Veteran’s Day should be cancelled

A smart person knows what to say, a wise person knows whether or not to say it.

Great way to get lots of website traffic. What’s next in the career corner, taking up the defense against suicide bombers?

Your views are immature and insulting. Suit up, boot up and spend a few years in, then write your blog and see if you still feel like canceling V-day.

Why is it so hard to find the place to unsubscribe from this blog? I have tried and tried. Pen.. want to address that?

#1: Go to any promotion ceremony and the man/woman being promoted will thank his/her family for their support and sacrifice. And, as others have already posted, there is a Month of the Military Child, and Military Spouse Appreciation day, etc… Also, I’d invite you look a military wife in the eye and say that you feel sorry for her.
#2: Watch the PBS/Ken Burns series “The War” and/or visit the National WWII museum in New Orleans. This simple study of WWII and the national effort in that struggle will cleary demonstrate that the nation is grateful for the sacrifice of all, not just the servicemen.
#3: Not everyone who went to Vietnam was drafted. More like about 15%. And everyone who was drafted did not go to Vietnam. Again, do some more research.
#4: The GI Bill has been around since the late-1940’s. I also invite you to look a service member in the eye and tell them that they couldn’t make it otherwise.
#5: National Day of Service is a good idea. It can be in August. What do you do to serve our country besides blog?

See You Next Tuesday,
Drew

Heh. Not so good with dates, am I. Looks like I’d need a time machine to attend now. But I’m guessing you’ll be in DC pretty often. Email me and I’ll buy you a beer. Open offer.

First, if you’re going to write such a controversial post- maybe you should branch out and try to meet more than two veterans. TWO. Good grief. It might give you a better platform from which to speak.

Also, maybe if you talked to more veterans you might find that many of them don’t ‘celebrate’ the day. Meaning, they’re not the ones who are blowing up the party balloons because they don’t see what they’re doing as anything but something that they ought to do.

Second, as for no one joining the military unless they have no other better options? My father graduated from one of the top medical schools in the nation and spent 13+ years in the Army. As a plastic surgeon in the private sector he would have made 5-10x as much as he did in the Army. But you’re right- he probably didn’t have all that of a great career ahead of him, wouldn’t have made enough money to support his family, and must not have been genuinely admired for how well he had navigated his life.

Oh, and in case you’re wondering if all that moving around when I was younger traumatized me for life? Sure did… as I just joined the Army Reserve. Once again, you show how much ‘truth’ you speak – graduating from the University of Michigan with a degree that will easily make me 200k+ in the private sector but choosing to give up money so I can serve my country- that sure does prove that my life navigational skills are messed up.

I have no issues reading differing viewpoints if someone is well researched, well spoken and has an intelligent argument. Many times I learn something and even change my way of thinking.

Your post was none of those, as it was filled with nothing but unmitigated idiocy.

When you speak blatant lies about something I do know something about- you seriously undermine your credibility in the things I don’t know anything about.

And for that reason I will be unsubscribing.

Keith I must make a comment to your post. I am offended how you have taken what was written by one person and included people who were never involved with the writing.

(Your genes are from the seed of a disgraceful man. You have the same basic setup and have gone down the same general path.)

You for one don’t even know her father. How do you know if he could even be considered for the war? He had to register for it.

Then to offend her children? and her gene pool? What is that all about?

To end your comment with a biblical reference really put me over the edge. Then I say to myself, a christian man would never describe hate like you did and end it with a reference from the Bible. Rather, a Christian man would pray for the ignorance they may have seen or felt from the post.

I have seen many things with the Veterans working in the mental health sector. Men waking up still in combat. Men who come back and become drug addicts or alcoholics because of the mental anguish they endure from the war and not just the Vietnam war. Men addicted to pain medication because the VA hospital will not do surgery for one reason or another then end up dying from an overdose of medication. That happen to a very close friend of mine. My Ex-husband who know has cancer and during surgery woke up because they didn’t give him enough anesthesia to put him under. The VA decides when and where or of if they will give him chemo or radiation to kill off the cancer.

I also have a friend who’s father was exposed to agent orange and has small tumors on her face and through out her body from it. She is the only child. She can not have children because of it. And yet, the government fought these men who were exposed knowing exactly the truth of the matter. These men fought the government for how many years to be compensated?

Or lets talk about the waiting list to even be seen at the VA for any aliment at all. Did you not see the special reports of the VA hospitals and the conditions of them? If you lose an arm or a leg well forget it your not even going to see a prosthetic one from the government unless you have pull somewhere in the higher ranks…as they say you are sh*t out of luck.

