Get pregnant at 25 if you want a high-powered career
Every once in a while a high-profile woman will divulge the dirty underbelly of trying to be a woman in the work world. I remember the first time I saw it. It was when Brenda Barnes stepped down from a huge career at Pepsi to be with her kids. And she announced that she felt like a bad parent spending so much time away from them. Thereby implying that the other moms with huge jobs like hers were also ignoring their kids.
This week, there is another ground-breaking example of a woman stepping down from a very high place: Anne-Marie Slaughter (pictured above). She is a dean at Princeton and she was director of policy planning in the State Department. She wrote a breathtaking article in the Atlantic titled, Why Women Still Can’t Have it All, about stepping down from her State Department job to take care of her two teenaged boys. She says, in the article, that she is taking much better care of them when she is not away from them.
This shouldn’t be groundbreaking to say. But after twenty years of deafening feminist diatribe it is actually controversial to say that a mom is a better mom if she is home with her kids. So that in itself makes the Atlantic article worth reading.
Here’s another thing Slaughter does that I love. She takes down Sheryl Sandberg for telling other women to be like her and spend their days working insane hours for startups. I have written before about how ludicrous is is for Sandberg to think she’s a role model for women when there is a huge amount of research to say that women who have kids want part-time jobs. Sandberg assumes that women want high-powered jobs like hers and don’t have those jobs because there are no role models. Slaughter sets the record straight: women don’t want high powered jobs because they want to be home with their kids.
It’s ridiculous that it’s controversial to say that most women want to parent differently than most men. It’s ridiculous because there is scientific basis for this and a social basis for this and the women who argue against it are always women who do not have school-aged kids and a high powered job. So you know what? If you are going to argue in the comments section that women can have a high-powered job and school aged kids, please qualify yourself with the age of your kids and the number of hours you work per week.
Here’s how many hours I worked at my startup when I had young kids: 80. And my investors thought I was part-time—which I was, compared to how many hours other startup founders work. I’m just putting a number out there so you can have a benchmark for what high-pressure, high-powered jobs demand. Slaughter traveled almost nonstop for her job. And so do most people at that level.
So I loved Slaughter’s article. And I loved that women are coming forward to say that it is literally impossible to have a high-powered career while you have young kids, if you want to be involved in your kids’ lives. The best thing older women can do for younger women right now is to tell the truth. It’s hard to tell the truth because if you are trying to do the high-powered job and the kids, you will kill your career by admitting that it’s impossible.
But here’s the truth for women: You should not plan your life so that you work until you’re 30 and then have kids, and also have a huge career. Because you will be taking care of kids during the very time when all the men you worked with are working harder and longer hours than ever before. Men who have kids are in a great position to climb the ladder. They have wives at home. Women cannot go full speed ahead until the kids are grown up. Slaughter has great evidence for this. But you should be able just to look around and see that this truth. My favorite example: All the male Supreme Court Justices have families. Two of the three women do not. And the one who does, Ruth Bader Ginsburg, did not start her career until her kids were grown.
Slaughter lays out a great plan. It’s tucked into the article, among a lot of other calls to action. But she says, if you want to have a huge career, have kids when you are 25 so your kids will be grown when you are 45, because there will still be time to have a huge career.
Of all the ideas for having a big career and being a mom, this is the best one out there. Young women should use what we’ve learned so far and do things better than the generations that have come earlier. It’s too late for Generation Y since most of them have past the age when they would need to be finding a guy to marry. But there’s hope for the women of Generation Z.
Women from age 20 to 25 should focus on finding a guy to marry, and then build your career slowly, while you have kids. Which is what other generations did—they just started having kids five or ten years later.
This also means women will need to start dating men who are older than they are. This also seems like a good idea. Men, of course, love younger women. But more than that, women who are in their twenties are in their prime in terms of self-confidence. They are physically very desirable, and they are doing better at work than men. Men, on the other hand, are at their nadir of self-confidence in their twenties. They are not making money, which is something that is very valuable on the dating scene. And they are not doing as well as women at work. Men look way better in their 30s when the women have left the workplace and the men have a more solid grip on their earning power.
So men and women dating in their 20s is a lot like girls and boys slow dancing when their are 12. The girls are so much farther along developmentally that it’s absurd.
So look. Here’s my first post directed solely at Generation Z women: Spend the years from age 20-25 focused on getting married. There is no evidence that doing well in school during that period of your life will get you worthwhile benefits. There is no evidence that waiting longer than 25 makes a better marriage. And there is not evidence that women who do a great job early in their career can bank on that later in their career. There is evidence, though, that women who focus on marriage have better marriages. There is evidence that women who have kids earlier have healthier kids, and there is evidence, now, that women who have grown children by age 45 do better at getting to the top in the workforce than all other women with kids.
Penelope: It seems like you glossed over the fact that she mentioned having kids in your early 20s still involved some tough trade-offs. She mentions a lot of careers (law, tenured professorships) are simply not open to women just entering them in their early 40s.
