Women who want to have kids should make it a high priority in their early twenties to find a partner. This week's Newsweek cover story, Marriage by the Numbers, says is okay to wait until after 35 to get married. Newsweek is revising the saying that a woman has more chance of getting hit by a truck than getting married after age 35.
But the article ignores one of the most pressing issues facing Generation X: Infertility. No generation of women has had more trouble with fertility than this generation who received the terrible advice, "Wait. You have time. Focus on your career first."
In fact, you have your whole life to get a career. This is not true about having a baby.
Even if you are past your early twenties, or not heterosexual, if you're single and want to have kids with a partner, you need to find one now. Take that career drive and direct it toward mating because your career skills will outlast your ovaries.
In case you think you're waiting for "the right time," there is no evidence to show when in a woman's career is best to have kids. At any point, she is thrown off track. At any point when a woman has kids, statistically she will start to earn less money even if she takes no maternity leave whatsoever. There is no evidence to show that it's easier to take time out of the workforce at a certain point in a career. People just plain don't know.
Phyllis Moen, professor of sociology at the University of Minnesota, told me in an interview, "Don't wait until the right time in your career to have a child or it will never come."
However there is lots of evidence to show that a woman's biological clock takes a nose-dive at age 35. I know, because that's when I started having kids. The geneticist showed me and my husband a graph of Down's Syndrome and we nearly keeled over when we saw the cliff at 35. We had no idea. That Down's Syndrome cliff, though, is a stand-in for everything, because a huge percentage of fertility statistics get bad at 35.
There is also lots of evidence to say that having kids at least two years apart is best for the kids. However there is a distinct advantage for first-born kids. They are richer, smarter, and as if that’s not enough, year after year 90% of Harvard's incoming freshmen are first-born. You can mitigate the impact of birth order on your second child by having three years between kids.
If you start when you are thirty-one, you can have two kids, three years apart, before you're thirty-five. But this plan does not take into consideration that about 20% of pregnancies end in a miscarriage. This means you have almost a 50% chance of having to go through three pregnancies to have two kids, which means you should start when you're thirty.
If you want to have babies when you're thirty, then you probably want to be married when you're twenty-eight. This is good news because if you marry very young you're more likely to get divorced, but the statistics get much better if you wait until you're twenty-five. For a healthy marriage, experts think people should be married two or three years before they consider having children. A reasonable expectation is to meet someone, date for a couple of years, and get engaged with almost a year's time to pull off a wedding. So you need to meet the person at age twenty-four.
So this means that it may make sense for men to work full-speed ahead on their career in their early twenties, but women cannot afford that. Women need to make time in their lives to search for a mate in the same systematic, focused way that women have been searching for careers in their early twenties. And tell don't yourself you're waiting until you know yourself better. Getting to know yourself is a lifelong process, and after age twenty-five, waiting to get married won't decrease your chance of divorce.
The good news here is that a large body of research shows that you will gain more happiness by being married than by having a good job. Yes, you should not have to choose between a good job and marriage. But this column is not about what is fair or what is just. It is about what is real.
You have a biological clock that does not pay attention to issues of social justice. You cannot control your biological clock and you cannot control the workplace. But you can control where you spend your time and energy, and you should look hard for a husband early on. Line up the marriage first, then the career.









You are so right, Penelope. Thanks for the solid, no-nonsense advice. I'm really glad I found your blog.
Posted by melanie gao on 06/07/2006 at 01:34am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Sounds great… Too bad life doesn't work like that! Yeah, I want a husband at 25, baby at 27, and a mansion as well. Guess what? You don't always get what you want. This article makes me want to puck!
Posted by Jamie on 06/27/2006 at 05:55pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Hi, Jamie. I think people get what they want if they make it a huge priority. If you make getting a husband your number-one priority, you'll find one. If you decide that having a mansion is a really, really high priority, then you can get that, too.
It's about prioritizing. I think the media makes women feel like it's bad to make getting a husband a top priority. But it's not. It's part of reality.
That said, I did not make finding a husband my top priority in my twenties. So I didn't get one then. But I can see that what I did make my top priority in my twenties — finding a career — I did really well.
We can't have everything. We have to give something up. Giving up having kids early is much riskier than giving up finding a career early.
Posted by Penelope Trunk on 06/27/2006 at 11:22pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I've got news for you. Babies come when they are supposed to, career or no career. It's God's plan. I know this from personal experience, as neither of my two kids were planned. Had my daughter at age 31, and had a tough time during her childbirth. So I swore "No more babies – she's fine as an only child!" Fast forward nine years – I found myself unexpectedly pregnant again, at age 40, which is supposed to be above and beyond the range to have a healthy baby. Gave birth two days before my 41st birthday to a son who's as strong as an ox, and sharp as a tack. No Down's syndrome there!
Yes, I know that I have been lucky. And maybe women would benefit from having kids sooner than I did. But after being told at age 18 that I would never have any babies at all, all I can say is that women should take doctor's advice with a grain of salt. Doctors aren't in control – God is!
Posted by Gail on 02/08/2007 at 05:33pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Wow, all the money I have spent on grad school could have easily been used for much better (and, frankly funner) purposes. I guess I should throw the towel in at 32—according to this article. I assume, you met your man at the appropriate age and time and life has been wonderful living in the McMansion all the while. That is one thing I find hilarious. At age 24, many of the Mommier than thou women I know met the men that they would later marry and become fathers to their children at the most ridiculous of places—-drunk in bars, as a result of a one-night stand, etc. Drink up girls and marry the first loser you can get, according to this article.
* * * * *
Hi, Sara.I met my husband pretty late. But I do not harbor resentment toward people who married early — no matter where they met their mate. I now understand that we get what we work hard to get. I focused on my career in my twenties and I ended up with great work. I see now that there is no biological clock on working, but there is on having babies. So it seems like common sense to handle the thing that has a deadline on it first, and then handle the thing with no deadline.
-Penelope
Posted by Sara Jones on 02/21/2007 at 06:16pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I've been obsessively planning the chronnology of having baby #1 for almost 10 years now. It sounds like this article was written about me. I'm 30 and career focused. Got married two years ago at 28. Now planning to conceive. First child at 31, wait 2-3 years, second child before 34 to avoid the probability of a genetic abnormality.
It is re-assuring that the logic behind my 'planning' can be backed up with expert opinion. Otherwise, it feels a little cold and calculating.
Posted by Janine Mosley on 03/04/2007 at 02:29am | permalink | Reply to this comment
I did what this article suggested as the ultimate guide line for a woman's biologica/career life. My time line had a plan. I knew for certain that I wanted my education and my career and at least one child. The husband and the McMansion was a mystery. When I was 19, I met my husband at a Christmas party. I was a freshman in college and very focused on my education and career path (in graphic design). We dated for 2 years, lived together for 2 years, one of which we were engaged for. And we've been married for 11 years (together for 16). I had my first son at 27, my second son at 30 and just had my third boy at 34. Motherhood has taken me by surprise. I love it and get more from it than any other thing I've ever experienced. I have my own graphic design studio, 12 years now going strong. Having my own business was always my goal and I know contributes to my confidence as a mother. I want to show my kids that women can do all things with their lives and their choices. But now I've found that with my life in full swing and my kids as beautiful as they are, I want to continue to grow my family. I never thought that I would have wanted a big family, but life is funny that way… full of surprises …. especially in myself! But now, the conflict is with my husband. He is 9 years older than me and does not want to have any more kids because he's said he feels he's getting too old. I'm 35 and he's 44. He is an incredible, very interactive father and a good, loving, healthy man. There are things in his life which he wants to achieve and I feel that I'm at a point where there's a fine balance between time and both of us being able to achieve our goals. For the first time in our relationship, I wonder if we both want the same things out of life? So, even when you "do" what "they say" you're supposed to "do", I'm still left with questions about my wants and needs and trying to balance it all with the people and choices in my life. Is this natural to still want? I fret sometimes that it's bad karma. But then I think, "Don't limit yourself!!!!" Any feedback, I would be curious to read
* * * * * * *
Hi, Jeni. I just wanted to say thank you for writing such a candid and honest comment. These are the kinds of stories that we can all learn from. The more honest people are about what's happening in their life, no matter what's happening, the more we can learn. I learned from this one, so thanks.
–Penelope
Posted by Jeni on 03/13/2007 at 07:42pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Get a partner! Now!
What the hell, these things happen or they don't. One sure fire way of making it not happen is to have that "I need a partner to copulate with and make babies" look on your face when you meet someone…
Posted by Ap on 03/23/2007 at 09:21am | permalink | Reply to this comment
You could always just not have kids.
An adult life with a loving man is great – several women including my wife have told me.
It's also not a great world to be bringing kids into.
Posted by John Hansen on 04/22/2007 at 09:56pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Is there a better world to be brought into that I should be aware of?
Posted by Laura on 01/27/2010 at 12:24pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Wow, my wife and I are both 36. We do not have any kids right now. We have been married almost 5 years. It sounds like it is not a good idea for us to by this article. But going by what Janine "Baby Machine" Mosley says, I can still pickup women 9 years my junior, just like her husband did when he was 28 and she was 19. Given this, I now know I can go out and get a 27 year-old uterus that is prime for baby having. I need some advice on how to tell my wife this. Any help?
My mother was 38 when I was born, but I like this strong case for younger women. Thanks Penelope! You're the best!
