Comments on: Stop thinking you'll get by on your high I.Q. http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/11/20/stop-thinking-youll-get-by-on-your-high-iq/ Advice at the intersection of work and life Sun, 14 Mar 2010 02:39:13 -0600 http://wordpress.org/?v=abc hourly 1 By: Phil Joseph http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/11/20/stop-thinking-youll-get-by-on-your-high-iq/comment-page-2/#comment-223234 Phil Joseph Wed, 10 Mar 2010 02:52:50 +0000 http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/11/20/stop-thinking-youll-get-by-on-your-high-iq/#comment-223234 Hey Jeff, Thanks for the optimism. Ironically, my first job offer came in today (at Accenture)! Guess trying to be more personable and sociable is working! Best, Phil Hey Jeff,

Thanks for the optimism. Ironically, my first job offer came in today (at Accenture)! Guess trying to be more personable and sociable is working!

Best,

Phil

]]> By: Jeffrey Deutsch http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/11/20/stop-thinking-youll-get-by-on-your-high-iq/comment-page-2/#comment-222894 Jeffrey Deutsch Sun, 07 Mar 2010 21:59:39 +0000 http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/11/20/stop-thinking-youll-get-by-on-your-high-iq/#comment-222894 Hello Phil, I know what you're talking about. I myself graduated from college right before a recession. As career strategist Marilyn Moats Kennedy pointed out during our last major recession, when the economy goes bad the employers focus even more on personal style and polish. I work with fellow Aspies on employment issues among other things. Please let me know if you feel I can help you. Good luck, Phil! Jeff Deutsch Hello Phil,

I know what you're talking about. I myself graduated from college right before a recession.

As career strategist Marilyn Moats Kennedy pointed out during our last major recession, when the economy goes bad the employers focus even more on personal style and polish.

I work with fellow Aspies on employment issues among other things. Please let me know if you feel I can help you.

Good luck, Phil!

Jeff Deutsch

]]> By: Phil Joseph http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/11/20/stop-thinking-youll-get-by-on-your-high-iq/comment-page-2/#comment-222830 Phil Joseph Sun, 07 Mar 2010 03:39:44 +0000 http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/11/20/stop-thinking-youll-get-by-on-your-high-iq/#comment-222830 Excellent article. I am a senior at NYU Stern and have been trying to figure out why job interviews are going so poorly. I have gotten every interview that I apply for (over 20 interviews) but have never even been invited for a second round! Meanwhile, some morons with GPAs and GMAT scores far lower than mine are raking in offers left and right! It seemed unbelievable to me, but perhaps my social skills (or lack thereof) are hindering me. I guess being a 3.94 GPA student with a 690 GMAT from a top-ranked business school isn't enough for the likes of PricewaterhouseCoopers or Deloitte & Touche. Any thoughts on how to improve my social skills? I'm desperate for employment! Excellent article. I am a senior at NYU Stern and have been trying to figure out why job interviews are going so poorly. I have gotten every interview that I apply for (over 20 interviews) but have never even been invited for a second round! Meanwhile, some morons with GPAs and GMAT scores far lower than mine are raking in offers left and right! It seemed unbelievable to me, but perhaps my social skills (or lack thereof) are hindering me.

I guess being a 3.94 GPA student with a 690 GMAT from a top-ranked business school isn't enough for the likes of PricewaterhouseCoopers or Deloitte & Touche. Any thoughts on how to improve my social skills? I'm desperate for employment!

]]> By: Jane Jensen http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/11/20/stop-thinking-youll-get-by-on-your-high-iq/comment-page-2/#comment-222545 Jane Jensen Thu, 04 Mar 2010 21:35:36 +0000 http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/11/20/stop-thinking-youll-get-by-on-your-high-iq/#comment-222545 Great set of articles. I have a special kid in my life with Asperger's He had struggled up until junior high when he demanded that the "special ed. aides" stop following him around. Since then "aide" free he is working out the issues he has run into with a lot of diet and supplement help from his family. Because he has a great sense of humor which we encourage he is able to not sweat the crazy stuff. Great set of articles. I have a special kid in my life with Asperger's He had struggled up until junior high when he demanded that the "special ed. aides" stop following him around. Since then "aide" free he is working out the issues he has run into with a lot of diet and supplement help from his family. Because he has a great sense of humor which we encourage he is able to not sweat the crazy stuff.

