A case study in staying resilient: My divorce
My husband and I are getting a divorce. It’s really hard to write this for a lot of reasons, but the one that comes to mind this moment is that it’s so crappy to be in the middle of a divorce when I make a living telling people how to run their lives.
Fortunately I also make a living scouring the world for good research. And, while I have spent forever telling you that relationships make us happier than money, I am really pleased to find some research that says that for some people marriage is like a raise in pay, and it only makes us happy for a couple of years, and then we go back to our baseline of happiness.
This is not true for the kids, of course. There is extremely persuasive research that no one likes to hear, that says that kids do not notice that their parents are unhappy in a marriage. In this seminal study, Judith Wallerstein tracked a large sample of children of divorce for 25 years. And she found that unless there is violence in the home, kids suffer more from parents getting a divorce than staying in a bad marriage. This research is what has kept me in my marriage. But now I am learning that marriage is a little like fertility in that I cannot control everything.
So really, I guess I have to say that you shouldn’t take my advice about marriage, because I failed. But then I think, hold it, I have failed at least once in just about everything I have tried, and I think that’s what makes my advice work. How do you know what you’re doing wrong if you are not failing? How do you ever learn your limits?
Here’s the process I go through to tell myself that I’ll be okay after this divorce: I think about when I used to practice volleyball. If you spent the day practicing a shot you knew how to do, what was the point of practicing that day? Where was the learning curve? Where was the growth?
I think that one reason people listen to me about choosing a career is because I chose so badly, so many times. And bounced back. And I think that one reason that Wired just asked me to write a column on how to start a business is because I have started one and seen it go under. And then done another.
We should all know that success is as much about resiliency as it is about luck and skill. And at this point, I think it’s safe to say that while I have luck and skill, I am most gifted in the resiliency department.
So maybe getting a divorce will make for better advice. Or more humility. Which I’m sure are related, by the way.
There’s a study I read in the New York Times about how the people who are most happy with life are people who can create complicated scenarios to explain why a given situation is not so bad. That is me, right now.
To be honest, I’ve had a lot of time to perform those mental gymnastics since I’ve known for a while about the divorce. I waited to tell you because I didn’t want to blog about it when I was crying. Everyone has their limits, even me. And besides, I’ve been raising a round of funding for my company, and what a terrible post to have up on a day when investors are reading my blog.
Anyway, during the time between crying and deciding that I’m the queen of resiliency, I stumbled across this information about my Myers Briggs type: ENTJ. There are sixteen personality types. ENTJs make up 4% of the general population and 80% of the population of executives.
Here’s the news about ENTJs in a marriage:
“Gender issues are especially significant for ENTJ females. As a type, their arrogant, confrontational manner and need for control can appear to be quite ‘unwomanly’ to others. Of course, the problem intensifies for the ENTJ female when dealing with men. Their demanding, objective, competent, and independent nature is not particularly endearing to most men.”
But, being the optimist I am, I kept looking and found this:
“These qualities may obscure the fact that ENTJ females can be quite nurturing and caring. For them, femininity is not defined by traditional roles. It is reflected in the total involvement and commitment they bring to each moment of life.”
Here’s what I’ve been doing while I’ve been not blogging about the divorce: I’ve been thinking about dating. It’s my nature—being an ENTJ means planning the future. I’m very future oriented. And I can’t help wondering where the female ENTJs are in the marriage world. How those marriages work out. Right now, I can’t even imagine how an ENTJ date would work out.
But I’m starting to remember that all the skills I’ve learned in my career will be useful to my personal life right now: don’t focus on shortcomings and play to your strengths instead; be kind and caring to the people around you to improve any situation, and most of all—setbacks don’t matter as much as bouncing back.
Hey Penelope,
Sorry to hear about the divorce, but for those of us who have been reading for a while, it seemed a foregone conclusion right from the first post about your problems. It probably wasn’t a revelation that came up just recently for you. It seemed that there was a lot of contempt from both sides which didn’t seem to get any better thru counselling or blogging. I am not an advocate of divorce unless there is some danger to one spouse or their children, but I can see how a bad relationship that affects the way the kids are taught would make for a bad future for them. Maybe that in itself could be a “reason” to separate the two that will damage them. Marriage is about 2 people, but when children are involved, marriage becomes family and it becomes more critical that all lives are protected as well. We pick who we marry, but our children can’t pick who they will be born to. We choose to have children so they become an addition to our obligations and promises to make it work. When it doesn’t, it involves more than the original two, so for better or worse may not be the best for all who will suffer. The children didn’t promise for better or worse, but they are the ones getting the worse. I think spouses should try to work out any differences they have and keep their marital promises. If they can’t keep their problems from affecting their children, then it may be the best to separate.
