Comments on: Book excerpt: Methods for controlling the hours you work http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/05/29/book-excerpt-methods-for-controlling-the-hours-you-work/ Advice at the intersection of work and life Thu, 09 Feb 2012 16:29:23 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v= By: ChrisH http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/05/29/book-excerpt-methods-for-controlling-the-hours-you-work/comment-page-1/#comment-262065 ChrisH Mon, 03 Oct 2011 03:30:00 +0000 http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/05/29/book-excerpt-methods-for-controlling-the-hours-you-work/#comment-262065 hmm. I like this post. some of this is normal 'manage up' or managing scope and risk. the part about establishing boundaries and outside priorities is especially true.   i found that the prevailing attitude in a lot of companies is managing by objective has trumped the idea of working a sensible schedule. 'do what it takes' is no longer a motto i can subscribe to - maybe in my 20's, less so in my 30's, definitely not now in my 40's. life's too short, and i have my own shit to do - some of it is occasionally even fun or interesting. a lack of understanding of what X really takes by upper management causes a lot of this. some just don't care because they get paid more when you work harder and they keep their expenses down by not hiring people or creating ecosystems with tools and process. this is also known as bad management and leadership, and trust me when i say that there's an astonishing amount of it out there.   if your boss or bosses are routinely worked excessively by objective by the company (their bosses) or take on too much work to establish their own value and compensation, then you can assume that you will be too. shit travels downhill predictably.   one thing that you can't overcome when you reach the management ranks is that the amount of time that you spend in meetings - either contributing to them, being informed by them, or leading them means that's essentially your work product. i have found zero time to actually do the work required to support those meetings during the standard working day. trouble is, i don't have staff to do my work for me, and that's the rub. more often than notm, my staff are not as experienced as i am, and i can't generally rely upon them to give me what i call 'finished work' - work that i don't have to touch and can present to my management as representative of good quality work that i would be comfortable presenting as my own (because that's what i'm doing, essentially)   most people in this situation are doing meetings 6-8 hours/day, politiking in the off-meeting time, firfighting and running down last minute lists of things that are required to keep the wheels on their team.    all too typically what happens is that they have to their own work to do still, and otherwise they have to proof or edit existing work provided to them when they're not constantly being interrupted while in the office. that means working at night to prep for the following day(s).   it also means working during the weekends to make up for the work that required longer blocks of time to consume and produce - capital projects, operating budgets, fiscal planning, resource allocation, prep for hiring, etc.   in today's corporate environments, this is status-quo, and it's what's required to lead, manage and be successful. if you're not able to push back effectively, manage assignments given to you (as opposed to requested), limit risk and free up time in your own weekday calendar, then you will fail. eventually. either your career will fail, or your personal life will come so unglued as to make you pay attention to that as an emergency rather than a maintenance activity. been there, done that, lived it, and no thanks.   understanding this will help you to create those boundaries pretty quickly, or suffer epic burnout at which point you'll either be performance managed and worked out (fired, contract not renewed), or you'll be looking for a new job anyway.   so this list is essentially a must-have for any professional in modern-day business.   my tips:   find a reason to leave, even if you have to make it up, and leave don't enable work e-mail at home or on your phone, or find a way to shut it off and do it as soon as you leave do not work at night. period. do not work during the weekends. period.   otherwise, it's your fault for being overworked. and consider this:   on salary you are being compensated for a normal work week - that's 40 hours.   you should be expected to work additional time as necessary, but create a cap.   i tell my directs that if they are putting in more than 15% extra time each week (44-46 hours per week) then they are at max capacity and need to let me know if it goes for more than 3 weeks consecutively.   don't forget that if you routinely work 50% or more on overtime (60+ hours) you not only have no life, but you're absorbing the company's risks of underfunding and under-resourcing as well, and that's not fair or reasonable.      60 hours/week, you're also getting roughly a 34% decrease in your hourly wages. so if you make $10k in salary, you just made the equivalent of $6.6k every time you put in a 60 hour work week. that's math that hurts you because you don't get paid for it, ever, but the expectations are that you continue to produce or perform at that level. ergo, you'll never get the resources that you need because if you were the company and getting the milk for free, why would you buy an extra cow, so to speak.    so just don't do it. and if it's required ad-infinitum, leave.     hmm. I like this post. some of this is normal 'manage up' or managing scope and risk. the part about establishing boundaries and outside priorities is especially true.
 
