You can’t manage your work life if you can’t talk about it
Recently I ran the following twitter:
“I’m in a board meeting. Having a miscarriage. Thank goodness, because there’s a fucked-up 3-week hoop-jump to have an abortion in Wisconsin.”
Why the uproar over this twitter?
Not only have bloggers written whole posts about the disgustingness of it, but 70 people unfollowed me, and people actually came to my blog and wrote complaints about the twitter on random, unrelated posts.
So, to all of you who think the twitter was outrageous, think about this:
Most miscarriages happen at work. Twenty-five percent of pregnancies end in miscarriage. Seventy-five percent of women who are of child-bearing age are working. Most miscarriages run their course over weeks. Even if you are someone who wanted the baby and are devastated by the loss, you’re not going to sit in bed for weeks. You are going to pick up your life and get back to it, which includes going back to work.
This means that there are thousands of miscarriages in progress, at work, on any given day. That we don’t acknowledge this is absurd. That it is such a common occurrence and no one thinks it’s okay to talk about is terrible for women.
Throughout history, the way women have gained control of the female experience is to talk about what is happening, and what it’s like. We see that women’s lives are more enjoyable, more full, and women are more able to summon resilience when women talk openly about their lives.
To all of you who said a miscarriage is gross: Are you unaware that the same blood you expel from a miscarriage is what you expel during menstruation? Are you aware that many people are having sex during menstruation and getting it on the sheets? Are you aware that many women actually like period sex? Wait. Here is a link I love, at askmen.com, telling men that women like it so much that men need to be aware of this preference.
To all of you who are aghast that I let myself get pregnant: having sex is playing with odds. There are no 100% sure methods of birth control. I am 42 years old. The likelihood of someone my age getting pregnant even with fertility treatment is less than 5%. The likelihood that a pregnancy in someone my age ends in a miscarriage is almost 75%. This means that even if I had done nothing for birth control it would have been as effective as a 25-year-old using a condom. So everyone who is complaining that I’m an idiot for getting pregnant should go buy a calculator.
To all of you who said I should not be happy about having a miscarriage: You are the ones short on empathy. Any woman who is pregnant but wishes she weren’t would of course be grateful when she has a miscarriage. Yes, there are many women who want the baby and have a miscarriage. I was one of them. I cried for days. I get it.
But if you have ever had an abortion, which I have, you would know that a miscarriage is preferable to an abortion. Even the Pope would agree with that.
And what is up with the fact that just one, single person commented about how Wisconsin has a three-week waiting period for abortions? It is absolutely outrageous how difficult it was going to be for me to get an abortion, and it’s outrageous that no one is outraged.
Wisconsin is one of twelve states that have 24-hour waiting periods. This puts a huge burden on an overworked system. These are also the states where there are few ways to get an abortion. For example, in Wisconsin, the only place to get abortion that is covered by insurance is at a Planned Parenthood clinic. There are 3 of them in all of Wisconsin. In Chicago, you can get an abortion at Planned Parenthood with less than 24 hours notice. In Wisconsin, there is a week and a half wait to get the first meeting and a week and half wait to get the abortion.
A digression: I’m linking to Planned Parenthood so everyone can make a donation. This organization is enabling women to have the right to abortion. Planned Parenthood seems to be the only effective, community-level force against states that are attempting to legislate the choice into oblivion.
To all of you who think this has nothing to do with work:
I think what really upsets people is the topic. We are not used to talking about the female experience, and especially not in the context of work. But so what? We can start now. The female experience is part of work. What we talk about when we talk about work defines how we integrate work into our lives. If work is going to support our lives, then we need to talk about how our lives interact with work. We need to be honest about the interaction if we hope to be honest about our work.
Penelope, you are my hero. Never doubt for one second your right to speak your truth, or the validity of your feelings. Never doubt that you speak for thousands of other women who don’t speak up because we are pressured to feel like monsters for not believing every abortion and every miscarriage is a tragedy.
I’ve never had a miscarriage but I’ve had an abortion. I think a miscarriage would be way worse, as in off the scale. Is this just my imagination? Physically, abortions are very straight forward, quick and painless. Just in the US there is a lot of ridiculous and unecessary stigma.
