My own marriage and the myth of the stay-at-home dad
For those of you who don’t know what’s going on in my marriage, please read My First Day of Marriage Counseling, and maybe you will want to leave a comment about how if you were my husband, you’d divorce me for blogging about my marriage.
My husband, in fact, has brought up divorce for other reasons. I am not totally sure which ones, to be honest, but I think it is career related since I have a great career and his sort of stalled when he became a stay-at-home dad and then went to hell from there.
I know that there are a lot of stay-at-home dads. But while it may seem like there are a lot who are happy, I think it’s really just that every single one of the happy ones is blogging.
There are a lot of stay-at-home dads in my neighborhood. After all, I live in a town where you can buy a house for under $200,000, so living on one income is not that hard here. That’s part of the reason we moved to Madison.
So my friend who writes for a very huge and widely read publication needed some stay-at-home dads to interview. And I said, “I know a bunch. I’ll give you names.” But you know what? None of them would talk. And of course my husband would not talk, because stay-at-home parenting has been a disaster for us. And if you ask all the high-level women who have men at home with their kids, (there are tons) their husbands are not talking.
So I’m going to tell you the truth about stay-at-home dads: The happy ones are working part-time at something they love. This is not surprising because the majority of women with kids would rather work part-time than either stay-at home full-time or work full-time. Which explains why we’re done with the stay-at-home dad routine.
Not that I really know what my husband is doing, though, because we are barely talking. We are doing what I imagine lots of couples do when things fall apart: Acting totally normal at events where normal families show up as families, and then pretending we don’t know each other at home.
And I do feel a little like I don’t know him. Last night I accepted a LinkedIn invitation from a friend. I went immediately to see our common connections – my favorite thing to on LinkedIn — and, there was my husband.
I wasn’t shocked that she knew him. I was shocked by what he wrote for his profession. Stay-at-home dad, former online game producer.
Surely writing stay-at-home dad on a LinkedIn profile cannot be good. But that’s what he is, so what else is he going to write? I went to LinkedIn to investigate the stay-at-home situation. When I searched the string “stay at home”, I got 471 results. It makes sense, I guess, because the biggest problem people have when they leave work to take care of a kid is that they lose their contacts. So LinkedIn would be an obvious thing to do to make going back to work easier.
The list was mostly moms. The first guy I saw was not only a stay-at-home dad, but in his special skills section he lists “baby stuff”.
As the career expert in my household, I always think I’m ten steps ahead of my husband. But I didn’t know that somewhere in the back of his mind, while we’re at soccer games and swimming lessons, he has been wrestling with the question of what to write on LinkedIn, which is really the question of how to present himself professionally when he’s abandoned his profession. I feel very lucky that I’m the one who kept up a career.
So we are interviewing babysitters because my husband needs time to think, and you can’t think about the state of your life and what to do about it when you are taking care of kids.
While I was conducting an interview, my husband was scurrying around getting camp lunches ready for the next day. This is an endearing thing about my husband – he is the king of details, and I am terrible with them. Every time there is something wrong in the lunchbox, my son comes home and asks if I could please not pack his lunch anymore.
So my husband was running around the house and he bumped into me. A normal thing to do would be to say I’m sorry. But we are not talking to each other. And the babysitter saw that an opportunity to be normal was somehow missed.
I needed to say something to explain the weirdness, because good babysitters do not work in homes of messed up families. I thought a little story might make things feel like I have some control. So I said, “Um. My husband and I are, uh. Well. We are…”
And the babysitter said, “Oh, don’t worry. I know. I read your blog.”
lol Brazen Careerist,
so not all is perfect in paradise.
I guess some stay at home-dads resent the wife being the bread winner, and others resent the wife throwing it in their face.
But as you say, if finance is not an issue for your partnership – and there is no pressure for hubby to become a high earner career person, then it is the ideal opportunity for him to get into whatever he likes best: building (or restoring) a boat yeah you know like grown airfix modelling, starting an allotment (vegetable patch), or hey volunteering or doing whatever social activity for low pay (or expenses), but where you get to choose the hours you do – and can still go to the kids games and prepare ‘perfect’ lunchboxes.
