I was, for most of my 20's, a talented and serious bass player. I gigged, I was recognized by peers, etc. Yet I was aware that I was not in the class of best of best: Pastorius, etc. Many of the sidemen I played with were shocked when I steered towards the tech career I had building. I saw the younger competition graduating from Berkley, Julliard, Eastman, even the self-taught. These young guys and gals, very competent bassists, were already taking up 5 string instruments and new techniques.

Many of the younger musicians were willing to live hand to mouth as I had. I also at that point had had my fill of starving session to session, gig to gig. I never got negative feedback on my talent; I just knew that I was just outside the echelon of the super talented, lucky, or whatever, to convert the career as a bass player with well over 10 years on the road and in the studio and nightclubs.

I had started at 13, seriously taking lessons, attending music camp, was accepted to Berkley ( took a road gig at that crucial moment).

I was making a living as a bass player and paying my modest, single man's bills. 25 years later, I ask some of my old compatriots who are still in the business – all making the same for a gig as they did in 1979-88, I ask, "how do you do it, the sacrifice, the starving the lack of income predictability?"

Mind the answer, they are all talented and now older journeyman musicians and still work often, "We don't know how to do anything else."

This is their trade. They have been faithful, I took a professional path in tech (which now looks about as unsettled).

Great points; they all seem right. Except the art = sex thing. Sex is only appreciated/consumed/experienced by the 2 people having it, whereas most artists have quite grander expectations for the size of the audience for their art, right?

(Unless you just mean that you have sex for yourself, and should be doing your art for yourself too, in which case I'd agree. There's nothing worse than an artist trying to make the world a more beautiful for us slobs.)

Penelope – It's great that you are posting more often. The quality of your posts have gone up a lot in the last couple weeks. I really enjoy your point of view and I have recommended your blog to quite a few people.

But you forget that art is an industry. It isn't about indulging your inner desire for self expression, but about engaging with critical ideas that inform the culture, and participating in the development of those ideas. I agree with the fact that you can't make good art while you are starving – you can't do anything while you are starving. The fact that people bring up the subject of starvation in relation to artists so often is just a cliche. Art plays a crucial role and is frequently misunderstood as something 'extra', something 'personal'. It is neither. Art is thinking with materials.

Many great points to ponder. Most artists I've known can't hold a job because they are so preoccupied with their art. But, one exception to this was my father, who was a brilliant poet. (I know what you're thinking – all of you -that every poet is brilliant. But, you don't understand. My father is that brilliant poet that one day you're children will study in comp i and ii. He was Roethke-brilliant; Poe-brilliant. He worked by the sweat of his brow most of his life – in the Navy on ships. He was an atomic veteran. He worked in the god-forsaken metals industry. He strapped trailors in brutal winters and for awhile assessed property and assigned taxes. His life was hard, but he never, ever gave up on his art and he never quit making it and he was driven by something bigger than himself – something that was not intimidated or the least bit derailed by all his crappy jobs, which he took, by the way, so all his kids could eat. Forgive the indulgence, but, thank you Dad, for making the poetry *and* still having the sense and sanity to go to work everyday.

Interesting post! As a colleague of mine in the illustration field has pointed out, art schools need to teach their students that they're not going out into the world to be artists, but entrepreneurs. Working artists don't need to suffer for their art, but they do need to know how to market their work, make connections and relate to their clients with professionalism and maturity.

I LOVE the part about bringing your art and creativity to your job. You're right. If you are truly creative, you are already doing this.

We need to be less afraid to use our own ideas to innovate in our jobs. If your job description hasn't changed to include your own ideas and you are mad about it, do something about it. Complaining doesn't help. Get better at selling your art –> To your boss.

This is something my generation seems to reject rather than embrace. We want to seperate our lives so much, it is stupid, really. Who I am, I am in my job and outside of it. And I use the knowledge I've earned for myself in my job. That's what experience is, after all. All of it relates if I choose to let it. Whether from my college degree or things I do online for my own "personal brand" or jobs I've had in the past. All this helps me be more creative and better at my job – IF I choose to apply it that way. It's my choice.