Personally, I’m a guy so maybe I don’t get it…but parenting is a full time job, so why would anyone want the stress of working full time and raising kids and think that’s a great life??? To me, it just sounds like a lot of stress and nonsense. If you want a high powered career and you’re a woman, skip the kids. Life is easier that way.
Your post is truly informative for me and i am so grateful to you for sharing this informative post here. really great job done by you
Penelope, may I suggest that you create a decision tree, employing all the if-this/then-this suggestions of your readers.
This decision tree would be elaborate, with lots of intersections or branches of the tree . . .
For example, IF you have school debt, THEN don’t buy a house/have kids till it is paid down by 75% (or something like that). (STOP)
And IF the job market is poor in your area of education/expertise, THEN a) go back to school; b) or use this natural time-out to get pregnant (or whatever).
IF you are in a stable relationship for 4 years, THEN consider getting pregnant.
IF you have enough savings to carry you through for the duration of a(n extended) maternity leave, THEN plan for a pregnancy.
IF both mother and father agree, THEN the father can become the stay-at-home dad for x-#-of-years.
IF the mother wants to be the stay-at-home parent, THEN the father must have the kind of job that will maintain all payments.
The other side of the decision tree would be the career path.
At some points, the two paths might intersect, indicating that you now have it all.
I love this Chris.
Penelope, I can appreciate your thinking but I feel upset reading this too! Why? Because I am 25, in a successful career (achieved much much more than most women my age), sophisticated, good looking, well groomed, well travelled, independent….all of that crap that makes and attractive woman…i would LOVE to step back from my demanding career and have babies now but I can’t find a man!
I was just dumped by a 36 year old after a year together whereby I rally thought he was the one and ready to settle down. He could give no reason for breaking it off. Everyone I know just thinks he is “gun shy” because he knew I was ready to get serious.
So how do young women deal with the fact even men in their 30s don’t want to settle down and have kids…especially if they are successful, good looking and have money. What incentive is there for them to tie themselves to one woman?
I just think all women are screwed. We can’t get a man when we’re old (or by the time we do, our clock has run out or having kids fucks up our careers) …or we’re young and ready to have babies but can’t find a man willing! It makes me feel so depressed. I’m about to follow my career and move to London because I’m sick of chasing men….I just don’t feel you have any control over these things. It happens when it happens and we need workplaces and governments to support that…and women need to stop blaming themselves! We feel so much guilt and worry about relationships and children. Do men feel such guilt and worry? NO!
I am late in on this article but I applaud it. Regardless of the when you you have kids or not, what is true is you can’t have it all. I focused on getting a husband at about 30, then had my son when I was about 35 and didn’t have the second one because by the time I had the guts, I was nearly 40 and I thought, “this is not happening.” Since having my son (with my husband), my job decisions are different and my priorities are different. He is just starting high school right now, and I can sense we are entering a complicated phase where we really need to pay attention to this boy. He needs us to help him navigate these waters and to notice when he comes home a little stoned or tipsy (anticipating only, not currently). So there you have it. In hindsight, I felt I entered the marriage/kid thing late. And as a bonus comment, lots of my friends who entered the marriage kids thing late… ended up in tons of expensive and heart breaking fertility procedures. So there is much logic to having your kids before 30 vs. after 30.
What P doesn’t mention often is that “getting married young & having children young” for HER has meant also getting divorced, & then marrying someone who has been physically abusive to her…
That is not good for her children–no matter what.
So, I got married at 20 to my high school sweetheart, but I have stayed married to him (39 years now) & did have 2 children very young (finished having biological children when I was just 26, but we were also foster parents so feel like I’ve had many more children) & our daughter who is a law prof married to a lawyer w/his own practice w/one other partner has decided not to have children.
She’s 36 & has been married for 9 years, but she realizes that her career is too demanding to be a good mother & her husband also has a demanding career.
They have made the choice to have wonderful, successful careers & not to have children & short-change the children. I respect that decision–though I think my daughter would be a wonderful mother. I also agree w/her that she would not be happy as she would feel guilty when she wasn’t working & then guilty when she was working & not spending time w/her child(ren).
She clerked for a Federal Judge for a year after law school before starting private practice (which she did for 6 years or so before becoming a law prof) & the Judge was a wonderful judge but had several children & 3 nannies & a chef & a personal assistant (her husband also had a high-powered career) & my daughter just thought that if you are going to have children you ought to raise those children.
And you ought to have a stable marriage in which to raise them.
Just a thought–consider having a stable marriage before considering children.
Oh yes, I do admit I don’t have a “high-powered” career (so maybe my thoughts don’t count as I’m not “important”.) I’ve been mostly a mother & worked part-time teaching & then started my own business that was very small scale so that it didn’t take me away from my priority of raising our children.
My husband made a lot of sacrifices for our children, too–riding a bike to work, taking a sack lunch, buying clothes at Goodwill–even though he had a Ph.D. & good job after his post-doc he was very intent on saving money for the children’s college education, & braces, & family trips.
