How to deal with getting fired (from Yahoo)
I just got fired from Yahoo Finance.
The long road to my quick termination started in the spring, when I grew friendly with one of the higher-ups in engineering at Yahoo. When he became my boss’s boss’s boss at Yahoo, he suggested that we meet if we were ever both in New York at the same time.
It turned out that we would both be there in December, so I asked him if he wanted to get together, and he said yes. His secretary said she’d email me the venue when the date was closer.
The week before, the venue turned out to be the Yahoo offices in New York. I thought that was weird for a casual meeting with a guy who did not even have his own office at that building. That is when I should have called to find out if we had a specific topic for the meeting.
When I got to the meeting my boss’s boss was there as well, so I knew there was a big topic. I told myself to never ever walk into another meeting in my life without knowing who is coming and why I am there. I told myself to stay calm and start looking for clues about our topic so I could mentally prepare.
They went on and on about some sort of technical problem that was happening that day. Of the three of us, two were nontechnical, so I realized this topic was selected due to nervous energy: A clue that this meeting would be really bad.
To his credit, the guy I thought I was friendly with got right down to the point: “We are not renewing your contract.”
The first thought I had was: When is my contract up?
And then I realized: Oh. Now.
The next thought I had was: Be poised. Do not break down right now.
I have been fired a lot. Sometimes it has not mattered, like when my grandma fired me from her bookstore because I kept reading on the job. Sometimes it has been a bad scene with me shaking because I was so scared – like when I was fired at Ingram Micro for using the computer for non-work-related stuff (Yes, people got fired for that in 1995.)
But I checked in with myself at Yahoo and realized that I was fine. I was not going to cry. I was actually in problem-solving mode.
So I asked why I was being fired.
Maybe you are thinking it’s because every week, 400 people leave comments on Yahoo saying how stupid I am. (And surely today’s final column at Yahoo Finance will break records for she-is-so-stupid comments.) But that’s not the reason my column was cancelled; Yahoo is about traffic, and according to Wikipedia, my column has some of the highest traffic on all of Yahoo.
It turns out that financial content gets a higher CPM (advertising rate) than career content. So while my column has a lot of traffic, Yahoo sells my career column to advertisers as part of the Yahoo Finance package, and I bring down the CPM of the whole package.
That’s a fair reason to cancel the column. And actually, if it were not resulting in a huge financial hit for me, it would be an interesting reason.
Here’s what a career advisor does when she is being fired: She tries to remember the advice she gives to everyone else when they are getting fired.
I asked if there’s another place I can write at Yahoo. This tactic is straight out of the book: Use your last moments to network, even if you are getting fired.
Here’s what my boss’s boss’s boss said: “You should write for Lifestyles. That is more women oriented.”
Immediately I was reminded of when my column was cancelled at Business 2.0 magazine. After I had recently announced that I was pregnant and said I did not plan to take any time off from writing the column.
My editor told me, as he was firing me, “Now that you’re going to be a mom you should try writing someplace like Working Mother.”
This advice from ex-bosses makes me question my own advice about getting help from people who are firing you. But still, discussions progressed at Yahoo to HotJobs, which is a Yahoo channel, and I could end up writing for them.
Also, a big trade publication called me last week to see if I want to write a column for them. The editor said that she sees me as such a huge risk taker, and she expects that the column will be a lot about that – how to take risks.
The thing is, I don’t think I’m a huge risk taker. I just choose the lifestyle I want first, before I choose my work. Lifestyle first means that I turned down entry-level bullshit jobs in favor of playing professional beach volleyball. Not because I was dying to have all my friends think I was a lunatic, but because I couldn’t believe people expect you to do mindless work after earning a college degree.
And the same is true now. I am a freelance writer because if I worked nine-to-five I wouldn’t see my kids. That’s my bottom line. There have been so many times when I’ve told myself that I can’t stand the instability of a freelancer’s life. But more than that, I can’t stand the idea that I would only see my kids on the weekends.
People ask me all the time how can they get this life that I have where I do something I love, get to make my own hours, and support a family. Seems great, right? But that life also comes with this: having no idea how I’ll get paid next. And it happens all the time.
