I'm frustrated that I have so much traffic coming to this blog (about 750,000 page views this month) and I have this post about domestic violence at the top spot in my blog. It's the first thing everyone sees about me. I want the post to go away. I want to post about how to write a resume in five easy steps. People love lists.
If it weren't that I've already blogged about sex abuse, my miscarriage and my divorce, I'd worry that my blog will never get past the topic of domestic violence, and I'll face blogger doom. But I know from past experience that being genuine with other people helps one's career get stronger.
Someone wrote in the comments section that there is no domestic violence, there is only violence. But that's not true. Because domestic violence is the violence that's hard to walk away from.
I'm not walking away from the Farmer right now. I want to say that I'll leave if he does it again. I want to say that if he pushes me or shoves me or hits me, that all that stuff counts as abuse. It's hard for me to believe that it counts; I didn't believe my dad was abusing me even when the police were taking me away.
But I have hundreds of you telling me in the comments section and in your emails that this is not right.
And I know that even if I'm messed up, I don't want my sons messed up. If it happens again I think I could hide it from everyone, you, my sons, my brothers–they called me to tell me to leave. I could refuse to tell anyone, and do this whole messed up relationship in private. I know people do that. But I know it would show, on me.
When I was practicing cello with my son a few nights ago, I said, "Don't look at me. Look at your bow."
And he said, "I'm looking to see if you're smiling. You never smile."
I know I am not hiding anything.
So maybe what is left for me is that I can be the expert on not hiding.
I got offers from all over the world for places to stay. Finland, Pakistan, Brazil. It's unbelievable, really, how many people offered up their homes and their guest houses to me and my sons. And about fifty people who I have never met in person told me I can call them if I need someone to talk to. I have very few close friends, so the offers meant a lot to me.
I called one person: Amanda Hite. I have met her a couple of times. She is a straight shooter and a little callous, so I knew that if I started being a crazy, crying nutcase on the phone, she'd handle it. Also, she works for herself, so I thought it might be fine to call her with no notice in the middle of the day.
I told Amanda I can't leave because I don't want to raise the boys alone, and I know I'll never put them through another marriage again if this one doesn't work, and they love the Farmer. They call him dad.
Amanda was adamant that if the Farmer touches me again–in anger–I should leave, with the boys. "Just for 30 days," is what she finally said.
I can do that. I have a friend in New York City. Lisa. She has an extra bedroom in her apartment. She'll let us stay. She doesn't know she's part of the plan. Until now. Amanda says that during those 30 days, enough people will call me and convince me to leave for good. I think that's probably true.
Amanda is a recruiter, but she is a consulting recruiter. She spends her time trying to get people to be honest about why their recruiting sucks so that she can help them fix it. Most people who say they need help with recruiting blame the candidate pool, or the jobs they have, or other, external factors. Amanda helps them to take responsibility and be honest about their problem.
I'm drawn to her because that's my message here on this blog: face your problems with honesty. So I want to tell you that I am terrible at intimacy. I don't think I've ever done it, ever. I'm not even sure what it is. And I don't think I need to tell you that the Farmer has no idea what it is, either.
So we are in twice-a-week therapy. And maybe we will learn something. Maybe we will save ourselves, and the boys and our family. Or maybe we are just in the middle of a cycle of abuse.
It is my hope that this blog will keep me honest, and that the next time, I will leave.
Subscribe -- free!
This blog has turned into pure depression. Not the positive energy that people (I) need. Goodbye.
Posted by One in 750k on September 30, 2011 at 7:37 pm | permalink |
And that's why she didn't write about this before–because she knew that people shy away from difficult or depressing subjects.
Posted by Anonymous on September 30, 2011 at 8:06 pm | permalink |
I think the idea that only positive energy is the only thing people need is kind of toxic to getting things done, for real. In my office I am sure there are people dealing with this kind of thing. Plus, sometimes you need to be critical to create a better product.
Decision-making and working with people is complex and I appreciate the realness, myself.
Posted by Shandra on September 30, 2011 at 8:10 pm | permalink |
It's pretty hard to fix a problem long-term if you aren't honest with yourself, so you've got that going for you. Here's to hoping that therapy helps heal your marriage to the point where violence is a thing of the past…and that smiling is a more frequent occurrence.
Posted by janibowe on September 30, 2011 at 7:42 pm | permalink |
it is always the next time.
Posted by redrock on September 30, 2011 at 7:44 pm | permalink |
For me, your blog has always been about honesty, and I read it because it reminds me to be honest with myself and with others about myself.
Posted by guest on September 30, 2011 at 7:46 pm | permalink |
…and you did not know it differently when you were abused as a child, it was normal to you; only someone looking in from the outside was able to see it. So, it is much the same for your kids: they think this cycle of shouting, forcing, pushing emotionally and physically is normal. Having half a family can indeed be better then having one complete family in a vicious cycle.
Posted by redrock on September 30, 2011 at 7:51 pm | permalink |
Not to be insensitive, but could we get the career advice and lists back? You know we are off topic when most links in the latest post point to other drama-laden posts : (
Posted by Yuse L. on September 30, 2011 at 7:58 pm | permalink |
Yeah. Believe me – deciding when to go this far off topic is not a small decision. After all, I write pretty frequently about how blogs should stay on topic.
In fact, wait. Here is a gift for you. I will give you link to that post so that you can feel like you have an on-topic experience on my blog today:
http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2009/10/06/blogs-without-topics-are-a-waste-of-time/
Penelope
Posted by Anonymous on September 30, 2011 at 8:04 pm | permalink |
I'm glad you decided to do a follow-up post in a relatively short period of time addressing the issues brought up in the previous post. You didn't leave us hanging over the weekend regarding this drama and wondering how you were doing.
Posted by Mark Wiehenstroer on September 30, 2011 at 10:24 pm | permalink |
It's actually quite on topic career-wise for me, as I'm a stay-at-home mom and aspiring writer living on a farm in the middle of nowhere, with an alcoholic husband I've considered leaving (and in doing so would put the writing on hold to be a single mother). The resume and interview and colleague/boss-relationship posts are interesting, but these "personal" posts are more valuable to me. As our home support network is a vital part of anyone's career, I think the posts are perfectly on-topic for most people.
Posted by Guest on September 30, 2011 at 10:26 pm | permalink |
It's my impression that "intimacy" comes in all flavors. Would agree with me, that you have a deep and close relationship with your sons? That it's honest and loving?
Also, I can't imagine your blog being any more intimate. You hold nothing back. Many of us know you now. And love you, in sort of an intimate way.
Irv
Posted by Irving Podolsky on September 30, 2011 at 7:58 pm | permalink |
It's my impression, Penelope, that "intimacy" comes in all flavors. Would you agree with
me, that you have a deep and close relationship with your sons? That
it's honest and loving?
Also, I can't imagine your blog being any
more intimate. You hold nothing back. Or or seems that way. Many of us know you now. Or think we do. And we love
you, in sort of an intimate way.
Irv
Posted by Irving Podolsky on September 30, 2011 at 8:00 pm | permalink |
Whether or not you stay honest with the blog or because of the blog, I hope you do stay honest with yourself, and I hope the therapy helps with that. I also hope you remember that knowing when to quit and when to stay is tricky in the workplace, trickier in marriage – but makes all the difference in one's career & life.
I think Amanda is dead-on with her advice.
For the boys…it is hard. If you think the Farmer is the kind of person you want your kids to have in their lives, there are probably ways to do that even if you guys separate. Without vilifying him though I do want to note that one thing I think is really important in fathering both boys and girls is that the father (or father figure) teaches them what to expect – from themselves, if boys, and from men, if girls. I am sure the Farmer realizes this too, and I hope the therapy helps. (It's true for mothers too, of course.)
Posted by Shandra on September 30, 2011 at 8:02 pm | permalink |
I know that when you respond to someone in crisis you are supposed to give helpful advice and not make it about yourself. In this case I hope what I'm saying comes out clearly anyway.
After growing up in therapy as a great kid, great student, never getting in trouble, always trying to prove, prove, prove to my parents that I was worthy of their love which led to a cycle of semi-abusive to full on abusive relationships it culminated in an almost 4 year cycle of abuse with one man. Next time, next time, I said, as I was being flung off the porch. This is the last time, I said, as all of my belongings were thrown out into the rain and the middle of the street. Next time you grab me, next time I'm locked in the bathroom, next time you throw my birthday gift I bought for myself with my own money "from you" because you are broke at me. The dogs need a yard, I can't afford an apartment on my own, but he can be so sweet, and on and on. I knew I would never have children with him because of the way he treated me and our dogs. I didn't believe it could be different – nice guys in magazine stories were so far away from life as to be meaningless. Oh, and I never told anyone about any of it.
Then one day I realized that I felt nothing. And I started looking for an apartment I could afford. And I moved out "temporarily." And as Amanda said, within 30 days, it didn't even take people calling me, I figured it out on my own. And one day I met a guy and he was nice and we took it slow and two years later I know he would never hit me, never push me, it would never even cross his mind to harm me in any way. And I'm almost tearing up thinking about it because I didn't think life could be like this but it is. You have options and even though I'm not really religious, I'll pray for you just in case it helps.
Posted by Misslaurem on September 30, 2011 at 8:04 pm | permalink |
Your sons love him now. But if they see him hurt you very often, there's a good chance that they eventually won't, and in fact will want to defend you against him.
Either that or they'll lose respect for you for not standing up to him.
I hope that the therapy helps, and that you two are able to create a partnership together.
Posted by Anonymous on September 30, 2011 at 8:05 pm | permalink |
Leave…right now. You belong in NYC. The boys will be fine. They already have a father. In fact I think you should leave them with their father and then come to NYC for a month. This will give you time to think about what to do next.
Posted by Stacy on September 30, 2011 at 8:11 pm | permalink |
Hi Penelope,
I know you can get through this, with the Farmer – if that's what you want. You need to accept your part in the domestic abuse. I wonder if it would hurt your feelings if the Farmer said, "if Penelope says fuck again, I'm going to leave". I know this isn't the equivalent to pushing and shoving, but what you confessed in your previous post does show that you are one of the two people who are guilty of domestic abuse in your household. I would hazard to say that most people are guilty, and this includes me.
Also, I think you need to consider this newer relationship in your life in a separate light from your relationship with your Dad. This is a relationship between two consenting, intelligent adults, so everything is different. I'm glad that you write how you are willing to forgive the unforgivable. I think you will need this attribute again and again, but also – the Farmer may need it with you. This is part of the love equation.
It's sad to see someone who has inspired me so much in my own path have a stumbling block. Please get through this and continue with all of zillions of things you are up to. I love reading your blog, no matter what the content..
Posted by Rachel on September 30, 2011 at 8:14 pm | permalink |
Penelope,
Here's what you don't understand — and apparently no one else understands, either: It's chemistry. Biochemistry.
You and the farmer both don't have enough of one particular [element, molecule, compound, call it waht you want].
That substance is what breaks down adrenaline.
Every time you and he get into even the smallest disagreement, the adrenaline — in both of you — jumps way up. And stays way up.
Too much adrenaline. Got it?
So . . . what is this substance that breaks it down? I'll be more than happy to tell you, if you get in touch with me. You can see the e-mails 'behind' these postings, right?
But. From what I've seen so far, you have exactly no interest whatsoever in chemistry, biochemistry, biological chemistry. Call it what you want. "I only eat power bars" pretty much says it all. You might as well say, "I have no clue and I don't want even one."
I know of a woman who is distraught because her husband has diabetes and Alzheimer's and his bones are getting weaker and weaker. She gives him 3, 4, 5 (I don't know) prescription meds a day. And wrings her hands about what's happening to him. But will she give him even the simplest B-vitamin complex? (AllBee with C is recommended even by Luddite medical professionals.) No. Because she hasn't learned anything about chemistry-biochemistry-etc. and she doesn't plan to.
You and the farmer need help. But the help you need, to start with, is only one single piece of very simple chemistry.
Posted by Amsciint on September 30, 2011 at 8:19 pm | permalink |
I have a lump in my throat. This is a hard situation. I'm wishing you good luck.
Posted by writer on September 30, 2011 at 8:19 pm | permalink |
As always, your commitment to honesty is inspiring
Posted by Just Plain Brian on September 30, 2011 at 8:21 pm | permalink |
As always, your commitment to honesty is inspiring
Posted by Just Plain Brian on September 30, 2011 at 8:21 pm | permalink |
I hope you can see how amazing you are. I am involved with women who fight domestic violence. Most women are not honest about it or open about it. You are unique. You are facing it and talking about it and not hiding from it. I am guessing that there are A LOT of women reading this post eating up every word you are saying about your life. You won't see any comments from them because they are scared. But you give them hope that maybe if you and your sons not only survive this, but are better because of it, then there is hope for them also. Your honesty becomes their honesty. You are writing what they wish they could say.
Posted by Rrm on September 30, 2011 at 8:23 pm | permalink |
I hope you can see how amazing you are. I am involved with women who fight domestic violence. Most women are not honest about it or open about it. You are unique. You are facing it and talking about it and not hiding from it. I am guessing that there are A LOT of women reading this post eating up every word you are saying about your life. You won't see any comments from them because they are scared. But you give them hope that maybe if you and your sons not only survive this, but are better because of it, then there is hope for them also. Your honesty becomes their honesty. You are writing what they wish they could say.
Posted by Rrm on September 30, 2011 at 8:23 pm | permalink |
Of course your sons love the Farmer. They're children and children fall in love easily compared to adults. It's only natural that you don't want to break their hearts by leaving a man that they also love.
Unfortunately, this may be one of those teaching situations so frequently mentioned by old people. Your sons must learn that when someone they love hurts people, especially their family, that they need to end the relationship. Hopefully, your sons will learn to end toxic relationships. Ending toxic relationships stops the cycle of abuse. And, yeah, it's gonna suck but sometimes life sucks.
Posted by Courtney on September 30, 2011 at 8:24 pm | permalink |
Of course your sons love the Farmer. They're children and children fall in love easily compared to adults. It's only natural that you don't want to break their hearts by leaving a man that they also love.
Unfortunately, this may be one of those teaching situations so frequently mentioned by old people. Your sons must learn that when someone they love hurts people, especially their family, that they need to end the relationship. Hopefully, your sons will learn to end toxic relationships. Ending toxic relationships stops the cycle of abuse. And, yeah, it's gonna suck but sometimes life sucks.
Posted by Courtney on September 30, 2011 at 8:24 pm | permalink |
I recently read a book that gave some advice for recognizing and avoiding sociopaths (not that I'm saying anyone involved in this story is one– bear with me) and it gave the RULE OF THREE. Once can be an accident, twice can be a bad mistake, but THREE times is a sign that it's time to get away.
Posted by writer on September 30, 2011 at 8:24 pm | permalink |
I recently read a book that gave some advice for recognizing and avoiding sociopaths (not that I'm saying anyone involved in this story is one– bear with me) and it gave the RULE OF THREE. Once can be an accident, twice can be a bad mistake, but THREE times is a sign that it's time to get away.
Posted by writer on September 30, 2011 at 8:24 pm | permalink |
Needless to say, your last blog was heart breaking…mostly because you constantly say how bad you are at intimacy, yet you seem to crack open the most hardened heat…with your quest for sweetness in family life. That is more intimate on an interpersonal level than most people ever achieve. Maybe you are bad at being out of emotional pain. I wish you freedom from the pain…but one Wife/Mother to another…it is a long road.
Posted by Marg11 on September 30, 2011 at 8:28 pm | permalink |
I hope that we (I) can serve as the mirror you need. It is a heck of a responsibility but, the more honest you are, I'm sure the more true will be the reflection.
That said…
Intimacy is about boundaries. It requires that there are some things that are only for you and the person with whom you are intimate. Do you and the farmer have any boundaries that are for the two of you alone?
What if the therapist says you cannot write about your marital problems on your blog? Would you pick your blog…or the farmer?
Even though the drama gets huge page views, I want you to know that those who really care about you and respect you will stay with you without it…and your numbers will still be huge. You're that good. Believe it.
Amy Parmenter
The ParmFarm
Posted by Amy Parmenter on September 30, 2011 at 8:38 pm | permalink |
I hope that we (I) can serve as the mirror you need. It is a heck of a responsibility but, the more honest you are, I'm sure the more true will be the reflection.
That said…
Intimacy is about boundaries. It requires that there are some things that are only for you and the person with whom you are intimate. Do you and the farmer have any boundaries that are for the two of you alone?
What if the therapist says you cannot write about your marital problems on your blog? Would you pick your blog…or the farmer?
Even though the drama gets huge page views, I want you to know that those who really care about you and respect you will stay with you without it…and your numbers will still be huge. You're that good. Believe it.
Amy Parmenter
The ParmFarm
Posted by Amy Parmenter on September 30, 2011 at 8:38 pm | permalink |
Yes, what Amy said.
Posted by Tzipporah on October 1, 2011 at 12:10 am | permalink |
I agree with Amy. I think it is self sabotaging to Penelope and her marriage by discussing these abuse issues in her blog. The farmer has no way of airing out his side without getting sucked into this public train wreck. Although I think Penelope is a great blogger, I feel that in order for her to work things out, she has to communicate and work out her marriage on an equal footing with her husband.
By airing her issues out like this, her husband will feel like there is no where for him to go without people judging him. Penelope is being judged as well but she chose this for herself by writing about her personal issues in her blog. If they really are living in a small town, this must make it very difficult for her husband.
Look at what happened on "Real Houswives of Beverly Hills," with Taylor and her husband. He committed suicide. It is difficult enough to be going through bad times without someone following you and making things worse by blogging about it or making it into a tv show.
I enjoy reading Penelope's blog and thinks she has good career advice but for the sake of her marriage and self respect, I think she ought to handle it without destroying her husband. The children already have a relationship with him and this could scar the children. It seems easy to vent, and if this were anonymous then so be it. However, it is very clear who she, her husband and her children are. Where they live, etc. There are photos, names of locations.
Is this really fair to her children, her husband, etc..? How is this going to play out later, if she decides to stay in the marriage? What if she leaves her husband but still wants to keep in contact with him because the children love him.
Penelope is a smart and sophisticated lady. I don't think this is a cry for help, or a need for public consensus because she supposedly doesn't have any close friends. I do admire Penelope for her savvy but sometimes being clever is not the same as having wisdom, especially in this situation.
I sympathize with anyone who is going through an abusive situation, however, as a grown, educated, woman…one does have choices in life.
Posted by Areddingfield on October 11, 2011 at 10:46 pm | permalink |
Just because we haven't met you doesn't mean we don't know you! Or wouldn't be beside ourselves if anything happened to you.
Good Luck.
Posted by Tattoo55 on September 30, 2011 at 8:42 pm | permalink |
Just because we haven't met you doesn't mean we don't know you! Or wouldn't be beside ourselves if anything happened to you.
Good Luck.
Posted by Tattoo55 on September 30, 2011 at 8:42 pm | permalink |
I wish you and your sons the best. I agree with your concern about the impact of what you are currently going through might have on your sons. And yes, you most likely can't hide anything from your sons. Just remember that they love you.
I am not so sure that you should leave unless you really feel that you are in physical danger. Would getting a restraining order help? If not, and if you feel you or your sons are in physical or serious emotional danger then take Amanda's advice and get far out of range.
Best to you and your sons. Take care of yourself and them and that desire to take care of yourself and them needs to be what guides you in the near term.
Posted by Jeff Fearn on September 30, 2011 at 8:43 pm | permalink |
I wish you and your sons the best. I agree with your concern about the impact of what you are currently going through might have on your sons. And yes, you most likely can't hide anything from your sons. Just remember that they love you.
I am not so sure that you should leave unless you really feel that you are in physical danger. Would getting a restraining order help? If not, and if you feel you or your sons are in physical or serious emotional danger then take Amanda's advice and get far out of range.
Best to you and your sons. Take care of yourself and them and that desire to take care of yourself and them needs to be what guides you in the near term.