Sorry you haven’t found a man who wants to share parenting responsibilities equally.
Sorry you feel the need to justify this by saying this is biologically inevitable. It isn’t. It’s socially constructed and you’re trying to perpetuate it to justify how your life turned out. But the writing is on the wall: men don’t want to work 100 hours either. They want to be there for their kids.
The issue is that in America it’s impossible to be a parent (especially at the helicopter parent level that you seem to subscribe to and that plenty of studies show is actually detrimental to children) and have a high-power career.
Find a real man who can cook, clean, and be an equal parent. Move to Scandinavia where both parents can split 18 months of parental leave. Those are real solutions. Telling women to have a baby by age 25 and then struggle to do it all by themselves is terrible advice.
YES! THANK YOU! Let’s stop talking about this old debate of how WOMEN can balance family and work, and starting talking instead about how society can make it easier for both men and women to have it all. Ultimately, this is an old debate and one that I’m honestly sick and tired of hearing, because our socioeconomic system just doesn’t make it possible for either or both parents to “have it all.” So if you want to be revolutionary and give people “permission” to want to have a great career and a great home life, let’s fight for a change in the way our socioeconomic system works. Let’s raise the topics of shared parenting and paternity leave, of more flexible work schedules to accommodate the demands of having a family and being available for your kids. More than anything, let’s start conceiving of men and women as having the same needs and desires in life, which is to feel satisfied both at work and at home. And let’s stop telling women to make the sacrifice and find a male breadwinner to make theirs dreams of a family a possibility. That’s not a lesson I would EVER teach my daughters.
Great post. Penelope just described the very issue that’s causing women and men to not ever be happy with one another. If relationships were really about love why wouldn’t women conspire to be with a guy her own age who wasn’t as socially conscious or mature as her? If there was really love happening wouldn’t they both look past all the “I’m more mature than you” bologna to really find that love, or am I just lamenting the next plot for a cheeky romantic comedy staring Kate Hudson?
This article does a great job bringing to light in a very politically correct way what Matt Ridley’s The Red Queen has done to describe the same thing scientifically. Women want to mate with the best and want to ensure their genes live on.
Hence why we see older men getting with younger women. Penelope is probably the ONLY person who has not been afraid to bring topics up like this. Women want the good job and they want to be surrounded around the powerful Alpha males that provide that power. Sheryl Sandberg is lying through her teeth when she says she enjoys having no time to care for her child. She just loves being in control. But eventually even that turns to loneliness.
The rest of you may live in denial about why you chose this or that relationship and you may be repulsed at what Penelope has stated, but she’s don’t beating around the bush.
btw, I’m a huge fan of the blog. I even directed my older sister, who’s baby boy just turned one, to the home schooling section of your blog. Keep up the amazing work.
I don’t know why but I find it very hard to accept this article as the truth. Firstly it assumes a bit too much. Whatever you say about women, you have to understand that there are those women who actually do not want to have a kid. This may not be because they’re so career driven that they don’t want kids, but it just may be that they generally don’t want kids. There’s another gender stereotype that exists – that all women want children. They don’t.
Secondly, suggesting that having a kid at 25 makes it easier to continue a career at 45 is just assuming too much. Firstly, it isn’t cakewalk to resume a career 20 years after you reached a peak period in your life. For instance, it’s a big difference to do a Bachelors right after high school than doing it 25 years after high school. The amount of knowledge you gain during your teenage years is bound to lessen by the time you are 45. It’s the same with jobs. You could have been the sharpest university student at 22 but it’s not to say that you’ll still be the sharpest person around at 45. Everything needs polishing – including your knowledge and experience. At 45 you may have wisdom, but you will lack job experience (which is an essential thing if you wish to go up the career ladder). Of course I salute those women who could climb up the ladder after 45 but they are exceptional. Not every average woman would find it easy to resume a career at that age and make it big. After taking care of kids of 20 years, can you imagine getting a sudden career craving? That must be limited to a minority.
Thirdly, yes life was simple back then when women married but those things seem perfect from our point of view because we don’t realise how much those women had to give up at that time. Women have never been treated as equals to men. They have had to sacrifice their interests, freedom, dreams to take care of families. That definitely speaks volumes about the strength of women but such acts should not be glorified. Why must women have to sacrifice everything? We’re starting another whole new circle of inequality again.
I appreciate the decision of women who want to take care of their children first and then choose a career. But even if they do have children early, why must THEY be the ones to give up careers. Don’t they have husbands who should also be willing to put as much effort into raising their children? Both may have to make sacrifices – one making all sacrifices sounds just plain ridiculous. Shouldn’t men be making those sacrifices too? Having kids late is definitely a bad thing – it increases chances of the kids getting Autism or Down’s Syndrome. However, if you’re career driven and don’t want kids, it shouldn’t hold any stigma. After all, no two women are the same. Not all women want kids.