Lots of great points but I can't agree with the art=sex comparison. Art takes a lot more time than sex if you're really an artist and feel the need to create all the time. If you only need a few hours than sure or on weekends then a regular job works. If not, make art into your career in any way you can even if you have to go from a regular job or a part time job and cut down til you can afford to make a living off your art.

One of my favorite writers once said the key to writing a best selling novel is to have a job that doesn't require much mental energy but pays the bills. That way you had the psychic energy to go home and write. (Think you're too busy to do both?)

This post reminded me of the character in Amadeus — Sebailleus (spell?) — the one who believes he's brilliant … until he comes to know Mozart.

I think you're trying to spell 'Sibelius' but he was a much later, Finnish composer.

The character you're referring to in 'Amadeus' is Anton Salieri.

Penelope, thanks for the mention. I'm the Community Manager over at UpMo. Great commentary on networking as an artist. I think of my father who's a fairly well-known painter and the Chair of the Art Department at the University of Minnesota. Great networker and likable gentleman, and his sales reflect that even in the current economic downturn. I'd attribute a lot of his success to his genuine commitment to serve and not just take from his network. That quality helps build meaningful relationships and advocates who will support you in your career. I definitely encourage your readers to take UpMo's Network Readiness Evaluator and our Beta for a free spin.

I am truly horrified that you actually consider what you do art. I usually do not see much value in the blogs you have but, I read them in hopes of a little more understanding of things I do not understand. In my book being an Artist sets you apart form the average person. It bestows a title upon you that indicated that you have a talent that can touch people hearts, make them laugh cry, think, etc. You my dear are more like Shawn Hannity. You do not seem to have any great talent just a knack. Sometimes a little funny, inflammatory, bad girl, etc. You do not bring anything to the table that has worth. You are just slightly entertaining.

"I am truly horrified that you actually consider what you do art. I usually do not see much value in the blogs you have but, I read them in hopes of a little more understanding of things I do not understand."

That's bullshit, James. You read this blog because you get off on being an online bully. If you sought therapy, you'd find other, healthier ways of sublimating the fact that you got beat up a lot when you were 8 years old.

Honestly, many of us got beat up a lot when we were 8. Really. There's no shame in it.

Who's Shawn Hannity? I'm familiar with a Sean Hannity.

Good post about "being real" and realistic all at once.

NO WAY! That dude is just jaded…I came from a school of artist who are BANKING out doing the exactly what they love. To give you an example, just from my graduating class, of people that I know personally, there are graphic designers, fine artists (yes fine artists), and illustrators working at (just to name a few more well know names)….

American Greetings
Cartoon Network
CNN
NBA Entertainment
Orlando Magic
Pfizer
The CIA
Toys 'R' Us
Trader Joes

And if you think your a bit tecky, I know computer animation students working at Disney, Pixar, Warner Brothers Digital…. the list goes on and on

Then if you get into Interior Design well you pick any major architectural firm in the world and guess who is a pivotal part of their staff…..Or to start you own firm like Kurt did. Kurt lives upstairs from our office in a 5 million dollar flat and drives a 2009 Bentley…

Every corporation and every small business needs branding (graphic design), most every major corporation, hospital, school and government institution has in house interior designers on staff, ever major cartoon in the past 10 has been animated digitally, every corporate web page has been designed. Every TV show and movie created has a creative director, set designer, costume designer ect…

In a world that is communicating increasingly by images via TV and internet, the need for artist and designer has NEVER BEEN GREATER! I mean when else in history could you go to target and buy a designer toilet brush and guess what someone is getting paid to design it.

My point is that if you want to be in a creative field there are a
PLETHORA of opportunities out there, more now than ever before but it is just like any other field, you have to work hard and be good at what you do and you’ll be fine!!!
the only way to fulfill the starving artist is if your
a.) lazy as hell
or
b.) really don’t care about money and therefore don't work to seek out one of the billions of opportunities in this world for creative people.

