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	<title>Comments on: Yahoo column: The new girls&#039; guide to workplace success</title>
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	<link>http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/08/02/yahoo-column-the-new-girls-guide-to-workplace-success/</link>
	<description>Advice at the intersection of work and life</description>
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		<title>By: Yahoo to Penelope: Pack Your Trunk &#171; Happy Holidays From A Member of the Human Race</title>
		<link>http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/08/02/yahoo-column-the-new-girls-guide-to-workplace-success/comment-page-1/#comment-132701</link>
		<dc:creator>Yahoo to Penelope: Pack Your Trunk &#171; Happy Holidays From A Member of the Human Race</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Dec 2007 00:34:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/08/02/yahoo-column-the-new-girls-guide-to-workplace-success/#comment-132701</guid>
		<description>[...] gets worse than that when she tries to give advice to women navigating their way in the workplace. In an article entitled &#8220;the New Girl&#8217;s Guide to Workplace Success,&#8221; she actually [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] gets worse than that when she tries to give advice to women navigating their way in the workplace. In an article entitled &#034;the New Girl&#039;s Guide to Workplace Success,&#034; she actually [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Modite - 12 reasons why being a woman leader is challenging</title>
		<link>http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/08/02/yahoo-column-the-new-girls-guide-to-workplace-success/comment-page-1/#comment-122114</link>
		<dc:creator>Modite - 12 reasons why being a woman leader is challenging</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Dec 2007 05:06:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/08/02/yahoo-column-the-new-girls-guide-to-workplace-success/#comment-122114</guid>
		<description>[...] 4. You’re told to use your sexuality. But not too much. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] 4. You’re told to use your sexuality. But not too much. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Wisconsinite</title>
		<link>http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/08/02/yahoo-column-the-new-girls-guide-to-workplace-success/comment-page-1/#comment-106052</link>
		<dc:creator>Wisconsinite</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Aug 2007 20:25:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/08/02/yahoo-column-the-new-girls-guide-to-workplace-success/#comment-106052</guid>
		<description>Penelope,

Yahoo!Finance is getting desparate to recycle this article, but I&#039;m afraid that I am correct that you are their Rosie O&#039;Donnell. Well then keep up the good work! Giddyup Girl!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Penelope,</p>
<p>Yahoo!Finance is getting desparate to recycle this article, but I&#039;m afraid that I am correct that you are their Rosie O&#039;Donnell. Well then keep up the good work! Giddyup Girl!</p>
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		<title>By: CyberNorris</title>
		<link>http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/08/02/yahoo-column-the-new-girls-guide-to-workplace-success/comment-page-1/#comment-105901</link>
		<dc:creator>CyberNorris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Aug 2007 20:11:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/08/02/yahoo-column-the-new-girls-guide-to-workplace-success/#comment-105901</guid>
		<description>Penelope shared some good stuff here. I just had a professional project manager tell me she didn&#039;t get promotions until she started blow drying her hair and wearing makeup. You probably won&#039;t get this kind of advice in any MBA program, but it is still valuable. The human element is too important to ignore.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Penelope shared some good stuff here. I just had a professional project manager tell me she didn&#039;t get promotions until she started blow drying her hair and wearing makeup. You probably won&#039;t get this kind of advice in any MBA program, but it is still valuable. The human element is too important to ignore.</p>
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		<title>By: Kathryn</title>
		<link>http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/08/02/yahoo-column-the-new-girls-guide-to-workplace-success/comment-page-1/#comment-105556</link>
		<dc:creator>Kathryn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Aug 2007 08:32:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/08/02/yahoo-column-the-new-girls-guide-to-workplace-success/#comment-105556</guid>
		<description>&quot;Bottom line, I don’t understand why you continue to write articles for Yahoo Finance if you have nothing good to ever say about Yahoo readers…&quot;

There&#039;s a very basic answer for this: Yahoo pays bills and brings in a wider audience.  Writing is Penelope&#039;s &lt;i&gt;job&lt;/I&gt;, not an interesting hobby.  If I could get signed on as an advice columnist, then I&#039;d put up with anonymous insults too.

All jobs have their less savory aspects.  Being a writer involves lots of very public criticisms.  It sucks, especially when your critics have nothing of value to say and resort primarily to personal attacks.  But that doesn&#039;t mean that the author should retreat and effectively quit her job because she doesn&#039;t like her audience.  On the other hand, it&#039;s definitely permissible for the audience to &quot;fire&quot; an author by ignoring her.

