forth you've exceeded your hour. Or they have kids to pick up from day care. You are assuming that everyone has free time and minimal obligations which is NOT the case. You should be encouraging people to evaluate each other based on intelligence, ethics, personality fit and effectiveness because those are the only things that should count in the work place. Why don't you try promoting helpful values and solutions instead of approving harmful stereotypes.

Just wanted to make a comment here- I am currently unemployed and I am overweight. I am 5'4 and around 200 pounds. However, I have a large frame and some muscle, so I am not all flab. I wear between a size 16 and 18 in pants, and medium size tops. Fortunately, (knock on wood) weight has not appeared to be an issue in getting a job offer. I was just given a job offer today for a temp position. Granted, I am not an insanely huge person, and I am sure that helps, but at the same time, I am not some skinny little nothing. I think because I am in accounting, and in a field that requires skill and attention to detail, that these are things that are valued more than whether someone is overweight or not. I can say that if I am ever in a position to hire someone ( I have been in situations where
make a recommendation), I would focus on 1) is the person interested in doing the job 2) do they have a good attitude, 3) Do they have the skills needed to do the job, and if they are sort some skills, do they have the ability to learn the job.
Granted, if someone came in wearing shorts, and a sweaty t-shirt, versus being dressed business professional, or business casual, that would influence me. However, I think about the movie, "The Pursuit of Happyness" and how circumstances forced the main character to show up at an interview wearing paint spattered pants and an undershirt. But, he was able to show his ability and that is probably what really should matter, but I realize that most people are focused on looks because that is how our society is.

this article was incredibly judgmental….and i'm not going to waste my time responding to a self-absorbed woman who wants everyone else to conform to their ideal… not everyone has blonde hari blue eyes and is 50 lbs!!!

Mary,

I liked your comment as well. To respond to your aside –

"Some of the comments sounded to me as if they were describing someone who weighs 300-350 pounds or more."

In my case, that's true. I weigh about 400lbs. :)

This whole thread reminds me of one of the most frustrating conversations I ever had. Imagine a slumped, newly minted paralegal applying for corporate law jobs in a black polyester skirt, worn cotton sleevless sweater (displaying blotchy arms) and worn-out flats…

She spent years studying to become a paralegal and is frustrated that she can't get a job in a corporate law office. She complains that it's "unfair" to go for "eye candy" when she's just as qualified. She points out that her IT and computer-programmer friends wear jeans and t-shirts to work, so why can't she?

I asked why she didn't study IT if she wanted to dress like her IT friends. She didn't get it.

Is she fat? Yes, about a size 16 or 18 – hard to tell when most of what she wears is country-style hand-me-downs from her mother. But I don't think that's it. Camryn Manheim was a size 22 on The Practice, for Christ's sake.

I recently read Gina Kolata's book "Rethinking Thin," and that, coupled with my own life experience, has led me to the following conclusion. I understand it may be controversial, but I'm having difficulty seeing why the logic doesn't hold up.

Being fat is very similar to, if not pretty much the same as, being gay. However, our society has evolved, over the last 20 years in particular, towards an understanding that discriminating against gay people is wrong. However, we are moving in the opposite direction with fat people.

Why being fat and being gay are similar:

There are spectrums of weight and sexual orientation, but at some level (we know it when we see it) someone is either gay or they're not, and someone is either fat or they're not. I'm not talking about people who need to lose 15 pounds, or the people who were LUGs or BUGs. I am talking about the people who have lived their adult lives as obese people or as openly gay people.

Correlations between weight/sexual orientation and health risk factors: Not all fat people are unhealthy or will encounter obesity-related health problems. Not all gay people engage in unhealthy behaviors or will encounter health problems attributable to their sexual behavior. Not all skinny/straight people are healthy or avoid risky behaviors. Yet health reasons are used as a proxy to treat fat people/gay people as less worthy members of our society.

It (weight/sexual orientation) may be genetically determined. It may be environmental. We don't really know, but it's almost certainly some complex combination of both. We've set up a dichotomy in this society where that if you can argue "I'm born that way," your deviations from the norm are more accepted. Why is that? We respect religious diversity, yet for adults, religion is a choice. We may be born into a religious family and surrounded by cultural norms that guide our religious beliefs, but ultimately, we all choose whether or not to embrace religion.

About that "choice" thing: we've pretty much decided that people don't choose to be gay. Why? Straight people don't choose to be straight. Why would someone choose to deviate from the norm in a way that subjects them to societal abuse, discrimination, and in some cases, physical harm? Yet we're convinced that fat people choose to be fat.

