Comments on: Twentysomething: Why I regret getting straight A's in college http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/12/04/twentysomething-why-i-regret-getting-straight-as-in-college/ Advice at the intersection of work and life Wed, 17 Mar 2010 01:04:51 -0600 http://wordpress.org/?v=abc hourly 1 By: Angus http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/12/04/twentysomething-why-i-regret-getting-straight-as-in-college/comment-page-5/#comment-221687 Angus Sat, 27 Feb 2010 10:49:14 +0000 http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/12/04/twentysomething-why-i-regret-getting-straight-as-in-college/#comment-221687 What you learnt from working 70 hours a week doing something boring and pointless was how to work 70 hours a week doing something boring nd pointless surely? And your ability to work so hard is clearly what's made you successful today. I often feel a bit bitter about my college experience because I spent more time working than patying. It definately wasnt the the 'time of my life' that everyone said it would be. But it toughened me up and forced me to grow up a whole lot faster than my peers. What you learnt from working 70 hours a week doing something boring and pointless was how to work 70 hours a week doing something boring nd pointless surely? And your ability to work so hard is clearly what's made you successful today.

I often feel a bit bitter about my college experience because I spent more time working than patying. It definately wasnt the the 'time of my life' that everyone said it would be. But it toughened me up and forced me to grow up a whole lot faster than my peers.

]]> By: SeSa http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/12/04/twentysomething-why-i-regret-getting-straight-as-in-college/comment-page-5/#comment-221633 SeSa Fri, 26 Feb 2010 00:39:51 +0000 http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/12/04/twentysomething-why-i-regret-getting-straight-as-in-college/#comment-221633 With mixed feelings, I sent this post to my daughter this morning. Achievement, perspective, excellence, fullness, choices, freedom, responsibility, love, life. It's a lot for the young to master during their first venture away from home. With mixed feelings, I sent this post to my daughter this morning. Achievement, perspective, excellence, fullness, choices, freedom, responsibility, love, life. It's a lot for the young to master during their first venture away from home.

]]> By: Sergey Alekhin http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/12/04/twentysomething-why-i-regret-getting-straight-as-in-college/comment-page-5/#comment-220957 Sergey Alekhin Tue, 16 Feb 2010 22:37:09 +0000 http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/12/04/twentysomething-why-i-regret-getting-straight-as-in-college/#comment-220957 "You’re better making powerful friends, building a killer résumé, and generally having the time of your life on your parent’s dime." "You’re better making powerful friends, building a killer résumé, and generally having the time of your life on your parent’s dime."

]]> By: Andrew http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/12/04/twentysomething-why-i-regret-getting-straight-as-in-college/comment-page-5/#comment-219694 Andrew Sun, 31 Jan 2010 03:21:53 +0000 http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/12/04/twentysomething-why-i-regret-getting-straight-as-in-college/#comment-219694 Okay...there seems to generally be two camps here... The first camp of posters believe that grades are one of the most important things that anyone could ever achieve. Most of these posters generally disagree with the OP. The second camp of posters believe GPA isn't as important than making contacts and gaining experience. I went to Stony Brook University. The school is ranked top 1 percent of all colleges and the average GPA is a 2.5. Subsequently, I got a 3.86 as a history major. I used to think that your GPA was everything (hey, your parents and teacher always said so.) All of the jobs I got were through people I know. I never received a job based on either my GPA or transcript. Yes, I put my GPA on my resume, but I highly doubt they would have requested my transcipt because I was really involved in the community. Grades "helped", but the job offer I received after college (work at Barclay's Investment Bank--employer I knew never asked me my grades, but he knew me and he knew I was smart.) The point is grades are very important in two scenarios: 1) If you want to advance your education and 2) If you are a student sending out your resume to employers you don't know and have minimal work experience (i.e. you worked at McDonalds, a store on minimum wage salary, etc.) If you have a pretty strong network though and have a good personality, then you will get a job. We're never taught this because, let's face it, we'd like to think people got high paying jobs because of the work ethic they have. This may or may not be the case. It may have more to do with the person's personality, their ambition, luck and who they know, which really has nothing to do with academic performance. The one thing good grades did do for me was get me into a good law school. I'm a 1L and currently have a summer job for a law firm (through contacts) and the employer never asked for my transcript or asked to see my grades. I'm saying this to show that networking is important too. Overall, I do agree with the OP on this. I think many of the points he addressed were spot on. I also forgot to mention that some extremely smart students end up teaching. And if you want to be a professor, grades can be important down the line. But I can't tell you how many people I know who became very successful who went to nationally unrecognizeable college (or only graduated from High School.) And yes, Bush was a C student in college. So was John Kerry. Did Reagan attend college? Obama was a top student, but Biden was not (bottom of the class in both Syracuse and Syracuse Law School.) Overall, I have to say, who cares. Okay…there seems to generally be two camps here…