I don’t think you are pro-choice at all…you are condescending and judgemental, and quite naive…lets be clear, we live in a country where it is still VERY hard for women to work in a career and choose to have a family. Men can have as many children as they want and nobody questions their capabilities to perform their job. But women are constantly questioned if they will be competent once they start a family.
I am pro-choice, but I am curious about one thing?
If you would have been inconvenienced and gone through with the abortion, would you have blamed it on your career again like the last two abortions? In the other two cases you mentioned a number of reasons why it wasn’t the right time for you to have a baby, but then pinned it on your career. I am sure you have your reasons now too, and not only your career, especially since you just announced your fabulous new job?
Many young women think they have to choose between family and career. When you wrote that you had abortions for your career (when several other factors were involved), I was disappointed that the myth is perpetuated.
I not even going to discuss my personal feelings on abortion here because you know what…it doesn’t matter. And quite frankly it’s none of your business. Just as Penelope’s opinion and decisions about her body have nothing to do with any of us. If she wants to discuss them, fine, if not, that’s fine too. If you want to donate to NARAL, or donate to Planned Parenthood, go nuts.
However, I am literally sickened and disgusted by women who are so insensitive to the right of other women to make decisions for themselves, and their own bodies and their own families. Just by saying this, I’m sure there are some who will assume that they know how I vote on abortion (and I can guarantee that pretty much any of those opinions is probably wrong), or what I think about abortion or life, because they’re so hell-bent on judging other women’s decisions…and that’s the really sick part to me of many of these comments.
If this is how women treat each other womens’ sovereignty, I guess we don’t even need men anymore to uphold the status quo. I guess feminism has evolved to the point where we are so free that we feel our power and it makes us want to imprison other people with our judgment…as well as ourselves.
Rock out! It’s your blog, your twitter…say what you need to say. I think it’s important women talk about women’s issues or they’ll just get swept under the rug or illegalized. Kudos for having that guts to say what really happen in a day. And thank you.
I’m a 28 year old female who studied Women’s Studies in college. I took two courses on the biology of human sexuality and never shy away from interesting conversations about sex, relationships, bodily functions, etc, yet have never once encountered information anywhere that a miscarriage is something that can take many weeks to go through! I honestly thought it was like labor–a few hours, tops…
Regardless of my opinion about your Tweet, I’m glad we’re discussing this because I learned something new. If I ever have to go through something that awful, the duration will not be a shock to me.
Thank you, thank you, thank you for this post.
I think you are wonderfully courageous, and LOVE what you have to say!! Thank You, Thank You, Thank You
Thanks for this post. It really does speak to the female condition. There are so many things that we (as women) go through alone becasue we simply don’t feel like we are allowed to talk about it. I was sitting in class one day, about a week after having a miscarriage, and when I stood up to leave, blood just gushed out of me (visible on my clothes). Was is gross? Yes. Was it my fault? Should I have felt as horrified and ashamed as I did? No.
Thank you for speaking up. I hope you are feeling well.
Well, wasn't this interesting on so very many levels?!
Penelope wrote on Twitter about a very traumatic personal experience that was happening to her during a business meeting. Then she followed it up with a blog expanding on the subject. This is what Penelope does for a living. She writes about business and personal issues involving business in a style of total candor.
The reaction? People claimed to be shocked, grossed-out, amazed, disgusted, found her to be unconscionable, mean, nasty, silly, offensive, bizarre, off-put(ing), drama-seeking, cavalier, narcissistic, callous, & flippant. (Did I miss anything?) Additionally, JP called Penelope a dumbass, Cody referred to her as an uninformed no-talent attention-whore, Delila accused her of having Asberger's Syndrome, several comments implied that she chose to tweet as an alternative to hospitalization, and multiple people assumed that she uses abortion as her only form of contraception. Talk about presumptive!
And then, of course, we have Dan who is in a category all by himself. I cannot help but feel that if Dan wants to write this much, he should get his own d*#! blog and rant till his fingers fall off.
But the most interesting part of this absurdity is that at least half of the responses completely ignored THE SUBJECT OF THE BLOG, which was that women have health issues that differ from those of men and until we are able to openly acknowledge that fact, women are at a terrible disadvantage in the workplace. Instead of addressing that very specific issue, folks wanted to talk about G-d, politics, morals, mothers, religion, tubal ligation, the pro-life movement, vengeance, and that coward who will identify him/her/itself as only "E" imploring Penelope to get mental help.