I thank the people for serving for my freedom. I also thank their families. Without a family (Wife, Mother) and support from a family to return back to that man or women really has nothing. So as I see it they should also be part of Veterans Day!or National Day of Service. Just because they were not on the battle field doesn’t mean they don’t deserve recognition for a job well done keeping everything together while their husband/wife is at war.

As for the war we are in now, it wasn’t for our freedom or because of weapons of mass destruction…please. It was all about OIL! What ever happen with finding the leader or master of 9/11? The UN said that wouldn’t back us up for a reason and now yes it has caused America big! it sickens me.

Peace and Love
Julie

Suggesting a service day is one thing, very plainly stereotyping our troops and their intentions is another (or any large group of people for that matter). As a way to get some press for your site, this post might turn out to be quite smart. I’m sure some news outlet will reference it if they haven’t already. But as to the real content, there is no other thing to say except that it is insulting, grossly broad and assumptive, and quite stupid.

I am a very proud army wife, and yes it is difficult sometimes to be away from your family and friends, but it is a decision I made personally. I can tell from your post you have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to military life.
Every causality of war is extremely sad and something I wish would not happen, but in all honesty, freedom isn't free. Every person makes their own decisions and your parents made theirs; that is not a casualty of war that was their decision. War does ripple through society; it can however have a positive effect. For example, at the start of WWII the United States was in the Great Depression and WWII helped pull the U.S. out of it. The reason the U.S. was pulled into WWII was Pearl Harbor. I have personally seen the pictures, videos, and actual memorial at Pearl Harbor, and I can tell you it is an experience that everyone should take. And if you honestly think Hitler wouldn't have come to the U.S. and tried to overtake us you are sadly mistaken.
As for the children in military I have lived in different places and these kids do not act any differently than a child living in a large community and the crime rate on posts is extremely low. There are no gangs vandalizing every building, no wild and crazy underage parties' cops are busting, and there are places for children to go and be with people their own age. And as for the divorce rate um – .look at Americas divorce rate in general. It is all terrible and sad but you can not point out just military couples, it's a problem within our society.
For your second point that veterans did not give their lives for their country, that statement alone shows how much you looked into this point you're trying to make. Vietnam is not the only war where the draft has been implemented and yes it was a horrible thing and the draft being put into action was not what people wanted. But in my personal opinion you shouldn't enjoy the freedoms that we have today if you are not willing to fight for them. Veteran's day shows that we appreciate those people who didn't run from the draft. It is about appreciating the sacrifice of all the lives that were lost from the very beginning of this country.
You haven't met too many people in the military if you're going to say that Veterans of recent wars do not go in order to serve our country. My husband is in the army, he went to college before joining the army. Before he joined he had a good job and when he joined he took a pay cut, and no, he is not an officer. He joined because he wanted to serve his country; he wanted to protect the rights that Americans take for granted every day. There are countries where you are forced to serve for a certain amount of years in their military, ours is all volunteer. Isn't the American dream the reason this country was started to begin with? The freedom to worship how we want? The freedom of press? The right to bear arms? To choose who we are and not have someone dictate to us what to do, how to dress, how to worship, where we can live.
We can have a national service day but not in the place of Veterans Day. Let those who have sacrificed for our country be honored! If they don't want to be honored it's ok, that's their choice. But the fact your are wanting to take that away from people who have fought to give you the freedom to write this piece is pretty pathetic. This article is all my own opinions, not something that was forced onto me, not something I am "brainwashed" to believe. I am proud of this wonderful country we live in and grateful the Lord blessed me with a choice like everyone else in this country, be thankful or go to another country where they do not have these rights, then come back and let us all know how you would rather live.

Gross arrogance…and pathetic ignorance. Penelope,
you are living in the small state of your own mind, and
those are the little girls who never make friends. Nothing is relevant to them unless it effects them. And, even if your account of your birth is true, I am sure your life was effected by other, equally ineffective choices made by your parents.

Just one story, but it’s my family’s, and it’s true:

My mother and her parents were among the civilians interned by the Japanese in Manila. The Japanese government offered to repatriate them, and the U.S. government left them there. You know who set them free?

Soldiers.

Been reading this blog for awhile now and am officially unsubscribing. Penelope, you didn’t do a bit of research on this subject. Just spewed a bunch of thoughts about people serving our country based on your own preconceived notions and ideas and the two veterans you happen to know. You could have written thought out, researched post on this very subject (debating the merits of veterans day), but instead you chose to demonstrate your extreme ignorance about those who serve in the military. I also find it interesting that you haven’t responded to one comment. You are clearly not interested in having a ‘conversation’ on your blog.