Posted by Jeff Fearn on September 30, 2011 at 8:43 pm | permalink |
Penelope…Tough times, tough decisions. Having a "pause" like a 30 day hiatus can only bring you clarity and peacefulness. Take it! If you decide you want to go back and try to work things out – so be it. If you decide you need more time – take it. If you decide I am done with living in fear and sending the wrong message to your sons about how a man should treat a woman – Bravo…I am not unbiased as a survivor of abuse. I send you lots of healing and loving energy …
Posted by Mtart on September 30, 2011 at 8:43 pm | permalink |
Penelope…Tough times, tough decisions. Having a "pause" like a 30 day hiatus can only bring you clarity and peacefulness. Take it! If you decide you want to go back and try to work things out – so be it. If you decide you need more time – take it. If you decide I am done with living in fear and sending the wrong message to your sons about how a man should treat a woman – Bravo…I am not unbiased as a survivor of abuse. I send you lots of healing and loving energy …
Posted by Mtart on September 30, 2011 at 8:43 pm | permalink |
I feel the same way, about intimacy. There are a few friends that I consider very very good friends, but when we're together it feels as if there's a wall up, like there's a sort of awkwardness to us. And I just went to England for a week, and nearly cried on the last night for the few people in my life who have really been honest to god friends at the different stages in my life but are now 3000 miles away.
About domestic violence, I think it must be far more complex than it seems when you watch "What's Love Got to Do With It" at 12 and your mother tells you if any man ever does that to you, come straight home, and in your naivety think, ha! if any man does that to me he'll be sorry. My friend had a boyfriend who gave her a few good bruises, and when she googled him a rape report was the first thing that came up, but now he's creeping back into her life. And I have a boyfriend that has punched walls, so the danger there is to just think well is it a man thing? But of course it isn't, it can't be, right? No matter how difficult we may be to live with…
Whatever you decide to do, just think of all the people that have or would ask for your autograph in grocery stores and in gym locker rooms, and that respect and love you, not whether you write about resume tips or domestic violence but because you write about them both, and everything else.
Posted by Harriet May on September 30, 2011 at 8:44 pm | permalink |
I feel the same way, about intimacy. There are a few friends that I consider very very good friends, but when we're together it feels as if there's a wall up, like there's a sort of awkwardness to us. And I just went to England for a week, and nearly cried on the last night for the few people in my life who have really been honest to god friends at the different stages in my life but are now 3000 miles away.
About domestic violence, I think it must be far more complex than it seems when you watch "What's Love Got to Do With It" at 12 and your mother tells you if any man ever does that to you, come straight home, and in your naivety think, ha! if any man does that to me he'll be sorry. My friend had a boyfriend who gave her a few good bruises, and when she googled him a rape report was the first thing that came up, but now he's creeping back into her life. And I have a boyfriend that has punched walls, so the danger there is to just think well is it a man thing? But of course it isn't, it can't be, right? No matter how difficult we may be to live with…
Whatever you decide to do, just think of all the people that have or would ask for your autograph in grocery stores and in gym locker rooms, and that respect and love you, not whether you write about resume tips or domestic violence but because you write about them both, and everything else.
Posted by Harriet May on September 30, 2011 at 8:44 pm | permalink |
I think it`s important for us all to explore these topics. It reminds us that Penelope Trunk is not sitting up on some high mountain top dispensing advice on how to handle our lives and careers without living a real life herself. This is as real as it gets, and I appreciate it when people share their difficulties as well as their successes! Otherwise I feel like I am some horrible failure and think that everyone else is doing it better than I am. I appreciate your honesty Penelope. What you are going through is very difficult, and I am glad that you came back and told us what you are going to do/not going to do, whether generally people agree with you or not. There are reasons you are staying, and I hope you both can work this out to your mutual satisfaction. If you feel you must leave, you will know when that time is right. I know that with your whole `high acheiver` complex, you want to explore every avenue to work this out before you decide to make the big leap, if it comes to that at all. Just keep listening to yourself. Your gut will tell you which way to go. I think I understand where your head is at. Just please, please, please, make sure that if you feel that you must go, then do it and don`t let fear of failure hold you back.
Posted by Helen on September 30, 2011 at 8:46 pm | permalink |
I think it`s important for us all to explore these topics. It reminds us that Penelope Trunk is not sitting up on some high mountain top dispensing advice on how to handle our lives and careers without living a real life herself. This is as real as it gets, and I appreciate it when people share their difficulties as well as their successes! Otherwise I feel like I am some horrible failure and think that everyone else is doing it better than I am. I appreciate your honesty Penelope. What you are going through is very difficult, and I am glad that you came back and told us what you are going to do/not going to do, whether generally people agree with you or not. There are reasons you are staying, and I hope you both can work this out to your mutual satisfaction. If you feel you must leave, you will know when that time is right. I know that with your whole `high acheiver` complex, you want to explore every avenue to work this out before you decide to make the big leap, if it comes to that at all. Just keep listening to yourself. Your gut will tell you which way to go. I think I understand where your head is at. Just please, please, please, make sure that if you feel that you must go, then do it and don`t let fear of failure hold you back.
Posted by Helen on September 30, 2011 at 8:46 pm | permalink |
Have you thought about the very real possibility that you could lose your children for subjecting them to the violence in your home? That, in a huge way, is a form of child abuse and many family law courts will step in and remove children from homes where DV is occurring. (as they should)
It happened to me. I thought I was the one taking on the abuse, but in reality, my children suffered just as much, if not more, than me. Not to mention the emotional absence they experienced as I struggled with my own issues and focused primarily on my mate (to keep peace – ha). I was so blind to what I was doing to them. As much as I hated him at the time, I appreciate the effort my ex-husband put into legally intervening and fighting for full custody of our children. Even while the court battle was raging on, I was trying to justify why I kept giving my abuser (live in boyfriend) the benefit of a doubt and stayed. imagine losing custody of your children. Choosing an abusive relationship over your children is a monumental horror to accept when it is all said and done.
LEAVE
Not for yourself (whom you are incapable of taking care of at this time) but for your boys. Violence in relationships is a destructive force that leaves a permanent mark on our psyche.
Let them stay with their father while you work on you – away from the farmer.
Honesty is the understanding that the cycle you are living in will NOT change until your life has changed dramatically.
Good luck
Posted by Michelle on September 30, 2011 at 8:53 pm | permalink |
This is true. When I was a family reunification social worker, I worked with a family where the children were in foster care because the children were exposed to domestic violence. Failure to protect one's children from witnessing child abuse can be grounds for the state to intervene.
Of course lack of contact with mandated reporters (teachers, police, health care providers, child care providers) reduces the likelihood of the matter coming to the attention of the authorities.
Posted by sandbalance on October 1, 2011 at 4:53 am | permalink |
Which is why some avoid putting their kids in day-care, or sending them to school. Not all, of course, but some for sure. I'm guessing you agree with me, by reading into your post.
Posted by Anonymous on October 2, 2011 at 8:05 pm | permalink |
It is very difficult to walk away from something that is good (sometimes) because that is all you have to hold on to, the good. But, the bad, if it get's bad enough, can kill you. It can kill your kids. I was in an abusive relationship. I was miserable, sick and scared 99% of the time but, that 1% when things were good, well, it fooled me into thinking things could work out. I don't honestly know what gave me the strength to finally say enough is enough, but I did. It was so liberating and empowering. Now, I am in a good marriage with a good man who everyone loves. I can hardly remember the times before I knew him. He does not scare me, or bully me, or imprisson me. He lifts me up most of the time. Sometimes he just holds me up. Sometimes he just stands there and waits to catch me when I fall.
You can stop the cycle but, you have to have taken enough and put a stop to it. Whether you walk away or make him leave, or work things out, if you believe in yourself and your own self worth, you will do it.
Posted by Nana on September 30, 2011 at 8:53 pm | permalink |
Pen, If this experience pushes you into therapy, I am delighted for you. Really and truly.
I wanted this for you all along.
Please for the sake of that smart, musical, honest, observant little boy and his brother be TOTALLY honest with your therapist. Do not hide anything. Ever. If you do, you are wasting your time, money, chance and opportunity to finally face up to what happened to you and the consequences to you and your boys.
If anyone, anywhere has thought that what happened to you as a child and adolescent was abuse, tell the therapist. All the details. ALL! If he or she doesn't seem to register it, say it again, as many times as it takes for it to be registered.
I have told you about my abuse. I had to be in therapy for years before I could figure out how to choose people who didn't hit me. I am still working on recognizing people who abuse me emotionally. One of the worst emotional abusers in my life is ME. I cannot leave myself behind, so I am getting retrained. Or trying to be.
You are a smart woman. Me, too.
You are an emotional idiot, or if there is something dumber than than idiot, it, too. I was, too. I am getting somewhat better about my ability to understand and handle my emotions and, therefore, other people's emotions. You have a lot of work to do. It doesn't go fast.
For your boys, you must do the work.
Stay away from your dad. Maybe your mom, too. Discuss contact with them with your therapist.
After my dad died, thank God, I committed myself to therapy. It isn't easy or fun.
At one point, my therapist asked me whether I had noticed that every time, EVERY TIME, I spent any time around my mother, I spent the entire next therapy session talking about suicide. Why, no, I hadn't noticed a thing.
Being sexually abused as a child can render a person blind to their own behavior. In my therapy, I have known many, many other incest survivors. Blindness to self is standard in abuse survivors, not just sexual abuse survivors.
Your honesty may save you and your boys from the consequences of your being abused as a child.
Twice a week therapy sounds excellent to me.
Get in there and do the emotional work, woman. Your boys depend on you.
If talking to me would do anything positive for you, I am here. I will send you my phone number separately. Since you are in therapy, I am happy to talk with you.
Hugs and love abundant blessings,
Courage, my brave one,
Evy
Anyone who wants to tell P. or me that abuse doesn't happen, isn't so bad, etc; shut up, please, Go talk to yourself. I am not going to waste my time and mental energy on you. She shoudn't either. My opinion.
The people who knew my father closely, never doubted me when I began to talk about what he did.
Posted by Evy on September 30, 2011 at 9:00 pm | permalink |
If I ever am in a disagreement with someone who's out of control, I walk away.
The alternatives involve hefty legal bills, expensive lawsuits, or the even more dangerous environment of
prison (and once the police are called
for a domestic violence incident, there's a good chance, particularly for men, of prison). Really really bad things like rape from an HIV carrier can happen to a man in prison.
It's very difficult for many people to forgive or regain trust after an assault or an affair or financial strain.
And it's also very difficult to find a good partner, or to weather the financial and emotional hell of divorce.
So think for a bit (not too long) about what's best, which is not necessarily about who's right or who's in the wrong.
Posted by drunicus on September 30, 2011 at 9:04 pm | permalink |
If I ever am in a disagreement with someone who's out of control, I walk away.
The alternatives involve hefty legal bills, expensive lawsuits, or the even more dangerous environment of
prison (and once the police are called
for a domestic violence incident, there's a good chance, particularly for men, of prison). Really really bad things like rape from an HIV carrier can happen to a man in prison.
It's very difficult for many people to forgive or regain trust after an assault or an affair or financial strain.
And it's also very difficult to find a good partner, or to weather the financial and emotional hell of divorce.
So think for a bit (not too long) about what's best, which is not necessarily about who's right or who's in the wrong.
Posted by drunicus on September 30, 2011 at 9:04 pm | permalink |
So you'd threaten the person you're with, the person you love and are intimate with, with prison rape????
W-T-F???
Posted by TwisterB on September 30, 2011 at 9:59 pm | permalink |
I think the commenter is probably a man who is saying he walks away rather than getting violent because the consequences for violence can extend to prison (and in prison bad things can happen, such as rape).
Posted by Pen on October 1, 2011 at 1:36 am | permalink |
I am so glad you've found a way for you to move forward. For me, moving forward was leaving. I guess that may not be what you or the Farmer need. But you're taking steps in the right direction. I hope that you stick with your plan. And I don't think your boys will be messed up. They've got an incredibly strong mom who loves them like crazy and I'm sure they see and know that. Hugs.
Posted by Lisaajb on September 30, 2011 at 9:14 pm | permalink |
I missed your post about the violence. And a big lump is in my throat now when I hear about it. Domestic Violence is the cruelest assault against women and childen. And those who advised you to leave are correct. It probably won't stop. It will most likely get worse. And if its your boys you are worried about, think about this. They are learning how to be abusive toward women by watching you get abused. Is that what you really want? Leave now. Love your children and show them how they should behave in the world. They will be fine. You will be fine. Otherwise the cycle will continue to turn.
Posted by Sboilesen on September 30, 2011 at 9:14 pm | permalink |
I really think you are right. And I think this is something that will resonate with Penelope. Even if the violence subsides, if the dysfunctional relationship continues, it will have a similar effect on the children. I'm pretty sure that even if this episode of DV isn't because of a continuing cycle, being exposed to it while growing up is a sure-fire way to bury it inside for later years, kind of like a dormant virus waiting for the right conditions to activate.
Posted by Anonymous on October 1, 2011 at 9:37 pm | permalink |
Why did you get involved with someone who can't process his feelings? Why would you invest yourself and your family in that kind of deal?
How can any of this be a surprise?
You must have known that inability to communicate (in BOTH partners) makes a healthy long term relationship very unlikely.
This is a corner you've painted yourself into.
You moved your family in with him. You knew what you were getting in to.
Now you have an army of people who blindly support you even though they've only heard one side of the story.
What does the farmer have?
Doesn't the man who your boys call dad deserve some voice or consideration here?
Are you saying that the farmer has shown some incidents of physical 'abuse' but you've Never shown him any sort of abuse?
Posted by Garrett on September 30, 2011 at 9:17 pm | permalink |
Why are you bashing Penelope and blaming her for this? How long have you been reading her Blog? are you aware she has Asperger's and as a result has difficulty with intimacy? Farmer knew this from the beginner. It was up to BOTH of them to adjust for that. he did not.
Please do not say she is painted in a corner, you make it sound hopeless. It is ALWAYS possible to leave an abusive relationship, and staying in one that is failing to improve is very unhealthy for the boys and for Pen.
Pen, I am not following whether this has turned physical; it is late and I cannot see the screen. If it has, I am telling you it is time to get out. Have you been fully honest with the therapist? Is the therapist fully vetted for this type of marriage problem and if so, how so? IF these are yes answers and you are comfortable there, great. If not, something else must be done.
I am a survivor of an abusive spouse. I volunteer now to help other women in my community. You have my email. Send me a note, I will be happy to message with you further or send you my # to talk.
More later. xoxoxo Diana
Posted by Diana on October 1, 2011 at 3:25 am | permalink |
I just want to say congratulations to both of you for being in twice a week therapy. I think that says something great about both of you–and that matters as much as all the hard/terrible stuff that's been happening too.
Posted by Sarah on September 30, 2011 at 9:19 pm | permalink |
Many women, let me say many strong, independent women get themselves into this situation. I have a son and I was a single Mom for 12 years before I met someone and felt like… "finally, I don't have to be alone, bear all the responsibility alone, have someone to talk to, do things with, feel what it's like to have a real family". I put my rose colored glasses on and dove head first into a mess. My ability to create a wonderful story full of expectations in my head fogged up the truth. The reality was, I paid for most everything, did all the housework, shared my home and time with him and his child. Took care of them and watched as my precious time with my own child went by the wayside. The story is too long to account. But the end of the story is like this. My marriage lasted 4 months, I woke up and saw the mess I made, my fault, my problem. I kicked him out. Paid for the divorce and even though the mistake cost on many levels. I'm free, I'm fine, my son is fine and it's staying that way. I haven't been able to see the benefits of marriage, now and I wish I could. I come from parents that married when they were 19 and stayed together. Why couldn't I have figured out their secret? But I'm sure that's also my problem. So, Penelope, you have to have more money than I have. Your kids will be fine when you are. Pack up and go back to where you were most happy. Find balance by proving to yourself you CAN do it. Believe me, the picture of home schooling kids and living on a farm is one that makes me long to live back when marriages were partnerships, where people had defined roles. My life is not like that. Life is not like that anymore. It's a sad truth, at least they got to experience it a little. Right now show your sons you are a strong and protective mother. Childhoods go by quickly, you don't want to regret more than you have to.
Posted by Michelle on September 30, 2011 at 9:20 pm | permalink |
Predicted it a year ago, including the trip back to New York. I'm surprised that the Farmer just simply hadn't put them out at the bus stop and let P figure out then and there what she wants to do.
Posted by Awiz8 on September 30, 2011 at 9:23 pm | permalink |
This is my first post although I have been following you for a while. I have my own literal Farmer, I run my company from home, helping people online with a young kiddo at my feet and not been immune dark days where otherwise good, loving souls crack & snap.
Maybe this will also help with your plan for going forward…
The Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work: A Practical Guide from the Country's Foremost Relationship Expert by John M. GottmanAs I know you do your research, this book based on decades of research on happily married couples and pretty much calls traditional marriage therapy a crock…and not all marriages are meant to work but even those with worst problems or lack of hope, can and should be saved.
I found to really be different than the usual message and therefore was incredibly helpful and our eventual alternative (and end) to therapy.
Maybe you will find there is still enough to work with to move forward with your Farmer as I did – or not…but I think it will give you some insight & support towards making the best decision for you and your boys.It probably best to just check out the reviews and details on Amazon instead of me going into all of it…but I think it offers something for every married couple – happy or not, no matter the situation…http://www.amazon.com/dp/0609805797/?tag=brazecaree-20
Wishing you the best… V
Posted by Vanessa on September 30, 2011 at 9:26 pm | permalink |
It's always interesting to see readers' negative/rabid reaction when they dont like a post or stream like this one because it doesnt conform to what they want to read on this blog.
I've never been fired and I dont blog; I dont live on a farm or use social media in my work & I'm not looking to change careers. That said, no matter what PT's topic is, I always find myself asking: "What would I do [in this situation]? How would I frame my decision-making process [to address the problem]?" Penelope's words never fail to make me think.
Not because every topic she writes about is relevant to my personal situation, but because I learn – mostly about myself – from reading & contemplating the insights here.
That's the reason I've closely followed this blog for two years & will read PT's musings - irrespective of the content – for as long as she chooses to share ….
Posted by alley on September 30, 2011 at 9:32 pm | permalink |
I came upon this blog just a few weeks ago and somehow managed to miss any and all references to Asperger Syndrome – until your last entry. I am the step-parent of a now young adult man with AS so I think that I know a little more then a little about this topic. I would like to suggest that although the comments that the last two posts have generated are probably heartfelt and sincere, I also think that many of the suggestions just won't work for you.
You write," I am terrible at intimacy" – really? Is this a newsflash for you? Of course you suck at intimacy; you probably can't read facial expressions or body language either. What about empathy or true compassion? The Farmer stepped over the line but since most people really don't understand the impact of AS on a person, no matter how many times you try to explain it, it is understandable that he would lose his mind trying to have a relationship with someone who lacks the capacity to understand what someone else might be thinking or feeling. You suffer from "mind-blindness.
Now as far as the therapist is concerned, if this individual is not only well versed in the complexities of AS but also experienced in dealing with people on the spectrum you can pretty much call it a day and move on to someone else. Trying any type of cognitive therapy with a professional that does not specialize in adults with AS will prove to be an uphill battle. Do yourself and your family a favor and find an expert. I wish you well.
As for my step-son, he is very bright and I hope that someday he will be self sufficient but I also hope that no one ever makes the mistake of thinking that he could possibly love them like they would need to be loved. He couldn't. It is sad but knowing it up front might just keep him from a lot of pain in the future.
Posted by Joanne J-K on September 30, 2011 at 9:37 pm | permalink |
Please find someone who knows AS. Most therapists do not, and how they work with you makes a difference.
Posted by galynn on October 3, 2011 at 2:01 am | permalink |
I came upon this blog just a few weeks ago and somehow managed to miss any and all references to Asperger Syndrome – until your last entry. I am the step-parent of a now young adult man with AS so I think that I know a little more then a little about this topic. I would like to suggest that although the comments that the last two posts have generated are probably heartfelt and sincere, I also think that many of the suggestions just won't work for you.
You write," I am terrible at intimacy" – really? Is this a newsflash for you? Of course you suck at intimacy; you probably can't read facial expressions or body language either. What about empathy or true compassion? The Farmer stepped over the line but since most people really don't understand the impact of AS on a person, no matter how many times you try to explain it, it is understandable that he would lose his mind trying to have a relationship with someone who lacks the capacity to understand what someone else might be thinking or feeling. You suffer from "mind-blindness.
