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	<title>Comments on: Workplace etiquette and the art of selling it</title>
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	<link>http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/06/13/workplace-etiquette-and-the-art-of-selling-it/</link>
	<description>Advice at the intersection of work and life</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 09 Feb 2012 13:32:22 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Kibrika</title>
		<link>http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/06/13/workplace-etiquette-and-the-art-of-selling-it/comment-page-1/#comment-94612</link>
		<dc:creator>Kibrika</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Jun 2007 12:58:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/06/13/workplace-etiquette-and-the-art-of-selling-it/#comment-94612</guid>
		<description>I read &quot;treasuring our ethnicity is a Good Thing&quot; somewhere in the beginning and read all the way down hoping to find why? I&#039;ll be grateful if I find an answer other than just &quot;more diversity - more fun and experience&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I read &#034;treasuring our ethnicity is a Good Thing&#034; somewhere in the beginning and read all the way down hoping to find why? I&#039;ll be grateful if I find an answer other than just &#034;more diversity &#8211; more fun and experience&#034;.</p>
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		<title>By: Trying hard</title>
		<link>http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/06/13/workplace-etiquette-and-the-art-of-selling-it/comment-page-1/#comment-93568</link>
		<dc:creator>Trying hard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Jun 2007 02:45:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/06/13/workplace-etiquette-and-the-art-of-selling-it/#comment-93568</guid>
		<description>I was about to send a link to this blog to a young friend out of college, but then I read this post.

The ridiculous comment about the author&#039;s name, coupled with Ms. Trunk&#039;s diatribe about the overweight author, really give me pause.

They&#039;re just ignorant, and they make me question all of the other advice she gives (and which I cannot necessarily judge the veracity of, e.g., career trends, etc.)

Smarten up, Penelope.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was about to send a link to this blog to a young friend out of college, but then I read this post.</p>
<p>The ridiculous comment about the author&#039;s name, coupled with Ms. Trunk&#039;s diatribe about the overweight author, really give me pause.</p>
<p>They&#039;re just ignorant, and they make me question all of the other advice she gives (and which I cannot necessarily judge the veracity of, e.g., career trends, etc.)</p>
<p>Smarten up, Penelope.</p>
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		<title>By: Caitlin</title>
		<link>http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/06/13/workplace-etiquette-and-the-art-of-selling-it/comment-page-1/#comment-91656</link>
		<dc:creator>Caitlin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jun 2007 14:39:49 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>C.J., I don&#039;t believe that Penelope was talking about gender identity. I think she was pointing out that ethnic identity comes from both parents, yet surnames only reflect one.

If your mother is Polish and your father is Italian and you were born and brought up in America, what ethnicity are you? Your last name might sound Italian but in my view your ethnicity is as much Polish as Italian. And your nationality (which is different but no less important) is American.

In your case, you are Jewish on both sides, but for most people it is not so clear cut. In a multicultural society like America most people will have many ethnicities in their background.

I don&#039;t believe the subject of pronunciation is necessarily linked to ethnicity. Names like Wong and Chan and Lee are pretty easy to pronounce.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>C.J., I don&#039;t believe that Penelope was talking about gender identity. I think she was pointing out that ethnic identity comes from both parents, yet surnames only reflect one.</p>
<p>If your mother is Polish and your father is Italian and you were born and brought up in America, what ethnicity are you? Your last name might sound Italian but in my view your ethnicity is as much Polish as Italian. And your nationality (which is different but no less important) is American.</p>
<p>In your case, you are Jewish on both sides, but for most people it is not so clear cut. In a multicultural society like America most people will have many ethnicities in their background.</p>
<p>I don&#039;t believe the subject of pronunciation is necessarily linked to ethnicity. Names like Wong and Chan and Lee are pretty easy to pronounce.</p>
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		<title>By: Alan</title>
		<link>http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/06/13/workplace-etiquette-and-the-art-of-selling-it/comment-page-1/#comment-91418</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jun 2007 05:37:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/06/13/workplace-etiquette-and-the-art-of-selling-it/#comment-91418</guid>
		<description>Nice post.
I believe that good relationship is what everyone needs to build. It doesn&#039;t have to be serious. As long as we have the time, it&#039;s always better to do it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice post.<br />
I believe that good relationship is what everyone needs to build. It doesn&#039;t have to be serious. As long as we have the time, it&#039;s always better to do it.</p>
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		<title>By: C.J. Minster</title>
		<link>http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/06/13/workplace-etiquette-and-the-art-of-selling-it/comment-page-1/#comment-91391</link>
		<dc:creator>C.J. Minster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jun 2007 04:05:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/06/13/workplace-etiquette-and-the-art-of-selling-it/#comment-91391</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m happy to see you read my comment, Penelope. Yes, I had read all of the previous comments and your responses to them. I never said the issue was extremely simple, nor did I claim that Anita Bruzzese was Italian. Your response conflates gender identity with ethnic identity. 