I think that the responses proved Penelope's original point. If women's "problems," e.g. menstruation, pregnancy, miscarriage, menopause, hormonal imbalance, and even legal inequity (I suspect there's no legally-mandated wait for a vasectomy), weren't treated as our dirty little secret, then:
– ¢ Al wouldn't have had to leave her job after her miscarriage,
– ¢ Jen wouldn't have sat at home and grieved alone because the subject of miscarriage was "taboo" at work,
– ¢ Kristin wouldn't have to hide in the company bathroom each month, grinding her teeth,
– ¢ And Kelly might have gotten some scintilla of concern from at least one of her female co-workers
We are women. We work (often because we have no choice). We have unique health issues. In 1909 these health issues were considered an embarrassment. In 2009 they are a fact of life and we need to deal with them openly in the workplace in order to work more effectively. Penelope is at the forefront of this movement, as usual, and I commended for her honesty. Whether I agree or disagree with the personal decisions she makes about her body or her communication technique is completely irrelevant to the subject.
Thank you, Kay, for the fabulous round-up.
And thank you, Penelope, for your openness.
@Kay said: “Additionally, JP called Penelope a dumbass, Cody referred to her as an uninformed no-talent attention-whore, Delila accused her of having Asberger's Syndrome, several comments implied that she chose to tweet as an alternative to hospitalization, and multiple people assumed that she uses abortion as her only form of contraception. Talk about presumptive!”
@Kay Yes, “dumbass”, “whore” etc is clearly abuse, and not warranted. However, not all of what you have quoted above is abuse and nor is all of it as presumptuous (I think that’s what you meant as ‘presumptive’ means something quite different) as you might think. I don’t know how long you’ve been reading this blog but Penelope herself is the one who says she has Asperger’s Syndrome (as does one of her sons). Additionally, Penelope has spoken about her contraceptive choices in the past.
Hey, Catlin, thanks for calling me on that presumptive vs. presumptuous thing. You are absolutely correct, I did mean to say presumptuous. Mr. Miller, my former English teacher, would be horrified. I am fairly new to Penelope’s blog and wasn’t aware that she and her son have Asperger’s Syndrome. I plan to look that blog up, as this is a subject of some interest to me. Finally, thank you for your respectful tone in your comment. You could have called me a dumbass, and had the full support of my ex-husband.
Ok- first off- I’m happy things worked out for you the way they did. And I’m a big advocate for Planned Parenthood. In fact thats how I found this article.
The thing I am wondering about is that you are suggesting that being 42 years old and using no protection is just as effective as using a condom at any age younger than that? I think my calculator and I both agree that wearing a condom at any age is more effective than -basically- leaving it up to chance. Which is what you were suggesting that you were doing.
As I see it your choice effects you and yours so everyone else should leave you alone regarding your personal choices. However when you advocate that at your age no protection for you is as good as protection for everyone else I am concerned that this is a major misinformation for your readers. One of the reason I am a very big fan of Planned Parenthood is because they work very hard to give accurate and up to date sex education. And clearly they have heard your voice and your story and thought it was important enough to link to it. And perhaps the bigger picture in your story was regarding the Big A and this is just an aside- but I think you are doing them a dis-service with your statistics.
I hope others have brought this to your attention. Good Luck with those pro-lifers.
@cheetl This is a good point about the statistics. Also because your chance of miscarriage, pregnancy complications or birth defects is much higher with an older pregnancy, you could argue it’s even more important to use birth control and prevent unwanted pregnancies in one’s forties, until menopause finishes.
Thank you for posting this.
I appreciate your honesty and openness on this subject and totally agree that we all need to become more comfortable talking about it – ALL of it.
I had a miscarriage on a business trip, and had to be rushed by my boss to the ER in a strange city. How much did that suck?!
I had to go back to work and face all these coworkers who had unintentionally stumbled into a very private and painful moment in my life. None of us had any idea how or whether to talk about it. No tools exist in our culture to deal with it. So we didn’t. And that sucks, too.