Now as far as the therapist is concerned, if this individual is not only well versed in the complexities of AS but also experienced in dealing with people on the spectrum you can pretty much call it a day and move on to someone else. Trying any type of cognitive therapy with a professional that does not specialize in adults with AS will prove to be an uphill battle. Do yourself and your family a favor and find an expert. I wish you well.
As for my step-son, he is very bright and I hope that someday he will be self sufficient but I also hope that no one ever makes the mistake of thinking that he could possibly love them like they would need to be loved. He couldn't. It is sad but knowing it up front might just keep him from a lot of pain in the future.
Posted by Joanne J-K on September 30, 2011 at 9:37 pm | permalink |
Penelope, I once had a circumstance in which I had to make a decision about my marriage. I decided to throw him out of the house. After all, I was paying most of the rent so why should I be the one to leave? I carefully packed his bags and loaded our Plymouth Grand Voyager. I figured that he could sleep on the futon in his office or in the back of the car. There are perfectly fine showers at the beach pavilion. He could figure it out. After the car was packed, I had lunch with a friend of mine who is a federal judge. I told her my situation. And she gave me some excellent advice:
Don't leave or throw him out unless you are irrevocably finished with the relationship. Before she became a federal judge, she was a judge in family court. She said that she could not count the number of times that a woman stood before her crying and saying, "I never wanted this. I never wanted a divorce. I just wanted him to come to his senses and start treating me right." She asked me, "Do you really want him out of your life forever?" Well, of course the answer was no. I just wanted him to stop what he was doing (it was serious, trust me on this).
So I went home. I unpacked the car. We went to therapy together. I'd like to tell you that it was easy and I'd like to tell you that what he did never happened again…. but I can't. I can tell you, however, that it's been 10 years since I packed that car and our relationship is now probably the best it's ever been in 45 years. Most people think that we are a "perfect couple." (Thank goodness I didn't have a blog back then!)
Only you will be able to decide whether you and the farmer can or even should stay together. But there is no such thing as a "temporary separation." That's a myth. You either stay and work it out or you leave forever. So please stop thinking about this 30-day thing. If you leave, you leave. And if you don't, and can work this through then great. But no one else should ever judge you if you stay despite the fact that he shoves you, or sleeps with someone else, or (much worse) falls in love with someone else, or has a substance abuse problem, or anything else.
Everybody has problems of some kind. Going to a therapist together is the first step. Not being emotionally abusive to him or cornering him is another. Maybe getting him on an anti-depressant might help his anger issues. I don't know. What I do know is that when you are ready to leave, you will leave. But breaking a lamp over your head or telling yourself that you're only leaving for 30 days is not the answer. Hang in there with the therapy. That's the best thing you've got going for you.
Best of luck!
Posted by Kay on September 30, 2011 at 9:38 pm | permalink |
Interesting story, Kay. My sister told her husband that she wanted a divorce because she secretly thought that would get him to quit drinking. Much to her surprise, he moved out and that was that. They are now in divorce court. He called her bluff. I don't think she still can believe that she is actually going to be a divorced woman.
Posted by Anonymous on September 30, 2011 at 10:17 pm | permalink |
I'm glad to hear you've taken positive action relatively quickly after your last post. The only way it's even remotely reasonable to stay with the Farmer is if you both immediately agreed to regular, effective crisis-intervention with counseling.
Even still, you know I've been in an abusive relationship and as much as I know it's possible for people to recover, to have some peace together, I don't think it's very probable. From what you've shared, you and the Farmer have been rocky from the word go and you've both sacrificed so much to be together. While that may sound ennobling, to sacrifice to be with someone, a nourishing relationship isn't like that most of the time. I say that as someone who was with a person who left me constantly depleted and let it be known I could never please them and now I am with someone who continually nourishes me and our lives. He actually likes me and wants me to be happy. The difference is night and day. And I don't think I could have what I have now with the abusive person, no matter how much therapy we went to.
Also, there hasn't just been emotional and physical violations from both of you in this relationship. You've shared stories of financial, legal, family and other dysfunction. These are huge and all entangled. Just listen to people who keep saying the same thing and don't dismiss them because you're afraid to leave another marriage. You've got your boys to look out for and no matter the love they feel for the Farmer, you're the only mother they have, they have their father who lived with them before and loves them dearly and, as far as I know, you're not legally married and can leave with greater ease (at least legally) this time.
Abuse is hard stuff to recover come and I only know how to recover from it as a survivor of it. I imagine it is infinitely harder for the person doing the actual abusing (emotional, physical, sexual). The one thing I know for sure is that you must keep your self at the center of this. That's the only way it gets better. And it does.
Posted by Joselle Palacios on September 30, 2011 at 9:39 pm | permalink |
One foot in front of the other.
Posted by RotterWrites on September 30, 2011 at 9:41 pm | permalink |
Well, if you leave, just leave. Don't get the police, or some over-zealous prosecutor, or some passive-aggressive social worker, involved. If you do that, he will be charged with a felony(assault is usually a felony. It doesn't even have to involve battery). Even if he isn't convicted, he will be stained for life. Why does this matter? He has his own farm right? But he still needs credit, and if he is charged with a felony(and necessarily arrested), he won't be able to get credit. Why, because even if he has his own farm, he is now effectively unemployable. The people who loan money do not care what will happen to you, or what your credit history is. The actuaries (risk assessors/insurance companies) give them their marching orders. And they know that without credit, you cannot run a farm successfully. And so they expect the farmer will be looking for a job. They know this. Unless he can work for his family(whom he is estranged from?) or his farmer friends, he is unemployable. No matter what anyone tells you, the banks will not lend money to people who are unemployable. Heck, they won't even lend money to people who have jobs. They only lend to people who have jobs and will never really need the money. They are a big reason this economy is a few steps away from collapsing.
I know a lot of people will hate to hear this, for good reasons. Prosecutors, police, victims of domestic violence, they'll all scream that he deserves it, that they've seen the end result. But what I'm telling you is the truth. People have had their lives ruined for far less than pushing someone in an argument or slamming a door on a foot.
I'm not making excuses for the farmer. If he doesn't get his shit together, he'll probably screw himself up all by himself, with or without you. But you do not want to be the catalyst for any of this crap.
So here's the thing: you leave, there is pretty much a zero chance of this happening again. If you stay, there is a reasonable(some will say absolute) probability that it will happen again. And even if you leave, many will say there is a large probability that you will come back. Either way, you don't want him economically castrated as a result.
Right now, most of us don't even know his name. I say it's best to leave it at that. If you leave, leave so you can both carry on for the rest of your lives without an albatross hanging from your necks. Same goes if you stay. There is no forgiveness or redemption in society anymore. Unless some "dark matter", cosmic surge wipes out every digital storage unit in the world, simultaneously, that's the way it is, and that's the way it's going to stay.
Just move on. Don't leave any baggage behind.
Posted by Anonymous on September 30, 2011 at 9:43 pm | permalink |
This is some serious idiotic, co-dependent advice. Fucking ridiculous. I especially love the care given to the employability of someone with a felony conviction. Project your guilt elsewhere. No one is getting "economically castrated" here.
Posted by Brin on October 1, 2011 at 3:24 pm | permalink |
Actually, Brin, what I'm saying is eliminate the co-dependency and walk, with no baggage. But I think it is clear that that's not happening at this point.
I understand that many people have a visceral reaction to domestic violence. They are the folks advising P to get out while the getting is good. They are also mostly the victims and victims advocates, probably some police and prosecutors. Honestly, that's the side I come down on, considering the probabilities and the consequences of making a mistake. I'm also not suggesting that anyone has been affected economically yet, unless P loses some readers because of the posting, but I doubt that will happen.
I am suggesting that it doesn't do anyone any good to go down the path that leads to police involvement unless they have to. I'm suggesting they just leave and at least give the abuser a chance at turning his life around. If the police have to become involved, everything I said is true, and that's just the economic consequence.
My comments were really not directed at Penelope, but at the readers who subscribe to the "one size fits all" solution to these problems, which invariably can lead to the situation I described. Sure, there are plenty of situations that need drastic intervention. But there are also cases that don't. It is also very possible to make a manageable situation unmanageable.
And yeah, employability is a big problem in this country, worse for offenders. It's the main reason our prisons are overflowing. And frankly, employability has a lot to do with increases in domestic violence. Ultimately this is a blog about employability, isn't it? Or did you just drop in for the DV discussion?
I'm happy to see that P and the farmer have undertaken the most sensible approach, with the most promise of a successful outcome for the relationship, because right now I gather that, like most people in abusive relationships, neither partner really wants the other out of their lives. If that's not the case, leaving is easier.
You can castigate me all you'd like, I'm okay with that, but I'd like to hear what your solution for Penelope is as well.
Posted by Anonymous on October 1, 2011 at 9:16 pm | permalink |
I want to write that I I know the answer to your problem, because I have gone through so much in my life and come out the other end. I want to do that, but I can't. I have gone through so much in my life, and I have come out the other end, for the most part, healed, but my path is not your path. Nobody can tell you what to do. They can only extrapolate from their own experiences and tell you what worked for them. I can tell you that you might want to try reading a book that helped me called, "You Can Have it All," by Arnold Patent. It saved my life and helped me correct some of my thinking, which was putting me in situations much like you have put yourself (not violent but repetitive abusive behaviors from the past). It's a metaphysical book, but it helped me at a time where I really needed it.
Remember, you will attract someone in your life to help you work out all the crap that was heaped on you as a child. This person does not come in the form of an angel, but usually it's someone who just recreates your past so you can heal from it. You will continue to attract these people (whether they are abusive, alcoholic, or assholes–and, yes, angels, too) until you learn what you need to learn from them. However, if you don't learn your lesson, you will continue to attract the same type of person in your life until you do learn. Of course, what you probably have to learn is that you're a valuable, worthwhile person who doesn't have to put up with abuse.
A great therapist told me a story one time when I wanted to know when I would be healed. She said: Chapter 1: A man goes down the road and falls in a hole. He doesn't know how he got in the hole, it hurts, and he's confused. He pulls himself out of the hole. Chapter 2: A man starts down the road. He sees the hole, again, but he falls in it anyway. He couldn't help himself. He saw the hole, but he fell in anyway. He knows it was there, but there he goes. He pulls himself out. Chapter 3: A man starts down the road. He sees a hole again and manages to walk around the hole, but he still notices the hole and how deep it is and how scary. Final Chapter: He walks down a different road.Therapy is good. If you're brave enough (and you are) to confront what you bring to the table, you'll heal. It may not mean that you'll stay with him, but the most important thing is that you heal yourself, so that you take care of your kids. I knew I had to leave my relationship when my son started treating me like my ex, yelling at me, no, screaming at me at 2 years old. I did not want him to turn out the same. He hasn't and he's 19 now. But he has other problems. It wasn't easy leaving and being a single mother, but it was the best thing I could have done. You just do what you have to do and make things work. They're not perfect, but they're better than staying in an abusive relationship. I'm not good at intimacy either; I've attracted someone who is comfortable with the distance. I love him and respect him, and I think he loves and respects me. Life isn't perfect, but it is easier, happier, and more content than it used to be. I'm not sure my son will be spared the therapist's couch, but I feel like I did the best I could and that's all anyone can ask. I try not to be too hard on myself. His kids will be better off than mine, and theirs will be even better. Healing is generational.
Posted by A Different Road on September 30, 2011 at 9:44 pm | permalink |
I admire your off-the-charts transparency. Often it's explicit, but at other times it's more subtle like here when you just happen to mention having very few close friends.
It's worth reflecting on the fact that you have hundreds of thousands (I'm picturing seven Rose Bowls completely full) blog-based acquaintances and very few close friends.
I believe intimacy results from two thingsâadmitting one's vulnerabilities and humbly asking for help. Taken together, "I'm afraid. I'm anxious. I'm lost. I'm stuck. Can you help me?" I don't know, but maybe you're especially expert on the first part relative to the second due to your glaring acquaintance/close friend disparity.
My hope is the therapy helps everyone and that you're okay. At the same time, my unsolicited suggestion (acquaintances can do that, friends not as much) is for both of you to work harder on forming a few close friendships so that there's less pressure on each of you to meet all of the other's needs.
Posted by RSB on September 30, 2011 at 9:45 pm | permalink |
I'm glad you're in marital therapy, but it's not enough. The Farmer clearly has anger issues that have nothing to do with you. He needs help on how to control/express his anger properly. Get him to therapy on his own. For your sake.
Posted by Laurie on September 30, 2011 at 9:47 pm | permalink |
What I firmly believe is that every relationship should start with an exit strategy. Not what you might think of as a pre-nump, although that could be included, but a real exit strategy. I uprooted my life to move to the UK with my boyfriend/husband. I have $1000 sitting in a bank account untouched that would pay for a flight back to Canada if I need it.
So if you and the farmer do patch everything up, and everything is all good again, you should still know in the back of your head who you would call and who you would stay with, not just in a situation of domestic violence but in case of emergencies in general.
Like now you know you need to call your friend in New York, not your dad.
Posted by TwisterB on September 30, 2011 at 9:54 pm | permalink |
I didn't say it in your last post but I will here. You have said that you're an optimist in previous posts and now I believe you. An optimist who keeps the relationship door open with your father, your ex, and now with the Farmer … all for different reasons. I think all three of these relationships are stressful in their own way and yet you are able to maintain them and hope they will improve with enough time and effort. Maybe they will and this is "the dip". I don't know. I don't think any of us really knows. Having a plan is a good start.
Posted by Mark Wiehenstroer on September 30, 2011 at 10:12 pm | permalink |
P – I don't like to comment. I have been reading you for about 4 years, and I see a common thread in your posts. I do not want to sound critical …I am not. But you remind me so much of a friend of mine who has been diagnosed as "addicted to drama." She is on her third marriage (which won't last) because most men simply cannot put up with the drama. Can you see a therapist on your own (besides your twice weekly sessions with the Farmer) to see what you can do about this? Most people tire very quickly of day to day drama.
Posted by Annemariedonnelly on September 30, 2011 at 10:20 pm | permalink |
P – I don't like to comment. I have been reading you for about 4 years, and I see a common thread in your posts. I do not want to sound critical …I am not. But you remind me so much of a friend of mine who has been diagnosed as "addicted to drama." She is on her third marriage (which won't last) because most men simply cannot put up with the drama. Can you see a therapist on your own (besides your twice weekly sessions with the Farmer) to see what you can do about this? Most people tire very quickly of day to day drama.
Posted by Annemariedonnelly on September 30, 2011 at 10:20 pm | permalink |
You won't leave 'next time'. Those words (I think) infer that in the heat of the moment, WHILE you are getting hit, you will leave. You won't. You will want (need?) to finish getting hit/pushed/punched/run over and take at least 5 minutes (but probably several hours) to process it. I think the body/mind shuts down during that time, and this is why people don't leave while they are getting hit. They can't process that this is happening again, at the time it is happening.
Also, 'leaving' does not involve quietly turning away, getting car keys, getting you and kids into the car, and driving away. Do you have a vehicle that you own, and can take?
'Leaving', in the heat of getting injured, involves some sort of communication on your part, either physical, or verbal, which would result in return communication from the other party, either verbal or physical. This is why I am saying that you won't leave 'next time'. That 'next time' interaction will need to come to an end. You will be mentally unable to stop, gather your thoughts and leave. No one can just 'leave' during that time.
The women who have tried are few, and dead.
Posted by Vicky on September 30, 2011 at 10:29 pm | permalink |
Penelope,
I love your blog. Lifes messy – sometimes its easy, and well arranged and sometimes its a bad case of dejavu. Regardless, it takes courage to share what you did. Who cares if its the top post. It just proves you DO touch people's lives. Whatever you write: you make them think. It's good to be alive. Keep writing. I for one will keep reading.
Posted by Lynnyyoung on September 30, 2011 at 10:34 pm | permalink |
Abuse always – universally – escalates. The "next time" might be too late. Believe the body of evidence, look at it unemotionally, and leave. It's hard, yes. But what you are already doing is far harder, I promise. I am a DV therapist. I have seen this too many times. Please help yourself avoid tragedy.
Posted by Katherine on September 30, 2011 at 10:43 pm | permalink |
"The next time, I will leave."
That's what you said, not out of context. So I think you need to get a plan. You can support yourself, so you can be confident. Consider "school" for your kids and practicing your smile while they are there. I KNOW depression. I know smile-less-ness, but I do not personally know abuse, so all I really want to convey is that you may not be ready for this relationship, or any relationship. I imagine that it seemed like the missing piece, like a cloud on the puzzle board that let the sunshine peep through a little, but really there are lots of missing pieces, but that's the unique you about you. If you think this is true, then it's time for a plan, with the primary consideration being financial security, and the boys. The boys.
Consider the farmer. You have not been happy in this relationship for a long time. What about him? (I'm not even referring to abuse.) I'm considering the myriad troubles in the relationship, and his life and the life of the boys. Possibly it's time to do something for all of them.
In turn, this will do something for you. Your magic may return. Where's the smile? Where's the magic of Penelope? Go find her, but first consider the boys and their recovery. You will survive this. Of course. You know that. The unknown is not whether you will bounce back. The unknown is what happens to all the boys.
Posted by Dondra on September 30, 2011 at 10:53 pm | permalink |
Your rationalizations are sounding tired.
You're a public persona. Either get yourself out of what seems to be a not right situation, or don't put it on your blog.
There are women out there who're in bad trouble being abused, with none of the resources you have available to you. To tell this dramatic story and then cop out with, "well I'll do something if it happens again" is to suggest that your story is more dramatic than real, and it's an insult.
Posted by Ginger on September 30, 2011 at 11:10 pm | permalink |
Hi, Penelope–
You know how one of your gifts is to use ingenuity to help people face their career demons?
Maybe you can reframe your personal situation by putting yourself in the place of someone in desperate need of a career lifeboat. What would Penelope say?
Try to look at your life with your two kids as your JOB/CAREER. The Farmer is your current boss.
Amanda (I'll call this person playing you) writes to you to say that her boss is insufferable from Monday to Thursday.(On Fridays, he's inappropriately solicitous).
Amanda's asshole Boss gives the important projects Amanda clearly deserves to less competent co-workers. When she speaks up in meetings, 'Asshole Boss' berates or mocks her and when she tries to discuss this with him in private, he threatens her– or worse.
Amanda says that this drama at work is giving her migraines and straining relationships, especially with her kids. BUT, Amanda tells you, she's needs to stick it out because the money is great. She says if he gives one more project to another junior, she's moving on. But, she doesn't have a plan in place or a next step. by the sound of her letter, you think she's paralyzed by fear and too beaten down to do anything. Writing you is her first step.
What would Penelope say? How would you help Amanda reclaim her power.
Please know that I'm not comparing the Farmer to the shitty boss IN ANY WAY. I'm just trying to reflect in 'Amanda's' situation, YOUR perception of your life based on what you experience and report.
YOU ARE NOT ALONE…
Posted by LISA IN vb on September 30, 2011 at 11:12 pm | permalink |
Bravo. You're on the right track. Keep going.
Posted by Yvette on September 30, 2011 at 11:15 pm | permalink |
By the way, I'm also a homeschool mom and I just want to say that you DO NOT need to put your kids in school. I have no idea why in the world people think that has anything to do with anything. To be clear, I don't think school is bad – my kids will go one day. But it's easy for people to act like putting them in school will somehow change your problem or make the answers clearer or spare them from the pain of it. That's a lie.
Posted by Yvette on September 30, 2011 at 11:17 pm | permalink |
My only relief from a crazy alcoholic home as a child was the 6 hours I spent in school every day.
Posted by Trish on October 1, 2011 at 6:32 am | permalink |
Ditto. Minus alcoholic. But double the crazy.
Posted by Brin on October 1, 2011 at 3:29 pm | permalink |
I'll try this again. Putting the kids in school, or daycare, especially, if they are really young, is a sure way to avoid sweeping the problem under the rug. It's amazing what those little buggers like to talk about at circle time.
I'm not saying you're in this situation, but most people, especially abusers or deniers of abuse, understand that teachers are mandatory reporters, and so the families will avoid this if possible. I ran into this a lot in W2W programs.
Posted by Anonymous on October 3, 2011 at 10:31 pm | permalink |
Until we hear from "the Farmer" very little of what you write can be seriously acknowledged. For all anyone knows, you are being untruthful or misleading. Your readers must believe that your side of the story is 100% correct…and that is hardly ever true in any disagreement. Ask any divorce attorney…as you probably soon will.
