Veteran’s Day should be cancelled
Both WWII veterans I've known personally have largely ignored Veteran's Day. But I never thought about it, really. I thought it was a holiday for them, not me. Lately, though, I think I do have an opinion. I think there is plenty wrong with Veteran's Day.
1. What about all the other casualties of war?
For example, my mom and dad had me immediately after college graduation as a way to avoid the draft. I ask my mom and dad now how they could have been so incompetent as parents, yet so interesting in the world (really, everyone loves being around my mom, except her kids. It's uncanny.) They each say that they had kids too young. They were totally unprepared.
So I see the war ruining many lives at home, but we only talk about people who fought at the front. It doesn't make any sense to me. War ripples throughout society.
And what about all the women who keep things going while men go off to fight? What about the army wives who move their families around endlessly as the government moves their husbands? What about the kids who lived in 20 cities and never learned how to make a friend? What about the high divorce rate for people in the armed forces? Why are we only thanking veterans for giving their time? What about all the people who gave up safe, secure lives because one family member was in the armed forces?
2. Veterans of WWII did not “give their lives for their country.”
What else were we going to do in WWII? Stay out of war? Let Hitler kill two million more people? Let all of Russia starve to death? There comes a point when we are moral beings and we have to get involved because we could not live with ourselves if we didn't. During WWII, women took over industry, and men went overseas to fight. Didn't the women give up a lot in their lives as well? Why do we not celebrate the sacrifice on the domestic front, too? Why do we not celebrate the people who waited in line for food in order to ensure food for the troops overseas? Veterans alone do not fight a war: they do it as a team, with non-veterans.
3. Veterans of Vietnam hated Vietnam.
How can we celebrate people being veterans of Vietnam when they were forced to go there with a draft? It seems disingenuous to me to force people to fight in a war they think is totally stupid, and then tell them we celebrate their sacrifice. People want to be celebrated for what they choose to do, for what they are proud of, for what they feel like they did well. Vietnam veterans think Vietnam sucked. We can honor them by not fighting stupid wars anymore.
Of course, we are not doing that.
4. Veterans of recent wars do not go in order to serve our country.
Okay. Please. I'm telling you the truth here: Anyone who has a great career ahead of them, and makes enough money to support their family, and is genuinely admired for how well they have navigated their life so far, is unlikely to enlist in the armed forces.
It's telling that the military has to lure recruits with free college to get them to risk their lives. The people who will risk their lives do not perceive that they have a way to pay for college.
How about in honor of Veteran's Day, we give citizens a way to earn a good living besides leaving their kids for nine months at a time and risking their lives at war?
So Veteran's Day is predicated on the idea that people choose to give their lives for this country. And it's false. People give their lives for values they believe in. And in recent history, that does not include the wars we fight. People are selling their lives for a chance to reach their American Dream.
5. We should replace Veteran’s Day with National Service Day
We need to think through again what Veteran's Day means. And then cancel it. President Obama had a great idea calling for a National Day of Service – where we all get out and do service as a way to celebrate service. While he did not intend for it to be a yearly event, I think this is a fine replacement for Veteran's Day. It is a way to celebrate service, and encourage service, without the hypocrisy of war.
There have always been infinite ways to serve the ideas of the United States without going to war: men who give up high-paying jobs to run for office, women who campaigned for the right to vote, parents who sacrifice health insurance in order to work at a non-profit that can't afford insurance. These people give resources and take risks in order to make the world a better place. We should use National Service Day to thank these people for their service. Because what we're doing now—celebrating military service over everything else—is teaching people that one is more valuable than the other.
Though, I do not agree with some of your points, I can identify with some aspects of number 4. While there are people who join for familial pride and continuing legacy, not all do!
People that I know talked about being able to have college paid for and the possibility of job opportunities, and a paycheck–some never finished or the full expected gain were not acquired. In all honesty, people do not go to war solely to fight for their country. There is so much more of a dynamic than this. Though sad, people have a different mindset nowadays. I question whether the major motivation is for the benefits of joining. Some of the commercials are enticing.
No one wants to subject themselves to the possibility of PTSD unless they believe there is some form of reward– whether it be monetary, travel, or even the internal need of respect. I am sure that in the recent war, all who fought, did not believe in it, but one can’t just drop out and join a later war. One has to stick to it and “obey.” Sometimes part of that dynamic is to convince oneself that this is for “the good of my country”.
I was just talking to colleague who was telling me about a friend of his who was in the military whose friend stepped on a mine and died. The shrapnel barely injured the other guy, but was compensated and did not work for the rest of his life, although, he can work just as well as you and I. Other people can’t get the help that they need. So there are people who get around the system and draw a negative light on the issue. Majority of the people join during non-war times, in hopes that there is no war. Socioeconomic class plays a factor. Lower SES classes have a higher percentage of registrants primarily drawn by the possibility of incentives.