I had a miscarriage at work as well a few year’s back. Being a massage therapist I had asked for my employer not to book me any more appointment’s because I was having “health issues”. When I came to work they had me booked for 8 sessions back to back without a lunch break. I miscarried during my shift silently while giving bodywork. It was surreal for sure. I quit my job and started working for myself after that day.
The thing I am wondering about is that you are suggesting that being 42 years old and using no protection is just as effective as using a condom at any age younger than that? I think my calculator and I both agree that wearing a condom at any age is more effective than -basically- leaving it up to chance. Which is what you were suggesting that you were doing.
No, cheetl, you have this all mixed up. First off, she did not suggest that’s what she was doing (she explicity said “even if I had done nothing for birth control…”).
Also, you are misunderstanding the statistics. If the above numbers are correct, that means for a 42 year old having unprotected sex, the chance of conceiving and successfully carrying to term (i.e., not miscarrying) is about 1 1/4 percent (twenty-five percent of five percent of the time) . Which is quite similar to the odds of a 25 year old conceiving and carrying to term while using condoms.
This doesn’t, of course, mean that the 42 year old’s odds aren’t even lower if they used birth control… but that isn’t what she claimed.
Sorry, the above should have been a direct reply to “Posted by cheeetl on 09/25/2009 at 04:13pm”
And “Which is quite similar”… would have been more clear as “Which she claimed is quite similar …”
I’ll stop replying to myself now.
i only found you a few minutes ago but i am now following you on twiter out of solidarity (and couse you’re pretty great too). i am pro-choice and have used my right to a safe and legal abortion. keep doing what you do.
Happy new year!
Sarah
edit: cause
I think it’s interesting that many of you are jumping to the conclusion that just because someone says you should show some respect for the fetus means that you are pro-life/anti-abortion. I see many upset at Penelope’s flippant attitude toward her pregnancy but very few actually upset at her choice to get an abortion. Most people are saying what they mean: life deserves some respect, even if you don’t intend to keep it.
I applaud you for not only the twitter but also in being so forthright and honest about your life situations. Thanks for sharing with us about your travails–all were a good basis to get women thinking about how they share their usually secret struggles with others.
I have recently had three unwanted miscarriages in a row and I think that becoming slightly “uncalloused” and harsh about things, kind of comes with the territory. At least it has for me. So I can totally relate to the tone of your post. I feel like life or whatever is screwing me over right now, so politeness and political correctness can take a back seat while I express my emotions in whatever way makes me feel better. And anyone who hasn’t been in that situation before, has no idea what it feels like, therefore, they are the ones who have no right to comment. A person’s emotions are theirs alone. No one can tell anyone else how they are supposed to feel or react, especially to a miscarriage. And I wish they never have to know.
Thank you! It shouldn’t have to be so hard to tell co-workers about a miscarriage. (Especially after I’ve had to hear all about their trick knees / kidney problem / etc. etc. for years.) Love the blog. Keep it coming.
Personally as someone who has had a miscarriage from an unintended pregnancy that almost cost me my life and as someone who works for planned parenthood I’m actually really offended by this. Miscarriages are very common but sometimes they can have very terrible results. Since mine happened two days before I was supposed to have an abortion and is the reason I will never be able to have children I wake up every morning wishing I had been able to have an abortion/ proper medical attention. So while I agree with some of what you wrote I think that the claim miscarriage is preferable to an abortion is not always a true one and I am really offended by it, as well as by your assumption that no one gets in bed for days afterwards. I was put on bed rest for three months. Just because something happens a lot doesn’t make it okay and you just trivialized something that can be a really detrimental experience. As many here have pointed out it is different for everyone and no one should tell anyone how to feel about this. But your article makes it sound like miscarriage is always an ordinary thing. I agree that people don’t talk about this issue enough, but part of that stems from it being a private and personal issue that is different for everyone, but this article still made a lot of assumptions and given how offended I am by this as someone who has, as I said, worked with choice groups since I was a teenager, I’m not surprised that other people farther from the issue were horrified.
Are you ok?
Babycakes—- you have evry right to feel as you wish and all the self-annointed saviors can all go screw…and all the ones who act as if this is beyond gross…welll…one can always take ones eyes elsewheres.