Soon, I hope, I’ll be able to draw a salary from my startup. And my speaking career is going well enough that getting fired from Yahoo won’t kill me. But I am worried, and I think about not telling people that I feel worried because everyone who is negotiating with me now knows that money is super important to me, and I’m probably not going to walk away from an offer.
But more important than preserving an edge negotiating money is somehow documenting how hard it is to be true to yourself, how hard it is to be at risk all the time. It’s a tradeoff. Sometimes my life looks glamorous. Sometimes it doesn’t. It’s all the same life though.
You’ll be missed, but then again, I’m a blog subscriber.
Keep rockin’ Penelope and God bless you and your family.
I’ve enjoyed reading your column on Yahoo, and will continue reading you here. Good luck! :)
I’m sorry this has happened to you, even if I didn’t agree with much of your career advice. This has got to be an especially difficult time, with your marital issues as well. I hope you and your husband pull through, and that you land back on your feet quickly. Sometimes, though, all hell has to come crashing down for you to change your focus, and get onto a new track. Good luck for the new year, and please keep writing.
"You should write for Lifestyles. That is more women oriented."
HOLY CRAP! How did you not start cracking up laughing when he said that?
At any rate, brighter days ahead PT. I have no doubt you will move on to bigger and better things.
Yahoo is no longer a great company. You’ll land on your feet and hopefully work for a company you can be really proud of. The morale at yahoo is horrible and their long term viability is very much in question.
>>The first thought I had was: When is my contract up?
>> And then I realized: Oh. Now.
You might want to check that. They probably have to pay you a notice period, especially since they are not terminating the contract for non-fulfilment or misconduct.
Congratulations! You made it to the front page of VALLEYWAG!
Here’s your opportunity to start making calls. And you’ve got the perfect opening line, “Hi Senior Editor Person. You may have seen the article about me on the front page of Valleywag this week. I’d like to talk to you about working for your fine company.”
I enjoyed reading the column on Yahoo!Finance despite its partial irrelevance – I thought it helped stretch the personal finance sphere.
Thanks for being so honest about this. I recently got fired and wanted to talk about it on my blog, but didn’t because I didn’t want potential employers to see it. And I’m not even leaving my blog address because I don’t want anyone linking back to it and finding me out. I’m such a chicken! I read a book called “Fired” by Annabelle Gurwitch that is a compilation of stories from people who got fired that made me feel a lot better.
Penelope,
This is a very humble and sobering post. Wishing you nothing but the best in 2008.
– Laurie
Penelope,
I have never been a fond admirer of your writings – and rarely did we agree on anything.. but that being said, I had the opportunity to interview you and on a Personal Level, I will say that you are good people, and I have No Doubt that you will bounce back from this.
You and Yahoo were not a good mix, undoubtedly. They are more conservative, and you are, hmm, maybe we should say flambouant. You have an interesting writing style at best, and it is indeed very entertaining, as long as it is understood that your “advice” should be taken with a grain of salt, and really doesn’t actually work in the employment workplace. No matter what Generation you are.
Okay, this isn’t about slam Penelope, especially on your blog, but actually the opposite. You do have a strong, contrarian writing style, that is opposed by many, yes even including myself; yet, inspite of all that, you maintained your beliefs, and continued to stand your ground, being consistent and true to yourself. I DO Admire that and I Do believe that you Will attempt to be consistent through all this. To Which I say, even as one of your Greatest Naysayers – GOOD FOR YOU!!!
As John Wooden Best said with his definition of success -“I choose to define it as, peace of mind attained only through self-satisfaction in knowing you made the effort to do the best of which you are capable. And you’re the only one that knows that, you know. Nobody else knows. You can fool others, but you can’t fool yourself”
He goes on to mention Character and reputation “Your character is what you are, and you’re the only one that truly knows that. Your reputation is what others perceive it to be, and they can be wrong. So which is the most important? What you really are. It doesn’t make any difference what others might think. You’d like for them to think well of you, but it really doesn’t make any difference. You’d just like for them to. But boy, it’s very important what you think about yourself. That’s probably the most important thing there is.”
Penelope, I truly believe think you will come out of this smelling like a rose, landing Feet First.