Posted by Ericcharleswentworth on September 30, 2011 at 11:23 pm | permalink |
So many times I have related to your blog posts. I relate deeply to this situation as well. I left my husband and lived in a women's shelter with my 3 children for a month. It's something I never though I'd do, but I'm glad I did. I learned so much while I was there. Just so you know, I am back living with my husband again. The most important thing I learned was about personal boundries and how to set them. Growing up in an abusive environment, as an aspie, this was something I never understood – I'm still learning. Boundaries are limits you set for yourself in order to define who you are and protect yourself from other people invading and hurting you. They allow us to develop a solid stance so that others cannot freely take our power from us. They remind ourselves and others that we are worthy and deserving to be treated with respect. What happened was not your fault! What you do next is your choice. If you want to heal, it is ultimately your responsibility. As scary as that may sound at times, the end result is incredibly freeing.
I am proud of you for posting this. It is your blog, write for you. The topic has always involved you. Those of us who care will continue to read. And those who don't, well, who cares.
I know you have received many offers, but if you'd like to chat with someone who knows what it feels like to have their past trauma and aspie traits thrown against them and called abusive, I'm here for you.
Posted by Webermom on October 1, 2011 at 12:15 am | permalink |
You're off topic so I'm going off topic.
Just read your book (it took almost two months to reach Canada!). It was timely. My current contract is disintegrating and, at 33, I'm giving myself the big 'WTF are you doing lecture' as I am forced to cash out some retirement savings to stay afloat financially.
What I liked about the book (even though it was a lot of recycled posts that I had read) was that it encouraged me to accept that I'm in a transition state and that learning to get through this transition and not fall into a depressive episode or eating disorder or consumer debt (done, done and done) will be an empowering experience. It will help me face life transitions to come. I will be better equipped to deal change in the future.
So thank you for the book and I'm hoping that if this is a transition for you, rather than a cycle, that you learn from it as well.
Posted by Katy on October 1, 2011 at 12:16 am | permalink |
FYI, if there's domestic violence, the first step is for you to be in therapy ALONE. Not just couples' therapy. You also need to look at how/why you don't see the 'abuse' your dad did. That will help you put this relationship with the Farmer in perspective. It's not your job to help the Farmer learn intimacy; it's your job to learn intimacy for yourself.
Posted by annie on October 1, 2011 at 12:26 am | permalink |
As Dan Savage said (paraphrased), shelters, emergency rooms, and graveyards are filled with women who once said, "My husband would never actually harm me".
So I would say to you: shelters, emergency rooms, and graveyards are filled with women who once said, "This doesn't count as abuse".
Posted by Sweet on October 1, 2011 at 12:30 am | permalink |
Or, "Next time this happens, I'm leaving".
Posted by Anonymous on October 2, 2011 at 8:17 pm | permalink |
I hate my husband today.
He really can be quite nasty.
But then I have to take responsibility for making him that way.
I have all the same 'things' on the go as you. AS married, intimacy issues two kids, self employed, just a little older than you and quite nuts. (in a good way)
We did therapy, twice now, and both times I came to the same conclusion. I can't do anything about the way he is, I can only influence the way he behaves towards me.
Mostly I do this by taking as little notice of him as possible. If I don;t rise to the bait the chances are the issue will be forgotten in half an hour and we will have tea together or some other domestic activity, instead of spending time with him trying to run away and me sitting on the bonnet of his car bending the wipers in frustration.
Sometimes he needs to assert himself so badly against the crying frustrated mess that is threatening to explode all over his nice neat little life that he has tried to physically restrain/dominate me.
I don't think he understands the hurt he causes and he is frighted of the consequences of trying to interact with me about stuff he just doesn't understand.
I am frightened of wasting my life on a man who can barely cope with the daily task of living with an AS woman and her equally different kids.
But when I stop caring what he thinks of us and treat him with kindness and ignore his weird need to control and complain about everything, we have a good life. The kids love him and have their own opinion of him which is his responsibility, not mine.
It's hard not to get sucked into the awful situations that lead to the possibility of violence. But it's not impossible. These days I go sit outside and take time to form a strategy before I have to tackle a difficult problem with him. If it goes wrong, I have to leave and come back to it later. Sometimes it just doesn't work, like today, but I didn't frighten him enough to make him want to defend himself. And in the silence left my my lack of fight, he will get his head around the problem and try to make amends in his own way. He is just as limited as I am, we both struggle, but It works best if I take responsibility for the outcome.
This is a terrible rambling post……but I guess I'm saying it's in your own hands to change the situation. You can create strategies and manage the difficult stuff, just like you'd manage a difficult client. It's just a mindset.
Nobody has to leave………….Unless they want to
Posted by sandra carol on October 1, 2011 at 12:33 am | permalink |
Penelope, I'm so glad you're staying. And I'm so glad you both are in counseling. I think it's important that you both realize your responsibilities in this. No, it's not right that the Farmer was physically abusive. And it's also just as equally not right that you are emotionally abusive. You both need to assume more responsibility for your marriage and the environment you're raising your kids.
Penelope, your upbringing and your Aspergers is not an excuse. You've got to figure out how to live with this for the sake of your children.
Posted by DL on October 1, 2011 at 1:08 am | permalink |
Here's my question: What is The Farmer's reaction to you making this information public? I'm not asking in any sort of accusatory way. I'm truly just curious. He can't be happy about this. Am I correct?
Posted by Oli Tilleard on October 1, 2011 at 1:44 am | permalink |
Here's my question: What is The Farmer's reaction to you making this information public? I'm not asking in any sort of accusatory way. I'm truly just curious. He can't be happy about this. Am I correct?
Posted by Oli Tilleard on October 1, 2011 at 1:44 am | permalink |
Hi Penelope,
I hope this note finds you at peace. Your domestic abuse hit a chord for me because I have a family member whom was in an abusive relationship. They both knew how to push each others button until fits were flying . Two weeks before their wedding I was there when he started hitting her and I jumped him. He pushed me to the floor and the fight stopped but two weeks later she married him. I decided not to get involved because I would be the bad guy. I told her I will be there for you if you ever decide to leave him. It took her almost 10 years and two children later. I was part of their lives during those years and they never fought in front of me. Because next time I would call the cops. They were both guilty. They brought the worse on each other and the kids saw it. She finally left him one day when he dragged her by her hair in front of the kids. She and the kids came to live at my place for 6 months until she got her own place.
If this continues you know what to do. And people can tell you what to do until they're blue in the face, but you will either stay or leave. And deal with the consequences. It's your life and NO ONE can live it for you. Honesty is what we're willing to see and deal with.
It's interesting that you finish with…
"It is my hope that this blog will keep me honest, and that the next time, I will leave."
Are you expecting a next time? Because my hope is that if you were to leave is because you want to and not have to. And that there will never be a next time.
Best,
Evelyn
Posted by Evebad on October 1, 2011 at 2:01 am | permalink |
Don't worry about your blog. Those of us who are always here will always be here for whatever you post about. (as long as we have internet of course). You are a great writer so it doesn't matter really if it is about family incest and abuse or corporate incest and abuse. You write. We read.
I wish you all the best and am out here rooting for you that it all works out.
Posted by Roberta on October 1, 2011 at 2:08 am | permalink |
I second that: I had a baby 4 weeks ago and, whenever I get a couple extra minutes, I check your blog for something new. You give me something interesting to think about when I'm covered in spit up!
And I'm rooting for you too, Penelope.
Posted by Meg Flynn on October 1, 2011 at 7:01 pm | permalink |
Dear Penelope,
A few random comments that I hope you find helpful (in list format, as I find great comfort in lists myself:
1. THANK YOU, Amanda Hite!
2. When you have endured sexual abuse, and particularly incest, cultivating healthy relationships, setting boundaries, and experiencing true intimacy are lifelong challenges that everyone deals with but that are made exponentially more difficult for you through no fault of your own!!
3. I was glad to read that you and the farmer are in therapy; my hope is that your therapist has a firm background in treating trauma. No disrespect to good marriage counselors, but this goes beyond the scope of many (not all) of their expertise. The reason I mention this is because of the powerful mind-body connection that comes with sexual abuse. Someone took something that is supposed to be very good and made it very…complicated to say the very least…for you. So much so that for many people it is as if those painful memories are stored not just in your brain, but in everymuscle, bone, and fiber of your body. Men often become angry when they learn of a female partner's sexual abuse and misdirect that anger they feel toward the perpetrator and/or themselves (for not being able to protect you–even if the abuse occurred before they even knew you). This is completely illogical, but quite common. I must clarify that I am not inferring that this explains the farmer's behavior and that it most certainly doesn't justify it! My point is that there are exercises designed for couples where at least one partner has endured sexual abuse. They can help both of you deal with the physicall aspect of intimacy, and a therapist who has experience in this area can help both of you pace this process so it isn't too much at once.
3. Anyone more qualified than I am who thinks this is a worthy consideration please speak to it better than I have!
4. I really liked one of the other reader's comments about how your writing inspires her to think about herself and her own life, regardless of your topic. I feel the same way. Whether your next post is a list of tips for a great resume, or an update on your journey through your relationships in your personal life, or your freaking grocery list I will be reading…and, based on the other comments, it sounds like I'll be in good company.
5. You are a good person. You are worthy of love. You are stronger than you realize.
Be well, Penelope!
Posted by Dee on October 1, 2011 at 2:27 am | permalink |
Dear Penelope,
A few random comments that I hope you find helpful (in list format, as I find great comfort in lists myself:
1. THANK YOU, Amanda Hite!
2. When you have endured sexual abuse, and particularly incest, cultivating healthy relationships, setting boundaries, and experiencing true intimacy are lifelong challenges that everyone deals with but that are made exponentially more difficult for you through no fault of your own!!
3. I was glad to read that you and the farmer are in therapy; my hope is that your therapist has a firm background in treating trauma. No disrespect to good marriage counselors, but this goes beyond the scope of many (not all) of their expertise. The reason I mention this is because of the powerful mind-body connection that comes with sexual abuse. Someone took something that is supposed to be very good and made it very…complicated to say the very least…for you. So much so that for many people it is as if those painful memories are stored not just in your brain, but in everymuscle, bone, and fiber of your body. Men often become angry when they learn of a female partner's sexual abuse and misdirect that anger they feel toward the perpetrator and/or themselves (for not being able to protect you–even if the abuse occurred before they even knew you). This is completely illogical, but quite common. I must clarify that I am not inferring that this explains the farmer's behavior and that it most certainly doesn't justify it! My point is that there are exercises designed for couples where at least one partner has endured sexual abuse. They can help both of you deal with the physicall aspect of intimacy, and a therapist who has experience in this area can help both of you pace this process so it isn't too much at once.
3. Anyone more qualified than I am who thinks this is a worthy consideration please speak to it better than I have!
4. I really liked one of the other reader's comments about how your writing inspires her to think about herself and her own life, regardless of your topic. I feel the same way. Whether your next post is a list of tips for a great resume, or an update on your journey through your relationships in your personal life, or your freaking grocery list I will be reading…and, based on the other comments, it sounds like I'll be in good company.
5. You are a good person. You are worthy of love. You are stronger than you realize.
Be well, Penelope!
Posted by Dee on October 1, 2011 at 2:27 am | permalink |
I've looked at your blog off and on and have concluded you are truly a horrific person. You will stop at nothing to get attention for yourself and your blog. Maybe its just a soap opera you are making up here but sadly I think it is your last desperate attempt at feeling relevant. I feel sorry for your current husband, your ex husband and anyone who has ever fallen into your world. Any adult male that goes around in this world has met girls like you. You are not the majority thank God but a very small and terrible minority. You are manipulative to the 100th degree and Im sure you provide the crazy girl sex that gets many a young man or older lonely man mixed up at first. You are the definition of needy, unstable and crazy. You even admit you are messed up and that makes it worse. You are truly a sad person screaming for attention at almost every turn. Your act is tired and not as uncommon as you would like to beleive. Unfortunately it works on guys who don't believe there are actually nice women in the world. You know there are nice women in the world. That is part of what makes you disgusted with yourself and so willing to lash out at others.
Do the farmer a favor and leave. Not after 30 days. Now. ASAP. Today. He will find someone nice or be alone for a time and be so much happier than with your nonsense. What is insane is that you want people to think you are being abused. Seriously? That is disgusting. Abuse is an awful thing and should not be used as a tool to drive blog hits. You are abusing women who actually live in fear and terrible circumstances. You should feel disgusted with yourself. Its sad for your boys of course but the best day of his life and any man who has ever run into you is the day you take your manipulative circus on the road. He should pay for you to move to New York. Put a donation button for you to leave. Im a "successful entrep. who has started several companies" and actually sold them for a lot of money. Grow up. Your gonna be dead in 35 years and noone will care about your nonsense in about 5 – 10. Move on. Also put your kids in school. It is abuse that you don't expose them to some normal people. They cant help who their mother is but they are lucky to be born in this country and should be exposed to some of the nice, kind and wonderful women who reside in this country.
Posted by California Dreaming on October 1, 2011 at 2:50 am | permalink |
What terrible things to say to someone who is in such a vulnerable place in her life. Rather than judging PT you might want to take a look at yourself. Everyone is trying here, in their own messed up way we are all trying to make the best of life. Judgement does nothing, it does not help, it makes YOU and YOU ALONE look bad. So rather than think you have all the answers and know what is best for a woman you read about "off and on" on a blog site that encompasses a fraction of her life, think about what your nasty, hateful, disrespectful comment says about yourself. Because you didn't just disrespect PT you disrespected all people, male and female, who are in abusive relationships. Your comment "do the farmer a favor and leave" was terribly disappointing — to see someone be so hateful to someone who is so hurt and lost and confused was just awful. Victims of domestic abuse have enough trouble gaining the courage to leave and make a better start for themselves, they do not need you or anyone else telling them their abuser would be better off without them. It seems to me that you might be the one with serious problems — anyone who verbally or physically abuses another person is in serious need of help, and they and they alone are responsible for their actions — NO EXCUSES. Also your comment signed "california dreaming" is a disgrace to that lovely state.
Posted by Guest on October 1, 2011 at 1:25 pm | permalink |
What terrible things to say to someone who is in such a vulnerable place in her life. Rather than judging PT you might want to take a look at yourself. Everyone is trying here, in their own messed up way we are all trying to make the best of life. Judgement does nothing, it does not help, it makes YOU and YOU ALONE look bad. So rather than think you have all the answers and know what is best for a woman you read about "off and on" on a blog site that encompasses a fraction of her life, think about what your nasty, hateful, disrespectful comment says about yourself. Because you didn't just disrespect PT you disrespected all people, male and female, who are in abusive relationships. Your comment "do the farmer a favor and leave" was terribly disappointing — to see someone be so hateful to someone who is so hurt and lost and confused was just awful. Victims of domestic abuse have enough trouble gaining the courage to leave and make a better start for themselves, they do not need you or anyone else telling them their abuser would be better off without them. It seems to me that you might be the one with serious problems — anyone who verbally or physically abuses another person is in serious need of help, and they and they alone are responsible for their actions — NO EXCUSES. Also your comment signed "california dreaming" is a disgrace to that lovely state.
Posted by Guest on October 1, 2011 at 1:25 pm | permalink |
I wish that people who express negative solutions to the hard lessons life brings us would have the courage to use his/her own name. California dreaming? sounds like a nightmare to me. Responding negatively to others' life problems usually means that the negative response comes from not wanting to look at his/her life.
We are each works in progress. Thank God I had the courage to find my life lessons hard as they were to navigate. And thank God for Penelope.
.
You have your priorities straight. The boys are number 1. I am 70–soon to be 71–and the proudest thing I've done with my life is to break the chain of family abuse. All of it interveres with the quality of life.
All conflict is about personal power. I know the farmer is an introvert. I am, too. I need complete alone time daily to process my world. I live alone now. Maybe that is how I always should have lived. I do know that I am at peace and so grateful for my life.
From one of Facebook friends–
"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace." Jimi Hendrix
Posted by Kathy Berman on October 1, 2011 at 1:43 pm | permalink |
Love the Hendrix quote. So true, yet so unlikely.
Posted by Anonymous on October 2, 2011 at 6:07 pm | permalink |
As you stated – "You should feel disgusted with yourself" – right back at ya' and all the people who read your comment and "liked" it. People who can say the kind of things you've written in this post are typically as miserable as they sound. So, I almost feel sorry for you.
Posted by Krista on October 1, 2011 at 1:48 pm | permalink |
I think a lot of what he said is true. There are 2 sides to this story. Penelope (forgot her real name) is an unstable female who has way too much free time. Yes she has a history of abuse, but she is acting it out on the unsuspecting farmer. It is time for Penelope to move out and deal with her issues without a victim (farmer). Penelope has too much mental baggage to have a healthy relationship with anyone. No matter who she lives with they will be the victim – male or female.
Posted by Carriefish on October 1, 2011 at 6:23 pm | permalink |
I think a lot of what he said is true. There are 2 sides to this story. Penelope (forgot her real name) is an unstable female who has way too much free time. Yes she has a history of abuse, but she is acting it out on the unsuspecting farmer. It is time for Penelope to move out and deal with her issues without a victim (farmer). Penelope has too much mental baggage to have a healthy relationship with anyone. No matter who she lives with they will be the victim – male or female.
Posted by Carriefish on October 1, 2011 at 6:23 pm | permalink |
Where's the DISLIKE button when you need one
Posted by galynn on October 3, 2011 at 1:52 am | permalink |
Where's the DISLIKE button when you need one
Posted by galynn on October 3, 2011 at 1:52 am | permalink |
Where's the DISLIKE button when you need one
Posted by galynn on October 3, 2011 at 1:52 am | permalink |
Where's the DISLIKE button when you need one.
Posted by Mark Wiehenstroer on October 1, 2011 at 6:07 pm | permalink |
I have read your comment, mulled it over and concluded that you have left a shitty, ignorant response to this blog.
There are two sides to every story. But no one, not Penelope (her legal name, by the way) or her husband deserves to be treated in the horrific way that you suggest.
You don't personally know any of the people involved in this story. If you did, your words would be compassionate toward all of them. It's so easy to be an ignorant critic. It's much harder to be the vulnerable public figure where strangers can take out their aggression on you and your choices without even using their real name.
Penelope has made a living by giving useful career advice and being honest about her personal life. This clearly upsets you. Here's how to deal with that: Stop reading and move on.
Posted by Penny Rene on October 1, 2011 at 8:39 pm | permalink |
All criticism is self-criticism.
Posted by Just Plain Brian on October 2, 2011 at 12:48 am | permalink |
"It is easier to be cruel than kind"
Posted by Zaf on October 2, 2011 at 1:10 pm | permalink |
California dreaming is right on target! Ask penelope what happened to the two boys and the goat business! She starts things, gets all this great publicity on her blog, and then puff, that is the end of that!!! I know this women and she is crazy! I feel so sorry for the farmer and her children. She is doing no one any favors. She is living with the farmer so she can have great blog crap. Over half of what she says is bull____! It makes for great writing though. The local people won't even read her crap. There is a very good reason she has no friends! New York is a much better place for her to live then a small town of 2,000 people. She has given Darlington nothing. If she is so wonderful, why isn't she doing any thing to make our "crappy school" better. Maybe the math sheet she posted is not about her son being so smart and bored, maybe he REALLY made a mistake on the easy math sheet! ARE YOU KIDDING ME PEOPLE!!!
Posted by Normalwomen on October 4, 2011 at 12:24 am | permalink |
I don't get your comment. Do you know Penelope? Personally? In real life? How can you label someone horrific if you've never met them? PT's writing does not come from a place of hate or viciousness, and I'm almost positive that, through her writing here on this blog, she plays the part of teacher/guide to those who may/may not be lost or who want a story to relate to.
Let her write. Let her talk. Let her inspire her own path.
"California Dreaming," you with this anonymous alias (a name which, by the way, completely contradicts all your words that follow), I hope you never procreate – there is absolutely no reason for so much hate.
There are two sides to every story. There are thousands of perceptions in this great, big world. Every person grew up in a different home. With different parents. Some, without parents. Have you heard, we're all different?
By the way. Before you give such harsh and direct instructions to a person you don't even know, learn the difference between "your" and "you're." Or don't. It's way funnier to see "your gonna be dead…" followed by "…put your kids in school."
