Comments on: A question for the readers http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/06/28/a-question-for-the-readers/ Advice at the intersection of work and life Sat, 20 Mar 2010 23:15:53 -0600 http://wordpress.org/?v=abc hourly 1 By: Negative Comments are for Boomers « Little Red Suit http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/06/28/a-question-for-the-readers/comment-page-3/#comment-116091 Negative Comments are for Boomers « Little Red Suit Mon, 03 Dec 2007 04:29:09 +0000 http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/06/28/a-question-for-the-readers/#comment-116091 [...] 29, 2007 Sort of. I’m responding to Penelope Trunk’s question for her readers about negative comments, in which she asks what we think about abrasive comments people like she [...] [...] 29, 2007 Sort of. I'm responding to Penelope Trunk's question for her readers about negative comments, in which she asks what we think about abrasive comments people like she [...]

]]> By: Jesse Cline http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/06/28/a-question-for-the-readers/comment-page-3/#comment-114523 Jesse Cline Fri, 30 Nov 2007 19:00:26 +0000 http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/06/28/a-question-for-the-readers/#comment-114523 I agree with Jim's comment speaking out against the idea that "My generation is the only important one, and you fogies have to adapt to us." I really feel like this is a false image of Generation Y that has been created by a very vocal, but very minor group of people. As a 26 year old CPA at a big 4 firm, I have not witnessed anything like this. I am really getting sick of people talking about the none-existent millenial movement, and assuming that anyone that doesn't take your word as the gospel must be an old timer and doesn't "get it". I have read your advice column every week for about 7 months. Sometimes you make good points, and other times you advise completely outrageous ideas like doing Yoga on the bathroom floor (downward facing dog no less). I think a lot of the criticism on Yahoo comes from the fact that no one in their right mind would ever do some of the things you advise. This leads many of us to feel you are just saying crazy stuff to draw attention to yourself and get more hits. How can you act surprised if the Trolls come out? Yahoo Finance is a reputable website, and the homepage of millions of professionals. I would appreciate it if you took it a little more seriously. Thanks, Jesse I agree with Jim's comment speaking out against the idea that "My generation is the only important one, and you fogies have to adapt to us." I really feel like this is a false image of Generation Y that has been created by a very vocal, but very minor group of people. As a 26 year old CPA at a big 4 firm, I have not witnessed anything like this. I am really getting sick of people talking about the none-existent millenial movement, and assuming that anyone that doesn't take your word as the gospel must be an old timer and doesn't "get it".

I have read your advice column every week for about 7 months. Sometimes you make good points, and other times you advise completely outrageous ideas like doing Yoga on the bathroom floor (downward facing dog no less). I think a lot of the criticism on Yahoo comes from the fact that no one in their right mind would ever do some of the things you advise. This leads many of us to feel you are just saying crazy stuff to draw attention to yourself and get more hits. How can you act surprised if the Trolls come out?

Yahoo Finance is a reputable website, and the homepage of millions of professionals. I would appreciate it if you took it a little more seriously.

Thanks,

Jesse

]]> By: Dale http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/06/28/a-question-for-the-readers/comment-page-3/#comment-109684 Dale Sat, 13 Oct 2007 18:54:12 +0000 http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/06/28/a-question-for-the-readers/#comment-109684 Good points again Jim! Good points again Jim!

]]> By: Jim http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/06/28/a-question-for-the-readers/comment-page-3/#comment-109681 Jim Sat, 13 Oct 2007 03:50:13 +0000 http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/06/28/a-question-for-the-readers/#comment-109681 Okay, I explained what I did not like about P.T.'s column. I don't want to leave out what I like, and there's a lot I like. Penelope makes the point very often that we shouldn't plan on spending our whole careers working for one company. I agree completely. Loyalty to an employer is fine, but loyalty is a two-way street. Corporations are inherently disloyal to their employees; only individuals have personal feelings like loyalty. The time may come when your employer will lay off several thousand employees. It's nothing personal; it's business, as the Godfather said. The approach to take is to be honest and give the full measure of work for the pay you receive; and never bad-mouth the company you work for. But realize that the time will eventually come when you will leave. When you do go, leave on good terms! Never poison the well for yourself. Build your brand. That is another theme that runs through these columns. It is very good advice. For a scientist, it means building your professional reputation, becoming known for being good at whatever field or fields are your specialty, and being active in your professional society. For a marketing person, it means being good at laying out advertising campaigns and making your association with the campaigns known to others. And so on. Gaps in your resume? That's a tough one. They have to be the right kinds of gaps. I have a four-year gap in mine, but that was when I returned to school for my Ph.D. Some people take a year off to hike the Appalachian Trail. Whether that is seen as good or not depends on their field of work. For a physical training coach it probably is seen as good. For an artist, ditto. For a sales manager? It doesn't look so good. Don't work 70-hour weeks and let your health go to pot. Take time to take care of yourself. Penelope keeps repeating that, and she keeps getting flak for it. But she is 100% right. Others have pointed out that Yahoos like to flame columnists. They even give Ben Stein grief. I'd say it is just something that comes with the territory. It's not you, Penelope; it's the audience on Yahoo. Okay, I explained what I did not like about P.T.'s column. I don't want to leave out what I like, and there's a lot I like.