Posted by Kevin on 04/25/2007 at 02:29pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Why am I not surprised that these last two comments by men suggest that once again they are clueless to women's issues? And I don't believe that their wives are being completely honest with them or themselves. What nerve!!! To call Janine Mosely a "Baby Machine"!!! You are so out of your league that you have not only embarrassed yourself, but both you, Kevin and your neanderthall, counterpart John Hansen have set back men and their thinking. Just not getting the entire point of the original article. The least that can be done is to respect the women that have the intelligence to "plan" their families. We should have more Mosely's and less of you in the world. Actually, I should thank both you and John for NOT reproducing. THANK YOU for not creating more like minded people like you!
Posted by Jeni on 04/25/2007 at 02:54pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Gee…Angry at men much??
Posted by Mark on 04/22/2009 at 02:24pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Thank you to all of you who have completely discounted those of us that have "disrupted" plans. You must have sore backs – that is from being bent over and looking down on the rest of us with no "plan". As for Jeni – you need to go out and get a sense of humor so you might be able to decipher sarcasm from reality. God bless those who live their lives so willy nilly as to think that they might actually have children IF and WHEN they deem fit – for them – not for anyone elses' calender. And God bless those who want to plan out every step of their lives – I pray that it all works out for you both. John Hansen – blessings to you for not feeling that life is otherwise unfit if you do not have children. To the panel of judges above, please let us all be – well – who we want to be and when we want to be it.
Posted by Stephanie on 04/25/2007 at 11:48pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Wow, this article is a reality check. I married and had my children in my early 20's and wouldn't change it for anything in the world. That was 15 years ago and back then I felt out of step. Now I am glad things played out the way they did. Did my husband and I plan it? No. Did we struggle? Yes. Did I sacrifice some freedom? Absolutely. But now I am still young enough to enjoy my kids AND concentrate on nurturing them and my career. (I am in my mid-30's now.) As a mother, I do put my children and their well-being first. I finished my college education when my children were in grammar school so they were thrilled to see Mom graduate. Fertility is finite, careers and educations are not. Women need to make peace with that. One can go back to college or finish grad school after 35, but to attempt to START a family after 35 is sadly disappointing for a lot of women. Some of my friends, who are struggling with infertility, felt they were sold a "bill of goods" by believing they can "have it all and wait for the education, the knight in shining armor, the big house, etc." Some women are struggling and embittered by buying into that unrealistic mindset. (No, that doesn't mean-getting pregnant just for the sake of it, but if our ancestors had to wait for conditions to be perfect..ummm..none of us would be here.)
There is a reason women have the ability to conceive a healthy child in their prime reproducing years..20s-35. They are young, usually healthy, and their bodies are more resilient to the stresses of child-bearing. The same could be said for men and athletic ability. A man is at his peak, physically, at those ages as well. There are laws of nature that dictate what science and social mores can not reproduce. Sorry girls, but those are the facts o' life.
Posted by Karyn24 on 05/10/2007 at 05:57pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Sorry, but that's simply not going to wash for a bunch of us out here.
I'm a 42 year old male, never married. My career has been a priority (and I was not cut out for marriage before). The fact of the matter is that I'm looking at marriage, and perhaps parenthood, in my 40s. It simply wasn't going to happen any other way (it might have in my late 30s, but didn't). I know a number of single women like myself.
I take issue with a few things here. First of all, my 42 is not your 42. Quite frankly, I'm in good shape (grateful for my good health) and everyone thinks I'm about 10 years younger than I really am. Sure, there are people my age who aren't as fit, but there actually is a bigger variation than you think (esp. here in LA).
Secondly, many of us (men and women) just aren't cut out to be married and have kids in our 20s. For too many reasons to go into. One thing sure to keep those of us single in our 20s is to try and put out a rather shrill warning that we'd better get to it earlier. Everyone is aware of the consequences of delaying it, but this article, done up in the manner of some friendly advice, doesn't take the full picture into account.
And that is, nature adapts. People are living longer, and with changing diets (i.e. Asia) growing larger. Our lifespans used to be 45 or so, now they reach into the 70s. If you look around you will see people having healthy babies in their 30s and even 40s.
There are always going to be some women that wait too long or just can't do it later. That's unfortunately true. However it's simply not as dire as you make it sound.
Posted by PG on 05/15/2007 at 05:24pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
PG,
I find your comments refreshing. I am a 37 year old female (never married) and am currently finishing up a BSBA in Accounting (finally graduate this May). I would agree with you and from what I have seen personally that many, many people are simply not ready for the demands of marriage and children in their 20s and 30s (as our current divorce rate shows) and that it has been shown that older parents do make better parents—not just from the perspective of more maturity but the fact that they are more stabilized in their careers and finances. People are living longer and healthier lives and it would only make sense that people would be parents later as well.
As for the fertility concerns, yes there is a risk—but has anybody ever heard of adoption????
Posted by AC on 01/26/2010 at 07:59pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Wow! This can be a pretty dishartening column to read if you're a single woman in you thirties or late 20's! Thankfully it looks like I'm on the right track… In a couple of months, 3 days before my 24th birthday, it will be my 2 year anniversary with my boyfriend. We are planning on waiting a couple more years to get married and hopefully have children right around age 30. The prospect of having children and putting a damper on my career still terrifies me nonetheless.
Posted by Daniela on 05/17/2007 at 03:49pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Why am I not surprised that these last two comments by men suggest that once again they are clueless to women’s issues?
Having a baby where half the marriage doesn't want one is not a woman's issue – it's a FAMILY ISSUE! And I don’t believe that their wives are being completely honest with them or themselves. I mentioned that to my wife and she said you are so misguided (that is the nice way) She said a baby is everyone's business and that there must be an agreement before having one – or either may leave the relationship. Both you, Kevin and your neanderthall, counterpart John Hansen have set back men and their thinking. NO – we've enlightened men who might not understand yet. You being nasty doesn't prove your points at all. Men and women need to be in agreement on the baby issue. The author of this article says the woman needs to have everything scheduled right down to the dates of births,etc. With a woman being driven like that – most men will just leave – as they should. Where is the FUN a man needs to have with his chosen a couple of years before having to make a choice on a baby? FUN – without that – why be married – of for that matter why even be alive? Live should not be one obstacle course after another – work, wars, famine and disease are enough – a man and a woman should be there for each other and talk of the other later. MajorHart
Posted by John Hansen on 05/18/2007 at 12:26am | permalink | Reply to this comment
I think women should do what they want to do when they're ready for it, not based on what peers or trends say.
Posted by Sabrina on 05/22/2007 at 11:02pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Completely agree!!! Maybe then the divorce rate wouldn't be as high as 50%!
Posted by AC on 01/26/2010 at 08:01pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
>John Hansen – blessings to you for not feeling that life is otherwise unfit if you do not have children.
Thanks much. The glue that will hold a family together during the stressful time of child raising will be based on what kind and how solid the love relationship is between the two mates. That comes from quality adult time together – have fun, and sometimes "just being." The confidence my wife and I have with each other and the understandings we have could not have been developed with a scheduled life or babies. We had none and are fully happy. If we had some we'd be happy too, because we had quality time to get to know each other and fall in love. I'd like to hear from more women that have a quality life with their husbands and for a few years before they begin to desire babies. With some it becomes such a compulsion that they will dump their loving husband and do it on their own – drawing welfare for support. That is wrong. My wife works with a number of young to 40ish women that work part time to meet people and for a little extra money and are 3/4 supported by OUR tax dollars. We think that is wrong – if you want to have babies – let your man out if he doesn't – and then be prepared to work to support yourself and them. MajorHart
Posted by MajorHart on 05/23/2007 at 07:37am | permalink | Reply to this comment
It's not God's plan, there is no such thing, people get pregnant, some people dont. It depends on many factors such as using a condom, number of sperm present, etc, etc, its not magic people!
Posted by Stephen Crowley on 07/06/2007 at 07:28pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I married when I was 21 and when my husband was 23. We agreed at that time that we'd later have two children (I wanted 3, but agreed to 2). I graduated from law school when I was 26. I wanted to start a family at that time, but my husband was not ready. I tried to be patient, but when I turned 28 and he said he still wasn't ready to start trying, I suggested marriage counseling. He left me a couple weeks before I turned 29, in part because he felt like having kids would mean his career would never get started. Now I face my divorce being finalized around my 30th birthday. I plan on becoming a foster parent next year, and then I plan to get remarried in 2009 when I am 31. I want to try having children right off. I've already fallen in love again. Ideally, I would want to know someone more than a year before getting married, but I probably will not wait longer. Ideally, I would want to be married for a year or two before having children, but I probably will start trying as soon as I am married. Ideally, I would have followed this plan you have laid out, and I hope women still in their early 20s read it. However, we can only control and foresee so much. I still want a family, and I think I will still have one. For some women, their husbands dragged them along longer, promising to be ready to have children soon but leaving them at age 35 or 40. I say, if you think you are still fertile, and you want to have children, find a partner who also wants children. I do not have any regrets. I have a lesson on how much of life and I can and cannot control. Let's be supportive of one another as women, whatever situations we are in. I wish all of you luck in getting what you want out of life.
Posted by Lucy on 08/30/2007 at 12:42pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Isn't there anything in your life worth doing other than having kids?