But Penelope, what am I doing trying to save your marriage. If there is only silent disregard for each other, and it is beyond repair – you can always call on me, if you are needing something more.
This is the hardest thing in the world to do but I am suggesting it anyway—
Try To Take The Long View.
The stuff that seems so important, so overwhelming, right now will in 20 years seem laughably minor. The commentors are right, in the U.S. we do put way too much emphasis on work and money. People who devote their time to raising the next generation, which is incredibly important work, ARE looked down upon. And it stings.
But in 20 years–guess what, you’re not going to care what people think! (This is provided you evolve, which you and your husband will, because you are thinking people.) So what I’m saying is try not to let that be a factor in what you do today. It’s hard. But taking that Long View is tremendously helpful.
Here are some things to think about:
The only way to have a real discussion about the negative factors of stay-at-home parenting is to show what it does to a marriage.
The only way to have a real discussion about the intersection of life and work is to be real about marriage, which is what sits at that intersection.
I am the only one talking about this because people are so quick to judge anothers’ marriage.
Penelope
There’s alot of good advice here. Lotta hatin too. A marriage is work, man. Life is hard, and often times lonely. And a marriage is supposed to be commitment to always have each others back, no matter what. Thick and Thin. No man is an Island.
Aaron commented “my wife wasn't my problem – that is, either the cause of my unhappiness nor she a problem for me to fix.”, and that’s where GOOD counseling can take you. Will I be happy: a) if I leave; b) if I just accept that she is a tyrant sometimes and move forward. I know which one I chose, and I’d do it again!
When did being a stay-at-home person become a bad thing? Bringing up children is wonderful and takes alot of dedication and hard work on its own. It’s not something you need to be ashamed of or hide.
“I am the only one talking about this because people are so quick to judge anothers' marriage.”
I have scanned the comments, and I don't get the impression that your marriage is being judged. What I see are expressions of support together with admonitions that talk about marital problems is inappropriate for a public forum. Others are concluding that you're trying to boost traffic by appealing to the rubberneckers out there. I don't believe that's the case, but I doubt that your opening up like this will help you resolve your personal issues. I think that those matters are between the two of you.
"As the career expert in my household, I always think I'm ten steps ahead of my husband."
I agree that you have interesting insights about careers. That's why I read. All the more reason why you should be able to help him with his work/life issues. You're the Brazen Careerist for god's sake! Help him out! No matter what happens, he's the father of your child. Helping your husband will help your child.
I think Penelope is brave and is performing a valuable service in sharing her thoughts on her marital situation. After all, this post is about the work-life continuum, and many of us are still trying to figure that out.
To me, Penelope’s posts serve as cautionary tales to those of us in relationships: Here’s what’s wrong. Here’s how we got there. Here’s where I think we’re going (and it’s not good).
Thank you, Penelope, for your transparency. Keep up the good work, and please ignore the cynics, naysayers, and occasional chauvinists.
I love the chances you take. Your honesty is refreshing. I am suspicious of people who pretend to always have it all and all together.
I’ve blogged about my 2 cents worth here.
http://clare-panton.blogspot.com/2007/07/parenting-skills.html
Whew! The deja vu flashes were coming hot and heavy…
On paper all this “reverse the roles” stuff sounded really good back in the early 80’s when my kids were still small and my husband’s career started to hiccup. I had been freelancing as an EFL teacher to bring in some extra money, but as I watched the careers of my corporate student take flight, I was also champing at the bit to get into something meatier. In other words, I was only too happy to be able to jump in to support the family (he had also partially supported me through university…) and even happier to see my opportunities and earning power begin to soar into heights we hadn’t actually expected.
We also hadn’t expected what a black hole the whole stay-at-home dad phenomenon would actually become.
