How to cope with the need for external validation

The reason I’m not homeless after basically taking a year off from writing is that I have been doing a lot of coaching. I say career coaching, but honestly, no one over 30 has a career problem. All problems that look like career problems are really something else.

But the only coaching most people can justify spending $350 on is coaching that will lead to making more money. So people hire me to talk about their career and they realize they do not have a career problem. After talking with me for ten minutes. So with the remaining 50 minutes I do career coaching about non-career problems.

I love talking with the people who call. It takes a smart, curious, brave person to set up a coaching session with me. If you read this blog for even just a tiny bit of time you know there will be no beating around the bush. A lot of people cry. And I tell them, “Don’t worry, a lot of people cry. And anyway, I have Aspergers so I can just ignore it.”

Well. If they want me to. Or I can express empathy. But for sure no one is signing up for a coaching session because they heard I’m great with empathy.

I get lonely. I spend all day with my kids. They say interesting things, like, “Mom, why are you so forgiving to everyone in your life? I think you have Stockholm Syndrome.” But in spite of that, or maybe because of that, I need to talk to adults; I need to talk to someone who I don’t cook dinner for.

Actually, I have had a few people over for dinner and in-person coaching. They begged, so I tried it once, and I liked it. I charged double. That might be why I liked it. But it’s fun to cook dinner and talk about someone’s life.

I coach a lot of people at Google, and sometimes I keep in touch. One of those people is a woman who recently had a baby and is trying to figure out what path to take moving forward. Google is not particularly family friendly. Of course they say they are family friendly, but there are no people at Google moving up the ladder while being the parent in charge of young kids. There are people moving up the ladder with a stay at home spouse, or a team of nannies.

Anyway, this woman I am corresponding with is obsessed with what other people are doing with their kids. I get that. I am always looking around at who is doing what so that I can do it that way, too. But when you spend your whole life competing – in school for grades, then at work for titles and for money — and then you have a baby, it’s disorienting when you start looking for the competition.

She has found the alternative ways parents who cannot compete at work can continue to measure themselves in order to find external validation. For example, sleeping through the night (nice for parents; irrelevant for the future happiness of a child) or getting into the right preschool (this woman has discovered schools don’t like to take kids with IQs higher than 130 because they are too much trouble to deal with).

Anyway, I confess that I love the information she digs up, but I think it’s messed up that she’s obsessed with finding another way to compete. And, on top of that, I think I am aiding and abetting in her misguided attempts to find another way to get external validation now that she has a kid. I feel like a heroin dealer. Every time she brings me fascinating data, I tell her she is fascinating, and then she does more.

Being a new mom is lonely – you don’t really have a solid new identity to hold on to, and you don’t really have any mom friends yet. New mom life is a life unmoored. I think probably she is just lonely and she deals with loneliness by seeking external validation.

Not that I, too, do not want to be fascinating. I want you to think I’m fascinating. But in the sort of trusted friend kind of way, or at least trusted paid friend so that you’d want to talk to me but you’d know that if you paid for a coaching session I would not divulge everything about you, like I am in this post.

Well, I am not divulging everything. I mean, there are thousands of women who fit this profile. But the truth is I asked her before I wrote about her, and she’s thrilled because she wants to be doing something that matters.

I have found that the most messed up people I coach are the ones who most need external validation. Another interesting thing: all S types need external validation. They care about rules and duty and want admiration that they are approaching those important markers with competence. They want acknowledgment for doing the right thing.

But I don’t coach many S types. They are concrete thinkers and not particularly interested in analyzing themselves or planning the future. People who I coach want to make sure they have a plan that will allow them to self-actualize. S types won’t even read this paragraph. They will get to self-actualize, quit reading, and go to the gym. Or the garden. Depending.

So I coach N types and you can imagine, the NTs do not give a shit what anyone thinks of them. I am like, the most insecure NT in the history of the universe, and I still let you guys write in the comments section that I’m a narcissist idiot and I’m destroying my children. So really, trust me that NTs do not need external validation.

This leaves the NFs. I coach mostly NFs and their number-one problem, no matter how old or what stage of life they are in, they want external validation. But the people NFs want external validation from are the NTs and the NTs don’t care about anyone enough to give them validation. This is not to say that NTs do not give praise. We do. In order to move things along. And, for the most part, we are horrified when someone thinks we need external validation from them.

So I coach NFs about how to not be so concerned about external validation and just do their life. The people who have the hardest time doing this, by the way, are INFJs, because they are reticent to admit how much they seek external validation; you can’t solve a problem if you don’t admit it’s there.