Posted by Sarah Barnes on October 5, 2011 at 7:29 am | permalink |
Jesus, did you miss the part about the hitting?
Posted by Travitt Hamilton on October 7, 2011 at 7:53 pm | permalink |
You hit the nail on the head here dreaming. I came to this blog for the first time today linked to a fantastic piece on small business ownership. I decided to read more and found these posts. I too was "the farmer" once to a woman like this. It was the worst time of my life. The good news is that one day the abuse will end and she wwill be alone like my "Penelope ". After her charms have worn off by the passage of time and most of the people have drifted out of her insanity orbit.
Posted by Cirquedaddy on October 25, 2011 at 1:14 am | permalink |
I've looked at your blog off and on and have concluded you are truly a horrific person. You will stop at nothing to get attention for yourself and your blog. Maybe its just a soap opera you are making up here but sadly I think it is your last desperate attempt at feeling relevant. I feel sorry for your current husband, your ex husband and anyone who has ever fallen into your world. Any adult male that goes around in this world has met girls like you. You are not the majority thank God but a very small and terrible minority. You are manipulative to the 100th degree and Im sure you provide the crazy girl sex that gets many a young man or older lonely man mixed up at first. You are the definition of needy, unstable and crazy. You even admit you are messed up and that makes it worse. You are truly a sad person screaming for attention at almost every turn. Your act is tired and not as uncommon as you would like to beleive. Unfortunately it works on guys who don't believe there are actually nice women in the world. You know there are nice women in the world. That is part of what makes you disgusted with yourself and so willing to lash out at others.
Do the farmer a favor and leave. Not after 30 days. Now. ASAP. Today. He will find someone nice or be alone for a time and be so much happier than with your nonsense. What is insane is that you want people to think you are being abused. Seriously? That is disgusting. Abuse is an awful thing and should not be used as a tool to drive blog hits. You are abusing women who actually live in fear and terrible circumstances. You should feel disgusted with yourself. Its sad for your boys of course but the best day of his life and any man who has ever run into you is the day you take your manipulative circus on the road. He should pay for you to move to New York. Put a donation button for you to leave. Im a "successful entrep. who has started several companies" and actually sold them for a lot of money. Grow up. Your gonna be dead in 35 years and noone will care about your nonsense in about 5 – 10. Move on. Also put your kids in school. It is abuse that you don't expose them to some normal people. They cant help who their mother is but they are lucky to be born in this country and should be exposed to some of the nice, kind and wonderful women who reside in this country.
Posted by California Dreaming on October 1, 2011 at 2:50 am | permalink |
PS, I think Amanda is a great help to you now. I am glad you let her in. Hang in there and know many people care for you and your family. — d.
Posted by Diana on October 1, 2011 at 3:31 am | permalink |
You don't want to raise the boys alone? Good God, this isn't 1952. You're pissing me off with this Real Housewives bullshit. I'm the weakest person in the world, but even I have boundaries. I read your blog because you're smart and you make me see things from a unique point of view. But this "I'd rather be in a crappy relationship than no relationship at all" is sooo cliche. As in Lifetime Television for Women/Yaz commercial uninteresting. I want to care about the person behind the Penelope Trunk persona, but I can't keep up with her self-indulgent mood swings. I was reading this blog long before the Farmer came into the picture,so I'm having trouble buying into your "Sister Wives" victim mentality. But, genius blogger that you are, you got my attention. So, I guess we all know who the real victim is.
Posted by Janeegib on October 1, 2011 at 3:34 am | permalink |
Look, it's not a 1950s thing. I mean, I support the family financially, and I've lived in five states, and I am employable from anywhere in the world. So it's not that I feel dependent in a 1950s way.
I want to raise the boys in a family because I like the idea of family. I like the idea of the kids seeing two adults interacting in adult ways. I like the idea of the boys living with someone they call dad (and I know this would not happen again if we left the Farmer). I like the idea of having an adult to smile at across the table when a kid says something funny. I like the idea that another person has a stake in the outcome of my children. I like the idea of sharing my life with someone.
I know this sounds pie-in-the-sky — maybe for anyone, but definitely from someone in an abusive relationship. But if it sounds pie-in-the-sky, I think that's what should annoy you. It is not inherently annoying to want to be a family and share raising kids with someone else. Penelope
Posted by Anonymous on October 1, 2011 at 2:59 pm | permalink |
This post broke my heart. Yes, there is nothing inherently wrong or annoying wanting to be a family and share raising kids with someone else. However,1. Do you want your children seeing two adults interacting the way you and the Farmer do?2. Do you really think the farmer has a stake in the outcome of your children? At least, consistently? If so, he wouldn't be throwing you, their mother, down on the ground. And suggest that your son would grow up and hit you?I am not going to suggest leaving him. That is your choice. But if you stay with him, you really need to learn enforce boundaries with him. And also respect his boundaries. That is an adult relationship: mutual respect with caring and cherishing of each other. Take care.
Posted by Latha on October 1, 2011 at 8:16 pm | permalink |
This is not the 'family" you want to raise your kids. You may as well sit a cardboard cutout at the dinner table to simulate "Dad." Penelope, you are one big plate of crazy, and no can gag that down. Not the Farmer, and not your kids. If you stay, your kids are eventually going to hate you for raising them in Crazy Town, and you will have dismantled the thread of credibility you are hanging from in the business world.
Wishing away your post about your "home life" won't make it go away. Any more so than doing the dishes will clean up your mess of a life. I may continue to read your blog for entertainment, sort of like not being able to look away from a train crash. But trusting your advice? For me it has always been iffy anyway, considering your personal career moves. Now I just want you to take a deep breath, pack your stuff up and take your kids to a new place. Maybe hit up your parents with the deep pockets. They owe you.
Posted by PalmSpringsGirl on October 1, 2011 at 9:53 pm | permalink |
Sorry Penelope, but this comment is quite unnerving. It's ok to want a family. But you can't move to your boyfriend's house with your kids, tell them to call him dad, scream at each other all the time, pop pills and pretend it's a family.
Also:
- he's not their dad.
- the boys are not 'seeing two adults interacting in adult ways'. They are seeing two adults interacting like children – fighting, hitting and screaming when they don't get their own way.
- you don't want to raise the boys alone. Ok, that's understandable. But sometimes you have to.
- where's their father in all of this (and I don't mean physically, I mean in terms of being an alternative primary carer).
This might sound a bit harsh, but it's meant to be constructive.
Posted by Cathy0 on October 2, 2011 at 3:16 am | permalink |
Sorry Penelope, but this comment is quite unnerving. It's ok to want a family. But you can't move to your boyfriend's house with your kids, tell them to call him dad, scream at each other all the time, pop pills and pretend it's a family.
Also:
- he's not their dad.
- the boys are not 'seeing two adults interacting in adult ways'. They are seeing two adults interacting like children – fighting, hitting and screaming when they don't get their own way.
- you don't want to raise the boys alone. Ok, that's understandable. But sometimes you have to.
- where's their father in all of this (and I don't mean physically, I mean in terms of being an alternative primary carer).
This might sound a bit harsh, but it's meant to be constructive.
Posted by Cathy0 on October 2, 2011 at 3:16 am | permalink |
This is ridiculous. You won't leave an abusive relationship because you don't want to raise the boys alone? So you will let them watch a man beat their mother just to have a man in the house? It is hard to take seriously that you are concerned about them when you clear state that you are staying because of your own needs. They can call him dad but he is not the role model they need. And, again, where is their father? This is just pathetic and sad. One day your sons will look back in anger and sadness at the way you made decisions. I know. I survived life with a mentally ill mother who put us in the path of abuse, violence, alcoholism. I have seen or spoken to her in 21 years. She has never met her grandchildren. Is this what you want?
Posted by so sad on October 1, 2011 at 4:35 am | permalink |
Your readers and hopefully your therapist will give you guidance, and present to you alternatives: staying, leaving, 30 days, permanently, putting the boys' needs first, etc.
You will be the one to choose.
It seems to me that it is not just one choice (staying or leaving–a gross oversimplification). There are many choices. As you choose what is best for yourself, you "involve" the others and indirectly make choices for them. It is your solemn duty to make choices that are just as good for your sons as for you–this is how you protect them until they can make their own life-altering choices. You may or may not be able to make a choice that is good for both you and the farmer. He may not agree with your choices. Your choice may threaten him or damage him as some readers have pointed out.
Your goals? Save your life and your mental health? Protect your sons? Undo/forgive past abuses? Put yourself in a situation which brings out the best in you? Finally learn the meanings of intimacy, teaching yourself to make applications despite your history and your diagnosis? Get and keep peace (as opposed to getting and keeping drama)?
Your timeline? 30 days or ??? 8 weeks in therapy/16 sessions or ??? Deadline game-changer: WHEN there is another abusive incident. I think you should believe those who say that it can be too late if you are enmeshed in another abusive incident.
Your emergency plan in a worst-case scenario (the abuse between the 2 of you begins to escalate again)? Car at the ready, some cash/funds . . . Great writer that you are, write the "final" letter, explaining where/why you drew the line, blaming or forgiving, saying "good-bye". Does the letter match up with your goals and values?
Your follow-up plan, to clean up, to heal . . . Stay away from those who have hurt you in the past. You don't need their love/approval. You have everything you need, already within you.
Penelope, are you meditating?
Posted by Chris K on October 1, 2011 at 4:58 am | permalink |
Fuck- this is NOT want I want to read. Listen: I have been married for 30 hundred years and marriage is hard. HARD! So I don't want to make a judgement against the farmer because I have occasionally been pushed. And shoved. When I have been NUTTY CRAZYYYY. And I pushed first and I pushed back.. maybe 5 times in 30 something years.
BUT….you my girl, have a history. You seem to make life hard on yourself. (This is a mother talking…so NOT saying it's your fault. ) Listen: ask yourself if you had a hand in this. Shit, I pulled a gun on my man once…as if I even knew how to shoot a gun…so should he have said I abused him? Probably.
Honestly I am not sure what my advice here is: Marriage is hard. You try and not screw up the kids. You try and not hurt each other. You try and protect each other. You try and look across the table and say, "Hell yes I love this man FOR EVER! You laugh. You cry. But here's the thing: If you didn't push, push, PUSH….like we know we can…then you must leave. If you pushed until the man's head exploded and you know you had a hand in it…think about it. I wish you good luck and happiness. It comes with age. (did I say that?) xx
Posted by Candice Reed on October 1, 2011 at 5:11 am | permalink |
My parents fought when I was young… I remember my father always hitting my mother, I would hide and take care of my little brother everytime. Sometimes I woild cver his ears but he still heard. He was 4 and I was 10.
We always ended up in hotels or at her friends houses.
She never left him and we ended up being adopted.
I never forgave my mother for not leaving. To this day I hate her.
Good luck… I hope your kids don't end up resenting you for doig this to them.
Posted by From experience... on October 1, 2011 at 5:27 am | permalink |
My parents fought when I was young… I remember my father always hitting my mother, I would hide and take care of my little brother everytime. Sometimes I woild cver his ears but he still heard. He was 4 and I was 10.
We always ended up in hotels or at her friends houses.
She never left him and we ended up being adopted.
I never forgave my mother for not leaving. To this day I hate her.
Good luck… I hope your kids don't end up resenting you for doig this to them.
Posted by From experience... on October 1, 2011 at 5:27 am | permalink |
Sorry to hear that. It's a heartbreaking story. Good luck to you also.
Posted by Anonymous on October 2, 2011 at 8:13 pm | permalink |
No one & I mean no one has any idea how hard it is to walk away from a situation like this. It took me up until my ex almost choked me to death. It was then that I was able to find my backbone, put down my pride and walk away. You'll leave when you're good and ready. The question is, how much of your time, life, & energy of yours and your children are you willing to sacrifice? You might be better off financially for the time being, but the emotional cost will far exceed the financial benefits. Pay now. Or, pay more later.
Posted by Monica on October 1, 2011 at 5:58 am | permalink |
Glad to hear you got to walk away. The choking part, pretty scary. Your comment about pride really struck me too. I think that has a lot to do with hanging on, unfortunately.
P could move out to Silicon Valley, where failure is a badge of honor, and surviving it is not something to be ashamed of. It's the same everywhere, really, especially when it comes to bolting a bad relationship.
Posted by Anonymous on October 2, 2011 at 8:24 pm | permalink |
Glad to hear you got to walk away. The choking part, pretty scary. Your comment about pride really struck me too. I think that has a lot to do with hanging on, unfortunately.
P could move out to Silicon Valley, where failure is a badge of honor, and surviving it is not something to be ashamed of. It's the same everywhere, really, especially when it comes to bolting a bad relationship.
Posted by Anonymous on October 2, 2011 at 8:24 pm | permalink |
Glad to hear you got to walk away. The choking part, pretty scary. Your comment about pride really struck me too. I think that has a lot to do with hanging on, unfortunately.
P could move out to Silicon Valley, where failure is a badge of honor, and surviving it is not something to be ashamed of. It's the same everywhere, really, especially when it comes to bolting a bad relationship.
Posted by Anonymous on October 2, 2011 at 8:24 pm | permalink |
And also, I have two more cents to add.
I don't think you have issues with intimacy. People that have these issues don't have intimate relationships and yet you are the following – daughter, sister, mother, wife, ex-wife, friend, etc. This is much more than a lot of people have and you have also sustained relationships that most would toss out the back door. This tells me that you cherish your close, intimate relationships. I like that. It supports my conviction that you're a good person.
And lastly, what you call childish passive-aggressiveness, I call spitefulness. It is, very much, a resemblance of a trait I often see, can now predict, and even smile fondly over, with regards to my very own wonderful mate. So, I like that too.
But maybe, next time – don't leave the meat out of the meal. You know how you feel when maybe you've had too many bagels? Maybe this is how your Farmer, who I'm sure loves you, felt when you didn't give him enough protein.
Posted by Rachel on October 1, 2011 at 7:13 am | permalink |
I have not commented in a long time. But I founnd this post so disturbing that I couldn't sleep. Here is a list of the five things that kept me awake.
1) There is lots of room for ambiguity in relationships. When I am angry with my boyfriend, I always wonder if it is maybe really my fault. Who knows? But as hundreds of people have said here, hitting and shoving cross the line. There's no ambiguity. You can't see that, because of your history of abuse. But your readers can see it. It's wrong. It's unacceptable. Don't accept it. Leave.
2) If you stay, you are sending a very clear message to your kids that it is ok to hit people. That you can hit your wife, or shove her across the room so hard she falls, and she won't leave. Think about what kind of men you want your kids to be. Do you want them to hit their wives? Do you want them to create homes where nobody really knows what is right and what is wrong, and everyone feels the way you do now? Do you want them to continue living with the Farmer so that they can learn this behavior?
3) Are you going to wait until he hits the kids? Because logically, if you think he's hitting you because you are difficult, and you are difficult becuase you have Asperger's, then isn't your son with Asperger's just as difficult? Anyway, it doesn't matter how difficult you are, there is no excuse for violence. If he thinks this is ok behavior, he will, in all likelihood, behave this way when your sons are difficult. Can you imagine, when they are teenagers, what it will be like?
4) "They love him. They call him Dad." Yes, but like the cello practice, they are looking at you, to see how you act. They love him because you love him. If you say, "Physical violence is not ok, we are leaving," they will learn an important lesson from you about how to take care of yourself and your family.
5) I do not understand why you have not discussed the situation with your ex-husband, who is the kids' real dad. He should know what is going on in the house where his kids live.
Posted by Rachel R on October 1, 2011 at 7:25 am | permalink |
I agree with Rachel R. Think about what you are teaching the boys. Also the earlier comment is a good one, if a therapist said you couldn't write about your marital difficulty which would you choose the blog or marriage?
Without hearing the other side it's hard to know what's going on here.
Posted by Tyerc on October 1, 2011 at 10:06 am | permalink |
I always believe that marital matter especially sensitive one should be kept secret the married couple except for matters related to abuse..
Posted by Bubbles Tess on October 16, 2011 at 7:27 am | permalink |
Hi Penelope,
I suggest you relax, get a massage, pray or meditate.
I myself am a blogger and I know the pressure of coming up with topics that can keep your readers interested, add to that the responsibilities of motherhood and keeping your partner happy.
It can be overwhelming for a normal person what more if you have Asperger's.
I'm not an expert and I don't have any research or study to back up this comment. But all I can say is that you deserve to be happy like everyone else. And life is not designed to be perfect. My wish for you is to listen to your kids and take them seriously. If your kids tell you you should smile more, that's a big sign screaming at you to relax. Ignore all those "experts" that tell you how to live your life. Listen to your kids instead and do your best to please them and make them happy instead of other people.
Kids are easier to please and they are smarter than most. I think adults grow dumber as time passes. Just look at our parents.
Rooting for you!
Wenx
Posted by Healin Grace on October 1, 2011 at 10:06 am | permalink |
Add one more opinion to the list. He shoved you because he could. He knows all to well you are dysfunctional and self proclaimed crazy,(maybe professionally too) he has the perfect victim. I read once here; if you do the same behavior you get the same results. I know you were referring to jobs, but isn't life a job?
He expected you to blog about it, he expected the drama that ensued, he has the cards and plays them well. You longed for comfort and contentment, knows your weak spots with the kids.
What I suggest is an old American standby… Cast Iron Skillet. Keep it close, keep it handy and never ever be the victim. He has to sleep sometime and until he "wakes up" to the issue he has created, I would say your skillet is your reach out and touch someone card.
I was pushed/charged at one time by a guy I lived with. He expected/anticipated my reactions. He was wrong, so very wrong. He thought he could get away with it, I would blow my top, he would control me and life would be good. Very calmly I explained to him that if he came into my general personal space in a rage, that he could expect the very same from me. He began to laugh and then it hit him… He has to sleep sometime. Being crazy has it's advantages…
It took some time, but I am free, and I can tell you this, the comfort zone was a war zone and after leaving it, I am was FREE….
Posted by Kym Dees on October 1, 2011 at 12:01 pm | permalink |
You are lucky you got away.You are a statistical outlier. Threatening an abuser is generally not a good idea, nor is arming yourself, unless you plan on taking that skillet everywhere you go. I'm kind of surprised you made it out without ending up in prison yourself. Or worse.
Posted by Anonymous on October 2, 2011 at 8:31 pm | permalink |
One of the most important lessons of my life is that you can understand why people do the negative things they do – but an explanation does not make the behavior acceptable. You may think you understand why The Farmer does what he does – but his actions are not OK. You and your children deserve a safe place to live, where love is not mixed up with violence.
Posted by Lljay on October 1, 2011 at 1:02 pm | permalink |
Penelope this is hard but you must leave, if not for you then for your children. Aspergers is hard on the whole family, yes but NO ONE should hit, push or hurt another person. Ever. You can get help from a therapist for you and the boys and learn to live together in a more healthy way. I urge you to find someone who is an expert with Aspergers. If you need help finding someone I can help you but you must first leave and stay safe. Please leave. Feel free to email if you want I am offering help.
Posted by Stacy on October 1, 2011 at 1:24 pm | permalink |
Penelope this is hard but you must leave, if not for you then for your children. Aspergers is hard on the whole family, yes but NO ONE should hit, push or hurt another person. Ever. You can get help from a therapist for you and the boys and learn to live together in a more healthy way. I urge you to find someone who is an expert with Aspergers. If you need help finding someone I can help you but you must first leave and stay safe. Please leave. Feel free to email if you want I am offering help.
Posted by Stacy on October 1, 2011 at 1:24 pm | permalink |
I admire your courage in presenting yourself, warrts and all to your audience. Hopefully it will serve as an example to all of us to be ourselves, and hopefully you will find your smile again.
Posted by Wateryogi3 on October 1, 2011 at 1:55 pm | permalink |
I admire your courage in presenting yourself, warrts and all to your audience. Hopefully it will serve as an example to all of us to be ourselves, and hopefully you will find your smile again.
Posted by Wateryogi3 on October 1, 2011 at 1:55 pm | permalink |
Oh, please. Focusing on the terrible Farmer for hitting poor Penelope is ridiculous. There are two sides to this. I'm sure it didn't come out of nowhere. I'm not blaming the victim here, but really. I wonder what else someone who breaks lamps over there own head, and leaves the broken shards around to make a statement is capable of. We read about all the crazy antics and are supposed to think it's charming. It is entertaining, but I sure as hell wouldn't want to live with this unpredictable person. There's another side here, that's all.