Well done Penelope, don’t leave your babies in child care, get a cat and dog and you can leave them in the laundry. I have done the children, then the career, 48 and doing well in my career, 3 university educated adult children and 1 to finish high school next year. Now to get them to understand the importance of the mum being there to care for them…
there are many paths. and to shove yourself into one that is for someone else can only bring misery and pain. because as much as you might want to be ready for what everyone else appears to have, you may in fact have more work to do.
I think that if you are raised really well, with a parents with a lot of mutual respect then the get married early and have kids path is the one! But for most of us it takes a little more time to work out the mess of growing up without much support and models of healthy relationships. We will be constantly looking for the ways to work and live well with others.
Again, I can look back and wish that I had graduated from my ivy league college and not gone on to make my own company, publish a book, produce a tv pilot and produce over 100 events. But I was an overachiever. I thought that would bring me more love. And as anyone who is an overachiever knows, the love that those accomplishments bring are fleeting.
What these choices did bring me was an incredible amount of experience that makes me more qualified for jobs outside corporate america. and for that I am seriously grateful. because also, for people who grew up on the kind of sensitive side of a struggling family, corporate america is just not a reasonable option. nor is something like sitting at the #2 position at Facebook but without a seat on the decision making board. too infuriating.
so while i don’t think it’s necessary to have any philosophical kind of basis for these decisions, no isms help you out when it comes to making your life better tomorrow than it is today, i do think that being realistic about what you are actually able to sit with in the world is ok too. if you’re dad was kind of a jerk to your mom, and your mom was kind of a jerk back it’s going to be difficult for you to sit with jerky men and women in your life. you’re going to want to go out there and show the world what it would be like if there were no jerks. and that takes a whole lot of guts and sometimes sacrifice.
This is totally true! After 20 years of raising kids while I juggled a part time (40 hour a week) business, I’m now ramping it up to more hours, more money, more travel, and yes, more stress.
But it’s the right time. My spouse who was the major earner for the first 20 years, is now taking primary responsibility for the home. He could never had done that when the kids were little, but with one teenager and one college student, it works.
I’m 48, if my kids were still young, and both were at home, I could never do this. Nor would I want to. Bottom line, there’s nobody to be the Mom but the mom.
It’s both a blessing and a curse.
Lucky me. I did one thing right by accident. I’m 48 and my daughter is off to college in the fall. I am finally able to invest almost all of my time into my own endeavors.
Finally, after 15 years of doing freelance corporate writing (which pays the bills quite nicely) I am working some of the lower-paying-but-what-I consider-more-fun work into the mix–food and travel writing. I am only able to do this because a. I now have the time, and b. over the last 18 years we put aside enough money to pay for college tuition.
I don’t think it would have worked in the opposite order. Plus when I was younger, I didn’t know what it was I wanted to do.
At 22 all I wanted to do was be a mommy. It never occurred to me that I wanted to write and photograph and travel and experience.
Having kids younger gives you the time you need to really get to know yourself–then pursue your passions when you are old enough to understand what they really are.
It appears to me you’re missing some points here. Perhaps because I’m replying as a male.
You seem to take having children for granted – in other words, you’re assuming children are inevitable, and that all women ( & men ) want to have them. How about just don’t have kids at all? isn’t that an option?
You say that having children at a younger age is better for the woman later in her life, since later she may have a chance to invest more time in her workplace. But how about the kids? There is some research that verifies when women have kids later in life, THE KIDS are better off – for eample, because their parents are likely more emotionally mature.
Also implied in your post is the presence of the biological clock – you seem to be saying that having children at a younger age is better for women. While that may be true, I feel from a man’s perspective, the reverse may be true. There may be an ’emotional clock’ in men that works in the opposite direction than a female ‘biological clock’ – and that men who wait until they are older to be fathers, generally do a better job at parenting, because they are both more established financially, and also more emotionally mature.
So I didn’t think you were considering these issues well enough from the perspective of either a woman’s husband, or her kids.
Yeah, I don’t know this blogger but i’m willing to put money down on 2 things.
1) She didn’t read more than the headlines and the other readers comments about the 6 page article thus totally missing the point.
2) All she’s interested in is posting something controversial about the article as fast as she can before someone else beats her too it. Standard douchebaggery journalism of it’s easier to report it first rather than to report it right.
The section titles:
“It’s possible if you sequence it right.”,
“It’s possible if you marry the right person.”,
and “It’s possible if you are just committed enough.”,
are part of the over arching chapter “The Half-Truths We Hold Dear”. Enough said.
I highly suggest giving the original article itself a read if you haven’t, http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2012/07/why-women-still-can-8217-t-have-it-all/9020/#
You’ll not only be angry about what she said, but also furious about how badly she has misrepresented the meaning of it.
I know I’m pissed that Penelope dares claim to have read Slaughter’s empassionate, thoughtful, presentation of life choices, views of the current economic structure, social stigmas surrounding high commitment jobs, and parenting for both sexes; then getting the message so terribly wrong.
