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	<title>Comments on: Yahoo column: The worst career advice parents give their kids</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/05/17/yahoo-column-the-worst-career-advice-parents-give-their-kids/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/05/17/yahoo-column-the-worst-career-advice-parents-give-their-kids/</link>
	<description>Advice at the intersection of work and life</description>
	<pubDate>Mon, 08 Sep 2008 06:11:12 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Ken Wolman</title>
		<link>http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/05/17/yahoo-column-the-worst-career-advice-parents-give-their-kids/#comment-82584</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken Wolman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Jun 2007 14:47:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/05/17/yahoo-column-the-worst-career-advice-parents-give-their-kids/#comment-82584</guid>
		<description>Says Penelope: *"If there are no gaps in your résumé, it probably means you didn’t take any time in your life for reflecting. Sure, you can do your reflecting in the shower or during a boring meeting or on an invigorating run. But grand thinking requires grand amounts of time."*

Not always.  We both know gaps are not necessarily benign, and many managers and recruiters still look for the unbroken march to the summit as a sign of saleability.  I chose the honesty route and I paid for it.  I had a résumé with gaps at the end: the point where I dove out of corporate work into massage school, a psycho ward, county jail, and then a supermarket.  Obviously I don't want any of this on my résumé.  I had a canned explanation but it didn't necessarily wash.  So the hole stayed there, and it kept me from being submitted to at least one place: they told me as much without knowing the real story.  In effect I was told to pad, i.e., to lie.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Says Penelope: *&#034;If there are no gaps in your résumé, it probably means you didn’t take any time in your life for reflecting. Sure, you can do your reflecting in the shower or during a boring meeting or on an invigorating run. But grand thinking requires grand amounts of time.&#034;*</p>
<p>Not always.  We both know gaps are not necessarily benign, and many managers and recruiters still look for the unbroken march to the summit as a sign of saleability.  I chose the honesty route and I paid for it.  I had a résumé with gaps at the end: the point where I dove out of corporate work into massage school, a psycho ward, county jail, and then a supermarket.  Obviously I don&#039;t want any of this on my résumé.  I had a canned explanation but it didn&#039;t necessarily wash.  So the hole stayed there, and it kept me from being submitted to at least one place: they told me as much without knowing the real story.  In effect I was told to pad, i.e., to lie.</p>
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		<title>By: Stacey</title>
		<link>http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/05/17/yahoo-column-the-worst-career-advice-parents-give-their-kids/#comment-73554</link>
		<dc:creator>Stacey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 May 2007 07:16:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/05/17/yahoo-column-the-worst-career-advice-parents-give-their-kids/#comment-73554</guid>
		<description>It doesn't seem to be rare but that could also just be personal perspective.  It could also just be a regional phenomenon.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It doesn&#039;t seem to be rare but that could also just be personal perspective.  It could also just be a regional phenomenon.</p>
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		<title>By: Stacey</title>
		<link>http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/05/17/yahoo-column-the-worst-career-advice-parents-give-their-kids/#comment-73259</link>
		<dc:creator>Stacey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 May 2007 20:06:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/05/17/yahoo-column-the-worst-career-advice-parents-give-their-kids/#comment-73259</guid>
		<description>Penelope, I trust your judgement on each of these items independently, but it seems that points 3 and 5 are somewhat contradictory. Point 3 indicates that it's a buyer's market where recent grads have a lot of leverage in hiring negotiations. Point 5 indicates that entry level positions cannot and will not pay enough to facilitate independent living. I can see where this is another situation where one can pick time or pick money, but it still seems contradictory because most people would pick money, thus resolving in part issue #5.