Oh, we had our good moments! There were quite a few couples in our circle of friends who considered us brave and progressive. It was also a bit of a hoot to hear our son’s teacher tell us how our son totally broke through the parameters of a simple class assignment when he loudly (and proudly) proclaimed that he didn’t have to think about what he wanted to be when he grew up, because MEN DON’T WORK.
Other moms in our town – a blue-collar and artisan-heavy suburb of a glitzier German city – either pitied or (over-)praised him, though. He was extremely frustrated when moms at the playground were excited and astounded he could perform simple tasks they knew they themselves could pretty much walk through in their sleep.
The other men were probably the worse. I’m sure I don’t know even the tip of the iceberg of slights and backhanded comments he had to endure from X the builder and Y the construction company owner just to be able to still experience “going out with the boys” at least every once and awhile.
His attempts to launch and maintain his own freelance career in personnel development didn’t take root, which partially had to do with our location. I believe it also had to do with the amount of self-confidence he had lost over the years, though, as well as feeling unable to catch up to me career-wise.
And the comfort zone I’d created also shouldn’t be underestimated.
Long story short – He is now my ex. When I look at his life then and what it’s become, would I do it all over again? *shrug*
Maybe with a different man.
Or in a parallel universe.
What any other scenario would have meant for my own career, or my attempts to somehow balance that career with my roles as wife and mother is still a bit too scary for me to think about in detail.
I’ve read the story ‘My First Day of Marriage Counseling’ as well. Somebody’s marriage is quite a dark place to judge on it successfully unless being one of the spouses.
All I can see is that your husband must be really tired of marriage, looking after two children. It’s genetically an integral part of women’s nature to bear and breed them. Children are often closer to mothers too. You can hire a baby sitter, but what your husband said to the Doctor-Lawyer, is that he had given up his career. He thinks he has lost his chance, blames you and envious to your success.
Though, even you don’t know exactly, what’s the reason. If you feel that you shouldn’t live together to grow and breed children together, than what’s else a family for?
Both my husband and I have been “stay at home” at different times in our marriage. We nearly ended up divorced, until we learned some incredibly helpful habits…
The key to success:
Time – 15 hours a week together, no kids.
Conversation – part of the “time” component is spent both speaking and LISTENING to each other about our daily lives apart.
Recreation – a good marriage requires play time together.
Honest and openness – learn the difference between privacy and secrecy. Secrecy destroys marriages.
Respect – feeling superior to your spouse is a fast track to marriage-busting behavior
Aaron, I wasn’t going down the “if it weren’t for him you would be nowhere path” I was going down the – show a fellow human being a bit of respect path.
And the word abuse didn’t come from me, it came from him, in her last post.
Has your husband thought about re-entering the workforce as a games programmer?
I first found your blog because of your post “I’m Moving Out of New York City”, and “How to Choose a Place To Live” (paraphrasing those titles, sorry). I wrote to you that we had moved from a more expensive place, to a bigger city where we could get a better house, and perhaps better opportunities. I also mentioned that after 3 or 4 years we were throwing in the towel, and moving back to our overpriced but comfortable location. All of that is relevant to what I just read on your post.
Our marriage, during this time of relocation, nearly died completely. He was working more, and I became a SAHM because re-establishing my biz was almost a joke here. I had no friends, no contacts, no place to go, and the weather made it worse. Lack of a real social network will destroy any marriage. Trust me. I’ve read some amazing work about how marriages crumble when the balance of power is off. And that almost always happens when a couple changes their dynamic drastically, as you and I have done in ours. Couples meet, they marry, and create a family based upon a certain power structure.. or equality. When a move or a job change or layoff suddenly puts one person in a position of weakness (home all day without adult interaction), the balance is off and the marriage suffers. It’s okay if a couple starts out that way, but it’s the change in balance during the relationship that can cause all the problems.
We’re still working on the re-relocation, securing a job for him there, putting the house on the market, etc. It will take a long time to repair the damage to the relationship from this move, if that’s even possible.