]]> By: The Great Interview Experiment 2009: Otir! | Vicki Boykis http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/11/20/stop-thinking-youll-get-by-on-your-high-iq/comment-page-2/#comment-214178 The Great Interview Experiment 2009: Otir! | Vicki Boykis Mon, 16 Nov 2009 12:11:42 +0000 http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/11/20/stop-thinking-youll-get-by-on-your-high-iq/#comment-214178 [...] of Penelope Trunk,, also sometimes writes about autistic spectrum issues with her younger son (here’s one of those posts)-in between creating a great deal of controversy in the blogosphere in general, and how she deals [...] [...] of Penelope Trunk,, also sometimes writes about autistic spectrum issues with her younger son (here's one of those posts)-in between creating a great deal of controversy in the blogosphere in general, and how she deals [...]

]]> By: Don Sakers http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/11/20/stop-thinking-youll-get-by-on-your-high-iq/comment-page-2/#comment-212721 Don Sakers Tue, 27 Oct 2009 00:08:49 +0000 http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/11/20/stop-thinking-youll-get-by-on-your-high-iq/#comment-212721 I agree with your basic point that kids with Aspergers can benefit from help with developing and improving social skills. Please, though, be careful with quotes like "...adults can't maintain close relationships. It's a limited life and it's limited in the area where people have an inherent need to thrive." I'm a 51-year-old with Aspergers; as a child I had no special training in social skills. I have a spouse of 22 years, many close friends and a wide social circle, and am generally well-liked at work (I have worked full-time for the public library for 29 years). I write science fiction & fantasy (I have 11 books currently in print) and do a monthly book review column for the nation's leading science fiction magazine. I've traveled all across the country and outside it, and basically have a very enjoyable life. I don't consider my life "limited" and I don't think any objective observer would, either. Yes, training in social skills (had such been available 40 years ago) would probably have made my awkward adolescent and teen years go a bit more smoothly...but whose adolescent and teen years <b>did</b> go smoothly? I agree with your basic point that kids with Aspergers can benefit from help with developing and improving social skills.

Please, though, be careful with quotes like "…adults can't maintain close relationships. It's a limited life and it's limited in the area where people have an inherent need to thrive."

I'm a 51-year-old with Aspergers; as a child I had no special training in social skills. I have a spouse of 22 years, many close friends and a wide social circle, and am generally well-liked at work (I have worked full-time for the public library for 29 years). I write science fiction & fantasy (I have 11 books currently in print) and do a monthly book review column for the nation's leading science fiction magazine. I've traveled all across the country and outside it, and basically have a very enjoyable life. I don't consider my life "limited" and I don't think any objective observer would, either.

Yes, training in social skills (had such been available 40 years ago) would probably have made my awkward adolescent and teen years go a bit more smoothly…but whose adolescent and teen years did go smoothly?

]]> By: Jeffrey Deutsch http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/11/20/stop-thinking-youll-get-by-on-your-high-iq/comment-page-2/#comment-212716 Jeffrey Deutsch Mon, 26 Oct 2009 21:45:45 +0000 http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/11/20/stop-thinking-youll-get-by-on-your-high-iq/#comment-212716 Hello Gifted Girl, I completely agree with you that IQ is important. And I think Ms. Trunk agrees with us too. Her point is that IQ may be necessary but it is not sufficient. People would rather work with a likable dunderhead than a brilliant boor...and these days, people don't even need to make that choice all the time. Even where brilliance overshadows boorishness, there are plenty of brilliant <b>and</b> likable people running around. We need to be likable too. What do you think? Jeff Deutsch Hello Gifted Girl,

I completely agree with you that IQ is important. And I think Ms. Trunk agrees with us too.

Her point is that IQ may be necessary but it is not sufficient. People would rather work with a likable dunderhead than a brilliant boor…and these days, people don't even need to make that choice all the time. Even where brilliance overshadows boorishness, there are plenty of brilliant and likable people running around. We need to be likable too.

What do you think?

Jeff Deutsch

]]> By: Gifted Girl http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/11/20/stop-thinking-youll-get-by-on-your-high-iq/comment-page-2/#comment-205199 Gifted Girl Thu, 01 Oct 2009 08:11:45 +0000 http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/11/20/stop-thinking-youll-get-by-on-your-high-iq/#comment-205199 I think your post has an important message, but to be honest us high IQ types are already well aware that other people really value social skills- we've been told a million times already! What I don't understand is why your article seems to assume that high IQ and good social skills are mutually exclusive. I know you talked about the autism spectrum, but that is an extreme and not really representative of high IQ people in general. Instead right now it seems like the trend is towards EQ/social skills/street smarts, with the result that people just enjoy bashing IQ/academic skills/book smarts. In reality the most successful people need a measure of both- not really rocket science is it? I think your post has an important message, but to be honest us high IQ types are already well aware that other people really value social skills- we've been told a million times already! What I don't understand is why your article seems to assume that high IQ and good social skills are mutually exclusive. I know you talked about the autism spectrum, but that is an extreme and not really representative of high IQ people in general. Instead right now it seems like the trend is towards EQ/social skills/street smarts, with the result that people just enjoy bashing IQ/academic skills/book smarts. In reality the most successful people need a measure of both- not really rocket science is it?