What about your new law degree and chance to become a well paid attorney. What could you and your former husband do to be happy with your new career and his. With you being so driven to just have babies, I can see why he bailed out. Kids are not the only reason to be alive or be married. FUN – LOVE of two adults, FUN – Sharing of career interests and income opportunities – FUN – there's a big, big world out there for two people and if the people want to – the kids come – it should not be because they have to. You have everything so planned – he just had to get out. Your next man may give you kids but he isn't going to like your fixation either and you'll likely have your kids but be single again.
Posted by MajorHart on 08/31/2007 at 06:59am | permalink | Reply to this comment
I find your article simplistic. It has alienated me as a reader of yours, and I bought your book and check your site for career advice! I am a single Gen X female in my early 30s raised in a single parent household. I think that your article missed a reality in this country that relationships, dating or marriage, even with lots of kids, don't always work out. I would rather not have kids than be a female raising children on my own without a well-paying career. I couldn't afford not to go full speed ahead with my career after college. Have you heard of student loans? ("A Man is Not a Financial Plan" -bumper sticker, http://www.wife.org) Did you ponder that you might be alienating your 30-something single female readers who are in the work world? I'll look for career advice elsewhere from now on.
Posted by Single in NY on 12/15/2007 at 12:27am | permalink | Reply to this comment
i'm alienated by MajorHart – oh how seeeensitive of me…A Man IS a Financial Plan – men want to work for something/someone – a wife, a family – it gives him worth – he wants to provide — i'll look for career advice from Penelope
Posted by fred on 12/26/2007 at 06:17pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Fred – you're so out of touch with reality. You might need to support a wife and family but 8 of 10 guys I know do now – I don't. I have plenty of worth and no need to provide. Are you trying to impress the women here with your asinine ramblings?
Well there are some very intelligent women her who can see past your platitudes about what men want and what they should be doing. Get a clue.
Posted by MajorHart on 12/26/2007 at 08:20pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Penelope, I've spent the last few days devouring your blog archives. I think your outlook on careers is sharp, original, and convincing.
As for this string of comments…I believe it's our perogative and responsibility to read what interests and informs us. I feel more knowledgeable for having read this column. We don't have to agree. Whether or not we do, I believe we have a responsibility to voice our opinions without being petty or condescending. I find that people who become obnoxiously defensive most often lack confidence in their own convictions.
I believe the crux of what Penelope is saying is true; the window of fertility is a reality. There is no certainty of finding a spouse, but there is no certainty of anything. I don't think anyone is arguing that you put all of your eggs in one basket. But it's important to know what your priorities are. For me, it was the difference between being lazy on a Saturday night or gathering myself up off the couch and meeting friends and friends-of-friends for a drink.
Posted by Lisa on 02/27/2008 at 04:55pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
This is not to any specific person.
The overriding thing I notice here is a drive to have kids – at the expense of a loving marriage and a good successful career.
Some women plan it out in their teens and they dont take into account (or give any concerns to) what the husband of male partner might want or need.
Let's make no mistake – these attitudes are a WANT – not a need. And what would you tell the potential husband when you meet him. "I want to have kids, we're going to have kids and how many and when *I* want to or else you're irresponsible, and I'll dump you."
Where is the FUN in this for a man – where is the reason to be with a woman at all? Where is the goodtimes and adjustment to each other? Where are the sportsbars and tailgate parties? Where are the dancing and moonlight walks along the beach – talking about love of each other and for each other – not about making babies? Where is the sex without feeling it's to make babies only. Sex is to build love and for fun too.
Give this plan to most men and they will run for the woods. I am so glad to hear from women who think having babies (or not) should be a mutual decision and if that's all you're married for – your whole marriage is a waste. Be honest with your husband or boyfriend – let him know if he is just a means to an end and nothing more. Some men might fall for that (we are notoriously stupid sometimes) but most quality men will see they are just being used, and will hit the road. Oh, and be ready to support those kids if you have them. There's no reason I and others should have to pay for your compulsion. MajorHart
Posted by MajorHart on 02/28/2008 at 01:14pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
oh my goodness MajorHart..calm down! Everyone wants to have fun in their marriage, hopefully its what drove the relaitonship in the first place. I believe Penelope even said *ideally* you would spend 2 years dating and one year engaged—lots and lots of time for fun. She's also not suggesting women rope unsuspecting men into having children. All she is saying is, biology is biology and science is science, and while anyone can trot out a 'i'm the exception and i got pregnant with a healthy baby at 45' story, thats not the reality for most women and they need to be aware of it and prioritize accordingly. Period. So people that don't want kids don't even need to worry about it. And all that time between finding your mate and having kids- it's built in to get to know each other, enjoy each other and have fun. Some people even manage to have fun after you have kids beleive it or not. And if you find you don't want the same things early in the relationship, then you move on no harm no foul. MajorHart, I just really think you need to relax.
Posted by J on 03/02/2008 at 07:23pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I am relaxed – totally.
The problem is the harsh structuring. If I knew I had 2 years to get to know my wife and have fun and that in 3 a baby was required. I would never enjoy even a minute of that time.
Example: As a young man of 30 in Tacoma – I had 8 male friends. 5 of them had a girlfriend get pregnant on them – 3 got married but were very unhappy about the blackmail and trickery involved. Two hit the road.
Of the other 3 – two of the new wives were pregnant within two months, even though they promised they would wait at least two years because they knew their husbands did not want children even that soon. Their husbands were exremely unhappy and in almost all the cases sex and adult only pleasures such as sportbars, camping, fishing, fun with other single friends – became a thing of the past. Ohe had a good marriage and is still happy at last contact.
The others are all unhappy at last contact – which was about 20 years ago now.
I do want to know that my wife will see to it that she doesn't get pregnant until we mutually agree and without nagging and threats. If she knows she's going to be alone – if she truly loves her husband and I'm wondering how many women truly do, she will take her pill religiously and/or get an abortion.
I know some women truly do love their husbands and believe something as important as having a baby needs to be a mutual decision.
I dated a girl in Lincoln Nebraska – we hit it off very well and I would have liked to continue going with her but she started talking about marriage in the first and second weeks and what sex of child I wanted in the third. She wouldnt't let up on it – it was clear that was all that was on her mind and she was only 21.
Another good female friend had her first pregnancy (illegitimate) at 15 and second at 20 – and was angling for more at that age. I really liked her and was very fond of her two kids and while we never had sex or anything more than a friendship – I would have liked to have been a factor in helping her raise those two kids – love, money, moral support, maybe even a marriage if I did feel I was being used – but I didnt want any of my own for at least 4 years and she knew it and married someone else.
We need to know when we are not going to have babies and a general framework for when we are if we have discussed it and mutually agreed – but not down to a specific year.
Now – please – just relaxxxxxxxxxx.
Posted by MajorHart on 03/02/2008 at 08:15pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Here's the thing: I'm in my mid-twenties, and my partner is in her late twenties. In addition to the complications of having biological children in a same-sex relationship, neither of us are ready for kids emotionally or financially, and are unlikely to be ready in the next few years. We both have relatively steady jobs, as steady as anything these days, but we don't make enough to be able to honestly say we could raise a child. Now, maybe if we had taken the advice in another column and chosen careers that were higher paying (I teach Jr High and she's in technical theatre) we wouldn't have the money issue, but I think we would still have the emotional one. We're just not ready. I know no one is ever really ready, and I suppose if we were forced to we would rise to the occasion, but why put our biological clocks before our emotional clocks?
Also, while I understand the drive to have a biological child, what's to stop these successful and stable women in their thirties and forties from adopting? There are lots of children who need the kind of home that these women can provide, why not suggest to them that they *can* have it all… it just doesn't look like it used to.
Posted by megan on 03/02/2008 at 09:09pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Hi. I'm glad you brought those things up. It's very hard to see any kind of job stability these days and that adds a lot of stress and more things to consider. If we decide we really want a baby – natural, adopted, we have to make sure we can afford to take good care of them.
My wife and I also had qualms about the kind of world we would be bringing the baby up in. it's not a very pretty place now.
Still, we're glad we're here as we try to help turn America around and make it work for the people again.
If I did have a child – I would have major problems with sending it over to iraq to die or in wondering what kind of job it would be able to get with all the outsourcing.
That said – I wish you the best and hope you can get what you want. AND I applaud your caution.
MajorHart
Posted by MajorHart on 03/02/2008 at 10:55pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Thank you for your frank and thoughtful piece. As a 25-year-old woman with strong career aspirations, and even stronger family aspirations, I take your words to heart. I'd like to pull out two quotes that I found especially powerful and true:
"Women need to make time in their lives to search for a mate in the same systematic, focused way that women have been searching for careers in their early twenties."
"I think people get what they want if they make it a huge priority. If you make getting a husband your number-one priority, you’ll find one."
I find it odd that some other readers took issue with these statements, countering with such platitudes as, "these things happen or they don’t."
One thing that many people seem not to realize is that you can increase your chances of meeting an appropriate mate if you approach the task with the same tenacity and smart work that you would apply to a job search. No, this does not mean hanging out at the local bar night after night with a dewy twinkle in your eye. It means thinking strategically about the best avenues for meeting people who click with you, and then applying a significant amount of effort and time to the pursuit.