You had more than just a narrator. The way I recall it, Penelope, is you would write about what happened to you the week before, and the rest of us in the writing program would try to figure out which "character" each of us were. But they were good stories nonetheless, especially the dialog. I still miss getting new ones.

so P how come you at bagels when you were dirt poor … here in Australia one bagel costs the same as a loaf of bread …. are we the centre of a great bagel rip off ??

at my worse finacial postion – $40 a week – I ate breadfast cereal – dry – for dinner – lasted about six months …. am pretty much off bfast cereal now … 24 years later …

and James you silly billy writting is art :) der !! le

@John: you're right, P's posts are exceedingly memorable and 'on' lately, and I think it has to do with the frequency. She's in a groove.

@rah: being in writing workshops after work gives me a reason to get through the day, so I know how you feel about your music. 80% of the time my job is fine, but my life would not be as full without writing around the edges.

@James: please link to YOUR blog, on which you post at least twice a week. Writing well is an art.

For all the writers out there: my writing instructor just gave me a book – after my most recent rejection slip – called Letters to a Fiction Writer. Wonderful for perspective when you're tearing your hair out, and an homage to the effort of writing as a 'hobby'.

Penelope's post was pitch-perfect.

This post is so general I could I could wallow in "What's in the fridge" for weeks. You make no mention of learning to be a good coppyist, that starving promotes creativity and inventivness, that living in rural areas(nature) gets people to where they want to be without creating yet gives the inspiration to do so. What about mental health? What is the most common myth about art? That you have to be a bit off to be an artist. Yes I have said life is about creating yet dare I add that art is about creating life.
How about mentioning that all of the technology,media and
well written blogs that scare the livin daylights out of people -that they could ever create at all. That learning about raw materials and their use is elemental to good design. Are you saying art is worth trading for sex?
Given the above rantings I predict this to be one of your most posted blogs… How do you do it? I'm a big critical fan.

"So if you think you're an artist and you are not making art now, but you think that in the right circumstance you'd make art, you are lying to yourself. I'm sorry. But it's true. Unless you are starving. If you are starving, see point number one: You need to get a job."

What about if you've made art in the past, you'll make it in the future, and you're not making it right now? There's not a single paradigm that fits the makeup of all 'artists'.

"Don't tell me it's crushing your soul. This whole blog is about how your soul does not depend on your job or your boss or your paycheck. Click on some links and read them."

Your soul may not depend on your job (as in, it can be supplied from other sources); and you may be able to change jobs. But it does not follow that your job cannot be crushing your soul.

"Also, most corporate jobs can be creative outlets because businesses solve problems."

Are you implying that artists solve problems?

"You are not a better artist if you can do it full time."

While I agree that the fact that you are 'making art' full-time does not mean that you are a better artist, it remains true that practice improves your work, and if you're making art full-time, you're getting a lot more practice time in.

"I don't want to see snooty comments on this post about how great you are for being able to support yourself with your art. Because I can do that too."

This whole post strikes me as a product of some kind of unmentioned personal insult.

"The days of discovering someone with a sawed-off ear in an insane asylum are over."

In what way are they over?

"Make art [...] Because you think you will die if you don't do it."

Is this the only way art can be formed? Why not make art for other reasons? Or are you perhaps exercising a bit of hyperbole here?

So true, I was always told to do something sensible not be artistic especially as I couldnt draw this was good advice. Unfortunately I ended up as an economist…

Oh my god. A blog entitled "Brazen Careerist" attempting to make some sort of statement about art, and how to be an artist?????? Artists are not careerists. They are the exact opposite of careerists.

And you're so wrong. Yes, people need food and shelter–that's quite obvious, but many of our greatest writers and painters were living on the very margins of society and the farthest thing from affluent.

And the way in which you talk about "art" — that vagueness — points to the fact that you really don't know anything about "art" at all.