I wish for you whatever outcome you’d like from all of this turmoil and relationship introspection. Perhaps the issue of the relocation should be examined in your situation.
I would have divorced you a long time ago as you are the most self-conceited person I’ve ever seen. I read your column as I’m still trying to figure out if you are for real or if this is all a big joke.
Ten years ago I became a stay-at-home-dad because my wife was offered a wonderful promotion (she had planned and desired to stay home). I did this for two years.
It was a great experience, but also the hardest job I have ever had.
Before I took on the role for parent and primary home-maker, cook, etc…. we created a “stay at home parent job description” to be sure that neither my wife nor myself mis-understood what the job involved.
This is what most couples fail to understand….this is a job…every bit as hard, demanding and important as the person who works for a large corporation. But the downside is that you never get to be away from the job. No days off, not time away…and if you feel overwhelmed you cannot just sneak out for 30 minutes and run to Starbucks.
I could write a whole book on this topic, and none of your readers probably care about a longer post….but if your husband needs someone to talk to who really understands….have him email me. I can give him prospective, as I have been back in the work world for 8 years, and my wife has been a stay-at-home-mom for 7 years.
thom
I was pointed to this post from another blog because I almost couldn’t believe what I read there. And, well, um, I hope this is a joke and any money you make here is split 20-80 in favor of your husband after the divorce because this is abusive, pure and simple.
I’ve got no experience in this realm – no stories to relate, no advice to offer. I just wanted to send my wishes for the best of all possible outcomes for you, your husband, and your son – whatever that outcome might be.
I’m afraid I have to remove your blog from my feeds. I don’t have a problem with your expressing your feelings on these topics, but I think this blog which purports to be all about career advice isn’t the best place to do so. A separate personal blog might be in order. Best of luck to you and your marriage.
“No matter what happens, he's the father of your child. Helping your husband will help your child.”
This is the bottom line in these things. How does a man (or woman) love their child? By loving (and caring for) the child’s other parent.
Sometimes it’s the hardest thing in the world to do. It can also be the easiest.
“Children are one third of our population and all of our future.” ~Select Panel for the Promotion of Child Health, 1981
Maybe your husband should start a blog called stay-at-home-dad so we can get both sides that way the comunication channels are open and free.
Plus it would be a rating winner plus it might actual help your relationship especially with communication.
For some people are not good at expressing their feelings.
That will be 10 dollars please.
damm Iam good
Wow, how wonderful to see such honesty.
Although we have no kids, our marriage has been suffering because my husband is currently unemployed – I can’t imagine myself feeling as bad as he does, because even unemployed, I would manage to have something to do (um, blogging more than likely), but he’s distraught over it. We’re finally moving, which will solve the problem, but I really just don’t think men are cut out for staying at home. Ever.
Penelope, I just wanted to point out that I think some of your readers are being very sexist in criticizing you about the way you write about your husband. I used to listen to Howard Stern a while back when he was still married and he would discuss his marriage problems and his sex life in more detail than you describe yours, and nobody ever called in and accused him of being abusive. Well of course, his whole thing is that he’s honest to a fault no matter how abusive he sounds. But my point is that his wife was supposed to just take it because that was his career and she knew it when she married him. But in this case since it’s your husband, he’s being “abused” and “emasculated” I think just because he’s a man and you’re a woman and you’re supposed to take the passive, accepting role in the marriage. It is pissing me off.
Howard Stern and his wife discussed being public prior to being married and, no surprise, they aren’t now.
Public embarrassment is a form of abuse, regardless of gender. Look it up. Encouraging two people two to share their problems for public comment is fraught with peril. No good will come of it. At best it will only serve to feed egos, damage reputation, and might make the couple act on the advice of a stranger who cannot possibly understand because they do not have the benefit of being there to see anything but the perception of two people; at worst, it may encourage others to project what they read here into their own relationships and cause problems where they do not belong.