i found that the prevailing attitude in a lot of companies is managing by objective has trumped the idea of working a sensible schedule. 'do what it takes' is no longer a motto i can subscribe to – maybe in my 20's, less so in my 30's, definitely not now in my 40's. life's too short, and i have my own shit to do – some of it is occasionally even fun or interesting.
a lack of understanding of what X really takes by upper management causes a lot of this. some just don't care because they get paid more when you work harder and they keep their expenses down by not hiring people or creating ecosystems with tools and process. this is also known as bad management and leadership, and trust me when i say that there's an astonishing amount of it out there.
 
if your boss or bosses are routinely worked excessively by objective by the company (their bosses) or take on too much work to establish their own value and compensation, then you can assume that you will be too. shit travels downhill predictably.
 
one thing that you can't overcome when you reach the management ranks is that the amount of time that you spend in meetings – either contributing to them, being informed by them, or leading them means that's essentially your work product. i have found zero time to actually do the work required to support those meetings during the standard working day. trouble is, i don't have staff to do my work for me, and that's the rub. more often than notm, my staff are not as experienced as i am, and i can't generally rely upon them to give me what i call 'finished work' – work that i don't have to touch and can present to my management as representative of good quality work that i would be comfortable presenting as my own (because that's what i'm doing, essentially)
 
most people in this situation are doing meetings 6-8 hours/day, politiking in the off-meeting time, firfighting and running down last minute lists of things that are required to keep the wheels on their team. 
 
all too typically what happens is that they have to their own work to do still, and otherwise they have to proof or edit existing work provided to them when they're not constantly being interrupted while in the office. that means working at night to prep for the following day(s).
 
it also means working during the weekends to make up for the work that required longer blocks of time to consume and produce – capital projects, operating budgets, fiscal planning, resource allocation, prep for hiring, etc.
 
in today's corporate environments, this is status-quo, and it's what's required to lead, manage and be successful. if you're not able to push back effectively, manage assignments given to you (as opposed to requested), limit risk and free up time in your own weekday calendar, then you will fail. eventually. either your career will fail, or your personal life will come so unglued as to make you pay attention to that as an emergency rather than a maintenance activity. been there, done that, lived it, and no thanks.
 
understanding this will help you to create those boundaries pretty quickly, or suffer epic burnout at which point you'll either be performance managed and worked out (fired, contract not renewed), or you'll be looking for a new job anyway.
 
so this list is essentially a must-have for any professional in modern-day business.
 
my tips:
 
find a reason to leave, even if you have to make it up, and leave
don't enable work e-mail at home or on your phone, or find a way to shut it off and do it as soon as you leave
do not work at night. period.
do not work during the weekends. period.
 
otherwise, it's your fault for being overworked. and consider this:
 
on salary you are being compensated for a normal work week – that's 40 hours.
 
you should be expected to work additional time as necessary, but create a cap.
 
i tell my directs that if they are putting in more than 15% extra time each week (44-46 hours per week) then they are at max capacity and need to let me know if it goes for more than 3 weeks consecutively.
 
don't forget that if you routinely work 50% or more on overtime (60+ hours) you not only have no life, but you're absorbing the company's risks of underfunding and under-resourcing as well, and that's not fair or reasonable.
 
 
 60 hours/week, you're also getting roughly a 34% decrease in your hourly wages. so if you make $10k in salary, you just made the equivalent of $6.6k every time you put in a 60 hour work week. that's math that hurts you because you don't get paid for it, ever, but the expectations are that you continue to produce or perform at that level. ergo, you'll never get the resources that you need because if you were the company and getting the milk for free, why would you buy an extra cow, so to speak.
 
 so just don't do it. and if it's required ad-infinitum, leave.
 