Singles today have tools and opportunities that were not as present – if at all – for previous generations. (Examples: online dating sites, singles events at local cultural organizations, an ever expanding wealth of local volunteer opportunities, etc.) If someone puts in the time and effort to exploit these avenues (and yes, it does take time and effort), they have a much better chance at meeting someone than the person who lulls around waiting for Cupid to make it all happen for them.
Like so much in business, dating is a numbers game. One would never approach their business with the attitude, "The next sale will come my way when the time is right." Finding a mate is the same way: the more time you devote to meeting new people (in the right contexts and settings), the more likely you are to find someone whose attributes compliment your own.
Regardless of one's feelings around when a woman should have a family vs. focus on her career, I think every women should consider that she can make big things happen in her life – even finding a mate – if she sets priorities and applies herself.
Posted by JG on 03/15/2008 at 11:38am | permalink | Reply to this comment
This post is pathetic with a capital P. Good for you if you are married by age 25. I was married at age 30 and am now considering separating/divorcing because my husband has become abusive. I am now 31.5. What hope do I have then?? Since, according to you I have to do it all by 35, yet I need a few years to date first, a year to get engaged, then antoher few years of marriage, try to have kids (pray to god we don't have problems).. and I'll be how old then?
Good on you for making women in their 30's who haven't 'settled down' yet and found a man feel like even more shit. You make me sick. I may as well kill myself now right? cos life aint worth living if you don't have a (rich) husband, 2 kids (3 years apart), and a picket fence by age 35?!
Posted by hateyou on 03/18/2008 at 02:17am | permalink | Reply to this comment
btw I wanted to add I am definitely NOT a 'career woman' either. I never choice one over the other. In fact, I have no career at all and YES there IS a time limit to your career.. how many 50 year olds can just turn up at a job interview and get the job? or even get the interview in the first place?
Even I am finding myself competing against 21 year old college graduates.
This 'piece' of crap that you have written is the most misinformed, poorly researched piece of work I have seen online on this subject.
Posted by hateyou on 03/18/2008 at 02:20am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Wow! If women weren't stressed out enough about fertility, this article sure put the nail in the coffin. Unfortunately life doesn't always pan out the way we plan. I can say that my twenties followed "the plan", hell I was ahead of it! I met the guy at 22 moved in together at 24, got engaged at 25 and was married at 29. I thought he was a great guy, I loved him and I loved his family. I thought I was on the way to a perfect life. Shortly after we married he became obsessed with porn and wouldn't touch me. Then he was faulting me on all my shortcomings for not measuring up to his porn star expectations. After seeking marriage counseling and desperately trying to make my marriage work, I couldn't take the abuse anymore and left. Now I find myself a divorced 32-year old woman who is off-track according to "the plan". There is no way I am going to let this article bother me. Life just isn't perfect. Even if you follow "the plan", there are plenty of other conditions that your child can be born with that have no correlation with the age of the mother. How many children are born with with Cerebral Palsy, Cystic Fibrosis, Muscular Dystrophy? How many children are affected by autism? Don't these conditions also require an awful lot of courage, patience, work and love on the part of the parents?
There is no need to freak out ladies. There is no age limit on adopting a child and there are plenty of children that need good parents. Take the time to find a quality guy if you want one, but also don't be afraid to raise a child alone.
Posted by Kristen on 03/28/2008 at 01:12am | permalink | Reply to this comment
i want to get married i am 26
Posted by boma on 03/30/2008 at 02:40pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I understand that it seems the point is about prioritizing.
I have prioritized finding a partner for about 4 years now, and I havent even found a fling, or short relationship. Meeting someone, falling in love, and raising a family is THE most important things to me. I have read books, I have joined clubs, met lots of new people, worked on bettering me, etc etc. I dont understand how finding a husband (or in my case a life partner) is so easy even if it is a priority.
My current plan is to find happiness so that I attract good people. I was miserable in my last job, so I am focusing on finding a career helps me towards happiness, thereby attracting good people, and hopefully a life partner, to me. Please help me find the flaw in my logic!! I would love to find my life partner by 24, but it is creeping up on me and I havent even had any serious relationships yet, how am i supposed to find the "one" by 24?
Posted by Kiki on 06/24/2008 at 10:09pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Life is more than makking babies. Life doesn't always work out the way you expect it to either. Some things just aren't meant to be put on a schedule.
Posted by Country Chuck on 08/06/2008 at 10:48am | permalink | Reply to this comment
> Life is more than makking babies. Life doesn't always work out the way you expect it to either. Some things just aren't meant to be put on a schedule
I TOTALLY AGREE CHUCK. But I don't think many women will. I've been watching and studying this subject for YEARS NOW and 98.9 of women in my view are calculating and thinking about making babies from age 10 or so. Some would say that is the environment – that we encourage it by giving them dollies and carriages and milk bottles – I think some of it is genetic but not bacause of the dollies, etc.
I would think that if all there was to live is making babies – there would be non point in living at all.
While a man is having fun with his buddies at a sports bar or party and the woman who pretends to be having fun too IS NOT – she is planning every step of the way. Men can just be and have fun – women are always planning, scheming and talking about going to "another level" and a man that doesn't want to go there is said to be "irresponsible." Apparently because thats all that is in their lives, they think we should be that way too. I pity them and I'm so happy for the very few that have escaped that trap, and live their lives for themselves and their man if they have one.
I know many, many men are with a woman that they love and would just as soon that situation go on forever – but almost alway his woman is planning on "starting a family." If he doesn't want one – she will get pregnant by someone else and he will still be legally responsible. The compulsion is that strong.
I've been on a lost of forums on this subject and to hear all the women talking of how much they love their fantastic man but that they are going to leave him if he won't consent to kids or more kids (sometimes the woman is 45)
There has to be more to life than that.
Thanks for the post.
MajorHart
Posted by MajorHart on 08/07/2008 at 01:08am | permalink | Reply to this comment
having read all of this…. feel like crap!
Posted by sam on 08/21/2008 at 10:48pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I don't think it's fair to categorize women this way. Not everyone will want to follow this path.
I feel sorry for any impressionable young women reading this and feeling stressed about having to start dating because they're 24 years old and they'll need to spend enough years with "Mr. Rightnow" before marrying him at the age of 28.
Perhaps it wasn't your intention, but, with this post, you have reduced women to mere time-ticking procreating machines, and you've reduced men to commodities that can be claimed in marriage and slaved throughout their youth. There is more to life.
I'm 27, I've been dating my boyfriend for 7 years and we are in no hurry to take on marriage or children. He respects the goals that I've set out in my life and I respect his. Children are not a factor right now.
More and more educated women are fulfilling their career and scholarly objectives, and as long as the glass ceiling is cracking, I fear no social injustice.
So, yes, my biological clock isn't "paying attention" but I'm not concerned because, as with all women, my brain does the thinking.
Posted by Scorpio on 09/05/2008 at 01:01pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
This article is ridiculous. since when is finding a "husband" a job? Finding someone to share the rest of your life with is a wonderful part of life. And having kids with that person is even greater! Treating it liek a "job" and priority is twisted and inhumane. I wouldn't have wanted to be a product of a business deal. If it's meant to be it's meant to be. And you never find what you want if you're looking for it.
Posted by Gemini Girl on 09/24/2008 at 12:39pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
My problem was being ambivalent about starting a family. Additionally I became chronically ill in my twenties and the only thing on my mind at the time was survival.
I kissed a lot of frogs and spent an unproductive time (7 yrs) in a relationship with a man who was married but I didn't know that until half way through, and by then I was "in love". He asked me to marry and then drug his feet. By the time I gained the courage to leave him I was already 36.
Fast forward to today (44.5 years of age)and I've met someone wonderful – single, younger and we want a family. Theoretically I can still reproduce, regular periods though perimenopause seems to be setting in. We have been trying for six months without success, so my Obgyn has referred me to an infertility clinic.
If I had had a crystal ball way back when and knew I would want a family I would have frozen my eggs. I'm sure my mother would have helped with the cost, since when I was first diagnosed with lupus the first thing she wanted to know is if I would be able to have kids, God rest her soul.
Sometimes life does not cooperate with your plans or your plans change. I would urge young women to concentrate on finding the right guy and banking her eggs as well. You never know. If I had been able to do that, I'd be happily pregnant now instead of waiting on pins and needles to see if I still can or not.
Posted by wantsababy on 09/29/2008 at 03:29pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
WTF!
Posted by 29F single on 11/07/2008 at 11:55am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Sorry, it's just not true that by "making marriage a priority" you can just make it happen.
I knew I wanted kids and I was focused on finding the right partner from the time I was in my early 20s. (I'm now 31.) It was always easy for me to find men (they found me really) but hard for me to find ones I really liked. I dated a lot of men and had a couple of long-term relationships that ultimately weren't right.
It's easy to find *a* guy. There's no way to predict whether you'll find the *right* guy.
There's a huge element of luck to meeting the right person. There are no guarantees in life, and just working hard isn't always enough.
Posted by mambera on 12/28/2008 at 08:36pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Great article!!! You really put it into perspective!!
Posted by Meg on 01/14/2009 at 11:42pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Well, what if you met husband at 21, married at 28, and started trying at 31 but you had 5 miscarriages and there was no answer from specialists as to why. You had tests on egg quality and all girl parts, and nada. My docs assured me that this was not age-related. I did have children, but gasp, my first was born a few days past my 35th birthday. I am planning on starting for #2 shortly. Sometimes best laid plans of mice and men. There are women who meet hubby late, who have fertility issues at the age of 25, there are so many variations. Sometimes, you just don't get it all in a neat little package and it hurts.
