I have never let anyone guest post anonymously on this blog before, but today is an exception, and you'll see why if you keep reading.
Every time I write about stay-at-home dads, tons of them write to me. They always want me to tell their story. The only emails I get that say "contact me if you want to interview me about my life" are from stay-at-home dads.
Not much ever comes of this, but there's one exception: a guy I've been corresponding with for the last year about what life's like as a stay-at-home dad. Today's guest post is actually a bunch of his emails that I've edited, with his permission. I like this guy because he is more honest with me about his life than any other stay-at-home dad I know.
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When a person asks "What kind of marriage works today?" they learn that there are so many more options available than there were even 25 years ago. My mother and grandmother never would have been able to ask that question because there was only one type of marriage in the past. My wife and I have pretty much taken the old template and switched genders.
But it's hard on me having a similar education and background to my wife and yet having her be the big success in her field while I'm not in it at all. There are many times when my wife accomplishes something and I say to myself that I never could have done that. And as my wife spends less time with our family and more time with work people, my focus and my social circle is different from hers.
So let me give you two of the positives about being in my position as a stay-at-home husband.
First, it is so great that my wife has a kick-ass job, makes good money, and provides so well for our family. She rocks. And it's great for the kids.
Second, she's really good at letting me do what I do. Not a lot of second guessing or interference. She's never ever complained about anything I've spent or what I do. Not that I'm irresponsible or frivolous, but it's just nice knowing that I can pretty much do what I want to do. I wouldn't be staying home at all if not for her income.
Yes, there is a power imbalance, but I've gotten used to it. If I thought about it a lot, it would probably drive me crazy. But that imbalance comes with some of the perks that I embrace. Being able to commit and make this huge leap of faith is something that I'm very proud of myself for doing. And I know that my wife very much appreciates it. It's certainly made me more vulnerable, but it's added strength to our relationship.
But I've also been amazed as to how many propositions I've received since becoming a househusband. I have a pretty good sense of myself, so take my word that I'm not Brad Pitt but I'm not The Elephant Man either. But until I started staying home, I was never the object of this kind of attention.
Especially one winter, tagging along with her at a business conference.
On the first day I met a woman who really had her act together, single, about 50, and from Boston. A real flirt too. I flirted back. Same thing the next day. Each time we talked, she would talk about the seminars and other BS she'd attended (which my wife never does), and basically roll her eyes while giving the company-line on all the "interesting" things that she had learned. It was pretty funny.
On the second to last night, she said that, finally, tomorrow afternoon, she was actually looking forward to a meeting. I asked her what it was about. I'll never forget what she said: "The two of us. I'm leaving the morning meeting early. Come to my room and we can have lunch and the afternoon together."
The next morning, slinking around and probably acting like a burglar, I knocked, went in, and we spent three really great hours together. And that was it. At the last cocktail party, we bantered again.We've emailed a few times since them, but never gotten together.
At times I can't believe the course my life has taken and I doubt that my wife has a huge amount of respect for me. Maybe it's because I'm a chauvinist and always had a condescending view of women who stayed home, who live very pampered lives. Well, now I'm one of them. But I have to say that I'm really no different than a lot of women who are married to power husbands and play a supporting role. I just do what they do, with a masculine twist.
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ADDENDUM: YIKES!!! The comments below (there are now about 40) ask the same question over and over again: What is the point of this post? So here are some questions that I think the post brings up:
Is being a stay-at-home dad any different than the life that Betty Friedan and Sylvia Plath worked so hard to get away from?
Is the world really ready for stay-at-home dads? Will the world ever be ready? We have done a more successful job, I think, integrating women into the work world than men into the domestic world. Are women crossing these boundaries more validated than the men who cross the boundaries?
Why is the world not talking about the downside of being a stay-at-home dad? Moms complain about this lifestyle all the time –when they are doing it — but men don't.
Do women respect their stay-at-home husbands? I wonder if women might have to work very very hard to respect their husbands who stay at home. Perhaps gratitude comes easily, but respect takes a huge effort and a lot of mental tricks.
Why do women hit on stay-at-home dads?





The only emails I get that say “contact me if you want to interview me about my life” are from stay-at-home dads.
Bucking the trend: Contact me if you want to interview me about my life :)
Posted by tinyhands on April 30, 2008 at 9:31 am | permalink |
Not where I expected that to go….any thought I had of my husband possibly staying home when we have kids is now thrown out the window. Daycare all the way.
Posted by Carissa on April 30, 2008 at 10:12 am | permalink |
It appears to me this guy is having a difficult time adjusting to his role in the marriage. It also sounds as though the marriage is working on a superficial level with the finances intact, etc. However it was the 'power imbalance, more vulnerable, and strength to our relationship' paragraph that spoke to me that this relationship does not have a solid foundation. He has gotten used to it but hasn't sorted it all out. Also troubling is the mention of respect from his wife. I wonder how his wife views their marriage, their roles in it, and its current condition.
"I just do what they do, with a masculine twist." would not do it for me. Of course there are many details to this story that we are not aware of so this comment is only what I can surmise is happening in this marriage. I wish him and his family the best as his role as a stay at home dad is challenging as demonstrated by this post.
Posted by Mark W. on April 30, 2008 at 10:22 am | permalink |
I read that three times and I am still confused.
Did he just say that he had a "nooner" with the other woman? Or was just a 3 hour "meal".
Is this seriously the best/most interesting example you could find of a stay at home dad?
Posted by david rees on April 30, 2008 at 10:25 am | permalink |
Whoa. Uuuhhhhh, not where I expected that to go at all. Wow. Yeah, clearly there are more issues here than anyone wants to admit.
In a vague way it reminds me a bit of the book Little Children by Tom Perrota.
Posted by WhichBox on April 30, 2008 at 10:29 am | permalink |
Umm….where's the "Dad" part? Seems this guy just wanted an excuse to brag about how sexy other women find him. Lame.
Posted by MissPinkKate on April 30, 2008 at 10:29 am | permalink |
"I’m a chauvinist and always had a condescending view of women who stayed home, who live very pampered lives. Well, now I’m one of them…I just do what they do, with a masculine twist."
So, has his opinion changed? Does he respect stay at home parents now? I'd like to know what he sees as his contribution to the family, and whether or not he values it. He says his wife's career is great for the kids, but never addresses how great it is for the kids to have him around.
I realize the affair is what will get talked about the most bring the most traffic, but I feel like a huge chunk of this story is missing.
Posted by Sally J. on April 30, 2008 at 10:33 am | permalink |
"The next morning, slinking around and probably acting like a burglar, I knocked, went in, and we spent three really great hours together. And that was it."
While technically ambiguous, it's pretty clear to me now on the 4th read.
What a bastard.
Does he honestly think he is the only married guy in the world that has been hit on? If I was more cynical, I would think that you actually selected this person as a slam against men or something like that – I don't think that, but it crossed my mind.
It seems to me that he has a lot of resentment at being in the situation he is in and rather than deal with it like a man – he opted for some clandestine "strange" with someone that made him feel good.
Bad husband, bad father, bad human.
The only value in this post is as a warning to others.
Posted by david rees on April 30, 2008 at 10:34 am | permalink |
Um. wtf? This guy sounds like a douchebag. Was the cheating part supposed to impress the readers? I'm confused.
Come on Penelope. I'm sure you can easily find like 20 MUCH more interesting and insightful stay at home dads with a quick blog search…
Posted by b on April 30, 2008 at 10:41 am | permalink |
@whichbox, I thought the same thing. I thought I was reading a Tom Perrotta novel too (which I recommend, by the way).