Still, my favorite people to coach are INFJs. Because they know so much about everyone but they have big blind spots about themselves. And, as someone with Aspergers, I have a good understanding of the blind spot thing. A blind spot means you don’t know you have a blind spot, so when someone tells you something is off, it’s mind-blowing.

For an Aspergerian (is that a word?) it’s mind-blowing to hear, for example, that people care if their socks match. I mean, now it’s not mind-blowing, but when I was not matching socks, it just never ever occurred to me that people care. It’s so much work for so little reward. That was my thinking.

The corollary for an INFJ is they are shocked to hear that half the world does not care about values. The INFJ feels they are winning the competition for living life according to one’s values. So they are shocked to hear that the rest of the world isn’t even in the competition.

For the INFJ it’s not enough to live according to their values. They want to be recognized and respected for that. The INFJ will say, “Everyone wants respect.” Then they will be shocked to hear that is not true.

We spend so much time trying to find out what the game is, and find the rules, and then win. School is like that, and money is like that, but for the most part, the rest of life is not. So the hardest thing in life is to get an internal compass that allows you to measure yourself against your own values and your own goals. You have to find your own, internal way to validate your choices in life.

I, for example, do not want your respect. I just want you to read to the end of this post so that I feel like I had a conversation. Because it’s midnight and I don’t have a call lined up from Australia tonight, so I’m lonely.

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118 replies
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  1. Sue @ Stepfamily Lifeline
    Sue @ Stepfamily Lifeline says:

    While reading this, I thought “i don’t think I need a lot of external validation” and then I got to “INFJs, because they are reticent to admit how much they seek external validation.”

    I do enjoy getting likes on facebook… maybe you’re onto something.

  2. Pam
    Pam says:

    I’m an NT. The problem is not many people know it. For you see, I’ve had to cover it up for years to fit the stigma of mother, wife, and teacher. Now that I’m 62 and retired I’m starting to let the NT free. I don’t think people know what to do with me. Should I say, “TOO bad, baby!”

    Thanks for your awesome words. Stay real.

    • Adrianne
      Adrianne says:

      I love your site! I’m getting into (slowly) charting a course in a more creative direction, and it’s nice to see examples of how other people showcase their work! Ad

  3. E (INFJ)
    E (INFJ) says:

    My husband is an INTJ, but seems to need external validation–especially recently. Could it be that the external validation is needed only in times of extreme stress? Or did we get his type wrong? Generally he is spot on with INTJ traits.

    • ann
      ann says:

      As an INTJ, I can only tell you about the times that I needed external validation. I need it when I am about to change directions in my life or take a big risk in my life. Then I look to people that I admire or look up to for approval. I want reassurance that this change/risk is the right thing to do for me. Otherwise, I am satisfied with my ability to make appropriate decisions.
      However, I frequently seek out the opinions and insights of others whom I respect as I attempt to solve a problem or gain additional knowledge about a topic.
      A good many INTJs are autodidacts, which means they rapidly learn about topics. At the beginning a learning curve, I often seek out experts in a given area. Here is a trite example, I wanted to plant ground cover in an area that was riddled with crabgrass. I was told that I had to wait until spring. But I wanted to plant now, but I was not sure how to do it. After a week or so, I figured out how to plant ground cover so that it would not have crabgrass in the spring. As Implemented the method that I devised, I longed for an experienced gardener to tell me that my method would work. Once I finished planting, I was confident about my approach; I no longer needed anyone to tell me that my approach was clever.
      I know this may sound like a stupid example, but INTJs can be insecure. In this example, it required a ton of manual labor and some expense. But my ground cover is growing well.

  4. Carmen
    Carmen says:

    Enfj here. Perhaps it’s different for us but I do not need external validation. It’s a bit more nuanced than that. I’m married, and when a couple needs to make big life decisions, they have to do it together. That’s being mature. It has nothing to do with validation.

    If I’m at work and my boss happens to be a jerk, I don’t want his validation. What I would want is more money and a raise for being one of the few people in this world that can tolerate such a pompous arrogant jerk. That’s not needing external validation. That’s a method for preventing burnout when working with difficult people.

    If a narcissistic family member won’t acknowledge that she/he has issues and is being malicious behind an Enfj’s back, the enfj doesn’t need validation from this family member. What the enfj wants is harmonious family gatherings not filled with unnecessary tension.