But despite the dynamism, the notion that Veterans’Day should be canceled is erroneous and not well thought-out. These individuals still fought for the country, even though some wanted to give up and turn back. They should still be honored. I believe giving up your life is the biggest sacrifice that anyone can make. For families, yes it is hard not knowing if your loved one is going to come back, but there is such a higher toll on families who do not get to see their loved one again.
Next year we can expect from this blog
1. Memorial Day should be cancelled – everybody dies anyway.
2. President’s day should be cancelled – what’s the big deal about Washington?
3. MLK’s day should be cancelled – he didn’t work alone, did he?
4. Mother’s day should be cancelled – really, what is the real intention for most women to have children?
5. Admin Assistant day should be cancelled – their job is the same as everybody’s job.
If you wanted to write about the horrors of war, you missed the mark. Now if you wanted traffic, you got it.
Suzie, that’s exactly it! If Penelope wrote about the horrors of war, no one would come. The fact that she chose something sooooo polarizing, opened up the conversation about why do we celebrate war. No doubt she will eventually write all the posts you mention above which is why so many of us keep coming back :)
I also wanted to ask, do you light off fire works on the 4th of July, picnic with your family? Use good old red, white, and blue for your color themes?..Well isn’t that day a product of a war that was fought? Maybe next year you should just stay inside for every holiday that “honors a war.” Or is it that you just picked this holiday because its convient to you, you don’t celebrate it so why should anyone else. You obviously have never sacrificed anything for the greater good of this country, you are clearly a sad individual.
Lala-4th of July celebrates the signing of the Declaration of Independence. The formal Revolutionary War was fought AFTER that. The 4th of July is certainly NOT a celebration or product of war. Red, white, and blue comes from the British Union Jack which is a combination of the flags of St. George and St. Andrew. These things are not the products of war.
Although, of course, there had been fighting for more than a year before the Declaration was signed, so I guess it depends on whether or not you think that counts.
Personally, I think our definition of “war,” requiring a formal declaration, needs revisiting. It’s archaic, and only slightly more developed than sending two champions out to fight one another while everyone else stands around and bangs on their shields.
But that’s a separate issue from Veterans’ Day.
Why do so many say, that without Veterans, Penelope wouldn’t have the freedom to post what she has said?
Wasn’t our nation also founded on people who said something that others weren’t saying?
American was created out of ideas. Yes, violence helped carry those ideas forward, but that doesn’t mean that violence needs to be celebrated. There are other ways to achieve the same, without killing, and we’re smart enough to know that.
As much as I might respect the individual men and women who choose to work in the military (as my father and grandfather did), I do not respect murder as a tool for enforcement, and I cannot in good conscience celebrate that.
What’s striking to me is that many of us who stand opposed around the issue of war, stand in opposite positions around the issue of abortion. I know that this is true of myself, a liberal, and my beloved fundamentalist sisters. I’m against war and pro-choice. They support war and are anti-abortion.
It’s a dichotomy in our Nation’s psyche that I’ve been challenged to understand–from either perspective.
That said, I wouldn’t expect others to honor the women who chose abortion, even if in doing so they were protecting their families emotionally and economically.
I’m eager to hear others’ insights around this duality.
The more obvious stereotypical divergence is with the death penalty.
I can get behind the idea of a National Service Day. But the 4 reasons you gave for eliminating Veterans Day were so short sighted and off the mark I just can’t agree with them.
Viet Nam Vets hated that war? Yeah? What vet of ANY war didn’t hate that war?
Want to do a National Service Day? Great idea. Want to honor the vets who have served? Give THEM a paid day off work and put kids back in school, and get the government offices (and schools & banks) opened again.
I live a few miles from Camp Pendleton and my kids (who are out of h.s. and a senior in h.s. right now) all had friends and acquaintances who entered the military after h.s. and it was 100% because they either wanted money for college or had no idea what else to do with their lives. Period. Not one of them mentionen patriotism.
Either that Jennifer, or they have a strong need “to belong” to something bigger than themselves; something that meets the need of a young man or woman to demonstrate their strength and their convictions in ways that have “edge.” Too bad this is best option for that need, and it’s fully funded. http://emptynestdiary.wordpress.com/2009/11/11/veterans-day-teaching-boys-about-war/
When I was a newspaper reporter several years ago, I wanted to do a long-term story following around a 21 year-old Marine who had just returned from Iraq. I got to meet with him a few times and he showed me his photo album of him in fatigues, holding big guns, and he told me what he said every other reporter wanted to know: what it feels like to kill someone. Then it got harder to get in touch with him, and he never returned my calls, until I realized that most of our contact thus far had been arranged by his dad and that this soldier really did not want to speak to me, so I let it go and I found another story. Before that happened, though, I went to a veterans’ event at his church and when it was this young man’s turn to speak, he started telling a story about a particular day in combat when a lot of his fellow men were killed, but he could not finish the story, because he started sobbing so hard, and the tough front he had put up for me until that point was suddenly torn down by what was so clearly a raw, open wound. It was gut-wrenching to see. It was also the moment that I realized that I would never understand what he had been through and that I should keep a respectful distance, unless he approached me to share his story.