I never said my gender identity was solely linked to my father. I have plenty of female relatives on his side who inspire me and who help shape my gender identity. But that is really beside the point of this thread. I consider my Jewish identity to be my ethnic identity and by using my last name proudly, I am not only connecting with my father, but also connecting with the many generations of Ukranian Jews on both sides of my family. 

And yet, there is one undeniable truth behind your insistence that names should be casually thrown aside in order to succeed - mainstream society is much more comfortable with names they can pronounce. In college I remember seeing studies that hiring managers when given a choice between people with the exact same education and experience on their resumes tend to choose to invite people in for interviews who have names they can pronounce, rather than those who are &quot;too ethnic.&quot; 

For me, this does not mean we should all take on easy to pronounce names. Rather, we should work harder to expand our fellow citizens acceptance of  Otherness. 

As an Angeleno, I was inspired by the mayor&#039;s decision earlier in his life to combine his last name with his wife&#039;s surname to create Villaraigosa. Now that his marriage is devolving amid rumors of him engaging in extramarital affairs, I wonder what will happen to the last name. But I&#039;m also reminded that there is absolutely no reason to strip away one&#039;s ethnicity in order to succeed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#039;m happy to see you read my comment, Penelope. Yes, I had read all of the previous comments and your responses to them. I never said the issue was extremely simple, nor did I claim that Anita Bruzzese was Italian. Your response conflates gender identity with ethnic identity. </p>
<p>I never said my gender identity was solely linked to my father. I have plenty of female relatives on his side who inspire me and who help shape my gender identity. But that is really beside the point of this thread. I consider my Jewish identity to be my ethnic identity and by using my last name proudly, I am not only connecting with my father, but also connecting with the many generations of Ukranian Jews on both sides of my family. </p>
<p>And yet, there is one undeniable truth behind your insistence that names should be casually thrown aside in order to succeed &#8211; mainstream society is much more comfortable with names they can pronounce. In college I remember seeing studies that hiring managers when given a choice between people with the exact same education and experience on their resumes tend to choose to invite people in for interviews who have names they can pronounce, rather than those who are &#034;too ethnic.&#034; </p>
<p>For me, this does not mean we should all take on easy to pronounce names. Rather, we should work harder to expand our fellow citizens acceptance of  Otherness. </p>
<p>As an Angeleno, I was inspired by the mayor&#039;s decision earlier in his life to combine his last name with his wife&#039;s surname to create Villaraigosa. Now that his marriage is devolving amid rumors of him engaging in extramarital affairs, I wonder what will happen to the last name. But I&#039;m also reminded that there is absolutely no reason to strip away one&#039;s ethnicity in order to succeed.</p>
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		<title>By: Greg</title>
		<link>http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/06/13/workplace-etiquette-and-the-art-of-selling-it/comment-page-1/#comment-91291</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Jun 2007 23:57:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/06/13/workplace-etiquette-and-the-art-of-selling-it/#comment-91291</guid>
		<description>Steve Jobs, et. al.

