Comments on: Interview with Sallie Krawcheck, CEO of Citigroup’s Global Wealth Management http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/09/21/interview-with-sallie-krawcheck-ceo-of-citigroup%e2%80%99s-global-wealth-management/ Advice at the intersection of work and life Sun, 20 Jul 2008 10:55:11 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.3 By: The hardest part of my job is that everyone lies about parenting » Brazen Careerist by Penelope Trunk http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/09/21/interview-with-sallie-krawcheck-ceo-of-citigroup%e2%80%99s-global-wealth-management/#comment-148686 The hardest part of my job is that everyone lies about parenting » Brazen Careerist by Penelope Trunk Tue, 10 Jun 2008 15:02:04 +0000 http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/09/21/interview-with-sallie-krawcheck-ceo-of-citigroup%e2%80%99s-global-wealth-management/#comment-148686 [...] rather be at work than with their kids, because work is easier than parenting. (Notable exception: Sally Krawcheck.) If I have to read about how much someone loves their kids one more time, I’m gonna puke. [...] […] rather be at work than with their kids, because work is easier than parenting. (Notable exception: Sally Krawcheck.) If I have to read about how much someone loves their kids one more time, I’m gonna puke. […]

]]> By: Lisa http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/09/21/interview-with-sallie-krawcheck-ceo-of-citigroup%e2%80%99s-global-wealth-management/#comment-137286 Lisa Fri, 07 Mar 2008 16:42:34 +0000 http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/09/21/interview-with-sallie-krawcheck-ceo-of-citigroup%e2%80%99s-global-wealth-management/#comment-137286 Sallie told my entire class of Associates (200+) at Citi that she was a terrible wife and mother but very good at her job. She said to stay at Citi, we had to recognize that we were making a sacrifice and the sacrifice could not be work. Honest, but not someone I admire. Sallie told my entire class of Associates (200+) at Citi that she was a terrible wife and mother but very good at her job. She said to stay at Citi, we had to recognize that we were making a sacrifice and the sacrifice could not be work. Honest, but not someone I admire.

]]> By: Caitlin http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/09/21/interview-with-sallie-krawcheck-ceo-of-citigroup%e2%80%99s-global-wealth-management/#comment-110005 Caitlin Wed, 24 Oct 2007 21:43:08 +0000 http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/09/21/interview-with-sallie-krawcheck-ceo-of-citigroup%e2%80%99s-global-wealth-management/#comment-110005 Jayson, the poster above you was not actually saying that women didn't succeed because they were tired. It was Sallie Krawcheck who said that and the poster was actually mocking that statement. No one is denying that you work hard but if the housework is so easy, why aren't you doing half of it on top of your full time work? Your mother did all of it on top of her full time work so it should be a cinch for you to do half of it! ;-) But really, every job and every couple and every family is different. It's a matter of works for the individuals. In some families it might be appropriate for one person to do all of the housework, in other families not. But no, I don't believe that stay-at-home parents do the equivalent work of a $134,000 job either. But then there are plenty of million dollar executives who don't deserve their remuneration either. It's not always about how hard you work, unfortunately. Jayson, the poster above you was not actually saying that women didn’t succeed because they were tired. It was Sallie Krawcheck who said that and the poster was actually mocking that statement.

No one is denying that you work hard but if the housework is so easy, why aren’t you doing half of it on top of your full time work? Your mother did all of it on top of her full time work so it should be a cinch for you to do half of it! ;-)

But really, every job and every couple and every family is different. It’s a matter of works for the individuals. In some families it might be appropriate for one person to do all of the housework, in other families not.

But no, I don’t believe that stay-at-home parents do the equivalent work of a $134,000 job either. But then there are plenty of million dollar executives who don’t deserve their remuneration either. It’s not always about how hard you work, unfortunately.