I was reminded of that today when I read your post, Penelope. I was also reminded of a line in the movie “Snow Cake,” when Alan Rickman’s character starts to tell Sigourney Weaver’s character that he knows how she feels and she snaps back that he does not know how she feels, because he is not her. Come to find out later in the movie, he could have very well thought that he knew how she felt, because he did have a set of circumstances in common with her, but her point was still the most valid one, because other than the fact that she had autism and he didn’t, it was really that simple: he was not her.
Trite as the point may be, no one is a mind-reader. Maybe the veterans you’ve talked to act like they don’t get that much out of it but no one, except for those very veterans, knows what the day truly means to them. Whether or not they want to do anything with the occasion is up to them, because they earned it; it should always be there for them, if they want it.
Margaret, I appreciated you story, and what it brought to mind for me is not that a soldier’s work isn’t demanding in EVERY possible way that I could NEVER EVER imagine, but that no human being should have to face what this soldier faced. That’s the part that I can’t honor. How do I honor something that kills others and then eats the soldiers alive inside? Here’s how I talk to my boys about this very thing: http://emptynestdiary.wordpress.com/2009/11/11/veterans-day-teaching-boys-about-war/
You sound like a kid on the elementary school playground; “if everyone doesn’t get a piece of the cookie, then it isn’t fair that anybody get a piece”. So just because some third-order impact on you isn’t celebrated, nobody should celebrate. Wow, this is really sad.
Unless you have served our country or are from a military family you cannot speak for any of us. Celebrating veterans day is not about celebrating war its about honoring those that fought for our freedoms, no matter what reason they joined. Not everyone was drafted in Vietnam and today not everyone joins for education. There are plenty of men and women who join the Army to serve our country, to protect our rights,like the right for you to post this ridiculous blog post. Really what does it matter that we celebrate Veterans Day, no body says that you have to. It’s easy for you to write this blog post, sitting safely in your home or office but I know plenty of men and women who are serving and have served who have put their lives in danger for a greater belief and they appreciate a day to be honored for their great sacrifice.
Kelly –
Veteran’s day does NOT celebrate war.
I do agree with you that the blog is very entertaining. She ties together half-truths and fabricated facts, yet people shallow it up, both defenders and attackers.
I can’t wait to see the reaction of all her mompreneurs followers when she uses the same argument for Mother’s Day. And no, saying “Mother’s day should be everyday” doesn’t count. She has to question the intention of women wanting to have children; how many Stay-at-Home moms are just lazy and don’t have what it takes to work in corporate; and how many mothers are regretful of having children. Oh, yeah, and it takes a village to raise a child, so what’s the big deal about mothers, anyway?
That post will be awesome.
If you think no work is more important than any other, I sure hope a flight attendant does not show up when you need a firefighter. Seriously, if you want to ban holidays honoring occupations, why not start small, like Administrative Assistant day? I might be back in April to see if you do.
I completely disagree with you and am completely disgusted with your opinion. My Father is a Vietnam War Vet who NEVER received any recognition from our country. IN FACT, He was badgered and dishonored by the citizens that he risked his life for.
My nephew Lucas (9 yrs old) invited my Dad to a special celebration at his school yesterday. My mother said that my Dad was so proud! The whole school put on a big event for Veterans in which they sang patriotic songs, …read poems etc. The police department and the fire department were there and there was a special area in the middle of the auditorium in which students who had invited family vets were honored. I think we should do this more often. I think that this was one of the ONLY times that my Dad was “officially” thanked for his service. I try to make it an effort to thank every service person I see. I just saw a banner on a bus yesterday that read “Suicide Prevention Hotline- VETS press 1.” I think it’s very clear that they feel alienated from the rest of society and we need to do all we can to thank them for their ultimate sacrafice.
As the wife of an officer in the Air Force I appreciate the last paragraph of #1. I do love and respect my husband for his service but I do agree that the sacrifices of spouses and children are overlooked. I have been standing next to my husband on numerous occasions when someone has thanked him for his service but did not even acknowledge my existence. In regard to #4, I can think of many extremely intelligent, hard working people who chose to join the Air Force in order to serve their country. My husband and many of his friends paid for college themselves then took a pay cut when they entered the Air Force. You see, they are all engineers who would have made roughly $15,000 more per year in industry. They are honorable people who are choosing to uproot their families every 4 years and volunteer for deployments because they think it is important to defend our nation even if it makes their lives more difficult. I think a better solution than cancelling Veteran’s Day is to take note of the many people and the many ways Americans sacrifice for our country.