Thinking about how much better it will be when it is all over and the future without the current spouse is truly sad. Planning dates already is borderline shameful. What love and caring there once existed now is replaced with thoughts of starting a new relationship before the official papers are signed. What a shame the world we live in where everyting is disposible, out with the old in with the new. Give it a little time to sink in. Any new relationship might be better than the previous, but let your hormones grasp reality as most new relationships will be pure infatuation and not lasting.
i have read the research by judith wallerstein re: divorce – for personal reasons – my marriage is not a healthy one – we have 3 beautiful children and are trying to handle things the best way possible pertaining to our divorce – i believe her research is helpful in saying that your kids want to see you happy – not unhappily married – they can sense everything. hang in there – as one door closes – another will open – as you know.
I, too, am an ENTJ. Not as completely as I was when I was younger but still fall into that box. I, too, stayed married longer than I should have for the sake of the kids, because of reading The Legacy of Divorce. We separated when I figured out that my kids were going to have a dead mom who committed suicide or divorced parents.
Most of the comments say some form of “I’m sorry.”
I heard that a lot. I wasn’t. The three greatest gifts my husband gave me were my two kids and the divorce.
My husband, my kids and I are all so much happier and better off than we were when he and I were together.
I hope things work out as well for you.
Carol
to carol saha – how long was too long and how old are your kids?
Penelope: very sorry to read your news. I have had the good fortune to sit and chat with you and know that you absolutley are nurturing, committed and caring. While I can only imagine the sadness you are feeling, i can guess that your resilience and reflective attitude will ensure that you grow out of this. So with that: congratulations on making a decision. Decisions after all, are the way we define ourselves and this is a big one …
As for being an ENTJ (aka: alpha female)and what that means in relationships: I am not sure for you, but raising an alpha daughter, I wanted to thank you for raising two young boys who will have a comfort with this kind of a woman. This is a little mark we will leave on the next generation, non? Children who have a comfort and expectation in authenticity and REAL equality in all their relationships as a result ….
Wishing you well!
Hugs to you and all of your family, Sharon.
So sorry to hear of your divorce. We exchanged emails years ago about the trials of taking your children to work and laughing about the “take the children to work” groundswell in companies at the time. I recall we had many similarities in our lives (except I had 5 kids — do you remember?).
Now we share divorce in our roster. Here’s hoping you and I both emerge with our senses of humor (and of course our careers) in tact.
Penelope,
You are a disgrace to all of us who come from normal, happy homes where our parents were married their whole lives and took their vows seriously. Yes, my wife and I have been married for 15 months and at times, we argue like we don’t want to be married, but that is PART OF ANY relationship.
What differentiates us from single people is our LIFE LONG commitment to each other. That is what makes marriage special, and you are now teaching your kids to give up. Shame on you!
I’ve not been on your blog for a while because, ta-da! I’m getting a divorce too. Left my abusive husband in January. Marriage #2.
I never really looked into what being an ENTJ meant in terms of relationships with men. To me, the Myer’s Briggs encapsulates only portions of who I am, so it is defeating to think I’m stuck in that paradigm. But, now I think I might take a look at it.
But I DO understand the “looking forward” reference. Between crying and being resilient, as you state, I found someone else and began another relationship.
I think I will be blogging about divorce today. Thanks for the inspiration (especially to a few of your lug-headed commenters.)
In thinking on the ENTJ-executive link, I wonder if we go into relationships, fix things up, leave the person a better person and move onto something new and of interest to us. Much like top notch executives go into a business, run it for a little while and then move onto other areas. Perhaps the best relationship to get into would be one where we both can’t run the other person’s life, and also can’t take advantage of them. I notice it tends to be two of ENTJ faults.