The first camp of posters believe that grades are one of the most important things that anyone could ever achieve. Most of these posters generally disagree with the OP.

The second camp of posters believe GPA isn't as important than making contacts and gaining experience.

I went to Stony Brook University. The school is ranked top 1 percent of all colleges and the average GPA is a 2.5. Subsequently, I got a 3.86 as a history major. I used to think that your GPA was everything (hey, your parents and teacher always said so.)

All of the jobs I got were through people I know. I never received a job based on either my GPA or transcript. Yes, I put my GPA on my resume, but I highly doubt they would have requested my transcipt because I was really involved in the community. Grades "helped", but the job offer I received after college (work at Barclay's Investment Bank–employer I knew never asked me my grades, but he knew me and he knew I was smart.)

The point is grades are very important in two scenarios: 1) If you want to advance your education and 2) If you are a student sending out your resume to employers you don't know and have minimal work experience (i.e. you worked at McDonalds, a store on minimum wage salary, etc.) If you have a pretty strong network though and have a good personality, then you will get a job. We're never taught this because, let's face it, we'd like to think people got high paying jobs because of the work ethic they have. This may or may not be the case. It may have more to do with the person's personality, their ambition, luck and who they know, which really has nothing to do with academic performance.

The one thing good grades did do for me was get me into a good law school. I'm a 1L and currently have a summer job for a law firm (through contacts) and the employer never asked for my transcript or asked to see my grades. I'm saying this to show that networking is important too. Overall, I do agree with the OP on this. I think many of the points he addressed were spot on.

I also forgot to mention that some extremely smart students end up teaching. And if you want to be a professor, grades can be important down the line. But I can't tell you how many people I know who became very successful who went to nationally unrecognizeable college (or only graduated from High School.)

And yes, Bush was a C student in college. So was John Kerry. Did Reagan attend college? Obama was a top student, but Biden was not (bottom of the class in both Syracuse and Syracuse Law School.)

Overall, I have to say, who cares.

]]> By: Lilian http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/12/04/twentysomething-why-i-regret-getting-straight-as-in-college/comment-page-5/#comment-218927 Lilian Fri, 22 Jan 2010 13:06:07 +0000 http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/12/04/twentysomething-why-i-regret-getting-straight-as-in-college/#comment-218927 I had brilliant results in high school, great enough results in college and then went on to a degree. When I came out to work, I wondered why I ever bothered to study in the first place because it did nothing to help with my career. And the reason was, for all the studying, I had no idea what I wanted to work as, even when I was looking for my first job. In my opinion, good grades without a goal sucks. Teachers should make more effort to help students find their career path. My parents weren't much help because of money, they had to take whatever job opportunities that came their way. For them, as long as you work for a good company, with good salary, that would do, but for me, I wanted job satisfaction and had no idea what I wanted to do. I had brilliant results in high school, great enough results in college and then went on to a degree. When I came out to work, I wondered why I ever bothered to study in the first place because it did nothing to help with my career. And the reason was, for all the studying, I had no idea what I wanted to work as, even when I was looking for my first job. In my opinion, good grades without a goal sucks. Teachers should make more effort to help students find their career path. My parents weren't much help because of money, they had to take whatever job opportunities that came their way. For them, as long as you work for a good company, with good salary, that would do, but for me, I wanted job satisfaction and had no idea what I wanted to do.