]]> By: Marg http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/09/21/interview-with-sallie-krawcheck-ceo-of-citigroup%e2%80%99s-global-wealth-management/#comment-108956 Marg Sun, 30 Sep 2007 02:25:07 +0000 http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/09/21/interview-with-sallie-krawcheck-ceo-of-citigroup%e2%80%99s-global-wealth-management/#comment-108956 I am facing work and home as a single unit. My adult children (son lives away) and my support group has dwindled. When the company is in OT(not a 'green frienldy employee company who understands the need for family and self time), there's comflict. You bite the bullet, keep yourself looking petty, relaxed, cuddle with your boy friend/husband/other when you find the time. Exercise, rest, and eating good healthy food helps and a blog or sound off board. nothing wrong with a little blush or lip color to make you feel beter, especially if you have good skin and take care. Nothing wrong with smelling good either! Some people are just lucky finding and succeeding in a job that is a 'right fit'. I work and often the company is not satisfied--they want more. I am facing work and home as a single unit. My adult children (son lives away) and my support group has dwindled. When the company is in OT(not a ‘green frienldy employee company who understands the need for family and self time), there’s comflict. You bite the bullet, keep yourself looking petty, relaxed, cuddle with your boy friend/husband/other when you find the time. Exercise, rest, and eating good healthy food helps and a blog or sound off board. nothing wrong with a little blush or lip color to make you feel beter, especially if you have good skin and take care. Nothing wrong with smelling good either!

Some people are just lucky finding and succeeding in a job that is a ‘right fit’. I work and often the company is not satisfied–they want more.

]]> By: Tim http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/09/21/interview-with-sallie-krawcheck-ceo-of-citigroup%e2%80%99s-global-wealth-management/#comment-108933 Tim Fri, 28 Sep 2007 16:26:11 +0000 http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/09/21/interview-with-sallie-krawcheck-ceo-of-citigroup%e2%80%99s-global-wealth-management/#comment-108933 I don't think good parenting is when a parent smothers a child with attention. That's silly. I think it's very healthy for children to see happy parents. And if they're working full-time and happy in their careers, even better. However, when parents demonstrate--I mean, come on, children aren't stupid--that careers are more important than parenting, it is an issue. You raise your children, you don't outsource the job. Outsourcing parenting, what will we think of next? Of course the parents don't have to be related biologically--that's obvious. However, you can't tell me a child would be fine with the love and attention of their nanny over their mom and dad. Seriously, all things being equal, kids do better with a mom and dad. That's all I'm saying. I don’t think good parenting is when a parent smothers a child with attention. That’s silly.

I think it’s very healthy for children to see happy parents. And if they’re working full-time and happy in their careers, even better.

However, when parents demonstrate–I mean, come on, children aren’t stupid–that careers are more important than parenting, it is an issue. You raise your children, you don’t outsource the job.
Outsourcing parenting, what will we think of next?

Of course the parents don’t have to be related biologically–that’s obvious.

However, you can’t tell me a child would be fine with the love and attention of their nanny over their mom and dad.

Seriously, all things being equal, kids do better with a mom and dad. That’s all I’m saying.

]]> By: dk http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/09/21/interview-with-sallie-krawcheck-ceo-of-citigroup%e2%80%99s-global-wealth-management/#comment-108893 dk Fri, 28 Sep 2007 08:40:39 +0000 http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/09/21/interview-with-sallie-krawcheck-ceo-of-citigroup%e2%80%99s-global-wealth-management/#comment-108893 When I wrote you cannot have it all, I actually did not mean you cannot have a career and kids. More like you cannot be Supermom and SuperCEO. When I was a small child my mom worked. I can still remember, very fondly, my daycare centers. It was so much fun. I am an only child. And there were people to play. We did crafty stuff, I could never have done at home. There was tons of colored paper, pens, games and so on. And in the evening I would tell my mother about my "work day". And I was happy. Later my mom stopped working and this was not a good idea. Frustrated, bored moms are much worse than happy working ones, even if my mom gave her best. And all this mom must stay home stuff is something we developed in the last 200 years. My grandfather saw his mother maybe 5 minutes every other day and his dad when he did something bad. He and his brothers were cared for by a nanny.He was happy never the less. My other grandfather probably never saw his parents either, because they were working on the fields all day and from an early age he had to help. Children don't need biological parents. They need security and the feeling to be loved and cherished by someone. I was loved by my mother, I knew that, she did not need to demonstrate that to me 24h. I was loved by my father too, even if he is this hazy presence in my childhood, because he worked long hours, but still I was daddy's little girl. When he was there, he was there. This was enough. Kids get raised by grandparents, adoptive parents and new parents, because of divorce, this is not the end of civilization. I pity all the children, who are the sole attention of their mother, on a guilt trip to do everything right and suffocate the child's independence with 24h care. The best parent is a happy parent. When I wrote you cannot have it all, I actually did not mean you cannot have a career and kids. More like you cannot be Supermom and SuperCEO. When I was a small child my mom worked. I can still remember, very fondly, my daycare centers. It was so much fun. I am an only child. And there were people to play. We did crafty stuff, I could never have done at home. There was tons of colored paper, pens, games and so on. And in the evening I would tell my mother about my “work day”. And I was happy. Later my mom stopped working and this was not a good idea. Frustrated, bored moms are much worse than happy working ones, even if my mom gave her best. And all this mom must stay home stuff is something we developed in the last 200 years. My grandfather saw his mother maybe 5 minutes every other day and his dad when he did something bad. He and his brothers were cared for by a nanny.He was happy never the less. My other grandfather probably never saw his parents either, because they were working on the fields all day and from an early age he had to help.
Children don’t need biological parents. They need security and the feeling to be loved and cherished by someone. I was loved by my mother, I knew that, she did not need to demonstrate that to me 24h. I was loved by my father too, even if he is this hazy presence in my childhood, because he worked long hours, but still I was daddy’s little girl. When he was there, he was there. This was enough. Kids get raised by grandparents, adoptive parents and new parents, because of divorce, this is not the end of civilization. I pity all the children, who are the sole attention of their mother, on a guilt trip to do everything right and suffocate the child’s independence with 24h care. The best parent is a happy parent.

