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	<title>Comments on: Are MBAs becoming obsolete?</title>
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	<link>http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/10/04/yahoo-column-are-mbas-becoming-obsolete/</link>
	<description>Advice at the intersection of work and life</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 09 Feb 2012 10:30:57 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Dennis</title>
		<link>http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/10/04/yahoo-column-are-mbas-becoming-obsolete/comment-page-1/#comment-268753</link>
		<dc:creator>Dennis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Jan 2012 16:57:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/10/04/yahoo-column-are-mbas-becoming-obsolete/#comment-268753</guid>
		<description>I am a bit late on commenting on this subject, but like most things in life things change over time.  I just finished up my MBA in May of 2011 and I viewed my MBA as a business certification, just like the hundreds of other certifications that one can obtain (PMP, Microsoft, etc...).  Like with most certifications, one usually has experienced the qualifications first hand (ie. done the work) and the certification is just another way to verify that the past work was completed.  I do have to admit that I did learn a few things from doing my MBA, mostly rounding out my knowledge on a few subjects and introducing me to a few new subject, but about 80% of the MBA work I had already experienced in my last 10 years of work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am a bit late on commenting on this subject, but like most things in life things change over time.  I just finished up my MBA in May of 2011 and I viewed my MBA as a business certification, just like the hundreds of other certifications that one can obtain (PMP, Microsoft, etc&#8230;).  Like with most certifications, one usually has experienced the qualifications first hand (ie. done the work) and the certification is just another way to verify that the past work was completed.  I do have to admit that I did learn a few things from doing my MBA, mostly rounding out my knowledge on a few subjects and introducing me to a few new subject, but about 80% of the MBA work I had already experienced in my last 10 years of work.</p>
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		<title>By: Is the MBA Worth it? Part 1 &#124; Ron&#039;s Blog: Musings of an MBA program director</title>
		<link>http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/10/04/yahoo-column-are-mbas-becoming-obsolete/comment-page-1/#comment-260833</link>
		<dc:creator>Is the MBA Worth it? Part 1 &#124; Ron&#039;s Blog: Musings of an MBA program director</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Sep 2011 17:38:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/10/04/yahoo-column-are-mbas-becoming-obsolete/#comment-260833</guid>
		<description>[...] Trunk gives an opposing viewpoint. However, I urge you to read the 50+ comments to her blog where many readers express their [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Trunk gives an opposing viewpoint. However, I urge you to read the 50+ comments to her blog where many readers express their [...]</p>
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		<title>By: MBAs and Maslow’s Hammer &#124; MBA Balance</title>
		<link>http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/10/04/yahoo-column-are-mbas-becoming-obsolete/comment-page-1/#comment-258965</link>
		<dc:creator>MBAs and Maslow’s Hammer &#124; MBA Balance</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Aug 2011 16:54:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/10/04/yahoo-column-are-mbas-becoming-obsolete/#comment-258965</guid>
		<description>[...] Abraham Maslow once said, “if you only have a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.” Many MBAs and other business executives need to stop seeing everything around them as a business case for which the end goal is to maximize shareholder value. They also need to stop limiting their potential to impact the world simply in business terms just because society expects them to, given their hotshot MBA degree. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Abraham Maslow once said, “if you only have a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.” Many MBAs and other business executives need to stop seeing everything around them as a business case for which the end goal is to maximize shareholder value. They also need to stop limiting their potential to impact the world simply in business terms just because society expects them to, given their hotshot MBA degree. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: My Do-It-Yourself MBA &#124; Gears and Shifts</title>
		<link>http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/10/04/yahoo-column-are-mbas-becoming-obsolete/comment-page-1/#comment-248889</link>