I love it.
Thanks for reminding us about how sweet this place is—I'm happy because I just landed here not long ago.

Dave

Its so true that you have to be more than just good at your art. I have seen so many people mystified at their lack of success as they have amazing talent, but can't talk to a stranger to increase interest and ultimately sales.

I have to point out I also know an artist who does manage to avoid paying for anything. He has the cheapest rent in town and the biggest tax bill hanging over him.

Art is my form of relaxation. If I don't do it, I'm not going to get anything else done. That's just life, and I'm lovin' it.

Thanks for the boost…………….:)

So, let's say you're only spending only 1.5% of your time on your art. Are you really an artist? Yes, if you have EVER produced art, and even if you get really busy and never produce another thing, I believe you are still an artist.
However, I question a person's commitment to his art if he is complaining about not having enough time for it but is still watching every episode of CSI in all its forms? I believe that passionate artists produce some kind of art on a regular basis, not just once in a while when the "mood" hits? I am concerned by those who say that they need more than what they have to produce anything.

Creative people work their art into their lives somehow.
Even if it just in responding to posts on a blog.

To comment on point #3: I think your assumption that real artists will make art no matter what is flawed. I think most art requires at least some sort of inspiration. Have you ever tried writing right after a broken heart (I read you were divorced)? I'm sure the words didn't have any problem spilling out.

I would be guilty if I said I hadn't toyed with the idea of moving to a studio somewhere in New York and trying to pursuing the dream. Living off of cigarettes and wine, throwing paint around until something eventually looks good enough to pass as "Modern" to earn enough money until next month.

Maybe, this romantic idea of becoming a starving artist is a result of a lot of great artists before them dying poor, but having their work considered genius after death. Or something like that.

I'm not entirely sure if anyone has said this yet because I didn't feel like reading the other posts. Also, I think I my argument got somewhat lost in there.

ps. How old are you? Didn't say on your page and I was just curious.

For anyone who's reading down this far and is still interested in this topic. I'll give you my $.02.

I'm not sure what the median age of the reader of this specific post is. Outside of regular readers – I would guess that the primary readers are a. people who are out of undergrad – working a day job and are here because someone forwarded a link of encouragement or b. people who have artistic pasts (and presents) and balance that with another income. This post is more for those of you who are recently out of college, facing massive debt and doubt – because I've been there myself.

This will probably be a long post, but I am putting it here, because this is information that would have helped me immensely after school, and perhaps it will help you.

In music, the specific example that is often given of this balance is the American composer Charles Ives. Ives lived in musical obscurity at the beginning of the 20th century and wrote some of the most challenging music imaginable. While little of it was played in his lifetime, Ives would go on to become one of the most influential composers of the 20th century. Aside from his musical work, he was also the vice president of an insurance agency and continued to write and work for much of his life. Add the fact that very few people recognized the genius of his work during his lifetime, that much of his music was never played an you have a classic story of artistic struggle.

Until you read any one of his biographies and get to the part of his life where one night he came down the stairs of his home crying and said, "I can't do this anymore." For the last 20 years of his life, he never wrote another note of music.

While this blog has some really solid advice, the one thing that is inferred, but not said explicitly is that art takes time. There are technical skills required to create any kind of art – and the maintenance and advancement of those skills takes concentrated and focused time. The core question at work here seems to be "What are my priorities?"

A temporary diversion – one thing to consider in an arts education – formal or informal – is that many artists focus on the "how" of their art but not the "why". The importance of this issue can not be overstated. If you have a solid understanding of why you do the things you do, then the issue of how will be more easily resolved.

As an example of priorities, if you find that you're spending more time at the bar with friends then you are working on your art – your priorities are telling you something. For some people, this is merely an issue of time management. But for some people their priorities are out of whack with their perception of reality.

If your concept of why you create art is clear, then a day job is nothing more than a vehicle for income while you work on your art, and the challenge is in utilizing the elements of the day job that work for you.