I’m bummed they missed Walt. He should have stayed home making planes for the real soliders.

Well, it took a whole five days before the trolls came out. Considering the controversy this posting has caused, I think that’s actually pretty impressive. They’re usually Johnny-On-The-Spot.

To the aforementioned trolls, I think Penelope was way off-base with this posting too, and I said as much. I’m an Army brat, and I have done just fine. No one will ever be prouder of my father’s 36 years of service than I am. Oh, and I should probably mention that I’m a liberal. So take your partisan crap somewhere else. This is not a liberal/conservative issue.

My father, who thankfully is still living at age 92, was a WWII bomber pilot and prisoner of war. Few know that the loss ratio for the 8th Air Force, of which he was a part, was over 40%. I’m thankful that he survived a crash and was imprisoned because more missions would probably have meant his death. And did he know it! If you weren’t on a mission, you watched the skies and counted the B-17s that returned, calculating the losses of your comrades. He endured over a year of imprisonment in a German camp at a point in the war when the Germans themselves didn’t even have enough to eat. He also endured a 60-mile forced march during four days in Jan/Feb of 1945 during the coldest winter on record for over 50 years (-14 degrees Fahrenheit). He signed up after Pearl Harbor. He didn’t have to enlist. His job would have qualified as his “out.” In his memoirs, that he recently published, he shares his thoughts – compiled from his diaries and letters. His was not a sacrifice resulting from selfish motives, and yes, his family sacrificed, too. But they wouldn’t have had it any other way. There were men in his POW camp who had spent time at Buchenwald. They saw the horrors first-hand and it was their risk in sharing the information with those who smuggled out the messages that finally convinced the western world of the atrocities being perpetrated by the Third Reich against the Jews. To me, Veterans Day is an opportunity to affirm man’s better inclinations. To affirm the risks taken and the sacrifices made to secure a better world. While not all wars are just, St. Thomas Aquinas said it best: “Those who wage war justly aim at peace… we go to war that we may have peace.”

If there is an idea worse than Veterans Day, the National Day of Service is certainly a candidate.

Replace celebrating war with service to the state? Jesus. Honoring politicians that “gave up high paying jobs” so that they make a living taking other people’s money? Disgusting.

This is THE MOST ridiculous post I have EVER read. You obviously have no idea the sacrifices soldiers make. People like you make me sick. Veterans like my grandfathers, father and husband deserve all the respect in the world including a holiday just for them. You disgust me.