Posted by J on 01/22/2009 at 02:33am | permalink | Reply to this comment
God, reading this was really scary. Penelope I know what you mean, but it was tough for me to read it, as I know it was a slap in the face for many women single women out there. I'm 28 and single. I've never had a boyfriend in my life. I consider myself an educated woman, I have a Masters degree, I speak several languages and I am well travelled. I have to recognise that I've spend many years studying, first in University and then I worked in my field and then went back to school. I'm by no means ugly I consider myself pretty and funny. I have a lot of friends, but I've never really clicked romantically with anyone in my life. After University most of my friends started to get married and now 95% of them are either married or in a serious relationship, which makes me feel even more anguished.
I truly believe that women in this generation have it rough, it's either your career or a family, or struggle if you want both, it's so unfair. Men can be really mean with this subject because their biological clock doesn't tick as loud as ours, it's not that obvious for them. But to tell you the truth, even now that I'm still alone I cannot think of a single guy that I met in my early twenties that I could've married. I also think that marriage is the last thing in the minds of most guys in their 20's, therefore women should not feel guilty about not meeting The One early on, because men are rarely eager to commit at that age. I think it's a conbination of luck and destiny if and when we meet our ideal partner.
All I can say is that there's nothing that would make me happier than to find a loving husband and THEN start a family, until then I'm just going to spend time with my family, go out with friends, work and just plain LIVE.
Posted by Lily Pond on 02/01/2009 at 07:32pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I highly admire your educational and career accomplishmnents. I'd rather have a woman like that than any other. I do have that.
If I were looking I would still choose a woman with your education and other accomplishments BUT I would not want kids anytime. I don't understand why many women can't be happy with a good career and a good loving man. Forever. And I made a committment to such a great woman and I'd do it again the same way.
We both love kids (other people's) and when we want to return to a sane life – we go to our home with 3 entertaining cats.
Your views respected.
MajorHart
Some can and that shows me that this thing about kids is a want – not a need.
Posted by MajorHart on 02/04/2009 at 07:23pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
MajorHart-
Do you have any single brothers? I am educated, I love my career and my life, but every man I meet wants to have children… I cannot figure this out for the life of me! I have no biological clock whatsoever! I love to travel and learn new things, both of which would be ruined by children. I would be perfectly content with a good career and a good man, but men always stare at me blankly when I say I do not want children… why is this??
Posted by The translator on 2009-04-08 22:20:23 | (Comments wont nest below this level)
it would seem that P. is just a poster child for perfect, on-time living, would it not? and yet. even nastier, more disheartening, and downright judgmental than the original post is the smugness oozing from this comments thread. so, great — you had the financial resources, marvelous foresight, and just plain luck to get everything done on time, ladies. cheers. really.
Posted by lmv on 02/04/2009 at 02:59pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
i feel like this blog post is speaking directly to me. but while the possibility of its truth does scare the living shit out of me, it's still not enough to bring me to my knees.
Posted by kristin on 03/01/2009 at 06:08pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
This is an interesting article about women needing to be in tone with our biological clocks. Many individuals who answered the column are not looking at this information for what it is: ADVICE. Yes, some of the information is purely scientific in nature, but the reality is life is what YOU make it.
What do you want? Are you ready for marriage and children?
A timeline for marriage and children are accomplished in YOUR OWN TIME. No one else’s time frame should suggest when you can expect to be married or raise children. There is no time factor setup or edged in stone as to who’s method of timeliness works best for family. The reality is that some people are suited for marriage, children or children without being married.
However, recommendations are listed above about the female and our biological clocks. Having children before 35 assures less health risk and stress on the feminine physique. Does it decrease other stress in our life such as student loans fees, credit card debt, mortgage payments, etc?
Women please define YOU before running off to marry the first man in sight. Is the man right for you? Does he fit into your lifestyle: morally/ethically, emotionally or financially? Does he appear to be into you or into himself? Does he want the most out of life? Is he willing to take flight at the first sign of a disaster? Is he going to be there till your dying day? Know the man you are going to marry and have children with for a secure worry-free future.
Again, please think about what you want out of life. Are children going to stop your life goals, such as finishing school, moving across country or being financial stable? Are children going to enhance your life’s goals? Are children going to take care of themselves in the event of divorce, loss of employment, or excessive work hours? Or, are you going to pawn your children off on other family members during these periods of time? Think about how you fit into the family triangle of accountability: husband, wife and children.
Look at YOUR situation and be logical. Are you and your wonderful love bug going to be ready for life’s obstacles?
Marriage and children bring a lot of joy to this world, but under what circumstances is this true?
Bottom line, at this time can you afford being married? Can you afford being married with children? Can you afford being married with children while paying off a car note, mortgage and student loans? These questions and concerns are more important than one’s biological clock.
Posted by Yeme on 03/24/2009 at 06:26pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Good observations here. I think what many of us are trying to say is that there is no particular size that fits all for all people – and having NO kids is an option too.
I think a man and his lady have to have some adult fun first – and I don't particularly mean sex. Just being together, doing things together – building the bedrock of a successful marriage or relationship. If I knew my wife was on a treadmill with making babies in mind – I would run away.
I think individuals have to be in agreement about when or if to have children. I don't think it's good for kids growing up to realize they are the reason a relationship exists – rather, they should realize they are only a part of a relationship. I had 8 male friends when I was younger – 6 of them either had a girlfriend or wife get pregnant within just a few months and without consulting the husband or boyfriend. 6 of 8 hit the road – due mostly to the deception and feeling the gf or wife was trying to trap them. Babies are 25 years if you do it right and many men don't want to spend the best years of their lives raising babies, dealing with potential delinquencies Some do want to do that but it's not a decision for either to make alone. For a man – having a wife doesn't necessarily mean having kids – It didn't with me and was a feeling I shared with my great wife of almost 40 years now. We both like kids but didn't want any of our own. We'd had a great life together and hope there is a lot more to come. We workout, play, watch birds, try to make money and are politically active as well. All these things would not have been possible had we had kids.
We do know that many women feel compelled to have kids and sometimes a lot of them. Some think that is the only reason they are alive. We think of that "what an empty person this is."
Thanks for your post
Posted by MajorHart on 03/25/2009 at 12:17am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Ummmmm…. what!?!? This is not only an unrealistic article, but quite bizarre. I had NO DESIRE what-so-ever to get married in my early 20's. And, I found it very hard to date men seriously without being educated. Most of the men that I dated were impressed with my drive and education and epressed that their expectation that their wife have a master's degree. I also had the desire to LIVE, date, travel… I married when I was 30. I'm still not sure if this is going to work out. I'm turning 33 next month. So, I'm supposed to have a child with someone that I'm not sure if we're not going to stay married? Getting married for the sake of getting married is disturbing. Get married because you're truly IN LOVE, no matter what age, when you're READY. If we all married when it was RIGHT and not by a "biological clock" perhaps more people would stay married.
Posted by fengshui on 04/05/2009 at 10:34pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Absolutely right
Posted by MajorHart on 05/17/2009 at 04:06pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
"second child before 34 to avoid the probability of a genetic abnormality"
You're being paranoid here…. There is still plenty of time to have a healthy baby. I'm turning 33 next month and I have no children yet. I married at 30, and now I'm not even sure if this marriage is going to last. But I'm not going to bring a child into this world simply because I feel compelled to by society. Yes, the risk increases as a woman reaches the 35-40 range, but many, many women have healthy, happy babies in the 35-40 range. And, I haven't felt READY to be a mom until now. And, I speak with knowledge regarding risks, as I am a nurse practitioner.
Posted by fengshui on 04/05/2009 at 10:42pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Penelope has done a fantastic public service through this article. The sad fact is that fertility takes a nose-dive at 35. If you think otherwise, go do your research. Sure somebody's aunt Sophie might have had a baby in her 40's, but she is the exception to the rule. And forget all the news reports about women having baby's in their 60's — none of them used their own eggs.
It is very painful for a couple to realize that they have spent too much time working their asses off to afford a decent house in a kid-friendly neighborhood with an extra room for the baby only to realize they're too old to have a baby.
Hopefully Penelope's article saved a few couples from this fate.
Posted by E on 04/08/2009 at 09:30pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
SO . . . life does NOT end if you never have a baby – if that's all you're living more – you're an empty shell of a human being.
Women often get the urge because their friends have babies, but that's not a good reason to have them.
Only if you and your partner want a baby and for your wn reasons and not as the only important thing in life.
MajorHart
Posted by John Hansen on 04/08/2009 at 09:50pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I'm certainly NOT advocating for people to wait until they are 40 years old to think about a baby. However, it is foolish to think that because someone is 35, that they shouldn't even try because of "risks". Yes, fetility declines as we age:
Pregnancy Rate (within 12 months of trying)
Ages 20 – 24: 86 Percent
Ages 25 – 29: 78 percent
Ages 30 – 34: 63 percent
Ages 35 – 39: 52 percent
These figures do NOT include fetility "boosters" such as Clomid and other treatments. As an NP, I see MANY, MANY women in their 30's having healthy, beautiful babies. I've been seeing more and more women in their 40's having babies too. I see miscarriages at ALL ages. I do not advocate having a baby while in an unstable marriage just to have a baby while in your 20's. Babies fon't "save" marriges. And, there is also absolutely nothing wrong with adoption! So, yes, fertility decreases with age, but from ages 25-29 to 35-39, it decreases by 26%, hardly a "nosedive". Once over 40, then it does indeed, decrease much more. I also do not "advocate" for having a baby in 18-22 range (unfortunately when fertility is the highest). That is incredibly young, and many people in this cohort have children for the wrong reasons, because they tend to make more "implusive" decisions. Children are NOT an experiment…..