I will use a personal example. Please realize that I am a very self-depreciating person so anything that I write about myself is stated as factual and not self-aggrandizing.

I am an instrumentalist. I attended prestigious art schools at both the undergraduate and the graduate level. I have performed on both American and world premiers of guitar literature, have national and international tours under my belt and have performed with some of the best musicians on the planet. In short, I'm not a clown or a hack. I know what I'm doing.

Several years ago, I was several years out of my undergrad school and playing a GB (General Business – like a cover band) gig. You see, the thing about making money playing music, is that most of the gigs that pay – are gigs like this one. While you will run in circles with people who can't play their way out of a paper bag, you will also find extraordinary musicians with major credentials playing at the same crappy bar as you because – it's a paying gig.

So in this story were playing cheesy music I loathed in some dive restaurant in the middle of nowhere for people who didn't care. At this point in my life, I was completely despondent. I was working a day job for benefits and to pay off my school loan, and doing this gig on weekends to keep my chops up and I just felt awful. It suddenly occurred to me, "Wait a minute. Why do I feel this way? The whole reason I started playing music was because it felt good, and now every time I pick up my instrument I just feel bad. I don't EVER want to feel this way when I play music."

And so I quit. I figured that I would work hard, pay off my school debt and do something else with my life. But the things in life that are important to you stay inside of you, even in their absence. It took a while, but I started realizing that the things that were causing me such pain was the fact that I had lost my connection to my instrument. I couldn't quit music – because music had become an integral part of who I was. I could get rid of music no more than I could get rid of my skin.

So I kept my job. And then got one that paid better. I played in a lot of local bands that paid nothing, but because I had a day job IT DIDN'T MATTER that it paid nothing. I played the music, because I enjoyed the music. I decided that, for me, the best balance would be teaching music in a college environment. Teaching was something that I did well. It allowed me to give back to beginning musicians and it would give me the flexibility to pursue my music on my own terms. To do this, I needed a master's degree. I worked hard, and got a scholarship to a well regarded school on the opposite coast of where I lived. I got my degree this past May. I got another gig and another day job to pay bills and now keep sending out resumes and working towards that goal. Was going to grad school in my mid 30's an easy thing to do? Not at all. It was a culture shock and a calculated gamble. But it was necessary for what I wanted to do in the long run.

So I can't say, "don't waste your money on grad school". Even though I had a scholarship, and was working – I still had to take out loans to cover the difference. My advice is if you DO go to grad school have a VERY clear idea of what it is you want to do with that degree.

I'm married, so also realize that my priorities are different than they were 20 years ago. If someone came up to me at 17 and said, "Hey we have a rock band and we're going on tour. We have no idea about money or food or where we'll sleep but you will be able to play in front of people every night for the next couple of months." there's no question I would have gone. But once you start working with issues like rent, and bills – money becomes an issue. Once you start waking up on strange people's floors to the house pet eating its own vomit several inches away from your face – accommodations start to become more of an issue.

I could get a cruise ship gig and make enough money to pay bills. But I know now that that type of gig is not for me. Many of the paying opportunities that come to an artist will require doing things that you might not want to do. If you understand the WHY of what you do, those issues will be easier for you to grasp.

One final observation along this issue of why. Realize that some people are artists and some are artisans. And here's how I make that distinction.

To me an artisan is a person with a high technical skill set who enjoys the physical activity associated with that skill. For example, my mom is a tolle painter. She would be perfectly happy to paint the same items over and over again – because she enjoys the act of painting. As a musician friend of mine said, "I don't care what I play – I just want to play the guitar."

An artist by contrast is someone who enjoys the physical activity associated with creation. To the artist, painting the same flower over and over is an anathema to their existence. The WHY of their art is based in discovery.

I don't know if this helps any of you. I have strong feelings about this because I've been able to do both for a while and am finally moving towards being able to synthesize the two.