 

]]> By: Assech Omega http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/05/29/book-excerpt-methods-for-controlling-the-hours-you-work/comment-page-1/#comment-248527 Assech Omega Tue, 12 Apr 2011 08:50:07 +0000 http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/05/29/book-excerpt-methods-for-controlling-the-hours-you-work/#comment-248527 <a href="http://www.chineseenergetics.com" rel="nofollow"> Energy Psychology </a> this is really cool!!
Energy Psychology

this is really cool!!

]]> By: xyz http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/05/29/book-excerpt-methods-for-controlling-the-hours-you-work/comment-page-1/#comment-245666 xyz Fri, 18 Mar 2011 06:41:35 +0000 http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/05/29/book-excerpt-methods-for-controlling-the-hours-you-work/#comment-245666 Just 2 words : Too good Just 2 words : Too good

]]> By: venkat http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/05/29/book-excerpt-methods-for-controlling-the-hours-you-work/comment-page-1/#comment-163893 venkat Sat, 09 Aug 2008 15:21:43 +0000 http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/05/29/book-excerpt-methods-for-controlling-the-hours-you-work/#comment-163893 Walter Schloss, disciple of ben graham and contemporary of warren buffet, worked from 9 to 5 only. he managed investment firm. he is not obsessed about money investing and being rich. you can searc thru google ben graham center of value investing. Walter Schloss, disciple of ben graham and contemporary of warren buffet, worked from 9 to 5 only. he managed investment firm. he is not obsessed about money investing and being rich.
you can searc thru google ben graham center of value investing.

]]> By: J http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/05/29/book-excerpt-methods-for-controlling-the-hours-you-work/comment-page-1/#comment-147091 J Fri, 09 May 2008 21:48:27 +0000 http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/05/29/book-excerpt-methods-for-controlling-the-hours-you-work/#comment-147091 Hi Penelope, Most billionaires and others successful people work/ed incredibly long hours. I know no one rich or successful whom works 9 to 5 with the weekends off. The talk about decreasing productivity from long hours I think results primarily from doing work you don't like. So the key here isn't less hours, I think the key is to find work you like. A lot this work life balance in my opinion is just laziness. The average person watches 4 hours of television (although to be fair, this probably includes retired persons whom drag this up). I don't have data to prove this, but I really don't think people need to rest 4-6 hours a day. As a former professional athlete, I'm sure you practiced more than the average player. Why doesn't this make sense in the workplace. Hi Penelope,
Most billionaires and others successful people work/ed incredibly long hours. I know no one rich or successful whom works 9 to 5 with the weekends off. The talk about decreasing productivity from long hours I think results primarily from doing work you don't like. So the key here isn't less hours, I think the key is to find work you like.

A lot this work life balance in my opinion is just laziness.
The average person watches 4 hours of television (although to be fair, this probably includes retired persons whom drag this up). I don't have data to prove this, but I really don't think people need to rest 4-6 hours a day.

As a former professional athlete, I'm sure you practiced more than the average player. Why doesn't this make sense in the workplace.

]]> By: Andrey http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/05/29/book-excerpt-methods-for-controlling-the-hours-you-work/comment-page-1/#comment-89336 Andrey Thu, 14 Jun 2007 11:12:38 +0000 http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/05/29/book-excerpt-methods-for-controlling-the-hours-you-work/#comment-89336 Hi Penelope, The column is great! I will print a copy too. One question: If one tries to get loaded less then others, and many of the others work overtime, then the one will not be likable among the stuff. How to be likable in the situation when others see your efforts and results in getting less workload? Thanks for the article, it gives food for thought ...) * * * * * <em>Andrey, this is a good question. Here is something that comes to mind: If doing a lot of work made people likeable then the hardest worker would be the most likeable. But in fact, it's usually not true in the office. So the people who are not the hardest workers are doing something else, besides work, that makes them likeable. Learn to do that stuff so that you don't have to focus on workload. That said, if you do no work and force everyone to pick up your slack, you will not have friends. Moderation is the key here, I think.</em> <em>Penelope</em> Hi Penelope,

The column is great! I will print a copy too.