Which brings me to a roundabout point that Penelope may not really appreciate me bringing up. (Sorry! Can&#039;t resist!)  Yahoo is not going to fire Penelope for having low reviews.  Yahoo is in the business of attracting eyes; so long as Penelope generates interest, then she&#039;s going to be kept as an employee.  The same goes for her blog.  Websites are labeled as successful or failures based on how many people visit them.  (There are exceptions, but you have to be a true social pariah to merit being dumped despite high page views.)  If you really disagree with Penelope and deeply believe that she should have no authority whatsoever as a role model, then don&#039;t look.  Don&#039;t generate arguments and get people visiting a post several times a day to look at new comments.  Just shake your head quietly and don&#039;t come back.  Because every time you visit here and every time you leave a nasty Yahoo comment, you generate a little more publicity.  And publicity is what keeps the wheels turning.

Brief Digression on Why Comments Are Superior Here: Take a random polling of 100 Yahoo comments and tell me how many of those actually contain constructive input (whether negative or positive).  I&#039;d estimate that 90% of the comments on Yahoo can be summarized as either &quot;Penelope is so right&quot; or &quot;Penelope is so wrong&quot;.  Both are equally useless to someone who wants to open up a dialog.  Good comments directly respond to the piece at hand or to previous comments.  Constructiveness is a function of content density, not polarization.

&lt;I&gt;All true, Kathryn. One more thing. A reason the comments are so good here is that someone would put into their comment a &quot;Brief Digression&quot; section of their comment. Such good writing. I love that. 
--Penelope&lt;/I&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#034;Bottom line, I don’t understand why you continue to write articles for Yahoo Finance if you have nothing good to ever say about Yahoo readers…&#034;</p>
<p>There&#039;s a very basic answer for this: Yahoo pays bills and brings in a wider audience.  Writing is Penelope&#039;s <i>job</i>, not an interesting hobby.  If I could get signed on as an advice columnist, then I&#039;d put up with anonymous insults too.</p>
<p>All jobs have their less savory aspects.  Being a writer involves lots of very public criticisms.  It sucks, especially when your critics have nothing of value to say and resort primarily to personal attacks.  But that doesn&#039;t mean that the author should retreat and effectively quit her job because she doesn&#039;t like her audience.  On the other hand, it&#039;s definitely permissible for the audience to &#034;fire&#034; an author by ignoring her.</p>
<p>Which brings me to a roundabout point that Penelope may not really appreciate me bringing up. (Sorry! Can&#039;t resist!)  Yahoo is not going to fire Penelope for having low reviews.  Yahoo is in the business of attracting eyes; so long as Penelope generates interest, then she&#039;s going to be kept as an employee.  The same goes for her blog.  Websites are labeled as successful or failures based on how many people visit them.  (There are exceptions, but you have to be a true social pariah to merit being dumped despite high page views.)  If you really disagree with Penelope and deeply believe that she should have no authority whatsoever as a role model, then don&#039;t look.  Don&#039;t generate arguments and get people visiting a post several times a day to look at new comments.  Just shake your head quietly and don&#039;t come back.  Because every time you visit here and every time you leave a nasty Yahoo comment, you generate a little more publicity.  And publicity is what keeps the wheels turning.</p>
<p>Brief Digression on Why Comments Are Superior Here: Take a random polling of 100 Yahoo comments and tell me how many of those actually contain constructive input (whether negative or positive).  I&#039;d estimate that 90% of the comments on Yahoo can be summarized as either &#034;Penelope is so right&#034; or &#034;Penelope is so wrong&#034;.  Both are equally useless to someone who wants to open up a dialog.  Good comments directly respond to the piece at hand or to previous comments.  Constructiveness is a function of content density, not polarization.</p>
<p><i>All true, Kathryn. One more thing. A reason the comments are so good here is that someone would put into their comment a &#034;Brief Digression&#034; section of their comment. Such good writing. I love that.<br />
&#8211;Penelope</i></p>
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		<title>By: Nicole</title>
		<link>http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/08/02/yahoo-column-the-new-girls-guide-to-workplace-success/comment-page-1/#comment-105547</link>
		<dc:creator>Nicole</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Aug 2007 03:12:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/08/02/yahoo-column-the-new-girls-guide-to-workplace-success/#comment-105547</guid>
		<description>I just don&#039;t understand why you keep writing for Yahoo Finance since you do nothing but compare the readers of your blog to the Yahoo readers. You say you prefer the commenters on this blog but yet to continue to work for Yahoo. 