		<dc:creator>My Do-It-Yourself MBA &#124; Gears and Shifts</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Apr 2011 03:43:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/10/04/yahoo-column-are-mbas-becoming-obsolete/#comment-248889</guid>
		<description>[...] university&#8217;s seal of approval, and it&#8217;s still worth real money in the marketplace&#8211;despite  naysayers. Knowledge and connections are equally important, and business school is a good place to get [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] university&#039;s seal of approval, and it&#039;s still worth real money in the marketplace&#8211;despite  naysayers. Knowledge and connections are equally important, and business school is a good place to get [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Ed</title>
		<link>http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/10/04/yahoo-column-are-mbas-becoming-obsolete/comment-page-1/#comment-242464</link>
		<dc:creator>Ed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Feb 2011 17:44:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/10/04/yahoo-column-are-mbas-becoming-obsolete/#comment-242464</guid>
		<description>My apology, a typo: &quot;prosper&quot; not proper.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My apology, a typo: &#034;prosper&#034; not proper.</p>
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		<title>By: Ed</title>
		<link>http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/10/04/yahoo-column-are-mbas-becoming-obsolete/comment-page-1/#comment-242463</link>
		<dc:creator>Ed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Feb 2011 17:37:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/10/04/yahoo-column-are-mbas-becoming-obsolete/#comment-242463</guid>
		<description>Just based on what I read. I disagree, even though, you may not get the job or status you unduly desire it is for you&#039;re benefit not for anyone else. You achieved something and it is not an entitlement. You represent or embody academic success and didactic aptitude in your field (job).  Charles Darwin&#039;s theory still applies to you and everyone else.  Just be glad you are given the opportunity to proper and educate yourselves.  Other countries are learning very quickly when given the opportunity.  In the 1980&#039;s, President Ronald Reagan initiated many plans and one of them was that United States will implement plans to steer the US workforce into management (next step up from labor intense workforce).  We are doing that globally and eventually enjoy the fruits of our labor but based on this column we would be taking a backseat to the rest of the world.  Let us antithesis and synthesis our endeavors to create a verdant and meaningful life.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just based on what I read. I disagree, even though, you may not get the job or status you unduly desire it is for you&#039;re benefit not for anyone else. You achieved something and it is not an entitlement. You represent or embody academic success and didactic aptitude in your field (job).  Charles Darwin&#039;s theory still applies to you and everyone else.  Just be glad you are given the opportunity to proper and educate yourselves.  Other countries are learning very quickly when given the opportunity.  In the 1980&#039;s, President Ronald Reagan initiated many plans and one of them was that United States will implement plans to steer the US workforce into management (next step up from labor intense workforce).  We are doing that globally and eventually enjoy the fruits of our labor but based on this column we would be taking a backseat to the rest of the world.  Let us antithesis and synthesis our endeavors to create a verdant and meaningful life.</p>
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		<title>By: ThePowerpointMonkey</title>
		<link>http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/10/04/yahoo-column-are-mbas-becoming-obsolete/comment-page-1/#comment-231509</link>
		<dc:creator>ThePowerpointMonkey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Sep 2010 22:51:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/10/04/yahoo-column-are-mbas-becoming-obsolete/#comment-231509</guid>
		<description>&quot;Hotshots don&#039;t go to business school anymore.&quot;
Penelope repeats a well worn argument which is almost exclusively cited by those who don&#039;t have an MBA. The specious line of argument goes that famous entrepreneurial success stories like Bill Gates and Steve Jobs became billionaires without an MBA degree. A more recent phenomena she cites in the most is that certain lucky folks have been able to advance into post-MBA positions in finance e.g. investment banking, hedge funds, etc. without having the MBA. Because certain folks have been able to attain riches without the degree, the MBA is therefore worthless, or have little value.