Pregnant with twins and and spent twelve weeks bleeding and hoping the other baby would make it—we did not make it to viability… thanks to the lovely laws in my state had to go before a panel of doctors to have a late term medically needed abortion…thankfully we got to have a live birth followed by a lovey infection instead of the dreaded abortion. Many idiotic responses followed….ranging from we deserved a bad outcome since we were were willing to abort(had almost bled out 3 times at that point—) To God has a little flower for his garden….nobody volunteers their kids for this garden….
Love yourself enough to take what is helpful and to hell with the rest… many hugs and sooner or later the burden does get a little easier to bear.
Thank you for – talking' about it. I had 4 miscarriages before I had my son, two of which began at work. Both times, my body went into labor; I could count the minutes between contractions.
When a woman births a live child, it is a time of celebration that everyone wants to talk about, that is, when she returns to work after 12 weeks of maternity leave. When a fetus/child dies and a woman miscarries, everyone avoids her and she is left to mourn in silence as she returns to work the very next day. Even though the physical process is the same and there has been a death in the family, no mourning or physical recovery time is allowed.
Penelope, you did exactly what you set out to do, you have women discussing miscarraiges and abortions. Great job!
It always amazes me to hear men opine about what is striclty a female body/medical issue. Men, you have the fun part, you ejaculate, whoop dee damn dooo, this does not give you the right to 9 months of a part of you inhabitating our uterus. When a man’s reproductive rights are questioned and or threatened is when I will respect their opinion on the subject. Until then, what they say holds no merit with me.
It also astounds me that so many from the religous right (which I deem an oxymoron btw)are against empowering our young men and women with knowledge of birth control. They would rather teach abstinence only.. in utter ignorance. A study came out last week that found the more religious the state, the higher the rates of teen pregnancy. I grew up in the bible belt and am a statistic myself. But even with this news they will not admit failing their kids.
Penelope you may have lost some followers because of your posts, but you have gained some as well.
I think the issue here is it is a deeply personal experience to be pregnant — wanted or not and to lose it or chose to lose it — it is personal and intimate. We need to support each other in the personal sphere of good friends and communities but to publicize this on a twitter or facebook or other social network site is the piece that bothers. Talking about it, normalizing it, that is ok (and needed), but what do we have to gain by airing our feelings on this radical, impersonal sphere of computer space? I question this. (midwife in vermont)
At least some people in this thread have said that they learnt something they didn’t know – that miscarriages can take days/weeks to complete and that they are not necessarily a medical emergency that requires an ambulance ride to the hospital. (obviously anything that looks like a haemorrhage needs a hospital visit, but that is not how most miscarriages happen)
It’s not just about airing feelings. It’s also about airing facts.
However, there is also a particular value to sharing feelings in an online forum – you say they should be confined to support groups in face-to-face communities, but far too often they simply don’t happen there. What about the women upthread who have shared their sense of loneliness (and resentment) that noone talked to them about their grief following miscarriage? What about the other women who felt ashamed that they were relieved about a miscarriage and couldn’t talk about that to anyone either?
There is great value in being able to be open about those feelings in an online forum when people around us simply don’t want to talk about them.
Thank you for this twitter update AND this blog post!
You are brilliant, strong, and a bold voice for women. I have always admired and respected you for making the personal political and this is no exception.
Thank you for putting it out there.
Thank you for keeping it real.
Thank you for using your voice!
Thank you for speaking the truth.
I believe it’s a need to have freedom of choice. I used to believe that I would never have an abortion. Until I was raped by my boyfriend. Then everything I “knew” went out the window. I was beyond scared. Luckily, I didn’t get pregnant. But I didn’t have anyone to talk to. No woman ever told me what that kind of situation would be like. They don’t really cover that in sex-ed classes and everyone else views sex and unwanted babies as such a taboo subject. Years later, I can’t be on hormonal birth control b/c it affects my health, I’ve had an abortion with the man I love, I’ve had a baby with the man I love, and I’ve experienced a miscarriage with the man I love. And I can’t say that I’ve ever had anyone meaningfully talk to me about any of the subjects. I suffered from pre-eclampsia, HELLP syndrome and hemmorraged when I had my daughter. I’d be a high-risk pregnancy if I tried again, and we’re too scared to take that risk. If I got pregnant by accident, I don’t know what I’d think. I would hope that no one would force me to try. I was on bedrest for a month just to have my daughter. And the amount of pain you feel when a doctor scrapes out your uterus with her hands is quite unbearable. I don’t think I could do that again. My husband and I do everything we can to not get pregnant again, though I do want another child.
