Comments on: How to manage a college education http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2010/01/21/how-to-manage-a-college-education/ Advice at the intersection of work and life Fri, 30 Jul 2010 13:33:46 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=abc By: Kimmy B. http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2010/01/21/how-to-manage-a-college-education/comment-page-3/#comment-227128 Kimmy B. Tue, 27 Apr 2010 21:38:50 +0000 http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/?p=4678#comment-227128 I wish someone would have told me this before I wasted four years and a whole bunch of money in college myself. I'm not saying it was a complete and total waste (hat would be inaccurate). What I am saying is that the return on investment has been absolutely horrid. The only thing that makes sense right now is launching my own business. I'm reading the 4-Hour Workweek. I'm going through the steps. I can't believe the lies we are told. It's sad. I've decided to become a career coach to help bring a bit of reality back to what it means to select a career and plan for your future. This type of nonsense has got to stop. I'll read the other blog posts in this category and most likely write a blog post or two inspired by what I read. Thanks for Keeping It Real. Kimmy B. I wish someone would have told me this before I wasted four years and a whole bunch of money in college myself. I'm not saying it was a complete and total waste (hat would be inaccurate). What I am saying is that the return on investment has been absolutely horrid. The only thing that makes sense right now is launching my own business. I'm reading the 4-Hour Workweek. I'm going through the steps. I can't believe the lies we are told. It's sad. I've decided to become a career coach to help bring a bit of reality back to what it means to select a career and plan for your future. This type of nonsense has got to stop. I'll read the other blog posts in this category and most likely write a blog post or two inspired by what I read. Thanks for Keeping It Real.

Kimmy B.

]]> By: CJ http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2010/01/21/how-to-manage-a-college-education/comment-page-3/#comment-225961 CJ Tue, 13 Apr 2010 02:34:14 +0000 http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/?p=4678#comment-225961 Liberal Arts degrees are great if you plan to go onto graduate school. However, their value is depends on the fluctuation of the economy. In good economic times, a liberal arts degree can be a stepping stone to a good job in any company that values a well rounded individual. In a bad economy, the liberal arts majors will be bagging groceries for the Informatics graduates and be saddled with a boatload of debt. Liberal Arts degrees are great if you plan to go onto graduate school. However, their value is depends on the fluctuation of the economy. In good economic times, a liberal arts degree can be a stepping stone to a good job in any company that values a well rounded individual. In a bad economy, the liberal arts majors will be bagging groceries for the Informatics graduates and be saddled with a boatload of debt.

]]> By: Dustin C. Knauss http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2010/01/21/how-to-manage-a-college-education/comment-page-3/#comment-222718 Dustin C. Knauss Sat, 06 Mar 2010 01:59:42 +0000 http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/?p=4678#comment-222718 First, I agree with the career center comments. I am interested in what you have to say in light of this quote from your archives. First, I agree with the career center comments. I am interested in what you have to say in light of this quote from your archives.

]]> By: Website Design http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2010/01/21/how-to-manage-a-college-education/comment-page-3/#comment-221946 Website Design Tue, 02 Mar 2010 12:31:29 +0000 http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/?p=4678#comment-221946 I agree that education is very expensive. I never regret the years of university but sometimes I regret the student loan payments that I have to make. Somehow during those impressionable years I never once thought about the ramifications of paying back $75k. Yes, the first round of university was spent wondering what I wanted to do with my life, and the second was a focused necessity to become what I dreamed of. I agree that education is very expensive. I never regret the years of university but sometimes I regret the student loan payments that I have to make. Somehow during those impressionable years I never once thought about the ramifications of paying back $75k. Yes, the first round of university was spent wondering what I wanted to do with my life, and the second was a focused necessity to become what I dreamed of.

]]> By: Raffles http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2010/01/21/how-to-manage-a-college-education/comment-page-3/#comment-221912 Raffles Tue, 02 Mar 2010 09:43:30 +0000 http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/?p=4678#comment-221912 Is liberal arts just a luxury for the well-heeled? My personal advice is to focus on acquiring a skill, and working hard at it. There is after all no short-cut to greatness and success. Is liberal arts just a luxury for the well-heeled? My personal advice is to focus on acquiring a skill, and working hard at it. There is after all no short-cut to greatness and success.