Good luck to you both; you will need it on this path. Best, Rich
Penelope,
I believe you’ve mentioned in a previous post that you’re of the Jewish faith. Having said this, your moral compass, if you will, ought to be the faith which you profess. I’m not an expert on the Torah, but I believe their are some guidelines within in it which ought to govern the marriage relationship, as it applies to you as a wife within the marriage. It is my prayer that you and your husband work this out. Marriage is the greatest challenge any couple will undertake. I speak from my own experience in my one marriage. So, since I’m addressing you (as I don’t know your husband) suck it up and fix it! I’m sure you never quit on the court or the beach, so why now in the most important “match” of your life? Fight for your marriage PERIOD.
Penelope,
Dear you know I love your work and I wish you the best with this sticky new situation. My advice…since you are doing well, hire the babysitter (nanny) and let Dad go back to work. We men need to feel we are contributors. Bottom line, regardless of how the new society might want to see it – we still need to be out there hunting and bringing the kill back to the house.
Secondly, don’t let your blog become diluted, please stay focused on the stuff that is helping so many of us become recognized like yourself. Peace be with you both, I’m pulling for you and your husband to work it out. Remember your team play on the court.
Blake
Penelope,
I hope you have the best possible outcomes for your marriage, family and career. I send you thoughts of support!
Heather
Penny,
Thanks, but please take care.
I agree that your post is very open and honest. I admire you for that. I’m a stay-at-home Dad with a blog and a career on hold and I’ve never been completely honest about how I came to be a stay-at-home Dad. On the surface, my family and I are very happy. And, right now, we’re happy below the surface too. But it hasn’t always been that way. Don’t assume that all stay-at-home Dads who blog are happy; you only know what we want you to know. Marriage is always ups and downs. It’s how we handle the downs that defines the marriage.
My husband was a stay-at-home dad for a little while but not by choice. People have provided great advice so it is up to you and your hubby to turn your situation around.
I am also an author, like you. My new book is called Mama Peavy says, “Women, It’s OK to Marry an Ugly Man.” I am Mary R. Butler.
The fact that your husband listed his former career on the career line says a lot to me. For him, I suspect, it’s not about climbing the corporate ladder, jockeying for a big raise, or acquiring an impressive title on his business card. Creative people are driven by other standards… like the look on a users face when he/she tests your game and screams “oh, how cool!” or the feeling of accomplishment you get when you figure out a fix to a bug that’s been baffling your team for weeks.
Perhaps (together) you can redefine the measures of success for his career. I hope he finds an outlet for his creativity. And I wish you both the best.
Regards,
Stephanie
Wow Miss P, I am so sorry.
I hope your family makes it, and I hope your marriage makes it.
I hope it doesn’t come to divorce, been there, not fun.
What a bunch of drivel, you clearly have serious problems in your marriage and your character assassination of stay at home fathers does little to cover it up. I hope you have no more kids.
Bob (my husband) calls me Misery. It's one of the more endearing endearments he tosses my way on occasion and I think he takes it from the 1990 Stephen King movie starring James Caan and Kathy Bates.
Words used to describe that tale of terror are as follows:
dark
witty
brisk
taut
cynical
torturous
drama
thriller
horror
suspenseful
tightly tensioned
dread
scary
wild
bizarre
All that being said, Misery has been compared to Hitchcock's achievements in “Psycho” in that it entertains without seeming exploitative. I believe THAT is what Penelope is attempting to achieve in her gran mal description of what's going on in her marriage today – she is attempting to inform rather than entertain (but hey, the "entertainment" value is definitely there, let's not ignore the guerilla in the room – if it's too much for you to read, guys, just look away; you can do that, can’t you?) and in so doing she is being accused of exploitation.
Phooey with that! Her reporting of the basic situation she is faced with is what makes the retelling so serious and so compelling – by comparing the sometimes nightmarish, desperate scenario she finds herself in against our own "sometimes nightmarish, desperate scenarios" – well, I hope you get the picture. We all benefit from her disclosures – even her husband, though he may not yet see it, immersed in the situation as he probably is. Penelope brings us humor, not at his expense but at her own. It's this ability to laugh that helps us survive our ordeals and Penelope has the sense God gave a mule to laugh at herself. Like I do, when Bob calls me "Misery".