It is a vague post. Why is he staying at home? Why is he not a success? How many kids? How old are they? Is he going to work again? What does he do with the kids all day (are they babies or in school)? I didn't really get a sense of what this post was supposed to exemplify. He hints at some envy of the wife's career but no further. He hints at banging a conference lady, but no further. And no discussion of what it's like to be with the kids. Is it boring? Mind-numbing? Why exactly are you doing it? Why do you think your wife doesn't respect you?
It said too little about a subject of which I'm sure there is much to say.
Clarissa, my boyfriend says he would stay at home with the kids. This post doesn't change my mind about that being a possibility. I just wonder if I would be ok if my kids loved him more and had more fun with him and I didn't get to see them as much. And yes, feminist that I am, I have these questions, even resentment, about me possibly being the sole breadwinner. It's wrong and sexist and I know it but those thoughts are sometimes there and I have to acknowledge them to deal with them. That's what can be great about the taboo posts on here.
That would be a good post too. How does the working mother feel compared to the SAHD?
Posted by Joselle Palacios on April 30, 2008 at 11:00 am | permalink |
I have to say that this is the first post on this blog that has disappointed. What was the point of that? I am no prude and I wasn't offended by the content at all. It was just…kind of…lame.
Posted by Robert Jones on April 30, 2008 at 11:11 am | permalink |
Yes, he is honest to you, but is he honest enough to turn around and tell his wife/children about the affair he just had?
Does he feel any remorse? Will he do it again, but with someone else who gives him the slightest bit of attention?
If that is how he thinks housewives act, as a whole, I think he is sorely mistaken.
I really wish this had been developed further. All it has left me is a feeling of, "EW."
Posted by Ali on April 30, 2008 at 11:18 am | permalink |
How is this a post about what it's like being a stay-at-home dad?
Perhaps this resonates with Penelope as to what a stay-at-home dad is all about, but I honestly have no idea why this anonymous guest blogger's story would merit "an exception".
Posted by Brownit on April 30, 2008 at 11:21 am | permalink |
I must say the only thing this piece does is reinforce that men generally suck at being SAHD's. Even though you could completely translate this to a woman. The commenter above about this being a reason not to have a SAHD – so you would rather send him off to a work environment where he is in an office interacting with other women for 8 hours a day? Would you rather build a relationship with a man who sees you for more hours a day than any other woman, or would you rather that he sees other women for more hours a day than you? From that perspective, it is safer to keep him at home.
However, to the point. I totally believe that men can be good SAHD's. The point isn't can they do it – kind of like I also believe that women can earn and work just as hard as a man outside the home. With both of these, the point isn't can they, it's SHOULD they? My opinion is they shouldn't. Men and women have been wired by nature, by-and-large, differently. This means that to function and actualize their design (I don't care if you believe in evolution or not – you don't make a clock into a car), they need to accept who and what they are and what they do best.
But it is important to remember that there is a difference between trained behaviour and inherent behaviour. I know women who are driven career-wise, but the better I have come to know her, the more I see that her success is driven by the failure of men in her life and her desire for safety. Men have let her down so she is driven to independence out of fear. This is not healthy behaviour.
At the same time, the guys that I know who fall into the SAHD or close to it, where their wives earn more than them, generally they are abdicating their responsibilities as men and husbands on many levels. They are being lazy, or they have some kind of history that has caused them to lose confidence, and they have slipped into a role that is not what they are made for because of wounds, not because it's a "lifestyle choice".
Posted by Shane on April 30, 2008 at 11:29 am | permalink |
Uh…who was watching the kids while he was sklinking around in that woman's room?
Posted by Greg on April 30, 2008 at 11:35 am | permalink |
Penelope, you should have just left his emails intact because your editing makes him sound shallow and petty. If he's not really like this, the only favor you've done him is keeping him anonymous. If he is really like this, then your choice in guest posters calls into question your credibility as Intelligent Human.
Either way, here's my advice to Anonymous Stay-at-Home Dad: Get yourself a blog and start posting about your life in your own way. As we've seen, using Penelope as your mouthpiece trivializes your experience and is just plain unnecessary in this day and age. Personal stories, like apple cider, are best unfiltered.
Posted by Jenny on April 30, 2008 at 11:38 am | permalink |
What a strange entry. If I didn't know any better, Penelope, I'd swear you wrote the guest post. The SAHD's monologue reads like your prose, right down to the description of the romantic liaison at the end.
"I like this guy because he is more honest with me about his life than any other stay-at-home dad I know."
Really? Other random stay-at-home dads aren't e-mailing you left and right with stories of their infidelities? Shocking!
Posted by Rick Rock on April 30, 2008 at 11:45 am | permalink |
What was it that was so spectacular about the other woman who had it so together that she talked about BS and could flirt/have sex with a married man.
He sounds like a complete idiot who if he really cared about his wife and children would not have done what he did no matter if he was stay at home or not.
This article about his life was a waste of my time reading it.
Posted by SH on April 30, 2008 at 12:02 pm | permalink |
Good point Rick Rock.
This post is really bothering me and I am having trouble figuring out why.
I agree with Brownit – maybe this is similar to your experience with your husband and you are "projecting" or maybe it is something else.
The only think you have documented here is some behavior and mere behavior outside of context or motivation tells us nothing, teaches us nothing and only leaves us scratching our head.
Why does he stay with this kids? Why don't both parents work? In my experience, most families that have a stay at home parent do so out of ideology and strong values – a willingness to sacrifice the material for the mental, psychological and spiritual.
This clown comes off more as a resentful n'er do well that resents his wifes success and not feeling respected or admired, seeks to meet that need by gaining the admiration of an older woman.
I conclude that the reason you left out the why is because it is entirely base and uninteresting. He is a selfish, uncomplicated failure with no pain tolerance, no emotional endurance (my grandparents called it "longsuffering" and put it in their vows).
Please explain what on earth you find interesting or at all valuable in this person because I highly doubt he has much to offer outside of confirming to you that SAHDs are inherently losers and that your recent decisions are justified and that your propensity to share TMI is a virtue and not just a minor character flaw that you have capitalized on.
I could never be a SAHD and I don't know how my wife does it day in day out – If there are guys that want to do it and do it effectively and not just to escape the fact that their career is in melt down (or failure to launch) then great – go for it.
I usually enjoy and support you because even when I don't agree with you, I can at least understand your reasoning and I know that as an ENTJ, you have the capacity to think things through and introspect, but you need to have something checked because you completely and totally missed the boat on this one and I just don't understand how you could let that happen.
Posted by david rees on April 30, 2008 at 12:09 pm | permalink |
Here's what's wrong with this story:
This is not a story about a stay-at-home-dad. It's a story about a stay-at-home-husband. He even says so in the third paragraph. He never refers to himself as a stay-at-home-dad.
A stay-at-home-dad would have included stories about children (he mentioned his kids ONCE, and only in passing) instead of his indiscretions. As it is, he just comes off as a lame trophy husband.
Poor showing, Penelope.
Posted by JSullivan on April 30, 2008 at 12:21 pm | permalink |
Penelope,
How about writing about shared parenting? Rather than just having a SAHParent scenario, there's a third path of having both parents work part-time (my husband and I have done this for three years). It's good to point out there are more than just the two obvious options of one parent staying home or both parents working full time.
J
Posted by Jen on April 30, 2008 at 12:25 pm | permalink |
A stay-at-home-dad post in which he doesn't stay home and isn't a dad. Bizarre. I'm eager to see a follow-up post explaining the point of this one.