Posted by fengshui on 04/08/2009 at 10:03pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
"Only if you and your partner want a baby and for your wn reasons and not as the only important thing in life."
Well said! :-)
Posted by fengshui on 04/08/2009 at 10:05pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Unfortunately or fortunately, depending on your perspective, you need to get the marriage right the first time. Popping out too babies before this 35 year deadline in some dead heat race is not going to help the kid if their parents are divorced. Some men, many men are not ready to have kids in their early 30's. My husband wasn't. Most men are older than their wives. So, women out there you need to have this conversation with your prospective husband even if right now in your 20's you swear you would never want to have kids. If you think you never want kids and you have the money, freeze your eggs! Egg quality is the major issue. Also, I would stress to those of you who haven't followed this neat little plan because of whatever reason that you should go to a reproductive endicronologist sooner rather than later and get basic fertility testing done for yourself (even if you are single) and on your man. There is ample evidence to suggest that men have a biological clock and that sperm that is over 35 years of age also begins to exhibit abnormalities that can result in higher incident of autism, schizophrenia. I just think that we should all be more educated. I think it is a travesty that OB's aren't required to start educating women on their fertility by the time they are 25 years of age. At least give them a brochure, something. So many young women just don't realize it. Me, I met my husband at 21, we broke up, we got back together. We married when I was 28. Husband wasn't ready and was several years older than me. Job sent me accross country without him and that took almost a year. A few months prior to turning 32, I started trying. After several miscarriages, I delivered a healthy baby boy at 34. If I have another child, guess what, I will be 35. Also, note that it is the age of conception, not delivery. And further, the cliff at age 35 is an average based on all women. You can have a Day 3 ovarian reserve/volume and FSH test done. When I had mine at 32 and at 34, my RE said that my fertility age was much younger. I menstruated much later at 15 and my mother went through menopause much later, there are lots of factors that can dictate your "fertility age". I think the main point is not to panic, but to get educated so that you are making educated decisions.
Posted by jcutter on 05/17/2009 at 03:41pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Absolutely right Thanks
Posted by MajorHart on 05/17/2009 at 04:08pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
What is so wrong about having kids? If your parents thought the same about you you would not be here.
I am 21 and married. I will finish my law degree in 2 years and I plan to complete my Masters thereafter. I am a determine person so I doubt having a child will stop me from accomplishing my goals as I hope to have a child during my life year for my Bachelors in Law.
Life is a balance. If you focus too heavily on one aspect you will have problems with another aspect. My mother was a nurse, a mother, a wife, and a student with four kids who are now a doctor, lawyer, police officer, and teacher. I am sure she did not have the financial funds the experts assist you must have before raising a child.
Having kids is both the husband and wife decision..however the husband should take into consideration that the wife is the one carries the child for 9 months…the wife has a time limit. When you make decisions be sensitive to that.
Life by itself throws many disasters,if a man allows the fact that his wife want a child to destroy his marriage then that is something to be sad about. It means both allow their selfishness to rule their happiness.
If a person wishes to wait then wait..if there is consequences then I'm sure you will deal with it.
If a person decides not to wait then cool do not make a woman seem stupid because she choose to give life.
For those who said there is no need to have kids…I wonder if they value their life. What if their parents thought the same way, then they would not be here to even say that. There is something life changing that a child brings..and if you teach the child good morals and values the child will make you proud, and be there for you in your old age.
I dont care how healthy I am at age 40 i would rather run behind a 2 year old in my 20s then 40s. When I reach 40 hopefully my kids will be out the house and my husband and I can get back to dating each other, enjoying life and visting our grandkids. Do you think you will see your grandkids if you have kids at 40, if your kids does the same thing you did.
I am married at 21 to a man 27, no kids, no second married..(no offense). You can be chossy when you reach a certian age. At my age I could.
There are exceptions to every rule and if you're an exception dont get offend. Eveyone is entitle to their own opinion.
Posted by Crystal on 06/07/2009 at 09:59pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Wow… lots of "opinionated" people here. Crystal, I do not believe that anyone has said that there is anything "wrong" with having children. It is just that things are changing A LOT in our country, and it just isn't as simple as it once was to have children…. I mean, there is no way in h*ll that my hubby and I could have 4 children. In my city, day care is on average $1,100 PER CHILD PER MONTH. That is 75% of our take home pay. But we can't live off of just one income because we're both fresh out of college. It just can't happen. I'm a woman and I just turned 33. My husband is 32. We've only been married for 3 years. First marriage for both of us. We're not ready for a baby yet. Does that make us bad people??? I think not. We're trying to do the right thing by not ending up bankrupt. I just graduated with my MS Nursing. I'm trying to pay off my student loans and credit cards first. Then, within a year, we can try for a baby, and maybe I might make enough for hubby to be a SAHD. We'll see. I feel plenty young and energetic for a baby. I couldn't imagine only being 40 and having a child in college, that seems bizarre to me because 40 is still "young" to me…. but we're all different. I have NO desire to be a grandmother before the age of 60…. lol.
Posted by fengshui on 06/07/2009 at 10:41pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Fengshui,
I believe every one situation is different. So one should do whats best for them. In my situation my kids would not attend day care. I have someone at home to take care of him or her. So from home he or she enters pre-school and on and on.
I agree 40 (or 50) is young thats why hopefully my first chidl will be young adults when i reach that age, and my hubby and I can have tons of years to our selves.
I treid to be extremely careful with my decisions so I dont have a any credit card bill and with regard to my student loan I save and put my monies in a fixed deposit so when I am finish with school I can use it to assist with my school loan payments and I presently work full time at a law firm.
If I have a child I probably will have one during my last year of school. I may be more confident because I have the assistance of my family, both my husband and I have a college education, etc..I dont know. But having one child at 23 to me is no big deal. As I dont plan to have any after 30 (joke: have to keep my slim figure naturally in shape) I may only have 3 kids 3 years apart.
It's my way everyone should find their own way. And if someone else opinion is different, I just dont want persons to be rude about it.
Posted by Crystal on 06/08/2009 at 02:12pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Wow! Great article. I got married at 21 to my college sweetheart, had first kid at 25, and am looking into either grad school (which, with prereqs will take 3 years)or kid number two now at age 27. I never knew there was evidence that having kids at least two years apart was best for them! Is there a link to that information? All this time, I have felt a little guilty for not "making him a friend" sooner…haha.
Anyway, straight out of college, I still really had no clue what I wanted to do with my life and was working a series of demeaning dead end jobs, like the deli at a grocery store for one. (I found out that a liberal arts degree isn't really all it's cracked up to be) Now that I have a concrete career goal, I feel like motherhood isn't going to be the end of me after all. It was also encouraging to hear that there is no evidence that working on the family first vs. the career will have hindered anything for me. And I feel like I wouldn't have made the choice to be a stay at home mother if I would have been making enough money to actually pay for childcare! And watching my son grow up every step of the way these last two years has been a priceless experience.
Thanks for the article!
Posted by Carrie on 06/27/2009 at 12:21pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
This advice is right on. I got married at 22 and people thought I was nuts. "Are you crazy? Go have a career! You could meet someone else! Young marriages break up within a couple of years!"
10 years later, we're still married. We have a three-year-old and while we've decided not to have more children, we certainly could in the next three years, if we wanted, without much anxiety. I am a mostly stay-at-home mom and my husband's career has taken off since I quit working full-time. Meanwhile, the women who counseled me to wait to get married are 32, really want to have kids before they fall off the 35-year-old fertility cliff, and are finding out that men our age and older are only interested in dating 25-year-olds. No one we know who didn't get married within 1-5 years of leaving college is married now, 12 years later.
It's a harsh and uncomfortable truth, but it is the truth. Get married young. Then you grow up together and end up creating compatibility as the years go by, instead of ending up on an endless search for it as you get older and more persnickety. I have friends now who I doubt will ever get married, as they are unwilling to compromise an inch when it comes to their lifestyle (which they've now enjoyed solo for over a decade).
Careers are great but kids are even better. if you're a woman who wants to have kids, you're in your early 20s, and you have a nice stable boyfriend who is good husband/father material and wants to get married – do it. Throw guys like that over for your brilliant career at your own peril. I guarantee you he'll find someone else and be married within a couple of years, and you may end up at 35 with your clock ticking like crazy and only toxic bachelors to choose from. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
Posted by Amy on 07/01/2009 at 01:46pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Amy-
My own life experience proves most of what you wrote is wrong. I'm 45 and have never been married- but I'm a guy who put his career ahead of marriage. I don't date 25 year olds, I date women around my age. And I date a lot. There are quite a few women in my area who have never been married and don't have kids, and they aren't bitter or anxious that they'll NEVER get married or have kids (at least around me). While we may be trying or hoping for marriage and parenthood in different degrees, what I don't see is a bunch of people who are regretting not getting married in their 20s. Quite the opposite.