]]> By: Kateri http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2010/01/21/how-to-manage-a-college-education/comment-page-3/#comment-221659 Kateri Fri, 26 Feb 2010 15:35:06 +0000 http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/?p=4678#comment-221659 Remember the blog you wrote about creating your own resume--a line that you wrote stuck with me that I think applies to what you are basically saying here about the "lack" of education in your education or institution; it went something like this: If the life experiences that you need and want on your resume don't exist yet, create them: donate your time; write a journal; start a local coalition; work at an educational center or a nursing home; job shadow someone you know whose career interests you. Just because you have not been hired and/or paid for the job, does not mean you can't go "out" and get it. I found this to be extremely enlightening and radical--it changed my thinking about the life experiences you can create on your own. I must also say that my school and education fundamentally changed how i view and interact with the world. Because of Alverno (milwaukee, wi) College's approach to learning and real life experience as the basis for their ability based education, before I ever walked across the stage, I was able to publicly speak, successfully manage a classroom, teach, adapt myself to any situation or conversation and "speak on my feet"--School helped me to become a proactive communicator; to go out there and "take" the experiences that I need and want so that I am not just another person with a useless degree. Remember the blog you wrote about creating your own resume–a line that you wrote stuck with me that I think applies to what you are basically saying here about the "lack" of education in your education or institution; it went something like this:

If the life experiences that you need and want on your resume don't exist yet, create them: donate your time; write a journal; start a local coalition; work at an educational center or a nursing home; job shadow someone you know whose career interests you. Just because you have not been hired and/or paid for the job, does not mean you can't go "out" and get it.

I found this to be extremely enlightening and radical–it changed my thinking about the life experiences you can create on your own.

I must also say that my school and education fundamentally changed how i view and interact with the world. Because of Alverno (milwaukee, wi) College's approach to learning and real life experience as the basis for their ability based education, before I ever walked across the stage, I was able to publicly speak, successfully manage a classroom, teach, adapt myself to any situation or conversation and "speak on my feet"–School helped me to become a proactive communicator; to go out there and "take" the experiences that I need and want so that I am not just another person with a useless degree.

]]> By: Chandlee Bryan http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2010/01/21/how-to-manage-a-college-education/comment-page-3/#comment-221286 Chandlee Bryan Sun, 21 Feb 2010 08:51:30 +0000 http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/?p=4678#comment-221286 Penelope, as I've mentioned before--this post was very thought-provoking. As I spent the better part of ten years working inside campus career services offices, I wanted to provide more information on why most colleges use a standard format--and why students and alums should deviate from this format when not applying for jobs posted through on-campus recruiting. http://tinyurl.com/standard-resume-dilemma Look forward to continuing the conversation! Chandlee Penelope, as I've mentioned before–this post was very thought-provoking. As I spent the better part of ten years working inside campus career services offices, I wanted to provide more information on why most colleges use a standard format–and why students and alums should deviate from this format when not applying for jobs posted through on-campus recruiting.

http://tinyurl.com/standard-resume-dilemma

Look forward to continuing the conversation!
Chandlee

]]> By: Darren http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2010/01/21/how-to-manage-a-college-education/comment-page-3/#comment-221146 Darren Thu, 18 Feb 2010 15:34:57 +0000 http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/?p=4678#comment-221146 I was pointed to this blog by an agitated fellow alum of an elite liberal-arts college, and having attended the elite LA college and taught at a lower LA college and a middling LA college, as well as attending a large university, I have thought a lot about this subject. That I have kids entering high school makes the subject more pressing to me. First, I agree with the career center comments. The OCC is, was, and will be looked down upon by the campus community because anyone who gets a non-academic job is seen as a sellout or failure. Naturally there is a selection process that does not draw the best minds to career counseling. The best schools judge success as students moving to the next school---med, law, grad, etc. Second, I disagree with the assessment of the primary mission of the college as transfer of Knowledge or communication skills. The mission should be (and is at the truely elite schools) honing critical thinking and analysis skills. Surfing the web for information is the antithesis of this, as all information is seen as equally valuable and "true". It is not. The absence of critical thinking (often derided as "elitist") is crippling political discourse and technological and economic development. HOWEVER, there are very few schools that offer a real education. My experience teaching at both middling and lower tier schools is one of that says education of any kind is a distant second to making happy students. Can't converse in your discipline? No problem! Just make sure your frat brother's Dad has a spot for you. Last, texting is not the same as professional business communication. Stating that this generation communicates well is to have never read the meaningless drivel chatter on Facebook. I was pointed to this blog by an agitated fellow alum of an elite liberal-arts college, and having attended the elite LA college and taught at a lower LA college and a middling LA college, as well as attending a large university, I have thought a lot about this subject. That I have kids entering high school makes the subject more pressing to me.

First, I agree with the career center comments. The OCC is, was, and will be looked down upon by the campus community because anyone who gets a non-academic job is seen as a sellout or failure. Naturally there is a selection process that does not draw the best minds to career counseling. The best schools judge success as students moving to the next school—med, law, grad, etc.

Second, I disagree with the assessment of the primary mission of the college as transfer of Knowledge or communication skills. The mission should be (and is at the truely elite schools) honing critical thinking and analysis skills. Surfing the web for information is the antithesis of this, as all information is seen as equally valuable and "true". It is not. The absence of critical thinking (often derided as "elitist") is crippling political discourse and technological and economic development.