I feel sorry for those who feel they must sacrifice family and friends for material gain.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42E2fAWM6rA
(Lost Generation – 1m:44s)
Love your blog. Just found it. Meyers-Briggs changed my life…especially I am an ENFP who acted like an ENTJ so that I could manage my projects (people) more efficiently. Unsurprisingly, my real personality works better, which I really discovered when I started working with…autistic kids!
Good luck to you on the road ahead! I will be following you here.
Good Luck, Penelope.
It is amazing that you can be so honest on such a difficult subject. I met you at the ERE conference and love your blog. (Maybe because we are both ENTJ’s) I have been married amost 7 years and have two kids and am also the primary breadwinner. It is a tough situation. Thanks for leting us know we arenot alone.
I’m an ENTJ….
I will be able to divorce in 18 years, 1 month and 2 days. That is when I project my youngest child will graduate high school. I know, a little too late, that I am best independent. I don’t coddle or need to be coddled. My husband is one of those people who wants to talk on the phone 4 times a day and is personally insulted if I don’t say I love you too every time he does.
I think we know before we’re married when it will end up in divorce. I think we just live in denial and think that all those things are not going to matter as much as they do when your juggling kids & a mortgage.
Stay strong…you have a lot of wisdom and you will get through this.
I’m from a place where divorce is not an option. Whether its been through the influence of religion or values instilled in our leaders, divorce has always been shrugged off by our government.
Marriage is no easy thing…especially when you start to have kids and the stress points are bombarding both of you from all directions. Prides collide and feelings of regret and frustration threaten your existence as a couple.
We all have different threshold levels on holding on to troubled marriages. Personally, I believe there no point in holding on to something that’s no longer there.
For countries with divorce as an option, I can’t really say how much of a fight troubled couples put up before calling it quits. Should I be thankful or otherwise that I belong in a place where divorce is not an option?
I am recently in the process of getting a divorce. I am also sad to say, it’s not my first divorece either. I often feel like a failure but until today, I realized I didn’t fail in the marriage, I failed in finding a suitable mate.
Although you may feel like you don’t really have the authority to give advice, maybe your advice is sound but just your own selection of a mate was the problem.
Don’t sell yourself short … in every situation, there is many variables, we can’t always be right in every case but if we quit trying, we will lose in the end.
Evo
I would love to use part of this story in my blog. Of course, I would give you full credit for this and put your website underneath your story. I would like to use word-for-word the story up to the paragraph To Be Honest.
Here’s my blog:
http://www.DoneLickingDivorceWounds.com/blog
Always sad to hear about a new divorce. But take heart. Your divorce is what you make it to be. It can be a positive process, especially for the children, if you make choices in their best interest.
I’ve done it and know you can too by putting your children’s emotional needs first when making any decisions related to them. Contact me if you have any questions.
Very best wishes to you and your family,
Rosalind Sedacca, CCT
Penelope is an ENTJ. A psychiatrist friend of mine says that people get along well when they are different in two categories on the Meyers-Briggs. I am an INTP, and I’ve often thought that an ENTJ would be a good match for myself; she would complement me in being more outgoing and decisive, but we would have the inner nature of intuiting and thinking in common. I findhe J or the P is a big deal in relationships. Two P’s should be together. They are too passive, and certainly two J’s shouldn’t be together. Where’s the balance. I would be willing to bet that Penelope’s husband is a J.
Wow, someone who blogs all the time is getting divorced? Who would of thought! I just thought people who spent time parenting and being there for their spouse got divorced.. My whole world view has changed.
Listen youngsters. There is no “perfect” person for you no matter what the silly personality type is. The grass is not greener on the other side. If you have kids, then you should stick it out. The exception would be physical violence. When you have children, then your life (should) go on the back burner. It is not all about you anymore.
Unfortunately life is not as black and white as you portray it, John. I totally agree that parents must put their children’s best interest first in making all decisions. However, growing up in a family where the parents are not modeling love, respect, harmony and good will toward one another is doing a disservice to your children. Staying together for the sake of the kids is not always the best choice — it scarred my life when my parents stayed together in a miserable marriage — and I’m not alone.
Parents must make conscious decisions with their children’s emotional needs as a primary focus. Then they can create a more positive future for everyone in the family. It’s not divorce per se that scars children — it’s unaware parents who are not taking responsibility for their actions. Let’s work on educating parents about the consequences of all their decisions — without being too simplistic!