If you can walk away from this post with only one piece of advice – try this one: Life is a marathon and not a 50 yard dash. There will be times that you want to give up, times that is goes easy and times of incredible difficulty – but know that if you have the long term goals in sight – that will be what keeps you going. If you go into a marathon with a 50 yard dash mentality you're going to crack at the first real hardship. As Bukowski once said, "Endurance is more important than the truth."

Good luck. Be your own critic. Be your own cheering section. Be aware where your perception is myopic and never give up.

-Scott

Scott, I just want to say thank you so much for your inspiring words. I really needed to hear them today.

Hi Mia,

Glad it helped.

I was watching the end of a marathon on TV once and I saw that one of the contestants had soiled themselves right before the finish line. Just remember, in any contest the winner is often the last person standing and not how much elegance they exhibit in struggle.

In life, the things that are important to us are the things that we do. If your art is important to you – you'll find a way to make it – even if the compromises you have to make are messy.

If possible though, try not to soil yourself.

Good luck!

I'm late to this post but glad I found it. You put it very well Penelope. I expected to hate this post and I didn't.

@jrandom Thanks for the Harry Chapin, a magician himself, he says it very well here…
"Music was his life, it was not his livelihood,
and it made him feel so happy and it made him feel so good.
And he sang from his heart and he sang from his soul.
(And) he did not know how well he sang; It just made him whole."
I need to go find my Chapin collection and relisten. I could use some comfort in this economy.

There is something I think this list assumes, though, and that is the idea that a career of art-making is often both desirable and possible. I completely agree that it isn't necessary, and that people who truly need to make art need to evaluate if it is really vital they do it as a profession or not. But the fact is that doing great art takes a time commitment that is hard to do if you also have a full-time career. I think the bigger problem I tend to see among artists is their attitude about art as a BUSINESS. It is all too often part of the 'artist counter culture' mentality to buy into the idea that it's cool NOT to be a good business person and that to be one is selling out as an artist. This is crap. If you want to make a living as an artist, you MUST be both. Making a business of your art is often MORE work than having a regular career and making art purely as food for your soul and psyche, but for some people that type of success — just like those of us who make a career out of tech startups — is necessary in order to feel accomplished in their art. That's fine, but they need to recognize that success as an artist requires understanding the business of art, and that's a whole different skill set than the art-making. And if you can't or do not want to do that part of it then, yes, follow Penelope's advice and do it out of love around a day job.

What is Art? Art is a window washer.

No offense Penelope, but where was this kind of content when you wrote over at Yahoo? I'm shocked that this is coming from the same person. This is an insightful, even-handed post that includes great advice and some great philosophizing.

Awesome. Can't wait to see more.

Basquiat's life a crack house horror film?

Give me a break. You don't know anything about Basquiat then. Pick up a book and do some research. He was raised by decent, middle class people, in a good neighborhood. Lived on the streets for a very little time before making it.

He always had a place to go. Always had friends.

His work deals with hatian voodoo and the economic times, not crack.

Please respect the artist, don't just use him as folly for your lame points.

Ari

Thank You.

Kevin! I just found Cool Cake Photography… Your site IS art! Love it. You have a special way of approaching love in your photo galleries. Very cool.

Wow! This is exactly what I needed to hear. I have been struggling with this concept for years. You are so right. If you love something do it, but it doesn't have to be what you do for a living.

This article might of just saved another 5-10 years of confusion.

This is getting printed and going right on my wall!

mamagalen – Totally agree! I also think that all art should be all done half-assedly.

I did a google search for 'how to make a career as an artist' and this was the first thing that came up… Thanks it was an interesting read, and you said a lot of true things in there. The most successful photographers I know are exceedingly good with networking, and their people skills are fantastic. Have you ever read Orwell's Keep the Aspidistra Flying? It has an excellent portrayal of the whole 'starving artist' condition, the protagonist severely isolated and insular, barely managing to live in a squalid flat, and too hungry to write anything… It seemed relevant to what you were saying :)

Essentially the truth is that one creates because one is compelled to, whatever medium it be, and I know that for myself a life without imagination and creativity is only half an existence. Without art I just exist, I'm not fulfilling any potentials, or expressing myself in any meaningful way. Career is a secondary concern compared to that.