However, with gay people, we do acknowledge that while gay people don't choose to be gay, they can choose whether or not to act upon their true feelings. They can remain closeted and celibate, miserable and lonely, or they can come out, pursue same-sex relationships and try to be as happy as anyone else in the world. Fat people can't exactly remain in the closet — their weight is as visible as their race or gender (if not more so, given the levels of ambiguity that can arise between one's self-identification and external presentation.) But they can either pursue the path of self-loathing, withdrawing from society, constantly dieting, and remaining constantly aware of — and miserable about — their weight. Or they can accept it for what it is — one facet of who they are — and ask the same from the people around them.

Some claim there can be "ex-gays." After a dose of intensive therapy, religion, denial, whatever it takes, you can pronounce yourself cured of your so-called deviance, ready to engage in "normal" heterosexual relationships. Some claim the very notion that people are able to cure themselves (or should need to cure themselves) is particularly offensive and should be attacked at every opportunity. Some claim that if you're fat, you can choose to lose weight, and then you won't be fat any more. If you haven't done that, it's evidence that you're lazy or morally deficient.

So now we have all of these ex-gays and formerly obese people running around, waiting for their bodies to betray them at every opportunity. Science shows that at a cellular level, that once fat cells have been created, they don't go away. They're just waiting for the next opportunity to burst into corpulence. What Kolata's book describes is all the ways that we're finding out that fat people who lose weight don't become thin people — they just become fat people in thin bodies. The level of constant vigilance required to stay thin and to overcome long-established (and not well understood) metabolic processes goes far beyond what we all understand to be the willpower or self-discipline our society expects of functional adults.

As a society, we've moved in the direction of no longer expecting that superhuman discipline of gay people to remain celibate (unless they're Catholic priests, but that's a whole different matter) because we recognize that it condemns gay people to a miserable, unhappy life in denial of what we recognize is their true nature.

Yet we demand the same thing of fat people: deny yourself the ability to fully satisfy a basic human need shared by everyone (hunger) to meet someone else's expectation of how you should live your life. And if you don't, you don't deserve to have a job, because employers should have the right to select people who look good. You don't deserve to have adequate health care, because you're a strain on the system for the rest of us who are morally superior to you. You don't deserve to have kids, because you're probably going to pass along your fatness to them and condemn them to an unhealthy, unhappy life too. You don't deserve to be loved, because you're probably going to leave your partner spouseless someday.

Liberal/progressive people find this logic reprehensible when it's applied to gay people (and call those who employ it homophobic, rightly so) but personally engage in it on a daily basis when it's applied to fat people. If you really believe that all fat people are going to die sooner, isn't that punishment enough? Why make their presumably shorter time on earth miserable too? Is it just because you're insecure about being judged on your looks, and need someone to feel morally superior to?

Gay people have successfully applied many of the lessons of the civil rights movement, and have fought until sexual orientation has been included in anti-discrimination laws. They are continuing to try to get rid of societal prejudice, and with every measure of public opinion, there is progress. They have been criticized for hijacking the civil rights movement, and for glossing over the differences between sexual orientation and race and gender.

It is time for fat people to toss aside their self-loathing and demand an end to some of this absolutely ridiculous prejudice. The next time someone tosses out this crap about "you choose to be this way," or "society is justified in discriminating against fat people because…[you pick the reason]," it's time to find out whether the person making the statement is a homophobe, and whether they would ever make a similar remark within earshot of a gay person. If the answer is no, then it's time for some education. If we can pick off all the skinny pro-gay people, then that just leaves the homophobes, and believe you me, quite a few of them are fat.

In't this true for any aspect of appearance? I've always thought that people who are naturally attractive have a far easier time succeeding in the business and social worlds than people who are not good-looking. Couldn't bad teeth, weird hair, tattoos, piercings, bad skin, etc. all detract from one's image? It is human nature to be attracted to magnetic, good-looking people, and no matter how unfair and wrong it is, I don't know how anyone can really change that.

This post and its comments have inspired me to expand my business from cute shirts for small-medium-large-wearing people to cute shirts for the plus-sized community who have a lot of trouble finding cute clothes. This will happen by next week, I can't wait to see how it works out.

Penelope talks often about the importance of focusing and finding a tight niche market. I have a hunch this one will be very successful! Thanks!!

all these comments are so interesting… being fat, i can't say that i've experienced feeling held back by my weight.

it may definitely make a difference in first impressions. but i have never felt that people meet me and automatically assume i'm sloppy, dirty, ignorant, or untalented.

regardless of what you look like, if you're great at what you do, that's the only thing that matters. i am notorious for doing my own thing at work, not fitting into the corporate mold – but my work speaks for itself.

i am respectful, smart, no-bullshit, and i work incredibly hard. i'm proud to say that my work speaks for itself. i am an asset to a company, and i don't need to weigh 120 pounds for that to be true.

of course, if you're fat AND you suck…. well, there's not much to be done about that.