;)
Maureen Sharib
Telephone Names Sourcer
Hello Penelope,
There are some very good comments on here, but also some very aggresive/angry comments on here. This is your blog and you can write whatever it is that you feel appropriate. If people don’t want to read they can stop. The title pretty much gives the reader a clue as to what they are about to read, if they choose to move forward so be it. Good luck to you and your husband…and let me say this; Madison is a lot more than a “silly little college town.” You picked a great state to move to and I hope you are enjoying it.
Hey Penelope,
I think it is a good first step for your husband to be looking for a job, even if it is part time. Having a “baby sitter” will help, but maybe your are talking about more of a nanny type than baby sitter? When I read “baby sitter” I think more of a short term, perhaps revolving door of who can sit today versus tomorrow arrangement. Maybe it’s too early to make more permanent arrangements, but it will be coming soon if he finds a job soon.
About not talking with each other at home: I think many couples are like this. You reach a point where neither side is ready to give in to the other and you think one more argument may send it over the edge. It’s almost like a dare to the other person to be the first to speak again. It’s a lot about power and of fear. Seeking the upper hand versus being too vulnerable. Silence is never a good solution. It usually produces more anger or worse, apathy. When it comes down to it, we are all selfish in one way or another and it is difficult to see another’s point of view without interjecting our own views.
I hope that you two can find a way to get past this time of turmoil in your marriage. Each person has the right to not like what is going on in his/her own life and that includes how those around affect one another. We decide if we will tolerate those things we don’t like and what we will do about it. If your marriage fails, try not to look at the faults of the other or to blame yourself. We each have our own free will to decide to stay or go. No one makes the decision for us to leave or stay. It’s whether or not we can accept or tolerate differences in the other. If your husband doesn’t like the way certain things are in your marriage it is his decision whether those problems are unacceptable to stay together. It is his and your decision whether one or the other can/will change to accomodate the other. Marriage is a lot of give-and-take, a lot of compromise.
We don’t know how your husband truly feels as he does not blog in this forum and perhaps he wishes not. I would venture a guess he is burned out on being a stay-at-home dad and needs something of substance outside of the home to attach his life to. Getting a job is vital to him, I believe not only for his own self-worth and sanity, but also for his future should the two of you wind up divorced.
Don’t stop talking/communicating with one another. No matter how painful, no talking only makes things worse. Try to keep personal jabs out and try to speak about how you feel, not what you think the other person feels. When my wife and I have argued, it often very quickly come apparent that one or both of us have a misconception of what has been bothering the other and what we think the other is thinking. Keep talking and get to a point of decision. Be compassionate and respectful that the other person has their own view which may not be the same as yours. Decide for yourself if you will change because you cannot make the other change unless they are willing. Many times if you require the other person to change, they will: from a married person to an unmarrried person. Unless what you are doing is illegal or immoral, the other person has no right to demand you to change. But if both are unwilling to change some things for the good of the other, then the question arises if you truly have a marriage/partnership or just a legal arrangement.
Just because you can do something doesn’t mean you should do something.
You can use your blog to vent about your marriage problems if you want to. That’s your right. Nobody can stop you.
But then you own the consequences.
And that’s true even if your husband didn’t mind you writing about your sex life 15 years ago.
If you are as interested in making this work as you seem to be, then love the person your husband is, rather than who he was or who you wish he were.
Part of that will be getting to know who he is. And who he is might be someone who doesn’t relish his shortcomings discussed on the internet.
I can’t tell you not to post about your personal life. I can tell you what I suspect the consequence of that will be — your husband will be reluctant to share things with you and move closer to divorce.
You can consider this “judgement” and rebel against it, or consider it additional data that can help you make a more informed choice.