I just started my own blog about going thru divorce and my brother sent me this post…and I am also an ENTJ!!! (Funniest part is my first post is all about coincidences so cheers to this one).
Penelope,
I am also an ENTJ who recently remarried, and I got a LOT of help from reading the book “Spiritual Divorce” a few times (I found it in the library.)
It’s the only book of it’s kind that I was able to come across back in 2003, and maybe there are others now, but the exercises were an amazing learning experience.
Spiritual Divorce by Debbie Ford is a great read for anyone who wants to learn from their divorce and come away a better person as a result. There is a gift in every life challenge if we look for it and Debbie understands the value of doing the inner work before moving ahead to forge new relationships.
I highly recommend her book. My own book, How Do I Tell the Kids about the Divorce? A Create-a-
Storybook Guide to Preparing Your Children — with Love! also focuses on personal growth as well as ways to minimize the emotional trauma to our children. Visit http://www.howdoitellthekids.com to learn more.
I am also an ENTJ female who’s divorce was just final today. I am a doctoral student and plan on becoming a professor. Your post really makes me wonder about ENTJ and relationship success. My ex-husband will tell you that the divorce was a surprise for him, but I have been having doubts about the relationship for years (we were married for 5 1/2 years). We don’t have any kids (thank god) and most of our problems stemmed from the fact that he thought I was too outspoken and frank when I should have been more “tactful”. It got to the point were I stopped expressing my opinion around him. I finally got to the point when I couldn’t live that way anymore, and I told him. The rest, as they say, is history.
I just read this article and your previous one about stay at home dads. I also read the ENTJ article and resonate 100%. I felt like “finally! someone understands me!” Though I’m only 22 I’ve been married two years and many of the things you wrote about go through my mind. My husband and I have even talked about the stay at home dad thing for the future. My mom was absolutely, positively opposed to the idea, for the exact reasons you said it was failing in your marriage. My husband and I have had wonderful communication throughout our four years of knowing each other, but it has only been because of the wonderful marriage counseling and pre-marriage counseling we have been through. Have you read The Five Love Languages? Eye opener for me. I appreciate your transparency, and though I am much younger I know a day will come when I am struggling with the very things you’re writing about. I don’t know what the solution is, or how I will handle it in my own personal life. I guess I am just hoping it will work itself out. Thanks for your honesty. I can relate tremendously.
P.S. Sydney Owen got me back into blogging. I go to school with her. She told me you’re her mentor. That’s how I found you’re blog.
Next time get a man with a job and you’ll solve 50% of your problems. And of course, you could move back to New York ;)
Dear Penelope
In True Type style, I won’t comment on the content but more on the communication. (I’m an ENFP and we do that.)
If you were ever confused about your Type, it may be useful to you (AND a comfort to your Shadow/Opposite) to know that you write like an ENTJ, not like an ENTP. Your issues are ISFP issues, not ISFJ issues – you don’t harp on about ISFJ loyalty & devotion – which would tend to suggest ENTJ is your natural preference.
In accordance with Jung’s theory, we are all BORN WITH OUR TYPE, it sometimes eludes us, is all. The MBTI instrument is not perfect, but it’s the best of its kind in the world – and they’re are now more than 600 profiling instruments around.
Cheers
Jane
jane@footprintdirections.com
Good God you have provided me with a rich afternoon of reading. I’m only sorry it took me this long to discover your blog.
And you helped me understand why my husband frequently finds me so offensive…as a fellow ENTJ, you can imagine my dismay when he so often questions my obvious fabulousness. Seriously.
Adore you,
Lisa
After reading your blog, memories came flying back. My marriage almost ended in divorce few years back and it was the hardest time of my life.
Very true, thanks for sharing something so personal – I’m sure comforting for a lot of people going through this.
Mark
Wow, I was googling on marriage and counseling then I found your blog. Very inspiring blog. You are a strong woman. :)
Im always worried about my business life and my marriage mixing to much and allowing that small chance of divorce to get even more complicated and harder than it already is.
So, how you doin’?