I never had a chance to say this (or the timing was not right), but I have to say (and I think I speak for most people who have served) that the military spouses have sacrificed a lot for their country. It is a silent burden, but I can’t think of many woman who would bear it and I commend you. Hopefully the military recognizes it as well. Without the support of spouses, the morale of our troops and sailors would collapse.
On your first point, everything that I’ve read about Veterans Day says that it’s about recognizing the sacrifice of military families as much as the military personnel themselves. They make it possible.
On your second and third points, I think it’s a matter of perspective and what you think Veterans Day is for. In Australia and the UK we call it Remembrance Day. It’s not a day for celebration and glorifying war. It’s a day of somber reflection on the horrors of war. “Lest we forget” is not just about remembering sacrifice, it’s also about remembering what caused it all in the first place. The idea is that those who do not remember history are doomed to repeat it. (Though we seem pretty determined to repeat it anyway).
I don’t agree with #4. My husband is 28, in Dental School, thinking about applying for a Residency, and he just joined the Navy.
I realize you were trying to be provocative with this post, but it’s downright insulting to veterans to say that they were only in the military because they were losers with no better career option. Here’s my full response to your suggestion: http://workingmoms.about.com/b/2010/11/11/should-veterans-day-be-cancelled.htm
WOW PENELOPE………I have to say, as a vet, I agree with some of your post. However, a wife, child, pet, politician, nurse, etc etc will never see their brothers explode from an RPG, directly in front of them, and have their blood splattered all over their faces – only to have to pick up the pieces. I take every veterans day off as a day to remember watching said action to remember my friends who I have lost. I joined the Marines with esprit de corps, the first in my family to do so. I could have stayed home, but I really felt it was my patriotic duty (on top of a life long dream, growning up playing army with my friends). I dont regret it, I would do it again in a heartbeat. You do realize that thousands of college educated “kids” enter the military…..who do you think is in charge?? I would love to invite you to excuse yourself from your comfy farm and six figure paycheck to look at how others in the countries we try to help live, then try to move the thought that we are lucky to have running water and speak english in this country b/c of veterans, through your obviously ignorant mind and thick skull.
Maybe you were seeking a huge rebuttal from your post, being one that doesnt comment but religiously follows your post, I am sorry to have given you what you may have desired. I hope you read some of the posts and what others said sinks in, maybe we should have a day to honor ignorance that is cherished by those who have absolutely no clue what vets have gone through and try to back up their opinions with truly baseless bullshit put together by people that have never had to fear for the life of family member or friend. Good Job, I am sure you are minus a few readers, I know for certain you are minus one.
Im not one for internet arguing, but I can sum up a few posters opinions here by saying – Good luck with the rest of your life, I hope one of your cows gives you a high five in your face.
Trolling and jumping the shark combined. Pathetic, ignorant cry for attention.
Maybe we’ve had enough stoning for one holiday (and one post).
I definitely don’t like the post but if we have resorted to calling names then this entire thread has jumped the shark.
I have to admit that I have enjoyed reading all of this – lots of good good thoughts and very compelling stories from service people and families.
P – It would be interesting to find out that this was all an experiment and that the next blog is about how to handle “third rail” issues without vitriol.
Also, today, I would like to say Thank you all of the Veterans and Families of Vets.
http://parkerspitzer.blogs.cnn.com/2010/11/10/david-stockman-heretic-or-truth-teller/
I find your logic faulty.
My father-in-law enlisted in the Marines to serve in Vietnam. My grandfather fought in WWII not because it was the "moral" thing to do, but because his family was lucky enough to have emigrated already and not be in Hitler's path. My aunt, who is a successful physician, and her husband, a successful psychiatrist, completed med school and then gave back in the armed forces. And the troops who benefited from their care are certainly grateful.
You can do what you want, but today I'll honor my family members who have served. I'm sure they have thanked those who kept the home front running while they were gone.
What are you talking about? I can’t figure it out. Are you saying people who gave for our country shouldn’t be honored because they aren’t the only ones who gave for our country? And are you saying YOU are one of those people because you were only born for draft-avoidance purposes? Is your problem that Veteran’s Day doesn’t celebrate everyone who ever did the moral human thing? or that it doesn’t take into account that the people who served in the war didn’t LIKE the war? Are you saying the fact that there was a Home Front means we SHOULDN’T celebrate veterans? I’m not asking rhetorical questions; the problem is that I seriously don’t understand your logic. You aren’t making sense, dear.
“If you can read, thank a teacher. If you can read English, thank a soldier.” That’s what November 11 is about.
Ah. A “meaning not actually in the words” mystic.