Penelope makes the point very often that we shouldn't plan on spending our whole careers working for one company. I agree completely.

Loyalty to an employer is fine, but loyalty is a two-way street. Corporations are inherently disloyal to their employees; only individuals have personal feelings like loyalty. The time may come when your employer will lay off several thousand employees. It's nothing personal; it's business, as the Godfather said.

The approach to take is to be honest and give the full measure of work for the pay you receive; and never bad-mouth the company you work for. But realize that the time will eventually come when you will leave. When you do go, leave on good terms! Never poison the well for yourself.

Build your brand. That is another theme that runs through these columns. It is very good advice. For a scientist, it means building your professional reputation, becoming known for being good at whatever field or fields are your specialty, and being active in your professional society. For a marketing person, it means being good at laying out advertising campaigns and making your association with the campaigns known to others. And so on.

Gaps in your resume? That's a tough one. They have to be the right kinds of gaps. I have a four-year gap in mine, but that was when I returned to school for my Ph.D. Some people take a year off to hike the Appalachian Trail. Whether that is seen as good or not depends on their field of work. For a physical training coach it probably is seen as good. For an artist, ditto. For a sales manager? It doesn't look so good.

Don't work 70-hour weeks and let your health go to pot. Take time to take care of yourself. Penelope keeps repeating that, and she keeps getting flak for it. But she is 100% right.

Others have pointed out that Yahoos like to flame columnists. They even give Ben Stein grief. I'd say it is just something that comes with the territory. It's not you, Penelope; it's the audience on Yahoo.

]]> By: Dale http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/06/28/a-question-for-the-readers/comment-page-3/#comment-109662 Dale Fri, 12 Oct 2007 13:29:52 +0000 http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/06/28/a-question-for-the-readers/#comment-109662 Amen Matt! I believe in healthy constructive debate (Jim's comment above being one such example), but most of the negative responses to Penny's posts are just asinine. "You're wrong and an idiot, I'm right and smart, so there :P " How stupid and childish can people get? The only positive in this is the fact that it makes this blog more valuable as it highlights difference in the workplace and the world, and the need to manage one's image in the face of a possibly more vocal, hostile, and competitive workplace. Amen Matt!
I believe in healthy constructive debate (Jim's comment above being one such example), but most of the negative responses to Penny's posts are just asinine. "You're wrong and an idiot, I'm right and smart, so there :P " How stupid and childish can people get? The only positive in this is the fact that it makes this blog more valuable as it highlights difference in the workplace and the world, and the need to manage one's image in the face of a possibly more vocal, hostile, and competitive workplace.

]]> By: Matt Bingham http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/06/28/a-question-for-the-readers/comment-page-2/#comment-109661 Matt Bingham Fri, 12 Oct 2007 12:58:29 +0000 http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/06/28/a-question-for-the-readers/#comment-109661 Personally - I skip most of those comments because they usually have nothing to do with your column. There is one person in particular that it doesn't matter what you write, he constantly bashes you and your family - which is rediculous. These people take the time to read your article, rate it, and type in a comment just to say that reading your stuff is a waste of time - they constantly criticize about your lack of research but yet the few who actually rebuttle have none. I disagree with them whole hearditly - the yahoo column is titled "Expert Opinion" which to me says that you are writing your opinion on a certain subject and that I may not agree with it. On things that I don't agree with or have a question on I usually pose it as a question asking for further explanation - you know, have an open mind. The other thing people fail to do is realize that your articles will not pertain to everyone. My best freind is a mechanic - would he follow these rules. Some of them in regards to making a brand - but most of the articles wouldn't apply. Sorry for the rant but it is very annoying reading through all of those comments. They add absolutely nothing to the column and in return makes it very difficult to weed through. Matt Personally – I skip most of those comments because they usually have nothing to do with your column. There is one person in particular that it doesn't matter what you write, he constantly bashes you and your family – which is rediculous. These people take the time to read your article, rate it, and type in a comment just to say that reading your stuff is a waste of time – they constantly criticize about your lack of research but yet the few who actually rebuttle have none. I disagree with them whole hearditly – the yahoo column is titled "Expert Opinion" which to me says that you are writing your opinion on a certain subject and that I may not agree with it. On things that I don't agree with or have a question on I usually pose it as a question asking for further explanation – you know, have an open mind. The other thing people fail to do is realize that your articles will not pertain to everyone. My best freind is a mechanic – would he follow these rules. Some of them in regards to making a brand – but most of the articles wouldn't apply. Sorry for the rant but it is very annoying reading through all of those comments. They add absolutely nothing to the column and in return makes it very difficult to weed through.