The real truth is that a career is merely "great" and kids are better for YOU. The real truth is that some people are better off marrying in their 30s and 40s- and you aren't one of them. The real truth is that you're leading a life that many of us (esp. some women) don't want. We're all glad it's working out fine for you, but open your eyes and actually see the world and you'll see marriages and families being started later, and being the better for it.
I may be your toxic bachelor, but I'm going to be some 30/40 something woman's Mr. Right.
Posted by Paul on 07/02/2009 at 03:37am | permalink | Reply to this comment
You were just lucky – very lucky.
Do we know for sure that your husband wanted a baby at that young age (or did you nag him because of your agenda)and people in their early 20's are often not settled enough or sure enough in their relationship to risk having a baby or babies.
And you suggest that not having a baby or not be married is a bad deal – well for many it is not. Seeking personal fulfillment is not a crime and not having babies is also not a crime.
Glad it worked (works) for you and wish you a lot of success and happiness – but it's not for everyone or even many.
MajorHart
Posted by MajorHart on 07/01/2009 at 02:12pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
There are a lot of presumtions here…. to think that you can't "meet a man" and have children is ridiculous. I married at 30, and we're both 33 and still not sure "when" we want children. I don't believe in the "35 year old cliff", but then again, I'm a nurse practitioner and am very knowledgeable about fertility, and options, etc.
I have plenty of friends who are single and in their 30's and they are dating and meeting plenty of men. I don't know any men their late 30's or early 40's who are dating women who are 25. As a woman who was 25 not that long ago, I certainly wasn't interested in dating an "older man" when I was that age.
I also have seen my husband's friends wives almost ruin their marriages because of their "biological clock" that was ticking at age 26 or age 27. They practically forced their husbands to get them pregnant right after marriage and the men just wanted to "be married" for awhile. Give me a break. I just laugh at them. Silly girls.
Posted by fengshui on 07/01/2009 at 05:09pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I fully agree.
I knew a very nice woman who was 25 and already had two kids and no husband. She thought it was "old" at 30 years of age and in fact too old for her. We still had a lot of fun but she had an agenda to have more kids (one way or another) and I just wanted to be.
She's a lot older now and barely clinging to her 3rd marriage. Her husbands all balked at having more kids (so she dumped the first two marriages) and I expect she's a miserable person at age 66.
No matter what age they start at, people need a few years to just be together and have fun before starting to decide if they want kids or not.
Two is a family – the rest is up to them and not up to someone pontificating a particular scenario as the only one.
There is nothing wrong with having kids if both who would be parents want kids but with neither under any pressure from the other. There is also nothing wrong with not having kids.
A few have told me my wife really wanted kids no matter that she said she likes kids but when the end of the day comes -she's happy to leave them with their parents and go home. I think they are stereotyping all women as being the same.
MajorHart
Posted by MajorHart on 07/02/2009 at 07:05am | permalink | Reply to this comment
I can see Penelope's point about the fertility window, but I don't appreciate the overall tone of her article. It seems so calculating and controlling to try to PLAN events like finding a husband. Whatever happened to "you can't hurry love"? I think it just happens when it is going to. Some people are not meant to get married at all it seems, and others plan everything out with plenty of time only to be devastated by infertility. Even worse some people get married and have children before they are themselves mature enough to be parents- child abusers, alcholics, violent or selfish people whose children live with those scars for the rest of their lives. Statistics are fine for most areas of life, but I think the attitude in this article is pretty condescending and out of touch with reality.
Posted by Happy with That on 07/07/2009 at 03:18am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Well this is a new one for you Penelope!
Im 25 this year, I have two kids one 5 year old daughter and one 10 mnth old son…met my husband at 13 at a cousin's party, we dated through jr high and high school and college and have been together for 12 years, you could say we're married but we still havent got the marriage party going yet!
well ofcourse it wasnt all that sweet and fairytale like, we've had our fair share of downers….cheating, lying, abortion, fighting, breaking up, etc
well your article is a good one but we can really say i suppose when is the "right" time and moment to have kids, to have a career…it just comes. It wasnt in my books, but hey im here and all the better for it.
I became a better person with the journey Ive had.
I guess the best thing is, if you want it-go get it and enjoy while youre on your journey…its the journey thats important, not the destination.
Posted by tashi on 07/11/2009 at 06:47am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Hmmm. I don't think this will work for me. I only want to be with someone who is smart and accomplished, and I only want to be with someone who is looking for his equal in those areas, not his inferior. So I need the school/career in order to snag the man in order to have the kid. (By "accomplished," I'm not referring to hobbies.)
I do wish I could have kids first before career.
Why am I even commenting on this article? I already think that most people are chumps anyway. Of course I don't agree with some random article on the internet.
Never mind.
Posted by Connie on 09/18/2009 at 08:51pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
This is definitely thought-provoking, but doesn't discuss some of the other related issues. For example, *how* are women supposed to focus on meeting men in their 20's while men of the same age are focused on their careers? Answer: the mismatched goals conflict. Further, from my own experience, no 20-something male in my generation was/is interested in a woman who is baby-oriented. If you don't have a job/career and solid plans for your own financial independence, he's not interested. It's too much pressure for him to think about having to support you – much less future kids. Men at that age aren't interested (for the most part, though it's not true for all) in even *talking* about kids. Mention it to some men already in their 30's, and even they will find a way to excuse themselves from the conversation – even for those men who do see themselves having children one day.
As an unmarried, childless woman in my early 30's, this is something I worry about rather often. Unfortunately I can't turn back the clock, so I'm already technically out of time, by these standards. I considered children and family life when making career choices (even in my late teens), and I was certainly putting effort into finding a life partner. It just turned out – for me – that none of the men I met were of like mind, and I think that this is just as much a part of the equation.
Whether we, as women, pay much attention to what society tells us about needing to establish ourselves in our careers or not, the men who are so essential to the equation which results in children *are* paying attention.
Even though I'm happily involved in a long-term relationship now, my 30+ partner (who definitely wants kids some day) isn't interested in planning for marriage or kids right now. I have no choice but to be focused on the one thing that I can actually count on – myself, and my career. Rather, my other option would be to end a happy relationship in search of another (possibly less happy relationship) that may produce children on a shorter time line. I can't make a man have children with me (responsibly), but I am the only person I must rely on for excelling in my career. In my career, I can truly be self-sufficient. In making (and ideally *raising*) children, well….I can't very well (and have no wish to) do that by myself. ;)
Perhaps the solution for today's generation of women is to date men who are much older (35+) and ready to have children, financially and emotionally, or to have children out of marriage, or with men they don't necessarily wish to keep as life partners. I would hesitate to give my younger female friends that advice, but it certainly seems to be one of very few options for your suggestion to work, in my opinion. I don't disagree with the theory or the science of fertility – just with the application.
Posted by Anonymous on 10/06/2009 at 02:55pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Interesting observations.
The problem is that many men don't want kids at all and most women do. TO date or marry someone 15 years older just because they might be "willing" to have kids wouldn't work very well because they would be 55 or more by the time the kids were grown. Many of them also are concerned with the free tme and financial stability that having kids would generally wreck.
And young women need men nearer their own age group – there's a lot more going on that just planning for kids i.e. music, travel, dancing, dining, rock concerts and sex without responsibility – all part of the fun most younger people enjoy and should – young women with that baby fixation will usually find they don't have boyfriends at all.
I would think skipping that whole idea and seeing if things develop that way over time. I know a woman with having babies on her mind would have sent me running and most of my previous male friends as well. My wife and I are childfree and have been married (or together) 40 years – she didn't ever want to be a parent and I'm very happy about that. She doesn't seem to be missing a thing.
Thanks for your post.
John Hansen majorhart@sbcglobal.net
Posted by John Hansen on 10/07/2009 at 12:25am | permalink | Reply to this comment
There is a thing about such an advice: it might be helpful only to those, who actually *want* to have kids and are concisiously delaying having them because of their career.
I`m just not so sure that`s the reason most women who delay having kids do that.
I`m 23.I have a job I kinda like, and a profession I love, the one I want to have a career in. I also have no desire to get married and have kids in at least next 5 to 8 years. Are these two facts about me related in any way? No.
I dont want to get married and have kids anytime soon because I`m not sure I want to do any of that at all, pure and simple. In fact, me loving my professon is the only thing about myself I`m totally absolutely sure about.
Understanding myself is much more of a high priority for me than having kids, finding a husband or even a boyfriend. And if I will find, that I actually don`t want any of it – so be it. Being able to live with myself for years and years to come is my highest priority.
What I wanted to say: I might be the only one like that, but I think I`m not. And for many women (and men!) "I can`t do it right now because of…" is just an another, more socially acceptable way of saying "I don`t want it, at least not right now". To them such an advice basically reads like^ "Do it now, whether you want it or not!" And that doesn`t seem like a nice reason to have kids, especially if such a person will be unlucky enough to realize, they don`t actually want kids, after having them.
And then there are those, who would like to live by that lovely plan, but actually can`t. Because of money (not "I can`t afford those Manolos!", but "I can`t afford my own place to live!"), because of a spouse leaving them or not wanting to have kids, because of being sick… To them all this is just one more "SUCKS TO BE YOU!!!"