I respectfully disagree with you point of view in this post. I would suggest you listen to the Pritzker Military Library’s Medal of Honor podcast series to get a sense of the sacrifice that is made: http://www.pritzkermilitarylibrary.org/medal-of-honor/
Regards,
Scot
My dad loved to start debates with us kids just to get the intellectual juices flowing. He used P’s technique of putting out a controversial topic just to get us talking. I am grateful for the conversations we had as a result. One memorable topic was his alleged opinion that someone who killed a police officer deserved the death penalty more than one who killed anyone else. I used P’s argument about no work being more important than any other to refute Dad’s statement. Of course, I was 15 at the time…..
Awww… sad.
I think this another example of how such a small portion of our society actually does military service. And how only those affected by the service understand.
Penelope, it is clear that you don’t know anyone in the military.
And if you give a shit about their relatives who are affected (which you implied, but I highly doubt) I would ask you what I asked all the “Support the troops, bring them home” B.S. protestors I talked to when I lived in Berkeley. Send them a care package. Then I might believe you.
I’m kind of bummed because I’ve kept reading your blog for so many years, and I read all the comments that say “now I’m never coming back to your blog” after a controversial post and thought it was ridiculous. Sadly, now I’m convinced that your goal is solely to generate traffic… even if its by half-assed anti-war rhetoric and a sidebar about masturbation.
I’ll be honest–I’ll miss it here–amidst all the smut were a few little flashes of brilliance and wisdom and I loved your journey towards something nebulous and unknown–never knowing if success or a train wreck lies around your next corner. But such uninformed grandstanding makes my stomach turn. Good luck to you… I hope you find what you are looking for
Being provocative is one thing. Blatant disrespect is another. I’ve replied to your post here: http://campfiresong.wordpress.com/2010/11/11/brazen-shame/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Auax5rpJPI
And by the way, if your blog subscription number is correct, you now have 39,999 subscribers. Done with your glee about having a miscarriage and wondering why the farmer’s family hates you, your Jerry Springer tactics, make believe marriage, and your lack of any really helpful career advice. Job hop, make ridiculous demands, do downward facing dogs in the corporate restroom (is that what put Yahoo Finance over the top with their decision to fire you as a career expert?) You will probably delete this post like you did the one on Yahoo finance where you blasted those you gave you low ratings for your idiotic posts, using the “f” word, which post did not remain long.
Perhaps people in China would appreciate your freedom, be glad their military is not running the show
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/12/world/asia/12psych.html?_r=1&hp
Wow ed….did not know that my post had to be within certain constraints. I was responding to P in general…she writes some cute farm stories, but do not take her seriously for career advice.
And Claire’s post relates to Veteran’s Day how?
My post did not go to the correct place. Michael, are you the post Nazi? New ideas scare you much? You will make a great follower.
Is China an evil empire now? I guess that makes me evil because I lived there for six years. Freely.
When logic fails, resort to emotion. Here, have a nice cup of tea.
Read the article
By the way, I am “impressed” that you lived in China for six years – did you ever consider your freedom was a result of the passport your were holding and your ability to leave the country.
Please don’t preach about freedom when you have it. Any dingdong can move to a country and act cosmopolitan – I have lived in several countries
I freely choose to be a ding dong, but I fail to see what that has to do with a rational discussion about cancelling Veteran’s Day.
I fail to see with your six year vacation in China has to do with anything related to this topic or your egotistic perception that people have any view about you being evil – the world is not concerned
I think you totally missed the mark on this one Penelope.
One is a veteran even if you don’t serve in a war. It’s for all who serve and have served in the armed forces. My husband is a Navy veteran and believe me he deserves celebration for his service. One’s freedom is taken away as you serve. Believe me, he was a slave. Me move from city to city? Big deal.
Excellent post, Penelope. People get caught up in this primitive in-group, out-group fighting all too easily. It’s easy to dehumanize the other group and make soldiers into heros. In reality, war is murder. If people stopped being willing to kill one another over political bullshit we wouldn’t have to rationalize the brutality with holidays. Why are we celebrating the deaths of other human beings? Ack. I also agree with your observation that people in good situations don’t join the military. I live in a poor area of Kentucky and there are military recruitment places everywhere. After the ASVAB test the armed forces practically stalk us. The soldiers I know are typically either not so smart, or in a bad home situation.
To sum it up, I think war is always wrong, and always murder, and this patriotism nonsense is just a way to justify the horrors, and holidays are just an extension of mindless patriotism.
There is no chance for a productive discussion, because there is everything but the kitchen sink in that post; sombody is going to cherry-pick what they agree/disagree and go from there.
Complexity does not mean depth, and this post shows it.
Fun to read, though.
Maybe Brazen Careerist would monetize this peak in traffic by attracting PR wannabes with a dream to promote Jersey Shore or Kim Kardashian. If for a society one job is as important as the other, I’d guess the job of Jersey’s Shore’s PR person (*) is as important as an oncologist.
(*) Disclaimer-Please note that Jersey Shore PR people are making an honest living and DO make a contribution to their organization and their family. But really, even they would disagree with this onejobisthesameastheother.