    So maybe it’s different for an infj, but I don’t think that the validation rule applies to an enfj, unless I’m deviating from the norm, which is possible.

    The enfj also has no interest in controlling other people or situations. What they want is control over their own lives. If an outsider interferes, then the enfj will try to heal whatever the problem is so they can move on without dealing with that person.

    • inthetrunk
      inthetrunk says:

      “If a narcissistic family member won’t acknowledge that she/he has issues and is being malicious behind an Enfj’s back, the enfj doesn’t need validation from this family member. What the enfj wants is harmonious family gatherings not filled with unnecessary tension.”

      Let me save you a lot of time and frustration. This person will not change. Narcs are addicted to drama. It is their drug of choice. My sisters and I are in our fifties now, and the narcissist is getting worse. Adopt a zero tolerance policy, or weddings, reunions, etc., will continue to revolve around the narc’s issues. If need be, do not invite him/her to family functions.

  5. inthetrunk
    inthetrunk says:

    Great post. I have very recently changed my course of action in caring for my elderly mom. I was all about being dutiful and taking her to appointments and to play cards, etc. Then she yanked my chain so hard I realized how my Cluster B mind-fuck sister is not working alone. I recently listened to a youtube that said ‘don’t be the hero.’ Well, I’m not anymore. For almost a month now I stopped taking Mom to appointments. She has other relatives and friends for that. I plan to do crafts and play cards with her…the fun stuff she really needs. She can call a cab for the rest.

  6. Laura
    Laura says:

    I think the reason why INFJs like this blog it that your writing captures the types of observations that we INFJs make about other types so well, and in a very direct way.

    Being an INFJ, and a new-ish Mom, I think a lot of points on this post really resonate with me.

  7. Denise Canellos
    Denise Canellos says:

    Being a parent with kids at home can be very lonely. You are brave to admit that Penelope. I imagine homeschooling can be even lonelier, especially in a new city. I hope you and the boys find some friends in your new home, you deserve it.

    As for external validation, as an ENFP I seek it too. Its so hard when I feel people don’t like me when I am trying so hard to do the right thing. Now that I know some people don’t get external validation and don’t understand others need it, I can relax a little. People can not like me and I will be fine, right?

    Oh my gosh, now I’m wondering if people will think my comment is dumb. Luckily I can laugh at myself.

  8. Allison
    Allison says:

    Of course, I read to the end. Of. Of course the author is an ENTP on the spectrum. A friend on the spectrum who isn’t going to get into an out of balance empathy loop with my ENFJ self is a pie-in-the-sky fantasy friend. 😛

  9. Tina
    Tina says:

    Penelope!!! This had me rolling. I am an INFJ and I have had so many of those exact moments! Just recently when a student stole from me, I was so horrified and convinced the world is in ruin. Once she stole, I started to notice the low moral standards of those around me, and honestly, it was a couple days to regroup my emotional state.

    You really are just one of the best writers I have ever read. I love your phrasing and you clear pointed statements. I think you should be friends with David Sedaris and write a book so I can die happy.

    I would probably drink in everything you said.

    Please keep writing because I am an isolated mother with a career. I agree when you discuss loneliness and motherhood. I do think you can be extreme, but my children are currently mastering their first of three languages so I really am no woman to judge. So I imagine this is one of the huge gaps I can’t see.

    Also, reading all your posts feels like a conversation to me, so I would say you succeeded.

  10. Michael
    Michael says:

    ENTJ’s have values. We just don’t need to dwell on them. And we don’t need to leave comments. But I’m happy to do so because you said you’re lonely. When I read your posts, they sound so conversational, yet they are spot on in terms of wisdom. “She’s talking about me again… and my wife”. And I laugh and laugh. Still laughing.

  11. Rayne of Terror
    Rayne of Terror says:

    ISFP here. I read every post to the end and many of them two or three times. I AM terrible about planning for the future. I’ve had to teach myself to plan things 6-8 weeks in advance just to get my friends who are planners to do anything with me. But at the same time I’m not bothered by other’s lack of planning. Hockey starts for my 8 yr old in one week. It’s going to be 3 days a week for the next six months and there’s no schedule for team yet. I know from running youth rec league tball, parents are freaking out because they are planning weekends 4 months from now. I’m just hanging loose, knowing the next six months will look however they look and we’ll deal with it as it comes.