Posted by Brian Baute on April 30, 2008 at 12:27 pm | permalink |
Ms. Trunk, will you please explain how you sat in this man's church for 20 years and let these kinds of comments slide? Do you really expect us to believe that you didn't attend on those Sundays when this man was cheating on his wife?
Posted by Paul Rees on April 30, 2008 at 12:28 pm | permalink |
So, I just got done putting down my 1 year old for a nap, and I saw this post.
I'm a stay-at-home Dad, except quite a bit different from this guy. I stay at home because I wanted to be there to raise my son. When I found out my wife was pregnant, I knew that there were things that had to be done to change our lifestyle to something I'd want to raise a kid in. We needed to move, we needed more money, and I needed to be around more. Within a 6 weeks, I had changed jobs, was able to work from home, and was on a much more robust career path. If anything, my son was a kick-start to my career.
My wife took her six weeks off for the delivery and went right back to work. I wouldn't have it any other way. She loves what she does and I want her salary in our bank account. I make quite a bit more than her, but living in Jersey isn't cheap and I wouldn't pass on a cent. In the mean time, I'm able to work from home for a company that's across the country. It carries its own range of challenges, but the schedule is flexible, and I use that to my advantage. So, I'm 25, I work full time as a C-Level exec in the tech industry, I blog, and I'm a full-time stay at home Dad.
Raising the boy is by far the most challenging out of the whole bunch.
Posted by Ed Borden on April 30, 2008 at 12:29 pm | permalink |
Like others here, I completely miss the point on this one. The only value I can draw from it is the rather obvious conclusion that you shouldn't drag your spouse along to a conference where you will be in meetings all day at a hotel where there is nothing to do. Why didn't he stay home with the kids? That doesn't make any sense.
Posted by Dave Atkins on April 30, 2008 at 12:30 pm | permalink |
Stupid post – I really hope you don't believe all the emails people send you. It wouldn't surprise me if this idiot struck up a "conversation" with Penelope under the guise of a SAHD, but is really just trying to hook up with her. Didn't pass my BS meter at all!
Posted by debbie on April 30, 2008 at 12:36 pm | permalink |
Thanks for your great career tip today. I will now consider quitting my job so i can stay home and get more tail.
Come on, i know you have to fill blog space, but give us a break.
Posted by jp on April 30, 2008 at 12:42 pm | permalink |
This is a pointless post that reads like a Letter to Penthouse and doesn't even mention his kids or his role as a father. If Penelope's point is that being a "househusband" makes you a passive-agressive moron with something to prove, then point well taken.
Posted by Lori on April 30, 2008 at 12:48 pm | permalink |
But does he get bored? Does he secretly hate it? Does he feel emasculated at home? Does "doing what I want" really include screwing around, and if not, exactly how much bad behaviour does it include? Does he wife know "what he wants"? Does she care, how much?
We need to know more! Please keep them coming.
Posted by Alice Bachini-Smith on April 30, 2008 at 12:49 pm | permalink |
I've been wavering on whether or not to continue subscribing to your blog, and this helped to tip the balance over to unsubscribing. What was the purpose of this post if not to scare people off from going the stay-at-home-dad route and/or making you feel like there was no way your own stay-at-home-dad family strategy could have worked because the whole institution is fatally flawed? Guess what? Lots of men stay at home and raise children and are happy to do it. I have a friend who stayed home with his children in the late 80s and early 90s when it was REALLY unusual to do that. He's been back in his career for well over a decade now and you know what he talks about? Not what he had to give up career-wise, but what he gained in terms of being a huge part of his children's lives while they were growing up. My office-mate constantly talks about how much he misses during the day while he's away from his 18 month old. Some men actually want to be there for all that and find that more important than their career. Others manage to work from home and raise a family. But of course the happy ones must be lying, right?
Happily unsubscribed.
Posted by meredith on April 30, 2008 at 12:56 pm | permalink |
This was a disappointing and depressing story. This fellow clearly has no ethics, and my heart goes out to his wife and family.
Like Meredith, I've been wavering on whether or not to continue subscribing to your blog. Consider another one of your previous fans unsubscribed.
Posted by B. on April 30, 2008 at 1:20 pm | permalink |
Let's face it, commenters–no one perspective can possibly be representative of all stay-at-home dads. Ms. Trunk promised interesting, at this is at least somewhat interesting. No, there are no big life lessons here, or work advice. And sure, he probably sent it in an attempt to hook up with Penelope somehow–no big surprise there–lots of guys do that surely. But don't act like Penelope's saying this is every dad-at-home, or even some. This is ONE guy, that's all. And he seems pretty lame at that.
Posted by Hagar on April 30, 2008 at 1:21 pm | permalink |
I have to say that I thought this was a really interesting post–much better than the standard SAHD blog about how the guy is just so enthralled by his kids, has no issues about not being a breadwinner, letting the wife wear the pants, etc. I was a SAHM for 8 years and 100% relate to this guy.
In response to Ali's comment above: "If that is how he thinks housewives act, as a whole, I think he is sorely mistaken." Actually, it is Ali who is sorely mistaken; it has been my experience during the 12 years I've been a parent that a great many housewives do act exactly like this and his portrayal is actually really, really accurate. Sorry to burst everyone's bubbles but statistics don't lie–the divorce rate and stats on infidelity aren't what they are because someone makes up the numbers; the reality is that far more people cheat than are faithful. And
People think that just because someone is a stay-home parent it means that they love all kids, love playing with their kids and reading to them every hour of the day, love cooking and cleaning and are just so content and grateful to be able to enjoy the luxury of not having to work and being able to be home with their kids. The reality is that some people feel that if they have kids they're going to raise them and daycare is not an acceptable option–or at least while the kids are young.
But just because you are willing to make the necessary sacrifice to be home full-time so your kids can have the benefit of a stay-home parent doesn't mean that your sole focus in life is your kids. I think the expectation that a full-time parent is supposed to have no life other than taking care of the kid is ridiculous; that's the same as having a full-time worker being expected to work literally 24/7 at the office and remain focused and productive and dedicated solely to his/her job. As for the comments about how this guy is supposed to just wax on about how much he loves his son, loves being home, and is obviously a bad dad because he doesn't even mention his kid here–the reality is that just like you go to work yet still love your kids, this guy can love his kid but not have to mention him in every sentence he writes.
And as for the cheating–if being a stay-home parent with a successful spouse isn't a recipe for making anyone a cheater I don't know what is. Getting attention from someone of the opposite sex is pretty much the ONLY attention/ego stroking available to stay-home parents and plenty of people are lulled into affairs. Think about it–you work, you get praised by your boss, you feel smart and important and interesting and have stuff to talk about and think about. This guy–and other stay-home parents–are home with nobody to talk to, nothing to do but clean and play with kid/s, have mixed feelings about not having a job, worry whether they'll ever be able to get back into the work world and resume a career, etc, etc. Some guy or gal starts paying that person compliments, flirting, etc and an opportunity arises, hell yes in many cases what happened to this guy is exactly what happens to tons of others in his same position. Why do you think there are so many cliches about women sleeping with the tennis pro, the plumber, the gardner, etc? Because it happens all the time!
I never do the "you'll see when you're older" thing but in this case, I have to say that many of you might read this and feel differently in 10 or 20 years. And if not and I'm wrong, just write me off as a jaded 40-yr old ex-SAHM.
Posted by Maggie on April 30, 2008 at 1:31 pm | permalink |
While I mostly agree with Hagar, the post's title and Penelope's introduction (to a lesser degree) seem to invite some amount of projection to the larger population of SAHDs.