Sigh.
Wow – your vapid discussion of monetizing traffic and Jersey Shore shows how out of touch you are with what most people on this post are feeling. You must have attended the same private school in NYC as Penelope
‘Some of them had obeyed the instinct of lawlessness: some were hungry: others thirsted for glamour, the supposed colour of a military life: but, of them all, those only received satisfaction who had sought to degrade themselves, for to the peace-eye they were below humanity.’
Penelope – I’m not surprised that you’re surprised. As you stated, you think soldiering is a job. Your broad-brush statements stereotyping veterans as losers would be fine/amusing if referring to employees of a particular firm. They’re not okay when referring to a culture and they’re not okay when they perpetuate harmful prejudice against members of that culture.
Being a soldier isn’t a job. It’s a calling, a vocation in the spiritual sense. I served because I love the constitution. I swore an oath to uphold and defend it. Our oath of office is bit special because, in supreme irony and unlike politicians or reporters, we surrender a number of rights you take for granted when taking up this calling. I lose a number of free speech and political rights. And I lose free will. Americans elected George W. Bush. Twice. The majority of them supported Operation Iraqi Freedom. The constitution that I love gives POTUS and the congress (Did you vote for a congressman who authorized OIF? Probably so, assuming you bothered to vote.) the power to send me to a war that failed to satisfy the just war doctrine that my (then) faith required and that I was taught in my officers training. If it were a company, I would have quit. But it’s not a company. If I don’t show up to work, men with guns show up at my home and make me come to work. So I went to work. I invaded a country in violation of my faith because when I took the oath, I surrendered the responsibility and discretion to you, the citizen. I, and my peers, many of whom agreed with my assessment that OIF was both dumb and unethical, carried out the orders that the people you elected gave us. We invaded Iraq. We tried to minimize the damage, protect innocent people and get the job done that we were asked to do. And we did a better job of that than had ever been done before. But that means "only" a few hundred thousand dead foreigners.
Working at Wal Mart (or Merrill Lynch) is a job. You don’t do it for anyone else. You do it for money. You do it to accomplish freedom, security, prestige. Being a soldier is the opposite of that. You give up freedom, security (and as your post demonstrates) prestige. You do it because some things are more important than money. Some things are more important than comfort. Some things are worse than dying. Those are old-fashioned ideas. But the fact that an increasingly-small group of men and women from every generation has acted on those beliefs is the reason you and others are able to minimize it now.
We’re getting smaller and more disconnected, the warrior caste. And we’re sacrificing more. We give and give and give. We lose our husbands and wives, but we give some more. We lose limbs, but give more. We lose our faith, we lose our love of country, we lose our mental health, our freedom, our hearing, our marketability, our friends, our family, but we keep giving. Because you ask us to. Because the problem with representative democracy is that it’s representative. Because we have honor in a culture that has forgotten what that word means.
I don’t know if that’s something to celebrate. Maybe it’s a fool-me-twice scenario and we’re just rubes. Maybe that’s always been the case, but citizens were just polite enough to pretend otherwise. Maybe your honesty is refreshing. Because mostly, these days, we feel like people forgot about us. It feels like they told us to go kill a bunch of people and then forgot. Like they ordered a dead-brown-people pizza and when we delivered it they’re like, "who ordered this?" It feels kinda like that, only imagine that you made the pizza by hand, and you still have the smell of the trash truck full of bodies and the image of the little girl with the missing leg and the cold fire in her mother’s eyes as she looked at you. And when it comes to the day that everyone pretends to remember or have some kind of clue regarding the pointless, evil thing you did at their request, people think you’re just another pizza delivery guy, some loser who can’t get anything better because you know how Those People are. So, yeah. Your post feels like that. But on the other hand, this is kinda what it already seems like people are thinking and you being you, just put it out there on the table. So thanks for that, I guess.
@ David you should know better and take this post for what it was. This post was a way of causing controversy. Anybody with basic understanding of how a society works would recognize the importance of this celebration.
Would some people agree with some or all of this incoherent proposal? Sure. They can isolate the argument they like the most: your pacifists; your anarchists; your contrariants. Someone with a chip on his/her shoulder, some others who are just easily manipulated.
So really, chill out, hope you enjoyed Veteran’s day, and thanks so much for your service.
David,
A brilliant response to any of us who have no idea what it takes.
Above – my name and website are attached to something I didn’t post.
Being provocative is one thing. Blatant disrespect is another. I’ve replied to your post here: http://campfiresong.wordpress.com/2010/11/11/brazen-shame/
Disregard – I read the comments incorrectly. *goes for coffee*
As a Veteran and disabled, at that, I could UNLEASH A RAGE on you!! Why, I don’t? Because you are not worth the spit in my mouth!!! SERVICE yourself, before you SPEW YOUR IGNORANCE on others!!!