As for people moving back home... I just graduated, so I can give personal anecdotal evidence on this point. I'd say that most of my friends are moving home *for a brief period of time* immediately following graduation. Many of them have not spent significant amounts of time with their families in 4 years and miss that interaction. At the same time, many of them are not getting jobs with "adequate compensation" that would allow them to live individually. However, it seems that the people with crappy paychecks didn't really put much effort into finding "grown-up jobs". (My favorite example is the former roomate who graduated in the top of her class as an English major and only looked for jobs in the daycare industry.) These two factors combined indicates that a lot of these people don't necessarily percieve themselves as being independent adults anyways. Add in the new social phenomenon of Helicopter Parents and you see how this generation works. I'd also like to go on the record saying that this apparent "baby-fication" of this generation is probably positive in that it indicates a strengthening of family ties and increased levels of familial social support. This leads to cultural continuity and countries with stronger family bonding typically have lower crime and suicide rates. (Suddenly, I sense that I have spun off into a tangent.)

I do have one question about the 58% statistic: how does that number account for students who marry immediately following graduation? This is still a common phenomenon, at least in my region, and I would expect most newlywed couples to form independent households. So, if the 58% is only single students, then probably only a third of all college graduates moves back home with their parents. But if the 58% includes marrried students, then half a generation moves back home after graduating. (I'd also be interested to see the statistics on how long people are spending at home following graduation.)

* * * * * *
&lt;I&gt;The average age for women to get married is 27 and men is 28. I think people who get married right out of college are relatively rare.

--Penelope&lt;/I&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Penelope, I trust your judgement on each of these items independently, but it seems that points 3 and 5 are somewhat contradictory. Point 3 indicates that it&#039;s a buyer&#039;s market where recent grads have a lot of leverage in hiring negotiations. Point 5 indicates that entry level positions cannot and will not pay enough to facilitate independent living. I can see where this is another situation where one can pick time or pick money, but it still seems contradictory because most people would pick money, thus resolving in part issue #5.</p>
<p>As for people moving back home&#8230; I just graduated, so I can give personal anecdotal evidence on this point. I&#039;d say that most of my friends are moving home *for a brief period of time* immediately following graduation. Many of them have not spent significant amounts of time with their families in 4 years and miss that interaction. At the same time, many of them are not getting jobs with &#034;adequate compensation&#034; that would allow them to live individually. However, it seems that the people with crappy paychecks didn&#039;t really put much effort into finding &#034;grown-up jobs&#034;. (My favorite example is the former roomate who graduated in the top of her class as an English major and only looked for jobs in the daycare industry.) These two factors combined indicates that a lot of these people don&#039;t necessarily percieve themselves as being independent adults anyways. Add in the new social phenomenon of Helicopter Parents and you see how this generation works. I&#039;d also like to go on the record saying that this apparent &#034;baby-fication&#034; of this generation is probably positive in that it indicates a strengthening of family ties and increased levels of familial social support. This leads to cultural continuity and countries with stronger family bonding typically have lower crime and suicide rates. (Suddenly, I sense that I have spun off into a tangent.)</p>
<p>I do have one question about the 58% statistic: how does that number account for students who marry immediately following graduation? This is still a common phenomenon, at least in my region, and I would expect most newlywed couples to form independent households. So, if the 58% is only single students, then probably only a third of all college graduates moves back home with their parents. But if the 58% includes marrried students, then half a generation moves back home after graduating. (I&#039;d also be interested to see the statistics on how long people are spending at home following graduation.)</p>
<p>* * * * * *<br />
<i>The average age for women to get married is 27 and men is 28. I think people who get married right out of college are relatively rare.</p>
<p>&#8211;Penelope</i></p>
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		<title>By: Joe</title>
		<link>http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/05/17/yahoo-column-the-worst-career-advice-parents-give-their-kids/#comment-73236</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 May 2007 19:25:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/05/17/yahoo-column-the-worst-career-advice-parents-give-their-kids/#comment-73236</guid>
		<description>Great article as always, good advice, and ignore all the trolls on yahoo Penelope. Speak your mind and dont let anybody tell you that you dont have enough perspective.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great article as always, good advice, and ignore all the trolls on yahoo Penelope. Speak your mind and dont let anybody tell you that you dont have enough perspective.</p>
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		<title>By: Laura Lewis</title>
		<link>http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/05/17/yahoo-column-the-worst-career-advice-parents-give-their-kids/#comment-73065</link>
		<dc:creator>Laura Lewis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 May 2007 14:54:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/05/17/yahoo-column-the-worst-career-advice-parents-give-their-kids/#comment-73065</guid>
		<description>You obviously do not have children old enough to graduate from college. As the parent of 1 graduate and 1 college junior, I can tell you that moving back in with parents is awful advice. Oh sure it may be easier for the graduate, but what about the parents. Maybe just maybe they don't want their kids moving back in. Maybe the parents are happy to have an empty nest after (for me) 37 years of parenting. Maybe just maybe the parents want their freedom back and do not want an extra person mooching off them any more......My children were all raised to be independent and 3 of them are supporting themselves, and the youngest has no intention of living at home after she graduates. Of course we help them financially when they need it, but I personally do not want any of them living at home again. 37 years of parenting is enough!!!!