Posted by Callen000 on October 1, 2011 at 2:43 pm | permalink |
Oh, please. Focusing on the terrible Farmer for hitting poor Penelope is ridiculous. There are two sides to this. I'm sure it didn't come out of nowhere. I'm not blaming the victim here, but really. I wonder what else someone who breaks lamps over there own head, and leaves the broken shards around to make a statement is capable of. We read about all the crazy antics and are supposed to think it's charming. It is entertaining, but I sure as hell wouldn't want to live with this unpredictable person. There's another side here, that's all.
Posted by Callen000 on October 1, 2011 at 2:43 pm | permalink |
I've been working in the field of intimate partner violence for over ten years now, and after reading all of these comments, and the comments on the last post, there is one thing that is screaming at me that no one has really touched on. Being in an unhealthy/abusive relationship is incredibly nuanced! Look, I know what I'm suppose to say, and what everyone here has been saying to one degree or another — if there is abuse, leave. No one deserves to be in an abusive situation. And yes, that is absolutely true. But most of the time, it's NOT that SIMPLE!! And I'm finding it annoying that your experience, or at least what you've shared with us here, is being reduced to simple tropes. Every path is unique, and the only one who knows how to walk it is you, the one who is experiencing it. (though if you feared for your safety or the safety of your children, I would be saying something different)
Moreover, if you come from an abusive past, your path will be that much more crooked and jagged, and perhaps unrecognizable to those that don't. Overcoming that past is incredibly hard, and it's not just as black and white as "any form of violence = abandon situation". Space might help in achieving clarity, but again, you know how you work best. The truth is that we are attracted to individuals who give us something particular, usually something that will help us learn what we really need to learn the most. So, listen. hard. to yourself, to your spouse. But mostly, to the deep, dark trenches of your inner self. The answers are all there.
The first thing that I thought of when reading your last post was, "uh-oh. Those kids are going to miss school": I grew up in an abusive household. I can count on one hand the amount of physical violence that was exchanged between my parents, but the verbal, emotional, psychological abuse was constant. The one thing that I looked forward to was school. I loved going to school because I got to escape being home. It was my saviour. I looked forward to September, and didn't actually care for holidays from school. Again, you know best, and I also don't have autism so social situation are fine for me. But it's worth sharing, I think.
You rock, Penelope.
Posted by Valerie on October 1, 2011 at 4:01 pm | permalink |
Yep, thanks Valerie for all your posts on this topic, the only one that stood out as anyone to actually pay attention to. Also frustrated and irritable about how simply easy a lot of people think that she could just leave.
But, regarding school, I think that for you that was an option, but there in Wisconsin they have land and pigs, and cats, and sky, and gravel, and space to get away, if they are allowed to roam a bit. Space to imagine a life for themselves rather than try to fit into someone else's schema for what it means to be a person/student/boy from a rocky homelife. Rocky as in jagged like you mentioned.
Posted by Lak on October 1, 2011 at 11:48 pm | permalink |
Awesome post Valerie! And that's why I think homeschooling is pretty much a bad idea…kids pick up the crazies that parents don't even know they have!! Don't put all your eggs in one basket…
And holy cow, I have never experienced abuse…but looks brutal. I imagine absuers/abused actually like the drama and that's why they do it. Seriously, just stop pounding on each other. I had neighbors like this once and they were just annoying – no kids involved so I didn't care/wouldn't help. Don't want to be sucked into the vortex of mental illness…
Posted by Pattyboulder on October 2, 2011 at 3:01 pm | permalink |
Awesome post Valerie! And that's why I think homeschooling is pretty much a bad idea…kids pick up the crazies that parents don't even know they have!! Don't put all your eggs in one basket…
And holy cow, I have never experienced abuse…but looks brutal. I imagine absuers/abused actually like the drama and that's why they do it. Seriously, just stop pounding on each other. I had neighbors like this once and they were just annoying – no kids involved so I didn't care/wouldn't help. Don't want to be sucked into the vortex of mental illness…
Posted by Pattyboulder on October 2, 2011 at 3:01 pm | permalink |
I don't think anyone likes the drama of abuse. But I do think it's perpetuated by those who have experienced it because that what they know. It is very very difficult to break out of that cycle, because you essentially have to learn new skills, skills that were probably never modeled for you. And it is incredibly difficult to break old habits and old patterns of behaviour, especially if they have been bred into you since you were a child. It's not impossible though it takes an enormous amount of work. The power of transcendence, truly is the greatest that one can employ.
Posted by Valerie on October 2, 2011 at 6:39 pm | permalink |
Agree on the homeschooling. I think it is a bad idea to isolate the kids from a society of their peers, to be stuck all day at home, especially if it is a dysfunctional home. I really believe the children who went to good day-care programs turn out to be the most socially well adjusted members of society. Sure, the public schools have gang influences and all, but they also have all the normal things that schools have always had, extracurricular programs, friends. People who home school their kids are afraid of something. I have heard many times from victims of dysfunctional homes that their work was their escape to normalcy, and they dreaded going home. Same goes for school.
Posted by Anonymous on October 3, 2011 at 10:43 pm | permalink |
I read your blog for the perspicacity you display regarding career questions, for the social media connectedness (or whatever you want to call it) with regards to others blogging in the same arena AND because I too have Asbergers and have to navigate both career and relationships in a similar manner to you. So I like the personal stories, but if you left them off the table, I'd still read for your cogent thoughts on career questions.
Btw, I don't see what you've written about the Farmer to be domestic violence (which I define as one person controlling another via violence or the threat of violence so that the victim modifies their behavior purely to avoid the violence) but rather as a situation of the Farmer still not understanding what Asbergers means and being pushed to the brink of frustration and acting out on it. Right now my husband is deployed and is not communicating with me. This is the result of an argument we had before he left that I caused based upon long-standing issues he originally instigated. He's tired of it. He's tired of being frustrated with me, tired of never really understanding … which is likely where your Farmer is. No matter what I do, how I try and control myself, I wear people out with those things about my personality that will never go away. My husband expresses being worn out by completely shutting down communicating with me. Sounds like the Farmer does it by pushing you away physically.
That said, if one shove is your personal deal breaker then so be it. In that aspect it doesn't matter how it's categorized (e.g. domestic violence, frustration, accident).
There's a book I'm finding helpful. Too good to leave/too bad to stay. It poses a series of questions that gets you away from the pro/con lists and helps you recognize if what you have is worth saving or if it would truly be better to leave. You might find it thought provoking.
Thank you for your blog and how upfront & honest you are. It's a godsend for me.
Posted by Blondedogwood on October 1, 2011 at 5:02 pm | permalink |
Wow!!! I guess some people think they know Pelelope (California Dreaming) — Do you? If not you might keep your trap shut. (RUBBISH he/she said)
I think maybe you shouldn't wait til the next time, Penelope. You have places to stay, it sounds like. Does the farmer know about you blogging about this yet? If not what if he finds out. How violent will he get next time? Maybe the next time is murder (literally). Or maybe California Dreaming does know you. I am not one to say. I don't know you. Either if you are staying or just lying …. you are only hurting yourself and possibly your children.
Posted by Krista Geisel Belk on October 1, 2011 at 6:24 pm | permalink |
I know that is harsh. But, SERIOUSLY…. I assuming your are not the fibber that California Dreaming is talking about so rubbishly… 30 days is not long. One day at a time is not hard as the 12 steppers do it.
Posted by Krista Geisel Belk on October 1, 2011 at 6:33 pm | permalink |
I know that is harsh. But, SERIOUSLY…. I assuming your are not the fibber that California Dreaming is talking about so rubbishly… 30 days is not long. One day at a time is not hard as the 12 steppers do it.
Posted by Krista Geisel Belk on October 1, 2011 at 6:33 pm | permalink |
I think so many women have been in similar situations unfortunately. Having an abusive father makes it difficult for you to relate to men honestly or naturally because your previous learned patterns are so abnormal. Frankly, I think you should move out because the next time will be worse. Unfortunately, you are part of the problem too. Suggestion, find the real Adrienne Roston, the happy one, what makes you happy – find it. Don't rely on men to make you happy. Forget your father and dysfunctional family. Find yourself, what makes you happy.
Posted by Brittany345 on October 1, 2011 at 6:34 pm | permalink |
I think so many women have been in similar situations unfortunately. Having an abusive father makes it difficult for you to relate to men honestly or naturally because your previous learned patterns are so abnormal. Frankly, I think you should move out because the next time will be worse. Unfortunately, you are part of the problem too. Suggestion, find the real Adrienne Roston, the happy one, what makes you happy – find it. Don't rely on men to make you happy. Forget your father and dysfunctional family. Find yourself, what makes you happy.
Posted by Brittany345 on October 1, 2011 at 6:34 pm | permalink |
I'm only an occasional visitor to this blog. I haven't read the entire blog although it wouldn't matter if I did read it all. In your Asperger-y way, you seem to be crowdsourcing a solution to your problem, and so we are free to judge. I suspect your solution isn't in the comments, but in your own quest to find the truth.
Not one commentor on here knows the whole story. You (PT) probably don't know the Farmer's story and he probably doesn't know yours. It takes years and years and years to really get to know someone.
Based on what you have written, it is easy to make judgements about you because you given us plenty of data to do so. All the data isn't there, however.
For some, it is easy to judge the Farmer because they see themselves in a situation like you and the Farmer. But no one here knows the real story of you or the Farmer.
Some commentors believe that physical violence is some sort of line in the sand that you never cross and if your spouse does cross that line, then you should leave and that's it, time to start the next chapter of your life. That's simplistic. Of course, at some point lines must be drawn. Where is that line when it comes to emotional violence? Just because you can't see it doesn't mean there is no such line.
Emotional violence can be more insidious than physical violence. I'm not saying that it is in this situation. It may not exist at all in this case; I don't know. It's all bad, though.
Often, the physical violence manifests itself because the attacker is incapable (without help) of dealing with the issues in the emotional realm.
Sometimes, the battle is fought on the emotional front because that's where it is most effective, or because the attacker knows physical violence would be ineffective.
Get help for yourselves so you can fight the good fight at each other's side instead of fighting each other. Be careful in selecting a counselor. I suggest you each understand the counselor's core philosophy and are on board with it. Get help for yourselves separately, also.The first step is coming to honest terms with yourself. Godspeed.
P.S. You may have opened Pandora's box by writing about this publicly. I hope the two of you are able to maintain some control of the situation. The government is all too happy to take important decisions out of your hands. Don't help them do it; the damage to your kids may be worse and it will certainly be out of your control.
Posted by Guest on October 1, 2011 at 7:37 pm | permalink |
Well said.
Posted by Penny Rene on October 2, 2011 at 12:43 am | permalink |
I've been thinking along these lines too. Although physical violence is certainly bad, it's almost like because it's so clear (like you say, a definable line in the sand) that it gets more "credit" than emotional violence.
When I was young people said "Sticks and stones can break your bones but words can never hurt you." This was supposed to be a comfort or defense when school bullies made one's life miserable by taunting. Now it seems that people have realized this isn't true when it comes to school, and emotional violence ("names") is being taken seriously. But somehow in grown-up relationships (or at least in the comments here), it's back to the "sticks and stones" philosophy.
I think both are bad, but the verbal/emotional kind can almost be more insidious.
Like you say though, we only have one person's take on the situation.
Posted by Pen on October 2, 2011 at 1:09 am | permalink |
I've often thought about the damage the old "Sticks and Stones" axiom has wreaked upon our understanding of emotional reality. Now we have kids being tormented on-line, as well as in person, many of them turning to suicide as a solution. We know more about bullying because of the internet, but at the same time, the internet has made it impossible for kids to escape it. I don't see a solution on the horizon, especially since it is the preferred method of political discourse by the extremists who have infiltrated our government offices.
Posted by Anonymous on October 2, 2011 at 5:19 pm | permalink |
I think you have raised an important point that seems to be lost on many of the posters here: that emotional abuse is also extremely damaging to individuals and family members. And it can go on for much longer than physical abuse. It's harder quantify, easier to hide. I actually think that we have somehow been conditioned to accept the emotional stuff, but at the first hint of a physical confrontation, all guns start blazing. In a way, moving from the emotional to the physical brings the dysfunction out of the closet and forces all parties to recognize the reality of the relationship. No solution is possible until this recognition takes place. Of course, we have all heard the definition of insanity.
Posted by Anonymous on October 2, 2011 at 5:01 pm | permalink |
I think you have raised an important point that seems to be lost on many of the posters here: that emotional abuse is also extremely damaging to individuals and family members. And it can go on for much longer than physical abuse. It's harder quantify, easier to hide. I actually think that we have somehow been conditioned to accept the emotional stuff, but at the first hint of a physical confrontation, all guns start blazing. In a way, moving from the emotional to the physical brings the dysfunction out of the closet and forces all parties to recognize the reality of the relationship. No solution is possible until this recognition takes place. Of course, we have all heard the definition of insanity.
Posted by Anonymous on October 2, 2011 at 5:01 pm | permalink |
I like you Penelope but you're a big, big handful and the farmer cannot handle it. You'll need to go for yourself and the kids and the farmer.
Posted by Trish on October 1, 2011 at 7:55 pm | permalink |
I like you Penelope but you're a big, big handful and the farmer cannot handle it. You'll need to go for yourself and the kids and the farmer.
Posted by Trish on October 1, 2011 at 7:55 pm | permalink |
Dear Penelope,
I have an impression that you like doing research. Why not do research on domestic abusive and how women managed to get away from it? Learning how other people dealt with these problems can help you form a strategy to move in a direction that is correct for you and along the way do the usual mistakes and learn from them.
Whatever way your life goes, I appreciate your blog and what you share of your life and knowledge.
Posted by Helene K on October 1, 2011 at 8:15 pm | permalink |
Penelope, HURRAY! It is so great to hear that you have a plan to get out and stay safe. Next time, you will leave.
Please ignore the pathological assholes who have found their way into your comments and are blaming you for the abuse or criticizing your decisions. The only reason for anyone to view your situation in this way is because they are abusers themselves. Their opinions don't count.
Please DO take comfort in the more-numerous comments supporting you, encouraging you to leave for your own and your kids' sake, and affirming that YOU ARE NOT CRAZY–not making this up, not overreacting, and not to blame for it. Look at all these people who have rallied around you. We all believe you and are on your side and want to see you in a better situation. Good luck!!!
Posted by andrea on October 1, 2011 at 9:10 pm | permalink |
Why do you think it's wise to pick sides in something you know almost nothing about?
Posted by Guest on October 1, 2011 at 9:36 pm | permalink |
self hatred is hard on relationships because there's someone else to reaffirm that hatred. you hate yourself and think – can i get someone to confirm that i'm not good enough? most people can probably confirm this for you if you try hard enough. this is not the same thing as being abusive or being to blame for the abuse you get.
the abuser also has a similar part and wants to find someone who will help make this part visible so he can prove to himself that it's as bad as he thinks. but then he can always turn it around – it was that other person who made it visible – and it's only when it's visible that we know that it's there. if he could be alone. no one would have to see that side of him.
intimacy is the opposite. so in order to get to intimacy there's got to be something you love about yourself and you want to experience that with someone else. most relationships have both but ones that have more intimacy are better for both people. both people have to really focus on finding and sharing the parts of themselves they love without fear of rejection.
Posted by emily on October 1, 2011 at 11:05 pm | permalink |
Your reasons for trying to make your family work are worthwhile. If you can get through this in a healthy way it will be a great series of lessons for your kids.
You remind me of my wife in that you have multiple issues that stress all of your relationships. When she and I were close to a breaking point, like you are now, I decided that I would continue to work on our relationship because I would rather have an interesting/stimulating wife with all the issues than either nothing or some boring relationship. This was about fifteen years ago. We have been together 25 years now with two great kids who have seen us work stuff out.
Here's the kicker: counseling was marginally helpful but the real difference maker was medication. Her anxiety/eating disorder issues were only truly helped with a trial and error approach to finding the right medication and dosages. Her effort in this area was so incredible given her fear of being poisoned by bad meds.
I hope you can find a way to make it all work whichever path you choose.
Posted by The Rancher on October 1, 2011 at 11:18 pm | permalink |
Love this reply. I like that you stayed because she was interesting and stimulating. Medication requires a lot of patience because no one knows what will help so you have to be courageous enough to trust that a solution will be found.
Posted by Kathy Berman on October 2, 2011 at 1:26 am | permalink |
My thoughts/comment on this are the same as when your wrote about breaking the lamp during a fight. You seem to be a very selfish person who latched onto the farmer, not because you loved him, but for what you could give you. In this post, you don't say you are staying because you love him, you are staying for what he can conintue to give you. You think it's great that your kids have someone they can call "Dad", which seems really odd, since they do have a Dad they spend every Sunday with. I wonder what they call him? What kind of altered reality
are you trying to piece together? You talk about how important honesty is, but it seems like your personal life is nothing but a facade. Isn't that the kind of stuff that really screws kids up? I agree with California Deaming, put the kids back in school. Spending time away from your house of mirrors will only benefit them. I don't see how they could ever function in the real world after being cloistered in your crazy world of fantasy.
This may sound harsh but I'm not saying this to be hurtful, just truthful.
Posted by Jpaul001 on October 2, 2011 at 12:23 am | permalink |
Just quoting you….
In this seminal study, Judith Wallerstein tracked a large sample of children of divorce for 25 years. And she found that unless there is violence in the home, kids suffer more from parents getting a divorce than staying in a bad marriage.
So u end the marriage that did not have violence in the relationship and stay with the one who does. STRANGE!
Posted by Kahlie on October 2, 2011 at 1:18 am | permalink |
Just quoting you….
In this seminal study, Judith Wallerstein tracked a large sample of children of divorce for 25 years. And she found that unless there is violence in the home, kids suffer more from parents getting a divorce than staying in a bad marriage.
So u end the marriage that did not have violence in the relationship and stay with the one who does. STRANGE!
Posted by Kahlie on October 2, 2011 at 1:18 am | permalink |
I've been reading your blog for 6+ months, and keep coming back for the sick attracttion of watching a crazy stranger from a safe distance. For the entire time I've wondered why the Farmer would agree to be written about in your blog – has he ever ACTUALLY agreed to that, or did you just steamroller over him and do it? You say you don't do intimacy – no sh!t, Sherlock! Writing a public blog about your marriage issues is a KEY symptom of the problem … which is: 1) that you know NO sense of boundaries whatsoever, and 2) you are desperate for ATTENTION of ANY kind, including the kind that comes from total strangers like me who can't stop watching the insanity play out. The Farmer was likely a normal, reasonably well adjusted guy before your insanity intruded on his previosuly tranquil life. One doesn't get much experience with your exotic strain of wackiness in rural Wisconsin, so your VERY strong / relentless personality has ground him down and now he snapped. I AM NOT IN ANY WAY CONDONING HIS VIOLENCE (if indeed it happened) … I'm merely saying that SOMETHING caused him to snap, and based on what I've read on your blog over the past 6+ months I sincerely and with great sensitivity must suggest that there's a reasonable chance that YOU were that "something". Get help girl … and PLEASE be willing to LISTEN to your therapist and the Farmer. God bless you all.
Posted by Davers6 on October 2, 2011 at 2:38 am | permalink |
Humans are hard wired to be attracted to what shows disinterest in them. If man's disinterest is the essence of heroine's attraction to him, man's abuse is even more harder to resist. Success stories from men who show nothing but love are rare. But like a virus that thrives at the expense of its host, eventually it destroys its host & dies with it.
The farmer is going to kill you. There's not much therapy, honesty, or faith can do about it. Every week, another wife is killed by her husband & it's this exact same story. Copyright 2011, all right's reserved, Penelope Trunk. They don't often hit the news, but it's not much of a jump from your current situation to murder. There will be no more Trunk blog. Everything you wrote about feminism being bad & women domesticating themselves will be refuted when your own preaching kills you.
Posted by heroine worshiper on October 2, 2011 at 2:51 am | permalink |
"The farmer is going to kill you. There's not much therapy, honesty, or faith can do about it." Are you kidding me. I am far more fearful for the farmer's life than hers.