So, continue to Stay true to yourself and stay constant in what you believe in, no matter what others like myself may think! and above all, thank goodness for Freedom of Expression, speech and ideas, and especially continue to give thanks not only to those who agree with You, but especially to those who didn’t – they sure helped with your ratings! Smile
Best of Luck
Karen Mattonen
PT –
It’s not how we handle the successes in life but what we learn and how we adjust to the unfortunate things in life. So Yahoo!Finance doesn’t want you any more – BIG DEAL! There’s enough other people that do.
Just keep being you – that’s all that matters!
I think you’ll look back on your time at Yahoo and see that it served its purpose. I found your blog because your Yahoo column was linked on the Yahoo homepage one day. Since then, I’ve been a regular visitor to your blog. Apart from your postings on Yahoo, I never go to Yahoo Finance. I imagine I’m not alone in this.
Even if I don’t always agree with you, I like your viewpoint and voice – thought-provoking and entertaining. I think that some people don’t like what you say because they want career advice to confirm what they already know. (Maybe to let themselves believe they’ve done all they can, all they’re “supposed to do.”) But let’s face it – there can only be so many career books that say almost exactly the same things.
Best of luck in ’08.
I’m sorry Yahoo! terminated your contract. I enjoyed your columns.
What I couldn’t stand was the outright misogyny of many of the commenters. I’m glad you’ll be leaving them behind–hopefully they won’t follow you to wherever you land next.
Sorry to hear about this – I really feel your writing brings a fresh and necessary voice and I think Yahoo is going to be missing out. When I hit tough times I just keep saying to myself ‘you are what you give’ – keep writing, keep generating content and your value stays high.
Maybe this is a good opportunity to examine how much this site is worth to all of us – I for one read it all the time and wouldn’t blink at the chance to throw in a couple bucks now and again.
Penelope, I’d invite you to set up a tip jar on this page for us to use on a voluntary basis. By no means a charity thing or a big money-maker, just a way for some of us to show our appreciation for the work you do, acknowledge the value we are getting, and help you defray some of your costs. Paypal’s got a solution called ‘donation buttons’. I’d love to be the first to kick in.
Tertius, For what it’s worth, I missed Penelope’s column that mentioned downward dog – or skimmed that part because it just made sense to me – but I have done the following in my work bathroom:
Full sun salutations, including downward dog
Partial pushups against the sink
Sat on the floor with my back against the wall
Laid on the floor with my legs up the wall
Jumped up and down to get the blood flowing
I worked in a tall building, so I couldn’t, in five minutes, like walk around the building to refresh, so I used the bathroom. I wasn’t particularly concerned about the cleanliness of the floor. The cleaning people mop it every night, and I’m of pretty sturdy stock when it comes to germs.
As for H/R, I’ve learned the hard way that H/R is there for the company first. If you have a problem, they will be sympathetic, and the next thing you know you’re getting write-ups based on lies and laid off. Sure, you’re “right”, but I personally can’t afford to take a company to court and I’ve got better things to do with my time. Plus, to get severance you have to sign a form that releases the company from all liability, and who can do without the severance? If I was sexually harassed, I would try to resolve with the harasser directly, and maybe I would ultimately go to H/R if I had to, but what I’d absolutely do is just find a new job as soon as possible and simply remove myself from the situation.
Women often find themselves in damned if you do / Damned if you don’t situations, and the best solution is to go somewhere that’s simply less damning.
Hi Penelope – I must say that I find this post tremendously inspirational. Your attitude is GREAT and I wish you the best of luck in 2008. It is quite obvious that you will be successful in whatever you choose.
Kind regards,
Mark
I think you were just fine over at Yahoo. I cannot figure out why they were so mean to you! I’m the guy who called himself “lookatdatfineass.” :)
Anyway, I think you did an excellent job at providing alternatives and possible choices in career decisions.
“Outside of the box” thinking is what you’re great at. Too many times we get tunnel vision and don’t consider other possibilities because “that’s just the way you do things in the real world,” and like you, I simply don’t accept that to be the truth.
Keep up the good work and I’ll be reading your articles as they keep coming to me.
Penelope,
I’m truly sorry that you were fired, if you are feeling badly about it. Which is likely inevitable given the way it happened, which is pretty low of them, to make you think it was a social meeting! Cowards.