Bill Gates and Steve Jobs didn&#039;t finish college either. Does that make the college degree obsolete? The obvious fact is that they are brilliant (Bill Gates dropped out of Harvard) and are the exceptions and not the rule. And you can&#039;t sensibly manage your career planning on being the exception.

The fact is, all else being equal, and MBA from a TOP SCHOOL, is going to be offered more opportunities than an MBA from a no name school or someone without an MBA at all. If you need been able to be extremely successful in a business career, early in your career, without the degree more power to you. But recognize these folks are lucky outliers.

&quot;People go to business school for the wrong reasons... if you&#039;re not a star performer before you graduate you won&#039;t be afterwards&quot;

There is some truth to this. The M in MBA does not stand for magic. However, the degree, assuming it is from a top school, gives the holder access to higher level opportunities than they would have otherwise. And as Malcolm Gladwell explains in Outliers, much of achieving success in life is a function of simply being given the opportunity. To deny that an MBA does not confer greater opportunities on the degree holder is to deny reality.

Here&#039;s some reasonable advice. One needs to examine the return on investment that the degree would bring to you. Return on investment can be compare what you are currently making against what what you expect to make coming out of the MBA program. In order to get the latter figure, you can take a look at the placement statistics of the school you are admitted into. Reputable schools have extensive placement statistics, but fly by night programs most do not.  This differential must be forecast over the course of your career. These future benefit dollars need to be discounted to present using a discount factor to account for the risk in these cash flows materializing. The benefit, is today&#039;s dollars need&#039;s to be compared against the costs of attending the program, including foregone salary. If the benefit is larger than the cost, get the degree. If not, don&#039;t. If you are one of the lucky investment banking analysis promoted into the post-MBA position, or already in a senior management position, the costs will outweigh the benefits. For most of the rest of the 25-30 year olds in business or technical careers, the benefits will likely outweigh the costs. But the fact is you need to do the math. Incidentally, this an approach to making decisions you will learn in business school.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#034;Hotshots don&#039;t go to business school anymore.&#034;<br />
Penelope repeats a well worn argument which is almost exclusively cited by those who don&#039;t have an MBA. The specious line of argument goes that famous entrepreneurial success stories like Bill Gates and Steve Jobs became billionaires without an MBA degree. A more recent phenomena she cites in the most is that certain lucky folks have been able to advance into post-MBA positions in finance e.g. investment banking, hedge funds, etc. without having the MBA. Because certain folks have been able to attain riches without the degree, the MBA is therefore worthless, or have little value.</p>
<p>Bill Gates and Steve Jobs didn&#039;t finish college either. Does that make the college degree obsolete? The obvious fact is that they are brilliant (Bill Gates dropped out of Harvard) and are the exceptions and not the rule. And you can&#039;t sensibly manage your career planning on being the exception.</p>
<p>The fact is, all else being equal, and MBA from a TOP SCHOOL, is going to be offered more opportunities than an MBA from a no name school or someone without an MBA at all. If you need been able to be extremely successful in a business career, early in your career, without the degree more power to you. But recognize these folks are lucky outliers.</p>
<p>&#034;People go to business school for the wrong reasons&#8230; if you&#039;re not a star performer before you graduate you won&#039;t be afterwards&#034;</p>
<p>There is some truth to this. The M in MBA does not stand for magic. However, the degree, assuming it is from a top school, gives the holder access to higher level opportunities than they would have otherwise. And as Malcolm Gladwell explains in Outliers, much of achieving success in life is a function of simply being given the opportunity. To deny that an MBA does not confer greater opportunities on the degree holder is to deny reality.</p>
<p>Here&#039;s some reasonable advice. One needs to examine the return on investment that the degree would bring to you. Return on investment can be compare what you are currently making against what what you expect to make coming out of the MBA program. In order to get the latter figure, you can take a look at the placement statistics of the school you are admitted into. Reputable schools have extensive placement statistics, but fly by night programs most do not.  This differential must be forecast over the course of your career. These future benefit dollars need to be discounted to present using a discount factor to account for the risk in these cash flows materializing. The benefit, is today&#039;s dollars need&#039;s to be compared against the costs of attending the program, including foregone salary. If the benefit is larger than the cost, get the degree. If not, don&#039;t. If you are one of the lucky investment banking analysis promoted into the post-MBA position, or already in a senior management position, the costs will outweigh the benefits. For most of the rest of the 25-30 year olds in business or technical careers, the benefits will likely outweigh the costs. But the fact is you need to do the math. Incidentally, this an approach to making decisions you will learn in business school.</p>
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		<title>By: Rishona</title>
		<link>http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/10/04/yahoo-column-are-mbas-becoming-obsolete/comment-page-1/#comment-227422</link>
		<dc:creator>Rishona</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 May 2010 17:56:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/10/04/yahoo-column-are-mbas-becoming-obsolete/#comment-227422</guid>
		<description>I think that the stereotypical definition and expectations of an MBA degree are what is becoming obsolete; not the degree itself. As it stands right now, MBA programs are a dime a dozen. They have one for every kind of professional background; even the gross underachievers. There are schools out there that will award an MBA to graduates who couldn&#039;t produce or interpret a corporate annual report to save their life. This is a far cry from being on the fast-track to the top of the corporate food chain!

I say this as a current MBA student by the way. I have a BA degree in liberal arts, and I do not work in a professional capacity (I am an administrative assistant). Many people out there would say I am foolish for spending money on an MBA. However I feel that my return on my investment will be worth it. I am in an AACSB accredited program paying in-state tuition; so my entire program will be less than $17,000. In addition, although my Bachelor&#039;s degree was in liberal studies, I have work experience as a bookkeeper, an assistant to a CPA and an attorney, and an insurance professional. I feel that the &#039;MBA&#039; on my resume will help potential employers feel more comfortable with my skills as a business professional than my work experience and liberal arts degree can on their own.

But most importantly, I am looking towards the MBA program to challenge me and help me gain or hone my professional skills. I am a little less than halfway through my program, but I already have had valuable experiences and exposures to areas of business that I have not previously encountered, or knew very little about (i.e. management information systems). I actually emerged from that course with a new awareness and fluency in these areas of business operations to the point where I could help the VP with IT with his strategic plan!