Posted by Brownit on April 30, 2008 at 1:33 pm | permalink |
"I just do what they do, with a masculine twist." So, this guy's opinion is that most stay-at-home moms are cheating sluts? He's so disgusting I almost find myself wishing that it is just because Penelope did a bad job of editing his emails.
Posted by Dave on April 30, 2008 at 1:34 pm | permalink |
I liked reading about this. I'm always waiting for guys to prove me wrong, they rarely do (sadly!). This is not too different. However, kudos for his honesty and for his courage to being a dad. My dad was a huge part of my life growing up, and I commend other fathers who are there for their kids.
Posted by Ally on April 30, 2008 at 1:34 pm | permalink |
That was pointless. And weird. Where were the kids? My stay-at-home-dad husband and son go along with me on buisness trips and we have a blast together when the conference day is done. And no, I'm not worried about them at all… my husband is a fabulous parent and spouse, and has really embraced the time he gets to spend raising our son.
What I would like to know more about is how life is for you as a working mom. Sometimes it seems like you are fixated by the failures of SAHDs, but what about your challenges as a working mom? As a parent?
I've enjoyed reading some of your old blogs where you bring up some of the SAHD issues… but this wasn't one of them… this was very bizarre, disjointed, and not about parenting at all!
Posted by Amber on April 30, 2008 at 1:35 pm | permalink |
This is the lamest post ever. And Maggie, you're full of crap.
Posted by Jackie on April 30, 2008 at 1:41 pm | permalink |
Not everyone who says they're a "stay at home dad" is in fact at home. But you have to say SAHD for people to make sense of why you're out during the day taking care of your kids.
For nine of the months I was telling people I was a SAHD, I was actually working a 6-day, 52-hours, second-shift, phone-asnwering job.
This is what "staying at home" looked like:
6:00 Wake up with the kids
8:30 Hop on the train with both kids, drop older kid at preschool, then playground, adventure, and nap with the baby
12:00 Pickup at preschool, lunch with both kids, then train home
1:30 Hand-off kids, shower, bus to work
3:00 Work
11:00 Bus home
12:00 Sleep
Repeat…
Posted by Nino on April 30, 2008 at 1:43 pm | permalink |
Penelope, I think that you have confused honesty with bragging. So…he fessed up to cheating on his wife. How does that make this guys story more honest than anyone elses?
I am so very, very done with this blog….
Posted by Leslie on April 30, 2008 at 1:56 pm | permalink |
I can understand receiving attention and even the flirting. Being able to cheat with someone is just as fulfilling as doing it as far as an ego boost. The minute he knocked on that door, he cheated. Career, Business-person being synonymous with cheater is a destructive theme being visited too often lately.
Temptation usually enters through a door that was deliberately left open.
Posted by Corey on April 30, 2008 at 2:00 pm | permalink |
"I am so very, very done with this blog…."
Seconded. Unsubscribed.
Posted by Corey on April 30, 2008 at 2:01 pm | permalink |
Maggie -
I will respectfully disagree with you.
I will agree that yes, divorce in on the rise, yes, there is infidelity. But as I said, as a whole, I don't think his portrayal is how most housewives are.
I'm not saying I think I (or all other housewives) are perfect, that we don't make mistakes, that we don't struggle.
Perhaps what strikes me the most is the utter lack of consideration of what may result from his actions.
Perhaps I am naive and young, but I haven't been exposed to the level comfort this anonymous dad has when it comes to infidelity.
That all said, I think you gave about 10 times as much thought as what anonymous dad did. Although I don't agree with your viewpoint, I can see where you are coming from.
Thanks for the discussion.
Posted by Ali on April 30, 2008 at 2:15 pm | permalink |
So, it's OK for a stay at home day to cheat (and be coy about it, no less). Sort of a consolation prize for giving up his career? But women are just expected to do it, wihtout that particular "perk". Huh.
One of the previous comments – why is he not a success? Staying home with the kids makes you not a success? Or is that only if you're a man?
He sounds like a perfectly happy house husband. Perhaps he is baking his cakes, and of course, having them, too.
Posted by Jennifer P. on April 30, 2008 at 2:16 pm | permalink |
I think this is a poor piece doing no justice to stay at home dads everywhere. Why highlight a self proclaimed chauvinist? Shock value? I am a stay at home dad, visit my blog anytime you feel like seeing a real dad in action, not some cheating sack of crap. WTF is this anyways? A joke I hope. w/e, I am done with this.
Posted by Joe on April 30, 2008 at 2:48 pm | permalink |
I'm a work-at-home-dad and my wife works outside of the house. I take care of the kids, and work in between naps, late at night and on the weekend. She makes more money than me, although we have traded back and forth throughout our marriage. Up until we had kids, we played the leap frog game, but when the kids came we made a change in my job because it was more restrictive than hers and would probably have caused us to relocate.
I had a real hard time identifying with this post. It is nothing like my experience, or any of the other WAHD/SAHDs I know.
The stereotypes are hard to overcome, but I don't ever feel like my wife doesn't respect me for what I do. On top of making sure the kids are taken care of, I also ensure that she has little to no housework to do. I also take care of all the yardwork and fix things (like replacing the garbage disposal today, since she thought it was OK to empty her purse contents into the sink and grind stuff up…).
Anyway, the difference between me and many of the SAHMs in my immediate area is that I don't just take care of the kids and house – I still work. I publish several websites (including a Dad blog); I'm on the local City Council; I do new construction draw inspections for extra money; and, I volunteer at several community organizations. I know there are some SAHM/WAHMs that do the same as me, but my point is that I don't know why my wife would lose respect for me because I'm sitting slacking off and putting everything on her.
Does that make sense?
Posted by Jeremy (Discovering Dad) on April 30, 2008 at 2:58 pm | permalink |
Jeez, relax people. I, like most of you were surprised by the direction this story took, but it is only a story. I do not understand why this leads to attacks on Penelope. If you do not like her blogs then don't read them but do you have to verbally attack her and comment that you are 'unsubscribing'????? Who cares. Move along.
Posted by Carissa on April 30, 2008 at 2:58 pm | permalink |
I'm surprised no one has figured out what this post is really about. C'mon, people. Does Penelope need to spell it out?
(On another note, though, I hope the post means to suggest stay at home wives are supposedly pampered and not stay at home *parents*.)
Posted by Andrea >> Become a consultant on April 30, 2008 at 3:04 pm | permalink |
I'm sorry, Penelope, but I don't think this post brings up any of the questions you added in the Addendum, mainly because the writer seems to be a thoughtless dolt. This was the best you could do? I'm embarrassed for all stay at home dads, that this is the guy you choose to represent them. Better luck next time on this kind of post, if there is one.
Posted by MissPinkKate on April 30, 2008 at 3:08 pm | permalink |
And I'll be honest- I, too, have been reconsidering my subscription to your blog lately, and this entry definitely pushes me toward unsubscribing.
Posted by MissPinkKate on April 30, 2008 at 3:15 pm | permalink |
It's hard to say for sure since the post is short and anecdotal, but what I gleaned from this story is that it sounds like the guy feels almost… justified (or at least doesn't sound like he feels guilty) in his actions because of the role he's in. If anything, it's convinced me that personality is less affected by one's daily role than I may have thought. I bet if this guy was a CEO and his wife was home with the kids, he'd be banging his secretary and still feel alright about it.