* * * * * * *

&lt;I&gt;Laura. You say that you won't let your kids live at home but you'll help them financially. A lot of parents cannot afford to help their kids financially, beyond letting their kids move back home. Letting kids move back home is free, and 58% of parents are doing it. I'm sure many parents would prefer to give their kids money for their own place instead of giving them a room in the house. But most parents can't afford that.

-Penelope&lt;/I&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You obviously do not have children old enough to graduate from college. As the parent of 1 graduate and 1 college junior, I can tell you that moving back in with parents is awful advice. Oh sure it may be easier for the graduate, but what about the parents. Maybe just maybe they don&#039;t want their kids moving back in. Maybe the parents are happy to have an empty nest after (for me) 37 years of parenting. Maybe just maybe the parents want their freedom back and do not want an extra person mooching off them any more&#8230;&#8230;My children were all raised to be independent and 3 of them are supporting themselves, and the youngest has no intention of living at home after she graduates. Of course we help them financially when they need it, but I personally do not want any of them living at home again. 37 years of parenting is enough!!!!</p>
<p>* * * * * * *</p>
<p><i>Laura. You say that you won&#039;t let your kids live at home but you&#039;ll help them financially. A lot of parents cannot afford to help their kids financially, beyond letting their kids move back home. Letting kids move back home is free, and 58% of parents are doing it. I&#039;m sure many parents would prefer to give their kids money for their own place instead of giving them a room in the house. But most parents can&#039;t afford that.</p>
<p>-Penelope</i></p>
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		<title>By: Mike Ramm</title>
		<link>http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/05/17/yahoo-column-the-worst-career-advice-parents-give-their-kids/#comment-73024</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Ramm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 May 2007 13:25:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/05/17/yahoo-column-the-worst-career-advice-parents-give-their-kids/#comment-73024</guid>
		<description>Well, I generally agree with most of the points but I would like to point out that they may not be valid outside the U.S. 

For example, in Bulgaria where I live the cost of the higher education (we use the term university) is much lower than in the States which makes it worth the time and the price spent for the knowledge, the experience and the contacts you make during the study.

I cannot agree with the last point too although the arguments are reasonable. Our culture is more family-oriented and if you stay with your parents you will always be a baby for them and they won't let you grow as a person and live your own life.

It's very interesting for me why there are so many negative comments on the Yahoo site. People feel threatened by these simple advises and respond so harshly. It seems they are destroying their hopes and dreams they couldn't fulfill and have imposed on their children.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, I generally agree with most of the points but I would like to point out that they may not be valid outside the U.S. </p>
<p>For example, in Bulgaria where I live the cost of the higher education (we use the term university) is much lower than in the States which makes it worth the time and the price spent for the knowledge, the experience and the contacts you make during the study.</p>
<p>I cannot agree with the last point too although the arguments are reasonable. Our culture is more family-oriented and if you stay with your parents you will always be a baby for them and they won&#039;t let you grow as a person and live your own life.</p>
<p>It&#039;s very interesting for me why there are so many negative comments on the Yahoo site. People feel threatened by these simple advises and respond so harshly. It seems they are destroying their hopes and dreams they couldn&#039;t fulfill and have imposed on their children.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/05/17/yahoo-column-the-worst-career-advice-parents-give-their-kids/#comment-73004</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 May 2007 12:57:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/05/17/yahoo-column-the-worst-career-advice-parents-give-their-kids/#comment-73004</guid>
		<description>Alan,

Be good a good student in law school takes an entirely different skill set than actually representing clients. The practice of law values problem solving and creative solutions. It is the application of dilligence to intuition. Acquiring good grades in law school, as well as most schools, require an incredibly long attention span(the ability to spend hundreds of hours in a library reading). This skill has very little application in the real world.