]]> By: Jeffrey Deutsch http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/11/20/stop-thinking-youll-get-by-on-your-high-iq/comment-page-2/#comment-203587 Jeffrey Deutsch Sat, 26 Sep 2009 17:27:53 +0000 http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/11/20/stop-thinking-youll-get-by-on-your-high-iq/#comment-203587 Hello Steve, First off, congratulations on taking the important step of therapy. And I wish you good luck with your dating. I'm an Aspie life coach who helps fellow Aspies (and NTs who deal with us), and I know what you're talking about. Let's switch the analogy a little bit. It's not a toothache, it's cardiac pain that masquerades as indigestion. You know <b>something's</b> wrong, but you don't know what. Since you just don't see what's going on - subtle cues that aren't verbalized and even when they are, are phrased subtlely and euphemistically - you don't even know that's where the problem may lie. And it can become a vicious cycle: as you become isolated from people, you miss out on the osmosis-like introductions most of us get to social life and unwritten social codes. Then as you emulate the proverbial bull in a china shop, people further pull back from you. They figure you have a bad attitude, not that you just lack certain knowledge. That can become a self-fulfilling prophecy. It can also throw you off the track of where to look to solve your problems. And being human, you don't instinctively look in the mirror for the cause and the solution. You're ostracized, and like most humans you deny it, rationalize it, blame anyone and everyone but yourself. Three things I reinforce to my clients: <b>If you keep doing what you've always done, you'll keep getting what you've always gotten. <i>You</i> are the only person whose behavior you can control. If it were easy, everyone would be doing it - including you already.</b> If you don't like what's going on, you need to find out what you can do to change yourself and change your life. And then you need to do some hard work and learn some not necessarily pleasant things about yourself. Please feel free to drop me a line anytime, Steve. My fingers are crossed for you. Jeff Deutsch Hello Steve,

First off, congratulations on taking the important step of therapy. And I wish you good luck with your dating.

I'm an Aspie life coach who helps fellow Aspies (and NTs who deal with us), and I know what you're talking about.

Let's switch the analogy a little bit. It's not a toothache, it's cardiac pain that masquerades as indigestion. You know something's wrong, but you don't know what.

Since you just don't see what's going on – subtle cues that aren't verbalized and even when they are, are phrased subtlely and euphemistically – you don't even know that's where the problem may lie.

And it can become a vicious cycle: as you become isolated from people, you miss out on the osmosis-like introductions most of us get to social life and unwritten social codes. Then as you emulate the proverbial bull in a china shop, people further pull back from you. They figure you have a bad attitude, not that you just lack certain knowledge. That can become a self-fulfilling prophecy. It can also throw you off the track of where to look to solve your problems.

And being human, you don't instinctively look in the mirror for the cause and the solution. You're ostracized, and like most humans you deny it, rationalize it, blame anyone and everyone but yourself.

Three things I reinforce to my clients:

If you keep doing what you've always done, you'll keep getting what you've always gotten.

You are the only person whose behavior you can control.

If it were easy, everyone would be doing it – including you already.

If you don't like what's going on, you need to find out what you can do to change yourself and change your life. And then you need to do some hard work and learn some not necessarily pleasant things about yourself.

Please feel free to drop me a line anytime, Steve. My fingers are crossed for you.

Jeff Deutsch

]]> By: Steve http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/11/20/stop-thinking-youll-get-by-on-your-high-iq/comment-page-2/#comment-203383 Steve Sat, 26 Sep 2009 02:27:22 +0000 http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/11/20/stop-thinking-youll-get-by-on-your-high-iq/#comment-203383 As a person with limited social skills, I think you are wrong about not knowing about your shortcomings socially. I am not oblivious to being ostracized; it greatly pained me. But, I didn't know how to address the issue. Often I would just try to ignore it or try to accept that it is my basic personality. Despite going to a therapist and dating, I am still at a loss about what I can do differently. I have compassion and empathy for others, but it is not often reflected in my personal or work lives. As a person with limited social skills, I think you are wrong about not knowing about your shortcomings socially. I am not oblivious to being ostracized; it greatly pained me. But, I didn't know how to address the issue. Often I would just try to ignore it or try to accept that it is my basic personality. Despite going to a therapist and dating, I am still at a loss about what I can do differently. I have compassion and empathy for others, but it is not often reflected in my personal or work lives.

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