I have to admit, this is the second article I&#039;ve read and so far, I agree with most of the Yahoom readers....many of your tips can get people reprimanded or even fired from normal jobs. I understand that not everyone holds down &quot;normal&quot; jobs, but you are reaching out to a variety of people and I bet most of them work in traditional places.

Maybe if you prefaced your articles with &quot;These are things I hope our professional society will take into consideration for the future.&quot; maybe people would be less inclined to tell you how wrong you are. 

It&#039;s one thing to dream and hope and it&#039;s another to act like this is how bosses and companies are NOW. Most college grads following your advice to the T may be confronting a not so friendly work place once that grad starts implementing your advice.

Bottom line, I don&#039;t understand why you continue to write articles for Yahoo Finance if you have nothing good to ever say about Yahoo readers....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just don&#039;t understand why you keep writing for Yahoo Finance since you do nothing but compare the readers of your blog to the Yahoo readers. You say you prefer the commenters on this blog but yet to continue to work for Yahoo. </p>
<p>I have to admit, this is the second article I&#039;ve read and so far, I agree with most of the Yahoom readers&#8230;.many of your tips can get people reprimanded or even fired from normal jobs. I understand that not everyone holds down &#034;normal&#034; jobs, but you are reaching out to a variety of people and I bet most of them work in traditional places.</p>
<p>Maybe if you prefaced your articles with &#034;These are things I hope our professional society will take into consideration for the future.&#034; maybe people would be less inclined to tell you how wrong you are. </p>
<p>It&#039;s one thing to dream and hope and it&#039;s another to act like this is how bosses and companies are NOW. Most college grads following your advice to the T may be confronting a not so friendly work place once that grad starts implementing your advice.</p>
<p>Bottom line, I don&#039;t understand why you continue to write articles for Yahoo Finance if you have nothing good to ever say about Yahoo readers&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: MarilynJean</title>
		<link>http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/08/02/yahoo-column-the-new-girls-guide-to-workplace-success/comment-page-1/#comment-105508</link>
		<dc:creator>MarilynJean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Aug 2007 16:07:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/08/02/yahoo-column-the-new-girls-guide-to-workplace-success/#comment-105508</guid>
		<description>Good writers write things that get people to agree with them. The best writers write about topics that promote thought, dialogue...and disagreement. That&#039;s a good thing. I want to echo what some people have already said about how Brazen is here not to dictate workplace rules, but to put new ideas out there and encourage the reader to come to their own conclusions.

Attacking the writer and not the material is a sign of ignorance. I appreciate dissenting views when they are presented based on the material itself and not Penelope&#039;s personal history or character. (If you want to question her ability to write an advice column based on her work history, I hope you also question the current President&#039;s ability to lead a country based on his resume. Oh wait, we don&#039;t do that with men, just women.)

I don&#039;t agree with everything Penelope says and I like her blog all the more for that reason.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good writers write things that get people to agree with them. The best writers write about topics that promote thought, dialogue&#8230;and disagreement. That&#039;s a good thing. I want to echo what some people have already said about how Brazen is here not to dictate workplace rules, but to put new ideas out there and encourage the reader to come to their own conclusions.</p>
<p>Attacking the writer and not the material is a sign of ignorance. I appreciate dissenting views when they are presented based on the material itself and not Penelope&#039;s personal history or character. (If you want to question her ability to write an advice column based on her work history, I hope you also question the current President&#039;s ability to lead a country based on his resume. Oh wait, we don&#039;t do that with men, just women.)</p>
<p>I don&#039;t agree with everything Penelope says and I like her blog all the more for that reason.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/08/02/yahoo-column-the-new-girls-guide-to-workplace-success/comment-page-1/#comment-105505</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Aug 2007 15:18:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/08/02/yahoo-column-the-new-girls-guide-to-workplace-success/#comment-105505</guid>
		<description>I like your reply to the comment above from &quot;d&quot; because it illustrates so fundamentally how things are changing today with respect to advice, &quot;expertism&quot; and learning. There is an approach to life--perhaps it is what you keep talking about that millennials do more automatically--that is so much more communal experimentation as a way of learning. You are not the last word. You say things that are controversial. Then other people argue. Together, we learn. I don&#039;t expect to read ANYTHING from ANYONE that is truly authoritative. It&#039;s the dialog and the experience we learn from, not just the initial content.