Since I am a part-time, distance-learning student, I admit, I am missing out on the valuable &#039;MBA professional network&#039; a bit. However at the end of the day, the classes that I am taking to earn my MBA are enhancing my professional skills. Skills that I am responsible for maintaining and promoting to future hiring managers. Can you get these skills and experiences outside of the MBA program? Absolutely. Is the MBA network a bit overrated? I do tend to think so. Even some of the graduates of Harvard&#039;s Business School are graduating without job offers. They probably invested $100K+ in their degrees. Me, much less. Therefore any gains from my MBA will be felt much more.

To revisit what I said in my 1st paragraph, it is sad to see the quality of MBA programs running the gamut. It cheapens the entire term &#039;MBA&#039;. A sharp graduate from a quality MBA program is an asset to any company. However the quality programs are in the minority. MBAs have to be very conscious of the perceived value of their degrees; and stay focused on marketing themselves holistically, and not just by their MBA.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that the stereotypical definition and expectations of an MBA degree are what is becoming obsolete; not the degree itself. As it stands right now, MBA programs are a dime a dozen. They have one for every kind of professional background; even the gross underachievers. There are schools out there that will award an MBA to graduates who couldn&#039;t produce or interpret a corporate annual report to save their life. This is a far cry from being on the fast-track to the top of the corporate food chain!</p>
<p>I say this as a current MBA student by the way. I have a BA degree in liberal arts, and I do not work in a professional capacity (I am an administrative assistant). Many people out there would say I am foolish for spending money on an MBA. However I feel that my return on my investment will be worth it. I am in an AACSB accredited program paying in-state tuition; so my entire program will be less than $17,000. In addition, although my Bachelor&#039;s degree was in liberal studies, I have work experience as a bookkeeper, an assistant to a CPA and an attorney, and an insurance professional. I feel that the &#039;MBA&#039; on my resume will help potential employers feel more comfortable with my skills as a business professional than my work experience and liberal arts degree can on their own.</p>
<p>But most importantly, I am looking towards the MBA program to challenge me and help me gain or hone my professional skills. I am a little less than halfway through my program, but I already have had valuable experiences and exposures to areas of business that I have not previously encountered, or knew very little about (i.e. management information systems). I actually emerged from that course with a new awareness and fluency in these areas of business operations to the point where I could help the VP with IT with his strategic plan!</p>
<p>Since I am a part-time, distance-learning student, I admit, I am missing out on the valuable &#039;MBA professional network&#039; a bit. However at the end of the day, the classes that I am taking to earn my MBA are enhancing my professional skills. Skills that I am responsible for maintaining and promoting to future hiring managers. Can you get these skills and experiences outside of the MBA program? Absolutely. Is the MBA network a bit overrated? I do tend to think so. Even some of the graduates of Harvard&#039;s Business School are graduating without job offers. They probably invested $100K+ in their degrees. Me, much less. Therefore any gains from my MBA will be felt much more.</p>
<p>To revisit what I said in my 1st paragraph, it is sad to see the quality of MBA programs running the gamut. It cheapens the entire term &#039;MBA&#039;. A sharp graduate from a quality MBA program is an asset to any company. However the quality programs are in the minority. MBAs have to be very conscious of the perceived value of their degrees; and stay focused on marketing themselves holistically, and not just by their MBA.</p>
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		<title>By: I guess that&#8217;s it &#8230; &#124; GlobalSpeculation.com</title>
		<link>http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/10/04/yahoo-column-are-mbas-becoming-obsolete/comment-page-1/#comment-227226</link>
		<dc:creator>I guess that&#8217;s it &#8230; &#124; GlobalSpeculation.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Apr 2010 23:08:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/10/04/yahoo-column-are-mbas-becoming-obsolete/#comment-227226</guid>
		<description>[...] http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/10/04/yahoo-column-are-mbas-becoming-obsolete/ [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] <a href="http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/10/04/yahoo-column-are-mbas-becoming-obsolete/" rel="nofollow">http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/10/04/yahoo-column-are-mbas-becoming-obsolete/</a> [...]</p>
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		<title>By: To MBA or Not MBA &#171; Nichardin&#8217;s Weblog</title>
		<link>http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/10/04/yahoo-column-are-mbas-becoming-obsolete/comment-page-1/#comment-172958</link>
		<dc:creator>To MBA or Not MBA &#171; Nichardin&#8217;s Weblog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Nov 2008 16:35:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/10/04/yahoo-column-are-mbas-becoming-obsolete/#comment-172958</guid>
		<description>[...] found this article and I thought she was spot on regarding MBAs.  (My disclaimer: I find Penelope wildly off the mark [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] found this article and I thought she was spot on regarding MBAs.  (My disclaimer: I find Penelope wildly off the mark [...]</p>
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