Penelope:
I have often admired your column as one rife with quick wit, decent guest spots, and fair career advice for novice job-hunters to seasoned professionals. I myself have a background in risk management with experience in executive recruitment as well as graduate level education in more than one arena. Therefore, I can appreciate your expertise in career counseling and your interest in providing a forum where individuals without said experience can utilize your knowledge as a resource.
With that being said, I must say that I was saddened by your posting regarding Veterans' Day and your assertion that such an important holiday should be canceled. While you are certainly entitled to your opinion, and you should remember that for the last two hundred plus years our armed services has fought to ensure your continued freedom to express such beliefs both on American soil and abroad, I find it amazing that someone with your obvious intelligence could make such ignorant comments.
First, you start by documenting that war ruins lives other than those who serve as members of the military. This is certainly true; however, it does not make the sacrifice of our veterans any less significant just because war can affect us all. You note that your own parents decided to have children in order to avoid the draft. You must be aware that our government as well as countless thousands of men and women view the draft (for men under the Selective Service Act of 1948)to be a constitutional obligation of the citizens of this country to aid in defending their homeland and the ideals upon which our country was created in times of war. While it is not and has not always been popular in every circle, it is largely accepted as being the norm for male citizens upon reaching the age of 18 to sign up. Additionally, failure to do so is a prosecutable offense under the law. Just because your parents did not like the draft and presumably did not want to go to war does not make the draft inherently wrong or their choice to have children at a particular time in their lives proof that their decision can and should be blamed on either the country or members of the military. In fact, personal family planning is and should be the mutual decision of two responsible consenting adults who want to have children. If your parents regret the timing of their personal choice, then that is their fault- not Uncle Sam's.
As far as the difficulties that go with being a military family member, you are not entirely wrong. Being the wife or child of a service member is challenging and can be painful. Some marriages do end in divorce but approximately 50 percent of all marriages end in divorce at this point. (Recent scholarship indicates that the current divorce rate for military members is 3.6%) So I think it is safe to say that all Americans need to think long and hard about making lifetime commitments that they do not intend to keep. Marriage is hard sometimes and the people whose marriages are successful are the people that work at it during the hard times. Marriage vows do not say anything about being together in the good times or easy times only. The promises two people make to one another indicate that they intend to stay devoted during the hard times too. This is true of military members and non-military members equally.
To be clear, I am a military wife and have been for years. My husband has been in the military for over a decade working ridiculously long hours on modest pay fighting to protect and defend our country and keep our homeland safe. He is a decorated and selfless individual who does not do it for the money- obviously- and really believes that he, like so many of his comrades, is making a difference. I know this the truth because his hard work, initiatives and service have touched the lives of civilians, government workers, military members and others. He responds to demands- day or night- and does so without complaint because that is his job and he is proud to defend and serve the men and women of this country. Even the men and women that are not proud of him.
Since I have actually spent years living through being a military wife, please do not try to tell me and others who may not have my experience what it is like to be me. Do not assume that you know what I am thinking or feeling and please do not degrade my husband's diligence, courage and devotion to duty by suggesting that my sacrifice as a military wife is not worth it to me. You may not understand this but I believe that my sacrifices are a form of service to my country. Plus, when I am at Veterans' Day events, I feel that our country is honoring my forfeitures as well.
As for your suggestion that WWII veterans did not give their lives for their country, I must ask: have you ever been to a national cemetery wherein our fallen have been laid to rest? Trust me plenty of men signed up for the service to fight for their country and plenty of them came home in body bags. You seem to think that just because Hitler was a despicable man with a horrible agenda (and I 100 percent agree with you about this), that you can make less of our entry into World War II. American history tells us that post World War I, many individuals were opposed to entering international conflicts and as such we became isolationist for a time. Military history tells us that this did not work out so well for our country. Please do some research on Pearl Harbor if you have questions about this fact. When we ignore atrocities in other areas of the world with the excuse that they are not taking place in our backyard, we only assure ourselves that they could very well end up in our backyard – €“ sooner rather than later.
Men and women both gave their lives during World War II to make this country safe. Women were deployed as WACs and nurses in other branches and while the majority of them may have survived- they provided a service to our country in affording medical aid to our troops and other Allied Forces during this debacle. You are correct that many women stepped in at home and served their country by going to work in factories and other jobs. What choice did they have? Speaking as someone whose grandfather was decorated for his distinguished service in World War II, your comments are insulting to my family personally and the many men and women that gave their lives so that this nation could not only protect itself but liberate millions of innocent Jewish people from concentration camps in Europe.
While men and women work together both at home and abroad, this does not mean that the individuals who actually die for their country do not deserve to receive special recognition.
Actually from a history and political science viewpoint, I completely agree that the decision to enter Vietnam was a critical error fueled by political aspirations and bad intelligence. However, the government made that decision and troops deployed to fight in a war that they did not agree with because they felt it is their duty to go where their Commander and Chief sent them. While I am horribly saddened that many men died in this war, as I am when soldiers and sailors die in any war or altercation, I cannot justify the ideal that their sacrifice means nothing just because some of them were against going in the first place. That is nonsensical. If we are to only honor veterans who wanted to be there during times of war, then we are saying that plenty of men and women died for the same cause and should receive no honor because they were not behind the cause in the first place. The only people that you punish in such a scenario are the brave dead who did expire for this country. Do you really mean to dishonor the very people that you appear to want to utilize as your excuse for canceling Veterans' day?
As for your contention that men and women do not enter the Armed Forces to serve their country but instead do it only for free college, I must say that is a very interesting presumption. First of all, many young high school men and women that go into the military directly after graduation are not really old enough to know whether they have a great civilian career ahead of them or not. While it is true that some probably have not completely determined what path they want to be on in life and are utilizing the military as potential career field, this cannot necessarily be held against them. They are young, inexperienced and are just becoming adults. Also, let me just say that these individuals grow up much more quickly with the help of boot camp, deployments, and a very unforgiving boss, then most college students do. I know because I went directly to a reputable four year university directly out of high school where I made excellent grades and had the opportunity to be surrounded by other young men and women that you would suggest were smarter or more worthy or more driven than many of our young military members. Their sacrifice and dedication to the job once they are enlisted is no less admirable just because the initial reason they chose to enter the military may not be with the intent to die. I have news for you Penelope, most seasoned career military members that are fabulous at their jobs and have won countless awards for service, do not want to die. They just accept that they may have to in order to appropriately serve their country. Second, many other individuals make the decision to attend military academies that have academic criteria that are as strict as most highly ranked Ivy League schools. The folks entering these colleges are no dummies and while they are getting school for free, they have an obligatory pay back and I cannot even recount to you the number of service men and women that stay in long after such payback is fulfilled. Saying that these individuals did not choose to serve just because they got scholarships to service academies is like saying a medical doctor who received funding during medical school is not really in it to save lives but solely to make money or because school was less costly for him or her than his or her peers. Third, the GI Bill requires you to serve for years prior to becoming eligible, to pay to set your account up, and must be utilized in accordance with specific terms set forth by the plan. Contractually speaking, this is not immediate or as easy as 1,2,3. Also, why would we not support our troops receiving educational benefits in return for their service? Most large companies and national corporations offer college tuition assistance plans now and are taken advantage of by large numbers of employees. Free or cheap school is a popular fringe benefit in civilian circles as well as military ones.
Your specific point that military men and women do not earn enough money for the service they provide despite getting schooling does not fall on deaf ears. However, this very inference makes my point for me. Military members make small salaries, and while they do receive some fringe benefits, these in no way make up for a competitive benefits package and salary doing the same job in the civilian world. As explained above, most military men and women that I have met are intelligent individuals with impressive skill sets that could perform equally well in the job marketplace. Therefore, if they choose to enter and remain in the service, there is a nonmonetary/tangible benefit reason. They are there to serve.
I think that President O'Bama's idea for a National Day of Service is a great one. There are many ways in which a man or woman can serve their community or country- be it volunteer work, teaching in our public or private schools, being involved in our community, protecting our streets in a law enforcement position, working in the non-profit sector to make a difference in a way that is important to them etc. Still this day could be in addition to Veteran's Day. There is no reason to cancel a day honoring men and women that already make a substantial sacrifice to keep our country safe just because others could stand to be recognized for their good deeds as well. To be clear, I like the idea of honoring all forms of service but do not think that we can equate someone jumping on a grenade and dying to save the rest of their platoon with making a charitable monetary donation to a good cause or serving on their employer's volunteer work committee. Why is it you think that individuals working at a non-profit, which while admirable is not always non-partisan or without a particular agenda, are more worthy of recognition than individuals making the same or less money that are willing to take a bullet so you can sleep at night? I am confused.
In short, you had your say about why you feel Veterans' Day should be abolished and this being the good ole' U.S.A., I wanted to have mine. I feel like I deserve it. After all, my husband goes to work every day and serves his country to ensure that I can speak my mind too.
All my best,
Eve