“A veteran is someone who, at one point in his/her life, wrote a blank check made payable to “The United States of America,” for an amount of “up to and including life.”
Signing the dotted line and entering service takes more courage, guts and pride than you could ever possible know, because you are a coward! Guarantee, you would not spew your ignorance face to face with dedicated service members/veterans. Having “veterans” who back your ignorance, does not show that you are right in any way, it just shows their ignorance!!
“PROUD USArmy Veteran!”
The first line of the “About This Blog” page states, “This blog is about career advice. And about me.”
A little career advice for you: stick to your specialties, i.e., career advice and you. Unless you’re seriously in it to win the prize for wanton douchbaggery.
Ugh. My parents were in the Air Force and yes, the whole family sacrifices as part of that. Veteran’s Day IS a celebration for the family, not just for Veterans. I don’t know why you feel it is not a holiday for America but rather a holiday for people who actually fought in war.
Also, you are incredibly out of touch with people my age who have joined the armed forces. Everyone I know (and coming from a military family, I know a lot of young armed forces families) had plenty of money to go to college. They joined up because they are so incredibly proud to be part of something big and life-changing and consider it an honor to serve their country. The work is extremely challenging to them and they gain a ton of leadership skills. It’s much more exciting for them than getting a job in corporate.
Lastly, living in lots of cities/countries makes you BETTER at making friends, not worse. Sure, I am resentful sometimes, but I can also roll with change much better than most people my age.
WOW — you couldn’t be any more self consumed if you tried. It is sad that you can’t have enough respect to observe and give gratitude to the men and women who have made your life possible.
Seriously, Penelope? I’m not sure you could have been more insulting. The holiday isn’t called “War Day” for a reason. It’s not about war since–and I feel this is an obvious and crucial point–not all of our veterans have served in combat. It’s also not about whether you agree with U.S. foreign policy or not. It’s about taking one day each year to thank the people who have chosen to sacrifice in the service of this country. To say that those who choose to serve in our military do so simply because they have no better prospects is both ignorant and grievously offensive.
I am wholly in favor of instituting an annual day of national service. Each of us certainly needs to learn to serve the common good regardless of how we choose to do so. I simply find it unnecessary to denigrate those who serve in a capacity you would not. Make your choice. Serve as you see fit. Honor all who do the same. Those are simple principles, and I think we would all do well to follow them.
If you won’t honor the people who agree to die in your defense, who are you going to get to do it?
Blame the politicians for the unjust wars. They killed for a bad cause and abused the honor of the troops who served us in the name of freedom. Give special honor to the troops who went for the bad cause, because their willingness to go when ordered is what defends us.
The blood of those wars is not on their hands, but on ours — the Democracy that voted the government that pursued an unjust war. Take to the streets in defiance — but thank the troops.
I hope for a world where no one has to die for freedom, but I don’t live in it. Every day people volunteer to die for me so I can vote, and walk the streets dressed any way I choose, so I can be fat and self-absorbed and moralistic in the safety of my suburban American home.
I thank them.
Incredible post Penelope. I’ve been an avid fan for 2 years, and I love your writing, but this is your best post by far. I’ve always had similar thoughts about Veteran’s Day, but could never concisely describe what annoyed me about the holiday so much. It’s not about the day itself, but really all the people that feel that veterans are better than others and more worthy of admiration.
Thank you.
Hey Chris,
I bet you don’t have the balls to put yourself in harm’s way. How dare you?
It was an interesting post. I agreed with some of her points and disagreed with others.
My grandfather served in the Korean War. It wasn’t voluntary – he was drafted. He never spoke much about his experiences. He was against the Iraq and Afghanistan wars because he knew what it was like and didn’t think we were there for the right reasons. He respected the people who went to the Middle East, but felt they were being sent over to promote someone else’s agenda. He died several years ago and there was a military honor guard at his funeral. They were young men who seemed honored to be there because he served his country and got to live a full life. My dad spoke to one of them and they said they were very busy going to funerals of Korean and World War II vets and soldiers who died in Afghanistan and Iraq.
She does have good point with number 4. The military, especially the Army, have relaxed their standards in terms of education and character in general because of low enlistment numbers. It used to be that you had to graduate high school with a diploma in order to enlist. Now you can enlist with a GED. It’s also more common for recruiters to go into high schools and talk to sophomores and juniors without getting parental permission. They use the free college as a bait to get these kids to enlist after they turn 18. Parents can sign forms prohibiting the military from having access to their kids, but some districts make it difficult for them to do so. Also, I know from personal and work experience that many of the people currently in Iraq and Afghanistan don’t have best character. Some have committed crimes over there that weren’t made public like the Abu Ghraid scandal, a much higher percentage than in Vietnam, Korea, and World War II. Their criminal history while serving in the military has cost them jobs in the US. I knew people in the reserves who I hoped never were sent overseas because it would make the Afghan and Iraqi people hate us more than they already do. Recruiters had to meet their target, even if it meant recruiting high school dropouts and people with questionable characters. I think that is one part of what Penelope meant with number 4.