It appears you’re inclined to do the former; I believe the adult decision is the latter.
Well, it appears Ms. Trunk deleted my comment that was between maureen and matt’s comments above. perhaps because I used a swear word? I forget some people are as offended by cursing as I am by corporate buzzspeech.
Here it is again, without the f-bomb, to see if it was that word, or the message that bothered her:
“I don't think it's brave, or commendable, or interesting, and certainly not original to be airing your marital dirty laundry on a blog. I am not here to comment on your specific situation, I have no desire to elaborate on how clear it is you have very little respect for the man you married.
I am commenting because you wrote this:
"I know that there are a lot of stay-at-home dads. But while it may seem like there are a lot who are happy, I think it's really just that every single one of the happy ones is blogging."
It's unfortunate that you have decided to project the unfortunate issues with your own marriage on such a wide swath of men who have decided for whatever reason to take a non-traditional path, basing your conclusion on the oh-so-scientific poll of looking around at your neighbors in a silly little college town.
Maybe the reason your stay-at-home dad acquaintances didn't want to talk to your hotshot friend is that most journalists set out to write features based on [deleted] baseless conclusions that they have already made, such as "almost all stay-at-home dads are unhappy."*
*Except for those, like me, who happen to write about the experience on the internet.”
I’ll add one more bullet point:
* Mentions that he “delegated” finding a therapist to her because he is too busy blogging.
i’ve been a stay-at-home-dad for seven years now and i’m am very happy in doing that. but last year things took a turn for the worse and we ended up in counseling. the bottomline was basic: my wife thought being the at home person was not enough, that as a man i needed to do more to contribute to the family. so it was the gender reversal that got us thinking: what if i WAS the breadwinner and i cam home and said that to my wife. how would she react? sometime you just have to wear the other shoe. so we made it past that rough spot and now she give me credit for raising two boys and i give her credit for shouldering the financial burden. oh, and being in a punk rock band sure helps me get my stress out!
One more note for those who think it’s just those mean men who might think there might be some room for improvement in Penelope’s approach to her marriage.
Imagine a career man married to a SAHM, who described his marriage similar to how Penelope had described hers, including:
* Divulging details about mediation sessions without making it clear that he had his wife’s permission to do so.
* Having no idea that his wife wanted a divorce.
* Not knowing the reasons why his wife wanted said divorce.
* Dropping another mention of how great his career is going, and that he mentioned this to the mediator.
* Refer to how her career “sort of stalled.”
* Mention how much better she is at details than he is, and that she’s good at making lunch boxes, whereas the kid rejects hers.
OK – I'll tell you how this one would play out – the husband would be accused of passive aggressively screwing up the lunches on purpose so that it would be his wife's responsibility, like everyhing else –
* Refers to himself as the "career expert in the household" and how he thinks this makes him "ten steps ahead" of his wife.
– –
I can think of a few words women would use to describe such a husband, and "brave" and "honest" aren't among them.
Greg B. is a good example of what appears to be the stereotypical response to a man wanting to stay home with the kids: he is a man and needs to contribute more to the bottom line. This is the type of attitude that all men must face in this day: a no-win situation. Our country values finances as the measure of a person; for men more so than women. Men are supposed to be the breadwinners or at least bring home an equal share of the budget. Many women attain their status through their husband’s financial position. I have heard many women talk about SAHD’s and most are not supportive. Most describe the man as lazy, deadbeat, no ambition, etc. Women don’t get those tags when they choose to stay at home; at least not anywhere near the frequency as men. We still live in a time where men are expected to bring home the main support of the family and women in those families can choose more often to work or not. Much of the time it makes sense for the man to be the one who works because men generally make more money than women. That’s not fair, but it’s the way things have been and still are today. With salaries becoming more equal, much of that shift seems to be for a choice to be made as to who will stay at home. At this time, equal pay or even more pay for the wife is not the issue. It unfortunately is the society’s gender roles that determine which route to take. Men staying at home are the pioneers at this time. Some will survive, but I believe many more will fail. For those men who have chosen that role and have the full support of their wife, it will still be difficult. Unfortunately our society is not ready for SAHD’s, at least not in the way they are valued. Can they do as good of a job as a woman at home? I believe yes. Will they be valued as well as women in that role by our society? I believe no. Is that fair? No, but that’s where we are right now. Unfortunately, I don’t see that changing anytime soon.