Believe me, I’ve seen I range of things. I know what it feels like to have your heart broken after losing a planned pregnancy and the relief of the single line on the pregnancy test. I still haven’t stopped crying about my abortion. And, oh by the way, I was let go from my job when I had to be on bedrest when I was pregnant. They said they needed to downsize and as I was already gone though temporarily, it was more convenient to let me go. I think a lot of that kind of thing would be handled more fairly (like who is the better worker) if we did have more understanding in the work place, if there was more discussion.
So my point is, thank you, Penelope for trying to make these kinds of subjects an everyday life discussion. I wish someone would’ve talked to me about a lot of it.
I am so sorry about your unplanned pregnancy and your miscarriage. I had a miscarriage during a biology exam. Like you, it was unplanned, and I mourned but was also relieved.
You are awesome for taking on the frothing, obnoxious, judgmental masses. Don’t let them shame us anymore.
You got guts, girl. You talk about anything you want.
If it’s any consolation, many of the tactics used on this thread are the same crap thrown at us thirty years ago.
Some things, alas, never change. Except the right of a woman to be in charge of her own body … that gets clearer and clearer.
The State ends right before my uterus begins.
“Penelope, you aren’t feeling the right feelings!” Those are the replies that make me laugh hardest. I’m not sure how one is supposed to feel when miscarrying the pregnancy they did not want. And neither does anyone else, unless they’ve miscarried an unwanted pregnancy. My ex said I should want to cook for him because I was a woman and that’s what women want to do – cook for their husbands. We are, I suppose, also supposed to WANT to have babies and we are supposed to be sad if we can’t/don’t. But we shockingly and defiantly refuse to do what we are supposed to be wired to do. Our feelings are what they are; people are just more comfortable when we do not share them openly. Unless they are the “right” feelings, then it’s okay.
I’ve been very fortunate (and careful!) to never be pregnant, as I never wanted children. At 28, I asked for a tubal ligation but, ironically, no doctor would perform it because I didn’t have any children. I wish that everyone who wanted children could bare them when they want them; I never felt that I should simply because I, presumably, can.
I’m shocked that, because you want to use your insurance, you are *gasp* forced to use a specific provider. That’s sort of like the insurance company controlling your health care, isn’t it? Ironic.
I’ve never been pregnant, but I think that if I did have an unwanted pregnancy, and ended up miscarrying, I would probably be relieved. I think I lot of women in that situation would. What’s the point of telling someone how they “should” or “shouldn’t” feel? People are gonna feel however they feel whether or not you think it’s right.
So why comment on a experience you haven’t had?
Well, I’ve seen at least one post from a man telling us what abortion is or isn’t like, and how it does or doesn’t compare to other experiences. Why not respond to one of them? I can guarantee that guy never had a D&C.
People speculate. It’s what we do. At least in this case Karen is thinking about a situation she could, plausibly, find herself in.
It’s interesting to see how the pro-life nuts crawl out of the Bibles whenever the word “abortion” is mentioned without the sentence being laced with expletives and something erratic about a divine entity.
I didn’t realize this post was about advocating abortion. In fact, I missed that part entirely.
As for the people who peppered this page with the always fresh “Excuse me while I go donate…” line, I wonder how many of those people actually donated money to the particular cause they mentioned. I’m guessing it’s hovering somewhere around zero percent.
Pro-life nuts crawling out of their Bibles? Really? Did you feel clever after you wrote such a sentence? …Just don’t ever pride yourself on not being judgmental. You are.
I have a question for Penelope—if you are 42 years old and don’t want any more kids, why don’t you have permanent sterilization done?
Maybe because female sterilization requires major abdominal surgery with anesthesia, and she could die?
I saw the Tweet and didn’t reply because I thought hearing from a stranger wouldn’t be helpful, but maybe I was wrong. But what I would have said is that a three week wait is total bullshit, and hopefully you are doing all right physically and emotionally and that even though I don’t know you, I was quite concerned. I didn’t think it was at all inappropriate a thing to share and I think the squemish and judgmental can just go find something else to do with their time that’s right in their narrow comfort zone. Those of us who are real women can continue to support each other and share our experiences to better understand that we are not alone. All best to you, and I’ll reply in the future.