Posted by Sara on April 30, 2008 at 3:19 pm | permalink |
Great comment Sara. :)
Posted by Ali on April 30, 2008 at 3:24 pm | permalink |
@jenniferp: Just to clarify since I asked "Why is he not a success?" I don't think choosing to stay home to raise children is a loser move at all, for mothers or fathers. I was wondering why he was not a success in his profession because that's how HE put it in the emails. Is the reason he's staying at home because he couldn't hack his career? Or because he wanted to do it for his kids? Those questions aren't answered but they're important.
Posted by Joselle Palacios on April 30, 2008 at 3:36 pm | permalink |
Back to see further reaction…
Who are these tools insulting P.Trunk and unsubscribing? Geez! One blog that isn't as well-developed as her usual high standards, and it's hit the road?
Penny, you're better off without those clowns. I hope you haven't taken some of the arsehole traffic that is leaving personally. That's just pathetic. Anyone who has ever blogged knows you can't hit a home run every time.
I expected interesting dialogue in the comments, not derision and stupidity. Not sorry to see them go at all.
Posted by Shane on April 30, 2008 at 3:40 pm | permalink |
In a nutshell, stay-at-home spouses resent that their partner is working outside the home, and to compensate, they find a piece of ass.
When will you post a story about a stay-at-home parent?
I'm hoping the end result isn't the same as this one…a three-hour fling just because the opportunity was there doesn't paint anyone in a good light, much less someone who is home with the kid(s).
Penelope: is this a recap of your marriage? It kind of reads like your writing, so maybe you're spilling the beans about an affair your husband had while he attended a conference with you, thus the real reason for your divorce.
Please advise.
Posted by Ken on April 30, 2008 at 3:43 pm | permalink |
So after his relationship was strengthened, he cheated on his wife while attending her business conference. What was the relationship like before? I was hoping for more insight from this, since generally I get so much out of this blog…
Posted by Jill on April 30, 2008 at 3:50 pm | permalink |
I was wondering that Ken, but I discounted it because:
1. its a bit too obvious
2. the conversations were email – I doubt her husband would reveal that in email
3. he says his wife provides well – I could be wrong, but reading between the lines, they seem to be stretched a bit
4. he said it added strength to their relationship – when PT recounts her life, it seems the SAHD thing did the opposite
Also – why do women hit on SAHDs? Here is my guess:
1. They may *seem* easier to control
2. Marrieds in general and stay-at-homes in particular have a lot to lose by confessing an affair
3. They are readily available and are probably not being carefully monitored
4. They seem different – perhaps more sensitive or conversational
5. Maybe it is the inverse of the attraction men feel towards powerful career women.
Posted by david rees on April 30, 2008 at 4:01 pm | permalink |
Hey David,
I agree that the chance of her ex e-mailing is remote at best, but maybe it seemed a perfect disguise.
"No one will think I'm writing about my situation if I pose the communication as several e-mails!"
Sometimes it's easy to overlook the obvious things in life because they seem TOO obvious.
Plus I signed up for Twitter cuz o' Ms. Trunk…I saw in one of her Twitters she was blogging about her hubby when he startled her.
This post is the nearest I can find that could pass for a blog about her husband.
Just a hunch.
Maybe Penelope needs someone to talk to other than her ex, friends who encouraged her to walk a way and lawyers.
OH NO! THERE'S A HOLE IN THE DAM!! A-RUN FOR YER LIVES LEST THE LEVEE BREAK!!
Although if she does start to talk about the proceedings, I think many of us will find it refreshing.
Oh, the life of a voyeur!
Posted by Ken on April 30, 2008 at 4:21 pm | permalink |
What's with my incessent use of spaces?
It was overkill in my last comment!
Maybe I'll trademark it.
Posted by Ken on April 30, 2008 at 4:22 pm | permalink |
The 5 paragraphs dealing with the affair don't make much sense to me. It just seemed off topic to go into a story about him cheating, taking up almost half of the post. Especially, because his motives and the relationship between him and his wife don't seem clearly explained.
We only get hints as to why he would have cheated on his wife such as: "I doubt my wife has a huge amount of respect for me", or where he mentions the power imbalance. The article glosses over the motives. Does she not respect him because she found out about the affair? Or did she not respect him before, thus leading to his affair?
I just wish their was more insight into how the relationship is working (how he feels about himself, his wife, kids, parenting, cheating, etc).
I just have so many questions. I don't understand why he did that. It initially sounded like things were alright, but then the affair made it sound like he was unhappy. And finally, he sounds almost indifferent about the whole thing, maybe even proud of his sexual conquest. I just don't get it…
One question that I think must be answered: Is he still married to the women he cheated on?
Posted by quibble on April 30, 2008 at 4:29 pm | permalink |
Came back to read more comments – I think my biggest problem remains that the post does not support the title, from my experience. If this dude feels good about his life, and you think it is representative of SAHDs, well, you're both entitled to your opinions – it is nothing like what I've been through and experienced though.
On a side not – you sure do have a lot of people who like to defend you Penelope. It seems kind of silly though, in a taking my ball and going home, good-riddance kind of way.
Posted by Jeremy (Discovering Dad) on April 30, 2008 at 4:31 pm | permalink |
Penelope, I'm sorry but Maggie explained the issues a lot better than your anonymous stay at home guy. She at least put it in context.
I think the cheating thing shouldn't be framed as an issue of gender. I don't think that this or anything else has suggested stay at home dads are more or less likely to cheat than stay at home moms.
There is a whole kettle of fish here on the topic of stay at home dads, but to address just one issue, I don't think more women hit on stay at home dads. I think they have more time to pick up on the fact that they are being hit on.
Just my pulled out of thin air theory.
Posted by Gretchen on April 30, 2008 at 4:46 pm | permalink |
As I regularly read Penelope's posts and comments, the same re-occurring thing always comes to mind. Career first, kids second, or wherever they fit in. Many of you are going to some day look back and say, wow, what was so dang important about my career and why the heck did I spend so much time on that rather than my family?
I have nothing against both parents working, one working, one at home…whatever. But as I approach 50 and I see how fast my life is going and my children have grown, I find it's my family that is giving me most satisfaction and meaning. Work and the career are really falling far behind. I imagine this will only continue as I get older.
What's really great about this is 30 years ago, my husband and I somehow realized…through know brainiac idea of our own…that these kids of ours were pretty important. The time we spent with them then is what's making them so enjoyable now.
Always keep in mind the song "Cat's in the Cradle."
That said, the SAHD is a total loser. Scum. Good riddance to him. Hmmm, Penelope's lawyer told her not to write about her husband..directly, that is.
Posted by sophie on April 30, 2008 at 4:52 pm | permalink |
Re: the issue of a SAHD being hit on. I don't think the stay-at-home-parent scene in any given neighborhood is that different from any social setting (broadly interpreted). If there are vastly more women than men in a workplace, or in a college classroom, or wherever, chances are the good looking, outgoing men in the group will be hit on –even if everyone knows they are married or otherwise in committed relationships and not theoretically available.
And the reverse is true too — women in professions dominated by men probably find they get hit on more than women in professions dominated by women or that are more equal. It's a numbers thing.
When I take my kids to a local drop in parent-tot gym, or a parent-baby class, or some such place, if a SAHD (or a dad with Friday's off who spends it with his kid) is there, and is outgoing and clearly a good, involved parent — as opposed to quiet and shy and awkward with his kid — he has a gaggle of giggly mums around him.
Posted by Mat leave mom on April 30, 2008 at 5:08 pm | permalink |
"respect takes a huge effort and a lot of mental tricks" WTF!!! I am so sorry that your marriage didn't work out – but don't think for a minute that most working women with SAHD require mental tricks to respect their husbands. I stayed at home for 3 years, before my husband took over – I have NOTHING but respect for what he does!