]]> By: Tim http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/09/21/interview-with-sallie-krawcheck-ceo-of-citigroup%e2%80%99s-global-wealth-management/#comment-108865 Tim Thu, 27 Sep 2007 19:14:11 +0000 http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/09/21/interview-with-sallie-krawcheck-ceo-of-citigroup%e2%80%99s-global-wealth-management/#comment-108865 SacHickey, "Focused attention" is not parenting. Being there for your kids is. Scheduling your parenting time is such a ridiculous concept--It's truly funny, but in a very sad way. "Quality Time" is a line with no substance and most use it to relieve them from their feelings of guilt. And, no, the nanny is not a parent. Let's say it again: You can't have it all. You can't. You have to sacrifice something. It's a choice. What does one value more? SacHickey,

“Focused attention” is not parenting. Being there for your kids is.
Scheduling your parenting time is such a ridiculous concept–It’s truly funny, but in a very sad way.

“Quality Time” is a line with no substance and most use it to relieve them from their feelings of guilt. And, no, the nanny is not a parent.

Let’s say it again: You can’t have it all. You can’t. You have to sacrifice something. It’s a choice. What does one value more?

]]> By: Achievement and inane statements « La Vie Quotidienne http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/09/21/interview-with-sallie-krawcheck-ceo-of-citigroup%e2%80%99s-global-wealth-management/#comment-108847 Achievement and inane statements « La Vie Quotidienne Thu, 27 Sep 2007 11:04:27 +0000 http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/09/21/interview-with-sallie-krawcheck-ceo-of-citigroup%e2%80%99s-global-wealth-management/#comment-108847 [...] Krish writes today about career women, well, one in particular. I noted it especially soon after this post by Penelope, and the fiery comments that have followed that [...] […] Krish writes today about career women, well, one in particular. I noted it especially soon after this post by Penelope, and the fiery comments that have followed that […]

]]> By: SacHickey http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/09/21/interview-with-sallie-krawcheck-ceo-of-citigroup%e2%80%99s-global-wealth-management/#comment-108842 SacHickey Thu, 27 Sep 2007 09:33:07 +0000 http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/09/21/interview-with-sallie-krawcheck-ceo-of-citigroup%e2%80%99s-global-wealth-management/#comment-108842 My sister is a top lawyer in a major metro, PhD from a top school, blah blah. Her husband also has a high-profile career. Her husband is the primary parent - it's easier for men to take time off for the kids and shift their schedules without being labeled as "parents" and having their careers downgraded. And they have a nanny. I think it's worked extremely well for the kids; mom and dad give the kids more focused attention than the non-career parents I know, and the nanny (earning more than many professionals in the area, because sis and BIL think *that* salary must be poverty level) gives the kids tons of love and very focused attention. The kids get 3 parents, and the nanny, honestly, is warmer and more loving than her employers. I shudder to think how the kids would have turned out if they had been raised by their not-very-demonstrative parents without the nanny. I'm not saying this is true for every parent, but I always looked at their arrangement and said (half-jokingly) "I'll have kids when I can afford for someone else to raise them." I'm just not up to spending hours a day being delighted and fascinated by scribbles and Barney and the rest of the dreck. I can muster 15 minutes on a busy (intellectually stimulating) day, maybe 45 minutes on a slow day. I don't have kids, and I have a lot of respect for parents who can find a workable arrangement for having kids AND finding a way to be happy with it. My sister is a top lawyer in a major metro, PhD from a top school, blah blah. Her husband also has a high-profile career. Her husband is the primary parent - it’s easier for men to take time off for the kids and shift their schedules without being labeled as “parents” and having their careers downgraded. And they have a nanny.