Matt

]]> By: Jim http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/06/28/a-question-for-the-readers/comment-page-2/#comment-109651 Jim Fri, 12 Oct 2007 03:46:33 +0000 http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/06/28/a-question-for-the-readers/#comment-109651 I read your column regularly. Sometimes I agree strongly, and sometimes I disagree vehemently. What I don't do is flame you when I disagree. I don't understand the ones who do. Now for the constructive criticism: If there is one annoying thing I see, it's the attitude I sometimes detect in your writing that says, "My generation is the only important one, and you fogies have to adapt to us." It reminds me of the younger half of the baby boomers -- you know, the spoiled brats that embarassed the nation and themselves during the Seventies. I'm happy that you feel you don't need the employers as much as they need you. If there are enough younger folks who feel the same way, it will really make consulting work or a half-time job easy for me to find when I retire a few years from now. That is because you folks really do need the employers. They seem quite happy these days to hire sixtysomethings who don't walk around with ipods screwed into their ears and chips on their shoulders. We are, by and large, in better shape than our parents were at this age. We are experienced and our kids are grown up, but we're not ready for the dog track. You're competing with the old hands. Better put your track shoes on! I read your column regularly. Sometimes I agree strongly, and sometimes I disagree vehemently. What I don't do is flame you when I disagree. I don't understand the ones who do.

Now for the constructive criticism: If there is one annoying thing I see, it's the attitude I sometimes detect in your writing that says, "My generation is the only important one, and you fogies have to adapt to us." It reminds me of the younger half of the baby boomers — you know, the spoiled brats that embarassed the nation and themselves during the Seventies.

I'm happy that you feel you don't need the employers as much as they need you. If there are enough younger folks who feel the same way, it will really make consulting work or a half-time job easy for me to find when I retire a few years from now.

That is because you folks really do need the employers. They seem quite happy these days to hire sixtysomethings who don't walk around with ipods screwed into their ears and chips on their shoulders. We are, by and large, in better shape than our parents were at this age. We are experienced and our kids are grown up, but we're not ready for the dog track.

You're competing with the old hands. Better put your track shoes on!

]]> By: Marcia http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/06/28/a-question-for-the-readers/comment-page-2/#comment-101597 Marcia Fri, 06 Jul 2007 19:59:58 +0000 http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/06/28/a-question-for-the-readers/#comment-101597 I want to comment on JR's comment. I've posted here a few times, and have read your column on Yahoo (and read the comments). I've also read Ryan's stuff, and Anya. I am 52, and I can relate to JR. I managed a department of techies, young and old. A lot of us aren't trying to bash the Yers, we are trying to understand them. The only way to understand them is to listen to what they have to say and interact with them. I don't always agree with you. Sometimes I think you are forward-thinking, other times I roll my eyes and think OMG! But that doesn't really matter. The conversation is what matters. Regarding your question for readers: Yahoo is a tough crowd. If you think they pan you, just read the zingers they leave for Robert Kiyosaki! I'm not sure what people are expecting there, but I have come to realize that they generally give the fact-filled, solid, conventional wisdom more stars than the cutting edge stuff. They seem to think an expert should be just that...a tried by fire and came out alive expert. On the flip side, your blog is a softer, sometimes more personal commentary, as someone said, it's kind of like you've invited us into your living room. People go to Yahoo for financial/career advice. They come here to see what Penelope has to say today. I have noticed many of the negative comments are NOT from older people because the poster will reveal his age, so don't just toss out the bad ones as having come from across the generational divide. An earlier poster said that you would learn more from the "negative" comments, but take them with a grain of salt. I totally agree. Don't get sidetracked by the posters who express their undying admiration for you. I'd take all those one star comments that say "Blah blah blah" or "This is an expert? So's my dog" and just toss them out. Focus on the ones where people have actually commented on what you've said. I've noticed some people misread the article and then bash it based on their misunderstanding...I find those amusing. I want to comment on JR's comment. I've posted here a few times, and have read your column on Yahoo (and read the comments). I've also read Ryan's stuff, and Anya. I am 52, and I can relate to JR. I managed a department of techies, young and old. A lot of us aren't trying to bash the Yers, we are trying to understand them. The only way to understand them is to listen to what they have to say and interact with them. I don't always agree with you. Sometimes I think you are forward-thinking, other times I roll my eyes and think OMG! But that doesn't really matter. The conversation is what matters.