Maybe I`m just angry. You see. I was born im Moscow, Russia. I grew up and got my education there. I`m living there, and I don`t plan to leave anytime soon (sorry for the mistakes btw, my English isn`t exactly perfect). Attitudes towards a woman`s place in society are different here. We`re progressing, but really, really slowly. I like to read foreingh blogs because it`s nice to imagine there are better places out there. And here I read same old stuff about basically being a failure if I don`t find a man before I`m 30.
Posted by jae on 10/07/2009 at 05:14pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I don't think anyone should have to fit into a "place in society" but maybe they do it differently in Russia.
I think many men who go along with having kids do it t o get along with their wives that they usually love. And that's a poor reason – if you don't want kids the relationship will suffer and may fail – leaving both partners amd the kids on the short end of the stick. And often if there is one – there are 3, 4 or more.
I do imagine there as some guys who really do want kids and might be good fathers but I don't think they are that common or easy to find.
I wish you luck in whatever you decide to do.
We had some pressure from my wife's father but when she told him we just didn't want kids he backed off.
John Hansen
Posted by John Hansen on 10/07/2009 at 10:57pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
"because they would be 55 or more by the time the kids were grown. "
And?!? I'm 33, and I don't have children yet. I may be a rare person, but I FEEL young, and I don't care if I don't have a child until I'm 36. So what if I'll be 54 when they graduate from HS. To me, 54 is still young! My dad is 56 and rides a Harley, still goes out socially a lot. He looks young, he feels young. I think that a lot of it is attitude.
Posted by fengshui on 10/09/2009 at 08:57am | permalink | Reply to this comment
"As an unmarried, childless woman in my early 30's, this is something I worry about rather often. Unfortunately I can't turn back the clock, so I'm already technically out of time, by these standards."
You are NOT out of time! There are many men out there who seek intelligent, career driven, mature women in their 30's! Don't think this way! Once you hit 40+, then start to worry….
Posted by fengshui on 10/09/2009 at 09:05am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Does love at first sight truly exist? Can you make a date fall for you? How do you know whether the person personality is compatible with you? I always ask this question to myself when I am going out with strangers aka online friends where I meet them at facebook or friendster.
Posted by How to tell if someone is compatible to you on 12/07/2009 at 09:49pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Why all this obsession with biological children? After reading through some of these comments, I am still thoroughly disgusted by our society. What gives certain people the right to breed, anyway? Do you know how many babies there are that need clean water, shelter, food, etc? Why not adopt one of them?
I am a professional woman, a college graduate, and I have no desire to have crotch fruit, aka babies. And this sort of disdain for those who do not want children really irks me; the people who say that children "change you for the better" or "make you prioritize" are fools, if you think that way then you should not be breeding in the first place. I pay my taxes, donate plenty to charity, travel, and love my life– I have my priorities straight, thanks much.
I am glad to be childless, I would much rather volunteer my time to make someone else's life better. That is much more gratifying than labor and delivery, in my opinion.
I actually think that men have it right: go to college, get a job, experience life and the world. I have seen waaayyy too many women give up their careers and their identities to child-rearing, only to realize that they made a very bad decision. Somtimes, when I am around my friends who used to be fun, I actually feel guilty for saying "my life is pretty awesome, I have a great job and I travel everywhere!", because I can see the dispair on their faces. Maybe if they had waited a few more years, they wouldn't be in such a predicament.
Posted by the Sarge on 12/10/2009 at 12:26pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I'm with you. My wife and I chose to NOT have chldren and now that we are older – we are very glad of that decision. There's a lot of reasons but the events of America and the world makes it a very unhospitable place for anyone and little further for new adults.
We've been in Insurance and Real Estate and a lot of travel. That'w what we wanted to do with our lives. MY wife and I like kids but when it's time to go home -we enjoy leaving them with their parents.
I don't think there's anything especially wrong with having kids but I think so many women who think that's the only reason for living are shorting themselves.
There's got to be more than just popping babies. I've had a number of women dump me when I told them I didn't ever want to be a parent and that's okay with me.
Congrats on standing up for yours and my lifestyle choices
John Hansen
Posted by John Hansen on 12/10/2009 at 11:04pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Are you kidding?!
Are you a reproductive specialist?
No, you're not!
Yes, one's odds of conception are reduced with increasing age. But who cares..it's a choice for me and other women not to settle for a mediocre partner as well.
So many I grew up with are divorced after getting married in their 20s and having that "perfect" family by 30.
It's better to wait and marry the person you're truly meant for, than to look specifically for a sperm donor. It's so laughable.
Posted by Cat on 01/11/2010 at 08:46pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I fully agree Cat.
Many choose to not have kids at all.
For those that do want them – did they BOTH want them – too often only the woman wanted babies. For those that are in a rush – that's not a good environment for a baby to come into.
MajorHart
Posted by MajorHart on 01/11/2010 at 10:12pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
I wish that our society was more accepting of married couples who choose to NOT have children. I'm 33 and my husband is 32. We're not sure if we want children yet. We're both highly educated and love our jobs and our life, the fact that we get eight hours of uninterrupted sleep every night, that we can just rush off on a last minute trip, enjoy time with friends without having to worry about when we have to be home, etc. We know that having a baby would change all of that. My mother-in-law is almost disgusted that we are toying with the idea of choosing to not be parents. Why is that so bad?
Posted by jenni on 01/11/2010 at 10:34pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
This is one of the most sensible pieces of advice for women I have read in a long time. What many women don't realize is that men who are truly up to the task of being good husbands and fathers are not very impressed with a woman's ability to run a big corporation or climb the so-called corporate ladder. We want a woman who is truly wise—someone who knows what is important and goes after it. To such men, dedication to family; being an excellent mother, wife and companion is far more attractive than sitting on the boards of directors at a fortune 500 company.
It is a well known fact that the most "successful" women in America are unmarried (e.g. Condoleeza, Sotomayor, etc). While it is understood that some of these women chose not to be married, the fact still remains that excessive focus on career by a woman is a big negative for a good family life.
Well done, Penelope
Posted by dave on 01/14/2010 at 07:45am | permalink | Reply to this comment
Thanks Penelope! I've been worrying about this aspect of career planning for a while and your clear, logical, evidence-based guidance really spoke to me.
I'm 22, a recent grad working as a per diem substitute teacher with no health insurance or better prospects in a market flooded with teachers. This prompted me to look into taking that background and transition into a human resources position as my day job and flirting with entrepreneurial event planning interests on the side.
I want to pay off my student loans before I make any big moves like getting married or having children, but I'm having trouble finding work that will provide a salary that will meet these needs and provide a group benefits plan. Anyone have any advice?
Posted by Angela on 01/24/2010 at 01:15pm | permalink | Reply to this comment
Wow, I am very surprised at all these comments claiming "98.9%" of women want babies and plan for it from their 10th birthday, and that almost all men don't want children. I'm 26 and married, and don't plan on ever having children. Most of my girlfriends who are my age and newly married have husbands pushing for kids, but they aren't ready for them yet. I've had two long term relationships where the guy left me when I firmly stated my intention to never get pregnant.
This article doesn't bother me, it was obviously written as advice towards people who WANT to have children. There are plenty of web resources supporting people that don't want children, try the Child Free boards when everyone around you seems simply appalled that you would choose not to reproduce.
Posted by Deborah on 01/26/2010 at 08:54am | permalink | Reply to this comment
AFter 10 years of marriage I tossed the birth control at the age of 33. I told my husband that if he did not want kids, then the responsibility of birth control was now his. I was through putting synthetic hormones into my body.
And so we began our adventure to try to conceive. At 34 I got pregnant. 8 weeks later I miscarried. 2 years later I am still trying to conceive.
Do I regret waiting? No. Will my husband and I be happy if we never have kids? Yes. Do I think that Penelope is trying to "dictate" a life plan for everyone? No.
I believe that Penelope is saying that you can apply business planning techniques to your life. (i.e. choosing a goal then working backwards from that goal to ensure that the necessary steps are on place to succeed). Sure, babies can "just happen" for many, but for many others they won't.
Posted by Pregnant Yuppy on 01/26/2010 at 10:16am | permalink | Reply to this comment
My polls indicate what I said and personal experiences with many friends did also. You're a breath of fresh air in a very biased environiment. Thanks
My wife also was. We both like kids but didn't want any of our own. She still says she could not have ever wanted her own kids.
I didn't have any male friends that wanted kids soon if at all and I made no effort to pick that kind.
naturlly I wasn't well liked by the females in my acquaintances and in fact 3 of them got pregnant to trap their boyfriends. 2 were dumped. The rest said they would not get pregnnt for a few years and all were within 3 months of getting married.
there is so much more to life that having kids. Having kids is okay too if it's not the only reason for the relationhip and even for life.
Thanks again.
MajorHart
Posted by MajorHart on 01/26/2010 at 10:20am | permalink | Reply to this comment
I find most men I meet are afraid to have kids right away. My former boyfriend, who I met when I was 32( he was only 24) at the time we talked about marriage after dating for 2 years I just turned 34 at the time… he realized that he was not ready to have kids by the time I am 35 so we broke up. Now I am single and 35. I have a great job…I mean is this my fault? My issue is not all men want to have kids. So even if you marry early, if it turns out your husband is not into kids, it doesn't really matter. women is best off taking care of herself with careers
Posted by Catherine on 02/07/2010 at 02:22pm | permalink | Reply to this comment