]]> By: David http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/12/04/twentysomething-why-i-regret-getting-straight-as-in-college/comment-page-5/#comment-217626 David Fri, 08 Jan 2010 22:44:43 +0000 http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/12/04/twentysomething-why-i-regret-getting-straight-as-in-college/#comment-217626 While I agree with a lot of what you say, I'd like to put in my 2 cents. Yes, you forget 95% of everything, but I don't think that the purpose of getting straight A's is to remember stuff. I don't regret forgetting stuff since I will never use it again. Getting straight A's is to exercise your motivation and determination skills, NOT necessarily remember the material. I've gotten all A's in 2009 in college and I do NOT regret it. I am only doing it because I am in community college, and the school I want to transfer to requires at least a 3.2gpa for my major. I still have 14 classes I have to take in community college. I can now relax in 2010 and not have to worry about getting A's so much. As long as I average B's, I will be able to transfer to my school =D. While I agree with a lot of what you say, I'd like to put in my 2 cents.

Yes, you forget 95% of everything, but I don't think that the purpose of getting straight A's is to remember stuff. I don't regret forgetting stuff since I will never use it again. Getting straight A's is to exercise your motivation and determination skills, NOT necessarily remember the material.

I've gotten all A's in 2009 in college and I do NOT regret it. I am only doing it because I am in community college, and the school I want to transfer to requires at least a 3.2gpa for my major. I still have 14 classes I have to take in community college. I can now relax in 2010 and not have to worry about getting A's so much. As long as I average B's, I will be able to transfer to my school =D.

]]> By: Jacob http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/12/04/twentysomething-why-i-regret-getting-straight-as-in-college/comment-page-5/#comment-217583 Jacob Fri, 08 Jan 2010 17:41:40 +0000 http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/12/04/twentysomething-why-i-regret-getting-straight-as-in-college/#comment-217583 Good grades are important. People are screened by their grades. You cannot get an interview at some places without a minimum of a 3.0 GPA. Depending on your school and major even that feat is not easy. Without at least a 3.0 GPA it is difficult to get internships that give you that valuable work experience and connections within the professional world. This is especially important when you don't have connections of your own and rely on someone else to hire you. A low GPA can cost a person thousands of dollars due to the effort required to build their value in the eyes of others and the lost opportunities due to screening. I feel the issue with your story is time management and work-life balance. It's a problem that most people don't want to address because of the Puritan work ethic that is so ingrained in our society. Any indication that a person wants to enjoy life is seen as laziness because our society is so competitive. Being a lawyer is not easy. Most don't make a lot of money. It's hard to find jobs. However, the profession can be good if you can pursue your passion in a supportive environment. It's just like any other job in that regard. The law is not truly for people looking to make a lot of money but there are some "successful" attorneys like that. Lastly, I agree with learning for the sake of learning. I did that throughout college and law school. I didn't have the pre-college background to coast through college or law school on raw talent. I had to work hard for my mostly C's and B's with the occasional A's when I got to study what interested me. I studied what I wanted and it hurt my GPA. I still get screened out of some jobs to this day. I value my experience from those days but I still wish those grades were better. Connections help but you cannot exploit them without the proper credentials and sometimes that credential is a high GPA. There are no easy roads. But you're right, GPA is only one small part of the equation. Good grades are important. People are screened by their grades. You cannot get an interview at some places without a minimum of a 3.0 GPA. Depending on your school and major even that feat is not easy.

Without at least a 3.0 GPA it is difficult to get internships that give you that valuable work experience and connections within the professional world. This is especially important when you don't have connections of your own and rely on someone else to hire you.

A low GPA can cost a person thousands of dollars due to the effort required to build their value in the eyes of others and the lost opportunities due to screening.

I feel the issue with your story is time management and work-life balance. It's a problem that most people don't want to address because of the Puritan work ethic that is so ingrained in our society. Any indication that a person wants to enjoy life is seen as laziness because our society is so competitive.

Being a lawyer is not easy. Most don't make a lot of money. It's hard to find jobs. However, the profession can be good if you can pursue your passion in a supportive environment. It's just like any other job in that regard. The law is not truly for people looking to make a lot of money but there are some "successful" attorneys like that.

Lastly, I agree with learning for the sake of learning. I did that throughout college and law school. I didn't have the pre-college background to coast through college or law school on raw talent. I had to work hard for my mostly C's and B's with the occasional A's when I got to study what interested me. I studied what I wanted and it hurt my GPA. I still get screened out of some jobs to this day. I value my experience from those days but I still wish those grades were better.

Connections help but you cannot exploit them without the proper credentials and sometimes that credential is a high GPA. There are no easy roads. But you're right, GPA is only one small part of the equation.