Regarding your question for readers: Yahoo is a tough crowd. If you think they pan you, just read the zingers they leave for Robert Kiyosaki! I'm not sure what people are expecting there, but I have come to realize that they generally give the fact-filled, solid, conventional wisdom more stars than the cutting edge stuff. They seem to think an expert should be just that…a tried by fire and came out alive expert. On the flip side, your blog is a softer, sometimes more personal commentary, as someone said, it's kind of like you've invited us into your living room. People go to Yahoo for financial/career advice. They come here to see what Penelope has to say today. I have noticed many of the negative comments are NOT from older people because the poster will reveal his age, so don't just toss out the bad ones as having come from across the generational divide. An earlier poster said that you would learn more from the "negative" comments, but take them with a grain of salt. I totally agree. Don't get sidetracked by the posters who express their undying admiration for you. I'd take all those one star comments that say "Blah blah blah" or "This is an expert? So's my dog" and just toss them out. Focus on the ones where people have actually commented on what you've said. I've noticed some people misread the article and then bash it based on their misunderstanding…I find those amusing.

]]> By: Mike Lewis http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/06/28/a-question-for-the-readers/comment-page-2/#comment-101144 Mike Lewis Thu, 05 Jul 2007 23:20:04 +0000 http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/06/28/a-question-for-the-readers/#comment-101144 Anne Z. nailed it in her 6/28 comment: "I know because I’m 32 and had a “brazen” attitude in my 20’s. I’ve spent the past several years trying to correct my mistakes. Do I like the corporate world not for a minute, but I have responsibilities and need to keep my options open. *I’m often reminded that there are over a billion people overseas studying for my job right now.* You and Ryan are writing to a niche market and giving the market what it wants to hear." Mike Anne Z. nailed it in her 6/28 comment:
"I know because I’m 32 and had a “brazen” attitude in my 20’s. I’ve spent the past several years trying to correct my mistakes. Do I like the corporate world not for a minute, but I have responsibilities and need to keep my options open. *I’m often reminded that there are over a billion people overseas studying for my job right now.*

You and Ryan are writing to a niche market and giving the market what it wants to hear."

Mike

]]> By: JR http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/06/28/a-question-for-the-readers/comment-page-2/#comment-100681 JR Thu, 05 Jul 2007 06:41:56 +0000 http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/06/28/a-question-for-the-readers/#comment-100681 Penelope, I think you're right on, pretty much all of the time, not half the time as someone else noted. I'm a mid-manager in big high-tech. What you're writing about plays-out every day for us: a different set of values, goals and behaviors that people react to by trying the same thing harder and with more fervor. (If you don't speak the language, just say it in English louder and slower!) The biggest problem I see is that top management in so many places is in complete denial about the generational and cultural shifts that are going on. They're not necessarily evil; just anchored in their own ways, although often with a healthy dose of hubris. That just doesn't translate to the people we hire, who see it as a lack of vision and leadership. My ray of sunshine: your blog and others help arm me for those daily conversations where I chip away at helping people change perspectives. -JR (BTW, I'm 56, still young.) * * * * * <em>Wow, this is a great comment. It was a nice comment before the last line. But at the last line, I was shocked. You challenged my assumptions about what sort of comment a 56-year-old would leave. Thank you for surprising me and making me think harder about having an open mind.</em> <em>Penelope</em> Penelope,

I think you're right on, pretty much all of the time, not half the time as someone else noted.

I'm a mid-manager in big high-tech. What you're writing about plays-out every day for us: a different set of values, goals and behaviors that people react to by trying the same thing harder and with more fervor. (If you don't speak the language, just say it in English louder and slower!)

The biggest problem I see is that top management in so many places is in complete denial about the generational and cultural shifts that are going on. They're not necessarily evil; just anchored in their own ways, although often with a healthy dose of hubris. That just doesn't translate to the people we hire, who see it as a lack of vision and leadership.

My ray of sunshine: your blog and others help arm me for those daily conversations where I chip away at helping people change perspectives.

-JR

(BTW, I'm 56, still young.)

* * * * *

Wow, this is a great comment. It was a nice comment before the last line. But at the last line, I was shocked. You challenged my assumptions about what sort of comment a 56-year-old would leave. Thank you for surprising me and making me think harder about having an open mind.

Penelope

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