Keep in mind that there are always exceptions when dealing with humans. We can all find stories of someone who drank, drugged, and lived a generally unsafe life style who lived to a ripe old age. Exceptions do not nullify good practices.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steve Jobs, et. al.</p>
<p>Keep in mind that there are always exceptions when dealing with humans. We can all find stories of someone who drank, drugged, and lived a generally unsafe life style who lived to a ripe old age. Exceptions do not nullify good practices.</p>
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		<title>By: C.J. Minster</title>
		<link>http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/06/13/workplace-etiquette-and-the-art-of-selling-it/comment-page-1/#comment-90896</link>
		<dc:creator>C.J. Minster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Jun 2007 06:21:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/06/13/workplace-etiquette-and-the-art-of-selling-it/#comment-90896</guid>
		<description>I find it incredibly sad to see you defending the white-washing of ethnic differences because somehow technology has made our ethnic differences moot. Actually, what you described from your personal life is an example of a monocultural society having difficulty acclimating to a multicultural name. Despite people knowing the name &quot;West Minster Abbey&quot; they never seem to get my last name right - no, I am not a minister. I also happen to be Jewish and I&#039;ve had plenty of people tell me my name and/or my appearance is not Jewish (nevermind my politics).

I find a lot of your writing interesting. But I&#039;m not searching for ways to fit into the white Christian mainstream. I&#039;m looking for tools to help me better play the game of work and help me be a better writer. I&#039;ll take what&#039;s useful from your site and dismiss your social commentary for what it is - monocultural blather.

* * * * *

&lt;em&gt;Hi, CJ.
Thank you for your comment. I hear you. Did you see my response to comments above? I agree with you that we do not need to whitewash the world. However it&#039;s not as black and white as you make it. And now that I&#039;ve had a couple of days to think, I am feeling more adamant about my initial position: Last names in this country come from men. It&#039;s centuries of dumping the ethnic last name of the woman in favor of the ethnic last name of the man. We have no idea if Anita Bruzzese is Italian. Most women with a non-hyphenated last name have the name of their father or their husband. It is a large leap to think that a woman&#039;s last name reflects her true ethnicity -- or her mother&#039;s for that matter.&lt;/em&gt;

&lt;em&gt;So if we are going to jump up and down about the importance of ethnicity then last names is probably the last place to start. They are the result of ignoring the ethnicity of women for centuries.&lt;/em&gt;

&lt;em&gt;Penelope&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I find it incredibly sad to see you defending the white-washing of ethnic differences because somehow technology has made our ethnic differences moot. Actually, what you described from your personal life is an example of a monocultural society having difficulty acclimating to a multicultural name. Despite people knowing the name &#034;West Minster Abbey&#034; they never seem to get my last name right &#8211; no, I am not a minister. I also happen to be Jewish and I&#039;ve had plenty of people tell me my name and/or my appearance is not Jewish (nevermind my politics).</p>
<p>I find a lot of your writing interesting. But I&#039;m not searching for ways to fit into the white Christian mainstream. I&#039;m looking for tools to help me better play the game of work and help me be a better writer. I&#039;ll take what&#039;s useful from your site and dismiss your social commentary for what it is &#8211; monocultural blather.</p>
<p>* * * * *</p>
<p><em>Hi, CJ.<br />
Thank you for your comment. I hear you. Did you see my response to comments above? I agree with you that we do not need to whitewash the world. However it&#039;s not as black and white as you make it. And now that I&#039;ve had a couple of days to think, I am feeling more adamant about my initial position: Last names in this country come from men. It&#039;s centuries of dumping the ethnic last name of the woman in favor of the ethnic last name of the man. We have no idea if Anita Bruzzese is Italian. Most women with a non-hyphenated last name have the name of their father or their husband. It is a large leap to think that a woman&#039;s last name reflects her true ethnicity &#8212; or her mother&#039;s for that matter.</em></p>
<p><em>So if we are going to jump up and down about the importance of ethnicity then last names is probably the last place to start. They are the result of ignoring the ethnicity of women for centuries.</em></p>
<p><em>Penelope</em></p>
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		<title>By: Darlene</title>
		<link>http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/06/13/workplace-etiquette-and-the-art-of-selling-it/comment-page-1/#comment-90838</link>
		<dc:creator>Darlene</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Jun 2007 03:53:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/06/13/workplace-etiquette-and-the-art-of-selling-it/#comment-90838</guid>
		<description>Penelope, I have to say that you are one of the most interesting bloggers I have read since my introduction to this world of blogging. As a result, I have tagged you over at my blog interviewchatter.com. I look forward to learning more about you.