]]> By: BBAmp http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/12/04/twentysomething-why-i-regret-getting-straight-as-in-college/comment-page-5/#comment-217471 BBAmp Thu, 07 Jan 2010 21:47:57 +0000 http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/12/04/twentysomething-why-i-regret-getting-straight-as-in-college/#comment-217471 It's probably good to mention that unless you are going to something like med school, straight A's don't matter. I've noticed this real world GPA issue before. Never once was I asked about a GPA in my web development job, or my RNA research job. It was also disconcerting that nothing I had learned in school applied to the work I did. However the A's I am getting now and the 3.75 GPA I want is great for med school. I knew someone with a lot of B's who went to grad school and is doing very well for herself. Good grades aren't everything, I agree. It's probably good to mention that unless you are going to something like med school, straight A's don't matter. I've noticed this real world GPA issue before. Never once was I asked about a GPA in my web development job, or my RNA research job. It was also disconcerting that nothing I had learned in school applied to the work I did.

However the A's I am getting now and the 3.75 GPA I want is great for med school.

I knew someone with a lot of B's who went to grad school and is doing very well for herself. Good grades aren't everything, I agree.

]]> By: Raha http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/12/04/twentysomething-why-i-regret-getting-straight-as-in-college/comment-page-5/#comment-217037 Raha Tue, 29 Dec 2009 22:55:46 +0000 http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/12/04/twentysomething-why-i-regret-getting-straight-as-in-college/#comment-217037 Hi Jon, I'm a college student who is a little confused by your post (though it is very interesting!) Regarding other objections, it's not enough to say that getting A's in school is possible 'despite' having a wholesome lifestyle. Actually, I believe that doing your best in school is necessary if you want to have a truly wholesome/fulfilling life. What I mean is that if you spend your time wisely, if you are inquisitive, if you explore ideas thoroughly (all characteristics of someone who lives a wholesome lifestyle), then you should be able to get great grades. Of course: making good relationships, enjoying yourself.. those are also characteristics of someone who leads a wholesome lifestyle, but why should that second batch of characteristics be somewhat mutually exclusive from the first? Hi Jon,
I'm a college student who is a little confused by your post (though it is very interesting!)

Regarding other objections, it's not enough to say that getting A's in school is possible 'despite' having a wholesome lifestyle. Actually, I believe that doing your best in school is necessary if you want to have a truly wholesome/fulfilling life.

What I mean is that if you spend your time wisely, if you are inquisitive, if you explore ideas thoroughly (all characteristics of someone who lives a wholesome lifestyle), then you should be able to get great grades.

Of course: making good relationships, enjoying yourself.. those are also characteristics of someone who leads a wholesome lifestyle, but why should that second batch of characteristics be somewhat mutually exclusive from the first?

]]> By: Raha http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/12/04/twentysomething-why-i-regret-getting-straight-as-in-college/comment-page-5/#comment-217036 Raha Tue, 29 Dec 2009 22:55:28 +0000 http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/12/04/twentysomething-why-i-regret-getting-straight-as-in-college/#comment-217036 Hi Jon, I'm a college student who is a little confused by your post (though it is very interesting!) Regarding other objections, it's not enough to say that getting A's in school is possible 'despite' having a wholesome lifestyle. Actually, I believe that doing your best in school is necessary if you want to have a truly wholesome/fulfilling life. What I mean is that if you spend your time wisely, if you are inquisitive, if you explore ideas thoroughly (all characteristics of someone who lives a wholesome lifestyle), then you should be able to get great grades. Of course: making good relationships, enjoying yourself.. those are also characteristics of someone who leads a wholesome lifestyle, but why should that second batch of characteristics be mutually exclusive from the first? Hi Jon,
I'm a college student who is a little confused by your post (though it is very interesting!)

Regarding other objections, it's not enough to say that getting A's in school is possible 'despite' having a wholesome lifestyle. Actually, I believe that doing your best in school is necessary if you want to have a truly wholesome/fulfilling life.

What I mean is that if you spend your time wisely, if you are inquisitive, if you explore ideas thoroughly (all characteristics of someone who lives a wholesome lifestyle), then you should be able to get great grades.

Of course: making good relationships, enjoying yourself.. those are also characteristics of someone who leads a wholesome lifestyle, but why should that second batch of characteristics be mutually exclusive from the first?

]]>