For whatever reason, law firms tend to hire the law students with the best grades. This paradoxically promotes the individuals who are least prepared to deal with the issues they will face. These individuals are invariably unhappy, and with the golden handcuffs of a large salary, find it hard to leave the professional.

Steve

* * * * * *
&lt;I&gt;Thanks for this comment, Steve.  You give great, specific examples to describe the law school problem. I bet this comment will help a lot of people in their decision-making process.

 --Penelope&lt;/I&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alan,</p>
<p>Be good a good student in law school takes an entirely different skill set than actually representing clients. The practice of law values problem solving and creative solutions. It is the application of dilligence to intuition. Acquiring good grades in law school, as well as most schools, require an incredibly long attention span(the ability to spend hundreds of hours in a library reading). This skill has very little application in the real world.</p>
<p>For whatever reason, law firms tend to hire the law students with the best grades. This paradoxically promotes the individuals who are least prepared to deal with the issues they will face. These individuals are invariably unhappy, and with the golden handcuffs of a large salary, find it hard to leave the professional.</p>
<p>Steve</p>
<p>* * * * * *<br />
<i>Thanks for this comment, Steve.  You give great, specific examples to describe the law school problem. I bet this comment will help a lot of people in their decision-making process.</p>
<p> &#8211;Penelope</i></p>
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		<title>By: Alice Bachini-Smith</title>
		<link>http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/05/17/yahoo-column-the-worst-career-advice-parents-give-their-kids/#comment-72811</link>
		<dc:creator>Alice Bachini-Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 May 2007 04:43:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/05/17/yahoo-column-the-worst-career-advice-parents-give-their-kids/#comment-72811</guid>
		<description>Wow- I really love this post, and find the ideas on this blog generally to be consistently very pertinent, insightful and applicable (not to mention- free).  Maybe those who feel damaged can wander off and heal elsewhere?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow- I really love this post, and find the ideas on this blog generally to be consistently very pertinent, insightful and applicable (not to mention- free).  Maybe those who feel damaged can wander off and heal elsewhere?</p>
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		<title>By: Karen</title>
		<link>http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/05/17/yahoo-column-the-worst-career-advice-parents-give-their-kids/#comment-72790</link>
		<dc:creator>Karen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 May 2007 03:57:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/05/17/yahoo-column-the-worst-career-advice-parents-give-their-kids/#comment-72790</guid>
		<description>Penelope,

I'll try to say this nicely.  This is the biggest load of horse pucky I've ever seen.  You are not a hiring manager or a CEO.  Please stop pretending that you live in the real job world.  This stuff is so damaging to people who are really looking for a career.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Penelope,</p>
<p>I&#039;ll try to say this nicely.  This is the biggest load of horse pucky I&#039;ve ever seen.  You are not a hiring manager or a CEO.  Please stop pretending that you live in the real job world.  This stuff is so damaging to people who are really looking for a career.</p>
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		<title>By: Alan</title>
		<link>http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/05/17/yahoo-column-the-worst-career-advice-parents-give-their-kids/#comment-72789</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 May 2007 03:48:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2007/05/17/yahoo-column-the-worst-career-advice-parents-give-their-kids/#comment-72789</guid>
		<description>Steve,

Could you expand on what you wrote in the last paragraph about the best students don't make the best lawyers?  That statement counters what the blogger originally said about having the best grades from the best schools to be successful.  I do think that in any profession, the best students don't necessarily make the best workers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steve,</p>
<p>Could you expand on what you wrote in the last paragraph about the best students don&#039;t make the best lawyers?  That statement counters what the blogger originally said about having the best grades from the best schools to be successful.  I do think that in any profession, the best students don&#039;t necessarily make the best workers.</p>
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