Your posts are VERY interesting so I know that you must be equally intersting. I would love to know more about you and how you came to blog as the Brazen Careerist!

* * * * *

&lt;em&gt;Hi, Darlene. Thank you for the nice comment! You can read my bio here:&lt;/em&gt;

&lt;em&gt;http://www.penelopetrunk.com/aboutme.html&lt;/em&gt;

&lt;em&gt;And here&#039;s another popular post about who I am:&lt;/em&gt;

&lt;em&gt;http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/03/05/my-name-is-not-really-penelope/&lt;/em&gt;

&lt;em&gt;--Penelope&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Penelope, I have to say that you are one of the most interesting bloggers I have read since my introduction to this world of blogging. As a result, I have tagged you over at my blog interviewchatter.com. I look forward to learning more about you.</p>
<p>Your posts are VERY interesting so I know that you must be equally intersting. I would love to know more about you and how you came to blog as the Brazen Careerist!</p>
<p>* * * * *</p>
<p><em>Hi, Darlene. Thank you for the nice comment! You can read my bio here:</em></p>
<p><em><a href="http://www.penelopetrunk.com/aboutme.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.penelopetrunk.com/aboutme.html</a></em></p>
<p><em>And here&#039;s another popular post about who I am:</em></p>
<p><em><a href="http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/03/05/my-name-is-not-really-penelope/" rel="nofollow">http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/03/05/my-name-is-not-really-penelope/</a></em></p>
<p><em>&#8211;Penelope</em></p>
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		<title>By: Helen</title>
		<link>http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/06/13/workplace-etiquette-and-the-art-of-selling-it/comment-page-1/#comment-89724</link>
		<dc:creator>Helen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jun 2007 02:43:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/06/13/workplace-etiquette-and-the-art-of-selling-it/#comment-89724</guid>
		<description>Excellent points to consider. Since it&#039;s concerned more about our boss, I think that one of the answer could be a good relationship with our boss and everyone we work with. With this, there&#039;s no reason for others don&#039;t like you..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent points to consider. Since it&#039;s concerned more about our boss, I think that one of the answer could be a good relationship with our boss and everyone we work with. With this, there&#039;s no reason for others don&#039;t like you..</p>
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		<title>By: BFuniv Rector</title>
		<link>http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/06/13/workplace-etiquette-and-the-art-of-selling-it/comment-page-1/#comment-89630</link>
		<dc:creator>BFuniv Rector</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Jun 2007 23:37:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/06/13/workplace-etiquette-and-the-art-of-selling-it/#comment-89630</guid>
		<description>These comments go well with your post about learning to handle rejection if you want to be an author.

Who knows how much effect is made initially by a hard to pronounce name? Once familiar a name becomes part of a persona, just like the letters IBM or AT&amp;T have become part of their corporate identity. I see no racist bias in your comment, just an observation.

Of course I named Bastiat Free University, and I now have to provide a pronunciation guide (bästyä´). That has caused some initial stumbles, but may latter be of no effect or even a benefit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>These comments go well with your post about learning to handle rejection if you want to be an author.</p>
<p>Who knows how much effect is made initially by a hard to pronounce name? Once familiar a name becomes part of a persona, just like the letters IBM or AT&amp;T have become part of their corporate identity. I see no racist bias in your comment, just an observation.</p>
<p>Of course I named Bastiat Free University, and I now have to provide a pronunciation guide (bästyä´). That has caused some initial stumbles, but may latter be of no effect or even a benefit.</p>
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