One question: If one tries to get loaded less then others, and many of the others work overtime, then the one will not be likable among the stuff.
How to be likable in the situation when others see your efforts and results in getting less workload?

Thanks for the article, it gives food for thought …)

* * * * *

Andrey, this is a good question. Here is something that comes to mind: If doing a lot of work made people likeable then the hardest worker would be the most likeable. But in fact, it's usually not true in the office. So the people who are not the hardest workers are doing something else, besides work, that makes them likeable. Learn to do that stuff so that you don't have to focus on workload. That said, if you do no work and force everyone to pick up your slack, you will not have friends. Moderation is the key here, I think.
Penelope

]]> By: Justin Bishop http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/05/29/book-excerpt-methods-for-controlling-the-hours-you-work/comment-page-1/#comment-83909 Justin Bishop Wed, 06 Jun 2007 03:32:45 +0000 http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/05/29/book-excerpt-methods-for-controlling-the-hours-you-work/#comment-83909 Great recommendations for how to control your time. My only quibble is with the claim that coding video games is an industry that expects ungodly hours. This is a myth, perhaps perpetuated for you by stories concerning EA which came out not too long ago. It's really not true. A great game programmer is valued, and allowed to work very flexible hours... Great recommendations for how to control your time.

My only quibble is with the claim that coding video games is an industry that expects ungodly hours. This is a myth, perhaps perpetuated for you by stories concerning EA which came out not too long ago. It's really not true. A great game programmer is valued, and allowed to work very flexible hours…

]]> By: Alan http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/05/29/book-excerpt-methods-for-controlling-the-hours-you-work/comment-page-1/#comment-82193 Alan Mon, 04 Jun 2007 03:26:47 +0000 http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/05/29/book-excerpt-methods-for-controlling-the-hours-you-work/#comment-82193 Sometimes we forget that the value of our work depends on the quality and not on quantity. We can't expect anyone to be convinced that we did a good job for doing many things but don't give much effort in doing it. Sometimes we forget that the value of our work depends on the quality and not on quantity. We can't expect anyone to be convinced that we did a good job for doing many things but don't give much effort in doing it.

]]> By: Ron http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/05/29/book-excerpt-methods-for-controlling-the-hours-you-work/comment-page-1/#comment-80190 Ron Fri, 01 Jun 2007 08:45:15 +0000 http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/05/29/book-excerpt-methods-for-controlling-the-hours-you-work/#comment-80190 I'm obviously in the minority here, but I think the column about how to cut down on hours at work is nothing more than a how-to for lazies. I'm continually frustrated by the numbers of people who are expert at making themselves look productive when, in reality, they're doing nothing but busying themselves with avoiding work. Working long hours doesn't automatically make someone more productive or harder working, as some organizations and firms seem to think, but the advice given in this column seems more useful for all the lazy mo-fo's interested in doing as little work as possible -- a dime a dozen in most every organization I've ever worked in. It's the American way . . . I'm obviously in the minority here, but I think the column about how to cut down on hours at work is nothing more than a how-to for lazies. I'm continually frustrated by the numbers of people who are expert at making themselves look productive when, in reality, they're doing nothing but busying themselves with avoiding work. Working long hours doesn't automatically make someone more productive or harder working, as some organizations and firms seem to think, but the advice given in this column seems more useful for all the lazy mo-fo's interested in doing as little work as possible — a dime a dozen in most every organization I've ever worked in. It's the American way . . .

]]> By: Fran http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/05/29/book-excerpt-methods-for-controlling-the-hours-you-work/comment-page-1/#comment-80147 Fran Fri, 01 Jun 2007 06:41:33 +0000 http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/05/29/book-excerpt-methods-for-controlling-the-hours-you-work/#comment-80147 I agree with the list, especially with being in control of the things we do. We don't have to force ourself to do things that we don't like. If we think that a certain task will only slow us down and make us unproductive, we should should be frank about it. I agree with the list, especially with being in control of the things we do. We don't have to force ourself to do things that we don't like. If we think that a certain task will only slow us down and make us unproductive, we should should be frank about it.

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