Posted by alwaysshocked on October 2, 2011 at 4:46 pm | permalink |
Humans are hard wired to be attracted to what shows disinterest in them. If man's disinterest is the essence of heroine's attraction to him, man's abuse is even more harder to resist. Success stories from men who show nothing but love are rare. But like a virus that thrives at the expense of its host, eventually it destroys its host & dies with it.
The farmer is going to kill you. There's not much therapy, honesty, or faith can do about it. Every week, another wife is killed by her husband & it's this exact same story. Copyright 2011, all right's reserved, Penelope Trunk. They don't often hit the news, but it's not much of a jump from your current situation to murder. There will be no more Trunk blog. Everything you wrote about feminism being bad & women domesticating themselves will be refuted when your own preaching kills you.
Posted by heroine worshiper on October 2, 2011 at 2:51 am | permalink |
Penelope-
750,000 page views this month branding the Farmer as a wife-beating abusive husband.
Hundreds of anonymous clueless commenters projecting their pain and fears onto your situation.
Your life isn't a Kickstarter project. Five bucks of advice from each person isn't going to tell you if you should stop or go.
Good thing the Farmer is self employed; you've made it so if he ever tried to get a job he'd be fucked.
I still enjoy your writing. Good luck Penelope.
Posted by Garrett on October 2, 2011 at 4:59 am | permalink |
In your previous blog entrry, it's titled "This is me battling imposter syndrome." Yes, you are an imposter, fraud, liar, charlatan, phony, sham, pretender, and fake. All through your blog are references to how hot you are, how much oral sex you're getting and how brilliant, insightful, influential and powerful a woman you are. How's all that hotness and oral sex working. But you've faked almost everything else in your life, your supposed marriage that isn't even legally recognized, your supposed Asperger Syndrome that has no supporting diagnosis, even your supposed enterprenurial acumen.
And here's why you're an imposter, fraud, liar, charlatan, phony, sham and fake. For all your talk about happiness and achievement, you can't even guarantee your own safety or that of your sons. And because of that, all your fakery is exposed, and you've got a bag filled with nothing.
And if you can't even keep yourself and your sons safe and secure, any kind of advice beyond that is just a bunch of noise and hot air.
Posted by Awiz8 on October 2, 2011 at 5:12 am | permalink |
One more thing…
After years of working in the field, one thing that really stands out to me is how physical abuse seems to be in this special category – like that's the only kind that matters. In some ways, I think that's the easiest to deal with, because it's the most visible, the easiest to name. I think that's why so many people say that pushing and shoving is where they would draw the line. There is a whole slew of things that happens before the physical violence, and it's just as valid. The physical violence is a symptom, it's not the whole problem. Emotional abuse is so much harder to identify, name, and address, and can have such an enormous impact on individuals. It's not useful or constructive, in my opinion, to scale any kind of abuse as more valid or invalid than the other. That's why it bugs me that people think there's this obvious indicator of when one should leave, and that the indicator is any kind of physical violence, including shoving and pushing. As if everything is fine as long as that's not present.
Posted by Valerie on October 2, 2011 at 6:00 am | permalink |
One more thing…
After years of working in the field, one thing that really stands out to me is how physical abuse seems to be in this special category – like that's the only kind that matters. In some ways, I think that's the easiest to deal with, because it's the most visible, the easiest to name. I think that's why so many people say that pushing and shoving is where they would draw the line. There is a whole slew of things that happens before the physical violence, and it's just as valid. The physical violence is a symptom, it's not the whole problem. Emotional abuse is so much harder to identify, name, and address, and can have such an enormous impact on individuals. It's not useful or constructive, in my opinion, to scale any kind of abuse as more valid or invalid than the other. That's why it bugs me that people think there's this obvious indicator of when one should leave, and that the indicator is any kind of physical violence, including shoving and pushing. As if everything is fine as long as that's not present.
Posted by Valerie on October 2, 2011 at 6:00 am | permalink |
Respect. I firmly believe its about respect. If both you and the farmer will take time to respect one another, then you'll find a path to happiness (and interestingness too; I believe you can have both).
Best of luck.
Posted by Anonymous on October 2, 2011 at 11:35 am | permalink |
You can make a fresh start. I think you really should, for your sake and for the sake of you kids. First, cut your father out of your life. Your friends will be better family than this abuser. He is toxic, a bad man who gave up any claim to be a part of your life when he did what he did.
Leave the farm, leave the farmer.You are not happy there. Your kids are probably miserable too. Don't go back to New York, but go somewhere where you can make a new life that is at neither extreme: a city, but a smaller one than New York and one where you can make new memories.
Stop homeschooling your children. Now. Forever. You're not the person who will teach them what they really need to learn. In order for them to be successful, fully socialized people they need to be in school. Who gives a crap if they're not getting enough "learning" in the sense of information. We forget that stuff anyways. Get them to read in their spare time is where those gaps can be filled. What they won't forget (and what they are learning in school) is to interact with other people: learning social skills, learning to be strong. Stop sheltering them. It's just going to make them weaker and incapable of weathering storms later in life.
Many of us who are writing to you have felt stuck, trapped in a life that is painful. You are freer than you think. We all are. Be brave. Be strong. Leave.
Posted by Heather on October 2, 2011 at 2:15 pm | permalink |
I've read this blog fairly consistently for over a year now. I am alternately admiring or shocked/worried that this is the life you are living with your kids, depending on how you slant it. This shows me what a serious manipulator you truly are. I clearly remember a post a year or so ago where you wrote about The Pioneer Woman and how you envied her life/blog. I am very concerned for your mental health-you are an abuser. I'd like to hear from your Mom/Dad/exhusband/business partners, on this. The real reason I and many people read this blog is because it is so titilatious. You are truly out there. There is no telling what sordid, crazy, criminal liberties you'll take with other peoples or your own reputation. Who can stop you? No one; and and that's why a lot of us read you!
However, I don't think this will end well. Good luck to your poor kids.
Posted by alwaysshocked on October 2, 2011 at 4:07 pm | permalink |
I don't think that titilatious is a word. Titillating?
Posted by Hazel on October 5, 2011 at 4:06 pm | permalink |
I don't think that titilatious is a word. Titillating?
Posted by Hazel on October 5, 2011 at 4:06 pm | permalink |
I read the last 2 blogs and some of the 500 or so comments.
I wouldn't call the Farmer abusive. Reading between the lines of your blogs, I perceive that he just doesn't know how to deal with the emotional abuse you dish out, and he ends up reacting inappropriately.
You get in his face and won't stop, and you don't let him get away. He pushes you away and you contrive to fall down. Or he backs you into a corner and gets in your face the way you got in his. He literally does not know how to respond to your misbehavior, and he only makes it worse. Meanwhile you deliberately hurt yourself (breaking a lamp over your own head, for instance) and write a drama-queen blog about how you left the broken glass on the floor.
Your life is already a mess and you are wrecking his and your sons' lives.
(1) Leave him. You aren't legally married, and there's no compelling reason not to. He will have some bad weeks, maybe months, but he'll be much better off in the end.
(2) Go back to the big city. You are always whining about how the country is an inferior environment anyway.
(3) For their sakes and yours, send your sons to school so they can get away from your craziness for part of the day.
Posted by Jim C. on October 2, 2011 at 5:11 pm | permalink |
There is never an excuse to be violent towards another person. EVER. No one can push you to be that angry unless you allow yourself permission to cross that line. Touching someone in anger is unacceptable.
Posted by Brandon on October 3, 2011 at 1:23 pm | permalink |
That is not true. Some people need a spanking, It's the only thing that they will understand.
Posted by Ap23 on October 3, 2011 at 9:11 pm | permalink |
Pushing somebody away is not necessarily violence. Pushing hard enough to cause injury is violence, but defending your own personal space isn't. Cornering someone and yelling isn't violence; it's futile, and it's counterproductive, but it isn't violence.
Posted by Jim C. on October 4, 2011 at 9:33 pm | permalink |
What Brandon said.
"Reading between the lines of your blogs, I perceive that he just
doesn't know how to deal with the emotional abuse you dish out, and he
ends up reacting inappropriately."
Reacting inappropriately in this case happens to be physical abuse. Let's call it what it is.
Posted by Valerie on October 3, 2011 at 4:52 pm | permalink |
I read the last 2 blogs and some of the 500 or so comments.
I wouldn't call the Farmer abusive. Reading between the lines of your blogs, I perceive that he just doesn't know how to deal with the emotional abuse you dish out, and he ends up reacting inappropriately.
You get in his face and won't stop, and you don't let him get away. He pushes you away and you contrive to fall down. Or he backs you into a corner and gets in your face the way you got in his. He literally does not know how to respond to your misbehavior, and he only makes it worse. Meanwhile you deliberately hurt yourself (breaking a lamp over your own head, for instance) and write a drama-queen blog about how you left the broken glass on the floor.
Your life is already a mess and you are wrecking his and your sons' lives.
(1) Leave him. You aren't legally married, and there's no compelling reason not to. He will have some bad weeks, maybe months, but he'll be much better off in the end.
(2) Go back to the big city. You are always whining about how the country is an inferior environment anyway.
(3) For their sakes and yours, send your sons to school so they can get away from your craziness for part of the day.
Posted by Jim C. on October 2, 2011 at 5:11 pm | permalink |
Hi Penelope, I wish you all the courage and insight to make the best decision for you. Whatever you truly want. Yes, relationships and situations aren't so cut and dry, so maybe it's a good time to take it slow, lie low, and let the answers come to you. Operate from your heart. Connect with your heart in meditation. They say love heals everything. That love's the answer to everything.
You teach us things from your situations and struggles. And I love the gems you have hidden in your posts, where, if we really hear, can change our lives. Thank you for always caring. Your honesty and vulnerability is truly a lesson and a blessing to behold.
We don't want you to hurt. Hope you feel better. Who knows, where all this will lead. Sometimes, it's the beginning of the end of the road of this phase and sometimes, just a bend in the road. Every situation has gold to be mined if we can really humble ourselves and not look from the ego's viewpoint.
I am glad you have others to talk to and places to live in to should the situation arise. Please stay in touch with your close friends. I hope peace prevails (and is already prevailing). You are a very strong person Penelope is what I feel. Your hubby has seen beauty in you to have made the decision to be with you. Hope you both re-kindle that. And follow your inner calling. If you feel it IS best for you to leave the situation, the person, this phase behind and move on, then you should do so. And only you will know when that time has come. Always know you deserve peace and respect. Every human being deserves that. Leaving or any other decision might not be easy when we aren't fully ready… but I believe the right time comes. That tipping point.
I wish you and your family all the love and peace. Am not sure if this was too simplistic and unhelpful, but wanted to share my thoughts..
Love you Penelope!
Posted by A reader.. on October 2, 2011 at 5:30 pm | permalink |
The problem IS that the kids call him dad. Kids will learn how to model their behavior from the same sex parent. The situation needs to change…however you decide to make it change. They are learning from the farmer how to treat the future women in their life.
Posted by Roslindrose on October 2, 2011 at 6:52 pm | permalink |
What do you think they are learning from their mother?
Posted by Guest on October 2, 2011 at 8:49 pm | permalink |
Dear Penelope
Yes, this is a shocking post; not because the Farmer hurt you, or because you have chosen to stay, but because you are honest about it in a way that makes us feel uncomfortable and defies social conventions. In society, it is socially acceptable to openly discuss domestic violence if one aheres to the mantra, YOU MUST LEAVE. Does this acknowledge the struggle that many women go through in trying to determine the best path for themselves and their children…. and for their husband who they probably still love? Unconditional love for a husband who is abusive, or love for the idea of family even when seriously flawed is something that we often feel needs to be hidden. I applaud you for your honesty; even when it means that it makes others very uncomfortable or even hate you.
Penelope, I respect and admire you. Those who are writing about how you are a horrible person might be screaming so loud as to block out their inner voice that is whispering how they are not so very different from you.
Posted by Athena on October 2, 2011 at 11:17 pm | permalink |
Wow, a huge proportion of people who have responded to your domestic violence posts seem to be misogynistic, judgmental assholes.
Just wanted to say that I'm sorry you're going through this, and good luck with everything.
Posted by Abstractioness on October 3, 2011 at 3:06 am | permalink |
Penelope, I have been thinking a lot about your problem and worrying for you. I keep thinking that your reluctance to leave the Farmer is related to your "Happy vs. Interesting" choice that you have faced in your life outside the home. I was going through a rough time awhile back and decided to go the therapy. I never would have spent the money to work on my own, but a a mom, I didn't think I had a choice. It did show.
My problems were work related. I thought I was having trouble coping with some workplace enemies. It took help to realize that my problems stemmed from my interactions with my workplace friends, my defenders. I was abused as a child (more emotionally than anything else) from an extremely demanding father who really was doing the best he could. I knew our family was different, but at the time I thought it was because we were better than everyone else, that our parents loved us more. It wasn't really abuse, because even though friends and teachers and strangers offered or threatened to call child protective services, no one ever actually called them. See how that works?
I love my father, but I married a man his personality opposite. I thought I'd dodged a bullet, not realizing that I had created a work situation with a supervisor over many years that mirrored that of my childhood – overeager to please, unfailingly loyal, devastated at the thought of failure. It took professional help for me to open my eyes to the fact that this supervisor, far from protecting me, had manipulated me into sacrificing my own career to help his. I thought the problem was our "mutual" enemies. I remember trying to explain to my therapist after many visits who "the bad guys" were in my story, and she kept getting confused and asking questions, and how horrifying it was to me when I realized what had happened. At least an emotionally abusive father was, for better or worse, doing what he thought was best for me.
When I read your happy vs. interesting post, all I could think about was my messed up work situation. I had done what made me happy–relied on the manipulative and domineering older male authority figure–to my detriment. While it didn't make me "happy" (the opposite), it was comfortable and satisfying. I hated my life, but I knew what to do and where I belonged. The relationship pattern fit so comfortably, I never even felt it. I didn't see it.
I think that is your problem with the farmer. I think you are doing what feels familiar and satisfying. And it certainly is satisfying. I don't think anyone ever enjoys breaking a cycle of abuse. I purposefully and specifically married someone with the opposite personality of my father. I could never imagine him doing the things my father did to me with our daughter. And you know what? He drives me CRAZY. When I'm not thinking about it specifically, or when I'm stressed out about other things, I interpret his personality as disengaged. If I'm having a problem and he's not screaming at me telling me what to do and that I'm stupid for not doing it, I feel like he doesn't care. And then I take a breath, and remind myself that I married him because he would never do that to me and that really I don't want him to. And then I thank God for sending him to me, and for letting me love him and letting him love me. He puts up with my occasional insane neediness, and I work on reducing the frequency of the attacks, and we bump along very, very well. We have been together for 14 years now (married 7, I don't like to rush), but that is because we've worked at it. And the rewards have been so, so, so incredible. Definitely worth the work.
But it's never easy. It's never flawless, and it never "fits." It's always work. He is my guiding light. But in the darkest, quietest nights, I have to consciously keep my thoughts away from a vague dissatisfaction and loneliness. I know that there's no one else for me, so there is no point in dwelling on anything other than what I have. But his puzzle piece doesn't interlock exactly with mine. I've got voids that he can never fill. But the person who could fill in those holes is not someone I would want to know. Certainly it's not someone who is good for me. I think everyone who is abused will have those voids. But I think that people who break the cycle do so because they able live with the voids.
To build an interesting life on a swiss-cheese foundation is challenging. And I think a lot of people can't do it. But it's more interesting and better and more interesting than repeating the same sad pattern of satisfying misery.
Posted by anonymous for this one on October 3, 2011 at 5:31 am | permalink |
This is it, exactly. This is what the people on here who never experienced abuse early in their life from a loved one will never understand, and the people who have understand all too well.
You look for what you know. You're going to have those voids, as you so eloquently put it, that need to be filled by what you logically know is bad behavior. It feels, despite all the knowing-better in the world, that you need it. This is why cycles are practically genetic- and why it is so hard to break the pattern in your own life.
I think the only way you get to go free is to settle for what is always going to feel a little off to you. You settle for something that feels imperfect and not right and tenuous and slightly frightening. I don't know that enough time will make the off-ness go away. Maybe you just accept that healthy will always feel a little wrong.
But it's a damn sight better than repeating the cycle.
I think Penelope thinks this is all very interesting, and she'd rather be interesting than boring. It's a bad situation because do you really want your kids growing up thinking they'd rather be interesting than boring?
Interesting seems to involve moving every five minutes, being obsessed with being smarter than everyone around you because everyone around you is more emotionally competent than you are, lying through your teeth about half the time, and getting people to hit you with farm machinery. This is not a good interesting to grow up preferring.
It's obvious why Penelope prefers it. And it's obvious how she can change to make life better for herself and her kids. And it's obvious she doesn't want to.
Posted by Valerie on October 3, 2011 at 4:49 pm | permalink |
Hi Penelope, I've never experienced what you have, but one of your posts really resonated with me recently where you talked about motivation and 'if…then' statements. Maybe you need an 'if…then' statement for yourself?
This isn't advice on what you should do as only you can make those kinds of decisions. I hope that your counselling is helping you both, and you get the support you all need.
With compassion
L.
Posted by LW on October 3, 2011 at 12:42 pm | permalink |
PT wrote on this blog 1/6/10 "But here's the farmer's dilemma: He is fascinated with the idea of living an honest life. And he loves watching me do it, but he's horrified to realize that there are a million versions of every story, and the person with the big blog audience gets extra weight for her story."
Posted by alwaysshocked on October 3, 2011 at 12:48 pm | permalink |
For insight on how PT thinks: 1/6/10 this blog——-"Do you read The Pioneer Woman? I love her blog. I love her blog so much that I told my designer he should make me her blog.
He said, "You don't want her blog. It's huge. It probably takes five full-time people to run that blog."
I said, "No. I do want her blog."
He said, "I think you want her life."
The Pioneer Woman does have a great life. Every guy in the photos on that blog is on a horse or about to get on a horse, and all the men are hot. Their rear ends poke out of chaps. Everywhere. And their tough, gritty faces suggest they'd ravish me in bed.
Sure I want that blog, and that life.
I also love how that The Pioneer Woman never, never never disrespects her guy. The Marlboro Man. That's his name. He's always studly, sexy, kind, fun.
The farmer is that, too, but there are issues. He's not studly when we're having a fight. The problem is that I'm drawn to writing about the fights, and the Pioneer Woman is drawn to writing about pies, and feeding the Marlboro Man.
I am a great cook. But this is not the sort of thing that would go over well on this blog. I'm the kind of cook that understands principles of food so I don't ever use a recipe. But I'm not drawn to tell you how to make pot roast perfectly as a precursor to cowboy sex. I'm more drawn to tell you that I experimented with fruit in stew and accidentally used bad wine, and to fix it I laced it with brown sugar. And it's not just that the farmer wouldn't eat it, but neither would the farm cats, who will eat almost anything in winter.
I want to put a recipe of that. The worst stew ever. With grass-finished beef, of course. Because the farmer gets a full cow butchered and then stores it in his freezer. And before he knew me he used to turn everything into microwaved hamburger, but now he brings me gifts of frozen cuts of grass-finished beef that I defrost over days and turn into dinners to wow him.
The secret, really, to amazing cooking with beef is to spend a lot of money on ingredients and then do almost nothing to them. The farmer did not know this until he was with a city girl who will spend $5.00 on a bag of spinach.
4. Try to look at the positive side of things; people like optimists.I digress. Sort of. Not really, though. Because what I'm telling you is that what would be perfect is if I could be the Pioneer Woman and only tell you good things about me and the farmer.
But what about that she's living on a family-owned ranch that is a business, and surely, she had to sign a prenup? Surely her in-laws are nuts over the possibility that their son gets run over by a stampede and she inherits his part of the ranch and marries a different guy with a tight ass in flowing chaps and gives her share of the ranch to him?
What about that? Was there discussion?
Is there discussion over that she has so much traffic on her blog that surely she earns more money than the Marlboro Man? This is not easy stuff to deal with. But there is nothing about that.
Unfortunately, for me, the world loves reading the Pioneer Woman. And so do I. She's upbeat and her site is gorgeous, and no kidding: the minute the farmer broke off my engagement I started thinking there's gotta be a guy on her ranch who's right for me.