The ideas, absolutes, and stereotypes in Penelope’s blog post are exactly the issues Slaughter’s speech is trying to confront as well as combat…
I love this post, but I also think I take issue with a little of it as well. I have a Wharton MBA and a 17 year old boy. I don’t currently have a high powered job, but I have during the course of raising my son. I also got my MBA while my son was 18 months to 4 years old. Only one other woman in the program at the time was like me. All the men with kids had stay at home wives. My husband was in the program with me. I can tell of at least one professor who not only was unsympathetic about my situation, but he also made it worse compared to my cohorts because I was dumb enough to ask him for a fair solution to a scheduling problem. Long story I’d still like to stick the professor in the eye over.
I was young compared to my friends when I had my son — my closest friend just had his first a little over a year ago. And I feel sorry for my friend in a way because I feel like I’ve got all my life ahead of me, while he’s still going to have to beat his daughter’s boyfriends off and split his money between his older dude healthcare and his daughter’s college fund.
However, I get prickly when anyone says that women need to choose anything based on what other people have chosen for themselves. I’m all for looking at role models, but not to blindly follow their paths. Instead, I like to decide what parts of what they’ve done would work for me and what might not. And I don’t think any woman should have to defend herself for her choices unless someone else is getting hurt for what she’s done.
I think a fulfilled woman makes a better mother. One who choses her life based on the “shoulds” of anyone else is likely to feel manipulated and angry. The more we can empower each other to choose for ourselves and not for how anyone else might look at us, the better everyone, including our kids will be.
Yes, I loved Slaughter’s article too. But having kids at 25? It may work for a ridiculously disciplined and determined “to have it all” few, but it’s not a good advice for an entire generation. People (including young women!) need time to grow up, learn who they are, what they want and what they can live with, explore and have fun.
Also, hormones work differently in different people, and not everyone is dying to have kids in their early twenties. Having kids just because its good timing for one’s career sounds like a disgusting, even if practical, thing to do.
Hi Penelope,
What do you have to say about Marissa Meyer’s being hired as a CEO WHILE being pregnant! She is 37. Looking forward to your post on this, cause I think it defies your opinions.
I guess every women have different priorities in life. Some, their families & others their careers. Nevertheless, I salute them both.
ANY life events don’t happen with a specific formula. Taking the “have kids by 25” advice as advice is pointless. People should do what they want when they are ready for it… there are going to be upsides and downsides to ANY decision (or accident) made.
Also, there are plenty of people who don’t want children.
I’ve recently discovered this blog and have found your voice to be incredibly refreshing.
BUT …
After reading much of the Atlantic article, I’d like to point out a few things in response to the assertions made at the bottom of this post:
1) Not all single women are avoiding marriage and having children to focus on careers. It’s a bit of a slap in the face to women in their late 20s and into their 30s who have not yet met a spouse. I did not meet my wonderful husband until he was 27 and I was 28. Yes, that probably makes me a late bloomer, but it wasn’t by choice, I can tell you. If I could have met him and married him by 22 I would have!
2) Which reminds me … in many ways, my now 30 year-old husband is more mature than I am, despite my being a little older. Older man does not necessarily mean wiser and more mature man. I’ve known plenty of immature older men.
3) Being married and childless is not always a conscious decision. Yes, many women try to get financially stable or focus on a career before trying to start a family, but even so, 15% of couples, like my husband and I, are child-free because they are struggling with infertility.
I applaud the spirit of this post, however. It’s my own personal battle song to buck societal norms and make contributions to our bottom line and build a “career” in non-traditional ways. I’m entrepreneurial. I am a writer and blogger. Though I can’t pay the bills with what I make (or don’t make) currently, I’m an incredibly lucky gal who gets to pursue her interests and passions with the full support of her husband, even if I can’t help pay the bills. Yet.
I’m doing this on purpose. I have never felt like I had sacrificed the potential for a high-power career and breaking the glass ceiling in favor of deliberately carving out a lifestyle and workstyle that will easily allow me to care for our children, should we be blessed with them one day. So I’m very glad to hear other women encouraging the younger generations to buck the status quo and disregard the common misconception that a career defines a person.
Just, please, don’t forget the silent minority of women who are not single or child-free by choice.
STOP telling women what they want, even if you are a woman. Women are not a homogenous group. Some women want to spend more time taking care of their kids and some women are perfectly content to let their husbands do that. This article totally discounts the role of men in child-care. There are also many women who don’t want to have kids and that should be ok too. This article is basically saying “get back in the kitchen”.
You miss the point that men and women should be equal caretakers for their children. Why should it be such an assumption that it is the woman’s duty to stay home and nurture their children while the husband goes out and works?