Certainly I wish you luck with your marriage and I hope things go the best possible way for you.
I’d love to discuss the SAHD issue with you at BlogHer. I’ve got one ’round these parts and it’s not making him so happy either.
I admire your honest and candid article talking about your own life and marriage. I had a similar situation. With two small kids running around the house, I barely have time to talk with my husband on topics not related with childcare. sometimes I found I don’t quite know my husband because we talk so little about ourselves, our careers. Basically, we are too busy at home and at work. Then I found out a way to talk to my husband. He likes to chat with friends online through IM. So during the day, I will chat with him through MSN or yahoo messenger for a while to exchange the ideas about work, career goals and all sorts of things in our life. It works pretty well. this open communication channel really helps. although we still lack of time sitting together to talk face to face, but at least I know what is really in his mind. Hope everything gets better for you.
Dear Penelope,
I hope that your marriage will be better with time. Sometimes, time and perhaps “missing each other” (i.e. spending a few months in different locations) help people to remember how much they love eachother and how connected they are.
I am not sure if this info can be of any help, but I recently heard of a statistic that gender roles in Australia has changed completely. Meaning about 80% of couples have reversed, non traditional roles-i.e. men staying at home with kids and women being the breadwinner. Maybe, being in contact with some professionals/researchers etc in Australia might bring different insights or solutions.
I’m eager to learn more about stay-at-home dads because that’s currently my situation:
I’m the career gal, and he will most likely be the stay at home dad. He does have a part time job he loves – massage – but right now just being the stay at home housewife hasn’t been sitting terribly pretty. Despite the fact that for years it wasn’t even blinked at that the woman stayed home and took care of the cleaning, the laundry, dinner, etc…I’m getting a lot of pushback on how “little I do around the house.”
I’m not sure how to handle this because I don’t want to demean his position, but frankly – I kind of consider it his job responsibility at this time to take care of the house – sort of a way to “keep up” with what I bring in. I don’t want to bring it to money or point out that he’s not fulfilling his half…but that’s how I often feel.
We have to sit down and have talks with each other regularly about this – and it gets better and we are still very close and happy in our marriage. I’m concerned how it will be with children, though.
Wish your husband would blog about it…
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I don’t think it works for one person to do all the stuff around the house. It’s too hard. Taking care of a house is harder than going to work. At work people reward you , you have new, interesting things to do, you get money in exchange for showing up, it’s all very structured and kudos-based. At home, it’s less predictable, devalued by society, and has a less structured reward system.
This is why I think that even if one person is at home and one working outside the home, both have to help with the home. This is how we do it. I know, you’re thinking what a joke that I’m giving advice when my marriage is not working. But we’ve been doing lots of experimenting for the last five years, and we’ve tried it both ways, and it does not feel right to me having him do everything at home. Being a team is nicer, even if I’m only doing a little
Finally, you can’t keep score about who does more or less. Marriage is never even.
–Penelope
Lane,
Think about how those words would sound coming out of a man’s mouth:
“I kind of consider it her job responsibility at this time to take care of the house – sort of a way to "keep up" with what I bring in. I don't want to bring it to money or point out that she's not fulfilling her half – but that's how I often feel.”
Especially if part of the wife’s job was caring for an autistic child.
Howdy. I comment on this over at Daddy Dialectic, in “Divorce, Stay-at-Home-Dad Style.”
I’m in a similar situation with marriage going to pot and career being much brighter than husbands. One thing I’ve come to hate–advice from other people that have no idea what your life is. Good luck to you–and I look forward to more posts.