This research is what has kept me in my marriage. But now I am learning that marriage is a little like fertility in that I cannot control everything. And I think that one reason that Wired just asked me to write a column on how to start a business is because I have started one and seen it go under. There are sixteen personality types. It is reflected in the total involvement and commitment they bring to each moment of life. There is no doubt you will come through stronger. The athlete can tell you what to do and the obese person can tell you what NOT to do. This courage is a big part of the strength of your voice. NTs and SPs can be a volatile mix. Any loss is painful and for that I am very sorry. All you can do is your best to not add insult to injury. Personality tests do smack of horoscope readings. I read a lot about personality types and astrology when I was majorly depressed. My kids had a hard time at first and are now doing so well it amazes me every day. This is the way they will eventually come to accept it and move on healthily in their own futures. Very best wishes for a happier future as soon as possible. The great thing about Myers Brigg is the self awareness it brings. I think the real hurt comes when parents want to deny the hardships. His message to todays post is clearly an example of the exact kind of BS he is accusing you of.and trust me it rears its head and does make dating and relationships tough when it comes to gender and mentality. i have a friend from high school whose parents waited until she graduated to divorce and it was a major blow as she felt all she had grown up with had been fake. Surely not a recipe for success for either partner. However I do remember thinking that every relationship is different and how hard it is to give specific advice without knowing all the specific details. It would be like going to a doctor and being prescribed aspirin without the doctor asking any questions or doing any tests. It will be painful but with time and introspection you will find the answers and know much more about yourself. Take care of yourself and the kids. I have begun a regiment of ginkgo to aid with mental clarity and acuity. I had a very interesting experience earlier this week in my English class. Apparently my family tree has fewer branches than I would have hoped. You are an inspiring voice who helps thousands of people. And get through this before you even think about dating again. You need to be a whole person first. I was really pulling for you and Nino. Keep putting one foot in front of the other. I said your husband was a saint to well put up with you a long time ago. I know you will take this in the right way too. But I suspect I would take the dating thing slowly and get myself back together. Unless dating is the thing that will help you get yourself together. Took me a while to get it right. Resiliency is what separates victims from survivors. in all your previous posts i had assumed you merely wrote to portray yourself as the villain.Your complete honesty endears you to me as a person I would pick for a real life friend. Mostly it contained my husbands new girlfriend. Good Luck to you on your journey.com using personality type as a freak filter. Nobody ever enters a marriage with the intent to get a divorce. Make sure to take time for yourself during this transition. A healthy relationship keeps us functional. I believe I can improve any relationship if I want to. I tell people my divorce was the worst thing and best thing that ever happened to me. You will be stronger for this experience. Focus on yourself and your kids. Everything else will fall into place. And that type of question just makes the load heavier. Learning what my part is in the failure was really important for me. But conflict is part of human nature and divorce is an expression of that conflict. A good friend also relocated to the Madison area. You acknowledge failure as a part of the learning and growing process. Not to mention appearing on CNN. We should all be such a failure. I always pride myself on being resilient. How would I have known if I had not tried it. But I am sure very soon life will shine again for you. Do not allow him any false pretense whatsoever. I sent my husband links to some of your marriage counseling posts and they struck a cord with him. Maybe you want to show your investors that you can be strong in the face of problems. I am finally getting some personal growth out of the situation. And being free to comment also means being liable to be judged for your comments. I wish you the best of luck and admire your courage for using this experience to try and help others. It is never good news but does lead to growth. Thanks for sharing and good luck with everything for both of you and all parties involved in the divorce. I too am ENTJ and have gone through a divorce. you are more of a pundant for career advice than an actual expert on it. The fact that you have failed at many things is good. They sometimes use that as a template or an idea to do better. I read your blog for comedic reasons. My wish is for your happiness and the ongoing well being of both yourself and your family. I had to go take that darn test to see what I am. I now know that my Mom wanted to kill him at times. I love the homeschooling posts. It reminds me of how crazy I felt at the beginning. Thinking I could ever date a farmer.This is a great post. Lots of great information. href=” http://www.pof.freesinglescrowd.com
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I get a lot of divorce blog in Google Alerts every day (I am a lawyer and try to keep up with what’s going on) but I don’t get such genuine, well written blogs as this one. I deal with the personal side of divorce every day, but it takes real guts to put it out there like you did. Thanks.
Virginia Divorce Lawyer
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So amazing! I’ve been wondering WHY you sound so much like me. And now I see, we are both ENTJ’s. And I’ve not met another ENTJ woman. Very excited to read a lot more of your posts.