Thanks for putting your views out there, it was good to refresh my perspective! :)

x

Wonderful article!

Building Career is an art. Only creative people could build a professional career!

Well, but an artist too has to live from something. I am doing oil paintings since years and have to admit, most of my income results from direct painting orders on a specified theme. But was that not the income source of most famous painters in the past too?

Very interesting post. I decided to learn to be a graphic designer instead of pursuing being an artist, because I was afraid of what you went through. It's easier to make money as a designer instead of make a sales of your art. I make enough money to support my self, and design is a creative career even though I have to bend my creative thought with clients' needs.

I've been painting here and there, wanting to do some more with it. I am getting sick of my day job, and seeking the way to create art freely. I have to keep working on my day job, so it may take a while to build my art portfolio. Yet, I realized that it is making me way more happier to pursue my passion.

making as an artist is so very dificult, but its the glamour of the whole profession that atracts alot of people

You are right in saying that yours was not a friendly post.

Maybe cynical too. This is not a friendly comment either. Maybe cynical too.

You see, although on some level, in a parallel universe in a different time do agree with you in some twisted way, your words leave me with just one thought. This of course begs the question, have we met before in some other existence. I am happily married and believe me, this is not flirting. But I am curious if the other me has met the other you. I digress.

Have you ever heard of the Fox and the Grapes. It is an Aesops Fable. We condemn the things in life we cannot reach. There may be another answer.

The grapes only taste good when they are in season and are ripe for picking. Like grapes, making a living with art may be seasonal for some people.

What you failed to understand is that there are artist and there are successful artists. I do not know of any starving artist. All artists I know are either overweight and out of shape, very successful or not currently practicing artists. The successful artists are in the business of collecting collectors.

Even writers who are successful are in the business of collecting collectors. In other words, successful artist are business people.

There are unsuccessful entrepreneurs. Do we call them starving entrepreneurs? No. They are just unsuccessful. Whether failures or not depends on how they look at it.

Me, my philosophy is everything is a win. So, to get into the show I just did on short notice this weekend past, cost me about $150 and to travel across three states. Even if not making a dime it would have been a learning experience. I did not do as good as I hoped to but I did learn a lot. Next year I should do double and get about 4 times the residual sales.

Not getting paid for creating art. Things that make you go hmmmm. Lets carry this thought out. The vast majority of folks do not get paid for sex and enjoy it. My mechanic loves working on cars. Should he not get paid for it? I would love that although he would not be able to do it for long.

And my wife has a hair dresser who loves hair and anything to do with it. She should not get paid for it. Although I think she is better at coloring than I am, my wife still prefers me. Oh yea, I don't get paid for that either. Actually, my wife does not pay me for the art I create that hangs in our house as well.

As for your choice of words, one of which must have come from your mouth, I would not have in my hand with out a latex glove to protect it, unless it was dried and I was in a cow pie throwing contest. Well, no wonder you starved.

As to art emanating from a black hole of choice. This is one of my favorite debates to hate. My camera man in a video commercial I produced that was shot in Long Island, dreams of doing something from the farthest reaches of his inner horror loving soul. However, to just talk to him you would never know he is a closet horror lover. He is one of the kindest people and brilliant artist, not starving and somehow has an affordable rent in New York City.

As to being a real artist and making art no matter what, well, you must not be familiar with right brain vs left brain thinking. My best commission single (occasionally manic depressive and restless) was only 7K. Since being blissfully married, my best commission was over 50K (of course it was a monument work). I could not have made the big piece of art no matter what. It required 6 months and lots of someone else's money.