But, I have to agree with a few others who said that ‘things happen for a reason’. I really believe that is true…or you can at least make it true by staying positive and taking advantage of opportunities that will come your way.
The most obvious one to me, and one I’m surprised no one has mentioned, is for you to capitalize on this huge audience you’ve built, who will surely all come to your blog here if you continue.
Why don’t you maximize your blog with ads? That’s where the real money in blogging is, and as long as your content stays true, your audience won’t mind.
Yahoo has been profiting off of your blog, now it’s your turn. Here’s a link to a blog on this topic that has great info to think about.
http://www.problogger.net/
I wish you all the best.
Pam
Penelope –
Was it the Byrds, no it was Solomon writing in Ecclesiastes that there are seasons in life. You have entered a new season, just like a new year, it has potential for great success or dismal failure; and it will be your attitude, your mindset, your heart which will lead you to incredible heights.
The one thing about change is we feel like we lose control over what we previously ‘thought’ or assumed we had control over.
I appreciate your style and have confidence that you will land well. Even though the money is important, the ball is in your court and you will control it well.
Blessings to you and your family.
Michael
one more thing –
You have had success, and you know why success is so dangerous? You never know which factors actually contributed to the success, so everything becomes a sacred cow. Over time, you refuse (subconsciously to not take away what has led to your success, for all you know, they’re part of the reason you made it.
So, what is my point? The best time for innovation is when you’re struggling… when you’re down for the count. You’ve got nothing to lose. You can start throwing off the old and start with the new; and see which factors actually make a difference.
Is it 2007? Almost 2008? Did that conversation really happen? Maybe you should write about sewing and cooking? Topics that are geared towards female readers? Amazing.
I know nothing can take away the shock and disappointment, but if anyone can land on his or her feet, it’s you.
You deserve to work for a boss and a boss’s boss who don’t think it’s 1950.
Your boss’s boss’s boss must have thought your really sucked.
Penelope, I’m sorry to hear about this. I understand CPM, but you are a pleasure to read. On the other hand, it can’t be nice reading all of those idiotic comments over at Yahoo–I’m sure you won’t miss that sort of negativity in your life! I’m glad that I found you over here and that you have this blog. You are a fearless writer, and I will continue to read what you have to say. Best of luck–not that you need something as mundane as luck. ;-)
Have you considered setting up a donation button on your blog? Or monetizing your blog in some other form? Lots of people make money off of their blogs, and it’s not a bad thing. With the traffic you get on this blog you could probably have a steady income. Good luck either way, I am very sorry to hear you lost your column.
One thing – you should really doing some comment moderation. Criticism is fine, but it appears as though the trolls are coming out of the woodwork here.
Reading through comments like Johnny really demonstrate why no blog should allow unmoderated comments. Just straight up mean, bullying behavior, that should not be tolerated by civilized people.
* * * * * *
Thanks. I deleted it. Believe me, the comments are very moderated. I get TONS of ridiculous comments that usually have some pornographic or mysongenist reference. I miss a lot of them, though. So thanks for pointing out Johnny. Both of them.
Penelope
Aaron,
Just my personal thought, and this is just me, but I don’t believe in comment moderation for anything other than spam. The second you moderate trolls you are the one bullying. If my viewpoint can’t stand against the viewpoints and criticism of others then it’s I should change my viewpoint.
You talk about tolerance, and civilized people. Perhaps I am too much the philosopher, but what precisely does that mean? “mean, bullying behavior, that should not be tolerated by civilized people.” Are you saying people should only be allowed to speak their mind if it’s contributory? Who determines if it’s contributory? The problem with free speech is that it actually has to be free or it becomes meaningless.
In perfect honesty, your comment is far more offensive to me than any comment on this post so far, and many of them actively attack people of generation who refuse to obey traditional corporate dogma. Your suggestion to moderate in the name of ‘civilization’ is backwards, authoritarian, and yet another example of the way our culture is so easily subverted, and free-thinking so easily squashed.
Penelope, you’re on the right tack, better to have trolls than moderation (not to mention the amount of work it takes to moderate a comment thread.) Kudos!