Remember all those [insert topic] for Dummies books? Absolutely worthless. Imagine how futile a &quot;Facebook for Dummies&quot; book would be. (although I&#039;m sure it&#039;s in the works.) Instead people just try things and see what happens. That&#039;s how you learn. So we don&#039;t expect some great oracle to deliver the perfect advice to us. Instead, we need people who will stir the pot, keep the conversation going, and expose us to ideas we had not considered before.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like your reply to the comment above from &#034;d&#034; because it illustrates so fundamentally how things are changing today with respect to advice, &#034;expertism&#034; and learning. There is an approach to life&#8211;perhaps it is what you keep talking about that millennials do more automatically&#8211;that is so much more communal experimentation as a way of learning. You are not the last word. You say things that are controversial. Then other people argue. Together, we learn. I don&#039;t expect to read ANYTHING from ANYONE that is truly authoritative. It&#039;s the dialog and the experience we learn from, not just the initial content.</p>
<p>Remember all those [insert topic] for Dummies books? Absolutely worthless. Imagine how futile a &#034;Facebook for Dummies&#034; book would be. (although I&#039;m sure it&#039;s in the works.) Instead people just try things and see what happens. That&#039;s how you learn. So we don&#039;t expect some great oracle to deliver the perfect advice to us. Instead, we need people who will stir the pot, keep the conversation going, and expose us to ideas we had not considered before.</p>
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		<title>By: lizzgeorge</title>
		<link>http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/08/02/yahoo-column-the-new-girls-guide-to-workplace-success/comment-page-1/#comment-105480</link>
		<dc:creator>lizzgeorge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Aug 2007 05:00:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/08/02/yahoo-column-the-new-girls-guide-to-workplace-success/#comment-105480</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I am a young female banking professional, and I find this advice very useful, entertaining, and important.  I&#039;ve used variations of all this advice and it has worked very well for me in my career.  I think some people are jumping to extreme conclusions when they consider her points.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;1.  Wardrobe: Think sassy suits and fitted blouses a la the females on TV shows like Boston Legal.  Showing some skin doesn&#039;t mean wearing a mini-skirt or halter top to work.  Nowhere in her article does she advocate straying from a conservative professional attire.  It&#039;s important to look neat, clean, fashionable, and professional in the workplace.  Women today can do this without wearing a formless bulky suit (unlike our mothers).  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;2.  Sexual Harassment: Come on people.  Do you really think P is saying that you should turn a blind eye if you are groped, ogled, threatened, or otherwise seriously harassed?  The fact is that the most common forms of sexual harassment (which has a VERY broad definition) are not serious and may even be unintentional.  Think sexist office jokes, sexist questions or comments on your personal life, and innocent flirtation (if it&#039;s unwanted it&#039;s legally harassment).  These things should be brushed off or playfully but pointedly checked.  If you make a big deal of it, complain to your boss, or otherwise throw a fit, you&#039;ll be labled a bitch/prude and cast out of the office social network.  NOT good for the career.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Work Ethic:  Hello?  No one is saying not to work hard!  She said to RELAX because many women tend to work themselves ragged while overlooking other important things that will advance your career (like getting to know your boss, chatting with peers, bonding with the admins, etc).  Many women spend years holed up in their cubicles while glaring at their male counterparts who seem to always be goofing off, responding to ridiculous group emails, and playing mini-golf in the boss&#039; office (this all happens on a daily basis at my financial firm).  They keep their heads down working feverishly and then wonder why they haven&#039;t been noticed and promoted like those &quot;slacker&quot; males.&lt;/p&gt;

* * * * * * * 
&lt;I&gt;Yes. To all this. Liz, thank you for a great interpretation of the post. 