I really don’t need to hear any further evo-psych, half-baked explanations about this. My mother has been the primary money maker in my family for close to my entire life while my father has stayed home with us. The onus of childcare (if that’s in fact what one wants) should not be on one partner. . .financial planning and earning an income should not be a duty “assigned” by gender either. Why not write an article the jousts the archaic societal expectations instead?
I’m about to turn 27 and live with my boyfriend of two years. I just started my career and I have two cats I barely have the sanity to care for. I have no idea if I’ll be with my boyfriend long enough to have kids or even get married.
I find it amusing that so many women get offended by Penelope’s opinion. She states it boldly, true, but it’s her perspective, and that’s fine. I don’t think she is bossing you around or telling women what to do with their body. Women should be able to have opinions and not be scorned for saying what they think — especially by other women who may think of themselves as feminists. Of course there are going to be different scenarios. Why get all offended?
I look back on my life and see how I could have done things better, (I’m 58 now) but life is messy and we get thrown a lot of curve balls. I had my first baby at 27, my fifth and last at 41. I was super sick the entire 9 mos. of each pregnancy, I was on drugs to keep some food down. Who knew? At age 24, I thought I was going to be a full-time medical doctor. Things change, we take paths, we try our best. I appreciate Penelope’s opinion, I find it interesting — I’m not all angry about it.
I don’t think her opinon is offensive as such, it’s the way she phrases it. “Get pregnant at 25 if you want a high-powered career”. It sounds like an order. Nobody likes to be patronized. Of course it’s deliberately phrased that way to stir controversy.
Why not just not have fucking kids? Why is this never an option to people?
Shareholder & General Counsel of national law firm. Teenage son (soon to be 16) and 21 y.o (soon to be out of college [we can only hope]). Spent the last 25 years working 50-70 hours per week. My husband is a stay at home dad (which raised eyebrows 25 years ago, believe me). Looking back not sure how I survived or if I’d do it the same way again, but things turned out pretty well and the kids are loving, well adjusted, have goals, etc. Now, if I could just get them to pick up their dirty socks…
Hey, why not have kids at 15? That way, they’re out of the house by the time you’re in your thirties. Perfect!
And marrying men who are a lot older… uhm, so just when you’re on top in your career, you have to start staying at home to take care of an old men? Sounds absolutely fantastic.
There’s no way to ‘live up to your potential’ in everything. If you try to do everything, you won’t live up to your potential in ANYTHING. Choose what is important to you and don’t worry about the rest.
“If you are going to argue in the comments section that women can have a high-powered job and school aged kids, please qualify yourself with the age of your kids and the number of hours you work per week.”
I agree with a lot of this article, but I just want to give my own experience as an example of women having high powered jobs and raising young children: my mother had a high powered job (50 hours approx) throughout my secondary school time (so aged 11-18 at least, if not before) and we had my grandpa around, and she did great.
To note the obvious: high powered jobs generally mean 1) being able to hire a great nanny who is considered part of the family and 2) being able to be flexible about hours – perhaps this doesn’t apply in the US, but my mother was able to pick me up from school almost all the time and I never felt alone or without her when needed.
I do not believe that it is impossible to be a good mother and have a high powered job – moreover, I got ferried to every after school activity I can think of, not to mention that before I was 11, my mother worked harder as she was self-employed. (NB no father around for financial support)
Also – why can’t we admit that one size doesn’t fit all?! Some women do want part time jobs and some want to have high powered jobs and still be good parents.. It isn’t shamefull or sad to admit that women want the choice, and role models of both kinds are useful.
I personally hope to have a high powered job and children, but I don’t need to work 80 hours a week to do it, nor would I ever dream of it. No disrespect to all you Americans, but it’s a nonsense idea to think that working 80 hours a week is productive (various scientific papers back this up, they are in the public domain) or that it is something “impressive” or “virtuous”. IT’s a load of rubbish. If I worked an 80 hour week, I should be creating something that wins a Nobel prize. I understand some people [on really low incomes with families] will really have no choice, but isn’t the point of having a well paid job and having a team etc, is that you don’t work that many hours?! I honestly don’t get this concept, and I think it must really be an American thing – plus, you guys only get 2 weeks holiday off a year, roughly. That is insane. [And No, I’m not French!]
I would love to see that! and agree with you and I think women do a great dis-service to other women when they say we can have it all.
___
Kate, the founder of non-profit Plan To Get Pregnant
What about us women who are not ‘driven by hormones’ (as put forth by the author) to fulfill some societal ideal of having a family. I don’t want kids. I’m in my late 20’s. I’ve never wanted kids, my partner doesn’t want children. We both work – we both split the household duties. I am career driven and I can have it all. The advice given for women to have children young is ludicrous – sorry, but most people at that age are not stable and secure enough in their lives financially (especially in this economy) to do that. Also, what is wrong with the idea of women focusing on their careers and raising children? My mother did it.
That never would have worked for me. I never wanted to settle down until my 40’s. I was emotionally unstable for most of my 20’s. Just now in my 40’s I feel more grown up and feel ready to get married and possibly adopt a child. Everyone is different I guess.