I think it’s worked extremely well for the kids; mom and dad give the kids more focused attention than the non-career parents I know, and the nanny (earning more than many professionals in the area, because sis and BIL think *that* salary must be poverty level) gives the kids tons of love and very focused attention. The kids get 3 parents, and the nanny, honestly, is warmer and more loving than her employers.

I shudder to think how the kids would have turned out if they had been raised by their not-very-demonstrative parents without the nanny. I’m not saying this is true for every parent, but I always looked at their arrangement and said (half-jokingly) “I’ll have kids when I can afford for someone else to raise them.” I’m just not up to spending hours a day being delighted and fascinated by scribbles and Barney and the rest of the dreck. I can muster 15 minutes on a busy (intellectually stimulating) day, maybe 45 minutes on a slow day. I don’t have kids, and I have a lot of respect for parents who can find a workable arrangement for having kids AND finding a way to be happy with it.

]]> By: dk http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/09/21/interview-with-sallie-krawcheck-ceo-of-citigroup%e2%80%99s-global-wealth-management/#comment-108747 dk Wed, 26 Sep 2007 11:02:21 +0000 http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/09/21/interview-with-sallie-krawcheck-ceo-of-citigroup%e2%80%99s-global-wealth-management/#comment-108747 After reading the post, I was prepared to write a comment, but after all the comments written, my comment changed. Especially finance girls one brought a new tangent. Actually as women and men today, we are less bound by musts. I live in Europe, but I think even if corporate US seems to be a little bit more rigid, it is the same in essence. You can make a career as woman, even without makeup or all the game play. If you are good and go your way you have a chance to make it. The same as man have. But deep in us is this streak to want to be "normal", to conform. Even my bf who is as emancipated as they come, cannot shake this notion that he has to make a career. It will need more than a generation to overcome such an ingrained behavior. A lot of woman have this with makeup and kids. Men feel uncomfortable if they do not seem to make the effort to earn enough money for their family, it boost their self respect. A lot of woman are uncomfortable to seem not to have made the effort to look good and for many not to have made the effort to be the optimal mom. We have to accept that these tendencies exist. And that these are not fundamental truths anymore. We can break them, if we want and need to. Some women are not good moms, they just aren't, but there are men who are fantastical dads. We can live this, we are one of the first generations of people were stuff like gender or race does not matter this much anymore. Yes boundaries are still there, but they are mostly in our own mind. We just have to find out, how to live with this freedom, without getting lost in possibilities and guilt not to have made the other choice. And no, you cannot have it all. At some point you have to make your choice, but it is yours and not societies anymore. After reading the post, I was prepared to write a comment, but after all the comments written, my comment changed. Especially finance girls one brought a new tangent. Actually as women and men today, we are less bound by musts. I live in Europe, but I think even if corporate US seems to be a little bit more rigid, it is the same in essence. You can make a career as woman, even without makeup or all the game play. If you are good and go your way you have a chance to make it. The same as man have. But deep in us is this streak to want to be “normal”, to conform. Even my bf who is as emancipated as they come, cannot shake this notion that he has to make a career. It will need more than a generation to overcome such an ingrained behavior. A lot of woman have this with makeup and kids. Men feel uncomfortable if they do not seem to make the effort to earn enough money for their family, it boost their self respect. A lot of woman are uncomfortable to seem not to have made the effort to look good and for many not to have made the effort to be the optimal mom. We have to accept that these tendencies exist. And that these are not fundamental truths anymore. We can break them, if we want and need to. Some women are not good moms, they just aren’t, but there are men who are fantastical dads. We can live this, we are one of the first generations of people were stuff like gender or race does not matter this much anymore. Yes boundaries are still there, but they are mostly in our own mind. We just have to find out, how to live with this freedom, without getting lost in possibilities and guilt not to have made the other choice. And no, you cannot have it all. At some point you have to make your choice, but it is yours and not societies anymore.

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