Posted by debbie on April 30, 2008 at 5:36 pm | permalink |
Ther ewas a movie about this exact topic. It was called "Mr. Mom," starring Michael Keaton. He almost has an affair with Ann Jillian.
This post just seems like the Mr. Mom movie to me, except that the Husbad in question closes the deal.
In my case though, we live in Chicagoland and my wife works in Kentucky. She flies to Kentucky every Tuesday morning and comes home Thursday night. When she is not in Kentucky, she is in North Carolina, Nevada, or in China or Vietnam. When she is overseas, she can be gone for 2 weeks or more at a time. I work too. But I do not travel.
Here is my schedule:
6:00 – 6:30 – Wake up kids and we all get ready
6:30 – 7:30 – eat breakfast sign / review homework
7:30 – Send kids to neighbors house
7:30 – Leave for bus
7:52 – Take bus to train station
8:12 – Take train to Chicago
work through lunch until 5:15
5:22 – take train back to suburbs
6:00 – take bus back to parking lot
6:30 – 7:30 – get home, pick up kids from soccer practice
7:00 – 9:00 – Make dinner, do dishes, do laundry, get kids to bed
9:00 – 12:00am work on side projects, blogs, etc. until bed.
I have someone watching my kids in the morning and someone else meeting them after school and getting them to soccer practice, helping with homework, etc.
My wife makes great money and her company has been very good to her. My day job is contract IT consulting where I get paid by the hour. I am on my wife's benefits.
It is not easy at all, I am practically a single parent. But the kids are 12 and 9 years old. I am trying to get them to be self reliant. They make their own breakfast in the morning, so that helps.
I have gotten used to being alone almost every night.
Posted by Jim Eiden on April 30, 2008 at 6:10 pm | permalink |
Another classic post. Starts with a Letter from the Penthouse Forum as Debbie and Lori so accurately pointed out (the email is definitely a fake-from either "the guy" or Penelope). Then, after the obligatory sex scene, you can add subtle digs at SAHD's to irritate the soon to be ex. Finally, a good collection of racuous comments including Clarissa's and Mr. STTM (Shane The Tool Man) who apparently like their dialogue one-sided and fawning. I guess Gen-Y'ers have no need for reflection and critical analysis.
More reasons why this is one of my favorite blogs to check in on before the end of the workday. Never a dull moment :)
Posted by Sidney on April 30, 2008 at 6:36 pm | permalink |
Wow, that guy sucks! First of all, I don't think you need a reason to put anything on your blog so I'm not going to ask you, "what's the point?". With that said, I'd love to hear more subtle issues working dads like me wouldn't think of when suddenly juggling the daily schedules of the family instead of juggling life at work. SAHD and the issues that would surround it is very interesting. Reading about this total slimeball was not the most interesting (but you have every right to blog about him :)
Posted by Rolly Keenan on April 30, 2008 at 6:40 pm | permalink |
This post isn't about her husband.
Posted by Nino on April 30, 2008 at 6:53 pm | permalink |
I loved the candid-ness. As a female professional with a high income (six figures), I am very worried about what will happen when my other half and I get to that point. I am the major bread winner but I know without a doubt that he will resent me for reminding him, and really resent me if I were to suggest that if someone stay home financially it should be him. Gender is clearly a huge factor; women are told to expect to be pampered by their man. Women get funny looks if they say that their husband stays home (trust me, I have a family member who has taken to lying to avoid this situation).
Women know what "must" be going through a man's mind, but seeing it in black and white is interesting. Men and women must fulfill the roles they feel are right for them (whether they are right or not?) or else their relationships will be dysfunctional. And it's so sad too, because sometimes people don't realize their strengths. The problem really starts when one spouse puts a role on another.
Why must stay at home parents talk about their kids? Why always the kids? Goodness, but don't they see them enough to talk about something else when they can? My sister said it best when outside the home and asked to talk about her kids (she is a stay at home mom): what? Are they here too?
Posted by Lydia on April 30, 2008 at 7:49 pm | permalink |
Why do women hit on stay home dads?
Stay home moms: because they're the only men in the playgroup.
Wealthy successful career women: because they think stay home dads are dumb pushovers who will act like office juniors when told what to do.
(Then there are the nice women of course. They don't hit on stay home dads at all. But we're not talking about them, are we.)
Posted by Alice Bachini-Smith on April 30, 2008 at 8:35 pm | permalink |
Hi Penelope, I've never commented on a post before, but I was reading through the comments here and I thought I'd just put in a word of support. I actually thought this was a well done post. It was honest, nothing more, nothing less. The guy didn't say that he hated being a stay at home husband, he didn't say he liked it either.
My wife is a stay at home wife (no kids yet). She's the one with the degree, and I'm the one with the career. So posts like these make me try to get into her head, and really get an understanding of how she may or may not be feeling. It helps me just be aware.
Thanks Penelope!
Posted by James on April 30, 2008 at 10:21 pm | permalink |
Wow today I realized you can subscribe to blogs instead of simply navigating to them. Isn't it amazing how something so simple can escape notice until brought up in conversation. Now I'm signed up. (-:
Posted by Lala on April 30, 2008 at 10:35 pm | permalink |
I'd like to say, by the way, that your blog is as intriguing/interesting as Casey Serin's was (back when he was on) when you drop bombs like this.
You have a lot of talent, Ms. Trunk.
Posted by Ken on April 30, 2008 at 11:38 pm | permalink |
I'm glad our world is changing to allow something other than the career husband and homemaker mother to be acceptable. We don't have to fit into those cookie cutters anymore and lets face it so many people in history never did fit.
I most likes the descriptions in the comments I have read so far about even more alternative work/parent situations. Day care is damn expensive!
I think Penelope should run for office. Her associate feels well respected by their spouse AND gets laid.
"Sex for everyone!" could be your platform.
Posted by Encouraged on May 1, 2008 at 12:46 am | permalink |
Bitter much?
Posted by mykel on May 1, 2008 at 1:31 am | permalink |
As the wife of a SAHD, I was not surprised by the post, but it was sad to read. My current husband has been at home as long as we've been together for one reason after another.
With my ex, I stayed home for years and worked hard to make sure the household was running smoothly, volunteered, baked/cooked etc.
I would have so much more respect for my husband if he would take his role as seriously as he would an outside job, instead of doing things half-way.
My schedule: wake up at 7, in car by 7:30 drive to work for an hour then work thru lunch to 5:30 and drive home for an hour. 2 out of 3 chance I will have to make dinner for myself and kids when I get home.
His schedule: sleep til 10am – toddlers get themselves up and watch cartoons, snacking on dry cereal. Surf internet and occasionally change diaper or get drinks/food for toddlers until midday. Watch TV until teens get home to take over babysitting, then back to internet. Occasionally do some laundry, but leave it in baskets for weeks.
He calls himself a stay at home dad, but it doesn't compare to what being a stay at home mom entails…not even close! Yet, he gets way more credit for his choice because people assume he does what a woman would be doing in his shoes: ie. cooking, shopping, cleaning, childcare, and just parenting in general.
Posted by kristi on May 1, 2008 at 1:37 am | permalink |
Penelope, you ask if women respect their stay at home husbands and why the world isn't talking about the downside.
My husband was a stay at home dad.
Now we are divorced and I'm still supporting him financially even though his definition of what it meant to be the stay at home parent and mine were much different and for the last 2 years of our marriage I was begging him to get a job … alas the divorce.
I would have respected him as a stay at home dad if he would have committed himself to it fully. If he had made parenting our children the purpose of his life, we'd probably still be married.