But I am drawn to write about only the hard things."
Posted by alwaysshocked on October 3, 2011 at 12:55 pm | permalink |
Penelope, you say that being honest is a top priority.
But your stark (brazen?) honesty is also a need, even a compulsion, that you have.
Others (like the Farmer perhaps?) value putting their heads down and thinking about it, and
working it through BEFORE they can analyze it with words.
You, you are different. Maybe it is a part of being an Aspie, or just being as smart as you are, and gifted with words.
No excuses.
You are now with a partner who has a different style than yours. You cannot force him to talk/analyze as much as you would like, as much as you DO.
Go ahead. Say what you need to say. Hope for eye contact, but don't hope for him to match your degree of verbal analysis. Hope for him to get back to you after he has had time to think about things.
You can tell him what you need, but you cannot force him to give it to you. He is loving you by his own definition of love, not your definition. That is the way it is for all of us who are in intimate relationships.
It is a sad day if/when he is not loving you (and you are not loving him) at all. Hope that it has not gotten this far, or if it has, that you can resurrect the loving.
The fights and mutual abuse are symptoms–only that. If these symptoms point to a real loss of love, then, indeed, you should mutually call it off before something really bad happens.
Posted by Chris K on October 3, 2011 at 1:18 pm | permalink |
Go. Please go, Penelope.
Posted by Brandon on October 3, 2011 at 1:19 pm | permalink |
Leaving, one simple 2 syllable word that is bigger than Mt. Everest. You know that if you typed in "staying for the children" and read peoples blogs you would become infuriated with their nonsense, but that isn't the point. The reality is that you love the farmer and your kids love the farmer and love even more the idea of being a family. I didn't grow up in an abusive household and I don't have an abusive lover but I am still stubborn, passive aggressive and can withhold with the best of them. Being afraid that you have failed in your marriage is not a reason to stay married. If you and the farmer are pushing each other into ugly places you never wanted to see of yourselves and you are both becoming people you despise (not that you would admit this to each other because it is easier to blame the other person) then that is where you start. That is what you work on. Stop pushing yourself to be that person you hate, even thought it feels good for a moment to leave the meat out of dinner on purpose. By putting it in, you are not giving in, you are not showing that you love him, you are showing yourself that there are bigger obstacles to overcome for you. That you don't need to create petty arguments with yourself, you need to write a list (people love lists remember) of all the feelings you have right now, all of the restrictions and separate it out what is yours and what is his. Work on your "stuff." At some point if he doesn't work on his "stuff" you will be leaving, leaving him in the dust.
In regards to being pushed, shoved, emotionally abused or otherwise, you don't want your children to ever think that is ok and I haven't read all of the comments but I am sure that is what most of them should say if they don't. But that is the part that makes sense to you. It is how you get to that point that is the difficult part. It is how they see you come out of this that will truly form who they are as men.
Posted by Danielle on October 3, 2011 at 2:38 pm | permalink |
Pen,
If you had three quarter of a million page views, then the many people reading your business blog are such regular readers they are invested, and are so invested that they were moved to comment and tell other people who looked, and are so invested that they returned multiple times to the page because they couldn't look away. That investment in you takes nothing away from your business acumen. But really, when you put your life out there, are you really so entrenched in your magic land that you think people will ignore the personal and focus on what you say about resume writing?
I stayed for years thinking I couldn't do the parenting thing alone. Guess what? I can. It's hard, but I found over time that with all the static of worrying about When will it happen again? and How damaged is my kid? and What if someone finds out? and Another relationship failure?, I was worn out. So when I actually left and got sorted, it was easier in some way. Some things you do know: that typically when it gets to twice a week therapy, it's already over; there are few bad people, but lots of adult bad combinations; having someone to fight with is still having someone.
Think about this: Take care of yourself, take care of your boys, get out, and take care your business. Best of luck. Be glad you have a bolt hole.
Posted by RI on October 3, 2011 at 2:44 pm | permalink |
I wish I had the magic words to convince you to do what you think is right. Based on what I've read, you want to protect you sons. Honorable indeed. But as you found out they already know, they are being effected by the current situation. So the question is…you want to protect them from what? Growing up in an unhealthy relationship? Kids only know what they see…..is that what you want your sons to know? I don't think so. Your too good a Mom for that. You are too good a person for that.
I read you blog not because I need career advice, but because I like you and what you stand for. We r here for you and want to see you move forward with your sons. So what if you raise them alone. Better to raise emotionally healthy boys than to let them grow up and continue the cycle.
I like the "30-day trial" idea. I think you do to.
Posted by Laura on October 3, 2011 at 3:36 pm | permalink |
Therapy is great. Even when it seems like nothing is happening you are changing. I was surprised how much it helped me deal with my emotions constructively. It is good you are not in denial anymore about your problems with the farmer.
Posted by guest on October 3, 2011 at 5:21 pm | permalink |
Instead of putting so much emphasis on what you will do in case the farmer shoves you again, i think you'd be very well served to figure out how you will change the role you have previously played in escalating arguments to that level of intensity.
Whether you leave him or not, wherever you go, there you are. So your focus really needs to be on you.
Posted by Jennifer B on October 3, 2011 at 6:30 pm | permalink |
Look lady, grow some self esteem along with your vegetables and get your ass out.
Posted by Jowza on October 4, 2011 at 1:11 am | permalink |
Penelope, I just caught up with your blog and don't have time to read all the comments, but I'd like to offer you my support for whatever you decide to do with your life by sharing my story. Will that help you feel better–to realize that you aren't alone in your struggles?
Over Labor Day weekend I got punched in the face and head about 8 times by someone I didn't think would ever be violent (even though everyone I know had warned me to be afraid). Two black eyes and some bumps on the head. I had to be convinced to go to court for a restraining order, mostly for myself so I wouldn't forgive and forget and go back. As someone who's been attacked at gun point by a stranger, I agree with your statement that domestic violence is more difficult to respond to than regular violence.
I was married for a long time to someone who was angry and sometimes verbally abusive but mostly not violent (he broke furniture and probably pushed me one time in the 27 years we were together, as we were heading toward divorce). I'd hoped to show through a new person that I wasn't the bad mother, wife, woman he'd said I was, but ended up in an even worse situation.
To me, the desire and experience of intimacy is fraught with extremes of love and loathing. I want recognition of my shadow self–so I reveal it to those I'm most intimate with. But I also want love and admiration to outweigh what ever human badness I reveal. "Here I am covered in shit and useless, please love me." Finding someone who will witness one's true self and not coddle or enable it, but respond actively without abuse is a huge challenge. Your blogging shows that you aren't the type to settle for surface level polite co-existence and also that you can be difficult to co-exist with and you know it.
I'm not one for hard and fast rules or labels. The conventional wisdom seems to be that anytime a man uses physical force against a woman he is a batterer and she is a victim. I'm not sure that model is useful, but I see through my sons that when people fight often it is hard for the person with the physical advantage not to ever use it. So if someone is actively engaged with you in a negative way and they have more power and strength, you are going to lose, unless there is a referee around to enforce some rules.
I've been told that my problem is that I always want to win. I probably choose to play high stakes games with the odds stacked against me because I'm attracted to a big payoff. I can see some of this in you, but might just be projecting.
Posted by Becky on October 4, 2011 at 6:37 pm | permalink |
Thanks for the follow up post to let us know how you are doing. The twice a week meetings will give everyone opportunities to try new solutions, many of the new ideas will make life better and that will be nice for all of you. Good, good, good! Keep it iterative!
Posted by Wickergarden on October 4, 2011 at 7:59 pm | permalink |
Penelope, my opinion for what its worth….
I think you should stay. Why? Because clearly your unwillingness to let go (no matter your history) says there is something here worth fighting for. And I think fighting for your kids to have a father leaves me in awe of you. Because so many people in this society take commitment so fucking lightly and discard the role of father's too easily. As if its some meaningless factor in a child's life. ( And yup as child raised by a single father I am extremely bias as to the importance of that role and having witness the fucked-upness of friends raised without one. I wouldn't trade a father for 10 mothers)…
Everybody here is screaming LEAVE as if its some kind of real solution. Its not. You will be miserable without love. (And don't tell me the Farmer doesn't love her. What he's doing to her is not love. But I understand that while I may hate the person's actions that doesn't keep me from loving them. And if you want to dispute that think about what being a parent means. We do shit every single day that we pray our love ones will forgive us for and continue to love us. If that's not true then love is not true and if that's the case we all truly fucked). (And for you Bible thumper's what about the infamous verse "love endure's all things" all about… just cookies and milk huh, not the tough stuff of love… or the for better for worst part???
Being single is not the happy, happy joy joy experience situation comedies on television will have you believe. So fuck anyone who tells you different. They are lying to you and/or themselves. So stay, stay because agonizing over to go or not go is a waste of energy. You will KNOW when to go. One day you'll wake up and you won't even think about it – you'll get your kids you'll get whatever shit you need and you'll go. It"ll be that easy as all decisions are that have that kind of certainty are. The only reason its hard now is because you want to stay and think your wrong for wanting to stay. So be brave enough to say FUCK YOU ALL I'M STAYING….
Yes things are hard now but nothing last forever and the one of the best pieces of advice I ever got was: Human beings can put up with anything, we just can't do it forever. So you'll now when you and the farmer's forever ends. This is your life, this is the hand you were dealt. ALL OF IT. The abuse from your father, your marriages, your kids, your issues, etc. ITS YOURS, OWN IT and DO WHATEVER THE FUCK YOU WANT TO DO WITH IT TO GET WHAT THE FUCK YOU WANT. This is your life and while it may make everyone here feel good to say "oh my god, this is horrible, get out", fuck all of us because everyone here if they had the guts you've shown would confess to something equally bad that they're refusing to let go of too.
I was raised in an abusive home (and save all your shit comments about its warped my thinking, blah blah blah I need therapy (which I did thank you very much) the cold hard facts is that the abuse isn't everyday, every minute, every hour, 24/7. There are moments, hours, days, weeks, months of great joy, laughter, calm, peace, love, togetherness, optimism, warmth, and everything else that's good in this world and makes life worth living. My mother got out when those moments became less and less, and when my father refused to get help. My father wasn't a monster for hitting my Mom, hell more often than not she hit back. They tried to make their relationship work and when it did it was awesome and when it didn't she got out. And fucking 25 years later they've remained each others best friends. Even as my father was getting remarried it was my mother he called for comfort about his cancer scare, with every big or small event in his life. As they came to see they were meant to be friends, lovers even (they were a passionate bunch) but not married.
As for your kids- I can only give you my story. When my mom left my dad she explained why she was leaving and we (my 3 siblings) understood. She asked who we wanted to live with, we choose my dad. My parents never blamed the other for their issues – it was always together we don't work. So we kids learned to look for a spouse where "together" the relationship works. Their were no villains in our story because we weren't raised with this tv fucking hollywood frame of mind – good guys win the day bad guys are evil and should be punished. Just cold, hard reality – that our parents were people who weren't given some fucking book with life answers. They were just two people doing the best they could and doing what we all have to do which is to figure it out. Whatever that means for you and you alone.
I say be honest with your kids, never, ever lie to them (we always know what's going on and if we resent anything its being lied to)… and when you can't put up with it any longer leave. And leave with grace and dignity (like my mother) not making the farmer the bad guy to your kids because then it makes us kids feel like shit for loving him or having to choose sides. Your kids will understand and they'll definitely understand and appreciate what you did more when they're adults having having their own romantic relationships, and trying to figure it out when things get hard..
Posted by Simone... on October 4, 2011 at 10:04 pm | permalink |
I think you need to put the kids back in school. If your own life is, by your own description, dysfunctional, then you don't want to be their only role model. Home schooling might be great and all, but only if you know that you are setting them a good example.
Posted by Caitlin on October 5, 2011 at 12:40 am | permalink |
I think you need to put the kids back in school. If your own life is, by your own description, dysfunctional, then you don't want to be their only role model. Home schooling might be great and all, but only if you know that you are setting them a good example.
Posted by Caitlin on October 5, 2011 at 12:40 am | permalink |
I came to your blog because I loved how you tried your best to help Steve figure things out.
http://www.endingthegrind.com/etg-podcast-22-penelope-trunk-calls-bullshit/#comment-4052
I didn't expect to be wowed when I got here. But I was. And I was even more wowed that you allowed California Dreaming's comment to stand. That takes certain, brazen toughness. As this is my first visit here, I don't if California Dreaming is on to something. But, again, the fact that you can live with such open criticism is proof that you are unafraid of honesty.
I look forward to getting to reading more.
Best regards,
Stan Faryna
Recently on my blog: The Final Speech of the Great Dictator by Sir Charles Chaplin http://wp.me/pbg0R-qG
Posted by Stan Faryna on October 5, 2011 at 8:58 am | permalink |
.Betty Blue.
Posted by J on October 6, 2011 at 12:15 am | permalink |
You murdered the cat. You torture your sons, poor Melissa, your ex and The Farmer. You claim you father abused you, then you brag about his daring late life choices. You blatantly brag about not paying your taxes……and being a scion of The Mafia………if my son got hooked up with a woman such as you, I would just have to laugh! You would both be insane!
But you stories, while being mostly entertaining, have too much incongruence to ring true!
Posted by MikeS on October 7, 2011 at 4:31 pm | permalink |
As a wife that becomes emotionally abusive (for various reasons) I know how easy it is to push a man into physical abuse. You are dealing with your own unique challenges, but I wanted to say that not every abuse situation is the same or ends the same. We aren't all going to be featured on "Cops". We wont all end up in a women's shelter. We wont all leave the men we are with. But as a woman who does tend to push her husband towards loosing control, I just wanted to tell you I understand that side of it, hope that more HEALTHY people come into your life, and that you all continue to learn and grow to become a healthier family unit.
Posted by md on October 9, 2011 at 3:50 am | permalink |
As a wife that becomes emotionally abusive (for various reasons) I know how easy it is to push a man into physical abuse. You are dealing with your own unique challenges, but I wanted to say that not every abuse situation is the same or ends the same. We aren't all going to be featured on "Cops". We wont all end up in a women's shelter. We wont all leave the men we are with. But as a woman who does tend to push her husband towards loosing control, I just wanted to tell you I understand that side of it, hope that more HEALTHY people come into your life, and that you all continue to learn and grow to become a healthier family unit.
Posted by md on October 9, 2011 at 3:50 am | permalink |
How long has it been since you read this post?
http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2008/06/27/how-i-started-taming-my-workaholic-tendencies/
If you think that you'd still make that drive, then you know what to decide. If not, then start looking for other options.
Posted by Lak on October 9, 2011 at 6:01 am | permalink |
How long has it been since you read this post?
http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2008/06/27/how-i-started-taming-my-workaholic-tendencies/
If you think that you'd still make that drive, then you know what to decide. If not, then start looking for other options.
Posted by Lak on October 9, 2011 at 6:01 am | permalink |
I bet you are a royal pain in the ass to live with, and I'm sure you could possibly even be mentally ill. Even with both of these things, he had NO RIGHT to lay one god damned hand on you. Having been in your shoes for almost 9 years, I will tell you that it will NOT get better, there will always be a next time etc. I'm 41, my spine is that of an 80 year old woman. I have to have my neck vertebrae fused together. This means I will never turn my head. I can never go again to disneyland with my son, or someday grandchildren–rollercoaster could make me a quad. This is all because I didn't leave him, I kept making excuses—I lied, I made him mad etc.
So your children care for him, but they will have NO respect for you, because you stayed and allowed them to grow up in a house of abuse. It's better to be on your own, loving them and giving them stability then to stay because you need a man. YOU, are fucking Penelpe Trunk, you don't need a man!
I would like to offer you my guest room for you and your boys. I can help pay for bus/train tickets to get you out here. LEAVE, now.
Posted by Michele on October 9, 2011 at 10:23 pm | permalink |
I bet you are a royal pain in the ass to live with, and I'm sure you could possibly even be mentally ill. Even with both of these things, he had NO RIGHT to lay one god damned hand on you. Having been in your shoes for almost 9 years, I will tell you that it will NOT get better, there will always be a next time etc. I'm 41, my spine is that of an 80 year old woman. I have to have my neck vertebrae fused together. This means I will never turn my head. I can never go again to disneyland with my son, or someday grandchildren–rollercoaster could make me a quad. This is all because I didn't leave him, I kept making excuses—I lied, I made him mad etc.
So your children care for him, but they will have NO respect for you, because you stayed and allowed them to grow up in a house of abuse. It's better to be on your own, loving them and giving them stability then to stay because you need a man. YOU, are fucking Penelpe Trunk, you don't need a man!
I would like to offer you my guest room for you and your boys. I can help pay for bus/train tickets to get you out here. LEAVE, now.
Posted by Michele on October 9, 2011 at 10:23 pm | permalink |
You know what young asshole husbands and young crazy people turn into when they are middle agged and oid? Asshole husbands and old crazy people. You guessed it. They don't suddlenly turn into supportative spouses. They are the same assholes they always were. The baggage, resentment, cruelty, and all the other landmines of unhappy relationships remain. Sometimes, that is all that remains.
When you are older, is the farmer going to turn into an angel and treat you like a person? Or is he going to still try to mow you down with the tractor, albeit at a more cockeyed aim or slower pace. Are you still going to be crashing your furninshings and lamps like the three stooges?
The outcome of dysfunctional relationships is ugly. My parents hated each other, and the outcome was my father collaspsing in the back of the house from a massize stroke, an hour after my mother refused to take him to the hospital for his escrusiating leg pain. She was watching a dog show on TV. This was a month after he suffered a first, mild stroke. 65 years of ugly fighting, Grown children in theraphy. And the inevitable end.
You dont want this for yourself. Or your kids. You dont have to make a big deal out of leaving. Just calmly have a talk with him. GEt help to pack and move. And get back on track to raising your kids and having a career. AS a child of an abusive parent relationship I would love to save your boys from a very sad fate.
Posted by Reneenanna on October 10, 2011 at 11:16 pm | permalink |
You are trying to describe the "natural, logical consequences". Of the many sad things written here, I find your story profoundly sad. I hope everybody involved has forgiven and grown wiser.
Posted by Chris K on October 11, 2011 at 1:28 am | permalink |
You are trying to describe the "natural, logical consequences". Of the many sad things written here, I find your story profoundly sad. I hope everybody involved has forgiven and grown wiser.
Posted by Chris K on October 11, 2011 at 1:28 am | permalink |
A lot of the comments to this and to the previous post throw around the term "abuser" and "abuse" quite carelessly. Violence is never ok, but I don't think it's possible to form a clear picture of the abusive relationships in PT's case on the basis of what she has reported.
I worked for a time as an advocate for survivors of domestic violence and sexual assault. We were called whenever the police responded to a DV call and someone was arrested. Usually the batterer was arrested, but sometimes the victim was arrested, and we would visit the victim in jail. (Most, but not all, of the victims were women.) Why would a victim be taken to jail? Because the victim, in this instance, retaliated violentlyâshoving, hitting, throwing a chair, whatever. I repeat: violent behavior is never ok. But the use of violence does not automatically make one an abuser; it's not always accurate to describe violence as abuse. A battered woman can hit back at times and remain the victim, not the batterer. Domestic violence has to do with much more than physical violence: it is a complex web of power and control, and emotional abuse, isolation, manipulation, humiliation, and physical violence all play a part.
I don't claim to know how to describe the situation with PT and the Farmer. But it's much too easy, and false, to say "Any instance of violence means that he's an abuser." From what PT has posted, which seems truthful but not the whole truth, it seems like there is destructive and inexcusable behavior emanating from both sides.
It sounds like an extremely unhealthy situation, and one that is currently, already, damaging the boys, and will continue to do so unless radical action is taken. Bad situations tend not to resolve themselves spontaneously. Hoping that they will is not a responsible plan.
Get help. Lots of of people on here have offered good advice. Put them in school; get a psychiatrist; get the boys therapy; get their father more involved; get sane, loving, non-abusive family and friends to play a greater role in their lives.
Posted by E. on October 14, 2011 at 5:44 am | permalink |
Very unintended publish as I'm working to find out the right specifics of about lines. Thanks considerably for posting plus i faith to have quite a bit far more reviews for this kind of topic.
http://forexcatapultreview.org/
Posted by Casey Stubbs on October 17, 2011 at 5:27 am | permalink |