I absolutely loved this blog. It makes complete sense and I agree one hundred percent with the point she is giving. Starting to have your children at the age of 25 is ideal and has a lot of positives. It is easier to get pregnant when you are that young and have healthier babies. But this is also a choice. Yes your career can always wait but depends on what your priorities are. Some women have a passion to be mothers and live their lives in dedication to raise kids. Where others have a bigger passion for having a career and becoming somebody and leave children and marriage as secondary. Having it all isn’t impossible, it just knowing when to sacrifice your job and your family.
I don’t know if I really like that post, because being a single women at age 27, reading it made feel kind of sad, and that’s not how any single woman at my age should feel.
You see, I planned it all… and then it went awfully wrong and the love of my life was a horrible partner, and we split up when I was 25. So all I did after that was study very hard, to get it off my mind. I had been sick all year and had no chance to go on a single date. And now, I am worried about finding a partner, of course, and I am focusing on my career but would like to have children some day…. you cannot schedule it all out. You cannot plan everything. You just have to embrace life, and accept things that don’t go according to plan. I am a scientist, so you know about the chaos theory? Things will fall into place, eventually, and if they don’t, find happiness in different things. Search for a man in your early twenties and make a baby, so you can focus on a career later on? That’s not always how life goes. Make a baby if you want one (and your partner as well). If not, don’t, no matter what your career plans are! Life is not only about this. I understand we are women and we are in a very difficult position having the double challenge and everything. But there’s no reason to be desperate if you will not be successful, or if you will have no kids or no partner. That’s just how it goes sometimes! Being able to accept that you are not in control sometimes definitely is the biggest challenge… bigger than career and babies.
I get the point of view I do not have to agree with it though. Your only looking at a couple of examples here and you don’t walk a mile in that other persons shoes. By categorizing and putting things in this context you are assuming things that may or may not be true. I however don’t think scaring women should work like this. Have kids when you want if it’s meant to be you will make it work. People are smarter than we want to give them credit for and some are way dumber than we want to admit the fact is we are a society that loves to judge, but can you really judge until you’ve lived it?
I drop a comment whenever I appreciate a post on a site or if I
have something to add to the discussion. Usually it is
triggered by the fire communicated in the article I browsed.
And on this post Get pregnant at 25 if you want
a high-powered career | Penelope Trunk Blog. I was actually moved enough to post a leave
a responsea response :-P I actually do have 2 questions for you if you do not mind.
Is it just me or does it seem like some of the remarks
come across as if they are written by brain dead folks? :-P
And, if you are posting on other places, I’d like to keep up with you. Could you make a list the complete urls of all your public sites like your Facebook page, twitter feed, or linkedin profile?
This is fabulous. I love balancing the realism of young motherhood with inspiration for the future. It’s my mission for all my fellow young moms!! I’m 26 with three children and taking it one step at a time. Motherhood does not limit me necessarily, but it does define me. And I’m ok with that.
Great article, but perhaps we should recognise that raising great kids is far more important than any “high powered” career that a woman could have. I know a lot of people who are “successful” in their careers whose kids are a mess.
Personally, I got a teaching degree and lived in some exotic places in my 20’s, got married at 30, (cause we met when we were 29) had 5 kids in my 30’s and went back to work at 42, when my youngest was 4. We were poor in those 1 income days, but I wouldn’t change it for anything. I now have 5 honour students, who are kind and generous and lots of fun to have around. (ok, the teenagers can be annoying, but I do not want perfect kids, I want great kids) I’be 48 when I comple my master’s this year. Maybe I still have time to have a “high powered career” but I can tell you that there is lots of meaningful work to be done right where I am.
There is not perfect plan, but we must put our kids first.
Great topic to discuss, but real science and nuances are much needed. “Brain Storm: The Science of Sex Differences” by Rebecca M. Jordan-Young is an excellent scholarly literary review of all the studies on the brain + gender differences. Extremely thorough, it dispels the faulty scientific methods of many of the studies that “proved” certain sex differences, and explains how society ran away with them. In the end, she shows that the science shows that men and women are much more alike than they are different. Really, really good read- with cold hard science.
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Although I can understand why the above advice has been given, I am 24 years old now and there is no way that I am ready for the commitment of marriage – let alone the responsibility of children! I want to have a successful career, but I don’t think that the best way for this to be achieved is by having kids early. I think I owe it to my future children to figure out myself first, before trying look after them.
Unfortunatley some marriages don’t last. Relationships are a work in progress – and being a good partner in a relationship is a work of progress. I was in a relationship from 18-22 and if I had married that person I would have made a huge mistake. I thought he was fabulous at the time but then I grew up.Thank god we didn’t have children! My point is, a female in her twenties is still discovering her identity and what she wants in another person. What you want changes as you get older – so getting married young and popping out some babies to me is a crazy idea. Not to say everyone young that marries and has kids is crazy – but that it’s pretty irresponsible to advise young women to focus on finding a husband rather than learning about themselves or expanding their experiences and minds.