HOWEVER, there are very few schools that offer a real education. My experience teaching at both middling and lower tier schools is one of that says education of any kind is a distant second to making happy students. Can't converse in your discipline? No problem! Just make sure your frat brother's Dad has a spot for you.

Last, texting is not the same as professional business communication. Stating that this generation communicates well is to have never read the meaningless drivel chatter on Facebook.

]]> By: Stias http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2010/01/21/how-to-manage-a-college-education/comment-page-3/#comment-221024 Stias Wed, 17 Feb 2010 09:04:09 +0000 http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/?p=4678#comment-221024 Penelope, I am interested in what you have to say in light of this quote from your archives "In college you need to learn how to think broadly and critically. How you think is much more important than if you know how to map a brand strategy. You have your whole life to study business; college is your time for Shakespeare, Schopenhauer, and science experiments. In this new era of downtrodden, low-key CEOs, one CEO stands out for her star power: Carly Fiorina. And guess what her major was? English." http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2003/02/24/no-more-triple-majors-please-college-kids-should-cut-course-loads/ How, or better yet, why have your opinions changed so drastically? Thank you for your time. Penelope,

I am interested in what you have to say in light of this quote from your archives

"In college you need to learn how to think broadly and critically. How you think is much more important than if you know how to map a brand strategy. You have your whole life to study business; college is your time for Shakespeare, Schopenhauer, and science experiments. In this new era of downtrodden, low-key CEOs, one CEO stands out for her star power: Carly Fiorina. And guess what her major was? English."

http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2003/02/24/no-more-triple-majors-please-college-kids-should-cut-course-loads/

How, or better yet, why have your opinions changed so drastically? Thank you for your time.

]]> By: Laura http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2010/01/21/how-to-manage-a-college-education/comment-page-3/#comment-220304 Laura Mon, 08 Feb 2010 16:36:02 +0000 http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/?p=4678#comment-220304 This posting is all over the place, and while it addresses some salient issues, it gets other things flat out wrong. The value of a liberal arts education is an endlessly debatable subject, and it's near impossible to get a straight answer. I believe that liberal arts does have value, but students have to work far above and beyond anything they've done before to uncover it. As a career advisor at Hampden-Sydney College, I vehemently disagree with 3 out of your 4 points on why college career centers are so terrible. 1. If you had taken the time to understand the differences between large schools and small schools, you would see that many small schools attract few, if any companies to recruit on campus at all. So therefore, they can't build their organization around catering to companies. Instead, offices like mine build our organization around helping students explore any and all career possibilities. A good career counselor doesn't dictate options, they work with a student to discover the students' hopes, dreams and goals. 2. Social media. So you say that career centers only want to ride along on the social media creativity of others, therefore, we don't understand it. I am really confused by your point. How about examining the many, many, many career centers out there that are using social media to build relationships, connect students with alumni, and share advice? 3. I don't know a single career center that doesn't track the job outcomes of its students. That is our bread and butter of accountability to offices around campus. The idea that we would only track graduate school acceptances but not jobs is simply absurd. You can get great numbers on this from NACE, the National Association of Colleges and Employers. I do agree with your point of looking for schools that have strong track records of getting students jobs. I'd like to see a little less name lust in the college market and people thinking about "where can I maximize my experience the most?" This posting is all over the place, and while it addresses some salient issues, it gets other things flat out wrong. The value of a liberal arts education is an endlessly debatable subject, and it's near impossible to get a straight answer. I believe that liberal arts does have value, but students have to work far above and beyond anything they've done before to uncover it. As a career advisor at Hampden-Sydney College, I vehemently disagree with 3 out of your 4 points on why college career centers are so terrible.
1. If you had taken the time to understand the differences between large schools and small schools, you would see that many small schools attract few, if any companies to recruit on campus at all. So therefore, they can't build their organization around catering to companies. Instead, offices like mine build our organization around helping students explore any and all career possibilities. A good career counselor doesn't dictate options, they work with a student to discover the students' hopes, dreams and goals.
2. Social media. So you say that career centers only want to ride along on the social media creativity of others, therefore, we don't understand it. I am really confused by your point. How about examining the many, many, many career centers out there that are using social media to build relationships, connect students with alumni, and share advice?
3. I don't know a single career center that doesn't track the job outcomes of its students. That is our bread and butter of accountability to offices around campus. The idea that we would only track graduate school acceptances but not jobs is simply absurd. You can get great numbers on this from NACE, the National Association of Colleges and Employers.

I do agree with your point of looking for schools that have strong track records of getting students jobs. I'd like to see a little less name lust in the college market and people thinking about "where can I maximize my experience the most?"

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