There are other professions besides the military that allow you to serve your country and the people in your community. At the local level, teachers, police, and firefighters all serve their communities often at personal risk everyday. I know some may object to including teachers, but many teachers in urban schools see kids bringing weapons to school and being threatened daily, while not being able to react to these threats. Teach for America and the Peace Corps are a great way to help people in urban areas and abroad, while simultaneously projecting a positive image of the US abroad. It’s not just members of the military who serve their country – everyone does in some capacity.
I do not agree with what Penelope wrote but it made me think which it has obviously what it has done to a lot us. What does Veteran’s Day mean in 2010? Ask your children if they know what the day is about and I bet you will get some very disappointing responses. I asked my 8 year old daughter last night if she knew what yesterday was and she had NO Idea But She Knows that we honor the fallen on Memorial Day. I feel that we need to revisit the name Veteran’s Day and look at changing it to HONOR All Military Members Who ARE Serving Our Country and Who HAVE Served Our Country and get the schools to educate the children about what the amazing men and women do for us. I don’t give a damn if you are for or against the war this is not about that. This is about supporting and honoring our fellow American’s who have and who continue to put their lives at stake for us.
Terri,
You’re upset that your 8-yr old doesn’t know the meaning of Veteran’s Day? Then TEACH her, damn it!! Let me guess…you’re going to blame the school system, right? Sheesh.
Those who question depend on those who do not question.
As I said before, those who question depend on those who do not.
David Chasteen epitomized the kind of sacrifice at stake when he said he did it for “some things” that are more important. He did not explain, nor did he feel an explanation was owed. That generations had unquestioningly defended “some things” was enough.
War is too dangerous a business for nations to think through. They must have that caste trained to simply react.
I couldn’t get over how self absorbed and ungrateful this post is. We can’t thank the men and women who went to war for us because we didn’t thank the people who stayed home and had to go to work in industry? What? War made your parents marry to early and be bad parents? Do you want some cheese with that whine?
The reason people stayed here and went to work in industry – or took care of the kids etc. is because they didn’t want to go to war ! I wouldn’t want to either. That’s why we all thank the armed forces, they risk their lives to fight for the rest of us so that we don’t have to.
Whether you believe in war or not, the members of the armed forces are heroes and I’m happy to set aside a day to salute them. Makes more sense then Columbus Day…
In Canada we have Remembrance Day on November 11th and observe a moment of silence at 11am.
It is out of respect for the men who were DRAFTED to serve in World War Two – men who had not much of a choice and who gave us and you the freedom we have today.
Your Veterans Day in the U.S. is something I’m not familiar with
Let me preface this comment by saying I am a staunch liberal, I’m not a jingoist who wraps herself in the flag when leaving comments on blogs, and I think “don’t ask don’t tell” is just plain stupid and illogical. However, I am the granddaughter of a WWII vet who served in the Pacific, I am the daughter of an Air Force Officer (physician who could opted to serve over cash for a portion of her life), a sister of a current enlisted AF member (he has a double major in International Business and Marketing but thanks to the AF he now speaks Chinese fluently) and was once a dependent wife of an enlisted AF NCO (he is now a CPA, his employers have all commented on the fact they LIKE to employ veterans due to high leadership qualities the military instills in individuals) so I may be biased. But, your post is the most self absorbed, poorly written, nonsensical, blither blather I have read in quite awhile. Yes, here in the US everyone is entitled to their opinion, but you sound like someone who was just taken out to the most expensive, most luxurious dinner of her lifetime and then had the audacity to not even say “thank you” because you’re just entitled to that sort of thing. You can thank a veteran for that sense of entitlement. Our pampered life here is because of these individuals that write that “a blank check” for the rest of us. No one, but a veteran, writes a blank check for their LIFE. Putting yourself in harms way for your country is in no way the same “as men who give up high-paying jobs to run for office, women who campaigned for the right to vote, parents who sacrifice health insurance in order to work at a non-profit that can't afford insurance.” While those are admirable they aren’t even in the same league. You state “both WWII Vets I’ve know personally,” if you only know two WWII vets I suggest you get out more and speak with other veterans, go take some history and political science classes and then maybe you could come to the table with something other than entitlement. You speak of families left behind and as a former military wife I would like to say that I was and am very proud of my husband’s service. I would like to ask you a question; how does taking away Veteran’s Day in anyway honor the families of the 433 US service members who gave their lives, the 20 troops that have died so far this month? What about the 576 wounded troops (through July 2010)? Could you look at a military family member in the eye and state I think we should cancel Veteran’s Day and not just type it on a blog?