This isn’t a forum for free speech. It is PT’s blog. If you come to my house and start making defamatory insults, I would summarily remove you.
Free speech means that if you want to make defamatory comments towards me, you get to do so on your own dime – that is, your own blog, using your own resources.
I was always a bit amazed at the harshness of the comments at Yahoo Finance. It honestly made the site’s readers look downright silly. The second to last post is a classic example, where people are criticizing you for advice such as “Be Nice” and “Get on a Team,” which is about as tame, sound, and uncontroversial as advice gets.
You’ve got a unique perspective and, more importantly, an engaging written persona which is extremely valuable. I’m sure you’ll do quite well at your next job. Best of luck!
My wife and I have been reading your stuff for years. Yahoo? That sounds like a pretty boring place to work these days. You should work with my company and do a live video blog and accept questions from the viewers. That would be fun.
Penelope,
I am a fan, I bought your book, and it seems like the world is your oyster regardless of Yahoo. Find a good public relations person. We need to hear, see, and listen to more of what you have to say.
Being self-employed is difficult and unstable at times, but it beats misogynistic supervisors hands down. “More Women Oriented”? That’s just code word for “We’re firing you because you have a vagina.”
Suing them isn’t worth it. Just move on and never trust them again.
Penelope-
sorry about the Yahoo gig. Bummer. But you have passion, and people with passion always rise to the top. Like other things in your past, you will look back at this and see it as a good thing once you get past it.
I have spent December looking for “passion” in people I encounter. I dedicated all my blog posts in December to “The Celebrate Passion Project”…and you know what I learned. People with a real spark inside them to do great things are RARE…..
That is why I know you will do just fine. You are spunky.
thom
“Here's what my boss's boss's boss said: ‘You should write for Lifestyles. That is more women oriented.'”
It’s no wonder they’re on their way out –
Yahoo WHO? That’s what I say, LOL!! Thanks for the honesty of your post, Penelope.
Congrats on a chance at another new beginning. I’ll be watching to see what is next.
I never wish ill will on anyone so I won’t make comments stating, “yippee, you deserved it.” I do think the decision to end the column’s run was a wise one. The advice given was not practical career advice. It was more theoretical advice for Gen Y’ers if we lived in a perfect world where the “me, me, me” attitude ruled the workplace. People go to columns in Yahoo Finance for professional advice and this column never was. It really read more like a recent college grad’s idea of what the professional world should be like.
While I don’t agree with name calling, the rest of the negative comments on Yahoo did have very good points on why the various column entries were not up to snuff. Your regular bloggers do not seem to have a real sense of reality as they praise each and every blog entry as being poetic or close to Shakespeare. It is almost like a cult following. You could repeat the same line over and over and it would still be reviewed positively by them. One comment from a reader on this article said they couldn’t believe someone would come to your personal blog and attack you. I don’t think they realize that you boastfully advertise your blog with your “professional” columns. That in itself is a very bad mistake. Why would your try to represent yourself as a profesional guru and then link to your personal website where you badmouth your husband, talk about guys flirting with you at the airport, discuss extramarital affairs, etc. That is about as unprofessional as it gets and why any business would want that from their columnist is beyond me.
I dislike work as much as any other person, but I do know what you can and cannot do if you want to succeed. I really think you should reorganize your writings and put a disclaimer out there to reflect them as non-professional advice. I have not read one column/article that sounded like it came from a business person. They really do read like someone who is writing what the business world should be like instead of what it really is like. People seeking career advice want to know in detail about how to write a resume, how to prepare for interviews, etc. None of the columns have given real advice like that.
I wish you the best by all means, but I do hope you take this as a learning experience and focus on something other than trying to give professional advice for the business world. Just because I watch sports on television doesn’t make me an expert enough to give advice to rising sports stars on how to better than professional career.
I have never been interested in Yahoo! I am not an active careerist but read your blog because it gives me something to think about along with the comments. You write well and I appreciate the opportunity to know more about you. Good luck on everything.
Even though I don’t agree with all your advice, I’ve been a regular reader of your blog. I had always felt that your column wasn’t the best fit for Yahoo “finance”, so this is probably for the good. All the best for 2008!