But, I came to discover that he was a stay at home dad because he had no other purpose and he thought it'd be the easy thing to do.
Surprise!
Thanks for raising the issue. Once again, you've inspired me to post on my blog about something I've been thinking about for a while. I'll track ya back.
Posted by Alexis on May 1, 2008 at 2:13 am | permalink |
This can't be a post by a real SAHD. The context's too close to PT's situation. And he doesn't even talk about being a dad. Either way, the guy comes across as a whiny loser who needs tail to feel better about himself.
Kudos to Ed Borden & Jeremy (Discovering Dad). I don't think I could juggle so much if I were in their places. Whoever stays at home needs to have a fair bit of inner strength – male or female. You guys rock.
Posted by Kiran Denniz on May 1, 2008 at 2:41 am | permalink |
sooo much has been said already so it's hard to add anything new here, but DUH!
Opinion of course….
Not going to waste another moment on it.
Posted by PG on May 1, 2008 at 2:44 am | permalink |
This post was about the sexiness of guys with kids. That's it. And, if true, it didn't even prove his point. He got a proposition from one 50 year old woman and went for it like a starving dog.
When the Gen Y Revolution changes everything, assholes like this are going to end up in the dustbin of history. If a Gen Y husband says he gets hit on, you'll know it's by two or three girls in their 20s and 30s every time he takes the kids for a stroll.
And he might be a bit flattered but he won't accept any of their value propositions because he's seen his own family wrecked by the poor behaviour of his Baby Boomer parents and doesn't want the same for his wife and kids.
And in the future, once the evil baby boomers are gone, people won't need to cheat on eachother because they'll have a better set up with relatively brief serial marriages that don't allow partners to get bored. (Once everyone starts living to 130, lifetime monogamy is going out the window).
And everyone's going to be telecommuting anyway so there won't be any more househusbands or wives.
Posted by Recruiting Animal on May 1, 2008 at 6:38 am | permalink |
@Penelope – thanks for the post.
@Kristi and Alexis – thanks for your comments on this post as it easily demonstrates to me the importance of comments on a blog and has helped me to understand this particular issue.
Posted by Mark W. on May 1, 2008 at 7:37 am | permalink |
Love the blogs about managing your career, and frequently share them and enlist new subscribers. Not at all interested in the ones that are self-serving (eg, this one and the one about fighting/flirting with your business partner.) It's putting yourself out there in a negative way.
You have a certain talent that can make you famous and RESPECTED. We all know you're in tremendous pain, and many of us sympathize or even empathize. Be careful not to sabotage yourself by allowing emotion to preside over intelligence. Focus…
Posted by Perplexed on May 1, 2008 at 8:15 am | permalink |
As a stay at home dad, there are aspects of this article and the comments that followed that are upsetting and also hit the nail on the head. Until 2 months ago, I had been a stay at home dad. When I lost my job at the world's largest retailer, we were left financially strapped and ended up fialing bancruptcy. With all out debt eliminated we decided that financially it would be in our best intrest if I just stayed at home with our then 1year old daughter. As a stay at home dad, I never recieved and propositions as stated in the above artical. Even if I did, I would have rejected them, because I loved my wife and respected her to much to even think of such things. Unfortunatly that's where the issue of respect comes in. As a stay at home dad watching a toddler all day long, I felt like my wife didn't respect me, or what I did and the sacrifice I was making for our family. I hated being a stay at home dad. At first it was nice, sit at home, play with my daughter, play compouter games while she napped. But it's still a Job. There is cleaning to do, dishes, laundry, and most importantly, caring for a child. All with no pay. Yet my wife would come home from work in the US Air Force and would complain about her job, bitch at me for something not getting done that I didn't think was I didn't think was important, and immediatly go lay down and fall asleep. It got real old, real fast. But I kept tellimg myself it would get better, we just have to adjust. Well now I am back in the work force and going back to college to get my degree, my daughter goes to day care, and my wife and I are getting a divorce (I found out that durring those years that I was a stay at home dad, she was having affairs with my friends and her co-workers. And now she's engaged to a Canadian even though we're still married and she's still in the Air Force). It wasn't easy, and damn anyone who says that stay at home dad's are lazy bums. I worked my tail off to make sure our life stayed as normal as possible. I love my daughter and I give her everything she needs and so much more. The one thing that was the best about being a stay at home dad… being able to raise my daughter durring those key years of life. I wouldn't trade that for the best paying job in the world.
Posted by John H. on May 1, 2008 at 8:40 am | permalink |
Of what this man is facing and what you are trying to show your readers. But I would disagree that this guy is a complete jerk and (gasp) think that a lot of the comments directed at him are sexist.
I think if it had been a woman in his position you would see other posters stroking her ego and forgiving her, probably blaming her husband for neglecting her needs and offering advice to her on how she can make her SAH life a little more rewarding. So lets try applying that advice here….
I think the Dad/Husband in question does sound like he is a little restless and unchallenged (intellectually and perhaps sexually speaking). Like a lot of women in his position he probably feels like he can't burden the breadwinner with his needs because he stays at home and his life and pressures are probably seen as less than hers. Maybe he and his wife should try a little harder to find private time or plan date nights, maybe he needs to ask for that time and feels awkward about it?
His anxiety about seeming or realizing he is chauvanist reveals a lot but not what I "think" he is looking for. I think he just feels surprised that he sympathizes with women in his role and yet feels emasculated for having to talk about how he's feeling to his wife. That, to me, doesn't have anything to do with his SAHD status, I think that happens in any relationship, regardless of circumstances. The SAHD is just there to blame, when in fact, there are plenty of men who work full time who feel the same apprehension about approaching their working wives about the very same thing.
To me, his SAHD status is a scapegoat for a routine marital problem that he shouldn't feel embarrassed about. Plenty of spouses feel confused in this role and even more face need fulfillment issues without being at home all the time.
Lastly, maybe it's time for a change. Maybe he needs to figure out how to find time for his own career or intellectual needs. A hobby, classes in something he likes, or activity outside the home? Again, I do think that advice of this nature would have been heaped upon him had he been a woman and while I don't excuse cheating, the causes behind it are not because hes a male or a jerk.
Posted by Dorothy on May 1, 2008 at 9:13 am | permalink |
In case the first sentence of my comment looks confusing, I had put "I think I get the essence". It was a lead in to my first sentence. :)
Posted by Dorothy on May 1, 2008 at 9:16 am | permalink |
How insulting to all the REAL Stay-At-Home-Dads. I'm disappointed that you chose this guy over the TONS that supposedly want YOU to interview them. You are obviously a poor judge of character or you posted this just for the attention you knew it'd get you. Sad.
Posted by Nina on May 1, 2008 at 9:27 am | permalink |
It seems that if you want to have a real conversation about the topic of stay at home dads, which you have brought up several times, you need to post some real conversations/interviews with both the husband and the wife. This topic is great, truly intersting and important for people with young kids or thinking of having kids. However this approach leaves me feeling as though this was posted to rouse comments- not to really explore the issue.
Posted by Melissa on May 1, 2008 at 9:48 am | permalink |
this is depressing…the whole thread. People waste too much time worrying about how others live their lives. It is possi ble to live in difficult circumstances, in challenging times and choose "happily." Who cares why some women hit on SAHDs? Unless you are a bored SAHD.
Posted by Dave Atkins on May 1, 2008 at 9:51 am | permalink |
So the only thing I am seeing with this post is the common factor that you both enjoy flirting with other people??? If this was meant to be eye opening, all it did was show that there is one guy out there who is a sponge and living the life of Reily. His wife doesn't care because she is probably out a lot herself on "business trips," and she gets off on being empowered by being the money maker. Sorry, but this was a frivilous post because it said absolutely nothing about being a house husband. Have you been flirting with him as well?