  12. harris497
    harris497 says:

    Penny,
    Marcel Proust is reputed to have written, “The real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new lands but seeing with new eyes.” By facilitating others in achieving paradigm shifts (reality checks), you give a gift or a curse. Do you know what percentage of the time it is one or the other, and how often does it happen for you while working your magic?
    Peace.

    • Ann
      Ann says:

      For INTJs, sharing perception is tricky business. People either hate or love my ability to cut to the chase. I worked for many years as a consultant who someone who deeply admired this trait.
      I can tell you that narcissists hate cut to the chase percrptions. To function in the world, I have adopted a series of phrases that make my insights more palatable, i.e. less threatening. Such as” Perhaps I am making this up, however” or ” I may be way off base, but what about..” or ” Maybe my recollection is off base, however”. However Inwas in my 40s before I learned about these phrases.
      BTW, this blog makes me feel much less lonely.
      In a good many cases, I keep my insights as an INTJ to myself. More harmony results.

  13. Annie
    Annie says:

    You nailed it, P!!!! Welcome back to the blogging saddle. Or not, if you don’t feel like writing more after this. But either way this was a homerun. Probably because I like reading about myself as an INFJ but still, you captured a beautiful narrative arc that is your signature.

    I spend so much time bugging Melissa and what I’m usually trying to do, as she’s helped me see, is pursue as many shortcuts as possible. There’s a connection between me looking for external validation and being a spectator, not a participant, in life. I blithely default to bypassing any sort of hard work related to being present and confident in my choices in real time. Yet, as you write, that’s dumb:

    So the hardest thing in life is to get an internal compass that allows you to measure yourself against your own values and your own goals. You have to find your own, internal way to validate your choices in life.

    I can’t check out and float above my actual self. I don’t even always recognize when I’m doing that. But your article is going to help me become more aware. Just like you and Melissa already do – you help me live a better life.

    Thank you, not like you care. :)

  14. Annie
    Annie says:

    You nailed it, P!!!! Welcome back to the blogging saddle. Or not, if you don’t feel like writing more after this. But either way this was a homerun. Probably because I like reading about myself but still, you captured a beautiful narrative arc that is your signature.

    I spend so much time bugging Melissa and what I’m usually trying to do, as she’s helped me see, is pursue as many shortcuts as possible. There’s a connection between me looking for external validation and being a spectator, not a participant, in life. I blithely default to bypassing any sort of hard work related to being confident and present in my choices in real time. Yet, as you write, that’s dumb:

    “So the hardest thing in life is to get an internal compass that allows you to measure yourself against your own values and your own goals. You have to find your own, internal way to validate your choices in life.”

    I can’t check out and float above my actual self. I don’t even always recognize when I’m doing that. But your article is going to help me become more aware. Just like you and Melissa already do – you help me live a better life.

    Thank you, not like you care. :)

  15. Caitlin Timothy
    Caitlin Timothy says:

    I feel like I can mark the last 3 years of my life with your different blog posts. You do feel like a friend, and I’m so glad you’re back.

    You did help our marriage so much in our coaching session (INFJ/INTJ pairing- I’m the INFJ, which is obvious because I’m using so much relational language in this comment).

    I hope you’re well, all things considered. I’ve been worried that you’re depressed, and wondering what depression looks like with asperges.

    Also, it’s true that preschoolers with +130 IQ are more difficult. I have a very bright almost-3-year-old that I’m home with all the time 😳😳😳 (if I use emojis in a comment, does that count as looking unintelligent?). But I wonder… does the preschool really do an IQ test and then tell the parents that they can’t take the too-intelligent child? That seems so awkward to pull off.

  16. Jen
    Jen says:

    Yup, as an INFJ I’ve only recently been able to admit I care (way too much) about what others think of me. I’ve been thinking about this a lot lately as it relates to housework. I’m forever trying to figure out how to get my husband to contribute more or care about it less, and obviously I have a lot more control over the latter. Realizing and admitting it is one thing, I still have to figure out how to not care so damn much.

    I’ve also spent a lot of time thinking about and trying to judge my success by my own internal compass. I started a new job recently where I’m often bored, but I remind myself that I chose this job because it fits so well into my life in other ways (close to home, good hours, good benefits). I credit much of my ability to re-frame to your INFJ course, Penelope (which I only ended up in after erroneously signing up for and thinking I was an INTJ … hahahahaa). So thank you!

  17. Christi
    Christi says:

    Penelope, I never know where your posts are going but I read to the end and you always somehow tie it all together in a surprising and perfectly true way.