Hi, Penelope — sorry to hear it — but you’ll land on your feet — probably wearing golden slippers! I’m looking forward to having the opportunity to create great things for both of us in 2008 – you are the best — and Yahoo readers will MISS you! Cheers!
This may seem a small consolation, but you’ve won a Rockin Girl Blogger award, curtesy of moi. I’ve just discovered your writing, your blog, and love everything I’ve read so far. Looking forward to reading more.
ps (I meant to say, follow the link from my name for details)
Penelope –
I’m sorry this happened to you, but am sure you’ll land on your feet. Contrary to your self assessment, you’ve clearly been willing to take risks in your work life in order to have the family life you want. Although I don’t always agree with your advice, you always make me think. Coincidentally, I blogged today about career management lessons learned during my 30 years in the workplace – http://www.workforceinstitute.org/2008-career-advice-my-top-ten.htm. Maybe there’s something in here that will ring true for you.
Congratulations!
May your next career be even more brazen. :)
You’ve probably thought of this already, but what about putting ads on your personal blog? Steve Pavlina made a nice profit for himself from this, and you’re a much better writer!
Very sorry to hear about your departure from Yahoo! Let us know if you’d like us to pass the basket around here for support a la “It’s a Wonderful Life”. Because I know you’ve helped me, and many others, through your work, and I’d contribute. :)
I am sorry to hear of the economic impact of Yahoo’s decision. However, there is an aspect of your post that I find troubling.
First, you chose to share your side of the termination meeting in a way that I found unflattering for the Yahoo executives. Was this strategy a good one or simply a reactive and shortsighted way of venting to some degree? After all, Yahoo did provide you with an incredible opportunity and by all appearances seemed open to perhaps continuing to do so in the future.
Second, your post (and a huge number of comments) suggest that the reference to Lifestyles was or should be viewed as sexist or degrading. Did you view it as sexist or degrading? If so, could you be mistaken? It seems to me that you asked and perhaps may have been given a candid/accurate and well intentioned response. Having read many of your articles, I don’t find the observation that your subject matter and manner of presentation speaks to women more than men completely unfair.
PT — Thanks for being brave enough to be transparent. That’s what the Internet is all about. That takes real courage.
I read your article on “Four Ways to Sidestep Corporate Hierarchy.” and you had me hooked.
Don’t be bothered by all those comments who have nothing but negativity and offer no alternatives or real advice.
My first real job out of college, my Boss told me that I need to be promoted every 2 years because once you hit a certain age, you hit a plateau. He told me to either move up, or move out. He was right. I was in a job with no career path. I left there after 3 years. When I told him I was leaving, he was proud. he told me there was no where for me to go there. I was the only person in that position.
In June of 9-11, I was caught up in the IT recession and got let go. I was already out of work before 9-11 happened causing 1 million more people to be on the job hunt. I learned to never ever stop networking, and to always have a plan-b. I am also working on a side business to have some residual income coming in.
You have a plan-b with this blog and your book. This blog also helps with your networking.
You are number one, and it is up to you to drive your career. Never rely on anyone else. Those who criticize you for that article will be the job seekers going to networking events only when they are out of work.
If you want to succeed, you have to “Connect-the-dots” Those who can’t will languish in corporate purgatory forever.
I have now bookmarked this site.
PT,
Sorry to hear about the Yahoo thing. Even though your bias against Baby Boomers flawed your advice, I enjoyed reading your suggestions. I believe you are right on about networking and technology and somewhat tilted about the value of hard work. Why do you call entry level work, “bullshit”? It seems you are pandering to those upstarts (Millenials). Remember Smith-Barney, “make ’em earn it”. Graduation from college is a new beginning (begining = entry level). As most Millenials will tell you, the subjects in college don’t apply to real life anyway or “when am I ever going to use this stuff”? I truly believe that they (Millenails) will end up a lot like the Boomers, that is, forced to settle into corporate America due to marriage, children, mortgages, expenses. etc. Kinda like giving up pot. Only for them, they won’t have time to reach for personal technology toys because they will be too busy paying bills. I’ll keep an eye out for you on the Information Highway (oops-that sounds too Gen X) :-)
Oh PT,
I almost forgot (please respond). Who is this Adriene _________? Is it true she is you. If so, I’d really like to meet you.