Just wanted you to know I think you’re awesome for that tweet, and for standing by it. You’re totally right to be outraged, I’m outraged for you, and I hope you’re doing great. All my best.
I’m following you now, BECAUSE of that tweet. People just can’t handle straight-talk sometimes.
PT lies about everything, so why would anyone believe a tweet from a twit?
Belinda, if you really think that Penelope lies about everything why the heck are you following her blog?
First of all, I commend you Penelope on talking about this when it’s still such a taboo subject still. Come ON, almost 2010 and it’s still the dark ages when it comes to abortion and miscarriage?
I don’t know why being at work is even a factor. If you were having a miscarriage, why not at work? Why is having one at home better? Life goes on, sometimes you can’t get the day off. No one has a right to say anything.
As for you being happy about it, if you weren’t planning for a baby you couldn’t have wanted one that badly. IT IS OK AT ANY AGE OR CIRCUMSTANCE TO NOT WANT CHILDREN, OR TO APPRECIATE NOT HAVING TO CHOOSE WANTING THEM. I support, understand, and do not blame you or think less of you for having those feelings.
Also, I think it’s commendable not to want to have a child grow for 3 more weeks if it has to eventually be taken care of anyway. Also, I’d be glad if I didn’t have to be the one to choose to get rid of it. If it happens naturally, that’s no one’s fault or choice and forgive her for trying to find the silver lining in such a painful situation. That post was obviously posted with sarcasm and a hint of temporary bitterness. I mean come on! She was having a miscarriage. Those who were not in her shoes have no right to tell her how they fit or where to run. It’s her body, and her responsibility to undertake. If you aren’t willing to compensate for all her shortcomings where that potential child would have been concerned, then you have no right to comment on how she feels about not having to deal with what they might have been.
I’m pro birth control and being careful, but I don’t blame her for getting pregnant because like it was stated, there’s a very slim chance that she could have even conceived at her age. But more then that, I’m pro minding my own business if it doesn’t effect me. Those of you who have left nasty, judgemental comments have left them and won’t be bothered ever again. She’ll have to deal with it the rest of her life.
It sounds like a lot of people took your tweet out of context, they probably had it pointed out to them by a third party and just made assumptions about what you meant (you have to admit that by itself, without knowing the context of the situation, the tweet sounds really callous). Such are the perils of the internet age I guess, nobody takes the time to fully learn about something before making a snap judgment about it, and then they think everyone wants to hear about that judgment.
Just thank you, thank you, thank you, for writing about these kinds of things. Miscarriage is common. Pregnancy is not always a great joy. And yes, it is fucking outrageous that Wisconson makes you wait three weeks for something that is a) your right and b) safer the earlier it is done.
(Hopefully having these kinds of conversations will change things– there are a lot of replies from people who seem to be seriously underinformed.)
I am some random 22 year old engineering student. I really have no direct interest nor can I truly relate to most of what you blog about. Yet I have been reading this for about a year now and this is the first time I have brought myself to comment on one of your posts:
You are truly amazing. I admire your courage and resolve to speak truthfully about your life. It is a shame more women (and men) cannot bring themselves to even think outside of the little bubble that is their lives.
We need more people like you in this world.
I imagine that many people seem to lack empathy given the totally callous way you shared this (not to mention the fact that you shared it, full stop). Even if you were going to have an abortion, it is a bit heartless and certainly not classy, or professional, to tweet about this sort of a thing. It really is difficult to believe you advise people on work-related issues, yet have no sense of professional public conduct. And I would imagine that most people have failed to mention the waiting requirements for abortions becasue your stunningly tacky behaviour has distracted from it – if you want to discuss the availibility of abortions, you should bring up the subject in a dignified (read non-personal), appropriate way.
Thank you for discussing this important topic. Shame on all the people trying to tell people what they should or should not feel or what they should or should not talk about. If it upsets you, no-one forced you to read it.
Ooh, Isabelle thinks abortions and miscarriage are not classy and that it is a tacky subject to even discuss. Women have to uphold their dignity after all, otherwise we won’t be valued by men *gasp*.