Besides, why should a man have all the fun in his twenties and then have the benifit of marrying a hot woman in her twenties later? meanwhile the woman gets stuck with an old/fat/loosing-his-marbles husband when they are fifty/sixty. No thanks. I might not have a high flying career if I choose to have children or marry later – but I did read earlier today that happiness and fulfilment is found in relationships, not careers.
22 year old male here, and this is really a sad and depressing article, at least for me it is. I completely see and support all this article’s findings. Unlike most of my male counterparts, I’ve been largely a career focused individual myself. I earned a B.Sc Honors in Environmental Science. Unfortunately, now after graduating I’ve been really lost, and realizing I want a career change.
I’m an honest, hard-working, kind individual, but reserved and shy, (this is base on how other’s describe me). All my life, I’ve neglected my social life, and was withdrawn. I know women have been choosier because, I’ve never had a girlfriend and it’s always unrequited and unreturned for me, 3 times.
I see no hope for men in the modern world as we’re developmentally immature, and women simply have better hardware, focus and direction in life.
I think for me at least, I’ve thrown in the towel in the dating game, and since I have no plans on ever getting married. I will divert all my energy in my career to make money, even if it means going back to school. I won’t have a significant other to worry about.
As a former gifted, and talented child prodigy. This just shows, women have really dominated men in the modern world, even those men whom have an advantage.
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THANK GOD! I have finally found an article that reflects my life/career strategy. I work as a mining engineer for a gold mining company. I spend 42 days at work, working 12-15 hours per day surrounded by thousands of gross men but I love my job. Anyway, I’ve always thought having my kids young would allow me to get right back at ‘er in my 40’s! I am 23 and getting married in a few months so this article is very encouraging. I completely agree; young women do not need more powerful role models. For example, I do not know of one woman who balances a career in the mining industry and life. Young women just need to know the truth about careers and motherhood. We were the ones born with a uterus. End of story!
I had my baby at 18 and I have to admit I was scared. I was told I had ruined my life and that I’d end up being a welfare mom. I stuck it out and got an Associates degree in Business Marketing. However I have to also admit that while going to college I do regret leaving my daughter with a sitter for so long. I missed seeing her crawl around, learn how to walk, I even missed her first Halloween because my financial aid required me to work at the school for some time after class. So there were months at a time in which my daughter would go to sleep and wake up without seeing me. I had originally planned to go for a 4 year degree but I just couldn’t do it. Not only did she need me but I needed her. She and I had a pretty rough start and seeing her was the only thing that kept me going and I couldn’t do another day let alone another few months without her. I took a risk, started an advertising business and now I’m 30, married, work at home and I couldn’t be happier. The money is tight sometimes, I’m not going to lie, but everyday I get reminded I made the right decision. My daughter is 12 now. As any woman knows she’s going through a little bit of a hard time right now and I’m so happy I could be there for her whenever she needs me. However most of her classmates are latchkey kids. They walk home alone everyday or with a teenage brother or cousin who’s probably too immature to really look out for them. They have 40, 50, even 60 year old moms who are obviously overworked and over-stressed, and fathers who are seldom seen if at all. They have better cars, better clothes and better houses but their kids are still walking around the streets unsupervised late into the night. While my life may not be as glamorous and I would’ve preferred to have my daughter after college, I wouldn’t change it for all the money in the world. As my daughter gets older and doesn’t need me as much, I’m happy I’m still young enough to take my career or education to the next level.
So glad you’re giving up you’re ‘high powered’ jobs and stepping aside to let men handle it. I was going to do everything in my power to make sure you didn’t get that “promotion” because I just don’t “trust you”. Senator Lindsey Graham and I are pleased that you women are folding tent (a la Susan Rice) & slinking back to kitchen. Good. Very good. thank you. No more complaints about any ‘glass ceiling’ because it is of your own creation. Thank you.
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I can’t believe this piece. Not least that life rarely, if ever, unfolds according to plan. (At the age of 45, I’ve earned the right to make that observation.) I’ve worked in academia most of my adult life and can tell you that most students I’ve seen in that “magical” 20-25 age bracket do not have the emotional maturity to tackle marriage, much less parenthood in their mid-20s. Of course, there are exceptions. You shouldn’t be setting women up to feel like failures if they’re 25 and don’t have a ring. (As if women don’t beat themselves up enough over being single when their friends are pairing off.)
Am I biased? You betcha. I got married at 31 to my best friend. I don’t feel like I even hit my stride as a woman until 30. I’m sure that in certain parts of the world (and even the US) I’d have been considered an Old Maid, but thankfully that is not the case where I live.
This piece also presumes that every woman wants kids. The childfree option is a perfectly valid lifestyle choice for some women (not all…but some). It’s up to every woman to make the decisions that she feels are right for herself. Articles/blog pieces like this just feed the panic about not being able to have it all.