As a matter of fact, money has always been an inspiration. I am not a great artist. But money does inspire me in numerous ways and on numerous levels. I do believe it can help create art. Taking this to the absurd, I cannot paint with out paints that cost about $30 per tube and my big canvases cost about $150. Tried stretching them early on. Over stretching makes them a bit funky and warped. Hey, maybe I need to change the name of that early one. Thanks. It shall be called Early Warp In Green. No, just Warped Green. Wow, the creative juices are flowing thanks to you. But then this is a left – right brain thing.

Quitting your day job is essential if your great or if you want to be. If your so so, then work away. Nothing will get the creative juices flowing, at least for me, like working with out a safety net. But then, my 2nd most favorite book was the best selling, "Innovators Solution." It is a book on the theory of how markets work. It is considered the Bible of Market Theory.

Let see,that book was the reason for quitting nursing and becoming a self supporting artist. Also, that book resulted in selling 14 pieces outright to to a New Hope PA gallery rather than the typical putting them on consignment.

Of course they were my first 14 pieces. Way undersold them but hey, I still made a lot of money.

Don't get me wrong. I was not always an Atlas of the Art Marketing self supporting artists world. I was at one time the equivalent of a 97 pound weakling. Bullies used to kick up copies of Thomas Kinkade in my face at the beach on the weekends.

Those were horrible days. The 7K commission mentioned above won a national interior designers award. Do you think I got another job from it. Nope. However it did launch an industry doing work like mine in all the restaurants around the world. I was not a businessman. I was an artist. Not a successful artist, only one who made a lot of money.

Turns out the 14 pieces I sold, there were ones I did not sell. Well, they just sold this past Sunday in November (09) for between 4 to 10 times what he paid me. Lets see, the six hours of the show resulted in about $3336 in sales. Oh yea, they fed me too. They even fed my wife. On top of that, we got sandwiches for the trip home.

Just a side note here. I did not make $600 per hour at this show. Someone asked how long it took to create one of my pieces. I said 15 years. So, figuring the time I spent learning how to be a businessman and the art of not being a starving businessman and adding that into the mix, I actually only made an hourly wage. I figure my pay should be more than what I make as a specialist nurse. Any extra over the hours it took to create the work gets divvied up. I pay my book keeper (my wife) and my tax accountant (my wife), my cleaning lady (my wife and I am her assistant) and my secretary ( my wife) and my salesman who gets about 10 % (me and occasionally my wife).

Since she also has a job, this is extra money for her. She has not decided what she will buy with her cut just yet.

Also some of the money is set aside for paid days off and sick days. I also put some aside for my paid vacation. I am up to four weeks paid vacation now. Of course, if the sales drop, I may have to do like many businesses and make cut backs. The first perk to be cut back will be the four week paid vacation time off. I may gripe and complain about the cutbacks but in the end, I know that they will be important for the success of my not being a starving artist.

Also there is health insurance, dental and eye not to mention unemployment insurance. Most entrepreneurs are not aware that there is unemployment insurance for if you should have to fire yourself or lay yourself off. It is a program managed by most local banks. Just go in and ask about it. It goes by the name, Saving Account.

So, if I am making $600 per hour then I will not have anything left over for these other expenses. But if I make a fair and decent wage, not only will these be covered, there will also be money for advertising and putting back into the business.

In the case of this show, it only cost me 12% commission. But again, the pieces sold for way more than I would have sold them to the gallery owner.

I guess this speaks to your comment on needing to be a businessman. Here I thought I had to lower the price and consider them lost leaders in my attempt to collect art collectors. In reality, I needed to charge four times the amount (and actually make money for my time and a profit for my business) and as such, increase their value.

The last comment I agree with. I know a lot of better artist than I am who do not get paid for what they do. I would like to know how good of a networker I am but the creative mind, perhaps an artist who created the UpMo test has sold out. Now a commercial concern owns the name and is making money from the concept.

Oh yea, the grapes are actually delicious. The only thing, you can only eat them in season. You may have to find other things to eat in the off season.

Best wishes and how ever you fare, may you fare will.

Could this ever happen in my life?