  18. Mark W.
    Mark W. says:

    “Often the question “what do you want to be when you grow up?” is too broad and open-ended for students. Students end up gravitating toward fields where they’ve received external validation.”
    That’s a quote from an article I just read that was published two days ago titled – ‘Helping Teens Find Purpose: A Tool For Educators To Support Students’ Discovery’ at KQED (Mind/Shift) – https://ww2.kqed.org/mindshift/2017/09/25/helping-teens-find-purpose-a-tool-for-educators-to-support-students-discovery/ .
    I do my fair share of reading about education and the ways people learn. It’s something I have found to be of great interest as it’s a way to know myself (and other people) better. The article above is not about the academics necessary for high school students to achieve so they can move on to the next step on the ladder – college. The article is about the student’s self-discovery so they are able to find purpose and thus prepare them for life with necessary skills they can use for the rest of their lives. It is difficult work for the student to examine and reflect on passions and balance them with realistic and attainable goals. It is helpful to have input and assistance from the educator and parent. I’m tempted to sling a few arrows at colleges and universities but that would be foolish and serve no purpose here. Especially as I went to one, enjoyed it, and benefited from the experience. However, college is not for everyone and there are too many students unprepared for college – both academically and knowing the purpose for why they’re attending. It’s nice to have external validation but not to be used as a way to set your internal compass. The same internal compass that needs monitoring and occasionally resetting for a lifetime.

  19. Ian
    Ian says:

    I loved this. I’m an INFJ and the second half of the article floored me — essentially because it was so brutally true, though I had not been wanting to admit it. I have zero capacity for internal validation — I believe everything I do is awful until someone tells me otherwise.

    The only gripe I have is that the title seems to promise some sort of solution. I was a bit upset to find that the solution seems to be, “INFJs just need to not need so much external validation.” But I appreciate the opportunity to reflect. It gives me more direction with what to work on.

  20. Anna
    Anna says:

    Great post. So nice to read. Thank you.

    Coincidentally, it is 12:09 am here, and I think I enjoyed reading the post because I’m sitting here next to my awake 3 year old watching Hello Kitty, feeling a little like some conversation while my husband is out driving for Lyft until 5am. Not exactly lonely (I rarely get lonely… INTP) but comforted by a long, thoughtful, ruminating, but smart, narrative.

    He is an INFJ, I recently discovered. I had always thought he is an INTJ, so it was really helpful when I realized his actual type. Conversations became suddenly “unlocked” with this key of information. Formerly, I would speak logic, he would speak values, and I just naturally tried to reason with him like he was an INTJ. I finally figured out when realizing his true type to just listen to him and validate him and it helped a lot. It’s frustrating though to watch someone live according to values so much.

  21. Mew
    Mew says:

    I’m actually more surprised that INFJs are surprised that the rest of the world don’t revolve around values. I technically test as INFJ but I’m often out of tune with other INFJs. What’s going on?

    If I were to imagine a perfect life, it’s solitude with a lot of freedom, money and experimenting with a lot of interests. Making ideas come into fruition. I never socialize except for work and don’t care if I have no friends so there’s no one I want to get feedback from – although I do want someone close to me. I have my husband for that and it’s enough. And it may be cruel and spiteful to say this: the main reason I still keep in contact with my family is because I really want my parents’ inheritance…otherwise I have no problem never contacting them again. I’m acting the way they want (aka seeking validation) so one day I can beef up the means to do what I want.

    Having worked along side with INTJs, I’m sure I’m not that similar to them. The liking to win part is just a means to an end to me.

    • Ann
      Ann says:

      Sounds like an INTJ to me. As PT says, INTJs love to win. The stakes in your game are high. Money is both power and freedom. I play for $$$, too.

      • carm
        carm says:

        The only thing money buys is discretion. Discretion does not make you powerful. It makes you someone who has many things to hide.

        Influence is power. In order to gain influence you need nothing more than a voice and people willing to listen.

        That’s why they say there never is a true winner because the prize for winning games in life is a more bleak perspective on reality.

        The most content, happy and heart-healthy people don’t play the games. They’re just are.

  22. Erik
    Erik says:

    Hmmmm.

    What an interesting collection of thoughts.

    Apparently I just found a new book to read.

    I just read your What INFJ’s Need post. Saw this and felt my NF side must know….my NT side literally couldn’t care…. My Aspy facet stays neutral because, well phones are glowy and they have buttons.

    *That terrifying moment when you realize you just might have found the kind of help you’ve always needed*

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