Abortion is always going to be a personal topic, Isabelle, and if you don’t feel that way then may I say you are lucky for not desiring to have vanilla heterosexual sex so the issue of abortion has never come up in your life.
This is SUCH an important point. Thank you for reminding us.
I hope you’re OK, and healing steadily.
I have enjoyed reading Penelope’s posts in the past and always found she had just the right balance of content and controversy. But with this twitter she crosses the line. I won’t go into how messed up she sounds on so many levels.
I hate to add to the comments count with this, but I just find myself so repulsed by the kind of person who would write a twitter like that – were you trying to create a furor by posting that? Goodbye Penelope.
First I am responding to David who advised me to go work as a social worker dealing with abused children. How utterly arrogant of you. First of all, like Penelope, I was horribly abused both physically and sexually as a child. I don’t want you deciding for me to end my life to prevent my suffering. I am quite sure that Penelope would not have wanted to be aborted either in spite of her abuse. Abused children often gravitate towards the helping professions. I am who I am today because of the abuse. I don’t advocate abusing children, but children are remarkably resilient and can rise above their background. Oprah too was horribly abused and she is the richest woman in the world.
I have indeed worked with abused children. I went to nursing school and grad school for Clinical Psych. I am working in a helping profession now. Most of the abused children were wanted children. Again, you presume and condascend.
Serenity you mounted an ad hominem hateful attack on Marisa which is all too common with liberals. They want hate speech legislation enacted and yet the liberals are the most egregious offenders of hate speech. Why could you just not disagree with Marisa instead of calling her names? I have read every single post on here by both liberals and conservatives. I have not found one single hateful comment or name calling by a conservative, yet the liberals are all condascending and making hateful comments to conservatives
You show your ignorance of basic biology when you say fetuses can’t feel pain. First of all, they have a heartbeat and working circulatory system 18 days from conception, and they have brain wave activity that we can detect at 42 days from conception. It has been proven over and over that they do indeed have nerves and recoil from pain as well as have taste buds and react to sweetness injected into the uterus.
You then presume to lecture Marisa that she knows nothing about what God feels. No one has a divine connection and can know what God feels. She speaks about what God says in the Bible.
I say again, you people are willing to do to unborn babies what you would not do to an unborn puppy, rip them apart limb from limb without anesthetic. Again, there is a $10,000 fine and a 5 year prison sentence for destroying a bald eagle egg.
Finally as to telling women what to do with their bodies, we have laws on the books that tell people what they can and cannot do. I suppose you would tell a dad who is sexually abusing his daughter like in his case what to do with his daughter. I dare say, Penelope’s dad would tell you to mind your own business and don’t tell him what to do with his own daughter? He was only exercising his right to choose to have sexual satisfaction with his own daughter. Are you going to insist on taking away his RIGHT TO CHOOSE?
@John Wilder said: “I have read every single post on here by both liberals and conservatives. I have not found one single hateful comment or name calling by a conservative, yet the liberals are all condascending and making hateful comments to conservatives.”
I guess that’s not including yourself because I thought your previous comments were actually pretty hateful.
No, you are the one doing that. The perception of pain requires a functioning/developed neural cortex (which born puppies do possess, and which fetuses before 20-22 weeks gestation do not possess). The other in utero fetal reactions you speak of are spinal proprioceptive reflexes, which develop much earlier, and without a developed cortex the fetus does not perceive that movement as happening, either.
Again, as someone said upthread, there is no fine at all for destroying a chicken’s egg. The difference is that one species is endangered and the other is not. The human species is not endangered.
John, I found your comments to be EXTREMELY hateful.
Penelope, I replied earlier to a technical misunderstanding in one of the other comments (and messed up the interface). I realized that somehow I forgot to say thank you for opening this particular can of worms. You probably knew it would get some peoples knickers in a twist, too.
It’s ridiculous for a subject like this to be taboo in the workplace (or at home). As you point
The people telling you how you ought to feel about it, on the other hand, are being a bit pathetic, of course. A different person, or yourself at a different time, might feel differently about it. Thanks for being honest about your response. It’s only through understanding the spectrum of possible experiences a little bit that people can possible get better at understanding how this situation, which is natural and common, will affect women they work with (or live with, for that matter).