Posted by Phil on May 1, 2008 at 9:52 am | permalink |
Way off base Dorothy – the people who have been hardest on the man in the article are the fathers and husbands. Thats not being sexist, thats just men being men (although to some, they are synonymous)
Of course we would approach it differently if it was a woman – you would still get disdain and disgust, but it would be from a different angle. Despite all the truly great progress that has been made, men and women are still different.
Men interact, bond and judge men in ways that are entirely different than the ways we interact with women. This is nowhere near changing and that is why, as a man, I can say with complete confidence that the guy in the story is a disgusting example of what a husband and father should be.
Any men want to speak up for him? Give him a little sympathy? Aw, poor guy, maybe he had issues growing up and always had a thing for cougars…
I motion to pass a man-law resolution affirming the male in the post to me an unmitigated asshole.
Posted by david rees on May 1, 2008 at 9:57 am | permalink |
I disagree. I know that men and women are different, that wasn't what I was arguing. I think that couples face real difficulty expressing their needs in marriage and esp when you are changing traditional roles. I wasn't sympathizing with him or excusing cheating, I was offering a source of a deeper problem.
I don't think he was an unmitigated asshole and the convenience of doing so may be entertaining but at its root, there is a more fundamental communication problem worth addressing.
I was just arguing that such problems exist regardless of whether or not he is a SAHD and if anything, was arguing that he shouldn't use his role to excuse his behavior. Choosing to focus on male-bashing seems a little adolescent and out of date.
Generalizing for cheap clarity is not what Penelope's blog is about, perhaps you should check out Perez Hilton instead.
Posted by Dorothy on May 1, 2008 at 10:07 am | permalink |
Wow! some of you have some serious relationship issues that you may want to work out for yourselves.
Not to say that I was impressed by this guy, but since I'm the bread winner and my wife stays at home to take care of our children I viewed it as what she might think/feel about me, my work, our relationship, and how I can/should/will do a better job of making her understand that her role is just as important(if not more so) and just like me she needs to have more than just her work in her life. Of course, I believe that is the hard part for the stay at homers since your "work" is your family.
Posted by bill martineau on May 1, 2008 at 10:17 am | permalink |
Penelope,
One of my biggest disagreements with you is that you put self fulfillment (ie. selfishness) above all else. The 2 reasons the author likes being a SAHD are selfish ones-the money & he gets to do whatever he wants.
You have no objective standards of right & wrong-your philosophy seems to be "find self-fulfillment however you can" no matter what the costs to others. This guy is a piece of crap who should be first worrying about raising his kids & being the best dad he can be.
As far as getting chicks from being a SAHD-this is ridiculous. Any guy with social skills can pick up chicks in today's society. If he feels good about himself for hanging with some old bag that is pretty pathetic.
Posted by Neil C on May 1, 2008 at 10:18 am | permalink |
Penelope:
Here goes:
* Is being a stay-at-home dad any different than the life that Betty Friedan and Sylvia Plath worked so hard to get away from?
Yes, and that difference lies in two factors – choice and the complex feelings/ response created by socialisation of genders
* Is the world really ready for stay-at-home dads? Will the world ever be ready? We have done a more successful job, I think, integrating women into the work world than men into the domestic world. Are women crossing these boundaries more validated than the men who cross the boundaries?
The world really does not give a damn. Those, who think too much about others paying attention to them and worse, laughing at them, really should see a shrink to take the clinical paranoia test. People really do not have time to think about others' life style so much as these clearly-idle-stay-at-home folks (of either gender) think.
* Why is the world not talking about the downside of being a stay-at-home dad? Moms complain about this lifestyle all the time –when they are doing it — but men don’t.
See above. Also it is a _choice_ to have children. Ergo, a choice to outsource that baby-rearing or to stay home and do it yourself. If one is adult enough to procreate, one is adult enough to deal with the consequences.
And which moms are you talking about? The few of my female friends, who are SAHMs, do not complain. They have a full life and others envy them their freedom while thanks to no complaining, few see the downsides which, obviously, then do not get discussed.
* Do women respect their stay-at-home husbands? I wonder if women might have to work very very hard to respect their husbands who stay at home. Perhaps gratitude comes easily, but respect takes a huge effort and a lot of mental tricks.
I think you are much better-placed to answer that question yourself than most others, no? :-) For the rest, here is the rub – some people just cannot respect others, whether at home or in the workplace. Others have a greater dose of empathy and good sense. Most people, who do well and are liked at work, carry the same values at home and at work – fairness, hard work, respect.
There is no real gender divide here, except when imagined.
* Why do women hit on stay-at-home dads?
For the same reason that random male readers hit on women bloggers; the same reason why men cat-call or whistle at women in general; the same reason why anyone picks on a minority – a combination of 'exoticness' hence rarity value and general gender issues.
If you do not already know of it, you may want to follow a Sunday column called Slummy Mummy here in the UK. There is a character Sexy Domesticated Dad in there. He is friends with Slummy Mummy, Lucy, but she almost always reads more into his texts than he means. This is not a conclusion, just a suggestion that it _is_ possible to jump to conclusions with little or no data.
Thanks.
Posted by Shefaly on May 1, 2008 at 10:26 am | permalink |
If he feels good about himself for hanging with some old bag that is pretty pathetic…
Neil: What bunch of BS. If SAHD had been with a 20-yr. old "chick" would his self-esteem be more understandable than "pathetic?" What kind of standard is that? A single 50 yr. old with power and moxy is not an old bag.
Posted by meg c on May 1, 2008 at 10:47 am | permalink |
Meg,
My point is that this guy does not feel good about raising his kids just about hitting on some woman. Whether she is 20 or 50 does not matter.
Posted by Neil C on May 1, 2008 at 11:13 am | permalink |
Penelope,
First let me tell you that I have always looked to you as a beacon of wisdom about today's job environment… however this is one in a long of posts that have progressively declined in quality. You seem to be repeating yourself a lot recently and perhaps you picked up on that, and in an attempt to break that pattern you hastily found the best example you could of a stay-at-home dad. However I agree with many of the comments above. What was the point of putting in the part about the affair? Even if it's the truth…Did you not think that would automatically make your readers HATE this gentleman and COMPLETELY discredit anything he had to say?? I know it did for me. Sorry, I appreciate the attempt to break with your recently-stale posts, but it was a miss. Look forward to some more outstanding, fresh ideas soon!
Posted by Ed F. on May 1, 2008 at 11:17 am | permalink |
Wow, what an inflammatory post. It's no wonder you are deluged with comments–this post is like a troll to stay-at-home Moms and Dads, on the one hand suggesting that corporate women can't be trusted with other women's husbands (or, it seems, share their life with their own). On the other hand, the post suggests that stay-at-home Dads have nothing better to do with their time than make assignations with their wives' associates.
Where, exactly, is the "Dad" part of this post? And why, with all the fantastic stay-at-home Dads out there working hard to raise their kids in an empowering environment, did you pick this one guy, who admits to having been a chauvinist "in the past" (ha!) and sneaking around behind his wife's back (whether or not anything sexual happened is beside the point; this is not a trustworthy man).
You say you get mail from stay-at-home Dads all th time asking you to talk about their lives: again, why pick this one? You're insulting them by even suggesting this guy is the typical SAHD.
Posted by Viv on May 1, 2008 at 11:32 am | permalink |