STFU, you pathetic schlepper. Read this quote instead and take it to heart:

“War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.”

John Stuart Mill

How ridiculous! I know most of my points have already been made, but I still feel the need to comment. You obviously have not met many military brats or current service members. The military brats I have known were so easily adaptable. They made friends easily. Many joined the military later, because they liked the lifestyle. My husband was in the military for over 10 years, because he wanted to serve his country, not because he didn’t have other options. Most of the officers I knew were the same way.

Yes, other people make sacrifices in war time, but the veterans are the only ones who actually went to war.

Penelope-
I’m not sure how I stumbled into your blog, but I did. Your essays and your very language, in content and direction, have been- the closest word I can find for this emotion is “reassuring”. That if you ‘do what you are’, working for it with all baggage we all have, doesn’t have to be an exercise in dream-stuff or futility. That only there is practical advice on how to do things with an equally scattered brain

Anyway, on this, on topic, it feels like many haven’t understood the point was. How completely complex and multidimensional war is and how artificial it is. The held beliefs of democracy as the reason to go into battle fall true, when researched by sociologists, psychologists, and even anthropologists, fall flat. It becomes issues of family, career, climbing the social ladder, and many other variables.
There is also the question, when the ideal of democracy for war is held as the truth, of that implication. How fighting war fractures all levels of our standing society, from state to city to community to neighborhood to families to one’s own psychology, its worth falls in to a very questionable light. And this is from the side of the “winners”; the opposition fares much worse, as ‘kind’ as we can be.
It is also our third federal (bank) holiday commemorating war and soldiers’ sacrifice, not including societal overtones and norms. We have a single day in January that has no religious or fabled origins for actual non-violence, civilian kindness and rising up, and peace- Dr. King’s memorial birthday, as the story of Thanksgiving mirrors poorly against its actual history.

Anyway, thank you for all fantastic resources!

Sorry for being so ambiguous. I’m Australian, and I just saw Penelope’s blog entry…