-Penelope&lt;/i&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am a young female banking professional, and I find this advice very useful, entertaining, and important.  I&#039;ve used variations of all this advice and it has worked very well for me in my career.  I think some people are jumping to extreme conclusions when they consider her points.  </p>
<p>1.  Wardrobe: Think sassy suits and fitted blouses a la the females on TV shows like Boston Legal.  Showing some skin doesn&#039;t mean wearing a mini-skirt or halter top to work.  Nowhere in her article does she advocate straying from a conservative professional attire.  It&#039;s important to look neat, clean, fashionable, and professional in the workplace.  Women today can do this without wearing a formless bulky suit (unlike our mothers).  </p>
<p>2.  Sexual Harassment: Come on people.  Do you really think P is saying that you should turn a blind eye if you are groped, ogled, threatened, or otherwise seriously harassed?  The fact is that the most common forms of sexual harassment (which has a VERY broad definition) are not serious and may even be unintentional.  Think sexist office jokes, sexist questions or comments on your personal life, and innocent flirtation (if it&#039;s unwanted it&#039;s legally harassment).  These things should be brushed off or playfully but pointedly checked.  If you make a big deal of it, complain to your boss, or otherwise throw a fit, you&#039;ll be labled a bitch/prude and cast out of the office social network.  NOT good for the career.</p>
<p>Work Ethic:  Hello?  No one is saying not to work hard!  She said to RELAX because many women tend to work themselves ragged while overlooking other important things that will advance your career (like getting to know your boss, chatting with peers, bonding with the admins, etc).  Many women spend years holed up in their cubicles while glaring at their male counterparts who seem to always be goofing off, responding to ridiculous group emails, and playing mini-golf in the boss&#039; office (this all happens on a daily basis at my financial firm).  They keep their heads down working feverishly and then wonder why they haven&#039;t been noticed and promoted like those &#034;slacker&#034; males.</p>
<p>* * * * * * *<br />
<i>Yes. To all this. Liz, thank you for a great interpretation of the post. </p>
<p>-Penelope</i></p>
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		<title>By: Brian Johnson</title>
		<link>http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/08/02/yahoo-column-the-new-girls-guide-to-workplace-success/comment-page-1/#comment-105478</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Johnson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Aug 2007 04:21:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/08/02/yahoo-column-the-new-girls-guide-to-workplace-success/#comment-105478</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m constantly awestruck by lazy commenters, especially on yahoo, who assume Penelope has no professional accomplishments because they won&#039;t take 90 seconds to read her bio and similarly dismayed by others like &quot;d&quot; that can craft a well-written response but are dismissive about the difficulty and impressiveness of Penelope&#039;s accomplishments. I&#039;ve yet to see her defend her background, which says a lot about both her confidence and lack of ego.

Not that she needs me to defend her, but making a living as a professional athlete is a TREMENDOUS accomplishment.  Founding a company and taking it to IPO is something VERY few people have accomplished.  Becoming a nationally syndicated author with multiple book deals is HIGHLY UNCOMMON.  Each of these requires skills, work ethic, and intelligence that is well beyond avearge and I think it&#039;s a tremendous blessing to hear brutally candid insights from someone with her experiences - even when I disagree with those insights.

Say what you will about her advice, but to dismiss her career as average or meaningless is ignorant.

And I love the simpltetons that rip her business knowledge simply because she decided to move to Madison, WI.  Quick fact: there are more Fortune 500 CEO&#039;s to come out of Madison than any other university in the country.  Harvard is 2nd.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#039;m constantly awestruck by lazy commenters, especially on yahoo, who assume Penelope has no professional accomplishments because they won&#039;t take 90 seconds to read her bio and similarly dismayed by others like &#034;d&#034; that can craft a well-written response but are dismissive about the difficulty and impressiveness of Penelope&#039;s accomplishments. I&#039;ve yet to see her defend her background, which says a lot about both her confidence and lack of ego.</p>
<p>Not that she needs me to defend her, but making a living as a professional athlete is a TREMENDOUS accomplishment.  Founding a company and taking it to IPO is something VERY few people have accomplished.  Becoming a nationally syndicated author with multiple book deals is HIGHLY UNCOMMON.  Each of these requires skills, work ethic, and intelligence that is well beyond avearge and I think it&#039;s a tremendous blessing to hear brutally candid insights from someone with her experiences &#8211; even when I disagree with those insights.</p>
<p>Say what you will about her advice, but to dismiss her career as average or meaningless is ignorant.</p>
<p>And I love the simpltetons that rip her business knowledge simply because she decided to move to Madison, WI.  Quick fact: there are more Fortune 500 CEO&#039;s to come out of Madison than any other university in the country.  Harvard is 2nd.</p>
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